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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Early bird or fleeing selling the GLAPIHD babysitter charged in

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Speaker 2: an infants murder, caught leaving her airbnb around five a m.

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Speaker 2: Shrouded in darkness. Why I'm Nancy Grace, this is crime stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 3: Well, the Pittsburgh family with newborn twin babies asks a

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Speaker 3: longtime friend to babysit matters take a turn for the worse.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's certainly an understatement.

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Speaker 2: One of the infants is dead, the other injured in

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Speaker 2: the growing area with scratches and swelling. So, knowing that

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Speaker 2: your good friend's children are in danger, why would you

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Speaker 2: try to bail out in the dark of the wee

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Speaker 2: hours of the morning.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen.

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Speaker 4: Arriving back at her airbnb at twelve fifty three am,

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Speaker 4: Nicole Ersey is seen on security video less than five

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Speaker 4: hours later, as she appears to be making a hasty exit,

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Speaker 4: even though she was booked for two more nights at

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Speaker 4: the apartment, Bersey appears to be leaving. Bersy is seen

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Speaker 4: on security video leaving the building at five forty five am.

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Speaker 4: She reaches for her phone and makes a phone call

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Speaker 4: and is standing waiting on the sidewalk. At five forty

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Speaker 4: seven am, Leon Katz is pronounced dead. At five point

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Speaker 4: fifty am, police arrive at the Airbnb and two officers

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Speaker 4: approach Fersy on the sidewalk and quickly take her to

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Speaker 4: the waiting patrol car and transport her to the police headquarters,

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Speaker 4: where she agrees to be questioned without an attorney present.

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Speaker 2: Joining me in allstar panwel makes sense of what we

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Speaker 2: are hearing and what we are learning.

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Speaker 1: We know that the.

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Speaker 2: So called glam glamorous PhDc to a twenty nine who

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Speaker 2: is studying to get her PhD in a derivative of psychology.

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Speaker 2: We know that she also led spin classes at at

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Speaker 2: least one, if not more, cycle centers.

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Speaker 1: What more do we know?

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Speaker 2: We know her dad is a renowned physician practicing at

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Speaker 2: Mount Sinai in New York City. We know that she

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Speaker 2: has many faces, the glad PhD student, the best friend

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Speaker 2: that travels to visit two infant boys.

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Speaker 1: But why in the world.

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Speaker 2: If this is one of your best friends would she

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Speaker 2: try to steal away.

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Speaker 1: In the dark of the wee morning hours.

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Speaker 2: Let's analyze that timeline again, straight out to a panel

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Speaker 2: of experts.

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Speaker 1: First, I'm going to go.

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Speaker 2: To Alexisterschuk crimeonline dot com investigative reporter joining us out

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Speaker 2: of La Alexis, thank you for.

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Speaker 1: Being with us.

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Speaker 2: I want to analyze the timeline versy is spotted.

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Speaker 1: Let me back it up.

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Speaker 2: Back to her Airbnb a few blocks away from the

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Speaker 2: victim's home, the mom, the dad, the two twin infants.

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Speaker 2: That is around one am, just before one a m.

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Speaker 2: Then less than five hours later, in the dark of

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Speaker 2: the wee morning hours, she's beating a hasty retreat five

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Speaker 2: forty five a m. At five forty seven a m.

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Speaker 2: Infant child twin boy, Leon is pronounced dead.

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Speaker 1: So let me understand this.

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Speaker 2: Tell me if I got the timeline correct, Alexis. So

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Speaker 2: she leaves her one of her best friends, Leon's mom,

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Speaker 2: and the dad, the father of the twins at the hospital.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely she leaves them there with Leon with horrific head

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Speaker 2: injuries and the other baby, Ari had genital swelling and scratches.

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Speaker 1: So instead of going back to.

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Speaker 2: The hospital to check on the babies, she tries to leave.

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Speaker 1: She did.

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Speaker 5: Here's the thing it actually she is the one that

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Speaker 5: called nine to one one about the baby, about Leon

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Speaker 5: at eleven fifteen pm. So then the next time you

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Speaker 5: see her is at shortly before one am, so less

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Speaker 5: than two hours she is already back in her airbnb.

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Speaker 5: She's not at the hotel with her friends. She has

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Speaker 5: been friends with the mom for I think almost ten years,

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Speaker 5: very good friends. They've traveled together. She was here babysitting

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Speaker 5: the children. She was trusted enough by the parents to

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Speaker 5: babysit the baby, and so she's back at the airbnb.

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Speaker 5: A few hours later, she goes outside. She hesitates outside

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Speaker 5: the front door, and she takes for about three minutes.

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Speaker 5: She then takes a phone call. At the time that

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Speaker 5: she's on the phone, the baby is reported dead three

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Speaker 5: minutes later. Just three minutes later, least surround her and

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Speaker 5: take her into custody. So they must have been absolutely

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Speaker 5: waiting outside, waiting to hear, watching her worry that she

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Speaker 5: was going to flee, knowing that this wasn't her regular

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Speaker 5: home was in airbnbb. She lives in San Diego, California,

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Speaker 5: so they were waiting for her for this exact reason.

