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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A teen girl, Curly Gregg

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Speaker 1: reportedly shoots mommy in the face and then texts her

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Speaker 1: friends to come see a dead body. In the last days,

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Speaker 1: she hopes to convince a judge she deserves a new trial.

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Speaker 1: With me here in the studio, Jackie Howard, Jackie, what

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Speaker 1: can you tell me?

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Speaker 2: Nancy? Convicted teen murderer Carly Gregg's motion for a new

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Speaker 2: trial went before a Mississippi judge.

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Speaker 1: Her attorney.

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Speaker 2: Based on evidence revealed by her biological father. In an

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Speaker 2: interview to news station w LBT. Kevin Gregg said that

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Speaker 2: his daughter suffered auditory hallucinations as a child and was

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Speaker 2: enrolled in equan therapy. The attorneys claimed that information from

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Speaker 2: that interview would have led to a different decision by

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Speaker 2: the jury.

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Speaker 1: A do over, Yes, a do over, but what were

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Speaker 1: the facts? A trial? Listen?

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Speaker 3: Okay, where is your where's your? Why on the boardroom?

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Speaker 3: She's on the floor in your stepdaughter's room. What do

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Speaker 3: I saying? Actually, Ashley, smile.

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Speaker 1: You?

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Speaker 4: Okay?

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Speaker 3: Can you go out? You can go outside the house

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Speaker 3: and think coming.

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Speaker 1: That gut wrenching nine to one one call of Mommy's

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Speaker 1: husband finding her in the floor, shot in the face.

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Speaker 1: No matter how many times I listen to a nine

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Speaker 1: one one call, when I hear the person calling in it,

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Speaker 1: it's almost disabling for the moment to hear that raw

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Speaker 1: pain in their voice. What more can we learn? Listen?

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Speaker 1: That's mom, that's mom, Yeah, under fail.

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Speaker 3: Mom and dad us got okay Dad, Dad's got thrown

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Speaker 3: on the shoulder. He's already in the abus.

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Speaker 1: Okay. So join me in all star panel that it

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Speaker 1: makes sense of what we know right now. Lauren Colin,

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Speaker 1: first to you, co host Primetime Crime on YouTube. Lauren,

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Speaker 1: who found Mommy?

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Speaker 5: He Smiley found his wife, Ashley Smiley, and that is

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Speaker 5: Carly Gregg's stepfather.

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Speaker 1: So the stepfather finds her. But yet, when we are

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Speaker 1: listening to the ranking County sheriffs on their body cam footage,

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Speaker 1: one deputy says that mom, and this number two says

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Speaker 1: this mom yeah, and then he goes no, she Mom

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Speaker 1: and dad both got it. Mom and dad both got

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Speaker 1: what got hit? Explain Lauren Conlin.

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Speaker 5: So when he Smiley walked into his house, he was

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Speaker 5: met by Carly greg who attempted to shoot him, got

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Speaker 5: him in the shoulder as he fought her off.

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Speaker 1: So immediately on the scene they realize what they think

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Speaker 1: has happened. Straight out to Catherine White and Newman, ranking

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Speaker 1: County assistant district attorney before that, public defender, private practice

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Speaker 1: in a wide variety of cases. Catherine, thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. You know, Catherine, when you hear defense

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Speaker 1: attorneys say there's no playbook for Green, the husband's showing

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Speaker 1: no emotion because he's in so much shock. Did you

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Speaker 1: hear that nine one one call, Catherine.

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Speaker 6: I did, Nancy, That nine one one call is one

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Speaker 6: of the most chilling that I've heard on any type

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Speaker 6: of case. He was in sheer shock and terror. We

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Speaker 6: believe that he was certainly speaking the truth at that moment.

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Speaker 1: You know, that really hit the nail on the head,

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Speaker 1: Katherine White Newman, speaking the truth regardless of emotion, lack

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Speaker 1: of emotion, demeanor response if you can determine if they're

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Speaker 1: telling the truth. And of course we're not lie detectors,

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Speaker 1: but when I hear a nine one one call like that,

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Speaker 1: it sounds genuine to me. Now think about it, Catherine

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Speaker 1: White Newman. I'm sure you're familiar with the Alex Murdoch

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Speaker 1: double murder trial in South Carolina where he was kind

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Speaker 1: of like eh, and then it would go away, and

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Speaker 1: then he goes again. It was kind of an intermittent

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Speaker 1: kind of a whine. That's not what we're hearing right here,

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Speaker 1: is it, Catherine, No, it's not.

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Speaker 6: In fact, at the beginning of the call, the nine

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Speaker 6: one one dispatcher actually thought he was speaking to a woman,

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Speaker 6: and Heath's voice was so high pitched because of the

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Speaker 6: terror that he was in that they again thought he

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Speaker 6: was a woman, and it wasn't until he gave them

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Speaker 6: his name that they realized they were talking to a man.

