WEBVTT - #518 Jason Flom with Jermaine Archer 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:05.680 On July twenty first, nineteen ninety seven, a young man 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.320 was fatally shot while being driven past a building in Brooklyn, 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:13.520 New York. The driver, Carlos Bethune, told police that he 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:17.080 hadn't seen the shooter, but later named a resident of 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:21.000 that building, Jermaine Archer, who ran for his life from Bethune, 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:26.279 the victim's family, and the police. In retaliation, Jermaine's brother 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:30.800 was shot but survived. Soon tensions cooled when the family 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:34.519 figured out who the actual shooter was, but the police 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:38.800 stayed stuck on Jermaine and Carlos Bethune went along for 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:50.880 the ride. This is Wrongful Conviction. You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:53.280 You can listen to this and all the Lava for 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:56.960 Good podcasts one week early and ad free by subscribing 0:00:57.000 --> 0:01:08.520 to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Welcome back 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:12.440 to Wrong for Conviction. Today's episode, well, let's just say 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:16.160 it features a man named Jermaine Archer, who I consider 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:18.840 a friend and a personal hero. And I'm so glad 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:20.800 to welcome you to the show, Jermaine, because this is 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:23.199 the story people need to hear. So first of all, 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:24.360 I'm glad you're here. 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:26.399 Thanks for coming, thanks for inviting me to the show. 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:28.280 And I want to shout out my attorney, Peter Cross, 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:30.360 who's here with me, who's been with me through the fire. 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:34.240 When a bunch of other people walked away, attorneys included Peter, 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:34.960 didn't go nowhere. 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:37.800 Peter stood here, worked with me pro bono. 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:40.240 He believed in me, he believed in my innocence, and 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:41.520 eventually he helped me. 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:43.679 Prove it well. I was about to introduce Peter, but 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:45.400 you did a much better job than I could have 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:48.320 possibly done. So thank you for that, and Peter, thanks 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:51.720 for coming on the show. My pleasure. Let's go back 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:56.120 in time, Jermaine. You grew up in Brooklyn. 0:01:56.120 --> 0:02:00.520 Brooklyn, New York, Massy Projects and then eventually Flatbush back it. 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:03.120 My childhood was great. I mean, we weren't rich by 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:06.960 any means. I'm the seventh of eleven or twelve, whoever 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:09.760 you want to believe. My father says eleven, my mother 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:12.600 says twelve. She said my father went and had another child. 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:14.920 We don't know about what. We were kind of separated 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:17.680 through the years. I grew up with five boys and 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:20.640 one girl living in my apartment, and I just always 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.600 felt protected, like I'm the seventh, the baby, and the 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:26.280 family on that side, and my mother went to work 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:28.079 at five in the morning. She didn't come home till 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:31.320 sometime nine o'clock at night. But we had everything we needed. 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:34.040 I might have didn't have the latest, most expensive sneakers 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:36.720 that I might have wanted, but it was nothing but love. 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:37.520 Growing up in. 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:40.680 Brooklyn and you were growing up in the nineties, which 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:45.079 was a crazy time, rife with street crime and police 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:50.080 violence and corruption and those go together sometimes unfortunately, and 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:52.520 of course the news media, any crime that happened, they 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:56.200 would amplify it as alt saying if it bleeds, it leads, 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:59.760 and then that would of course drive the pressure on 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:02.920 the police to make arrests and for ultimately people to 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:03.680 get convicted. 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:08.520 I would say because of the Giuliani Pataki tough on 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:13.480 crime era, I know personally fifteen people that were wrongly convicted. 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:16.720 It was five district attorneys across New York City that 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:19.320 were just prosecuting people. It didn't matter if they got 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:23.200 the right person for the crime. They were holding witnesses hostage, 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:26.200 they were holding witnesses in hotels, they were paying witnesses 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:30.519 and lying about it. They were using drug addicts to testify. 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:32.400 And when you lock up the wrong person, the right 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:34.840 person remains free. And everybody's endangerous. 