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Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukeleman.

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Speaker 2: This is a production of the bear Grease podcast called

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Speaker 2: The bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper,

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Speaker 2: and look behind the scenes of the actual bear Grease

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Speaker 2: podcast presented by f HF Gear, American Maid, purpose built

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Speaker 2: hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged

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Speaker 2: as the place.

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Speaker 1: As we explore. Welcome to the bear Grease Podcast.

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Speaker 3: Everyone, take one great.

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Speaker 2: We have a great group of people here today. The

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Speaker 2: bear Grease The Bear Grease Render Podcast is what this

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Speaker 2: is where we talk about discuss the past, documentary style

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Speaker 2: bear Grease podcast. I was asked recently why I would

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Speaker 2: need to tell people that. I told the people that

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Speaker 2: people come in by the droves.

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Speaker 3: Yes, they do by the droves.

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Speaker 2: They come in by the droves, and so we have

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Speaker 2: to continue to tell people what they're listening to and

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Speaker 2: even more complicated now in the Beargrease Feed we have

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Speaker 2: Brent Reeves this country life podcast.

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Speaker 3: Living Large Man. That's so much fun. Yeah. Man gets

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Speaker 3: some good feedback too, it's really cool. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So you've done three Yeah, you've done three episodes. So

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Speaker 2: what were the what were the episodes about?

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Speaker 4: Well, the first one was just an introduction to me

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Speaker 4: and just kind of like who I am. They would

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Speaker 4: people would have been a little more in depth in

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Speaker 4: what they would have got just listening to me ramble

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Speaker 4: on on here. And the second one, I think it

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Speaker 4: was about man, you tell.

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Speaker 3: Me, yeah, oh yeah.

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Speaker 4: The second one was also a little bit about more

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Speaker 4: about me, about the stuff that I've told my buckets

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Speaker 4: and why maybe why I do that. And the last one,

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Speaker 4: the most recent one that's out right now, is about

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Speaker 4: turkey hunting mentors, mentors that influenced me that growing up

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Speaker 4: in some lessons I learned from those folks and been

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Speaker 4: really good, but a lot of fun good.

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Speaker 2: So a lot of you probably would have heard this

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Speaker 2: Country Life with Brent Reeves, but it's usually about twenty

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Speaker 2: minutes long. It's a monologue, it's a little bit of comedy,

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Speaker 2: a little bit of instruction, a lot of fun.

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Speaker 1: It's lighthearted, a tear every now and then, a tear

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Speaker 1: will stream down your cheek every now and then.

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Speaker 2: And the way that I have described it, and maybe

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Speaker 2: i've described it on this podcast before, if anybody had

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Speaker 2: fault with the Bear Grease podcast, they could say that

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Speaker 2: it's like a heavy listen like you have to work

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Speaker 2: at it.

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Speaker 1: I remember when we first did Bear Grease.

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Speaker 5: It's exhausting one.

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Speaker 2: Of the things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: One of my one of the guys, my dear friends

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Speaker 2: that media was like, I mean, it's like a pretty

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Speaker 2: heavy listen, like you actually have to like it's not

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Speaker 2: just easy listening music, you know, quote unquote.

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Speaker 6: No kny here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I would say this country life is easy listening.

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Speaker 2: Not that it's light.

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Speaker 3: You're here some whal and jail there maybe, but no.

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Speaker 6: I think if if Steve Vanilla is the Julia Child.

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Speaker 1: The campfire, the campfire per CBS.

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Speaker 6: Britton Reeves is the Garrison Keller oh of the Wilderness podcast,

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Speaker 6: Garrison Keller is Okay.

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Speaker 3: Keeler, Garrison Keeler. There's some pronunciation in the family. He

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Speaker 3: did a spoiler alert. He did a radio ship. He

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Speaker 3: did a radio show called.

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Speaker 1: Very Yeah.

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Speaker 6: We're all the the Lake Wobegone.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so that's that's all.

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Speaker 7: The women are strong, all the man are good looking,

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Speaker 7: and all the children.

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Speaker 3: Are above average.

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Speaker 2: Yes, well, this country life has been really great. So Brent,

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Speaker 2: thanks buddy, good job man. What did you tell the

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Speaker 2: guy that asked you what the next week's podcast was going?

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Speaker 1: To be about.

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Speaker 4: I told him it was a two parter. The first

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Speaker 4: part was none and the second part.

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Speaker 3: Was bizz.

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Speaker 4: He was he was trying to get some inside information.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 7: You can go to prison for that.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: So we don't know what the next episode is. I

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Speaker 2: know what it's about. It's gonna be good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So the guests we have today, we have Ben Lagron,

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Speaker 2: who has been here several times, longtime friend of mine. Uh,

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Speaker 2: former history teacher h yeah, current childbirth.

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Speaker 3: I mean.

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Speaker 2: That would be like if I said I'm a podcaster

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Speaker 2: and all y'all went.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I just.

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Speaker 5: Tell people I work for the internet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, balanced families, yeah great. And to

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Speaker 2: to your left is my wife, doctor mister Nukelem, And

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Speaker 2: I think.

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Speaker 6: We need to clarify and nothing I care, and not

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Speaker 6: that you ever need to call me doctor mister Nukelem again.

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Speaker 6: But there's a lot of people on the internet right

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Speaker 6: now that think that Clay.

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Speaker 5: Good Job got the PhD.

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Speaker 2: So Misty made a post the other day and what

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Speaker 2: threw it off was the picture we were at her

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Speaker 2: defense of her dissertation, and we were there with our

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Speaker 2: whole family, and I took like a just like a

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Speaker 2: selfie I was. I was the one holding the camera

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Speaker 2: out and so I'm up close in the family's back

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Speaker 2: a little bit. And that was the only picture we had,

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Speaker 2: and so Misty posted that and said I got my

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Speaker 2: I got my pH D.

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Speaker 1: I finished it, and the internet lit up.

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Speaker 2: My bone lit up people like, man, it's so great, Clay.

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Speaker 1: No idea that you were even working.

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Speaker 3: There's a prime example of how people look at that. Well,

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Speaker 3: I was.

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Speaker 4: I can't remember what Grady was in, but probably all

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Speaker 4: of them. But at least once a year a teacher

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Speaker 4: would give you a test that said, okay, follow these directions.

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Speaker 4: Start at the beginning, read them all the way through.

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Speaker 4: You probably did this, Ben, and then do what the

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Speaker 4: directions say. Well, like fifteen to twenty minutes in, I'm working.

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Speaker 4: I read about half the directions and I'm working my

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Speaker 4: behind off, but I try to look and three cours

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Speaker 4: that everybody's sitting there staring at the ceiling and looking.

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Speaker 6: At the are getting up and walking out of the room.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, golly, I got to hurry up.

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Speaker 4: And if I just read the last line was like,

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Speaker 4: do the first three problems then you can go.

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Speaker 3: But I did.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, So I always I think it was a punishment

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Speaker 6: for people who were, you know, motivated and driven like

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Speaker 6: those that I always felt like the teacher was trying

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Speaker 6: to trick us, like to just say, read all the

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Speaker 6: directions first, and then it was a mistake to do

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Speaker 6: all the work.

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Speaker 4: That's the reason I can't go to that Kia store.

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Speaker 4: I'm not reading those directions, buddy, he can get lost.

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Speaker 2: Well, we'll come back to this. I just need to

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Speaker 2: get through introductions here. I want to talk to you

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Speaker 2: about your your PhD and what it's in. But to

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Speaker 2: your left, we have coming back from He's it's been

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Speaker 2: a while since he's doctor Mali.

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Speaker 3: People. Yeah, it's good to be doctors.

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Speaker 2: Malaka like his people only let him come here like

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Speaker 2: like twice a year and you have to get on

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Speaker 2: the schedule to get him here.

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Speaker 8: But it's good to have you talk about August when

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Speaker 8: we when we end.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I'm still interested in uh a boat partner.

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Speaker 8: Hey, my boys are getting older that I would I

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Speaker 8: would consider it more than my son is like in

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Speaker 8: love with outdoors and so let's talk in November twenty

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Speaker 8: twenty six.

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Speaker 2: November, all right, that's cool, that's cool, And Josh Landbridge

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Speaker 2: spilmmaker who is now a boat owner and the captain.

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Speaker 7: That's right, Captain land Bridge of the essay game. It

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Speaker 7: is a trout fishing boat specially designed for our white

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Speaker 7: river tail waters. Twenty one foot long, forty eight inch bottom,

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Speaker 7: seventy two inch wide beam with a jet motor on

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Speaker 7: the back.