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Speaker 1: Katherine Waite Newman has actually worked on this case too.

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Speaker 1: Kevin Camp joining us a veteran criminal defense attorney and

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Speaker 1: lead lawyer in the case for Carly Gregg and FYI,

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Speaker 1: just so you know, former JAG military attorney. Guys, he's

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Speaker 1: at Camp Law Firm dot com. Kevin Camp question, how

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Speaker 1: do you somehow what do you do you say to

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Speaker 1: the jury? Look here, not here? How do you do

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Speaker 1: that when that nine one one call is being played

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Speaker 1: in front of the jury. Do you just sit there

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Speaker 1: and pretend like you don't hear it? Do you pull

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Speaker 1: an OJ and act like you're taking notes out when

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Speaker 1: OJ's really writing, I did it, y'all. Okay, So what

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Speaker 1: do you do when you're hearing that nine to one

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Speaker 1: one call?

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Speaker 7: At that point, you're just like what you said, You're

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Speaker 7: you're trying to do something to deflect it away from

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Speaker 7: your client and to move on from those quickly as

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Speaker 7: you possibly can. Sometimes you you have the situation where

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Speaker 7: you know, look at the monkey, you look at the

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Speaker 7: silly monkey over here, and you know, and get whatever,

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Speaker 7: whatever the issue is, you want to get off of

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Speaker 7: that subject just as fast as you can.

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Speaker 5: Oh.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And of course, from what I can understand about

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Speaker 1: your trial record, Kevin Camp, you have certainly schooled your

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Speaker 1: client how to behave in court. Here's a little example.

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Speaker 1: I was trying a murder case. When I came into court,

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Speaker 1: I had not seen it at the arraignment calendar or

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Speaker 1: any of the motions calendars. And I looked. But in

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Speaker 1: a murder case, the defendant had shaved into the back

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Speaker 1: of his head hit man number one. You know how

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Speaker 1: many times I went to the other side of the courtroom,

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Speaker 1: so you'd have to turn around and look that way

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Speaker 1: so the jury could see the back of his head. Well,

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Speaker 1: obviously his lawyer did not school him not to put

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Speaker 1: that on the back of his head. Bottom line, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you have your client schooled how to behave when

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Speaker 1: damning evidence is pouring from the witness stand.

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Speaker 4: Listen, fourteen.

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Speaker 1: Did a fourteen year old girl shoot her mom dead,

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Speaker 1: shoot her stepfather? And if so, why they did everything

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Speaker 1: possible to show her she's loved? And now I understand

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Speaker 1: why Catherine White Newman is saying they thought they were

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Speaker 1: speaking to a woman, because Smiley, the stepfather, is in

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Speaker 1: so much pain and shock from being shot and seeing

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Speaker 1: his wife dead. His voice has gone into a whole

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Speaker 1: another octave and he says, she's fourteen. She ran away.

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Speaker 1: I want to show you some video that we have obtained.

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Speaker 1: That's Carly Gregg and her home. And from a trained eye,

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Speaker 1: I immediately notice everything's spotless. There. She walks out of

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Speaker 1: the view from the Okay, walking back across the den,

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Speaker 1: nothing in her hands. There are the dogs following her around,

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Speaker 1: everything as normal. I see her backpack. Oh, she's coming

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Speaker 1: around the corner with something behind her back. Oh what

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Speaker 1: could it be? Okay, not just one, but I think

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Speaker 1: three gunshots. There's free meditation right there. That's plenty of

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Speaker 1: time to form intent to kill here. She comes back,

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Speaker 1: guns still behind her back and go straight to her phone.

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Speaker 1: Why not, mommy's dead and she's texting. I wonder if

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Speaker 1: that's when she texts, Hey, guys, you want to see

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Speaker 1: a dead body, Come on over now, wait for it,

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Speaker 1: Wait for it? Texting texting Catherine White? Name? Did she

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Speaker 1: actually break out into song?

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Speaker 6: She did, Nancy. She absolutely started homing at some point.

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Speaker 6: And the person she was texting at that moment that

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Speaker 6: was her mother's, her dead mother's phone. She picked up

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Speaker 6: that phone and text her stepdad and said when will

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Speaker 6: you be home?

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Speaker 1: Honey? So she is luring luring the step dad to

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Speaker 1: the scene.

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Speaker 6: That's right, That's absolutely correct. She had her phone there,

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Speaker 6: but she chose to use her mother's to text him

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Speaker 6: to find out when he would be home.

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Speaker 1: Gonna be very tough to show any type of mental

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Speaker 1: defense when she texts the stepdad luring him home so

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Speaker 1: she can shoot him dead.

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Speaker 3: Okay, sir, what her name?

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Speaker 1: Carly? Greg?

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Speaker 3: Carli? Greg? You still have a good homer?

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Speaker 8: He ran.

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Speaker 2: Ran character, burnes, evapestash pot and an angry team. It's

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Speaker 2: an explosive combination that leads to death.