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:37.280 And it wasn't about making the streets safer. It was 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:40.400 about incarcerating as many black and brown bodies as they 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:41.880 could from poor communities. 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:43.200 Who was going to really complain? 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:47.680 And when this crime took place, it was the time. 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:50.600 For people who can remember this far back, it was 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:52.440 the same summer as Abner Louima. 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:57.280 First off, Abner Louima was violated by the same precinct 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:00.600 that investigating eventually charged me, in this case seven to 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:01.560 zero Precinct. 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:05.560 So for those who don't recall, Admir Luimo was scooped 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:07.800 up from the scene of a fight and was brought 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:10.560 back to the seventieth precinct where he was not only 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:16.120 brutally beaten by the police, but was also and brace yourself, 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:18.160 I'm sorry I have to even say this, but he 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:24.720 was sexually assaulted with a broomstick. Thankfully, those officers were 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:28.039 charged and convicted. But this was the precinct where just 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:30.760 a few weeks before, in late July, there was some 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:35.080 friction between two groups Jermaine's family and friends at twenty 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:39.120 Westminster Road, and the victim Patrick Niles. His people, specifically 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:42.279 his older brother Ronaldo, and a guy named Carlos Bethune. 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:45.960 Carlos Betun was Ronaldo's right hand man, that was his friend. 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:48.040 I only knew him as the short, chubby guy that's 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:50.640 always with Ronaldo. I didn't even know his name until 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:53.400 this case actually happened. I didn't know Ronaldo's name. We 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:56.080 called him Crocodile because he got a long face. Crocodile 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:59.159 is crocodile a Spanish, but cocodrillo, and that's his nickname. 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:01.640 We didn't give him that name. He was known for violence. 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:04.000 He was a street guy. I can't really say that 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:06.800 I've witnessed him do certain things that other people said 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:08.719 he did, but I know he was one not to 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:09.320 be played with. 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:09.960 I know that. 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:13.480 Looking back, I understand that they was just troubled young 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:16.200 people like me, and that was involved in some things 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:18.120 we probably had no business being involved in. 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:21.800 And that sets the stage for July twentieth, nineteen ninety seven. 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:25.480 July twentieth, nineteen ninety seven, I was walking down the 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:27.840 street with a friend of mine. We wanted to go 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:30.120 to the store, and there was a girl sitting on 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:31.640 a bike and she was talking to a couple of 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:33.200 people from the neighborhood that we knew. 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:35.400 I asked her if I could borrow her bike. She 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:36.320 looked hesitant. 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:38.360 I was like, I'm gonna give you back your bike, 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:40.760 and my friend offered her some money to hold. It 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:42.440 was like a lot of money. So the guy she 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:45.760 was talking to, Ronaldo he felt, showed up and he 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:48.599 snatched the bike and said, YO, don't ever disrespect me again. 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:51.479 And I was like, we cool, Like where's this coming from. 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:53.480 He had just given me a ride the other day 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:55.360 to my sister's house, so we grew up together. 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:56.480 I didn't know. 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:58.840 I found out later that his father died that night. 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:00.880 That's where the attitude was coming from. But I didn't know. 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:03.400 I was like, no problem, they ain't even worth it. 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:05.360 I went back in front of my building. I told 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:07.880 my brother Michael what happened, because they were the same age, 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:09.960 and he said, just stay in front of the building. 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:11.440 I'll talk to him in the morning. I don't know, 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:12.520 maybe he going through something. 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:15.719 A little while later, as I'm walking to the store, 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:18.560 he pulled up in the car and pulled out a gun. 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:21.920 The people that I was with ran except one. He said, Yo, 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:24.280 I know you went and got a gun. Don't make 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:27.359 me leave you. One brother's less, all this craziness, and 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:29.400 then he leaves again. I go back and tell my 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:32.080 brother again, and my brother tells me stay upstairs for 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:34.200 the night. The next day, I'm in the house the 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:37.120 entire day with my children's mother. I don't want to 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:38.800 go outside. I want my brother to be able to 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:40.120 talk to him. I don't know what he's going to do. 