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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and unemployment has hit its highest rate

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Speaker 1: in four years. We have such a great show for

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Speaker 1: you today, The New Republics Meredith Shiner stops by to

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Speaker 1: talk about White House Chief of Staff Susie Wilde's insane

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Speaker 1: interview about what happens in the Trump White House. Then

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Speaker 1: we'll talk to MS now As Paula Ramos about Latino

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Speaker 1: voters and their Trump regret.

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Speaker 2: But first the news, Molly, you're going to be discussing

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Speaker 2: with Meredith Shiner this absolutely bonkers interview with Susie Wills

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Speaker 2: and Vinny Fair about her feelings on the Trump White House.

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Speaker 2: But one of the things we didn't get to do

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Speaker 2: is just read some of the many, many quotes that

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Speaker 2: the American people really should have burned into their brain

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Speaker 2: from this absolutely bonkers.

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Speaker 1: Interview eleven bonkers interviews she sat for eleven interviews.

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Speaker 2: Personally, Trump having an alcoholics personality rang so true to

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Speaker 2: me because even when I was reading that disgusting, disgusting

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Speaker 2: Rob Reiner quote, it sounded like a belliger and drunk

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Speaker 2: clashing out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's an argument to be made

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Speaker 1: that my man has the personality of a dry drunk.

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Speaker 1: So she said that Trump has an alcoholics personality. She

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Speaker 1: is a woman Suzu Weill's staged in intervention for her

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Speaker 1: famous father got him into rehab. So that was how

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Speaker 1: she opened the door to those questions. She said a

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Speaker 1: lot of really interesting things. She said that Musk was

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Speaker 1: an odd, odd duck. That seems generous. She said that

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Speaker 1: he's an avowed kademine user who slept in a sleeping

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Speaker 1: bag in the executive office building in the daytime. The

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Speaker 1: challenge with Elon is keeping up with him. He's an odd,

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Speaker 1: odd duck, as I think geniuses are sure, Okay. She

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Speaker 1: was initially aghast with Musk's solution of you and that

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Speaker 1: no rational person could think his process was good. She added,

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Speaker 1: there are details of the response the president doesn't know

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Speaker 1: and never will nice While said she would support a

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Speaker 1: Vance twenty twenty eight presidential run. I guess that's one person,

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Speaker 1: She said. She will be one of the first people

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Speaker 1: to support it, and she might be one of the

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Speaker 1: only ones. She added if he ran, he'd secure the

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Speaker 1: GOP nomination. Vans's conversion from Mega Trumper to Mega Diehard

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Speaker 1: was quote sort of political. No, really, Susie, we had

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Speaker 1: no idea. While discussing the Epstein files, she also said

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Speaker 1: he'd been a conspiracy theorist for decades. Vance in an

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Speaker 1: interview with The Vanity Fair Piece, praised Wiles for not

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Speaker 1: trying to control or manipulate Trump like his first Rump staff.

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Speaker 1: Yes we know.

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Speaker 2: I'm personally partial to this one that said Trump and

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Speaker 2: Epstein were young single playboys together.

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Speaker 1: Trump is mentioned in what Wilds calls the Epstein Files,

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Speaker 1: but he's not documented doing anything quote awful. Oh well,

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Speaker 1: in that case, she said the president and the convicted

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Speaker 1: sex offender were young, single playboys together. She denies that

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Speaker 1: Trump drew a nude sketch for Epstein's fiftieth birthday book,

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Speaker 1: despite the fact that it looks like the other sketches

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Speaker 1: that Donald Trump has drawn. She said Trump was wrong

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Speaker 1: to say there was incrimining evidence against former President Clinton

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Speaker 1: and the Epstein files. There's no evidence Clinton visited Epstein's

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Speaker 1: private island, she said. She criticized Attorney General Bondi's handling

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Speaker 1: of the Epstein records. That's because she's terrible, and you know. Look.

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Speaker 1: She also talked about Trump's bombing of drug boats and

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Speaker 1: his trying to go to war with Maduro, saying that

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Speaker 1: the drug boats were actually about his war with Venezuela.

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Speaker 1: She said that she and Trump had a loose agreement

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Speaker 1: to and so called score settling by the of his

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Speaker 1: first ninety days, which, FYI, in case you're wondering, has happened,

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Speaker 1: so me and I would not be bragging about that.

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Speaker 2: He's like, I gave you all a thousand names I

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Speaker 2: wanted to sell the score with for within the first

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Speaker 2: ninety day.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, like you know, this is.

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Speaker 2: Like when I say that I'm not going to eat

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Speaker 2: steak after ten pm. But I just made that day, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, good for her for blowing this up. Good

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Speaker 1: for her.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of blowing things up, that's what our economy is

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Speaker 2: having happened to it. So the US economy added sixty

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Speaker 2: four thousand jobs in November, but the employment rate is

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Speaker 2: at a four year high because the math not so good.

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Speaker 2: When we don't have some job numbers from some months.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go out a limb here and say

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Speaker 1: I don't think Donald Trump is doing a great job.

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Speaker 1: And you know when you are I'm going to tell

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Speaker 1: you a secret here. When you're the president, you get

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Speaker 1: blamed for the economy. The economy is good, you get blamed.

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Speaker 1: If the economy's bad, you get blamed. They really had

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Speaker 1: a lot of excuses from Trump World. These are not

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Speaker 1: good numbers, and they are going to I think that

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Speaker 1: Trump World is going to have to defend these numbers.

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Speaker 1: By the way, this is so annoying to me. They

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Speaker 1: could get out of this, Like the tariffs aren't off

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Speaker 1: ramp for Trump, Like the Supreme Court could offer Trump

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Speaker 1: an off ramp with the tariffs. I mean, he's not

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Speaker 1: going to take it, but he should seriously think about it,

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Speaker 1: because there's no world in which this doesn't just get

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Speaker 1: worse and worse. Right, it's not like people are on

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Speaker 1: touring manufacturing, there's no they're there on this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think like one of the things we

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Speaker 2: keep seeing is all their policies are how to get

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Speaker 2: more wealth to the top so that they'll hopefully donate

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Speaker 2: to them. And we see this with another great headline,

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Speaker 2: which is the GOP is now going to force eight

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Speaker 2: million student loan borrowers into repayment. So that's a bunch

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Speaker 2: of people who are not going to put money into

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Speaker 2: the economy in small local businesses and instead get the

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Speaker 2: rich off the hook of their tax burden. And that's

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Speaker 2: what the Trump economy is all about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so Trump World is trying to get these student

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Speaker 1: loan borrowers back into repayment. Some of these loans have

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Speaker 1: been forgiven, some of these loans were not meant to

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Speaker 1: be repaid. But Trump World is all about the bottom

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Speaker 1: helping the top. So basically, the One Big Beautiful Bill

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Speaker 1: will eliminate SAVE and other income driven repayment programs, forcing

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Speaker 1: borrowers to change plans by July first, twenty twenty eight.

