Speaker 1: These filmmakers, the ones that really cared and were really
Speaker 1: trying to do good work. They were using sex as
Speaker 1: a way of exploring these ideas of gay liberation. We're
Speaker 1: still arguing about the merits of promiscuity versus monogamy or
Speaker 1: you know, polly relationships or you know, I only have
Speaker 1: one partner, Like, none of this stuff is new, and
Speaker 1: I think people don't realize that.
Speaker 2: It wasn't an AMC, so I unfortunately am a loser.
Speaker 2: I did not see Dune Too at AMC. I thowt
Speaker 2: at one of the you know, just one of those
Speaker 2: off label theaters, and I loved it.
Speaker 3: It was fucking amazing a theater that only serves like
Speaker 3: doctor like not fuck, what's the off brand, like mister Pib,
Speaker 3: Like like Doctor Spicey or something like that, like all
Speaker 3: those like, well, mister Pib is the off brand. But
Speaker 3: there's an even offer offer off brand of a Doctor Thunder.
Speaker 3: It's called Doctor Wait, no, I think that's the off
Speaker 3: brand Mountain too. I think my parents bought Doctor Thunder
Speaker 3: one time and I was punching holes through the wall, like, Mom,
Speaker 3: fucked up. I thought you loved me. Go back to
Speaker 3: the store now and real Mountain mob. Yeah, but yeah,
Speaker 3: you love Dune.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I fucking loved it. So I went in a
Speaker 2: whole Dune journey this weekend. I watched Obviously, I went
Speaker 2: back and rewatched the first one.
Speaker 3: You said you watched the mini series too, right.
Speaker 2: Well, I didn't watch the mini series no, but then
Speaker 2: I watched the David Lynch mm hmmm, absolutely terrible. Well,
Speaker 2: you know what, one thing I will say about the
Speaker 2: David Lunch, one thing I will say about the Dame
Speaker 2: absolutely terrible. It wasn't absolutely terrible. The visuals were actually stunning.
Speaker 2: But one thing I will say about the David Lynch
Speaker 2: is it was really really fucking good at explaining the
Speaker 2: plot to me. Because if you don't understand what the
Speaker 2: fuck is in Dune, go and watch the David Lynch one,
Speaker 2: because they are like reading it to a baby.
Speaker 3: That's one of my problems with it is that it's
Speaker 3: weird for a David Lynch movie on a lot of reasons.
Speaker 3: But yeah, one of them being that David Lynch doesn't
Speaker 3: explain things like that's like very key to like his
Speaker 3: artistic process. Yeah, but in this movie he's just explaining
Speaker 3: everything to you the whole Well, time. Have you read
Speaker 3: the book? No, I have, and I can't read. Actually,
Speaker 3: in the book, there's a lot of like each chapter
Speaker 3: will be like from like someone's like perspective, and there
Speaker 3: will be a lot of things where you like hear
Speaker 3: like what's in their head. Like there'll be like something
Speaker 3: in italics that's like and the Emperor thought that was
Speaker 3: gay and yeah. So that's why in David Lynch's doing
Speaker 3: there's so many scenes of like like it just like
Speaker 3: hearing like someone's like thoughts, you know, which is weird.
Speaker 3: It doesn't really work for me, but that's why it's there.
Speaker 3: The worst part for me was the combat. I absolutely
Speaker 3: hated those shields. Oh, I like the shield. I thought
Speaker 3: I thought his idea for the shield was kind of cool. Honestly,
Speaker 3: it was doing too much for me. I was just
Speaker 3: like it was of its era. I thought it really was.
Speaker 3: I think it's definitely overheated. I would agree with honestly
Speaker 3: a lot of the criticisms, and I would also agree
Speaker 3: that it's very will say it's outside of Lynch's wheelhouse
Speaker 3: and every way possible. I would agree it's his worst
Speaker 3: movie as well. But I don't think it's like I
Speaker 3: don't know. I don't think it's terrible, Like it's cool.
Speaker 2: It wasn't terrible, But I do agree with what you
Speaker 2: told me, and you said that it gets bad once
Speaker 2: they get to like the Fremen village.
Speaker 3: Yeah, once they get to the seat, it's like it
Speaker 3: all falls apart. It all falls apart because they're just
Speaker 3: rushing to the end at that point.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the DNI did it a much smarter way by
Speaker 3: trilogy having Yeah, well the first book is like two
Speaker 3: books technique, and yeah, it ends more or less where
Speaker 3: the first movie ends and ends more or less where
Speaker 3: the second movie ends too, And also same with these
Speaker 3: two new movies. The book. The second part of both
Speaker 3: of them really feels like or the first part really
Speaker 3: feels like just like a long exposition dump to get
Speaker 3: to the second part, where the second part just has
Speaker 3: all these payoffs, like like that's when you actually get
Speaker 3: to like ride the worms and see like fight and
Speaker 3: like cool shit like that.
Speaker 2: It was so Yeah, I just want to know how
Speaker 2: they got off the worms. I just wish that they
Speaker 2: would have shown that, because are they tucking and rolling?
Speaker 2: Is that what's going on?
Speaker 3: They're just like they've had its head they're like, oh,
Speaker 3: I don't I don't know. Actually I don't remember if
Speaker 3: they explain that. I think they do. I think they
Speaker 3: like slide down it somehow okay with the hooks or something. Well,
Speaker 3: I went down another rabbit hole this morning. In the way,
Speaker 3: I wanted to ask you one more thing about it.
Speaker 3: What did you think of Austin Butler? Which one is
Speaker 3: that guy? He's the freak ass the freak ass Billy
Speaker 3: Corgan from a Tool music video that is so funny.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that is the fun Yes, do you
Speaker 3: not know who that is? Yeah, well you look up
Speaker 3: a picture of him. Let me see right now. He's
Speaker 3: one of the hottest men that I've ever seen in
Speaker 3: my life.
Speaker 2: I mean I thought he was hot looking like a
Speaker 2: freak he played Elvis. Oh wow, he's super hot. Yeah.
Speaker 3: He's a very funny person too, because he's very weird,
Speaker 3: like he's he's really weird in interviews. He's really like,
Speaker 3: I don't know, he's just a very like truly like
Speaker 3: weird little guy. But he's like beautiful in every single way. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't know. I thought his role in it was
Speaker 3: so fun like him, he was so I loved.
Speaker 2: The kiss the kiss between him and where they where
Speaker 2: he kissed him and I was like, oh, that was
Speaker 2: kind of gay, and then like he kissed him back,
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, that's a realer guy.
Speaker 3: No, I'm kidding. Well, you know this is interesting because
Speaker 3: a long time ago we were talking to some trans girl.
Speaker 3: I don't remember who it was, but she was asking us.
Speaker 3: She was saying like, yeah, I love sci fi and
Speaker 3: I think Sam was like a dueler Dune because Sam's
Speaker 3: like an obsessed with Dune. And she was like, no, yeah,
Speaker 3: She was like what's that? And I was like, how
Speaker 3: do you not know what you just said? You're obsessed
Speaker 3: with sci fi? Like how do you not like, how
Speaker 3: have you never heard of Dune? That's crazy? But she
Speaker 3: was like is it queer? I was like, it's and
Speaker 3: I definitely has some like gender stuff.
Speaker 4: Eda.
Speaker 3: I mean, but if you need the media, you consume
Speaker 3: to be queer, like kill me? No, I agree, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean. But I do think that's an
Speaker 3: interesting question because part was Paul. But Paul is like
Speaker 3: non binary code very because.
Speaker 2: Oh, and isn't his dad like a eunuch in the book?
Speaker 2: Where am I making that up? Okaysky made that up.
Speaker 2: I want to talk about Hodorowsky in a second.
Speaker 3: Oh, I haven't watched that Hoskis too well, his dad
Speaker 3: has a penis. Oh, okay, okay, No, there's a documentary
Speaker 3: called Hodowski's Do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I watched it this morning. I want to talk
Speaker 2: about it. So I at five o'clock in the morning,
Speaker 2: when my dog was shitting blood out of his bee
Speaker 2: hole and throwing up on my linen duvet cover, I
Speaker 2: got up and I started watching Howderoski's Dune and it
Speaker 2: blew my fucking socks off. Okay, this movie, the fact
Speaker 2: that it was never made is so infuriating, and it
Speaker 2: really just comes down to the fact that, like Hollywood
Speaker 2: didn't trust Howtorowski to direct this huge movie. They gave
Speaker 2: it to David Lynch later on. But the crazy thing
Speaker 2: was is that he put together this entire team of
Speaker 2: like artists and producers and and people that later went
Speaker 2: on to these other productions like Alien and fucking Dune,
Speaker 2: David Lynch's Dune and made it what it is. And
Speaker 2: the thing that I wanted to talk about the most
Speaker 2: that really blew my mind was do you know who
Speaker 2: the Emperor and the Princess were supposed to be in
Speaker 2: Holderowski's Dune.
Speaker 3: Oh take a guess, crazy Spanish speaking crazy person. Fuck uh,
Speaker 3: Javier Malay and Penelope Cruise. No, you have to think
Speaker 3: of the era of the era. I don't know Gloria
Speaker 3: Estefan and.
Speaker 2: I don't know is going to be played by Salvador
Speaker 2: Deli and the Princess was going to be played by Amandlayer.
Speaker 2: And if you know anything about me.
Speaker 3: You know that I'm waiting the trans woman.
Speaker 2: Well, Janie, that's controversial, okay, because she, yes, is probably
Speaker 2: definitely most likely a trans woman. She's never officially.
Speaker 3: Yeah, people say that about me too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she never officially come out, but so for all
Speaker 2: we know, she's a sis woman.
Speaker 4: Bad.
Speaker 2: She was in the documentary. She like she like spoke
Speaker 2: in the documentary. She was interviewed. It's really good. You
Speaker 2: should watch it.
Speaker 3: I don't really like Kodowski.
Speaker 2: It's oh my god, I actually thought we were gonna
Speaker 2: I it's not I actually likes I have a complex
Speaker 2: feelings because I enjoy The Holy Mountain. I think it
Speaker 2: has a lot of cool visuals in it, but it's
Speaker 2: I rarely say this about movies because I generally like
Speaker 2: stuff like this, but it is very like I hate
Speaker 2: using this word, but it's like it's very weird for
Speaker 2: the sake of being weird, and it has a lot
Speaker 2: of stuff in it that I just know is like
Speaker 2: just there to be like weird.
Speaker 3: And make you feel uncomfortably. Yeah. That being said, I
Speaker 3: think there's a lot of cool shit in it that
Speaker 3: I do like, but I just think he's up his
Speaker 3: ass a little bit. And I also don't like that
Speaker 3: he filmed a little literal like rape, like an actual
Speaker 3: rape in one of his movies. I think, Yeah, in
Speaker 3: the movie El Topo, there's a rape scene and they
Speaker 3: like didn't like tell the actress like what they were
Speaker 3: about to do.
Speaker 4: End.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really gross. It's really fucked up. So thank
Speaker 3: you for educating me on. Yeah, I don't like him
Speaker 3: for that. I think that's really bad, the same reason
Speaker 3: I don't like Bertuluci. I think I think it's gross, but.
Speaker 2: Actually explains a lot about he actually in the documentary
Speaker 2: because he's still alive and he's interviewed in the documentary.
Speaker 3: He's made some he's made a few movies in like
Speaker 3: The Two Thousand Tons.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I will I will say he's not my favorite
Speaker 2: Spanish speaking director. That would go to the one who
Speaker 2: uses red and everything. What's his fucking looking?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I'd tie me up, tie me down
Speaker 3: and volvert that guy Pedrama Dovar. Yes, and he's got
Speaker 3: that new movie with We talked about the skin I
Speaker 3: live in with Hassa. I think, yeah, okay, anyway, or no,
Speaker 3: we talk about it with Liz, I think yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, you know what, this has been a fun little
Speaker 2: ramble down dune, dune corner. We had a duney corner,
Speaker 2: dune lane. Should we talk about about what we're getting
Speaker 2: into today and who are guests is? Since we just
Speaker 2: mentioned her, yes, I would love to. Liz Prischelle is
Speaker 2: a queer film historian, film preservationist and you'll probably hear
Speaker 2: me say a lot of this again in like a second,
Speaker 2: but she's awesome. She was someone I followed on letterbox
Speaker 2: for a long time. I really wanted to have her
Speaker 2: on because we love movies here and this is a
Speaker 2: very very heavy movie centric episode with a very very
Speaker 2: knowledgeable guest. So I I highly recommend any any movie
Speaker 2: heads that like.
Speaker 3: Listening to us. I think this is going to be
Speaker 3: a treat for you. She's going to give you a
Speaker 3: lot of good education, a lot of very good recommendations.
Speaker 3: And this is a really fun one. Hell yeah.
Speaker 2: Finally, it's the episode we've been leading up to. It's
Speaker 2: our Letterboxed episode, the big gay Letterboxed episode. So Michael
Speaker 2: becoming letterbox Users. Okay, that's the title of the episode
Speaker 2: right there. Well, everybody, enjoy our conversation with Liz Perschelle. Well,
Speaker 2: we're very excited about our guest today. Please welcome to
Speaker 2: the pod.
Speaker 3: Everyone.
Speaker 2: We have Brooklyn based queer film historian, programmer, filmmaker, and
Speaker 2: creator of Ask Anybody. Her name is Liz Perschelle.
Speaker 3: Hi, Liz, how are you doing good?
Speaker 1: How are y'all?
Speaker 3: I'm good. You're like the fifth person from Brooklyn we've
Speaker 3: then this is just interviewing people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, now, this is just the Atlanta Interviews Brooklyn podcast
Speaker 2: quite literally.
Speaker 1: I mean I was thinking going into this, I I
Speaker 1: think it's funny to be on a podcast about transness
Speaker 1: in the South, given that I just moved to New
Speaker 1: York two months ago, you know where, from Austin, Texas,
Speaker 1: and I'm from Campil, Florida.
