00:00:02 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Wait, tell me about the animal communicator. Have we taled about on the podcast or just after the podcast? 00:00:14 Speaker 2: Probably just like a real life he. 00:00:17 Speaker 1: Was going to animal communicator, Yes, to explain to her animals. Yes, that she's having a child. 00:00:24 Speaker 3: Yes. 00:00:25 Speaker 1: So it was like Katie and this person and her horse and her cat sitting around in a circle and my husband holding paws and hoofs. 00:00:33 Speaker 2: My very patient husband was also there. It was over FaceTime. But I do want to no, I do want to point out that this woman has met all of my animals so separately. Maybe that makes it a little bit more legit. Most interesting headline from the thirty minute session, which costs seventy five dollars, which was a great way to spend seventy five dollars, I would recommend it. Apparently the cat didn't know I was pregnant, okay, and so we told him that, and the animal communicator said that he was relieved because he thought I was sick, Like you thought. 00:01:10 Speaker 4: I'd just on the call. 00:01:11 Speaker 1: You're sitting on zoom with the cat sitting next to you, the little headphones on, yeah, and you're like you turn to him and you're like, Keatrick. 00:01:19 Speaker 2: Well, you see, she establishes a connection with the cat. You know, she sort of goes into the space where her and the cat are communicating. So I thought that was pretty interesting. 00:01:31 Speaker 1: Okay, so he's really, he's really, he feels good. He understands the situation. 00:01:36 Speaker 2: Now. Yes, and the horse, the horse apparently was psyched. His name is Gus. 00:01:41 Speaker 4: He wasn't on the zoom call. 00:01:42 Speaker 2: He wasn't on the zoom call. By her telling, Gus has known since day one that I was pregnant and. 00:01:48 Speaker 1: She knows that. Did she separately chat with Gus or yes, this is just like astral plan can She. 00:01:55 Speaker 2: Like says goodbye to Katrick, and then she goes back into the headspace, connects with the horse, but not on zoom. No, just yeah, exactly, you've got it. 00:02:05 Speaker 4: You've got it. 00:02:07 Speaker 2: Apparently the horse is psyched, and he's like feeling very proud. 00:02:10 Speaker 1: This is totally reliable information. 00:02:13 Speaker 2: Again, in the same way that we were talking about ETFs as performance art. That's sort of how you have to go into this, like I'm just here for entertainment. 00:02:24 Speaker 4: You're here, I believe it right of course, full throat. 00:02:27 Speaker 1: Okay, why is the horse proud? 00:02:29 Speaker 2: Apparently he just likes babies. He really likes me, he's. 00:02:33 Speaker 4: Considering invested in your success. 00:02:35 Speaker 2: And let me again say my husband was sitting right next to me, my very patient husband. Apparently the horse was like, he's approaching this is like, this is our baby, and he wants to use a baby as soon as possible, Like it's the horse's baby. Some of this we might have to God, because. 00:02:52 Speaker 1: It's no, no, no, that we have twenty more minutes on this. 00:02:59 Speaker 2: Knowing my two animals, it definitely tracks with both of their personalities. Gus is probably much more outwardly friendly than my cat. My parent likes two people and that's me and my husband. 00:03:10 Speaker 1: Right, this is what we call cold reading. Yeah, the animal psychic is like, this is an outgoing horse, This is a nervous cat. 00:03:17 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but I did think it was endearing that. Apparently the cat just thought I was getting like worse and worse as the months were on, like less and less mobile, and maybe he didn't have that much longer left with me. 00:03:31 Speaker 1: So we're going to check in in like seven months. 00:03:33 Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll bring her on. 00:03:34 Speaker 1: We'll get a sense of like, was the horse proud? Proudly look at it. 00:03:40 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, perhaps trot about right, we'll see right. 00:03:45 Speaker 1: Right, Well, we'll get a sense of whether this was entirely accurate information that you got from the horse psychic. 00:03:50 Speaker 2: We will amazing. 00:03:51 Speaker 4: Yeah, I really. 00:03:54 Speaker 2: That is this podcast. It was so good. 00:03:57 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all that hell from here. 00:03:59 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:04:00 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Money Stuff Podcast. You're a weekly podcast where we talk about stuff related to money. I'm Matt Levine and I write the Money Stuff column for Bloomberg Opinion. 00:04:11 Speaker 2: And I'm Katie Greifeld, a reporter for Bloomberg News and an anchor for Bloomberg Television. 