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Speaker 1: On this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.

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Speaker 2: When you have feelings and you get into a relationship

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Speaker 2: that becomes abusive or is headed in the direction of

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Speaker 2: being abusive, you feel angry, you feel sad, anything outside

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Speaker 2: of what is considered positive emotions, and sometimes even then,

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Speaker 2: because you're not allowed to be too happy either, you

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Speaker 2: squash whatever feelings you have and you prioritize that of

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Speaker 2: the other person.

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Speaker 1: Today's episode is sure to provide you with motivation, inspiration,

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Speaker 1: or a fresh perspective. If you have any AHA moments

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Speaker 1: or appreciate anything from this episode, please leave us a

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Speaker 1: review to let us know we're on the right track. Also,

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Speaker 1: we release episodes every Friday, so be sure to subscribe

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Speaker 1: on iTunes and visit cultivatinghurspace dot com to access our

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Speaker 1: exclusive after show and other bonus content from the Patreon tab.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Cultivating her Space, a podcast dedicated to uplifting

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Speaker 2: women like you. We're your hosts doctor Dominique Brussard, a

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Speaker 2: college professor and psychologist.

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Speaker 1: And Terry Lomax, a techy and motivational speaker. In a

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Speaker 1: world where black women are often misrepresented and misunderstood, please

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Speaker 1: join us as we initiate authentic conversations on everything from

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Speaker 1: fibroids to fake friends, and create a safe space where

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Speaker 1: black women can just.

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Speaker 2: Be our quote of the day. Our virtues are wrapped

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Speaker 2: inside of our limitations. It is only when we are

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Speaker 2: in close proximity to others that we begin to intimately

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Speaker 2: explore the boundaries of our virtues by slamming into our limitations.

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Speaker 2: That quote comes to us from Resma Mini to come,

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Speaker 2: And I'm going to read that quote one more time,

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Speaker 2: this time not just for the folks in the back,

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Speaker 2: but for myself so that I can really ground myself

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Speaker 2: and sit with this powerful quote. Our virtues are wrapped

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Speaker 2: inside of our limitations. It is only when we are

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Speaker 2: in close proximity to others that we begin to intimately

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Speaker 2: explore the boundaries of our virtues by slamming into our limitations.

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Speaker 2: All right, t you know how we do.

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Speaker 3: That?

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Speaker 2: You already shaking your head?

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Speaker 1: Well, because, Okay, So when Dov and I talked about

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Speaker 1: this quote before we started the episode, I was like,

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Speaker 1: this quote is powerful. It's so deep, and I feel like,

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Speaker 1: if y'all are not podcasters, you may not understand this,

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Speaker 1: but I feel like it's one of those quotes where

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about it on the episode and I'll read

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Speaker 1: it later. I'm like, wait, I should have said this

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Speaker 1: because it's so it's so profound, like there's so there's

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Speaker 1: so much depth to it that I feel like I

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Speaker 1: could do, like you could probably do like a dissertation

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Speaker 1: all this, Like it's very it's very deep. And so

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Speaker 1: I want to pass the mic to you, Dom so

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Speaker 1: you can go first, so I can get my thoughts together,

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Speaker 1: because yeah, what do you think, girl? What does this

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Speaker 1: quote mean to you? What is it saying?

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Speaker 2: So immediately, I think the thing that jumped out at

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Speaker 2: me is that we learn about ourselves most quickly when

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Speaker 2: we are in relationship with other people, when we are

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Speaker 2: engaging with other people. Right, So I could say I'm

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Speaker 2: a compassionate person, right, But do we really know if

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Speaker 2: I'm compassionate, If I'm only in agent with myself, we

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Speaker 2: don't know who we truly are and what we truly

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Speaker 2: stand for until we are forced to engage with other

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Speaker 2: people and put those things into practice.

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Speaker 1: I like that.

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Speaker 2: And then I think about our topic for today, and

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Speaker 2: it really and you know, I'm not gonna get too

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Speaker 2: deep into our topic just yet, but in terms of

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Speaker 2: relating it to our quote of the day. It reminds

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Speaker 2: me that oftentimes we define ourselves in relation to other

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Speaker 2: people and not necessarily thinking about what it really means

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Speaker 2: to be in relation to ourselves, like who are we

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Speaker 2: in relation to ourselves? And then who we are in

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Speaker 2: relationship with other people? And again, the boundaries that we

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Speaker 2: set how we describe who we are, what virtues, what

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Speaker 2: traits with characteristics we say we possess don't truly get

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Speaker 2: tested or seen until we're bumping up against someone else,

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Speaker 2: and shit can really hit the fan when we're engaging

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Speaker 2: in a traumatic situation or engaging with someone who is

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Speaker 2: not healthy for us.

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Speaker 1: Well, Dom, I think you hit the nail on the head,

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Speaker 1: and I think this is a great time for me

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Speaker 1: to offer some transparency to the listeners because I don't

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Speaker 1: have anything else to say. I think you hit the

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Speaker 1: nail on the head. I think you nailed it. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to continue to think more about this quote and

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Speaker 1: this topic after we record. But Lady, as we dive

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Speaker 1: into the topic, you can see the episode title right

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Speaker 1: you dive into the topic of trauma bonding. We're going

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Speaker 1: to jump into the definitions and all that stuff in

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Speaker 1: just a minute. But this is a topic that comes

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Speaker 1: up a lot for Dom and her work as a

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Speaker 1: therapist right now. Me, on the other hand, I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying that I am a student of TikTok University. I

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Speaker 1: am not saying that, but I do know the social

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Speaker 1: media be throwing out these buzzwords, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: times they define terms in ways that they're incorrect. Okay,

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Speaker 1: they out here given these erroneous definitions, and people run

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Speaker 1: with it, and I think that for me, Don again

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Speaker 1: and Lady, we're going to dive into it. For me,

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Speaker 1: when I first heard about trauma bonding, I thought it

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Speaker 1: was a totally different thing than it actually is, and

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Speaker 1: so I'm happy that we're going to go over the

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Speaker 1: definitions today. But I'm also, Lady, I feel like I'm

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Speaker 1: taking a bit of a either like a backseat or

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Speaker 1: like a student seat for this particular episode, because it's

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Speaker 1: a topic I have experience with, for sure, but it's

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Speaker 1: not a topic that I am an expert on by

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Speaker 1: way of identifying with the definitions and other things, so

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Speaker 1: I will be speaking from like personal experiences, and Dom,

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Speaker 1: I'm a low key like lay on your couch today,

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Speaker 1: if that's okay with.

