WEBVTT - Zoox CEO Aicha Evans (EXTENDED VERSION) 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:03.200 So this is a lab. Yeah, this is uh, the 0:00:03.440 --> 0:00:07.640 robot taxi of flex Line where they come in. First, 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:10.000 it's just a body, that's what I call it, the 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:13.160 body of the vehicle, and then lots of pieces that 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:17.600 have to be assembled, put together, tested. Now I'm told 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:20.160 you're not building a quote unquote car. No, I'm not. 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:22.079 Does this look like a car to you. Don't say 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:25.920 the word car. Don't say the word car. It's a vehicle. Yeah, 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:29.560 a transportation vehicle. Will sell you a ride in this vehicle. 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:35.920 Can we get in? Of course you can right there. 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:40.479 It is okay, so comfortable. That's what we want. We 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:42.319 don't want you to think about driving. This is why 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:46.320 it's not a car. Hi. Everyone, I'm Emily Chang and 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:48.640 welcome to the latest edition of Bloomberg Studio. At one 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:51.640 point now today, we're taking you to the Zoo's factory 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:55.120 floor in Fremont, California, where they believe they're building the 0:00:55.160 --> 0:01:03.120 future of transportation. You're listening to CEO Aisha Evans, one 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:06.120 of the top ranking black women in Silicon Valley who 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:09.560 grew up in Senegal. After twelve years working her way 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:11.560 up to the top ranks at Intel, she took a 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:14.120 leap into the startup world to join Zooks with a 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:18.080 goal to transform ride hailing as we know it. Just 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:20.760 a year later, she sold the company to Amazon for 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:24.520 one point two billion dollars. How does Zouks fit into 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:27.720 the future of ride hailing and Amazon? Could a Zooks 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:31.000 deliver your Amazon packages one day? Here's Evan's view of 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:34.160 the road ahead on this episode of Bloomberg Studio one 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:38.880 point out, so great to be here with you. Thank 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:41.480 you for coming and thank you for having me. You 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:45.880 came to Zooks as CEO and over from Intel, and 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:48.880 just a year later you sold it to Amazon. How 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:52.920 did that happen so quickly? It was a journey. Um. 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:55.960 It takes a lot of capital to um takes this 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:58.440 endeavor all the way. It's a it's a worthy one. 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:02.200 And when we looked at the ecosystem, when we looked 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:04.400 at everything that was going around, we had to decide 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:07.040 whether to stay private or whether to get a long 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:11.919 term oriented partner like some of our fellow travelers. And 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:15.040 then the pandemic hit. That brought a lot of clarity, 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:18.360 shall we say, And so the opportunity presented itself and 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:22.640 we went for it. Wise, Amazon the right fit. First 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:26.040 of all, they are a great company. Uh. They have 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:32.320 created both octogonal and adjacent multibillion dollar businesses. They are 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:37.640 long term oriented and very purpose driven, so that matched 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:41.120 our ambitions. They've never owned a car company though. Yeah, 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:43.680 but we're not a car company exactly. We're a right 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:47.120 hailing company. Talk to me a little bit about how 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:50.160 you got to Silicon Valley. Your story is not the 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:53.120 story of a typical tex EO like Jeff Bezos or 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:57.799 Eddie Jassy. Tell us about your upbringing. I was born 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:01.840 in Senegal, West Africa. Hum. My parents, I thanked them 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:05.639 to this day. UH sort of made school um an 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:10.120 implicit expectation. It was an up for discussion. Very early on. 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:14.480 I showed an aptitude and interest uh in math, physics, 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:18.160 not so much in biology and in building things. Uh. 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:21.800 And so they cultivated that. And then I bounced back 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:25.600 between Paris and UH and Senegal, learned a lot about 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:29.720 what technology does to people's lives, uh, and what it 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:33.560 makes possible. I literally had a contrast every few months. 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:38.240 And so computers were coming online, not the Internet, but 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:41.640 what the Internet was going to make possible was also 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:44.520 coming online. The US was to the place to be 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:47.800 to study that, and so I came to the US 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:50.720 and I went to school and then very boringly, I 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:55.280 met an American boy who is my husband, and really 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:57.440 that's how I ended up staying. So you go to 0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:04.800 computer Uh then basically, UM got jobs in the industry 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:09.920 and eventually ended up at Intel in Importlands. Through that 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:14.160 started interfacing with Silicon Valley, and then zooks came along. 