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Speaker 1: Still getting used to the video thing, Like I can't

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Speaker 1: hunch if you like Larry King with my shoulders all

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Speaker 1: the way up, A very important story for you today.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why that's that's not Larry King, who

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Speaker 1: did Larry King, Mary, Larry Queen, Larry Queen. But one

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Speaker 1: day we'll do the Larry King Larry Queen's story. Well,

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Speaker 1: since we don't often have much else to talk about,

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Speaker 1: we did go to the movies. We did. We got

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Speaker 1: to see The Fableman's. It was different than I thought,

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Speaker 1: but it was beautiful. We talked about it for like

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Speaker 1: two hours, still still coming up with things to say

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Speaker 1: about it. The performances were so so good and I

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Speaker 1: just can't recommend it. And I've loved it seriously plastic.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was gonna be way more like Baby

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Speaker 1: Spielberg learns to love movies. Yeah, it was that, but

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Speaker 1: it was way more about The Fableman's Like it was

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Speaker 1: a story about a family and uh and a fascinating one.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm to tie it into aiculous romance.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's about a couple, about love and romance,

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Speaker 1: and it's about like all the ways that relationships work.

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Speaker 1: What kind of different kinds of love and I don't know,

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Speaker 1: it's just it was just really color. Be surprised a

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Speaker 1: good Steven Spielberg movie had to happen. So I'm telling you,

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Speaker 1: I think this Spielberg guy, he's got it. He's got it.

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Speaker 1: He's really good. We'll we'll see more from him. I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty sure, mark my words. Check it out. I loved it.

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Speaker 1: You heard it here first Ridiculous Romance. Go see The

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Speaker 1: Fableman's directed by Steven Spielberg in theaters are on demand. Now, wow,

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Speaker 1: that was a good commercial. I'll be expecting my bag

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Speaker 1: of money in the mail, Mr Spielberg, or at least

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Speaker 1: a partner next film. Oh, now that would be You're welcome.

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Speaker 1: One more experience in our I r L media consuming

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Speaker 1: lives that relates into ridiculous Romance. And we're not going

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Speaker 1: to talk about it. I promise you won't give any details.

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Speaker 1: But this week's the last of US episode. You guys,

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Speaker 1: just if you like Ridiculous Romance, oh my god, well

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Speaker 1: go watch it right now, just this one episode. If

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Speaker 1: you don't want to watch everything, it's fine. Be like,

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Speaker 1: I don't like zombies. I don't want to watch a

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Speaker 1: Gore episode. This is just watch this one. It's its

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Speaker 1: own little movie, and it's just wonderful, wonderful. I loved it,

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Speaker 1: cried in the best way. It's wonderful, such a cool

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Speaker 1: way to like, I don't know, just have a cool

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Speaker 1: moment and an apocalypse, you know, sett Yeah, isn't that

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Speaker 1: what we're all looking for? I meancase, I'm so sick

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Speaker 1: of the Apocalypse being full of lame moments. Yeah, ohurres

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Speaker 1: the cool moments of the Apocalypse. I'm chilling. I gotta say.

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Speaker 1: In recent years, you know, what's what's the superpower you'd want? Right,

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Speaker 1: It's always a big question. I want to fly, I

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Speaker 1: want super strength, immortality, whatever I want. Click, I want

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Speaker 1: the Adam Sandler remote where I can just fast forward,

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Speaker 1: because I so often am like this storyline is stupid

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Speaker 1: and I wanted to be over zip. Not even world events,

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Speaker 1: sometimes just like personal stuff like oh I've got a cold,

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Speaker 1: you know, fast forward. I don't This is a dumb

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Speaker 1: chapter and I don't feel like reading it. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think that a lot about days of my life

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Speaker 1: sometimes where I'm like stupid, don't like it skipped today.

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Speaker 1: I know it's not gonna it's not. It's inconsequential in

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Speaker 1: a long run. So can we just damn can we

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Speaker 1: just move forward? No? What wasn't boring was that I

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Speaker 1: recently got to attend the Orlando Winter Mini Fringe in January. Um,

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Speaker 1: the Orlando Fringe is huge, and they do like kind

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Speaker 1: of a smaller curated fringe in the wintertime, right, and

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Speaker 1: we're talking about the Fringe Festival, performing Arts festival. Diana

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Speaker 1: runs the Atlanta Fringe for you out there who might

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Speaker 1: not be regularly nurse. That's so true, Thank you. I

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Speaker 1: can talk about fringe like everybody knows exactly what I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about at all times. But but yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: really cool. They had like I don't something like sixteen

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Speaker 1: shows or something twenty shows going on over the course

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Speaker 1: of the weekend. And I got to see a really

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Speaker 1: great solo show called The Real Black Swan from this

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Speaker 1: performer named Les Kirk and Doll, who was a really,

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Speaker 1: really fantastic performer. If you want to look him up.

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Speaker 1: He's got a podcast called a Lifetime of Hallmark where

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Speaker 1: he talks about Lifetime and Hallmark movies. Just great. He's

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Speaker 1: fantastic and every way, and the show was all about

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Speaker 1: how the first drag queen was a former slave, And

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Speaker 1: of course I was like, roll all out, what did

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Speaker 1: you say? So I had to like hop on the

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Speaker 1: internet and learn everything I could about it. Most of

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Speaker 1: it was in his show, of course, but I was like,

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Speaker 1: let me look it up, and I thought it would

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Speaker 1: make a great episode for our show. So I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go ahead and say that this was suggested by less

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Speaker 1: Kirk and Doll without his knowledge. He didn't realize he

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Speaker 1: was suggesting it, but he did. So let's hear all

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Speaker 1: about William Dorsey Swan, who was the former enslaved man

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Speaker 1: who would go on to throw some fabulous underground drag

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Speaker 1: balls and become the first gay rights activist in America. Fantastic.

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Speaker 1: Let's go hey their French, come listen. Well, Elia and

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Speaker 1: Diana got some stories to tell. There's no matchmaking, a

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Speaker 1: romantic tips. It's just about ridiculous relationships, a lover. It

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Speaker 1: might be any type of person at all, and abstract

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Speaker 1: constrom a concrete wall. But if there's a story with

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Speaker 1: the second clinch, ridiculous romans a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Before we settle down and commit to this story, let's

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Speaker 1: talk about drag with a quick fling with history. Let's

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Speaker 1: go men wearing women's clothes goes all the way back

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Speaker 1: to ancient Greece. During those times, the term female impersonator

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Speaker 1: was used, and it most often applied to mostly straight

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Speaker 1: men who were playing the parts of women on stage. Right,

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Speaker 1: because in ancient Greece and all the way up to

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Speaker 1: sixteen sixty one, women were not allowed to act professionally

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Speaker 1: on stage, so men had to play all the ladies roles.

