WEBVTT - #552 Lauren Bright Pacheco with Robert Bintz 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.960 This episode of Wrongful Conviction contains discussion of sexual assault. 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:06.000 Please listen with caution and care. 0:00:09.400 --> 0:00:12.320 At five a m. On August third, nineteen eighty seven, 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:16.120 at the Good Times Tavern in Green Bay, Wisconsin, the 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:20.000 opening bartender discovered that the lights were still on, the 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:24.320 safe was open and empty, and the previous night's bartender, 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:27.880 Sandra Lyson, her car was still in the parking lot. 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:31.880 The following day, her body was discovered in a forest 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:35.120 about thirty miles north of Green Bay. She had been 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:39.080 fatally strangled, and seamen was collected in a rape kit. 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:42.680 Investigators interviewed people who had gone to the tavern that night, 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:45.720 including thirty one year old Bobby Bentz along with his 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:49.240 brother David. The case went cold for nearly twelve years 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:52.200 until David Bentz was in prison for an unrelated crime 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:56.160 and allegedly confessed to a cellmate that he'd killed Sandra 0:00:56.240 --> 0:01:06.760 Lyson with his brother Bobby. This is wrongful Conviction. The 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:10.320 Fox Foundation is proud to support this episode of wrongful 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:14.240 Conviction and the work of After Innocence, a nonprofit that 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:18.160 helps hundreds of people nationwide rebuild their lives after wrongful 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:22.760 incarceration each year. Innocent people are released after spending years 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:26.319 behind bars for crimes they didn't commit. Nearly all of 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:28.880 them leave prison with nothing more than the clothes on 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:32.120 their backs, with no help or compensation from the state 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:35.399 as they face the steep challenges of rebuilding their lives 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:40.759 after wrongful imprisonment. After Innocence is changing that After Innocence 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:45.000 helps exoneries get and make good use of essential services 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:48.640 like health care, dental care, mental health support, legal aid, 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:53.320 financial counseling, and more. Since twenty sixteen, they've brought that 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:58.000 help to more than eight hundred exoneries across forty six states, 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:02.160 working tirelessly to ensure that no one released after wrongful 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:07.040 incarceration is left behind. Learn more at after dash innocence 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:11.040 dot org and join after Innocence to support exoneries as 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:23.919 they rebuild their lives. Welcome back to wrongful Conviction. I'm 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:28.120 Lauren Bright Pacheco, and this story takes us to Green Bay, Wisconsin, 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:31.639 where a bartending mother of two was tragically taken from 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:35.360 her children, while another mother lost two of her boys 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:40.040 to the system. And today Bobby Bent joins us, thank 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:40.840 you for being here. 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:41.919 You're welcome. 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:45.880 We also have this attorney from the Great North Innocence Project, 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:49.960 Jim Mayer. Welcome, thank you very much, and later we 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:53.240 will speak to his brother David as well. Now, Bobby, 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:55.880 you guys grew up in Green Bay, which is a 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:59.160 big sports town. Were you and your brother into sports. 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:02.080 When we were We all got together and played to 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:05.480 the ball around, football, baseball when we were kids. 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:07.920 Were you too competitive with one another? 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:10.600 Well, we're pretty close together a. 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:13.800 Year apart, right, yeah. And who's the big brother. 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:16.880 I got old brother Eddie too, David the oldest brother 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:18.960 of me, Lauren. 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:20.720 I was going to mention one thing if you wanted 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:24.359 some more filled in detail about their childhood. They did 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:27.040 live together on a farm, a foster home kind of 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:29.240 during their high school years, where they did a lot 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:31.000 of work on a farm. Is kind of interesting. 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:34.040 We would clean all the pens out and the gutter 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:36.640 and it was a rough childhood. 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:41.280 From what we understand. There were substance abuse issues at 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:43.800 home that resulted in the boys moving to foster care. 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:47.600 But by the time of this crime, Bobby was thirty 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:52.120 one years old and despite suffering from intellectual disabilities, both 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:54.040 Bobby and David were doing well. 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:57.040 I was an East Side of Green Bay, and I 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:00.360 worked at a grocery store. I'm a driver, legad my 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:04.320 own car. I always went to work. I was a 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:07.560 meat wrapper clerk. I cleaned the meat room up really good, 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:09.760 and my boss really enjoyed my work. I had to 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:11.320 adopt for ten years. 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:14.080 And what was David doing at the time. 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:17.640 Dave had a house on State Tree in Green Bay, 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:21.240 and he had a garage who worked on cars self employee. 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:24.920 He had an auto salvage business. I helped him to 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:27.560 pull motors out and put other motors in, clean them 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:30.160 out and junk them. And you sell cars to it. 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:31.400 I helped them all once a while. 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:33.599 So you guys both like cars. 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:35.039 Yeah, oh cars. 