1
00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:13,320
Speaker 1: This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

2
00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:18,360
Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You

3
00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,919
Speaker 1: can't predict anything. The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to

4
00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:24,800
Speaker 1: you by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging

5
00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,240
Speaker 1: deer stands, or scouting for ELP. First Light has performance

6
00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,440
Speaker 1: apparel to support every hunter in every environment. Check it

7
00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,360
Speaker 1: out at first light dot com, f I R S

8
00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:40,680
Speaker 1: T l I t e dot com. Today, we're making

9
00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:42,960
Speaker 1: good on a promise we have back in our studio.

10
00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:47,840
Speaker 1: Historian and author Hampton Sides, who joined us on an

11
00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,440
Speaker 1: episode to ninety eight what number we on?

12
00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:50,640
Speaker 2: No?

13
00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:55,880
Speaker 3: Five five thirty something by forty something.

14
00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,120
Speaker 1: Joined us a long time ago on an episode probably

15
00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:03,040
Speaker 1: the best name to episode we ever had, cooking Captain Cook,

16
00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,560
Speaker 1: and at that time we were we kind of went through, uh, Hampton.

17
00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,000
Speaker 1: We went through your what do you call one's collection

18
00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:11,880
Speaker 1: of books.

19
00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:17,840
Speaker 3: Your body of work, you're that's something. There's a couple

20
00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:18,400
Speaker 3: of extra.

21
00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:21,960
Speaker 1: We went through his body of work, and towards the

22
00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,360
Speaker 1: end of the interview, we're kind of Throughout the interview

23
00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,080
Speaker 1: we talked about what you're working, what right, what you

24
00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:32,560
Speaker 1: then were, what you then were working on now, which

25
00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,480
Speaker 1: was a book about Captain Cook. And I think that

26
00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:37,319
Speaker 1: even at the time I had shared with you that

27
00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:40,400
Speaker 1: I had been to Hawaii, been to Hawaiian passed By

28
00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,720
Speaker 1: where Captain Cook was killed, where he ultimately met his end,

29
00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,600
Speaker 1: and I was there last week, and kids.

30
00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,840
Speaker 3: Wow, you're so tan. Now now I understand why.

31
00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:52,720
Speaker 1: We had a laugh where I said to my kids,

32
00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,680
Speaker 1: were driving by fishing for on os the wahoo, which

33
00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,560
Speaker 1: they call os in Hawaii, and I yelled to my

34
00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:03,840
Speaker 1: kids over the very loud boat engine of my friend's

35
00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:08,400
Speaker 1: diesel boat engine and yelled, that's where Captain Cook got killed.

36
00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,040
Speaker 1: And my kids, half paying attention, one of them said,

37
00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:16,400
Speaker 1: oh awesome, and that became kind of the joke for

38
00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:20,640
Speaker 1: the day. But so we said we're going to come back,

39
00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:22,680
Speaker 1: that we were going to have you back when you

40
00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,400
Speaker 1: finished your book. And the book is now out and

41
00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:30,600
Speaker 1: available publishes on April nine, called The Wide Wide Sea

42
00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:36,360
Speaker 1: Imperial Ambition, First Contact and the Fateful Final Voyage of

43
00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:41,440
Speaker 1: Captain James Cook. And if you are interested in pre

44
00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:48,120
Speaker 1: contact contact era Alaska Hawaii, which wind up being coupled

45
00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,720
Speaker 1: together in unexpected ways. Still today, I find so much

46
00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,280
Speaker 1: cross cultural exchange between Alaska and Hawaii. They kind of

47
00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,280
Speaker 1: have a Pacific thing going on. This book explores it.

48
00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:03,680
Speaker 1: We're going to discus Austin UH today. I haven't. I

49
00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,000
Speaker 1: usually try to. I do a pretty good job. I

50
00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:13,320
Speaker 1: usually try to read read books before we talked about them.

51
00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,280
Speaker 1: But I haven't gotten to it yet. But you have

52
00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:18,240
Speaker 1: such a trusted track record, I'm just gonna come out

53
00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:19,239
Speaker 1: right now and say it's good.

54
00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:21,560
Speaker 3: Well, that's good to hear. There's nothing worse than those

55
00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:23,600
Speaker 3: who claim they've read it and then you find out

56
00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,200
Speaker 3: they haven't. You know, so your honesty is appreciated.

57
00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:27,760
Speaker 1: No, I can't. I can't lie to you, but I

58
00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,160
Speaker 1: can just based off your your body of work, your oo,

59
00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,520
Speaker 1: based off your ouvoy, I can tell everybody it's great.

60
00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,600
Speaker 1: And we're going to dig in on it, and we're

61
00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:42,960
Speaker 1: going to discuss the conflicting reports of of uh, whether

62
00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:48,839
Speaker 1: or not Captain Cook was indeed consumed. When we talked

63
00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,560
Speaker 1: about Cook and I didn't know the did you tell

64
00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:54,040
Speaker 1: us the details of it last time?

65
00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,800
Speaker 3: About the I think we hinted at it, but I

66
00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:57,839
Speaker 3: wasn't drawing.

67
00:03:57,560 --> 00:03:59,320
Speaker 1: To a little heart detail.

68
00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we may have mentioned it. We'll get into

69
00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,360
Speaker 3: it a little conflicting accounts, yes, conflicting accounts, But I

70
00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:07,760
Speaker 3: just wanted to just say thank you for getting the

71
00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,800
Speaker 3: name right, Captain Cook. So many people have said to me, oh,

72
00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:12,320
Speaker 3: you're writing a book about Captain Hook.

73
00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,360
Speaker 1: Oh, you know the pirate we'd had you on a

74
00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:16,760
Speaker 1: long time ago.

75
00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,520
Speaker 3: The parrot on his shoulder, you know, the that's probably

76
00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,920
Speaker 3: Steve's kids thought he was talking Captain Hook.

77
00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,320
Speaker 1: He was bad guy, Captain James Cook. You know, I

78
00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,520
Speaker 1: find it when we get into the heart story, I'll

79
00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:32,760
Speaker 1: touch on this more, but I find that I'll touch

80
00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:34,400
Speaker 1: on it fully right now. We're gonna tell a heart

81
00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:35,960
Speaker 1: story in a little bit. We got to a couple

82
00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:41,560
Speaker 1: things to touch on first, and then, uh, you're familiar

83
00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:46,760
Speaker 1: with who was it? Was it Gall after the Battle

84
00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,400
Speaker 1: of a Little Big Horn? I think it was Gall.

85
00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:58,760
Speaker 1: Papa Sue Warrior after the Battle a Little Big Horn.

86
00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:03,479
Speaker 1: I believe he claimed to he told some people that

87
00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,599
Speaker 1: he had eaten a bite of Tom Custer's heart. So

88
00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:13,520
Speaker 1: George Armstrong Custer fought and died with his brother at

89
00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,240
Speaker 1: the Battle a Little Big Horn, and Tom Custer had

90
00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:21,160
Speaker 1: once arrested like took into custody. The Sioux warrior Gall

91
00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:26,280
Speaker 1: and pissed him off, and he claimed in the years

92
00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,359
Speaker 1: after the battle, he claimed to have taken a bite

93
00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:33,000
Speaker 1: of Tom Custer's heart, and then later, maybe on second thought,

94
00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,640
Speaker 1: said no, I was just kidding. So was he telling

95
00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:40,640
Speaker 1: the truth when he said he's just kidding, or was

96
00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,159
Speaker 1: he telling the truth when he said he took a

97
00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:43,120
Speaker 1: bite of Custer's heart.

98
00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,680
Speaker 4: Whenever I do something like that, I mean not Oftentimes,

99
00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:49,960
Speaker 4: if I change my story, it's because I'm embarrassed by

100
00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:51,200
Speaker 4: what I initially admitted to.

101
00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,520
Speaker 1: And I, yeah, I'm just kidding. Yeah, I didn't really

102
00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:56,480
Speaker 1: know how you're going to receive that. So he had

103
00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,240
Speaker 1: a Gall had another quote, we're not here to talk

104
00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:05,280
Speaker 1: about battle, little Egghorn. But Gall had another quote where, man,

105
00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:06,640
Speaker 1: he said a bunch of things. He's the one that

106
00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:08,960
Speaker 1: said how long the battle took? That it took about

107
00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:10,760
Speaker 1: as long as it takes a hungry man to eat

108
00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:14,960
Speaker 1: his meal. And then later a crow scout for Custer

109
00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:18,279
Speaker 1: later said, no, I was there, but I got away,

110
00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:21,920
Speaker 1: and Gall said to him, you must have turned into

111
00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,440
Speaker 1: a bird if you're saying you were there and you

112
00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:31,240
Speaker 1: got away. Oh, you know what, this is the final

113
00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,839
Speaker 1: So this is the final mention. There was a big

114
00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,040
Speaker 1: debate about whether or not see I made up this

115
00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,520
Speaker 1: new saying. It's a new old saying. A fresh set

116
00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:44,360
Speaker 1: of eyes will find more beans. And we've talked about

117
00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:46,400
Speaker 1: it a fair bit. People have. I thought it had

118
00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,960
Speaker 1: app you know, finance applications, but we heard from people

119
00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,479
Speaker 1: who were playing it in the medical field finance. I

120
00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:57,880
Speaker 1: thought it was catching on, yeah, law forensics. Yeah, I

121
00:06:57,920 --> 00:06:59,920
Speaker 1: thought it was really catching on, and people were trying

122
00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,640
Speaker 1: down on their wives and pissing their wives off. And

123
00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:04,960
Speaker 1: we made the shirt, but the shirt didn't sell out,

124
00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:07,200
Speaker 1: which makes me think this didn't catch on.

125
00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:09,920
Speaker 2: Well, No, I think it was a timing issue. I

126
00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,520
Speaker 2: think that if we would have had the shirt earlier.

127
00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,720
Speaker 1: You see my shirt film. Yeah, oh like the shirt,

128
00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,480
Speaker 1: like the saying had come and gone. Well not, I

129
00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:19,680
Speaker 1: don't think old sayings do.

130
00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:24,560
Speaker 3: We can't see the bottom of your computer. Yeah, that

131
00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:25,040
Speaker 3: looks great.

132
00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:30,280
Speaker 2: They they've I think they've like sixty something percent sold out.

133
00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:34,840
Speaker 2: We didn't make that many, so go get them. Folks

134
00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:35,440
Speaker 2: who maybe.

135
00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,920
Speaker 4: Don't looking at that shirt and trying to figure it

136
00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:41,880
Speaker 4: out without reading any of it.

137
00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,960
Speaker 1: And I just thought it was like a political or

138
00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:49,120
Speaker 1: rival might be tiptoe into like it looks like you're

139
00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,400
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, yeah, like it might be like a little

140
00:07:53,440 --> 00:08:00,240
Speaker 1: revolutionary yep, uh it was, uh yeah, other other areas there.

141
00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:02,080
Speaker 1: I was telling a story about being out a bus

142
00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,000
Speaker 1: in Memphis, and someone said, you always gotta be careful

143
00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,280
Speaker 1: when you tell Memphis but stories. But yeah, the fist,

144
00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:13,920
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, yeah, okay, Oh, here's the interesting thing

145
00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:17,800
Speaker 1: that's out. This is cool. You guys might remember when

146
00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,120
Speaker 1: we had a bunch of the anthropologists and archaeologists on

147
00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:26,960
Speaker 1: after doing our Bison Clovis point experiment where we worked

148
00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:33,760
Speaker 1: with researchers from Kent State for that's about Kent State.

149
00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:41,400
Speaker 1: Research was from Kent State, Southern Methodist University, Oregon State University,

150
00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:46,600
Speaker 1: right yeah, and they were doing we were doing research,

151
00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,720
Speaker 1: and we were the participants in the research where we

152
00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:56,320
Speaker 1: butchered an entire gutted, butchered, boned out an entire buffalo

153
00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:03,439
Speaker 1: using ice age style stone points, particularly using Clovis points

154
00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,400
Speaker 1: and other flakes, and butchered the whole damn thing. I

155
00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:06,800
Speaker 1: thought we were gonna be there into the night. I

156
00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,480
Speaker 1: brought I brought like lighting. I think we'd ever get

157
00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:14,000
Speaker 1: out of there dude, we're done in four hours. Pusher

158
00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,800
Speaker 1: the whole thing out in order to that the researchers

159
00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,880
Speaker 1: could then do the serious work of analyzing after they

160
00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,040
Speaker 1: were cleaned up. Our friend John Hayes from Hayes tax

161
00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:28,679
Speaker 1: at Deermy Studio did the bone work on it in

162
00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,440
Speaker 1: order to help interpret ice age kill sites. Meaning when

163
00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,000
Speaker 1: you go to an ice age kill site, twelve thousand

164
00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,800
Speaker 1: years go by and all this left is chunks of

165
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:41,200
Speaker 1: bone and chunks of stone, nothing else is left. You

166
00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:44,160
Speaker 1: can't talk to anybody, all the soft tissues gone, things

167
00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:48,360
Speaker 1: have been gnawed on by animals. So we were providing.

168
00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:52,200
Speaker 1: We were helping to create a sort of set of

169
00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:55,600
Speaker 1: stone and a set of bone where they knew what

170
00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,240
Speaker 1: happened to the stone and bone, and you could take

171
00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:02,959
Speaker 1: this information and help analyze ice age kill sites. Meaning

172
00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,880
Speaker 1: when you see that mark on a bone, what led

173
00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:07,840
Speaker 1: to that mark on a bone? When you see a stone,

174
00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,360
Speaker 1: when you see a chunk of stone flake maybe embedded

175
00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:15,280
Speaker 1: in bone, or or a chunk of stone tool that

176
00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:19,000
Speaker 1: had broke and was discarded and it's laying there and

177
00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,480
Speaker 1: you're thinking, well is that there because they used it

178
00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:25,640
Speaker 1: to kill the animal and it's laying inside their ribcage

179
00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:28,719
Speaker 1: or was that laying there because they use it to

180
00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,120
Speaker 1: cut up an animal? Meaning did they maybe find an

181
00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,360
Speaker 1: animal and cut it up? Did they kill an animal

182
00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,320
Speaker 1: with projectile points? When we see a Clovis point, we

183
00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,079
Speaker 1: think that it was on a spear. Is there a

184
00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,920
Speaker 1: chance that that Clovis point was actually a knife? These

185
00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,040
Speaker 1: are all great mysteries, and anybody's the papers out now.

186
00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:49,480
Speaker 1: I got excited for a minute when I got that

187
00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:54,400
Speaker 1: form letter. It had me down as doctor. Steve even

188
00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,400
Speaker 1: said it's just a form letter, though, and I made

189
00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,199
Speaker 1: the mistake of insulting Seth by saying, how everybody is?

190
00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,640
Speaker 1: I already told Seth this and apologize to him. I

191
00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,920
Speaker 1: don't know what this means. I said, everybody was doctor,

192
00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,240
Speaker 1: even Seth? The hell does that mean?

193
00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:18,480
Speaker 4: I think the implication is somewhat obvious, even Seth.

194
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:21,760
Speaker 1: I sent it a craction and I said, hey, just

195
00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:23,040
Speaker 1: heads up. You know you got a lot of people

196
00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,040
Speaker 1: down as doctors that ain't. And he said, no, that's

197
00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:27,760
Speaker 1: just a form letter from the journal. Don't worry. You

198
00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:29,960
Speaker 1: won't be credited as being a doctor. But Randy, you

199
00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,679
Speaker 1: could actually be a doctor. Well, if they just three

200
00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:37,080
Speaker 1: years for some reason. Yeah, next time. So the article's out,

201
00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,040
Speaker 1: we're how do you find it, Krin.

202
00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,640
Speaker 2: We're going to have a link to the article in

203
00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,600
Speaker 2: the show notes, and we're also gonna have it prominently

204
00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:50,199
Speaker 2: on the website.

205
00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, study is massive, over twenty thousand words. For

206
00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:55,640
Speaker 1: you people that used to read The New Yorker bag

207
00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,880
Speaker 1: in the nineties, that would be a big that's like

208
00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,520
Speaker 1: a that's like when they do like the history of

209
00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:07,400
Speaker 1: dirt in the New Yorker. Twenty thousand words, thirty one figures,

210
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:11,560
Speaker 1: twelve data tables and eight supplemental data files. That's supposed

211
00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:16,680
Speaker 1: to get people excited, Krinn, that's supposed to get Google fires.

212
00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,520
Speaker 1: This from people at home are like, wow, thirty one figures.

213
00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,240
Speaker 4: Ordinarily only get three supplemental data files.

214
00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:25,760
Speaker 2: Those are for all the nerds out there.

215
00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:27,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, Chrins, you get a job writing copy.

216
00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:27,719
Speaker 2: No.

217
00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,480
Speaker 1: Twenty thousand words, thirty one figures, twelve data tables and

218
00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,120
Speaker 1: eight supplemental data files.

219
00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:38,240
Speaker 2: Call now, now most of that, most of that is

220
00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,920
Speaker 2: from Meton. I asked him to put in what he

221
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,080
Speaker 2: thought would be important to highlight and that I mean

222
00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:46,840
Speaker 2: that that that sums it up for people who speak

223
00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:48,240
Speaker 2: the science language.

224
00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,679
Speaker 1: But uh so worried about that. It's fascinating and I

225
00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:53,439
Speaker 1: liked it and I want to do more, and we slept.

226
00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:54,840
Speaker 1: What we needed to do is I wanted to do

227
00:12:54,880 --> 00:13:01,520
Speaker 1: the MOE where we caught up a person because hey, listen,

228
00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:04,839
Speaker 1: Clayton sent me an article the other day about out

229
00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:09,920
Speaker 1: of Prince Wales Island in the caves finding ten thousand

230
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,280
Speaker 1: year old bare bones, and I think you said something

231
00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,800
Speaker 1: about some human remains that seemed to have been gnawed on,

232
00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,800
Speaker 1: and I'm like, gnawd on ten thousand years later? You

233
00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:28,920
Speaker 1: sure it wasn't something else? Live Tour. Live Tour kicks

234
00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:33,959
Speaker 1: off April twenty third. What's it right now? Ninth, tenth, eighth, eighth,

235
00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,599
Speaker 1: whatever the hell? Live Tour kicks off April twenty third, Mace, Arizona.

236
00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,520
Speaker 1: From Mace, Arizona, we go to We do April twenty

237
00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:46,120
Speaker 1: third is Masa, Arizona at Mesa Arts Center. From there,

238
00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,360
Speaker 1: we do three shows in California. So we're creating a

239
00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,559
Speaker 1: safe space for hunters and angers in California where you

240
00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:55,360
Speaker 1: can come share your real lived experience about being a

241
00:13:55,400 --> 00:14:02,800
Speaker 1: hunter or an angler. San Diego and Sacramento go to

242
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:13,360
Speaker 1: Salt Lake City, Boise, Missoula, Portland, Tacoma. I missed anything, Maca, Spokane. Yeah,

243
00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,040
Speaker 1: so it goes like this, check me on this Mesa,

244
00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:34,280
Speaker 1: San Diego, Anaheim, Masons, San Diego, Anaheim, Sacramento, Salt Lake City, Boysey, Missoula, Spokane, Spokane, Portland, Tacoma.

