WEBVTT - The Jeffersons vs. Sanford & Son 0:00:14.036 --> 0:00:23.196 Pushing. Hey, Khalil, Hey, hey. The other day, my brother Jake, 0:00:23.436 --> 0:00:26.396 he stopped buying and while he was standing there, I 0:00:26.556 --> 0:00:31.636 secretly dialed his cell phone, okay, secretly. All right, that's intriguing. 0:00:31.956 --> 0:00:45.796 So what happened? Hello? Oh man? You know what that is? Right? Yeah, 0:00:45.836 --> 0:00:48.836 that's the theme song to Sanford and Son. You have 0:00:48.996 --> 0:00:52.996 Quincy Jones. It's the second greatest theme song to a 0:00:53.036 --> 0:00:56.716 show ever. Really, wow? Yeah, like ever, like of all 0:00:56.796 --> 0:01:01.316 theme songs across all television history. I didn't say just television, 0:01:01.356 --> 0:01:04.316 any show, okay, because you know what the best theme 0:01:04.356 --> 0:01:10.996 song is not not moving on up you little lily man. 0:01:12.436 --> 0:01:18.316 Of course some of my best right O? Man? All right, 0:01:18.356 --> 0:01:20.796 So so my brother that's his cell phone ring tone. 0:01:20.836 --> 0:01:22.676 I love it, and of course, of course I had 0:01:22.676 --> 0:01:24.596 to ask him about it. Why do you have that 0:01:24.636 --> 0:01:28.716 as your ring tone? Well? That is my favorite television 0:01:28.716 --> 0:01:33.116 show of all time. I think that uh Red Fox 0:01:33.276 --> 0:01:37.556 is the greatest American comedian. Wow, he doesn't, he doesn't. 0:01:37.596 --> 0:01:40.156 He speaks in absolutes, and I love that. That's my 0:01:40.156 --> 0:01:42.876 brother's right. This, this sparks what I think is going 0:01:42.916 --> 0:01:46.996 to be our episode today that I want to talk 0:01:47.036 --> 0:01:50.156 to you about Samford and Son, and I want to 0:01:50.196 --> 0:01:54.316 talk about it's greatness and all the way Jake is saying, okay, uh, well, 0:01:54.396 --> 0:01:56.596 what I really want to talk to you about is 0:01:56.636 --> 0:01:59.876 how this TV show from the nineteen seventies really does 0:01:59.876 --> 0:02:03.836 the same thing that we always do on this podcast, 0:02:05.236 --> 0:02:07.996 just you know, like, how does it reveal the absurdities 0:02:08.036 --> 0:02:11.636 and challenges of race in America today? Okay, all right, 0:02:11.676 --> 0:02:15.556 so you're saying that for Sandford and Son, it was 0:02:15.596 --> 0:02:19.196 showing us something about the society we're living in when 0:02:19.196 --> 0:02:22.836 that show started, and it's still mad relevant even fifty 0:02:22.916 --> 0:02:25.596 years later. Well, I love we're going to talk about 0:02:25.596 --> 0:02:28.876 Sanford and Son because I want to talk about the Jeffersons, 0:02:29.356 --> 0:02:33.836 which which could not be more opposite to Sandford and Son. 0:02:34.156 --> 0:02:37.716 A story set in a junkyard for a father and son, 0:02:37.956 --> 0:02:40.596 and my story is set in an Upper east Side 0:02:40.716 --> 0:02:45.556 luxury apartment of a striving black family with their son Lionel, 0:02:45.756 --> 0:02:49.916 and the absurdities of their experience as literal newcomers on 0:02:49.956 --> 0:02:53.476 the block of wealth and power or some kind of 0:02:53.476 --> 0:02:57.236 power in America in the nineteen seventies. Okay, okay, So 0:02:57.276 --> 0:02:59.156 this is a special episode of some of my best 0:02:59.156 --> 0:03:02.396 friends are. We're talking about old TV shows, but we're 0:03:02.396 --> 0:03:06.156 really talking about how they're timeless and how they're they're 0:03:06.156 --> 0:03:09.036 relevant to today. And listen, man, this is going to 0:03:09.276 --> 0:03:12.156 be fun. This is gonna be a lot of fun listeners. 