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Speaker 2: You, and yes, yes, yes, okay, I could lay.

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Speaker 1: Out okay, cool, I'm gonna do that. So, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think the quote. I think you did a great job

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Speaker 1: with the overview of the quote and it makes perfect sense.

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Speaker 1: And when it comes to just sort of setting the

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Speaker 1: stage for the conversation, maybe you can tell us down

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Speaker 1: like why is this topic important in general? Just like

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Speaker 1: trauma bonding, we're talking about trauma bonding and protecting ourselves

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Speaker 1: from unhealthy relationships. Why is this topic important?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think is important because one of the things

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Speaker 2: that you first pointed out is TikTok University. And you

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Speaker 2: know a phrase that I use all the time is

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Speaker 2: TikTok University is not accredited and so and so what

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Speaker 2: that means, lady, if you don't know, is that universities

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Speaker 2: have to go through an accreditation process. So what that

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Speaker 2: means is that somebody, a group of people are coming

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Speaker 2: in and reviewing the work that universities do and there

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Speaker 2: are certain standards benchmarks that they need to meet. And

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Speaker 2: we can get into a whole nother podcast episode around

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Speaker 2: capitalism and white supremacy and how these standards are set up.

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Speaker 2: Blah blah, blah, right. But for the purposes of this episode,

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Speaker 2: what we want to think about is that TikTok University

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Speaker 2: is not accredited because there is no one coming in

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Speaker 2: and saying, oh, this person is giving out misinformation. And

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Speaker 2: what you have is a lot of folks who are

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Speaker 2: on there and using psychology words. And this is what

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Speaker 2: pop psychology becomes. It's using words that are popular within

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Speaker 2: psychology field and in therapy spaces and other mental health

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Speaker 2: spaces and taking it and applying it into pop culture

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Speaker 2: and not necessarily being accurate in what the definition is.

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Speaker 2: And trauma bonding is one of those words. So I'm

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Speaker 2: just gonna break it down for us so that we're clear. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So first, what is trauma? Because I hear so many

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Speaker 2: people using the word trauma and it's not necessarily accurate.

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Speaker 2: So I want to be clear that trauma is not

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Speaker 2: the event. It is what happens to the body in

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Speaker 2: the absence of an empathetic witness. It'll stay in our

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Speaker 2: systems until it is seen, and usually it is something

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Speaker 2: that happens too fast and too much for our system

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Speaker 2: to take. So again, it is not trauma, is not

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Speaker 2: the event. It is what happens to our body in

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Speaker 2: the absence of an empathetic witness.

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Speaker 1: Hey lady, it's Terry here, Dom and I want to

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Speaker 1: take a moment to thank you for choosing to listen

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Speaker 1: to our podcast. We love you for real, and we

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Speaker 1: want to give you a chance to learn more about

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Speaker 1: what's important to us. So tell us what you think

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Speaker 1: about this.

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Speaker 4: Imagine a world where you have a chance to get

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Speaker 4: featured on the Cultivating her Space podcast and share your

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Speaker 4: business brand or perspective with millions around the globe. Imagine

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Speaker 4: joining our monthly virtual video check ins where you can

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Speaker 4: connect with like minded black women like you and share

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Speaker 4: your ideas and episode suggestions with Terry and I. Now,

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Speaker 4: I want you to imagine a world where you're in

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Speaker 4: the exclusive Cultivating her Space sanctuary Slack channel, and throughout

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Speaker 4: your day and week, you are conversing with us about

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Speaker 4: what's happening in your life and sharing funny gifts and.

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Speaker 1: Or personal wins.

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Speaker 4: How does that sound?

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Speaker 1: Hopefully this is up your alley, lady, because we are

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Speaker 1: taking things to the next level this year, and we're

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Speaker 1: doubling down on investing in our community. That means you.

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Speaker 1: We want to meet you, connect with you, and create

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Speaker 1: communities of genuine women who love on black women and

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Speaker 1: push our culture and movement forward. We launched this podcast

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Speaker 1: All right, lady, we'll hop right back into the conversation now. Okay,

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Speaker 1: after each of these definitions, we had to pause a

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Speaker 1: little bit because that's some deep shit right there. Wow.

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Speaker 1: As you said that, I felt, I felt things happening

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Speaker 1: in my body, and I felt like a little emotional.

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Speaker 1: I felt some tears coming up because oh, okay, a

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Speaker 1: couple questions. But I think one of the things that

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Speaker 1: really stood out as you read this is the absence

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Speaker 1: of an empathetic witness and how many times so many

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Speaker 1: of us in life things without an empathetic witness. And

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Speaker 1: I also love that you said it is not the event,

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Speaker 1: it's what happens in the body, because I've had situations

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Speaker 1: as someone who's experienced a great deal of trauma where

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Speaker 1: me and another person may have experienced a traumatic experience,

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Speaker 1: but one of us was traumatized. Yeah, it was not right.

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Speaker 1: It impacted us very differently, right, And so I love

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Speaker 1: that you put the emphasis on it's not necessarily the event,

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Speaker 1: but really how it impacts us as an individual. Right,

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Speaker 1: Yet that experience can be different across people, right people?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So the thing about that is there can be two

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Speaker 2: people or multiple people. And this is why we say

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Speaker 2: trauma is not the event, because there can be multiple

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Speaker 2: people experiencing the same event and each person has a

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Speaker 2: different response to it. What you might define as trauma.

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Speaker 2: I don't have that reaction. We could be experiencing the

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Speaker 2: same thing and you might define it as trauma because

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Speaker 2: of how your body is responding. But if my body's

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Speaker 2: over here, like in neutral and we chilling, it's not

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Speaker 2: trauma for me. Trauma is subjective. Wow, Which is also

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Speaker 2: why it's important when people say that they were traumatized

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Speaker 2: or they experience something traumatic, to get clarity on what

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Speaker 2: it is that they mean, because it's really about there

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Speaker 2: are things that can be horrific, there are things that

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Speaker 2: can be painful, but it's not necessarily a trauma, right.

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Speaker 2: So I'll give you a couple of examples. I have keloids.

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Speaker 2: I recently started going back to get injections so that

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Speaker 2: the keloids would flatten out and minimize them. Shit's hurt, like,

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Speaker 2: no joke them. Shit's hurt. Okay, The shots hurt. The

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Speaker 2: shots hurt, Yes, the shots hurt. Okay. My body does

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Speaker 2: not perceive as painful as those shots are. My body

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Speaker 2: doesn't perceive it as dangerous or a threat, and so

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Speaker 2: therefore it's not a trauma to me. Right. It's painful,

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Speaker 2: but it's not a trauma to me.

