WEBVTT - Selects: The Cleveland Torso Murders 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:03.360 Hey, everybody, it's being Josh and for this week's select, 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:08.000 I've chosen our Cleveland Torso Murders episode from May twenty one. 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:10.680 Once in a while we do some true crime episodes, 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:13.440 and in my opinion, this might be our best one ever. 0:00:13.800 --> 0:00:17.280 It's a semi little known series of gruesome killings that 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:20.440 became an engrossing story with a lot to keep up with. 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:23.400 I should probably mention there's a lot of frank talk 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:26.360 about some really grizzly stuff in here, so be four warned. 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:29.600 Hope you enjoy it as much as one can enjoy 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:30.520 this kind of stuff. 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:42.360 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:48.520 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh. There's Chuck 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:49.879 Jerry's out there. 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:54.720 Somewhere with a magnifying glass and toothpick. We don't know 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:57.520 what the toothpick's for, but this is stuff you should know. 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:03.160 Yes, content warning episode, everybody. This is one of our 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:06.319 it's about to say rare, they're fairly rare, but one 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:12.399 of our true crime episodes that is very grizzly, gruesome, gruesome, 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:15.360 but took place in the nineteen thirties, so there's something 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:18.320 about old and gruesome. That makes it a little more 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:20.520 palatable for me totally. 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:23.080 I don't know why, but you're absolutely. 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:24.399 Right time, I guess you know. 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:28.480 Yeah, he heals all wounds, wounds the Torso murders. 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:29.600 Yes, it does well. 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:32.640 Heals all wounds except for some of the things that 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:34.920 happened in the Torso murders, because you can't come back 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:35.240 from that. 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:40.080 It's pretty crazy. You were familiar with the Torso murders already, right, I. 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:42.759 Had heard of these, and the more I read about them, 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:44.800 the more I was shocked that there wasn't a good 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:46.200 period movie about this. 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:48.280 Yeah, absolutely so. 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:51.280 But if you haven't heard of the Torso Killer, that's fine, 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:53.400 You're You're definitely not alone. A lot of people haven't, 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:56.320 which is kind of surprising because these are they are 0:01:56.600 --> 0:02:00.640 unsolved murders. There were a lot of them, and you know, 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:03.960 they took place in the background of a city that 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:08.840 was like driven into a frenzy by this ghastly serial 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:14.720 murderer who was who continued their murders despite this extraordinarily large, 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:17.880 you know, manhunt to try to find them, an unsuccessful 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:19.160 man hunt still to this day. 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:21.120 Yeah, I mean, it has all the makings of a 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:21.799 good movie. 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:25.720 It's got a and we'll reveal who this person is. 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:28.119 We'll hang on to it for a second. But maybe 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:29.880 got a famous investigator. 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:34.560 Oh oh sorry, yes, and he definitely was the famous investigator. 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:36.960 Yeah. Oh you thought I met who the murderer was. 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:38.280 Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah. 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:39.480 You've got some false starts. 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:45.559 You've got some Cohen Brothers esque whimsy with the dog discovery. 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:46.800 I thought you'd like that. 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:47.720 Yeah, I did like that. 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:50.399 And yeah, it has all the makings of a great 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:53.440 movie in a cool period setting, which was depression era 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:57.320 nineteen thirties Cleveland, Ohio. 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:02.080 Which is almost indistinguishable from current day twenty twenty one Cleveland. 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:03.920 Oh come on, we love Hey. 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.440 Man, I'm from Toledo. I can totally back in Cleveland. 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:07.359 That's tame Detroit. 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:08.960 I was. That's my birthright. 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:10.040 That is your birthright. 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:12.919 So let's go back to September of nineteen thirty four, 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:17.680 when a woman's torso is washed up on the shore 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:22.120 of Lake Erie. Her legs are amputated below the knee. 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.400 There is no head, which is why I said torso. 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:29.920 And it's a suspicious way to find a body. 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:33.320 The very suspicious way. She was never identified. They called 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:36.640 her the Lady of the Lake, and this was just 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:38.640 sort of the beginnings. Nothing was put together at this 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:42.400 point because it would be two years before any other 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:45.119 murders took place, and that they finally sort of put 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:48.360 together that the Lady of the Lake was perhaps Victim zero, 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:51.960 really victim one, but they called her Victim zero of 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:55.960 who had become known as the Torso murderer or the 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:00.800 Mad Butcher of Kingsbury. 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:01.240 Yes, Kingsbury Run. 