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Speaker 1: This is the cruelty is the point, right, make it

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Speaker 1: harder for people to pay off their debt. You know,

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Speaker 1: eventually these guys are not going to be empower Let's

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Speaker 1: hope that when they're not empower, voters remember the many

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Speaker 1: which ways they have screwed working people. Over at our

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Speaker 1: YouTube channel, we have some really exciting stuff. Jesse and

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Speaker 1: I have made a documentary. It's called Project twenty twenty nine,

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Speaker 1: A Reimagining. It's a series about how democrats can deliver

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Speaker 1: popular policies when they regain power. The first episode is

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Speaker 1: up now. It's the first part of the series, and

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Speaker 1: we're going to examine what went wrong with some of

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Speaker 1: the Biden administration's approach to policies that may have prevented

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Speaker 1: Democrats from being able to deliver the broad anti corruption

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Speaker 1: legislation that needed to happen, and by the way, that

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Speaker 1: would have prevented some of the corruption we're seeing right now.

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Speaker 1: The first episode dives deep into the first step of

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Speaker 1: fixing American politics. It may sound unsexy, but it's a big,

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Speaker 1: important issue, and that big subject is campaign finance reform.

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Speaker 1: For this episode, we talk to some of the smartest

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Speaker 1: people we know, professors and academics, people like Lawrence Lessig,

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Speaker 1: Tiffany Mueller, Michael Waldman, and Tom Moore. Republicans were prepared

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Speaker 1: for when they got the levers of power. Democrats need

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Speaker 1: that same kind of preparation. That's why we need to

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Speaker 1: start the conversation on how Democrats can do the same thing.

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Speaker 1: So please head over to our YouTube channel and search

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Speaker 1: Molly John Fast Project twenty twenty nine or go to

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Speaker 1: the Fast Politics YouTube channel page and you'll find it

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Speaker 1: there and help us spread the word and stay tuned

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Speaker 1: for more episodes. Meredith Sheiner is a contributing editor at

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Speaker 1: The New Republic. Welcome to Fast Politics, Meredith, Mollie, thank

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Speaker 1: you again for having me so a giant story this morning.

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Speaker 1: Chris Whipball, who has interviewed many a chief of staff,

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Speaker 1: there's eleven interviews with Susie Wiles. She says a lot

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Speaker 1: of stuff. I'm going to couch this. I have always

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Speaker 1: thought that Cecie Wilds was uniquely talented at doing what

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Speaker 1: she does. Again, this is in no way a positive

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Speaker 1: attribute because the administration she's working for is doing a

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Speaker 1: lot of pretty scary stuff. But I thought we saw

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Speaker 1: a real moment in the campaigns when she left De

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Speaker 1: Santis to go work for Trump, and it was like

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Speaker 1: the moment that Trump started to really catch fire in

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Speaker 1: the primary. And I just think it's so. I do

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Speaker 1: think of her as being very talented. But let's talk

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Speaker 1: about this interview.

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Speaker 3: Well, I can't really speak to her talent, but I

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Speaker 3: can't speak to the substance of what she said and

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Speaker 3: why I think this matters. Over the course of these interviews,

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Speaker 3: she's said some incredibly incriminating things about the President of

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Speaker 3: the United States, about all of the high level people

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Speaker 3: within this administration. And one of the things that I

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Speaker 3: want us to consider is if she is talented, as

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Speaker 3: you say, or she has experience dealing in politics. When

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Speaker 3: you say these things, I think that you have some

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Speaker 3: understanding of the ramifications of what you're saying. And for

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Speaker 3: me for her to just say on the record that

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Speaker 3: in the first three months of this administration, the President

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Speaker 3: of the United States was completely animated, woke up pretty

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Speaker 3: much every morning thinking about political retribution. The kinds of

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Speaker 3: things she's articulating on the record are things that should

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Speaker 3: be incompatible with public service. They are things that were

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Speaker 3: traditionally not considered legal in this country for our political leaders.

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Speaker 3: And I want us to think about the kind of

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Speaker 3: brazen attitude these people need to possess to outline these

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Speaker 3: things to a reporter knowing that they will be shared

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Speaker 3: for publication. To me, what that says is they look

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Speaker 3: back at the first Trump administration, They look back at

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Speaker 3: January sixth, and saw that there was no political accountability.

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Speaker 3: She tries to add this caveat that she tried to

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Speaker 3: encourage President Donald Trump not to release all of the

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Speaker 3: rank and file Trump supporters who had gone to prison

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Speaker 3: after attacking the Capitol on January sixth. But what this

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Speaker 3: doesn't say but shows us is that you can articulate

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Speaker 3: all of these things that aren't within the bounds of acceptability,

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Speaker 3: which aren't legal, and you feel like there are no

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Speaker 3: consequences for you or the people you're working with or

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Speaker 3: around for having done those actions. And so part of

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Speaker 3: this was incredibly stunning to read her sort of assertions

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Speaker 3: about Elon Musk, who was like shadow running the government

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Speaker 3: at some point, being like posting and being on drugs,

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Speaker 3: or comparing Donald Trump to an alcoholic, which I think

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Speaker 3: does alcoholics at disservice to say that you know he's

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Speaker 3: not in control of his impulses and that she's comfortable

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Speaker 3: being around him because she had some experience being around

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Speaker 3: people with alcoholism. Like so many of these things are

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Speaker 3: deeply disturbing, she's saying them out loud. They rose to

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Speaker 3: the level. I saw someone post this on Blue Sky

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Speaker 3: that if the New York Times is writing up almost

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Speaker 3: verbatim and aggregation of things that were reported another outlet,

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Speaker 3: we should really think about how serious those things are.