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Speaker 2: I'm very very curious about the behavior and joining me

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Speaker 2: is an esteem forensic psychologist specializing in capital mitigation and

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Speaker 2: victim advocacy at panthermitigation dot com. Author of Criminal Behavior

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Speaker 2: and author of Where Law and Psychology Intersect, Doctor Sherry

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Speaker 2: Schwartz is with us. Doctor Sherry, I've got a problem

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Speaker 2: with this. She is the one that calls nine to

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Speaker 2: one one just a few hours before baby Leon is

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Speaker 2: raced to the hospital. Now this is after baby Ari.

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Speaker 2: She is the one that notices that baby Ari's penis

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Speaker 2: is swown and read and there are multiple scratches in

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Speaker 2: his growing area. She says, look at this, and the

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Speaker 2: parents rush to the hospital with baby Ari. They're in

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Speaker 2: the hospital with baby Ari and they get a call.

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Speaker 2: Leon is unresponsive and the dad says.

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Speaker 1: Called nine one one, and she does.

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Speaker 2: But within hours she is spotted leaving her airbnb in

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Speaker 2: about five hours, fully dressed, makeup, hair, everything, jetting out

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Speaker 2: of town.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean if anything.

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Speaker 6: Well, right off the bat, if she's trying to flee,

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Speaker 6: which is what it appears she was trying to do.

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Speaker 6: Innocent people don't run away when they know that they're

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Speaker 6: going to need to answer some questions and help further

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Speaker 6: along an investigation. But to me, it's even deeper, because

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Speaker 6: this is a clinical psychology PhD studs and during that training,

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Speaker 6: and she's not new in that training. So during that training,

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Speaker 6: we are taught about legal investigations, we are taught about ethics,

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Speaker 6: We are taught about things that make us know that

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Speaker 6: we don't need to call somebody to figure out if

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Speaker 6: we need to call nine to one one.

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Speaker 1: So this is extra troubling.

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Speaker 6: There's an added layer here.

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Speaker 2: Jared Farantino is joining us try a lawyer and co

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Speaker 2: host a primetime crime on YouTube. You can find them

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Speaker 2: at Jarrettfarantino dot com. Jared and a lot of jurisdictions,

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Speaker 2: judges no longer give a jury instruction to the jury

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Speaker 2: about evidence of flight. That's no longer allowed for the

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Speaker 2: judge to instruct the jury that flight can doesn't have

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Speaker 2: to be, but can be construed as evidence of guilt

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Speaker 2: when someone tries to flee the same. However, the prosecution

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Speaker 2: can still argue it. Let me give a good example,

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Speaker 2: Scott Peterson. That's a great example. Remember when Lacy's body

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Speaker 2: had washed ashore as well as its unborn son Connors.

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Speaker 2: Scott Peterson dyed his hair, loaded up on viagra and

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Speaker 2: condoms and a fake ID and tried to skip town.

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Speaker 2: He was caught he also had a water purifier and

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Speaker 2: camping gear.

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Speaker 1: In my mind, that's evidence of flight equals evidence of guilt.

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Speaker 2: So in this case, how would you differentiate the glam

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Speaker 2: PhD student Versey with Peterson.

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Speaker 7: So Nancy consciousness of guilt is admissible in Pennsylvania. What

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Speaker 7: Nicole Versy would have to do in this case is

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Speaker 7: explain away that conduct. She would say her plans for

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Speaker 7: some reason changed anything to rebut the fact that she

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Speaker 7: was trying to high tail it out of town would

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Speaker 7: be something she could rebut the argument that in fact

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Speaker 7: she was leaving, she was on her way out of

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Speaker 7: ten to avoid responsibility for these charges.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Fertina, I love what you just said. Her plans changed?

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Speaker 2: When at three am? When did her plans change? But

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Speaker 2: I do want to follow up on something that Jarrett

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Speaker 2: Farantino says. And look, he's between a rock and a

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Speaker 2: hard spot. You take your client the way you find them.

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Speaker 2: What do you think you're going to get a nun,

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Speaker 2: a priest, aversion, Sister Teresa, That's not happening, okay, mothers.

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Speaker 1: Ruisa is not going to be your client. You're stuck

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Speaker 1: with Versi.

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Speaker 2: So you've got to somehow Ruppel Stileskin, you got to

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Speaker 2: spend that straw that hay into Gold Defense Gold. So

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Speaker 2: he just said that she could argue her plans had changed.

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Speaker 2: Alexis Tereschuk, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, What were

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Speaker 2: her plans? I thought she was going to stay in

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Speaker 2: the airbnb a few blocks away from where the children

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Speaker 2: and were apparently assaulted.

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Speaker 1: What plans changed? Her plan was to be there for

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Speaker 1: multiple days.

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Speaker 5: After exactly she had at least two more nights on

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Speaker 5: the Airbnb reservation. She was going to stay with her friend,

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Speaker 5: hang out with the babies. She had emailed the owner

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Speaker 5: of the Airbnb and said, you know, I'm going to

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Speaker 5: be here, just so excited to stay in your lovely place.

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Speaker 5: Nothing about oh, I'm only staying one night after I

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Speaker 5: was in the hospital with my friend's baby. She had

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Speaker 5: definitely not planned to leave the airbnb.

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Speaker 1: Earlier Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: So taking a look at this timeline to Brian Fitzgibbons

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Speaker 2: direct to Operations USPA Nationwide Security leading a team of investigators.

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Speaker 2: You can find him at uspasecurity dot com.

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Speaker 1: Bryan Fitzgibbons, what do you make of it?