Speaker 3: So you've got you're a person of Southern experience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had shared trauma.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I mean in like the show description it
Speaker 3: says that, like you know all that, but since I
Speaker 3: joined the show, we've really like derailed what this show's
Speaker 3: supposed to be of. I single handedly of derailed like
Speaker 3: all the like seriousness of what this show is supposed
Speaker 3: to be about. So all her Twitter shooters, now, yeah,
Speaker 3: it is just me interviewing my Twitter followers. But yeah,
Speaker 3: so it's it's not really like I mean, me and
Speaker 3: Carmen do like to talk about like local stuff and
Speaker 3: like I don't know that that kind of but I
Speaker 3: feel like at this point like we've covered it, like
Speaker 3: we I feel like there's not too much to say
Speaker 3: about like harrowing religious trauma of like living in the
Speaker 3: South and stuff like it's like we get it, you
Speaker 3: get it. I need to beat you over the head
Speaker 3: with uh.
Speaker 1: That's the stuff that gets the grants and the sponsorships.
Speaker 3: True. Actually, actually, can you cut that out and replace
Speaker 3: it with me.
Speaker 2: Saying please, Atlanta is so bad. All these non binary
Speaker 2: baristas are so mean to me and.
Speaker 3: Made no one, no one has any rights, help us, No,
Speaker 3: I got too many rights anyway, Hylas, how are you doing?
Speaker 3: How are you doing. That's good. Good. Well, I've been
Speaker 3: following your letterbox like almost like since I started my own.
Speaker 3: You actually put me onto a movie that I really
Speaker 3: loved that I know you're a big fan of called
Speaker 3: Lady Terminator. And yeah, I don't know. I just I
Speaker 3: wanted to talk to you about like movies, tran stuff.
Speaker 3: I don't know, we keep it kind of loose around here.
Speaker 3: Do you want to maybe introduce our audience to what
Speaker 3: you do?
Speaker 1: Sure, I do a lot of different things. My day
Speaker 1: job is I work at the American Genre Film Archive,
Speaker 1: which in and of itself does a lot of things.
Speaker 1: We have a physical film archive collection of about three thousand,
Speaker 1: thirty five milimeter film prints. We restore films, We release
Speaker 1: films on home video on Blu Ray, and we also
Speaker 1: distribute films that we own and also that other home
Speaker 1: video labels have the rights for. So if you go
Speaker 1: to see say Donnie Darko and a movie theater that
Speaker 1: comes from us, if you go to see just about
Speaker 1: any old horror movie in a theater, you'd probably.
Speaker 3: Even the plaza. Yeah, I was gonna ask have you
Speaker 3: been to Atlanta before? I have?
Speaker 1: I mean, growing up in Tampa, I was in Tampa
Speaker 1: and to I was I think like twenty six.
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: I'd always I know I'm saying, I always have to
Speaker 1: either go to Orlando or drive all the way up
Speaker 1: to Atlanta to like to shows or movies or not
Speaker 1: even a Savannah. I've never been to Savannah.
Speaker 3: Now really for the first time. I love Savannah. It's
Speaker 3: exactly like the way the movie May December like portrays it.
Speaker 3: Like everyone is very everyone in Savannah is very weird.
Speaker 3: Like it's a very weird place. But it's it's cool,
Speaker 3: it's it's it's a little clear too. It is there's
Speaker 3: a lot of like gay little like uh Art Savannah
Speaker 3: College of Art and Design kids, and also night clubs
Speaker 3: and stuff like that too. But yeah, we don't need
Speaker 3: to talk about Yeah no, I just asked that because
Speaker 3: in Atlanta we have the Plaza Theater, which is where
Speaker 3: I'll go to a lot of like featured in Doctor Sleep, Yeah,
Speaker 3: featured in the film Doctor Sleep, where there's a lot
Speaker 3: of I don't know. They do a lot of very
Speaker 3: like cool like showings and stuff and like restorations, and
Speaker 3: they play a lot of cool like thirty five millimeter
Speaker 3: prints of stuff.
Speaker 2: They played Dracula last year visit. I was fucking what's
Speaker 2: not brom Stoker, Francis Ford Copola. Francis Ford showed up too, Yeah,
Speaker 2: brom the Stoker showed up.
Speaker 3: Francis Bord Coppola is kind of doing that thing that
Speaker 3: like Kanye did where he like it's just like taking
Speaker 3: up a residency like in Atlanta, like filming his new movie. Literally, No,
Speaker 3: I actually I actually know someone who's like working on
Speaker 3: that movie. And uh, they said there was someone that
Speaker 3: like got like hit by like a car or something,
Speaker 3: and like they filming in Georgia.
Speaker 2: I don't know, they like really like fucted her over,
Speaker 2: like really badly.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know enough about it to
Speaker 3: like go on like a full tangent about it. But
Speaker 3: did he shot?
Speaker 2: You're saying, fran you wait, hold on, what's that you said?
Speaker 2: Francis Ford Coppola shot somebody?
Speaker 1: She was driving the car.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, they're making a movie about Caitlyn Jenner. They're
Speaker 3: making speed Racer with Caitlyn Jenner. I'll get you there
Speaker 3: in a jiffy, kid. Yeah, herb be fully loaded. Oh
Speaker 3: my god, Kaitlyn Jenner just derailed.
Speaker 1: I mean if you want to see the best Kaitlyn
Speaker 1: Jenner thing. I would just say, watch Can't Stop the Music,
Speaker 1: which is the Village People biopic, which trandition. She is
Speaker 1: the co star, she is the male. She is the
Speaker 1: male like romantic like lead of the movie. She's the
Speaker 1: Village People's lawyer.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that is so fucking cool. Watch that.
Speaker 3: Thank yeah, I do have to watch this. Thank you
Speaker 3: for putting us onto this awesome. We talked about we
Speaker 3: bring up Caitlyn a lot on the show. I think
Speaker 3: I think every trans podcaster just always has Caitlyn on
Speaker 3: the brain.
Speaker 1: I just want to say about Can't Step the Music.
Speaker 1: I mean, you think of the Village People, they're gay icons.
Speaker 1: What is the Village People movie is gonna be like,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be them hanging out. It's gonna be fun. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's actually about the straight people who created the Village People.
Speaker 3: So it's kind of like the Bohemian Rhapsody movie.
Speaker 1: It very much is, yeah, because the guy who produced
Speaker 1: it was like, I'm gay, but we cannot make a
Speaker 1: twenty million dollar gay movie. So we have to make
Speaker 1: to sell the Village People just like straight America. So
Speaker 1: we have to turn them into like friends to children.
Speaker 1: So they try to so that that movie. They're trying
Speaker 1: to like present the village people in the most like
Speaker 1: hetero way they can. They try to make them straight.
Speaker 2: They all have girlfriends, the leather daddy, yeah yeah, but
Speaker 2: they all have such straight jobs firemen like cop.
Speaker 1: So the first half of the movie it's them trying
Speaker 1: so hard to be straight. And then when the village
Speaker 1: people all get in the same room together and they
Speaker 1: are finally the village people, it just becomes the gayest
Speaker 1: fucking movie ever made. The YMC A musical number will
Speaker 1: shot at a y m c A and it is
Speaker 1: this like celebration of masculinity, Like they're trying to roticize
Speaker 1: Caitlin Jenner, like doing like exercises in swimming and diving
Speaker 1: and playing basketball and short shorts.
Speaker 3: And that's so cool. Got to watch that. Yeah, we're
Speaker 3: adding that to the list.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a big day for beauty translated
Speaker 2: because we talk about movies a lot on the podcast
Speaker 2: in general. So to have somebody who's a queer film historian,
Speaker 2: big day for us, big day for us.
Speaker 3: Here, Yeah for sure. Shit, Uh, is there is there
Speaker 3: anything you guys are like working on now to like
Speaker 3: restore or anything, like I don't know, like what's what's
Speaker 3: kind of what's kind of going on in your world
Speaker 3: in the world of queer film restorations and stuff.
Speaker 1: Well, we have something that we just acquired fairly recently
Speaker 1: that I can't really talk about, but it is a
Speaker 1: very exciting trans movie from the seventies that I'm excited to.
Speaker 3: Okay, get back out one.
Speaker 1: Of course, I wish it was my reckin Ridge.
Speaker 3: But I remember a long time ago we like I
Speaker 3: mentioned something about how like I don't know, we've talked
Speaker 3: about like like like representation and movies and stuff like that,
Speaker 3: and I remember bringing up like how if you're willing
Speaker 3: to just like look a little bit, like there's so
Speaker 3: much like I don't know, there's just so many movies
Speaker 3: like from like throughout the world, Like if you're just
Speaker 3: willing to like look for it, like there's so much
Speaker 3: good stuff out there, Like there's so like I don't know,
Speaker 3: like there's probably people like like there's probably young people
Speaker 3: that like get online and talk about like I want
Speaker 3: to see like trans representation and movies and stuff, and
Speaker 3: like I get that, but it's like, how have you
Speaker 3: not like watched like Funeral Parade of Roses, you know, like, like,
Speaker 3: how have you not like heard about like in a
Speaker 3: year with thirteen moons or like like.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's a combination the things. I
Speaker 1: think part of it is just that this stuff is
Speaker 1: not readily available. When I first saw a Funeral Parade
Speaker 1: of Roses and twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, it
Speaker 1: was a very hard film to see in the US.
Speaker 1: It had never been released on home video here. It
Speaker 1: wasn't until it was restored and then like re released
Speaker 1: theatrically and then put out on Blu Ray and then
Speaker 1: on streaming that it has become this like canonical queer
Speaker 1: film for sure, even like something like Paris Is Burning.
Speaker 1: That's a film that was like on Netflix for a
Speaker 1: while when I was first coming out like as a
Speaker 1: gay guy, like a decade ago, and it was easy
Speaker 1: to see, and then it got taken off a Netflix
Speaker 1: and then DVD was out of print, so it was
Speaker 1: impossible to see that unless you had a DVD or
Speaker 1: a VHS or whatever. Yeah, So a lot of it
Speaker 1: has to do with access, And I mean, I think
Speaker 1: one of the things that drives all the work I
Speaker 1: do is that I truly think that people want to
Speaker 1: see this stuff. It's just they do help for sure
Speaker 1: finding it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And I do, like I don't want to
Speaker 3: say that, like, like I don't know, I have like
Speaker 3: mixed feelings on like the term like representation, because like
Speaker 3: I feel like it's not you know, the end all
Speaker 3: be all of like liberation, you know, like like it's
Speaker 3: not the same thing. But I do think I think
Speaker 3: we talked about this recently, how like it is like important,
Speaker 3: you know, like it is like I do think, like
Speaker 3: especially fucking Americans, like with how like much we like
Speaker 3: identify with like art and like the content we consume,
Speaker 3: Like it is like helpful in like empathizing with like
Speaker 3: experiences that you're like unfamiliar with.
Speaker 1: I think, especially with trans I think with trans people especially,
Speaker 1: I think there is a power to seeing that people
Speaker 1: like us existed seventy years ago or eighty years ago
Speaker 1: or however many years ago. Yeah, and to see and
Speaker 1: to see that, I mean, you know, I guess something
Speaker 1: that I kind of struggle with sometimes is like this
Speaker 1: idea that trans people are brand new or why why
Speaker 1: are trans people suddenly in the news when you know
Speaker 1: there were mainstream Hollywood movies about trans people from the
Speaker 1: seventies eighty yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, even before that, Like that's the movie that what's
Speaker 3: his name? Uh? G I the g I like God,
Speaker 3: the Christine Story.
Speaker 2: Yes, sorry, yes, Glenda, Yes, who was the guy he
Speaker 2: made fit planet?
Speaker 4: Edward?
Speaker 3: Yeah? God?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, hero famous crossy you know yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: One of my favorite one of my favorite things I
Speaker 1: discovered last year is I was I've spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time going through like old cross dressing and like
Speaker 1: trans magazines and newsletters and stuff like that, and like
Speaker 1: when I started getting into that a few years ago,
Speaker 1: like I always had in the back of my mind,
Speaker 1: like I wonder if I'll ever find Edwood in one
Speaker 1: of these And I finally did under his under his
Speaker 1: cross dresser named Shirley, including like a letter that he
Speaker 1: wrote to the editor talking about how he loved being
Speaker 1: a cross dresser and how he felt at ease and
Speaker 1: like all these things.
Speaker 3: That's that's iconic. Yeah, I I think like a lot
Speaker 3: of like this is something that really like bothers me
Speaker 3: a lot about, like especially a lot of like newer
Speaker 3: kind of like trans movies and stuff is like how
Speaker 3: I don't know like a lot of the times when
Speaker 3: like people like want to make a trans movie, it's
Speaker 3: like or queer movies too. We're just kind of like
Speaker 3: now getting to the point where we can just have
Speaker 3: like normal like queer relationships and shit like in movies.
Speaker 3: But I think I think trans movies, like at least
Speaker 3: in America, are still like set back a little bit
Speaker 3: because like everything is just like this like depressing, like pornographic,
Speaker 3: like trauma like movie. Like I like, I don't know,
Speaker 3: I don't want to watch boys don't cry, Like, yeah
Speaker 3: I would. I would rather watch a movie about like
Speaker 3: like this is why someone like Fastbender like means a
Speaker 3: lot to me, because all of his movies, like they're
Speaker 3: not really about like the queer experience. They're more just
Speaker 3: like queer characters that are with like melodramatic scenarios that
Speaker 3: like you could apply to pretty much anyone's life.
Speaker 1: And I one speak for yourself. My life is pornographic, depressing.
Speaker 2: And yeah that's true, true, But that's maybe why I
Speaker 2: don't want to see that I cry.