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Speaker 3: And to do this to say these things, I think

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Speaker 3: that you think that there's going to be no consequences

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Speaker 3: for that. But if you leave office, and after you

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Speaker 3: leave office, both of those things are big questions that

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Speaker 3: you just get to keep living your life. And I

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Speaker 3: think that that is actually at the heart of the

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Speaker 3: problems and the rot that we are seeing in our

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Speaker 3: politics and in our government right now.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting you say that that was not my take

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Speaker 1: from this. My take was that she is the most

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Speaker 1: powerful person in the admin and that was what she

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Speaker 1: was trying to show now, And maybe she had gotten

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Speaker 1: a little too comfortable, because I'm not convinced. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's so many things that are going to be problematic

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Speaker 1: for this administration going forward. I'm thinking about the deportation,

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the many times in which we've seen already,

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Speaker 1: you know, courts telling the administration to do one thing,

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Speaker 1: in the administration doing something else, right, Like, there have

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Speaker 1: been so many instances where just what we're seeing, you know,

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Speaker 1: with not a ton of leaks, has been sort of

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Speaker 1: shocking that I don't think of her as like the

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Speaker 1: most and I'm not a defender on any which way,

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Speaker 1: but I just thought if I found it interesting that

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Speaker 1: she and I wondered were she slipped? Did she get

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Speaker 1: slipped up from the eleven interviews. Did she you know,

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Speaker 1: did she did she just get too comfortable or was

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Speaker 1: she doing this on purpose? Right? Because she's cutting the

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Speaker 1: knees off of like Elon clearly Jadie Vance and Marco, Right,

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Speaker 1: Marco's a real believer, JD is a political animal, and

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Speaker 1: Elon is on drugs.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: She says that she says she she says she's kidding,

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Speaker 1: or she has some caveat But like I just wondered,

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Speaker 1: was this intentional or was this accidental?

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Speaker 3: I can't speak to her motivations, right.

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Speaker 1: I think when you make a.

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Speaker 3: Decision to speak with a reporter in the protracted and

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Speaker 3: intentional sense that she did, you have an understanding that

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Speaker 3: you're trying to create an image to the world about

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Speaker 3: who you are and how you act. And maybe that

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Speaker 3: image that she had over what she was doing and

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Speaker 3: how she was showing up diverged from the reality of

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Speaker 3: how we might receive it. So I think that there

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Speaker 3: were certain points, for example, in this interview, where she

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Speaker 3: tried to say that she had disagreements with the president,

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Speaker 3: which she probably believed were in her strategic interest to

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Speaker 3: express because what he's doing is so on popular, But

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Speaker 3: ultimately like she also is telegraphing and indicating that she's

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Speaker 3: going along with everything that he's doing. She's never at

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Speaker 3: one point overruled him. She says that if it's ever

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Speaker 3: a disagreement between the two of them and there's a tie,

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Speaker 3: quote quote, it always goes to the president.

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Speaker 1: Even in a follow up for the.

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Speaker 3: New York Times write up of the Sanity Fair interview,

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Speaker 3: she was asked about some of her comments, and when

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Speaker 3: The New York Times asked for follow up, she said, well,

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Speaker 3: I never said that, and then they went to the

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Speaker 3: Vanity Fair and played a recording of her saying those things. So,

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Speaker 3: I think when the White House breeds a culture of disloyalty,

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Speaker 3: when the culture in that White House is based on

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Speaker 3: lies and what is also based on the whims of

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Speaker 3: one person, and the entire universe running the government collapses

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Speaker 3: to six or seven people. I mean, that was the

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Speaker 3: thing that was so interesting to me about the editor's

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Speaker 3: note describing Vanity Fair's decision making process behind running the piece.

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Speaker 3: And we can unpack some of that decision making process

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Speaker 3: in a little bit later, but you know, they talked

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Speaker 3: about how when you were in the room with these

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Speaker 3: six people, including Susie Wilds, jd Vance, Marco Rubio, Stephen Miller,

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Speaker 3: Russell vote. You've got the sense that the entirety of

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Speaker 3: the federal government was being run by this half dozen

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Speaker 3: group of people or so. And it is and it is,

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Speaker 3: And that's really scary to think about, because I think

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Speaker 3: that some of those people had a serious agenda, probably

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Speaker 3: more serious than the President of the United States.

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Speaker 1: Resavant was a zealot.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, go on, And you know, like I think

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Speaker 3: I think Donald Trump cares about building his ballroom and

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Speaker 3: being beloved and getting to post whatever he wants on

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Speaker 3: the Internet. And you see this room of people in

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Speaker 3: the White House being photographed in a certain way. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I feel uncomfortable with them being like part of a

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Speaker 3: glamor photo shoot at the White House, because we have

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Speaker 3: to think also about like the image that projects, right,

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Speaker 3: Like those sorts of photos, those post portraits like these

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Speaker 3: are people who are hateful. They're ruining the government, they're

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Speaker 3: ruining the country. And ye.

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Speaker 1: So, but let's stop for a second, because I want

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Speaker 1: to there are two things happening here. One is that

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Speaker 1: piece did not help them, right, That was not a

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Speaker 1: puff pe. That piece was not a puff piece. That piece,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I agree the photos. I mean, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: first of all, I don't know, if you're Stephen Miller,

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Speaker 1: why are you posing for photos? Like obviously this does

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Speaker 1: nothing for you. I mean, I guess he thinks he's

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Speaker 1: become you know, he's getting glossy magazine treatment. But like

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Speaker 1: it's just like, you know whatever. But I want you

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Speaker 1: to talk. But that piece was actually, like the Chris

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Speaker 1: Whipple piece, there is no world in which those people

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Speaker 1: are happy with that piece.

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Speaker 3: I don't think that the piece is a puff piece.

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Speaker 3: And and I think how we present these people and

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Speaker 3: the kind of treatment that they get, and how we

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Speaker 3: make sense of what it is that they are saying,

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Speaker 3: how we provide context for what they're saying, is really

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Speaker 3: an important and significant step. And I don't really know

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Speaker 3: that we've seen a lot of that contextualization or that

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Speaker 3: we've seen like the roles that these people are playing

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Speaker 3: like really articulated, unpacked, communicated in a way that helps

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Speaker 3: us understand like the actual state of this country. And

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Speaker 3: for the people who are the subjects of it, Like

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Speaker 3: I think that they're happy with it because this is

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Speaker 3: who they want to be and this is how they

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Speaker 3: want to be known. Like I think a lot about

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Speaker 3: Stephen Miller, who is two years ahead of me in college,

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Speaker 3: and I think he loves every piece of coverage that

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Speaker 3: quote unquote attacks him because in his mind, like that's winning.

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Speaker 3: So for him to post for these photos and vanity

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Speaker 3: fair and to feel like he's getting this treatment, it

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Speaker 3: doesn't really matter how he is described, because any sort

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Speaker 3: of negative description you would put of him in that

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Speaker 3: format is like something that I think builds him up

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Speaker 3: in some way.