00:04:25 Speaker 1: I guess we have to just get right into the sportscambling ETF. 00:04:28 Speaker 4: Yeah, which is like my right, Well, I. 00:04:31 Speaker 2: Just want the audience to know I think they do that. This is your idea. You want to start off strong with ETFs. 00:04:37 Speaker 1: You're misunderstanding, Okay, I don't care about ETFs. I do care about it. I've said this before, like the ETF is the modern way to like package any sort of bet. So it's like yeah, sure, Like in the olden days, it was like the bet that they were pitching to you is like by the S and P five hundred, so like their S and P five hundred nextense. But now there's like anything you can think of, like by right strategies and like long tesla short forward all these things. 00:05:02 Speaker 2: Any fleeting emotion you might. 00:05:04 Speaker 1: Have, anything, any idea you might have is packaged into a bet that is called an ETF. Because an ETF has some good properties which I will now enumerate for you. One you can buy in your brokerage account. You can buy in your retirement account, like if you have like an IR kind of yeah, kind of. It's like it's just like a very good package to sell the retail investors. There are other ways to package these ideas, I mean self structured notes, but like the most general use retail investor package is an ETF. And obviously now sports bets have come to financial markets, right Calshy and polymarket are sports betting sites that everyone pretends their financial institutions. And so now there's going to be a sports gambling ETF. It's called the Subversive All Seasons Sports ETF. They will hire a professional gambler who will make sports bets on calci and only wrapped into an ETF, and you can buy shares in the ETF. 00:06:03 Speaker 2: It's just a filing. 00:06:04 Speaker 1: So we've talked about this. The SEC are meditating on. I think they've called this something like novel ETFs. 00:06:09 Speaker 4: Yeah you mean sports. 00:06:11 Speaker 1: Yeah, like weird like leverage, single style, all the all the ETFs that are not as some people have hundred funds that they're like, how should we handle these things? And obviously one big aspect of that is prediction markets, by which I mean sports gamdling ETFs. And so they did, and we've talked about this. They opened it up for comments, and I wrote a column about the sports gambling ETF in which I said, consider this my comment for the ETF's comment file. Someone actually filed it with the SEC, so it's now on the SEC's comment file, like a comment from Matt Levine. I didn't file it, but congratu. 00:06:45 Speaker 2: Yeah, so we have seen prediction markets. 00:06:49 Speaker 1: I'm probably going to be cited in the decision they. 00:06:53 Speaker 3: I don't know. 00:06:54 Speaker 2: I would love that for you. There's been prediction market ETF filings, like for elections and stuff. This is the first sports specific. 00:07:01 Speaker 1: It's also a little different from the other ones. The election ones. 00:07:04 Speaker 2: Are those are more binary. 00:07:06 Speaker 1: Yeah, they're time limited, so their binary they're like you buy shares in the like Republicans win ETF, and then if the Republicans win, you like double your money or whatever. And if the Republicans lose, you like got a zero, right, So the ETF has a finite life and then it ends, right. This one is I think designed to solve the problem of like, if you're an ETF manager, you don't want it to end. So this is like it's rolling, like they make bets and if they win, they make more bets and they hopefully make more money than they lose, and they keep the ETF around forever. Yeah, or that's the idea. And when I first heard that, I was like, oh, yeah, that makes sense, like you want to keep the ETF around forever. But now I'm not so sure. Like I wrote about this, like they should offer like the weekly like chats win ETF. 00:07:48 Speaker 2: Like what's the hot game of the week, right, and like if it. 00:07:51 Speaker 1: Goes to zero, it goes to zero, and you want you your ETF the next day, and if it wins then like yeah, people take their money up. 00:07:57 Speaker 2: Yeah, So you wrote about this also, Athanasio, Sarah Fagas from Bloomberg Intelligence art about this and the title of his note was just what's the fun in a prediction market ETF? And he's basically making the same point that I think you did that if someone else is placing the bets, it's less fun, like you're missing the points. 00:08:16 Speaker 1: Its very fun for me as a person who has been predicting sports gambling ETFs. It's not that fun for sports gamblers. 00:08:21 Speaker 2: No, you're buying like a diversified portfolio of bets placed by someone else. 00:08:25 Speaker 1: One thing I'm not really clear on is like I like actively managed ETFs have a range of like how they disclose their positions, but like, clearly, as a marketing matter, you would want to disclose and hype your positions in the CTF like you'd want to send your shareholders like a daily like here are the games you should be watching, and here's how we're betting right, just so they like have an emotional investment in the bets that you have made without their input. 