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Speaker 3: Speed.

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Speaker 1: Pretty wet brand of boat.

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Speaker 3: Is it?

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Speaker 7: It is an AAF so af was a was a

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Speaker 7: brand of boats was made in Mountain Home back in

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Speaker 7: the early two late nineties, early two thousand.

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Speaker 1: Is your cool trout boat? Come with that flat bill hat?

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Speaker 3: Nope?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you just got that hat sold separately. Josh always

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Speaker 1: has the coolest hat.

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Speaker 2: It does if you're jealous, it's true.

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Speaker 3: I gotta do something.

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Speaker 7: I wear a beard because what's under the beard is

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Speaker 7: not that great looking, and I wear a hat just

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Speaker 7: to cover as much as possible.

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Speaker 2: There you go. Well, hey, very nice Josh about taking

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Speaker 2: his boat down to the big rivers of the South

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Speaker 2: for us to go catfishing.

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Speaker 3: Sure, and he said, he said, of course. Really heck, yes,

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Speaker 3: Oh we're in Man.

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Speaker 6: Hey, someone else got a boat, and that's Bear John.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, our son got a boat.

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Speaker 6: We sometimes talk about how Bear uses my Facebook account

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Speaker 6: to purchase and sell items, and all my friends think

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Speaker 6: that my because he doesn't have and he's constantly like

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Speaker 6: selling machine parts. And it's kind of funny because the

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Speaker 6: boat I don't think has gone out into the water yet,

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Speaker 6: but it's been the focal point of a lot of

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Speaker 6: activity at the new con farm, including with your son Josh.

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Speaker 6: Almost every other night there's a group of five or

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Speaker 6: six boys here, our young men who are working on

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Speaker 6: something on that boat. And we really thought it was

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Speaker 6: going out on the water this week and we came

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Speaker 6: home and they were supposed to have taken it out

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Speaker 6: and the boat's just hanging out there.

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Speaker 3: That the battery was dead.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, there's always a reason, and I think that they

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Speaker 6: enjoy working on I mean, it was a boat that

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Speaker 6: came without a motor. Then they had to fix the

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Speaker 6: motor that he got on Facebook marketplace. Now they've got

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Speaker 6: to charge the motor. I don't know, it's kind of kind.

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Speaker 7: Of it's a trolling motor.

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Speaker 3: It's just got a trolling motor.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: It's a big a lot of a lot of boat activity. Male, Like,

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Speaker 2: how you better get in well again, it's good buddy.

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Speaker 1: By twenty.

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Speaker 2: By twenty six, you'll be You'll be maybe you bought

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Speaker 2: applestock back.

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Speaker 3: In Like.

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Speaker 1: It's like where you go the podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's like that, buddy, you better watch out because because hey,

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Speaker 2: I want to go ahead and make this public declaration.

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Speaker 2: Brent Reeves and I planned to become commercial fishermen.

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Speaker 3: Oh really really, Oh it's coming.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's happening, huh, or at least expert cat fishermen.

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Speaker 2: I am an expert catfisher I'm not saying that I'm not,

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Speaker 2: but I've kind of been delayed in my development for

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Speaker 2: the last twenty years because I've been pursuing other activities.

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Speaker 4: You mean, like there's a cat, a professional cat fisherman

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Speaker 4: trapped inside your body.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that hadn't been let out yet.

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Speaker 2: Well, he was out when I was in high school,

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Speaker 2: but he got put back in when I moved to

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Speaker 2: the mountains, kind of out of a big just when

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Speaker 2: I moved up here.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: There's no cat fishing up here is not as good,

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Speaker 2: but big plans for me and Brent to become professional

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Speaker 2: cat fishermen. And on our maiden voyage a couple of

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Speaker 2: weeks ago, we caught a giant.

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Speaker 3: Jack gantor Yeah he was huge. Yeah, that's a twenty

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Speaker 3: pound feet probably was well you said.

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Speaker 1: Said, you said twenty pounds.

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Speaker 4: Twenty maybe well, and I tell you very.

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Speaker 3: And you are a doctor, could have been closer to.

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Speaker 2: Hey, you somewhere between when you have a fishing buddy.

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Speaker 2: I think I think there's a lot of character in

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Speaker 2: what people. The world is just witnessed that I underestimated

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Speaker 2: the way to that fish. Trying to be honest.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you always say I overestimate bears about thirty percent.

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Speaker 1: Well that's the truth. But we're talking catfish catfish.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, we're big into the boat world and are

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Speaker 2: going to continue to get bigger.

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Speaker 1: We Uh, what were the other things on your on

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Speaker 1: your list?

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Speaker 6: Well, I get a lot of questions on my Instagram

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Speaker 6: about Banjo and whether or not we ever sold them, Okay, right,

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Speaker 6: and I just mule. Yeah, I felt like it'd be good

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Speaker 6: to update everyone. Much like I predicted, Clay did not

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Speaker 6: sell him, despite his strong commitments to do so. Instead,

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Speaker 6: Banjo went to boarding school.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so, so first of all, to give people a

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Speaker 2: little bit of history back, Okay, is he the best

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Speaker 2: mule I've got? I trained her she's seven years old.

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Speaker 2: I got her when she was eighteen months old. I

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Speaker 2: trained her in the six six week period, and I

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Speaker 2: trained her myself, and she's a finished, really nice mule

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Speaker 2: worth a lot. Had a guy come to my house

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Speaker 2: a few days ago and asked me what I would

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Speaker 2: sell her for, and he was a mule.

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Speaker 7: Trainer, and he said no amount of money.

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Speaker 2: I told him, I said, I said, you don't have

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Speaker 2: enough money to buy that mule. And I was being serious.

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Speaker 2: So I'm telling you that because this is in connection.

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Speaker 2: So Banjo is Izzy's full brother, and I got him

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Speaker 2: with the intent of training him myself. My life was

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Speaker 2: quite a bit different when I got Banjo in terms

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Speaker 2: of the amount of time that I could spend with

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Speaker 2: a mule, and so I kind of slow trained him. Okay,

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Speaker 2: what I did with Izzy in six weeks, I did

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Speaker 2: in like a year with him, which is not good.

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Speaker 1: It's not good practice, you know.

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Speaker 2: There was just rather than riding him five days a week,

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Speaker 2: I wrote him once every ten days, or maybe once

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Speaker 2: every ten days, I'd ride him three days in a row.

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Speaker 2: And I might go for a month without messing with him,

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Speaker 2: and then coming back and messed with him and so

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Speaker 2: last summer I.

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Speaker 1: Started riding him and got bucked off twice.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so he scared me, and it was my fault,

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Speaker 2: one hundred percent of my fault. And I really felt

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Speaker 2: like this mule had a lot of potential. He was

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Speaker 2: really level headed. He was a flashy mule. And I'm

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Speaker 2: going to tell you why. It's for sure a bona

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Speaker 2: fide like stamped and approved flashy mule.

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Speaker 1: A man that I'm gonna tell you about in a minute.

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Speaker 1: Told me this, Brent, And so I.

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Speaker 2: Asked my dad asked, all, y'all, you know, I think

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Speaker 2: I'm just gonna sell him, because I you know, pretty

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Speaker 2: much a bucking mule can be like a biting dog.

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Speaker 2: Like if your dog bites you, you don't really ask

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Speaker 2: many questions. You get rid of the dog. A mule

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Speaker 2: can be that way with certain people. I asked an

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Speaker 2: old muleman, Lloyd Holly, over here in Prairie Grove, and

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Speaker 2: I said, man, I got a mule. He's bucked me

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Speaker 2: off twice. I think it's my fault. I think he's

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Speaker 2: a good mule. And he said, get rid of that sucker,

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Speaker 2: And but I just couldn't quite do it. And so

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Speaker 2: my friend, Michael Lanier. He's he was my squirrel hunting

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Speaker 2: mentor and a good mule man. He introduced me to

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Speaker 2: a guy in another part of Arkansas that is an

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Speaker 2: Amish guy mule trainer. And in the mule world the

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Speaker 2: Amisher legendary, the Amisher legendary for being mule trainers. And

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Speaker 2: so for a for a very good price, I took

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Speaker 2: Banjo over to this guy's place. And the idea was

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Speaker 2: he would keep him for thirty days for a certain price,

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Speaker 2: and he would ride him thirty times, or you know,

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Speaker 2: train him, train him for thirty days every day, every day.

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Speaker 2: And uh. And so me and my uncle go over there,

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Speaker 2: and it was fascinating to me. We pull up to

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Speaker 2: this place and I thought maybe the guy might have

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Speaker 2: like two or three animals he was riding for people.