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Speaker 1: But he's not getting negative. I mean he's getting like

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Speaker 1: glossy magazine treatment. Like the photos are you know, Desert Rose, right,

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Speaker 1: they're like they put the fun in fascism. It's the article,

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Speaker 1: but the photos are. I mean, you have those people,

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Speaker 1: you have Stephen Miller, the architect of the child separation,

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Speaker 1: like in a BRIONI suit being like it's a you

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Speaker 1: know like that for sure that is not you know

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Speaker 1: you take those photos, you go down that road, but

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Speaker 1: the whipple piece is actually eleven really you know pretty.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's what we do here is try to

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Speaker 1: get people to say incriminating things. I mean, especially when

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Speaker 1: you're doing an interview like that and he gets her

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Speaker 1: to say them, Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 3: And I think that the biggest question now is again

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Speaker 3: what I was thinking at the beginning of this, which

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Speaker 3: is that she felt free to say those incriminating things

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Speaker 3: in some way, and whether or not she went too

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Speaker 3: far or got too comfortable, like again, I can't speak

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Speaker 3: to that, but I do think that there is a

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Speaker 3: sense of security that you can say these incriminating things

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Speaker 3: and nothing will happen. And to me, that is the

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Speaker 3: biggest indictment of the overall system, whether it is the

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Speaker 3: check and balances that once existed within the government or

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Speaker 3: overall the attention span of the Fourth of State and

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Speaker 3: journalisms more broadly. But you know, for reporters to read

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Speaker 3: what she articulated, it's one thing to you know, to

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Speaker 3: aggregate the top hits and quotes and things that seem

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Speaker 3: most incriminating in this day one New York Times piece.

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Speaker 3: It is another thing to actually focus on those things

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Speaker 3: in a sustained way and ascribe some sort of value

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Speaker 3: to them, like this isn't this isn't a neutral position

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Speaker 3: that she's outlining, Like this is a position that has

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Speaker 3: taken now president previously. And what I worry about is,

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Speaker 3: like all of these quotes all of these things that

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Speaker 3: she was saying getting washed out into the ocean. Is

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Speaker 3: I think she believes that that's what will happen with

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Speaker 3: what not only what she's said about what they've done,

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Speaker 3: but what they've done generally.

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Speaker 1: Clearly, there's going to be, you know, some kind of

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Speaker 1: reconciliation after this is over, where we take stock of

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Speaker 1: the many ways in which this administration has broken the

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Speaker 1: law and flattered our norms and any number of things.

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Speaker 1: And so I think there are like so many questions

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Speaker 1: when we look at this, like are they elevating people

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Speaker 1: who are aspiring autocrats and treating them like their normal

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Speaker 1: it's politics as usual? Also, you know, is this the

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Speaker 1: beginning of the unraveling of this administration? Because you know,

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Speaker 1: one of the things Trump has done really successfully this

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Speaker 1: time is he has you know, the first administration, he

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Speaker 1: fired a lot of people because uh why not? And

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Speaker 1: then this and that created a number of problems for him.

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Speaker 1: And this time he's kept a lot of really sinister

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Speaker 1: characters because he knows that if he fires them, it

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Speaker 1: will be messy.

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Speaker 4: Or I want to go back to the first question

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Speaker 4: you pose, which is this idea of like are we

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Speaker 4: sort of platforming or normalizing want to be autocrats or

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Speaker 4: like staffers.

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Speaker 3: To an autocrat versus is this a sign of the

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Speaker 3: beginning of the end of the administration. That's an interesting question, right,

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Speaker 3: because one, I actually don't think that that's a dichotomy.

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Speaker 3: I do think by writing the editor's note and contextualizing

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Speaker 3: this as we've gone to every White House and we've

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Speaker 3: always taken these photos and you know, posing these people

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Speaker 3: in the way that they did, I do think it

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Speaker 3: creates this patina of normalcy. But like, this is just

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Speaker 3: what a White House is, and these people they're evil,

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Speaker 3: but they're just coworkers. I feel like that was one

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Speaker 3: of the lines maybe in the editors note that like, oh,

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Speaker 3: we were just in a room of co workers and uh,

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Speaker 3: that's a little alarming. Yeah, for the beginning of the

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Speaker 3: end question, I think that the policies of this administration

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Speaker 3: are deeply unpopular. And also I think the depth of

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Speaker 3: the destruction of this time has not even be it

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Speaker 3: been fully reckoned with or understood, and our challenges the

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Speaker 3: degree to which the government was torched. Like, I think

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Speaker 3: that there's this general sense in Washington that every administration

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Speaker 3: is a pendulum wing that you know, but within the

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Speaker 3: bounds of reason, you go from a Democrat to a Republican,

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Speaker 3: and the government was so big that it would not

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Speaker 3: be movable and we would have changes within the margins.

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Speaker 3: And that's not what we've seen. We have learned that

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Speaker 3: every single good faith check and balance it has not

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Speaker 3: really held. And the amount of destruction we've done to

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Speaker 3: higher education, to public health, to scientific research to international aid,

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Speaker 3: there's no switch flipping that's going to get us back

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Speaker 3: to where we were before. And so that was sort

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Speaker 3: of what I was indicating when I was talking about

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Speaker 3: this first comment, of the freedom to say these things

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Speaker 3: and not to feel like there will be consequences, because

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Speaker 3: I think about those first few weeks of the Biden administration,

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Speaker 3: which I actually think are some of the most revealing

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Speaker 3: weeks in the history of our country, where there was

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Speaker 3: this focus on kumbaya and unity and moving huge, huge mistake,

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Speaker 3: and accountability was absent from that process. There was no

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Speaker 3: political accountability for the Republican members of Congress who voted

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Speaker 3: to reject a free and fair election, and there were

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Speaker 3: almost two hundred of them, right, And so this culture

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Speaker 3: where we don't have accountability for actions has not actually

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Speaker 3: allowed us to have a politics or a government that works.

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Speaker 3: And so this might be the beginning of the end

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Speaker 3: of this administration.

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Speaker 5: But how we.

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Speaker 3: Sort through what has happened and how we rebuild is

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Speaker 3: what we will understand and know and live of the impacts.

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Speaker 1: Of this administration.

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Speaker 6: And when you just get to this place where you know,

436
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 6: these people can speak freely about this project, where they

437
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 6: can pose for these photos, where they can actually project

438
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 6: this image, I feel like they think that they're living

439
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,679
Speaker 6: in a world divorced of accountability and divorced from the

440
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 6: reality of what they've created.

441
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 1: Yes, agreed, and that was a failure on the part

442
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: of Democrats too, oh for sure. Yeah, like they needed

443
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:48,479
Speaker 1: what needed to happen, there was real accountability and not

444
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 1: but they're all they you know, Project twenty twenty five.