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Speaker 8: Listen, you look at the timeline when she makes that

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Speaker 8: call to nine one one at eleven fifteen. All Right,

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Speaker 8: she already knows what's occurred inside of that house and

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Speaker 8: what's happened with that baby. All Right, at this time,

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Speaker 8: a horrific thing has already happened.

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Speaker 1: Police.

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Speaker 8: Now by the time she's absconding in the early morning,

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Speaker 8: over that six hour span, right, police have had a

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Speaker 8: chance to process that crime scene. That's why they were

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Speaker 8: waiting outside the airbnb when she was trying to make

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Speaker 8: her escape.

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Speaker 2: So let's backtrack it to her coming home from the hospital,

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Speaker 2: leaving her friend, the mom, and the dad at the

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Speaker 2: hospital with baby Leon hoping he survives.

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Speaker 9: Listen EMT's transport Lyon Cats to the hospital shortly before midnight,

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Speaker 9: and his father, Ethankats, and Nicole Versy drive to the

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Speaker 9: hospital separately. Savannah Roberts is still at the hospital with

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Speaker 9: Leon's twin brother, Ari, who is being treated for mysterious

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Speaker 9: injuries to his groin area. Nicole Versy doesn't stay at

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Speaker 9: the hospital long. She's seen arriving back at her airbnb

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Speaker 9: shortly before one am, appearing nervous as she struggles to

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Speaker 9: unlock the door, grim faced with her cell phone in

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Speaker 9: one hand. She enters the door code to enter the

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Speaker 9: apartment building. Versy has to enter the code a couple

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Speaker 9: of times before getting the number right and entering the building.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what I could read into that or

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Speaker 2: translate out of that. Let me go to you, doctor

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Speaker 2: Sherry Schwartz joining us. Of course, there's nothing I can

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Speaker 2: glean from that. She gets back, leaving one of her

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Speaker 2: best friends and the husband at the hospital with baby Leon.

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Speaker 2: I can't determine any consciousness of guilt. Of course, she's upset.

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Speaker 2: It's late at night. She comes home, she can't quite

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Speaker 2: get back into the door.

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Speaker 1: She struggles with it.

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Speaker 2: That means nothing to me because it's not her home code,

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Speaker 2: it's the code from the airbnb, so she's trying to

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Speaker 2: remember that. I can't really glean anything from that, however,

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Speaker 2: leaving in the cloak of darkness the next morning at

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Speaker 2: five am to leave town.

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Speaker 1: That tells me a lot.

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Speaker 2: And I'm wondering jump into Alexas Treshak if you know

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Speaker 2: is she leaving by car or has she called for

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Speaker 2: an uber or a lyft? And what was her destination?

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Speaker 2: That's what I'm getting at. Do we know where she

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Speaker 2: was headed?

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Speaker 1: Such as the airport doctor Sherry Schwartz.

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Speaker 2: I can't really read anything into her entry into the

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Speaker 2: airbnb the night before.

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Speaker 6: No, However, it is troubling because this is such a

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Speaker 6: good friend to her, that this friend she traveled across

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Speaker 6: the country to help this friend take care of the babies.

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Speaker 6: I read that it was the young couples, the parents

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Speaker 6: wedding anniversary. It was also Father's Day or around Father's Day,

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Speaker 6: I believe, So why aren't you at your friend's side?

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Speaker 6: Why aren't you at the hospital to control your friend

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Speaker 6: and be there for your friend? And again not to

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Speaker 6: beat the drum. This is a clinical psychology PhD student

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Speaker 6: whose training would prepare her to be there and hold

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Speaker 6: space for somebody in a traumatic situation. And I understand

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Speaker 6: that she may also have been experiencing anxiety and the

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Speaker 6: sense of trauma herself. But she was with these babies

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Speaker 6: and the one who noticed their injuries, and with the

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Speaker 6: one child, the deceased child. She was with him when

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Speaker 6: he sustained life taking injuries. So that part is troubling

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Speaker 6: to me.

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Speaker 2: In last hours, we learned that the so called glam

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Speaker 2: glamorous PhD student called Verzi tries to leave her Airbnb

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Speaker 2: in the cloak of darkness at around five o'clock in

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Speaker 2: the morning. What if anything, does that mean That will

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Speaker 2: be up to a jury whether that can be construed

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Speaker 2: as flight or evidence of guilt. But we do know

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Speaker 2: she was a no show at her arraignment. First of all,

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Speaker 2: let me go straight out to Jarrett Fiarantino explain in

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Speaker 2: a nutshell, what is an arrangment?

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Speaker 7: Basically, Nancy, in Pennsylvania, you're read your charges and you

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Speaker 7: at that point enter a plea of guilty or not guilty.

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Speaker 7: Typically defendants appear for that, but if they don't appear

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Speaker 7: or waive that process, a plea of not guilty is

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Speaker 7: entered on their.

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Speaker 2: Behalf, automatically entered by the judge. Straight out to Alexis Tereschak,

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Speaker 2: crimeonline dot Com investigative reporter, Alexis, what happened? Because the

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Speaker 2: state goes to great pains to ensure a criminal defendant

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Speaker 2: has transportation, timely transportation to get to an arrangement. It's

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Speaker 2: an important part of the justice system. It's guaranteed in

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Speaker 2: our constitution that within x hours of you being charged,

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Speaker 2: you will be brought before a judge.