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Speaker 2: This is like a this is like a business man.

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Speaker 2: That he had probably twenty to twenty five horses and

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Speaker 2: mules in stalls, just one after the other. And he

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Speaker 2: and his son and his son in law and I

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Speaker 2: think another son. I think there are four of them.

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Speaker 2: That I mean rode and trained those mules and horses

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Speaker 2: every day. It's just what they wake up and do

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Speaker 2: and while we're there. These people are very nice people

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Speaker 2: then like this, not big conversationalists necessarily, but I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to sap everything i can out of this small interaction.

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Speaker 2: When I'm dropping Banjo off at training camp, you know,

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Speaker 2: and while I'm sitting there, we I tie Banjo up,

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Speaker 2: and there's all these mules and horses, and Banjo's kind

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Speaker 2: of excited and he's never been in an environment like this.

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Speaker 2: He's kind of pulling up the lead rope and amped up.

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Speaker 2: And I see two things that happen just while we're

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Speaker 2: standing there in like ten minutes that would be like

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Speaker 2: if that had happened to me, they had been a

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Speaker 2: big deal. I watched him put a I'm kind of

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Speaker 2: I'm probably boring everybody.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 2: I watched him put a horse on a treadmill. One

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Speaker 2: of the one of the boy the young guys brought

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Speaker 2: this horse over that you could tell had never been

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Speaker 2: ridden and was just bug eyed. And and they're trying

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Speaker 2: to get it up on this horse treadmill and that's there.

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Speaker 1: They're pulling on it. They're pulling on it and trying

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Speaker 1: to get it up in there.

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Speaker 2: And and I'm talking to the dad and he while

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Speaker 2: in conversation to me, just walks over like never takes

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Speaker 2: eye contact off of me, and gets right behind this

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Speaker 2: horse and puts a lariat rope on one side of

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Speaker 2: the treadmill. Runs the lariot rope around the back of

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Speaker 2: this horse that's freaking out, and he's still talking to.

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Speaker 1: Me, just like, oh yeah, we got all this stuff do.

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Speaker 2: Da runs it around the back of the horse, and

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Speaker 2: through another back back of the horse, through on a

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Speaker 2: back through the treadmill, and pulls the rope so that

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Speaker 2: the rope cinches down and pushes the horse onto the treadmill,

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Speaker 2: and he takes the tail that lariot rope and just

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Speaker 2: pop pops that horse and it just jumps on that treadmill, just.

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Speaker 1: Like it was born to do it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a beautiful trick. I mean, this horse

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Speaker 2: training is all about confidence, and I mean that horse

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Speaker 2: knew that this guy wasn't gonna take anything. And and

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Speaker 2: and then directly after that, we're still in the same conversation,

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Speaker 2: one of the young boys walks up and he's got

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Speaker 2: a little a young colt saddled up. And this colt,

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Speaker 2: you can tell it's just hardly ever had a saddle

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Speaker 2: on him, and he puts the saddle on him and

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Speaker 2: ties him up to a to a stall right there,

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Speaker 2: and the horse starts pulling against the lead, pulling against

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Speaker 2: it like he's he's he's not used to being tied up,

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Speaker 2: and he starts bucking and kicking and flips over on

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Speaker 2: the ground, feet in the air, just rolling.

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Speaker 1: On the ground. I mean, it's like chaos.

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Speaker 2: And that that boy never batted an eye and just

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Speaker 2: sat there within about two feet of that horse. The

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00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:11,880
Speaker 2: man never breaks conversation, like I'm like, and he lets

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Speaker 2: that horse do its thing. It flops for a minute,

379
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Speaker 2: stands up. The boy never I mean, I'm serious. He

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Speaker 2: didn't smile, he didn't grin, he's a blood pressure didn't

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Speaker 2: go up. And then he takes the horse off of

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Speaker 2: the off of the unties it and walks it out.

383
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Speaker 2: And he didn't ride the horse, but he just starts training.

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Speaker 2: I mean, just like every day they says, that's where

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Speaker 2: Banjo's up.

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Speaker 1: So and when I when I.

387
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Speaker 2: Was leaving, the man said to me, he said, Banjo

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Speaker 2: be on that treadmill by the time you guys leave.

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Speaker 2: I didn't see him put him on, but he was

390
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Speaker 2: just like it starts well, he's there for a month.

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Speaker 2: And I talked to him and he said he's really

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Speaker 2: happy with what Banjo's doing. He says he's not bucked,

393
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Speaker 2: he's not kicked. He said he really wants to do

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Speaker 2: what they want him to do. He thinks he's got

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Speaker 2: a lot of potential. He thinks that. He told me

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Speaker 2: he needs another thirty days, so I'm going to leave

397
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Speaker 2: him there another thirty chiropractor.

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Speaker 1: And I went through the.

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Speaker 2: Whole thing with him about, you know, well what if

400
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Speaker 2: I took him? And he said, well, how much time

401
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,120
Speaker 2: will you have to ride him? And I said, well,

402
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 2: I don't know, probably not that much. And he said,

403
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,040
Speaker 2: well you need to leave him here, and I said deal.

404
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,000
Speaker 2: And then I said, Misty, I said, what will this

405
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:29,240
Speaker 2: animal be worth when he comes back from you after

406
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,240
Speaker 2: being under saddle for sixty days? And he said, Clay,

407
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,240
Speaker 2: he said, that's a pretty flashy mule. He's got white feet.

408
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:41,720
Speaker 2: Whoa And he literally said that. He literally said that.

409
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 2: And he told me that they took a mule like

410
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:47,840
Speaker 2: ban Joe to a big sale the other day and

411
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Speaker 2: sold him for fifty five hundred dollars. And he said,

412
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Speaker 2: if I rode him for a year after I get

413
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Speaker 2: him back from them, he said it might be worth

414
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Speaker 2: ten grand.

415
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 5: Ten thousand dollars like.

416
00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:59,560
Speaker 4: That, I should have sent the bucking horse of mine.

417
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:07,000
Speaker 2: Got his own PhDs, getting the PhD for those boys.

418
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Speaker 1: Okay, that was a big story.

419
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Speaker 6: That's a good one. That's a good one. I'm glad

420
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,760
Speaker 6: to hear that. Banjo's and such. You know, I think

421
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,639
Speaker 6: I envisioned it as a little bit. I envisioned it

422
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:24,680
Speaker 6: a little differently. I feel like, yeah, it feels it

423
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,119
Speaker 6: feels a little Yeah, It's like I didn't realize Banjo

424
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,200
Speaker 6: was in this much trouble. You know that he goes

425
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Speaker 6: to a place like that. But it helps me.

426
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, saying about sending some of the kids.

427
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Speaker 6: I've got a couple of names.

428
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 9: My question is, did the treadmill have one of those

429
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 9: screens with a trainer's face on it and.

430
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Speaker 5: Talking to you know what they do?

431
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 1: You know what they do?

432
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,200
Speaker 2: The horse is running on the treadmill and it's got

433
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,720
Speaker 2: big sides on it, and they throw tarps over the mule.

434
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,600
Speaker 2: They get up on the treadmill and sit on the

435
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,360
Speaker 2: mule while it's running on the treadmill like a mule

436
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 2: that's never been written.

437
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,440
Speaker 1: Just because it can't get away, can't fight it. It

438
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:05,960
Speaker 1: can't fight it's gotten up.

439
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 6: An electric treadmill.

440
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

441
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,199
Speaker 5: Wow, yeah, it's like, what do they call that?

442
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a.

443
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,199
Speaker 2: And I mean and by the time they're done, I mean,

444
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 2: the meal like doesn't care.

445
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:19,959
Speaker 1: He's just like, well, I guess people can get on

446
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 1: my back now.

447
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:25,359
Speaker 2: So we had a a interesting two episodes of the

448
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 2: Bear Grease podcast that just came out about we called

449
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:30,199
Speaker 2: our Condown series.

450
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:33,360
Speaker 1: It was this all started.

451
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 2: Steve Varnella was actually the one who told me about

452
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,160
Speaker 2: the book The Education of Little Tree.

453
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 3: Have you ever heard of it before?

454
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:40,919
Speaker 6: You anyone?

455
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 9: Jenica read it in junior high because she's wow, yeah,

456
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:47,919
Speaker 9: that's just really your wife, just like independently.

457
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 5: It wasn't like that class. It was either junior high school.

458
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 6: She's a literature major, but she did it in high school.

459
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 5: Huh yeah, and that.