0:03:12.196 --> 0:03:14.836 One more thing, I want to give a warning. The 0:03:14.876 --> 0:03:18.396 TV shows that we discussed us some strong racial language, 0:03:18.436 --> 0:03:29.996 including the use of the N word. All Right, Khalil, 0:03:30.036 --> 0:03:32.716 all Right. Sandford and Son, Okay, Sanford Insen goes on 0:03:32.796 --> 0:03:35.196 the air in nineteen seventy two and it runs for 0:03:35.196 --> 0:03:38.156 six seasons on NBC. And I know you know the show, 0:03:38.196 --> 0:03:40.476 but I'm gonna give you a little refresher on what 0:03:40.516 --> 0:03:42.156 it's about. But I haven't seen the show on a 0:03:42.196 --> 0:03:44.556 long time, so it wasn't my homework. And I just 0:03:44.636 --> 0:03:47.356 have to say I didn't realize it was. It premiered 0:03:47.396 --> 0:03:51.196 my birth year in nineteen seventy two. Wow. So here's 0:03:51.196 --> 0:03:54.996 the premise. Okay, there's a father and son adult son. 0:03:55.476 --> 0:03:57.916 They own a junkyard, which you know, like a salvage 0:03:57.956 --> 0:04:02.396 business and antique business in Watts in south central Los Angeles. 0:04:02.796 --> 0:04:05.716 All Right, And the main character's name is Fred Sandford. 0:04:05.956 --> 0:04:08.916 His son is named Lamont. Fred Sandford is played by 0:04:09.196 --> 0:04:12.156 the comedian Red fast Right and lamont is played by 0:04:12.196 --> 0:04:15.236 Demand Wilson. Okay, so a lot of the show is 0:04:15.276 --> 0:04:17.996 just this kind of situational humor of the father and 0:04:18.036 --> 0:04:22.516 son dynamic. Fred's a widower, he is he doesn't want 0:04:22.556 --> 0:04:24.276 his son to move out. He wants him to keep 0:04:24.276 --> 0:04:26.796 on living with him. And lamonton this is a funny 0:04:26.836 --> 0:04:29.476 kind of way that humor works. Is kind of miserable, 0:04:29.716 --> 0:04:32.036 you know, like miserable because he wants to get away 0:04:32.076 --> 0:04:33.556 from his pops. He doesn't want to have anything to 0:04:33.596 --> 0:04:35.516 do with the family business. What is it. He just 0:04:35.556 --> 0:04:37.356 feels like he feels a lot of resentment and he 0:04:37.396 --> 0:04:39.636 feels like a kind of failure and so so listen 0:04:39.676 --> 0:04:41.636 to this. This is a clip from the first episode. 0:04:41.876 --> 0:04:45.116 I just can't stand being poor at this poor you 0:04:45.196 --> 0:04:48.196 think this is poor? Lisa Chia was seven us in 0:04:48.236 --> 0:04:52.716 the family. Seven be slept in the same room, same bed, 0:04:53.116 --> 0:04:59.196 same underwear. That's cool. When I was a young stout 0:04:59.196 --> 0:05:02.436 war one pep tissues five years warm out up to 0:05:02.516 --> 0:05:08.076 the name on the ankle, don't didn't shoot the head 0:05:08.116 --> 0:05:17.436 called kids. I won't mind the lastick yo yo? I mean, so, 0:05:17.836 --> 0:05:21.196 what what is so powerful? And wonderful about that is 0:05:21.236 --> 0:05:24.876 that you can hear Red Fox just doing stand up right, 0:05:24.956 --> 0:05:27.676 Like the show is just a set piece for a 0:05:27.756 --> 0:05:32.076 riff that that he's probably done many times before. Yeah, totally, totally. 0:05:32.116 --> 0:05:35.316 And you know, I'll just take a step back because 0:05:35.796 --> 0:05:38.636 like a lot of American sitcoms, it's based on a 0:05:38.676 --> 0:05:42.676 British sitcom and also like a lot of American sitcoms, 0:05:43.156 --> 0:05:47.156 it's written and produced by Jewish people. All right, all right, 0:05:47.636 --> 0:05:50.556 but just like you said, the thing that that that 0:05:50.676 --> 0:05:53.676 changes it is like the secret sauce is Red Fox 0:05:53.796 --> 0:05:57.956 the comedian. He's a comic genius. U. He is just 0:05:58.116 --> 0:06:00.196 you know, even when the show comes on in the 0:06:00.196 --> 0:06:03.996 air in nineteen seventy two, he is a wildly successful comic. Okay, 0:06:03.996 --> 0:06:06.956 so his reputation is already he's already a superstar. He's 0:06:06.956 --> 0:06:09.556 like the Eddie Murphy of his generation. Yeah, you know, 0:06:09.676 --> 0:06:12.436 and so much, so much of the comedy. It's not 0:06:12.476 --> 0:06:15.636 the writing of the jokes, it's his delivery. It's it's 0:06:15.676 --> 0:06:19.476 the way his facial expressions, his sight gags, the way 0:06:19.516 --> 0:06:22.156 he walks, the way he moves. Going back to what 0:06:22.196 --> 0:06:24.676 my brother says, you know, my brother actually has studied 0:06:24.716 --> 0:06:27.196 Red Fox. Jake says that Red Fox is like a 0:06:27.316 --> 0:06:32.156 jazz musician, improvising with each measure like and and and 0:06:32.156 --> 0:06:34.236 and I'll just give you an example. So, like I'm 0:06:34.276 --> 0:06:36.396 going to play another clip for you right here. It's 0:06:36.396 --> 0:06:39.676 the start of another episode. Fred says it's his birthday. 