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:16.880 So I don't really think of myself. I just happened 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:19.840 the journey led me here. I heard a story about 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:21.880 you hackake a phone in order to talk to your 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:26.400 friends long distance. Did that really happen? Oh? Yeah, I did. Um, Well, 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:29.320 when you're in France, you want to I I always 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:31.760 had a double life a little bit in terms of 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:36.160 family friends in different ecosystems. I still do to this day. 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:41.080 And so back then it was landlines. It was expensive 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:45.120 and my dad is in was intellcommunication, so if he 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:47.720 was not confused, so we had a rotary phone, I'm 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:51.760 dating myself and he locked it. But obviously I figured 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:53.960 out how to still make the phone calls. Who were 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:56.880 role models back then. I mean, it's so hard for 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:00.839 young people, especially young girls, to see themselves in the 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:06.719 tech industry. Um. Mary Curry was and still is a 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:11.480 role model. Um. In France, you study philosophy and a 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:15.440 lot of the philosophers are also mathematicians. Uh so they 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:18.080 were a role model, and they also forced you to think, 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:20.600 So those who are my main role models? At least 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:23.800 at the time. So after you, you know, meet this 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:26.720 American boy, you decide to stay. You worked your way 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:30.400 up to chief strategy officer at Intel, and it was 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:33.719 a difficult time for Intel. Intel was kind of losing 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:36.880 its way. What was it like working there at that time? 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:41.760 First of all, Um, I grew up there. I entered 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:45.839 as a sort of second third line manager and moved 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:49.360 up the ranks. I'll always be grateful for everything that 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:52.320 I've learned there. Um. Yes, it was a difficult time 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.640 in the sense that anytime you're successful, you earned the 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:58.920 opportunity to talk about what's the next phase of the journey, 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:01.479 and I was in the middle of that. But it 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:04.479 was also fun. I learned a lot. Um, I made 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:07.719 great funds and I'm rooting for today and I'm proud 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:09.520 of them and the journey there on. So what do 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:15.000 you think about Pat Gelsingers? Very ambitious, very grand, very expensive, 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:18.960 plan to turn Intel into a foundry to bring chip 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:22.799 manufacturing back to the United States at a heavy cost. 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:25.440 Is it going to pay off? I don't know. I 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:27.880 hope so I can't really. I mean, I don't work 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:29.880 there anymore, so I don't know the details of it. 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:32.919 What I can tell you is that semiconductors are in 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:36.839 everything in our lives, from small to big, from consumer 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:40.800 to enterprise. And it's almost like, um, I don't know 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:43.920 electricity in some ways, and so I'm rooting for them. 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:47.080 What was it like going from an established brand name, 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:51.800 storied tech company like Intel to a startup like Zooks. 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:56.240 I assume there are major differences in culture and execution there. 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:01.440 It was quite an awakening. Uh So I didn't tell 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:04.400 I was a little bit known as uh, not a rebel, 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:08.560 but um somebody who questioned things and who maybe did 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:10.760 the normal Oh my gosh, you know was too slow? 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:13.320 Is this or that or the other? An agitator of source? 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:15.960 An agitator, yes, a change agents, I think is the 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:20.000 elegant way of putting it. And so all right, when 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:23.840 I arrived at Zuits, yes, it was fast, Uh it was. 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:27.440 We were making decisions quickly, but from an infrastructure standpoint. 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:30.920 We I was like, WHOA, maybe there's a reason for 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:34.920 infrastructure and so, but I embrace the journey and said, okay, 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:39.040 we have to build one when you're doing what we're doing. Uh, 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:41.680 it's not just about the technology. You have to think 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:44.960 about the steps to get into market. You also have 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:48.360 to think about building the company so that it's ready 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:50.480 when you scale. If you wait until you need to 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:54.480 scale to actually build the infrastructure, bad things happen. I 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:56.920 also want to ask you a question about the founding store. 