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Speaker 1: Hello, Mary Cloude.

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Speaker 2: But Jackie's not answering the phone, so you're college.

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Speaker 1: That's why I was phoning. I know this sounds totally paranoid,

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Speaker 1: but do you think has Jackie been avoiding my calls?

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Speaker 2: She's avoiding your calls?

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Speaker 1: Why?

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Speaker 2: She has life and children and maybe she wants to

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Speaker 2: spend a few minutes.

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Speaker 3: Well, she gives her children.

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Speaker 4: I'm supposed to talk to you.

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Speaker 1: You don't think this is like some kind of cry

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Speaker 1: for help that she's kind of like isolating and everything. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: I just had a couple questions that I was going

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Speaker 1: to ask Jackie, but maybe since you guys are such

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Speaker 1: good friends, maybe you can answer them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's literally four o three I need to leave,

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Speaker 3: So this is okay.

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Speaker 1: I was just going through my bar mitzvah rs vps

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Speaker 1: and I noticed that Jackie did not attend.

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Speaker 2: Do you know why did you read your barmst phone

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Speaker 2: the same Saturday as a very popular kid and everyone

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Speaker 2: went to his yes steadiers Eric Leidenheim.

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Speaker 3: Where she was?

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Speaker 1: Well, I guess at least she was at Temple from

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Speaker 1: Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight Today's episode.

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Speaker 1: Justine right after the break, This is me, this is

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Speaker 1: your daddy.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I love you more than anything.

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Speaker 4: Okay, You're the.

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Speaker 2: Greatest thing, says Slice Bread. You're the greatest thing since

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Speaker 2: can beer.

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Speaker 1: In two thousand and seven, Gary recorded himself onto a

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Speaker 1: series of dictaphone cassettes, which he gave to his daughter Justine.

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Speaker 1: Ever since Justine was a kid, he's worked as a

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Speaker 1: mattress salesman. But he'd always tell Justine's stories about the

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Speaker 1: wildlife he once led.

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Speaker 3: And I kept saying to him, like, you need to

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Speaker 3: write a memoir, Like you can't just end your life

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Speaker 3: as a mattress salesman.

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Speaker 1: Gary said there was no way he could write a memoir.

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Speaker 1: He'd get too caught up in every little detail, and

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Speaker 1: titles can be such a hassle. What would he even

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Speaker 1: name it?

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Speaker 3: And he goes, but I'll compromise. What if I'd just

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Speaker 3: tell my life story into these tapes and you can

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Speaker 3: have them.

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Speaker 1: Gary's life, as he tells it, is one full of heroism, debauchery,

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Speaker 1: and brushes with fame.

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Speaker 3: He got into Georgetown from high school.

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Speaker 2: My room was the same room that President Bill Clinton

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Speaker 2: had when he was a freshman.

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Speaker 3: But then he got there and realized it was all bullshit,

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Speaker 3: dropped out.

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Speaker 2: Of Georktown after getting straight a's the first semester there, was.

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Speaker 3: Bored, so he transferred to Antioch.

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Speaker 1: At Antioch in nineteen sixty nine, Gary fell in with

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Speaker 1: a revolutionary crowd and began protesting Vietnam in a revolutionary way.

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Speaker 3: Robbing banks and giving the money to anti war causes,

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Speaker 3: and got in legal trouble because of that stuff. I

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Speaker 3: mean seven years in the federal penitentiary. He says.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to give you the actual story of just

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Speaker 2: say it with flowers, banded bank rapper. The only reason

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Speaker 2: why I called that because the newspapers called.

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Speaker 1: Gary says, sure he was a bank robber, but he

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Speaker 1: never used a gun. Instead, he'd walk into the bank

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Speaker 1: with just a bouquet of flowers and use hypnosis on

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Speaker 1: the teller to get what he wanted, like.

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Speaker 3: Using his powers of persuasion, which supposedly he learned on

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Speaker 3: an ashram.

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Speaker 1: Gary says he broke out of prison, auditioned for the

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Speaker 1: game show Jeopardy, got on, won the game, and then

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Speaker 1: got arrested. On the flight back home.

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Speaker 2: I went seventeen thousand dollars, so I kicked ass and

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Speaker 2: I want to fucking at the La fucking airport and

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Speaker 2: they fucking drive me off the plane.

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Speaker 1: Once he was back in prison, Gary says he won

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Speaker 1: a prison bridge tournament with his partner H. R. Haldeman.

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Speaker 2: Was HR. Haldeman, who was the chief of staff of

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Speaker 2: the Nixon Weisshause, the second most powerful man of his country.