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Speaker 1: Go ahead, can okay? Can I give an example? Because

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Speaker 1: I went to I had a dentist appointment this morning,

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Speaker 1: and then I was in the dentist office. I thought

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Speaker 1: about my reaction in the dentist office because I've had

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Speaker 1: traumatic childhood experiences with my teeth and my mouth and

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Speaker 1: being at the dentists breaking teeth, having my tooth chip

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Speaker 1: numerous times, and so because when I go to the dentist,

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Speaker 1: and I since when I was there, even though it

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Speaker 1: was a very relaxing environment that people were great, my body,

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Speaker 1: I felt my body and I was like, oh shit,

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Speaker 1: I'm ten steps. I was trying to relax.

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Speaker 2: Myself traumatic response breathe.

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Speaker 1: So that means everyone else, other people may have been

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Speaker 1: in the dentists that they getting clean. I was getting

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Speaker 1: a cleaning. I wasn't getting anything. I was done. It

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Speaker 1: was a cleaning, but the noise of the machine, all

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Speaker 1: that stuff, I felt my body of respond. So that

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Speaker 1: was that's trauma for me, but isn't necessarily trauma for

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Speaker 1: the other patients depending on their backgrounds at all.

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Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, Okay, So that's how we are defining trauma

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Speaker 2: like it's not it's how our body is responding to

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Speaker 2: a particular situation an event. Maybe even a person mm

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Speaker 2: that it perceives as dangerous.

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Speaker 1: So John, that makes me want to be more compassionate

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Speaker 1: or thinks it makes me think about the fact that

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Speaker 1: we should probably be compassionate when people are expressing the

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Speaker 1: fact that they've experienced the traumatic experience that may not

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Speaker 1: seem traumatic to us, or it's like, oh, this happens

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Speaker 1: to being like girl, you fell off your bike, how

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Speaker 1: is that traumatic? But it's like you don't know the backstory,

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Speaker 1: you don't know the history, you don't know how that

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Speaker 1: impacted that person's body. So just having more empathy for

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Speaker 1: everyone's experience. Okay, I like how we slow walking into it,

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Speaker 1: thank you?

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And so then we want to think about

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Speaker 2: and so one thing that we didn't talk about, like

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Speaker 2: as we were fleshing out the episode, is what you

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Speaker 2: just talked about in terms of a trauma response. So

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Speaker 2: a trauma response is your when your body is queued

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Speaker 2: into what people often refer to as a trigger. Right,

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Speaker 2: So I'm gonna slow it down even more. Trigger is

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Speaker 2: the activating thing, right, And it can look it will

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Speaker 2: look different for different people depending on the scenario, Right,

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Speaker 2: depending on the trauma that they've experienced. And so for you,

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Speaker 2: if we break down that situation with the dentist, you

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Speaker 2: experienced trauma at some point in childhood at the dentist office,

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Speaker 2: and then there were particular stimuli in that environment that

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Speaker 2: your body stored, your brain stored in its memory associated

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Speaker 2: with that trauma, right, And so then what happens is

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Speaker 2: you get to the dentist office and you hear the

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Speaker 2: buzzing right or you feel that dentist share because dentist

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Speaker 2: shairs have a different field than any other chairs you

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Speaker 2: sit in, right, And those are what people commonly refer

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Speaker 2: to as triggers. It's the activating stimuli that sends the

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Speaker 2: message to your brain danger, danger, danger. And so now

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Speaker 2: your body response and that and what your body does

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Speaker 2: is referred to as the trauma response. Sometimes our trauma

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Speaker 2: responses are not healthy or not appropriate, but they are

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Speaker 2: done in an effort to protect us, because what our

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Speaker 2: body does constantly is protect us. Anything that it's doing

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Speaker 2: is in the effort to protect us.

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Speaker 1: Can we talk about really quickly, what is an example

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Speaker 1: of an unhealthy trauma response? And then you say inappropriate

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Speaker 1: as well? Right, inappropriate and unhealthy? Okay, what would those

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Speaker 1: two examples be?

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Speaker 2: So let's say that your response because we're going to

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Speaker 2: go with a dent example, and I think also, and

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Speaker 2: so one, thank you for sharing that, and two it's

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Speaker 2: I like using I like using that example because it's

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Speaker 2: easier for folks to sit with.

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Speaker 1: Okay, because I want to be clear that the traumas

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Speaker 1: that we have experienced.

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Speaker 2: In our lives, the activating events that have led to traumas,

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Speaker 2: are hard to sit with. And so, lady, as you're listening,

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Speaker 2: make sure you're taking care of yourself. If even hearing

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Speaker 2: the word trauma is activating for you, do step inside

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Speaker 2: your self care toolbox and do what you need to

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Speaker 2: do to take care of yourself. So let's say for

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Speaker 2: you that if we go back to that time in childhood, right,

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Speaker 2: and what your body new to protect your self was

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Speaker 2: to lash out, to physically lash out, so and physically

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Speaker 2: lashing out meant that you kick the dentist, right, So

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Speaker 2: that's your trauma response. So now you go as a

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Speaker 2: grown person, you and you like you're a grown person,

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Speaker 2: you haven't fully identified how to work through that particular trauma.

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Speaker 2: And so now whenever that whenever your body or your

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Speaker 2: brain senses that activating event or activating stimuli, your response

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Speaker 2: is to kick or to hit you, right, mm hmm,

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Speaker 2: Well that's not healthy because you know what's gonna happen.

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Speaker 2: You're gonna end up kicking or hitting your dentists and

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Speaker 2: then they're gonna be like Nazi, we can't see you today.

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Speaker 2: We need to figure out what to do to keep

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Speaker 2: you calm okay, right, But that's your body's way of

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Speaker 2: protecting itself because it's sense is danger.

