WEBVTT - A Dollop Crossover | Ben Naddaff-Hafrey on Staten Island and the Revolutionary War 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:16.390 Pushkin. 0:00:20.060 --> 0:00:22.820 Hey, hey, it's Malcolm Gladwell. Before we get into this episode, 0:00:23.240 --> 0:00:24.819 I wanted to let you know about my new book, 0:00:25.259 --> 0:00:27.940 The American Way of Killing. Stay tuned at the end 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:30.620 of the episode to hear a preview and get The 0:00:30.660 --> 0:00:36.470 American Way of Killing at pushkin.fm slash audiobooks or wherever 0:00:36.610 --> 0:00:37.569 audiobooks are sold. 0:00:38.909 --> 0:00:42.330 Hey, Revisionist History listeners. This has been Matt of Halfery. 0:00:43.110 --> 0:00:46.040 A little while ago, As part of my Staten Island summer, 0:00:46.659 --> 0:00:49.160 I went on a history show called The Dollop. It's 0:00:49.180 --> 0:00:52.659 hosted by the comedians Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds, who, 0:00:52.860 --> 0:00:55.200 it turns out, have both done sets on Staten Island 0:00:55.220 --> 0:00:59.220 that turned out poorly. This episode was a comeback special 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:04.110 about an extremely niche topic. When I was reporting the 0:01:04.130 --> 0:01:06.569 Staten Island problem, I spent a day on the island 0:01:06.610 --> 0:01:10.650 with a Revolutionary War historian named Phil Pappas, learning about 0:01:10.690 --> 0:01:13.730 how Staten Islanders really did not want the American Revolution 0:01:13.750 --> 0:01:17.430 to happen. Sadly, that got cut from the show. But 0:01:17.449 --> 0:01:20.009 the guys at The Dollop did a deep, deep dive 0:01:20.090 --> 0:01:23.229 on the topic and came up with an even crazier story. 0:01:23.930 --> 0:01:26.630 And that's the episode you're about to hear today. You 0:01:26.650 --> 0:01:28.590 can listen to more from The Dollop over on their 0:01:28.610 --> 0:01:30.569 show page. And here's our episode. 0:01:31.870 --> 0:01:33.450 My father's dead. You killed him. 0:01:33.550 --> 0:01:34.749 They think that I'm shiny. 0:01:34.889 --> 0:01:34.949 Oh! 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:37.040 I am a pie man! 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:39.360 I'm Pete Rose, and I only go to Gold's Gym, 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:40.380 this one specifically. 0:01:40.419 --> 0:01:41.780 Rumor is that his penis is broken. 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:43.740 And show him where the taco bar was. 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:45.659 His brain just fucking exploded. 0:01:45.949 --> 0:01:49.790 River of cheese! You been drinking any gnome juice? No, officer. 0:01:49.870 --> 0:01:50.890 My dad had a fart chair. 0:01:51.030 --> 0:01:52.230 Hey, cover me. 0:01:55.510 --> 0:01:59.790 You're listening to The Dollop on the All Things Comedy Network. 0:01:59.910 --> 0:02:03.109 This is an American History Podcast where each week I... 0:02:03.990 --> 0:02:07.030 Dave Anthony read a story from American history to a 0:02:07.070 --> 0:02:08.990 guy who grabbed a drink at the wrong time. 0:02:09.210 --> 0:02:10.600 It's spilling. 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:12.820 Gareth Reynolds has no idea what the topic is going 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:15.359 to be about. Good Lord. 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:20.600 But before we jump into the dollop, which we're also 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:25.910 calling the revisionist history dollop because we have a guest. 0:02:26.930 --> 0:02:29.609 We're doing a crossover like when Batman and Robin used 0:02:29.630 --> 0:02:30.390 to do a Scooby-Doo. 0:02:31.410 --> 0:02:33.870 Wait, who's Scooby-Doo? 0:02:34.250 --> 0:02:36.960 We're definitely Scooby-Doo. 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:37.290 100%. 0:02:37.290 --> 0:02:37.620 100%. 0:02:37.620 --> 0:02:39.100 Without questions. 0:02:39.140 --> 0:02:44.820 We have Ben Nadaf-Haffrey joining us. And thank you. Thank 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:46.560 you for joining us, Ben. This has been like in 0:02:46.610 --> 0:02:50.410 the works for a minute. I'm honestly surprised this happened. 0:02:50.690 --> 0:02:53.450 I'm shocked. I'm shocked that– I'm not only shocked that 0:02:53.490 --> 0:02:55.490 this happened, but I was shocked in the first place 0:02:55.510 --> 0:02:58.170 that you guys immediately gravitated towards this story because it 0:02:58.270 --> 0:02:59.260 is a deep cut. 0:03:00.710 --> 0:03:03.070 Well, it is a deep, but I like deep cuts. 0:03:03.110 --> 0:03:05.890 It's also our buddy did it. And, and then Dave 0:03:05.930 --> 0:03:08.250 was like, this is crazy. So Dave's been working on 0:03:08.330 --> 0:03:11.620 it in, in some capacity as well. But this is 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:14.780 because you did a series on Staten Island. 0:03:15.140 --> 0:03:15.440 Yes. 0:03:16.020 --> 0:03:17.600 And then this was kind of one that we were 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:19.960 there was just kind of the leftover stuff. 0:03:20.450 --> 0:03:22.330 And we were like, well, let's do it together. So 0:03:23.070 --> 0:03:25.150 what is the Staten Island series called and where can 0:03:25.170 --> 0:03:26.200 people listen to it? 0:03:26.470 --> 0:03:29.540 So it's called The Staten Island Problem. And you can 0:03:29.580 --> 0:03:31.360 listen to it on the Revisionist History podcast. 0:03:31.380 --> 0:03:34.180 That's what Colin Jost and Pete Davidson suffered from. 0:03:34.300 --> 0:03:38.180 Yeah, when their ferry boat is, you know, they bought 0:03:38.220 --> 0:03:41.490 that Staten Island ferry and they've for like a decade 0:03:41.530 --> 0:03:43.230 tried to figure out what to do with it. And 0:03:43.390 --> 0:03:45.450 just like a month ago, a state official was like, 0:03:45.650 --> 0:03:48.410 I've got a great idea. You should sink it and 0:03:48.430 --> 0:03:50.370 we can make an artificial coral reef. 0:03:50.890 --> 0:03:52.360 I know. 0:03:52.810 --> 0:03:56.040 I think there's– it's obviously been a terrible investment, but 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:58.840 there's got to be something about being like officially sinking. 0:03:58.860 --> 0:03:59.730 It must be a tough one. 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:04.990 But anyway, so the Staten Island problem and– It's about 0:04:05.010 --> 0:04:07.410 Staten Island's attempt to secede from New York City. 0:04:07.490 --> 0:04:09.830 For those who don't know, Staten Island is one of 0:04:09.850 --> 0:04:13.490 the five boroughs in New York. And the reason you 0:04:13.530 --> 0:04:17.300 may not know that, you know, it's Brooklyn, Bronx, Queens, Manhattan, 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:22.120 Staten Island. Staten Island calls itself the forgotten borough, as 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:26.360 in like the unloved borough, the one that no one 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:30.320 ever pays attention to. It's true. It's totally true. That's 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:32.140 like why I did this story. I was like, they're 0:04:32.180 --> 0:04:35.029 kind of right. Just want to leave. 0:04:35.090 --> 0:04:36.630 They're being pouty though, right? 0:04:36.810 --> 0:04:39.300 Oh, the chip on the shoulder is like core to 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:41.580 the identity. That's just like, you gotta. 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:43.420 Should they secede? 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:47.080 Yes. Yes, absolutely. When I lived in New York, I 0:04:47.220 --> 0:04:50.760 went there to do stand up once and it was 0:04:50.780 --> 0:04:53.670 like going to another country and they hated you. 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:59.530 I would arguably say the craziest, like when I was 0:04:59.570 --> 0:05:03.330 first starting the craziest, uh, set I'd ever gone through 0:05:03.770 --> 0:05:07.550 was in Staten Island where everyone just yelled at you 0:05:07.630 --> 0:05:10.730 during your set and every comedian went through it. So 0:05:10.750 --> 0:05:12.450 you were kind of like, it's not me, but you 0:05:12.470 --> 0:05:15.289 would just be up there just fighting. 0:05:15.350 --> 0:05:16.910 It was, I was like, what is this? 0:05:16.930 --> 0:05:17.870 Was it a grandpa's? 0:05:18.390 --> 0:05:19.130 I don't remember if it. 0:05:19.110 --> 0:05:19.570 Was a grandpa's. 0:05:19.610 --> 0:05:19.710 Yeah. 0:05:19.810 --> 0:05:21.330 There was a comedy club called grandpa's. 0:05:21.390 --> 0:05:22.210 It wasn't a comedy club. 0:05:22.230 --> 0:05:25.190 You're like notionally I'm in New York, but this is not. Yeah. 0:05:25.350 --> 0:05:28.450 I was like the train came here, but that's, it's different. 0:05:28.590 --> 0:05:31.540 It didn't work. Like the train got me half the way. 0:05:31.820 --> 0:05:33.500 You can't, you got to take a ship the rest 0:05:33.540 --> 0:05:35.260 of the way, like a half hour out to sea. 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:38.060 Yeah, which is just never good. 0:05:38.500 --> 0:05:41.510 No, but I think that's where the reason this story 0:05:42.010 --> 0:05:44.530 that you guys have actually done, and I know very 0:05:44.570 --> 0:05:49.190 little about ultimately, but it's about how, why I gravitate 0:05:49.230 --> 0:05:52.930 towards this story is because it shows that Staten Island 0:05:52.980 --> 0:05:56.000 is like eternally not part of New York City. They're just, 0:05:56.180 --> 0:05:59.530 they are always on the other side. So I'm happy 0:05:59.550 --> 0:06:00.630 that you guys are doing this. 0:06:00.690 --> 0:06:02.430 When I was going through this, I was like, oh, 0:06:02.470 --> 0:06:06.230 it's exactly the same. It's 200 years later and it's 0:06:06.290 --> 0:06:08.490 exactly the same. 250 years later. 0:06:08.740 --> 0:06:09.630 I don't understand. 200. 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:12.960 I will not allow that last celebration for the 250 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:13.440 to be real. 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:14.880 I want to redo. 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:17.320 I want to do a 255 once we maybe get 0:06:17.340 --> 0:06:20.560 through some of this, which we won't. Anyway, well, welcome 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:24.300 to the listeners from yours. And we encourage our listeners 0:06:24.340 --> 0:06:28.409 to go check out the– staten island problem and then 0:06:28.470 --> 0:06:32.770 weigh in and uh now let's do whatever the hell 0:06:32.830 --> 0:06:39.710 this is. 0:06:36.470 --> 0:06:39.349 1738 dave yells. 0:06:39.110 --> 0:06:42.410 The day yeah i've heard enough that i know that. 0:06:42.370 --> 0:06:44.469 Okay i don't like the way you put that to 0:06:44.490 --> 0:06:46.890 be i've heard enough that's i've heard enough. 0:06:47.330 --> 0:06:49.450 That's how a lot of people describe our show i've 0:06:49.490 --> 0:06:50.120 heard enough. 0:06:49.980 --> 0:06:50.900 Yeah i've heard enough. 0:06:51.870 --> 0:06:53.710 I saw one comment on the one I listened to 0:06:53.750 --> 0:06:56.089 that was like when they get– it's like usually in 0:06:56.110 --> 0:06:59.530 a dollop episode when they're 25 minutes in and like 0:06:59.690 --> 0:07:01.670 you have the main character is like four years old 0:07:01.730 --> 0:07:04.890 and he's lived in three brothels. Like that's par for 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:07.100 the course. But when you're like 25 minutes in and 0:07:07.130 --> 0:07:09.440 he's like middle-aged, you know some crazy stuff is coming. 0:07:09.460 --> 0:07:13.580 That's right. Yeah, that is very true. Yes. Yeah, the 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:15.940 quicker they age, the more you know it's a crazy story. 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:18.240 Yeah, yeah. Like not a lot known about his boyhood. 0:07:18.260 --> 0:07:19.140 You're like, this is going to be bad. 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:19.520 Oh, boy. 0:07:19.540 --> 0:07:19.620 Yeah. 0:07:21.270 --> 0:07:24.770 Uh christopher billup he has two p's on the end 0:07:24.790 --> 0:07:26.750 of his name which really throws me off i want 0:07:26.770 --> 0:07:27.850 to go billup it's. 0:07:27.790 --> 0:07:29.710 Like verizono with the ends. 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:33.380 That's right uh was born on staten island new york 0:07:33.900 --> 0:07:36.440 he would be the oldest of eight alive kids born 0:07:36.500 --> 0:07:39.380 to thomas and sarah farmer billup now we always say 0:07:39.420 --> 0:07:41.280 alive kids because they had a lot more like if 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:46.239 you had if you had eight alive yeah we don't. 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:48.790 We don't count the dead ones here i don't know 0:07:48.810 --> 0:07:50.090 about you ben on yours. 0:07:49.850 --> 0:07:53.150 But we i don't know it's the pre-vaccine world there's 0:07:53.190 --> 0:07:55.790 so many that passed you know what i mean it's 0:07:55.890 --> 0:07:56.710 eight there were. 0:07:56.650 --> 0:07:59.170 Eight living descendants in this family. 0:07:59.030 --> 0:08:02.030 Eight living yeah he had eight that's remarkable he had 0:08:02.070 --> 0:08:03.610 seven brothers and sisters that's way. 0:08:03.590 --> 0:08:06.560 More affordable on staten island eight that is numbers too 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:08.580 that really has to be. 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:10.280 Because you're batting above average you gotta be. 0:08:10.300 --> 0:08:12.340 Putting out 20 to get eight yeah there's like a 0:08:12.380 --> 0:08:15.580 there's also a robust mosquito population on staten island in 0:08:15.620 --> 0:08:17.660 that era um You. 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:20.480 Know, a lot of disease from mosquitoes. So they're really 0:08:21.140 --> 0:08:22.920 crushing it. 0:08:22.940 --> 0:08:25.320 Mosquitoes are really hung in there with their disease. 0:08:25.340 --> 0:08:27.360 They really don't like them. I was driving here and 0:08:27.380 --> 0:08:29.600 there's one in my car. I'm like, what's happening right now? 0:08:31.060 --> 0:08:32.120 I'm leaving town. 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:33.800 Keep going. 