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Speaker 1: Because you still want to have romances and you still

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Speaker 1: want to you know, you need a nurse or a

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Speaker 1: mom or whatever. But dressing up and playing that's a

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Speaker 1: man's job. That's what. So that the idea of masculinity

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Speaker 1: has changed so much, what it is and how it's expressed.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, that's partly what makes Shakespeare's cross

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Speaker 1: dressing place so funny. He's writing it at least already

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Speaker 1: knowing that the men will be dressed as women, so

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Speaker 1: then he puts the women dressed as men, and they're

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Speaker 1: all these shenanigans occur, but it's like an extra layer

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Speaker 1: of funny because you already know that cross dressing is

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Speaker 1: already happening, So like I'm Bruce, and I'm playing viola

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Speaker 1: and I got to wear this big, long wig and

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Speaker 1: I alone can't wait to meet you up maybe remember.

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Speaker 1: But then she got a dress up as I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: Ben Foglio, I'm making this up, and she's got to

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Speaker 1: wear a man's wig on top of that playing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I mean, you know, you can see why it's

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Speaker 1: extra funny two people. At that time, all I had

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Speaker 1: to say this was extremely common. It was a very

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Speaker 1: normalized thing to do, and plenty of men had very

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Speaker 1: successful careers specializing in female performance. One actor in the

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Speaker 1: early nineteen hundred's his name is Julian Eltinge, and he

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Speaker 1: was such a hit that he performed as a female

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Speaker 1: part for King William the Seventh before he abdicated, and

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Speaker 1: he was given a white bulldog as a like a

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Speaker 1: gift from the king, just like I guess, so unless

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Speaker 1: you weren't prepared to take care of a white bulldog.

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Speaker 1: But he's like, oh, I gotta like get this on

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Speaker 1: a steamship now back to America. But yeah, Julian was

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Speaker 1: so worried about people thinking that he was gay that

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Speaker 1: he would like put on this kind of super masculine

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Speaker 1: persona in his regular life to be like, I'm very

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Speaker 1: different from the lady I play on stage. And I

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Speaker 1: mean I understand it because apparently the first time he

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Speaker 1: was discovered wearing women's clothes, his father beat the ship

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Speaker 1: out of him, So I can see why he was scared.

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Speaker 1: But it really it's like until cross dressing or gender

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Speaker 1: bending became associated with being queer, which wasn't until like

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Speaker 1: the twenties and thirties, it wasn't really considered to be

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Speaker 1: a gay thing. In fact, in Brigham Morris Young, who

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Speaker 1: was the son of the second President of the Church

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Speaker 1: of Latter Day Saint Saying on stage as Madame Pettorini,

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Speaker 1: and in fact he once performed as Madame Pettorini at

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Speaker 1: the birthday party for the fifth President of the Church

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Speaker 1: of Latter Day Saints, Lorenzo Snow, which kind of suggests

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Speaker 1: they were all into it. So yeah, just men in drag,

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Speaker 1: especially white men in drag, pretty common throughout the centuries.

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Speaker 1: But we also can't talk about the history of drag

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Speaker 1: without bringing up that some people say that drag is

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Speaker 1: rooted in racist black face performance from the early nine now,

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Speaker 1: once women were allowed to get on stage, female impersonation

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Speaker 1: sharply declined like, we don't need you to do that

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Speaker 1: got women. But then minstrel and vaudeville shows came along,

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Speaker 1: and there it became a trope in comedy to put

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Speaker 1: a man in women's clothing, right, So you had white

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Speaker 1: men performing in black face playing black female tropes. The

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Speaker 1: argument being that drag for black people specifically is rooted

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Speaker 1: in racist black face performance is based on this because

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Speaker 1: it was It was basically, these men were already wearing

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Speaker 1: black face, so of course they're going to just include women,

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Speaker 1: you know, black women as part of their mocking and

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Speaker 1: their shitty comedy. And so they were also wearing drag.

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Speaker 1: But those were white men, white men wearing black face

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Speaker 1: and playing black women. Um So, in terms of like

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Speaker 1: black people themselves doing drag, I don't know, I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure I agree that that's completely accurate. I guess as

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Speaker 1: in like the idea that black men were emasculated deliberately

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Speaker 1: by being made to dress in drag, yeah, or like

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Speaker 1: that they didn't want to do it, you know that

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Speaker 1: there was no black performer out there who wanted to

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Speaker 1: do it. Was just this thing they were forced to

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Speaker 1: do to humiliate themselves. That's kind of some of the

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Speaker 1: rhetoric I've I've seen interesting, and I don't know how

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Speaker 1: you know widely that opinion is held by anybody, um,

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Speaker 1: but it was just something that really stuck in my

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Speaker 1: crop because I was like, I was like, is that true?

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Speaker 1: And I was really trying to find something to back

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Speaker 1: it up. And that's kind of the only thing I

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Speaker 1: can see is that black face performers were playing black

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Speaker 1: women in drag. And that's not to say that there

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Speaker 1: is not plenty of racism to complain about within drag

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Speaker 1: ballroom culture, because the reason that black performers struck out

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Speaker 1: on their own to do drag competitions was because all

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Speaker 1: female impersonation and drag competitions were interracial frequently, but the

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Speaker 1: judges were always white, so they never let the black

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Speaker 1: performers win anything naturally. So they were like, well, we'll

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Speaker 1: go off and make our own thing, and that ended

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Speaker 1: up being the more popular version, and the more you know,

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Speaker 1: what became the modern version of dragon dragon ballroom culture.

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Speaker 1: Figure black people took a piece of culture and said

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Speaker 1: we're going to go off and do our own version

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Speaker 1: of this, and it was way better and more fun

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Speaker 1: and everybody thousand times more cool, surprise, surprise real. And furthermore,

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Speaker 1: as dragon ballroom culture got more popular and more mainstream

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixties and seventies, white people then reco

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Speaker 1: opted kind of like kind of went back in. They

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Speaker 1: co opted the dances, the moves, the attitude to make

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Speaker 1: a bunch of money without actually supporting any of the

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Speaker 1: people that they stole from. This sounds like a unique

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Speaker 1: thing that's only happened this one time. We really lifted,

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Speaker 1: we totally bifted white people. Fortunately, never did that again.

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Speaker 1: Now if you look it up, there's plenty of discourse about.