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Speaker 1: It could be a magistrate.

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Speaker 2: It could be a fail in the court trial judge,

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Speaker 2: and you will be formally read the charges against you,

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Speaker 2: and at that time, if the state's witnesses are known,

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Speaker 2: those witnesses are given to you and you have a

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Speaker 2: chance to state in court guilty or not guilty. Why

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Speaker 2: was she a no show? Am?

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Speaker 1: I corrected, saying she was a no show?

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Speaker 5: One hundred percent. She was a no show. She sent

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Speaker 5: her look, she sent her lawyer. Her lawyer appeared on

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Speaker 5: her behalf. She did not show up, She did not

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Speaker 5: face the judge, and she did not appear in court.

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Speaker 5: This would have been the first time that she would

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Speaker 5: have been seen since being arrested for the felony against

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Speaker 5: this six week old baby, but she did not. She

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Speaker 5: chose not to appear. And then he entered the not

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Speaker 5: guilty plea. Well, she was given enough guilty plea on

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Speaker 5: her behalf in the court, which she is still in jail.

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Speaker 1: So what does it mean if anything?

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Speaker 2: Of course, if this ever comes to a jury trial,

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Speaker 2: which I do believe will, they'll never know she was

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Speaker 2: a no show in court? Why did she hide out?

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Speaker 2: Why does she not want to come in and state

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Speaker 2: not guilty? I point A phrase is called a statement

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Speaker 2: plea where you try to make statement with the few

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Speaker 2: words you're given, be it guilty or not guilty in

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Speaker 2: court in public?

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Speaker 1: Perfect example, OJ Simpson.

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Speaker 10: Matter of People versus Orienthal James Simpson, how do you

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Speaker 10: plead to count one and two?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, that's some of my friends at CBS. Those words

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Speaker 2: will ring in my head forever. Absolutely, one hundred percent

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Speaker 2: not guilty. I wonder how many times my old co anchor,

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Speaker 2: Johnny Cochran practice that with Simpson before he could deliver

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Speaker 2: it in that manner in open court, knowing that it

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Speaker 2: was going to be televised, knowing that the world would

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Speaker 2: see it. Absolutely what percent not guilty? So why did

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Speaker 2: VERSI pull a no show? Then? Of course there's let

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Speaker 2: me think, Scott Peterson, listen.

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Speaker 11: Is that correct, mis Com Peterson?

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Speaker 1: You're feeding actilly?

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Speaker 11: Is the true charges of murdered plus the special deny

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Speaker 11: any special allegations for episodes?

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Speaker 7: That's correct.

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Speaker 1: That's my friends at Court TV.

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Speaker 2: And can I tell you Mark Garrigo say what she

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Speaker 2: might about geargos He is a wizard at defending criminals.

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Speaker 2: I guarantee you he had Scott Peterson decked out looking

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Speaker 2: his best at ease in court, insisting I am hey,

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Speaker 2: I want to see that one more time. Scott Peterson

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Speaker 2: saying I am innocent.

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Speaker 7: Is that correct?

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Speaker 11: Mis Com Peterson, you're feeding Acchillia. Is the two charges

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Speaker 11: of murdered plus the special deny any special allegations episodes?

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Speaker 7: That's correct?

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Speaker 2: Geges, please do you have to give him cues in

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Speaker 2: open court?

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Speaker 1: That's for our friends at Court TV.

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Speaker 2: He's like absolutely, say absolutely, Okay, So.

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Speaker 1: That wasn't a rehearsed.

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Speaker 2: You know what, I love looking at defendants when they

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Speaker 2: say absolutely one hundred percent not guilty. I just like

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Speaker 2: to look at them while they're lying. Speaking of lying,

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Speaker 2: Can we watch O. J. Simpson just one more time

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Speaker 2: just to say we did matter.

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Speaker 10: Of people versus Orienthal James Simpson, how do you plead

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Speaker 10: to count one and two?

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Speaker 2: Absolute?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: That down from our friends at CBS. Absolutely one hundred

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Speaker 2: percent not guilty. And then I guess you could take

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Speaker 2: the coburger approach. Okay, and we all know while we're

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Speaker 2: hearing them say absolutely one hundred percent, I swear to

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Speaker 2: the Lord in Heaven not guilty.

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Speaker 1: That they're guilty. Okay.

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Speaker 2: So I look at them and they seem so believable. Hey,

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Speaker 2: what stunt did Coburger.

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Speaker 12: Pull Miss Taylor?

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Speaker 13: Who's mister Coberger prepared to plead to these charges?

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Speaker 1: Where I feel all the same.

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Speaker 8: Because mister Coberger is Sandy silent.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to answer.

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Speaker 13: An ideals you police, I've been she charged as one, two, three, four,

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Speaker 13: and five.

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Speaker 2: That's my friends at East Idaho News. Hey, let me

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Speaker 2: go to you, Jarrett Farantino. Do you see that the

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Speaker 2: defendants are totally rehearsed. They know exactly what to do

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Speaker 2: and not do when they are asked when the judge

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Speaker 2: pops the questioning court, how do you plead?

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Speaker 1: Coburger was his call as a.

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Speaker 2: Pickle in court and knew that his lawyer, Ann Taylor

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Speaker 2: was going to jump up and say he's going to

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Speaker 2: stand silent, and there's a trial strategy to standing silent.

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Speaker 1: But what do you think about the rehearsals?