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:37.710 Keep going. Let's go to Tijuana. Get me out of here. 0:08:37.790 --> 0:08:39.230 Get me to Staten Island. I gotta go back. 0:08:39.250 --> 0:08:40.710 You live for half a day. 0:08:40.730 --> 0:08:47.829 Okay, so Christopher's dad... Major Thomas Billup was the son 0:08:47.849 --> 0:08:51.030 of Anne Billup, who married a colonel. And Anne was 0:08:51.069 --> 0:08:54.330 the daughter of a Royal Navy officer, another Christopher Billup, 0:08:54.410 --> 0:08:58.639 who was awarded 932 acres of land on the southern 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:01.740 tip of Staten Island. And he builds a big stone 0:09:01.780 --> 0:09:07.420 manor house. The land is named Bentley Manor. So they're 0:09:07.959 --> 0:09:10.480 loving it. It's pretty sweet. It's a lot of land. 0:09:11.140 --> 0:09:16.500 Yeah, 930 acres on Staten Island is two on regular scale. 0:09:16.540 --> 0:09:19.500 One two-bedroom apartment. 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:21.439 It's a studio with a stove. 0:09:23.939 --> 0:09:26.860 So young Chris is destined to be in the military. 0:09:27.010 --> 0:09:31.290 He's from a military family. And eventually he does and 0:09:31.309 --> 0:09:35.230 he becomes a colonel, which is what everyone on Staten 0:09:35.390 --> 0:09:40.489 Island eventually starts to call him. So by the 1770s, 0:09:40.550 --> 0:09:41.509 he's known as Colonel. 0:09:41.809 --> 0:09:44.300 By the powers of deduction, you would say there were 0:09:44.339 --> 0:09:46.889 not a lot of Colonels from Staten Island. 0:09:47.050 --> 0:09:47.370 Otherwise. 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.780 Remember, we're the Scooby-Doo part. So I just want to 0:09:53.140 --> 0:09:54.660 be very clear. We're the Scooby half. 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:57.660 Does that mean I have to, like, growl Batman voiceless? 0:09:59.620 --> 0:10:03.349 No, you can be what Dave's kid called the Wacky Batman. 0:10:03.349 --> 0:10:06.650 Yeah, I'll be a wacky Batman. I'll be a 1960s, like, kapow, 0:10:06.689 --> 0:10:07.630 bazinga Batman. 0:10:08.229 --> 0:10:11.329 Yeah, yeah. 0:10:11.449 --> 0:10:13.920 So Bentley Manor had been built up over the years, 0:10:14.300 --> 0:10:19.059 and now this Christopher Billup owns it. So there's the 0:10:19.079 --> 0:10:21.020 stone house on the water that his grandfather built. There's 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:23.979 four more houses that he would rent out. And a 0:10:24.020 --> 0:10:26.880 neighbor remembers him as he's a very tall, slim man. 0:10:26.900 --> 0:10:26.980 Sure. 0:10:28.900 --> 0:10:30.700 Staten Island at this point, mostly farms. 0:10:31.420 --> 0:10:31.800 Okay. 0:10:31.839 --> 0:10:32.579 If you can believe that. 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:32.959 I can't. 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:36.719 Everything else is agriculture. There's wheat and orchards. 0:10:36.739 --> 0:10:39.880 What is a staten? Oh, well. 0:10:40.439 --> 0:10:41.500 It's a Dutch term. 0:10:42.199 --> 0:10:42.480 Is it? 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:43.079 For what? 0:10:43.239 --> 0:10:43.900 I think so. 0:10:43.939 --> 0:10:48.079 I don't know. Well, look at you asking questions that 0:10:48.099 --> 0:10:48.780 can't be answered. 0:10:49.239 --> 0:10:50.319 What is a staten? 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:51.160 You know what I mean? 0:10:51.179 --> 0:10:53.550 There's a place called the staten on Staten Island that's 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:54.269 very famous. 0:10:54.839 --> 0:10:55.249 Staten. 0:10:56.449 --> 0:11:01.110 Oh, interesting. It was probably at the time called... It's 0:11:01.260 --> 0:11:02.779 Richmond for a while, too. Oh. 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:05.660 There's Richmond Town in this, yeah. 0:11:05.699 --> 0:11:06.480 A weird change. 0:11:06.579 --> 0:11:07.079 Okay. 0:11:07.140 --> 0:11:09.880 Staten Island by Dutch explorers. 0:11:10.079 --> 0:11:10.520 Staten. 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:14.579 Name honored the Staten Generale, which was the parliament of 0:11:14.599 --> 0:11:16.699 the Republic of the Seven United Netherlands. 0:11:17.699 --> 0:11:19.900 I thought it had something to do with the Seven United. 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:22.809 You should have known that, yeah. Yeah, I'm... That's his specialty. 0:11:23.290 --> 0:11:24.650 Rikus, Rikus, Ben. 0:11:27.449 --> 0:11:31.670 Okay, so there's wheat, orchards, cattle, salt hay off the marshes, 0:11:31.849 --> 0:11:33.030 oysters and clams. 0:11:33.089 --> 0:11:34.170 Big player back then. 0:11:34.349 --> 0:11:37.150 Out of the shallows. They'd sell those and sell everything 0:11:37.170 --> 0:11:40.499 in New York City mostly, but they also would sell 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:41.160 it to the British. 0:11:41.179 --> 0:11:41.920 Sure. 0:11:42.020 --> 0:11:45.319 Have you ever read about the oysters in New York, Ben? 0:11:45.479 --> 0:11:46.679 The whole oyster situation? 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:49.519 I knew about the oysters on Staten Island, but I 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:51.540 didn't know about the rest of New York. 0:11:52.359 --> 0:11:54.270 There is an amazing book, which I wish I knew 0:11:54.290 --> 0:11:56.349 the title of right now, about oysters in New York. 0:11:57.290 --> 0:11:57.989 it's incredible. 0:11:58.229 --> 0:12:01.100 Oh, you also wanted to mention the book that you 0:12:01.140 --> 0:12:03.199 based a lot of your stuff on quickly, but who. 0:12:04.839 --> 0:12:07.740 Is that? Well, so yeah, this, this, all of everything 0:12:07.839 --> 0:12:11.199 we know about Staten Island and the American revolution comes 0:12:11.300 --> 0:12:14.899 from this historian named Phil Pappas, who is himself a 0:12:14.939 --> 0:12:17.929 Staten Islander born and bred and wrote this amazing book 0:12:17.949 --> 0:12:24.249 called that ever loyal Island. And he's condescending. Well, you'll 0:12:24.290 --> 0:12:26.920 see why when you get further into it. into the 0:12:26.959 --> 0:12:29.720 story but it's like it's a fantastic book. 0:12:30.179 --> 0:12:32.730 The oysters in the hudson were insane. 0:12:32.670 --> 0:12:38.389 Right yeah i mean the we we we americans just 0:12:38.530 --> 0:12:40.819 lived on oysters for a long time and ended up 0:12:40.859 --> 0:12:43.099 just decimating yeah oyster. 0:12:42.839 --> 0:12:45.359 It's like everything else that we get where you're like 0:12:46.130 --> 0:12:48.370 If you just did it a little slower, it could 0:12:48.390 --> 0:12:50.790 be forever. And we're like, no, we will eat it 0:12:51.010 --> 0:12:52.670 all and then no one will have anything. 0:12:52.709 --> 0:12:54.280 But I'm hungry now. 0:12:54.949 --> 0:12:58.159 I'm hungry to eat all the oysters now and make money. 0:12:59.040 --> 0:12:59.939 Yeah, it was really good. 0:12:59.959 --> 0:13:03.800 My only complaint, no indigenous people have died on this venture. 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.879 We did two episodes on it. It's really crazy. Okay, 0:13:07.959 --> 0:13:11.360 so they're selling to New York City. And then in 0:13:11.380 --> 0:13:13.979 the years leading up to the revolution, a lot of 0:13:14.199 --> 0:13:17.129 what they're producing– is sold to the Royal Navy. A 0:13:17.989 --> 0:13:21.669 warship anchoring there, that means hundreds of men who need 0:13:21.689 --> 0:13:25.990 bread and beef and fresh water, and the Navy pays 0:13:26.069 --> 0:13:27.829 in silver, so it's a good deal. 0:13:27.910 --> 0:13:28.290 Okay. 0:13:29.329 --> 0:13:32.390 And when a king's ship needs water, it fills its 0:13:32.550 --> 0:13:35.910 casks at a spring on the island's northeast shore, a 0:13:35.949 --> 0:13:37.749 spot that is called the watering place. 0:13:38.209 --> 0:13:39.210 Very good title. 0:13:39.910 --> 0:13:40.929 You know what you're getting into. 0:13:41.229 --> 0:13:43.359 Yeah. I thought this was a brothel. 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:47.759 It's very much like a surfer. Any surf spot is 0:13:47.819 --> 0:13:48.559 named after what they. 0:13:49.439 --> 0:13:50.099 Restaurants. 0:13:50.140 --> 0:13:50.420 Yeah. 0:13:50.699 --> 0:13:57.929 Big Rock. It's all what you see from the surfboard. 0:13:58.630 --> 0:14:02.170 Colonel Billup has been in charge of the Islands Militia 0:14:02.209 --> 0:14:05.190 now for about three years, which is called Billup's Corps 0:14:05.410 --> 0:14:08.359 of Staten Island Militia. Okay. 0:14:08.719 --> 0:14:12.360 Once again, we're just naming things extremely aptly. 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:14.459 Well, it's also how book titles were, you know, when 0:14:14.479 --> 0:14:16.099 it would just be like, he actually wrote a book 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.479 about it called The Endless Forests in the Area Where 0:14:19.540 --> 0:14:22.359 I Lived for Five Years and Eventually Left Because My 0:14:22.430 --> 0:14:24.490 Wife Had Tuberculosis. 0:14:24.570 --> 0:14:25.669 I don't need to read the book now. 0:14:25.850 --> 0:14:27.030 Yeah, exactly. 0:14:29.690 --> 0:14:33.050 Uh, so that's a peacetime appointment. Obviously there's no war 0:14:33.070 --> 0:14:36.180 when he gets appointed. Now on the Island, there's five churches. 0:14:36.220 --> 0:14:39.520 The biggest is St. Andrews, which is the Angelican church 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:41.680 at Richmond town. Nice. 0:14:41.739 --> 0:14:42.100 Yeah. 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:43.259 That's what we're just talking about. 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:43.480 Yeah. 0:14:43.500 --> 0:14:45.680 You don't need to yell about it. I'm gonna. Out 0:14:45.850 --> 0:14:48.509 of the, uh, out at New Dorp. 0:14:49.479 --> 0:14:50.040 Oh, come on. 0:14:50.140 --> 0:14:51.560 Yeah, there's a place called New Dorp. 0:14:51.580 --> 0:14:51.940 Stop. 0:14:53.300 --> 0:14:55.220 I don't want to even know where Dorp came from. 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:55.720 Dorp? 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:59.900 Couldn't that sound more like the Carlos Mencia sound he 0:14:59.940 --> 0:15:00.600 made when he was. 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:01.300 Calling, Dorp! 0:15:02.580 --> 0:15:04.300 Dorp! You stub your toe. 0:15:04.820 --> 0:15:05.320 Dorp! 0:15:05.340 --> 0:15:09.200 It was the alt to Homer's Doe. It's either Doe 0:15:09.250 --> 0:15:09.580 or Dorp. 0:15:10.390 --> 0:15:14.690 What is the alternate universe Simpsons thing? This just triggered 0:15:14.710 --> 0:15:19.460 some deep Simpsons knowledge. It's like the Shelbyville Simpsons or something, right? 0:15:19.660 --> 0:15:21.100 Oh, right, yeah. 0:15:22.150 --> 0:15:22.590 Oh, no, no. 0:15:22.630 --> 0:15:27.899 When he's replaced by Russians, there's a film version of 0:15:27.940 --> 0:15:29.780 The Simpsons that they're trying to pass off as the 0:15:29.820 --> 0:15:30.920 real Simpsons family. 0:15:30.940 --> 0:15:33.420 Oh, I kind of remember that. That just takes me 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:35.500 to when the Flanders have a family reunion. 0:15:35.859 --> 0:15:36.680 Sure, yeah. 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:38.859 But yeah, I can't remember. 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:42.580 There's like the fake Homer goes, duh, oh, or something 0:15:42.620 --> 0:15:43.060 like that. 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:45.759 I know the English Flanders goes. 0:15:48.810 --> 0:15:54.430 Great googly moogly moo. 0:15:58.989 --> 0:16:02.729 So at a new dorp there is a Moravian church 0:16:03.030 --> 0:16:05.690 and the minister lives beside it with his family his 0:16:05.729 --> 0:16:08.470 name is Hector Gambold and Gambold writes a lot of 0:16:08.550 --> 0:16:11.519 letters and so that's a lot of those survived and 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:15.649 that's a lot of what we know that's helpful Yeah, 0:16:15.670 --> 0:16:16.590 so write letters, people. 0:16:16.690 --> 0:16:16.869 Yeah. 0:16:17.989 --> 0:16:21.810 Didn't help Comey, but anyway. 0:16:21.850 --> 0:16:22.050 No. 0:16:22.330 --> 0:16:24.520 Comey was like, but my journal. They were like, yeah, 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:27.600 get out of here. My diary. 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:30.920 Yeah, definitely diary. Unless your name's Fauci, then don't diary. 0:16:31.140 --> 0:16:31.499 Don't keep. 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:33.139 I met Barbara Streisand. 0:16:34.540 --> 0:16:36.780 On the island, there's five. Oh, I already did that. 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:40.770 So the trouble starts, right? Over taxes, the colonies are 0:16:40.850 --> 0:16:41.570 paying to the crown. 0:16:41.850 --> 0:16:42.070 Sure. 0:16:42.090 --> 0:16:42.229 Right? 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:45.800 There's a big shopping boycott, as we'll call it. The 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.279 British Parliament closed the port of Boston because of the 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:52.879 Boston Tea Party. Continental Congress answers by agreeing that no 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:58.230 colony will buy British goods until Parliament backs down. And so, 0:16:58.310 --> 0:17:02.690 of course, Richmond County on Staten Island wants nothing to 0:17:02.750 --> 0:17:05.300 do with this. They want... They're not going to change anything. 0:17:05.460 --> 0:17:08.320 They're like, but can't we still buy maybe just a little? 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:11.859 It's so nice to sell to the British. That's what happens. 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:12.480 That's the problem. 0:17:12.780 --> 0:17:13.540 It's a big market, guys. 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:15.520 Pete Davidson and Colin Jost are like, now's our time. 0:17:16.360 --> 0:17:17.420 Anyone want to buy this? 0:17:20.420 --> 0:17:23.780 So Staten Island refuses to join this. And the colonel 0:17:23.820 --> 0:17:27.460 does that personally. He sits in the New York Assembly 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:32.290 and votes down every measure that favors the Congress. And 0:17:32.310 --> 0:17:34.150 when the assembly refused to- You. 0:17:34.030 --> 0:17:34.490 Gotta love it. 0:17:34.770 --> 0:17:35.030 Yeah. 0:17:35.210 --> 0:17:35.470 No. 0:17:35.870 --> 0:17:36.110 No. 0:17:36.670 --> 0:17:37.030 No. 0:17:37.610 --> 0:17:40.370 No. No. 0:17:40.390 --> 0:17:44.260 No. That one. No. 0:17:44.300 --> 0:17:45.129 No. 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:47.340 Oh, that's a no. 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:53.020 When the assembly refuses to send delegates to Philadelphia, somebody 0:17:53.060 --> 0:17:56.980 proposes going around it and putting the question straight to 0:17:57.020 --> 0:18:00.880 the people of Richmond County. But the colonel goes to 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:04.340 that meeting and beats it there, too, by a large majority. 