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:04.080 And like you said, it'd be about two years before 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:07.200 they started to connect the dots. But in that time 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:09.920 between the time the Lady of the Lake was found 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:14.080 about a year past and then all of a sudden, 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:16.600 two more bodies were found. And now all of a sudden, 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:20.080 because two bodies were found together, this really started to 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:22.320 capture people's attention to the Lady of the Lake. It 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:24.520 was a weird thing. It was a terrible thing to find, 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:29.080 but it was singular. This was, you know, like by definition, 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:34.280 not singular, finding two bodies at once that were both dismembered, 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:38.719 and they were found in the area of Kingsbury Run, 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:41.360 which is where the Mad Butcher takes his name. 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:44.880 That's right, they were both men. In this case, they 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:51.080 were they were castrated. They were also decapitated, which would 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:55.160 become sort of a signature. The decapitation and any kind 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:57.440 of dismembering really would become the signature. 0:04:57.040 --> 0:04:58.840 Hallmark of this murderer. 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:02.560 And it's interesting in that victim, one of these two men, 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:06.200 was actually one of the only ones that they got 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:10.359 a fairly positive id for, actually got some fingerprints and 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:14.919 it matched a man named Edward Andrassy. And he was 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:17.200 sort of a petty thief that had you know, the 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:18.480 police had brought in before. 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:20.840 So he was believed to be gay. 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:23.320 And this if he was, you know, which all accounts 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:25.440 should say that he was. This was at a time 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.920 when in the nineteen thirties, certainly it was still illegal, 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:33.760 and it was also listed as a mental disorder in 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:40.600 the what's it called, not the DMVM, DSM. 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:43.040 The DMV. The DMV didn't look too highly on it either. 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:43.839 No, that's right. 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:47.240 So he, i think was one of only two that 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:50.440 was ever even positively identified of what would end up 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:56.239 being probably thirteen, maybe twelve murders. 0:05:56.560 --> 0:06:00.480 Yes, and again these guys were found together, not together, 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:04.960 like they were within you know, a very short distance 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:06.760 of one another, so that they were found virtually at 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:09.920 the same time. And whenever you find, you know, a 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:13.039 body missing its head, that that is a tension grabbing 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:15.839 And when you find two bodies both missing their heads, 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:20.280 that really starts to get the presses juices running. And 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:23.400 like we said, these were found around Kingsbury Run, and 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:26.920 Kingsbury Run is basically like an old river bed that 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:31.359 cuts through I believe the west side of Cleveland. No, 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:34.039 I'm sorry that, I think the east side of Cleveland 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:37.520 down to the Coyohoga River, and it was basically like 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:40.720 the place where all of the oil companies and all 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.560 of the heavy industry along the river and along the 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:46.760 lake would dump all of their waste. The city put 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:49.320 a sewer in there. It was just meant to be 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:54.240 kind of like a wasteland, like a literal wasteland, and 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:58.800 it kind of stayed that way until the depression hit. 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:00.599 And by the time the depression hit, things were so 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:04.720 bad that people were looking to basically live wherever they 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:07.400 could for free, and they started taking up residents in 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:11.280 Kingsbury Run. So by the time the Kingsbury Run murders, 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:15.240 the Torso murders started, this was like a full fledged, 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:19.040 full swing chanty town. Basically a Great Depression era Hoover 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:20.200 Town is what they call. 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:24.000 Them, Yeah, exactly, So it was a gram scene down 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:29.320 there anyway, certainly the fringes of society. During the course 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:32.320 of the investigation, there were accusations of the press that 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:34.679 they weren't working as hard as they needed to because 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:37.680 these were people on the fringes of society and sort 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:41.240 of forgotten about. And I think one of the other 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:45.280 people identified was a few months later, in January nineteen 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:50.040 thirty six, when they found the body of Flow Pilillo. 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:54.200 Florence Pililo was a waitress and bartender and a sex 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:58.040 worker who was discovered once again dismembered, wrapped a newspaper 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:00.960 and a couple of bushel baskets, and then about a 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:03.680 week and a half later found other parts of her body. 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:04.720 So she was sort of. 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:09.600 Found in it's very grizzly, but found in pieces over 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:12.200 the course of a week and a half in different places. 