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Speaker 2: Labor Day bridge tournament in September of nineteen seventy six

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Speaker 2: at Lompoke Federal Penitentiary.

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Speaker 1: The tapes are filled with hour after hour of stories

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Speaker 1: like this.

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Speaker 2: Later on, I lived in the cave, I went to

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Speaker 2: spy school, and I bought a horse.

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Speaker 1: Gary stories were out there, but he had this magical

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Speaker 1: quality that made anything seem possible. He could get justine

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Speaker 1: tickets for sold out concerts, appointments with doctors who were

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Speaker 1: booked solid.

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Speaker 3: She idolized her dad, and all my friends knew how

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Speaker 3: cool he was. I was always talking about my dad.

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Speaker 3: It's so silly. I have this one memory of when

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Speaker 3: I was in high school. So I was dreaming, like

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Speaker 3: from my dad's point of view, that he was driving

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Speaker 3: over a bridge, like on accident. And I was awakened

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Speaker 3: from that dream by my dad calling me on my

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Speaker 3: cell phone at like two in the morning and I

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Speaker 3: picked it up and he had a dream that I

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Speaker 3: was dying, and I couldn't wait to tell my friends

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Speaker 3: because it was just like, we have this cosmic connection,

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Speaker 3: me and my dad.

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Speaker 1: But there are other things about Gary that, looking back

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Speaker 1: on as an adult, Justine has a hard time reconciling

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Speaker 1: with the dad she's so adored. For one, they're cosmic connection.

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Speaker 1: Gary would often tell Justine that the two of them

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Speaker 1: were different than everyone else, different than her mom, who

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Speaker 1: divorced Gary when Justine was only three, and different from

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Speaker 1: her brother Stephen. She and Gary were a gang of two.

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Speaker 3: We are smarter, we get it. We were different from them.

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Speaker 3: And then when I became a mother, I just felt like,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's kind of inexcusable. I was just able

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Speaker 3: to zoom out a little bit and see some of

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Speaker 3: the inappropriateness of things. He is an addict, and sometimes

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Speaker 3: he would be completely wasted driving us, which was like

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Speaker 3: scary for me. I remember crying a lot in the backseat.

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Speaker 3: We would go to restaurants and there were times when

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Speaker 3: the patrons of the restaurants would call the police because

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Speaker 3: they were concerned about our welfare and I would be

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Speaker 3: like making jokes to the waitress to try to like

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Speaker 3: diffuse the situte. Like he would be really embarrassing and

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Speaker 3: obviously drunk, and I would say, hey, can we get

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Speaker 3: the guy some milk? You know, like just a nine

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Speaker 3: year old trying the smooth things over.

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Speaker 1: If the kids needed a babysitter, Gary would find the

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Speaker 1: neighborhood teenager and pay them in marijuana. Other times he'd

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Speaker 1: leave the kids to their own devices. Justine and her

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Speaker 1: brother Stephen would wander over to the Lowe's hardware store

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Speaker 1: beside their apartment complex and occupy themselves for hours playing

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Speaker 1: hide and seek among the appliances. Justine says Gary would

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Speaker 1: often drop her off at elementary school with her hair

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Speaker 1: unbrushed and a half eaten Big Mac wrapped in tinfoil

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Speaker 1: for lunch, and when middle school rolled around.

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Speaker 3: He would like show up drunk in the cafeteria during

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Speaker 3: lunchtime to come talk to me in.

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Speaker 1: Did you at this point did your friends still think

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Speaker 1: that he was cool?

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Speaker 3: Yep?

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Speaker 1: What was it that made them feel that way?

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Speaker 3: He would bring me money, which was you know cool?

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Speaker 3: When you're in seventh grade, he would crack a lot

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Speaker 3: of like inappropriate jokes like he he would talk about

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Speaker 3: sex like there are absolutely no boundaries in terms of

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Speaker 3: what he felt was appropriate for kids. He just treated

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Speaker 3: us like adults.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure I'm a good parent. I'm sorry for

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Speaker 2: everything I've done wrong. I'm sorry for well living the

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Speaker 2: incredible lifestyle I live.

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Speaker 1: At this point in her life, Justine knows her dad

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Speaker 1: can be manipulative. She knows he's an addict, but she

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Speaker 1: still wants to believe that's not all he is. A

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Speaker 1: Part of her holds to that childhood belief that her

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Speaker 1: father's life truly was the stuff of memoirs. Those stories

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Speaker 1: feel like her inheritance. Yet at thirty one, she's forced

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Speaker 1: to ask herself, are those unbelievable stories about robbing banks

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Speaker 1: and winning Jeopardy so unbelievable because they're simply not to

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Speaker 1: be believed.