Speaker 3: Like looking in the mirror every day, Jane, what are
Speaker 3: you talking about? I just I would rather like watch
Speaker 3: I don't know, I would rather watch like like Funeral
Speaker 3: Parade of Roses is about like so much more than
Speaker 3: just like this trans woman who had a horrible life
Speaker 3: and then was beaten to death. Like I hate movies
Speaker 3: like that. Like that is just so like I don't know,
Speaker 3: like I just I never like find myself like wanting
Speaker 3: to like seek out something like that. And I feel
Speaker 3: like that is like I don't know, I feel like
Speaker 3: that's just like a very uncreative way for like filmmakers
Speaker 3: to be, Like this is how people will empathize with
Speaker 3: these people that are weird. Like it's like if they
Speaker 3: are threatened with violence, then the audience will be like,
Speaker 3: oh no, don't kill that very feminine looking man.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean I think the thing like that that
Speaker 1: like really bugs me about a lot of new trans movies.
Speaker 1: And I guess this kind of extends somewhat to like
Speaker 1: new or queer movies too, is that so many of
Speaker 1: them they're not actually about the transperson. They're about the
Speaker 1: person reacting to the trans person movie Mutt about the
Speaker 1: trans guy. And I think Brooklyn.
Speaker 3: And it's not about him.
Speaker 1: It's not about him or his transition or his you know,
Speaker 1: his life. It's about him coming in contact with his
Speaker 1: ex and his like father and like all these other people,
Speaker 1: and it's about like them struggling to reconcile with him.
Speaker 1: It's not about him, it's about them, And I hate that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, how do we feel about Monica? That's like
Speaker 2: a newer trans film that kind.
Speaker 3: Of I haven't I haven't seen it. That movie got me.
Speaker 3: I really do love to it a lot. That kind
Speaker 3: of reminds me. I liked this movie, but that was
Speaker 3: also kind of like A Fantastic Woman a little bit
Speaker 3: where like it's more. But I don't know. I liked
Speaker 3: that movie because, like I liked seeing like the way that,
Speaker 3: like as a trans person, like a lot of like
Speaker 3: normal things in life that everyone has to deal with,
Speaker 3: like can be more difficult like as a trans person,
Speaker 3: like her lover dies and then she's like has to
Speaker 3: deal with like all the kind of like bureaucratic like
Speaker 3: processes of like you know, like inheriting his will and
Speaker 3: like dealing with his family and stuff like that. And
Speaker 3: it's something I think that story is interesting because it's
Speaker 3: something that like in a straight relationship and like a normal,
Speaker 3: normal quote unquote relationship, it would be a fairly like
Speaker 3: routine kind of experience. So I guess there is stuff
Speaker 3: like that that I find, I find valuable.
Speaker 1: If you look at movies, I think your your perception
Speaker 1: of trans people is that all they do is stare
Speaker 1: in the mirror and like softly caress fabricks. Yeah it's
Speaker 1: not I have to wake up at six am to
Speaker 1: go to the DMV to try to get my license changed,
Speaker 1: or I have to do electrolysis, or I have to
Speaker 1: do laser or.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I know. I think stuff like that is
Speaker 3: pretty interesting because that is something that like, uh yeah,
Speaker 3: that like that that's a side of like the trans
Speaker 3: experience that like this people like probably wouldn't be incredibly
Speaker 3: aware of. And yeah, I don't know. I think I
Speaker 3: think it's like like I said, like it's like it's
Speaker 3: just uncreative to like paint. The trans experience has this
Speaker 3: like just really like traumatic, Like I mean, it is
Speaker 3: like traumatic in many ways, but like I feel like
Speaker 3: there's just so much more to it than just like
Speaker 3: I'm gonna get murdered for being trans. Like yeah, I mean,
Speaker 3: sure that's a thing, but like I feel like there's
Speaker 3: more we can talk about it.
Speaker 2: It's overdone. It's like there's enough there's enough film and
Speaker 2: content about that at this point. Like I think the
Speaker 2: movie like for example, Soldiers Carl is a very important movie.
Speaker 2: It is depressing, it is traumatizing, it is horrible, but
Speaker 2: I think it's a very important movie because it tells a.
Speaker 3: Real who's the guy in that he looks lee pace, Yeah,
Speaker 3: says Calipoernia Adams. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And it's just to me, like that's an important movie
Speaker 2: because it's a real story. But yeah, it's like traumatizing.
Speaker 2: But to an extent, when do we start seeing things
Speaker 2: that are more just normal and like uplifting.
Speaker 3: You see, like in the early two thousands, you could
Speaker 3: have like the L word and like queer as folk
Speaker 3: and like just stuff that's like are a normal kind
Speaker 3: of like mellow drama but with gay people. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: now it's at the point where like you can have
Speaker 3: like I mean, I can't there's so many horror movies
Speaker 3: where it's like it happens to be a gay couple
Speaker 3: and it's like it's not like really related to the plot.
Speaker 3: It's just they happen to be gay because being gay
Speaker 3: is a normal part of life, and that's kind of
Speaker 3: I don't know, that's kind of what I want to
Speaker 3: see out of like trans Like that's where like I
Speaker 3: would like to inevitably end up where we have trans
Speaker 3: characters that just are trans and it has nothing really
Speaker 3: to do with the stories, just they're trands because people
Speaker 3: in real life are trans, you know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 3: what's her name? From alien? Would like to have a word?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I guess there was that like, uh like
Speaker 2: trans mask and on Evil Dead Rise. I thought that
Speaker 2: was pretty interesting. But you'll know I'm talking about an alien, right,
Speaker 2: there's that like seeing an alien the like it's very
Speaker 2: very brief where they look at one of the women,
Speaker 2: like and it says that she's female transsexual, and like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do, I do know what you mean. Yeah,
Speaker 3: she's just never mentioned normal Normalize it, you know, right right,
Speaker 3: normalize the aliens?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, but what do we get our guest thoughts on that.
Speaker 3: Let's see what let's have to say about it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I guess of two minds about it,
Speaker 1: like one, Yes, I'd love to see it more normalized.
Speaker 1: I'd love to see more kinds of storylines and films.
Speaker 1: I would love to see more messy trans characters. Yeah, perfect,
Speaker 1: pretty little angels I'd love to see a trans woman
Speaker 1: in a movie for once. Yeah, But at the same time,
Speaker 1: I do think there is some power to seeing, you know,
Speaker 1: those kinds of basic stories on screen. You know, I've
Speaker 1: seen a lot of movies about transition. There's I Want
Speaker 1: What I Want from the early seventies. There's Cambiota Sexo,
Speaker 1: which is a Spanish movie from the late seventies. There's
Speaker 1: a TV movie called Second Serve, which is about Une Richards.
Speaker 1: Second Serve.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh I love Second Yes Serve. It's about the
Speaker 3: tennis player, tennis player.
Speaker 1: Yeah, tennis player Renee Richards played Vanessa Redgrave. So like
Speaker 1: I'm going back to like the idea that like trans
Speaker 1: people were this new thing. It's like, no, this was
Speaker 1: a TV movie from the late seventies, Like millions of
Speaker 1: people saw this. It was a normal thing.
Speaker 2: But then it's almost like it becomes both sensationalized by
Speaker 2: like current modern day media, and then it also becomes
Speaker 2: commodified in the sense of like, here's this trans character
Speaker 2: that we're selling you as like a product for you
Speaker 2: to buy. I feel like a lot of Disney and
Speaker 2: like Marvel and shit like that, Like those nods often
Speaker 2: ring hollow because it's like, Okay, you just want me
Speaker 2: to go see this fucking movie, so you put a
Speaker 2: trans character in it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that's the thing for me is I want
Speaker 1: there to be substance for the characters. I want them
Speaker 1: to have something to do and not just kind of
Speaker 1: be there.
Speaker 3: I mean, I know people that went and saw the
Speaker 3: New Hunger Games because Hunter Schaeffer wasn't and they'd never
Speaker 3: seen The Hunger Games before, and I I get it.
Speaker 3: I probably would watch it too. Yeah, but I don't know.
Speaker 3: I guess like I'm not really entirely immune to that either.
Speaker 3: I feel like we're also kind of like dancing around
Speaker 3: the whole like evil trans woman archetype, which is something
Speaker 3: that's kind of like horseshoed back to me to being
Speaker 3: really fun.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 1: I mean, that is a series that I've been trying
Speaker 1: to that I've been kind of working through mentally over
Speaker 1: the past couple of months that I want to find
Speaker 1: a venue to do sometime this year. Call it trans Panic,
Speaker 1: and it's five, six, seven, eight. Trans horror movies from
Speaker 1: the seventies, eighties, nineties, Dressed to Kill, Dressed to Kill,
Speaker 1: sleep Away Camp, Homicidal from the sixties, which I love.
Speaker 1: Look this up Fatal Games, which is about trans people
Speaker 1: in sports from the eighties at the slasher movie.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I think of anything more horrifying. Wow.
Speaker 3: And of course Dressed to Kill is like the most
Speaker 3: famous one. Of course, that's the well Psycho or Sounds
Speaker 3: of the Lambs probably, well, yeah, Psycho too. You talked
Speaker 3: about Sounds of the Lambs a long time.
Speaker 1: Well, the funny the funny thing about Sounds of the
Speaker 1: Lambs and Dressed to Kill both of them is that
Speaker 1: both of them were controversial in their first release. But
Speaker 1: the controversy wasn't about the killer trans women in them.
Speaker 1: The controversy was these movies are endorsing violence against women
Speaker 1: because because the killer trans woman in Dressed to Kill
Speaker 1: kills Angie Dickinson. Right, Yeah, that means this is a
Speaker 1: movie that is like eroticizing violence against women. Our sanso
Speaker 1: Lamb is like, this is a serial killer who is
Speaker 1: targeting women, and it is supporting violence against women. It's not,
Speaker 1: you know, it's not this is bad representation, this is
Speaker 1: you know, going to be hurting people. It's no, this
Speaker 1: is violence against women.
Speaker 3: That's interesting to me for two reasons because one, like
Speaker 3: I mean, isn't like horror as a genre like killing
Speaker 3: women is. It's bread and butter, right, we love our
Speaker 3: screen queens. And Two, like I've always I've always thought
Speaker 3: about this with the movie Cruising, like it was controversial
Speaker 3: at the time because like I mean, correct me if
Speaker 3: I'm wrong, but like it was controversial because right wing
Speaker 3: people like just didn't want a gay movie, and then
Speaker 3: like gay people were like, this is a horrible representation
Speaker 3: of our culture. And I don't know, I just feel like,
Speaker 3: at least with like Cruising, like that one's really interesting
Speaker 3: to me because I don't know, I don't feel like
Speaker 3: a movie like that would be I don't know, I
Speaker 3: don't think that would be so controversial now, like from
Speaker 3: like anyone. Really it might be.
Speaker 2: Though, because there's a lot of the gin I hit
Speaker 2: to be gen z I hate to calms, you know
Speaker 2: how they're all against people cruising and having sex in public.
Speaker 3: That's why it would be against cruising.
Speaker 1: That's two things. One, I'm still waiting for someone to
Speaker 1: make the transversion of cruising where Alpacino has to get
Speaker 1: on hormones. There's a killer trans woman who was on
Speaker 1: the street to New York targeting cisman. He likes to
Speaker 1: get on hormones and go undercover, join in with the dolls.
Speaker 1: Winds up in a teaper tea couple with the killer.
Speaker 3: Before the sergeant can even like finish describing the case,
Speaker 3: he's like, I'll get my dress.
Speaker 2: I've got him the closet already. Maybe maybe start with
Speaker 2: some surveillance or summer. He's like already putting on makeup.
Speaker 4: Like what.
Speaker 2: I'm talking. He's like looking up like voice training videos,
Speaker 2: heat from fire, fire from heats.
Speaker 3: It's like.
Speaker 1: To use.
Speaker 3: Like we caught the killer weeks ago.
Speaker 1: It's like, I will give that movie to someone to make.
Speaker 1: Please make that movie. I think that movie would be incredible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that movie sounds fucking awesome. I would love that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, this is something that I was researching pretty heavily.
Speaker 1: Last year. I did this series at the Almo in
Speaker 1: Austin called Village of the Damned. The album a draft
Speaker 1: house and it was called it's Village of the Damned.
Speaker 1: And it's to bring all this full circle. It's the
Speaker 1: four New York queer movies from nineteen eighty. There's Can't
Speaker 1: Stop the Music, which is a village people movie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's Dressed to Kill, which is a killer trans woman movie.
Speaker 1: There's Cruising, which is the killer gay movie. And there's Windows,
Speaker 1: which is a movie about this insane lesbian who has
Speaker 1: her best friend raped so that she try to get
Speaker 1: her best friend of fall in love with her.
Speaker 2: Oh my forever. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the same year you have a killer gay movie,
Speaker 1: a killer lesbian movie, killer trans movie, and the greatest
Speaker 1: queer horror film of them all, the Village People straight Wow.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting that, like all those movies were controversial
Speaker 1: in different ways. Gay people hated Can't Stop the Music
Speaker 1: because they thought it was trying to straight.
Speaker 3: Wash the Village People, which it was. It was absolutely.
Speaker 1: Uh. Lesbian hated Windows because it was a movie about
Speaker 1: insane lesbian who is, you know, paying someone to rape
Speaker 1: her friend so that she can get her in her arms.
Speaker 1: Gay people hated Cruising for a couple of different reasons.
Speaker 1: Like I think a lot of younger people look back
Speaker 1: at the protests for Cruising and they're like, oh, they're
Speaker 1: so wrong, their sex negative or whatever it was. It
Speaker 1: was a couple of things. There were there were gay
Speaker 1: serial killers targeting gay men in New York at the time.
Speaker 3: The Highway right, Like.
Speaker 1: There's the freeway Killers. There's a Doodler in San Francisco.