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:15.200 Right, So, so far as far as anybody can tell, 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:18.720 we're up to three and possibly four victims if you 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:21.960 include the Lady of the Lake. But it wasn't until 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:25.400 the following June, about six months after Flow Palillo was 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:29.400 discovered because again, remember these people were they actually lived 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.760 on the fringe of society. So just like today, just 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:37.080 like Robert Picton, the pig farmer from Vancouver, so many 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:41.679 other serial killers find their victims in like the just 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:44.480 I guess, the lowest stations of society because they're the 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:47.360 most vulnerable, they have the least protection. And that's kind 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:48.960 of what was going on. That's why it took so 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:52.600 many victims for the press to finally be like, Okay, 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:55.920 there's something really going on here. And finally in June, 0:08:56.080 --> 0:09:00.280 I believe of nineteen thirty six, victim number four as 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:03.440 far as canonical victims go, but possibly the fifth victim 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:08.000 was discovered. His head was found first by two boys 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:10.680 who were playing hooky and fishing along the Cya Hoga. 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:14.680 Can imagine that man, No, I can't, because they found 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:17.880 like a bald up pair of trousers and I guess 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:20.360 grabbed them and found that there's something in it. When 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:22.160 they opened it up, it was the head of a 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:25.920 man in his twenties. But I've never been identified like 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:27.200 so many of these victims. 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:30.280 Yeah, and not to trivialize any of this, but again, 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:34.520 that stuff is very ripe for movie making. 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:35.760 Totally. 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:37.679 This whole thing is and it really is surprising that 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:38.439 no one's done this. 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:41.160 Yet, Like you wouldn't you know, you would write something 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:43.240 like that in a screenplay, and this actually happened. 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:47.160 So I didn't see I haven't read it. But there's 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:50.680 a graphic novel and maybe it's a series called Torso 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:54.000 that is about all this, and I'm guessing that would 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:56.320 probably be a pretty good basis for the movie. 0:09:56.559 --> 0:10:00.640 Yeah, so Victim four, they were making great to find 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:04.400 out who this man was. So they actually the police 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:08.679 circulated a photo of his face and made a death mask. 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:11.520 If you don't know what a death mask is, I 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:13.600 encourage you to go listen to our episode on death masks. 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:17.680 It's basically what you would think. It's a recreation of 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:20.800 this man's head. And they put this thing along with 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:24.680 a tattoo map. He had tattoos all over himself, an 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:27.240 illustrated map of his tattoos in this death mask on 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:31.200 display at the Great Lakes Exposition of nineteen thirty six, 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:34.880 where you know, one hundred thousand people could walk. I 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:36.680 mean it was a smart idea in one way, because 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:40.280 they had a you know, could blast it out in 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:42.840 the best way possible to try and identify who this 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:45.720 person was. But it was also again like something from 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:48.360 a movie. These people going to an exposition all of 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:52.400 a sudden are walking behy these this tattoo map and 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:55.920 the death mask of this man. And I'm sure the 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:59.480 question came up, like, well, why is it? Where's the 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:01.480 rest of his place? Why didn't they just show pictures 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:02.239 of the tattoos. 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:04.679 They're like, stop asking questions, do you know the guy 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:08.520 or not? No, go get some ice cream, exactly, move along. 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:11.240 Nothing to see here. But yeah, despite that, you know, 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:16.360 very public search for an identification, he was never still 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:19.360 has never been identified, and his tattoos were really he 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:22.040 had people's names tattooed on him. He had a cartoon 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:26.200 character named Jigs tattooed on him. So this guy, you know, 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:28.679 you could see his face, they had all those tattoos. 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:29.960 And he still has never been identified. 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:33.680 But his discovery and I think the very public, like 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:36.760 the cops circulated a photo of his head on a 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:39.880 gurney in the morgue at first before they made the 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:44.600 death mass, among other police agencies around the area, and 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:47.480 I'm sure to the press as well, so it was 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:50.800 kind of public even though It was kind of quiet, 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:53.480 but it got the press's attention, and the press started 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:55.440 to connect the dots, and all of a sudden, we 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:58.360 now were connecting the Lady of the Lake to this 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:01.560 latest guy and all the other ones as well, and 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.640 it became very clear that there was what they call 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:10.240 the Mad Butcher of Kingsbury run on the loose in Cleveland, 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:12.640 and no one had any idea who it was or 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:15.000 when or if they were ever going to stop. 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:15.680 Yeah. 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:18.079 I think there were seven more victims over the next 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:24.240 two years. Victim eight were skeletal remains, but they did 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:28.880 think they identified this person as Rose Wallace, woman in 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:32.120 her forties. She had gone missing about a year earlier, 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:36.640 and there was quicklime used to decompose this body, and 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:41.600 this one, interestingly had evidence of more of a clumsy dismemberment. 