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Speaker 1: For example, Jenny Livingston, who directed the nine film Paris

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Speaker 1: Is Burning. She had promised that the queens that she

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Speaker 1: interviewed for that film would get like a portion of

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Speaker 1: the proceeds of the film. They never got anything. Um

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Speaker 1: Madonna's song Vogue is another good example. She kind of

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Speaker 1: took the moves and everything from it, but she didn't

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Speaker 1: really do much for the community, I suppose, And so

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Speaker 1: that's kind of a good example of that kind of exploitation.

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Speaker 1: There are the two examples that come up the most.

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Speaker 1: As early as eighteen sixty seven, Harlem's Hamilton's Lodge was

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Speaker 1: holding an annual Odd Fellows Ball, and it had both

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Speaker 1: black and white performers compete for prizes for the best

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Speaker 1: female impersonator. And the terms drag and drag queen did

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Speaker 1: more than likely, as best as we can tell, originate

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Speaker 1: with William Dorsey Swann, who is our subject today now.

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Speaker 1: William was born into slavery in Maryland around eighteen fifty eight.

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Speaker 1: He was the fifth eldest of thirteen siblings. Channing Gerard Joseph,

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Speaker 1: who's the main reason that we know anything about William

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Speaker 1: Swan at all, says in his paper for the Oxford

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Speaker 1: African American Studies Center that William's mother was an enslaved

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Speaker 1: housekeeper named Mary Jane Yunker, and his father was an

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Speaker 1: enslaved wheat farmer and musician named Andrew Jackson Swan. The

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Speaker 1: Civil War was very difficult for them. They lived in Hancock, Maryland,

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Speaker 1: which was a Union held town, but it straddled the

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Speaker 1: Mason Dixon line, so there's plenty of people who lived

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Speaker 1: there who saved their loyalty for the Confederate South. What

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Speaker 1: a weird place to live, I know. Literally, you talk

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Speaker 1: about a divided nation and brother against brother and all

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Speaker 1: this stuff. But like literally, you know, Berlin, there's a

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Speaker 1: wall right through the middle year town. So soldiers would

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Speaker 1: come in and they would eat or destroy crops in

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Speaker 1: this town, making food very scarce. But the family still

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Speaker 1: celebrated Christmas and other holidays together, and Gerard Joseph writes

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Speaker 1: quote from these experiences, Swan learned the importance of unity,

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Speaker 1: self sacrifice, and the pursuit of joy in the face

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Speaker 1: of oppression, values he would carry into his adult life.

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Speaker 1: And when the war was over and the Swans had

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Speaker 1: their freedom, Swan's parents bought a farm in Hancock, Maryland,

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Speaker 1: and William wouldn't have been much more than like seven

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Speaker 1: years old at this time, but like a lot of

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Speaker 1: formerly enslaved kids, he did not go to school. Instead,

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Speaker 1: he was expected to work as soon as possible and

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Speaker 1: help contribute to the family income. True so likely he

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Speaker 1: did all kinds of like odd jobs and tasks that

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Speaker 1: a kid can make a wage with, until he was

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Speaker 1: old enough to get hired as a hotel waiter. But

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Speaker 1: then in late in eighteen eighty he felt like he

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Speaker 1: wasn't really making enough money doing that, so he took

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Speaker 1: off to Washington, d C. Coming from sleepy little Hancock. Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C. That capital of the whole country. It was

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Speaker 1: just a very exciting uh sprawled out is full of

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Speaker 1: hustle and bustle and opportunities. So William quickly found a

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Speaker 1: job as a janitor at the Spencerian Business College, and

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Speaker 1: he spent his spare time learning how to read and write.

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Speaker 1: But one of the best things about Washington, d C.

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Speaker 1: At this time was that there were a lot more

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Speaker 1: men like William. There men who had same sex attraction.

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Speaker 1: And William was a well mannered, very charming guy. He

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Speaker 1: made friends everywhere he went. It's just like a natural

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Speaker 1: party planner. He saw the need for gathering space for

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Speaker 1: all these men, so he started holding secret gatherings that

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Speaker 1: he called drags, which are Joseph says, might be a

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Speaker 1: corruption of grand rag, which was a term for a

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Speaker 1: masquerade ball. Grand drag, drag, Grand drag drag, Grand Rag.

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Speaker 1: I love it. I mean you can totally see how

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Speaker 1: it how it could have come about so much faster

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Speaker 1: than saying grand reg I know, grand rag, who's got that,

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Speaker 1: who's got the time? And of course if you say

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Speaker 1: come on down to my rag, I mean nobody's coming.

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Speaker 1: No one's come to that now asked for the term

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Speaker 1: queen that came for the annual Emancipation Day parade. This

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Speaker 1: commemorated the end of slavery. In D. C. Gerard Joseph

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Speaker 1: Wrights quote, the parades highlights were the queens of liberty.

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Speaker 1: They were crowned black women who sat atop elaborate flower

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Speaker 1: covered floats. The grace and beauty of these women, who

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Speaker 1: personified African Americans new found freedom, made a deep impression

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Speaker 1: on Swan, who took the title queen among his friends.

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Speaker 1: So even though female impersonation and costume balls were popular

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Speaker 1: all throughout history, quote, Swan is the earliest documented person

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Speaker 1: to be known as a queen of a cross dressing

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Speaker 1: ball described by US participants as a drag. Hence William

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Speaker 1: was the very first drag queen. I love this because

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Speaker 1: you can just kind of picture him, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean, meeting these dudes and being like, Oh, there's

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Speaker 1: people like me around and we all want to get together,

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Speaker 1: we want to party, we want to do stuff, and

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Speaker 1: then seeing this parade and kind of being like, I'm

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Speaker 1: a queen and just kind of saying, y'all, let's kind

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Speaker 1: of drag. I'm the queen. Come to the house of Swan.

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Speaker 1: Time to party, you know, like you just kind of

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Speaker 1: see it all come together. We can all be queens. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But of course these drags, all Williams parties, got him

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Speaker 1: in trouble with the law more than once. So we'll

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Speaker 1: take a quick break and we'll hear about all that

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Speaker 1: right afterwards. Welcome back, everybody. So William Dorsey Swan had

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Speaker 1: his first brush with the law in eighteen eighty two,

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Speaker 1: when he was twenty four years old. He was caught

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Speaker 1: stealing books from the Washington Library Company and party supplies

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Speaker 1: like silver ware and plates from his employers, who were

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Speaker 1: white educators named Henry and Sarah Spencer. They ran the

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Speaker 1: college that he worked at. William pleaded guilty to petty larceny.