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Speaker 3: As I get older and my childhood begins to feel

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Speaker 3: more and more alarming to me, like I realize that

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Speaker 3: I have to know what was true, Like I have

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Speaker 3: to know this is my dad we're talking about, and

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Speaker 3: if none of it's true, then that's completely insane and

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Speaker 3: I need to reevaluate everything. You know, if he's telling

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Speaker 3: these same lies in great detail, over and over, like

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Speaker 3: he's a fraud and a pathological liar. I just want

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Speaker 3: to I need to know that I started to discover

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Speaker 3: little things that he said that weren't so true, Like

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Speaker 3: there have been so many times when he's told me

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Speaker 3: that he's dying. I thought that he would never even

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Speaker 3: see me graduate high school, like I always have thought he.

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Speaker 1: Was dying after a lifetime of drug use and alcoholism.

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Speaker 1: Gary is in consistently poor health. It's just not clear

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Speaker 1: exactly how poor. Since he's been saying that he's dying

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Speaker 1: for over a decade, the prognosis is murky, like Justine's

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Speaker 1: fairly certain he does have hepatitis.

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Speaker 3: Oh, diabetes too, he got diabetes and that you like, Yes,

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Speaker 3: they had to like remove a toe, you know.

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Speaker 1: And you've seen you've seen this, uh this missing toe.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I was there in the hospital.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry to have to ask that.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I haven't seen the toe, but I've seen

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Speaker 3: like the lack of a toe.

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Speaker 1: I've seen the lack of a toe. Okay, Yes, Gary

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Speaker 1: stuck to the same stories, often verbatim, for decades. So

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Speaker 1: at this point Justine doesn't feel like sitting down with

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Speaker 1: him to re examine, and requestion will yield new results.

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Speaker 1: She needs a neutral outsider to train an objective eye

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Speaker 1: onto Gary's stories and finally offer some clarity. And what

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Speaker 1: and what do you? What do you want me? You

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Speaker 1: want me to bring my powers of fact checking and

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Speaker 1: research to bear.

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Speaker 3: Or yes, you know, listen to the tapes. Maybe try

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Speaker 3: and pull out a couple of claims that you think

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Speaker 3: could be verifiable one way or the other. Yeah, start simple.

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Speaker 3: Did he go to Georgetown?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 3: Start there? Yeah, and then just see what we can

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Speaker 3: verify and what we.

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Speaker 1: Can't after the break the facts.

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Speaker 2: Listen, I'm not making this shit up. I don't have to.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry.

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Speaker 2: These tapes sometimes are incoherent, and I'm sober, I'm half drunk,

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Speaker 2: I'm totally drunk. But it's the real daddy.

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Speaker 1: It's the real meat, I must confess. As I begin

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Speaker 1: looking into Gary stories, I expect to quickly discover that

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Speaker 1: all of his stories are lies. I've met plenty of

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Speaker 1: Gary's in bars, on greyhound buses, and even at a

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Speaker 1: few public radio conventions, charming liars who lie to self

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Speaker 1: aggrandize or for no discernible reason at all. But as

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Speaker 1: I start the process of fact checking disproving Gary unequivocally

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Speaker 1: turns out to be more difficult than expected. I keep

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Speaker 1: phoning and emailing Georgetown, but no one gets back to me.

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Speaker 1: I look through an old Jeopardy archive, but it only

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Speaker 1: goes back to nineteen eighty five, years after Gary would

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Speaker 1: have been on the show. And while I do discover

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Speaker 1: that H. R. Haldeman was an inmate at Lompoke Federal

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Speaker 1: Penitentiary on the dates Gary said, I can find no

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Speaker 1: record of a Labor Day prison bridge tournament. Finally, though,

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Speaker 1: I alight upon one small claim I can weigh in

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Speaker 1: on with confidence. So I phoned Justine with the news scared.

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Speaker 1: Does it feel like stuff is getting real?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Is that okay?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? It's about time something got real.

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Speaker 2: Now the most underrated man on the history of the world.

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Speaker 2: Just so you know, a band called Buffalo Springfield has

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Speaker 2: Neil Young in it. Also Richie Fury, by the way,

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Speaker 2: who was a friend of mine in Yellow Springs, Ohio.

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Speaker 1: Had Gary been friends with a member of Buffalo Springfield.

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Speaker 1: I'd gone to Fire's website and filled out a contact

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Speaker 1: for him that said it was for all inquiries. My inquiry,

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Speaker 1: I explained, was that I was trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: whether someone's dad was a pathological liar, and so might

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Speaker 1: mister Fiura be able to tell me if he remembered

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Speaker 1: hanging out with a man named Gary in Yellow Springs,

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Speaker 1: Ohio in the early nineteen seventies. The next day, I

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Speaker 1: got an email back from Richie Fire's manager David. He

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Speaker 1: said that Richie left Yellow Springs in nineteen sixty four

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Speaker 1: and does not recognize the name, so that that came

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Speaker 1: back negative.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I'm really happy right now.