460
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 9: But then she didn't know the backstory because she's like, yeah,

461
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 9: I didn't really care for that book. But when I

462
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,719
Speaker 9: told her about the author, she's like, that's really fascinating.

463
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 3: So she read it.

464
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:05,159
Speaker 1: Had you ever heard of it?

465
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 8: Malaccho never?

466
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I had never heard of it, And I

467
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 2: think that it was on its way to becoming a

468
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,480
Speaker 2: book like Where the Red Fern Grows, kind of an

469
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 2: American classic adolescent book. And then all this stuff with

470
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 2: Asa came out and it kind of it put a

471
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 2: put a damper on that. It wasn't until two thousand

472
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 2: and seven that Oprah Winfrey took off the book off

473
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 2: her book list. Really yeah, it was on her booklist

474
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 2: for years and years. Wow, originally when it first came

475
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 2: out and was people liked it even after the New

476
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 2: York Times article came out. It was a period of

477
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,640
Speaker 2: time when people just didn't know it just just the

478
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 2: internet was hardly there in the mid nineties, It wasn't

479
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 2: It took a while for the world to kind of

480
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 2: catch up to the book, and that's when Oprah Winfrey

481
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 2: took it off. I tried to get Oprah here today.

482
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 6: She didn't respond to the Bear Grease invite.

483
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 1: Well, no, she didn't.

484
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 6: Oh, sometimes these invites come out last minute, So maybe

485
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 6: next time.

486
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 3: I'm a little.

487
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 5: Got the phone hung up.

488
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: Where to start with this one?

489
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 2: So we have already talked about the first episode, but

490
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 2: the second episode with Asa Carter, who would like to start?

491
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:33,919
Speaker 1: Who would like to start.

492
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,959
Speaker 6: Would it be too early to jump in with some

493
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 6: of the just clarifying?

494
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, go ahead, all right.

495
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 6: I don't want to be mean to Clay, but but

496
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 6: uh I actually, after after.

497
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 3: I got my head one exactly, did any.

498
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:56,120
Speaker 6: Of you find the pronunciation of the kkk? I think

499
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 6: that's where we need to start. How would you say, Brent,

500
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 6: don't say kkk, say the full? Say the full?

501
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 3: So each one of them ku klux klan?

502
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 5: Right?

503
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 6: Anyone else say it differently?

504
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 8: I asked, what are you saying the clue klueklu to

505
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,439
Speaker 8: doctor Malka Nichols klux clue kluks it is.

506
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 5: It's ku klux.

507
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 6: Close definitely ku klux klan. Yeah, it's a and once

508
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 6: once you listen to the podcast, Clay said, he said

509
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 6: after record the podcast, he said, hey, say, he basically

510
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 6: did the same thing I just did to you. And

511
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 6: he said, say say with that, how would you say kkk?

512
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 6: And I said ku klux clan and goes, oh, Josh,

513
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 6: you say it clue.

514
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 7: I don't say it that way. But I grew up

515
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 7: in my mind hearing it that way. And I think

516
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 7: I was a teenager before I realized. I think I

517
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 7: saw it in print, I was like, Oh, it's actually

518
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,120
Speaker 7: ku Klux Klan, not klu.

519
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 6: Klux klu Clux clans has like something from a doctor

520
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 6: sus but.

521
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 9: It makes sense on your tie's almost like they made

522
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,199
Speaker 9: a mistake later like.

523
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:05,120
Speaker 5: Oh, I've got so.

524
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 6: That, we've got that other. I thought this was fascinating,

525
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 6: Like on so many levels. I thought this, this, this

526
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 6: podcast was fascinating as someone, you know, I think one

527
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 6: of the most fascinating parts of it is that the

528
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 6: book is blacklisted and I haven't heard of it and

529
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 6: none of my students have read it. That that to

530
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 6: me when I just listening, yeah, listening to the to

531
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 6: the podcast, I hadn't heard of the book, So I

532
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:31,719
Speaker 6: I like to put this kind of stuff and and

533
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 6: here in like when I when I heard the different

534
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 6: excerpts from the book and what they described it would

535
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 6: be the type of book that we would love to

536
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,160
Speaker 6: read at the school. But it's it's never on any

537
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 6: of the list, Like when you when you.

538
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 5: Know you look when you google blacklisted books.

539
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,640
Speaker 6: No, well, I mean I don't google blacklisted books. That's

540
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 6: not what I'm going for. But but it's just interesting.

541
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 6: It's never on a recommended list and No, none of

542
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 6: our over the years, none of our literature teachers have

543
00:26:57,680 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 6: ever brought this up as a good book to read,

544
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 6: a good conversation to have. I think it's fascinating that

545
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 6: Jessica Reddit and they didn't have a broader conversation.

546
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 2: About Quite a few people reached out to me and

547
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 2: said they had read the book and didn't know the background.

548
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 6: And didn't know that, And to me, that's that's wild.

549
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 6: That would be a fascinating background to discuss with high

550
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 6: school kids, especially, I mean, I think or college studio.

551
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 2: But that brings up the biggest question in the whole

552
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 2: thing is it doesn't matter. Does it matter Malachi? Doesn't

553
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 2: matter that he wrote a great book and that he

554
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 2: was this guy.

555
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 8: I mean, yes and no. But I was rooting for

556
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 8: him in a sense of like to hope that he

557
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 8: changed at the end, you know, because I think just

558
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 8: looking at people would like it's hard to change when

559
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 8: you get older, right, And to see a guy potentially,

560
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 8: see a guy who was so distraught with the world

561
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 8: and so you know, racist that potentially he would change

562
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 8: and you would see you were you were thinking it

563
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 8: was you know, he changed, and so yeah, and he

564
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 8: like produced this great work that was always in him, right,

565
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 8: So from that perspective, I think I was rooting for him.

566
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 5: I mean, I think it. It doesn't take.

567
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 8: Away the fact that it's a great book, but I

568
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 8: do think you have to I do think it requires

569
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 8: a read and then a discussion right about the author

570
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 8: because I can't remember if it was in the first

571
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:33,719
Speaker 8: or second episode. You the first or second episode you

572
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 8: kind of asked like, would you read this to your kids?

573
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 3: Right?

574
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 8: And I think to me, I think I would when

575
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 8: they're older, to have that conversation about like, can people

576
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 8: who do bad stuff produce good things?

577
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 3: Right?

578
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 8: That's a I mean, that's a deep question, especially regarding race,

579
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 8: that you yourself have to be resolved in to have.

580
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 8: I think it's a great conversation to have with kids

581
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 8: who will be faced with, you know, people whose values

582
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 8: are or the way they live their life is different

583
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 8: than you. They that they might produce something that's good,

584
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 8: and do you value that or do you shun it

585
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 8: away just because or their history. I don't have the

586
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 8: right answer right now, but I mean I think it's

587
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 8: a great it's a great exercise to have, and it

588
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 8: puts you in an uncomfortable position right, I think at.

589
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 3: The end of God was crazy.

590
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, well the the hard part or not the hard part.

591
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 2: But the question then becomes to what level of scrutiny

592
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 2: do we scrutinize everything? Because it's like, I can pick

593
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 2: up this book right here, Well, pick up a book

594
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 2: and name the author.

595
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: Is that author perfect?

596
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 3: You know?

597
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: Did the author the Bible?

598
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 3: Then yes?

599
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 2: I mean so, then then that means there's a gradient

600
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 2: scale because ASA's life was so radical and.

601
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: The the.

602
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 2: The sentiment so egregious that we can say, well, for

603
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 2: sure it matters with this guy because of how egregious

604
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 2: it was. But then the guy that you know cheated

605
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 2: on his wife. You know, maybe it's not that big

606
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,719
Speaker 2: a deal. I mean, and I guess it's all And

607
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 2: that's just an example of something scandal.

608
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 6: I think what makes this a little bit different is

609
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 6: that he stated it was semi autobiographical. He lied love, Yeah,

610
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 6: he just I mean, but it's it is an important

611
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 6: one when you I think, it wouldn't matter to me

612
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 6: if he just said this was a nonfiction book, all right,

613
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 6: this is a fiction book. Like if he just said

614
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 6: this is the novel that kind of I made up,

615
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:44,959
Speaker 6: then that wouldn't be very important. But the fact that

616
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 6: he said this was like his life story, that makes

617
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,719
Speaker 6: it that that is puzzling, and it makes you have

618
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 6: to kind of jump to Okay, this guy was crazy. Yeah,

619
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 6: And maybe that doesn't matter, maybe that doesn't make the

620
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 6: book less good. But poor guy, he was really great.