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:42.560 I don't know if he's going to send anybody. He's notorious. 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:43.640 People knows who he is. 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:46.040 So the kids who hung out in front of Jermaine's 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:49.400 building twenty Westminster Road, they were aware of the danger 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:52.440 from Ronaldo and his crew while doing what they normally did. 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:55.479 And the police, well, they were doing what they normally did. 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:56.040 Normally. 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:59.960 We were on the corner shooting dice, smoking weed, drinking beer, 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:03.039 talking to girls. It was literally like that was the hangout. 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:05.360 But that night I stood in front of the building. 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:08.040 This is those days of tough on crime. The police came. 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:10.440 They did this almost every night. They would search us 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:11.960 literally two or three times a night. 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:12.760 So they came. 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:14.480 They put us on a wall, even in front of 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:16.960 my building. They patted everybody down that was there, and 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:20.160 they drove off. When they drove off, I got up. 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:22.760 I went to the alley to piss. While I was 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:24.640 in the alley, I was talking to three girls in 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:27.080 the window and I'm joking with them like this is 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:29.080 kind of heavy because y'all hold this for me, wash 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:31.280 your hands. I'm having fun with these girls the things 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:33.640 we do in the neighborhood. And while we're all talking, 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:35.720 one of them stuck ahead back in the window. The 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:39.680 other two stood While we were talking. We heard three shots, 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:43.040 so they literally had eyes on me when the shots 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:46.040 were fired. After that, I'm trying to get my stuff 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:47.760 together because i don't know what's going on. I'm thinking 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:50.440 it's Ronaldo. He's back, he's shooting at us. 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:52.840 But it wasn't Ronaldo. Out in front of the building, 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:57.160 Carlos Bethune had driven by and someone shot into the car, 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:00.000 killing Ronaldo's brother Patrick Niles. 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:01.320 I go up to my roof. 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:03.480 My best friend comes up to the roof and I'm 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:06.080 like why, and he's like, what are you asking me for? 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:09.160 I don't know, and so I'm thinking it's going to 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:12.480 be a problem. Because they notorious. They got guns. They gangsters. 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:15.000 Why would this guy do this in front of Like, 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:16.760 I'm upset at the time, I don't know what's going 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:17.520 on now. 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:20.760 The police came to investigate, and luckily a neighbor kid 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:24.640 named Kester Jones saw the whole thing and was interviewed. However, 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.360 that doesn't seem to have been memorialized. 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:30.600 Kester thinks he was interviewed. I don't know if it 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:33.320 was in fact by the police. He had been playing 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:36.000 basketball at the park down the street. His apartment was 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:37.880 all the way at the end of the block, and 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:40.720 so as he was walking home, he happened to be 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:44.320 there when this happened. He saw the guys outside Germaine's 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:46.719 apartment building, and he didn't want to walk by there 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:48.960 because you know, he didn't want to get haressed. So 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:50.640 he was trying to get over to the other side 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:52.959 of the street, and that's how he was right there 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:55.400 behind it when he saw exactly what happened. 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:57.920 He said he saw a car stop near the first building, 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:00.920 which was ten, then he saw another cost by twenty, 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:04.440 which was my building, and then he saw someone run 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:07.120 into the street and shoot at the car from behind 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:09.120 it As he was driving down the block. It went 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:12.720 through the back passenger window. It struck a victim behind 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:15.520 his right ear and went from right to left. According 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:18.640 to the medical examiner, So Carlos Bethune went to the 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:21.720 precinct that night and he said, I don't know what happened. 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:24.080 I was driving down the block. I heard three shots. 