445
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: They told us what they were going to do, Yeah, and.

446
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 6: They're doing it.

447
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 3: Also, I will also say, like the last thing is

448
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,479
Speaker 3: like not just a failure of Democrats, but a failure

449
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 3: of the mainstream political media who wanted to continue to

450
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 3: give voice and platform members of Congress who voted to

451
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 3: reject a fury free and fair election that like some

452
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:12,360
Speaker 3: of the boundaries that were drawn even corporate boundaries at

453
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 3: the beginning of that time, they eviscerated because they were

454
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 3: no longer convenient or necessary. And living in a country

455
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 3: where that is possible is what brought us here, and

456
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 3: also I think what gives me sort of the biggest

457
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 3: fears and reservations about our future.

458
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 1: So you're in the city of Chicago. Let's talk about

459
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: what's happening. It was cold in Chicago, so ICE went

460
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: away because they are laser focused on whatever it is

461
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 1: they do, mostly harassing people. They came back talk to

462
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 1: us about that.

463
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, So just today Custom and Border patrol ed Greg

464
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 3: Babino came back to Chicago.

465
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 5: Is going around.

466
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 3: It looks like the southwest side of the city and

467
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 3: different just border suburbs around the city. You know, one

468
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 3: of the things that these federal forces and agents really

469
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 3: rely on is when the most acute, egregious and violent

470
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 3: actions fall away from our attention, they keep executing some

471
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 3: of these operations in a way that's persistent. I mean,

472
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 3: I think we saw this in the Los Angeles area,

473
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,919
Speaker 3: where you know, months ago they were getting a lot

474
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 3: of attention for being out in certain areas of the city.

475
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 3: A lot of those operations persisted, but they weren't as

476
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,719
Speaker 3: concentrated or they didn't feel as egregious as before. And

477
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 3: so one of the things that we're seeing here in

478
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 3: the Chicago area is that this vigilance that we have

479
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 3: or need to have, it needs it needs to continue

480
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 3: because these people are going to find random times to

481
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 3: continue to show up and to terrorize our city because

482
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 3: part of the design, the main feature of the design

483
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 3: is randomized terror. And so for him to land here

484
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,439
Speaker 3: and to show up and to see from some of

485
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 3: our independent journalists here Chicago, like Unravaled Press that they're

486
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 3: they're roping around the city and trying to create content

487
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 3: and try to take people off the streets. Their mission

488
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 3: is pretty clear and they're pretty consistent on it. And

489
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 3: our ability to resist and to be out there and

490
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 3: forced is reliant on us actually knowing where they are

491
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,919
Speaker 3: and when and when they're there. And so all of

492
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 3: these networks that have created been created in Chicago, these

493
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 3: like group techs, these organizations like IER which is one

494
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 3: of the immigrant organizations here that sends out alerts where

495
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 3: based on where ICE or CPB is confirmed found in

496
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 3: the city. All of these things were lying and waiting

497
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 3: based on what they had said about coming back in March.

498
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 3: But it's clear that every once in a while they're

499
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 3: going to want to come here to remind people that,

500
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 3: you know, they're able to disrupt the way that we're living.

501
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 3: And one of the things that I would really love

502
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 3: to see from our state leaders is that, you know,

503
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 3: businesses here haven't fully rebounded. There are restaurants or grocery

504
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 3: stores that haven't gotten all of their employees back because

505
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 3: people are still living in fear. And so when those

506
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 3: fears are still real in the people who are experiencing them,

507
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 3: I think we need to continue to acknowledge and uplift

508
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 3: the reality of the situation. And you know, it reminds

509
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 3: me of like when we were at the height of this.

510
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 3: It did really remind me of being at the height

511
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 3: of COVID, where there were people who were afraid to

512
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 3: leave their homes and there was a whole constellation of

513
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 3: small businesses and communities that were impacted, people not being

514
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 3: able to show up to work, both emotionally right but

515
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 3: also like financially logistically. And I think some of the

516
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 3: damage that's been done to cities where they've been more

517
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 3: aggressive also has sort of gone under reported because we

518
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 3: haven't looked at the totality of the impacts, the people

519
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 3: who are too afraid to come to work, the businesses

520
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 3: who don't have full employees, like, all of these things

521
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 3: are still really real and we can't let those get

522
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 3: lost in the headlines either.

523
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: HM. Such a good point. Thank you, Thank you, Meredith.

524
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.

525
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: Paula Ramos is an MS NOW contributor and co host

526
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: of The Moment with Jorge and Paola Ramos and the

527
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: author of Defectors, The Rise of the Latino Far Right

528
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: and What It Means for America. Welcome to Best Politics.

529
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 5: Powell, Thank you for having me again.

530
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: I'm such a fan. I wanted to talk to you

531
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: because we have talked about Latino voters so much. So

532
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: you came on this weekend show on MS and you

533
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: said something that stunned me. And I want to work

534
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: backwards from your very stunning statement. So let's start with

535
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: Cuban voters. I feel like Cuban voters are so interesting,

536
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: so different than the rest of Latino voters and are

537
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: so important to the makeup of the Florida electorate. So

538
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: and what you said about them was stunning. So but

539
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 1: I want you to talk us through Cuban voters and

540
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: where you got to with that, because it's fascinating.

541
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 5: Okay, So, just even for context, you're right to say

542
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 5: that Cuban American voters have always been, historically been a

543
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 5: very big part of the Republican base, always have this

544
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 5: the sixties and other crucial part of the MAGA base,

545
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 5: particularly in South Florida. And I think one of the

546
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 5: reasons why Miami did County flips for Donald Trump in

547
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 5: twenty twenty four is precisely because of that, that Cuban

548
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 5: American vote, and they make history, right, It was the

549
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 5: first time in decades that this county flips towards the

550
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 5: Republican Party because of Cubans. So I think for background,

551
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 5: there's a couple of reasons there that make this interesting.

552
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 5: Number One, Cubans, of course carry this like political trauma

553
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 5: from the island, right, the trauma of playing the castor regime,

554
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 5: and that trauma for years has always translated in a

555
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 5: message that has that has always helped Republicans, right, which

556
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 5: was this idea that a vote for Democrats was a

557
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 5: vote for quote unquote communists. Obviously that's not true, but

558
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 5: that kind of feeds into a paranoia that makes it

559
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 5: easy to exploit, to exploit that trauma.

560
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: Right, just explain the sort of history of this. They

561
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: came over, Yeah.