621
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

622
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the value of it starts at page

623
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 4: one and ends at the last page in that book,

624
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 4: and you don't take it any further than that.

625
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: He So you're a big death of the author guy.

626
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,959
Speaker 4: If the end of that is the end of his

627
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 4: I'm trying to think out of how to phrase it.

628
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 4: His participation in that to me stopped when at the

629
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 4: last period, in the last page of that book. And

630
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 4: I if I I owe that guy, if I read

631
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 4: that book and enjoy it, thank you for writing a book.

632
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 4: Nothing else matters to me as far as he's concerned,

633
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 4: long as he's not affected me or my friends or

634
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 4: my family or something like that, which brings up another question.

635
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 4: Does that, you know, if that book is successful like

636
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 4: it was, does that adversely affect me or my family

637
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 4: or my friends. You know, I don't. It'd be hard

638
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 4: to correlate all that together. But as far as him

639
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 4: as a human being, Would I sit down have a

640
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 4: cup of coffee with him?

641
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 3: Now?

642
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 4: Would Could I read his book and enjoy it and

643
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 4: end it with just that participation in that piece of

644
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 4: his life that he wrote down on a piece of paper. Yeah,

645
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 4: I can enjoy that, But the rest of it is

646
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 4: immaterial to me the way I.

647
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 3: Look at it.

648
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't want to be real chatty Kathy here

649
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 6: at the same time, though, does it? You know he

650
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,959
Speaker 6: his life's message was a massive injustice to a lot

651
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 6: of people.

652
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 3: Well was for sure?

653
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Carter was.

654
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 6: We're just kind of acknowledging this guy was like two

655
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 6: different people, and.

656
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 3: I think he was skitzo.

657
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's what at the end, I thought that of

658
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 6: the theories, that was probably the best. This guy is crazy,

659
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 6: he's not, he's not well because it.

660
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: Wasn't just it wasn't.

661
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 8: I was just gonna say, it wasn't just a pen name, right,

662
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 8: I think that's what I can Yeah, it wasn't just

663
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 8: a pen name. Like he picked up and moved as life. Yeah,

664
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 8: like talk to Barbara Walters. I mean that's like some

665
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 8: magician type of stuff, you know, like to live that

666
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 8: type of life. You know, you gotta be drinking something

667
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 8: in your tea.

668
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 2: You know, there's no I tried to get the audio

669
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 2: from his interview with Barbara Walters and it couldn't find it.

670
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: It doesn't exist.

671
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 6: She I didn't hear you say this on the recording,

672
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 6: But didn't she say?

673
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 3: That was.

674
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: So so Dan T.

675
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 2: Carter, he he told me that back in the seventies,

676
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 2: the Today Show was so it was one of the

677
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 2: best shows, the most watched shows in America.

678
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: But they were still using.

679
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 2: Tape tape and literally would tape over the stuff they did,

680
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 2: oh a week before, just like saving tape, you know,

681
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 2: saving money, And so there were no there's no archival

682
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:56,959
Speaker 2: footage of that interview, but they said that that he

683
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 2: he wore his cowboy hat and he like had his

684
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 2: head down all the time, and he was kind of

685
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 2: like when you look back at it now, an expert

686
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 2: would be like, yeah, that guy's probably lying, But at

687
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 2: the time, it just wasn't It wasn't seen.

688
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 6: Didn't she say? She regretted that.

689
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 2: I want to say that She said that was one

690
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 2: of the bigger regrets of her her professional career, because

691
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 2: perhaps she wasn't ever duped like that. Before everybody she

692
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 2: sat down with. You know, they may have lied to her,

693
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 2: but at least they were who they said they were.

694
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 2: And so, yeah, the guy was That's what was interesting

695
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 2: to me, just for no good reason. But the guy

696
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 2: was was just he was super smart and was an

697
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 2: actor and could tie stories together. I mean, he was

698
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 2: kind of and I don't want to use the word

699
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 2: brilliant because it sounds like you're like you liked the guy,

700
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 2: but he was.

701
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 3: He was cunning and crafty.

702
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, goly he was he ever, Ben, what were you

703
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: gonna say?

704
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 9: Well, a couple of times. The first almost like a technicality.

705
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 9: And this is kind of hinted in the podcast that

706
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 9: him having some apparently subconscious things that he respected about

707
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 9: Cherokee culture stuff like that, that's not as like contradictory

708
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 9: to his like worldview as people might think. Because he

709
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,240
Speaker 9: didn't write a book about a slave narrative and pretend

710
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 9: that he was African American, like I don't think he was.

711
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,359
Speaker 9: He could consciously do that, consciously do that, but says

712
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 9: it's a technicality. It's like sometimes people view like racists

713
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 9: as just like this black or white thing, and and

714
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 9: and actually I think that's actually one of the fact

715
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 9: that people are more complex than that, to me is

716
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 9: actually the danger and how you might how you interact

717
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 9: with people that do have some pretty messed up worldview.

718
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,240
Speaker 9: For instance, like people that I look at in my

719
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 9: my childhood that I kind of respected and knew, and

720
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 9: I look back, like, it's not like I just reject

721
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,919
Speaker 9: wholesale everything about their their character, because but I look

722
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 9: back and I see how messed up their views were

723
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 9: on race, and I learned from that. And my point

724
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:21,320
Speaker 9: is like people are complex, and you can, I think

725
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 9: you can, in one hand like condemn something, on the

726
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 9: other hand be like.

727
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 5: Wow, that's interesting.

728
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 9: But I think after studying history for so many years,

729
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 9: I still baffled why we we as in like society

730
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 9: want to like venerate people or just like condemn every

731
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 9: part of them. Or why why do people get so

732
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 9: infatuated with talented writers and musicians, Like who said anybody

733
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 9: has to like this guy just because he's a good writer,

734
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 9: because obviously's a good writer. Same thing with musicians, Like

735
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 9: I'll start watching a documentary about some musician that I

736
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,280
Speaker 9: like their music, and I'm halfway into I'm.

737
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 5: Like, I kind of can't stand this.

738
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 9: I would not hang out with them, Like I like

739
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 9: their music, but I don't like anything about them as

740
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 9: a person.

741
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 5: But it's just weird in.

742
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 9: Us how we try to put people on a pedestal

743
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 9: just because they're talented. And you see that in history,

744
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,839
Speaker 9: starting with George Washington, who was as human as all

745
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 9: of us. He's got like this godlike status in our

746
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 9: culture because people don't really know about his entire life.

747
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 9: And when you study history, there's so much to take in.

748
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 9: You kind of are taught to categorize things pretty quickly

749
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 9: so you can just understand it quicker. And it's like,

750
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 9: these are the social causes, these are the political causes,

751
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 9: these are the economic causes, and these were the good guys.

752
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 9: These were the bad guys, and that's just who they were.

753
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 9: But when you really dive into history, read biographies and stuff,

754
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 9: you learn how complex people are. And sometimes you find

755
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 9: people are actually pretty crazy at the end of it,

756
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 9: and that might have been part of the driver of

757
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 9: their just like massive output of productivity or whatever they were,

758
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 9: and whether it's politics or art or whatever.

759
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 5: But people are complex.

760
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 3: M that's good.

761
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 2: I think the what you said about musicians like if

762
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 2: We and Malaca, I'm not arguing with you. I'm the

763
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 2: same way. I think I agree with what you said

764
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 2: at the beginning, Like it does matter what the author

765
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 2: believed and did with his life.

766
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: It's important, it's not irrelevant.

767
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 2: But at the same time, yeah, how many musicians do

768
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 2: I like their music but would really be deeply, deeply

769
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 2: opposed to the values and lifestyle that they live, Like, yeah,

770
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 2: a lot.

771
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: But I still would listen to their music and enjoy it.

772
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 6: And I think about that. You could apply it to

773
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 6: like politics. There's a lot of politicians whose lifestyles do

774
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 6: not match their voting patterns, and so a lot of

775
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 6: people would vote for them because they like the way

776
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 6: they vote, but then they find out how they live

777
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 6: and it's like, oh, yuh, that's different. Actually the opposite

778
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 6: of what you say, and which one matters how they've vote,

779
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:02,399
Speaker 6: you know, and how much that aligns to how you

780
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 6: would want to be represented in your government, in a

781
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 6: representative government for the exactly These are complex, difficult questions Langbridge.

782
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 7: You know, it's interesting I actually had some of the

783
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 7: same thoughts about about musicians and celebrities. I mean, I

784
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 7: struggle sometimes, like with professional athletes, It's like that are venerated.

785
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, but really they're just absolutely dirt balls.