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Speaker 3: Really? Why?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess it's the clarity. Wow, that's one. I

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Speaker 4: feel a little bit lighter for some.

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Speaker 1: Reason, and like, Okay, learning your father is a liar

245
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Speaker 1: is never good news, but for just it's better than

246
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Speaker 1: the years of not knowing. To misquote the most underrated

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Speaker 1: band in history. Something's happening here and what it is

248
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Speaker 1: is becoming increasingly clear.

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Speaker 4: The clouds are opening up a little.

250
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Speaker 1: Your dad did not know one of the members of

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Speaker 1: Buffalo Springfield.

252
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Speaker 4: And so the cloud's part And now I feel lighter.

253
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Speaker 1: It's great Buffalo Springfield is still bringing joy and meaning

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Speaker 1: to people. Justine mentions another musician story I should look into.

255
00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,840
Speaker 1: There's a local celebrity blues guitarist named Jean Deear, who

256
00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:47,200
Speaker 1: Gary always claimed to have discovered. They were great friends.

257
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Speaker 1: Gary said, until a big falling out.

258
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Speaker 2: Believe me, Christine, I've heard from so many people that

259
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Speaker 2: I'm an asshole for ever putting any money into Jean Dear.

260
00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,480
Speaker 2: I've sponsored him. I found him, pay for dental bills,

261
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,320
Speaker 2: pay for home bills, fight it so much for him.

262
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,040
Speaker 2: He just thinks he's God because he can play guitar.

263
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Speaker 4: Well, he may be a good person to contact. I'm sure.

264
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Speaker 4: I'm sure he's got information and stories.

265
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Speaker 5: I would say as far as discovering me, I'd have

266
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Speaker 5: to give him a thumbs up on that.

267
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Speaker 1: This is Jean Dear, and gen Deere says Gary is

268
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Speaker 1: telling the truth. Back when Jeane was twenty three years old,

269
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,760
Speaker 1: he and his band were playing a small Indianapolis bar

270
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Speaker 1: one night when Gary just walked up to him.

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Speaker 5: I'm on the stage. He got a fool stick under

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Speaker 5: his arm, a drink in that hand, and then the

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00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,520
Speaker 5: other hand he's handed me for money. He goes, take this,

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Speaker 5: take this. I'm his first time I re saw him,

275
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,040
Speaker 5: said take this. I want to record you guys. I

276
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Speaker 5: want to make you famous.

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Speaker 1: Gary financed and produced Jene's first album, and forty years on,

278
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Speaker 1: Gene is still making a living from his music alone,

279
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,320
Speaker 1: all thanks to Gary, and Jane says. If there was

280
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,200
Speaker 1: any drama in their friendship, it played out on Gary's

281
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:10,800
Speaker 1: side alone.

282
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Speaker 5: I hold it and in very high regard.

283
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Speaker 1: I hadn't expected Gary's story about Gene to be true,

284
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,320
Speaker 1: and as I continue in my research, more of my

285
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:30,280
Speaker 1: expectations are upended. Hello, Hey, justin Hi, So a couple

286
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,920
Speaker 1: orders of business on the docket. I'd finally gotten an

287
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:37,280
Speaker 1: email back from the communications office at Georgetown, confirmed by

288
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:41,000
Speaker 1: our records. Said the email, Gary attended Georgetown in fall

289
00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:46,200
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eight, And yet another surprise. Spend some time

290
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:52,080
Speaker 1: looking into this say It with Flowers bandit. This is

291
00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,200
Speaker 1: what I was able to find. There was a robber.

292
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,760
Speaker 1: I discovered several articles in a small Washington paper called

293
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:02,200
Speaker 1: the Bellingham Herald, which covered the search for a say

294
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,520
Speaker 1: It with Flowers bank robber. The robber had come into

295
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,240
Speaker 1: a local bank wearing sunglasses, a pea coat, and a

296
00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,280
Speaker 1: stocking cab covering his hair. He stole eight hundred and

297
00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,879
Speaker 1: forty eight dollars and was never caught. There doesn't seem

298
00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,680
Speaker 1: to have been any hypnosis though, and the robber was armed,

299
00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:21,520
Speaker 1: which is a significant departure from Gary's telling, But all

300
00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,719
Speaker 1: the other details line up. The year is right, nineteen

301
00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,520
Speaker 1: seventy four, and the robber was Gary's age and Gary's height,

302
00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:33,399
Speaker 1: and he'd been carrying a bundle of white carnations, just

303
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:38,879
Speaker 1: like Gary always said. Here's another telling detail. Have you

304
00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:40,560
Speaker 1: ever known your father to wear a beard?