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Speaker 3: I'm not hot in my head, where's.

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Speaker 7: Where's my.

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Speaker 1: Sor you know, it's so hard to hear that raw

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Speaker 1: pain and emotion by the stepdad finding his wife shot

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Speaker 1: in the face, to just the out pouring, the screaming,

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Speaker 1: the crying. She shot her mom and she's going to

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Speaker 1: come back and kill me, And still this nine one

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Speaker 1: one person doesn't seem to understand what's going on. The

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Speaker 1: nine one one dispatch says she killed her mom, and

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Speaker 1: he goes, yes, that's what I've been trying to tell

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Speaker 1: you this whole call. And now she's coming back to

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Speaker 1: kill me. It's really going to be hard to make

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Speaker 1: that mental defect, that mental defense. When we see Curly

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Speaker 1: Gregg fourteen years old, sneaking around the house with a

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Speaker 1: gun behind her back, sneaking into mom's area and shooting

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Speaker 1: mom in the face. There's three gun shots that we

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Speaker 1: hear fired and then go straight to the phone and

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Speaker 1: texts stepdad, hey from Mom's from mom's phone, another layer

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Speaker 1: of deception to lure him home. Let's stay on that

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Speaker 1: one moment when we introed, I heard the words burner, phones, pot,

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Speaker 1: and an angry teen wait a minute, straight out to

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Speaker 1: doctor William Morony, longtime colleague and friend, renown medical examiner, toxicologist, pathologist,

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Speaker 1: opioid treatment expert, and author of a bestseller, American Narcian.

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Speaker 1: It's about saving lives with malaxone dtr moroney, thank you

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Speaker 1: for taking time from the morgue. I can't imagine who

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Speaker 1: wants to tear themselves away from that. But that said,

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Speaker 1: are we really going to blame pot here? That pot

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Speaker 1: casts some kind of a middle defect. You're the toxicologist.

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Speaker 1: I'm not buying it. Help me.

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Speaker 9: There's an awful lot of moral ethical and it's a

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Speaker 9: just a terrible state of American mental health. There's dissociative

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Speaker 9: disease here. Dissociative disease. Let me dumb it down, because

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Speaker 9: I know not everybody's a doctor. The idea that she

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Speaker 9: has a mental health process, that she's disconnected from thoughts, feelings,

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Speaker 9: and identity to make this happen. This violence is the

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Speaker 9: end result of dissociative disease. But guess what six times

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Speaker 9: more likely psychosis with cannabis.

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Speaker 1: So okay, we take hold on. Let me rephrase my question.

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Speaker 1: Can I blame this on POT?

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Speaker 9: Fifty to fifty mental illness and drugs together?

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Speaker 1: Why? Wait now? You're the medical examiner, right, Yes, but

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Speaker 1: it's okay. Do you have a degree that you've kept

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Speaker 1: hidden from me in psychiatry.

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Speaker 9: Yes, I'm writing a book called Sidewalks.

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Speaker 1: Do not have a degree in psychiatry.

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Speaker 9: I did study psychiatry in school, So no, no, I'm

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Speaker 9: going to argue with you. I can make these decisions.

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Speaker 9: I see people mental.

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Speaker 1: I study psychology. I had one person, But that doesn't

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Speaker 1: make me Karen Stark. Good, Okay, I differ. One little

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Speaker 1: rotation with a psychiatric unit does not make you a psychiatris.

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Speaker 1: It's just like my one class in psychology does not

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Speaker 1: turn me into Karen Stark.

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Speaker 9: But I've seen this mental health of twenty years.

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Speaker 1: Using pot is not an excuse for shooting your mother

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Speaker 1: and your step father.

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Speaker 9: What we have what we call three hit hypotheses genetics, environment,

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Speaker 9: and then drugs. You add them all together and you

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Speaker 9: get a terrible combination that leads to disrespective life, to

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Speaker 9: socia of disease, and then violent behavior that breaks laws.

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Speaker 1: This is the breakdown of society.

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Speaker 9: There's not enough mental health here and the lack of life.

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Speaker 1: Dear Lord in Heaven, now you're going to societal breakdown.

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Speaker 1: I know their societal breakdown. Guess what they said that

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Speaker 1: in Roman times there will always be societal breakdown. Okay,

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Speaker 1: not my problem right now. My problem right now is

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Speaker 1: why to Curly Gregg shoot her mother. If she has

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Speaker 1: a mental defect, then I want her in a mental hospital.

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Speaker 1: If she doesn't, I want her to treat it as

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Speaker 1: an adult and tried for murder. It's really black and white,

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Speaker 1: it really is. You're telling me that pot I can

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Speaker 1: blame pot for the murder? Is that what you're saying?