786
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 7: You know, and because they have a skill, and at

787
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 7: the same time, you can enjoy watching them play or

788
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:35,839
Speaker 7: you can enjoy listening to their music.

789
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 2: When there's a sports game on, I only watch the

790
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 2: good guys. Anyone that doesn't have my exact value system.

791
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 2: I blank them out in my mind as they play football.

792
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 7: But I think I would lean more towards the death

793
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 7: of the author philosophy that I think that that you

794
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 7: you know, I think you can. I think it also

795
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 7: depends on your your worldview and perspective, because I think

796
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 7: there there is there are people who are very critical

797
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 7: of everything that they see and hear, and you know,

798
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 7: I remember when I was a kid, we boycotted everything

799
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 7: because you know, and until I got older and realized, like,

800
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 7: there there is stuff in the world that that is

801
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 7: not going to align with my values. However, you know,

802
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 7: Scripture talks about being in the world and not of

803
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 7: the world, and so we have the opportunity to maneuver

804
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 7: those things and still maintain the standards that we have.

805
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 7: I can read this book and not violate my conscience,

806
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 7: or I can and enjoy it. However, do I agree

807
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 7: with with Asa Carter. Absolutely not, you know what I mean.

808
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 7: The man was a kook. But I think I think

809
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:47,879
Speaker 7: if you're if your perspective is right, you can read

810
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 7: that book and you can identify things inside of it

811
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 7: that are a beautiful because I think you know the

812
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 7: pros that you read in in the in the I've

813
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 7: never read the book, but that you read the excerpts

814
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 7: of on the podcas Has it was so beautifully written

815
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 7: and then paints a picture in your mind. But at

816
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 7: the same time, you know, we can we can also,

817
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 7: you know, I think we have the ability to, you know,

818
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 7: if you have a critical mind and ability to read

819
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 7: that stuff. You know, can someone who has such a

820
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 7: strong philosophy about certain things right in right like that

821
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 7: and not they're not be subversive or or seditious things

822
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 7: going on behind there even consciously or subconsciously that they

823
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 7: put in there.

824
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 5: Who knows.

825
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 7: But I do appreciate it, and I think you can

826
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:36,800
Speaker 7: read it, you know what I mean. I think probably

827
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 7: thousands of people when Oprah put it on our list,

828
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 7: I'm sure thousands and thousands of people read it and

829
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 7: liked it and you know, didn't become racist.

830
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 3: This guy must be a right.

831
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 6: I think I'm one of those people that, like when

832
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 6: you're watching a movie and if it, if it really

833
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 6: impacts me, I go and research like the people who

834
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 6: wrote it and who made it. And so, first of all,

835
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:58,359
Speaker 6: I think I would not have been due just had

836
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 6: I known this book existed. I think I would researched

837
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:06,760
Speaker 6: this guy. I think I was. It's true, Yeah, it's true,

838
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 6: But I think, you know, for me, like I do

839
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 6: get really connected to who and I don't abstain from

840
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 6: watching them in sports, but I actually care a lot

841
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,879
Speaker 6: about that the people behind the behind all these things,

842
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 6: and that matters a whole lot to me, mainly just

843
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 6: because I'm I'm curious, you know, and I'm interested in

844
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 6: the person behind such a brilliant story. So I think

845
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 6: for someone like me, this is like what this guy

846
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,760
Speaker 6: just totally lied and is completely different than.

847
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 4: I meant you beyond. Would it affected you so much

848
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 4: that you wouldn't have enjoyed the story?

849
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 6: Well, I don't know that if I wouldn't have enjoyed

850
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 6: the story, but it certainly changes when you when you

851
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 6: read it. I thought it was really interesting when he

852
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 6: actually interviewed the Native American people and they say, well,

853
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 6: this is accurate, but this part over here is yeah,

854
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 6: we would have never And it was like, okay, so

855
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 6: he's kind of just writing like a Southern guy who

856
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 6: has observe.

857
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:03,959
Speaker 2: I kind of thought that was a little nitpicky, though,

858
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 2: really well, kind of like Steve said, he said, nobody

859
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 2: had problems with this book at all until we found

860
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 2: out who the author was. You know, Steve said, go

861
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 2: back to the seventies and see if any anybody was

862
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:19,919
Speaker 2: saying that it was bad.

863
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 6: Did they have any Native Americans interviewed in this episode

864
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 6: about what they thought about it?

865
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 2: That I don't really know, but I know that the

866
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 2: world and this wasn't coming from the Native American community.

867
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 2: Perhaps they had a response and I'm unaware of it,

868
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 2: but you know, the world was venerating him as one

869
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 2: of the greatest Native American writers in history.

870
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 1: Pretty crazy, and so I mean, you know they weren't.

871
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 2: I don't and I don't know have they ever heard

872
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 2: of takumsaaaa. I had a guy stop me the other

873
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 2: day and say, Clay's thought, Oh.

874
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 3: What do you got?

875
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 2: This is a this is a technical media question. What

876
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 2: do you guys think about me reading excerpts from books?

877
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 1: Like when you're listening to that.

878
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 9: Like do you go, oh gosh, I feel more connected

879
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 9: to it, Okay, And I can say i've kind of

880
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 9: I can say I haven't read the book, but I

881
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 9: listen to an audio book because I.

882
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: Did a little snippet just on yeah with just Meet.

883
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 5: People say you ever read that, Like, yeah, audiobook?

884
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 3: You know.

885
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 2: Sometimes I just you know, when I'm making these podcasts,

886
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to find a way to tell the story.

887
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 2: And part of this was convincing people who hadn't read

888
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 2: the book that it was a good book. I mean,

889
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 2: that was what I was trying to do, because I

890
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 2: believed it was a good book.

891
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 9: What I found interesting was it was the whole thing

892
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 9: about making money. It was almost like, I mean, he

893
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 9: obviously never admitted that he thought he was wrong, but

894
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 9: he eventually kind of gave up his almost like lost

895
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 9: the lost this war that I've devoted my life to.

896
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 5: I'm just gonna go make some money.

897
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 9: I didn't find that very shocking, Like it's like that

898
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 9: kind of makes sense. I think the most shocking thing

899
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,720
Speaker 9: is the extent he went to to sell a book

900
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:17,879
Speaker 9: to like literally con America, and it was it's It's

901
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:23,240
Speaker 9: pretty twisted, but also kind of hilarious. When Elon Musk

902
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 9: took over Twitter and they're like this, everybody thought he

903
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 9: was going to fire everybody. And these two random young

904
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 9: guys got boxes and they started walking down the street

905
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 9: near the office and fold all these journalists and just

906
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 9: saying they got fired. They started tweeting and writing about

907
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 9: all these firings, and they were just totally made it up.

908
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 9: Something's entertaining about somebody that cons others like that, you know.

909
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 5: What I have to say, And.

910
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 7: Maybe this is a character flaw, but I assumed that

911
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 7: that if I pick up a book and it says

912
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 7: based on a true story or something like that, that's

913
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 7: a lie. That if I see a movie is based

914
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 7: on a true story, they they made that crap up, you.

915
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: Know, based on Oh man, you should see.

916
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 6: I mean, when I went to a movie based on

917
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 6: a true story, I basically have checking everything.

918
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 7: I mean, who's to say that an autobiography is completely true?

919
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 3: I mean, it's my story.

920
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:22,879
Speaker 2: I tell like, I won't exactly that's this country life,

921
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 2: New York City.

922
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 6: You know, something this made me think about is mine.

923
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:30,839
Speaker 6: And there's been several stories like this have come out

924
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,320
Speaker 6: in the news in the last like five or ten years.

925
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 6: But at our daughter's school, there was a woman who

926
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 6: was like named to all these Latin Latin like community

927
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,359
Speaker 6: service leadership positions and really worked for the on the

928
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 6: for the welfare of Latino people. And she of course

929
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 6: claimed to have been raised in a Latin community in

930
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,280
Speaker 6: like you know, some some urban area. And it turned

931
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 6: out she is not at all Latin. There's none of

932
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 6: that that and she got fund out, she got fired,

933
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:03,799
Speaker 6: and they wrote a letter, an apology letter to all

934
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 6: the students and to me as a parent, I got

935
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 6: this letter. You know, you're disturbed by this, and it

936
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 6: was like, this woman's been working for decades inside of

937
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 6: this this community under and some I don't even know

938
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,840
Speaker 6: how they they figured it out, but it's kind of

939
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 6: the same, the same thing, except for in her case

940
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 6: she was actually she's doing good for that community.

941
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 3: Wow.

942
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,359
Speaker 6: And it's it's like that's pretty messed up though, I mean,

943
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 6: living living a total lie and iron.