245
00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,640
Speaker 1: Mister Clay Nukeomb will be there for all the shows.

246
00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,080
Speaker 1: We've got a lot of other people coming in and

247
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,120
Speaker 1: coming out, coming going, Bro, are you gonna make it

248
00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,440
Speaker 1: for You're gonna come over for the Missoula show for sure.

249
00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,080
Speaker 1: Hell yeah. Every ticket gets a signed copy of the

250
00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,760
Speaker 1: Meat Eater Outdoor Cookbook, which is a brand new release.

251
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,600
Speaker 1: Actually the tour is during the release week, so every

252
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,960
Speaker 1: ticket comes with a signed copy. We're gonna have you'll

253
00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:00,240
Speaker 1: learn stuff, you'll laugh, You'll you have a POTENTI to

254
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:04,200
Speaker 1: win some great stuff. So looking forward to seeing everyone there. Also,

255
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,040
Speaker 1: we got a new thing going me Eater Experiences. So

256
00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:08,400
Speaker 1: this kuy of a long story. I don't want to

257
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,040
Speaker 1: spend too much time on it. I've been spearfishing down

258
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:16,240
Speaker 1: out of Venice, Louisiana, and I became friends with Renee

259
00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:21,160
Speaker 1: Cross at Cypress Cove Marine and lodge and we hit

260
00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,320
Speaker 1: on this idea we're gonna take over his whole place

261
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:29,000
Speaker 1: and do a big fishing party. So that's kicking off

262
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,720
Speaker 1: in October. Me He's gonna be down there, Yanskna be

263
00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:34,080
Speaker 1: down there, Klay's gonna be down there, a bunch of

264
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:38,160
Speaker 1: other people coming and going, and we're filling up spots

265
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:43,600
Speaker 1: for that. You can go sign up to come down.

266
00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:47,640
Speaker 1: We're gonna clean fish together, fish together, do stuff at night,

267
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,440
Speaker 1: have a lot of talks, a lot of laughs each

268
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:55,280
Speaker 1: Each setup is three days of fishing offshore inshore April fifteenth.

269
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,520
Speaker 1: You can go check out those me Eater experiences at

270
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:03,160
Speaker 1: the me Eater and then we also have a waterfoul

271
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,480
Speaker 1: one coming up in the winter which should be able

272
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:10,000
Speaker 1: to check out as well. Uh. Pad Dirkin wrote in

273
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:13,760
Speaker 1: pad Dirkin remains the only man in the world who's

274
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:18,400
Speaker 1: wolf neutral, so we like to check him with wolf

275
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,320
Speaker 1: neutral people now and then. Yeah, they just don't have

276
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:25,520
Speaker 1: a real soapbox the wolf neutral person. Is it an

277
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:30,680
Speaker 1: agnosticism or no? No, it's like, uh no, well not apathy,

278
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,280
Speaker 1: because that would imply not staying up with the Yeah,

279
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,120
Speaker 1: pad Dirkin is the only guy in the world that

280
00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,000
Speaker 1: can listen to wolf stuff from either side and be like,

281
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:38,920
Speaker 1: it'll work out.

282
00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:44,120
Speaker 5: He doesn't fly into a rage either way.

283
00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:48,080
Speaker 1: He Uh, what what Pat got wanted by this is

284
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,119
Speaker 1: that risk of annoying you? Yet another wolf neutral column,

285
00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,440
Speaker 1: This one explained his column He's out our columnist. This

286
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:58,320
Speaker 1: one explains why how Wisconsin's hunter trapper hunters and trappers

287
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:03,000
Speaker 1: killed two eighteen wolves in three days in February twenty one,

288
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,359
Speaker 1: but needed ten weeks to kill two hundred and fifty

289
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:12,359
Speaker 1: seven wolves in twenty thirteen. Mystery being the number of

290
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,800
Speaker 1: wolves on the landscape didn't change, he says, mostly though,

291
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:20,040
Speaker 1: my review springs from a conversation with Al Hofacker, my

292
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,520
Speaker 1: first boss at Deer and Deer Hunting magazine in the

293
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:27,239
Speaker 1: early nineteen nineties, who nearly died last year from the

294
00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:29,879
Speaker 1: tick born disease which I have not heard of. This

295
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,040
Speaker 1: is me editorializing. I'm reading Pat, but I'm editorializing by

296
00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,399
Speaker 1: me to have not heard of it. Babe ciosis. Anyone

297
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,040
Speaker 1: heard of this? Babsiosis, babasiosis.

298
00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,840
Speaker 5: I just looked it up and it infects red blood cells.

299
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:48,080
Speaker 1: Now I got I got waylaid bad by uh trick

300
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,040
Speaker 1: or no, I got bad by tricknoses. I got waylaid,

301
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,720
Speaker 1: I got waylaid somewhat bad by trickinnosis, and waylaid bad

302
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:58,040
Speaker 1: by lime. And my boy got waylaid so bad by

303
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:00,840
Speaker 1: lime he developed Bell's palsy, milk could run off the

304
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:01,560
Speaker 1: corner of his mouth.

305
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:02,440
Speaker 5: Horrible.

306
00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,600
Speaker 1: Uh, that was long editorization. Back to Pat quote. He

307
00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:08,760
Speaker 1: got me laughing when he said he'd rather die in

308
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,880
Speaker 1: a wolf attack because it would cause less suffering, while

309
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:18,240
Speaker 1: making him famous as get this, people, the first Wisconsin

310
00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:22,240
Speaker 1: knight in history killed by a wolf, meaning that's yet

311
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:27,439
Speaker 1: to happen. That inspired us his pat still talking. This

312
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:31,080
Speaker 1: is an interesting tidbit that inspired me to dig into

313
00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:40,159
Speaker 1: Wisconsin's costs damages from tickborn diseases versus wolf attacks on livestock, pets,

314
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:46,960
Speaker 1: and bearhounds. Guess what, Wisconsin. Guess what their costs and

315
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:53,160
Speaker 1: damages are from tickborn diseases annually. I'm gonna beat the table.

316
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:55,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna beat this book on the table for this

317
00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:06,680
Speaker 1: twelve million annually in ticks native wildlife. The tick costing

318
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:11,160
Speaker 1: Wisconsin twelve bill an Now, take a stab at over

319
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:16,480
Speaker 1: the past five years the average annual cost of wolves.

320
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,399
Speaker 1: I can't really beat the book about this. No, you

321
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,919
Speaker 1: can beat a book about how low something is? Right, Yeah,

322
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:30,040
Speaker 1: one and seventy seven thousand dollars or I don't know

323
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,760
Speaker 1: what pats? And again I started to feel like Pat's

324
00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:37,560
Speaker 1: not wolf. I think Pat's a wolf apologist dressed up

325
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:42,840
Speaker 1: in sheep's clothing, Cambell, He's masquerading as a wolf neutralist.

326
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,280
Speaker 1: Twelve million in tick damages one hundred and seventy seven

327
00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:55,800
Speaker 1: grand and wolf damages whatever, Pat whatever? Pat the last

328
00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:59,200
Speaker 1: of the outdoor columnists. We should be nice to Pat

329
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:04,760
Speaker 1: Durkin because when he dies the old outdoor columnists, I

330
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,560
Speaker 1: don't even want to say it. The pet's far from death.

331
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:17,040
Speaker 1: He still runs marathons, and I shouldn't say that. Yeah,

332
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,520
Speaker 1: I should put a tick in his put put a

333
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:21,720
Speaker 1: tick in his underwear or something. And while it'd be

334
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,560
Speaker 1: like how you like them ticks? Now, Pat? Maybe like

335
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,679
Speaker 1: did I say I didn't? Did I say I like ticks?

336
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,120
Speaker 1: In episode five eighteen, you were talking about old fur

337
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,720
Speaker 1: price list that had bobcat wildcat links and links cat

338
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:40,240
Speaker 1: pricing and wondered why they had so many different names

339
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,479
Speaker 1: for bobcats in those days. This is when we had

340
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,280
Speaker 1: a links researcher on. Carmen van Bianki from Home Range

341
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 1: Wildlife was on talking about a project in the Washington

342
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,560
Speaker 1: state of collaring links, which I need to They caught

343
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 1: four mm. They caught three males and a female. I

344
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,919
Speaker 1: need to announce the other two winners have dang it.

345
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,160
Speaker 1: They caught four. They're all done for the year. They're

346
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 1: very happy to get a female. Linx and this guy shed.

347
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 1: This guy says he was talking to old fur buyer,

348
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,919
Speaker 1: third generation fur buyer, and he had an explanation for

349
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,800
Speaker 1: why all this crazy nomenclature. He told me that in

350
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,760
Speaker 1: the old days, wildcat was the general name for any

351
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:27,920
Speaker 1: of the smaller wildcats like bobcat, lynx, and oslot. So

352
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 1: the sort of bucket term was a wildcat, bobcat, lynx,

353
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:38,160
Speaker 1: oslat Linx was what was used in the old days.

354
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:39,359
Speaker 1: So we're talking about, you know, you go back to

355
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:41,920
Speaker 1: the twenties and thirties. Lynx was used for what we

356
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 1: still call links today. Bobcat was used for western and

357
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:55,160
Speaker 1: coastal bobcats that tend to have dull colors and coarser fur.

358
00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 1: Linx cat was used for the brighter colored with more

359
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 1: silk like fur found on Western bobcats, like high planes.

360
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:09,360
Speaker 1: Western bobcats the ones that are super valuable today. They

361
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:13,440
Speaker 1: did this because of very noticeable differences between Western bobcats

362
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,439
Speaker 1: and those Eastern coastal bobcats. So at the time they

363
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 1: believe there are different species. Meaning if you look at

364
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,919
Speaker 1: a bobcat from Michigan all dull, no good spots, and

365
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 1: a bobcat from high elevations in Nevada, you'd be like, well,

366
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 1: they can't be the same thing. They gotta be different,

367
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 1: So they just call them these different names. Now people

368
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 1: would catch them and get excited when they see bobcats

369
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 1: or whatever listed for super high price, so they came

370
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,439
Speaker 1: up with this different name just to try to denote

371
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 1: different fur qualities qualities, he says. The Idaho Fur Sale

372
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:53,199
Speaker 1: still lists Western and Eastern bobcats in different categories on

373
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 1: their sale average price list. This is so trappers still

374
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,640
Speaker 1: can have a better idea what their bobcats should sell for,

375
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 1: since the Eastern bobcats will be lower than the overall

376
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 1: average results, giving Eastern trappers a false high expectation and

377
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 1: Western trappers a false low expectation of what it's all worth. Hence,

378
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,479
Speaker 1: when you're looking at something You're like, how did they

379
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 1: have all these cats in those days that no one

380
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 1: knows about anymore. I don't want to spend time on this,

381
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,159
Speaker 1: but Krin thought this was interesting. This is pretty common

382
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,160
Speaker 1: that someone dies you put their ashes and shotgun shells.

383
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 2: I didn't know that was.

384
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 5: Common among a small group of people.

385
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 3: Meaning.

386
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 2: We've ever talked about it.

387
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 1: But I have heard of it. Hunter Thompson, Hunter S.

388
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 1: Thompson had his loaded in like artillery shows. Sorry, where's

389
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:51,959
Speaker 1: that big shell behind est?

390
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 2: Back there?

391
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: Yes, on the load we put all this in that.

392
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

393
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 2: I feel like you've talked about ways that you'd like

394
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 2: your remains to be used to change so that it's

395
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 2: not included, and you don't want to.

396
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 5: I thought it was you want to become a piece

397
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 5: of carrion.

398
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 1: Well, I did want to get scavenged by bears. But

399
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: I'm kind of thinking now. I was looking at the

400
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,360
Speaker 1: prices to get buried in the Twin Lake Cemetery where

401
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 1: I grew up. You get in the ground in for

402
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: six hundred bucks. But if you want to get back out,

403
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 1: guess they charge if you want to get out six

404
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: hundred to get in thirteen hundred to get out. That's

405
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: not bad. No, to change your mind a lot more

406
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 1: for an exhamation. Someone changes their mind. I got to

407
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 1: fork over thirteen hundred to get you back out of

408
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: the ground. I might do that. I'm gonna go there

409
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 1: and look next time I'm over there. A guy rode

410
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 1: in a big explanation of why we shouldn't be dogging

411
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: on these monkey farms are trying to put in down South,

412
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: getting everybody all worked up. People in Texas are worked up,

413
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 1: people in Georgia are worked up about these giant mo

414
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: monkey farms they're building to supply the research facilities. Turns

415
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: out no one gets excited about a monkey farm in

416
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: their neighborhood, but he gets into some of the things

417
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 1: that are going on. The US medical world is in

418
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 1: critical need of Reeseius macause China has halted. He's talking

419
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: about here's why this is going on. China has halted

420
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 1: a large number of exports of these primaries primates to

421
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,199
Speaker 1: the country in retaliation of the current trade wars with

422
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: the US, which are gonna get a lot worse. Next November,

423
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 1: no next January, January sixth, when when Trump's back in office,

424
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: is gonna get a lot. The trade wars are gonna

425
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: not worse. The trade wars are going to intensify when

426
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 1: Trump's back in office, and I imagine it's going to

427
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: lead to probably even fewer monkeys running around. And then

428
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: there's another thing that what was the earth thing? You said,

429
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:12,719
Speaker 1: there's another thing leaning to all this monkey problem. Come on,

430
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: help me out here. You put it down.

431
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 2: The USDA said, Now, well, I'm not sure what's in

432
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 2: your mind that.

433
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: Monkeys supplying demand.

434
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like there's there was some producer and monkeys

435
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 4: right here, the minerals.

436
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, there were some geopolitical things that led to this

437
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: monkey crisis. So when you people are saying you don't

438
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: want a monkey farm next door, keep in mind that

439
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,880
Speaker 1: there were geopolitical constraints that have led to the Reese's

440
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: monkey shortage. Right.

441
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 2: And here's the The USDA sends inspectors who are vets

442
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 2: at random times, unannounced, at least once a year.

443
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: He was selling us on how safe these monkey farms are.

444
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 1: Right then he said, don't use my name, you know,

445
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: but it's.

446
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 2: Not it's not it's not for that. He just doesn't

447
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 2: want to be attacked by you know, wealth.

448
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: The reesis mccaus are vital for testing vaccine efficacy, novel

449
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: cancer treatments, and various other life saving research projects that

450
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 1: most are one universities and pharmaceutical companies. As someone who

451
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 1: has worked in biomedical research for all of my career

452
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: for t ten universities, I can tell you that the

453
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: need for these primates is indeed very dire. So when

454
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: they go to put a big monkey farm in your yard,

455
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 1: keep that.

456
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 2: In mind, humans versus monkeys.

457
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 5: They need to round up those wild ones running around

458
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 5: in Florida.

459
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: I did not I did not pass judgment on the

460
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: need for Reese's monkeys. I just said, and I just said,

461
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: it sure seems like people don't want monkey farms down

462
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 1: the road. Yep, that's abundantly clear. People freak the classic nimbiism.

463
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 1: But he goes on to say, I can tell you

464
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: one thing that ain't gonna happen is these monkeys ain't

465
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 1: gonna be getting out. And biosecurity is taken in very

466
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: seriously with tons of oversight from the federal government. So

467
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: if you trust them folks at the federal government, this

468
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 1: is not He's just saying, this is not like a

469
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: little like it's not like a hobby monkey farm.

470
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 5: Gone and shut it down.

471
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, it's a it's a highly regulated tons

472
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: of oversight, meaning I don't think these people should plan

473
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: on being like, oh God, there's a monkey in the yard.

474
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: You never know, never know. We put on hold. We're

475
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: gonna talk all this later. Probably about a dozen people

476
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: wrote in with like, here's how I needed my own

477
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: cat than that.

478
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 3: Actually, yeah, we're.

479
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: Gonna put that on hold in order to talk more

480
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: about cap and Cook again. Ham, if you forgot Hamp

481
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: the sides is your author of the brand new The

482
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: Wide Wide Sea? First off, why the Wide Wide Sea?

483
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: The name it is big it's.

484
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 3: A quote from Coloradge who wrote this poem, you know,

485
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 3: the rhyme of the ancient mariner and uh, scholars.

486
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 2: That.

487
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 3: Sounds like something's that one would do. No, it was

488
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 3: just it's Uh. Colors was influenced by Cook's three voyages

489
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 3: around the world. And uh uh it's about a captain

490
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 3: who's got having an existential crisis, which Cook was on

491
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 3: this third voyage. Because the book is about his third voyage.

492
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 1: He had final voyage, his.

493
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 3: Final voyage literally and figuratively, and uh, things do not

494
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 3: go well, as you allude to earlier. Near the end

495
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 3: of his voyage, things go horribly wrong and he is

496
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 3: you know, hacked to pieces on the beach in on

497
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 3: the big island of Hawaii. So so's it's a title

498
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,719
Speaker 3: just sort of getting that the psychology of a captain

499
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 3: who's a little tired, who's having some problems medical, medical, mental, physical,

500
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 3: and maybe even spiritual.

501
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: You know, can you can you blained? This is set

502
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 1: just to set it up, can you give me his

503
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: give us his time frame? And and just quickly, what

504
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: were the first two voyages? Yeah, like where where he's from?

505
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: And when?

506
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 3: And and well you know, so you do so Captain Cook.

507
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 3: I mentioned earlier that I think a lot of Americans

508
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 3: get him mixed up with a lot of other captains

509
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 3: sort of real and imaginary, whether it's you know, Captain

510
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 3: Kidd or Captain Hook, Uh, Captain Kirk, Captain Kirk of

511
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 3: the of the of the what which is it's you laugh?

512
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 3: But uh? In fact, Captain Kirk was influenced by was

513
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 3: influenced by, I mean, was actually based on Captain Cook

514
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 3: uh and real. So his first voyage was the Endeavor

515
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 3: instead of the HMS Endeavor you know it was the

516
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 3: US S Enterprise. Uh and Captain James Kirk Captain James Cook.

517
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean there is there is a direct correlation.

518
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: What I thought you said you're writing a book. I

519
00:30:57,920 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: thought you were having a problem where you're writing a

520
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: book about Captain Cook and people are like, oh, I

521
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: love star start right right.

522
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 3: And then there's, of course there's Captain Crunch.

523
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: I got a bone to pick with that on bitch,

524
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: because when you eat laceration, yeah, you can run through

525
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: a box like that.

526
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 3: I remember those days a lot of sugar. So Captain

527
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 3: Cook was probably the quintessential Enlightenment era explorer, one of

528
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 3: the greatest explorers of all time, no matter what you

529
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 3: think of his voyages were, or him as a man

530
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 3: or of course, he's very he's very controversial today, especially

531
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 3: indigenous people all over Polynesia have decided they hate him

532
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 3: and that he's a symbol of colonialism, and they ripped

533
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 3: down his statues everywhere.

534
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: But back then and for well, they did a little

535
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: bit of exploring themselves.

536
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 3: They were masters at it.

537
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 5: When you say back then, what was his like time period?

538
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 3: His time period was his voyages were in the seventeen sixties,

539
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 3: in the seventeen seventies.