Speaker 1: There's a couple of different gay serial killers.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, and the Doodler.
Speaker 1: The Doodler. This guy is called the Doodler because in
Speaker 1: San Francisco he would be hanging out at gay bars
Speaker 1: and he would offer to like draw a portrait, like
Speaker 1: let me let me draw you. I think you're handsome looking,
Speaker 1: let me draw you. Here's the sketch. Now let's go
Speaker 1: over to the beach or whatever.
Speaker 3: And then I mean it's just most serial killers get
Speaker 3: a name, like the Ripper, the.
Speaker 2: Freeway Killer, the Doodler, sights than like the dude. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's all of these came out in nineteen eighty.
Speaker 1: They all came out in nineteen eighty, which is insane.
Speaker 3: That's interesting.
Speaker 1: But I think to an extent, the gay community had
Speaker 1: a point with the cruising stuff because this was coming
Speaker 1: right after Anita Bryant, this was coming right after the
Speaker 1: murder of Harvey Milk. Gay people were increasingly becoming the
Speaker 1: targets of gay bashing, and to have this movie which
Speaker 1: they thought would portray them in a bad light. And
Speaker 1: I should say I've seen like an early draft of
Speaker 1: the screenplay for Cruising, and it's so much worse. Like, really,
Speaker 1: the protests made it a better movie because they had
Speaker 1: to go back and rewrite some of this stuff, and
Speaker 1: it made it a much better movie.
Speaker 3: I've seen Cruising a lot. They actually played it at
Speaker 3: Plaza like a few years ago, and I like dressed
Speaker 3: up in like leather year like to go watch it.
Speaker 3: And I remember they like did like a thing at
Speaker 3: the beginning, and the girl was like, who here has
Speaker 3: seen this movie before? I was like the only one
Speaker 3: that raised my hand like in like a leather like suit.
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, this was a bit unnecessary. I'm kind
Speaker 3: of unnecessarily sticking out here, but everyone else is in
Speaker 3: there at leisure.
Speaker 2: Like.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I showed it a few years ago in Austin and
Speaker 1: it was the only time I've ever seen someone in
Speaker 1: a leather jock strap at a movie theater.
Speaker 2: Oh yow, yes, we would get along, hold on the
Speaker 2: fucking seat.
Speaker 3: Just yeah. More thinking about Cruising real quick, like every
Speaker 3: time I've watched that movie, Like, I mean, I didn't
Speaker 3: know that about like the like rewrites and stuff, because
Speaker 3: like it always strikes me that that's like one of
Speaker 3: the most anti cop movies like I've ever seen like.
Speaker 1: It people didn't care at the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like it is a seriously like uh, I
Speaker 3: don't know, it's such an indictment of the police force
Speaker 3: and like the way that they will like use like
Speaker 3: minorities and just like step on them and I don't know,
Speaker 3: I just I I find that interesting because like I
Speaker 3: didn't know that about like the rewrites and stuff, but
Speaker 3: like it always like struck out to me, like how
Speaker 3: are people like protesting this? This is so just like
Speaker 3: I don't know, this is like my thoughts on the
Speaker 3: police force, like horrible, Like yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: If you want to see the bad version of Cruising,
Speaker 1: it's this movie I showed a few weeks ago in
Speaker 1: New York called Partners from nineteen eighty two, and it's
Speaker 1: the creators of Lakaje All Fall, which was remade in
Speaker 1: the US. It's the bird Cage. It's the creators of
Speaker 1: that saying what if? What if Cruising was a comedy?
Speaker 1: It's about this. It's about this like macho straight cop
Speaker 1: who has to be with night Rhin O'Neil as the
Speaker 1: like macho straight cop who's partnered with John Hurt, who
Speaker 1: is like this mousey, asexual gay cop and as a couple,
Speaker 1: and it's.
Speaker 3: It's it's it's a rush hour, but with a straight
Speaker 3: guy and a gay guy. I love that.
Speaker 2: I think I might have seen I feel like I've
Speaker 2: seen clips from this or something.
Speaker 1: I would recommend anyone listening to this watched the trailer
Speaker 1: because I think the trailer is like a perfect, like
Speaker 1: horrible piece of art because it's like three minutes long.
Speaker 1: It's three minutes long. It opens with a card saying
Speaker 1: this trailer has been a proof for all audiences, and
Speaker 1: then within thirty seconds, Ryan O'Neill is calling someone a faggot.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Ryan O'Neill is very hot too.
Speaker 1: He just looks uncomfortable and miserable the entire movie, And
Speaker 1: that's why we showed it a few weeks ago. It
Speaker 1: was like my edge, lordy, like Ryan O'Neill memorial screening
Speaker 1: to mourn his death.
Speaker 3: He died recently. I didn't even know that. Oh I
Speaker 3: love Paperman. That's like, yeah, amazing movie.
Speaker 1: He was a great actor, a beautiful man, a terrible person. Okay,
Speaker 1: so that's why we celebrated with partners. Yeah, more or
Speaker 1: more and him with partners.
Speaker 3: M huh, something you'd probably rather erase from his CEO.
Speaker 2: Well, something I was going to ask you too, was
Speaker 2: I mean, well, just I guess you were kind of
Speaker 2: well we've moved past it already, but I was just
Speaker 2: going to talk about how, like the whole gay liberation
Speaker 2: movement pretty much depended on, or at the time, depended
Speaker 2: on like gay people appearing as like normal and like
Speaker 2: cis hetero normative as possible. So yeah, I can totally
Speaker 2: see why people were like up in arms about cruising
Speaker 2: and like you said, I need a Bryant. That's why
Speaker 2: cruising is cool. Yeah, Like I don't know, it's like
Speaker 2: it's like edgy. Like now I'm confused though, how did
Speaker 2: it get an edit?
Speaker 3: Before?
Speaker 2: So people were aware of this film being made and
Speaker 2: they demanded like so this is like pre social media.
Speaker 2: That's where I'm thinking, like movies like Sonic and Shit
Speaker 2: Today can get remade. I'm interested to know more about
Speaker 2: that story, Like what do you know about that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, there is a man named Arthur Bell who was
Speaker 1: a journalist at the Village Voice, and he was the
Speaker 1: one who was basically leading the protests for this and
Speaker 1: someone leaked him an early draft of the script, and
Speaker 1: he read it and like went to the Village Voice,
Speaker 1: into the Advocate and all these other publications and like
Speaker 1: wrote these pieces saying like, I have read this early
Speaker 1: draft of the script, this is going to be the
Speaker 1: most homophobic movie ever made.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: And he had a point.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the most homophobic movie ever made. I
Speaker 3: feel like that's going to be a hard feat to accomplish. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's a big shoot a film.
Speaker 1: I will I will say, Carmen, going off with what
Speaker 1: you're saying. Something I love about gay liberation stuff from
Speaker 1: the seventies is that they were so desperate to show
Speaker 1: that being gay was like a natural, normal thing that
Speaker 1: if you watch a lot of gay documentaries from the seventies,
Speaker 1: they will interview people like out in nature to be like, no,
Speaker 1: this is this is natural. This person is like sitting
Speaker 1: by a lake, they're in a park like this, this
Speaker 1: is normal and natural.
Speaker 2: And that trickled down to plant in Today. We have
Speaker 2: plant gays and fucking hiking gays and it's okay, you
Speaker 2: can just be in the house gay, okay. Ari I
Speaker 2: co op Yeah, the ARII co op gaze. You know, Wow,
Speaker 2: that is funny. And that's like a little bit of
Speaker 2: like subliminal messaging in a production there for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's this really great documentary from nineteen seventy seven
Speaker 1: called Word is Out, and the whole the whole thing
Speaker 1: with that movie is that they interviewed twenty six gay
Speaker 1: men and lesbians and it's just bysically them talking for
Speaker 1: two and a half hours telling you their stories. And
Speaker 1: in the woods there's there is one person who's like
Speaker 1: interviewed by a lake. There's someone else who's like in
Speaker 1: a park. There's all these people and like some of
Speaker 1: them are indoors and some of them are outdoors, and
Speaker 1: they're trying to show that like this is a natural,
Speaker 1: normal thing.
Speaker 3: That's so cool.
Speaker 2: That's you know how they should say, you know how
Speaker 2: they should interview us. I should put us in like
Speaker 2: a test tube and like a lab and like I
Speaker 2: like have like twenty six trans women and has been
Speaker 2: interviewed and like the most like clinical looking we could
Speaker 2: be like we're not natural, we're.
Speaker 3: Free, yeah, or or they make it like look like
Speaker 3: it's just like a normal like house or something, and
Speaker 3: then at the end it like pulls out and you
Speaker 3: see like we're in like this like an invader type
Speaker 3: of thing. It pulls behind you can see like and
Speaker 3: the transsexuals were safely behind this one way mirror being
Speaker 3: interviewed through the power of technology. None of the straight
Speaker 3: people had to be around them. I mean the.
Speaker 1: Version of that is like when you see like trans
Speaker 1: girls on Twitter whose rooms are just like fucking filthy.
Speaker 1: I'm just imagined. Yeah. The positive representation is to have
Speaker 1: like a nice clean room.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean my room's not looking too good.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: You didn't turn on the sign either, I didn't. I fuck,
Speaker 3: You're right for the listeners, I normally do have a
Speaker 3: little neon bar sign behind me, and that's how she
Speaker 3: signifies that she is on air. Yeah, that's that's how
Speaker 3: my that's how you know my brain isn't working to
Speaker 3: that she's not locked in the bar sign is not
Speaker 3: turned on. Liz, have you seen the movie What Gender
Speaker 3: Am I? From like nineteen eighty or something like that.
Speaker 3: This sounds good.
Speaker 1: It's like the documentary Sea.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh yes, What Sex Am I? Yeah? I remember
Speaker 3: I watched that on Criterion Channel a long time ago,
Speaker 3: and I thought it was pretty good. But like there's
Speaker 3: one story in that that has like always like stuck
Speaker 3: out to me where this one they're like talking to
Speaker 3: this one guy, and he's like telling a story about
Speaker 3: how like uh yeah, like my my whole life, I
Speaker 3: was like cross dressing and I thought I was like
Speaker 3: trans and blah blah blah, and then I went to
Speaker 3: like he describes like all these like hurdles he went
Speaker 3: through to get like signed up for like sexual reassignment surgery,
Speaker 3: and he says like and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: when they about to put me under, I was like, no,
Speaker 3: this isn't right. I'm a man, you can't do this
Speaker 3: to me.
Speaker 2: And then it was too late, and I felt the
Speaker 2: gas and I woke up and I didn't have a
Speaker 2: penis anymore, and now I just have to live like this.
Speaker 3: I was like, what the fuck, Like, I mean, it's
Speaker 3: like it's hard for me to like have sympathy because
Speaker 3: you went through a lot to get to this point,
Speaker 3: Like at any point you could have stopped, like, at
Speaker 3: any point you could have thought about this a little
Speaker 3: bit more until you're going on anesthesia.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was the first turf detrans person.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, he was in the New York Times. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like the first one of those like like British women.
Speaker 3: That's like, like it says like I was coerced my
Speaker 3: whole life getting my breasts removed, Like what are you
Speaker 3: talking about? Like, I don't know, like that that's just
Speaker 3: I Also, I always like you can also kind of
Speaker 3: understand the visceral horror, like waking up and being like, no, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: that movie's cool. Well I have news for your sex
Speaker 3: change is actually scheduled for this evening.
Speaker 1: Whether you like it or.
Speaker 3: Not, okay, depend depending on the day of the week.
Speaker 3: I'll probably be like.
Speaker 1: All right, I mean that's all. Motivar is the skin
Speaker 1: I live in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I know. Do you like that movie?
Speaker 1: The first time I saw it, I was like very
Speaker 1: really into transition, and I went to see the local
Speaker 1: theater and someone was like laughing through the whole thing,
Speaker 1: and it made me feel really uncomfortable. Yeah, And then
Speaker 1: like a few months later I found out it was
Speaker 1: a transcirl who was laughing, so like I was.
Speaker 3: Like, okay, I I thought that movie was pretty funny
Speaker 3: and kind of stupid. Honestly, Like I had a lot
Speaker 3: of like straight friends recommend it to me just because
Speaker 3: they know I like movies. Well, yeah, they're like this
Speaker 3: you should watch. This is great. It's really really good.
Speaker 3: And then I don't know, Like I remember they were saying,
Speaker 3: like it's like a really fucked up movie. And then
Speaker 3: when I realized it's basically like it's basically like a
Speaker 3: mad scientist movie, but like his mad scientist scheme is
Speaker 3: to uh force feminize someone. I'm like, that's really funny,
Speaker 3: Like I can't really take that too seriously.
Speaker 1: Can I recommend another movie? Yeah, a film from the
Speaker 1: late sixties by the director of a Christmas Story, and
Speaker 1: it's called Bob Clark, right, Bob Clark. It's called she Man,
Speaker 1: A Story of Fixation, and it's a black and white
Speaker 1: forced them basically like erotic softcore film.
Speaker 3: Whoa, this looks hot? Yeah, it's from this Oh this
Speaker 3: looks cool, dude, Bob Clark was a freak. What was
Speaker 3: that guy's do? Yeah, he loved Christmas. He made like
Speaker 3: five movies about Christmas.
Speaker 1: He made genius movies.
Speaker 3: He made baby geniuses. Yeah, Like Porky's is one of
Speaker 3: like the worst movies I've ever seen. Like that that
Speaker 3: is easily like a contender for like like when people
Speaker 3: ask me, like, what's the worst movie I've ever seen?
Speaker 3: That's always one that pops into my brain.
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you about. Well, this is just
Speaker 2: a movie I personally love, but have you ever seen
Speaker 2: Southern Comfort?
Speaker 1: Wait?
Speaker 3: What is it called? Yeah, Southern Comfort?