305
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:42,400
Speaker 4: Always?

306
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:44,840
Speaker 1: What color would you describe as beard?

307
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,400
Speaker 4: As being pictures I've seen from like the eighties where

308
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:52,720
Speaker 4: he had a very full, long, disgusting beard. It was

309
00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,479
Speaker 4: kind of like a reddish brown, but like growing up,

310
00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:57,199
Speaker 4: you know, he would keep it closer to the face

311
00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:57,840
Speaker 4: so then it.

312
00:17:57,800 --> 00:17:58,439
Speaker 3: Was like darker.

313
00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,000
Speaker 1: Well, according to this article, bank personnel said he had

314
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,880
Speaker 1: quote British type reddish colored whiskers with about a five

315
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:06,560
Speaker 1: day growth.

316
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,520
Speaker 4: Like for me, this corroborates, like I feel like it

317
00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,560
Speaker 4: was true.

318
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,399
Speaker 1: I mean, look like, is it not possible that he

319
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:21,320
Speaker 1: read about this bandit who has never caught and took

320
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,280
Speaker 1: credit for him. Maybe at the time. The reason I

321
00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,960
Speaker 1: sound skeptical is because I am. The job I've been

322
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,919
Speaker 1: handed was to fact check, to allow the facts to

323
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,200
Speaker 1: speak for themselves, But over the course of my research

324
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,879
Speaker 1: something kept eating at me. I'm going to play something

325
00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,720
Speaker 1: for you from my first conversation with Justine that initially

326
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:43,520
Speaker 1: I wasn't going to include.

327
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Speaker 3: So this part, if it could please just remain off

328
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Speaker 3: the record.

329
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:49,920
Speaker 1: Sure it's like really important, okay.

330
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,439
Speaker 3: But that might like might give you some insight into well.

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00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,800
Speaker 1: Originally this wasn't something Justine wanted to make public. She

332
00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:01,520
Speaker 1: since reconsidered, so I'm sharing it with her. Permisis. When

333
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:05,080
Speaker 1: she was very young, around seven years old, Justine says

334
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:06,480
Speaker 1: her father told her a secret.

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00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,760
Speaker 3: He was like drunk and crying to me when I

336
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,840
Speaker 3: was younger, and he told me this, And he said

337
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,879
Speaker 3: to me that if I ever tell anyone that he

338
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:20,640
Speaker 3: would wring my neck in public. When he met my mom,

339
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,959
Speaker 3: she was pregnant with my brother, and my brother doesn't

340
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,720
Speaker 3: know that he like my brother doesn't know that he

341
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:29,160
Speaker 3: doesn't know who his dad.

342
00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:33,280
Speaker 1: Is, that is, Stephen doesn't know that Gary is not

343
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:34,680
Speaker 1: his biological father.

344
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:41,480
Speaker 3: Like according to the public knowledge would be that my

345
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:44,960
Speaker 3: brother and I are siblings from my mom and dad,

346
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,720
Speaker 3: that we are their two children. But the truth is only.

347
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,840
Speaker 1: I am after his drunken confession. Gary never brought up

348
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,639
Speaker 1: Stephen's paternity again, and until Justine mentioned it to me,

349
00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,520
Speaker 1: neither a. She she was terrified by her dad's threat,

350
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 1: so all the way into adulthood, she never told anyone,

351
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:04,680
Speaker 1: not even her mom.

352
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,600
Speaker 3: And so my mom doesn't know that I know. Nobody

353
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,800
Speaker 3: knows that I know. And it's like kind of a

354
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 3: painful thing because I feel like my brother should know.

355
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,119
Speaker 3: But I just keep, you know, I try not to

356
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:16,719
Speaker 3: think about it.

357
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,880
Speaker 1: And so the secret made a silent home inside her head,

358
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:25,159
Speaker 1: becoming a wedge between her and Stephen. But when Justine

359
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,920
Speaker 1: first laid all this out for me, I was incredulous,

360
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,840
Speaker 1: you know, given the fact that, like there's a lot

361
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,240
Speaker 1: of doubts surrounding the veracity of the things that your

362
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:37,160
Speaker 1: dad has told you. Have you ever questioned whether that

363
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:38,040
Speaker 1: was that was the truth?

364
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 3: WHOA, No, I never have.