00:08:52 Speaker 2: I think you can do that to an extend, can do it have to be clever. 00:08:58 Speaker 1: I think some active ETF managers would prefer to not disclose their positions in real time because then they shouldn't like stock traders. But like these people are not stock traders. These people are wells. 00:09:12 Speaker 2: On the topic of active ETFs, I was thinking about this, like, again, you're outsourcing your picks to someone else, a professional gambler, right, which. 00:09:20 Speaker 1: Is a financial decision. It's probably you know, you probably do better with a professional gambler than with your own like erectional biases, but that's not why you're a sports. 00:09:27 Speaker 2: But but you think about like active management within the ETF world. I mean, you do have some old school stock pickers, but that is very much not in fashion right now, all of me. But like the active boom within the ETF rapper, it's like, okay, either it's like systematic and defined outcome strategies or it's the exact other end, it's leverage single stock bets. Like there's not a lot of money to go around for someone else to like put together a portfolio for you. And I feel like these this ETF and things like it probably run the risk of also struggling to find an audience. 00:10:04 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. I think that there's a good chance that all of this is just fake and I have willed it into existence by joking bet sports gambling ETFs, and they will never actually be a sports gambling ETF and the sacals I know or like investors will say know. But like, if you imagined in five years there was a flourishing sports gambling ETF industry, I think it would look like what you just said. There would be systematic strategies, which I don't know quite what that looks like, but I think we've talked about one on this podcast, which is like if you bet heavy favorites in college football that appears to have positive expected returns, Yeah, because nobody likes the best heavy favorites and so you get some good odds. This is not gambling advice. And then on the other end, you'll have like leverage single stock, which is like just like the Mets win ATF where if every day at either doubles or goes to zero, and then you put your money in the next day, this. 00:10:51 Speaker 2: Will exist for a very finite moment in time. The CTF or like it. 00:10:56 Speaker 1: Exists the next day they bet ninety nine percent of the money and then like you know, if they lose, like there's a little bit of money in the pot, but like, yeah, you basically have to reapt to to bet again. Yeah, I think the single sports bet ETF, the leverage single sports bett EF. 00:11:11 Speaker 2: I'm getting like a little bit excited. 00:11:13 Speaker 1: Don't you, like, like, like what else is there? 00:11:17 Speaker 2: Well, now I'm about to like again clock out for six months. We've talked about this before. I'm so excited to see what the world looks like when I come back, and maybe we'll be further along that timeline. 00:11:26 Speaker 1: I'm a little worried. I feel like the column that I wrote was not explicitly anti sports scandling ETF, but was like a little bit implicitly anti sports scandling et. I'd be sad if like my column and the SEC comment file is what kills sports gamling et comment to be clear, well, because like they're bad as like you know, for the world, but like for me, yeah, for comedy, for this podcast. 00:11:53 Speaker 2: It's like, do you think about yourself for the greater good? 00:11:56 Speaker 1: The problem is that like my SEC comment sort of directing towards of the greater good and like for me to file an additional comment being like, but I think it would be funny if you approve these Wait wait, I'm talking about the other. 00:12:29 Speaker 2: Career. 00:12:30 Speaker 1: It's exciting. 00:12:31 Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like I proposed this topic a few weeks ago, and you said that's boring because here we are you propose. 00:12:38 Speaker 1: Like the South Korean like regulators are sad about levers ets. Okay, but now they have expressed their sadness by like sort of banning them. 00:12:48 Speaker 2: They actually did something which is cool. So late in June, South Korean regulators, as Matt said, we're enumerting their regrets. They were also considering whether they should take action to basically intervene in the leverage single stock craze ETF craze that's been happening in South Korea. And they have. 00:13:08 Speaker 1: South Korea has a leverage single stock ETF. 00:13:10 Speaker 2: Craze, right, yes, they only recently launched. 