Speaker 1: Yeah, not the water able movie.
Speaker 3: The documentary, a documentary. It's a really great documentary. I
Speaker 3: love it.
Speaker 2: And that's one that I would love to see back
Speaker 2: in circulation and the in the theater.
Speaker 3: But that's neither here nor there. What is that? It's
Speaker 3: a great about bottom surgery getting comfort and you're no,
Speaker 3: it's a traumatizing, sad It's a very documentary.
Speaker 1: It's about this trans man from the South who was
Speaker 1: dying Georgia.
Speaker 3: Actually, oh gosh, that's awful.
Speaker 1: And no one would give him a hysterectomy to save
Speaker 1: his life. Basically, no one would treat him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like he called over twenty something doctors in
Speaker 2: the state. Every one of them turned down because they
Speaker 2: didn't want to work. They don't either want a trans
Speaker 2: man in their office or they didn't want to be
Speaker 2: associated at all. It's like, cool, Well that is terrifying
Speaker 2: and depressing. But I think that that kind of falls
Speaker 2: into like I don't know what, like we're saying earlier
Speaker 2: about how like some of these stories like are important
Speaker 2: even if they're I don't know, like like it's on YouTube.
Speaker 2: I don't like watching a lot of like trends like
Speaker 2: trauma porn. But I guess I can like see like
Speaker 2: it's actually really cute too, because they actually portray a
Speaker 2: lot of tea for tea couples from the nineties, not
Speaker 2: portray what am I talking about. They it's a documentary.
Speaker 2: They show a lot of tea for tea couples from
Speaker 2: the nineties and just like that happening here in Atlanta
Speaker 2: at the time was really cool. There's a scene where
Speaker 2: they go driving to the Southern Comfort conference in Buckhead
Speaker 2: and they drive down onto a past like the fucking
Speaker 2: Linux mall. That's kind of funny.
Speaker 3: That's cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's kind of It's an incredible film. It's
Speaker 1: very sad, of course, but I think things are things
Speaker 1: like that are okay because they just make you angry
Speaker 1: and they want you to they want they make you
Speaker 1: want things to change, and I think that's powerful. Another
Speaker 1: thing I would recommend is a documentary called Transsexual Menace
Speaker 1: by one of my favorite filmmakers.
Speaker 3: About the group.
Speaker 1: Right so it's technically about the group, but it's basically
Speaker 1: using the group as like a jumping off point to
Speaker 1: explore you know, transnis in America in the nineties basically,
Speaker 1: and a couple of the people from Southern Comfort are
Speaker 1: in Transsexual Menace. And there's there's a section at the
Speaker 1: beginning of the film which is basically about the Southern
Speaker 1: Comfort Conference.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, which was I mean, I've had this on
Speaker 3: my watch was for like a long in the movie.
Speaker 2: That's hilarious. What nineties fucking trans movie? Was RuPaul not
Speaker 2: yeah for real?
Speaker 3: Forcing her way into have you seen Dressed in Blue? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Dressed in Blue is awesome? Went to it. Yeah, we
Speaker 3: went to a showing of it. There was a wasp
Speaker 3: in the theater.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it was I was so scared the
Speaker 2: whole time. I was terrible. It was scarier than what
Speaker 2: was on the screen.
Speaker 3: My god.
Speaker 2: Okay, I did have to look away during the breast
Speaker 2: and plant scene because I was not Oh yeah.
Speaker 3: They got in there. They got in there for real.
Speaker 2: I was not ready for a full on surgery, like
Speaker 2: just out just like a surgery shot.
Speaker 3: There's also I've mentioned this this movie on the show
Speaker 3: a lot because a lot of it's in Atlanta, but
Speaker 3: Cocomo City is kind of a I don't know, it's
Speaker 3: kind of an interesting kind of like sister movie to
Speaker 3: to Dressed in Blue, because it's like they're both kind
Speaker 3: of like trans hangout document memories, you know, like they're
Speaker 3: very like and I think I like that a lot
Speaker 3: more like I feel like it's less dramatic, like there's
Speaker 3: less to kind of like hang on too, but it's
Speaker 3: like really nice, just like I don't know, it's just
Speaker 3: nice seeing girls talking like I don't know, it's it's
Speaker 3: nice hearing about like normal kind of like everyday problems
Speaker 3: and stuff, and I don't know, it's very I guess,
Speaker 3: I mean, at least in terms of like Cocomo City,
Speaker 3: it's very like I don't know, it becomes very dark
Speaker 3: because like the movie itself is fairly light and you know,
Speaker 3: it's fairly easy to watch, like kind of like a
Speaker 3: hangout Eat documentary. But I mean in real life, one
Speaker 3: of the actress was like murdered like in Atlanta, and
Speaker 3: it's like flash god damn. Like just like I appreciate
Speaker 3: that they they they didn't want to do so much
Speaker 3: of the like trauma porn stuff, but like, I mean,
Speaker 3: god damn it, it's incredibly real.
Speaker 2: Like I think that's the best way to get the
Speaker 2: trans representation I mean is through documentaries, right obviously, And
Speaker 2: then I don't think people really watch that many documentaries.
Speaker 1: Though, I mean, I love trans documentaries. They're some of
Speaker 1: my favorite things I did. So I have a series
Speaker 1: that I've been doing in Austin that I'm still doing
Speaker 1: even after I've moved. I've been doing it for two
Speaker 1: full years now, and it's like a queer film. It's
Speaker 1: like a general queer film series, but kind of focus
Speaker 1: on like deeper cuts. And something they let me do
Speaker 1: is to pair features with shorts. And I've, you know,
Speaker 1: over the past couple of years, found all these little
Speaker 1: short films where it's basically, you know, here's we've sat
Speaker 1: a trans person down and they're just going to talk
Speaker 1: about their life for ten or fifteen minutes. And sometimes
Speaker 1: they show like glimpses of their life or like reenactments
Speaker 1: of like things that they've done. But like those shorts
Speaker 1: are always the ones that like get the best reactions.
Speaker 1: I've had people come out to these screenings and hate
Speaker 1: the movie but love the short and I think there's
Speaker 1: such a power in just having someone sit down and
Speaker 1: just talk and yeah, you hear their experience or you
Speaker 1: see a little bit of their life. And I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess that's the problem I have with a lot
Speaker 1: of like narrative films is like, you know, we we
Speaker 1: see trans people on the screen, but we don't really
Speaker 1: what we see isn't really like their real life. We
Speaker 1: see like a SIS person's interpretation of what like a
Speaker 1: trans life is like or what the trans experience is like.
Speaker 1: I would love more trans documentaries that just you know,
Speaker 1: sit someone down.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, those are definitely like my favorite's Like that's yeah,
Speaker 3: that's why I like like Cokona City and Dress in
Speaker 3: Blue so much. So you're gonna love Southern Comfort. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I'll check that out for sure. So Liz, I have
Speaker 3: well sorry, what was your question? Oh I was I
Speaker 3: was gonna try to piv it to our little game,
Speaker 3: but if you have a question, yeah, this.
Speaker 2: Will be my last to my last little question, then
Speaker 2: we can pivot to the game. I just wanted to
Speaker 2: ask you, Liz, what made you want to get into
Speaker 2: into this career field and like why did why did
Speaker 2: you want to do what you do.
Speaker 1: For me, it's just a being kind of obsessed with
Speaker 1: movies and fascinated by movies and be like wanting to
Speaker 1: help get them out there or help show them to people,
Speaker 1: or I mean, the thing I've kind of built my
Speaker 1: name off of is this project I do called Ask Anybody,
Speaker 1: and Ask Anybody? Was anybody Buddy, b b U, D
Speaker 1: D Y right, And it was basically just me researching
Speaker 1: and exploring the history of gaye porn. And the thing
Speaker 1: that got me into those.
Speaker 3: Movies is that every night, every night.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know, but I mean
Speaker 1: this goes into everything we've been talking about. Gay porn
Speaker 1: movies in the seventies and the eighties were the only
Speaker 1: way that gay filmmakers could really make gay movies and
Speaker 1: tell gay stories and actually explore like gay ideas in film.
Speaker 1: You know, in gay porn we see the first coming
Speaker 1: out stories, we see the first gay romances. We see
Speaker 1: gay horror movies and gay westerns and gay comedies and
Speaker 1: gay gay thrillers, gay everything. Yeah, as long as a
Speaker 1: film had like a certain amount of sex scenes or
Speaker 1: a certain amount of cumshots, you could do what you
Speaker 1: could do whatever else you wanted. The sex doesn't even
Speaker 1: have to be hot as long as it had sex
Speaker 1: in it. A filmmaker could make a film, have the
Speaker 1: money to make the film, get it released, and then
Speaker 1: basically almost be guaranteed to make a profit, and then
Speaker 1: be able to make more movies. And then the theaters
Speaker 1: that the films would play at were like gay porn
Speaker 1: theaters that were dedicated theaters where you could go any
Speaker 1: day of the year and see a gay movie and
Speaker 1: cruise and probably know fucker get fucked. Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: think there's something really powerful about that. And like these
Speaker 1: movies they were kind of a big deal in their time.
Speaker 1: They were reviewed in gay newspapers and magazines, they had stars,
Speaker 1: they had like well known directors, and then over the
Speaker 1: past couple of decades, with you know, aids and respectability
Speaker 1: politics and all this stuff, those films kind of just disappeared.
Speaker 1: And ask anybody, it was me trying to like re
Speaker 1: examine these films and see, like, you know, is me saying, like,
Speaker 1: I think there's something here. I think people would be
Speaker 1: into this stuff if they knew about it, and basically
Speaker 1: trying to explore that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so I think that's what it's like. Uh,
Speaker 3: Like Burt Reynolds and boogeyn Its. But yeah, yeah, like
Speaker 3: I want to make actual arts. I think that's very cool.
Speaker 3: I've noticed you and some other people. I've seen a
Speaker 3: lot of like people reviewing, like a lot of these
Speaker 3: movies have been added to the letterbox recently, and I've
Speaker 3: seen a lot of people like, I don't know. I'm
Speaker 3: glad you kind of explained that because it took me.
Speaker 3: I didn't really understand how a lot of people were, like,
Speaker 3: I don't know, even having like interests in a lot
Speaker 3: of these like erotic like seventies sixties like movies. But
Speaker 3: that that makes total sense. Yeah, So I think.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people when they think of
Speaker 1: these things, they think it's just gonna be like an
Speaker 1: internet porn video where it's just fucking yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: These film these films had stories, they had characters, and
Speaker 1: the gay movies they were so little budget that they
Speaker 1: often shot in like the actual spaces, so these movies
Speaker 1: are the only places you can see certain like famous
Speaker 1: gay bars or certain gay porn theaters or there were
Speaker 1: a couple of movies that were shot at New York's
Speaker 1: Cruising Peers, which are now long since demolished. And here
Speaker 1: in this movie you can see a depiction of what
Speaker 1: it was like to cruise the peers. Or here you
Speaker 1: could see what it was like to be at a
Speaker 1: gay bar in the mid seventies, or here's what a
Speaker 1: gay porn theater was like. Yeah, and like these filmmakers
Speaker 1: they you know, the ones that really cared and were
Speaker 1: really trying to do good work. I think they were
Speaker 1: using sex as a way of exploring these ideas of
Speaker 1: gay liberation. You know, we have we're still arguing about
Speaker 1: the merits of promiscuity versus monogamy or you know, polly
Speaker 1: relationships or you know, I only have one part sex
Speaker 1: scenes in films or even sex scenes in films. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: like none. None of this stuff is new, and I
Speaker 1: think people don't realize that. And I think with the
Speaker 1: advent of prep, you know, however long ago that was,
Speaker 1: I think there has been this kind of revitalization and
Speaker 1: cruising culture and sex culture, and people are I think
Speaker 1: now maybe more in a mindset to look at back
Speaker 1: at this stuff and kind of see the value there.
Speaker 1: And again, this stuff, this stuff was seen as being
Speaker 1: part of gay liberation. You know, sex gay liberation was
Speaker 1: sex and to actually make a gay movie that had
Speaker 1: a gay story and showed gay sex, which was a
Speaker 1: crime at the time. I think there's something.
Speaker 3: Powerful about that, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: And for me, like as I was kind of like
Speaker 1: like as when my egg cracked and I sort of transitioning,
Speaker 1: seeing transporn from that time was really powerful to me
Speaker 1: because you know, I think a lot of people nowadays
Speaker 1: would look at that stuff and be like, oh, this
Speaker 1: is made for cis people like who fucking cares about this?
Speaker 1: It's gross, it's exploitative. But for me, when I see
Speaker 1: that stuff, I'm like, here's like trans women who are
Speaker 1: beautiful and who are like desired, And a lot of
Speaker 1: those movies were made by people from like the community,
Speaker 1: and people who were you know, had their hand both
Speaker 1: in the sex stuff but also like drag pageants in
Speaker 1: the drag world and magazines and publishing, so you see,
Speaker 1: you know, these like it's clearly made by community or
Speaker 1: people who are like related to community, and I think
Speaker 1: those movies are so cool.
Speaker 3: Thank you for that. I don't know, I really like, uh,
Speaker 3: I don't know. We're very like discourse oriented a little
Speaker 3: little subgroup of people now and I feel like just
Speaker 3: so much of this is like I don't know, just
Speaker 3: so much of this is so like unnecessary when like
Speaker 3: you said, like a lot of these like arguments are
Speaker 3: just very like sick look stuff that like has been
Speaker 3: litigated and litigated long before like tumblr was ever invented.