562
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, of course, so so and I'll speak for myself. So,

563
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 5: my mom is Cuban, My mom was born in My

564
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 5: grandfather was a political prisoner under Gastro. My grandfather and

565
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 5: I believe, like many Cubans at the beginning were pro

566
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 5: the revolution, right, they were pro firell And then once Fidel,

567
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 5: you know, started started really repressing people and becoming who

568
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 5: he was, a lot of people turned on him, including

569
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 5: someone like my grandfather, who then ended up obviously becoming

570
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 5: a prisoner. And so in the sixties you see this

571
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 5: wave of Cubans going to South Florida. Now, what makes

572
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 5: and of course that waves continues to this day, but

573
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,719
Speaker 5: it's the people that leave in the sixties and sixty

574
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 5: five and the seventies, we were slightly more privileged because

575
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 5: they had their resources to leave. Well, makes Cubans very

576
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 5: different from the rest of immigrants. Is that because of

577
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 5: US policy, Right, because of this sort of amicable relationship

578
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 5: we've always had with Cubans fleeing the communist regime, which

579
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 5: is you know, the the quintessential American enemy. Because of

580
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 5: that relationship, Cubans have always had a direct line to

581
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 5: citizenship in this country. Right. It was always like, you

582
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 5: come to this country, you set your feet in this

583
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 5: in American soil. Within a year, you can get residency.

584
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 5: Within a couple of years, you can have a direct

585
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 5: line to citizenship. And so a majority of Cubans are

586
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 5: US citizens, and so they have not had to go

587
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 5: through all of the different loops that other immigrants have

588
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 5: to go through to be citizens or even to be residents, right,

589
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 5: And so we've always had a very privileged relationship in

590
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 5: that sense. So I say all this to say because

591
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 5: Cubans then in Miami, you know, ended up kind of

592
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 5: growing into this this huge political power and have always

593
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 5: felt sort of indebted to a Republican party because it

594
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 5: all fits into, you know, into this this narrative that

595
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 5: can car to this day, which is that you know,

596
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 5: Republicans view themselves as the anti communist party and that message,

597
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 5: you know, the red scare is like the oldest American tail, right,

598
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 5: and it works particularly it works with Cubans.

599
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: What you told me on this show was that Cubans

600
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: voted for Trump and this makes sense, right, they've been

601
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: here longer, they don't necessarily identify with the rest of

602
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: go on.

603
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 5: Right, Okay, Yeah, so that's kind of the historical context

604
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 5: of the Cuban American vote, and so this, you know,

605
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 5: you see them citing with Republicans time and time again.

606
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 5: What's interesting is that Barack Obama becomes the first Democratic

607
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 5: president to almost win the Cuban American vote. He doesn't

608
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 5: quite win in but he becomes super close. After that,

609
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 5: it was downhill from there for Democrats. Where we are

610
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 5: right now, right, you see ice rates happening across the country,

611
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 5: including in Miami Dade County, including in neighborhoods where a

612
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,399
Speaker 5: lot of these Cuban American families are. And I think

613
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 5: what's happening now is that for the first time ever,

614
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 5: these Cuban Americans that were always sort of to the

615
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 5: side and immune to immigration are now feeling it for

616
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:08,919
Speaker 5: the first time. And what does that mean. It means

617
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 5: that very very different things. Number one, even those with citizenship.

618
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 5: And I've heard this from a lot of people. They're

619
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 5: now walking around stores scared of being racially profiled, you know.

620
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 5: And I've heard this from like many people. It also

621
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 5: means that Cuban Americans that have loved ones that are

622
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 5: still not necessarily citizens are seeing their own loved ones

623
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:34,720
Speaker 5: and family members and husbands and cousins and sons being

624
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 5: detained and many of them being placed in two of

625
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 5: the worst detention centers in this country, one being Alligator

626
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,720
Speaker 5: Alcatraz and the other one being Chrome in Miami DD County.

627
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 5: And that is different, right, Like that is something that

628
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 5: for the first time in like forty fifty plus years,

629
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 5: like that's changing the dynamic. Now we can get into

630
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 5: the other side of the story, which is then what

631
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 5: happens when Amarco Rubo or heag Seth sort of continues

632
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 5: implying that they're going to be the ones to take

633
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 5: out Nicolas Madro Minezuela. And so there you have these

634
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 5: two very confret messages. Yeah.

635
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they're being racially profiled and they're being deported, right,

636
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: that's what you said.

637
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 5: Yes, So there's a couple of things happening, right, Like, yes,

638
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 5: Number one, Cuban Americans are announcing their love was being

639
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 5: rated and detained and deported. The only way you can

640
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 5: be deported back to Cuba is from what I keep

641
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 5: hearing is if you don't have any criminal record. But

642
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 5: I have met people that have been deported back to

643
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 5: the same communist regime that the Republican Party claims to

644
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 5: be kind of saving Americans from. So I have met

645
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 5: Cubans that are literally in Cuba right now. And I

646
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 5: have now met a growing community of Cubans from Miami

647
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 5: that are now in Mexico that have been deported to Mexico.

648
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 5: And when I tell you, they're not Mexican, not Mexican.

649
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 5: And it was one of the wildest scenes I've ever

650
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 5: walked in. So I was in Cancun in October, and

651
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 5: every single day there are literally hundreds of Cubans that

652
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,799
Speaker 5: are being deported from the United States, many of them

653
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,760
Speaker 5: coming from Miami Did County, that are now as we speak,

654
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 5: taking over Cancun. So when I tell you that Cancun

655
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 5: is becoming like the Little Havanah, like what Miami is like,

656
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 5: we know it as Little Havana, Cancun is turning into

657
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 5: Little Havna because there are so many Cubans from Miami

658
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 5: that are starting to settle in Cancun because they have

659
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 5: nowhere else to go, and they must be pissed they're

660
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 5: very pissed. But you know what's interesting. They're pissed, but

661
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 5: this guy, Raoul, he's actually a TikToker. It. Raoul has

662
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 5: become this like Cuban TikToker that's helping all these Cuban

663
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 5: migrants kind of navigate the new Mexican system. And he

664
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 5: told me, he's like, we were always kind of like

665
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 5: removed from this and they finally got us.

666
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 4: Now.

667
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 5: We always thought that nothing would ever happen to us,

668
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 5: and here we are. So that's kind of this like

669
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 5: the nuanced part of this story where like many of

670
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 5: them are realizing and look, some of them do have

671
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 5: criminal records, right, They've they've committed a couple you know,

672
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,240
Speaker 5: they've got in and out of the criminal justice system. However,

673
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 5: they were always immune to him because they're Cuban, right,

674
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 5: And so that's happening. Yeah, So there.