00:13:13 Speaker 1: There's a boomer radical saying that like seventy percent of the stock market is it's just Samsung X, s k Heinex and leveraged single stock ETFs on Samsung and K Hunting. 00:13:22 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's nuts. It's a very interesting petri dish. But the news from this week is that now South Korean regulators are going to temporarily halt new listings of new single stock leverage gtfs. But that's not all. Stay with me here. They're going to lift the minimum deposit requirement for leverage GTF trading. They're going to increase the mandatory training requirement for leverage GTF investors to three hours from two. And they're also going to bump up the minimum trading lot size to twenty units from one. So that's a lot, that's a lot of things to do. 00:13:56 Speaker 1: Yeah, so they're like trying to crack down on these because they're bad. I mean, I mean incredibly volatility announcing. 00:14:04 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're just eating the South Korean stock market. 00:14:07 Speaker 1: I've seen you at this. I wrote about this on Thursday. Everyone understands that margin debt leads to like exacerbates booming bus cycles. Right, Like stocks are going up, you borrow money to buy more stocks. That pushes stocks up more than stocks go down. And like people get margin calls and that they have to sell stock and that pushes stocks down some more. And like that's a phenomenon that people understand. But it's like there's like friction to that phenomenon because it's not like every time stocks go up, everyone who in stocks barrows more money to buy stocks, right, It's like it's like a more approximate thing, like more stocks go down ten percent, Most people don't get margin calls because like they have you know, fifty percent margin. A leverage single stock ETF is like perfect distilled margin debt because every day, if the stock goes up, it borrows more money to buy more and every day if the stock goes down even a little bit, it's so stock to pay back some leans. So it like really concentrates the volatility effect of margin lending. So in some sense, a leverg GTF is like a better way for a retail investor to get margin debt. But like from a regulator's perspective, it's just much worse because it's just super volatility announcing yeah, and they seem very unhappy about it. 00:15:21 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're actually taking steps to damp in this enthusiasm, which I think is interesting because you know, I'm a dumb American, so I approach everything from the US perspective, and it's hard to imagine a world where the SEC would take such steps. 00:15:38 Speaker 1: I hear you. I mean, it's not that hard to imagine a world. Is hard to imagine a world where the current ath you see would take those up. I will say that there's a difference between seventy percent of the stock market and like whatever presentage. You know US leverage is represent now right, that's like your whole stock market becomes. 00:15:56 Speaker 2: A that's fair if we were in that situation, perhaps sometimes will be taken. I did speak to Gary Gensler on television last Friday, so before South Korea's right, if you don't know friend of the pod, Gary Gensler goes without introduction. I did ask him, you know, because we operate in a disclosure based system, an issuer has to outline the potential risks and then it's on you if you want to lose all your money. For the most part, at least when it comes to ETFs, he was vocally against leverage single stock ETFs when they launched, which is funny because he was the chair of the SEC. But he said he had some line that they present particular risk, like he was in public against these products. And I asked him about does the current system go far enough in the US to product investors and he said, if there's proper disclosure material disclosure, the basic bargain is the American public gets to say what they want on vest in or even bad one. I think that's the right way. Still doesn't like them. 00:17:06 Speaker 1: But by the way, you say, it's hard to imagine the sec doing anything a right it, But like it's put out a request for comment, right, Like we just talked about it, right, It's it's like I call it sports camping, but it's it's all weird ETFs, including levels. 00:17:18 Speaker 2: So you're right, they've requested comment. In the meantime, you have things like the prediction market ETFs in purgatory right now. But I don't know, it's hard to imagine training. 00:17:32 Speaker 1: Although there is like trading options, you have to get some options disclosure, and like there's some notion that you have to like inquire if your customers are sophisticated enough to trade options. You can imagine a sophistication inquiry. 