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:40.640 Now, the night that this happened, you guys had been 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:44.440 to the bar, which was called the Good Times Tavern 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:45.679 to buy beer. 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.080 I went and had a soda, and then I bought 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:50.920 a case of beer. I went back to David's Houston. 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:52.360 Then after that he went home. 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:54.880 And you were upset because you realized you may have 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:56.640 been overcharged for the beer. 0:04:57.040 --> 0:04:58.640 Davi was upset. 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:01.839 David believed that the bar's price for a case of 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:04.120 beer should have aligned more closely with that of a 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:07.400 typical retailer, so we called the Good Times Tavern to 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:12.200 voice his outrage, but nothing further. According to the other bargoers, 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:15.799 the closing bartender, Sandra Lison, kicked everyone out by about 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:19.640 two am. They also mentioned a stranger in a flannel's 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:22.960 shirt which seemed off due to the balmy August weather, 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:27.279 and then around five AM, a Good Times Tavern employee 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:30.160 named Robert Miller came in to get the day started. 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:33.040 The man who came in to clean the Good Times 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:36.440 Tavern in the morning noticed that something was wrong. The 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:39.800 Sunday night bartender Sandra Lyson. Her pack of cigarettes was 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:41.800 sitting on the bar, her car was still in the 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:45.120 parking lot. The tavern had not been locked and the 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:47.760 safe was opened, so clearly something had gone wrong, and 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:50.400 Sandra Lyson was nowhere to be seen, so he called the. 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:53.800 Police and then her body was found. 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:57.279 The body was found about forty eight hours later in 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:01.080 a wooded area in a state forest about thirty miles 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:02.400 or so north of Green Bay. 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:08.200 Curiously, the first responders reported not seeing any drag marks, 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:13.479 so perhaps the attack occurred somewhere else. Additionally, she was clothed, 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:17.719 but there were leaves and other debris inside her undergarments. 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.799 The medical examiner actually came out to investigate and examine 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:25.239 the body formed the conclusion that the victim had likely 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:28.839 been beaten and sexually assaulted and the cause of death 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:32.640 was strangulation. So a rape kit was performed. They took 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:36.480 samples and they did detect the presence of seamen, which 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:40.560 was recovered from the victim's leg and underclothing and dress, 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:42.120 and also from a vaginal swab. 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:46.120 Now I know that Bobby, you mentioned that David had 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:49.279 been upset about the cost of the beer from the 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:52.920 night before. So when did the police question you? 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:55.640 A couple of days later? This is where you at 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:58.400 the bar of the night you a mission. I remember 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:00.560 seeing her and the bar I've seen man, but I 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:01.520 remember seeing her. 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:04.960 Did you think anything else of it? No, we're not 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:08.240 sure what happened to any other leads that the police 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:11.800 were following, but the case went cold for about four years, 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:15.960 at which time sandra license purse was discovered in the 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:19.520 woods about ten miles south of Green Bay, so in 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:22.680 the opposite direction of where the body was discovered, and 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:25.760 who even knows when the purse was deposited there. And 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:30.000 then another seven years passed during which time David Bentce 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:34.119 was convicted of an unrelated crime and his cellmate Gary 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:38.120 Swinby alleged that David Bentce was saying disturbing things in 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:42.800 his sleep like quote, killed the bitch Bob unquote. 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:46.840 As you mentioned, this cellmate of David's came forward and 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:49.840 claimed that he'd been saying things in his sleep. The 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:53.880 staff at the prison encouraged the cellmate to engage David 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:57.160 in conversation when he woke up. This all leads to 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:01.680 the cellmate making a statement to and authorities indicating that 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:04.400 he says David had confessed to the crime and implicated 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:08.040 his brother Bobby as well. I think people who have 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:11.560 prior convictions are always an easier target for a wrongful conviction, 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:16.320 as are people who may have particular psychological or intellectual vulnerabilities. 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:19.160 You know, those people sometimes get preyed upon. They're not 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:22.320 able to defend themselves adequately, and they're at much greater 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:24.840 risk of a false confession, of a wrongful conviction, of 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:27.720 all kinds of bad outcomes in the criminal legal system. 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:31.680 David agreed to speak with us about his unrecorded interrogation 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:35.719 in which investigators confronted him with what his cellmate had 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:37.040 alleged this guy. 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:38.599 I think he thought he could get something out of it. 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:39.440 What staff. 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:42.719 I never talked to my sleep, never have. When a 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:45.959 tectives came and questioned me, as you said I could 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:51.120 get up any time of water, they said, I can 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:52.480 get up any time of wan. And I know I 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:54.920 was alive because they were going to be going till 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:57.040 they got a confession. I was in it room for 0:08:57.080 --> 0:08:57.760 seven hours. 