944
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,399
Speaker 3: Azed Cody, what's the het?

945
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 4: Remember that guy the Native American and Eric quotes they're

946
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:40,320
Speaker 4: standing on the side of the road and somebody drives

947
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 4: behind and throws with McDonald's sack out in his feet,

948
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 4: and he's dressed in full Native American regalia, and he

949
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 4: turns and looks towards the Cameron.

950
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 3: Was from sicily.

951
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 6: Being rocked right now.

952
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 2: I told you, are you going to start lettering now?

953
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 2: He yes, because you've been fooled. Hey, what did you

954
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 2: guys think about the Were you surprised Malaca?

955
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 1: Let me ask you.

956
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 2: Were you surprised when you heard the innered the inner

957
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:21,279
Speaker 2: workings of how the white supremacists were saying that the

958
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 2: civil rights movement was the communists being fed by the Jews?

959
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:27,439
Speaker 1: Did you know that really?

960
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 3: Yeah? That in school? Okay, Yeah.

961
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:32,879
Speaker 8: I think it goes back to what Ben said. It's

962
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:37,320
Speaker 8: I mean, this stuff is complex, you know the issues

963
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 8: of race and south. It's really complex. And there's no

964
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:44,359
Speaker 8: there's no black and white. I think human beings wanted

965
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 8: to be black and white, yes or no, and it's

966
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 8: it's just not It's just not so. And I think

967
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:54,439
Speaker 8: also one thing that I was just thinking about Aesa

968
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 8: and just his life. I think everybody comes to a

969
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 8: position of like making a choice. I think he probably

970
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 8: had a choice of of like wanting things deeper, or

971
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 8: like turning his life around or trying to produce books

972
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 8: and just like letting the KKK life go. And I

973
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 8: think he just made a choice to not do it.

974
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:17,800
Speaker 8: I think towards the end of his life he probably

975
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,280
Speaker 8: looked back, he was got to mix in he's crazy

976
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 8: and stuff like that. Looked back and thought, man, like

977
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 8: I wasted my time, right, did this radio show and

978
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 8: got kicked out right. I supported, you know, Governor Wallace,

979
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 8: and then ran against him and lost. Right, Like his

980
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 8: life is just a bunch of trying and trying and

981
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:40,800
Speaker 8: trying and failing. And then he just thought, man, maybe

982
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,280
Speaker 8: I should put my life towards something and he produced

983
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 8: this like great book. So, I don't know, very interesting.

984
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 10: Man.

985
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 4: It was cool that he told that story. Somebody it

986
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 4: was in the navy with him. He said they'd heard

987
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:54,799
Speaker 4: that story when he was young. Yeah, before he did

988
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 4: all that other shit.

989
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 1: He was eighteen years old. Yeah, he told that story.

990
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 3: He told so that's been an him for a while.

991
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 4: And it goes back to that thing I said on

992
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 4: the last render, I think people are inherently good, because

993
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 4: that's the only place a story like that comes from.

994
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 3: And he just chose to be terrible person.

995
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm.

996
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 3: I think that was I think everybody.

997
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 4: I mean obviously that I say, obviously I'm not a

998
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 4: doctor like most of the folks in here.

999
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 10: Yeah, captain, captain, But I mean.

1000
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 4: It would seem that the guy had some kind of

1001
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 4: mental problems, but outside of that, he could have been

1002
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:46,239
Speaker 4: a good guy, because that that story has got to

1003
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:47,280
Speaker 4: come from a good place.

1004
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 6: To me, I've got a theory on gifting and and

1005
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 6: and it's based on a lot of a lot of

1006
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 6: different things. But I feel like sometimes people who are

1007
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 6: like extremely good at stuff, and you know, they talked

1008
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 6: about every single good speech are all the It was

1009
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 6: clear he was an excellent writer. He was excellent. And

1010
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 6: sometimes I feel like there's you're kind of teetering with

1011
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 6: like this balance in life between normal and gifting, and

1012
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 6: like the more the more gifted you are, and the

1013
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 6: more you go into that space and the more you

1014
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 6: perfect your craft, the less stable you become as a

1015
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:29,839
Speaker 6: human being. That's kind of a pessimistic worldview, but that's

1016
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:31,760
Speaker 6: been my experience.

1017
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 3: What you're saying.

1018
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 8: I mean, it made me think about as Carter made

1019
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:40,400
Speaker 8: me think about Bill Gates. And there's a documentary documentary

1020
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 8: about Bill Gates and his wife is talking about Bill

1021
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:48,879
Speaker 8: and how Bill is extremely smart, extremely smart, but Bill

1022
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,279
Speaker 8: is not connected to his emotions right, connected to how

1023
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 8: he feels. And I think it kind of connects with

1024
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 8: what Misty says, like you can put so much energy

1025
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 8: in perfecting your craft and do these things with gifting,

1026
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 8: that you lose a sense of humanity, right, you lose

1027
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:10,360
Speaker 8: a sense of connection and normalcy and enjoyment and you know,

1028
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 8: valuing people that you kind of you get warped. And

1029
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:17,279
Speaker 8: I think you mix that with like you know, the

1030
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 8: deep racist, the deep. There was a there was a

1031
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 8: story in there where he talked about he got removed

1032
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,319
Speaker 8: or he felled out of a class, and like that

1033
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 8: immediately he got resentful. So that like you mix all

1034
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 8: of that, like the system.

1035
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 6: Being against you and you feel like this isn't fair

1036
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 6: and it kind of twisted.

1037
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:39,759
Speaker 3: You and it's not be my fault. Yeah, yeah, I

1038
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 3: gotta blame somebody looking for an enemy.

1039
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 6: I think working with with kids a lot, you see

1040
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 6: parents come in when kids are really young and they

1041
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 6: want you to perceive their kids as gifted and really unique,

1042
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 6: and it's like, I think you should really be shooting

1043
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:55,840
Speaker 6: for average here. There's a lot of value and having

1044
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 6: an average kid. There's a lot of I'm joking, but

1045
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:01,320
Speaker 6: I'm also dead.

1046
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 2: Seriously, and it's it's something that we've done with our kids.

1047
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 2: I think is that we've gifting is being gifted at something.

1048
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 2: It doesn't it Almos's almost like it doesn't come by

1049
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:16,720
Speaker 2: merit in a way. And so there's things that you

1050
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 2: we we have honored character over gifting with our kids.

1051
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:23,400
Speaker 2: That's the most simple way to say it. Because gifting

1052
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:26,319
Speaker 2: will take care of itself. There's certain things that your

1053
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 2: kids you are going to be able to do that

1054
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 2: nobody else can do that you.

1055
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:30,319
Speaker 1: Didn't work for.

1056
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 2: You just kind of got it. Yeah, you know, like

1057
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 2: Brent and his beard and overalls and.

1058
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 1: By the way, so you just see what I'm saying.

1059
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, and if you put too much of an emphasis

1060
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 6: on that, and if.

1061
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 1: You go emphasis on the gifting, it will kind of

1062
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:47,760
Speaker 1: pollute them.

1063
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I think that there's a lot to be

1064
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 6: said for restraint just saying hey, I can go to

1065
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 6: like real extreme places with this thing. And you you

1066
00:53:57,440 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 6: see this a lot with artists with and they.

1067
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 2: Get weird artist musicians, Yeah, they just say it's like.

1068
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 6: But you you you see this a lot with artists

1069
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 6: where they just go down these extreme tunnels, they take

1070
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:13,279
Speaker 6: on different identities, they become different people, and it's like,

1071
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 6: I bet it'd be good for the world if you

1072
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 6: were just like pretty darn good at your art and

1073
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 6: a really good person.

1074
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 2: Let me ask you, guys, something, do you I had

1075
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:25,360
Speaker 2: a lot of people comment to me that they they

1076
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 2: were maybe not surprised, but they that's what they said,

1077
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 2: that we could tackle this kind of issue on this platform.

1078
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:38,000
Speaker 2: What do y'all think? You are just kind of like, well,

1079
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 2: of course we're going to talk about this. What do

1080
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:40,959
Speaker 2: you think, Malca?

1081
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:45,719
Speaker 8: I mean, I wouldn't say surprised. I think it needs

1082
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 8: to be like when I when I think about like

1083
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 8: the Bear Grease podcast, I think about like taking you

1084
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:54,359
Speaker 8: to the wild, and it's uncomfortable, right, and I think

1085
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 8: it's okay to navigate and the things that are uncomfortable,

1086
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,319
Speaker 8: And I just think race in the South and you know,

1087
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 8: hunting and Indians and you know, everything that's included. It's uncomfortable.