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:06.580 So it's clear Staten Island wants nothing to do with 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:08.639 any of this business. They just want to be able 0:18:08.660 --> 0:18:09.360 to sell their stuff. 0:18:09.420 --> 0:18:10.200 Yep, they're happy. 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:11.440 And they're happy with the British. 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:13.440 They're like, this is not so bad. 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:15.800 Yeah, it's pretty good. 0:18:16.060 --> 0:18:17.840 I'm making money over here. 0:18:18.290 --> 0:18:19.869 You guys keep doing that. That's helping. 0:18:21.410 --> 0:18:25.670 Then in April of 1775, the shooting starts outside Boston 0:18:25.710 --> 0:18:30.160 at Lexington. And the first thing the colonel does after 0:18:30.250 --> 0:18:33.770 Lexington is to write to the British Army and ask 0:18:33.790 --> 0:18:34.610 them not to come. 0:18:35.070 --> 0:18:35.410 Okay. 0:18:35.890 --> 0:18:38.530 And he signs a letter to General Gage, who is 0:18:38.670 --> 0:18:42.600 the British Army's commander, requesting that no troops be sent 0:18:42.740 --> 0:18:46.240 into New York. And his explanation given nine years later 0:18:46.860 --> 0:18:50.060 said he was, quote, hoping the flame would blow over. 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:56.440 Let's just ride this one out. So good. 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:59.200 Some guys got shot. Some other guys got shot. 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:00.960 I don't see this lasting very long. 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:02.200 It's going to blow over. 0:19:02.260 --> 0:19:03.860 I don't think this is going to go on for 0:19:03.900 --> 0:19:07.300 too much longer. If you could give us a week, 0:19:07.340 --> 0:19:08.960 that would be really helpful. 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:14.359 So he spent a year, in his words, quote, keeping 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:17.680 the inhabitants of the island quiet till the arrival of 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:22.940 British troops. Meanwhile, Staten Island will not stop selling to 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:23.710 the British Navy. 0:19:23.900 --> 0:19:24.409 Oh, God. 0:19:24.430 --> 0:19:27.270 They're the king's ships, right? And as far as Staten 0:19:27.310 --> 0:19:29.170 Island is concerned, this is the king's island. 0:19:29.790 --> 0:19:32.740 The king would request more oysters. He's gone peckish again. 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:35.160 What, are you just going to leave all these oysters 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:35.740 in the water? 0:19:35.900 --> 0:19:36.180 Yeah. 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:36.639 Come on. 0:19:37.940 --> 0:19:39.300 Secret oyster handoffs. 0:19:40.220 --> 0:19:43.060 There's also like, don't they, somewhere in here, they're also like, 0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:45.580 can't they propose like a truce? They're like, can't we 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:47.960 just like make friends with the British again? It might 0:19:47.980 --> 0:19:49.530 be just a way to work this out. 0:19:50.030 --> 0:19:54.010 We made a side truce with the British. We are 0:19:54.030 --> 0:19:56.609 an island. I want to remind everyone of that. 0:19:58.230 --> 0:20:00.940 So, of course, the colonies. are now pissed that Staten 0:20:01.020 --> 0:20:05.820 Island won't join the boycott. So they start another boycott. 0:20:06.540 --> 0:20:10.580 New Jersey stops buying Staten Island's produce until the island 0:20:10.740 --> 0:20:18.400 appoints an enforcement committee. So the island... appoints an enforcement committee, 0:20:18.540 --> 0:20:19.790 but then just ignores it. 0:20:21.420 --> 0:20:24.540 This committee, when I went around the island with Phil, 0:20:24.700 --> 0:20:26.859 the guy who wrote the book with all this, he 0:20:26.900 --> 0:20:28.490 took me on a tour of all these sites. It 0:20:28.510 --> 0:20:31.590 was amazing. Every single one of them is next to 0:20:31.650 --> 0:20:35.510 a no-fault divorce lawsuit clinic. 0:20:35.710 --> 0:20:36.490 Oh, my God. 0:20:36.610 --> 0:20:38.670 It's final form. We went to the place where this 0:20:38.690 --> 0:20:44.790 committee met. which is still preserved. And I was like, 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:46.230 what did they do here? And he's like, you know, 0:20:46.310 --> 0:20:49.190 just kind of, he's kind of like threw a ball 0:20:49.230 --> 0:20:51.750 against the wall, sort of like, just like, it was 0:20:51.770 --> 0:20:53.910 just kind of like, like met to meet. They were 0:20:53.950 --> 0:20:55.630 just sort of like, yeah, we're not going to look 0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:58.040 into that report of disloyalty. 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:01.300 So just pure. 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:01.680 Yeah. 0:21:01.740 --> 0:21:04.170 Just purely just like, yeah, we're working on it. 0:21:04.220 --> 0:21:04.340 Yeah. 0:21:05.980 --> 0:21:07.440 Most of our L.A. government committees. 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:08.280 I was going to. 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:12.070 Say, it reminds you very much of, like, the parliamentarian 0:21:12.130 --> 0:21:13.510 role or something like that, where. 0:21:13.610 --> 0:21:16.130 You're like, here's what I think. And everyone's like, cool, 0:21:16.330 --> 0:21:17.010 go fuck yourself. 0:21:17.310 --> 0:21:18.190 Here's the point. 0:21:18.270 --> 0:21:19.830 It's just like letting it die in committee. 0:21:20.230 --> 0:21:22.150 Yeah, right. Yeah. 0:21:22.170 --> 0:21:24.130 Oh, that's very interesting. Is this the first let it 0:21:24.170 --> 0:21:24.830 die in committee? 0:21:24.970 --> 0:21:29.920 Oh, man. Aw. I love that it's just all under 0:21:29.940 --> 0:21:31.580 the framework of let it blow over. 0:21:32.060 --> 0:21:32.960 Let it blow over. 0:21:32.980 --> 0:21:34.580 Let's just let this cool down. 0:21:34.700 --> 0:21:39.970 Two, three weeks. Two, probably two, maybe three. It's called 0:21:39.990 --> 0:21:40.690 an excursion. 0:21:42.030 --> 0:21:42.230 Right. 0:21:42.250 --> 0:21:44.810 So they're ignoring it. They're just trading with the crown still. 0:21:45.170 --> 0:21:49.790 And in February 1776, the Continental Congress writes the county 0:21:50.610 --> 0:21:54.780 into its minutes for, quote, Amnesty and opposition to the 0:21:54.860 --> 0:21:59.120 system and measures adopted for preserving the liberties of America. 0:22:00.340 --> 0:22:01.560 That's not good. You don't want to be written in 0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:01.960 for that. 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:04.190 No, it's pretty targeted, honestly. 0:22:04.750 --> 0:22:05.550 Hey, traitors. 0:22:05.610 --> 0:22:10.370 Yeah, yeah. So they put us in the minutes. 0:22:12.570 --> 0:22:13.510 Always bad news. 0:22:13.530 --> 0:22:14.270 Oh, boy. 0:22:14.330 --> 0:22:17.810 Never great, but we are officially in the minutes. 0:22:18.090 --> 0:22:19.700 All right. I can still sell oysters, though, right? 0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:22.060 I mean, yeah, but we're on notice. I mean, we're 0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:23.400 in the minutes, and that's never good. 0:22:23.580 --> 0:22:25.200 So we got to get these oysters going quick. 0:22:25.220 --> 0:22:26.500 It's not. I think you're taking away different. 0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:27.220 Get them out the door. 0:22:27.280 --> 0:22:29.440 It's not. Again, I'm sort of saying we're in a 0:22:29.460 --> 0:22:31.940 dark spot. But yeah, let's sell them. 0:22:31.980 --> 0:22:36.379 Yeah, get the oysters out there. At this point, the rebels, 0:22:36.580 --> 0:22:39.620 as we'll call the us, the Americans. 0:22:39.740 --> 0:22:40.020 Sure. 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:42.100 The mainlanders. Yeah. 0:22:42.700 --> 0:22:46.060 The rebels hold New York City. So that April, Continental 0:22:46.220 --> 0:22:50.180 soldiers take up posts at the watering place, standing with 0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:53.400 rifles between the Royal Navy and the island's drinking water. 0:22:54.750 --> 0:22:57.910 That's got to– I mean you don't want to parch 0:22:58.090 --> 0:22:58.910 the Royal Navy. 0:22:58.930 --> 0:22:59.830 You don't want them parched. 0:22:59.850 --> 0:23:02.910 You can't even get to the no-fault divorce place anymore. 0:23:03.450 --> 0:23:03.510 No. 0:23:05.450 --> 0:23:06.660 Well, we're going to have to behead her. 0:23:09.430 --> 0:23:13.110 But what the islanders do is just row out to 0:23:13.130 --> 0:23:15.170 the warships to do business with them anyway. 0:23:16.390 --> 0:23:20.520 When you watch that, you're just like, what the hell. 0:23:20.200 --> 0:23:20.740 Are they doing? 0:23:20.800 --> 0:23:24.040 It's just like a tiny sailboat inching along the horizon. 0:23:24.120 --> 0:23:27.760 Loaded up with a cartoon level of oysters. They're going 0:23:27.780 --> 0:23:33.890 to go bad. They're fucking eating the oysters. Are they shucking? 0:23:33.910 --> 0:23:34.490 What? 0:23:36.810 --> 0:23:43.000 By June, Washington, that's George, Washington is demanding an investigation 0:23:43.100 --> 0:23:47.810 into reports that his own riflemen are taking bribes to 0:23:47.890 --> 0:23:51.130 row the Islanders out. I just. 0:23:51.550 --> 0:23:52.970 This is actually the first fairy. 0:23:52.990 --> 0:23:59.960 I can't. Yeah, it's not a bad idea. I've often... 0:23:59.580 --> 0:24:00.480 I would say. 0:24:00.980 --> 0:24:03.800 Ben, the thing I've learned on this show more than anything, 0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:06.900 which is why we say that history repeats itself, or 0:24:06.920 --> 0:24:10.270 at least rhymes. I can never get over that it 0:24:10.530 --> 0:24:12.550 always has existed. 0:24:13.030 --> 0:24:13.630 That it's just like. 0:24:13.650 --> 0:24:17.830 It's just always been thus. Rhymes find a way, you know, 0:24:17.870 --> 0:24:18.630 no matter what. 0:24:19.210 --> 0:24:19.889 Yeah, always. 0:24:20.400 --> 0:24:21.560 It's just so funny. 0:24:21.580 --> 0:24:23.720 You guys are like, you're going to give me $ 10? Okay, 0:24:23.800 --> 0:24:24.700 I'll roll you out there. 0:24:24.720 --> 0:24:25.960 Yeah, I have no principles. 0:24:26.080 --> 0:24:29.270 It's like our new country sounds nice, but I mean, really. 0:24:29.530 --> 0:24:33.210 But also, my country sounds really good, too. That'd be great. 0:24:34.910 --> 0:24:38.270 So Washington is pissed. He's just across the water in 0:24:38.290 --> 0:24:41.190 New York, and he writes that the people of Staten Island, quote, 0:24:41.830 --> 0:24:46.390 after the fairest professions have shown themselves our inveterate enemies. 0:24:46.810 --> 0:24:46.970 Wow. 0:24:48.060 --> 0:24:49.000 Now this is, yeah. 0:24:49.060 --> 0:24:49.660 That's bad. 0:24:49.760 --> 0:24:50.900 It's in the minutes again. 0:24:51.300 --> 0:24:54.940 Yeah, is that bad when George Washington calls your island 0:24:55.000 --> 0:24:55.540 an enemy? 0:24:59.380 --> 0:25:00.520 Rowing out oysters. 0:25:00.540 --> 0:25:03.210 Man, we've really put our chips down now, guys. 0:25:05.010 --> 0:25:07.050 Look, are we in or are we out, guys? 0:25:07.110 --> 0:25:07.510 I don't know. 0:25:07.910 --> 0:25:09.450 How far do we want to take this shit? 0:25:11.130 --> 0:25:13.410 I am amazed that Staten Island ever became part of 0:25:13.430 --> 0:25:14.270 New York City. 0:25:14.330 --> 0:25:15.070 It is crazy. 0:25:15.290 --> 0:25:18.200 It is geologically a part of New Jersey. It's like 0:25:18.240 --> 0:25:21.000 spiritually and geologically, it is New Jersey. 0:25:21.500 --> 0:25:22.300 It's much closer. 0:25:22.320 --> 0:25:24.000 It's way closer to New Jersey. 0:25:24.020 --> 0:25:26.660 I understand fighting that, though. I understand fighting that. 0:25:27.380 --> 0:25:31.950 There's an annexation movement. Oh, to join New Jersey? In 2025, 0:25:31.940 --> 0:25:34.700 I think it's still afoot, maybe. The Republicans in New 0:25:34.740 --> 0:25:37.110 Jersey are like, it would be helpful to have that 0:25:37.270 --> 0:25:37.990 island here. 0:25:38.010 --> 0:25:38.350 Oh, yeah. 0:25:38.370 --> 0:25:40.970 I bet it would. At some point, they'll blow up 0:25:40.990 --> 0:25:41.930 the Verrazano Bridge. 0:25:42.920 --> 0:25:46.100 That was floated during the secession movement. They were like, 0:25:46.140 --> 0:25:51.660 when this happens, we'll blow up the Verrazano. 0:25:51.760 --> 0:25:56.640 It's kind of awesome. In 2025, to be like, we 0:25:57.120 --> 0:25:57.670 would like it. 0:25:59.060 --> 0:26:00.100 Let's blow it up. 0:26:00.120 --> 0:26:01.020 Is that crazy? 0:26:03.860 --> 0:26:08.460 On July 3rd, 9,000 British soldiers begin landing on Staten Island. 0:26:08.480 --> 0:26:09.320 Unbelievable. 0:26:09.460 --> 0:26:12.610 Led by General William Howe, commander of the British Army 0:26:12.770 --> 0:26:17.010 in America. On July 4th, 1776. Now, that's a big day. 0:26:17.330 --> 0:26:17.460 Is it? 0:26:17.470 --> 0:26:18.270 You know what happened then? 0:26:18.970 --> 0:26:21.560 Oh, that was when we wrote the song that I 0:26:21.580 --> 0:26:22.140 got to stand for. 0:26:22.160 --> 0:26:27.600 That's right. In Philadelphia, the Continental Congress declared the colonies independent. 0:26:28.360 --> 0:26:32.500 And on July 6, 1776, in Richmond Town, Staten Island, 0:26:32.500 --> 0:26:36.379 500 men gather in the road. Richmond Town is right 0:26:36.400 --> 0:26:38.840 in the middle of the island. There's a courthouse, two churches, 0:26:38.860 --> 0:26:41.300 a tavern, a few dozen houses, so not a big place. 0:26:41.400 --> 0:26:41.840 A divorce. 0:26:42.340 --> 0:26:43.560 Divorce. 0:26:43.960 --> 0:26:47.760 That was at-fault divorce. 0:26:49.700 --> 0:26:53.100 Governor William Tryon watches them. Tryon is the royal governor 0:26:53.120 --> 0:26:56.500 of New York, and he has been running the king's government, 0:26:56.760 --> 0:26:59.380 off the deck of a ship in the harbor for 0:26:59.400 --> 0:27:01.990 a better part of a year because the rebels hold 0:27:02.010 --> 0:27:02.350 the city. 0:27:02.670 --> 0:27:03.590 He's trying his best. 0:27:03.930 --> 0:27:05.230 Yeah, he is. 0:27:05.510 --> 0:27:08.570 And next to him there is General Howe. In front 0:27:08.590 --> 0:27:12.730 of them, the 500 Staten Island farmers are sworn into 0:27:12.770 --> 0:27:17.610 the service of the king. They are from Billups Island Militia. 0:27:17.630 --> 0:27:18.570 This feels traitorous. 0:27:19.070 --> 0:27:19.890 Very much so. 0:27:20.110 --> 0:27:22.840 Go ahead. Go ahead. No, no, go ahead. 