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Speaker 1: He was sentenced to six months in prison for stealing

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Speaker 1: the books and one month for the silverware, but the Spencer's,

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Speaker 1: along with the sentencing judge and the assistant U S attorney,

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Speaker 1: asked Chester A. Arthur for presidential pardon for Swan. Um.

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Speaker 1: They said he sent his family everything he could spare

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Speaker 1: from his wages, and that he was quote free from vice, industrious,

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Speaker 1: refined in his habits, and associations, gentle in his disposition,

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Speaker 1: courteous in his bearing. And they also said, you know

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Speaker 1: he stole books, he was just trying to become better educated.

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Speaker 1: Why should you punish him for that? Um? And they

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Speaker 1: said that the college would be happy to provide him

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Speaker 1: lifetime employment as their janitor. Okay, so these like the

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Speaker 1: Spencers were on board with William Swan, right, but like,

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Speaker 1: if the spencer's the judge and the assistant attorney, we're

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Speaker 1: all coming to his defense. Who pressed charges in the

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Speaker 1: first place? Great question? Was it just like, oh, we

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Speaker 1: caught him, so we have to go through this regularole,

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Speaker 1: but we'll try and undo the damage. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: And it's it's actually not recorded if he ever got

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Speaker 1: the pardon, or if he served his full sentence, or

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Speaker 1: they just kind of let him out after a couple

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Speaker 1: of months writing. It's not it's not recorded anywhere. Um.

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Speaker 1: But I does speak to his character that the Spencer's right, No,

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Speaker 1: this guy is great. What are you talking about. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure they didn't know to what use the silverware was

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Speaker 1: being put perhaps, but you know they were basically like

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Speaker 1: let him be, you know what I mean? So anyway,

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Speaker 1: at some point he was out of jail and he

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Speaker 1: was throwing parties again because you know, Swan's not going

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Speaker 1: to be kept down by a little petty larceny charge.

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Speaker 1: And of course these parties are underground. Their invitation only

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Speaker 1: um Usually invitations were issued at places like the y

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Speaker 1: m c A. And often the location would be withheld

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Speaker 1: or changed at the last minute to avoid the possibility

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Speaker 1: of being rated. But so it's kind of a whisper campaign,

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Speaker 1: like a doing tonight right, you gotta come down the

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Speaker 1: fourth and Broadway, except it's not gonna be. We'll text

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Speaker 1: you with the real location five minutes before it starts.

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Speaker 1: Is where I write it down in text on a

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Speaker 1: sheet of paper, and I'm going to tie it to

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Speaker 1: a pigeon and then good luck after that because these

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Speaker 1: are not trained pigeons. Help it flies to you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So these parties included dinner and dancing, including the cake Walk.

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Speaker 1: If you're a regular listener, you might remember from our

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Speaker 1: episode about Ada and George Walker that the cake walk

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Speaker 1: was this dance that was very popular during slavery. But

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Speaker 1: it was all about style, you know. It was the

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Speaker 1: best moves, the funniest, the most ostentatious, whatever, just like

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Speaker 1: you know, come out here on the dance floor and

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Speaker 1: do something wild. Yeah, yeah, exactly, And then the winner

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Speaker 1: of this dance would get a cake as a prize.

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Speaker 1: So the moves involved in the cake walk would eventually

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Speaker 1: be the inspiration for voguing. So William and his guests,

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Speaker 1: they were dancing, they're dining, they're drinking altogether regularly at

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Speaker 1: these secret parties. And they would all wear, as the

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Speaker 1: Washington critic put it in seven quote, low neck and

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Speaker 1: short sleeve silk dresses, several of them with trains. They

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Speaker 1: all wore corsets, bustles, long hose and slippers and everything

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Speaker 1: that goes to make a female's dress complete. That's right.

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Speaker 1: They had it, all accessories and everything. They would wear

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Speaker 1: wigs like they were really going for it. They wanted

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Speaker 1: to look the best. Some of the guests included Felix

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Speaker 1: Hall and Pierce Lafayette, who were the first documented same

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Speaker 1: sex enslaved couple. William had been friends with these men

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Speaker 1: for a long time, and at this point in the

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Speaker 1: story he and Pierce were actually lovers. We're not sure

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Speaker 1: if Felix was still in the mix or not. There's

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Speaker 1: not much recorded about him, but we can tell you

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Speaker 1: a little bit about Pierce. Yes, Pierce Lafayette had been

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Speaker 1: enslaved in Georgia by none other than Alexander H. Stevens,

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Speaker 1: who was the vice President of the Confederate States of America,

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Speaker 1: so sort of close to the seat of power. I

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Speaker 1: guess um stevens legacy is basically that he gave a

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Speaker 1: big speech in eighteen sixty one, straight up saying, quote,

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Speaker 1: our new government, its foundations are laid. It's cornerstone rests

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Speaker 1: upon the great truth that the negro is not equal

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Speaker 1: to the white man, that slavery, subordination to the superior

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Speaker 1: race is his natural and normal condition. Wow. Pretty explicit.

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Speaker 1: This is where this is when I read some ship

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Speaker 1: and I'm like people who try to tell me that

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Speaker 1: it wasn't about slavery. I just don't understand. It's very

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Speaker 1: clearly about slave. They kept saying it over and over again,

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Speaker 1: secret they were very proud of it. In fact, even

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Speaker 1: though they agreed on slavery, Alexander Stevens and the Confederate

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Speaker 1: President Jefferson Davis did not get along otherwise, and in

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Speaker 1: eighteen sixty four, Stevens gave another famous speech in Milledgeville Georgia,

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Speaker 1: which I didn't know this, but that was the capital

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Speaker 1: of the confederacyne you know that, if I ever was

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Speaker 1: told it, I definitely forgot it. The Millageville I like

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Speaker 1: that the former capital of the Confederacy is now Millageville, Georgia.

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Speaker 1: I know, all right, you go to Millageville and you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is no offense to people who live in Millageville,

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Speaker 1: people from Millageville, from millage from they left. I'm sure

404
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Speaker 1: there's people still living in Villageville who were cool. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's in Millageville and he's ranting in this speech in

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Speaker 1: eighteen sixty four that it was just against white liberty

407
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Speaker 1: to conscript soldiers and how dare you draft me into

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00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: the r and so on, and he was advocating for

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Speaker 1: policies that would lead to peace with the North, but

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Speaker 1: without you know, giving up the slavery. So anyway, just

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00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,439
Speaker 1: kind of going on and on about how it's very

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Speaker 1: important for white people to feel free and have personal

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Speaker 1: freedom in the quick irony. And while he was giving

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Speaker 1: this speech, according to the New York Times, Pierce decided

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Speaker 1: to grab a little perty for himself and he quote

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Speaker 1: escaped to the Union lines and placed himself in the

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Speaker 1: service of a cavalry unit commanded by General Joseph Wheeler.