0:07:57.000 --> 0:07:59.640 You know, one of the founders no longer works here. 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:02.000 One of the founder still works here and is the CTO, 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:04.920 And I'm curious how important it is in your view 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:08.800 to have a founder remaining at a company and what 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:11.320 your approach is to that as a CEO who came 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:15.960 in from the outside. Yes, Um, Jesse Levinson, Uh, he's 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:18.960 our CTEO and co founder. I think it's important to 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:20.960 have a founder. I'm not confused. I wasn't here at 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:24.400 the beginning, and especially the company Zooks has been extremely 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:28.720 consistent since inception. When we first said we're doing a 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:31.080 ground up vahicule, people said the kind and not so 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:33.000 Now people are coming around to that point of view 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:35.960 because it does make some some problems easier on the 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:40.080 AI side, plus the customer experience. Um, we worked together. 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:43.520 I probably talked to Jesse outside of my kids and husband. 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:46.720 I talked to Jessie more than I talked to anybody. Uh. 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:49.640 He's probably graduated to be one of the person who 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:53.200 knows me the most and the best. We partner. Uh, 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:55.600 that doesn't mean we agree on everything, but we talked 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:59.080 about it. We discussed. We went through something pretty difficult 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:03.000 between the pandemic make and deciding, um what to do 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:06.760 from a capital standpoint, and so I think that it's 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:10.480 important to have a founder, but even more importantly, there 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:13.320 has to be a really strong partnership and relationship. And 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:15.440 if you can find that, then it's the best of 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:18.600 both world because it's fully complimentary. How much has the 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:22.640 vision changed from you know, the initial founders to today 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:25.600 and you know, how do you how does that founder 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:29.640 d n A then survive? The vision hasn't changed a bit. 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:34.679 And both Jesse and I give actually uh credit to 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:37.720 Tim who was the other co founder, because this was 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:41.000 his vision. Ah, he's a designer. He came up with 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:44.640 this concept and so we we give credit. And we've 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:48.120 been consistent. We haven't literally deviated left or right. We've 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:51.080 argued about timelines, we've argued maybe about the idea, the 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:55.560 industrial design or things like that. The division absolutely consistent. 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:59.360 I'm gonna tell you something. Every we have these company 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:04.200 all hands every often, so often we actually play the 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:12.200 two thousand and fourteen pitch. It's identical, identical. That's amazing. Yes, 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:15.160 it's all about execution and getting there. What's it like 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:19.600 being a leading black female executive in such a white 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:23.400 male industry. It depends. I don't wake up in the 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:26.680 morning thinking I'm that. I wake up in the morning 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:30.240 thinking I'm Asha. I've got stuff to do, meetings, decisions 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:33.920 to make, kids to take care of, making sure denim 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:38.080 is ready. Obviously in the moment, sometimes I think about 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:40.760 it because you look around. But I try and turn 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:44.000 it into an opportunity because and that's just how I 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:45.880 have one on ones with myself, and how you think 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:48.480 about it and how you show up it's important. So 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:50.280 I try and tell myself that means that I'm bringing 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:55.040 a perspective that nobody else has, and that's additive. And 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:57.080 then I try and also figure out a way to 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:00.280 have what I call an inclusive environment where I see 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:03.040 people's point of view and they see mine, and I 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:07.440 try not to get angry when it manifests itself in 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:11.240 annoying ways. What are the obstacles that you've overcome to 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:15.760 get here? Um? I think that often people assume, both 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:20.120 from a gender and UH sort of ethnicity standpoint, that 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:24.160 it's not normal to be here, and therefore maybe you've 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:28.880 got a discount, when it's often the opposite. You have 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:32.080 to try much harder than than others. I've had to 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:36.440 work on sort of how I receive information when or 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:39.720 how I really ideal with behaviors that are not acceptable, 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:42.360 and sort of learn when you take the high road. 