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Speaker 1: Interesting. Yeah, it's just as you say that two right,

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Speaker 1: it makes me think about people that I've known who

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Speaker 1: have had I didn't necessarily have language for it. I

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Speaker 1: want to go back to something you said to you

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Speaker 1: earlier about why this is important. It's really important to

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Speaker 1: have the correct language so that when you all go

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Speaker 1: into therapy, for instance, and you're explaining something that you're

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Speaker 1: a therapist, you can be on the same page and

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Speaker 1: have a shared understanding so that when you're using certain terms,

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Speaker 1: or if you're even speaking to someone else like you're

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Speaker 1: just you have that shared language. So that kind of

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Speaker 1: reminds me of what you said earlier. But the other

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Speaker 1: thing was witnessing people who would like fight a lot,

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Speaker 1: who were violent, and it wasn't that it was like

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Speaker 1: this isolated incident. It was more so like you were saying,

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Speaker 1: it was a trauma response. So when something happened, they

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Speaker 1: got heated, they just like you said, lashed out. So

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Speaker 1: I'm connecting the dots as you're sharing this, I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it makes sense why this person I know would act

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Speaker 1: this way because it's not that they just want to

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Speaker 1: be mean, like this is a this is an ingrained

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Speaker 1: behavior that they've been doing for so long. So it's

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Speaker 1: the pattern. Okay, I got it. So we talked about

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Speaker 1: unhealthy and inappropriate trauma.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so think about it. Think about it like this,

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Speaker 2: Like your trauma responses are typically that fight, flight, or freeze, right,

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Speaker 2: And so for you, let's and the example that I

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Speaker 2: gave and with you in a dentist chair of you

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Speaker 2: kicking out or you lashing out, that's the fight, right.

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Speaker 2: Some people in that dentist chair, they get that trigger

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Speaker 2: and they're up and out of there. They're like, I'm

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Speaker 2: not here for this. That's the flight. Some people get

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Speaker 2: completely still and numb, so that's the freeze. Another term

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Speaker 2: is faun right, and so people might faint, people might

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Speaker 2: get startled or fright experienced fright, and so there are

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Speaker 2: lots of different ways in which so typically it's how

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Speaker 2: we respond right and fight, flight freeze are the ones

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Speaker 2: that we're most most likely to know, right, And so

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Speaker 2: it's it's about being aware of what your response is

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Speaker 2: in those moments. But let's talk about trauma bonding, Okay.

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Speaker 2: I want to be clear on what it is, because

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Speaker 2: we are frequently misusing the term. Trauma bonding is a

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Speaker 2: relationship that is exploitative in nature, in which the person

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Speaker 2: without the power forms an emotional attachment to the person

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Speaker 2: who is causing them harm. So it's similar to or

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Speaker 2: essentially what people have previously called or some people might

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Speaker 2: refer to as Stockholm syndrome. Right, And if you haven't

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Speaker 2: heard of Stockholm syndrome, Stockholm syndrome is essentially it was

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Speaker 2: a term that was used to explain why hostages some

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Speaker 2: times developed a psychological bond or positive emotional attachment to

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Speaker 2: the people who were holding them hostage. Okay, And so

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Speaker 2: it has then been applied to kidnappings and other forms

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Speaker 2: of abusive relationships. And so essentially, trauma bonding is when

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Speaker 2: we have that emotional like you develop this emotional attachment

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Speaker 2: and oftentimes, again, it's a positive emotional attachment to the

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Speaker 2: person who is causing you harm. And to be clear,

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Speaker 2: the person who is causing you harm is someone who

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Speaker 2: has power or there's perceived power over you.

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Speaker 1: Question. Go ahead, before we go into should we go

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Speaker 1: into examples of trauma bonding after we talk about what

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Speaker 1: trauma bonding is not? Okay, So I had a couple examples,

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Speaker 1: I want to throw it to Okay, I'll wait.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yes, okay, what trauma bonding is not? And this

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Speaker 2: is where this is what people are confusing it with. Okay,

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Speaker 2: people in current lexicon are saying not even lexicon, people

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Speaker 2: out there on the streets are saying that trauma bonding

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Speaker 2: is two people or a group of people who become

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Speaker 2: connected through a share traumatic experience. I'm gonna say that

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Speaker 2: again because I get it. I understand people often say

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Speaker 2: that trauma bonding is when two people or a group

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Speaker 2: of people become connected through a shared traumatic experience. This happens, Yes,

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Speaker 2: I want to be clear, Yes, this does happen. However,

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Speaker 2: that is not trauma bonding.

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Speaker 1: Girl, that's deep. Go ahead, Okay, So a couple of

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Speaker 1: things one I just knew back in the day when

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Speaker 1: I was talking to this guy and we both had

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Speaker 1: some of the same traumas with our family and prison

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Speaker 1: being involved and violence and aside, I just knew because

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Speaker 1: we connected and we connected on those particular situations, like, Oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is trauma bonding. That's what we're doing. It sounds

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Speaker 1: like it when you put the words together, but that

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Speaker 1: ain't it. So I appreciate the clarity. So, while you

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Speaker 1: can connect with people around a traumatic experience, that is

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Speaker 1: not the definition of trauma bonding. Got it?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Is now when we go back to trauma bonding a

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Speaker 1: couple examples. One so, growing up, and I've talked about

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Speaker 1: this on the podcast. Right, growing up, my mom was

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Speaker 1: physically and my mom was physically and verbally abusive, right.

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Speaker 1: And the thing about it is something that my siblings

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Speaker 1: and I often talked about is how she can be

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Speaker 1: such an amazing person and like have good energy and

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Speaker 1: be so like kind and loving, and we would get

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Speaker 1: that part of her, but then something would switch and

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Speaker 1: then we get this whole other person. And so it

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Speaker 1: kind of be this cycle of like, well, I don't

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Speaker 1: know how she's gonna respond, I don't know how she's

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Speaker 1: going to show up today, that is trauma bonding.

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Speaker 2: So the trauma bonding really is what makes it trauma

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Speaker 2: bonding is wanting to stay in that dynamic, yes, right, like, okay,

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Speaker 2: you staying in that dynamic when it's when there is

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Speaker 2: it's exploitative, right, there's an abusive power in that involved

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Speaker 2: in that dynamic, gotcha?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

436
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 2: Right, So her being able to be this amazing person,

437
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 2: this charismatic person outside of the home or even with it,

438
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 2: even when engaging with you, all right, Right, that's not

439
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 2: the part of the trauma bonding. Okay. The part that

440
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 2: makes it the trauma bonding is that it's exploitative. So

441
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 2: the relationship is set up so that you don't feel

442
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 2: like you can leave for sure, and so in order

443
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 2: to survive, you become attached to and connect it to

444
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 2: this person.