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Speaker 7: Well, I think clearly those individuals were rehearsed. They had

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Speaker 7: prepared statements to just kind of a slip in there

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Speaker 7: when the judge asked them for their position. But it's

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Speaker 7: worth noting Nancy Colberger, Simpson, and Scott Peterson all have

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Speaker 7: video cameras in the courtroom, so the games start. Then

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Speaker 7: they're laying the foundation to get this defense out. In Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 7: where this case hails from, there are no cameras in

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Speaker 7: the courtroom, so there's no cameras to play to. If

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Speaker 7: she skips arraignment, she simply gets a not guilty plea.

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Speaker 7: At this point, I.

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Speaker 2: Guess you've heard of court reporters, reporters in court taking

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Speaker 2: down and writing about every single move Jarrett Varantino. In

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Speaker 2: our country, according to the founding fathers, we have open courtrooms,

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Speaker 2: no secret proceedings like you hear about in other countries,

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Speaker 2: you know, like China or Russia, where everything's done behind

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Speaker 2: closed doors.

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Speaker 1: Not here. As much as we can, I.

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Speaker 2: Guarantee you reporters would have been there to write down

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Speaker 2: everything she said, she did, what she was ring, her demeanor,

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Speaker 2: whether she stuttered, whether she.

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Speaker 1: Paused, you name it.

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Speaker 2: Now here is a strategic approach, and that would be

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Speaker 2: Alec Baldwin. Alec Baldwin. The judge just threw out the

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Speaker 2: charges against him. So in that case, Alexis Tereschuk refreshed

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Speaker 2: my recollection. Didn't he send in his lawyers to plead

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Speaker 2: not guilty? And he did not go to court?

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Speaker 1: Correct? He did not appear in court.

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Speaker 5: Famous Alec Baldwin, you know, super recognizable movie star, has

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Speaker 5: insisted that he well, he even said I think I

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Speaker 5: didn't pull the trigger. But he has insisted that he

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Speaker 5: was not at fault for the gun that fired in

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Speaker 5: his hand that killed Helena.

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Speaker 6: But he didn't appear in court that first time.

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Speaker 2: So why didn't Ersey at least show up to court

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Speaker 2: and let her lawyer do the talking like Coburger Take

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Speaker 2: a look from east side her news.

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Speaker 13: Miss Taylor, he's mister Colbert and prepared to three to

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Speaker 13: the starges tyld sin sid.

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Speaker 8: Because sim mister Koberber, he is sind silent.

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Speaker 7: I'm going to answer.

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Speaker 13: An idealty police, I'm fish charge guts one, two, three, four,

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Speaker 13: and five.

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Speaker 3: As parents of newborn Savannah and Ethan wait in the

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Speaker 3: er with the baby Ari, they receive an even more

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Speaker 3: worrying call. Baby Leon has fallen and is unresponsive.

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Speaker 2: Okay, what do we know about the movements of everyone

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Speaker 2: the night? Baby Leon gets such extreme injuries to the

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Speaker 2: head that he dies.

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Speaker 1: Listen.

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Speaker 14: Calling nine one one around eleven fifteen pm, Nicole Versey

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Speaker 14: tells the dispatcher that Leon has fallen from a bascinette

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Speaker 14: and bumped his head and is becoming unresponsive. When police

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Speaker 14: arrive at Versey tells police she falls asleep with the

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Speaker 14: baby in his bouncer seat. When she wakes up, she

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Speaker 14: goes to get a bottle from the kitchen for the baby.

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Speaker 14: While she is out of the room, she hears Leon

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Speaker 14: screaming and finds him on the floor with a bump

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Speaker 14: on his head. She tells police he fell out of

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Speaker 14: his bouncer seat.

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Speaker 1: Let me just analyze that.

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Speaker 2: We all know straight out to you, Brian Fitzgibbons, Director

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Speaker 2: usp USPA Nationwide Security. We know that, she tells police

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Speaker 2: at one point, he fell out of a bouncy seat. Later,

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Speaker 2: she says, out of a bacinet. Those two are very

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Speaker 2: different pieces of baby furniture. A bacinet is higher up

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Speaker 2: off the ground that there is a bouncy seat. But

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Speaker 2: what about this fact, Brian Fitzgibbons. She says, she falls asleep,

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Speaker 2: she wakes up, the baby is in the bouncy seat.

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Speaker 2: She leaves the baby in the bouncy seat, which is

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Speaker 2: supposed to be seat buckled, to go get the bottle,

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Speaker 2: and it's then she hears Leon's scream finds on the

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Speaker 2: floor of the bump on his head. She says, he

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Speaker 2: fell out of his bouncer seat. Now, you have interesting

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Speaker 2: information about the height of the bouncer seat, and I

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Speaker 2: want to talk to you about the timing.

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Speaker 1: And even on that bouncer.

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Speaker 2: Seat, you see a spot for the baby to put

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Speaker 2: its legs through, which is like a really soft type

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00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 2: of a cotton slide in for the baby so it

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Speaker 2: doesn't fall out.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what are your thoughts on the bouncy seat injury.

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Speaker 8: First of all, Nancy, we have to understand police have

439
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 8: already reported that the tallest height on this bouncy seat

440
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Speaker 8: that the baby could have fallen from is eighteen inches.

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Speaker 8: So Nicole, her defense is going to have to explain

442
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 8: how a baby falls eighteen inches to its death.