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:25.800 I took off. My friend got shot in the head. 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:29.400 That must have been true. Three days later he went 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:32.680 back to the precinct and said, I lied to y'all. 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:34.840 Jermaine did it? Bang did it? They called me Bang, 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:36.120 Bang did it? Now? 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:39.079 The story he gave couldn't have been true because one, 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:41.120 he's the driver of the car, So the only way 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:43.079 you could see somebody shoot your friend in the back 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:45.960 of the head is if you're driving looking backwards. But 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:48.720 he said Bang came and jumped in front of the car, 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:52.160 The car stopped, ran to the side, and shot the 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:54.800 passenger in the head. The medical examine a proof that 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:56.880 couldn't have happened that way because there was no stippling, 0:09:56.960 --> 0:09:59.160 There was no gunpowder residue on the person's head. The 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:01.160 crime scene invests to get it said it couldn't happen 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:03.480 that way because the bullet didn't come through the passenger window. 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:05.719 It came through the back window, so none of the 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:09.079 stuff he said lined up, But he said I did it. 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:12.280 We found out later Ronaldo convinced Carlos to implicate me 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:13.760 so that they could track me down. 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:17.160 So Ronaldo believed Jermaine had done it, even though the 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:21.520 folks at twenty Westminster knew otherwise. And now, as the result, 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:23.600 Jermaine was in real danger. 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:25.800 So I'm not trying to get shot for something I 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:27.480 didn't do, and I'm not trying to get arrested for 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:30.760 something I didn't do. So I ended up leaving. I 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:32.760 went through New Jersey, I came back up state, and 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:35.719 I went to Pennsylvania, and eventually I just dropped off 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.720 my children's mother and my children, and then I just 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:40.360 was like living on the road. I was just I 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:42.240 had a car. I was just driving back and forth 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:44.720 from state to state. I wasn't staying in any place 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:47.320 too long because I figured, over time the police realized 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:49.360 I didn't do it, and I'll be able to figure 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:50.360 out what comes next. 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.840 So while Jermaine was out of town, Rinaldo tried something 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:55.200 else to try to smoke him out. 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:57.800 About three weeks after that, I'm not sure the exact date, 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:01.360 but it was August nineteen ninety seven. My brother was 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:04.920 at his house in Queen's and Ronaldo pulled up. We're 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:07.040 still unsure how he found that way he lived or 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:09.600 Ronaldo pulled up on him. He was with his daughter 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:11.720 and they just shot him up. 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:15.640 And Carlos Bethune was allegedly the driver. Now, miraculously Jermaine's 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:19.480 brother lived, and now this attempted murder with a surviving 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:23.959 witness was looming over them. Meanwhile, about seven months rolled 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:27.160 by before the police caught up with Jermaine and Allentown, Pennsylvania, 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.400 where he was arrested and sent back to New York. 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:31.560 When they arrested me, they say, you're gonna tell us 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:33.520 who did it, or we're gonna lock you up. And 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:36.280 I was like, I didn't see the crime. I'm being honest, 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:38.360 like I said, I was in the alley, so that 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:39.520 was part of the problem. 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:41.800 I didn't see the crime. Well who did it? 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:43.720 And I said, you can't put this on me. I 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:46.280 remember telling office to that and he said, I'm gonna 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:47.160 tell you what's gonna happen. 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:48.199 I'm gonna lock you up. 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:50.920 You're gonna go in the lineup and you're gonna get 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:53.360 picked out and then you'll take your chances at trial, 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:55.680 or you could just tell me who did it right now. 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:59.400 And I remember saying something slick like, did jacket don't fit? 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:01.960 Everyone knew me I was a petty drug dealer at 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:05.080 the time, the jacket don't fit, And as if we 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:08.079 had both seen the same movie, he spit right back, 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:27.400 I know a good tale. So when Carlos implicated me 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:30.160 and the police arrested me, he came to the lineup 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:32.880 and said, I'm not really sure, and then he made 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:35.640 a phone call, and somebody on the phone call, according 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:37.880 to the detective, was trying to convince him not to 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:40.640 identify me. My belief was that they wanted to get 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:42.240 me back in New York and then let me walk 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:44.160 out of the precint where they knew I would be unarmed. 