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Speaker 9: It adds to the dissociate disease six times more than

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Speaker 9: natural mental illness. The studies come from Scandinavia. They followed

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Speaker 9: conscripts for twenty years, and the concavia have six times

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Speaker 9: more likely to have psychotic episodes. Period.

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Speaker 1: Are you throwing a Scandinavian study at me and expecting

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Speaker 1: me to let Curly greg walk for murdering her mother

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Speaker 1: and then shooting her steath?

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Speaker 6: No?

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Speaker 5: What hold on?

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Speaker 1: Hold on, Maroney, Katherine White Newman, Isn't it true that

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Speaker 1: just before Curly Gregg shot her mother in the face,

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I heard three gun shots. As you know,

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Speaker 1: you're a veteran prosecutor. Intent can be formed in the

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Speaker 1: twinkling of a moment, the blink of an eye, the

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Speaker 1: time it takes for you to pull a trigger. Under

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Speaker 1: the law, you don't need a long drawn out plan

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Speaker 1: such as poisoning someone over a period of weeks and months,

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Speaker 1: raising the gun, and pulling the trigger under our jurisprudence

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Speaker 1: shows intent. We've got three of those here. But that said,

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Speaker 1: in case the jury doesn't believe me, isn't it true

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Speaker 1: the mom was searching her room and she didn't like it.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly right, Nancy.

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Speaker 6: Not only do we know that because one of Carly's

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Speaker 6: friends came forward to law enforcement that day at school.

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Speaker 6: He had been concerned about Carle's use of burner phones

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Speaker 6: and marijuana t xc vappens, and so he confronted her

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Speaker 6: mom to let her know about this secret life. And

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Speaker 6: we know from Carle's evaluations that mom confronted her on

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Speaker 6: the way home, and then from the video evidence inside

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Speaker 6: the home, we know that mom went over to Carly's

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Speaker 6: side of the house, removed some items, walked back to

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Speaker 6: her bedroom at some point with them in her hand,

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Speaker 6: and then walked back to the bedroom to continue searching.

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Speaker 6: When law enforcement arrived on the scene, and they were

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Speaker 6: able to process the scene. They found four empty vape

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Speaker 6: cartridge boxes as well as Carly's burner phone.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Katherine white Eniman, you've got me drinking from the

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Speaker 1: fire hydrant. Okay, that was so much information, but I

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Speaker 1: didn't want to stop you. Could you say that again

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Speaker 1: and slowly? Because I'm making a flowchart here as to

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Speaker 1: why this girl is not insane. I'm not saying she

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Speaker 1: wasn't depressed, not at all. I'm not saying she didn't

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Speaker 1: have some type of mental issues. Don't all teenagers have

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Speaker 1: some kind of mental issue. But that said, if she's

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Speaker 1: truly mentally ill, I don't want her thrown into GPA

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Speaker 1: general population. I want her treated. But I'm not convinced yet.

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Speaker 1: I have one dead body, a mother, a devoted mother,

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Speaker 1: shot in the face. I have her or tasting her friends. Hey,

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Speaker 1: you want to see a dead body, and this is

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Speaker 1: after she lures at home to shoot him. Now, my

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Speaker 1: original question, Miss Newman, was isn't it true mother was

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Speaker 1: going to search her room? Yes? Absolutely, that's true.

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Speaker 6: Mom had gone into Carly's room. She was currently searching

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Speaker 6: through her room when Carly came in and shot her

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Speaker 6: three times.

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Speaker 1: In the head.

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Speaker 6: From what we learned through law enforcement and also through

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Speaker 6: the trial was that one of Carly's friends was so

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Speaker 6: concerned about her secret life using burner phones as well

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Speaker 6: as these marijuana thhc vappens that he confronted her mom

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Speaker 6: at school that day to let her know that he

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Speaker 6: was concerned about Carly. And so we also know from

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Speaker 6: Carly's mental health evaluations she reported that mom in fact

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Speaker 6: did confront her on the way home about the drug

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Speaker 6: use and the phones. When law enforcement arrived at the

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Speaker 6: scene to process it, they found four empty vaate pen

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Speaker 6: boxes that we assumed that mom had removed from Carly's bedroom.

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Speaker 6: On the video surveillance footage, Mom Ashley Smiley is seen

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Speaker 6: walking to Carly's side of the house and then has

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Speaker 6: something in her hand and is seen walking to her

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Speaker 6: bedroom and back. And so we certainly think that Ashley

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Speaker 6: had found those baked pin boxes and quite frankly, possibly

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Speaker 6: Carly's burner phone before Carly came in and shot her

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Speaker 6: mom three times in the face inside her bedroom.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Carly Gregg back in a

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Speaker 1: courtroom trying to convince a judge she deserves a new trial.

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Speaker 1: What happened?

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Speaker 2: Gunshots ring out? Carly Greg caught on home surveillance running away.

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Speaker 1: What happened? Did you see her running away?

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Speaker 5: Right there?