443
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 1: Are you on a first nating basis with VERSI? Now

444
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: sorry called her, Nicole? Are you expecting to go over

445
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: for dinner after the acquittal?

446
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 7: I forgot the last name.

447
00:25:55,640 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 2: Sorry about that, Nancy, Versy state versus, go ahead, say

448
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 2: whatever you want. But to elisis Terrisschuk. Let me talk

449
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 2: to you about the timing. He's right, the investigators measure

450
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 2: it is eighteen inches. I can see doctor Kimdall Crown's

451
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 2: is just recoiling right now that a baby would eject

452
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 2: itself from an eighteen inch bouncy seat and die.

453
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: But that said, the.

454
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 2: Timing, the timing, she sees the baby in the bouncy seat,

455
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 2: she goes to the kitchen, she hears a scream. So

456
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 2: the timing, So am I supposed to believe that in

457
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,360
Speaker 2: those forty five seconds the baby kills itself?

458
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 5: Well, Andy, she did say he fell out of a

459
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 5: bascinet first, and then changed her story to the bouncy seat.

460
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 5: So a bascinet, as you showed the picture there, they

461
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 5: have sides on them, and a six week old baby

462
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 5: cannot fall out of that bascinet. He can't stand up,

463
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 5: he can't move, he can't grab the side. You can't

464
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 5: fall out of that bassinet unless it was a swinging

465
00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 5: one and it flipped over, which I don't think.

466
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 2: The timing, the time, and Jarrett Farentino helped me out,

467
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 2: help me out, forty five seconds, How in that timing,

468
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 2: in that short time.

469
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: Does the baby kill itself?

470
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 2: That's quite the coincidence, Jarrett Farantino, And I guess even

471
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 2: you taking the side of the COVERSI will admit there

472
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 2: is no coincidence in criminal law. In the forty five

473
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 2: seconds it takes her to walk to the kitchen, the

474
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 2: baby kills itself.

475
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 7: That's an extremely narrow window for an opportunity like something

476
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 7: of this nature to happen. I mean, the charge is

477
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 7: non accidental. So there are injuries that have been observed

478
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 7: that have allowed the examiners to conclude this was not

479
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 7: an accident. There are injuries that are not consistent with

480
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 7: a fall. That's exactly what brought about these charges. So

481
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 7: that version in that timeline doesn't make sense when compared

482
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 7: to the injuries.

483
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: Okay, listen to this.

484
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 9: Rush to the hospital, doctors discovered Leon Katz has a

485
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 9: severe skull fracture to the left side of his head

486
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 9: and multiple brain bleeds. The entry suffered by the six

487
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 9: week old baby proof fatal, and he's pronounced dead the

488
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 9: next morning at Children's hospital. Police say Versy has no

489
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 9: plausible explanation for the severity of Leon's injuries. Examining the

490
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 9: bouncer seat, the detectives report that it's about eighteen inches

491
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 9: from the tallest point of the seat to the floor.

492
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 1: Okay, this is what matters.

493
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 2: What the medical examiner says, I can argue, hey, she's leaving,

494
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 2: She's fleeing in the middle of the night.

495
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 1: This that the timing, the coincidence.

496
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 2: It's all about the CD cause of death. Nobody can

497
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 2: tell it like Kendle Crowns. Excuse me, doctor Kendall Crowns,

498
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,719
Speaker 2: Chief Medical Examiner, Terrance County.

499
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: That's Fort Worth.

500
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 2: He cringes every time I say this, but never a

501
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 2: lot of business at the Fort Worth Morgue, esteemed lecturer

502
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 2: at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU, literally thousands

503
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 2: of autopsies under his belt, Doctor Kendall Crowns, what do you.

504
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 10: Think so the description of the injuries of fracture the

505
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 10: skull brain bleed is not from an eighteen inch fall,

506
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 10: especially with these bouncy seats if they're not buckled in

507
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 10: and they usually kind of roll out of them, they're

508
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 10: not even falling eighteen inches at that point. The type

509
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 10: of force that would be necessary to fracture the skull

510
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 10: like that the bouncy seat would have been had to

511
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 10: have put on the second story of a building and

512
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 10: the child rolled off and fell to the ground that way.

513
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 10: So to me, that sounds more like the child was

514
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 10: had their heads slammed against a solid surface.

515
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: Crime Stores with Nancy Gray.

516
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 9: Investigators Nicole Versy about the injuries to Ari Katz, and

517
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 9: she immediately points out that she was the one who

518
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 9: spotted the injuries to Ari and alerted the parents. Versy

519
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 9: says the infant scratches his own face as he's flailing

520
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 9: about when he's being put in his car seat. Investigators

521
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 9: are also made aware Leon was alert, conscious, and not

522
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 9: injured when he is left with Versy watching over him

523
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 9: while the parents leave the home to take Ari to

524
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 9: the hospital for his mysterious genital injuries to be examined.

525
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 9: Versy tells officers she had fallen asleep with Leon in

526
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 9: his bouncy seat, and when she woke up, she went

527
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 9: to the kitchen to get him a bottle. Versy claims

528
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 9: while in the kitchen, she hears a thump and Leon crying,

529
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 9: and she finds him laying on the floor with a

530
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 9: horrible bump on the left side of his head. She

531
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 9: calls the parents, who tell her to call nine one one,

532
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 9: and that's.