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:01.320 You know, we know that best practic this is no 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:06.120 more than four hours should somebody be interrogated. And after 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:11.360 six hours the incidences of false confessions skyrocket. 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:12.560 They won't let me go. 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.319 So we know you did it. We know you did it. 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:18.160 So I said anything to get out of her. 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:21.000 We don't know one hundred percent because this was an 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:25.760 unrecorded interrogation. This was, from all accounts, an aggressive interrogation, 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:29.040 one that was designed to secure a confession to try 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:32.760 to solve this cold case. David says several times that 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:35.760 he was at home on the night Desander license disappears 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:37.800 that he didn't know what happened to her, But at 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:39.760 the same time, when they would confront him with the 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:42.400 statement from the cellmate, he would say things like you've 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:44.839 got it right there. It's in black and white. And 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.520 so it was sort of a conversation that started going 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:48.199 in circles. 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:52.120 So it wasn't a clearer confession that would. 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:54.240 Be putting it generously, but they made the decision that 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:57.280 that was close enough to a confession to focus once 0:09:57.320 --> 0:09:58.600 again on the Vince brothers. 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:17.199 Do you remember, Bobby, when you heard that your brother 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:20.079 had been accused of talking in his sleep and it 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:20.840 named you. 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:24.319 I remember people talking about it, but he never talks 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:25.000 in his sleep. 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:29.600 But now they have a false confession from David, and 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:33.359 then they go to you, Bobby, and say you're under arrest. 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:33.800 Yeah. 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:36.600 They rested me at my apartment. They said you're under 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:40.640 arrest for the murder of Sandral License. And I had 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:44.280 my girlfriend in my house too with me, and she's, honey, 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:47.040 no go, I said I have to, So you put 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:47.800 the couch on me. 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:50.800 What went through your head? Did you think that this 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:51.920 was some big mistake? 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:52.640 Yeah? 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:53.719 I was. 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:56.720 I was scared and upset. 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:02.040 And sometime between as a rest and trial, the state 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:05.400 found someone who was willing to claim they'd heard Bobby 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:06.480 confess as well. 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:08.359 That was Joan Andrews. 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:12.520 So this witness told the court in Bobby's trial that 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:14.360 she had been giving him a ride to go and 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:17.160 visit his mother up north in the direction of the 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:20.920 Upper Peninsula of Michigan, and that during that ride he 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:26.199 had somehow confessed to being involved in Sandra License murder. 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:29.120 Of course, what also came out at the trial, though 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:31.320 it didn't end up making any difference, was the fact 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:33.640 that his mother had never lived up in that area, 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:35.480 in fact, lived south of Green Bay. 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:39.920 If I'm not mistaken, yep, okay, So can you tell me, 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:45.000 Jim about the DNA evidence that they were aware of 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:47.640 before the brothers even were put on trial. 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:51.400 Well, as you can recall, in nineteen eighty seven, at 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:54.120 the time that the murder happened and the body was recovered, 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:57.560 DNA testing was not quite as advanced and widespread. And 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:00.120 then if we fast forward the twelve years to and 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:03.200 they are thinking about charging the Vince brothers, they realize 0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:06.160 we've got this rich source of DNA from the crime scene. 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:09.000 They get a search warrant to take samples from Bobby 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:12.920 and David to compare against the profile from the semen 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:15.600 left at the crime scene. And when they did that comparison, 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:20.400 both brothers were excluded as the source of the semen. 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:23.240 So of course they called off the trial and let 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:24.040 the brothers. 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:26.280 Go right, No, that we wouldn't be here if that 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:28.320 had happened. But of course they were at a crossroads. 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:30.760 Do we go with the physical evidence, which we know 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:34.600 is strongly indicative of a sexual assault and strongly suggesting 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:37.280 that the person whose bodily fluids are at the crime 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:40.640 scene is the person responsible. Or do they abandon that 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:43.760 and go after these two guys who have no connection 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:46.240 to the crime based on the physical evidence, and they 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:48.680 chose the latter. They chose to go after Bobby and David. 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:52.920 The state very strongly argued at both trials, this is 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:56.280 obviously not a sexual assault. This is simply a robbery 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:59.679 and a murder. Any previous thoughts that this may be 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:03.000 a sexual assault were pure speculation and not true. 