1 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 2: This series features conversations about pregnancy, complications and loss. Please 3 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 2: take care while listening. By the beginning of twenty twenty two, 4 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 2: kind Body was riding high. It had opened thirteen clinics 5 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 2: in ten cities, and then in February, the company announced 6 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 2: a plan that would double its size. Kind Body said 7 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 2: it would acquire a larger competitor, a fertility chain called 8 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 2: Bios Fertility Institute. Unlike the venture capital and corporate world 9 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 2: that Kindbody's founder, Gina Bartesi came from, Bios was more 10 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 2: of a family business. It was founded in twenty fifteen 11 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:50,160 Speaker 2: by a doctor named Angie Beltzos. 12 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 3: Angie is unique. She is extraordinarily talented as a physician, 13 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 3: and she has even more talent it as a clinical leader, 14 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 3: just as a leader in general. 15 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 2: That's Gina talking to Griffin Jones, host of the Inside 16 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 2: Reproductive Health podcast, back in twenty twenty two. 17 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 3: She knows a tremendous amount about business, about productivity, about margin. 18 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 2: With Bios, kind Body immediately doubled its number of clinics 19 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 2: from thirteen to twenty six, and Gina wasn't done. She 20 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 2: had her sights set on doubling the number of clinics again. 21 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 3: But we're opening Seattle, We're opening Dallas, Houston, Orange County, Miami, Charlotte, 22 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 3: We're opening Washington, DC next week. Our plan calls for 23 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 3: fifty locations within the next two years. 24 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 2: In one of their first appearances as a new company, 25 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 2: executives from Bios and kind Body ring the bell at 26 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 2: the New York Stock Exchange. That summer, doctors and executives 27 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 2: from the two fertility companies gathered for a retreat in 28 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 2: Chicago to kick off this new chapter. At the front 29 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 2: of the room was Gina selling a vision of the future. 30 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 2: A former marketing executive from kind Body remembers that day. 31 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 4: We're coming together, Bios and kind Body. We're all on board. 32 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 2: We are not using her real name. She and others 33 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 2: you'll hear from in this episode asked for anonymity because 34 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 2: kind Body has threatened legal action against employees they believed 35 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 2: were talking to journalists. A voice actor is reading what 36 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 2: she told me. 37 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 4: Here's where a focus is. Here's a motivator for the team. 38 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 4: I mean, Gina knows she knows how to command a room, 39 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 4: an excited room, and it was really just focused on 40 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 4: here's the growth. Here's how we're going to do it, 41 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 4: and we're all going to be so rich at the 42 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 4: end of this journey. 43 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 2: Gina Bartesi declined to comment for this series. A spokeswoman 44 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 2: said this was because of quote multiple factual inaccuracies, as 45 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 2: well as continued biased reporting given Bloomberg's lack of context 46 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 2: provide to readers regarding the fertility industry kind body and 47 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 2: her role as an experienced leader in the field. Asked 48 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 2: to identify specific inaccuracies, the spokeswoman declined to comment. Part 49 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,679 Speaker 2: of the biosteal was that after the acquisition, Gina would 50 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 2: step back a CEO. She would stay on as chairman 51 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,079 Speaker 2: of the board, but would hand over the reigns of 52 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 2: day to day operations in an effort to make room 53 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 2: for the Bios executives. Gina knew a lot about employee benefits, 54 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 2: egg freezing, and how to raise money, but the next 55 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 2: phase of growth needed leaders who knew how to grow 56 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 2: multiple IVF clinics at once, and Gina saw the founder 57 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 2: of Bios, Angie Beltzos, as the person who could do that. 58 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 2: Here's Gina again on the Inside Reproductive Health podcast. 59 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 3: Now I will tell you Angie has uped the game. 60 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 3: A lot of doctors I talked to are very comfortable 61 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 3: doing one hundred and fifty cases a year, and they 62 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 3: say that listen, I do ten to twelve cases them up. 63 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 3: I sell an IVF cycle for twenty five thousand dollars 64 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 3: and that's my model. 65 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 2: With Angie's help, Gina envisioned higher volumes of IVF. 66 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 3: You look at the physician productivity of her doctors and 67 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 3: it's extraordinary. One of her lead physicians did more than 68 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 3: one thousand cases last year. That's extraordinary. 