445
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: Okay. That explains it down. Because I was gonna says

446
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: as a child, it's hard to like leave a situation

447
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: like that. But when I was an adult and the

448
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: third pattern continued, it was very hard for me to

449
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 1: go no contact with my mom because one, she's my mom,

450
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: but also the good the good times were so good,

451
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: and I was saying, I want more of those good times.

452
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: I don't really want the bad, but like I'll tolerate

453
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: it because but now it's like no context, so that

454
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: trauma bond is not there. That's one example. Another example

455
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: is of a past relationship where again the guy was like,

456
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: had great qualities and could be kind, but then there

457
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: was a case you know, mental and emotional abuse, and

458
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 1: then I was going back and forth and trying to

459
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: figure out how do I leave? It was very difficult

460
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: to leave that relationship. That would also be a trauma bond. Yes, okay, yes, okay.

461
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 2: So the thing is the thing to remember is that

462
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 2: a trauma bond is not gonna be it's not healthy, right,

463
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 2: And so you'll see things like in terms of like

464
00:33:55,760 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 2: a romantic relationship, you'll see things like love bombing, right,

465
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 2: And but then what follows that is this person is

466
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 2: setting themselves up so that they feel that they have

467
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 2: like so that you feel that they have so much

468
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 2: power over you that you cannot make decisions on your own,

469
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 2: and that they're setting it up so that you don't

470
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 2: feel like you can leave. And so there's the thing

471
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 2: with the trauma bonding is that there's going to be

472
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:44,399
Speaker 2: abuse involved. But part of that abuse in that manipulation

473
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 2: is that you like setting it up so that you

474
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 2: have to become attached to this person.

475
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: Okay, don As you say that, I don't know. I'm

476
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 1: trying to lady. We're trying to make sure that we

477
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: flow in like a certain like a you know, an

478
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: organized fashion. But as you said that, it brought up

479
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: a couple of things. I want to give an example.

480
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: So when you say they set it up so that

481
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: you can be dependent, I'm thinking about myself, you know,

482
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: raised to be this strong, independent black woman, found myself

483
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: in a situation, as I said, the previous relationship where

484
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: everything was great in the beginning, honeymoon phase, love bombing,

485
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,959
Speaker 1: all that stuff. Then something changed. And when you say,

486
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 1: try to make you dependent on them or I can't leave,

487
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:26,359
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about scenarios where the person will either sort

488
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: of infuse themselves in your life in a way where

489
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 1: they are you know, let me just get it, whether

490
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: like paying a certain bill or like paying certain bills

491
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: for you other now they have an important role of power,

492
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 1: or now they're infused into your daily routines, like the

493
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 1: morning calls that you have or the morning text that's

494
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: what gives you the fire during the day, and like

495
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: you let them know, like, oh, I'm so excited, Like

496
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: I feel like my day's going to be great when

497
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 1: you do this in the morning, so that it sounds

498
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: very strategic and like this sounds so evil to like

499
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: do this to people, but I know people do it.

500
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: So they're setting it up so that you are now

501
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: dependent upon them what they provide. The later they can

502
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: kind of use that for manipulation and take it away

503
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: as they choose, or impact your day negatively because like,

504
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 1: oh am I going to center that text? Or am

505
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,399
Speaker 1: I going to have that phone call? Stuff like that.

506
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,320
Speaker 1: M okay, I'm.

507
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 2: Thinking mm hmm. And the thing is is that I

508
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:33,280
Speaker 2: think where people get it confused is that trauma bonds

509
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:40,720
Speaker 2: are typically typically they're shared. It's a shared experience, right,

510
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 2: And so that's why people get it confused.

511
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: What do you mean when you say in terms of.

512
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 2: How they define trauma bonding, right, Because it's a shared experience.

513
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 2: So if we talk about trauma bondings in terms of

514
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 2: where where we're most likely to see it occurring in

515
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 2: a romantic relationship or a childhood relationship, right, But people

516
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 2: are often using it in terms of like maybe a

517
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 2: romantic relationship. So, yes, there is trauma bonding in the

518
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 2: romantic relationship, but the two of you did not form

519
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:19,919
Speaker 2: over a shared trauma Like you both experienced a car

520
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,919
Speaker 2: accident together, right, Like you both were in the same

521
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 2: car accident, and now you're bonded because of that trauma.

522
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 2: That's not trauma bonding, right. Or the example that you

523
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 2: gave around meeting someone who is who is also has

524
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 2: a similar childhood background and you're connecting over the shared

525
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 2: traumas that you've experienced, that's not trauma bonding. You are

526
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 2: connecting over shared traumatic experiences, but that's not trauma bonding, gotcha.

527
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 2: The trauma bonding between two people in a relationship is

528
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 2: because one person is experiencing the trauma the other person

529
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 2: is m gotcha, right, And so it becomes this push

530
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 2: pull cycle, And that's where the bonding is occurring, right,

531
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 2: because there's it's this attachment that Okay, I like, I'm

532
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 2: gonna push back, but this person is gonna find a

533
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,840
Speaker 2: way to pull me back in and they're constantly pulling

534
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 2: me back in.

535
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: Right, Well, how do these trauma bonds originate? Like where

536
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 1: does does are there certain experiences that one might have

537
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 1: in life that kind of makes you more susceptible to

538
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 1: experience a trauma bond.

539
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's think about your childhood m hm. Right, So,

540
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 2: and I say your childhood meaning the overarching child, people's.

541
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 1: Child, because I was like, well, okay.

542
00:38:55,080 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 2: And so typically so, so if as a child you

543
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 2: experienced conditions of worth, right, So, you were made to

544
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 2: feel that you were not worthy, you were not lovable,

545
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 2: you were not whatever, filling the blank. If you did

546
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:19,879
Speaker 2: not do fill in the blank, right, then you're more

547
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 2: susceptible to a trauma, you know, being one being in

548
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 2: an abusive relationship to experiencing a trauma bon right. So

549
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 2: I also want to be clear that a trauma bond

550
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:38,760
Speaker 2: is going to occur because there's an abusive relationship happening first, right,

551
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 2: And so then if also if you were in an

552
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 2: experience as a child where your reality was constantly denied.

553
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 2: So in some instances, that could be gaslighting. Right. So,

554
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 2: as a child, you're being abused by somebody in your

555
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 2: life and they find a way to rationalize it or

556
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 2: outright deny that they're abusing you as a kid, as adults,

557
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 2: we are susceptible to gaslighting. As a kid, you are

558
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 2: even more vulnerable to that experience because as a kid,

559
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 2: you are geared to trust the adults around you. And

560
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 2: so if you have an adult who is abusing you

561
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 2: and they tell you I did it because I love you,

562
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 2: m M, or that wasn't that bad, it could have

563
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 2: been worse. So now, as a child, the reality that

564
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 2: you're forming is you can't trust your own self, right,

565
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 2: because what happens then is initially your intuition is telling you.