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Speaker 1: This guy's given his big speech, and Pierce just slipped out.

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Speaker 1: He's like, see you later, boss, to have a good

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Speaker 1: speech by take my ask to the union line and

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Speaker 1: be like, how can I help you? Well, Pierce escaping

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Speaker 1: apparently really chocked Alexander Stevens, who, as we said, had

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Speaker 1: given his whole big cornerstone speech all about how, as

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Speaker 1: the New York Times put it, quote, the unquestioning obedience

425
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: he expected from Pierce and his other thirty odd slaves

426
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 1: was a function of their racial deficiencies and white superiority,

427
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:47,440
Speaker 1: he insisted, had been vindicated by modern science. Just guys

428
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: literally like, well, all of the people I enslaved will

429
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: inherently be obedient because scientifically I am superior to them.

430
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: And then they ran off on him right well, and

431
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 1: he and that they liked it. That. I think he

432
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 1: also had a little bit of that where he's like,

433
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 1: not only is it it's natural for them, they prefer it.

434
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: They're safer and happier when they're enslaved by me and

435
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 1: told what to do. Unbelievable, And the Pierces like, let

436
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 1: me prove you wrong right fast, and that he's so

437
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 1: taken about what I thought you liked this. The New

438
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 1: York Times says that Pierce Leaving haunted Stevens in late

439
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,360
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty five, after the war was over and Stevens

440
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 1: was serving a five month jail sentence awaiting a possible

441
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: trial for treason against the United States. Because of the treason,

442
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: because of you know, because of the treason, he quote

443
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 1: recorded several dreams of his once trusted servants. In one

444
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: of the most vivid, he imagined the life that a

445
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 1: wayward Pierce would be living beyond his master's control. Oh lord,

446
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 1: what was that dream? Oh my god? I mean, you know,

447
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 1: they didn't give us the details. But he's starving in

448
00:25:55,200 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: the streets. He's living in a ditch somewhere. It could

449
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 1: be sife and comfortable. Well, Pierce and Stevens did cross

450
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: paths again. Stevens, who did not get a prison sentence

451
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 1: for treason. Actually he was elected to the House of

452
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: Representatives in eight seventy three, which I'm sorry. The guy

453
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 1: who was the vice President of the Confederacy later got

454
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 1: elected to the House of Representatives name a healing Well

455
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,439
Speaker 1: you know, it's just goes to show you that the

456
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 1: end of the Civil War did not make everyone suddenly

457
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 1: changed their minds. Oh no, not even a little. Well,

458
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 1: Stevens did use his influence to help get Pierce a

459
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,640
Speaker 1: civil service appointment at the Interior Department. Stevens had apparently

460
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 1: tried to train Pierce to be a trusted dependent and

461
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 1: assistant to him, and now that he was his own man.

462
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:49,199
Speaker 1: As New York Times rights quote, stevens Southern mastery was

463
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: replaced by a routine act of political patronage. This guy

464
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 1: makes no sense. This guy previously enslaved. This man told him, oh,

465
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: you like it here, genetically, I'm superior to you. When

466
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 1: he escaped, he was shocked and said, well, let me

467
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: get you a job in government. Then. I mean, it

468
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 1: must be really hard to like hold all this weird

469
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,360
Speaker 1: ship together where you're like, this person's inferior to me,

470
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 1: but they're not so inferior that he can't be a

471
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 1: trusted assistant to me. But he definitely prefers that to

472
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: like leaving living, you know, living his own life and

473
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: doing whatever he wants. But now he does want to

474
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: do whatever he wants. Will I guess he's still a

475
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: smart guy. I'll go ahead and help him get this job.

476
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: Why didn't he just ever once be like, I don't know,

477
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 1: maybe some black people are as smart as white people,

478
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: and some white people are as dumb as anybody else.

479
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: Like you know, I don't know why he can't see

480
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,360
Speaker 1: at all, But there's it's just a brain. That's what's

481
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: so frustrating about it, because clearly this whole time he thought, oh,

482
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: you are good enough to be my assistant. I just

483
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 1: don't want to pay you or treat you like a person.

484
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: But now that I have to, I guess I'll just

485
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 1: take you into the same job. But I guess I'll

486
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 1: pay you a little bit of money this time, and

487
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 1: I won't make you sleep in a barn outside, you know,

488
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: Like it's just goes to show people like Stevens who

489
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 1: knew all along that these are human beings and but

490
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 1: convince themselves they weren't. A line. Just like, your brain

491
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: don't work, you know what I mean, your brain's broken. Well,

492
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 1: it was at Pierce's elegant two story house in Hancock, Maryland,

493
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 1: that William was throwing another one of his drag balls

494
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 1: in seven and it got busted up by the cops,

495
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: six men were arrested. As Gerard Joseph Wrights quote, newspapers

496
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: described several black men wearing bewitching fascinators, silk sacks, or

497
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: kashmere dresses while on route to balls Um. They also

498
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: printed the names of the men arrested. So again very

499
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: important to point out. These men were risking everything to

500
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: go to this party. You know, they could lose their reputation,

501
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: their livelihood, their freedom, their friendships if they were discovered.

502
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 1: They were the center of moral panic and scorn. It

503
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: sounds like just a little party, but it's clearly more

504
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 1: important than that. And in the seven raid, according to Joseph,

505
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,479
Speaker 1: this was quote the first time the wider world learned

506
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: of Swan and the Motley group of messengers, Butlers, coachman,

507
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 1: and cooks. So now that the group was more widely known,

508
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: of course everyone had their little hot take, just like today,

509
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: even though we don't have you know, they didn't have Twitter,

510
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,479
Speaker 1: they still wrote some dumb ship and of course they

511
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: didn't have the terms that we have today gender, non conforming, transgender.

512
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 1: They didn't even have the term cross dressing really yet.

513
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: So one researcher named Dr Charles Hamiltons. Hughes described them

514
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: in a medical journal as quote an organization of colored

515
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: erato paths and aleccherous gang of sexual perverts. It sounds

516
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: like a great time to me, quite frankly. Again, these

517
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 1: guys are funny to me because they're just so freaked

518
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: out by skirt. You know, it's the same people who

519
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: were not even talking about women wearing pants, which of

520
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: course we know women were arrested for wearing pants even

521
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: further than men were arrested for wearing dresses. But like,

522
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: they're so upset when you wear a different type of

523
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: clothing than they think your gender should be wearing. Like

524
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: they think the whole world's falling apart and it's really

525
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: not worth all that stress so concerned about, right, And

526
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: most of it is all comes down to their this

527
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: idea in their heads that it's something sexual, as if

528
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: that's the most horrific thing that ever happened in the world,

529
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: the thing that literally has been happening since before any

530
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: other human activity happened, literally anything else, before we did

531
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: anything else that we're doing today, we were having sex

532
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: with each other. But it wasn't until during a raid

533
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: when William would really cement his place in Queer history.