69 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 2: Kind Bodies leaders also had their site set on an 70 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 2: initial public offering, the kind of move that can bring 71 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,559 Speaker 2: a big payout for those who got into the company early. 72 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 5: He is the rocket ship analogy a lot. 73 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 4: We are on a rocket ship to the moon, and. 74 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 6: Then he always talked about, like the rocket ship, we're 75 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 6: going to like last to the moon and help everyone's fertility. 76 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 4: We're gonna get yellow planes. Everyone's gonna have a yellow plane. 77 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 4: Who's gonna buy the first plane? 78 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 2: Blind Bline. Amid all the talk of private jets and 79 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 2: worldwide expansion, the acquisition had saddled Kind Body with more 80 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 2: financial pressure, and it came at a time when the 81 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 2: start up was already struggling with operational issues from Bloomberg 82 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 2: and iHeart podcasts. This is IVF disrupted the kind Body story. 83 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 2: I'm Jackie Devalos. That spring, the two companies came together. 84 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 2: Employees were told it was the start of kind Body's 85 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 2: most exciting chapter. 86 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 1: Yet. 87 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 2: One of the executives who came over from Bios who 88 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 2: were calling Emily remembers the promises made. An actor is 89 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 2: reading what she told me. 90 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: It was a huge part of the deal was that 91 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 1: people wouldn't lose their jobs because the two companies came together, 92 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: that there was more than enough work to go around. 93 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,919 Speaker 1: If we had redundant positions. We were growing, so let's 94 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: figure out how to reallocate someone, train someone on something new. 95 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 2: But the deal in kind Body's aggressive growth plans that 96 00:05:55,920 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 2: followed it were based on overly rosy assumptions, according to 97 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 2: what I heard from current and former executives. The company 98 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 2: didn't disclose how much it paid to buy Bios, but 99 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 2: former executives tell me it was substantial. Kind Body had 100 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 2: used up a lot of its cash and the expectation 101 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 2: was that the deal would result in more people coming 102 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 2: through the doors. The Bios locations were already up and running, 103 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 2: and they were quickly remodeled to fit the kind Body aesthetic. 104 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 2: These clinics were also profitable, something kind Body couldn't say 105 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 2: about many of its other clinics. According to internal documents, 106 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 2: I saw Atlanta, Austin, and some California locations were burning 107 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 2: through cash. This wasn't part of the plan. When they'd 108 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 2: originally opened. Kind Body had expected the retail centric clinics 109 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 2: would attract a flood of new people looking for fertility services. 110 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 2: They also expected deals with employers to translate into a 111 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 2: steady flow of business, but former employees and executives told 112 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 2: me it was more of a trick. Part of the 113 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 2: reason is because people just weren't using their IVF benefit 114 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 2: at the rate kind Body had projected. Another challenge was 115 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: that IVF patients take time to cultivate to build trust with. 116 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 2: Even so, the company continued to spend and expand they 117 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 2: were banking on patient volume catching up. Here's Emily the 118 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 2: former bios employee, again. 119 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: The honeymoonish period was probably maybe nine months. We weren't 120 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: getting IVF patients in the door. We weren't building the 121 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: IVF volume to then grow and hit the projections. That 122 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: we had if you work backwards. The numbers were created 123 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: on bad math. So yes, of course you have to 124 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: make hard decisions if you're not hitting your projections. 125 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 2: By the fall of twenty twenty two, layoffs began, and 126 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 2: according to Emily, they were done in waves. 127 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: The first round of layoffs just laid a horrific foundation 128 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: for profound anxiety. They're often rolling layoffs. There might have 129 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: been an initial batch and then everyone felt like, Okay, 130 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: I'm safe, and then two, three, four weeks later others 131 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: would trickle out, and that hit to productivity cannot be understated. 