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:07.000 Remember, the body was discovered clothed, but with leaves and 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:10.600 other debris in the undergarments, suggesting that the body was 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:15.840 likely unclothed outdoors. Then there was semen collected from her leg, 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:19.960 clothing and inside her body. So the theory was that 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:24.240 the sperm came from consensual sex that occurred prior to 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:28.560 her fourteen hour bartending shift, and that she simply let 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:32.160 the seamen just live on her leg and clothing. And 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:36.840 then they called experts to the stand to corroborate that theory. 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:40.360 They present a testimony from a couple of different experts 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:43.880 about when the semen would have been deposited based on 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:46.760 the condition they found it in, and what the medical 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:50.120 examiner said on the witness stand was this most likely 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:54.160 was deposited either after the death up to twenty four 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:57.360 hours after the death, most likely recent and what the 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:01.400 specific words were, seventy five percent likelihood that the sperm 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:04.120 was left there within twenty four hours of the death, 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:07.520 which makes it very implausible that this was a consensual 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:11.679 sexual encounter because she was working a twelve to fourteen 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:14.800 hour bartending shift right before this event. You know, she 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:16.800 got up in the morning, she went to a bartending shift, 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:19.080 and it was implausible enough that she would have had 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:21.840 this sexual encounter and not cleaned up or anything. But still, 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:26.320 even so, in the closing argument, the prosecutor twisted those 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:29.760 words around and said it was most likely between twenty 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:33.240 four and forty eight hours when it was deposited. At 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:35.440 least that's what he said at Bobby's trial, and so 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.080 I read that transcript and I just get angry. I 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:40.080 don't know that that made the difference, but it makes 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:43.280 you think that sometimes this is a game of inches 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:46.240 and prosecutors and everyone involved in the system needs to 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:49.680 be scrupulously honest when they're talking about the evidence. 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:54.680 Bobby, tell me about the trial from your perspective. 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:59.040 Well, when I went to court, I was really upset. 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.200 And the guy that said David talking and sleep, his 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:03.720 name was Gary Swenbee. 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:04.640 He got out. 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:07.880 I couldn't cross examine him because he got killed in 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:11.120 a car accident a month before my trial. I couldn't 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:14.720 cross examine a piece of paper, you know. So I 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:16.920 didn't get a fair trial in Green Bay at all. 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:20.560 All right, So take me to the moment of the 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:22.280 verdict guilty. 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:25.360 The judge said, I send you to the prison the 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:27.720 rest of your natural life. I just broke down in tears. 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:32.320 I just broke down, and the daughter stood up in court. 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:34.880 I said, I'm sorry for what happened, but I said, 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:51.880 I did not kill your mom. Well, it's really nasty 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.120 in there, and it's filthy, and the medical hsu A 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:59.320 health department is terrible. I went to the hospital almost 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:02.520 every week by resis squad from the prison. 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:04.960 I got asthma real bad. 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:09.360 Were you guys held anywhere near one another? 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:12.440 We're at Green Bay together for a few years. I 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:15.640 was in a dorm with Dave. You're so glad to 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:16.720 see me when I came in. 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:21.640 I mean, you know, a lot of people form relationships 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:26.360 like brothers when they're serving time together. But was it 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:28.920 somewhat of a comfort that you guys were in the 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:31.960 same place even though you were both living the same nightmare? 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:36.280 Yeah? 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:38.760 Did you guys think that it was just a matter 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:41.520 of time before they realized they had made a mistake? 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:45.520 Yeah, it took a few. 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:50.560 Years, fortunately for both of them. David's case was picked 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:54.560 up by the Wisconsin Innocence Project. After all, despite his 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:59.040 previous conviction, he too had been wrongfully convicted of this crime, 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:03.080 and there was biological evidence that could exonerate him and 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:07.000 his brother. They secured additional DNA testing in two thousand 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:07.359 and six. 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:11.480 Additional testing had shown that there was male blood on 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:14.840 the victim's dress, and the person who deposited the blood 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:18.440 on the victim's dress was the same person who deposited 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:22.480 the semen. So that really strongly supported the initial conclusion 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:25.479 that this was a sexual assault and that the person. 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:27.840 It sounds crazy that I even have to say it, 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:31.119 that most likely the man whose blood and semen was 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:34.119 on the crime scene was responsible for the crime. So 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:37.800 the Wisconsin Innocence Projects sought post conviction relief for David. 