534
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: It was his thirtieth birthday party, and William was wearing

535
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: quote a gorgeous dress of cream colored satin. Likely this

536
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: dress was made by William's younger brother, Daniel J. Swan,

537
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: who was a tailor, and Daniel made women's clothing for

538
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: himself and several other people in their community. At least

539
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: two of William's brothers regularly attended his parties. Anyway, this

540
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: party was going great, fabulous ball, lots of people dancing,

541
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: looking wonderful, I'm sure when suddenly the cops showed up

542
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: and they barged in. Now William Dorsey Swann, who was

543
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: not a small man, he charged right up the officers

544
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: and he fought them at the door, yes, boldly telling

545
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: one officer quote, you is no gentleman, how dare you, sir?

546
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: I love it. I wish you would take a glove off,

547
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: like smacking on the face. Right. So, you know, he's

548
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: a blazing this beautiful cream dress and he's fighting off,

549
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: you know, a whole whole brigade of cops at the door,

550
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: and he's holding them off long enough that seventeen of

551
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: his guests were able to escape. But in the process,

552
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: William's dress was torn to shreds, and he, along with

553
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: twelve others, were arrested. Gerard Joseph points out that his

554
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: choice to resist quote, rather than submit passively to his arrest,

555
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: marks one of the earliest known instances of violent resistance

556
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: in the name of gay rights. Hell, yes, amazing, Yeah,

557
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: I love that. He got so mad. You know, sometimes

558
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: anger is really really valuable emotion, you know, and when

559
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: they're like, don't treat me like this. I'm done coming

560
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: in with violence to knock you down and make you stop,

561
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: you know, living your own free life right on my

562
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: private property or someone's private property, Like what is what's

563
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: it to you? But William did not stop there. We

564
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: will tell you all about his clash with Grover Cleveland

565
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: right after these words, welcome back to everybody. So after

566
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 1: that bust up in that that kind of public airing

567
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: of their private parties made it a lot harder to

568
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: throw these drag balls, but William still held them anyway.

569
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm going to keep partying. And he had

570
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: another one get busted up in six. This time he

571
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: was convicted of keeping a disorderly house, which was a

572
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: euphemism for running a brothel, okay, because we keep a

573
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: disorderly house. I was like, now, there's no evidence whatsoever

574
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: that William Dorsey Swan ran a brothel or engaged in

575
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: sex work at all, but you know he had gay parties.

576
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 1: So people like Hughes condemned these balls as quote orgies

577
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 1: of lascivious debauchery beyond pen power of description, and the

578
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: prosecutor at the trial even said that it was just

579
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: a punishment for Swan's sexual relationships with other men and

580
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: his quote evil example in the community. So he even

581
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: straight up was like, yeah, we know it's bogus, but

582
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: we just want to get you for something. At the trial,

583
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: Swan was sentenced to ten months in jail, with the

584
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: judge lament thing that he couldn't make it ten years

585
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 1: and saying quote, I would like to send you where

586
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: you would never again see a man's face, and would

587
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: then like to rid the city of all other disreputable

588
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: persons of the same kind. Wow, geez, Like these guys,

589
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 1: they're so full throated with this ship. It's insane, and

590
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: it kind of shows you how fine it was to

591
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: be shitty to people a different because it was just

592
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: so in your face. Well, I'm like, what what anger

593
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: and hatred is so permeating you that you're given an

594
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: opportunity to unleash it and you just let it out

595
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 1: in the most horrible way you can know? Like, what

596
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: is everything okay at home? For? This is what you

597
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: care about with this level of vitriol? Like this, of

598
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,919
Speaker 1: all things going on in this is what you're concerned with. Hey,

599
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 1: what do you hate most of the world? Well, when

600
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 1: people enjoy their time to gather, it really makes me. Man,

601
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: I hate parties with music like Jesus. Maybe the judge

602
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: never got invited to a party. It was just like

603
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: if I can't party, no I can't. So the speculation station,

604
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: this judge was just a complete loser who didn't know

605
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: how to make friends. I'm satisfied with that speculation station.

606
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: I think we can just write that down in the

607
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 1: history books. Now, I didn't get invited to a lot

608
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: of parties, so no, no offense to my younger self.

609
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 1: You were a complete loser who didn't know how to

610
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: make friends. But that doesn't make you a bad person.

611
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: I didn't get invited to a lot of parties either.

612
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: That's why we throw our own. Now you're all invited.

613
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: Well after this sentencing and this incredibly rude comment by

614
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: the judge, William of course was furious. Three months into

615
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:02,760
Speaker 1: serving his sentence, he filed at for a presidential pardon, saying,

616
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 1: according to Natitia Curry, who's the archives specialist at the

617
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: National Archives in Maryland, that quote, he was a respectable

618
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: hard worker with a long record of continuous employment, and

619
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: that the sentence was severe to the crime, and that

620
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: if released, he would live a proper and law abiding life,

621
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: and that that to me just goes to show how

622
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: much work William had to do to hold his tongue

623
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: right and say like, I can't believe how I've been treated.

624
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,879
Speaker 1: But let me just explain to you why I will

625
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: continue to be a good, hard working citizen. You know,

626
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: he contributes and blah blah blah. I mean, when I'm

627
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 1: sure in his heart and mind he was screaming some

628
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,439
Speaker 1: pretty it's a lot of vitriol of his own. I've

629
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: got some things I would say, like, I don't know,

630
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 1: I would be saying some a lot of ill advised things,

631
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 1: let's say. Well, William's petition was signed by thirty of

632
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: his friends and allies, possibly some who were part of

633
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: the drag work or community. But the U S Attorney A. A.

634
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 1: Bernie scoffed at it, saying, quote, the prisoner was in

635
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 1: fact convicted of the most horrible and disgusting offense is

636
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: known to the law, an offense so disgusted that it

637
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: is unnamed. Jeus Bernie unnamed. Is we're an address party.