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:45.040 To me, this one stands out a little bit is 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:48.240 one that possibly might not be a victim and could 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:53.880 have been misattributed to the Mad Butcher. That's just my 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:56.160 personal feeling. I don't know if anyone else is saying this, 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:58.040 but it's the one that stands out to me as 0:12:58.080 --> 0:12:59.320 being slightly different. 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:00.720 Same as same to me. 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:06.839 Yeah, the killer clearly lacked a dismemberment plan in that case, is. 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:10.720 That a ban Yeah? Are they good? 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:15.920 Yeah? They were really good. They were maybe mathrock. 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:19.720 Okay, I think they were at the very least they 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:20.520 were alternative. 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:28.040 Victim nine was had his heart removed, Victim ten had 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:33.240 morphine in her system. And I think they're not quite 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:35.760 sure how they all died. I think at one point 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:38.560 they thought most of them died by the decapitation, but 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:43.520 some were found with their blood completely drained from their body. 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:46.160 Like I said, this, one woman had morphine in her system, 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:49.480 which could make sense. We'll get to something else later 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:52.280 on of a potential victim that never happened, where drugs 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:53.600 might have been a factor. 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:56.559 But you know, it's it's sort of all. 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:58.240 You know, there were men, there were women, there were 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:00.560 black people, there were white people. There wasn't any real 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:03.520 rhyme or reason, it seemed like, aside from the fact 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:06.840 that they were probably culled from this area of Ohio. 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:09.920 Yes, and the fact that you know, the first two 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:14.320 men were emasculated, that there were women involved too, that 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:16.640 somebody's heart had been ripped out like there was there 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:18.960 was clearly a sexual element of the whole thing, which 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:23.200 made the idea that they were men and woman victims 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.440 very confounding. You just don't normally see that in a 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.440 sex killer. You see one or the other, and it's 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:34.560 usually the sex that the person is oriented to are 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:37.440 the victims. And then you know, just to kind of 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:40.920 to cap that point off, the killer left victims eleven 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:44.880 and twelve within a few yards of one another on 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:48.720 a dump like a trash dump, and one was a woman, 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:51.440 Victim eleven was a woman, and victim twelve was a man. 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:53.400 Should we take a break? 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:56.800 We should because Cleveland doesn't know it at the time, 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:00.600 but those of us looking through the looking backward through 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.720 history can tell you that this was the last canonical 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:06.920 victims in August of nineteen thirty eight. So the killer, 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:08.520 as far as anybody knows, is done. 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:10.680 That's right, and most of the grizzly stuff is out 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:13.160 of the way, and we'll be back to reveal the 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:46.840 famous investigator right after this. How's that for a tease? 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:50.880 It was I can't take it anymore, Chuck, please please? 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:51.960 Who is it? 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:53.680 It's my favorite thing when you play koy. 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:58.520 It was mister Elliott Ness that's very famous for being 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:04.240 the head of the untouchables for putting al Capone behind bars. 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.440 Good friend of Sean Connery's. 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:07.800 Very good friend. 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:09.480 Oh that was great. 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:12.000 That wasn't very good, because bring your. 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:14.800 Knife to a gunfight? You bring a gun, you dummy. 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:17.040 Yeah, I think that was the line. If you go 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:18.440 on to do Connery, well you got to have an 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:21.200 esh in there, right, But there. 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:23.400 Was no didn't I I thought that was I thought 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:24.000 I nailed it. 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:26.880 There aren't no ssays in that sentence. 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:31.400 Right, they're implied. And I would have done that had 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:31.760 there been. 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:36.160 Don't bring a knife to a gun dunch. How's that right? 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:37.920 You bring a gun? You're John Mary? 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:44.280 All right? Back to the serious stuff. Elliottness was the 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:48.800 after that work in what was that? Chicago? I think, oh, yeah, 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:49.200 that was. 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:53.680 He became the alcohol investigator in charge of the alcohol 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:57.360 tax unit for Northern Ohio in August of thirty four, 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:01.360 and then the Republican mayoral canon that Harold Burton, who 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:04.040 had gone to win, said you know what, Ness, you're 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:04.800 a famous guy. 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:08.720 I like the cut of your jib. Let me make you. 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:13.080 In December nineteen thirty five, the safety director for Cleveland, 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:17.199 and let me nudge you towards this outstanding case that 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:17.520 we have. 