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:46.720 I've had to find my voice and not be afraid 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:48.520 of it and use it. So a lot of things 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:50.520 like that. As you say you grew up at Intel, 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:53.640 you grew up in this industry. Are you pleased with 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:57.400 the change you've seen or has it not changed fast enough? 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:00.680 I can't be pleased. I mean, I'm pleased that is change, 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:03.960 but absolutely not. We have to do a lot more 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:06.600 as an industry. Why isn't it changing faster? Why don't 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:10.080 we see more people like you in positions of power. Well, 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:13.360 I think that's a complicated answer. I think it starts 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:17.320 very early on. I think it starts. I've been public 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:20.800 about Lego robotics. That was eye opening for me. I 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:24.120 have a son who participates in Lego robotics, and we 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:27.080 had some observations and kids are what seven eight and 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:31.559 you already see differences. I think also from a social standpoint, 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:36.840 around middle school, when there's a transition for girls, maybe 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:40.640 having a support system to stay in math, demystifying it, 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:44.560 teaching it differently, and then as people come up the ranks, 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:47.439 making sure, especially for women, making sure that we have 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:51.199 a support system around them so they can traverse through 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:54.439 some of the some of the phases like for example, 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:58.240 marriage and childbirth and so on. You're building a ride 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:00.680 hailing service, not a car. Why is it important to 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:03.400 have a woman in the room, people of different races 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:08.120 in the room, Because we are about selling a ride 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:11.559 to a customer, and the customers they look like many 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:15.679 different people. I'll give you a story. We were discussing 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:18.440 pick up and drop off, and um, I'm the only 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:22.120 woman in the room. Yes, I'm always in jeans and 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:25.200 what have you. But occasionally I dressed up and have 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:27.720 high heels on. We're wearing high heels today, yep. I 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:30.960 made a comment when you arrived, right, and so I 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:33.520 was like, Okay, we have to think about it from 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:37.240 that standpoint, because if we're giving right to customers in 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:40.200 San Francisco, for example, on a Friday evening, on a 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:44.080 Saturday evening, maybe some folks have heels on, and maybe 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:47.079 we need to think about the pick up rages because 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:50.800 expecting them to go uphills in you know, high heels 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:53.840 probably not a good idea. That's why it matters, you know, 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:57.360 from a product perspective. Right, let's talk about the competition. 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:01.760 What is Zoox's edge over GM's crew those Googles way now, 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:04.880 and if you could level with us, what's their edge 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:09.200 over zooks um. First of all, I look at them 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:12.760 a little bit like fellow travelers. Yes, we're competitors because 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.800 we're in the same space and we're going after some 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:19.080 of the same things. But this is a big industry. 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:23.160 We are not a car company. We are transportation company 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:29.360 and humans since inception whenever, that was all about transportation 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:33.000 and always going somewhere to either have access to information, 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:35.680 access to more to a better livelihood or so on. 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:39.520 So it's a huge market. We do not expect one company. 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:41.600 It's not going to be a winner take on. So 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:44.760 we're fellow travelers in some ways. Second, it's a safety 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:49.240 critical product and therefore I think it's important to lay 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:52.200 that groundwork. Now. Having said that, I would say one 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:55.760 of the big differences is that we are going straight 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:59.920 to what we think is the ideal product to provide 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:03.520 rights to customers. We are not here to enhance your 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:07.520 driving experience. We don't even want you to think about driving. 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:10.520 So the customer experience is built in such a way 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:13.240 that you're here to be transported. You have an app 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:15.480 which you already know how to do today. You have 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:16.960 an app where you say I want to go from 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:20.280 point A to point B, especially in dense urban environments 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:25.360 think downtown San Francisco, and we show up and we 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:28.800 pick you up. Sliding doors, you step in a little 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:33.920 bit London cab inspired communal seating. You couldn't write alone 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:38.040 or with friends or basically with other people. You buckle up, 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:41.280 you push, start, do whatever you want to do, Relax, 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:45.040 meditate beyond your device. What about Tesla, which is right 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:50.600 down the street. Our Tesla and Elon must competition, fellow travelers. 