0:06:39.676 --> 0:06:42.476 He's like singing happy and so first for someone who 0:06:42.516 --> 0:06:44.716 may never have seen Fred Stanford. And I was just 0:06:44.756 --> 0:06:47.636 about to say, he just he just turned sixty four. 0:06:48.436 --> 0:06:51.876 And so so he's gonna call the Social Security Office 0:06:51.876 --> 0:06:55.396 because it's check start when his check start coming in 0:06:56.156 --> 0:06:59.836 time to get paid. Listen to that this recording does 0:06:59.876 --> 0:07:03.396 not repeat, So please wait until a line is free. 0:07:04.036 --> 0:07:09.116 And I wouldn't have to wait about it. White, That's 0:07:09.116 --> 0:07:14.276 like one of the funniest jokes ever. That's just one 0:07:14.316 --> 0:07:17.116 of them. And his delivery is deadpan delivery. But man, 0:07:17.156 --> 0:07:19.116 I gotta tell you the set up to this joke. 0:07:19.596 --> 0:07:21.676 There's like two or three minutes of him just like 0:07:21.716 --> 0:07:25.396 looking for his glasses of you know, looking like crmudgeon 0:07:25.516 --> 0:07:27.956 walking over there knowing that the comedy is just emanates 0:07:27.956 --> 0:07:31.516 from its physical I think it's just physical guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:07:31.516 --> 0:07:33.476 When I was preparing for this you know this show 0:07:33.516 --> 0:07:36.156 with you. I watched an episode with Danielle, my wife, 0:07:36.436 --> 0:07:38.596 and in one of the episodes, he's putting on a 0:07:38.676 --> 0:07:41.436 dupei and like for two minutes he's just looking at 0:07:41.476 --> 0:07:43.476 in the in the mirror putting on the dupe. It 0:07:43.636 --> 0:07:45.916 is fall on the floor funny, all right, Like it 0:07:45.956 --> 0:07:48.316 is just it's his facial expression and everything about But 0:07:48.356 --> 0:07:50.636 the one thing I wanted to say about that delivery 0:07:50.756 --> 0:07:52.716 that I wouldn't have to wait as I if I 0:07:52.756 --> 0:07:55.836 was white, is it's both genius in terms of being 0:07:55.876 --> 0:08:00.276 such a simple punchline, but it also contains a little 0:08:00.316 --> 0:08:03.236 bit of anger in it. Like it it feels a 0:08:03.236 --> 0:08:06.076 little bit like like like you're laughing, but you're like, 0:08:06.116 --> 0:08:09.316 oh wow, he's serious, okay. And so this gets me 0:08:09.396 --> 0:08:11.036 to the next thing I want to talk about exactly 0:08:11.036 --> 0:08:14.076 that of like what it means to have a black 0:08:14.116 --> 0:08:16.396 cast and for this to be a black show. It's 0:08:16.396 --> 0:08:19.756 set in a black neighborhood in Los Angeles, um and 0:08:19.916 --> 0:08:23.276 the cast around him. Red Fox sort of brings in 0:08:23.316 --> 0:08:25.636 the people that he's worked with on the Chitland circuit. 0:08:25.676 --> 0:08:29.396 You know, they're sort of like older, older entertainers, lesser 0:08:29.476 --> 0:08:34.316 nous people like him. You know, if you've watched the show, 0:08:34.356 --> 0:08:37.556 the people who played Grady and Esther, all of them 0:08:37.556 --> 0:08:39.716 are like his friends. And it's it's just part of 0:08:39.716 --> 0:08:43.196 the humor is just seeing comedians so comfortable with one 0:08:43.196 --> 0:08:45.316 another being themselves. And I know, I know, the child 0:08:45.356 --> 0:08:48.876 circuit is common enough a term, but it's not exactly 0:08:48.916 --> 0:08:53.076 a household term. So it's a term for for the 0:08:53.156 --> 0:08:56.876 places where black people performed for black people, mostly in 0:08:56.916 --> 0:09:00.636 the South, Duke joints, speakeasies, you know. It was it 0:09:00.716 --> 0:09:04.156 was just basically wherever black people could get together outside 0:09:04.196 --> 0:09:06.796 the gays of white people and have a good time. Yeah, 0:09:06.876 --> 0:09:09.636 like there's always