540
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: That's an era that me and Randall are intimately familiar

541
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: with in Tucky. Okay, Yeah, that was a thrill out

542
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: of the Long Hunters.

543
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's about the only place he didn't get to, right,

544
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 3: But that's.

545
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: How we focused there. We didn't want to overlap with

546
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: the work.

547
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 3: Yeah. But he, I mean, what's great about him, what

548
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,719
Speaker 3: I love about him is that he came from virtually nothing,

549
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 3: unlike a lot of these captains who had money or

550
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 3: influence or connections. He got there by sheer hard work

551
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 3: and intellect and genius and came up as he was

552
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 3: a poor farmer who apprenticed to become a to be

553
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 3: part of the Merchant Marine.

554
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 6: But British born, British, British in Yorkshire, and he was

555
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 6: really good at everything that to do with navigation, astronomy, cartography,

556
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 6: and he ended up that's really his true genius was maps.

557
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 3: He made beautiful maps, maps that are like chillingly accurate,

558
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 3: often on the fly. He mapped Nova Scotia, and if

559
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,719
Speaker 3: you super impose a satellite image of Nova Scotia on

560
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 3: the map that he made of Nova Scotia back then

561
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 3: in the seventeen hundreds is just exact. It's like, how

562
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 3: did he do it?

563
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: Just with celestial navigation and handheld equipment right, like right, astrolabes.

564
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 3: And surveying tools and triangulation and trigonometry, you know. But

565
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 3: so his first two voyages around the world were first

566
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 3: to search for this great super continent that was all

567
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 3: these scientists believe there had to be this massive continent

568
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 3: in the southern hemisphere to counter balance all the land

569
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 3: masses that are predominantly in the Northern hemisphere.

570
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 1: Counterbalance in weight.

571
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, they actually thought that the planet would spin off

572
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 3: in endo outer space.

573
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: It wasn't a good balance sphere.

574
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was just it's a crazy idea.

575
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: It's like getting the getting the leads on your tires, right, yeah.

576
00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, It's like Terra Australis incognita, which was the name

577
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 3: of this mythic super continent that did not exist. But

578
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 3: Cook was sent to show to find it, and he

579
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 3: did find Australia. It had been spotted by another guy

580
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,720
Speaker 3: named Abel Tasman before, but he charted the entire east

581
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 3: coast of Yeah, that's where we get Tasmania.

582
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 1: Hung his name on Tasmania.

583
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, but he Cook mapped the entire east coast of Australia,

584
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 3: and along the way had all sorts of other adventures

585
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 3: in Polynesia and ran aground on the Great Barrier Reef

586
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 3: and nearly nearly sank his ship. The endeavor that was

587
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 3: his first voyage. The second voyage was another attempt to

588
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 3: find this super continent, and he nearly made it to

589
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 3: Antarctica and kind of intuited the existence of Antarctica. But

590
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 3: even Antarctica and Australia combined would not be anywhere near

591
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 3: as large as this super continent that was. It was

592
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 3: just one of these crazy scientific ideas that the people

593
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 3: in the Royal Society believe eved in, you know, So he.

594
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: Proved it, like kind of when had people more thoroughly

595
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 1: given up, even though they've picked it back up again,

596
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,800
Speaker 1: when had they thoroughly given up on flat Earth?

597
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:13,919
Speaker 3: Well, there's still people today.

598
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: It's like a new goofy thing now.

599
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 3: But yeah, I don't know, I probably a little earlier,

600
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 3: probably in the probably in the sixteen hundreds.

601
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: Okay, So that was that was a dead idea at

602
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 1: this time.

603
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 3: Now they their their astronomy was amazing at that point.

604
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 3: And Cook that was his other great talent was he

605
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 3: was an amazing astronomer. He also had this new tool

606
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 3: by the second voyage that changed exploration dramatically, and this

607
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 3: was a little thing called a chronometer. And uh, the

608
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 3: chronometer told that what was the time in Greenwich, England,

609
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 3: And that allowed people, Uh, it's too complicated to explain that.

610
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 3: That allowed people just by looking at this clock, you

611
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 3: could figure out figure out longitude and that was the

612
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 3: hard thing. That couldn't figure out. They latitude they could

613
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,720
Speaker 3: figure out easily, but longitude was this puzzle. And once

614
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 3: you figure out the coordinates of a place, a Cook

615
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 3: was able to know exactly where he was anywhere in

616
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 3: the world and put that on a map, and these

617
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 3: maps were published and then suddenly all these places that

618
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 3: he discovered or rediscovered could never again hide from the

619
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 3: eyes of the world. And so this is one of

620
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 3: the reasons Polynesians hate him so much, is that they,

621
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,399
Speaker 3: you know, kind of had lived in splendid isolation for

622
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:33,240
Speaker 3: centuries and millennia and now you know, he just posted

623
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 3: the address.

624
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's yeah, it's an interesting point, Like it's it's obvious,

625
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 1: but I'd ever thought about before that you could see something, right,

626
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: But from then you could see something and very specifically

627
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 1: say where it was, rather than say, we sailed kind

628
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 1: of west for two weeks and then you'll find this

629
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: little thing maybe.

630
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, like Tasmin. We mentioned Tasmin earlier. He had he's

631
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 3: been a lot of these places, but he didn't know

632
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 3: where he was and he couldn't report back in it

633
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 3: with any confidence what he had seen or where these

634
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 3: places were. So so Captain Cook has the chronometer and

635
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 3: that change. That changes a lot. But he also, uh,

636
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 3: he was a scientist. He was he was interested in

637
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 3: these people that he encountered in the first two voyages.

638
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 3: I mean his descriptions of Polynesians and uh Australian Aborigines

639
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 3: are devoid of I mean the kind of you know,

640
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 3: uh eurocentrism that you you see in so many other explorers.

641
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 3: He he he just described what they wore and what

642
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:36,879
Speaker 3: what they looked like, and uh you know what they

643
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 3: ate and uh, you know, just was trying to get

644
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 3: it down in a kind of objective neutral way.

645
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 1: Is his is his writing is clumsy to read, as

646
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: when you read the unedited journals of Lewis and Clark.

647
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 3: Uh, he wasn't a writer. That's for sure. But the

648
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 3: weird spellings, yeah, there I and I did kind of

649
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 3: do some light editing. I mentioned in the author's note

650
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 3: that there's some you know, I got rid of the

651
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 3: ye's and the ampersans, and the weird capitalizations and the

652
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 3: you know, strange spellings. There was no uniform spelling back then,

653
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 3: so some of these things are very hard on the

654
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 3: eye and on the ear to follow as you're reading them.

655
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 3: But so, yes, But but he was he was considering

656
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 3: that he really was self educated. He was quite a

657
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 3: good writer, and I quote a lot from him, but

658
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 3: I also quote from I mean, there were one hundred

659
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 3: and eighty people on this voyage in two ships, and

660
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 3: anyone who was literate was writing down in their journals

661
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 3: what they were seeing and experiencing, including just massive amounts

662
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 3: of sex. I mean, you know, all these books that

663
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 3: I've written, my friends always say, well, you need to

664
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 3: have more sex in your books, and I you know,

665
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 3: death marches and you know, explorations in Siberia, whatever. Now

666
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 3: now I got a book that has more sex. I mean,

667
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 3: orgies on the beach, orgies on the ship, down in

668
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 3: the holes of the ship, these Polynesian women, and this

669
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:06,399
Speaker 3: is something I.

670
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 1: Said, who's describing this?

671
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 3: Everyone and they're not worried.

672
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,800
Speaker 1: They don't like, they don't put that little puritanical clean

673
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:13,439
Speaker 1: up on it.

674
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 3: Not at all except for Cook himself, who was said

675
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 3: is said to be and I believe it's true, never

676
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,399
Speaker 3: did partake in this sort of thing. But I mean

677
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 3: all the officers and all the I mean most of

678
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 3: the sailors on the ship were sixteen seventeen, eighteen years old,

679
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 3: and they were they were horny, and they certainly the

680
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 3: Polynesians had very different ideas about about sex, and they

681
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,439
Speaker 3: were very curious about these strange people that just washed

682
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:39,320
Speaker 3: up on their shores.

683
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 1: So they had to have left all kinds of progeny.

684
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 3: Uh yes, although I'm you know, I never met anyone

685
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 3: who directly claimed to be one. And I did go

686
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 3: to almost you know, as many of these places as

687
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 3: I could go. Not a hardship research aspect to this.

688
00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 3: Warm places, yeah, warm places, I mean cool, interesting place

689
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 3: this New Zealand, both North and South Island, you know, Tasmania,

690
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 3: French Polynesia, Hawaii of course Alaska. Interesting places. And I

691
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:14,879
Speaker 3: mean just this is just the third voyage. Cook went

692
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 3: just about everywhere was he was he.

693
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 5: A celebrity in his own day, Like were people clamoring

694
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 5: to be on these expeditions by this.

695
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,959
Speaker 3: Time the first voyage was over and they came back. Yes,

696
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 3: he had become a celebrity. Uh, you know, he was

697
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 3: sitting for the best painters in London and he was

698
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,919
Speaker 3: becoming becoming a member of the Royal Society and going,

699
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 3: you know, he met King George the third, and you know,

700
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 3: he was becoming very much a celebrity, and he hated that.

701
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 3: He was awkward around it. He was intrigued by it

702
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 3: a little bit, but uh, he just wanted to get

703
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:51,839
Speaker 3: right back out on the next voyage as quickly as

704
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 3: he as he could.

705
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 1: Before we get to number three, how long were these

706
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:56,959
Speaker 1: How long were voyages one and two? Like he's gone,

707
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 1: these are multi year trips? Correct, Yes, they were between

708
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 1: three and four years. They It just takes forever to

709
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: get down there and get back.

710
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,439
Speaker 3: Uh. You know, all sorts of hardships happened along the way.

711
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 3: The ship, you know, mass break and they have to

712
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 3: repair and so forth. These ships took forever, and the

713
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 3: thing was back then any kind of voyage that lasted

714
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 3: longer than you know, one hundred or two hundred days,

715
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 3: usually people started dying of scurvy. Scurvy was the you know,

716
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 3: kind of like an occupational hazard of any long voyage.

717
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 3: Cook seemed to have figured out scurvy. He didn't precisely

718
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 3: know what food was doing the trick or what you know,

719
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 3: what in the diet was was was the what was

720
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 3: the secret? But not a single person died on any

721
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 3: one of his three voyages of scurvy.

722
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:52,399
Speaker 1: Because of was it locke He just was better about

723
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 1: food or it was it was a little did he

724
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: know it was a food?

725
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 3: It was, yes, he understood that. And there had been

726
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 3: a sky to scientists who had shown that lime juice

727
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 3: or lemon juice could help with scurvy. But it wasn't

728
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 3: it wasn't that so much. Cook main idea was, you know,

729
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 3: salt foods, salted meat, salt like pemmican and salted pork,

730
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:24,800
Speaker 3: uh and uh, you know, vinegar and just kind of

731
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 3: all all the food that they gave them that kept

732
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 3: kept on the ship. He tried to get away from

733
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:35,839
Speaker 3: that as much as possible and make his men eat

734
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 3: fresh vegetables, fresh fruit, fresh meat. And he just pounded

735
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 3: that into the everyone's mind to stop eating the salt

736
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,320
Speaker 3: pork and start you know, you know, hunting, go hunting,

737
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 3: go fishing, get wild berries, get wild celery, you know,

738
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 3: wherever you can find it. And uh, I think that

739
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 3: was the real secret.

740
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, so set up the third voyage. Well, the third

741
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: voyage is like and also included like who's.

742
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:10,439
Speaker 3: Who is right? Right? Good question. So the real sort

743
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 3: of prime mover and architect behind many of these voyages

744
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 3: was this dude named Sandwich, Lord Sandwich the inventor or.

745
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 3: He was the inventor of the sandwich. He was really

746
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 3: do you really buy that? How do you invent the sandwich? Well,

747
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 3: here's the deal. He was very very busy and very

748
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 3: very uh he was a workaholic and uh he uh

749
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,959
Speaker 3: didn't have time to eat, so he would just stick

750
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 3: a piece of meat between two pieces of bread and

751
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 3: that was his meal and people somehow decided to start

752
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:48,959
Speaker 3: calling it the sandwich. He was he was the first

753
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 3: Lord of the Admiralty, was a very powerful guy. He

754
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 3: was also interested in the science and the exploration that

755
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 3: was going on, and he's certainly one of the you know,

756
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 3: important people to about in terms of who was paying

757
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 3: for this. The Admiralty paid for a lot of this.

758
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 3: The Royal Society, which was a scientific society, also paid

759
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 3: for a lot of the scientific work because there were

760
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 3: scientists on board, botanists, you know, uh, expedition artists and uh,

761
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 3: you know these were these were very well staffed, well

762
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,919
Speaker 3: manned expeditions. Were they paying.

763
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 5: For these expeditions like just out of like interest in

764
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 5: knowing what's out there? Or was it more of like

765
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 5: an angle, like let's find some stuff to take over.

766
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,919
Speaker 3: Both you know, everything there. Every chess move that they're

767
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 3: making in the world is calculated to to beat the French,

768
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 3: to beat the Spanish, to beat the Dutch, to beat

769
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 3: the Russians, and so that is, you know, there's an

770
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 3: imperial chess game going on here. That is certainly a

771
00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 3: big part of it. But they also are Creek of

772
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 3: the Enlightenment. They believe in publishing all this stuff and

773
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 3: to a wide audience. The maps that are produced by

774
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 3: these voyages are incredibly accurate, whereas like the Russian expeditions

775
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 3: were laughably almost cartoonishly wrong, you know, because they had

776
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:21,919
Speaker 3: their own interests they were trying to protect. So I'd

777
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:23,720
Speaker 3: say Cook kind of had a foot in both worlds.

778
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:27,399
Speaker 3: He understood that he was a creature. He was doing

779
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 3: the bidding of empire, but he also was genuinely curious

780
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,439
Speaker 3: about these places and getting them accurately on the map

781
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 3: and describing them accurately. And then, oh my god, the

782
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 3: published volumes, these giant folio sized volumes of Cook's third

783
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 3: Voyage ended up with three of these volumes with beautiful

784
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 3: engravings and maps and descriptions of animals and plants that

785
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 3: had never been seen before by Europeans. It's amazing. And

786
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 3: so there is that scientific element that's pretty extraordinary.

787
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 1: But he didn't have a sort of he didn't have

788
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: as an overt desire to loot, as say the Spanish

789
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 1: coming into the Spanish coming into Mexico.

790
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,320
Speaker 3: You know, there were a couple of places along the

791
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 3: way where he was supposed to come ashore and raise

792
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 3: the British flag and claim these lands for the crown,

793
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 3: for King George. And he hated this whole rigmarole. I mean,

794
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 3: he understood that it was rather absurd when you're on the

795
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 3: other side of the world to sort of say, these

796
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 3: people who were watching off and they'd be watching the

797
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 3: ceremony not knowing what the hell what's going on. There

798
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 3: was a little clause in his instructions that said, you're

799
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 3: supposed to do this with the consent of the natives,

800
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 3: you know, you know, like, oh yeah, you can take

801
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:55,879
Speaker 3: over our country, our continent, our island. It was rather

802
00:46:55,920 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 3: absurd he did. Some might call it looting, but I

803
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 3: mean he did stop along the way many places, and

804
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:06,320
Speaker 3: he needed food, he needed water, he needed timber.

805
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: Uh.

806
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,319
Speaker 3: And he got it one way or the other, either

807
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 3: through trade or or through uh bullying his way, you know,

808
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,359
Speaker 3: into into getting the things he needed to keep going

809
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 3: on the voyage. But you know, when people say he

810
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 3: was a colonizer, you know he really wasn't a colonizer.

811
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 3: He never left a single person behind. Uh. He was

812
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 3: the maybe you could say he was the leading edge

813
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 3: of colonialism because the first act of colonialism, I guess

814
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 3: you've you got to discover these places first, or rediscover them.

815
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 3: The word discovery is a very controversial word in this

816
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 3: in this business, because of course there were people there already.

817
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:46,919
Speaker 1: Who discovers discovered for his culture.

818
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 3: Right right, so you kind of have to say, you know, European,

819
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 3: first European to discover. But and and the Polynesians were

820
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 3: of course one of the greatest long distance voyagers of

821
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 3: all time. And but you just got to be careful

822
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 3: with the word discovery. Yeah, I understand all that. Yeah,

823
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 3: But so he was. There was something a little off

824
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 3: about Captain Cook in the Third Voyage.

825
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,440
Speaker 1: And that's getting back going into it.

826
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 3: Going into it, he wasn't the same captain. People have

827
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 3: wondered what was wrong with him, If he had a

828
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 3: parasite from all the weird foods that he ate, if

829
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 3: he had bipolarism. I mean, some of his actions on

830
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 3: the Third Voyage have been described by some clinical psychologists

831
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 3: as being classically bipolar age. Well, he turns fifty on

832
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 3: the voyage, he's forty eight, I think when they leave London,

833
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 3: and by the way, they leave England at Plymouth. Actually

834
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 3: in July of seventeen seventy.

835
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 1: Six, something else happened that summer.

836
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 3: A lot is going on in Boston that July. The

837
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 3: Empire is freaking out about this revolt in America and

838
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 3: they are sending their best explorer that same month to

839
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 3: the other side of North America. The ultimate objective of

840
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 3: this third Voyage, I didn't even say it is to

841
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 3: find the Northwest Passage over Canada, over Alaska, and because

842
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 3: this is something the British has been looking for forever,

843
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 3: usually from the Atlantic side. Now they're going to try

844
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 3: it from the Pacific side. Go up through the Bearing

845
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 3: straight using these very murky Russian maps that had been

846
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:35,240
Speaker 3: produced by Bearing, and try to find this Northwest passage,

847
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 3: this great, you know, fabled waterway that the British were

848
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 3: always obsessed with.

849
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:53,799
Speaker 1: Ca can you pause from it to help you understand

850
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: the problem with it. I mean, it's there, it's just icy.

851
00:49:58,480 --> 00:49:59,319
Speaker 3: Right right.

852
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,279
Speaker 1: And of course, so they would go, you'd routinely go

853
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 1: and be like, just get locked in the ice, right.

854
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,319
Speaker 3: Like exactly, you get locked in the ice and you

855
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 3: start eating boot leather and you know, you know, people

856
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:11,799
Speaker 3: starve and die. Yeah, and it's there, right, It was

857
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 3: always there, and in fact it is many summers now

858
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 3: you can.

859
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:17,840
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, it's all of a sudden a

860
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 1: new object of interest. Yeah, those books be a lot

861
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:20,399
Speaker 1: different now.

862
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 3: Yeah.

863
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 1: They'd be like, oh, yeah, no problem exactly.

864
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 3: So it was looking looking for something that was there,

865
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 3: but it was impractical and nearly impossible to get through.

866
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 3: And during that time these ships were nominally reinforced for

867
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 3: the ice, but not I mean they couldn't withstand the

868
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 3: pressure of the pack like an icebreaker could today.

869
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 1: So he thought by coming in on the Pacific side,

870
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 1: off the Bearing Sea, you might get funneled into the

871
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 1: right route somehow.