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:55.680 I think we're in the same general industry. Um. First 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:57.440 of all, we have a lot of respect for for 0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:02.080 Tesla and what they've made possible, both intrinsically meaning the company, 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:05.320 but also for the industry. This is Silicon Valley, were 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:08.880 you know, paid tribute to disruptors. Having said that, we're 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.800 not exactly in the same business. We don't sell a 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:14.360 car to people. We sell a right to people. Our 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:17.520 customers are not drivers. There are writers, and therefore we 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:20.320 use the same types of technologies, but they are in 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:24.160 the car selling business. So how does Zookes fit into 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:28.520 the future of Amazon? Well, that story is yet to 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.440 be written. First of all, we are we hope to 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:35.320 deliver on the promise of a new segment and uh 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:38.520 sort of a big business uh and be one of 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:41.680 those in the tradition of of Amazon. And then what 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:44.480 happens then? Who knows that? We know there's a world 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:47.440 of possibilities, but I tell everybody we first have to 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:51.520 earn it right before we talk about sort of synergies 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:55.400 and possibilities and opportunities together. Zero times anything is still 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:57.600 zero and it will be for a long time. So 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:01.040 We're focusing on building our business, getting market and then 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:04.080 there's a myriad of possibilities of things we could do together. 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:06.439 Zoo is going to be dropping off my boxes. Is 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:09.760 that what I should expect potentially, if that's the right 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:11.600 thing to do and if it makes sense to do so. 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:13.240 But first we're going to make sure to take you 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:16.440 everywhere you need to go without having to worry about parking, 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:19.560 having a car and so on. What's it like having 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:23.560 Amazon as your boss? It's been good. I get that 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:26.280 question a lot, by the way, It's been really good. 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:29.840 It's been about a year and I don't know, nine 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:33.399 ten months. So well, you know, Amazon is it's often 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:38.600 know more as an overlord, especially when it comes to investments. 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:42.760 You know that they're very involved. Is that the case? Um, 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:47.719 we're an independent subsidiary of of Amazon, So yes, they 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:50.679 are involved, but I don't know, No, they are not 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:53.080 an overlord or anything like that. We agree on what's 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:55.040 going to happen, why it's going to happen, and then 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:59.400 we basically we've we've run pretty independently. They're very available 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:01.639 though if we have a question or if they have 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:04.359 a question. There as communication going on, but we know, 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:07.320 we don't feel like swamp or anything like that. How 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:09.320 often did you talk to Jeff Bezos or do you 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:14.199 talk to Andy Jassy or maybe it's Dave limp Um. 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:16.760 I don't talk to them that often. I mean we 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:20.840 have a monthly business review or quality business review or 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:24.280 or just but no, this is that I know a 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:26.000 lot of people ask me that question to know. It's 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:27.840 not like I'm besties with them and we're on the 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:31.280 phone and wrapping and channing. Now, so well, you must 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:33.919 know what their expectations are of you? What what what 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:37.560 are their expectations of you? What is Amazon expecting of 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:41.439 zoos execute get to market scale? And do you have 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:45.720 the funding to do that? Gm? Google very well funded 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:49.000 competitors or fellow travelers. As you say, are you getting 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:52.159 what you need? Yes? More than what I need. I'm 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:55.320 funding is not something I even worry about. So what's 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:57.680 it like to operate in that environment where money is 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:01.040 not an issue? Well, I mean you have to be careful, 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:02.959 right because you also don't want to be a drunken 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.880 sailor and be like, oh now I have you still 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:09.919 have to be uh, very disciplined. You have to manage 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:12.520 the phases of the business. We don't sit here and 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:15.040 talk about Amazon a lot, or talk about even fellow 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:17.960 travelers a lot. We're like, Okay, how do we execute? 