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:45.880 Thedn't gonna be down That's what I'm thinking, Like, you're 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:48.160 coming out the precinct, you definitely can't defend yourself, and 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:49.160 they're gonna be down there. 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:51.360 But they didn't realize I had a probation violation. 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:55.000 Which sent him to Rikers Island while the police arrested 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:56.559 his child's mother's brother. 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:58.839 They got him for some drugs and they said, we 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:01.120 don't even want you. You just got to save what 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:03.480 we need you to save for bang And he said 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:05.840 that he didn't see who shot, but that I went 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:07.880 to his house and he had a bunch of guns 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:09.600 in his house, and I put a bunch of guns 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:11.920 in a book bag and came downstairs and started handing 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:13.840 him out, which was a cold bloody line. 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:16.800 And so he was indicted, but Carlos Bethune had still 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:18.280 not identified him. 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:20.640 When they didn't identify me in a lineup, I was thinking, 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:23.560 either they're gonna try to work this out or they're 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:27.240 going to try the exact street revenge. Rinaldo ended up 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:30.320 tracking down my brother said I thought he shot my 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:33.120 brother my bag, so I knew by then they knew 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:35.760 I didn't do it. So I wasn't really concerned we're 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:38.240 going to trial because I didn't think they was going 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:40.400 to testify against me. And I found out later that 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:43.840 the district attorney and the police Prussian Carlos. It would 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:46.520 reach a certain point where he was also hiding from Ronaldo. 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.360 That's in those transcripts too. He was hiding from Ronaldo 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:51.880 because he said According to him, he thought Ronaldo wanted 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:52.600 to kill him. 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:56.040 It appears Carlos was willing to cooperate, which conflicted with 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:59.559 Ronaldo's plan to avoid his own charges see King Michael's 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:03.120 forgiven for the attempted murder by not helping the prosecutors 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:06.040 close his brother's murder case with Jermaine, who it appears 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:10.040 they knew was the wrong person, and Jermaine's attorney, Jesse Young, 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:13.079 was trying to expose whether or not Carlos had accepted 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:13.480 a deal. 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.920 There was back and forth whether they let Carlos off 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:19.320 the hook in my brother's shooting. He brought his paperwork 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:21.800 to the court and the judge went through his file 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:25.000 and they said they couldn't find anything. We knew there 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:27.080 was a deal made. We just wasn't sure where the 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:29.560 deal was made. We thought it was in Queen's but 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:31.880 it wasn't. It was actually in King's County. 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:35.360 Jermaine's attorney tried to admit Michael Archer as a witness 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:38.160 as to why Carlos might have had a reason to testify. 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:40.880 They wouldn't let my brother testify because he was not 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.080 a witness to the crime that I was being charged with. 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:46.520 What happened on July twenty first, nineteen ninety seven, in 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.160 front of twenty Westminster Road. If you have nothing to 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:51.120 say about that, we're not going to let you come 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.960 in and testify. So they took me to trial. Carlos 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:54.800 said what he said. 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:58.080 Carlos testified about the confrontations and the lead up to 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:00.760 the shooting, and then his alleged EXPERI parents that night, 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:03.920 stopping his car near twenty Westminster Road to let a 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:08.080 disabled person across the street. Well, such an upstanding guy, right, 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:12.000 and then Jermaine allegedly emerged from the minivan, firing into 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:15.640 the vehicle. Carlos was cross examined with how that differed 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:18.880 from his original statement and how he'd said that he 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:19.880 hadn't seen the shooter. 