872
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:50,720
Speaker 3: I don't know that he actually believed any of this stuff.

873
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 3: There were a bunch of scientists in the Royal Society

874
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 3: who did. And there see, they're trying to find a

875
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:01,360
Speaker 3: short cut across North America to get to China for trade,

876
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 3: and also to avoid the Spanish, who dominated of South America.

877
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 3: So they didn't want to go under and around South America.

878
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 3: They wanted to go over North America to avoid the Spanish.

879
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 3: So that's kind of what's going on. He had determined

880
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 3: that this giant super continent did not exist in the

881
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 3: southern hemisphere, and now they're asking him to go solve

882
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 3: this other huge puzzle.

883
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 1: What a long I mean, people got to stop and

884
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 1: think about what a long way around.

885
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 3: I know, I know it's over a year to get there, and.

886
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 1: I mean across the Atlantic down to the around the

887
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 1: Southern Tip, down around Patagonia and then well actually the

888
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 1: way back. They did it.

889
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, this time they did. They go You know, he

890
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:49,360
Speaker 3: did that once as well, but on the third voige,

891
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 3: he went around uh, you know, Cape of Good Hope

892
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 3: and Cape Town. But still, I mean, it's it's just

893
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 3: it's the entire you're spanning the globe.

894
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 1: Okay, And he went Okay, just to get to the.

895
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 3: Point where he began to look. He starts mapping North America.

896
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:10,720
Speaker 3: It makes landfall at present day Oregon, and it starts

897
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 3: mapping or what we call Oregon, Washington, British Columbia, Vancouver Island,

898
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 3: all of Alaska. He maps, He gives the first he

899
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:22,360
Speaker 3: gets the first map of Alaska, and it's amazingly accurate.

900
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 1: And do you know where where does he land? What

901
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 1: kind of places in Alaska's he touched and ground? You know?

902
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 3: Well, the most famous place that he went to was

903
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 3: cook Inlet, you know present day side of Anchorage. He

904
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:36,760
Speaker 3: goes all the way to the end of cook Inlet.

905
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 3: It's called cook Inlet. By the way, he never named

906
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 3: a single place after himself. When you see Cook's name

907
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 3: on something, it's because somebody back in England put it

908
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 3: on a map.

909
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 1: Why would he go way into cook Inlet?

910
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:51,839
Speaker 3: Well, at first, it's very wide, it starts to look like, uh,

911
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,799
Speaker 3: it sort of looks like a waterway, I mean, you know,

912
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:59,319
Speaker 3: and it was. It was early summer and it was

913
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 3: rushing with glacial melt and snow melt, and he thought

914
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 3: it communicated, maybe communicated with the north end of Alaska,

915
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 3: and some of the natives people that he met seemed

916
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 3: to suggest that so, and then some of his officers

917
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 3: were really excited. It's like, this is it, this is

918
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:20,759
Speaker 3: the holy Grail. We found it. And of course it

919
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:23,400
Speaker 3: peters out at tapers. You've been there probably right. It

920
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 3: tapers and then it just kind of becomes a couple

921
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 3: of tributary rivers. But so that's one famous place, Prince

922
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:38,840
Speaker 3: William Sound, which he named. He also went to un Alaska.

923
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 3: He went to, I don't know, the entire west coast.

924
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 3: He went all the way to what we now call

925
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:49,239
Speaker 3: Point Barrow, Alaska, and that's where he encountered ice. He

926
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 3: nearly got stuck in the ice permanently. I mean, he

927
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,800
Speaker 3: would have died. They both ships would have been crushed.

928
00:53:55,960 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 3: And he decided to turn around and go back to

929
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 3: that wonderful little archipelago that he had stumbled upon earlier

930
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 3: in the voyage that we know as Hawaii.

931
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 1: And how is he behaving you're saying he's like a

932
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,360
Speaker 1: little off, but had he done things along the Alaska

933
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: coasts that were off?

934
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 3: Well, the Alaska part of the trip is kind of

935
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:23,839
Speaker 3: classic Cook. He's back to doing what he loves to do,

936
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:27,400
Speaker 3: which is mapping and figuring out this enormous puzzle, and

937
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:30,319
Speaker 3: he was pretty happy, and he was pretty It was

938
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 3: embroiled in puzzle solving. You know, it was earlier in

939
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 3: the voyage in Polynesia where he was acting very strange,

940
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 3: using the lash in a way that was just cruel

941
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 3: to his own man, and being cruel to the indigenous

942
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:50,320
Speaker 3: people that he encountered, cutting people's ears off and doing

943
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 3: these really sadistic things that nothing like that had happened

944
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 3: on his first two.

945
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:57,480
Speaker 1: Voids, like on his way to Alaska in Polynesia, stopping

946
00:54:57,480 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: at places and yeap doing this.

947
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:03,840
Speaker 4: No, when the obviously all these actions are being recorded

948
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 4: by people on the ships.

949
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:07,440
Speaker 3: Are they.

950
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 4: Hypothesizing that something's different about I mean? Or is it

951
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 4: looking back now in hindsight, there's more and more speculation

952
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:21,400
Speaker 4: about his well being. But like, were people on board

953
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:23,280
Speaker 4: writing something's very different?

954
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 3: No, the people on board are asking the same question,

955
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 3: what the hell is wrong with the captain, especially the

956
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 3: ones that had been on the previous two voyages. They're

957
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:35,799
Speaker 3: like this, you know, I don't know if it's his

958
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 3: celebrity had gone to his head. He's more arrogant, he

959
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 3: was more peremptory and just like making decisions without explaining.

960
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 3: He was not as collaborative he was. And of course

961
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 3: the British Navy at that time, I mean you could

962
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:54,280
Speaker 3: say he's becoming more like a typical British naval captain

963
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:57,240
Speaker 3: because these were I mean, this was a cruel world

964
00:55:57,239 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 3: that they operated in and most of them were like that.

965
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:03,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, you were like judge Jerry and executioner, right.

966
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 3: Master and commandership yeah yeah, yeah, And so so you

967
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 3: could say that he was sort of becoming he just

968
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 3: he just become another European naval naval captain by that point.

969
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 3: But it was also in pain.

970
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 2: Uh.

971
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 3: He had sciatica, the intense pain. Uh that It's very interesting.

972
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:30,479
Speaker 3: He encountered for the first time Polynesian massage and these

973
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:34,239
Speaker 3: this army of women descended on him and cured him

974
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 3: of his sciatica, and he describes it beautifully. It's believed

975
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 3: to be the first description of of of massage. And

976
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 3: you know, from his voyage, you get all these other things,

977
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 3: like you get the first description of you know, the

978
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 3: word taboo and what it means and tattooing, the first

979
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 3: descriptions of surfing when they come to Hawaii. You know,

980
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:54,799
Speaker 3: all of this stuff emanates from his voice.

981
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:57,400
Speaker 1: How does he describe surfing when they come Well, you know, I.

982
00:56:57,400 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 3: Don't know that he describes surfing very well. But when

983
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 3: or one of his officers, a doctor, the surgeon, just

984
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:06,400
Speaker 3: he tries. It's it's almost laughable because he tries to

985
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:09,840
Speaker 3: break it down, like the body mechanics of it, like

986
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 3: you know, then they get up on the board, you know,

987
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:15,399
Speaker 3: they get on the declivity of the wave and then

988
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:17,479
Speaker 3: then they you know, do and and by the way,

989
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 3: the British are watching this can't believe it because they

990
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 3: don't Most of them don't know how to swim, let

991
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 3: alone surf. Uh. This is one of the weirdest thing

992
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 3: is that naval officers didn't buy and large know how

993
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 3: to swim. They weren't taught to swim, They weren't required

994
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:39,480
Speaker 3: to learn to swim. How is that possible? But including

995
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 3: Cook himself, he could not swim, which ends up being

996
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 3: a problem for him later on.

997
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 1: Isn't that wild man? Yeah, it just seems like could

998
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:49,080
Speaker 1: be like such.

999
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 3: An art of it. Well, what I read was that

1000
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:54,400
Speaker 3: they believe that, you know you're gonna die anyway, why

1001
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 3: plan prolong the agony? Uh, just sink, just die.

1002
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 1: I get it over with, Like if you go on

1003
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 1: the water, that's it.

1004
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's bizarre. It's a very very strange mentality.

1005
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:09,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, you think that attitude of a change when they're

1006
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 5: sailing around seeing other people swimming, Oh yeah.

1007
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 3: And they remark on how beautiful these swimmers are, and

1008
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 3: women with you know, babies at their breast and they're

1009
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 3: still swimming out in these giant waves and just beautiful,

1010
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:25,440
Speaker 3: strong swimmers, and you know they're amazed by it. But

1011
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 3: they're like describing waves that they would themselves and would

1012
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 3: never think of going into.

1013
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, when he when he's up in northern Alaska and

1014
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:39,360
Speaker 1: hits ice, is it is it at that point like, Okay,

1015
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 1: the trip's over, let's start picking our way home. Or

1016
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 1: does he have a second thing on his to do list?

1017
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 3: Yes? Well his and this has something about Captain Cook's

1018
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 3: sort of determination and stubbornness. He decided, well, I've got

1019
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:56,280
Speaker 3: to go back and make one more attempt at finding

1020
00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 3: the Northwest passage. But we're getting along in the summer season.

1021
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 3: I got to warm up for the winter. Why don't

1022
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 3: we come back for one more season and try it

1023
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 3: a little earlier in the season, try it at a

1024
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 3: slightly different angle or a different place. Maybe this ice

1025
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 3: that I've just encountered is an aberration of one season

1026
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 3: or something. So he he's just going back to Hawaii

1027
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 3: to warm up, to replenish his stores, to let his

1028
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:24,560
Speaker 3: men have some R and R and turn around and

1029
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 3: go right back to Alaska and not Oregon. Not in

1030
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 3: not Oregon for some well, you know what it is.

1031
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:33,040
Speaker 3: I think he he had a brief stop in Hawaii.

1032
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 3: He made Landfall and Kawaii, and he knew, he understood,

1033
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 3: these islands are very special. This is a major fine.

1034
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 3: He called them the Sandwich Islands, naming naming them after

1035
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:47,920
Speaker 3: his boss, of course, Lord Sandwich.

1036
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 1: I didn't know where they were, but I've heard the

1037
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 1: Sandwich Islands.

1038
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, I guess he was sort of

1039
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 3: brown nosing. He was just trying to, you know, gain

1040
00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:58,960
Speaker 3: favor of his boss, Lord Sandwich.

1041
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 1: And when they were, when they were along Alaska, are

1042
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 1: they running into Ruskies along there?

1043
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:06,880
Speaker 3: They do run into a number of Russian Russian for uh,

1044
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 3: you know, interest.

1045
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:09,200
Speaker 1: No hostilities.

1046
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 3: No, they got along. They got along actually very well.

1047
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 3: In fact, at that point England had a pretty good

1048
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 3: relationship with Russian.

1049
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 5: When when he goes on these three or four year expeditions,

1050
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:23,880
Speaker 5: they just assume they're not going to hear from him

1051
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:27,480
Speaker 5: until he gets back, or is there some like does

1052
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 5: he ever send like is there a way for him

1053
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 5: to send messages home?

1054
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 3: Or well, you know the beam me up Scotty. You know,

1055
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 3: they had that right Captain.

1056
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 5: Kirk uh No, but there's not like outposts that he's like.

1057
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 3: There are a few one of them. One of them

1058
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 3: is Batavia, which is Jakarta, which was a Dutch colony,

1059
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:51,880
Speaker 3: and they were able to get messages to Europe that way.

1060
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 2: Uh.

1061
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:56,520
Speaker 3: Cape Town, South Africa was certainly one. When they encountered

1062
01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 3: Russians in Alaska.

1063
01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:00,360
Speaker 1: Still those messages still need to be manually trans border

1064
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 1: just catching other boats.

1065
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, taking months and months and months. But they did

1066
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:09,440
Speaker 3: encounter Russians in Alaska who promised to send some documents

1067
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:14,880
Speaker 3: to Saint Petersburg and then ultimately London and uh, they go,

1068
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:18,439
Speaker 3: these documents would go all the way across Siberia all

1069
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:20,720
Speaker 3: I mean, you know what is that eight nine time

1070
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:24,520
Speaker 3: zones to Europe and then finally London. Uh, and so

1071
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 3: some some messages got got to London that way, but

1072
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 3: it took forever. I mean, yeah, you have to understand there.

1073
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:35,000
Speaker 3: Just once they leave Plymouth there they're gone for four years.

1074
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:36,560
Speaker 3: And in every sense of the word.

1075
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:41,160
Speaker 1: So he heads to Hawaii and he's thinking he's gonna check

1076
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:42,760
Speaker 1: that place out more kick it.

1077
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, uh, resupply, uh, resupply. And and also, uh, you know,

1078
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 3: there's always stuff going wrong with the ship. You know,

1079
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 3: there's things breaking all the time. It's just clattering lumber

1080
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:58,800
Speaker 3: up there, you know. And there there's great there's great forests,

1081
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:01,760
Speaker 3: and and uh in a why and so there's that.

1082
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 3: His big worry was, getting back to the sex thing,

1083
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:10,520
Speaker 3: was that his men would spread venereal disease. And he

1084
01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 3: writes endlessly about it. He knew that his men were

1085
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 3: spreading venereal disease to these innocent people who didn't have

1086
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:19,919
Speaker 3: gone rhea or syphilis.

1087
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 1: And but some of those diseases were some of those

1088
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 1: diseases were in the New World, though, some of those

1089
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 1: diseases were in North America.

1090
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:29,560
Speaker 3: They were in North America by then, but not on

1091
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:32,000
Speaker 3: the islands. Oh, there was a disease called yaws, which

1092
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:37,320
Speaker 3: was a venereal disease, much more benign than syphilis. But no,

1093
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 3: there's no question that his men and also the French

1094
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:44,880
Speaker 3: explorers and the Spanish explorers brought disease to Polynesia. But

1095
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:50,080
Speaker 3: it was a real concern of Cooks. He mentions it

1096
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:52,120
Speaker 3: just multiple times in his journal, like.

1097
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:54,840
Speaker 1: And he had he seen this happen before.

1098
01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 3: He's seen it happen before. He had his surgeon literally

1099
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:00,480
Speaker 3: like you strip all the men and any who had

1100
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:03,640
Speaker 3: any signs of venaria disease. Uh, we're not allowed to

1101
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:04,160
Speaker 3: go ashore.

1102
01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 5: Was his concern out of like just genuine concern for

1103
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:13,440
Speaker 5: the locals, or was it for the repercussions that would

1104
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 5: occur after it happened.

1105
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:18,200
Speaker 3: Then it would spread back around to his own men,

1106
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:18,680
Speaker 3: You mean.

1107
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 5: Well know that they might be like, yeah, like, hey,

1108
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:24,320
Speaker 5: you brought this disease, We're coming after you.

1109
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 1: Now.

1110
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:27,840
Speaker 3: Oh, perhaps that was a fear, but I mean I

1111
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:32,000
Speaker 3: think it was a genuine, you know, uh humane thing.

1112
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:34,360
Speaker 3: You know, he just like this is a this is

1113
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:38,800
Speaker 3: an island. He would determine that was innocent of this disease. Uh.

1114
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:43,480
Speaker 3: And he he was he abstained from sex the whole

1115
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:46,080
Speaker 3: the whole time, and he was married and you know,

1116
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:46,960
Speaker 3: had a family, and.

1117
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:48,760
Speaker 1: Uh, you buy that.

1118
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 3: I buy it. I do buy it. Because every officer,

1119
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:57,080
Speaker 3: just even ones who hated him, said, yeah, he he wouldn't.

1120
01:03:57,080 --> 01:04:01,120
Speaker 3: And then and I and Hawaiian women would come after him,

1121
01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 3: and you know, the chiefs would bring some of their

1122
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:07,720
Speaker 3: you know, ladies to the ship, and the ladies would

1123
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:11,080
Speaker 3: get really pissed off at him when he would refuse

1124
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:14,840
Speaker 3: refuse them, like, what's wrong with you? Are you a man?

1125
01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:16,920
Speaker 3: You know? What is this? What is the story? And

1126
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 3: he uh, you know, he was a pretty stodgy Quaker trained,

1127
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:30,960
Speaker 3: dour Yorkshireman. And I you know, it's possible somewhere along

1128
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:33,000
Speaker 3: the way something happened, including that time when all those

1129
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:36,080
Speaker 3: massuses descended on him. Sure, I think it was twelve

1130
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:43,000
Speaker 3: or fourteen women jumped just jumped on him. And but

1131
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:45,040
Speaker 3: but I don't think anything more than that happened. There

1132
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:46,439
Speaker 3: was no happy ending. I don't think there.

1133
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:49,280
Speaker 1: But so but he's worried about his men. But he

1134
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:52,400
Speaker 1: but does he does he not have the authority or

1135
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:56,640
Speaker 1: is it just unrealistic for him to say no consorting.

1136
01:04:57,040 --> 01:05:01,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, here's the thing. The these women are literally

1137
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 3: crawling from their canoes into the ship at all times.

1138
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:07,800
Speaker 3: And one of the things that they're doing in some

1139
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 3: of the places is they're doing it for for for

1140
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:19,280
Speaker 3: metal that they're absolutely obsessed with iron, and they the

1141
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:20,960
Speaker 3: men have found out that for the price of it,

1142
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:27,680
Speaker 3: they could have and get, you know, meet one of

1143
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:31,720
Speaker 3: these women for the price of one nail. And what

1144
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:34,600
Speaker 3: starts to happen is the ship, the whole of the

1145
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:38,880
Speaker 3: ship is is pounded with there's cop copper sheathing, and

1146
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 3: then there's they're pounded with nails. And the women were

1147
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:47,960
Speaker 3: going underneath the ship because they're great swimmers and prying loose. Uh,

1148
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:51,080
Speaker 3: the ship was coming apart. Basically, these nails were being

1149
01:05:51,160 --> 01:05:52,800
Speaker 3: ripped out of the whole of the ship by the

1150
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,840
Speaker 3: hundreds and hundreds, and they began to worry. Cook began

1151
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:57,720
Speaker 3: to worry that the ship was literally going to disintegrate

1152
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:01,360
Speaker 3: from from this eye that they were just obsessed with.

1153
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:04,520
Speaker 3: And because they had never seen metal before and they

1154
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:08,640
Speaker 3: understood how useful it was and how what a powerful thing.

1155
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:12,680
Speaker 3: It was for scraping, for for puncturing, for make hooks

1156
01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:16,640
Speaker 3: out of make all kinds of implements out of That's

1157
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:18,840
Speaker 3: what they were after more than anything was iron.

1158
01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:22,560
Speaker 1: Got it. So there was a trade, Yeah, there was

1159
01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:23,520
Speaker 1: a trade component.

1160
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:25,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, definitely.

1161
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 1: So when he had when he heads back, he's worried

1162
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:35,440
Speaker 1: about that, and he's desirous of mapping the whole archipelagal

1163
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:38,720
Speaker 1: like he's gonna go around it and lay some claim

1164
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:39,080
Speaker 1: to it.