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:19.840 How do we make our mouthstones? How do we get 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:23.399 to market where things organized properly? How do we hire? 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:26.520 How do we retain and so on and so forth? 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:29.520 How do we stay mission driven? The public seems to 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:32.600 have lost interest in waiting around for self driving cars. 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:35.479 I wrote in Google self Driving Car in twenty eleven, 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:39.679 and I'm still waiting to be able to buy or 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:43.359 just ride a self driving car on demand. Why is 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:46.480 it taking so long? I think in self driving First 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:51.560 of all, the opportunity is so clear. Um the so 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:55.320 the beach is so broad. We forgot that big things 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:58.840 do start small. One second, it's a hard problem to solve. 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:02.480 We talk a lot about safety, uh, and we talked 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:05.320 talk a lot about human error when it comes to driving, 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:08.080 But we also forget that collectively, at least in the 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:12.240 United States of America, humans collectively drive a hundred million 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:17.600 miles before having a fatality. That's a lot of mouths. 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:20.360 So humans are also pretty good. And the thing humans 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:23.680 are good at, which is hand I call it exception handling. 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:27.840 We all know how to drive. If we're all fully autonomous, 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:31.199 would be deployed already. But we're driving amongst human and 0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:33.919 you have to deal with so many little scenarios. There 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:36.280 are so many things that you've been learning about driving 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:41.800 since births and codifying that using AI sensors and computers 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:44.000 is turning out to be a lot harder. Last, but 0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:47.160 not least, it's a safety critical system. None of us 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:52.399 should deploy until unless we have closed loop evidence that 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:54.679 we're safe. So what is the AI need to learn 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:57.360 how to do at this point? What are the challenges 0:20:57.440 --> 0:20:59.880 left to solve? It needs to know how to deal 0:20:59.880 --> 0:21:03.879 with unexpected things as they as they happen. And is 0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:06.679 that possible that it can? Can? I learned that, of 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:08.840 course it's possible. I mean I'm one of I'm an 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:11.880 optimist when it comes to technology. I saught it in wireless. 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:14.240 So you have to think from switchboards all the way 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:20.240 to today. Quite a journey. Um. I'm fascinated by flying airplanes. 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:22.800 The right brothers, if they were trying to solve what 0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:25.399 is being sold in aviation today, they wouldn't have tried. 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:28.040 We we just let let it marinate, let it take 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:32.480 its time. The algorithms will get better. Uh, compute gets 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:35.440 better all the time, censors get better all the time. 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:39.800 It will happen. What about security challenges? We've reported on 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:45.080 how Tesla's have been hacked. What can happen when AI 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:48.720 gets behind the wheel. So you have to design security 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:52.120 in your into your product from the beginning, and for us, 0:21:52.160 --> 0:21:55.200 we look at all the scenarios of what could happen 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:57.560 from a security standpoint. We have a road map around 0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:00.920 that we developed around that. Now, these these robots or 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:04.000 these robot taxes are also recording all the time, so 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:06.520 they sort of know what's happening inside of them and 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:08.240 around them, So that gives us a little bit of 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:10.560 a of an edge. And then you look at access. 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:13.320 But this is something you just have to pay attention 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:16.440 to understand what's going on in that world and make 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:19.320 sure that you design against it. How many rights have 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:24.040 you taken? A lot our employees, Actually it's not fair, right, 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:26.639 I take a lot of rights both in our L 0:22:26.680 --> 0:22:29.879 three testing fleet as well as in the ground up 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:33.880 ROBOTAXI where I was really it was around Christmas time, 0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:37.200 you know, the pandemic. It's been hard and we're finally 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:41.159 able to offer some of our employees ride. Over two 0:22:41.200 --> 0:22:43.679 hundred people have taken rides, and now it's going to 0:22:43.720 --> 0:22:47.080 be part of just you know, the operation to offer 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:50.160 rides on a continuous basis and that's really cool. Yes, 0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:54.359 oh no, not yet, no no no. So on the 0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:59.080