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Speaker 1: Could I just show that video one more time? And

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Speaker 1: that's from out You're looking through the garage and there

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Speaker 1: she goes. Just so you know, that was dad's blue pickup.

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Speaker 1: That was just Stepdad coming home after she lured him. There, guys,

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Speaker 1: with me and Allstar Pennel, we have the prosecutor on

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Speaker 1: this case, Katherine White Newman, and the defense attorney who

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Speaker 1: still has not given up on Carly Greg. Whether you

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Speaker 1: agree with him or not, that's what our constitution is

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Speaker 1: all about. He cares about one thing and one thing only,

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Speaker 1: doing everything he can within the law. I hope to

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Speaker 1: help his client. And if you're in trouble, that's kind

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Speaker 1: of lawyer you want. But I gotta tell you something,

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Speaker 1: Kevin Camp that text luring the stepdad and then the

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Speaker 1: text going hey guys, what's he dead body? Shooting her

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Speaker 1: mother twice in the face, and there's gotta be some

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Speaker 1: psychological story behind that once in the neck and then

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Speaker 1: shooting stepdad in the shoulder. It's going to be really

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Speaker 1: tough to prove she has some type of mental defect.

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Speaker 1: When when you see that and she runs flight shows

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Speaker 1: evidence of guilt, knowledge of guilt. How do you fight that? Yes,

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Speaker 1: I know she used OLAF, I get it, But how

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Speaker 1: are you gonna blame Pott?

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Speaker 7: She texted her friends because she asked them because she

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Speaker 7: needed help, and so the tech, the text stream from

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Speaker 7: all her friends was dealing with, uh, you know, come over,

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Speaker 7: I need help. Uh, you know, things of that nature.

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Speaker 7: And they became concerned because they thought, you you mean things.

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Speaker 1: Of that nature? Whoopsie? You mean when she said, hey,

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Speaker 1: does a dead body bother you? That that that other

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Speaker 1: text that wasn't a text, that that was not a text?

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Speaker 1: Was okay? What was the text that? What was that?

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Speaker 7: That was when her one of her friends, which you

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Speaker 7: saw the friend running behind Carly in the video, when

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Speaker 7: that friend came over, then Carly made that comp Brooks said,

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Speaker 7: Carly made that comment to her, and so that that's

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Speaker 7: where that comes. That's not the that's not from the Texas.

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Speaker 7: It'd be the second.

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Speaker 1: Person that you know what. I'm glad you clear cleared

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Speaker 1: that up, Kevin Camp. So am I supposed to assume

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Speaker 1: that you think that's not as damning as texting it,

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Speaker 1: she says to her friend, does dead body bother you?

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Speaker 7: The the other the other things that you ask about

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Speaker 7: sort of what's going on and why why we have

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Speaker 7: these opinions on it. It's a mental defect and things

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Speaker 7: of that nature. It's a lot of conversations that she's

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Speaker 7: having with her friends. It's it's convers it's Texas conversations.

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Speaker 7: It's things that she was writing in her diary that

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Speaker 7: give us a glimpse of actually what was going on

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Speaker 7: that nobody knew besides her friends that these issues were

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Speaker 7: out there. And then what you're seeing is everything sort

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Speaker 7: of comes to a head on that March nineteenth day.

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Speaker 7: You have the medication comes into play. You have of

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Speaker 7: she already had issues, she was cutting, there have been

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Speaker 7: cutting issues. There had been a lot of different mental

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Speaker 7: things that were that were all going on, and that's

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Speaker 7: that's where it all sort of comes together. One other

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Speaker 7: thing that I that I want to sort of clarify.

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Speaker 7: They talked about a burner fund. The burner phone is

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Speaker 7: like just an old iPad that they had and that

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Speaker 7: she was able to activate. So it's not like some

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Speaker 7: you know, nefarious phone. It was just one that that

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Speaker 7: she was texting, uh, texting her friends and stuff like

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Speaker 7: that on and and there was a boyfriend that I

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Speaker 7: think she was texting on that that she didn't want

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Speaker 7: her mom to know about, is what I got.

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Speaker 1: So she's using an old iPad that mom and dad

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Speaker 1: have discounted, and she's using that surreptitiously.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, that's what that's when we're talking about a burner phone,

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Speaker 7: that's that's the quote unquote burner phone. And so the

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Speaker 7: person that she's talking to is this. There's a boyfriend

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Speaker 7: who came in and to five that I think she

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Speaker 7: had met him at some mathematics camp up at Mississippi

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Speaker 7: State or something that summer before, and so that that

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Speaker 7: was where the Texas were going, you know, the nefarious

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Speaker 7: Texas that everybody says. She has a burner phone.

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Speaker 1: Listen.