132 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: People were not able to do their best work ever. Again, really, 133 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: there was always this concern that they would be next. 134 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 2: According to internal documents, the cuts hit hardest among those 135 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 2: working directly with patients, medical assistance, billing staff, and a 136 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 2: roll kind body called financial navigators. Financial navigators worked remotely 137 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 2: handling patients across all kind body clinics. Here's one of them. 138 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 6: So I feel like the financial navigator is probably next 139 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 6: to the doctor. We will basically come in and we 140 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 6: will go over your benefits, we will verify anything. We 141 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 6: will be the person who gets any authorizations. If you 142 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 6: have insurance, we will then cancel you on anything that's 143 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 6: going into come out of pocket for you. If you 144 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:16,079 Speaker 6: didn't pay, then you can't start your cycle. We're essentially 145 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 6: the last person you talked to before you start treatment. 146 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 2: For patients, financial navigators were more than just number crunchers. 147 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 2: They were guides through a complex and costly journey where 148 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 2: a single cycle of IVF could cost as much as 149 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 2: sixteen thousand dollars. But as the layoffs continued, the remaining 150 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 2: navigators found themselves overwhelmed. 151 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 5: Here's another There was probably ten or twelve people on 152 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 5: our team, and then at one point there were three 153 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 5: or four of us, and we were in charge of 154 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 5: all of the markets, all of the offices. And then 155 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 5: it was just like here's more work, and here's more work, 156 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 5: and here's more work, to the point where we were 157 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 5: on the phone with each other and on meetings with 158 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 5: each other just breaking down crime. 159 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 6: We had to do the phone calls, we had to 160 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 6: cut the money, we had to check the cycles, the schedules, like, 161 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 6: we had to do all of it, and we had 162 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 6: no help. I was drowning. 163 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 7: We were like, this rocket ship is like nose diving 164 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 7: right now, and if we're not going to jump off right. Now, 165 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 7: we're all doomed. There's no one on this rocket ship 166 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 7: that is going to survive. 167 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 2: The two financial navigators said they worried the mounting workload 168 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 2: would open them up to mistakes. 169 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 7: People are going to make errors. Things are going to happen, 170 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,839 Speaker 7: The stations are going to happen. You would quote the 171 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 7: wrong amount, You could send the wrong patience financial estimate 172 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 7: to the wrong patient, you could attach the wrong thing. 173 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 7: Like we have to double check and triple track everything, 174 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 7: and if you didn't send the authorization with the right codes, 175 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 7: you'd have to go and start the whole process again, 176 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:01,439 Speaker 7: which is a two week process than now, putting off 177 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 7: the patient's treatment. 178 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 2: With IVF, timing is everything. You're trying to sync up 179 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 2: multiple biological processes that normally happen naturally over weeks, from 180 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 2: getting the eggs to mature at just the right time 181 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 2: to ensuring the uterine lining is perfectly ready for implantation. 182 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 2: If your timing is off even by a day or two, 183 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 2: the whole cycle could be unsuccessful because embryos need exactly 184 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 2: the right conditions at exactly the right moment to have 185 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 2: the best chance of developing into a healthy pregnancy. 186 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 5: But if you made a mistake, it was the worst 187 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 5: thing in the entire world. 188 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 2: Patients frustrations with kind Body started showing up in negative 189 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 2: reviews online. The company was now being criticized for exactly 190 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 2: what it claimed to be fixing confusing bills, hitting costs, 191 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 2: and a lack of transparency. Patients described getting unexpected charges 192 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 2: weeks after procedures, insurance claims that were filed incorrectly, and 193 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 2: authorizations that arrived too late. These weren't just administrative headaches 194 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:13,439 Speaker 2: for patients already stretching their finances to afford fertility treatment. 