Speaker 3: And yeah, but I feel like if I feel like,
Speaker 3: by like preserving this history and like like engaging with
Speaker 3: like history and culture in that way, we can like
Speaker 3: maybe hopefully in the future, break some of these like
Speaker 3: cyclical argument cycles. Yeah, and that's what art is all about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there's there were gay filmmakers in the
Speaker 1: eighties complaining about how, in like mainstream movies, the camera
Speaker 1: would always have to pander the window when people had sex. Yeah,
Speaker 1: very very calmy by your name. It's like, why why
Speaker 1: can't we show the people actually having sex or show
Speaker 1: show their relationship in terms of the actual sex instead
Speaker 1: of having to you know, be very tasteful and not
Speaker 1: have it all be part of one thing.
Speaker 3: Oh I love tastelessness. Yeah, huge fah speaking of tastelessness.
Speaker 3: While if, if, if you still have time for it,
Speaker 3: I put together a little game for us to play.
Speaker 3: Sure would you like knowing knowing knowing you uh from
Speaker 3: your letterbox presence. I went I went through UH. I
Speaker 3: went through the task of combining a list in a
Speaker 3: little game that I call porn comment or letterbox review.
Speaker 3: And I've got a list here and I'm just gonna
Speaker 3: read off some of these statements made by real people.
Speaker 1: Can I just say something real quick? This reminds me
Speaker 1: of one of my favorite old school games, which is
Speaker 1: gay Bar or Steakhouse.
Speaker 3: Oh, that's good. That's good. That's good.
Speaker 1: And there was there was there was a website called
Speaker 1: gay Bar or Steakhouse. I don't know if it still exists,
Speaker 1: but it was like a game of like Longhorn the
Speaker 1: Longhorn or like the Ramrod Is this steakhouse?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: I love games like the first one we played in
Speaker 3: the first episode of the season. We had Domino, Presley
Speaker 3: and like her girl group with us, and I found
Speaker 3: a list of all the like saw traps, and I
Speaker 3: found a list of just like weird like either sex
Speaker 3: positions or like sexual objects. And it was called like
Speaker 3: sex or saw and it was it was pretty good.
Speaker 3: I think everyone had a pretty good time.
Speaker 1: We've been we've been talking about movies to the past hour.
Speaker 1: I am a little disappointed. We did not get to
Speaker 1: talk about how trans the Saw franchise is.
Speaker 3: Oh wow. We talked about Saw a lot on and there.
Speaker 1: There was this period last year when I started dating
Speaker 1: someone and she showed me all of the Saw movies
Speaker 1: and this was like, right when you were watching all
Speaker 1: the Saw movies?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, earlier friend.
Speaker 1: My friend Vera Drew was watching all the Saw movies
Speaker 1: and like, I knew three other people who are who
Speaker 1: are all watching Saw movies and like losing their minds over.
Speaker 3: Well, it was because Saw X was covering, so I
Speaker 3: wanted to like brush up on the lore.
Speaker 1: Because I see, I've.
Speaker 3: Seen like up until three when I was like really young,
Speaker 3: and then I don't know, My like taste is such
Speaker 3: like a bell curve. It was like a lot of
Speaker 3: stuff when I thought was really cool when I was
Speaker 3: young that I as I grew more taste, I was like,
Speaker 3: this is stupid, and now like now I've kind of
Speaker 3: regressed into like a pre like hormonal state where I'm like,
Speaker 3: this is awesome.
Speaker 1: I saw one through three or fine Soft four through six,
Speaker 1: Now that's that's no.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I saw a lot of people hating on Soft four,
Speaker 3: but it has one of the funniest scenes in any
Speaker 3: movie ever when Donnie Wahlberg's headed the eyes blocked is
Speaker 3: one of the funniest, like the truly like fall out
Speaker 3: of my seat laughing moments I've ever had watching a movie.
Speaker 1: The insane transition where the woman is thrown into the
Speaker 1: mirror and the camera goes through the mirror.
Speaker 2: And that is so cool. That's I know that is
Speaker 2: that is that Saw four as well?
Speaker 5: Four?
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, dude, that ship is so cool. I
Speaker 3: completely agree. It's very like, uh, I mean, I know
Speaker 3: that one's not directed by James Wand, but that's like
Speaker 3: something James Wand would do, like now, yeah, like in
Speaker 3: like a like an upgrade type movie or something like that.
Speaker 1: One of my projects that have had kind of on
Speaker 1: the back burners, I want to recut the entire Soft
Speaker 1: franchise in chronological order and just see how much of
Speaker 1: a clusterfu that would be.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, how much more confusing it would be.
Speaker 3: I didn't really when I watched Saw X and I
Speaker 3: realized that, like I like leaving the theater, my boyfriend's like,
Speaker 3: you know, that's like supposed to be like before the
Speaker 3: events of Saw two. I'm like what.
Speaker 6: So before Saw two he went to Mexico and did
Speaker 6: all of the what like, that's kind of easy. Letst
Speaker 6: we forget Saw five. Saw five only exists to show
Speaker 6: how the new character from saft wour was there the
Speaker 6: entire or time and not my least favorite.
Speaker 3: Saw five is my least favorite. That one just feels honestly,
Speaker 3: all the like Hoffman centric ones are are not as
Speaker 3: good for me. He's just such. He's so boring like franchise.
Speaker 3: I like him and Saw Saw six obviously is the
Speaker 3: real the real saw heads know that Saw six is
Speaker 3: kind of the best one. I mean, seeing like healthcare
Speaker 3: executives get like tortured is just.
Speaker 2: That's the incredible because I've been battling and going getting
Speaker 2: my fucking f fs covered by insurance.
Speaker 1: I just hope that the next one, when it comes out,
Speaker 1: will have a scene where Jigsaw force someone or Yea
Speaker 1: causes someone to like do their first shot of estrogen.
Speaker 3: You you've been gooning to get to transport your whole life.
Speaker 3: You can name all these transport saws off the top
Speaker 3: of your head, but can you cut your dick off
Speaker 3: to save your life? The camera's like cutting like all
Speaker 3: around him. He like picks up the scaff.
Speaker 2: You have to perform a perfect vaginoplasty on yourself.
Speaker 3: In front of you are two silicon breast implants. You
Speaker 3: was standing on top of weight. You must have them
Speaker 3: into your skin and sew them back up.
Speaker 1: The key is in your testicle. You must give yourself a.
Speaker 3: Working Yeah, there's there's a lot there ship. Yeah. Wow,
Speaker 3: I shouldn't have brought up Saw. This happens every time
Speaker 3: every time. While you guys were talking.
Speaker 2: About Saw, I was checking my Instagram really quick and
Speaker 2: fucking Dylan mulvaney started following me, and I was having
Speaker 2: a mini heart attack. WHOA, she was gonna start looking
Speaker 2: at me discoursing in my stories, but she didn't.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, you better behave. I better behave.
Speaker 2: I was discoursing about the fucking lesbian bar drama that
Speaker 2: a bunch of teenagers who have never been to bars
Speaker 2: seem to have a lot of opinions about.
Speaker 3: I have no idea what you're talking about, but we can.
Speaker 3: I feel like we can put a pen in this. Yeah,
Speaker 3: we can put a pen in it. Sorry. Yeah, well, okay,
Speaker 3: go to the game. Okay, you know we.
Speaker 1: Made it a full hour. We did not start talking
Speaker 1: about day fabs or whatever.
Speaker 3: No, we yeah, no, we don't. We don't do that.
Speaker 3: There's certain things that on this show that I know
Speaker 3: if I bring up is just going to like really
Speaker 3: like I mean, there's just there's certain trans discord stuff
Speaker 3: like we're just talking about discourse a few minutes ago,
Speaker 3: like this is it's so like it's just so toxic
Speaker 3: because like yet, I have my own opinions on things,
Speaker 3: but one, like I don't want to like piss off
Speaker 3: anyone that like is ostensibly on my side. And two
Speaker 3: it's just fucking stupid. Who cares. I don't want to
Speaker 3: talk about like non binary seventeen year olds on TikTok
Speaker 3: like this. I'm not I wasn't talking. I was talking
Speaker 3: about the lesbian bar drama. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Porn
Speaker 3: comments or letter box.
Speaker 2: All right, this one reads sometimes you just have to
Speaker 2: bottom your way to the hop.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say that's a I think it's a letterbox.
Speaker 3: What do you think, Carmen, I'm gonna go with that
Speaker 3: sounds like a letterbox. It is it is. I started
Speaker 3: off as an easy one. That is a review for Saltburn.
Speaker 3: Fuck that movie. I knew that I was going to
Speaker 3: be that all right. I love this girl. She's actually
Speaker 3: an amazing actor. Fully believe her characters massive props, porn
Speaker 3: comment or letterbox.
Speaker 1: See porn comment on that one.
Speaker 3: I'm also gonna go with porn comment. I started jewel
Speaker 3: off easy and I've only I'm only adding one of these.
Speaker 3: But I thought this was an interesting theme when I
Speaker 3: was you need to tell us which porn video that's
Speaker 3: about listen. Oh, I don't know. I did. I did
Speaker 3: make a note when it was straight porn, but all
Speaker 3: the good ones were on straight porn. Because people don't
Speaker 3: really comment on like gay and trans porn. I feel
Speaker 3: like they're a little too embarrassed, a shame of shame.
Speaker 3: Although I did. There is a very running theme. I
Speaker 3: had to look at quite a lot of porn to
Speaker 3: make this list.
Speaker 1: There running thank you for your Yeah, you know, I
Speaker 1: do what.
Speaker 3: I can for it's all for the show. There is
Speaker 3: a running theme in a lot of transporn where people
Speaker 3: are like, fuck, I'm gay. Now It's like, you know,
Speaker 3: damn well, you didn't just like stumble in here, like
Speaker 3: you know what you're doing, Like you didn't just trip
Speaker 3: and fall and now you're like, yeah, yeah, you didn't,
Speaker 3: just like yeah, anyway, hey guys, quick question. I'm stuck
Speaker 3: in Stars and time. I'm currently in Act three. I
Speaker 3: tried beating the king so many times and even helping
Speaker 3: with friends, but for some reason, the act doesn't change.
Speaker 3: Is there something I'm doing wrong? Any help is appreciated.
Speaker 3: This is porn? Huh, This is absolutely porn. And this
Speaker 3: is an interesting theme that I saw where there's a
Speaker 3: lot of people that like to solicit like Reddit style
Speaker 3: video game advice on porn comments. So I only included
Speaker 3: this one just to note that there's a lot of that.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of people just casually discussing like how
Speaker 3: do you tame a horse? And minecraft?
Speaker 1: Are there a lot of porn comments that are like
Speaker 1: those YouTube comments were like I'm a thirteen year old
Speaker 1: and I know this is real rock and roll.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I didn't find I did find some that were like, yeah,
Speaker 5: who's still jack into this in twenty three or like
Speaker 5: who's who's busting to this during the pandemic?
Speaker 3: Like who in lockdown right now? So, yeah, there's there's
Speaker 3: a lot of solidarity in the in the porn community,
Speaker 3: and there's a lot of more like social aspect to
Speaker 3: it that I like. I think that's cool. It's very reddit, though.
Speaker 3: I don't like how red it it is. But what
Speaker 3: are you doing? All right? Uh? They are not getting
Speaker 3: the cleaning deposit back on that cabin. Oh that's I'll
Speaker 3: let you answer first.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go ahead and say that's a letterbox review.
Speaker 1: It's pity.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna say the same thing. It is a It
Speaker 3: is a letterbox review for the film Antichrist. I love
Speaker 3: that movie. Another Dafoe, Yeah that is I love that
Speaker 3: movie too. All right, rat Now I'm hungry for food
Speaker 3: and cock. It's gotta be porn and it's gotta be
Speaker 3: some type of food.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say.
Speaker 3: The letterbox Carmen was right. That was pornography. Was it
Speaker 3: somebody like getting fucked with food or something? I'm gonna
Speaker 3: I didn't like write down. I don't remember that. I
Speaker 3: didn't really write that down. I wrote down the letterbox movie.
Speaker 3: It was with the movie. I just wrote porn from
Speaker 3: when it was porn. Uh, this makes me hungry for
Speaker 3: let's see letterbox. That's gotta be a letterbox review for
Speaker 3: the menu. This was porn. Okay, Damn, this was porn.
Speaker 3: All right, you know what love making belongs in the kitchen.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say letterbox.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna say, Okay, you're wrong. Correct. That was a
Speaker 3: that was for the movie Tempopo. Oh I didn't. I
Speaker 3: never even popped a boner. That is a letterbox review.
Speaker 1: I bet there's a letterbox.
Speaker 3: It's a letterbox for the movie the Gaspard Away film
Speaker 3: Love that Sucks? More like? More like enter my ass?
Speaker 3: Is that in a letterbox review? For Interstellar? Uh? It's
Speaker 3: Enter the Void another gas Away film. Excellent cinematography, amazing
Speaker 3: camera work and sound design. Somebody give the actress a
Speaker 3: Grammy or something. Well done with the production.
Speaker 2: Porn porn definitely, Yeah, when they don't say the name,
Speaker 2: I tried to like work around that, but that was
Speaker 2: a comment I did write down because this person had
Speaker 2: a cool name.
Speaker 3: This was Alpha Pussy Assassin. Whoa we need comments on pornhub?
Speaker 4: Whoa?
Speaker 3: That was another thing. I had to solicit most of
Speaker 3: these from porn Hub, which wasn't a fan of doing.
Speaker 3: But you know, again, the things I do for the show,
Speaker 3: all right, this one I really like a lot. It
Speaker 3: takes a long time to get into, but that's what
Speaker 3: makes it. It's much like the Phil Collins song Something
Speaker 3: in the Air Tonight, Letterbox, I'm gonna say porn. That
Speaker 3: was pornography. That was that was pornography. They were thinking
Speaker 3: about Phil Collins, what they were dooning. Pussy is just
Speaker 3: not that interesting?
Speaker 2: Is that a letterbox review for Benedetta Liz?
Speaker 3: What do you say?
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go ahead say letterbox.