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Speaker 10: Immediately after the shooting, Carly uses her mom's phone to

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Speaker 10: text Heith Smiley, you almost home, honey. Smiley replies he'll

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Speaker 10: be home in about an hour. Carly then sends a

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Speaker 10: text to six friends saying she's having an emergency and

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Speaker 10: needs someone to come to her house. One friend offers

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Speaker 10: to call nine one one, Carly declines. Eventually one friend

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Speaker 10: agrees to come over. When Carly answers the door, she

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Speaker 10: asks the girl are you squeamish around dead bodies, before

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Speaker 10: leading the girl to her mom's body in her bedroom.

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Speaker 1: What are you squeamish around dead bodies? And then takes

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Speaker 1: the friend to go look at mom's body. Catherine White Newman,

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Speaker 1: did that happen? That did happen.

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Speaker 6: One of the other things that has not addressed is

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Speaker 6: that one of the people she was texting with as

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Speaker 6: you just played, offered to call nine on one. She said, no,

404
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Speaker 6: you can't do that. One of the other friends. She

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Speaker 6: also face times with multiple people, so one of the

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00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,959
Speaker 6: other friends reported to law enforcement that he told her

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Speaker 6: don't hurt yourself or someone else, and as soon as

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Speaker 6: he got out or someone else.

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Speaker 1: She said it was too late.

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Speaker 6: She also facetimed with the same friend who had offered

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Speaker 6: to call nine one one, and she said, you can't

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Speaker 6: do that. Our assumption is because we knew that she

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Speaker 6: wanted to try to kill stepdad two, she didn't want

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Speaker 6: her plans interrupted. But she also explained to him that

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Speaker 6: she had fed up again, indicating to us, of course, Nancy,

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Speaker 6: that she did in fact know right from wrong. All

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Speaker 6: of these actions, the fact that she kept telling these friends,

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Speaker 6: I can't tell you why I need you to come over.

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Speaker 6: I just need help.

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Speaker 1: Let's go to Karen Stark, renowned psychologist, TV radio trauma

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Speaker 1: expert consultant at Karenstark dot com. That's Karen with a

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Speaker 1: C if you're looking for her, Okay, Karen. The only

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Speaker 1: other fact I want to throw in is Curley had

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Speaker 1: been on Zoloft and switched to lexipro. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if that had anything to do with it, but I

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Speaker 1: can tell you this, Karen Stark. If it did and

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Speaker 1: the defense is using that prescription drug, everybody in Rikers

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Speaker 1: is going to walk free because they're all going to say, hey,

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Speaker 1: I was on lexipro.

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Speaker 8: Well, Nancy. I read that she was taking a very

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Speaker 8: small dose, and there's no way that that led to

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Speaker 8: psychotic behavior. I also want to talk about a disassociated

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Speaker 8: state that doctor Moroni kept mentioning. There's no way that

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00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 8: she's in a disassociated state. I don't even know where

435
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 8: that comes from. She is very aware of what she's doing.

436
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 8: She knows right from wrong. She knows to take her

437
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 8: mother's phone and to get in touch with his stepfather,

438
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 8: and even use her mother's voice and say, honey, are

439
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 8: you coming back soon. Her own counselor, who saw her

440
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,719
Speaker 8: the day before, said that her mental state was fine.

441
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 8: She knows the difference between right and wrong. She knows

442
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 8: to walk quietly into her mother's room. She understands to

443
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 8: text her friends. She runs away after she attempts to

444
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 8: kill her stepfather. So this is someone who is a psychopath.

445
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 8: This is not a disassociated state. It's not because of

446
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 8: the medicine. It's very very clear. She's an angry teenager

447
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 8: who got caught and decides, well, I'll just go ahead

448
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 8: and kill both of them.

449
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: Lauren Collin joining me co hosts a primetime crime on YouTube,

450
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: which is incredible, Lauren, Lauren, is it true that when

451
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: everyone arrived at the scene, they found mommy dad shot

452
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: three times? Which I'm gonna have to go to Maroney

453
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: on this overkill two times in the face, one time

454
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: in the neck. But Carly greg had laid a towel

455
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 1: over her mother's face.

456
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,479
Speaker 5: That's correct, Nancy, she did lay a towel over her

457
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 5: mother's face. And I just I want to add that

458
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 5: Ashley Smiley was an incredibly devoted parent. Nancy and Carly

459
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 5: greg like Kevin said, was brilliant. She skipped a grade

460
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 5: at thirteen, She scored a thirty on her acts, and

461
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 5: that towel right there, combined with everything else, in my opinion,

462
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 5: does show that she did know right from wrong. She

463
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 5: perhaps did not want to look at what she did

464
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 5: to her mother after she shot her three times in

465
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 5: the face, so.

466
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: She put a towel over her crime stories with Nancy Grace,

467
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: a fourteen year old girl shoot her mom, did shoot

468
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: her stepfather? And if so, why? In the last hours,

469
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: she hopes to convince a judge she deserves a new trial.

470
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: But what were the facts of trial? Listen doctor William

471
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: Marony again, renowned medical examiner, toxicologist, pathologist, and author, Doctor Morony.