been an alternative universe as especially during 0:09:09.756 --> 0:09:13.156 segregated America. Um. And so you might know this, but 0:09:13.156 --> 0:09:16.516 but this is this is essentially the first predominantly black 0:09:16.556 --> 0:09:19.316 cast since Amos and Andy comes out in the nineteen 0:09:19.396 --> 0:09:21.476 did not know that, you know, an Aminus Andy, which 0:09:21.556 --> 0:09:24.516 is often criticized for a kind of minstrelsy, But you know, 0:09:24.516 --> 0:09:27.276 this is this is like twenty plus years later. Um 0:09:28.076 --> 0:09:30.556 and you know, and and this is the other thing 0:09:30.596 --> 0:09:32.996 I want to say, man, Like this show in the 0:09:33.036 --> 0:09:36.436 seventies is wildly popular. Okay, So it's not just for 0:09:36.516 --> 0:09:39.036 black audience. It is one of the most popular shows 0:09:39.036 --> 0:09:42.556 in America. Before this show, it seems like The Brady Bunch, 0:09:42.596 --> 0:09:44.316 which is like, if people don't know, it's the whitest 0:09:44.316 --> 0:09:46.436 show ever, and it's a it's a version of of 0:09:46.556 --> 0:09:49.516 Los Angeles and suburban Los Angeles, which couldn't be whider. 0:09:49.756 --> 0:09:52.836 It's it's like leave It to Beaver nineteen fifty stuff. Um. 0:09:53.276 --> 0:09:57.036 But but then, so this show is about race and 0:09:57.116 --> 0:10:00.196 also about class. You know, they're poor and it's it's comedy, 0:10:00.236 --> 0:10:02.716 so it's not like it's always social issues. But this 0:10:02.756 --> 0:10:06.036 show and the majority of the most popular shows during 0:10:06.076 --> 0:10:09.796 this era are all similar shows. All all in the Family, 0:10:09.836 --> 0:10:13.116 which your white working class family. So good Times, Chico 0:10:13.156 --> 0:10:16.956 and the Man, Welcome Back Cotter Rhoda, Mary Tyler Moore, 0:10:16.996 --> 0:10:20.356 who is about a working woman. This is so fascinating 0:10:20.396 --> 0:10:23.396 because like that's so different from today. Yeah, I mean, 0:10:23.396 --> 0:10:25.196 we can talk about this later after you talk about 0:10:25.236 --> 0:10:28.316 the Jeffersons of what this means. But but man, like 0:10:28.476 --> 0:10:31.956 did we regress? Like you know, I think about almost 0:10:31.996 --> 0:10:35.116 every show today sort of creates this classless world, like 0:10:35.196 --> 0:10:38.396 people are so wealthy in some unnamed way. That you 0:10:38.396 --> 0:10:40.996 don't even have to talk about money. All these shows, 0:10:41.236 --> 0:10:44.556 all these shows in the seventies are about pretty much 0:10:44.636 --> 0:10:47.516 kind of like either working class or impoverished people, and 0:10:47.636 --> 0:10:49.676 race is at the center. And like think about like 0:10:49.996 --> 0:10:53.556 this is after civil Rights, after sort of the racial 0:10:53.596 --> 0:10:57.156 turmoil and riots and uprisings of the nineteen sixties. It's 0:10:57.196 --> 0:10:59.756 after Attica in nineteen seventy one. Like this is a 0:10:59.836 --> 0:11:03.836 year after that, this prison uprising and violent repression that 0:11:03.916 --> 0:11:07.356 kills thirty nine people. This is America. Is like, even 0:11:07.356 --> 0:11:09.996 as America is sort of becoming way more conservative, like 0:11:10.116 --> 0:11:12.916 Nixon as president, and like we're moving into the Reagan years, 0:11:13.716 --> 0:11:18.756 comedy is still like in this moment, fascinated by the 0:11:18.756 --> 0:11:20.756 world race and class. Yeah, can I add one thing? 