1165
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:44,000
Speaker 3: Okay. So he was obsessed also with the the question

1166
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:47,080
Speaker 3: of whether the Spanish had been there, because the Spanish

1167
01:06:47,120 --> 01:06:50,160
Speaker 3: for centuries had been doing this thing called the Manila

1168
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:53,600
Speaker 3: Galleon trade thing where they would bring spices from the

1169
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:58,280
Speaker 3: Philippines and they would drop them in a Capulco and

1170
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:01,080
Speaker 3: then in a Capulco they would they would get silver

1171
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:03,920
Speaker 3: and all kinds of other things that had been mined

1172
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 3: in South America in Mexico and take them back to

1173
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:10,680
Speaker 3: the Philippines. So back and forth, back and forth over

1174
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:14,600
Speaker 3: the Pacific for centuries the Spanish, and they'd go right

1175
01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 3: by Hawaii, very close these sort of sea lanes that

1176
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 3: they were using. But so the big question he thought

1177
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:25,520
Speaker 3: was had the Spanish landed somewhere in the Hawaiian Islands.

1178
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:28,240
Speaker 3: And if so, had you know, why hadn't we heard

1179
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:30,720
Speaker 3: about it? And do they have do they have their

1180
01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:35,280
Speaker 3: own maps of the Hawaiian Islands? And to his satisfaction,

1181
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:38,640
Speaker 3: he determined that they hadn't for some reason, almost miraculous,

1182
01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:42,200
Speaker 3: they had missed Hawaii after all those centuries. And he

1183
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:45,440
Speaker 3: was the first European almost certainly, to certainly to land

1184
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:49,640
Speaker 3: and describe these people. And he was amazed by them

1185
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:55,120
Speaker 3: for many many reasons, but more especially that they were Polynesian.

1186
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:57,920
Speaker 3: They were the same people he had encountered in New Zealand,

1187
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:00,640
Speaker 3: the same people that he encountered in it in French

1188
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:05,600
Speaker 3: Polynesia and Easter Island. Uh, we're talking about massive distances.

1189
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:07,720
Speaker 3: And he began he was really beginning to piece together

1190
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:12,320
Speaker 3: the idea that these people, you know, this Polynesian dias diaspora,

1191
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:15,560
Speaker 3: they the only way it could have happened is that

1192
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:19,320
Speaker 3: they were extraordinary voyagers, you know, they these weren't just

1193
01:08:19,400 --> 01:08:22,600
Speaker 3: accidental driftings, These were migrations.

1194
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:31,920
Speaker 1: Would geneticists now look at the Polynesian diaspora, do they

1195
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:35,120
Speaker 1: have any sense of when and where they became seafaring

1196
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 1: people like coming out of where.

1197
01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:41,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, the best scholarship I've seen on it is, you know,

1198
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:47,679
Speaker 3: the main idea now is that they originated in Taiwan, Okay,

1199
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:50,240
Speaker 3: which is I mean, you know how far that is.

1200
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:58,760
Speaker 3: So Taiwan starting to sail eastward from Taiwan through Micronesia

1201
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:03,240
Speaker 3: and Melanesia and uh and finally landing probably in Tonga

1202
01:09:03,360 --> 01:09:06,920
Speaker 3: is one of the certain early places that they landed

1203
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:10,200
Speaker 3: and kind of created an empire, and then Uh and

1204
01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:15,200
Speaker 3: then Tahiti, uh and then finally Hawaii. And the very

1205
01:09:15,280 --> 01:09:17,719
Speaker 3: last arrivals to any of these islands was New Zealand.

1206
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:21,440
Speaker 3: You know, that was the farthest away.

1207
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:23,080
Speaker 1: They found New Zealand. The Polynesians found New Zealand after

1208
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:23,919
Speaker 1: they found Hawaii.

1209
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 3: Probably, yes, I'm not absolutely sure on that, but I

1210
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:31,840
Speaker 3: think yes, I think that the theory is that the

1211
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:35,800
Speaker 3: Maori what we call the Maori today are were the

1212
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:38,439
Speaker 3: last it was the last of the great lands of

1213
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:39,439
Speaker 3: Polynesia settled.

1214
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:46,519
Speaker 1: Got it uh if the Spanish had found it. Let's

1215
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:48,200
Speaker 1: say the spanis let's say he found that the Spanish

1216
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:50,200
Speaker 1: had found it. Was there the idea that they would

1217
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:52,880
Speaker 1: counter that that he would like counter that claim or

1218
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:55,000
Speaker 1: was it just a or was it just a curiosity.

1219
01:09:56,080 --> 01:09:58,760
Speaker 3: He wouldn't have personally countered it. I mean, they were

1220
01:09:58,840 --> 01:10:01,560
Speaker 3: they had some weapons on board, but they wouldn't have

1221
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:04,000
Speaker 3: been able to do any kind of a actual fighting.

1222
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:04,240
Speaker 3: You know.

1223
01:10:04,280 --> 01:10:06,240
Speaker 1: He he wouldn't have tried to expel him or.

1224
01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:08,080
Speaker 3: Something like that, but he understood that he had to

1225
01:10:08,120 --> 01:10:11,920
Speaker 3: report back to the admiralty and you know that they

1226
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:14,080
Speaker 3: would want to know all about whether the Spanish had

1227
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:17,519
Speaker 3: been there or not. You know, he's constantly looking over

1228
01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:20,640
Speaker 3: his shoulder wondering. Also, this is another thing, is like,

1229
01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:23,600
Speaker 3: who knows maybe back in Europe we're at war with

1230
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:26,400
Speaker 3: Spain again, or we're at war with France. And he

1231
01:10:26,439 --> 01:10:29,800
Speaker 3: had to wonder and worry that perhaps he was going

1232
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:31,280
Speaker 3: to have to get on a war footing. All of

1233
01:10:31,320 --> 01:10:34,519
Speaker 3: a sudden, here comes a ship, the French ship. Are

1234
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:38,360
Speaker 3: we at war again? It's a crazy thing. You know,

1235
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:41,080
Speaker 3: he's trying to explore and he's also got one foot

1236
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:44,479
Speaker 3: in the kind of the military mindset at the same time.

1237
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 1: How quickly does how quickly do things go south between

1238
01:10:49,479 --> 01:10:51,040
Speaker 1: him and the Hawaiians.

1239
01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:59,000
Speaker 3: Well, so his first stop was Kawhi and he things

1240
01:10:59,080 --> 01:11:03,559
Speaker 3: went pretty poorly from the very beginning. He sent a

1241
01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:06,240
Speaker 3: young officer to look for water and look for a

1242
01:11:06,280 --> 01:11:11,880
Speaker 3: good landing place. And uh, the the Koinans are going crazy.

1243
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:14,360
Speaker 3: They don't know who these people are, what these ships are.

1244
01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:20,080
Speaker 3: They they may think that they were gods. They certainly

1245
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:26,000
Speaker 3: were curious about the metal because they had seen in

1246
01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 3: driftwood little flecks and specs of metal, but they'd never

1247
01:11:30,280 --> 01:11:31,680
Speaker 3: seen so much metal.

1248
01:11:31,400 --> 01:11:34,720
Speaker 1: From disintegrated whalers or whatever. Yeah, now had they? So

1249
01:11:37,320 --> 01:11:41,280
Speaker 1: did they know about Europeans and ships, but just hadn't

1250
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:43,480
Speaker 1: seen him yet or they not even.

1251
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:47,720
Speaker 3: Almost certainly they had never seen Europeans, but that the ships.

1252
01:11:47,479 --> 01:11:48,960
Speaker 1: Had they heard tell you know what I mean?

1253
01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:53,120
Speaker 3: Uh, not that I've been able the scholars have been

1254
01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:54,320
Speaker 3: able to prove.

1255
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:57,360
Speaker 1: There seemed like a full like a full on just shock.

1256
01:11:57,600 --> 01:12:01,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a there are rumors of possible Dutch shipwreck

1257
01:12:01,120 --> 01:12:04,920
Speaker 3: and another Spanish shipwreck that may have happened centuries earlier.

1258
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:09,400
Speaker 3: But they were shocked and amazed, and there was kind

1259
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:13,760
Speaker 3: of this weird feeling of celebration and rapture, like their

1260
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:17,559
Speaker 3: world was about to change. And so they come. So

1261
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:22,879
Speaker 3: this officer goes into fine water and Immediately, the Hawaiians

1262
01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:27,040
Speaker 3: gather around his rowboat. And this dude is trigger happy,

1263
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:30,320
Speaker 3: this officer, and he shoots a Hawaiian and kills him instantly,

1264
01:12:31,200 --> 01:12:32,880
Speaker 3: shoots him right in the sternum, you know, right.

1265
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:35,599
Speaker 1: He feels threatened for some reason, he feels threatened.

1266
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:37,479
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, he thought they were trying to

1267
01:12:37,479 --> 01:12:39,439
Speaker 3: steal the boat, the boat or something, but in fact

1268
01:12:39,479 --> 01:12:41,719
Speaker 3: they were trying to pull it in because the surf

1269
01:12:41,800 --> 01:12:46,479
Speaker 3: was so large and so heavy. So within minutes of

1270
01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:51,000
Speaker 3: arrival they've killed Hawaiian. And of course this freaks the

1271
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:53,519
Speaker 3: Hawaiians out. The Kawaiians, I should say, this is the

1272
01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:57,519
Speaker 3: island of Kawaii, and they don't know what this implement

1273
01:12:57,560 --> 01:13:01,240
Speaker 3: is that just killed one of their countrymen, and they're

1274
01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:04,599
Speaker 3: amazed by it and and and shocked, and they all

1275
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:08,719
Speaker 3: just run run back to shore and uh. But after

1276
01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:13,640
Speaker 3: that cook does come ashore and things go very peacefully

1277
01:13:13,680 --> 01:13:17,559
Speaker 3: and very well, and the same on the yeah, on

1278
01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:20,439
Speaker 3: the same day, uh, and then and the next day uh.

1279
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:23,160
Speaker 3: And but then a bunch of uh and a bunch

1280
01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:26,080
Speaker 3: of men ultimately do make it a shore and that yes,

1281
01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:30,200
Speaker 3: there's sexual encounters and probably the spread of UH of

1282
01:13:30,240 --> 01:13:35,960
Speaker 3: a venereal disease. He goes to a hayo a temple

1283
01:13:36,520 --> 01:13:42,280
Speaker 3: uh and and describes their ceremonies. He goes to their

1284
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:46,200
Speaker 3: you know, their plantations where they're growing bread fruit, and

1285
01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:51,720
Speaker 3: you know, all kinds of u you know, elaborate architecture

1286
01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:56,120
Speaker 3: to kind of hold in the water. You know, he's

1287
01:13:56,120 --> 01:13:59,040
Speaker 3: describing all this stuff. He knows that, uh, this is

1288
01:13:59,080 --> 01:14:01,479
Speaker 3: an amazing place. And he's hearing from and by the way,

1289
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:04,800
Speaker 3: he can understand them because he's been some of his

1290
01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:08,000
Speaker 3: men were had become fluent in Polynesian language by then,

1291
01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:11,040
Speaker 3: and this is the same language essentially with some variations

1292
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:14,040
Speaker 3: that they were speaking in Tihiti. So he's he's hearing

1293
01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:17,439
Speaker 3: from these local people in Kawhi that hey, we're just

1294
01:14:17,479 --> 01:14:20,320
Speaker 3: one island. There's there's a bunch more over over this way,

1295
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:27,679
Speaker 3: you know, Awahu and Maui and Hawaii and Lanai and so,

1296
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:29,960
Speaker 3: so he's realizing this is a big discovery, this is

1297
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:32,559
Speaker 3: a big find, and there's a there's a lot here

1298
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:35,120
Speaker 3: and so but he's still got his mind on I

1299
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:37,920
Speaker 3: got to get to Alaska, you know, you know, there's

1300
01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:39,360
Speaker 3: a I got it, and I have to do it.

1301
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:42,120
Speaker 3: In the summertime. So he's got a timeline that he's

1302
01:14:42,160 --> 01:14:45,040
Speaker 3: trying to, a deadline that he's trying to follow.

1303
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:46,960
Speaker 1: Where does he go from there?

1304
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:52,200
Speaker 3: From Kawai, he goes he goes right across the Atlantic Ocean,

1305
01:14:52,439 --> 01:14:56,599
Speaker 3: I'm excuse me, the Pacific Ocean to to Oregon, you know,

1306
01:14:56,680 --> 01:15:00,679
Speaker 3: and make it starts working his way up the coast again. No, no, no, no,

1307
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:04,360
Speaker 3: this is the first time, right, yeah, yeah, it's it's

1308
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:08,200
Speaker 3: very confusing because he you know, he stumbles upon Kawhi

1309
01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:10,479
Speaker 3: on his way. He didn't you know, he didn't think.

1310
01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:14,920
Speaker 3: He thought he'd just be sailing across the giant bulge

1311
01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:17,439
Speaker 3: of the Pacific Ocean forever until he made landfall in

1312
01:15:17,479 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 3: North America.

1313
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:20,360
Speaker 1: Okay, so this stop and Kawahi when they kill the

1314
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:25,240
Speaker 1: guy is on his way to the to the the

1315
01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:27,639
Speaker 1: North America coast to the US Alaska coast.

1316
01:15:27,720 --> 01:15:28,120
Speaker 3: Correct.

1317
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:31,800
Speaker 1: Then he does his adventures up there, runs out of time, right,

1318
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:33,519
Speaker 1: and he's and then he had but then he decides

1319
01:15:33,560 --> 01:15:34,920
Speaker 1: to double back and he goes back to.

1320
01:15:35,280 --> 01:15:38,360
Speaker 3: Yes Hawaii and he and he makes land. The first

1321
01:15:38,360 --> 01:15:42,040
Speaker 3: island he sees on his way back is Maui, and

1322
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:47,720
Speaker 3: he thinks he's gonna go there and you know, replenish

1323
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:53,080
Speaker 3: his ship. But then another island, a bigger island, the

1324
01:15:53,160 --> 01:15:57,839
Speaker 3: big island of Hawaii kind of uh shifts into his

1325
01:15:57,840 --> 01:15:59,920
Speaker 3: his view and he's like, wait a minute, I'm going

1326
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:03,040
Speaker 3: over there. That's that's even bigger. And there's snow. You know,

1327
01:16:03,120 --> 01:16:05,439
Speaker 3: there's snow on top of this mountain. It's one of

1328
01:16:05,439 --> 01:16:08,439
Speaker 3: you know, it's by some definitions, it's the tallest mountain

1329
01:16:08,439 --> 01:16:11,080
Speaker 3: in the world because it's you know, if you start

1330
01:16:11,120 --> 01:16:15,519
Speaker 3: from from the stars in for the trenchat and so

1331
01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:17,679
Speaker 3: he's amazed by this place and he's like, that's where

1332
01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:20,000
Speaker 3: I got to go, and and that ends up being, uh,

1333
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:21,439
Speaker 3: the place of his death.

1334
01:16:31,400 --> 01:16:33,599
Speaker 1: At what point do they just flat out run out

1335
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:34,760
Speaker 1: of food they brought from home.

1336
01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:40,599
Speaker 3: That's a good question. I don't know. They're constantly filling

1337
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:43,240
Speaker 3: the cast you know by you know, like Cape Town.

1338
01:16:43,280 --> 01:16:45,280
Speaker 3: By the time by the time they get to Cape Town,

1339
01:16:45,280 --> 01:16:47,600
Speaker 3: they're running out of food. And but that's one of

1340
01:16:48,280 --> 01:16:50,519
Speaker 3: one of the things about Cape Town is that it

1341
01:16:50,600 --> 01:16:54,439
Speaker 3: was a Dutch uh replenishing station that you know, you

1342
01:16:54,479 --> 01:16:57,160
Speaker 3: could get everything you needed there, whether it was salt

1343
01:16:57,160 --> 01:17:02,479
Speaker 3: pork or you know, hard tack, biscuits, or you know,

1344
01:17:02,640 --> 01:17:04,840
Speaker 3: they had pretty much everything. The Dutch were really good

1345
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:10,120
Speaker 3: at not only replenishing Dutch vessels, but selling to the

1346
01:17:10,120 --> 01:17:12,360
Speaker 3: ships from other countries, European countries.

1347
01:17:12,439 --> 01:17:15,800
Speaker 1: But then they're always scrounging, right, always scrounging they go,

1348
01:17:16,400 --> 01:17:18,719
Speaker 1: they're always scrounging and eating a lot of weird food.

1349
01:17:19,840 --> 01:17:24,759
Speaker 3: And cook again is demanding that his men eat fresh

1350
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:27,960
Speaker 3: food and fresh vegetables and anything that they can find,

1351
01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:32,519
Speaker 3: and uh, you know, so that's yeah, that's a big

1352
01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:34,280
Speaker 3: part of it. Plus, you know, a lot of them

1353
01:17:34,280 --> 01:17:36,800
Speaker 3: are you know, they're out there. Why not to put

1354
01:17:36,800 --> 01:17:38,880
Speaker 3: a lot why not put a line in the water.

1355
01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:42,240
Speaker 3: You know, they are constantly fishing, They're constantly when they

1356
01:17:42,240 --> 01:17:48,280
Speaker 3: come ashore, they're constantly hunting. So uh yeah, they e mentioned.

1357
01:17:48,080 --> 01:17:50,200
Speaker 4: Like, oh sorry ahead, lets me say what are the favorites.

1358
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:53,200
Speaker 4: So I think that's like with the Lewis and Clark expedition,

1359
01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:56,559
Speaker 4: there's always like we're any of these sort of stories,

1360
01:17:56,560 --> 01:17:57,920
Speaker 4: it's like this is what they prefer.

1361
01:17:58,439 --> 01:17:59,240
Speaker 1: Dog dog.

1362
01:18:00,040 --> 01:18:02,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I I put together this thing. I

1363
01:18:02,280 --> 01:18:03,600
Speaker 3: don't know if we want to go into this, but

1364
01:18:04,200 --> 01:18:08,880
Speaker 3: a little bit. I've been thinking about having a party

1365
01:18:08,920 --> 01:18:11,800
Speaker 3: to celebrate the the arrival of the new book and

1366
01:18:12,080 --> 01:18:14,519
Speaker 3: having some really weird food, and then going through the

1367
01:18:14,520 --> 01:18:17,840
Speaker 3: book and realizing some of the extremely weird food that

1368
01:18:17,880 --> 01:18:19,960
Speaker 3: they ate. And I've put together a kind of a

1369
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:25,320
Speaker 3: little menu for sure. Uh so, yeah, everything on here

1370
01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:29,000
Speaker 3: is in the book, but I've arranged it as as

1371
01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:32,479
Speaker 3: though it were some kind of gourmet banquet. But you know,

1372
01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:35,559
Speaker 3: we start with a paratiffe and appetizers of like any

1373
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:39,719
Speaker 3: good banquet, grog, spruce beer, pete of sea hair which

1374
01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:43,400
Speaker 3: which is a slug that they encountered in Tasmania. And

1375
01:18:43,439 --> 01:18:47,479
Speaker 3: Puffin's squab, Young Young Puffin. That's a there's such cute

1376
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:50,200
Speaker 3: little birds and apparently they ate a lot of puffin.