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:22.720 So, yeah, when he was hired, the case wasn't quite 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:25.000 clear that it was a big old case. He came 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:29.000 in just after, like a couple of months after victims 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:31.320 one and two were found, and just a couple of 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:36.600 weeks before flow Polillo was found, so it wasn't evident 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:41.119 that there was a serial murderer on the loose. But 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:44.040 that also means that Elliott Ness came in right at 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:46.320 the beginning of this thing. So he was the public 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:49.640 safety director for it. He became the face of the 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:52.800 frustrated police effort to capture the Torso killer. 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:56.600 Right although the lead investigator, what was that guy's name, 0:17:57.680 --> 0:17:58.960 Peter Marillo. 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:01.400 Yeah, he was. He was. 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:06.240 I don't know about obsess, but it became sort of 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:10.800 his main focus of work was to tirelessly find out 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:13.680 who this murderer was. And I assume that it's weird 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:15.760 because I really don't know what a safety director was. 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:17.680 I don't think is that even still a thing. 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:22.440 Yeah, I think there is a public safety director position still. 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:25.480 They basically are in charge of the police department, the 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:26.840 fire department. 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:29.439 Okay, all that stuff. They're the head of that. 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:32.119 They're like they probably the liaison between the mayor and 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:33.800 those services. 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:36.760 But not the Guardian angels because they do what they 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:37.159 want to do. 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:39.280 Hey man, they're staying on their road too. 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:43.320 The coroner, Aj Peerce of the case, I think he 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:45.879 was the first corner on the first case, said you 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:47.720 know what we need to do. We need to get together. 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:50.240 We need to have a little summit and start sharing information. 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:53.240 I'm going to call it the Torso Clinic, which was interesting. 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:55.600 I don't know if he did or the press did. 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:58.439 Yeah, either way, because the press was very much involved 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:02.320 in this whole obviously. But at this conference is where 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:06.040 he first put forward a profile, which was this is 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:10.320 someone who would not stand out in Kingsbury one, someone 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:14.040 who knew the area could blend in somebody. 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:14.359 You know. 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:16.440 We think it's a man who is a powerful man 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:19.720 because they need to be able to you know, it 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:21.920 takes a lot of work to dismember a body and 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:24.720 to haul these bodies around and drop them off in 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:27.840 different places. And we think he also might have some 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:32.840 anatomical knowledge, not saying that he's necessarily a doctor or 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:35.640 a surgeon, kind of like the Jack the Ripper thing, 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:40.119 but this person clearly clearly knows their way around a 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:41.080 knife and a scalpel. 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:43.960 Yeah, because I mean, if you really closely examine a 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:46.359 body and like look at the places where you know 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:49.240 the body was separated with the knife, you can find 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:54.440 hesitancy marks, you can find the hacking. There's all sorts 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:57.600 of clues and telltale signs. And apparently this guy had 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:00.920 a lot of confidence and had a lot of skill 0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:03.840 or knowledge about anatomy. So, like you said, maybe not 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:05.920 a doctor, but at the very least a very skilled 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:11.840 butcher who had studied human anatomy before. But eventually they 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:14.760 finally were like, this is probably some sort of doctor. 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:18.399 Yeah, And I think they eventually learned that most of 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:21.760 the victims died within a few day a few days 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:25.840 of being discovered, and most were moved, except for victim five, 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:28.879 where they found a blood bath. You know that was 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:31.560 this didn't happen at the other crime scenes. It was 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:33.560 virtually no blood to be found. In fact, I think 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:36.600 one was completely drained of blood anywhere. 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:39.440 Oh really, so that yeah. 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:41.160 I mean that takes I don't know if that happened 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:46.120 naturally just because of the nature of dismemberment, or if 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:48.480 it was a purposeful thing. But only one body was 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:51.399 found kind of clearly murdered there. 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:55.240 Right, So yeah, I think the fact that the blood 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:58.320 wasn't on the scene and it wasn't in the body 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:02.280 any longer means they had go somewhere. So that the 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:07.480 fact that they were dismembered and the and packaged, I mean, 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:09.919 like a lot of them are found, you know, the 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:13.520 one I unidentified tattooed man, his head was wrapped in trousers, 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:17.240 but other peoples were wrapped in newspaper or brown paper 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:22.679 like they were meat. Someone was put in a makeshift box. 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:26.720 There was there was a lot of time dedicated to 0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:31.239 the dismemberment of these bodies, and that that leaves a 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:33.880 lot of evidence, and you need a place where you're 0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:36.399 not going to be interrupted, and yeah, that's not easy 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:38.879 to come by. So that became a really like big 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:42.760