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:40.639 They tried to get his conviction tossed out, get him 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:44.320 a new trial. The state opposed relief for David. This 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:47.119 is just speculation to say that this man's blood and 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:50.800 semen on the victim are indicative of sexual assault. And 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:54.680 the court unfortunately agreed with the state, denied the motion 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:57.920 that was affirmed on appeal and the bench Brothers would 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:02.160 spend another fifteen years in prison after that decision was made. 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:06.840 That decision seems completely divorced from reality, and this was 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.840 obviously a major setback. How do you come up with 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:13.639 more convincing evidence than that, Well, that's what the Great 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:17.680 North Innocence Projects set out to do in twenty eighteen, and. 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:20.040 So we set out to test every piece of physical 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:24.359 evidence remaining at that crime scene, every bloodstain, every hair, 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:28.080 everything we could get a profile from, and nothing from 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:31.639 that crime scene of this supposedly very intimate physical crime. 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:35.399 Nothing from that scene connected either Bobby or David Bince 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:37.879 to the murder, but what we did see was the 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.680 same unknown male profile that kept coming up. 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:45.200 Since the unknown male profile cannot be identified in CODIS, 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:49.240 they tried another path. The lab was able to develop 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:52.560 a special kind of DNA profile, which can be used 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:57.520 to trace ancestry through public genealogical databases. They worked with 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:01.920 a genealogist going through birth, death and other public records 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:05.840 to close in on the origin of this profile. It 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:08.159 took almost five years. 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:12.199 After a long, long stretch of doing that work and 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:16.359 almost giving up, we finally were able to narrow the 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:19.800 search to one family that had three male children who 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:22.399 were all of suitable age and living in the Green 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:24.639 Bay area at the time of the crime. One of 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:27.880 those three was William Hendrix, and he immediately stood out 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:31.400 because of his past. He had prior convictions for sexual assault. 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:34.520 Their victim in that case said that he had threatened 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:36.800 to strangle her at some point, which, of course was 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:40.520 sandra License cause of death. He had just been released 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:44.080 from prison less than a year before Sandra Lyson was abducted. 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:47.800 We also know that he previously lived about thirty to 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.400 forty miles north of Green Bay, so that he would 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:53.280 have driven by that state forest where the body was 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:55.720 found many many times as he went back and forth 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:58.400 between that old place where he lived and Green Bay. 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:00.600 And at the time of the abduction, he lived in 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:02.520 the neighborhood of the Good Times Tavern. 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:06.560 But once they'd made this potential match, they needed to 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:11.720 compare the DNA profile with a sample from William Hendrix himself. However, 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:14.920 Hendrix had died in April of two thousand. 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:18.840 After securing a court order to exhume the body, it 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:22.280 was transported to the Brown County Medical Examiner's office and 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:25.000 samples were taken and then sent off to the lab 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:26.199 for DNA analysis. 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:27.560 And when they came back. 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:30.119 I'll never forget the day that they came back with 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:33.080 the results testing the femur that was taken from the 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:36.480 body and comparing it to the crime scene evidence, and 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:39.040 the number that was given to us by the Wisconsin 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:41.600 State Crime Lab was that this was a match with 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:45.160 a likelihood of one in three hundred and twenty nine trillion. 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:51.280 Beyond a doubt. How did you share the news with Bobby? 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:54.600 We called Bobby that day, and I'm looking at him 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:57.440 because I'm sure he remembers that phone call. He's smiling, 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:01.480 so blessed and we finally got the truth. And I 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:06.080 was really emotion on the phone. I chears in my 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:09.800 eyes and just emotional. I could hardly talk. We said, 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:11.720 we knew this was gonna be happen, but now it 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:14.440 finally has. You're gonna be able to go home soon. 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:17.119 It would just say happy, said feeling, But it's a 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:20.360 good feeling. I told the guys just keep your head 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:22.760 up and keep the faith. And one guy, she let 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:24.119 me give you a hug. And I know you're not 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:25.639 a gilt I told you from the get go. I 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:29.280 wouldn't hurt him fly, I would never kill anybody. Backed 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:31.720 myself and left everything behind and just grow up my 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:35.600 paperwork and all that stuff. And boy was I blessed 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:37.439 to have good attorneys out of Teat like you and 0:21:37.520 --> 0:21:38.520 Chris Well. 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:40.879 There's no better days than the day that someone like 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:42.960 Bobby walks out of prison and you can be there 0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:45.960 to enjoy it with him. And so it was, you know, 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:48.000 I think he said it best. It was happy, sad. 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:50.960 You're so pleased to see him free. You're so happy 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:53.840 to see him on the outside, but you're also struck 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:56.480 by the enormity of the loss and the suffering and 0:21:56.680 --> 0:21:58.399