365
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,720
Speaker 1: I was thrown by Justine's reaction. If everything her father

366
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,920
Speaker 1: had ever told her was suspect, why wasn't this story

367
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 1: about Stephen's paternity suspect too, especially since it seemed to

368
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,520
Speaker 1: belie an agenda. I mean, you're saying that he had

369
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,159
Speaker 1: all these techniques for like, you know, grouping yar you

370
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,480
Speaker 1: two together against the world and everyone. I mean, that

371
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,199
Speaker 1: seems to fit in with that.

372
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's this is true. So there are a couple

373
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 3: of reasons why I think I never questioned it.

374
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,120
Speaker 1: For one, Stephen is pale with bright red hair. Well

375
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:18,680
Speaker 1: Gary is dark complexion with dark hair. Plus garyot also

376
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,200
Speaker 1: revealed a secret about a cousin's paternity, which did turn

377
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 1: out to be true. So from Justine's perspective, in the

378
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:30,640
Speaker 1: secret paternity department, Gary was batting a thousand. But from

379
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 1: my perspective, none of that is definitive. So as I

380
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:38,160
Speaker 1: updated Justine on Buffalo, Springfield and Georgetown and the say

381
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,159
Speaker 1: It with Flowers bandit, I continue to obsess over the

382
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,000
Speaker 1: story of her brother, Stephen's paternity. You have any further

383
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,919
Speaker 1: thoughts about the business with your brother? Gary had saddled

384
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 1: six year old Justine with an albatross of shame and

385
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,200
Speaker 1: secrecy that adult Justine still couldn't laid to rest.

386
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:58,440
Speaker 4: All of these couple decades, it's been like, number one,

387
00:21:58,720 --> 00:21:59,440
Speaker 4: do not do that.

388
00:21:59,640 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 3: What's work?

389
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,879
Speaker 1: The secret she'd been entrusted with maybe wasn't even true,

390
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:09,440
Speaker 1: So to me, proving it false would relieve a huge burden. Plus,

391
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,360
Speaker 1: unlike some of Gary's other stories, there wasn't space for ambiguity.

392
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,359
Speaker 1: He either was Stephen's dad or he wasn't, so proving

393
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:21,120
Speaker 1: the truth about Stephen's paternity would inevitably shed light onto

394
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:32,360
Speaker 1: everything else. Stephen's paternity was the master key. I ask

395
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,200
Speaker 1: Justine if she's ever considered talking to her mom about it,

396
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,880
Speaker 1: to see if the story is true. It's a new

397
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:42,160
Speaker 1: idea for Justine, one that takes time to process. Until now.

398
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 1: She's always assumed she'd keep the secret her whole life,

399
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 1: But I keep nudging her. Have you continued to think about,

400
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,920
Speaker 1: like talking with your mother? In February, Justine absolutely did

401
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:54,160
Speaker 1: not want to talk to her mom.

402
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 4: It's really not my place.

403
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,439
Speaker 1: But in March she was leaning towards maybe talking to

404
00:22:59,440 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 1: her mom.

405
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 4: You know, I'm an adult now, so it's not like

406
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 4: I could get in trouble for bringing it up to her.

407
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 1: In April, though, she was back to not wanting to

408
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 1: talk to her mom.

409
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 4: I don't want to devastate her unveiling a secret that

410
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 4: she's been trying to keep from me, her whole life,

411
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,400
Speaker 4: from everyone.

412
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,919
Speaker 1: But then three months after our first conversation, Justine realizes

413
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 1: there might be a workaround a way to fact check

414
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,400
Speaker 1: her father's story about Stephen's paternity without confronting her mother.

415
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,159
Speaker 1: In reevaluating her past, A dormant memory is rattled loose

416
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 1: years ago conversation that took place at her mom's house

417
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 1: with her cousin Rihanna.

418
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 4: She had said something to me about Stephen's real dad.

419
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 4: I think I did block that out. I am really

420
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 4: honestly just now remembering that this happened. I think we

421
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 4: were looking through old photo albums that she had brought over,

422
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 4: Like I think maybe there was a picture of him

423
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 4: in this photo album. She was like, and this is,

424
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 4: you know, Stephen's real dad. Really don't remember many details

425
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,479
Speaker 4: about that conversation other than that and I and I

426
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 4: was kind of uncomfortable, and I was like, yeah, yeah,

427
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,719
Speaker 4: you know, like, oh, okay, cool, next picture.

428
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 1: Huh.

429
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:25,120
Speaker 4: I can ask her about it if you want. Hello, Hey, hey,

430
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 4: it's just doing.

431
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: Justine told Rihanna she wanted to ask her something concerning

432
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 1: their family history.