00:17:46 Speaker 2: I don't know. 00:17:46 Speaker 1: I don't know either. We have that in the US with like you know, the accredited and investor standard. People are always trying to make that. You know, right now, if you want to buy private stuff, you have to be accredited, which like largely means you have a certain amount of money. But they've like over time, like qualifications have leaked in where like if you've like you know, passed the securities licensing exams, like that's good enough. There's some of that in the US. 00:18:12 Speaker 2: Also, I think it was four years ago. Findra was considering whether or not there should be knowledge checks on complex products, which at the time just meant leverage single sock ETFs and they got a lot of passionate letters and ultimately dropped that, a lot. 00:18:26 Speaker 1: Of passionate letters saying I don't have to know anything to buy. 00:18:30 Speaker 3: Yeah, so you emailed me on Monday. 00:18:47 Speaker 4: On Monday, yeah, to. 00:18:48 Speaker 1: Be like, I'm talking to the strategy CEO that is wrongly the chief executive officer of the company called Strategy formulated called micro Strategy, that is a bitcoin treasury company. And we discussed what you might ask and we agreed that you would conduct the entire interview about strategies software business which exists and plus hundreds of people. 00:19:09 Speaker 2: That's the thing. 00:19:10 Speaker 4: And you didn't do that. 00:19:11 Speaker 2: Well, I did ask him a question. 00:19:12 Speaker 1: About it, like we have a software business. 00:19:15 Speaker 2: Well, I said, why did not you have fifteen hundred employees? What did they do it? I didn't say that, but now I mean, how is You're right? 00:19:24 Speaker 1: Well, what are those people doing all day? 00:19:25 Speaker 2: I said, how much of your time do you spend with the bitcoin treasury component of your business versus the actual underlying software business and one hundred zero. He was like, you know some days at sixty forty some days really yeah, wow, Wow, you didn't watch the interview. 00:19:42 Speaker 1: I did watch the interview. 00:19:43 Speaker 2: I get it. 00:19:43 Speaker 1: That's that part. 00:19:44 Speaker 2: He did say that the fact that they are a twenty five year public company gives them a little bit more maturity than maybe some of the other dats that have listed publicly. 00:19:55 Speaker 1: Sure, you know, I did watch the interview, and I found it somewhat crazy. 00:20:03 Speaker 2: That's a pregnant plaus. 00:20:05 Speaker 1: Uh, it's wild. I know, you're a wild company. 00:20:11 Speaker 2: They really are. And it's so interesting too. It's not just Michael Saylor. 00:20:14 Speaker 1: No, it's more of the entire philosophy of the thing. I mean, like, you know, they like their Their philosophy is like we're going to issue stock at a premium to buy bitcoin, and we're gonna then borrow against bitcoin at very high floating rates. And this will be great because Bitcoin keeps going up and as long as we can keep doing it, and now they can now it stops right like bitcoin has gone down. Also, like they no longer can issue stock at really any premium, like Candisty stock at a material premium to buy bitcoin, and so like the whole trade ended. Yeah, and so you were like, so what now, And I found the answers strange. 00:20:54 Speaker 2: I did ask him, I mean, do you have a break glass plan, Like what if bitcoin goes down to thirty thousand or twenty thousand, you know, just picking numbers, and he said, actually, when bitcoin gets down close to eight thousand or ten thousand, that is when we have to consider the risks associated with our debt. Until that point in time, we feel secure about our balance sheets. So circle that on your charge. 00:21:17 Speaker 1: That's like their actual debt. So like their capital structure is like they have a lot of stock. They have a lot of preferred stock, which I think of as debt, but it's perpetual that they don't have to pay back, and they have a certain amount of like senior and secure convertible bonds where like they have to pay them back, right, Yeah, And so if the bitcoin goes down to like eight thousand, then they don't have enough money in their bitcoin account to pay back their debt, but they are. That's the whole experiment stops working well before you get to that point. 00:21:43 Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a lot of the preferred stock. 00:21:45 Speaker 2: A lot of stuff that will happen on the way to eight thousand. 