0:11:20.796 --> 0:11:23.196 So I looked up a New Yorker article dating to 0:11:23.356 --> 0:11:27.276 nineteen seventy five, and a critic was looking at the 0:11:27.316 --> 0:11:30.356 world of Norman Lear, who is behind the shows that 0:11:30.436 --> 0:11:32.796 you mentioned totally, and of course San Francis and the the 0:11:32.836 --> 0:11:35.596 Jeffersons we're talking about today. But just to emphasize the 0:11:35.636 --> 0:11:39.956 point you've made, the critic in nineteen seventy five estimated 0:11:40.316 --> 0:11:44.356 that one hundred and twenty million people watched every week 0:11:44.916 --> 0:11:48.716 one of those shows or more, and the critic estimates 0:11:48.756 --> 0:11:52.796 that that amounted to five billion people watching a year 0:11:52.916 --> 0:11:56.036 or five billion views a year. Can you imagine the 0:11:56.196 --> 0:11:59.676 reach of those shows? Just to your point, what happened 0:11:59.836 --> 0:12:05.876 where America? Who? This was saturating the culture and as 0:12:05.916 --> 0:12:07.836 part of whatever backlash, I mean, this is also the 0:12:07.876 --> 0:12:09.916 start of mass and cars rat at this moment and 0:12:09.996 --> 0:12:14.076 other things. Um that that moves away from these topics. Well, 0:12:14.076 --> 0:12:16.676 what you're saying, I mean in short, is that people 0:12:16.716 --> 0:12:20.116 were learning something meaningful and impactful. Yeah, all right, So 0:12:20.396 --> 0:12:23.116 I don't want to oversell Sandford and Son as sort 0:12:23.156 --> 0:12:29.316 of like you know, as the truth. So much of 0:12:29.356 --> 0:12:32.516 the humor is also like all in the family, Fred 0:12:32.556 --> 0:12:36.236 Sandford is a total big Fred Sandford is a racist. 0:12:36.236 --> 0:12:40.876 Fred Stanford is ignorant as all right, that's the joke. 0:12:41.316 --> 0:12:44.996 That's the joke, okay, Like like he is completely provincial 0:12:45.236 --> 0:12:48.356 and you're seeing how somebody thinks, you know, when they're 0:12:48.596 --> 0:12:52.116 they're by themselves. I'll add that like almost every sitcom 0:12:52.156 --> 0:12:56.396 operates this way, that that we learn the exaggerated limitations 0:12:56.436 --> 0:12:59.916 of a character, that characters are super limited, and then 0:12:59.956 --> 0:13:02.236 they get to be put in moments in situations, and 0:13:02.276 --> 0:13:04.436 we get to see their limitations play out. Got it, 0:13:04.516 --> 0:13:08.116 often in very problematic ways and then like sometimes in 0:13:08.196 --> 0:13:11.196 sweet ways where they overcome their limitations. So you can 0:13:11.436 --> 0:13:14.156 you can reproduce this over The Office is exactly like that, 0:13:14.556 --> 0:13:17.676 or Abbot Elementary is exactly like that. Almost every show 0:13:17.756 --> 0:13:21.076 is exactly like that. Um and Fred is universal in 0:13:21.116 --> 0:13:26.076 his targets. Okay, everybody comes. Oh man, it's about Jewish people. 0:13:26.316 --> 0:13:29.276 He talks about Latinos, he talks about Asians. He sort 0:13:29.316 --> 0:13:31.636 of shakes his hand in this way. They like assuming 0:13:31.636 --> 0:13:33.476 people are gay over and over again, and that's you know, 0:13:33.476 --> 0:13:36.116 that's a lot of like laugh lines. And also other 0:13:36.156 --> 0:13:39.516 black people. There's a there's this funny episode where he 0:13:40.076 --> 0:13:42.196 goes to the dentist and he has a black dentist, 0:13:42.276 --> 0:13:43.916 and of course he's like, no, no, no, this guy 0:13:43.956 --> 0:13:46.436 can't be good. Okay, I want the white dentist, you know, 0:13:46.516 --> 0:13:49.716 like like the all saying that white ice is colder 0:13:49.716 --> 0:13:54.756 than than anyone Else's all right, So here's where I 0:13:54.796 --> 0:13:56.956 want to go with this, Khalil, I need to share 0:13:57.196 --> 0:14:00.276 one specific episode with you because this sort of is 0:14:00.316 --> 0:14:05.076 like where Samfordisson takes this race stuff in a really 0:14:05.156 --> 0:14:08.596 a different place, in an interesting place. Um, there's an 0:14:08.596 --> 0:14:13.356 episode nineteen seventy four called Fred Sandford Legal Eagle and 0:14:13.356 --> 0:14:18.956 and here's what he sets up a business to to provide. 0:14:18.436 --> 0:14:21.876 LaMonte gets a traffic ticket. Okay, you know he's in Watts. 