433
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 4: Has to do with Stephen. Do you know what I'm

434
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 4: talking about? I'm bosing what you're talking about. You and

435
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 4: told me, am, okay. So when I was a lot younger,

436
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 4: like seven or eight. My dad told me that he's

437
00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 4: not actually Stephen's dad. Correct. Okay, So when you say correct,

438
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:19,640
Speaker 4: what does that mean? I mean that he's not. I

439
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 4: was told to keep my mouth shut, so was I Yeah?

440
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 3: Yeah?

441
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 4: So who told you my parents? Okay?

442
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 1: It seems like it's not just Rihanna who knows the truth.

443
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: Justine's entire extended family does too.

444
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 4: Do you remember the Kirbys or you guys? You probably

445
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 4: you guys weren't around them, were you?

446
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: Rianna and Justine are first cousins, but while Rihanna grew

447
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 1: up with a family called the Kirby's, Justine has no

448
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 1: recollection of any Kirbys. Rihanna explains why, and, in keeping

449
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,880
Speaker 1: with the way she's been explaining everything so far, she's.

450
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 4: Blunt to my knowledge. What happened is your mom was

451
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 4: with one of them, and he didn't want to further

452
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,640
Speaker 4: a relationship with your mom, so when she got pregnant,

453
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 4: she told her he didn't want anything to do with her. WHOA,

454
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 4: and does he know that Stephen exists?

455
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 5: Yes?

456
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 4: Well, I've always just felt like it's not my place

457
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 4: to say anything to anyone if it's not you know, yeah,

458
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 4: I think it would devastate Stephen. I do too.

459
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 1: Stephen is known as the sensitive one in the family.

460
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: Although he's fifteen months older than Justine, he's always felt

461
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: more like a younger brother to her. As a kid,

462
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 1: he was given to outbursts and tears, which made him

463
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 1: an easy target for bullies. Justine remembers leaping to his

464
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 1: defense and shouting down his tormentor. Just like when they

465
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 1: were kids, she still wants to protect her brother. As

466
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: the cousins sit in silence, trying to decide what to

467
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: do next, Rihanna offers to send some pictures of the Kirbies.

468
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 4: I think, get them to you now. Okay, you're on

469
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 4: Wi Fi, right, mm hmm okay, hang I just got

470
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 4: the Oh my god.

471
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there he is Stephen's biological father. He has

472
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: red hair, a red goatee, and is the spitting image

473
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: of Justine's.

474
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:46,439
Speaker 4: Brother that looks like exactly like him. And even in

475
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 4: the one with like that red shirt or whatever, the

476
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 4: orange shirt, that's like a face that he makes. Yes, sorry,

477
00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 4: I'm just like staring. Wow. Well, thank you for the

478
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 4: pictures and the info. I mean, I would definitely.

479
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 3: Call that confirmation.

480
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 1: Once Justine hangs up with Rihanna. She and I talk. Justinekay,

481
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: how are you doing?

482
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 4: I'm okay. It's a little painful to look right at

483
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 4: the situation, just like talking about this secret. I feel

484
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 4: a little bit guilty, so do I.

485
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: Justine in fact checked Gary's paternity claims, not because she

486
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: doubted them, but because I had I'm the one who

487
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: pushed this thing forward, but Gary wasn't lying.

488
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 4: It actually does kind of relieve me to maybe come

489
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 4: to the conclusion that a lot of the stories were

490
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,959
Speaker 4: based in truth. Mm hmm, Like it makes me feel like, Okay,

491
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 4: that's my dad.

492
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: He's an alcoholic, Justine says, and a manipulator, but he's

493
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: not a liar, or at least not a total liar.

494
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: So having arrived at this conclusion, Justine and I decide

495
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: to shelve the mission. She feels like the next step

496
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: would be to talk to her mom, and she's not

497
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: ready to do that yet. About a month later, I

498
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: reach out to Justine to see what's new, and it

499
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: turns out a lot is new.

500
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,479
Speaker 4: So gosh, this has been so crazy.

501
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 6: So my brother came over the week before Stephen had

502
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 6: come over to put up some outside lights, and while

503
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 6: he was there, he asked, Hey, so what's going on

504
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 6: with that whole endeavor to fact check dad?

505
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: And Justine panicked, I was not prepared for this question.

506
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 4: I hadn't thought up, like what was I going to

507
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 4: tell him about why we were shelving it? So he

508
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 4: kind of caught me off guard.

509
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 1: She knew she couldn't say, well, one of the things

510
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: we fact checked was your paternity, and since I didn't

511
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: want you to know that dad isn't your dad, that

512
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: kind of ended things. But instead of just making some excuse,

513
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: she was cryptic and vague, almost like she wanted Stephen

514
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: to keep digging. There's this one thing she told him

515
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: that I realized I wasn't ready to talk about publicly.