638
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm assuming he's talking about the actual like

639
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 1: gay sex that they're really objecting to. But like, bro

640
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: and yeah, William Swan was like, I'm looking at other

641
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: people who got probably for real, the charge of keeping

642
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,240
Speaker 1: a disorderly house, and they didn't get ten months in jails,

643
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: got much shorter sentences. So even if I was, you know,

644
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: so this guy's like, but it's worse that you did it.

645
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: It's worse that it was a bunch of men. You know.

646
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,800
Speaker 1: He's like, Hey, I've got a friend whose former enslaver

647
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 1: was the vice president of the Treasonist Confederacy and he

648
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: is now a representative for the US government. Meanwhile, I

649
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: had a party with some men in dresses and I

650
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: have to go to jail for you wish ten years. Well,

651
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: Alexander Stevens is some property and you see it's different. Well, anyway,

652
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 1: this petition made its way to the desk of the President,

653
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 1: Grover Cleveland. Grover Cleveland, now he took his time answering it,

654
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 1: perhaps read it in nonconsecutive possession. And while it was

655
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: still pending review, Williams friends started calling Bernie's office because

656
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 1: they were worried about William's health. Now, everything had been

657
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 1: fine when he got a doctor's check up when he

658
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,240
Speaker 1: entered the jail in March, but then the same doctor

659
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:54,399
Speaker 1: in July diagnosed William with heart disease that he said

660
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 1: was made worse by the prison conditions. So the friends

661
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: are like, listen, he's like his life is endangered because

662
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:02,800
Speaker 1: of this prison sentence. Is in there some way you

663
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: could commute it. But Grover Cleveland denied the pardon on

664
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: July eighteen, nine six. Naticia Curry rights that he quote

665
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,359
Speaker 1: stated in summary that the implications of his health were

666
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,359
Speaker 1: not sufficient to counter the character of his offense. So

667
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: basically was like, go ahead and die in jail. But

668
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: even though he was unsuccessful channing through our Joseph points

669
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: out that this makes swan quote the earliest recorded American

670
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 1: to take specific legal and political steps to defend the

671
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: queer communities right to gather without the threat of criminalization, suppression,

672
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 1: or police violence. Another first, So really really like one

673
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: of the first queer rights activists. He was the first

674
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 1: to have violently resist arrest and the first to try

675
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:58,280
Speaker 1: political means um too to kind of state his piece,

676
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 1: you know, in the late e Dreids, And it's so

677
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 1: interesting to look at that and think about, uh, you know,

678
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: the Stonewall riots or something like that. And also it's

679
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: really disheartening to look at this and say, well, this

680
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: was a hundred and thirty years ago, I know, and

681
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: here we are well, and like I know, I'm feeling

682
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 1: like real turned up about it myself. Because there's bills

683
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 1: currently in legislation that are trying to outlaw cross dressing,

684
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: and it's they're very anti trans. They're specifically I think

685
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: targeting trans youth or anyone adults as well, but I

686
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 1: mean essentially they're writing it like you can't wear pants,

687
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 1: men can't wear tights, you know. Like it's like insane

688
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 1: to me to to one tell me that I live

689
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 1: in a free country and that I can't wear pants, Like,

690
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: I just think that's stupid. So anyway, it's like, as

691
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: you say, we're looking at a very very early on

692
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 1: and then nineteen sixty nine and then still now still

693
00:40:53,960 --> 00:41:00,879
Speaker 1: still arguing about this, just like, can't we move on?

694
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: Speaking of click fast forward? Ng, can I not fast

695
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,760
Speaker 1: forward through this shitty fascist part please, because we already

696
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: know how this goes fastward or rewind and then just

697
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:18,399
Speaker 1: record over? Okay, that works too, I'm into it. How

698
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 1: much can this click remote do? I never? Can it

699
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 1: change reality? Can I just like implant new memories in

700
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: people's brains and make them less shitty? Please? I don't know,

701
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 1: I know him like going on and on, but it

702
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:32,919
Speaker 1: just makes me mad because it just seems like such

703
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: a simple freedom, a norm of what what you put

704
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 1: on your body, and I don't know, I just don't

705
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: care walk around an address. Well. When he got out

706
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: of prison, Swan was totally done with Washington, d C.

707
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 1: And he moved back home to Hancock and he retired

708
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 1: from the drag scene after about nine but his brother

709
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 1: Daniel continued the parties, and he continued providing costumes for

710
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 1: the drag community until his death in nineteen fifty four.

711
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 1: He dressed notable Black DC drag queens like aldn Garrison

712
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: and mother Louis Diggs Williams. Drag balls were organized as

713
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: house of Swan with mothers or more experienced performers mentoring

714
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:19,320
Speaker 1: the younger ones, and today the modern ballroom scene maintains

715
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,800
Speaker 1: this same format. You have your houses, the mothers, the queens.

716
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: Even a lot of the language remains. Gerard Joseph writes,

717
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:30,240
Speaker 1: quote striking Lee. Descriptions of balls from the nineteen thirties

718
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: are sprinkled with phrases like strike a pose, sachet, across

719
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 1: the floor, and vogue, the same terms that are heard

720
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: today on TV shows like RU Paul's Drag Race or

721
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: pose that's so fun that they didn't change? Why would

722
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,959
Speaker 1: they sat across the floor? What else do you need?

723
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 1: Is there a better way to say that? You can

724
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: hop in a time machine and go to back many

725
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 1: many decades and say vogue, and people know what you mean.

726
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 1: They will start to vogue. William Dorsey Swan died in

727
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 1: nine and this was the same year and around this

728
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,959
Speaker 1: era when the queer culture started to really be linked

729
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: intrinsically to drag and they would use slurs against queer

730
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 1: people to describe some of these events as well, like

731
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 1: Hamilton Lodge odd Fellow's Ball, which you know, we'll even

732
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 1: need to say what they called that here, but it's

733
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 1: it's the point in time at which the idea of

734
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 1: cross dressing, you know, putting on clothes of the of

735
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: a different gender, was associated with being gay or queer, yes,

736
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: having the same sex attraction, which is not, as we

737
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,760
Speaker 1: pointed out this top of the episode, was not true

738
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,839
Speaker 1: for much. Right, it was just like, oh, you specialize

739
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 1: in female performance, and not just that they associated those

740
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 1: two things together, but they did so pejoratively, right, like

741
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 1: it was a negative as opposed to being an extreme positive,

742
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 1: because no one does it as well. Come on and

743
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 1: to his death, authorities burned William Swan's home and everything

744
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 1: in it. I don't know what the point of that

745
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 1: was except to be shitty. Um. So unfortunately, there are

746
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 1: no photos of William Swans, we can't look at any

747
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 1: of his personal papers. We don't know anything about him