0:14:21.876 --> 0:14:24.836 He's in South Central, an all black neighborhood, and he 0:14:24.956 --> 0:14:27.636 stopped by a white cop and he feels that had 0:14:27.636 --> 0:14:31.076 happened unjustly. And just a question for you, is the 0:14:31.156 --> 0:14:33.796 context of the Watts Uprising, which had occurred in nineteen 0:14:33.876 --> 0:14:37.796 sixty five and had like totally transformed the conversation about 0:14:37.836 --> 0:14:40.556 civil rights, would lead to the Kerner Report on de Johnson, 0:14:40.636 --> 0:14:43.716 Like is that part? Is there any signposting of that 0:14:43.796 --> 0:14:46.116 in this episode. I'm so glad you brought that up 0:14:46.396 --> 0:14:49.716 because kind of listen to this and well we'll come 0:14:49.756 --> 0:14:51.436 back to that, like put a pin of that, because 0:14:52.236 --> 0:14:56.076 how could you imagine people know Watts and no sound 0:14:56.116 --> 0:14:58.756 Central because of that, and yet it's you know, so 0:14:58.956 --> 0:15:02.756 it defines the everyone's conception of that. It's the only 0:15:02.796 --> 0:15:05.036 thing most people actually know who are not have ever 0:15:05.076 --> 0:15:09.796 heard California. Yeah, yeah, all right. So Lamont feels like 0:15:09.836 --> 0:15:12.476 he's been profiled. So he's going to fight the ticket 0:15:12.516 --> 0:15:16.356 in court. And here is Lamont on the witness stands 0:15:16.356 --> 0:15:19.316 as the judge tells him he can't address the white 0:15:19.316 --> 0:15:23.116 cop in court in the courtroom directly, Oh, mister Sandford, 0:15:23.116 --> 0:15:25.236 I would think that whatever question you had would be 0:15:25.236 --> 0:15:28.516 better asked by your counsel. Are you represented by counsel? Well? 0:15:28.596 --> 0:15:31.396 See when I came up here, I figured it. Did 0:15:31.436 --> 0:15:33.476 you say that that question could be better answered by 0:15:33.476 --> 0:15:37.956 his counsule? That is correct? Who are you? I'm his consul? 0:15:41.676 --> 0:15:44.756 All right? So here we are classic sitcom set up, 0:15:44.796 --> 0:15:48.556 fish out of water, Fred Sandford, who's always disruptive wherever 0:15:48.596 --> 0:15:50.836 he goes. He doesn't follow any of the rules. He's 0:15:50.836 --> 0:15:53.716 it's his obliviousness. He just doesn't care. A moment where 0:15:53.716 --> 0:15:56.916 you can just you let Fred be Fred. And and 0:15:56.956 --> 0:15:59.316 so I need you to hear what happens next and 0:15:59.316 --> 0:16:01.436 how this because I'm thinking does this work to Lamont's 0:16:01.476 --> 0:16:05.676 advantage or not? Oh? Man, it's crazy because because I 0:16:05.796 --> 0:16:08.316 am actually not sure even what to make of this 0:16:08.396 --> 0:16:13.436 moment From from UH Network Television in nineteen seventy four, 0:16:13.516 --> 0:16:18.196 k So Fred, acting as Lamont's lawyer, he turns to 0:16:18.276 --> 0:16:23.356 the lap D officer and begins to question him. Okay, listen, 0:16:23.916 --> 0:16:27.036 why don't you arrest some white rabbits? I do you do? 0:16:29.036 --> 0:16:37.956 Look at all these niggas, indiot, there's enough niggas in 0:16:38.036 --> 0:16:48.356 here to make a Tarzan movie. Oh gosh, oh man, 0:16:48.876 --> 0:16:53.596 oh my goodness. Yes, that's network television. That is honest, 0:16:53.676 --> 0:16:59.396 network unbelievable. Yeah, so I think I think, yeah, you 0:16:59.436 --> 0:17:03.556 go ahead. No, you were five. I was three, And like, 0:17:03.716 --> 0:17:06.316 although we didn't watch these when they premiered, we grew 0:17:06.396 --> 0:17:08.796 up on these and and frankly our kids have watched 0:17:08.876 --> 0:17:11.196 TV Land versions of these shows. It's just it's just 0:17:11.556 --> 0:17:15.396 it's just incredible to think about the racial politics and 0:17:15.556 --> 0:17:20.276 the language and the raw edge of social commentary and 0:17:20.316 --> 0:17:25.356 criticism expressed in that moment. Yeah, yeah, that's really well put. Uh, 0:17:25.516 --> 0:17:28.316 this is something I learned from Jake. Also, Paul Mooney 0:17:28.716 --> 0:17:31.356 helped write that episode. Paul Mooney, the black writer. He 0:17:31.396 --> 0:17:33.716 wrote for Richard Pryor. He people might have seen him 0:17:33.756 --> 0:17:37.676 on Chappelle's show. He was a recurring character as well. Um, 0:17:37.796 --> 0:17:40.436 and so he wrote that that line, and he thought 0:17:40.476 --> 0:17:43.636 the joke was the second part about Tarzan, which is, 0:17:43.676 --> 0:17:45.836 you know there is supposed to be said in Africa. 