195 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 2: These mistakes could mean the difference between starting a cycle 196 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 2: or having to wait months to save up again. In 197 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 2: the c suite, some executives were losing confidence. Kind Body's 198 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 2: high profile CFO had quit after less than a year 199 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:32,079 Speaker 2: on the job, and then the chief scientific officer left 200 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 2: the company. I reached out to both of them, and 201 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,959 Speaker 2: neither wanted to speak to me for this podcast because 202 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 2: they signed non disclosure agreements. In written comments, kind Body 203 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 2: told me it hired more customer service staff and made 204 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 2: significant improvements to its billing processes. It disputed that the 205 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 2: former chief scientific officer lost confidence in the organization. And 206 00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 2: said executives leave companies for various, often innocuous reasons. For 207 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 2: doctors and lab staff, the chief scientific officer leaving was 208 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 2: more than just another executive departure. He had been the 209 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 2: guardian of their scientific protocols, the person ensuring that the complex, 210 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 2: precise work of creating and handling embryos was done right. 211 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 2: Here's Emily, the former Bios executive again. 212 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: I think you can see some of the personnel changes 213 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: in the chief scientific officer role, and a lot of 214 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: movement in terms of who was in charge of labs 215 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: and people had to step in in interim fashions and 216 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: people left. Physicians were concerned. You can't just go grab 217 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: a benchtop scientist. It takes years, years to train as 218 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: skilled embryologist, and if you treat them as disposable people, 219 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: the word spreads. 220 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 2: The pressure to do more with less was already trickling 221 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 2: from the corporate offices all the way down to the 222 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 2: labs and in at Atlanta. Another preventable mistake would change 223 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 2: a woman's life forever. That's coming up. By the time 224 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 2: Vernita Pearsall started at Kind Bodies Atlanta Clinic in the 225 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 2: fall of twenty twenty two, the cracks were starting to show. 226 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 8: It seemed as if there was a revolving door when 227 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 8: it came to employees in the Atlanta office. 228 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 2: Vernita had seen her share of medical practices, but nothing 229 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 2: quite like this. While other kind body locations were also struggling, 230 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 2: she says, Atlanta was in free fall. 231 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 8: At one point, a lot of the executives came to 232 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 8: the office in Atlanta due to things occurring with so 233 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 8: much turnaround. 234 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 2: I saw an internal presentation that backed up what Vernita 235 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 2: was seeing. The Atlanta clinic had a staggering sixty four 236 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 2: percent turnover rate among its clinical staff. To handle the volume, 237 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 2: staff was told to move patients through their appointments even faster. 238 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 8: It was that feeling of a conveyor belt going in, 239 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 8: going out next, going in, going out next, And it 240 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 8: looked aesthetically like a soothing place, but in all actuality 241 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 8: that was not the case. It was pretty much let's 242 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 8: get them in, let's get them out. 243 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 2: Former employees told me. Staff inside the embryology lab, which 244 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 2: required the most precise and time intensive work, was burned out. 245 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 2: They struggled to keep up with a patient load that 246 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 2: kept growing even as their team kept shrinking. 247 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 8: A lot of times. They were there before I started, 248 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 8: and they were there after I would go home, and 249 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 8: they had to work many weekends, many holidays. 250 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 2: In text messages shared with me, one embryologist in Atlanta 251 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 2: told a fellow staffer quote, I have to be coach, 252 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 2: quarterback and wide receiver. We do not have the space, 253 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 2: equipment and people for this level of volume. It's dangerous 254 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 2: and not sustainable. I spoke to five former embryologists who 255 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 2: worked in the Atlantic Clinic. They all described the same 256 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 2: crushing workload, the constant turnover, the feeling that it was 257 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 2: only a matter of time before something went wrong, and 258 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 2: then one day, in March of twenty twenty three, it did. 259 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 2: Among the dozens of patient reviews and complaints I encountered 260 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 2: while reporting this story, one stood out. A Google review 261 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 2: that described a disappointing experience at the Atlantic Clinic. It 262 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 2: was a devastating error, one that would reveal just how 263 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 2: dangerous Kind Bodies staffing crime had become. Here's Vernita reading 264 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 2: the review. 