472
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: This all starts over vaping and popped. Mom goes into

473
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: the room after getting tipped off by a friend of

474
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: her daughter's and pulls out four vapes empty. Explain what

475
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: that means? What are your thoughts.

476
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 9: It's really important to recognize that THHC is just as

477
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 9: much a drug just because it's legal as something like

478
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 9: amphetamine or OxyContin, and regular exposure re wears the brain,

479
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 9: and you're not dealing with an adult brain of a

480
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 9: twenty seven year old. You're dealing with the brain of

481
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 9: a child. And if there's been THHC involved since it's eleven, twelve,

482
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 9: thirteen years old, you have what we call arrested emotional development.

483
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 9: So this knowing the difference between right and wrong in

484
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 9: a child, that's insane.

485
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: Doctor William Roney chilling in court, and you've got Kevin

486
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: Camp sitting right beside her, standing by her till the

487
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: bitter end. And you see Curly greg the fourteen year

488
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: old girl giggling in court, trying to stifle a giggle

489
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 1: in court after she is accused of murdering her mother. So,

490
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: Kevin Camp, that is damning. What do you do when

491
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: your client starts laughing during a murder trial?

492
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 7: Well, I think it depends on you know what time

493
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 7: you're you're talking. That was a five day trial. There

494
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 7: were numerous times where she was crying when she was

495
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 7: given or when there were a lot of photos and

496
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 7: things that we had we had talked to her about,

497
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 7: but we had not prepared her for those, or we

498
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:26,959
Speaker 7: had not shown them to her, and so when they

499
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 7: came out in court, she became very very emotional about that.

500
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 7: So when if you're asking, you know, you want the

501
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 7: perception is you want your the people to believe that

502
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 7: that this individual is truly concerned about what's going on.

503
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 7: So when you're you're saying she was giggling, I would

504
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 7: have to put that in perspective of when that happened.

505
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 7: I know it wasn't during any of the testimony or

506
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 7: anything like that. Long trials that are very intense.

507
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 1: Kevin. Yes, I never want to be a defense attorney,

508
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: but I have to say I really admire you, you know,

509
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 1: fighting your way out of this paper bag, because she's

510
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: laughing in court and the murder of her mother and

511
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 1: you actually said that you're defending her, and you said, well,

512
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 1: it kind of depends on you know, the testimony at

513
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:26,399
Speaker 1: the moment. Did she not see the gruesome crime scene

514
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: photos of her mother dead, but somehow she manages a giggle.

515
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 7: She doesn't, she's not giggling. Then, in fact, when when

516
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 7: those were being shown, she was, she was crying, she

517
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 7: was visibly upset when all that was happening. As far

518
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,399
Speaker 7: as this giggling, I don't know what time frame we're

519
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 7: talking about, but it wasn't. It certainly was not in

520
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 7: those time frames because I know what her reaction was then.

521
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: The bio dad standing by her and defending her. I

522
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: have just received this motion for a new trial. This

523
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 1: is SOP standard operating procedure. Once you, once the defense

524
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: gets a guilty verdict or in this case, a verdict

525
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: of not insane or mentally ill, you immediately file a

526
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: motion for a new trial and you try to convince

527
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 1: the judge this is just just ruled against you that

528
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 1: he she was all wrong and to give us a redo.

529
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: That rarely happens because no judge, even if they are wrong,

530
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 1: is ever going to admit it. After this is denied,

531
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: then the defense will start a legitimate appeal to a

532
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: higher court. So, Catherine White Newman, what happened at the trial.

533
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 6: I believe that the evidence showed that Carly Gregg was

534
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 6: in fact guilty of murder, attempted murder, and tampering with

535
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 6: physical evidence. We heard from doctor Gugliano as well as

536
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 6: doctor Pickett on behalf of the state, who testified that

537
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 6: Carly Gregg was competent to stand trial, and then that

538
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,359
Speaker 6: Carly Gregg will not in fact insane. At the time,

539
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 6: the judge allowed doctor Andrew Clark to testify on behalf

540
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 6: of the defendant. It's the states argument, and we stand

541
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 6: by this that he actually did not testify to the

542
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 6: proper standard. He did not actually meet the qualifications to

543
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 6: testify as an expert in this case. However, the jury

544
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 6: did get to hear from him. He talked about the

545
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 6: fact that Carly had apparently experienced a disassociated state and

546
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,879
Speaker 6: that she blacked out from the time that she let

547
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 6: her dogs out until the time that she came to

548
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 6: in the sewer. Interestingly, doctor Clark said that his opinions

549
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 6: were just hypotheses, and also there were times that Carly

550
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 6: knew right from wrong during some of her actions, and

551
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 6: so we believe the jury got it right. I mean,

552
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 6: these ladies and gentlemen used their common sense and heard

553
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 6: from these experts, and there was just no testimony that

554
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 6: Carly in fact did not know right from wrong.