Speaker 3: Correct. It's for the movie Anatomy of Hell, which there's
Speaker 3: another movie that I hate. It's way way too French,
Speaker 3: way too French. Don't like that movie. Life sucks. And
Speaker 3: then you come it's so.
Speaker 1: Pity that, like, my mind immediately goes to letterbox. But
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say porn.
Speaker 3: Your mind is on the right track, and it is.
Speaker 3: You're right, the pissiness it is. It is a one
Speaker 3: sentence letterbox review. It's for the film the Todd Solon's
Speaker 3: film Happiness Wow, which is which is an awesome movie,
Speaker 3: hilarious film, way more come dialogue than initially expected.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, letterbox.
Speaker 3: That is also a review for the film Happiness Wow.
Speaker 3: Uh that movie. Todd Solon's is h such a freak
Speaker 3: he should be put in jail. But he makes some
Speaker 3: cool movies.
Speaker 2: All right, Uh, she's a Catholic, she'd be shunned in
Speaker 2: the eyes of God. He's going wait, fuck, I wrote
Speaker 2: this one weird, fucked.
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna skip this one. It was porn, Okay,
Speaker 3: I wrote that one weird. Uh, I'd kill myself if
Speaker 3: I wasn't a part of that fire orgy. Letterbox Yeah,
Speaker 3: which mode is that? That is a letterbox for the
Speaker 3: film Ken Part another movie made by someone who should
Speaker 3: be put in jail. That it is not very good.
Speaker 3: This one was fucked up. I like, don't like this one,
Speaker 3: but uh, I hope she gets locked in a dungeon
Speaker 3: and fed dick and balls twenty four seven, three sixty five.
Speaker 1: God the phrase dick and balls. I'm gonna say porn.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is fucked up. This is a one and
Speaker 3: a half star review for the movie Megans. Really fucking stupid.
Speaker 2: This person should be put in jail, Like, for real,
Speaker 2: that's horrible.
Speaker 3: I did not see one single person smile.
Speaker 1: Porn letterbox.
Speaker 3: This is a letterbox review for the Matrix Reloaded. And finally,
Speaker 3: I feel like this guy wakes up every morning and
Speaker 3: says to himself in the mirror, this is my swamp.
Speaker 3: That's gotta be porn.
Speaker 1: Porn.
Speaker 3: It has to be porn, and in fact it is. Liz.
Speaker 3: Thank you for joining us, Thank you for playing, Thank
Speaker 3: you for playing a game. Do you have anything you
Speaker 3: want to promote? Any any links you want to send,
Speaker 3: will obviously keep in the show discribtion.
Speaker 1: Sure early March. I am going to be well On
Speaker 1: March six, I'm gonna be at Nighthawk Cinema in the
Speaker 1: Prospect Park, Nighthawk in Brooklyn showing One of my favorite
Speaker 1: movie is Pumping Iron to the Women, which is incredible,
Speaker 1: incredible documentary a about like big strong women and b
Speaker 1: it's a film that I think has a lot of
Speaker 1: a lot of queer themes. It's about you know, who
Speaker 1: defines what femininity is? What is too masculine for a woman?
Speaker 1: You know what? What? What is? Uh? What is too masculine?
Speaker 2: In?
Speaker 1: What am I thinking? It's a film with big strong women,
Speaker 1: and it's a film I.
Speaker 3: Think you can enjoy.
Speaker 1: You can enjoy as a film about big strong women,
Speaker 1: but you can also enjoy it as a film that
Speaker 1: has a lot of trans allegory. And it's incredible.
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's great. Yeah, Yeah, go on out go
Speaker 3: support our girl. Also, yeah, we can the links to
Speaker 3: your website and everything down there. Follow Liz. She's great,
Speaker 3: very knowledgeable all our movie heads out there. I hope
Speaker 3: you enjoyed this one, and Liz, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 3: It means a lot.
Speaker 1: Thank you, No, thank you. It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 2: So we just shot a music video this week for
Speaker 2: Janie's new song on her new album, East Atlanta Sober
Speaker 2: that comes out pinning.
Speaker 3: This fall a summer summer.
Speaker 2: Okay, it's going to why did.
Speaker 3: I say fall?
Speaker 2: I was literally thinking spring and I said fall? Why
Speaker 2: did I Anyway.
Speaker 3: Maybe spring mid spring, early summer. But yeah, new album
Speaker 3: coming out. I have a new single. For all of
Speaker 3: my albums, I want to have like one really really heavy, aggressive,
Speaker 3: like grind corey song on it, and this is the
Speaker 3: one for that. So it's it's very very aggressive, very short, blistering,
Speaker 3: angry political and yeah, so I got a bunch of
Speaker 3: girlies together there to help us tie up an effigy
Speaker 3: of a man and kill him. And yeah, it's great.
Speaker 3: I'm very excited about it. I'm very proud of it
Speaker 3: and proud of our director. Shout out to Natasha Riiley
Speaker 3: she's nominated for some sort of award right now because
Speaker 3: she's very talented.
Speaker 2: But yeah, shout out to her. She's really great. And yeah,
Speaker 2: especially she did our photos.
Speaker 3: Yes she did. Yeah, if you've enjoyed our little like
Speaker 3: new like promotional like photos and stuff, she did those two.
Speaker 3: So she's very talented. But yeah, it should be out
Speaker 3: probably next week. So maybe by next week's episode, we'll
Speaker 3: have it linked in the description for you to check out.
Speaker 2: So yeah, keep an eye on the keep an eye
Speaker 2: on the Jaming Danger YouTube channel. I'll link that in
Speaker 2: the description below so that people can subscribe it and whatnot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, do we have any desperate colors that need help?
Speaker 3: We do have one desperate callers today.
Speaker 4: Let's queue it up, he translated Beauty, recent listener of
Speaker 4: the show love It. I don't really have a problem
Speaker 4: or like a specific question, just wanted to share something
Speaker 4: and get ill thoughts. Uh. So, I was assigned mail
Speaker 4: at birth. I'm currently identifying as non binary, and you know,
Speaker 4: experimenting with like different ways of like gender expression and
Speaker 4: YadA YadA. I really learned here to talk about more
Speaker 4: here to talk about you know, since beginning to identify
Speaker 4: as non binary, I started to the past couple of
Speaker 4: people I dated or hooked up with. That's right, Almost
Speaker 4: all big trans women get which I which you know
Speaker 4: I love?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 4: I I think the thing I wanted to get your
Speaker 4: thoughts on was a number of them have sort of
Speaker 4: made comments about you know, unprompted.
Speaker 3: Like I knew it. I knew it was like I
Speaker 3: was about to have.
Speaker 4: You considered transitioning you know, your gender? Right? Have you considered,
Speaker 4: you know, taking hormones which you know? I don't I
Speaker 4: take a compliment? Yeah, I mean I don't know magic
Speaker 4: shouldn't I do? You know? There are times I enjoy
Speaker 4: I enjoy like, you know, dressing up and like more
Speaker 4: fun clothing, and it's kind of nice when like someone
Speaker 4: like calls me like ma'am or something in the street.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I'm just curious if like this is like a thing
Speaker 4: that you heard about.
Speaker 3: Or oh, we've heard about it, honey.
Speaker 4: I like this question people who have had similar attitude.
Speaker 3: I have some thoughts that I want to get.
Speaker 4: Out before you do great work with the show.
Speaker 2: Okay, so first thing, I know that you're new at this,
Speaker 2: Please stop saying assigned to mail at birth. We do
Speaker 2: not need to know that you're a mab afab whatever
Speaker 2: we can tell. Oh my god, it's just annoying, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. The whole point of being non
Speaker 2: binary is to not like establish your sex in every conversation,
Speaker 2: So stop doing that please.
Speaker 4: And uh.
Speaker 2: The other thing I would say is we're not changing
Speaker 2: our gender, We're changing our sex, and that's an important
Speaker 2: thing to keep in mind. Hormones change your sex.
Speaker 3: We are.
Speaker 2: Already i think, confident in our gender prior to that.
Speaker 2: But it really just comes down to, Yeah, if you
Speaker 2: feel like you like being referred to as a woman,
Speaker 2: ma'am moving through life as a woman, and you see
Speaker 2: yourself moving through life as a woman, then yeah, I
Speaker 2: think that's something that you should pursue. I also don't
Speaker 2: think hormones are that serious of a deal where you
Speaker 2: need to be, like, you know, super afraid of trying
Speaker 2: them for like a short period of time. I agree
Speaker 2: with that, SOO, yeah, you could try them for a
Speaker 2: period of time and see how that makes you feel.
Speaker 2: If that makes you feel any affirmed, yeah, like in
Speaker 2: one way or the other.
Speaker 3: I'd say if you give it like six months or so,
Speaker 3: you're not really going to get anything that you can't undo,
Speaker 3: and you'll definitely be able to get like at least
Speaker 3: like a taste of like what that experience is like
Speaker 3: and be able to see if you like it or not.
Speaker 2: But I will also say that, you know, hormones are
Speaker 2: just one part of it, you know. I mean, I
Speaker 2: would also experiment with, like, you know, presenting if that
Speaker 2: is something that you want to do, because also keep
Speaker 2: in mind that being a woman really does not come
Speaker 2: down to the clothes you like to wear. It comes
Speaker 2: down to how you feel about your sex at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, you know, like do I you know,
Speaker 2: and so you can wear whatever clothes you want to wear.
Speaker 2: But I would I would practice with presenting more feminine
Speaker 2: and just seeing how that makes you feel.
Speaker 3: I support that as well. I have some kind of
Speaker 3: maybe maybe differing opinions from my lovely co host here though,
Speaker 3: please and that well, for one, I want to address
Speaker 3: the uh like the trans people making comments, because this
Speaker 3: is the thing that especially lots of younger trans women
Speaker 3: like to do where they do this very like r
Speaker 3: slash egg irl bullshit where they're like, oh, I'm cracking
Speaker 3: the egg. And I also kind of want to talk
Speaker 3: about the twitch streamer thing I don't know. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: we can get into that a little bit later because
Speaker 3: this kind of ties into that in a way. But
Speaker 3: I think, you know, contrary to what our haters might
Speaker 3: say about us, we or at least me, for sure,
Speaker 3: I like the idea of people being on binary. I
Speaker 3: think it's great. I think if you are non binary
Speaker 3: and you are comfortable with that as your label, I
Speaker 3: think that's very cool and I think that's fine, and
Speaker 3: I don't think anyone should try to like change that
Speaker 3: about you if that's something you're very comfortable with. So
Speaker 3: that's why I.
Speaker 2: Would say, if you don't, like, if it makes you
Speaker 2: uncomfortable that trans women that you're making up with or yeah,
Speaker 2: are saying that too, I think you could you could
Speaker 2: respond with some I think you're well within your right
Speaker 2: to respond with some caddie bullshit like oh well, maybe
Speaker 2: I'm happy with who I am or something like, because
Speaker 2: that's not their business, Like that's not someone else's business
Speaker 2: to like be your fucking indochronologists, you know.
Speaker 3: Or you're like your fucking therapist. Yeah, yeah, like I
Speaker 3: think if I think again, though, that's like a thing
Speaker 3: that you have to decide. Like, I think you need
Speaker 3: to decide, like, if you're happy with who you are
Speaker 3: being non binary, then you should be happy with that.
Speaker 3: That's fine.
Speaker 2: But I always encouraged, like, if that's being said, yes,
Speaker 2: I always encourage people just trying it out if they're curious.
Speaker 3: But I was gonna say that too. There would be
Speaker 3: nothing wrong with like identifying as trans for a while
Speaker 3: just to try, Like, I don't I don't see anything
Speaker 3: wrong with that. When I first came out, I said
Speaker 3: I was like gender queer for like a year, and
Speaker 3: to be honest, I kind of knew I was trans
Speaker 3: like the whole time, but it was kind of my
Speaker 3: way of like dipping my toes in the water before
Speaker 3: I like actually like dived into the deep end.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you have so many like societal pressures to
Speaker 2: be a man, you know, if that's what you're born
Speaker 2: as or whatever. You have so many pressures to be person.
Speaker 2: So really the first step in becoming a trans woman
Speaker 2: for us is just like learning to accept that we're
Speaker 2: not those people for anyone, and we have to be yeah,
Speaker 2: who we are for ourselves. For you, Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 2: would also maybe disagree with you a little bit that,
Speaker 2: like this is something I've kind of came around on
Speaker 2: like I've always used to kind of be like very
Speaker 2: hardlined about like no, like if you're like taking hormones,
Speaker 2: you're like clearly like like trans. But I'm starting to
Speaker 2: think maybe like you can identify as like non binary
Speaker 2: or something else.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wouldn't call you sis quite, but like I
Speaker 3: think if you're if I think, if you want to
Speaker 3: experiment with like hormones and stuff and like consider yourself
Speaker 3: like non binary or like like a thin boy or
Speaker 3: something like, I mean, as long as you're not like
Speaker 3: being annoying about it, like that's that's fine. I don't
Speaker 3: see anything wrong with that. So I would also add
Speaker 3: like if you want to like kind of keep that
Speaker 3: like identity the label, but also like maybe experiment with
Speaker 3: more like physical like you know, hormones, presentation, like voice training, whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 3: try that, like try on different hats.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: It's it's it's because I definitely relate to like the
Speaker 3: confusion of kind of like when you realize, like when
Speaker 3: you get that like splinter in your mind and you realize, like, Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm definitely not like sis. I'm definitely not like being
Speaker 3: comfortable being referred to as male as a man or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and just like having this kind of like culture shock,
Speaker 3: I guess of not being sure like what that means. Yeah,
Speaker 3: Like I definitely like relate to that kind of like confusion,
Speaker 3: and I think that's something that you should like guide
Speaker 3: yourself through. And but I like talking talking with like
Speaker 3: friends and stuff would help. But I think like talking
Speaker 3: with like randos that you like hook up with or
Speaker 3: like whatever, like they a lot a get A lot
Speaker 3: of fucking trans girls are like very annoying this and
Speaker 3: they like want to crack.