533
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: What she does.

534
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 2: Okay, already, this case is generating a lot of controversy.

535
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 2: I'm wanting to hear what I read someone had written

536
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 2: last night. I'm sorry, this is an absurd story. The

537
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 2: fact that people assume she's the baby murderer is effing terrifying.

538
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: Nothing suggests this was not an accident. They go on

539
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 2: to say, Neeborns are so effing fragile they break ribs

540
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 2: when they're born.

541
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: They come out not.

542
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 2: Yet completed, gest stating that's why they have a gigantic

543
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 2: hole in their.

544
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: Skull, the soft spot.

545
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 2: It goes on to say, one hard fall, the baby's dead,

546
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 2: and that's what happened here.

547
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: Doctors claim every bruise on a baby means abuse.

548
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 2: It's almost always wrong, they write, Please stop believing these

549
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 2: absurd headlines.

550
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: People who kill babies have histories of problems.

551
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 2: Countless arrests, violent histories, drug addictions, alcohol problems, none describe

552
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 2: Nicole Versey.

553
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: Okay, can I go to doctor Kendall Crown's that's just

554
00:31:58,600 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: so much.

555
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 2: I'm just a trial law you're the medical examiner. So

556
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 2: babies just die all the time when they fall.

557
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: I didn't know that.

558
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 10: I neither did I, because if we die, if babies

559
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 10: died all the time when they fall, I'd have a

560
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 10: lot more business, which I don't have, so that's a

561
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 10: very inaccurate description. Also, the falling, we get a lot

562
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 10: of child abuse cases where the child fell from something,

563
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 10: and it's usually because that's how they're covering the damage

564
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 10: to the head that was caused. Then you can add

565
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 10: on there that ribs are broken. Okay, occasionally ribs are

566
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 10: broken during the birth process, but not to the extent

567
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 10: that you see damage from child abuse. The head not

568
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 10: being fully formed, well, that's so your brain can expand,

569
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 10: and that actually means your skull is more appliable. As

570
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 10: you get older, it becomes more hardened or more bony,

571
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 10: so it won't fracture as much. So again, all those

572
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 10: statements are completely inaccurate. And finally, you know, child abuse

573
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 10: theres are bad people. It's usually a parent or a

574
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 10: boyfriend that has just a bad moment, can't handle the

575
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 10: child and loses it. It's not that they have a history.

576
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 10: It's often it's just that one moment and they lose

577
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 10: control and they kill the kid.

578
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: Well, the writer is.

579
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 2: Suggesting that you have to have a history of abuse

580
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 2: or criminal convictions in order to kill a baby. That's

581
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 2: simply not true. And I'm trying to think back and

582
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 2: practically every child murder case I had that did not

583
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 2: have a criminal history. Let's see, there's so many different

584
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 2: directions to go. What about Benson Gardner had their.

585
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 9: Gardener dromsof for a two month old baby and an

586
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 9: older son with the babysitter, Marisa Titzer. When the mom

587
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 9: returns to pick her children up, the baby is already

588
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 9: in his seat. He's already got his winter parka on,

589
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 9: and his hat is pulled down over his eyes, and

590
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 9: the sitter says, hey, he's asleep. It's only after they

591
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 9: get to the laundromat when Heather takes the baby out

592
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 9: of the car seat and realizes he's perfectly stiff. His

593
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 9: legs are bent in the shape of the car seat.

594
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 9: Her sister calls nine to one one and mom begins CPR,

595
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,800
Speaker 9: but it's too late. The baby's already dead. By the

596
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 9: time rescue workers arrive. They declare the baby dead at

597
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:25,240
Speaker 9: the laundromat.

598
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 2: In that case, like in the current case of the

599
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:34,240
Speaker 2: so called glam PhD student, the babysitter was known to mommy,

600
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 2: and of course we have and did not have a

601
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 2: criminal history.

602
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,959
Speaker 1: My point, what about Fallon Fridley.

603
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 10: They were horrific.

604
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 12: The child had injuries all over her body that were

605
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 12: definitely not consistent with just hitting her head on a

606
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 12: slide of the playground. They found contusions all over her body,

607
00:34:55,400 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 12: terrors to some of her internal organs, which we're definitely

608
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 12: inconsistent with hitting your head on a slide as well.

609
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 12: So just horrific, horrific injuries.

610
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 15: When we were at the hospital, you know, the doctor

611
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 15: had mentioned that he had never seen a child with

612
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 15: injuries this severe actually recover, so hearing that was really

613
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,879
Speaker 15: a heavy blow, but we were all optimistic. I think

614
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 15: it was around one fifteen one twenty in the morning

615
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 15: that we got the hard news.

616
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 2: Doctor Tendal Crowns is just over and over and over,

617
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 2: a child, an infant, or taught dies of extreme head

618
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 2: injuries that just can't happen from an eighteen inch fall.

619
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: You just don't fall and die.

620
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,959
Speaker 2: Everybody on earth would be dead because we all fall

621
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:48,280
Speaker 2: at some point or another.

622
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: You don't just die when.

623
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 10: You fall, correct, I mean especially children, because they their

624
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 10: heads aren't completely ossified or they're not completely formed bony

625
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 10: bone wise, so they do have some beendability to them.