675
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 1: Are Cuban families with multiple people in the family who

676
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: have status, who have relatives who are not in the

677
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: country legally, who are being deported. You were seeing multiple

678
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 1: people like that. So are those people like, we're not

679
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: going to vote for Republicans anymore.

680
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 5: I think it's too really to tell. This is where

681
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 5: I think that Democrats get really cocky, right where they

682
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 5: think that because of these raids, right, that because of

683
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 5: this pain, that that in and of itself means that

684
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 5: the Latino vote is back for them. And I think

685
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 5: we forget the true power of Trump is that when

686
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 5: we least expected, the resentments and the grievances and the

687
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 5: like anti immigrant sentiment like kicks in. And so what

688
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 5: I always go back to is like, whatever made you

689
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 5: vote for Trump wants like how does one undo that? Right?

690
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,800
Speaker 5: And I think in Cuban American community, as in the community,

691
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 5: in the Bronx, as in anywhere we are, there was

692
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 5: something about Trump beyond economics that really resonated with Latinos, right.

693
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 5: And I think because there are so many grievances among us, right,

694
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 5: and because the immigration system in this country is so

695
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 5: messed up. Right, this idea that like we don't want

696
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 5: the next person to have the same thing that we have.

697
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 5: It is a very ugly truth that is part of

698
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 5: our dynamic. And so the only thing that I keep

699
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 5: telling myself is to is to to not you know,

700
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 5: to not get ahead of ourselves. Right. Are they skeptical

701
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 5: of Trump?

702
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 3: Yes?

703
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 5: Are they being led down?

704
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:27,240
Speaker 6: Yes?

705
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 5: Are they now suddenly feeling like immigrants. Yes, does that

706
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 5: mean to vote for Democrats?

707
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 3: Right?

708
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 5: Maybe necessarily? And we don't know in two years what

709
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 5: you know, like trump Ism will look like. But that,

710
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 5: like the ugly sentiment is something that we're not immune to,

711
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,839
Speaker 5: and so I'm always kind of like cautious to make

712
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:44,919
Speaker 5: any big you.

713
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, well, no, that makes sense. The Argentina stuff.

714
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 1: Explain that to us. How does that factor im with

715
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 1: the Kuban population.

716
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 5: The Argentina, the Salvador with with Nabuke. So there's the

717
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 5: you know, one of the things that that Democrats, and

718
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 5: I think we've talked about this before may like one

719
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 5: of the things that Democrats love to do in Miami

720
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 5: Did County before elections is they love to kind of,

721
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,360
Speaker 5: you know, cast Trump as a strong man. Now I

722
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 5: was like, I'll lead you, and it works often. But

723
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 5: they think that by casting Trump as a dictator, that

724
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 5: that in and of itself will sort of cause this

725
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 5: like allergic reaction among Latinos that have fled from these

726
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,879
Speaker 5: sort of authoritained figures themselves, right. But I think where

727
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 5: it gets really complicated is that we Latinas, we have

728
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 5: a very very very complicated relationship with strong men. Strong

729
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 5: men like Malay, strong men like Bukele, and like historically

730
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 5: in the nineteenth century the twentieth century, we've always had

731
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 5: super super nuanced, complicated relationships with strong men, where we

732
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 5: have made to believe that there are certain times when

733
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 5: democracy feels messy and when the economy is down and

734
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 5: when things are violent, that under certain circumstances, strong men

735
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 5: are necessary. On top of that, there's a US history

736
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 5: of intervention throughout Latin America, you know, from Chile to

737
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:07,879
Speaker 5: Ilsavador to Nicaragua, and the United States has which we're

738
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 5: perhaps about to see in Venezuela. The United States has

739
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,760
Speaker 5: intervened in the face of in the name of getting

740
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 5: rid of communism, to support strong men. And so I

741
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 5: say all this because that's why Naibukele continues to be

742
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 5: one of the most popular leaders in Latin America. Right

743
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 5: That's why someone like me Lay may not be popular

744
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 5: to many Americans, but he is in Latin America. That's

745
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:32,439
Speaker 5: why Chilea just selected a right wing president three days ago,

746
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 5: you know. And so so that message doesn't always like

747
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 5: kind of land the way that you know, democrats think

748
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 5: it does. And I think that example that we're about

749
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,280
Speaker 5: to see in Minnezuela. That's where things get super super

750
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 5: complicated and interesting with Latino's.

751
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 1: So Cuban's most complicated for any number of reasons, just

752
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:57,760
Speaker 1: a very different vibe from other Latino voters. Let's talk

753
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: about Mexican voters, because I feel like Mexican voters, Mexican Americans,

754
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 1: what's happening there? And I also have been surprised Trump

755
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 1: hasn't been more antagonistic to Mexico. Haven't you been a

756
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 1: little surprised about that, because like he hates He's like

757
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 1: wants to go to world with Canada, but it's sort

758
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: of ignored Mexico.

759
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 5: It feels like, yeah, I mean he said mostly at

760
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 5: the beginning, right, like labeling the cartels as these terrorist figures.

761
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 5: Like I think at the beginning he was more aggressive.

762
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 5: But I think there's something about Shanebaum that like kind

763
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 5: of scares him. And I think she's done a very

764
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 5: good job, very good job at kind of like you know,

765
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 5: defending herself and drawing her own like boundaries. Look, we

766
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 5: know that Trump loves a popular figure, and Galliasm is

767
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 5: a very popular figure. The same way that at the

768
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,359
Speaker 5: end of the day Zora Mandani was able to court him.

769
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 5: I think it's a similar dynamic with Mexico, where she's like,

770
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 5: all right, people love this woman, so let me not

771
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 5: like go too far with the Mexican American voter. As

772
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 5: with every other vote, I think there were a lot

773
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 5: of people that didn't show up to the election, right Like,

774
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 5: so much of this right worship obviously happened, but the

775
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 5: other part of the story is that people were not

776
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 5: mobilized enough to vote for a Democratic party that, in

777
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:13,720
Speaker 5: their eyes, many Mexicans and Salvadorians and Guatemalans like believe

778
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 5: that at some point the Democratic Party would defend them

779
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 5: right in and perhaps in a more public way. And

780
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 5: so I think there's a lot of people that didn't

781
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 5: show up to vote. And I think what you're seeing now,

782
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:27,760
Speaker 5: I mean, from coast to coast, is this like growing solidarity,

783
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 5: this like awakening of masses of people that are now

784
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 5: like politically awakened again and again. It does not mean

785
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:37,839
Speaker 5: that it's to vote for for Democrats, but it does

786
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 5: mean that it is like that something is happening. And

787
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 5: I see that. I see that everywhere, and I think

788
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 5: that's kind of what was missing for many years in

789
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 5: my kind of opinion that we were losing. Now, this

790
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 5: Latino community became very fractured and very divided, and now

791
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 5: there's like a sense of solidarity that hasn't always been there.