1088
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,839
Speaker 8: It's not as black and white. Yeah, and you know

1089
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 8: you navigated with with wisdom, but I think you do

1090
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:15,319
Speaker 8: got to talk about it.

1091
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's all just really interesting to me. I had,

1092
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:20,760
Speaker 2: I had one negative review.

1093
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 3: One star.

1094
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, he said, I love the podcast, I love

1095
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 2: all you guys, but this has nothing to do with hunting.

1096
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 2: This is an outdoor podcast. This is a waste of time.

1097
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:31,400
Speaker 2: He just Lambassis like saying like, why are you even

1098
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 2: talking about it? And I don't take much. I mean,

1099
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:37,760
Speaker 2: this is not we never said it was a hunting podcast.

1100
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:42,320
Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, if I'm interested in it and there's

1101
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:46,800
Speaker 2: any connection to the natural world and this book, the

1102
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:50,800
Speaker 2: Education of Little Tree, was the gateway into into this story,

1103
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:56,879
Speaker 2: you know, and I appreciate that that we can talk

1104
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 2: about this stuff. Yeah, not be not be afraid of it,

1105
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 2: saying that, let's close on this one.

1106
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 1: What do you think about me reading the Unibar Manifesto.

1107
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 6: We talk about this, but that feels a little bit.

1108
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:12,839
Speaker 1: Like, No.

1109
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 2: Brunella is the one who who had to read the

1110
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 2: Unibarber Manifesto in the same class that he read The

1111
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 2: Education of Little Tree. And so the Unibomber Manifesto was

1112
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 2: in the New York Times and the Washington Post in

1113
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five. So it's not like it's not like

1114
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:36,799
Speaker 2: this is bank contraband material. This literally was published in

1115
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 2: these places, and it didn't take me long to find

1116
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:44,759
Speaker 2: that section. And I wasn't looking for that section. I

1117
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 2: was just looking for a section that I could pull

1118
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 2: out that would have some relevance and a whole lot

1119
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 2: of what he said, a whole lot of humans in

1120
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 2: America would agree with.

1121
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,320
Speaker 4: Well, that's how all those kind of people get followers, exactly,

1122
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 4: looking for somebody there, looking to identify with somebody, and

1123
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:06,839
Speaker 4: if they're an orator, like to comfort or whatever high

1124
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:09,879
Speaker 4: we can. Yeah, however we decided to say it. That's

1125
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 4: how he got this folks following him. He was able

1126
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 4: to get his message out. Oh, identify with that guy.

1127
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:18,280
Speaker 4: I'm going to start following him. Let's go do some

1128
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 4: stuff together. Burn a barn.

1129
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 3: Uh.

1130
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 4: Well, okay, I guess it's all right. And then it

1131
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 4: just magnifies them there. But that's how they get those

1132
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 4: folks to follow them.

1133
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:31,960
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's almost like extremism is about the application and

1134
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 9: the solution to the problem.

1135
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 5: But they start out talking about the problem.

1136
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 9: That a lot of people might agree with, and then

1137
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 9: they just get more and more extreme.

1138
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it goes back to that thing.

1139
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 4: Everybody always, regardless of what the issue is, somebody all

1140
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 4: do something about that. Well, finally some guy says, I'll

1141
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:54,080
Speaker 4: tell you what, I'll do something about it if you'll

1142
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 4: go with me. Well, I don't know, joshould be like,

1143
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 4: I gotta ask my wife safe.

1144
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 1: Well it was, uh.

1145
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 2: It My point in reading that was to show I

1146
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 2: was qualifying what Steve said when he said he would

1147
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 2: have believed that if the Unibomber had wrote The Education

1148
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 2: of Little Tree.

1149
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 1: I was qualifying that statement.

1150
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 2: But the point that I the thing that I also

1151
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 2: saw was that a lot of times being crazy comes

1152
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 2: with a lot of can come with some reasonable ideas,

1153
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 2: can come you know it can it could come cloaked

1154
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 2: in something that seems seems insightful, seems like well yeah,

1155
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 2: and uh and obviously the UNI Bomber was a bad dude, clearly,

1156
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 2: But there's a whole lot of that manifesto that's really interesting.

1157
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:56,520
Speaker 1: But yeah, Well, any closing thoughts, what was it?

1158
00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 2: What was the most shocking part of the thing or

1159
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 2: your favorite part of the something that really stood out

1160
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 2: to you.

1161
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 8: My favorite part was the church story and that guy

1162
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 8: about you know him fighting for everything. I think that

1163
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:12,600
Speaker 8: was in the first one coon Jack and Coon Jack.

1164
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:15,560
Speaker 8: I got the difference right here under my under my shirt.

1165
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:15,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1166
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, wasn't that good. That's that's good writing. I mean,

1167
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 2: surely he just made that up, like I don't think

1168
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 2: that happened.

1169
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 6: It kind of reminded me a little a little bit

1170
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:29,200
Speaker 6: of Jerry Klower.

1171
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 1: What's his name, Jerry Klower?

1172
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 6: Jerry Klower? That story about the guy. Do you remember

1173
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 6: when you did the podcast on him? Any the story

1174
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:39,920
Speaker 6: about the it actually sounds a lot like stuff that

1175
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 6: does happen in small, small churches. I mean, he really does.

1176
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:48,760
Speaker 6: When I read, I thought, man, he saw that happen. Yeah,

1177
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 6: the chandelier story running Jerry Clower chandel.

1178
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 7: The circumstances around his death were pretty fascinating.

1179
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we didn't we didn't get into it.

1180
00:59:57,760 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 3: Well that was a.

1181
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 1: Cliff Yeah, yeah, I felt.

1182
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 2: So you can get you can read the book Unmasking

1183
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 2: the Clans and my Dante Carter and I actually I

1184
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:12,240
Speaker 2: did that interview before the book came out. Okay, Yeah,

1185
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:14,920
Speaker 2: so the detail and and and I had to respect

1186
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:19,120
Speaker 2: Dan and I understood he just get he laid out everything,

1187
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 2: you know, he hid nothing, and he wrote this book

1188
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 2: and he's the world's expert in ASA Carter, and so

1189
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 2: when he didn't want to tell me how he died,

1190
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 2: I respected that and I didn't go like look it up.

1191
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 1: So we don't really know how he died.

1192
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 5: So can you tell us here?

1193
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:33,560
Speaker 3: We'll keep it a secret.

1194
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:37,920
Speaker 1: I still don't know. The book came out in April,

1195
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 1: like it's barely out.

1196
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 6: So we can all go. Look, I think we should

1197
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 6: respect we should respect him.

1198
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:43,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll go.

1199
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:48,360
Speaker 6: I'm I'm super curious, especially because he kept calling it biblical.

1200
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:51,959
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1201
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 7: Interesting, yea mm hmm, like maybe he had a worse

1202
01:00:57,560 --> 01:00:58,520
Speaker 7: brother that killed him.

1203
01:00:59,000 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 1: Maybe.

1204
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 6: Wow, I'm concerned about this family.

1205
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep.

1206
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:09,960
Speaker 2: Well, we'll be moving on to greener pastures on bear

1207
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:14,000
Speaker 2: Grease after this one. Next next episode is going to

1208
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:16,200
Speaker 2: be really good. I can't tell you what it's about,

1209
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:16,959
Speaker 2: but I.

1210
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 7: Cam I'll call Dan Carter and ask him the country.

1211
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:23,920
Speaker 4: Life DM men, I'll tell you what it is.

1212
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:27,640
Speaker 1: Well, thank all you guys for coming much appreciated.

1213
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:35,360
Speaker 3: Go see yeah two yeah yeah, yeah.

1214
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:37,920
Speaker 4: Hey, Josh, you know, I tell you you said something

1215
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:40,800
Speaker 4: about my beard every table, what my grandpa said about.

1216
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:41,800
Speaker 3: The first beard I grew.

1217
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 4: He said that looks ridiculous, I said, why, he said,

1218
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 4: I would not cultivate on my face, what grows wild

1219
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:48,840
Speaker 4: on my behind?

1220
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:58,680
Speaker 7: My gosh, I broke out my passport from nineteen ninety

1221
01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:01,880
Speaker 7: four and showing, showing these guys my little pencil mustache

1222
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 7: that I was really proud of back then, because that's

1223
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:06,600
Speaker 7: all I could all I could grow, was like seventeen

1224
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:09,720
Speaker 7: hairs on each side, like.

1225
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 3: A hen turkey with a beer.

1226
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 1: Yeah,