0:17:46.236 --> 0:17:48.876 But but there's such a laugh line of just Fred 0:17:49.276 --> 0:17:54.076 stating the truth and stating it with this you know, flourish, 0:17:54.156 --> 0:17:56.916 this embellished word that you don't hear on network television. Well, 0:17:56.996 --> 0:17:59.516 well not anymore. But it turns out you yeah, because 0:17:59.716 --> 0:18:03.156 we get to the jefferences. Boy oh boy. But like 0:18:03.236 --> 0:18:08.716 the joke is just stating the facts. It's stating the 0:18:08.836 --> 0:18:13.396 sense of racial oppression. And how is that funny? Right, 0:18:13.436 --> 0:18:15.676 Like that's kind of why it's well, it's stating it. 0:18:15.796 --> 0:18:17.796 I mean, I'm hearing it again for the first time 0:18:17.836 --> 0:18:20.116 maybe ever and certainly in a long time if I 0:18:20.156 --> 0:18:23.636 watched it at all, and it's like that earlier clip 0:18:23.676 --> 0:18:27.596 you played. It's both hilarious for the inside humor that 0:18:27.596 --> 0:18:31.076 that speaks to black people, right because they've all been 0:18:31.116 --> 0:18:36.156 there in that moment, and also the searing criticism that 0:18:36.316 --> 0:18:39.476 the in word is the way in which the criminal 0:18:39.516 --> 0:18:43.636 justice system treated and understood black people as deserving of 0:18:43.676 --> 0:18:47.996 this this punitive system. Yeah, and I'm going to add 0:18:48.036 --> 0:18:52.916 something about this episode because Fred is also undercutting the politics. 0:18:54.036 --> 0:18:56.356 All of his cronies come to the courtroom, you know, 0:18:56.436 --> 0:19:01.796 all of his buddies Ubb Grady and and he's actually 0:19:01.876 --> 0:19:05.276 betting with them whether Lamont's going to get h you know, 0:19:05.676 --> 0:19:07.876 get off or not. You know. So he's like got 0:19:07.916 --> 0:19:09.676 two to one odds and so on. And he's like 0:19:09.716 --> 0:19:12.076 even as he's saying this, he's winking to his friends. 0:19:13.076 --> 0:19:16.396 So it's just funny. Like he's speaking in many voices, 0:19:16.436 --> 0:19:18.276 if you know what I mean, Like like it's working 0:19:18.316 --> 0:19:23.236 on all these different levels. And yeah, I just something 0:19:23.276 --> 0:19:27.716 about this, the seriousness of this moment of being part 0:19:27.756 --> 0:19:31.196 of the national conversation. And you talked about the Watts riots. 0:19:31.236 --> 0:19:34.276 I mean, here it is about the Watts riots. Yeah, 0:19:34.316 --> 0:19:37.076 it's exactly because I mean it's not stated. I mean, 0:19:37.116 --> 0:19:40.756 and obviously most people know this, but the Watts riot 0:19:40.916 --> 0:19:44.356 in a thousand other ones were all centered around some 0:19:44.436 --> 0:19:49.996 police activity, some instance of police brutality and justice outright killing. 0:19:50.236 --> 0:19:53.076 I mean almost every so called civil disturbance of the 0:19:53.116 --> 0:19:57.236 time period, riot or uprising, all centered around policing. Yeah, 0:19:57.276 --> 0:19:59.996 but let's take a quick break and when we come back, 0:20:00.476 --> 0:20:02.356 you can break down some stuff to me about the 0:20:02.436 --> 0:20:04.836 Jeffersons and we'll think about the connections and what to 0:20:04.916 --> 0:20:20.236 make of this. Do it welcome? Back to some of 0:20:20.236 --> 0:20:23.116 my best friends are Ben Man. That was so much 0:20:23.196 --> 0:20:27.236 fun revisiting Sanford and Son and hearing Red Fox. I mean, 0:20:27.316 --> 0:20:30.436 someone who was before our time, but you know we 0:20:30.556 --> 0:20:32.316 got we got to know a little bit of him 0:20:32.316 --> 0:20:36.116 through Sandford and Son. Oh. Just but but always right 0:20:36.196 --> 0:20:40.156 on time, exactly. You know. I just want to talk 0:20:40.196 --> 0:20:43.516 about in the context of what's happening just years after 0:20:43.556 --> 0:20:46.236 the Civil Rights Movement. This is the period of time, 0:20:46.276 --> 0:20:50.476 by early nineteen seventy when when a whole new generation 0:20:50.516 --> 0:20:54.236 of black people are entering into they're