00:21:47 Speaker 1: It's such a wild company. Like one of their wild things is Stretch, their preferred stock that is a floating rate, and when they issued it led like one year ago, they were like, we're going to float the rate so that it always trades at par because the idea of it is it's like a zero duration bitcoin credit instrument. It's like a bank deposit or a money market fund backed by bitcoin. And then the rate I think they issued it like like nine percent or something, and the rate has now gone out to twelve percent and it does not trade it par like, and they've abandoned defending par. They're like, we can't raise the rate that high, so we're just gonna pay you twelve percent on this preferred stock and it'll trade it like eighty five. And in the interview that you had with him, you were like, what are you gonna do about Stretch, And they're like, we're gonna try to get it back to par, not by raising the rate, but by basically improving our credit. Like basically we're gonna like build up a cash reserve so people will know that we can pay the dividend and that will improve their credit enough that it'll go back to par. 00:22:47 Speaker 4: It's just like yeah, it's. 00:22:50 Speaker 1: Just like it's not a part like you built this capital structure and like we're gonna sell these like par zero duration securities and like no we're not. 00:22:59 Speaker 3: It's fun. 00:23:00 Speaker 1: It'll come back that it'll be. 00:23:01 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been thinking of it like scaffolding the different like vehicles that they've built up. 00:23:07 Speaker 1: I guess, but like they've sort of like kicked away the scaffolding. That's true, it like mid construction. I don't know, it's so weird. Yeah, I'm really I feel like we talked about this like a week or two ago and you're like what is the And I feel like I know less now after watching that interview than I did before. Like one doesn't get the sense they know it's gonna happen. 00:23:29 Speaker 2: I don't know they are raising that cashers or they sold the. 00:23:33 Speaker 1: Selling stock, which is like now not the accreative selling's not going to premium that they were doing for years, the whole the whole trade just like yeah, it was such a like virtuous cycle trade for so long and if anyone was like this doesn't make sense as you know, Jim chaneos Wlaser, I was like, this doesn't make sense. You could be like, wow, but it's a virtual cycle. You know, you saw out a premium always goes up. It's fine, It's like no problem, and like. 00:24:00 Speaker 2: Now, well at least their stated intention is to issue more stretch. When it gets back to. 00:24:09 Speaker 1: Part, your stated intention was to pay a dividend that would keep it apart, but that's not anymore. 00:24:13 Speaker 2: Also, to return to buying bitcoin, they've famously started selling bitcoin. 00:24:18 Speaker 1: Right, it is true that like, on the one hand, like this is a trade where like if the stock is an a premium, issues stocked by bitcoin. If the stock is not at a premium, you sell bitcoin to buy back stock. As a like corporate finance matter, that sort of makes sense. But as a like keeping this whole thing afloat matter, the only thing you can do is sell stocked by bitcoin. Yeah, well it's just one way. 00:24:40 Speaker 2: We'll see. Apparently they have enough cash now to cover dividend payments for two years, So okay, circle, you know eight ten thousand on your chart and also will check in in two years. 00:24:54 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is another one where like you're going to be watching with interest on. 00:24:58 Speaker 4: Your oh yes, rental leave. 00:25:00 Speaker 2: I will. I feel like in some ways it'll be more exciting because I'll probably only remember to do it a few times, right, you know, like what's the strategy? 00:25:07 Speaker 1: What's that to that? All right, let's talking about SpaceX, speaking of speaking of trades that stopped working. When we came in here on Thursday afternoon, SpaceX was like one thirty two. Yeah, is below the IPO price. 00:25:23 Speaker 2: Which was one thirty five. Yeah. It got there pretty quickly, like it round tripped pretty quickly because it wanted. 00:25:31 Speaker 1: It was a couple of weeks. 00:25:32 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, it feels kind of quick. 00:25:34 Speaker 1: It's kind of quick. 00:25:35 Speaker 2: I guess, Yeah, I guess I'm just more patient, you know. 00:25:38 Speaker 1: I think when we talked about it, like like the week after the IPI was like it had a perfect ipeo pop. They priced the IPO at one thirty five, which is not a price that was come to during IPO marketing, but just the price that Elon Musk made up apparently, And they priced it one thirty five, and the stock immediately traded up like exactly twenty percent, which is exactly what you want in an IPO. And then it traded up from there and it was like great, great IPI and now it is below the IPI price, which is a traditional source of shame and failure. 00:26:07 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know much, and I wonder what happens from here because you know, as we've discussed on this podcast, we are going to get those lock up experies, yeah, pretty soon, so there's going to be like an interesting waterfall potentially of selling. 00:26:21 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was. I was writing about this a bit this week. The lockups start releasing after earnings, which is like they haven't said their earnings day, but it's like early to mid August. 