0:27:23.340 --> 0:27:25.460 I was going to say, but there are still a 0:27:25.500 --> 0:27:26.940 lot of loyalists around. 0:27:26.960 --> 0:27:28.159 There always are. 0:27:28.340 --> 0:27:31.320 But this is just a giant group of them in 0:27:31.400 --> 0:27:34.420 one place. But there's a ton of loyalists helping the British. 0:27:34.480 --> 0:27:39.359 In New York at large, but Staten Island is remarkably so. 0:27:39.400 --> 0:27:40.020 Remarkably. 0:27:40.040 --> 0:27:42.620 Honey, I think we're Britain again. 0:27:43.220 --> 0:27:47.160 I'm not sure. They're taking some kind of oath out there. 0:27:47.200 --> 0:27:51.100 My favorite thing that Phil told me is... that the 0:27:51.180 --> 0:27:55.570 Islanders burn the Patriot leaders in effigy after word of 0:27:55.650 --> 0:27:58.170 the Declaration of Independence comes out. And also that there's 0:27:58.190 --> 0:28:00.930 like all of these letters from the British soldiers when 0:28:00.970 --> 0:28:03.610 they arrived there, where they're writing home and they're like, 0:28:03.790 --> 0:28:08.200 this Island is amazing. And they're greeting us as like 0:28:08.620 --> 0:28:12.560 saviors from the rebel mob. And it's like, they can't 0:28:12.980 --> 0:28:15.740 get over how happy they are that we're here. They're like, 0:28:15.760 --> 0:28:16.280 this is awesome. 0:28:16.660 --> 0:28:19.750 They got effigies of their government. This is a real vibe. 0:28:20.740 --> 0:28:21.700 This is awesome. 0:28:21.720 --> 0:28:22.960 They really like us. 0:28:22.980 --> 0:28:27.360 This is really going good. Babe, I'm famous here. 0:28:30.910 --> 0:28:33.970 So the 500 men are out of a total population 0:28:34.010 --> 0:28:37.630 of 2,847, and that includes children and slaves. 0:28:38.830 --> 0:28:42.810 Well, if memory serves, they're not considered people. 0:28:43.890 --> 0:28:48.650 Yeah, correct. So that's a pretty big chunk of the population. 0:28:48.670 --> 0:28:49.310 Yeah, it's a good hunk. 0:28:50.520 --> 0:28:53.800 For the colonel and his men, a job very easy 0:28:53.840 --> 0:28:58.990 at first. They watch 15 miles of shoreline facing New Jersey. 0:28:59.830 --> 0:29:00.250 Okay. 0:29:00.290 --> 0:29:01.450 You got to keep an eye on New Jersey. 0:29:01.490 --> 0:29:01.770 Sure. 0:29:02.110 --> 0:29:03.310 It's still the same. 0:29:03.970 --> 0:29:07.580 It's still the same. They arm and assemble every time 0:29:07.640 --> 0:29:10.320 an alarm goes up with the colonel at the front. 0:29:11.180 --> 0:29:14.120 They dig dirt walls into the hills for the British 0:29:14.160 --> 0:29:15.400 to put cannons behind. 0:29:16.540 --> 0:29:17.020 Really? 0:29:17.220 --> 0:29:19.040 They got the good job. 0:29:19.300 --> 0:29:21.690 They are like, is it an island or a pirate 0:29:21.710 --> 0:29:24.150 ship now? It's taking on that vibe. 0:29:24.310 --> 0:29:25.460 Column A, column B. 0:29:25.690 --> 0:29:29.650 Yeah. Like, if you're watching that, be like, Jesus Christ, 0:29:29.670 --> 0:29:31.200 they're putting cannons in the dirt. 0:29:31.570 --> 0:29:33.300 There's the Scotland Crossbones flag. 0:29:33.600 --> 0:29:34.240 Oh, my God. 0:29:34.260 --> 0:29:34.700 Look at that. 0:29:34.760 --> 0:29:35.760 How did they get parents? 0:29:37.660 --> 0:29:40.220 They round up several hundred of their neighbors to drive 0:29:40.260 --> 0:29:42.970 wagons and haul artillery. The island's moving. 0:29:43.810 --> 0:29:46.130 There's a sail moving the goddamn island. 0:29:46.210 --> 0:29:47.750 It's getting farther from New Jersey. 0:29:47.770 --> 0:29:48.850 I think they're going to Britain. 0:29:50.690 --> 0:29:53.510 They haul artillery for the British Army and the horses 0:29:53.530 --> 0:29:57.220 and wagons go with them. They find the army. It's foraging. 0:29:57.260 --> 0:30:00.130 It's firewood. So they're doing everything. They're the suppliers of 0:30:00.150 --> 0:30:00.740 the British Army. 0:30:00.850 --> 0:30:01.240 Okay. 0:30:02.040 --> 0:30:04.700 So the colonel's mansion sits at the southern tip of 0:30:04.720 --> 0:30:06.380 the island right on the water facing. 0:30:06.400 --> 0:30:07.140 That says a lot. 0:30:07.320 --> 0:30:08.660 Facing Perth Amboy. The. 0:30:09.450 --> 0:30:12.650 The colonel's mansion. Really does sort of justify a lot 0:30:12.670 --> 0:30:13.050 of this if. 0:30:13.010 --> 0:30:13.590 You think about it. 0:30:13.590 --> 0:30:18.380 Back then all colonels had mansions. Yeah, that's cool. So 0:30:18.640 --> 0:30:21.920 they're right across this narrow channel from New Jersey. You 0:30:21.970 --> 0:30:23.290 can row across in a few minutes. 0:30:23.470 --> 0:30:23.810 Okay. 0:30:24.170 --> 0:30:27.310 And New Jersey is rebel ground. So the colonel's house 0:30:27.490 --> 0:30:31.690 is visible from New Jersey. As is the colonel when 0:30:31.730 --> 0:30:34.750 he just stands outside. Like, you can see him. 0:30:35.050 --> 0:30:36.690 It's like how Sarah Palin describes Russia. 0:30:36.710 --> 0:30:39.010 I can see Russia from my house. I can see 0:30:39.050 --> 0:30:40.170 New Jersey from my house. 0:30:40.590 --> 0:30:42.400 But to be able to see him like, what is 0:30:42.420 --> 0:30:45.600 he doing? He's in a robe. He's having some hot beverage. 0:30:45.620 --> 0:30:46.680 He's really stretching. 0:30:46.780 --> 0:30:47.520 Oh, he's waving. 0:30:47.580 --> 0:30:48.580 He's enjoying himself. 0:30:48.620 --> 0:30:50.500 Years from now, we'll call it yoga. 0:30:56.230 --> 0:30:57.710 He's counting gold again. 0:30:57.730 --> 0:30:58.110 Hey, man. 0:30:58.330 --> 0:30:58.810 Hey, man. 0:31:00.160 --> 0:31:03.750 Across the water in New Jersey is a rebel named 0:31:03.950 --> 0:31:08.210 Nathaniel Fitz Randolph. Everyone calls him Captain. I'm going to 0:31:08.230 --> 0:31:08.710 call him Fitz. 0:31:09.010 --> 0:31:10.070 Okay. 0:31:10.230 --> 0:31:12.790 He's about 30 years old. He spends the war rowing 0:31:13.010 --> 0:31:16.810 over to Staten Island in the dark. And he does 0:31:16.850 --> 0:31:20.070 it often enough that papers on both sides are writing 0:31:20.130 --> 0:31:22.540 about how he's famous to the rebels and infamous to 0:31:22.580 --> 0:31:25.420 the loyalists. Everyone knows who this guy is. 0:31:25.420 --> 0:31:26.740 We have like a rowing Batman? 0:31:26.920 --> 0:31:27.620 Yes, a rowing Batman. 0:31:27.640 --> 0:31:29.040 It was a slow news. 0:31:30.440 --> 0:31:30.920 Period. 0:31:31.060 --> 0:31:35.430 Nothing big was happening in world historic events. 0:31:35.490 --> 0:31:36.630 Who is Roman? 0:31:39.030 --> 0:31:41.510 But even the people who hated him conceded that he 0:31:41.610 --> 0:31:44.570 was decent to the men he captured and did not 0:31:44.610 --> 0:31:45.930 let his people rob houses. 0:31:46.010 --> 0:31:47.350 Sorry, who is he capturing? 0:31:47.370 --> 0:31:51.750 Yeah, I missed that. So he is... Rebel American going 0:31:51.850 --> 0:31:54.410 over and grabbing whatever, a soldier or whatever, or an 0:31:54.470 --> 0:31:55.950 important person from Staten Island. 0:31:56.090 --> 0:32:00.070 Okay, so he's anti-Staten Island, obviously. 0:32:00.270 --> 0:32:02.590 He's anti-British, and therefore anti-Staten Island. 0:32:02.610 --> 0:32:03.950 Yes, because Staten Island's part of Britain. 0:32:04.070 --> 0:32:06.260 He rows over and he does a comedy set. 0:32:06.720 --> 0:32:09.120 He comes back. They boo him. 0:32:09.340 --> 0:32:10.500 That did not go well. 0:32:11.900 --> 0:32:16.320 So he's rowing over there, and he's grabbing someone of note. 0:32:16.930 --> 0:32:18.830 And then he's bringing them back to the mainland and 0:32:18.870 --> 0:32:20.050 people are like, oh, it's good. 0:32:20.070 --> 0:32:20.590 That's right. 0:32:20.610 --> 0:32:22.200 And they're like, what the hell are you doing? He's like, 0:32:22.390 --> 0:32:26.380 it's a vibe. It's popping. 0:32:27.540 --> 0:32:30.860 This is how bad comedy is in Staten Island. David 0:32:30.880 --> 0:32:32.720 Tell went before me and he got off stage and 0:32:32.740 --> 0:32:34.840 was like, oh, God, get me out of here. 0:32:38.240 --> 0:32:41.960 I want to hear more about these Staten Island sets 0:32:41.980 --> 0:32:44.540 you guys did I didn't even realize there was a 0:32:44.540 --> 0:32:45.240 comedy circuit that. 0:32:45.120 --> 0:32:48.980 Went through there I think I did stand up on 0:32:49.500 --> 0:32:54.800 the ferry to Staten Island and. 0:32:53.560 --> 0:32:56.900 It was a death sentence. 0:32:56.310 --> 0:32:59.290 They're just slamming on the accelerator it was the first 0:32:59.310 --> 0:32:59.590 trip that. 0:32:59.550 --> 0:33:03.250 Took 10 minutes that's a lot of smoke you're really. 0:33:03.130 --> 0:33:06.610 Cooking That was, oh God, I know who books that gig. 0:33:08.050 --> 0:33:08.510 Or did. 0:33:08.970 --> 0:33:10.610 The guy who booked it for me was a guy 0:33:10.630 --> 0:33:11.660 named Pudge, I believe. 0:33:11.800 --> 0:33:12.920 Oh, okay, that's different. 0:33:13.120 --> 0:33:15.340 Yeah, and it was horrible. 0:33:15.360 --> 0:33:19.060 I bombed and then could hear people talking about how 0:33:19.140 --> 0:33:23.150 I bombed. I literally at one point said to someone, 0:33:23.350 --> 0:33:24.570 I go, I can hear you. 0:33:24.590 --> 0:33:28.050 She was like, oh, sorry. I was like, yeah, it's okay, 0:33:28.070 --> 0:33:29.810 but keep your voice down. 0:33:29.830 --> 0:33:34.440 Yeah, so Grandpa was in New Dorp. Grandpa's Comedy Club. 0:33:34.660 --> 0:33:37.380 And Grandpa was Al Lewis from the Munsters. That's who 0:33:37.440 --> 0:33:39.280 owned it. That's why it was called Grandpa's. 0:33:39.880 --> 0:33:40.420 Dave's 80. 0:33:40.420 --> 0:33:45.380 Dave fought for the British. I did. 0:33:45.400 --> 0:33:47.120 A little bit. I still am. 0:33:47.140 --> 0:33:49.640 This is going to happen. Dave took an oath after 0:33:49.680 --> 0:33:50.140 his set. 0:33:51.600 --> 0:33:55.140 Should we reconsider? 250 years, it's been long enough. 0:33:55.360 --> 0:33:58.020 It's not a bad idea. The rogue guy grabs him. 0:33:58.200 --> 0:33:59.120 Oh, come on. 0:33:59.140 --> 0:34:01.540 You're going back to the mainland. 0:34:02.660 --> 0:34:08.600 So the colonel puts a 100-pound bounty on Fitz's head. Okay. 0:34:09.380 --> 0:34:12.040 So then Fitz, in response, put a 100-pound bounty on 0:34:12.060 --> 0:34:12.750 the colonel's head. 0:34:12.770 --> 0:34:13.620 He's not allowed to do that. 0:34:13.989 --> 0:34:17.009 And he one-ups it and said he was going to 0:34:17.029 --> 0:34:18.310 have to go get the colonel himself. 0:34:18.850 --> 0:34:19.150 Wow. 0:34:19.810 --> 0:34:21.030 So I guess he gets his own bounty. 0:34:21.250 --> 0:34:21.489 Yeah. 0:34:21.509 --> 0:34:23.450 Do you pay yourself for taxes? 0:34:23.850 --> 0:34:27.769 Self-dealing. That doesn't happen until 250 years later in American history. 0:34:27.870 --> 0:34:29.849 You've got to be president to do that kind of thing. 0:34:31.040 --> 0:34:31.820 Insider rowing. 0:34:33.419 --> 0:34:36.140 Uh, uh, he then, uh, gets a tip that the 0:34:36.180 --> 0:34:38.420 Colonel will be attending a ball on Staten Island. 0:34:39.060 --> 0:34:39.420 Several. 0:34:39.460 --> 0:34:41.979 Who's the tip from? Uh, this guy keeps looking over 0:34:42.000 --> 0:34:43.180 there and he can see everything. 0:34:45.020 --> 0:34:47.619 With bald eyes. He could just, how do I know? 0:34:47.640 --> 0:34:49.790 Uh, cause there's actually a ball going on right now 0:34:49.810 --> 0:34:50.690 and the Colonel's at it. 0:34:52.350 --> 0:34:54.969 Uh, so it's several miles inland from his estate. So, 0:34:55.509 --> 0:34:59.649 so Fitz heads to Staten Island. And he goes to 0:34:59.669 --> 0:35:01.509 the house where the ball is happening. 0:35:01.529 --> 0:35:04.250 This guy's wife, by the way, definitely was like, he's cheating. 0:35:04.609 --> 0:35:06.399 He's 100%. Oh, you're going to Staten Island again? You 0:35:06.419 --> 0:35:07.799 can just tell me if it. Okay. 0:35:07.980 --> 0:35:08.660 What's her name? 0:35:08.759 --> 0:35:10.640 I'm going to Staten Island again to try to get 0:35:10.680 --> 0:35:11.039 the key. 0:35:11.719 --> 0:35:16.580 Uh-huh. And he, so he goes to the ball. He 0:35:16.660 --> 0:35:19.939 peeks inside so he can get a look at the 0:35:19.980 --> 0:35:23.660 colonel and see what he's wearing, worried that he might 0:35:23.700 --> 0:35:25.819 grab the wrong guy in the dark. So he wants 0:35:25.839 --> 0:35:26.320 to see. 0:35:26.339 --> 0:35:27.819 Poorly wet ball. 0:35:29.910 --> 0:35:34.469 What a setup. I'm going to have to go by feels. 0:35:34.629 --> 0:35:37.170 Should we immediately option this to be a movie. 0:35:37.210 --> 0:35:38.589 A major motion picture? 0:35:39.149 --> 0:35:44.610 This is like a Marvel plot, Roman. 0:35:46.790 --> 0:35:51.799 So Fitz ran up. He's a wanted rebel. He has 0:35:51.839 --> 0:35:56.480 a price on his head, 100 bucks or pounds. And 0:35:56.500 --> 0:35:59.160 he goes into a ball of a room full of 0:35:59.259 --> 0:36:02.400 loyalists on an island held by the British Army. 0:36:02.500 --> 0:36:03.399 Did he dress up? 0:36:04.299 --> 0:36:07.170 I don't know how he pulled it off, but some 0:36:07.210 --> 0:36:10.430 people did recognize him, acquaintances, but they didn't say anything. 0:36:12.350 --> 0:36:15.049 He must have been playing the part a little bit. 0:36:15.129 --> 0:36:17.330 I don't imagine he's just winking at a lot of people. 0:36:17.410 --> 0:36:20.310 How good are the British, huh? Look at all these oysters. 0:36:20.549 --> 0:36:24.619 This is awesome. This is living. This is great, huh? 0:36:24.640 --> 0:36:29.880 I hope the mainland rower never comes this way. Colonel, 0:36:29.919 --> 0:36:30.580 nice outfit. 0:36:31.040 --> 0:36:33.100 Wait, how do we know that some people recognize him? 0:36:33.160 --> 0:36:35.540 It's like after the fact. Oh, yeah, I saw that guy. 0:36:35.549 --> 0:36:37.509 I knew who that was. You don't get invited back. 0:36:38.000 --> 0:36:39.670 It's got to be in the letters. Yeah. I don't 0:36:39.690 --> 0:36:40.499 know how else you'd know. 0:36:40.520 --> 0:36:43.249 That's all we got. That is a weird thing to 0:36:43.290 --> 0:36:46.209 put in your letter, though. Some people knew him. Others didn't. 0:36:47.049 --> 0:36:51.170 Definitely people wrote about it years later, so maybe that's why. 0:36:51.430 --> 0:36:54.270 The next morning, the colonel is riding home from the ball. 0:36:54.450 --> 0:36:54.729 He's tired. 0:36:54.770 --> 0:36:55.089 He's half asleep. 0:36:55.109 --> 0:36:56.350 So he did an all-nighter at the ball. 0:36:56.370 --> 0:36:57.109 He's probably hungover. 0:36:57.149 --> 0:36:58.369 He did an all-nighter at the ball? 0:36:58.410 --> 0:36:59.350 Yeah. 0:36:59.370 --> 0:36:59.569 Yeah. 0:36:59.969 --> 0:37:03.519 And when Fitz steps into the road, right in front 0:37:03.560 --> 0:37:07.189 of him and seizes him. And the details have been 0:37:07.210 --> 0:37:10.469 lost to history. But for some reason, by July 27th, 0:37:10.569 --> 0:37:13.610 he's back on Staten Island. The colonel? 