265 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 8: She put, I recently had a very disappointing experience with 266 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 8: Kind Body Fertility Clinic that I cannot in good conscience recommend. Unfortunately, 267 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:19,360 Speaker 8: they gave me the wrong measurement of medication during my treatment, 268 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 8: which led to a lot of complications and stress. Despite 269 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 8: all the issues, we were able to proceed with one 270 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 8: embryo for transfer. 271 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 5: Wow. 272 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 8: On the day of the transfer, however, things went from 273 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 8: bad to worse. The clinic staff were unable to identify, 274 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 8: Oh my God, which embryo was ours because they had 275 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 8: some unlabeled embryos in their storage. This was extremely frustrating 276 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 8: and concerning, and left thus feeling very uncertain about the 277 00:17:57,640 --> 00:17:58,719 Speaker 8: entire process. 278 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 2: I spoke to four employees who were at the Atlanta 279 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 2: location the day this review is about. None would speak 280 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 2: on the record, fearing legal retaliation from Kind Body, but 281 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 2: the patient herself agreed to talk with me when I 282 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:17,239 Speaker 2: traveled to Atlanta to investigate what happened. She asked not 283 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 2: to be identified, explaining that as an immigrant in a 284 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 2: tight knit religious community, even sharing her story could have 285 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 2: serious consequences. A voice actor will read what she told me. 286 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 9: We are religious people, and our community will avoid us 287 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 9: if they hear about this. 288 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 2: I'll call her Ayana. She was thirty nine years old 289 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 2: when she walked into Kind Bodies Atlanta clinic that March morning, 290 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 2: carrying with her three years of hope and heartbreak. She'd 291 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 2: been through multiple egg retrievals, most unsuccessful. Out of the 292 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 2: few eggs they'd managed to retrieve, only one had developed 293 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 2: into a viable embryo. She was there that day for 294 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 2: her transfer, the culmination of a fertility journey. 295 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 9: That was our only opportunity. 296 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,439 Speaker 2: Instead, she and her husband spent three hours in a 297 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 2: waiting room before learning what happened. 298 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,120 Speaker 9: On the transfer date. When we reached there at twelve, 299 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 9: like midday, and they told us like about three o'clock, 300 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 9: like they were like, I don't know how to say it. 301 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 9: They were like messed up. They call everyone and like 302 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 9: put us in one room and like, I don't know. 303 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 9: They hold us like more than three hours. 304 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 2: When the doctor finally came in to explain, Ayana could 305 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 2: barely process the words. 306 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,640 Speaker 9: They just stand in front of me. I was crying. 307 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 9: They told us they don't have the embryo. 308 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 2: They're one embryo. Their only chance at having a child 309 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 2: had been mislabeled. The clinic had an embryo, but they 310 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 2: said they couldn't be sure it was a Yana's. The 311 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 2: only way to confirm would be through genetic testing, a 312 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 2: procedure that carried its own risks. Many patients choose to 313 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,479 Speaker 2: genetically test embryos before a transfer to make sure they 314 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 2: have the correct number of chromosomes. It helps detect abnormalities 315 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 2: that can result in serious genetic conditions that process, though 316 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 2: it has its own risks. It involves taking a little 317 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,199 Speaker 2: piece of the embryo and can sometimes damage it. Some 318 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 2: doctors recommend that patients who don't have a lot of 319 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 2: embryos to work with skip such testing. Ayana and her 320 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 2: husband had opted not to do genetic testing before, and 321 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 2: they didn't want to do it now because of her 322 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 2: religious beliefs. Ayana said she would have carried the baby 323 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 2: even if they had detected an abnormality, but. 324 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 9: They told us, we have one option, which is they 325 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 9: need to test it to know if it is ours 326 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 9: or not. The situation pushed us to do that. 327 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 2: Despite her misgivings, she went ahead and got the test. 328 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 2: A kind body doctor called and