566
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 2: As a kid, your intuition is saying no, this is

567
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 2: bad because our body is experiencing it as trauma. And

568
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:43,720
Speaker 2: the message our body is receiving is that this is bad.

569
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 2: But the person who's abusing us is then telling us

570
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 2: it's not that bad. So now your body and your

571
00:41:55,719 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 2: reality what people are telling you are in conflict, and

572
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,879
Speaker 2: so now you don't know who to trust. Now you're

573
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 2: being conditioned to not trust your own body. Kids who

574
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 2: are invalidated, So you tell your mom, mom, that hurt

575
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 2: my feelings. I don't care about your feelings. Your feelings

576
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:48,280
Speaker 2: don't matter. Suck it up, you'll be fine. Boys, don't cry.

577
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 2: You don't have anything to be angry about. All of

578
00:42:54,239 --> 00:43:01,919
Speaker 2: that invalidation sends the ma to you that your feelings

579
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 2: don't matter, that your feelings are not important your to

580
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 2: anybody around you, or even yourself. So, as an adult,

581
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 2: when you have feelings and you get into a relationship

582
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 2: that becomes abusive or is headed in the direction of

583
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 2: being abusive, you feel angry, you feel sad, anything outside

584
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 2: of what is considered positive emotions. And sometimes even then,

585
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 2: because you're not allowed to be too happy either, you

586
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 2: squash whatever feelings you have and you prioritize that of

587
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:49,760
Speaker 2: the other person.

588
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: Or a time, you know what, that made me think

589
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: about it as well? What if you do feel those feelings.

590
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 1: So you're in that relationship and you're like, oh, I'm

591
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 1: being abused, I'm feeling neglected, I'm you know, I'm experiencing

592
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: all these negative things. And because it's familiar, it's what

593
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 1: you're used to, then you're comfortable.

594
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 2: Exactly, so you're more likely to stay.

595
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 1: Yes.

596
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:20,760
Speaker 2: Right, so, you you're dealing with conditions of worth, your

597
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 2: childhood reality being denied, feelings being invalidated, or maybe you

598
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 2: experience some level of betrayal. Right, so someone who was

599
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 2: supposed to show up for you and they didn't, right,

600
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 2: or your parents abusing you that's a form of betrayal,

601
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 2: and they don't acknowledge it and they don't apologize for it. Right, So,

602
00:44:55,280 --> 00:45:05,720
Speaker 2: all of those things make you more susceptible to find

603
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 2: yourself in a trauma bonding relationship because also you have

604
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 2: unless you've done the work to heal from that. Right. So,

605
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 2: if you've experienced those things in childhood, if you don't

606
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 2: do the work to one recognize that those are the

607
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 2: things that you experienced and recognize that those things are

608
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 2: not signs of healthy, loving relationships, then you are more likely,

609
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:46,800
Speaker 2: like you said, to find yourself in an adult relationship

610
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 2: with someone who's repeating those same patterns.

611
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: Don I just gonna take a quick pause. We covered

612
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: a lot so far, and I think we did a

613
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 1: deep dive into trauma and I'm a bonding which has

614
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: been so helpful lady. Hopefully it's been helpful for you

615
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 1: as a listener. It's been helpful for me as well.

616
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: And I know we're going to talk about next are

617
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:12,280
Speaker 1: signs of trauma bonding. So, lady, if you are wondering

618
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 1: right now as you're listening, or maybe you've already got

619
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: you got the hint, you're like, I wonder if this

620
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: relationship I'm experienced, like, is this a trauma bond? We're

621
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 1: going to share that with you in addition to ways

622
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 1: to end the trauma bond. I do want to say, Dom,

623
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 1: as we're going through this stuff, I feel like a

624
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: lot of times we talk about these tough topics, a

625
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 1: lot of them relate to my life because of the

626
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: things I've experienced. But I think the silver lining and

627
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,919
Speaker 1: the positive is that even though you may have come

628
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,240
Speaker 1: from certain situations, it doesn't mean that has to define

629
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: your reality and where you are who you are today.

630
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 1: So as you're reading off like oh, based on this

631
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 1: and childhood, I'm like, yeah, check experience that. But the

632
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 1: good thing is we can still we can still heal,

633
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 1: we can end the trauma bonds, and there's hope. So

634
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: I'm grateful for lady you as you listen, but I'm

635
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 1: excited for the topic. So thank you, Dom for your expertise.

636
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 1: What are the signs of trauma bonding if someone might

637
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:03,720
Speaker 1: be experiencing them right now?

638
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, lady, if you find yourself in a situation,

639
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 2: and I want to be clear that it's also not

640
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:14,919
Speaker 2: just necessarily it's not limited to romantic relationships. Right. So, again,

641
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 2: a trauma bonded relationship. The key thing in there is

642
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 2: that it's an exploitative relationship. So that can happen in

643
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 2: the workplace. It can also happen in a religious setting

644
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 2: as well. So yeah, and so I want us to

645
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:36,359
Speaker 2: think about the childhood experiences that we mentioned. If you

646
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 2: find yourself in a space where you are justifying and

647
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 2: defending the abuse and the abuser, if you find yourself

648
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:59,320
Speaker 2: isolated from your support system, if you feel like there's

649
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 2: a power imbalance in a romantic relationship, there should not

650
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 2: be a power imbalance. I don't care how you look

651
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 2: at relationships, because I know that there's like a lot

652
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 2: of conversation around submission, particularly in heterosexual Christian relationships. I

653
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 2: want to be clear that there is still power on

654
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 2: both sides and a healthy relationship. There are still ways

655
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 2: in which women hold power in those heterosexual I'm going

656
00:48:53,960 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 2: to be submissive to my husband relationships. But if you

657
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 2: find out that is not the case for you, then

658
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 2: you may want to step back and look at the

659
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 2: overall relationship dynamic. But then I also want to point

660
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 2: out the cycle of abuse. Right, So what tends to

661
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:22,879
Speaker 2: happen is it starts off with love bombing. So this

662
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 2: person finds you and you are the best things since

663
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 2: sliced bread. You are the earth, the moon, and the stars.