1377
01:18:50,360 --> 01:18:50,639
Speaker 1: Really.

1378
01:18:51,800 --> 01:18:55,680
Speaker 3: Then uh you know, amuse boush. You've got to have

1379
01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:59,200
Speaker 3: something just to get really get going. And that was

1380
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:03,759
Speaker 3: a tartar art of cury liver, the liver of the curry,

1381
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:07,200
Speaker 3: which was the ancient dog of New Zealand. It's now extinct.

1382
01:19:07,479 --> 01:19:10,800
Speaker 3: It was often eaten by the Maori. Yeah, it's a

1383
01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:11,599
Speaker 3: weird looking dog.

1384
01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:15,639
Speaker 1: So we've seen out a dog that had arrived with

1385
01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:18,000
Speaker 1: with the with the Polynesians, and then when it became

1386
01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:20,120
Speaker 1: like a sort of went faral and then now it's.

1387
01:19:19,960 --> 01:19:22,080
Speaker 3: Gone, and now it's gone, although you can see it

1388
01:19:22,120 --> 01:19:25,800
Speaker 3: in some museums stuffed, you know, kind of like some

1389
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:27,519
Speaker 3: of the things in this room. I mean, it's kind

1390
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:28,920
Speaker 3: of strange looking, but.

1391
01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:31,720
Speaker 2: What I'm pulling up looks like a page out of

1392
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:35,040
Speaker 2: the Fucked Up Old Taxidermy.

1393
01:19:35,120 --> 01:19:38,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, they went like a dingo almost. Yeah, it's probably

1394
01:19:39,560 --> 01:19:43,400
Speaker 3: related in some way, but anyway, a little kurry because

1395
01:19:43,439 --> 01:19:46,800
Speaker 3: they were eating dog fairly often on this trip. You

1396
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:51,080
Speaker 3: mentioned Lewis and Clark. They didn't want to. It wasn't

1397
01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:54,200
Speaker 3: their first choice, but they did. Then you gotta have

1398
01:19:54,240 --> 01:19:57,600
Speaker 3: some salad. Uh. So the salad, I'm just I'm suggesting

1399
01:19:57,600 --> 01:20:00,679
Speaker 3: in this light relish. You know, they're constantly worried scurvy,

1400
01:20:01,320 --> 01:20:04,679
Speaker 3: uh the scurvy as they called it. And so Cook

1401
01:20:04,720 --> 01:20:07,519
Speaker 3: had all these weird items that he thought could be

1402
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:11,680
Speaker 3: anti scorbutic or you know, anti scurvy. And they consisted

1403
01:20:11,680 --> 01:20:15,920
Speaker 3: of a carrot, marmalade, wart of malt, rob of orange.

1404
01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:19,160
Speaker 3: I don't know what that is, rob of orange, inspissated

1405
01:20:19,240 --> 01:20:21,640
Speaker 3: lemon juice of course on the heel of or not

1406
01:20:21,720 --> 01:20:25,439
Speaker 3: the peel, and maybe it is I don't know, uh,

1407
01:20:25,720 --> 01:20:30,280
Speaker 3: and saloop, which is this root vegetable that they steeped

1408
01:20:30,479 --> 01:20:37,000
Speaker 3: for a long time. First course loggerhead sea turtle brigoo.

1409
01:20:37,720 --> 01:20:41,679
Speaker 3: They ate so much turtle and of course it's very tasty.

1410
01:20:42,200 --> 01:20:44,360
Speaker 3: That that's not no one is that you can press.

1411
01:20:44,360 --> 01:20:47,000
Speaker 1: Stock up so quick when you're pulling into these places

1412
01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:49,040
Speaker 1: that aren't Yeah, when you're pulling in these places that

1413
01:20:49,040 --> 01:20:50,640
Speaker 1: aren't getting harvested.

1414
01:20:50,360 --> 01:20:53,320
Speaker 3: Right, Sea turtle, sea turtle is is? Is that? That was?

1415
01:20:53,960 --> 01:20:56,400
Speaker 3: That was that was good eating and uh.

1416
01:20:56,120 --> 01:20:58,240
Speaker 5: You could probably train it, keep them alive for a

1417
01:20:58,240 --> 01:20:59,880
Speaker 5: while and transport.

1418
01:20:59,400 --> 01:21:00,920
Speaker 1: Well you read it. When they would go to the

1419
01:21:00,960 --> 01:21:06,200
Speaker 1: Glopagos and get the land ones flipping them over, yeah

1420
01:21:06,200 --> 01:21:08,280
Speaker 1: in the hole. They'd stay alive for months.

1421
01:21:08,400 --> 01:21:10,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, they come with their own packaging basically, and

1422
01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:15,400
Speaker 3: you know, as long as they're alive, they're still fresh.

1423
01:21:15,439 --> 01:21:18,120
Speaker 3: So yeah, that was whenever they ran into turtle, they

1424
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:23,280
Speaker 3: were they were in seventh Heaven. Australian ghost shark fins

1425
01:21:23,960 --> 01:21:26,400
Speaker 3: are a delicacy and they would like to fry those

1426
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:30,120
Speaker 3: in seal grease. Seal grease. They would render the blubber

1427
01:21:30,160 --> 01:21:34,240
Speaker 3: of seals that they went down to this island called Kerguelan,

1428
01:21:34,280 --> 01:21:40,599
Speaker 3: which is way down there, almost to Antarctica, and they

1429
01:21:40,640 --> 01:21:43,360
Speaker 3: would render this seal blubber, which they described as no

1430
01:21:43,400 --> 01:21:46,080
Speaker 3: better in England was ever thought half so good. Really,

1431
01:21:46,640 --> 01:21:47,840
Speaker 3: it sounds disgusting.

1432
01:21:47,640 --> 01:21:50,920
Speaker 1: Making their own oil.

1433
01:21:49,880 --> 01:21:51,920
Speaker 3: They were which were they cooked with? They use it

1434
01:21:51,920 --> 01:21:55,480
Speaker 3: in their lamps. You know, they had to be pretty resourceful.

1435
01:21:55,520 --> 01:21:57,519
Speaker 3: They're you know, as you said, running out of food

1436
01:21:57,560 --> 01:22:00,320
Speaker 3: pretty early on, so they have to fill their or

1437
01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:00,559
Speaker 3: some of.

1438
01:22:01,560 --> 01:22:03,759
Speaker 1: It's the bear grease, the butter.

1439
01:22:04,640 --> 01:22:05,680
Speaker 3: That's a good way of putting in.

1440
01:22:05,720 --> 01:22:08,839
Speaker 2: The ghost shark looks like an insane.

1441
01:22:09,120 --> 01:22:11,400
Speaker 1: They called goblin shark too different.

1442
01:22:11,560 --> 01:22:12,920
Speaker 3: Sometimes they're called elephant fish.

1443
01:22:13,640 --> 01:22:15,040
Speaker 1: Let me see turned.

1444
01:22:14,800 --> 01:22:18,439
Speaker 5: Towards what do we call them up at the shack?

1445
01:22:19,840 --> 01:22:21,000
Speaker 5: The little ones you catch?

1446
01:22:21,439 --> 01:22:22,599
Speaker 1: Oh, spiny dog fish?

1447
01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:27,559
Speaker 3: No, no, no, the what am I thinking of? Rat fish?

1448
01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:29,840
Speaker 3: They look like like a rat fish? Yeah, I got it,

1449
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:35,479
Speaker 3: a rat fish. I don't know. Second course salted Hawaiian boar.

1450
01:22:35,600 --> 01:22:39,240
Speaker 3: Now they ate a lot of pigat at great eating.

1451
01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:43,200
Speaker 3: Obviously no complaints there, but everything on the ship was

1452
01:22:44,400 --> 01:22:49,400
Speaker 3: was covered in cockroach excrement. So it was just that

1453
01:22:49,600 --> 01:22:51,639
Speaker 3: they can never deal. You know, you always hear about

1454
01:22:51,640 --> 01:22:53,160
Speaker 3: the rats the rats were a big problem, but and

1455
01:22:53,320 --> 01:22:56,639
Speaker 3: even bigger problem with the cockroaches. And there's stuff, there's ship.

1456
01:22:56,920 --> 01:22:59,880
Speaker 5: The Polynesians had spread pigs all over the place.

1457
01:23:00,200 --> 01:23:02,200
Speaker 3: They had they brought them with them everywhere they went

1458
01:23:03,320 --> 01:23:05,680
Speaker 3: except New Zealand. Somehow the pig didn't make it to

1459
01:23:05,680 --> 01:23:08,559
Speaker 3: New Zealand until you know, much later.

1460
01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:13,720
Speaker 1: It's there now. Yeah, the uh, the cockroaches. That a

1461
01:23:13,720 --> 01:23:17,160
Speaker 1: little bit surprises me that when you're starting out you

1462
01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:21,280
Speaker 1: can't just when it's empty just clean that some bitch out.

1463
01:23:21,680 --> 01:23:23,800
Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah, I mean he's right.

1464
01:23:24,040 --> 01:23:26,840
Speaker 1: I guess you got all the foods. Yeah, that's right.

1465
01:23:26,880 --> 01:23:28,960
Speaker 1: It's not like you clean your house and cockroa.

1466
01:23:30,960 --> 01:23:35,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's bad. Okay. Then the main course is they

1467
01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:39,360
Speaker 3: a ton of this walrus, but they called it sea

1468
01:23:39,400 --> 01:23:45,360
Speaker 3: beef and they would eat it on kelp, bed of kelp.

1469
01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:50,200
Speaker 3: You know, good eating there. But the problem with the

1470
01:23:50,200 --> 01:23:54,959
Speaker 3: the problem with the walrus was they really actually tasted horrible.

1471
01:23:55,120 --> 01:23:59,800
Speaker 3: And this the chef, the galley chef, described how you

1472
01:23:59,840 --> 01:24:02,000
Speaker 3: have to prepare it just to make it palatable because

1473
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:07,879
Speaker 3: it's so I don't know, greasy, And yeah, you'd waters would.

1474
01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:10,640
Speaker 1: You think, well, I had fermented waters, which I didn't like.

1475
01:24:10,760 --> 01:24:20,000
Speaker 1: Oh on that subject, dude. The whale blobber is legit

1476
01:24:20,280 --> 01:24:24,400
Speaker 1: like that is delicious, man. The boat like pieces of

1477
01:24:24,439 --> 01:24:27,960
Speaker 1: bowhead whale where you have the it's like a French

1478
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:31,559
Speaker 1: fry with a black tip on it. Okay, so it's

1479
01:24:31,720 --> 01:24:35,000
Speaker 1: it's it's a little bit of the skin. Imagine a

1480
01:24:35,040 --> 01:24:37,600
Speaker 1: French fry where most of it's white and on the

1481
01:24:37,760 --> 01:24:40,160
Speaker 1: ends like a black. It's like at the same proportions

1482
01:24:40,200 --> 01:24:43,160
Speaker 1: as the match stick, the size of a French fry,

1483
01:24:43,320 --> 01:24:45,760
Speaker 1: the head of the match being skin and the wood

1484
01:24:45,760 --> 01:24:50,360
Speaker 1: of the match being blobber. Oh my god, it's good man.

1485
01:24:50,560 --> 01:24:53,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that I was just going to read how

1486
01:24:53,280 --> 01:24:54,880
Speaker 3: they prepared it, just real quick.

1487
01:24:56,240 --> 01:24:57,920
Speaker 1: A big Wallers fan. I'm sure i'd like it if

1488
01:24:57,920 --> 01:24:58,599
Speaker 1: I had it cooked.

1489
01:24:58,640 --> 01:25:00,920
Speaker 3: Right. So they're up in a lot and they're seeing

1490
01:25:00,960 --> 01:25:02,960
Speaker 3: a lot of walrus and they shoot the walrus and

1491
01:25:03,000 --> 01:25:05,240
Speaker 3: it's a fair ordeal just getting them into the boat.

1492
01:25:05,240 --> 01:25:07,760
Speaker 3: But we let it hang up for one day that

1493
01:25:07,840 --> 01:25:10,639
Speaker 3: the blood might drain from it. After that we tow

1494
01:25:10,720 --> 01:25:14,599
Speaker 3: it overboard for twelve hours. Then we boil it for

1495
01:25:14,640 --> 01:25:17,360
Speaker 3: four hours, and the next day cut it into chunks

1496
01:25:17,400 --> 01:25:20,960
Speaker 3: and cook it for several days. Even then it is

1497
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:25,240
Speaker 3: too rank and disgustful, both in smell and taste to

1498
01:25:25,280 --> 01:25:27,920
Speaker 3: make use of except with plenty of pepper.

1499
01:25:28,600 --> 01:25:31,000
Speaker 5: It's funny that they towed it because your buddy uh.

1500
01:25:34,280 --> 01:25:36,400
Speaker 1: Lad says it pickles it. They said.

1501
01:25:37,560 --> 01:25:41,240
Speaker 4: Even after that it was bad as if, like, you know,

1502
01:25:41,280 --> 01:25:42,639
Speaker 4: we did everything we could.

1503
01:25:42,680 --> 01:25:43,639
Speaker 1: I don't think they're typically.

1504
01:25:43,840 --> 01:25:46,320
Speaker 4: I think when someone's preparing a food for several days

1505
01:25:46,400 --> 01:25:48,800
Speaker 4: and it's they're dragging it overboard, I'd be.

1506
01:25:48,720 --> 01:25:51,720
Speaker 1: Like, that might be one of your issues. I don't

1507
01:25:51,720 --> 01:25:54,680
Speaker 1: think they were trimming it good. Yeah, I think if

1508
01:25:54,720 --> 01:25:56,800
Speaker 1: you'd got down in there, I think less is more.

1509
01:25:56,920 --> 01:25:59,160
Speaker 1: If you got down in there to the core of

1510
01:25:59,240 --> 01:26:04,120
Speaker 1: the meat. God done, like, trimmed core of the meat,

1511
01:26:04,160 --> 01:26:05,320
Speaker 1: there's no way it's gonna be bad.

1512
01:26:07,320 --> 01:26:07,720
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1513
01:26:08,479 --> 01:26:10,479
Speaker 1: They had a lot of surface fat in there, man,

1514
01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:13,720
Speaker 1: I had. That's what I would do. I'd go back

1515
01:26:13,720 --> 01:26:15,240
Speaker 1: in time to supervise that whale.

1516
01:26:17,760 --> 01:26:21,360
Speaker 3: Well, the captain cook himself was famously able to eat

1517
01:26:21,400 --> 01:26:22,080
Speaker 3: just about anything.

1518
01:26:22,479 --> 01:26:25,320
Speaker 1: He never well, you know what, to back them up.

1519
01:26:25,360 --> 01:26:28,400
Speaker 1: I couldn't get into it. I didn't like it. Cows like, oh,

1520
01:26:28,439 --> 01:26:33,120
Speaker 1: you just gotta try another bite. I'm like, I don't

1521
01:26:33,120 --> 01:26:34,559
Speaker 1: need to know the bike to tell you I don't

1522
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:35,439
Speaker 1: like Walter's meat.

1523
01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:38,479
Speaker 3: But at the end of the meal we got dessert,

1524
01:26:39,160 --> 01:26:42,240
Speaker 3: moldy yams. There were a lot of yams that's sweet

1525
01:26:42,240 --> 01:26:44,120
Speaker 3: and the only kind of sweet thing they had, or

1526
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:49,480
Speaker 3: sweet and savory seagull pie. They ate a lot of seagulls,

1527
01:26:50,760 --> 01:26:55,439
Speaker 3: and you would pair out with digestive of course, algae,

1528
01:26:55,439 --> 01:26:58,800
Speaker 3: slimed cask water spiked with lemon juice and vinegar or

1529
01:26:59,360 --> 01:27:02,200
Speaker 3: this was all for Polynesia. It was the kava. You know,

1530
01:27:02,280 --> 01:27:05,639
Speaker 3: they're drinking this viscous fluid called kava, which is as

1531
01:27:05,920 --> 01:27:08,120
Speaker 3: a drug. But the way they would do it is

1532
01:27:08,240 --> 01:27:12,960
Speaker 3: uh a lowly servant of the local chief would chew

1533
01:27:13,000 --> 01:27:14,519
Speaker 3: it and chew it and chew it and chew it

1534
01:27:14,880 --> 01:27:16,519
Speaker 3: and it spit it into this bowl with all his

1535
01:27:16,600 --> 01:27:20,519
Speaker 3: saliva and then that's what you would drink and uh

1536
01:27:20,840 --> 01:27:23,600
Speaker 3: it you got you kind of buzzed and uh it

1537
01:27:23,640 --> 01:27:25,800
Speaker 3: was a good way to finish finish off a good meal.

1538
01:27:26,000 --> 01:27:29,800
Speaker 3: Did they travel with rum? Yes, well, grog which was

1539
01:27:29,920 --> 01:27:33,240
Speaker 3: like fifty to fifty water and rum. Yeah.

1540
01:27:33,520 --> 01:27:35,519
Speaker 1: How much do you want to get into Cook's death?

1541
01:27:36,120 --> 01:27:38,240
Speaker 1: I know you know, you gotta like there's two kinds

1542
01:27:38,240 --> 01:27:42,639
Speaker 1: of writers. You got the ones who are worried about

1543
01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:44,320
Speaker 1: telling the end of the books. I think people are

1544
01:27:44,320 --> 01:27:46,479
Speaker 1: not going to go get the book right. I think

1545
01:27:46,479 --> 01:27:49,080
Speaker 1: those ones are wrong. Then you got writers who is like,

1546
01:27:49,200 --> 01:27:52,080
Speaker 1: you know, obviously it's it's hundreds of pages long. We're

1547
01:27:52,080 --> 01:27:53,920
Speaker 1: only talking about a little bit. There's tons more to

1548
01:27:53,960 --> 01:27:55,080
Speaker 1: read and learn about.

1549
01:27:55,720 --> 01:27:59,920
Speaker 3: I obviously it's not a spoiler. Uh to to to

1550
01:28:00,120 --> 01:28:04,400
Speaker 3: note that Cook died a horrible and violent death, and

1551
01:28:04,520 --> 01:28:07,680
Speaker 3: we touched on that earlier. I think it's what he's

1552
01:28:07,720 --> 01:28:09,640
Speaker 3: most famous for, honestly.

1553
01:28:09,280 --> 01:28:11,320
Speaker 1: Is that he's famous for dying.

1554
01:28:11,439 --> 01:28:15,439
Speaker 3: He's famous for getting killed on the shores of the

1555
01:28:15,479 --> 01:28:17,720
Speaker 3: Big Island. That you go to the spot where he

1556
01:28:17,800 --> 01:28:20,960
Speaker 3: was killed, you said you've been by it. I hiked

1557
01:28:20,960 --> 01:28:24,439
Speaker 3: down to it. There's a monument there that is that

1558
01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:27,559
Speaker 3: notes the exact spot where he where he met his end.

1559
01:28:27,960 --> 01:28:31,040
Speaker 3: He was hacked to pieces, he was just remembered. His

1560
01:28:31,120 --> 01:28:36,680
Speaker 3: bones were spread all over the island. Uh And the Hawaiians,

1561
01:28:36,760 --> 01:28:39,599
Speaker 3: both the ancient Hawaiians at the time and current Hawaiians.