confirmed the embryo was 329 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 2: indeed theirs, but revealed something else, an abnormality. Ayana said 330 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,639 Speaker 2: the doctor didn't tell her what the abnormality was and 331 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 2: didn't explain the results. The doctor only told her that 332 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 2: the embryo had to be discarded. Normally, when an embryo 333 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 2: is genetically tested, patients get a copy of the report, 334 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,880 Speaker 2: and a doctor or a counselor walks a patient through 335 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 2: what it means. But Ayana told me she and her 336 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,199 Speaker 2: husband weren't given any paperwork, and no one explained what 337 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 2: the test had revealed about their last embryo. Many patients 338 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 2: who go through IVF have a hard time knowing what 339 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 2: to ask in these tense moments. For Ayana, she says 340 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 2: the fact that English was not her first language made 341 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 2: it even more difficult. Discarding an embryo was a big 342 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 2: decision and went against Ayana's religious principles. She said she 343 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 2: felt pushed into a decision she didn't want to make, 344 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 2: but she also felt she didn't have any information to 345 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 2: be able to push back. The doctor was apologetic and 346 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 2: offered a free round of IVF. 347 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 9: She told me, if you work with us, if you 348 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 9: continue with us, we offer you another cycle. We will 349 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 9: take care of everything. 350 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 2: I talked to kind Body when I first learned of 351 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 2: this incident. A spokeswoman said that kind Body bought a 352 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 2: tracking system to try to minimize human errors. It's called 353 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 2: electronic witnessing, and it gives each patience eggs, sperm, and 354 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 2: embryos unique barcodes that must be scanned at every step. 355 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 2: The software tracks who handles the materials and when requiring 356 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 2: verification before allowing procedures to move forward. A Kind Body 357 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 2: spokeswoman said at the time that this technology was used 358 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 2: in ninety percent of its labs, and she says that 359 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 2: now it's used in all of them, But former employees 360 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 2: told me the problem was that they weren't properly trained 361 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 2: on how to use it, something that Kind Body disputes. 362 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 2: My story about lab errors at kind Body was published 363 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 2: in October of twenty twenty three, two months after I 364 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 2: spoke with Yana. In it, I wrote about what happened 365 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 2: to Ayana, to Dina and b and to other patients. 366 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 2: I'd learned of multiple incidents of embryos being mislabeled, lost, 367 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 2: or accidentally destroyed at four different Kind Body clinics. After 368 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 2: my article was published, Gina wrote a blog post in response. 369 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 2: It said, in part quote, I'm proud that our doctors 370 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 2: are candid and tell the patient the truth rather than 371 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 2: hide any mistake made by a human in the lab. 372 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 2: We also buy upsided the embryo to ensure its genetic material, 373 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 2: and it came back and euploidy, which meant it was 374 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 2: abnormal and would likely have not have been transferred anyway, 375 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 2: So we didn't have to be honest, but we were. 376 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 2: The outcome would have been the same an unsuccessful IVF cycle, 377 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,439 Speaker 2: which on fortunately happens about one third of the time, 378 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 2: and even the best IVF clinics, including our own. But 379 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 2: Ayana told me she felt robbed of the opportunity of 380 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 2: at least trying to transfer the embryo as planned. When 381 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 2: we spoke about six months after the error was discovered, 382 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 2: she said it didn't matter if it had been abnormal, 383 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 2: that God had gifted them that one embryo and it 384 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 2: was their choice, their chance to take. On top of that, 385 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 2: she had doubts about whether kind body was even telling 386 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,640 Speaker 2: the truth about the abnormality. She kept thinking why had 387 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 2: they jumped to discard the embryo so quickly, Why wasn't 388 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 2: she at least given the chance to transfer, And unlike 389 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 2: other patients who might have sought legal recourse, she said 390 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 2: she felt trapped by her circumstances. 391 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 9: The situation. If it was different people like Americans, it 392 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 9: was different. I think if it happened on you. For example, 393 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 9: I think think it was like not this. Maybe you 394 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 9: sue them, you do something. But I'm a foreigner and 395 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 9: I'm religious, so my situation doesn't allow me to do anything. 