664
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 2: They give you any and everything that you ask. Everything

665
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 2: feels amazing, like better than amazing. It feels almost too

666
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 2: good to be true. And lady, if it's feeling too

667
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 2: good to be true, then it probably is. So then

668
00:49:54,719 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 2: after that, once they've got you with the through love bombing,

669
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 2: then they move into trust and dependency. And so what

670
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 2: that looks like is they will find ways to gain

671
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:31,399
Speaker 2: your trust and make you dependent on them. So they

672
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 2: will find that level of insecurity and they will use

673
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 2: it to get you dependent on them. Oftentimes it might

674
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 2: be financial. Oh you're in a tough financial bind, or

675
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 2: maybe you're not even in a tough financial bind. You

676
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 2: want a certain quality of life that I can provide

677
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 2: that for you. And so now you've gotten accustomed to

678
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 2: all those things, dependent actually on all those things that

679
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 2: they are providing. And then they start the criticism. So

680
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,240
Speaker 2: they find ways to make you feel bad about yourself.

681
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 2: You put on five pounds, I don't think you're as

682
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 2: attractive as you.

683
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 1: Used to be.

684
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 2: You wearing that outside, I don't know about that, right,

685
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 2: that's what your hair looks like. I don't know if

686
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 2: I would have paid the hairdresser for that. Where's my

687
00:51:53,600 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 2: money really going? Then the gas lighting, because at some

688
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 2: point you recognize you're like, your gut is telling you,

689
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:22,240
Speaker 2: your intuition is saying, and hold up, this ain't it? Boom,

690
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 2: and he does some things that might be inconsistent, and

691
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 2: then you call him on it. No, that's not what

692
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 2: you saw. What's wrong with you? You've been hanging around

693
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:48,239
Speaker 2: so and so too long. They turning you, that's not

694
00:52:48,360 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 2: what happened. Then they get you addicted. So, because now

695
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 2: you don't want the criticism and you don't want to

696
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 2: be seen as the crazy one, you start doing the

697
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 2: things that they tell you to do, and they give

698
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:16,760
Speaker 2: you praise for it or they shower you with gifts.

699
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 1: So addicted to the cycle.

700
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 2: Mm hmmmm. So now you're like, Okay, well wait, I

701
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:33,319
Speaker 2: know that he's gonna call me crazy today, but he's

702
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 2: gonna apologize tomorrow, and we're gonna take an amazing trip

703
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 2: somewhere and I like taking trips, and so now you

704
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 2: you want that. You want that trip, so you're gonna

705
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 2: put up with that cycle, right, and now at this

706
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:53,880
Speaker 2: point you've lost your sense of self. You don't know

707
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:57,920
Speaker 2: who you are anymore. You're not the same person that

708
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 2: you were when you started this relationship. And at this

709
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 2: point you were also so defeated that you give in.

710
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: And don don't add children to the mix, or you know,

711
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 1: if you done left your job because they say, oh,

712
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:23,719
Speaker 1: you don't need to work, I'll take care of you.

713
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 1: So now they have all the power and control and influence.

714
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:31,319
Speaker 1: I'm just sending a lady all like, so much love

715
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 1: and good energy to anyone experiencing that right now, and

716
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 1: just know that there are others who have been able

717
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:39,840
Speaker 1: to safely leave an exit, and we believe that you

718
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:41,640
Speaker 1: can do the same. But so much love, because I'm

719
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: just having like flashbacks of certain situations and it's just

720
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:48,240
Speaker 1: such a it feels sometimes impossible to be able to

721
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 1: cut those ties, you know, but we can do it.

722
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 1: You know you can.

723
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 2: We definitely can. And I think, you know, I have

724
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 2: a lot of empathy because I understand how hard it

725
00:54:59,880 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 2: is to leave those situations, particularly if initially you weren't

726
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 2: even aware that that's what you were engaging in, right,

727
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 2: and if you haven't healed your childhood experiences, then you're

728
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 2: going to continue to repeat the same You're going to

729
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 2: find yourself engaging in similar patterns with people in your life.

730
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:29,879
Speaker 2: So even if it's not a romantic relationship, you will

731
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 2: find yourself recreating that cycle from childhood at work or

732
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:42,239
Speaker 2: maybe with friends and so, and that's one that we

733
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 2: that's a relationship that we often don't talk about our

734
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 2: abuse of friendships. Yes, that's a whole other episode. That's

735
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:52,920
Speaker 2: a whole other episode that we dive into. Yes, but

736
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:58,480
Speaker 2: when you are ready to leave, we have a few

737
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 2: tips on how to make that happen. So one, if

738
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 2: you're in an abusive relationship, you want to make a

739
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:11,799
Speaker 2: safe exit plan, particularly also their children involved, and so

740
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 2: that might involve working with a local domestic violence resource center.

741
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 2: Usually they are those resources are kind of difficult to

742
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 2: find on purpose to keep abusers from finding the people

743
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 2: that they've been abusing. But if you reach out to

744
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 2: the DOSIC, the National Domestic Violence Hotline, they can definitely

745
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:47,280
Speaker 2: connect you with resources in your area.

746
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 1: And Tom, I just want to add a two cents

747
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:54,279
Speaker 1: for this particular point. One that you do not owe

748
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 1: your abuser closure or notice like you know your situational best, right, lad,

749
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:01,279
Speaker 1: So use your judgment and go with your gut and

750
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 1: pray for guidance right from whatever source you believe in.

751
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:08,440
Speaker 1: But you don't owe them that because a lot of

752
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 1: times when you go, especially if they're a narcissist or

753
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 1: they are an abuser, right, the closure is just going

754
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:15,279
Speaker 1: to be a way to manipulate you back in and

755
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 1: do the whole cycle all over again. So if you

756
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 1: guys to leave in the night and if you have

757
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:24,080
Speaker 1: a safe plan, do what you gotta do. If they yeah,

758
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter, right. And also, forgiveness is not equal reconciliation.

759
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 1: So you can forgive the person, that does not mean

760
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 1: they get to come back into your life. That does

761
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 1: not mean that you need to interact with them on

762
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 1: a consistent basis. If you have kids, of course you

763
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 1: have to figure that out based on your situation. But

764
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 1: just because you forgive someone does not mean you need

765
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 1: to let them back in and have access to.

766
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 2: You, right Exactly, The next step is to break your silence.