0:37:13.730 --> 0:37:13.950 Yeah. 0:37:14.230 --> 0:37:17.939 What? They caught him. He caught him, which we tried 0:37:17.960 --> 0:37:20.499 to do for a while. And then all of a sudden, 0:37:20.520 --> 0:37:21.859 he's free. And we don't know why. 0:37:21.940 --> 0:37:23.980 What is the time difference between when he caught. 0:37:23.799 --> 0:37:25.300 Him to when he was back on the island on 0:37:25.319 --> 0:37:26.350 the 27th? 0:37:26.370 --> 0:37:31.450 The colonel never wrote an extremely self-aggrandizing book about all this. 0:37:31.950 --> 0:37:33.120 He just– He tweeted a bit. 0:37:33.129 --> 0:37:35.249 He assumed history would. 0:37:35.310 --> 0:37:35.870 No, he didn't. 0:37:35.930 --> 0:37:38.230 He assumed that history books would be like. 0:37:37.930 --> 0:37:39.809 And he never anticipated this. 0:37:40.149 --> 0:37:41.710 No, he never was like, this won't work? 0:37:43.649 --> 0:37:47.410 He was probably exchanged because he was kidnapped for the 0:37:47.489 --> 0:37:50.269 sole purpose of trading in a prisoner exchange. 0:37:50.569 --> 0:37:50.899 Okay. 0:37:50.919 --> 0:37:51.800 So he was probably traded. 0:37:51.819 --> 0:37:52.640 Okay. 0:37:53.279 --> 0:37:55.040 But this is not close to– I would hold on 0:37:55.080 --> 0:37:55.560 to that one. 0:37:56.000 --> 0:37:56.640 Yeah. Yeah. 0:37:57.020 --> 0:37:58.839 This is not close to over. In February of 1779, 0:37:58.839 --> 0:38:04.009 a raiding party from Staten Island comes for Fitz in Jersey. 0:38:04.250 --> 0:38:04.710 Okay. 0:38:05.489 --> 0:38:07.890 At 3 o'clock in the morning, a party of loyalist 0:38:07.989 --> 0:38:12.670 troops cross from the island. They land. They walk into town. 0:38:12.790 --> 0:38:15.919 Nobody sees them because it's 3 a.m. Nobody's up. And 0:38:15.940 --> 0:38:18.200 they go straight to the house where Fitz lives. 0:38:18.960 --> 0:38:21.299 This is going to be very validating for the cheating thing, though, 0:38:21.339 --> 0:38:22.900 for him. He'll be like, see? 0:38:23.239 --> 0:38:26.039 I've been robbed. They're coming to get me. 0:38:28.790 --> 0:38:32.310 Unbeknownst to the raiding party, a rebel scout from a 0:38:32.330 --> 0:38:35.950 nearby post has stopped to spend the night at the house. Okay. 0:38:36.410 --> 0:38:41.040 So there are 12 rebel soldiers inside with fits. 0:38:41.219 --> 0:38:41.480 Tough. 0:38:42.020 --> 0:38:45.959 That is brutal. It's not what it looks like. No, no. Yeah, 0:38:45.980 --> 0:38:48.640 he's like Jason boarding the room. He's like, there's only candles. 0:38:50.100 --> 0:38:53.009 So the sentry does not see the loyalists until they 0:38:53.049 --> 0:38:55.170 have nearly surrounded the building. 0:38:55.529 --> 0:38:55.890 Okay. 0:38:56.520 --> 0:38:59.859 And then he fires a musket once and runs away. 0:39:00.200 --> 0:39:01.080 Wait, who does Fitz? 0:39:01.219 --> 0:39:01.740 No, the sentry. 0:39:01.819 --> 0:39:04.060 Oh, the guard. Oh, that guy. I love that guy. 0:39:04.620 --> 0:39:06.060 That's me. That's what I'm doing. I'm shooting it once 0:39:06.120 --> 0:39:06.719 and I'm taking off. 0:39:06.819 --> 0:39:08.899 Well, to be fair, I mean, he's like, it's going 0:39:08.919 --> 0:39:10.020 to take 20 to reload. 0:39:10.040 --> 0:39:11.139 Yeah, absolutely. 0:39:11.379 --> 0:39:13.340 Words out. I'm going to get a coffee. 0:39:14.160 --> 0:39:17.339 So when the gun goes off, the Loyalists storm the 0:39:17.399 --> 0:39:19.360 house and they just take Fitz and the other 12 0:39:19.359 --> 0:39:22.680 guys easily with that incident. They're just like, ah. They're 0:39:22.700 --> 0:39:24.479 probably all laying on the floor asleep. 0:39:24.560 --> 0:39:25.180 Yeah, yeah. 0:39:26.509 --> 0:39:28.439 On the way out, they steal the buckles of the 0:39:28.520 --> 0:39:30.100 shoes of the women in the house. 0:39:30.259 --> 0:39:31.120 Smart. 0:39:31.540 --> 0:39:32.299 You got to get your stuff. 0:39:32.540 --> 0:39:34.279 That's just economics. 0:39:36.069 --> 0:39:39.370 I'm like, how is everyone arranged? There's like one room 0:39:39.390 --> 0:39:41.519 with like... 12 guys on the floor and then there's 0:39:41.540 --> 0:39:43.099 like bedrooms with the women of the house. 0:39:43.359 --> 0:39:45.979 When I picture these times, I always just imagine the 0:39:46.020 --> 0:39:46.739 Three Stooges. 0:39:48.279 --> 0:39:49.719 Sleeping caps. One of them's like. 0:39:50.660 --> 0:39:53.589 Oh, there's definitely a couple. If there's a bed, there's 0:39:53.629 --> 0:39:54.750 definitely three or four soldiers. 0:39:54.770 --> 0:39:55.390 Oh, yeah. 0:39:55.410 --> 0:39:55.589 Yeah. 0:39:55.609 --> 0:39:56.249 They do the 69 sleep. 0:39:56.270 --> 0:39:56.609 When up until. 0:39:59.390 --> 0:40:02.520 I don't know when the fire departments in the late 1800s, 0:40:02.529 --> 0:40:04.960 it was just two, always two dudes in a bed. 0:40:04.980 --> 0:40:06.839 That's just the way it was. 0:40:06.859 --> 0:40:07.579 Which is what I say. 0:40:07.600 --> 0:40:10.100 We should do it in fast motion. Yeah. Yeah. 0:40:10.640 --> 0:40:10.819 Yeah. 0:40:10.859 --> 0:40:11.180 Right. 0:40:11.219 --> 0:40:11.640 Yeah. Yeah. 0:40:12.480 --> 0:40:17.140 Um, so, uh, the, he's put in a provost prison 0:40:17.180 --> 0:40:20.080 in New York and then the British put him in irons. 0:40:20.640 --> 0:40:21.019 Oh dear. 0:40:21.799 --> 0:40:25.919 Now the rebels keep coming for the Colonel. And in March, uh, 0:40:26.430 --> 0:40:28.650 the New York Gazette reports that two or three different 0:40:28.690 --> 0:40:32.479 parties have lately been at his house, quote, in order 0:40:32.540 --> 0:40:36.200 to captivate him once more with a view to get 0:40:36.279 --> 0:40:39.319 him for an exchange. So they're trying to get him 0:40:39.399 --> 0:40:41.340 to swap for Fitz. 0:40:41.540 --> 0:40:44.669 They just think he's valuable. They're not like, this guy 0:40:44.930 --> 0:40:47.609 is quarterbacking the whole thing. They don't think he's like 0:40:47.669 --> 0:40:50.109 the linchpin of the British effort. They just think they'll 0:40:50.129 --> 0:40:51.129 do anything to get him back. 0:40:51.549 --> 0:40:51.850 Yeah. 0:40:52.069 --> 0:40:53.910 Why don't they take him? Why don't they. 0:40:54.089 --> 0:40:54.510 The colonel? 0:40:54.569 --> 0:40:54.769 Yeah. 0:40:55.279 --> 0:40:58.160 They can't. They just haven't been able to steal him. 0:40:58.219 --> 0:40:59.840 It's hard to grab a guy. 0:40:59.859 --> 0:41:01.959 Especially if you grabbed him once. 0:41:02.399 --> 0:41:06.480 Yeah, I mean, it's hard to grab him. He's right 0:41:06.500 --> 0:41:09.999 there in front of his house! I could go get him. 0:41:10.799 --> 0:41:13.290 How can we not get this guy? He's doing yoga 0:41:13.770 --> 0:41:15.489 every morning at 9am! 0:41:15.589 --> 0:41:19.270 We can see him! 0:41:19.969 --> 0:41:24.680 So, they do a couple of raids, but they Both fail, 0:41:24.799 --> 0:41:29.999 but then a third on June 23rd, 1779 does not. 0:41:30.120 --> 0:41:32.919 As previously mentioned, the colonel's house can be seen across 0:41:32.960 --> 0:41:36.230 the water, so the rebels station men in the steeple 0:41:36.339 --> 0:41:40.210 of the town church and give them orders to watch 0:41:40.250 --> 0:41:41.490 for the colonel to come home. 0:41:41.629 --> 0:41:42.830 Is this a Trojan church? 0:41:42.850 --> 0:41:46.070 They're literally like, you guys, I got a great plan. 0:41:46.250 --> 0:41:46.709 Hear me out. 0:41:46.750 --> 0:41:48.110 How did this take years? 0:41:48.230 --> 0:41:49.590 We watch his house. 0:41:49.989 --> 0:41:50.109 Huh? 0:41:50.169 --> 0:41:50.509 Huh? 0:41:51.219 --> 0:41:55.359 So someone on the mainland invented hiding. And this is 0:41:55.399 --> 0:41:59.219 going to be huge. This is a huge technology, a 0:41:59.239 --> 0:42:03.760 huge breakthrough. What this is is not revealing where you. 0:42:03.399 --> 0:42:04.019 Are right away. 0:42:04.040 --> 0:42:07.880 It works better in summer when there are leaves. You 0:42:07.899 --> 0:42:11.390 guys remember surprise parties? It's that but for kidnapping, okay? 0:42:11.410 --> 0:42:13.290 This is going to change all war. 0:42:13.350 --> 0:42:15.910 This is big. Peter Thiel has the copyright. 0:42:17.690 --> 0:42:20.790 Uh, so he comes home, the rebels head across. So 0:42:20.830 --> 0:42:23.709 they wait for him. It's not like they're waiting in 0:42:23.730 --> 0:42:29.279 Staten Island hiding there. They're still across in Jersey, just 0:42:29.379 --> 0:42:31.709 watching the house. That's the rebels. 0:42:32.000 --> 0:42:34.169 How did nobody, how was nobody like, we could do 0:42:34.230 --> 0:42:34.890 this over there. 0:42:35.489 --> 0:42:38.269 Also, like, to be visible from New Jersey, you have 0:42:38.290 --> 0:42:41.430 to be at, like, the most extreme, like, outer edge 0:42:41.469 --> 0:42:43.920 of Staten Island. Like, he must have been the farthest 0:42:44.060 --> 0:42:45.769 south point of New York. 0:42:46.100 --> 0:42:47.120 I believe it is. 0:42:47.140 --> 0:42:50.400 I believe it's right there. He is taunting at this point. 0:42:50.440 --> 0:42:53.640 You really, I mean, obviously, if there's only, like, a 0:42:53.680 --> 0:42:56.400 little bit you can see, and you're like, I choose 0:42:56.440 --> 0:42:57.060 to live there. 0:42:57.779 --> 0:42:59.620 You would think he would just be going out, dropping 0:42:59.640 --> 0:43:00.980 his pants and slapping. 0:43:00.620 --> 0:43:02.630 His butt cheeks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's spreading it. 0:43:02.680 --> 0:43:04.259 He's doing the spread thing again. There he goes. 0:43:04.279 --> 0:43:04.819 He's spreading it. 0:43:05.569 --> 0:43:08.710 So they head across in a boat in silence, muffling 0:43:08.750 --> 0:43:10.629 the sound of the oars, as you do. 0:43:10.910 --> 0:43:12.190 Sure. 0:43:12.210 --> 0:43:15.910 They land. It's probably quite ineffective, but you maybe just 0:43:15.969 --> 0:43:17.069 have to lay it flat. 0:43:17.350 --> 0:43:17.589 Yeah. 0:43:18.089 --> 0:43:20.230 It's really taken a long time. 0:43:19.989 --> 0:43:23.370 To get there. They land. They walk up to the house. 0:43:23.489 --> 0:43:24.930 We're back on the mainland. 0:43:25.129 --> 0:43:27.009 In a single file, they walk up to the house. 0:43:27.969 --> 0:43:31.310 They give the countersign and go inside without anybody raising 0:43:31.330 --> 0:43:33.969 the alarm, and the colonel's in bed. 0:43:33.989 --> 0:43:34.430 Yeah. 0:43:34.730 --> 0:43:35.469 He's sleeping. 0:43:35.669 --> 0:43:35.849 Sure. 0:43:36.190 --> 0:43:39.270 So they just grab him. And when they're taking him 0:43:39.310 --> 0:43:42.689 out of the home, he asks for time to grab 0:43:42.710 --> 0:43:43.250 his hat. 0:43:45.609 --> 0:43:46.430 Well, I mean, look. 0:43:46.549 --> 0:43:48.890 It was really different back then. 0:43:49.410 --> 0:43:52.270 There are rules of engagement, and there are war crimes, 0:43:52.310 --> 0:43:54.069 and obviously you've got to let the guy get his hat. 0:43:54.359 --> 0:43:57.819 We do. There's a lot of hat stuff on the island. 0:43:57.839 --> 0:43:58.180 Hat fetching. 0:43:58.719 --> 0:43:59.040 Yeah. 0:43:59.080 --> 0:44:01.439 Well, we've gone through a lot of the hat respect thing. 0:44:02.589 --> 0:44:06.369 Like if someone is in disarray, the papers are always like, 0:44:07.290 --> 0:44:09.710 he was without a hat. Like that's to describe. 0:44:09.350 --> 0:44:09.930 How messed up things were. 0:44:09.950 --> 0:44:11.569 No, if you think taking your hat off for the 0:44:11.609 --> 0:44:13.549 national anthem is a pain in the ass, you have 0:44:13.690 --> 0:44:14.489 no idea how. 0:44:14.790 --> 0:44:18.130 Lucky you are. 0:44:18.629 --> 0:44:20.930 They don't allow him to grab his hat. What? 0:44:20.950 --> 0:44:22.590 The actual fuck? 0:44:22.669 --> 0:44:24.150 Oh man, things have changed. 0:44:24.710 --> 0:44:26.000 Well, that's not good. 0:44:26.319 --> 0:44:29.520 Well, that is just, I mean, that is not gentlemanly. 0:44:29.540 --> 0:44:29.700 Death. 0:44:29.719 --> 0:44:29.879 Death. 0:44:31.140 --> 0:44:33.580 His own guard is posted a short distance away but 0:44:33.660 --> 0:44:39.019 never noticed a thing. They got comfy. One rebel goes 0:44:39.040 --> 0:44:42.460 into the stable and takes the colonel's horse, beautiful animal, 0:44:42.500 --> 0:44:44.219 and takes it down to the water. But the horse, 0:44:44.239 --> 0:44:46.649 because he's a jerk, will not get in the boat. 0:44:47.629 --> 0:44:48.750 So the man shoots the horse. 0:44:49.299 --> 0:44:49.519 Jesus. 0:44:49.569 --> 0:44:51.489 I don't know why. I don't think we need that detail. 0:44:51.549 --> 0:44:53.010 What else are you going to do with the horse? 0:44:53.609 --> 0:44:54.750 I mean, look. 0:44:54.830 --> 0:44:57.069 If it's not going to get in the boat, what 0:44:57.109 --> 0:44:57.950 other options are there? 0:44:58.370 --> 0:45:00.369 So I just killed it. What? 0:45:00.770 --> 0:45:01.069 Yeah, yeah. 0:45:01.250 --> 0:45:03.769 Just let the thing go. It's a nice horse. Yeah, 0:45:03.989 --> 0:45:04.370 I should have. 0:45:04.549 --> 0:45:06.950 I should have. What are you doing? It's all happening 0:45:06.989 --> 0:45:07.550 so fast. 0:45:07.690 --> 0:45:09.149 Yeah, but there's so many moving pieces. 0:45:09.330 --> 0:45:11.719 It's not happening fast. This is the slowest thing ever. 0:45:11.779 --> 0:45:14.180 I know. Hiding had kind of turned my mind around. 0:45:14.899 --> 0:45:17.700 And I did stomach, so it's a slow one. Why 0:45:17.759 --> 0:45:20.839 would you shoot him in the stomach? We walked through 0:45:20.879 --> 0:45:22.739 a lot of versions of this. We never talked about 0:45:22.779 --> 0:45:23.180 that horse. 0:45:23.200 --> 0:45:24.479 Well, you're not supposed to take a horse. 0:45:24.500 --> 0:45:26.210 What is with a horse not getting on a boat? 0:45:26.270 --> 0:45:27.129 Doesn't it understand? 0:45:27.190 --> 0:45:29.230 Who thinks a horse will get on a rowboat? 0:45:29.250 --> 0:45:29.950 I completely agree. 0:45:30.739 --> 0:45:34.019 Completely agree. Can you do stealth mode rowing when you 0:45:34.060 --> 0:45:38.379 have a horse passenger? 0:45:38.739 --> 0:45:39.259 Trying to get a horse. 0:45:39.279 --> 0:45:41.940 The horses are quiet, but the neighing is very loud. 0:45:41.960 --> 0:45:46.739 Trying to get a horse on a rowboat. It's making 0:45:46.779 --> 0:45:47.880 it harder to row. 0:45:48.759 --> 0:45:53.600 Horse was definitely behaving rationally. A, you don't need me. B, 0:45:53.899 --> 0:45:54.820 absolutely not. 0:45:55.219 --> 0:45:55.940 I'm not going to go. 0:45:56.580 --> 0:45:56.779 Yeah. 0:45:57.040 --> 0:45:57.439 No. No. 0:45:58.589 --> 0:46:01.229 So the gunshot alerts the British that something's going on, 0:46:01.250 --> 0:46:01.919 but by the time they. 0:46:01.980 --> 0:46:04.799 The idea that you could have just left the horse- Yeah. 0:46:04.879 --> 0:46:09.060 Not only for ethical reasons, but to seek off better. 0:46:09.379 --> 0:46:09.640 Yeah. 0:46:09.960 --> 0:46:14.560 Well, I shot the horse. The British know. I buckled. 0:46:15.000 --> 0:46:16.600 He looked mean. He looked real mean. 0:46:16.640 --> 0:46:18.519 You're going to be weird. What am I going to do? 0:46:18.540 --> 0:46:20.579 I buckled like a lady's shoe out there. I shot 0:46:20.620 --> 0:46:21.340 the horse twice. 