396 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 2: Ayana opted to do the free cycle kind Body offered, 397 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 2: but it didn't yield any eggs. By that point, Ayana 398 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 2: was forty. After six IVF cycles and tens of thousands 399 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 2: of dollars spent, she and her husband started looking into 400 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 2: adoption instead. It's really hard to get a complete picture 401 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 2: of what kind of errors may be happening in US 402 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 2: fertility clinics, whether they're at kind Body or anyone else's. 403 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 2: It's not an easy question to answer because, unlike other 404 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 2: types of medical facilities, there is no regulation requiring fertility 405 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 2: clinics to track lost, mishandled, or destroyed embryos, let alone 406 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 2: report them to any public database. There's the Clinical Laboratory 407 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 2: and Provement Amendments, also known as CLIA. It's a federal 408 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,959 Speaker 2: statute that regulates testing and oversees some aspects of an 409 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 2: IVF clinic, like blood and semen testing. But crucially, CLIA 410 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 2: does not oversee the embryology lab, where the most sensitive 411 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:19,360 Speaker 2: material is handled to fill the gap. Nonprofits and industry 412 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 2: groups have stepped in. The big one is CAP, also 413 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,719 Speaker 2: known as the College of American Pathologists. CAP issues guidelines 414 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 2: like how many people should be on staff or the 415 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 2: optimal temperature for the lab. Clinics can get CAP accreditation 416 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 2: if they adopt these measures, and getting the stamp of 417 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 2: approval lends credibility, but that's really it. CAP cannot shut 418 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 2: down a clinic if it finds it's not in compliance. 419 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 2: In short, CAP has no teeth. 420 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 10: There are guidelines, but there are no requirements. 421 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 2: This is Evashennkman again. She's the embryologist who interviewed with 422 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 2: kind Body back when the company was just starting out. 423 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 2: He runs her own embryology school that trains young scientists 424 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 2: who want to go into IVF, and she consults for 425 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 2: clinics that want to open up labs of their own. 426 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 10: Just like you can go to a department health website 427 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 10: and look up physicians record, you can see how often 428 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 10: they have malpractice claims. You don't have that for the laboratory. 429 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 10: You don't know who that wizard is behind the curtain. 430 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 10: Is that somebody you know who's been involved in several 431 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 10: major mix up cases, and even if they're doing something egregious, 432 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,439 Speaker 10: there's no board that steps in and investigates. You know, 433 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,719 Speaker 10: maybe this person shouldn't be working in the lab anymore. 434 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,199 Speaker 10: Maybe we can do some retraining so that this mistake 435 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,959 Speaker 10: doesn't happen again. And that's the part that really started 436 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,120 Speaker 10: to make me angry. 437 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 2: There is no requirement for fertility clinics to report incidents 438 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 2: caused by human error or other preventable mistakes. By contrast, 439 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 2: Eva points out that some countries in Europe have regulatory 440 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 2: agencies that track mistakes. 441 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,199 Speaker 10: One of my colleagues there in Ireland sent me a 442 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 10: text message a couple of weeks ago when we're talking 443 00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 10: about some of the issues here. She's like, you're really 444 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,680 Speaker 10: telling me that you don't have to report if there's 445 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 10: a serious error in the lab, Like there's no proactive 446 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 10: reporting where you get somebody that comes in and investigates you. 447 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 10: I said, no, it is not, and that just blows 448 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 10: their mind. It was really shocking to them, because what 449 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 10: prevents you from making that error once a year, twice 450 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 10: a year every other year. The vast majority of clinics 451 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 10: do a very good job in providing great care to patients. 452 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 10: But also how do we protect against the clinics that 453 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 10: aren't following the rules or following the guidelines. 