1562
01:28:39,760 --> 01:28:44,360
Speaker 3: Native Hawaiians insists that he was Obviously they say he

1563
01:28:44,439 --> 01:28:47,320
Speaker 3: was not eaten, and yeah.

1564
01:28:47,160 --> 01:28:51,439
Speaker 1: I got called basic questions. How long had he spent

1565
01:28:52,160 --> 01:28:57,960
Speaker 1: interacting with the group of Hawaiians that killed him? So

1566
01:28:58,000 --> 01:29:02,240
Speaker 1: the people that lived in and around a cove, was

1567
01:29:02,280 --> 01:29:04,439
Speaker 1: it was it day one? Was he hanging out there

1568
01:29:04,479 --> 01:29:05,280
Speaker 1: for months on end?

1569
01:29:05,360 --> 01:29:08,160
Speaker 3: No, they were they First of all, they circumnavigated the

1570
01:29:08,280 --> 01:29:10,680
Speaker 3: entire island of Hawaii and had all sorts of en

1571
01:29:10,760 --> 01:29:13,559
Speaker 3: kind of encounters out out in the water. But they

1572
01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:18,200
Speaker 3: finally made landfall I mean, anchored in Kiala Kukia Bay

1573
01:29:20,600 --> 01:29:28,080
Speaker 3: in January of seventeen seventy nine, and a month later,

1574
01:29:28,600 --> 01:29:32,000
Speaker 3: about a month later actually on Valentine's Day, and so

1575
01:29:34,160 --> 01:29:38,280
Speaker 3: many and there there's loads of debate among scholars about

1576
01:29:38,320 --> 01:29:41,439
Speaker 3: whether the Hawaiians thought he was the god Lano, who

1577
01:29:41,479 --> 01:29:44,519
Speaker 3: was a god of fertility. And it was he arrived

1578
01:29:45,560 --> 01:29:49,519
Speaker 3: during this festival of the Makahiki, which was to honor

1579
01:29:49,560 --> 01:29:52,880
Speaker 3: the god Lano, and here comes this guy and these

1580
01:29:52,920 --> 01:29:56,280
Speaker 3: two ships that had never been seen before, and he

1581
01:29:56,320 --> 01:30:00,919
Speaker 3: was certainly treated like some kind of celebrity, and probably

1582
01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:03,600
Speaker 3: they did at first think that he was kind of

1583
01:30:03,600 --> 01:30:08,640
Speaker 3: the reincarnation of Lano. And these early ceremonies where I

1584
01:30:08,640 --> 01:30:12,400
Speaker 3: mean they're they're worshiping him. They bow down to him.

1585
01:30:12,560 --> 01:30:16,960
Speaker 3: You know, thousands of people out in the out on

1586
01:30:17,000 --> 01:30:19,880
Speaker 3: the lava flats are like bowing down to him. So

1587
01:30:19,880 --> 01:30:21,639
Speaker 3: so that's an interesting part of the story and kind

1588
01:30:21,680 --> 01:30:25,280
Speaker 3: of this this festival is going on. It's the happiest

1589
01:30:25,320 --> 01:30:28,080
Speaker 3: time of their year. It's sort of like Carnival and

1590
01:30:29,080 --> 01:30:32,320
Speaker 3: it's uh, that's when they arrive and they Cook and

1591
01:30:32,360 --> 01:30:35,400
Speaker 3: his men have a wonderful couple of weeks there just

1592
01:30:36,040 --> 01:30:38,799
Speaker 3: some of the very best times of their whole voyage.

1593
01:30:39,800 --> 01:30:43,519
Speaker 3: Tons of food, you know, beautiful women may they make

1594
01:30:43,720 --> 01:30:48,120
Speaker 3: all sorts of friends with with the local men. And

1595
01:30:48,200 --> 01:30:50,639
Speaker 3: they go up. They go hunting, they go fishing, they

1596
01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:54,679
Speaker 3: you know, they're having the time of their lives. But

1597
01:30:54,840 --> 01:30:58,120
Speaker 3: then it's time to leave. Cook decides it's time to go.

1598
01:30:58,160 --> 01:31:00,720
Speaker 3: They're going to go back to Uh, they're going to

1599
01:31:00,760 --> 01:31:01,639
Speaker 3: go back to Alaska.

1600
01:31:01,800 --> 01:31:05,679
Speaker 1: Well, a little bit of this adulation has a fade

1601
01:31:05,680 --> 01:31:07,000
Speaker 1: because you've got to have balls to put.

1602
01:31:06,840 --> 01:31:10,400
Speaker 3: A knife into a god, right, right, yes, I.

1603
01:31:10,320 --> 01:31:13,080
Speaker 1: Mean so, so there after a while putting together that,

1604
01:31:13,680 --> 01:31:16,200
Speaker 1: you know, there's this there's this trilogy. Do you ever

1605
01:31:16,200 --> 01:31:19,679
Speaker 1: see the Highlands trilogy about about Papa New Guinea. No,

1606
01:31:19,840 --> 01:31:24,120
Speaker 1: it's really interesting. But they talk about a moment's it's

1607
01:31:24,120 --> 01:31:26,719
Speaker 1: a narrative about first contact, which in the Highlands was late,

1608
01:31:26,880 --> 01:31:29,759
Speaker 1: like lately, nineteen hundreds, you're still having first contact with groups.

1609
01:31:30,479 --> 01:31:36,160
Speaker 1: And he and eventually these these indigenous people from Papua

1610
01:31:36,200 --> 01:31:38,799
Speaker 1: New Guinea, who they think these white guys are gods

1611
01:31:38,920 --> 01:31:41,960
Speaker 1: that show up, but they would they took a real

1612
01:31:42,000 --> 01:31:46,599
Speaker 1: interest in their excrement and they're like, that ain't a god.

1613
01:31:47,880 --> 01:31:50,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's it, that's us. Yeah, but that's a

1614
01:31:50,840 --> 01:31:57,160
Speaker 3: really good question about the bold the boldness of putting,

1615
01:31:57,320 --> 01:31:59,720
Speaker 3: you know, deciding to kill a god or someone who

1616
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:02,160
Speaker 3: might they may have thought was a god. But what

1617
01:32:02,240 --> 01:32:05,880
Speaker 3: happened was they actually left Hawaii, uh, and for two

1618
01:32:05,920 --> 01:32:08,920
Speaker 3: or three days, we're crawling up the coasts of the

1619
01:32:08,920 --> 01:32:11,599
Speaker 3: Big Island on the way to Alaska when they encountered

1620
01:32:11,640 --> 01:32:17,479
Speaker 3: a storm and the storm snapped the foremast and he

1621
01:32:17,600 --> 01:32:20,640
Speaker 3: has to put in somewhere and repair the ship and

1622
01:32:20,680 --> 01:32:24,559
Speaker 3: find a tree, you know, large enough to repair the mast.

1623
01:32:24,600 --> 01:32:26,920
Speaker 3: He can't go any further, so he turns back around

1624
01:32:27,080 --> 01:32:30,280
Speaker 3: and goes back to that same day. And now there's

1625
01:32:30,320 --> 01:32:33,120
Speaker 3: realizing he's not a god if he was a god

1626
01:32:33,520 --> 01:32:39,519
Speaker 3: if he was exactly his boat is broken, and why

1627
01:32:39,560 --> 01:32:42,320
Speaker 3: wouldn't he just fix it himself if he was a god.

1628
01:32:43,320 --> 01:32:48,519
Speaker 3: So from the minute they arrived returned, everything was different.

1629
01:32:48,560 --> 01:32:52,280
Speaker 3: They were not They were not you know that they

1630
01:32:52,280 --> 01:32:54,920
Speaker 3: were not treated in any anything like the same man.

1631
01:32:55,000 --> 01:32:57,599
Speaker 4: Wasn't there wasn't there one of his men who died

1632
01:32:58,400 --> 01:33:02,679
Speaker 4: when they return and they got an They're like, clearly, yes,

1633
01:33:02,800 --> 01:33:03,479
Speaker 4: this man is.

1634
01:33:04,120 --> 01:33:06,040
Speaker 3: There was a guy named Watman who died of some

1635
01:33:06,160 --> 01:33:09,559
Speaker 3: kind of disease and they buried him there. But and

1636
01:33:09,600 --> 01:33:13,040
Speaker 3: the Wayans treated him with great respect. But you know,

1637
01:33:13,080 --> 01:33:15,519
Speaker 3: in the burial and so forth. But they're like, hmm,

1638
01:33:16,200 --> 01:33:19,200
Speaker 3: these guys suspicious His white dudes, aren't. They don't seem

1639
01:33:19,240 --> 01:33:21,120
Speaker 3: to be gods. They seem to be very much like us.

1640
01:33:21,200 --> 01:33:26,240
Speaker 3: And so clearly it had begun to dawn on on

1641
01:33:26,360 --> 01:33:29,880
Speaker 3: everyone from the lowly servants all the way up to

1642
01:33:29,920 --> 01:33:32,680
Speaker 3: the chiefs and and and the cahunas that these were

1643
01:33:32,680 --> 01:33:37,599
Speaker 3: not gods anymore. And yeah, I don't like to talk about,

1644
01:33:37,720 --> 01:33:40,759
Speaker 3: you know, this precise circumstances that leads to death, because

1645
01:33:41,000 --> 01:33:44,320
Speaker 3: you know, that's that's like it's escalation, the sort of

1646
01:33:44,400 --> 01:33:49,240
Speaker 3: rapid escalation of miscues and cultural misunderstandings, and you know,

1647
01:33:49,320 --> 01:33:53,640
Speaker 3: obviously the language barrier, uh, and things get out of

1648
01:33:53,680 --> 01:33:55,160
Speaker 3: hand real quickly.

1649
01:33:55,640 --> 01:33:56,240
Speaker 1: Remarkable.

1650
01:33:57,000 --> 01:34:01,920
Speaker 5: Is there different versions of what happened in British history

1651
01:34:02,000 --> 01:34:03,000
Speaker 5: and Hawaiian hist.

1652
01:34:02,920 --> 01:34:07,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there are there are, and including I mean

1653
01:34:08,000 --> 01:34:13,599
Speaker 3: one of the stories, one of the Hawaiian versions. Several

1654
01:34:13,600 --> 01:34:19,439
Speaker 3: of the Hawaiian versions have Cook having sexual relations with

1655
01:34:20,080 --> 01:34:25,320
Speaker 3: Hawaiian princesses both on Kawaii and in Hawaii, and that

1656
01:34:25,320 --> 01:34:27,840
Speaker 3: that may have contributed to some of the misunderstandings or

1657
01:34:28,840 --> 01:34:32,559
Speaker 3: you know, but the English say that's absolutely not true,

1658
01:34:33,000 --> 01:34:35,599
Speaker 3: and that that's just a story that comes from American

1659
01:34:35,640 --> 01:34:39,400
Speaker 3: missionaries who hated the British and uh, you know, I

1660
01:34:39,479 --> 01:34:44,200
Speaker 3: wanted to make Cook look like a terrible guy. You know.

1661
01:34:44,479 --> 01:34:47,840
Speaker 1: One question about it is how did they get their

1662
01:34:47,840 --> 01:34:52,400
Speaker 1: hands on the Captain Joey? Why is there not like

1663
01:34:52,439 --> 01:34:55,960
Speaker 1: a like a lot of layers of security.

1664
01:34:56,120 --> 01:35:00,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, there were marines, uh that came ashore with him.

1665
01:35:01,160 --> 01:35:03,519
Speaker 3: He was I won't go into all the details, but

1666
01:35:03,600 --> 01:35:08,839
Speaker 3: he was trying to basically kidnap the King of Hawaii

1667
01:35:09,000 --> 01:35:13,120
Speaker 3: and get him on his ship, hold him for ransom

1668
01:35:13,200 --> 01:35:15,720
Speaker 3: so that he could get back a rowboat that some

1669
01:35:16,479 --> 01:35:23,759
Speaker 3: Hawaiian warrior had stolen. And uh, he was he was dragging,

1670
01:35:23,840 --> 01:35:25,559
Speaker 3: not quite dragging. He was he.

1671
01:35:25,680 --> 01:35:29,000
Speaker 1: Himself, Like I know, you know every single detail, but

1672
01:35:29,040 --> 01:35:31,439
Speaker 1: like it's just so bizarre to me, like that he

1673
01:35:31,640 --> 01:35:32,519
Speaker 1: himself is.

1674
01:35:32,479 --> 01:35:35,720
Speaker 3: There, He himself went ashore to do this. Uh he

1675
01:35:35,880 --> 01:35:42,720
Speaker 3: was roaring and he was roaring mad. He was roaring mad.

1676
01:35:42,760 --> 01:35:43,599
Speaker 3: He was so mad at this.

1677
01:35:44,160 --> 01:35:45,840
Speaker 1: They won't give us the boat back. By god, I'll

1678
01:35:45,880 --> 01:35:46,280
Speaker 1: get that.

1679
01:35:46,160 --> 01:35:51,160
Speaker 3: Boat pretty much with with a contingent of royal marines

1680
01:35:51,240 --> 01:35:53,639
Speaker 3: who were not very good at their jobs, by the way.

1681
01:35:53,720 --> 01:35:59,960
Speaker 3: And uh uh, things escalated real fast. And here here

1682
01:36:00,120 --> 01:36:02,040
Speaker 3: here's what I will say about his death. Is that

1683
01:36:02,520 --> 01:36:03,200
Speaker 3: almost certain?

1684
01:36:03,280 --> 01:36:05,040
Speaker 1: It all? You lay all the nitty gritty out in

1685
01:36:05,040 --> 01:36:05,320
Speaker 1: the book.

1686
01:36:05,360 --> 01:36:08,120
Speaker 3: Oh my god, yeah, it takes the last third of

1687
01:36:08,120 --> 01:36:12,240
Speaker 3: the book is really kind of what what happened that

1688
01:36:12,680 --> 01:36:17,000
Speaker 3: on that faithful day? But one of the things that

1689
01:36:17,000 --> 01:36:22,040
Speaker 3: they had done book, well, yeah, that's Hawaii. The last

1690
01:36:22,080 --> 01:36:25,880
Speaker 3: third of the book, I suppose it's the last fifty pages.

1691
01:36:25,920 --> 01:36:30,600
Speaker 1: It's the real The risk goes in real slowly, but

1692
01:36:31,080 --> 01:36:33,080
Speaker 1: chapter nineteen, the knife goes deeper.

1693
01:36:34,439 --> 01:36:38,160
Speaker 3: But what's interesting is they the blacksmiths had been churning

1694
01:36:38,160 --> 01:36:43,479
Speaker 3: out these crude knives as gifts to the Hawaiians because

1695
01:36:43,520 --> 01:36:45,599
Speaker 3: they were so interested in metal, and you know, they

1696
01:36:45,600 --> 01:36:50,360
Speaker 3: were just just churning them out as fast as they could.

1697
01:36:50,400 --> 01:36:53,600
Speaker 3: And it's one of those knives. There's crude knives that

1698
01:36:53,680 --> 01:36:57,240
Speaker 3: the British gave them that ended up killing Cook. So no,

1699
01:36:57,400 --> 01:36:59,280
Speaker 3: to self, you know, don't give people you don't know

1700
01:36:59,400 --> 01:37:05,080
Speaker 3: very well a weapon, and that a weapon. So yeah,

1701
01:37:05,120 --> 01:37:07,559
Speaker 3: so that's and then of course there's a lot of

1702
01:37:07,920 --> 01:37:10,960
Speaker 3: debate about what happened to Cook's body. The only parts

1703
01:37:11,000 --> 01:37:15,000
Speaker 3: of him were returned to the British. There's a story that, uh,

1704
01:37:15,400 --> 01:37:22,719
Speaker 3: some young Hawaiian children saw Cook's heart hanging up to dry.

1705
01:37:23,040 --> 01:37:27,360
Speaker 3: And this is a story that Mark Twain uh tells

1706
01:37:27,840 --> 01:37:30,719
Speaker 3: when he visited Hawaii, uh and and that this heart

1707
01:37:30,760 --> 01:37:34,360
Speaker 3: was they thought it was a dog's heart and ate it.

1708
01:37:35,080 --> 01:37:40,040
Speaker 3: So that's really the only possible known incidence of cannibalism here.

1709
01:37:40,200 --> 01:37:42,400
Speaker 1: Twain's getting the story.

1710
01:37:42,640 --> 01:37:43,559
Speaker 3: A century later.

1711
01:37:43,720 --> 01:37:46,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it doesn't say like probably just shy of

1712
01:37:46,240 --> 01:37:47,439
Speaker 1: a century A century later.

1713
01:37:47,360 --> 01:37:49,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, about a century later. Yeah, So take it with

1714
01:37:49,840 --> 01:37:50,320
Speaker 3: a grain of.

1715
01:37:50,280 --> 01:37:53,200
Speaker 1: Salt, take your heart and that story with a grain of.

1716
01:37:53,160 --> 01:37:57,240
Speaker 3: Salt, Yeah, and some cockroach excrement.

1717
01:37:56,800 --> 01:38:05,280
Speaker 1: When he said they gave parts of him back, how

1718
01:38:05,520 --> 01:38:08,280
Speaker 1: like you know, I mean like, well, so.

1719
01:38:08,920 --> 01:38:12,360
Speaker 3: The new captain, whose name is Captain Clark, who was

1720
01:38:12,439 --> 01:38:17,080
Speaker 3: number two now he's number one, is demanding to demanding

1721
01:38:17,120 --> 01:38:19,479
Speaker 3: the Haleaands to give back his remains because the Wines

1722
01:38:19,479 --> 01:38:23,400
Speaker 3: didn't quite understand the British, you know, that they wanted

1723
01:38:23,400 --> 01:38:26,160
Speaker 3: his whole body back. They wanted to have a formal

1724
01:38:26,200 --> 01:38:27,880
Speaker 3: burial at sea.

1725
01:38:27,880 --> 01:38:28,280
Speaker 1: And.

1726
01:38:30,080 --> 01:38:32,360
Speaker 3: They're like, we don't have his body, you know, we

1727
01:38:32,479 --> 01:38:37,240
Speaker 3: have some parts of his body. And they gave him

1728
01:38:38,000 --> 01:38:42,160
Speaker 3: his part of his thigh, some bones, his part of

1729
01:38:42,200 --> 01:38:49,440
Speaker 3: his skull but had been scalped, part of his hat,

1730
01:38:48,160 --> 01:38:54,599
Speaker 3: a couple of items of his clothing. But they what

1731
01:38:54,680 --> 01:38:57,599
Speaker 3: they had done traditionally, I mean, this is what they

1732
01:38:57,600 --> 01:39:00,360
Speaker 3: did to their own revered chiefs. Is they would burn

1733
01:39:00,439 --> 01:39:05,200
Speaker 3: the body, uh, scrape away any remaining flesh, uh and

1734
01:39:05,880 --> 01:39:08,320
Speaker 3: save the bones. That's where the manna was the power

1735
01:39:08,360 --> 01:39:11,960
Speaker 3: of the body. And the different chiefs, would you know,

1736
01:39:12,000 --> 01:39:14,800
Speaker 3: they would spread it all over the island and and

1737
01:39:14,800 --> 01:39:17,800
Speaker 3: and hold onto these bones as relics. And that's what

1738
01:39:17,840 --> 01:39:20,240
Speaker 3: they had planned to do with Cook and did do,

1739
01:39:20,680 --> 01:39:23,280
Speaker 3: but some of the bones somehow got returned, and they

1740
01:39:23,320 --> 01:39:25,720
Speaker 3: assumed that they were Cooks and you know that they

1741
01:39:25,720 --> 01:39:26,720
Speaker 3: were telling the truth.