0:46:24.080 --> 0:46:26.640 But it's too late because Jersey's so close that by 0:46:26.680 --> 0:46:29.229 the time the British- Organize. 0:46:28.950 --> 0:46:30.810 And get down there Alright we're ready They're back on the. 0:46:30.770 --> 0:46:33.730 Mainland Yeah they're in Jersey already So Colonel's now a 0:46:33.730 --> 0:46:36.549 prisoner But it's not so bad Basically he promises the 0:46:36.589 --> 0:46:39.669 Continental Army He will not escape And will not take 0:46:39.730 --> 0:46:43.220 up arms In exchange They let him do his thing 0:46:43.359 --> 0:46:46.120 in New Jersey So he's basically just cruising around in 0:46:46.160 --> 0:46:49.680 Jersey now And he promises not to do anything bad 0:46:49.940 --> 0:46:52.200 That's the prisoner situation. 0:46:51.799 --> 0:46:56.810 I don't understand That's how it works with officers It's 0:46:56.830 --> 0:46:58.049 a gentlemanly agreement. 0:46:58.549 --> 0:47:00.069 But then why not let him take his hat? 0:47:00.850 --> 0:47:01.789 Exactly where I was going. 0:47:01.830 --> 0:47:02.450 Well, here we go. 0:47:02.469 --> 0:47:03.269 Exactly where I was going. 0:47:03.290 --> 0:47:06.029 He's going to hold a grudge, isn't he? As you should. 0:47:06.069 --> 0:47:06.930 Just walking around all that time. 0:47:07.049 --> 0:47:08.689 I mean, he can see it from where he's being. 0:47:08.710 --> 0:47:10.609 He can see it from where he's... It's right there. 0:47:10.629 --> 0:47:11.850 Right there on the hat rack. 0:47:12.129 --> 0:47:14.149 It's right there. I can grab it. 0:47:14.290 --> 0:47:15.769 Right next to the yoga mat. 0:47:15.969 --> 0:47:19.379 Yeah. 0:47:19.669 --> 0:47:22.129 So as long as he keeps his word, he stays 0:47:22.190 --> 0:47:24.610 out of a cell, right? So for four months, that is... 0:47:25.879 --> 0:47:31.459 colonel christopher billups sentence okay exile in new jersey yeah 0:47:31.600 --> 0:47:33.259 yeah you see yeah. 0:47:32.960 --> 0:47:39.430 May i go into jail now uh but then in 0:47:39.529 --> 0:47:44.569 october new york state blows that agreement up the legislature 0:47:44.629 --> 0:47:48.489 convicts him of loyalty to the king yeah We knew this. 0:47:48.969 --> 0:47:49.270 Yeah. 0:47:49.310 --> 0:47:51.089 We all knew this. 0:47:51.109 --> 0:47:53.450 Yeah. We knew. What are we doing? We knew that. 0:47:53.469 --> 0:47:54.870 The four months is the issue. 0:47:54.890 --> 0:47:58.670 He's in the legislature being like, we should all. Yeah. 0:48:00.410 --> 0:48:03.150 And you are sentenced to no hat. Well, guys. 0:48:04.250 --> 0:48:04.630 Guys. 0:48:04.830 --> 0:48:08.830 So the colonel is banished and everything he owns is 0:48:08.890 --> 0:48:09.850 taken by the state. 0:48:09.870 --> 0:48:11.050 You're going to Staten Island. 0:48:11.649 --> 0:48:16.109 So they take his 1078 acres. The stone house his 0:48:16.149 --> 0:48:18.710 grandfather built, the dead horse they take, they take everything. 0:48:19.049 --> 0:48:19.690 The hat. 0:48:20.330 --> 0:48:20.850 Jesus. 0:48:21.390 --> 0:48:23.049 In New York, the British are holding. 0:48:23.149 --> 0:48:26.090 Put it on in front of him. No! 0:48:26.870 --> 0:48:28.969 In New York, the British are holding two American prisoners 0:48:29.049 --> 0:48:33.880 in irons. One is Nathaniel Fitz Randolph. So New Jersey 0:48:33.919 --> 0:48:37.959 decides to answer that by doing the same thing to 0:48:38.000 --> 0:48:44.300 a loyalist, and that's Colonel Billup. Okay. 0:48:44.379 --> 0:48:44.539 So. 0:48:45.350 --> 0:48:47.689 The governor of New Jersey wrote a letter saying the 0:48:47.710 --> 0:48:51.569 state had no personal resentment against the colonel. Quote, it 0:48:51.629 --> 0:48:54.580 is his particular misfortune to be in our position at 0:48:54.640 --> 0:48:56.219 this melancholy juncture. 0:48:57.279 --> 0:48:59.359 Hate to do it. 0:48:59.399 --> 0:49:00.800 We got to put this guy in prison. 0:49:00.819 --> 0:49:04.039 The amount of things that were emotionally written back then 0:49:04.180 --> 0:49:05.400 and the amount of things that weren't. 0:49:05.500 --> 0:49:09.339 And this is one where he's like, it's melancholy. We're down. 0:49:09.649 --> 0:49:11.049 I'm really sad I got to put this guy in 0:49:11.089 --> 0:49:11.389 a prison. 0:49:11.410 --> 0:49:13.819 It's tough. And what he was just like popping around 0:49:13.859 --> 0:49:15.960 New Jersey. And then they were like, things have changed. 0:49:16.440 --> 0:49:17.019 That's right. 0:49:18.219 --> 0:49:21.359 Such that now you must be in manacles. 0:49:21.399 --> 0:49:26.090 That was tough, but it is where he wrote Borden 0:49:26.129 --> 0:49:26.450 to run. 0:49:28.649 --> 0:49:31.480 So on November 6th, the colonel is actually sent to prison. 0:49:32.600 --> 0:49:35.719 There are two letters that are sent with him. The 0:49:35.739 --> 0:49:38.649 first is for the jailer. Quote, you are hereby commanded 0:49:38.669 --> 0:49:41.950 to receive into your custody the body of Colonel Christopher Billup, 0:49:42.290 --> 0:49:45.289 prisoner of war, herewith delivered to you and having put 0:49:45.649 --> 0:49:48.650 irons on his hands and feet. you are to chain 0:49:48.690 --> 0:49:52.229 him down to the floor in a close room in 0:49:52.350 --> 0:49:55.270 the said jail, and there so detain him, giving him 0:49:55.350 --> 0:49:57.390 bread and water only for food. 0:49:57.710 --> 0:49:59.230 Comma with melancholy. 0:50:00.799 --> 0:50:03.299 That feels very standard as far as. 0:50:03.779 --> 0:50:04.160 Doesn't it? 0:50:04.299 --> 0:50:05.539 Yeah. 0:50:05.580 --> 0:50:07.989 They're like, okay, yeah, so he's a prisoner. Got it. 0:50:08.200 --> 0:50:09.939 It's like the hiding thing. They're like, we got to 0:50:09.980 --> 0:50:11.060 really spell this one out. 0:50:12.540 --> 0:50:14.950 Don't get him wet. Don't feed him after midnight. 0:50:14.969 --> 0:50:16.809 Comma New Jersey, comma Earth. 0:50:17.109 --> 0:50:17.410 Yeah. 0:50:21.620 --> 0:50:23.560 The second letter is for the colonel. 0:50:24.359 --> 0:50:28.069 By the way, bread and water, you give me that 0:50:28.089 --> 0:50:29.250 for three days, I'm not upset. 0:50:29.870 --> 0:50:30.190 Really? 0:50:30.270 --> 0:50:31.009 That sounds pretty good. 0:50:31.069 --> 0:50:32.690 I think it was longer than three days. Yeah. 0:50:33.009 --> 0:50:34.790 No, eventually I'd be like, can I get some butter? 0:50:34.930 --> 0:50:37.519 But for the first few days, I'm like, I'm carving 0:50:37.560 --> 0:50:38.120 and loving it. 0:50:39.520 --> 0:50:43.899 So the other letters to the colonel, the official who 0:50:43.960 --> 0:50:46.680 signed the first one says he is sorry. He writes, quote, 0:50:47.230 --> 0:50:50.029 to be under the disagreeable necessity of treating him this way. 0:50:50.149 --> 0:50:53.330 But retaliation is directed, and the colonel can end it 0:50:53.509 --> 0:50:55.709 any time he likes by writing to New York and 0:50:55.750 --> 0:51:00.499 arranging better treatment for the two American prisoners. So they're 0:51:00.600 --> 0:51:02.999 saying they just want Fitz and the other guy out 0:51:03.020 --> 0:51:03.439 of irons. 0:51:03.500 --> 0:51:06.120 Right. And he can do that. 0:51:06.140 --> 0:51:08.480 Yeah, he's like, yeah, how about you get involved? 0:51:08.560 --> 0:51:12.700 Wow. We can unmanacle the right hand or the left 0:51:12.719 --> 0:51:13.660 if you're a lefty. 0:51:14.460 --> 0:51:19.060 That is such a strange... situation. 0:51:18.060 --> 0:51:21.320 To be in so he is chained to a jail 0:51:21.359 --> 0:51:25.359 floor eating bread and water in order to improve the 0:51:25.419 --> 0:51:27.979 living conditions of the guy who kidnapped him in the 0:51:28.000 --> 0:51:32.319 first place so weeks go by and a message comes 0:51:32.359 --> 0:51:36.080 to the colonel from George Washington George tells him to 0:51:36.140 --> 0:51:38.559 resign his command of the militia and he can go 0:51:38.600 --> 0:51:41.060 home nobody will touch you or your property during the 0:51:41.100 --> 0:51:42.910 war or after it so that's a pretty good. 0:51:42.839 --> 0:51:46.499 Deal that is the perfect deal Take it. Yeah. 0:51:46.700 --> 0:51:52.819 He says no. He likes being in charge of the militia. 0:51:52.919 --> 0:51:56.060 Men have never been sane. 0:51:56.440 --> 0:51:57.580 He's like the king. 0:51:57.620 --> 0:51:59.400 Rather than go to therapy. Yes. 0:51:59.520 --> 0:52:00.700 Exactly. 0:52:00.799 --> 0:52:03.759 This is just like, dude, look, just say you miss 0:52:03.779 --> 0:52:04.280 your dad. 0:52:04.600 --> 0:52:04.860 No. 0:52:05.480 --> 0:52:05.840 No. 0:52:07.839 --> 0:52:10.230 Chain me tighter. He says no. 0:52:11.250 --> 0:52:11.969 Psychotic. 0:52:12.569 --> 0:52:15.430 But regardless, in December, the two sides work out a trade, 0:52:15.529 --> 0:52:17.109 and the colonel gets to go home on the 26th. 0:52:17.109 --> 0:52:22.709 19 days later, the water freezes. Now, the winter of 0:52:22.710 --> 0:52:27.010 1779 into 1780 was the hardest of the century. Water 0:52:27.029 --> 0:52:30.710 rays around New York froze solid enough to carry infantry, artillery, 0:52:30.930 --> 0:52:33.590 and cavalry across the. 0:52:33.839 --> 0:52:35.380 Roman was like, this is tough. 0:52:35.440 --> 0:52:36.999 Just on foot. 0:52:37.339 --> 0:52:38.939 I've been made redundant. 0:52:39.279 --> 0:52:39.580 Yeah. 0:52:41.060 --> 0:52:43.950 So... On the night of January 14th 1780 Washington They. 0:52:43.989 --> 0:52:46.320 Thought everyone was Jesus And now they're. 0:52:46.210 --> 0:52:51.000 Jesus So on the night of January 14th 1780 Washington 0:52:51.040 --> 0:52:54.979 sent 2,500 men Across the ice Into Staten Island On 0:52:54.980 --> 0:53:01.009 300 sleds Borrowed from New Jersey farmers Whee Whee This 0:53:01.089 --> 0:53:07.029 is fun Huh? Yay The whole British force On the 0:53:07.109 --> 0:53:09.489 island Was 1,800 men So not enough to. 0:53:09.489 --> 0:53:11.589 Yeah So Washington's done Fucking around. 0:53:11.379 --> 0:53:14.809 Yeah So the British army asked the colonel to call 0:53:14.910 --> 0:53:18.310 out his militia. In town, the militia is mostly, up 0:53:18.370 --> 0:53:20.390 until now, they've been mostly just doing the grunt work, right? 0:53:20.589 --> 0:53:20.910 Right. 0:53:21.029 --> 0:53:24.870 Building stuff and bringing the supplies. Digging. Yeah, digging. 0:53:24.890 --> 0:53:25.469 Mainly digging. 0:53:25.649 --> 0:53:26.819 A lot of holes. 0:53:27.210 --> 0:53:29.939 What are we digging for? Not sure. Keep going. 0:53:31.020 --> 0:53:33.779 So combat like this is something new. So the colonel 0:53:33.799 --> 0:53:37.060 goes to his militia, and he asks them to come 0:53:37.419 --> 0:53:40.759 into the fort at Richmond, and then he begs them. 0:53:42.109 --> 0:53:45.350 He tells them what the Americans will do to this 0:53:45.509 --> 0:53:46.420 island if they take it. 0:53:46.430 --> 0:53:47.550 The Americans. 0:53:47.589 --> 0:53:51.670 Hang some of them, right? Uh-huh. And ruin the rest. 0:53:51.750 --> 0:53:57.779 Sure. Hang some. Do a set. Burn some. Another set. 0:53:58.799 --> 0:53:59.560 May I be hanged? 0:54:01.000 --> 0:54:03.320 And then he walks into the garrison like, let's go. 0:54:03.660 --> 0:54:09.560 And then nobody follows. Not one man would join the garrison. 0:54:11.020 --> 0:54:14.800 They then go to the public houses instead to drink 0:54:14.859 --> 0:54:16.930 and hear the news, or they just went home to 0:54:16.969 --> 0:54:21.269 see about their cattle or their land. And these are 0:54:21.310 --> 0:54:26.459 not secret rebels. They were men the American government had marked, 0:54:26.629 --> 0:54:30.519 many of them refugees out of New Jersey. Refugees from 0:54:30.540 --> 0:54:30.919 New Jersey. 0:54:31.879 --> 0:54:36.339 That is just remarkable. Some New Jersey refugees. 0:54:36.399 --> 0:54:38.020 That's what they call them in New York City. 0:54:38.040 --> 0:54:39.640 We've been through so much. 0:54:40.259 --> 0:54:42.200 Aren't you just doing this to make money on oysters? 0:54:42.600 --> 0:54:42.900 Yeah. 0:54:44.100 --> 0:54:46.660 Our home is gone. It's there. 0:54:48.000 --> 0:54:50.299 So some of them have every reason to expect to 0:54:50.339 --> 0:54:55.900 be hanged if the Americans win and lose everything they had, right? 0:54:56.219 --> 0:54:58.499 But they're still not going to step up and fight. 0:54:58.759 --> 0:54:58.939 Wow. 0:54:59.950 --> 0:55:02.450 The truth is the British had overstayed their welcome and 0:55:02.469 --> 0:55:05.150 then abused the island and its people badly. 0:55:05.310 --> 0:55:05.570 Yeah. 0:55:06.520 --> 0:55:09.739 So a man named Blake interviewed years later said, quote, 0:55:09.779 --> 0:55:13.719 the soldiers in general behaved at first very well, paying 0:55:13.759 --> 0:55:16.640 for everything that they took. But when they came back 0:55:16.739 --> 0:55:20.070 from Jersey, they stole everything they could lay their hands on. 0:55:22.190 --> 0:55:23.469 They started with fences. 0:55:25.799 --> 0:55:28.109 Where they started with stealing fences? 0:55:28.410 --> 0:55:29.930 That's right. What are you going to take? 0:55:29.950 --> 0:55:32.930 They fenced fences? Wow. 0:55:32.989 --> 0:55:34.250 You guys are being too literal. 0:55:34.629 --> 0:55:35.070 All right. 0:55:35.089 --> 0:55:37.210 Now this is how you fence, right? 0:55:37.419 --> 0:55:38.279 No. 0:55:38.359 --> 0:55:40.599 If we put this up on the battlefield, they'll never 0:55:40.640 --> 0:55:40.979 get us. 0:55:41.640 --> 0:55:44.040 Look at all these posts. Idiots. 0:55:46.620 --> 0:55:49.200 Fences are very important for a farm community Like Staten 0:55:49.239 --> 0:55:51.799 Island They keep the livestock from eating the crops But 0:55:51.839 --> 0:55:58.560 the British soldiers needed firewood So we just used the fences. 0:55:58.120 --> 0:55:59.660 My cow's over there. 0:56:02.290 --> 0:56:05.609 It's chaos Oh my god So yeah we got all 0:56:05.649 --> 0:56:09.850 this wood for our fences And we're quite cold. 0:56:11.489 --> 0:56:12.710 It's impossible man. 0:56:14.790 --> 0:56:18.930 Local Isaac Simonson quote, the fences were all destroyed, not 0:56:19.009 --> 0:56:21.879 a rail being left in three months. At that time, 0:56:21.980 --> 0:56:24.979 things were very cheap. After the British came, prices more 0:56:25.020 --> 0:56:25.540 than doubled. 0:56:25.799 --> 0:56:28.719 Can I just say, in the eternal Staten Island-ness of 0:56:28.759 --> 0:56:33.989 this story, this is like 18th century NIMBYism. Literally not 0:56:34.029 --> 0:56:38.459 in my back. You took away... What demarcated my backyard. 0:56:39.060 --> 0:56:40.920 That was– the taxes also. 0:56:40.940 --> 0:56:44.150 You think NIMBY is bad now. Yeah. 0:56:44.629 --> 0:56:48.189 I mean the British were– so the thing my mind 0:56:48.230 --> 0:56:51.330 always goes back to is when they took Philadelphia, they 0:56:51.370 --> 0:56:55.460 just took over houses and instead of using an outhouse, 0:56:56.169 --> 0:56:59.160 they would just– they just cut holes in the floor. 0:56:59.180 --> 0:56:59.860 Oh my god. 0:56:59.960 --> 0:57:01.560 And would just use that as their toilets. 