Speaker 2: Your I'll be honest too, can I can I say,
Speaker 2: like I'm sorry, well, just to like play Devil's advocate
Speaker 2: here for the trans women, I will say, you know, uh,
Speaker 2: just to say, like fucking like fucking trans women does
Speaker 2: not make you trans, you know, and being trans. You know,
Speaker 2: there's other and I can't we'd have to play it back.
Speaker 2: But I can't remember if this person is even necessarily
Speaker 2: questioning their gender or if other people are just questioning
Speaker 2: their gender, you know what I mean. I think they
Speaker 2: I think they are a little bit, yeah, because it
Speaker 2: sounds to me more like it's like an external like
Speaker 2: these trans women that you're fucking are being like, hey,
Speaker 2: you know what's going on, And yeah, there are some
Speaker 2: trans women that take a lot of like glory and
Speaker 2: being like I'm.
Speaker 3: Gonna crack the eg.
Speaker 2: But honestly, it's like we just need to accept that
Speaker 2: like nobody determines anyone's gender or secon expect themselves.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, this is something we've talked about a
Speaker 3: lot in regards to like, yes the Kirk. Yeah, that's
Speaker 3: a classic example because it's something that like really goes
Speaker 3: against the kind of modus operanda being trend. Yeah, you're
Speaker 3: deciding for someone else, like like that's not like that's
Speaker 3: you can't do that, and that's something that I will
Speaker 3: always reject. So yeah, I think we can like cover
Speaker 3: our bases here and answer and like help them with
Speaker 3: like the the kind of like either one, because yeah,
Speaker 3: it does seem like it could be like either they
Speaker 3: are questioning this and are not sure about like the
Speaker 3: external influences, or they're very very sure and are kind
Speaker 3: of annoyed by the external influences. And I think we
Speaker 3: can answer like both of those questions in an honest
Speaker 3: way and maybe that that will help our help our
Speaker 3: dear listener, because I just like try to shut out,
Speaker 3: you know, I think so too. I would also agree, like,
Speaker 3: and this is something that like an annoying, like egg
Speaker 3: cracky trans woman probably would say. But it's true, Sis,
Speaker 3: people don't buy and large don't really experiment with like
Speaker 3: hormones or like even think about like doing stuff like that.
Speaker 3: So if that's something that you like are really like
Speaker 3: in your brain wanting to do, I mean, I don't
Speaker 3: know what to tell you, girl, Like that's that sounds
Speaker 3: like it might be something you would be worth trying out.
Speaker 2: It just depends on you know, you gotta just break
Speaker 2: through all those barriers of like I don't know just
Speaker 2: what other people around you expect to you.
Speaker 3: I mean I feel like one of the big things
Speaker 3: is like, oh, like I'm gonna like sterilize myself. But
Speaker 3: it's like it sounds like you're gay already, so I
Speaker 3: mean it's kind of like God already did that for you.
Speaker 3: I mean you can also like you could come in
Speaker 3: a ziplock bag and keep it in your freezer, like
Speaker 3: it's you can always do. I've heard that works. Oh,
Speaker 3: I've got an ice tray full come from when I
Speaker 3: was three at your house. Oh, it's clearly labeled it's
Speaker 3: clearly labeled not ice. Something else, sir, it's not ice.
Speaker 3: It's a secret more sinister second thing.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm terrified. I have a friend who
Speaker 2: keeps a fucking dead cat in their freezer, and I
Speaker 2: have a friend who keeps the fucking ice tray of
Speaker 2: com in their freezer.
Speaker 3: This is I don't Actually I do sometimes kind of
Speaker 3: wish that I, like save my sperm, but it's a
Speaker 3: very very expensive to do in Georgia. Yeah, don't you
Speaker 3: have to like pay rent on that? Yeah? No, it's
Speaker 3: really really it's like a monthly fee or some shit. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm not sure. I know that. Like just like doing
Speaker 3: the deposit is like incredibly expensive. It's like, I'm the
Speaker 3: one who's coming.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to wait.
Speaker 3: I didn't want to wait. I was like, I'm just
Speaker 3: gonna I'm just gonna start hormones. And I think having
Speaker 3: kids like stupid. I'm just gonna say it. Also, I'm adopted.
Speaker 3: I could adopt.
Speaker 1: Exactly my point.
Speaker 3: And also I've come to realize I'm more into like
Speaker 3: long term relationships with men and uh just making out
Speaker 3: with girls because they're pretty. But uh, yeah, can we
Speaker 3: really quick talk about do you know about the twitch
Speaker 3: streamer guy Finn girl be, I don't know. I mean
Speaker 3: she's not. I think I think they're in any pronouns person. So,
Speaker 3: but I think that's an interesting like cultural tie into
Speaker 3: this conversation. Yeah, because people for so long have been saying, oh,
Speaker 3: you're an egg, when are you gonna start a hormone?
Speaker 3: Finn's on hormones. It turns out they were six months
Speaker 3: they've been on hormones, but of course they were. If
Speaker 3: you looked at that person, well, I'm with you. Can
Speaker 3: I be honest with you?
Speaker 1: Can I be mean?
Speaker 2: For a second, I watched the coming out video and
Speaker 2: I was I'm very happy for.
Speaker 3: I was shocked that they were like Australian or whatever.
Speaker 3: That was hard. I think, oh god, which is like
Speaker 3: even worse. I thought they were America.
Speaker 2: It's like even harder to get HRT and like, if
Speaker 2: you're in America, try it out. But anyway, England, it's
Speaker 2: a fucking arduous process to get.
Speaker 3: HRT over there. I'm sure.
Speaker 2: But it's all camera angles. Can I just say with
Speaker 2: Finn it's all that camera angle.
Speaker 3: It is the so it is all this.
Speaker 2: Camera angle and I'm going to hold my my laptop
Speaker 2: up like this.
Speaker 3: That is all it is.
Speaker 2: Because when Finn shoots to camera, there was like a
Speaker 2: couple of shots where he she they were shooting a
Speaker 2: camera like face on like this, bricky, bricky, bricky.
Speaker 3: Wow. I don't really care about you being means of
Speaker 3: herd because I'll be honest, there is someone I'm fine
Speaker 3: with Finn. There was someone I was aware of on
Speaker 3: Twitter for a long time because they there was a
Speaker 3: lot of this is they they like, yes, like rage bait,
Speaker 3: I want to get to that. But there was lot
Speaker 3: of trans people that were very like annoying about him, Yeah,
Speaker 3: because like they were annoyed that this is like I mean, honestly,
Speaker 3: they were just jealous. They were annoyed that like a
Speaker 3: quote unquote boy is like pretty and is like using
Speaker 3: that to like get views. And personally, I think that's
Speaker 3: something that also goes against the kind of mo o
Speaker 3: of self identifying being trans, like choosing your own you know,
Speaker 3: labels for yourself whatever. But when they started making videos
Speaker 3: that were like I just tricked a bunch of blokes
Speaker 3: into thinking that I'm a woman, I'm like, yeah, that's
Speaker 3: fucked up, that's weird.
Speaker 2: That's when I started to I don't care be a fimboy,
Speaker 2: be a Twitter, be a whatever. But the rage bait
Speaker 2: stuff at a time when got trans women are being murdered,
Speaker 2: it's just goofy, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: It's insane. It's goofy. And it shows a really like
Speaker 3: detached level of like privilege of like like not realizing
Speaker 3: that like I'm like making like content off of something
Speaker 3: that like gets trans people fucking killed. Like that's insane
Speaker 3: to me, I know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's when I started to like was like
Speaker 2: I don't know about that. But then I want to say,
Speaker 2: you know, I don't want to be armchair psychologists here
Speaker 2: because that's not our job. But some of that, I
Speaker 2: feel like comes down to like internalized trans misogyny. You
Speaker 2: learn for so long that trans women are so disgusting
Speaker 2: they are the most vile, like worst person, type of
Speaker 2: person that can't consist on the face of earth. So
Speaker 2: what do you identify as well, I'll be a finboy
Speaker 2: because that's not quite as nasty, and I'm not saying
Speaker 2: that that's the case.
Speaker 3: But no, I think I know what you're getting a yeah,
Speaker 3: like being like, oh, well, I want to like cross
Speaker 3: dress or I want to like present myself like this
Speaker 3: because I like doing it. Yeah, but in a way
Speaker 3: to like kind of like misdirect from like me saying
Speaker 3: that I like this and I'm comfortable with it, I say,
Speaker 3: I'm doing it for a joke. Yes, yes, it's Halloween.
Speaker 3: I I had to dress up as it's like I don't.
Speaker 2: When I went to Alta, we used to have this
Speaker 2: creepy old guy who'd be like, hey, I lost a
Speaker 2: bet with my wife and she she wants me to
Speaker 2: go out this weekend dressed up like a woman. Do
Speaker 2: you do like make up for drag there at Alta?
Speaker 3: And I would be like, yeah, you can use makeup
Speaker 3: for anything. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I'm like in my head like cancer, Like I'm like
Speaker 2: thinking to myself, like, dude, first of all, you there
Speaker 2: was never a bet. You're just a fucking weirdo and
Speaker 2: you want some type of like yeah wait, yeah that's awesome.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So a lot of it, I feel like comes down
Speaker 2: to like just like internalized trans misogyny and just like
Speaker 2: a hatred for a trans woman that like I can't
Speaker 2: be I can't be that.
Speaker 3: So yeah you know, yeah true, So I guess to
Speaker 3: the club, Yeah, I guess. I guess we can tie
Speaker 3: that back to uh, to the listener's question a little bit,
Speaker 3: assuming there's still like an uncertainty there, which I'm not
Speaker 3: entirely sure if there is or not. That's something you
Speaker 3: have to like also kind of like deal with for yourself.
Speaker 3: Like that was also the kind of part of the
Speaker 3: reason that I probably like that was like a big
Speaker 3: part of the reason why I didn't come out, And
Speaker 3: I would like I would just like cross dress like
Speaker 3: on Halloween or as a joke, because I was you're scared,
Speaker 3: like you're because I'm going to be fucking buffalo Bill,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: Go back and listen to our very first episode together
Speaker 2: when we talk.
Speaker 3: All about that. We've actually talked about a lot of
Speaker 3: those Yeah. So I don't know, I like that question,
Speaker 3: and I like this listener. And if you uh, I
Speaker 3: don't know, if you come to some sort of conclusion
Speaker 3: or something, I'd like to hear back from you, even
Speaker 3: if we just like play it off, even if we
Speaker 3: just play it off air like I would like to,
Speaker 3: I don't know, I care about you. Yeah, yeah, let
Speaker 3: us know how things are going. Yeah, And if you
Speaker 3: are a listener. With any sort of problem, sorry, anything
Speaker 3: that you would like for us to address, you can
Speaker 3: hit our line at six seven eight five six one
Speaker 3: two seven eight five for whatever problems you have. We
Speaker 3: will laugh at you and make fun of you and
Speaker 3: say you're week and a failure, just because we love you.
Speaker 3: We love you. We'll listen to them, we'll consider them,
Speaker 3: we'll give him a very thoughtful response.
Speaker 2: I think we did great today. I think we gave
Speaker 2: I gave some constructive criticism. I gave some genuine love
Speaker 2: and care and concern.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was very motherly of Yille. Yeah.
Speaker 2: All right, y'all, thanks for listening to this week's episode
Speaker 2: of Beauty Translated. Catch us next week we're going to
Speaker 2: be speaking with oh h oh erm Yeah, we're having
Speaker 2: a real political episode next week.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, another another smart one. Yeah no, I'm very
Speaker 3: excited for next week's episode.
Speaker 4: Two.
Speaker 3: We have josh Aka et Injermentum from Twitter substack. You've
Speaker 3: probably maybe heard him do appearances on Chabou Trapals and
Speaker 3: the Hassanabi hasan Piker Broadcast. Really smart political analyst and
Speaker 3: also this one's kind of for the fellas because he's
Speaker 3: a fella fella a cis fella with a penis, and
Speaker 3: he does amazing writing on the world of politics and
Speaker 3: has a great article on trans legislation, and honestly, it's
Speaker 3: it sounds like it's going to be something that's very,
Speaker 3: very depressing, but it might make you feel at least
Speaker 3: a tiny bit better about the world of politics and
Speaker 3: trans stuff.
Speaker 2: Actually it made me feel better. I went in feeling
Speaker 2: very doom and gloom, but then at njer Josh he
Speaker 2: put a lot of things in perspective for me that
Speaker 2: made me feel a lot better and really made me
Speaker 2: feel just kind of better about not covering all the
Speaker 2: stupid legislation bullshit anymore, because it really is just intended
Speaker 2: mostly to be rage rage bait.
Speaker 3: We cover a lot of stuff in this episode that
Speaker 3: we don't normally talk about. So if you've been kind
Speaker 3: of waiting to hear us weigh in on Florida and
Speaker 3: Ohio and all these presidential nominee yea, all these hell
Speaker 3: places and hell topics, listen next week's episode. Those is
Speaker 3: gonna be a fun one. Yeah, it's a good one.
Speaker 1: Thanks y'all.
Speaker 2: Thank you, say beautiful bye bye bye. Thank you for
Speaker 2: listening to Beauty Translated Beauty Translated is hosted by me
Speaker 2: Carmen Laurent and Janie Danger, produced by Kurt Garon and
Speaker 2: Jess Cranchich, so special thanks to Ali Perry and Ali Cantor.
Speaker 2: Our theme music is done by Aaron Kauffman and Beauty
Speaker 2: Translated is proud to be a part of the Outspoken
Speaker 2: network from iHeart Podcasts. For more iHeart podcast visit the
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.