516
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 4: And he said, well, you have to tell me, and

517
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 4: I said, look at me, you need to drop it.

518
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 4: You need to just accept the fact right now that

519
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 4: I'm never ever going to tell you, and he goes, am,

520
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 4: I adopted.

521
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:53,719
Speaker 7: So then he goes home and he says to my mom, am,

522
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 7: I adopted, and she's like, where is this com what

523
00:30:58,400 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 7: are you talking about?

524
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 4: But then he asked my mom's parents. She's like going

525
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 4: around asking the whole family and I adopted, and then

526
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 4: he comes back to me and he said, just seeing

527
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 4: I think I want to do like a twenty three

528
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 4: year or something. Everyone's being weird when I asked this question.

529
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: Then, early one morning, while feeding her son oatmeal, Justine

530
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: received a call from her mother, who wanted to know

531
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: why Stephen was asking all these questions.

532
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 4: So I just said to her, like, do you want

533
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 4: to talk about this now? And she paused for a

534
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 4: long time, and she goes, I guess so, And I said,

535
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 4: I've known the big secret since I was six, And

536
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 4: then we just started talking about it.

537
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: They decided to meet for lunch, where they continued to

538
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: talk about it for two hours.

539
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 4: Even the simplest of interactions with her before this, there

540
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 4: was a level of like falsehood. I guess. I just

541
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 4: really felt like I was able to be myself for

542
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 4: the first time.

543
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: Together, Justine and her mom, Lynn went through the whole story.

544
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: Lynn explained how as a teenager, she hooked up with

545
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: a childhood crush, a boy named Brian Kirby that she'd

546
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: been in love with since she was thirteen. While Lynn

547
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,719
Speaker 1: had a curfew in rules set by her parents, Brian

548
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: was a free spirit who could stay out all night.

549
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: Their dates were basically impromptu makeout sessions and Lynn's backyard

550
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: treehouse where she was out of view from her parents,

551
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: And then at seventeen, she got pregnant. Brian ignored her calls.

552
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: Then Gary appeared. Lynn was working at her parents' gas station,

553
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 1: visibly pregnant when one day Gary drove up. The two

554
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 1: of them started flirting, and a few months later Gary proposed.

555
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: He promised Lynn that he would raise the baby as

556
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: his own. Lynn thinks he wanted to be a father

557
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: even more than he wanted her, so when they eventually

558
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: got divorced, Gary panicked that he might lose the kids.

559
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: He threatened Lynn, telling her he'd ever killed if she

560
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 1: ever revealed the truth about Stephen. Lynn says Gary knew

561
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: enough shady people to make it happen. For Lynn, that

562
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: threat was enough to keep her from ever telling a soul.

563
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: She was just as afraid of Gary as Justine was.

564
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: Lynn is always believed that one day she would talk

565
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: to Stephen about it. She just needed to wait until

566
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: Gary was dead so she'd be safe. But with Stephen

567
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: asking so many questions, Justine doesn't think they can afford

568
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: to wait. So what began as a need for Justine

569
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: to know the truth of who her father really is

570
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 1: has become a need for her brother to know the

571
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,959
Speaker 1: truth of who his father really isn't. Justine convinces her

572
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: mother that, despite their fear, they owe it to Stephen,

573
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: and together they devise a plan and set a date.

574
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,959
Speaker 1: And while they know telling Stephen the truth will have consequences,

575
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: what they don't know yet is just how big those

576
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 1: consequences will be.

577
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 2: Okay, let's end this and go on to the next side.

578
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: On next week's Heavyweight Side B. This episode of Heavyweight

579
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: was produced by Senior producer Khalila Holt, along with Stevie Lane,

580
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 1: Mohemy mcgawker, and me Jonathan Goldstein. Special thanks to Emily Condon,

581
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: Alex Bloomberg, Sharon Mashihi, Connie Walker, and Mary Cloude. Bobby

582
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 1: Lord mixed the episode with original music by Christine Fellows,

583
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,439
Speaker 1: John K. Sampson, Ben Aliman, and Bobby Lord. Additional music

584
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: credits can be found on our website Gimbletmedia dot com

585
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: slash Heavyweight. Our theme song is by The weaker Thans

586
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: courtesy of Epitaph Records. Follow us on Twitter at Heavyweight

587
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: or email us at heavyweight at give fletmedia dot com.

588
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: We'll be back next week with Part two and a

589
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: special message from my friend Jackie. Jackie, if you're listening,

590
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: please pick up the phone next week