0:57:01.580 --> 0:57:01.770 Oh my god. 0:57:02.219 --> 0:57:03.540 So they're not great. 0:57:04.460 --> 0:57:05.239 Not good guests. 0:57:05.600 --> 0:57:10.669 That's tough. There's an outhouse. There's also an inhouse. 0:57:12.290 --> 0:57:12.670 Christ. 0:57:12.770 --> 0:57:14.049 And that's how bathrooms are invented. 0:57:14.069 --> 0:57:15.029 We call it the loo. 0:57:15.930 --> 0:57:22.930 Yeah. By the way, the pitch was good. The pitch eventually. Directionally, yes. 0:57:23.169 --> 0:57:25.880 Eventually, we got there. 0:57:26.200 --> 0:57:28.900 There's nothing worse than the long hike. 0:57:30.300 --> 0:57:34.600 Dad's pooping. He's taking that long walk of shame. 0:57:35.940 --> 0:57:38.360 The first time the army went to New Jersey, a 0:57:38.419 --> 0:57:39.470 proclamation went out. 0:57:39.480 --> 0:57:41.360 Or if there was no toilet paper in the outhouse, 0:57:41.400 --> 0:57:43.260 that weird walk back to the main house. 0:57:43.340 --> 0:57:44.100 That is a rough one. 0:57:46.040 --> 0:57:47.220 Dad, were you shot? 0:57:47.700 --> 0:57:48.060 No. 0:57:48.900 --> 0:57:49.880 We're out of TP. 0:57:50.020 --> 0:57:52.140 They just use their jacket and throw it away behind. 0:57:52.919 --> 0:57:55.900 It's tough. It's a good conversation, though. The first time 0:57:55.960 --> 0:57:58.499 the army went to New Jersey, a proclamation went out 0:57:58.540 --> 0:58:00.729 telling everyone to put their fences back up. 0:58:04.310 --> 0:58:07.650 What? We found the issue that really gets them going. 0:58:07.810 --> 0:58:09.890 It's just like how we get an Amber Alert. I've 0:58:09.910 --> 0:58:10.770 got a defense alert. 0:58:11.790 --> 0:58:14.090 Then the army came home and destroyed the fences again. 0:58:14.590 --> 0:58:15.010 Damn it. 0:58:15.250 --> 0:58:18.150 What did the British use for firewood once they used 0:58:18.210 --> 0:58:21.200 up all the fences, you ask? Well, the churches, of course. 0:58:21.280 --> 0:58:22.320 Oh, my God. 0:58:22.820 --> 0:58:26.039 They're like literally the stuff that's most important. They're like, 0:58:26.080 --> 0:58:27.100 let's do that first. 0:58:27.160 --> 0:58:29.300 What about the trees? Is there a church here? 0:58:31.250 --> 0:58:36.650 There was a reformed Dutch church at Richmond Town. A 0:58:36.870 --> 0:58:40.490 frame building finished right about when the war started. A 0:58:40.550 --> 0:58:43.550 minister named Van Pelt, quote, the British used it gradually 0:58:43.630 --> 0:58:44.550 up for firewoods. 0:58:44.590 --> 0:58:44.749 Wow. 0:58:44.790 --> 0:58:46.170 They just used up the whole church. 0:58:46.410 --> 0:58:46.770 Wow. 0:58:47.890 --> 0:58:48.930 Well, now take the priest. 0:58:50.270 --> 0:58:54.040 A Presbyterian meeting house became a hospital and was then destroyed. 0:58:54.900 --> 0:58:57.060 This might be how they started burning people at the stake. 0:58:57.360 --> 0:58:57.959 Seriously. 0:58:58.100 --> 0:58:58.340 Yeah. 0:58:58.750 --> 0:59:01.570 We need more firewood. What about that lady? 0:59:03.450 --> 0:59:04.590 Can't use a good steak for that. 0:59:05.610 --> 0:59:08.510 All right, not the steak. We'll burn them on her. 0:59:08.590 --> 0:59:09.910 The two women, tape them together. 0:59:10.890 --> 0:59:12.689 Dolores, stand as long as you can. 0:59:13.050 --> 0:59:14.890 You've had tape this whole time? 0:59:14.910 --> 0:59:16.850 Yeah! 0:59:16.870 --> 0:59:17.770 You guys don't have tape? 0:59:18.370 --> 0:59:19.130 And yoga? 0:59:19.720 --> 0:59:22.360 Yeah, you guys don't have tape and yoga? 0:59:23.940 --> 0:59:26.680 The Dutch church at Port Richmond had a balcony, a 0:59:26.740 --> 0:59:28.780 steeple with a bell on it, and shingles from the 0:59:28.840 --> 0:59:29.439 ground up. 0:59:29.500 --> 0:59:31.289 Those are gone. Good night. 0:59:31.910 --> 0:59:36.229 Soldiers lived in it until eventually it blew over in 0:59:36.250 --> 0:59:38.750 a storm. No one is inside, but it blew over. 0:59:40.140 --> 0:59:42.260 At New Dorp, which is a name I'll never get 0:59:42.320 --> 0:59:43.200 over and no one should. 0:59:44.100 --> 0:59:48.890 And when it blew over, they all said, Dorp! A 0:59:48.970 --> 0:59:50.610 chorus of voices rose up. 0:59:51.050 --> 0:59:51.890 Oh, Dorp! 0:59:53.630 --> 0:59:58.610 Soldiers set fire to Gamble's Moravian Church, then came into 0:59:58.630 --> 1:00:02.700 the parsonage one evening, frightening his family, destroying their furniture, 1:00:02.720 --> 1:00:06.099 and and carried off the congregation's records, probably to burn. 1:00:07.780 --> 1:00:11.240 Gamble wrote that a complaint by civilians to British officers 1:00:11.380 --> 1:00:15.820 commonly makes bad worse. One Islander said he obeyed the 1:00:15.880 --> 1:00:19.300 two officers quartered in his house without ever objecting because 1:00:19.340 --> 1:00:21.869 there was no use in it. Quote, if I'd done so, 1:00:22.250 --> 1:00:25.230 we should have been requited with a curse and a 1:00:25.570 --> 1:00:26.630 blow of their swords. 1:00:26.650 --> 1:00:26.910 Hmm. 1:00:27.820 --> 1:00:28.160 Awkward. 1:00:28.200 --> 1:00:30.400 It's just amazing that they're treating the people that are 1:00:30.419 --> 1:00:31.979 helping them like this. 1:00:32.000 --> 1:00:34.600 Yeah, right. And that the people are taking it like, well, okay. 1:00:35.520 --> 1:00:38.390 So civil government is- There's an outhouse, guys. 1:00:38.669 --> 1:00:38.970 No. 1:00:39.110 --> 1:00:39.450 No. 1:00:40.730 --> 1:00:43.090 Civil government has stopped existing at this point. The courts 1:00:43.110 --> 1:00:46.419 were closed. The courthouse was burned. Jesus. 1:00:46.770 --> 1:00:47.660 Can we get that gavel? 1:00:50.130 --> 1:00:52.890 And yeah, these are their allies. So by this point, 1:00:52.990 --> 1:00:55.900 the militia members aren't really feeling particularly inclined to lay 1:00:55.940 --> 1:00:57.080 down their lives for the crown. 1:00:57.120 --> 1:01:00.100 You guys don't seem to have that... You're not excited anymore. 1:01:00.120 --> 1:01:02.419 Am I crazy? What's going on? 1:01:03.840 --> 1:01:08.120 So when the American rebels arrive, nobody is there to 1:01:08.160 --> 1:01:12.830 stop them. But the garrison held. The British spies had 1:01:12.850 --> 1:01:15.910 warned them Americans were coming and they were ready. And 1:01:15.950 --> 1:01:19.480 the soldiers stood on a frozen island... in a blizzard 1:01:19.520 --> 1:01:21.940 for a day and a half and went home without incident. 1:01:22.590 --> 1:01:25.670 But after the army came, hundreds of American civilians with sleds. 1:01:26.190 --> 1:01:28.270 They were dead set on looting the hell out of 1:01:28.290 --> 1:01:31.590 Staten Island. This is how it happens. 1:01:31.669 --> 1:01:33.189 Stop saying we. 1:01:33.450 --> 1:01:40.080 Not an invading army, but people like getting stuff. They 1:01:40.180 --> 1:01:42.300 emptied a man's store while he stood in it and 1:01:42.380 --> 1:01:44.340 burned another man's two sloops. 1:01:45.120 --> 1:01:46.220 His two sloops? 1:01:46.300 --> 1:01:46.700 Sloops. 1:01:47.440 --> 1:01:48.070 Sloop ships? 1:01:48.350 --> 1:01:49.189 Some kind of ship. 1:01:49.210 --> 1:01:49.770 Small ships. 1:01:49.890 --> 1:01:50.130 Sure. 1:01:50.710 --> 1:01:55.290 They took cattle, horses, carriages, bedding, and furniture. They took people. 1:01:56.290 --> 1:01:59.540 Long after the war, a man named Pompey Prowl remembered 1:01:59.560 --> 1:02:01.940 that night. He said ice was so strong that, quote, 1:02:02.320 --> 1:02:04.919 the Americans come over and steal colored people and sell 1:02:04.960 --> 1:02:05.800 them for slaves. 1:02:05.919 --> 1:02:07.939 Oh, sweet God. Never good. 1:02:09.320 --> 1:02:10.740 Got to make a buck, right? 1:02:10.900 --> 1:02:11.300 Never good. 1:02:11.320 --> 1:02:11.960 At all costs. 1:02:12.270 --> 1:02:15.270 Wait, the first part of that is ice was so strong? 1:02:15.970 --> 1:02:17.410 Yeah, so they could just run. 1:02:17.310 --> 1:02:20.030 Across the land. Their funding was in the homeland security bills. 1:02:20.350 --> 1:02:23.189 You're thinking, yeah, I get the... In today's environment, I 1:02:23.190 --> 1:02:23.790 get the mix-ups. 1:02:23.870 --> 1:02:27.070 I was just trying to parse what was being claimed 1:02:27.090 --> 1:02:27.840 about the climate. 1:02:29.120 --> 1:02:29.639 This is. 1:02:29.680 --> 1:02:32.900 Imagine a time when Tom Homan had teeth. That's what 1:02:32.940 --> 1:02:34.039 was happening in this area. 1:02:34.060 --> 1:02:39.280 No such time. The colonel's house was looted too, of course. Quote, 1:02:39.480 --> 1:02:42.610 the severe frost at last gave the rebels an easy 1:02:42.750 --> 1:02:45.980 access to his farm on the ice when they carried 1:02:46.260 --> 1:02:50.150 off a black man, his cattle, horses, carriages, bedding, and 1:02:50.250 --> 1:02:51.990 other furniture to a large amount. 1:02:52.010 --> 1:02:52.550 Not the bedding! 1:02:52.790 --> 1:02:53.950 Not the bedding, yeah. 1:02:54.090 --> 1:02:54.630 No! 1:02:55.830 --> 1:03:01.950 Magistrates valued the lot at 944 pounds. It also, he said, 1:03:01.990 --> 1:03:05.610 compelled him to move his family out of so exposed 1:03:05.650 --> 1:03:07.840 a situation. So he's like, well, I got to go. 1:03:07.860 --> 1:03:09.180 He's lost it all, I think, is the. 1:03:09.240 --> 1:03:09.880 I got to get out of here. 1:03:09.900 --> 1:03:10.939 Is his full repossession. 1:03:11.400 --> 1:03:12.479 I also... Yeah, no. 1:03:13.550 --> 1:03:14.630 Go ahead. 1:03:14.710 --> 1:03:18.790 This house, I believe in, I think it is Billups 1:03:18.810 --> 1:03:22.950 house where the attempt at a truce conference in the 1:03:22.990 --> 1:03:27.720 beginning of the revolution is held. Like after the British 1:03:27.780 --> 1:03:31.340 launched the big battle in New York City from Staten 1:03:31.419 --> 1:03:37.740 Island on September 11th, I think 1776. They're like, all right, 1:03:38.020 --> 1:03:40.340 now you've seen what we can do. Do you want 1:03:40.360 --> 1:03:43.840 to make nice? And they invite, I think it's Ben 1:03:43.880 --> 1:03:48.959 Franklin and maybe Adams over to Bill's house on Staten Island. 1:03:49.290 --> 1:03:52.430 And they're like, we can make this all disappear. You 1:03:52.470 --> 1:03:55.330 just like agree that nothing happens and you love the 1:03:55.370 --> 1:03:57.990 king and it can all go back to as it was. 1:03:58.390 --> 1:04:01.470 And that's like, that's the moment when we all, we 1:04:01.510 --> 1:04:03.650 could have just remained part of great Britain and we 1:04:03.810 --> 1:04:04.470 chose not to. 1:04:04.490 --> 1:04:06.010 Oh my God. 1:04:06.190 --> 1:04:06.430 Yeah. 1:04:07.960 --> 1:04:10.100 That's so great. They were probably like, this is the 1:04:10.160 --> 1:04:12.070 most important thing that will ever happen on 9-11. 1:04:12.100 --> 1:04:14.940 Yes, exactly. This is huge. 1:04:15.419 --> 1:04:18.909 History will remember this. They will never forget what happened 1:04:18.950 --> 1:04:19.309 in here today. 1:04:19.330 --> 1:04:20.510 Phil Pappas remembers this. 1:04:20.830 --> 1:04:23.010 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, right. 1:04:23.110 --> 1:04:23.309 Yeah. 1:04:24.690 --> 1:04:28.610 So the colonel moves after he comes back from prison. 1:04:29.110 --> 1:04:31.710 He stops sleeping in his house. Every night he walked 1:04:31.930 --> 1:04:35.850 up from Bentley to his father-in-law's to sleep. And every 1:04:35.890 --> 1:04:38.590 night somebody sat up to watch over him while he 1:04:38.700 --> 1:04:42.380 slept because the colonel was a very hard snorer. and 1:04:42.400 --> 1:04:46.010 he was worried he would sleep through another kidnapping attempt. 1:04:46.130 --> 1:04:50.669 Oh, my God. Come on. That's REM I've never experienced. 1:04:50.750 --> 1:04:53.520 That's amazing. You're stressed enough that you're worried that you're 1:04:53.540 --> 1:04:55.380 going to be kidnapped at any point, but you're still 1:04:55.419 --> 1:04:58.260 sleeping deeply enough that you need someone to watch you. 1:04:58.300 --> 1:04:59.559 I would be up all night. 1:05:00.060 --> 1:05:02.599 I get 12 hours. Yeah, all night. 1:05:02.720 --> 1:05:03.860 I mean, once I'm out, I'm out. 1:05:03.960 --> 1:05:09.530 Yeah. snoring also the like logic of that makes no 1:05:09.610 --> 1:05:12.650 sense it's like he's snoring deep loudly enough that he 1:05:12.690 --> 1:05:14.550 can't hear the he. 1:05:14.390 --> 1:05:16.950 That's probably what he thinks yeah yeah. 1:05:16.790 --> 1:05:19.209 This is this is a different time. 1:05:21.250 --> 1:05:23.150 They didn't know a lot of sleep apnea back. 1:05:23.030 --> 1:05:25.280 You still got a casper mattress he. 1:05:25.150 --> 1:05:29.939 Does Actually, Helix is actually the mattress he probably had. 1:05:29.980 --> 1:05:33.110 Not to jump on your sponsors, Ben, but even back then, 1:05:33.169 --> 1:05:36.309 if you want a mattress, you could be kidnapped. 1:05:35.550 --> 1:05:37.250 Off of- You know what? If he's sleeping that deeply, 1:05:37.310 --> 1:05:39.889 it's probably a Helix. 1:05:39.950 --> 1:05:44.190 California duck slucks, which is quite a bit. The Staten 1:05:44.250 --> 1:05:46.760 Island duck slucks use promo code Staten Island or promo 1:05:46.780 --> 1:05:47.300 code Billups. 1:05:47.540 --> 1:05:47.800 Thank you. 1:05:47.840 --> 1:05:49.960 It's filled with wooden fences. 1:05:50.780 --> 1:05:51.040 Yes. 1:05:51.480 --> 1:05:52.200 Nice and comfy. 1:05:53.020 --> 1:05:58.250 The new Helix horse meat mattress. filled with a whole horse. 1:05:58.270 --> 1:05:59.530 It's one of a kind. 1:05:59.890 --> 1:06:02.010 Listen, why did we shoot it? We don't know, but 1:06:02.050 --> 1:06:04.150 we stuffed it in some felt. Now you're going to 1:06:04.190 --> 1:06:05.450 felt a good night's sleep. 1:06:07.790 --> 1:06:11.120 So Staten Islanders are now refusing to serve in the 1:06:11.160 --> 1:06:14.660 loyalist militia and they go further. What's their problem? Some 1:06:14.700 --> 1:06:18.480 are passing the Americans information about the strength and condition 1:06:18.540 --> 1:06:23.100 of British troops. A private complained that the residents were 1:06:23.140 --> 1:06:27.490 spying for the enemy, ambushing patrols and taking every opportunity 1:06:27.550 --> 1:06:31.800 to shoot at the soldiers of the garrison. You're not 1:06:31.820 --> 1:06:35.460 on the same side anymore. It's pretty clear. 1:06:35.820 --> 1:06:36.740 It feels like it's turned. 1:06:36.820 --> 1:06:38.999 It feels like when they're actually shooting at you. I'm 1:06:39.020 --> 1:06:39.360 starting to. 1:06:39.360 --> 1:06:41.710 Understand how Staten Island became a part. 1:06:41.530 --> 1:06:41.970 Of New York. 1:06:45.090 --> 1:06:47.750 The British had had enough, and they evacuated Staten Island 1:06:47.870 --> 1:06:50.430 on December 3rd, 1783. 