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:22.640 I had no concerns whatsoever, Like, there's no way they're 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:24.480 going to convict me on it because I didn't do it, 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:26.720 and also because he don't flip the story a couple 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:29.440 of times, and because there's people that saw it that's 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:33.120 willing to come and testify. For my children's mother, her sister, 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:36.240 and my best friend all came and said it wasn't Bang. 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:38.880 Bang was in an alley when it shots fired my 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.240 children's mother was on the street, so she's seen it. 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:43.000 They all testified that it wasn't me. 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:46.200 And they even named the person who they'd all seen shoot, 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:50.560 Patrick Niles. However, being Jermaine's friends and family appears to 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:53.840 have hurt their credibility. But what about the other guy, 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:54.840 Kester Jones. 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:57.760 Kester wanted to testify, He was in court To this day, 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:00.840 I have no idea why he didn't testify. Kester even 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:02.960 recently he brought it up. He said he went to 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:06.080 court ready to testify, and someone came and told him, 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:06.720 we don't need you. 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:10.120 But they needed everything they had because Carlos Pethune and 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:13.440 the prosecutor strategy appear to have been enough for the jury. 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:16.520 It's off the record, but one of the jurors reached 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:19.280 out to my brother after the trial, not sure how 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:21.440 she found them, and said it couldn't get over the 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:22.480 nickname Bang. 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:23.800 Yeah, not helpful. 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:24.560 Wasn't helpful. 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:26.600 But my mother named me after Bang Bang Morales. It 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:29.360 was a boxer in the seventies, so she nicknamed me 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:32.720 after him. But the prosecutor, if you go through the transcripts, 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:35.560 she doesn't call me archer, she doesn't call me Jermaine 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:38.800 and Bang did this, and Bang did that, and she 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:42.000 was emphasizing it. Most people cursed the lawyer out when 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:44.360 they get convicted, and I remember just telling him, thank 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:47.400 you man, you tried. And I remember my mother telling 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:51.000 me that she was hysterical and crying and everything. But 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:53.920 to judge Michael Duval actually saw her in the hallway 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:57.320 and said, your son should have took a bench trial. Basically, 0:16:57.360 --> 0:16:58.640 if I had took a bench trial, I would have 0:16:58.640 --> 0:16:59.400 beat the case of trial. 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:03.320 Following the verdict, Jermaine's attorney filed the motion to vacate 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:06.399 and set aside the verdict, questioning whether the preclusion of 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:10.920 Michael Archer had denied jermaine affair trial. Additionally, Jermaine's brothers 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:15.200 had secretly recorded alleged confessions from the actual shooter. They 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:19.040 had a hearing, but the recordings were difficult to hear. Meanwhile, 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:21.560 Ronaldo was trying to avoid his own trial. 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:25.720 After I got convicted. He sent word through a family friend. 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:27.720 He said, let's do what we can to make it right. 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:30.719 If you don't press charges against me, I'll make this 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:34.200 guy recant the story against your brother. And then Rinaldo 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:38.200 convinced Carlos to recant his testimony, which was the second 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:40.240 time he changed the story. He turned around and said, 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:42.359 I'm not sure it was him. They saying it was 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:44.560 this guy I heard they look alike. I don't want 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:46.480 to send an acent man in prison. So then he 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:49.680 changed the story and then they overturned the conviction. 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:53.200 At this point, Jermaine was released pending a new trial. 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:56.160 And then I don't know if specifics of that deal, 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:58.040 I'm not going to give here say. I just know 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:00.439 that deal fell apart at three four months after that, 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:02.080 they changed the story again. It was like, you know what, 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:06.600 on second thought, it wasn't. I heard the judge tell Peggy, 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:10.520 and this is Assistant District Attorney Peggy Hoffman, you're over 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:13.879 trying this case. He's clearly not an angel, but it 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:16.360 doesn't look like he did this. The judge told her 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:18.320 that it was in an off the record, you know, sidebar, 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:21.680 but I heard her and she said, I'm just following 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:25.560 instructions from up top your eye. So basically Charles Hines 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.480