00:26:29 Speaker 2: It's so bummed. I'm going to miss it. I'm so bummed. I would have loved to be on television for that, for SpaceX. 00:26:36 Speaker 1: Earnings, for the earnings like susspunthole, like it's fun. 00:26:41 Speaker 2: You have to break the numbers and then talk about them. 00:26:43 Speaker 1: The lockups, you know, they have like six months and one year lockups, but like they release early over time, and the shares that will be released after earnings and like August is more than the shares they sold in the IPI. It's like they're more more than doubling the supply of the stock, and I don't know, but like I assume that's part of why the stock is down. 00:27:03 Speaker 2: Like you know, like in anticipation. 00:27:05 Speaker 1: Everything happens in anticipation, right, So, like I think the stock was up until a couple of weeks ago in part because everyone knew that index demand was coming. So you're like, oh, you can like pencil out how many shares the NASDAQ funds are going to buy, and so like there's both like psychologically but also just like hedge funds are buying those shares to deliver to the NASDAK funds, and so like there's a lot of towes for the stock from everyone knowing that the index ones are going to buy. Now that's over, and the next thing that's going to happen besides earnings and rocket launches, but like the next like you know, supply demand thing that's going to happen is hundreds of millions of shares are going to become available to trade. 00:27:40 Speaker 2: Yeah, unless I mean the insiders don't sell. 00:27:42 Speaker 1: I've seen that this, like they were going to become available to trade, right, well, they sell, I don't know, it depends on the price, right, Like at one thirty, will the insiders want to sell. Like, I think a lot of people are true believers and will not want to sell. I think a lot of I don't know, Like I don't have a really good psychological model of the average like current or former early SpaceX and. 00:28:04 Speaker 2: Employees whale and space lectures. 00:28:06 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a big whale. It's employee, right, And like if I were a rocket engineer who was sitting on thirty million dollars of SpaceX stock, would I take money off the table at my first opportunity? Like, yes, like at any price, I would take money off the table. But I'm not. I'm not a SpaceX engineer, and I think those people have different risk preferences from me. Yea, But I don't know, Like I think some stock is going to become available. 00:28:32 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:28:33 Speaker 1: The other thing that I don't understand is that SpaceX has said and its IPO filing is like, you know, they sold five percent of the stock and the rest of it is like one hundred percent of the other stock is subject to lockups. I don't know if that's true. I don't know if people like find some ways to sell stock between the IPO and the lock up release. I don't know if like only the IPO shares are actually available in the market, but this is all speculative. 00:28:56 Speaker 2: Yeah, anyway, that's why it's fun. So that's something to keep an eye out for. 00:29:01 Speaker 1: It also going to happen. I know, we're really just getting into stuff that like you're not going to see true. 00:29:11 Speaker 4: I know, I'll text you. 00:29:12 Speaker 2: I'm so excited strategy. That would be so sweet, and I'd be like, Matt, I don't know my name. 00:29:19 Speaker 4: I'm busy. 00:29:20 Speaker 2: Even if I just put my hand over the chart of like the six months where I'm out, I'm interested to see where it is six months, you know, even without the details of like all the ways the line moved. I'm excited to see. 00:29:35 Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot to a lot to talk about when you get back, mostly of course psychic. 00:29:42 Speaker 2: If I come back, I'm just gonna. 00:29:50 Speaker 1: And that was The Money Stuff Podcast. 00:29:52 Speaker 2: I'm Matt Levine and I'm Katie Greifeld. 00:29:54 Speaker 1: I'm world subscribing to The Money Stuff new letter on. 00:29:57 Speaker 2: Bloomberg dot com and you can find me on Bloomberg TV every day on the close between three and five pm Eastern. 00:30:05 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you of it. If you can send an email to Moneypod at Bloomberg dot net. Ask us the question and we might answer it on the air. 00:30:12 Speaker 2: You can also subscribe to our show wherever you're listening right now and leave us a review. It helps more people find the show. 00:30:18 Speaker 1: The Money Stuff Podcast is produced by Anamazerakas, Moses on On and Alexis HoTT Our. 00:30:25 Speaker 2: Theme music was composed by Blake Maples. 00:30:28 Speaker 1: Amy Keen is our executive producer. Thanks for listening to The Money Stuff Podcast. We'll be back next week with more stuff.