1742
01:39:27,720 --> 01:39:28,320
Speaker 1: Mess the wrong.

1743
01:39:29,200 --> 01:39:34,000
Speaker 5: How did that not escalate into a full on like

1744
01:39:34,600 --> 01:39:38,280
Speaker 5: my next question, like were they did did the English

1745
01:39:38,400 --> 01:39:40,800
Speaker 5: just feel like they were outnumbered and it would be

1746
01:39:40,920 --> 01:39:42,200
Speaker 5: very dumb or.

1747
01:39:43,600 --> 01:39:46,720
Speaker 3: Like, yes, well it did escalate, by the way, but

1748
01:39:47,120 --> 01:39:50,479
Speaker 3: they wanted those remains back. They also wanted four different

1749
01:39:50,479 --> 01:39:54,920
Speaker 3: Marines also were killed in this auditation, and they wanted

1750
01:39:54,960 --> 01:39:58,080
Speaker 3: the remains of those Marines too, and uh so they.

1751
01:39:58,000 --> 01:40:00,800
Speaker 1: Had a delicate that's a weird deal, likew who are

1752
01:40:00,800 --> 01:40:03,960
Speaker 1: those Holsers do you know? I mean like when someone

1753
01:40:04,040 --> 01:40:06,800
Speaker 1: real famous, like you know, yeah, like Cook, I've never

1754
01:40:06,840 --> 01:40:07,920
Speaker 1: even heard about these other guys.

1755
01:40:07,960 --> 01:40:10,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there's four that met their end.

1756
01:40:10,240 --> 01:40:13,479
Speaker 5: Those people's families are probably there's always some no names

1757
01:40:13,479 --> 01:40:16,759
Speaker 5: in Star Trek that get killed Red Shirts.

1758
01:40:18,240 --> 01:40:21,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, so four other guys, yeah, yeah, and a bunch

1759
01:40:21,760 --> 01:40:24,920
Speaker 3: of Hawaiians probably as many as twenty warriors were killed

1760
01:40:24,960 --> 01:40:27,720
Speaker 3: that day too. That day, yeah, by the Marines who

1761
01:40:28,080 --> 01:40:30,559
Speaker 3: were shooting constants fast. But it took forever to reload

1762
01:40:30,600 --> 01:40:31,400
Speaker 3: these muskets.

1763
01:40:31,439 --> 01:40:32,040
Speaker 1: A gunfight.

1764
01:40:32,320 --> 01:40:34,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, muskets. You know, it takes forever to.

1765
01:40:35,800 --> 01:40:37,320
Speaker 1: In my head. This is Glad to tell me. In

1766
01:40:37,360 --> 01:40:40,519
Speaker 1: my head he was up there, which is him or

1767
01:40:40,560 --> 01:40:42,439
Speaker 1: some other guy, and it was just that I didn't

1768
01:40:42,439 --> 01:40:43,599
Speaker 1: know that broke out into him.

1769
01:40:43,760 --> 01:40:48,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. But so they they waited to escalate and and

1770
01:40:49,120 --> 01:40:53,280
Speaker 3: retaliate because they wanted those remains back. And they figured, well,

1771
01:40:53,320 --> 01:40:55,760
Speaker 3: if they retaliate now, they'll never get the remains back.

1772
01:40:56,080 --> 01:40:58,559
Speaker 3: So they did get the remains back, and then they

1773
01:40:58,560 --> 01:41:01,160
Speaker 3: turned the cannons on on on shore and a lot

1774
01:41:01,200 --> 01:41:03,160
Speaker 3: of people were killed and we I don't know that

1775
01:41:03,200 --> 01:41:06,960
Speaker 3: we ever know how many precisely, but probably hundreds were killed.

1776
01:41:07,360 --> 01:41:11,000
Speaker 3: Really it turned into a kind of a battle, pitch battle.

1777
01:41:11,000 --> 01:41:11,519
Speaker 6: Or just.

1778
01:41:13,680 --> 01:41:17,240
Speaker 1: Man, do you think that well, who knows you think

1779
01:41:17,280 --> 01:41:22,080
Speaker 1: it was that your response would have been like, shit

1780
01:41:22,160 --> 01:41:26,080
Speaker 1: out a little sideways, let's just pull out, yeah, and

1781
01:41:26,680 --> 01:41:29,640
Speaker 1: reapproach this in the future. Yeah, like we're pulling up

1782
01:41:29,720 --> 01:41:33,680
Speaker 1: killing their guy, yeah, over in quhi, over misunderstanding.

1783
01:41:34,120 --> 01:41:38,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, And that's certainly what the captain, Captain Clark

1784
01:41:39,040 --> 01:41:41,680
Speaker 3: wanted to do. He didn't really want to retaliate, but

1785
01:41:41,720 --> 01:41:44,880
Speaker 3: some of the junior officers got extremely pissed off. And

1786
01:41:44,880 --> 01:41:47,439
Speaker 3: one of them is a very famous guy named William Bly

1787
01:41:48,200 --> 01:41:52,000
Speaker 3: you may he becomes famous, uh with the mutiny on

1788
01:41:52,120 --> 01:41:55,720
Speaker 3: the Bounty. I was the master of cook ship. He

1789
01:41:55,840 --> 01:41:57,800
Speaker 3: learned he learned from Cook.

1790
01:41:57,880 --> 01:41:58,120
Speaker 1: You know.

1791
01:41:58,520 --> 01:42:02,800
Speaker 3: The other great officer on this ship was Vancouver, who

1792
01:42:02,920 --> 01:42:04,760
Speaker 3: you know, one of the greatest explorers of all time

1793
01:42:04,800 --> 01:42:08,240
Speaker 3: as well. So this is there's a cast of characters. Vancouver, Yeah,

1794
01:42:08,360 --> 01:42:12,080
Speaker 3: that Vancouver. Yeah. So these young officers get really pissed

1795
01:42:12,080 --> 01:42:15,559
Speaker 3: off that their mentor this man they love, Captain Cooking.

1796
01:42:15,640 --> 01:42:19,759
Speaker 3: They do they do them afraid. It's true, especially Blind.

1797
01:42:19,840 --> 01:42:24,960
Speaker 3: He's he's he's a really uh, severe guy, very very

1798
01:42:25,080 --> 01:42:30,360
Speaker 3: capable seamen, but uh, kind of a badass, take no

1799
01:42:30,560 --> 01:42:31,360
Speaker 3: prisoners kind of.

1800
01:42:31,520 --> 01:42:33,519
Speaker 1: So we'll learn more about Blind in the book.

1801
01:42:33,720 --> 01:42:36,000
Speaker 3: You Will, You Will. He's all over the book. He's

1802
01:42:36,040 --> 01:42:39,000
Speaker 3: he's uh, he's an important part of the story. I

1803
01:42:39,040 --> 01:42:39,960
Speaker 3: forgot to mention him.

1804
01:42:40,080 --> 01:42:43,599
Speaker 1: Dude, I can't wait to read the book. Man, I'm excited.

1805
01:42:43,600 --> 01:42:47,519
Speaker 3: Well, thank you, thanks for having me back. This one

1806
01:42:47,560 --> 01:42:52,040
Speaker 3: took me forever, partly because of COVID, which interrupted research

1807
01:42:52,160 --> 01:42:53,920
Speaker 3: a lot of trips and stuff. But it took me

1808
01:42:53,960 --> 01:42:57,080
Speaker 3: about five years to do, and it's finally out. I

1809
01:42:57,080 --> 01:42:57,720
Speaker 3: can't believe it.

1810
01:42:57,760 --> 01:42:58,559
Speaker 1: What are you doing next?

1811
01:42:59,640 --> 01:43:02,480
Speaker 3: I'm coming back to the West. I'm writing about Colorado,

1812
01:43:02,960 --> 01:43:05,880
Speaker 3: Colorado Territory and during the Civil War. I'm riding about

1813
01:43:05,880 --> 01:43:09,519
Speaker 3: the Sand Creek massacre. I'm riding about the Civil War.

1814
01:43:09,520 --> 01:43:14,400
Speaker 3: I'm riding about the gold Rush and the creation of Denver.

1815
01:43:14,920 --> 01:43:18,040
Speaker 3: Uh another kind of like Blood and Thunder.

1816
01:43:18,120 --> 01:43:20,360
Speaker 1: How are you gonna how are you gonna bracket that out?

1817
01:43:20,640 --> 01:43:23,200
Speaker 3: I'm working on it. I haven't figured it all out yet,

1818
01:43:23,240 --> 01:43:24,000
Speaker 3: but I'm.

1819
01:43:23,760 --> 01:43:26,400
Speaker 1: But you got you narrowed in on like an air

1820
01:43:27,040 --> 01:43:30,200
Speaker 1: a bunch of big events. But like you know, Blood

1821
01:43:30,240 --> 01:43:31,599
Speaker 1: and Thunder was kick.

1822
01:43:31,560 --> 01:43:32,800
Speaker 3: Cars right right?

1823
01:43:32,960 --> 01:43:33,320
Speaker 1: You got it.

1824
01:43:33,400 --> 01:43:36,559
Speaker 3: There's a character who was at sand Creek, an amazing

1825
01:43:36,760 --> 01:43:39,720
Speaker 3: guy named Silas Soul. I don't know if you've heard

1826
01:43:39,760 --> 01:43:42,880
Speaker 3: of him, but he's the officer that refused the orders

1827
01:43:42,920 --> 01:43:48,600
Speaker 3: to attack the Cheyenne and uh uh ended up testifying

1828
01:43:48,600 --> 01:43:55,320
Speaker 3: against his commander, uh Colonel Chivington, and we and we

1829
01:43:55,400 --> 01:43:58,000
Speaker 3: know about what really happened at sand Creek because of

1830
01:43:58,040 --> 01:44:01,479
Speaker 3: this this young man who was twenty six at the time.

1831
01:44:02,400 --> 01:44:05,080
Speaker 3: It was very brave and then was he was ultimately

1832
01:44:05,160 --> 01:44:09,400
Speaker 3: murdered for his for his testimony. So he's the main character.

1833
01:44:10,240 --> 01:44:12,000
Speaker 3: Silas Soul is his name God.

1834
01:44:12,760 --> 01:44:17,120
Speaker 1: But uh yeah, what what can you how do you

1835
01:44:17,160 --> 01:44:18,760
Speaker 1: bracket this in years.

1836
01:44:19,040 --> 01:44:21,880
Speaker 3: During the Civil War basically eighteen sixty to eighteen sixty five.

1837
01:44:21,920 --> 01:44:25,840
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so you'll so it'll be it'll be carried.

1838
01:44:26,680 --> 01:44:28,680
Speaker 1: Whatever you're you're looking at would be carried within those

1839
01:44:28,760 --> 01:44:29,640
Speaker 1: years of the Civil War.

1840
01:44:29,640 --> 01:44:30,719
Speaker 3: And that's my idea.

1841
01:44:30,880 --> 01:44:33,120
Speaker 1: What's cool about that is it's just so unless you're

1842
01:44:33,160 --> 01:44:34,679
Speaker 1: a fan of the good, bad and the ugly, which

1843
01:44:34,680 --> 01:44:42,880
Speaker 1: I am, the the West in the Civil War is

1844
01:44:42,920 --> 01:44:46,040
Speaker 1: not widely understood. I mean, I don't even fully understand it.

1845
01:44:46,080 --> 01:44:47,880
Speaker 1: Like you are surprised to be like, oh, that's right.

1846
01:44:47,920 --> 01:44:50,479
Speaker 1: There was sort of like there's a there's a sort

1847
01:44:50,479 --> 01:44:54,240
Speaker 1: of theater of operations, yeah, in the West and desert

1848
01:44:54,280 --> 01:44:57,200
Speaker 1: Southwest during the Civil War. And everybody's reading about Antietam

1849
01:44:57,280 --> 01:45:00,479
Speaker 1: and Gettysburg, right, but they're like they're like shooting it

1850
01:45:00,479 --> 01:45:01,120
Speaker 1: out in the desert.

1851
01:45:01,160 --> 01:45:03,680
Speaker 3: You know, Well, I live in Santa Fe and I'm

1852
01:45:04,320 --> 01:45:06,400
Speaker 3: you know, I'm very curious about what was going on

1853
01:45:06,479 --> 01:45:10,400
Speaker 3: during the Civil War out here, and you know, there

1854
01:45:10,479 --> 01:45:12,679
Speaker 3: was a big battle near Santa Fe called the Battle

1855
01:45:12,680 --> 01:45:16,200
Speaker 3: of Glory out of pass and uh, this guy of

1856
01:45:16,200 --> 01:45:18,920
Speaker 3: the Soul was there, and you know, and a lot

1857
01:45:18,920 --> 01:45:22,760
Speaker 3: of other Shenanigan's going on out west. It's just, uh,

1858
01:45:23,280 --> 01:45:24,920
Speaker 3: it's a part of the story I think most Americans

1859
01:45:24,920 --> 01:45:26,800
Speaker 3: don't know about, you know, when they talk about the

1860
01:45:26,840 --> 01:45:27,320
Speaker 3: Civil War.

1861
01:45:29,200 --> 01:45:32,839
Speaker 1: Uh, you just go with one of the next Yep.

1862
01:45:32,680 --> 01:45:34,679
Speaker 3: I'm pretty deep into this next one already.

1863
01:45:34,720 --> 01:45:37,479
Speaker 1: You still do magazine reporting, not much anymore.

1864
01:45:38,360 --> 01:45:41,040
Speaker 3: Magazines aren't what they used to be. They're thinner, and

1865
01:45:41,080 --> 01:45:44,200
Speaker 3: they're printed on cheaper paper, and they're kind of sad

1866
01:45:45,800 --> 01:45:47,800
Speaker 3: shadow of what they used to be, it feels like.

1867
01:45:47,920 --> 01:45:50,880
Speaker 3: But I occasionally write for some Yeah, and I still

1868
01:45:50,920 --> 01:45:55,559
Speaker 3: have an association with Outside Magazine, which is uh still

1869
01:45:55,560 --> 01:45:59,760
Speaker 3: great magazines doing what it can. But no, I do.

1870
01:46:00,040 --> 01:46:02,360
Speaker 3: I just focus on the books mainly. It keeps me

1871
01:46:02,400 --> 01:46:04,000
Speaker 3: pretty busy for years at a time.

1872
01:46:04,080 --> 01:46:06,120
Speaker 1: So has Hollywood come knocking about Cook?

1873
01:46:07,479 --> 01:46:11,759
Speaker 3: Not yet, but maybe after this wonderful podcast any better.

1874
01:46:13,360 --> 01:46:16,320
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think, who's gonna he was fifty, he's fifty,

1875
01:46:16,439 --> 01:46:19,680
Speaker 1: I might do my acting. Yeah, yeah, right, start too.

1876
01:46:19,680 --> 01:46:21,320
Speaker 1: I'll be like, I know guy, I know a guy

1877
01:46:21,320 --> 01:46:28,800
Speaker 1: who's exactly that for you blimey, like, no, this guy's

1878
01:46:28,840 --> 01:46:31,640
Speaker 1: exactly that age. He's exactly that age.

1879
01:46:32,439 --> 01:46:32,879
Speaker 3: Perfect.

1880
01:46:34,960 --> 01:46:37,040
Speaker 1: Oh no, I wouldn't because he was fifty when he left.

1881
01:46:37,479 --> 01:46:37,599
Speaker 2: Uh.

1882
01:46:37,960 --> 01:46:40,680
Speaker 1: By the time they make the movie, I'll be the Yeah, yeah,

1883
01:46:40,720 --> 01:46:42,960
Speaker 1: I'll be fifty three. It takes a while for, you know,

1884
01:46:43,000 --> 01:46:44,120
Speaker 1: to get all that under way.

1885
01:46:45,200 --> 01:46:45,360
Speaker 3: Dude.

1886
01:46:45,360 --> 01:46:47,960
Speaker 1: When I do my dying scene on the beach, it's

1887
01:46:47,960 --> 01:46:48,760
Speaker 1: gonna blow you away.

1888
01:46:48,880 --> 01:46:49,080
Speaker 2: Man.

1889
01:46:49,280 --> 01:46:51,360
Speaker 3: You can have Danny Bolten be the guy that kills you.

1890
01:46:53,120 --> 01:46:59,439
Speaker 1: Give speeches, borrow, pull some lines from Shakespeare. It's gonna

1891
01:46:59,439 --> 01:47:00,760
Speaker 1: be a long You.

1892
01:47:00,880 --> 01:47:08,040
Speaker 3: Look good in a tri corn hat and leggings.

1893
01:47:13,280 --> 01:47:14,080
Speaker 1: All right again.

1894
01:47:14,680 --> 01:47:15,000
Speaker 2: Uh.

1895
01:47:15,120 --> 01:47:20,759
Speaker 1: The very excellent writer who meticulous researcher, a great eye

1896
01:47:20,800 --> 01:47:26,439
Speaker 1: for the unusual Hampton sides and the wide wide see

1897
01:47:26,479 --> 01:47:30,720
Speaker 1: Imperial Ambition, First Contact, and the Fateful Final Voyage of

1898
01:47:30,840 --> 01:47:35,400
Speaker 1: Captain James Cook Out now New York Times best selling

1899
01:47:35,439 --> 01:47:40,000
Speaker 1: author of Ghost Soldiers up on top there. Thanks for

1900
01:47:40,040 --> 01:47:41,800
Speaker 1: coming man, appreciate it. Best of luck with the book.

1901
01:47:41,880 --> 01:47:44,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I appreciate it. It's been it's been really fun.

1902
01:47:44,439 --> 01:47:46,600
Speaker 3: I've enjoyed this. All right, great, thank you see you

1903
01:47:46,640 --> 01:47:47,040
Speaker 3: next time.

1904
01:47:50,400 --> 01:47:50,960
Speaker 1: Very well.

1905
01:47:51,600 --> 01:47:59,839
Speaker 7: Le'sperados. Larry okay, and if it runs or mauntains, swim

1906
01:48:00,200 --> 01:48:06,320
Speaker 7: in the scene, bill bag of a saka, a turkey

1907
01:48:06,439 --> 01:48:12,400
Speaker 7: whel bag and then a kill it all over again.

1908
01:48:12,479 --> 01:48:13,519
Speaker 3: On your hair.

1909
01:48:13,920 --> 01:48:20,200
Speaker 7: It's a media a padcast for me. It's a media

1910
01:48:20,320 --> 01:48:21,360
Speaker 7: a podcast

1911
01:48:22,880 --> 01:48:23,400
Speaker 3: For me.