626
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 10: And also they're not at an adult height if they

627
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,399
Speaker 10: fall from a standing height, they're two foot three foot,

628
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 10: it isn't going to cause a fracture. When you see

629
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 10: fractures like this, especially in a six week old, it's

630
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 10: someone pounding their head on something. It just can't happen

631
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,240
Speaker 10: from a fall. And also you have to think about

632
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,800
Speaker 10: how would they get bruises. They're not even crawling around,

633
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,320
Speaker 10: they're not really even standing yet, So any bruises that

634
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 10: you're seeing on a six week old is more than

635
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 10: likely an inflicted trauma.

636
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,280
Speaker 4: In the case of Nicole Versey, the District Attorney's office

637
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 4: is providing four reasons for seeking the death penalty. One

638
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 4: is that the defendant committed the killing well in perpetration

639
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,720
Speaker 4: of a felony. The second is the offense was committed

640
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,760
Speaker 4: by means of torture. The third reason given for seeking

641
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 4: the death penalty is the defendant has a significant history

642
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 4: of felony convictions involving the use or threat of violence

643
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,439
Speaker 4: to a person. And the fourth reason is the child

644
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 4: was under twelve years of age.

645
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 1: The cal Verzi does not have any criminal history.

646
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 2: That particular aggravating circumstance only comes into play once a

647
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 2: guilty verdict is handed down.

648
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: And the death penalty is being sought.

649
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:15,280
Speaker 2: But I want to address Alexis Tereschuk that the prosecution

650
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 2: says one reason they would see the death penalty in

651
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 2: this case.

652
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 1: Is because of torture.

653
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 5: Explain, they feel like it wasn't that the baby fell

654
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 5: out of the bassinet or the bouncy seat, that he

655
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 5: was repeatedly injured, repeatedly hit or repeatedly slammed against something,

656
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 5: and this was torturing. He is six weeks old, tiniest

657
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 5: little thing like those little boys are so small, and

658
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 5: he was torture. They believe that his injuries were so

659
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 5: severe and so dramatic that this is they are considering

660
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:45,760
Speaker 5: this torture.

661
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 2: It's really hard to reconcile what we know about this

662
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:56,399
Speaker 2: so called glamorous PhD student studying psychology and the fact

663
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 2: that torture is alleged by the prosecute.

664
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: Let's get it from the horse's mouth.

665
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,280
Speaker 5: My name is Nicole Ersey and I'm the first author

666
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 5: on the article titled Depression symptom patterns as predictors of

667
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 5: metabolic syndrome and cardiac events.

668
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: Again, it reminds me of Scott Peterson.

669
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 2: Oh, by the way, that's my friends at Heart and

670
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 2: Mind Journal, and that's Nicole Versey speaking about her PhD project. Again,

671
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 2: I use Peterson because it's very hard to look at

672
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 2: him and reconcile not in that big true exactly, but

673
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 2: in court. It's hard to reconcile him in court at

674
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 2: the time of the trial with what he was facing

675
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 2: in his charges of murdering Lacy.

676
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: And the baby. So what does it mean? Is the

677
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 1: eye tricking the mind or vice versa? Can we believe

678
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:47,919
Speaker 1: what we see?

679
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 2: Or on the other hand, and let me throw this

680
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 2: to doctor Sherry Schwartz joining us. I was reading all

681
00:38:55,280 --> 00:39:02,399
Speaker 2: the online comments quite controversial, where another observer states, after

682
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 2: reading about Nicole Versey's PhD aspirations like Coburger, is she

683
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 2: living out some other trauma or some fantasy that she

684
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 2: was developing as she wrote her psychology PhD?

685
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: Is it far fetched? Is it real? Those are the

686
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 1: same questions we're trying to.

687
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 6: Answer and co Burger, Well, the American Psychological Association did

688
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 6: a study back in around twenty twelve. It showed that

689
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 6: psychology PhD students tend to have a high level of

690
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 6: mental health symptoms like anxiety, depression, and other mental health concerns.

691
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 6: To me, that's a major concern when you're educating people

692
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 6: to go into a field to work with vulnerable people.

693
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 6: We require police officers to pass a psych evaluation, why

694
00:39:55,040 --> 00:40:00,879
Speaker 6: wouldn't we require clinical psychology students to past the same

695
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 6: psych evaluation whether or not she wanted to research her

696
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 6: friend's trauma. I saw that comment online. That's hard to say.

697
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:15,720
Speaker 6: That would be really diabolical. Doctor Kendall Crown said something

698
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 6: earlier about the fact that it seems like maybe she

699
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,360
Speaker 6: just lost it. The baby was crying, you know, something

700
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 6: like that. That would show poor emotion regulation, her inability

701
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 6: to control her emotions in an appropriate manner, which is

702
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 6: in and of itself a mental health concern. So any

703
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 6: number of things could have been behind why this baby

704
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 6: was abused.

705
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 2: We wait as just as un falls, and today our

706
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 2: prayers and our thoughts good to those whose lives were

707
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 2: forever changed September eleventh, two thousand and one. And we

708
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 2: remember the heroes who ran up the stairs to save others,

709
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 2: as set up down the stairs to breathe in the

710
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:07,280
Speaker 2: fresh air, those who were killed in the Twin Towers.

711
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 2: We will never forget law enforcement officers over sixty and

712
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 2: over three hundred.

713
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: Firefighters and paramedics and two thousand plus civilians who died

714
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: our American heroes. Nancy Grace signing off Goodbye friend,