767
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 2: So the key, the thing is the thing that keeps

768
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 2: those types of trauma bonding relationships going is that you're

769
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 2: not talking about it. You're not telling people what's really

770
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:05,000
Speaker 2: happening in that relationship dynamic or if you are, you're

771
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 2: in a space of defending that person, and so the

772
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 2: key is to break the silence, right to have the

773
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 2: have conversations, get support from the people around you. And

774
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 2: then the next thing is to set some boundaries, like

775
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 2: you get to decide how you want to engage with

776
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 2: that person. May or maybe it's you don't want to

777
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:45,920
Speaker 2: engage with that person and you but you get to decide,

778
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 2: you set you set the boundaries on how you want

779
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 2: to engage with them. And so maybe it might be

780
00:58:57,200 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 2: if you don't feel safe exiting, because I also, you know,

781
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:03,800
Speaker 2: going back to number one, there are times where you

782
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 2: are aware that you're trying to get out, but it's

783
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 2: not safe to get out right, and so it might

784
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 2: be setting some boundaries around these behaviors are okay, these

785
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 2: things are not and maybe communicating that to that person.

786
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:30,480
Speaker 2: The next thing though, is once you've actually major exit,

787
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 2: cut off contact. Cutting off contact helps break the cycle

788
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 2: because as long as you're in contact with that person,

789
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:45,840
Speaker 2: they will find a way to bring you back in,

790
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 2: and so you've got to cut off the contact, no

791
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 2: engagement with them at all. When you're like, Okay, no,

792
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:04,760
Speaker 2: I'm truly done. And then the last thing is to

793
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 2: seek professional help. You know, I'm always going to say

794
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 2: get some therapy, find a therapist, and in this situation,

795
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 2: therapy is really key to your healing.

796
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to add something really quick down before

797
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 1: we do recap and just say that I think something

798
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 1: that we can also do, Like, if you're not in

799
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 1: this situation right now, be on the lookout. Like when

800
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:37,920
Speaker 1: you are meeting people, pay attention to the yellow flags.

801
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how many times I've let the

802
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 1: yellow flags go and I'm just like, oh, now, everything

803
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 1: I see it's a seed. There's more to it. Right, So,

804
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:49,479
Speaker 1: if you see little behaegers, they're criticizing other people, they're

805
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 1: talking about certain people way in a certain way. Sometimes

806
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 1: you don't even have language for it. Listen to your body.

807
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:58,040
Speaker 1: How is a person making you feel? Like? What feelings

808
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 1: are coming up? Sometimes it's our intuition. And so, lady,

809
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to lead you to an episode, season seventeen,

810
01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 1: episode three. It's called what gas lighting, red flags and manipulations.

811
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,880
Speaker 1: Sound like, we're gonna give you examples of exactly what

812
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:14,120
Speaker 1: to look for when you're meeting new people, and you're

813
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 1: considering who you want to have in your space, in

814
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,440
Speaker 1: your life, in your bed. All that right, So go

815
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 1: tune into that episode and then we're going to do

816
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:23,920
Speaker 1: a requick recap and then I guess hop into the

817
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:27,560
Speaker 1: after show. Yes, yes, all right, lady. So here are

818
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 1: five ways to end a trauma bond. Number one, make

819
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:36,960
Speaker 1: a safe exit plan. Number two, break your silence, talk

820
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 1: about what's happening, talk about what you're experiencing with safe people.

821
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:46,640
Speaker 1: Number three, set boundaries. Number four cut off contact, and

822
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:49,600
Speaker 1: number five seek professional help.

823
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 2: And lady, if you or someone you know is in

824
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 2: a an abusive exploitative relationship, If it's on the romantic side,

825
01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 2: you can call the National Domestic Violence Hotline. If it's

826
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 2: something happening at work, seek out HR if they have it.

827
01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 2: If it's a friendship, let other friends know go through

828
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 2: these steps. But no, but also if it is a friendship,

829
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:39,439
Speaker 2: you can also call the National Domestic Violence Hotline because

830
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:45,280
Speaker 2: they do help with interpersonal violence, and so interpersonal is

831
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:53,040
Speaker 2: not just romantic relationships. So, lady, we hope that you

832
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:58,800
Speaker 2: took a lot away from this episode that we now

833
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:03,919
Speaker 2: understand what trauma bonding is what it is not and

834
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 2: how to get the help that you need if you

835
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:08,240
Speaker 2: find yourself experiencing that.

836
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:12,480
Speaker 1: All right, lady, thank you so much for tuning in.

837
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:14,960
Speaker 1: Domini are going to hop on over into the after

838
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 1: show to debrief and talk about real life stuff, a

839
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:20,560
Speaker 1: little bit of episode stuff, and so be sure to

840
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 1: head on over to Herspace podcast dot com. Click on

841
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 1: Patreon to join our patreon and become a patron, support

842
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:29,200
Speaker 1: the podcast and watch the episodes in tune into the

843
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:31,200
Speaker 1: after show. We will catch you on the other side.

844
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:35,760
Speaker 3: Lady, Hey lady, it's doctor dom here from the Cultivating

845
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:39,959
Speaker 3: Herspace Podcast. Are you currently a resident of the state

846
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:45,400
Speaker 3: of California and contemplating starting your therapy journey? Well, if so,

847
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:50,440
Speaker 3: please reach out to me at doctor Dominique Brusard dot com.

848
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:55,760
Speaker 3: That's d R D O M I N I q

849
01:03:56,080 --> 01:04:02,400
Speaker 3: U E B R O U SSA dot com to

850
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:06,800
Speaker 3: schedule a free fifteen minute consultation. I look forward to

851
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 3: hearing from you. Thanks for joining us today. Please note

852
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:17,520
Speaker 3: that our show may contain conversations about self help, advice,

853
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 3: self empowerment, and mental health, but is by no means

854
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:26,480
Speaker 3: meant to be a substitute for an ongoing formal relationship

855
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 3: with a trained mental health provider. If you are someone

856
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:33,720
Speaker 3: you know is in need of mental health care, please

857
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:38,960
Speaker 3: visit a Therapy for Black Girls directory Psychology today or

858
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:40,640
Speaker 3: contact your insurance provider.

859
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 1: If you liked what you heard and want to keep

860
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:46,400
Speaker 1: the conversation going, visit our website at herspace podcast dot

861
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 1: com and be sure to click the Patreon link to

862
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:52,720
Speaker 1: get access to video content, bonuses, and our weekly after

863
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:56,800
Speaker 1: show and before we meet again, repeat after me. My

864
01:04:57,120 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 1: energy is a gift I choose to share wisely and

865
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Speaker 1: leave a positive imprint on the world.