they're becoming mayors 0:20:54.276 --> 0:20:58.596 of cities, they are moving into positions in middle management 0:20:58.716 --> 0:21:01.156 and companies all over the place. I call this the 0:21:01.236 --> 0:21:05.596 era of black firsts Black first, Okay, that's right. And 0:21:05.876 --> 0:21:07.996 another way to think of it is it's also the 0:21:08.076 --> 0:21:11.876 age of the self made black man and woman. Anyone 0:21:12.276 --> 0:21:15.596 of that generation picking up an Ebony magazine or a 0:21:15.676 --> 0:21:19.796 Jet magazine would see, you know, these beautiful black people 0:21:19.836 --> 0:21:23.676 in full color, you know, celebrating black excellence in the 0:21:23.836 --> 0:21:27.836 nineteen seventies and eighties especially, Yeah, yeah, interesting. So the 0:21:27.876 --> 0:21:31.156 image of Sanford, instead of being so impoverished and kind 0:21:31.156 --> 0:21:35.196 of run down and slovenly not that like that sort 0:21:35.196 --> 0:21:38.036 of cuts against this image. That's right, because the image 0:21:38.036 --> 0:21:41.996 of poverty had always defined the sort of debate about 0:21:42.036 --> 0:21:45.596 black people coming out of slavery then as sharecroppers, and 0:21:45.676 --> 0:21:48.836 of course black Southerners through the Civil rights movement had 0:21:48.836 --> 0:21:52.356 always always presented themselves as respectable. You know, you never 0:21:52.356 --> 0:21:54.796 saw anybody in a civil rights protest that was covered 0:21:54.796 --> 0:21:56.596 by the news who wasn't in a three piece suit 0:21:56.636 --> 0:21:59.436 and wearing a fancy fedor or a woman in the skirt. 0:22:00.036 --> 0:22:02.756 So super interesting man, because because a critique of Sanford 0:22:02.756 --> 0:22:04.996 and Son from at the time was that he's not 0:22:05.076 --> 0:22:07.316 like a credit to the race. You know that that 0:22:07.596 --> 0:22:10.076 that this isn't what the Osby Show would be like 0:22:10.116 --> 0:22:12.916 in the nineteen eighties, where everything is pristine. That's right. 0:22:13.116 --> 0:22:16.796 So there is a tension. I mean, what Sanford and 0:22:16.956 --> 0:22:20.916 Son brings to the national cultural milieu of that time 0:22:21.116 --> 0:22:25.316 is this essentially kind of war between two competing images 0:22:25.356 --> 0:22:27.836 of Black America. What year does the Jeffersons appear in 0:22:27.916 --> 0:22:31.956 nineteen seventy five is when the chopin years that seems 0:22:31.956 --> 0:22:33.796 so much earlier than I would have thought. I remember 0:22:33.836 --> 0:22:36.956 watching it, you know, aln Air at the time. It 0:22:37.036 --> 0:22:39.596 must have been later episodes, but I remember watching it 0:22:39.636 --> 0:22:41.756 with my brother. Well, the curious thing is it ran 0:22:41.836 --> 0:22:45.076 for eleven seasons, so by the time through the eighties, 0:22:45.116 --> 0:22:47.996 that's right, we were thirteen fourteen years old, just about 0:22:48.036 --> 0:22:50.116 high school by the time this show actually went off 0:22:50.156 --> 0:22:52.676 the air, so we captured a lot of time. But 0:22:52.836 --> 0:22:54.916 talking about this age of the self made black man 0:22:54.956 --> 0:22:59.556 and woman, Richard Nixon actually initiates in his presidency in 0:22:59.596 --> 0:23:01.916 his first term after he's election in nineteen sixty eight, 0:23:02.116 --> 0:23:05.996 he's going to try to pick off black people by 0:23:06.196 --> 0:23:11.516 initiating this domestic policy of black capitalism. And what that meant, 0:23:11.556 --> 0:23:16.156 practically speaking, was by turning black people into capitalists, by 0:23:16.276 --> 0:23:19.436 encouraging the private sector to give them jobs, by making 0:23:19.476 --> 0:23:22.556 some key appointments in the federal government, by establishing a 0:23:22.596 --> 0:23:27.756 small business loan operation which ultimately produces minority and women 0:23:27.996 --> 0:23:31.476 contracts to this very day for federal and state local contracting. 0:23:31.876 --> 0:23:34.916 Nixon was like, I'm going to secure the future of 0:23:34.916 --> 0:23:38.596