555
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 1: Kevin Camp, you just heard Katherine White Newman just off

556
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:10,280
Speaker 1: the top of her head spin out so many seemingly

557
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 1: damning facts. She didn't even have to look at her

558
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: notes for Pete's sake. But Kevin Camp, you are convinced

559
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:22,399
Speaker 1: at this girl, then fourteen year old Curly is ill

560
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: that she has some sort of a mental illness. I

561
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 1: want to hear your defense, because again I do not

562
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: want someone medtally ill thrown in with GP. Tell me

563
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:35,240
Speaker 1: your best shot.

564
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 7: First and foremost. I would say doctor Clark was a

565
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:45,760
Speaker 7: much more experienced psychiatrist than either of the two States

566
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:50,399
Speaker 7: psychiatrists in this situation. In fact, the psychiatrists they used,

567
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 7: which was a doctor Pickett, this was the first time

568
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 7: that he had ever been qualified as an expert. He

569
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 7: had just gotten his qualifications, I believe back in October.

570
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 7: Being said, doctor Clark went through an extensive valuation and

571
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 7: we ruled out different things so we knew she was

572
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 7: in psychopathy. There were different tests and different things that

573
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 7: we looked at on that we knew that this wasn't

574
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 7: a panic situation. So then it comes into a mental illness.

575
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 7: We went back and started looking at what what the

576
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 7: mental illnesses were, what was going on, uh, things of

577
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 7: that nature, some of the stuff that I want I

578
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 7: just want to address this a little bit. Doctor Clark

579
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:35,720
Speaker 7: testified exactly to what McNaughton was. There was no issue

580
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 7: on different standard or anything of that nature. One of

581
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 7: the big issues that came out in the case is

582
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 7: they're actually their expert. Again, the expert who doesn't have

583
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 7: any experience in this case, did a diagnosis of Carly

584
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 7: Gregg's father without ever seeing him. And that's what That's

585
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 7: something that from my understanding is you're the American Medical Association,

586
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,879
Speaker 7: which this doctor is a part of, is you don't

587
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 7: do that. Okay, if you're you do not do a

588
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 7: value You do not do diagnosis of people, especially psychiatry

589
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 7: diagnoses of people that you never examine. There's a rule,

590
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,320
Speaker 7: it's called the Goldwater rule that comes into play. That

591
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 7: being said, the big issue was whether or not she

592
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 7: was bipolar, and she had not been diagnosed with bipolar

593
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 7: at that time. If there's a heredity, so let.

594
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 1: Me understand, you're an answer to the question what instrumental

595
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 1: defect you're saying bipolar?

596
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 3: Man?

597
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: It depressive? Is that what you're saying is your ailment?

598
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 7: Yes, it goes into that. Yes, it goes into that

599
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 7: disassociated state, and it all it all sort of fits

600
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 7: in together on how that works. And that's what uh,

601
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 7: if you take if you if doctor Pickett does the

602
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 7: correct evaluation, does he supposed He's going to come to

603
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 7: the same conclusion that doctor Clark did.

604
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 2: The bit for a new trial made by Carly Gregg's

605
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 2: attorneys cited new evidence and a series of errors at

606
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 2: her trial. As I said earlier, the new evidence was

607
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 2: at Carly's trial, the attorneys conceded that she had killed

608
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 2: her mother and shot her stepfather, but argued at the

609
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 2: time she was legally insane of the crime and had

610
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:29,240
Speaker 2: been suffering from undiagnosed mental illness. A psychiatrist, Andrew Clark,

611
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:33,760
Speaker 2: hired by Carly's defense, testified that she had an unspecified

612
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 2: schizophrenic order. Carley's biological father, Kevin Gregg, told the interviewer

613
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 2: that Carly had suffered from auditory hallucination as a child

614
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 2: and was put into equon therapy to help deal with it.

615
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 2: Among other issues were radical sanctions placed on the defense

616
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 2: by the judge in response to what were willful violations

617
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 2: of discovery, which included two witnesses and limiting the testimony

618
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 2: of others. The motion also questioned the makeup of the jury.

619
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 2: Under Mississippi law, jurors must be twenty one years old,

620
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:12,760
Speaker 2: meaning Carly was much younger at fifteen than her jury

621
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 2: of peers.

622
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 1: In the end, the Mississippi.

623
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:19,800
Speaker 2: Judge denied the motion for a new trial, saying that

624
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 2: no new information was revealed in the interview with Carly's

625
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 2: biological father. The court ruled quote. This court specifically finds

626
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 2: that no new and material has been discovered which probably

627
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 2: would produce a different result at trial, and by reasonable diligence,

628
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 2: this evidence could not have been discovered sooner. The Court

629
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,320
Speaker 2: reviewed these statements and finds these statements would not have

630
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 2: probably produced a different result at trial.

631
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off Goodbye Friend,