748
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 1: beyond uh, basically what's in this episode. Because channing through

749
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: our Joseph is also uh, I guess an ex drag queen,

750
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 1: and he was like just looking through clippings one day

751
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 1: and he found this newspaper clipping the said thirteen negroes

752
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: were arrested outside this party and they were all dressed

753
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: in women's clothing, and he was like, what's this and

754
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,879
Speaker 1: he ends up like busting this whole story open. So

755
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:47,359
Speaker 1: big ups to Channing, to our Joseph. He's also writing

756
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 1: a nonfiction book called The House of Swan, where slaves

757
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 1: become queens. Um So if when whenever that comes out,

758
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: gonna try to read that because good. Also part of

759
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 1: William Swan's like a see, this is pretty great. There's

760
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: a road in DC called Swan Street, and for a

761
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: very long time they were like, oh, it's named for

762
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 1: the slave owner whose name was Thomas Swann. But in

763
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 1: two they adopted a resolution to say no, it's named

764
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:18,320
Speaker 1: for William Dorsey Swan, the first drag queen, the first

765
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 1: LGBT rights activist, who may have been born a slave,

766
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: but damn it, he didn't let anybody tell him what

767
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 1: to do. Yeah, and I love that. They was like,

768
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 1: you know what funk that guy? Make it Make it

769
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 1: be about this guy. Yeah, thats what we want you

770
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 1: to learn about him instead. That's awesome. Isn't that a

771
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 1: crazy story? I love it. I'm very fascinating. I mean

772
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,800
Speaker 1: this is this kind of history, well exactly what's happening.

773
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 1: I learned about this as an adult, and I'm like,

774
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 1: where was this all my life? Right? You know? I

775
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: mean I've I've been seeing drag shows since probably high school, yes,

776
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 1: definitely college, and I have known a little bit about

777
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 1: the history like Stonewall and things like that, but but

778
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:00,839
Speaker 1: never no one, I mean, like said this history has

779
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 1: been kind of lost. So I'm glad that Channing Gerard

780
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:07,800
Speaker 1: Joseph is putting it together because it seems like something

781
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: kind of important to know, I know, and what a

782
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,839
Speaker 1: great character and stuff. I mean. He also points out

783
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 1: he's like, it's really I mean, it sucks that they

784
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,760
Speaker 1: got arrested and their names printed in the newspaper because

785
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 1: it made them less safe in their time and in

786
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 1: their space, and you know it, it just wasn't great.

787
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 1: On the other hand, he's like, if we didn't have that,

788
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 1: we wouldn't know they existed at all. So in a way,

789
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: very grateful for the record of them being arrested and

790
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,399
Speaker 1: having to ask for these pardons, because otherwise they would

791
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 1: be lost to history completely. We wouldn't have any idea

792
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 1: about anything about them. So and then even that. You know,

793
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: you can see someone reading the very same article and going, oh,

794
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,720
Speaker 1: there's a place I can go and party with guys

795
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 1: like me. Okay, I'm gonna try to get to the

796
00:46:55,960 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: y m c A, find out the address, get the

797
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 1: the discord or whatever. I gotta do. Very interesting. Um,

798
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,879
Speaker 1: it's just sort of that terrible double edged sword where

799
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: you're you're like, He's like, if it weren't for this,

800
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,240
Speaker 1: we wouldn't know. If they hadn't done that, it wouldn't

801
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 1: have been a shitty for them. I don't know which

802
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 1: one I'd rather get rid of. So you hear that

803
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: everyone Diana is advocating to arrest marginalized people. We can't

804
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 1: have a record at their story later. Don't say that.

805
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 1: I would never No, no, I would say the opposite. Actually, hey,

806
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: everybody out there, you know, every time you cause a

807
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 1: fuss about someone that you don't like and you want

808
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 1: to marginalize them, if you want to oppress them, you

809
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,879
Speaker 1: know you might be building up their own case against you.

810
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 1: You might be you know, history is not going to

811
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 1: look kindly on you, and they're going to see what

812
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: you were doing to people, and hopefully the story will

813
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: change later on or you could just not treat people

814
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: shitty to begin with, right, just stop giving a fuck

815
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 1: if someone is wearing a skirt or whatever. Who cares?

816
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 1: Who cares? Who care? I'm going to measure from the

817
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:07,399
Speaker 1: beginning to the end of my life, okay, and I'll

818
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 1: look back, and there's two versions. One where I really

819
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:15,360
Speaker 1: gave a ship about people in about men wearing dresses

820
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 1: or whatever, and one where I don't. And I guarantee

821
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 1: you at the end of those two lives, everything is

822
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 1: the same, except that I probably had more and better

823
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 1: friends in the one where I wasn't an ask Okay,

824
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,360
Speaker 1: for real, this, I'm like, do you need a hobby?

825
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:31,840
Speaker 1: Do we need to find you a volunteer job, like

826
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 1: cleaning up some trash somewhere so you can do something

827
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 1: useful because this energy you're putting into this dumb ship,

828
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 1: it's just such a waste, exactly, such a waste. I'm like,

829
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 1: you have so much drive, so much emotion and passion,

830
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:51,360
Speaker 1: can you not like put it somewhere? Well, you're embarrassing yourself,

831
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: you know, it's a big part of it too. Yeah, Well,

832
00:48:53,840 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 1: I'm embarrassed for you because you're dumb. Dumb, that's that

833
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 1: be can't stay silent. It has to speak up, and

834
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: you're Abe who can't stay right the bee can't stay silent. Well, anyway,

835
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 1: I want to thank less Kirk and Doll for a

836
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 1: beautiful performance of this and you do get a chance

837
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 1: to see the real black Swan. He does perform it

838
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: several different places around the country. He might do even

839
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: an online version. It's really really great show. He kind

840
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:29,320
Speaker 1: of like weaves his own life in with William Dorsey

841
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: Swan and it's really great. That's so cool and uh so,

842
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 1: I just loved it and I was really excited to

843
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:36,359
Speaker 1: be introduced to this guy. So thank you Less Kirk

844
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 1: and Doll, and I hope that you liked this story

845
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: as much as we did. You know we want to

846
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: hear from you. Our email address is ridic Romance at

847
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Speaker 1: gmail dot com. That's right, or find us online on

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Speaker 1: Twitter and Instagram. I'm at Oh great, it's Eli and

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Speaker 1: I'm Dynamite Boom. The show is at ridic Romance on

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Speaker 1: those platforms and Ridiculous Romance on TikTok. Yes, and you

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Speaker 1: are awesome. Thank you for spending time with us today.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much. You'll see soon. Bye bye.