454 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 2: Many of these errors are never known to people trying 455 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,880 Speaker 2: to decide which fertility clinic to go to. You can't 456 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 2: google their error rates, and looking up a clinic's history 457 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 2: of lawsuits may not be that revealing. Many errors never 458 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 2: make it into the public record because patients sign arbitration 459 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 2: agreements that prohibit them from speaking publicly about what happened 460 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 2: to them. 461 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 11: And what's that about. It's because fertility clinics operate in 462 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 11: such a highly competitive space where a clinic never wants 463 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 11: to be known as that entity that has dropped somebody's 464 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 11: ex or embryos on the ground. 465 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 2: Adam Wolf is a partner at Piferwolf, a law firm 466 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 2: that specializes in fertility cases. Adam declined to say whether 467 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 2: he had cases with kind Body, but he did talk 468 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 2: about the kind of calls he gets all the time 469 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 2: from patients of fertility clinics. 470 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 11: We get calls from people who are just devastated by 471 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 11: the results, usually the failures of their of the fertility 472 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 11: work from their fertility clinic. And sometimes that is just 473 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 11: the natural byproduct of fertility work. It's not always successful, 474 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 11: even under the best of circumstances. But in many of 475 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 11: the occasions where our potential clients call us, what we 476 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 11: uncover is that the failure of a particular IVF cycle 477 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 11: or other work in a fertility clinic is the result 478 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 11: of misconduct or certain types of negligence. 479 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 2: Adam has seen some of the worst mistakes in this 480 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 2: field happen at all sorts of clinics. One of his 481 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 2: clients discovered after she gave birth that the baby boy 482 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 2: she had carried wasn't hers, and she was devastated when 483 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 2: she had to turn the baby over to his biological parents. 484 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 2: Another one of his clients alleged that their clinic let 485 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 2: seven of their embryos dry out, destroying all of them. 486 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 2: The couple sued the clinic, but then reached a settlement 487 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 2: out of court. Adam says, the majority of incidents like 488 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 2: these never become public because. 489 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 11: We end up settling those cases with a confidentiality agreement 490 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 11: that prohibits anybody from talking about that case or those 491 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 11: errors publicly. Now, that makes a lot of sense for 492 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 11: the fertility clinic which wants to hide its errors, but 493 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 11: it creates a big public problem, which is that the 494 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 11: public doesn't know about the vast majority of errors that 495 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 11: we have seen in fertility clinics and that have caused 496 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:07,479 Speaker 11: our clients to suffer. 497 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 2: Coming up on IVF disrupted the Kind Body story. With 498 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 2: Kind Bodies cash reserves dwindling, the question arises, do its 499 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 2: patients really need everything it's selling. 500 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 4: At your white coat ceremony, which is the first thing 501 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 4: you participate in before you start med school. You take 502 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 4: that oath, and that oath is first, do no harm. 503 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 12: My good friend who went through another clinic, she kept 504 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 12: kind of mentioning like because I was like, so, did 505 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 12: you pay for the extra however, couple hundred bucks for 506 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 12: embryo glue? She was like embryo glue. Like I never 507 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 12: heard of embryo glue. And I was like, oh, like, 508 00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 12: we just paid four hundred bucks this round for embryo glue. 509 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 3: I just went through two weeks of medications and traveled 510 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 3: here and spent thousands of dollars for this procedure, and 511 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 3: you're telling me I didn't need to do it. 512 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 4: I'm not a salesperson when it comes to medical care. 513 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 2: IVF disrupted The Kind Body Story is reported and hosted 514 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 2: by me Jackie Devalos. The series is produced by Sean 515 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 2: Len and Jilda Decarly, editing by Caitlin Kenney, Jeff Grocott 516 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 2: and Joshua Brustein. Blake Maples is our sound engineer. Voice 517 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 2: acting in this episode was provided by Diana Johnston, Tina 518 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 2: Marie Murray, and Rosanna Pilcher. Fact checking by Anica Robbins. 519 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Senior Executive Editor for Technology is Tom Giles. Our 520 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,719 Speaker 2: head of podcasting is Sage Bauman. You can reach us 521 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 2: at podcasts at Bloomberg dot net. IVF Disrupted is a 522 00:32:55,400 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 2: production of Bloomberg and iHeart Podcasts S