792
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 5: And perhaps it took someone like Trump to to remind.

793
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: People some of the family separation that we saw in

794
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: the first Trump administration. We're seeing much much worse than that.

795
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 1: This time, children deported at six. Talk to me just

796
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,320
Speaker 1: about some of that carnage. What you're hearing talking to people,

797
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 1: et cetera.

798
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 5: It's exactly what we experienced in twenty eighteen under zero tolerance.

799
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 5: It's just happening literally in communities and the neighborhoods across

800
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 5: the country every single day. And it's the same scene.

801
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 5: I've seen it in courthouses in Abaso. I've seen it

802
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 5: here in Brooklyn, where it's you know, these ice agents

803
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 5: that are separating detaining family members, moms or dads. These

804
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 5: members are now being detained. And I think what I

805
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 5: keep hearing that is painful is this uncertainty that you

806
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 5: don't know how long you're going to be detained, You

807
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 5: don't even know where you're going to be deported too,

808
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 5: and that uncertainty I think is really really eating away

809
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 5: at people, and the same objective that they had in

810
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 5: twenty eighteen they're trying to do right now, which is

811
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 5: inflict so much pain and so much uncertainty that at

812
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 5: the end of the day you decide that self deportation

813
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 5: is the best decision because you can't take it anymore.

814
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 5: Is I think it's kind of what's what's happening behind

815
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 5: the scene where there are literally like thousands of families

816
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 5: that are that are wrestling with that decision right like,

817
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 5: is this uncertainty worth it now? Is it worth it?

818
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 5: I mean even in my building right now, I won't

819
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 5: even say where I am one of the women that

820
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 5: works here, Like her mom isn't documented, and every single

821
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 5: day right there, every single day we talk, She's like,

822
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:27,359
Speaker 5: I don't know if it's worth it anymore. I don't

823
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 5: know if it's worth it anymore. So it's this like

824
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 5: anxiety that is just weighing on people. We've been dealing

825
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 5: with this, like, of course it's more exacerbated under Trump.

826
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 5: This has been going on for like twenty plus years now.

827
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 5: If people just like devoting their lives and careers and

828
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 5: they're to this idea the one day they would be

829
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 5: relieved from this. All of this is culminating into I

830
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,439
Speaker 5: think countless families that are like how much longer can

831
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 5: I take it? Like truly, Like what does dignity mean today?

832
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 5: And I think part of the immigration movement is there

833
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,280
Speaker 5: to do its job, which is like, you guys deserve

834
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 5: to be here and as the slogan goes, here to stay.

835
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 5: But I also think there's something there's some type of

836
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 5: empowerment and people also deciding like there may be a

837
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 5: better life out there, right, like maybe what I'm looking

838
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,439
Speaker 5: for in the US can be found elsewhere, And that

839
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 5: movement is happening, you know this, like reverse migration, Like

840
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:16,240
Speaker 5: that's definitely growing.

841
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's wild, and that's problematic for any number of

842
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: reasons for American government.

843
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,720
Speaker 5: It is like the long term implication of that is

844
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 5: is something that I don't think we can wrap our

845
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 5: heads around. You know what it means for generations of

846
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,839
Speaker 5: immigrants and their family members to to kind of like

847
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,919
Speaker 5: let go of what has always been such a core

848
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 5: part of this country. Like you know, my mom lives

849
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 5: in Madrid, my dad lives in Miami, But even when

850
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 5: I go visit my mom, I just found out a

851
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 5: couple of months ago that there is a group of

852
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 5: Dreamers that are self deporting to Madrid, and so I

853
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 5: met them for Thanksgiving. I had dinner with them and

854
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,919
Speaker 5: we were having dinner and one woman had just self

855
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,359
Speaker 5: deported from Mexico. She just got to and she had

856
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,879
Speaker 5: never been there. Another woman self deported during Trump's first administration.

857
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 5: And it was this kind of beautiful and powerful and

858
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 5: like sad moment where this one woman told her and said,

859
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 5: for the first time ever, You're going to be able

860
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 5: to relax, and that's a feeling that you have never

861
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:17,359
Speaker 5: felt in like twenty years. I can see that to you.

862
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 5: You'll be able to like breathe. And she said when

863
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 5: I first felt that, she was like, I broke down

864
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:23,800
Speaker 5: for like a whole month because I hadn't been able

865
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 5: to just like breathe in the United States in the

866
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 5: thirty years. There's something to.

867
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 1: That thank you, thank you saying you sayk you pawa.

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Speaker 5: Thank you for all this stuff.

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Speaker 1: No moment, Jesse Cannon Molly.

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Speaker 2: Earlier in the show, we were talking about how the

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00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 2: Trump White House keeps making it so that the government

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00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:50,439
Speaker 2: is not on the hook with as much of their

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00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 2: budget and putting the burden back on the people. And

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00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 2: that is what we were seeing with these inactions in

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00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 2: the House with the ACA funding. And there's a lot

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00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 2: of GOP congressman if we're pretty pissed about this.

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00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 1: So I think it's worth a lot of what's happening

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00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 1: here is Mike Johnson is quite bad at his job,

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00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: you don't like, really fucking bad at what he does.

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00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 1: And these ACA tax benefits are about to expire and

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00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: people are going to be fucked right. They're not going

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00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: to be able to get their healthcare. It's going to

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00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:27,879
Speaker 1: be fifty percent or seventy percent more expensive, and it's

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00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 1: real bad for any number of reasons.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 1: So here's the thing which I think is so important

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00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 1: here is that they don't have any plan. I don't

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00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,879
Speaker 1: get what the move here is, right, So you have

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00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:47,840
Speaker 1: these moderates complaining about it because they know that this

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00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 1: is going to mess them up. Right, They're not going

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00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,839
Speaker 1: to be able to get reelected, and so maybe like

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00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 1: they come up with something. Jefferies has this clean cr

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00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 1: that has an expansion of the credits, and it's a

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00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: three year expansion. You know, it's not impossible that something

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00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 1: happens there I think also worth watching, Like we are

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00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 1: hurtling towards the government shutdown and that could still really happen.

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00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 1: So there's a lot going on here, all bad. That's

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00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: Thursday and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics

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00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 1: make sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast,

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00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,920
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

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00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.