1:06:50.430 --> 1:06:51.070 We've all done it. 1:06:51.510 --> 1:06:54.459 Residents came down to the shore to watch the fleet go. 1:06:55.460 --> 1:06:59.789 One wrote, quote, we are very boisterous in our demonstrations 1:06:59.930 --> 1:07:03.170 of joy. We clapped our hands. We waved our hats. 1:07:03.230 --> 1:07:06.630 We sprang into the air. And some few who had 1:07:06.710 --> 1:07:13.459 brought muskets with them fired a foot of joy. A 1:07:13.500 --> 1:07:16.870 few others in the exuberance of their gladness indulged in 1:07:16.950 --> 1:07:21.840 gestures which though very expressive, were neither polite nor judicious. 1:07:22.760 --> 1:07:23.820 The old finger. 1:07:23.960 --> 1:07:26.560 One guy from Philly ate horse poop to celebrate and 1:07:26.660 --> 1:07:31.099 everyone felt pretty weird about it. That is so funny 1:07:31.140 --> 1:07:35.640 to listen to how they wrote about euphoria. 1:07:36.040 --> 1:07:39.160 Demonstrations of boisterous joy. 1:07:39.400 --> 1:07:42.380 There were demonstrations of boisterous joy. We were waving our hats. 1:07:42.780 --> 1:07:44.100 A few gentlemen shot muskets. 1:07:45.050 --> 1:07:48.169 Hey, hey! Remember, we have nothing. 1:07:49.870 --> 1:07:52.340 Some people left some sleds on the island, but other 1:07:52.380 --> 1:07:52.860 than that. 1:07:53.760 --> 1:07:55.599 Some people didn't realize it was the spring and tried 1:07:55.640 --> 1:07:57.479 to sled to the island. This was great! 1:07:57.540 --> 1:07:58.420 I shot a horse! 1:07:58.600 --> 1:07:59.080 Why? 1:07:59.100 --> 1:08:00.499 What do we have? 1:08:00.540 --> 1:08:01.060 Woo! 1:08:02.000 --> 1:08:04.519 Nobody knows how many Loyalists left with the fleet, but 1:08:04.560 --> 1:08:07.830 the island came out of the war with more people 1:08:08.230 --> 1:08:12.750 than when it started. Wow. 2008, 1847, and it was now... 3,835. 1:08:15.080 --> 1:08:22.599 So they gained 1,000 people. And Colonel Christopher Billup left, 1:08:22.820 --> 1:08:26.660 and in September 1783, he filed his claim in London. 1:08:27.340 --> 1:08:28.000 His claim? 1:08:28.580 --> 1:08:31.900 For losses from incursions. One hat. 1:08:34.280 --> 1:08:35.880 Three good night's sleeps. 1:08:37.840 --> 1:08:39.560 My mommy gave me that hat! 1:08:40.080 --> 1:08:44.820 One yoga mat and blocks. Wow. 1:08:45.180 --> 1:08:46.340 Horse, obviously. 1:08:46.360 --> 1:08:46.440 Yeah. 1:08:47.520 --> 1:08:48.150 That was a tough one. 1:08:48.260 --> 1:08:49.740 Unnecessarily shot. 1:08:51.780 --> 1:08:55.240 Okay, so losses from the incursions of the enemy, 1,500 pounds. 1:08:55.270 --> 1:08:57.600 I thought they would say it was valued. 1:08:57.090 --> 1:08:57.290 At 944 pounds. 1:08:57.310 --> 1:08:58.750 Where is that inflation? Losses of the ice in one night, 1:08:58.750 --> 1:09:01.150 944 pounds. pounds did you say where is. 1:09:01.130 --> 1:09:06.760 That that places losses of the ice uh of losses 1:09:06.940 --> 1:09:10.320 of the ice in one night 944 pounds so that's 1:09:10.880 --> 1:09:14.370 when all the people came after uh-huh when all the 1:09:14.410 --> 1:09:19.090 people just ran over and stole everything losses to the 1:09:19.130 --> 1:09:24.750 british yeah losses to the british military 1441 pounds For 1:09:24.790 --> 1:09:27.990 living away from his family for seven years, 1,500 pounds. 1:09:28.490 --> 1:09:29.210 That was very tough. 1:09:30.550 --> 1:09:33.780 You could have just stopped. That was a tough time. 1:09:33.980 --> 1:09:37.640 For the forced sale of his land, 4,752 pounds. To 1:09:37.680 --> 1:09:41.620 prove it all, he brings deeds going all the way 1:09:41.720 --> 1:09:45.040 back to 1687. He's got orders from three generals about 1:09:45.160 --> 1:09:49.260 him having to stay there. And an American newspaper reporting 1:09:49.600 --> 1:09:52.700 on his spirited conduct in the only battle he was in. 1:09:52.880 --> 1:09:54.200 So that's his record. 1:09:54.220 --> 1:09:54.400 Sure. 1:09:55.370 --> 1:09:59.390 Two generals swear for him. His claim for loss of 1:09:59.430 --> 1:10:05.900 property entered in the commissioner's ledger is 5,171 pounds and 1:10:05.900 --> 1:10:06.580 10 shillings. 1:10:06.940 --> 1:10:09.840 That's like the rest of your life, right? You're set. 1:10:10.440 --> 1:10:11.320 That's a nice chunk. 1:10:11.400 --> 1:10:13.100 Well, then they just give him 400 pounds. 1:10:13.740 --> 1:10:14.020 What? 1:10:14.600 --> 1:10:19.740 And they offer him. 80 pounds a year, I guess, 1:10:19.760 --> 1:10:21.280 in a pension or whatever. 1:10:21.300 --> 1:10:22.059 Oh, my God. 1:10:22.100 --> 1:10:24.960 The British are not looking good in this. 1:10:25.060 --> 1:10:25.800 No, they're not. 1:10:25.840 --> 1:10:28.420 Maybe the revolution was a good idea. 1:10:28.460 --> 1:10:30.500 For the first time ever, the British are coming out 1:10:30.540 --> 1:10:35.480 a little scared. That is crazy. All that, they're like, 1:10:36.180 --> 1:10:40.550 we'll give you 490 a year. That's terrible. That's a 1:10:40.730 --> 1:10:41.730 bad deal. 1:10:42.370 --> 1:10:44.030 Almost avert the entire thing. 1:10:44.520 --> 1:10:48.200 I gave my life up for what you were doing. Yeah. Anyway, 1:10:48.820 --> 1:10:49.240 get out. 1:10:52.360 --> 1:10:55.560 One sentence was added to the decision. Quote, at the time, 1:10:55.640 --> 1:10:58.080 we think it is necessary to say that on his 1:10:58.160 --> 1:11:02.660 going to Nova Scotia, we mean the said allowance shall cease. 1:11:03.450 --> 1:11:05.850 So he goes to Nova Scotia, the 80 pounds is 1:11:05.910 --> 1:11:07.970 over because they know his plan is to move to 1:11:08.010 --> 1:11:10.990 Nova Scotia. And when he does, he gets no more money. 1:11:11.810 --> 1:11:12.450 He does move? 1:11:12.950 --> 1:11:17.220 Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot of crisscrossing. It's like, why 1:11:17.280 --> 1:11:20.080 go to London from Staten Island just to ping pong 1:11:20.150 --> 1:11:21.210 right back again? 1:11:21.970 --> 1:11:25.770 That's how you don't make small talk with the decision makers. No, 1:11:25.790 --> 1:11:30.690 Scotia's pretty nice. They're like, got it. 1:11:30.930 --> 1:11:33.550 I hate flying to the East Coast. I can't imagine. 1:11:34.410 --> 1:11:35.070 It's your life. 1:11:35.770 --> 1:11:40.020 My life's been pretty much three boat rides. That's been 1:11:40.060 --> 1:11:40.640 pretty much it. 1:11:42.350 --> 1:11:44.530 And a couple months in New Jersey. 1:11:44.770 --> 1:11:45.190 Yeah. 1:11:45.250 --> 1:11:45.630 Yeah. 1:11:45.770 --> 1:11:46.730 Yeah. 1:11:46.790 --> 1:11:49.890 Billup does very well in Nova Scotia. He sat in 1:11:49.930 --> 1:11:53.560 the first New Brunswick Assembly and then on the province's 1:11:53.640 --> 1:11:58.080 council by appointment of the king. And he died at St. 1:11:58.240 --> 1:11:59.760 John in 1827, age 90, worth at least $ 75, 000. 1:11:59.640 --> 1:11:59.780 Wow. 1:11:59.840 --> 1:12:01.060 That's a lot of money. 1:12:01.080 --> 1:12:01.720 That's a real. 1:12:01.720 --> 1:12:03.180 92. Are those Canadian dollars? 1:12:03.500 --> 1:12:03.800 Yes. 1:12:08.050 --> 1:12:09.470 Yeah, oh yeah, there's a difference. 1:12:09.490 --> 1:12:10.309 Never mind, so. 1:12:10.210 --> 1:12:13.270 It's $ 7. 1:12:12.010 --> 1:12:12.670 He was a bummer. 1:12:13.010 --> 1:12:14.670 Living to 90 with all that. 1:12:15.730 --> 1:12:19.510 That's really impressive. 90 and those, that's crazy. 1:12:19.650 --> 1:12:20.990 Those are solid stats. 1:12:21.450 --> 1:12:24.350 His headstone says that his uncompromising loyalty. 1:12:24.390 --> 1:12:26.690 His headstone at the end says, Turn over for more. 1:12:28.970 --> 1:12:30.250 Second episode to follow. 1:12:31.990 --> 1:12:35.510 His headstone says that his uncompromising loyalty during the American 1:12:35.570 --> 1:12:39.729 Rebellion obliged him at the termination of that contest to abandon, 1:12:39.750 --> 1:12:44.430 without compensation, his hereditary property on Staten Island. 1:12:44.490 --> 1:12:46.030 That's what you're saying about book titles. 1:12:46.150 --> 1:12:47.910 The headstone is still just like bitter. 1:12:47.940 --> 1:12:51.760 It's a bitter headstone. Also, you're like, wait, what? 1:12:52.040 --> 1:12:52.780 He was a traitor. 1:12:54.520 --> 1:12:57.380 Staten Island was under occupation for seven years and five months, 1:12:57.880 --> 1:13:00.700 longer than any community in America during the Revolution. 1:13:00.720 --> 1:13:02.010 Wow. That is crazy. 1:13:02.050 --> 1:13:04.350 Yeah, but at what point do they start calling it 1:13:04.390 --> 1:13:05.150 an occupation? 1:13:05.590 --> 1:13:09.050 I know, right? Yeah, like three years in. All right, wait, 1:13:09.110 --> 1:13:10.510 fuck this. No, no, no. 1:13:10.550 --> 1:13:12.030 You know what? This is bad for me. 1:13:12.860 --> 1:13:18.400 All right, wait a minute. Wow, that is so– you. 1:13:20.260 --> 1:13:22.120 Know, that's what's so funny about this sort of stuff, 1:13:22.180 --> 1:13:25.320 at least for me, is I never think about these little– 1:13:25.700 --> 1:13:29.560 wrinkles of how difficult this was to actually get done 1:13:30.100 --> 1:13:31.820 like i feel like it's just like yeah one day 1:13:31.840 --> 1:13:33.620 it was done and then instead you're like no no 1:13:33.700 --> 1:13:35.840 no staten island. 1:13:35.740 --> 1:13:39.300 What a traitorous island well and they had like obviously 1:13:39.330 --> 1:13:41.910 it was the right position they were just like yeah 1:13:41.930 --> 1:13:44.850 we have access to the british empire the rocking the 1:13:44.890 --> 1:13:46.550 boat is going to mean there's going to be guys 1:13:46.650 --> 1:13:49.290 on sleds coming over and kidnapping like. 1:13:49.150 --> 1:13:51.770 Let's just like a mini hormuz. 1:13:52.350 --> 1:13:59.400 Exactly Well, it's almost like medieval or before. You just 1:13:59.420 --> 1:14:01.280 think all of a sudden the river's frozen, and then 1:14:01.300 --> 1:14:04.940 all these people are just running across the ground. Sledding! 1:14:05.000 --> 1:14:05.740 Sledding! 1:14:05.920 --> 1:14:07.630 It was actually the invention of the ice luge. 1:14:08.290 --> 1:14:10.930 Yeah, yeah, it was the bomb sledders. 1:14:11.950 --> 1:14:17.090 Sources, Philip Pappas, that ever-loyal island, Staten Island in the 1:14:17.110 --> 1:14:22.390 American Revolution. Charles Anthon. Anthon? Who dropped the Y off there? 1:14:23.030 --> 1:14:27.470 Dave Anthony, so he's obviously taking issue with that. 1:14:27.570 --> 1:14:32.850 It's personal now. Completely personal. The Y is the whole thing! 1:14:34.710 --> 1:14:39.160 Interview notebooks, Staten Island. History of Richmond County. Richard Bales. 1:14:39.720 --> 1:14:44.330 History of Richmond County. J.J. Clute, Annals of Staten Island, 1:14:44.530 --> 1:14:48.590 and William Davis, The Conference or Billup House, Staten Island, 1:14:48.610 --> 1:14:48.930 New York. 1:14:50.450 --> 1:14:50.710 Yeah. 1:14:50.970 --> 1:14:53.430 Wow. That was great. That's wild. 1:14:53.690 --> 1:14:54.730 Amazing. 1:14:54.830 --> 1:14:56.890 Now, you didn't really know any of that, which also 1:14:56.990 --> 1:14:57.690 surprises me. 1:14:58.970 --> 1:15:01.250 I did not. I didn't know anything about the Billup story. 1:15:01.430 --> 1:15:06.420 I knew about Staten Island's preferences during the American Revolution. Yeah. 1:15:06.720 --> 1:15:11.150 But Billup is really an amazing– As they say in 1:15:11.230 --> 1:15:12.660 story terms, he's a great donkey. 1:15:13.180 --> 1:15:15.190 Yeah, he really is. He really is. 1:15:16.030 --> 1:15:19.250 Um well uh ben thank you so much for joining 1:15:19.330 --> 1:15:20.750 us i mean this was great. 1:15:20.550 --> 1:15:23.590 Yeah this was a blast thank you guys so so. 1:15:23.410 --> 1:15:26.200 Just remind remind everyone again where they can go. 1:15:26.020 --> 1:15:29.360 If if we've wet the palette yeah if you're just 1:15:29.400 --> 1:15:33.240 like what i need is more staten island stories if 1:15:33.280 --> 1:15:37.540 you want to hear this happen in 1989 to 1993 1:15:37.540 --> 1:15:40.040 and and uh think about it as a parable for 1:15:40.060 --> 1:15:42.360 what's going on in the country now then you should 1:15:42.620 --> 1:15:45.960 come listen to the staten island problem on revisionist history. 1:15:46.300 --> 1:15:48.300 I mean all i was thinking reading this is like 1:15:48.500 --> 1:15:52.540 oh so you you supported a king like yeah sort 1:15:52.580 --> 1:15:55.490 of thing and then uh then you cut shit all 1:15:55.570 --> 1:15:57.510 over yeah and now you're mad and how does it 1:15:57.530 --> 1:16:00.090 huh interesting how did that how did that go over 1:16:00.130 --> 1:16:02.930 time interesting yeah how'd that go. 1:16:02.910 --> 1:16:07.240 In the long run yeah yeah uh well thank you 1:16:07.280 --> 1:16:11.340 ben and uh and yeah enjoy what ben does and 1:16:11.360 --> 1:16:12.820 you You've been listeners. 1:16:12.860 --> 1:16:14.000 Enjoy what we do. 1:16:14.040 --> 1:16:16.060 This was great. Thank you guys. This was, this was really, 1:16:16.100 --> 1:16:16.540 really fun. 1:16:16.600 --> 1:16:17.080 Thank you. 1:16:18.620 --> 1:16:21.330 Part one, dishonest conversations. 1:16:21.800 --> 1:16:23.610 Chapter one, a shooting lesson. 1:16:40.230 --> 1:16:43.890 Forty minutes outside of Raleigh, North Carolina, deep in the 1:16:43.930 --> 1:16:48.330 piney woods, there is an outdoor shooting range. Nothing fancy. 1:16:48.910 --> 1:16:52.470 A winding gravel driveway. A little shed where you sign in. 1:16:53.210 --> 1:16:56.010 A series of long shooting alleys hollowed out of the 1:16:56.050 --> 1:16:59.510 side of a hill. A man named Greg Wallace drove 1:16:59.530 --> 1:17:02.570 me there one day in his SUV. A big bag 1:17:02.610 --> 1:17:05.620 of guns and equipment in the back. Wallace is a 1:17:05.630 --> 1:17:09.380 law professor and a competitive shooter. Gray hair. Thoughtful. 1:17:09.850 --> 1:17:10.210 Friendly. 1:17:10.990 --> 1:17:13.210 We set up cardboard targets in the shape of a 1:17:13.250 --> 1:17:16.440 man's head and torso and put on ear protection. 1:17:18.620 --> 1:17:20.260 All right, we're going to start off with this one 1:17:20.300 --> 1:17:24.700 right here. This is a, it's a custom built. 1:17:26.420 --> 1:17:26.540 AR-15. 1:17:26.660 --> 1:17:31.530 It has the adjustable stock. It has a 14 and 1:17:31.540 --> 1:17:33.770 a half inch barrel. 1:17:34.470 --> 1:17:37.190 He handed me the gun. It was much smaller than 1:17:37.230 --> 1:17:40.210 I thought it would be and much heavier. A solid 1:17:40.530 --> 1:17:41.190 block of metal. 1:17:41.910 --> 1:17:42.270 All right. 1:17:43.030 --> 1:17:43.890 You want to shoot it? 1:17:43.930 --> 1:17:44.130 Yeah. 1:17:44.390 --> 1:17:44.730 Okay. 1:17:44.870 --> 1:17:45.190 All right. 1:17:45.830 --> 1:17:46.130 I will. 1:17:46.770 --> 1:17:50.950 Let's get you comfortable on this here. So see if 1:17:51.010 --> 1:17:53.810 that works. Now what you need to do is to 1:17:54.310 --> 1:17:54.950 hold it up here. 1:17:55.110 --> 1:17:55.450 Okay. 1:17:55.770 --> 1:17:58.979 He adjusted the rifle so it fit snugly against my shoulder. 1:17:59.200 --> 1:17:59.490 All right. 1:17:59.980 --> 1:18:01.820 And then you need to lean your head over a 1:18:01.820 --> 1:18:04.760 little bit where you can see with your, you keep 1:18:04.800 --> 1:18:06.680 looking with your right eye. You want to see that 1:18:06.700 --> 1:18:08.160 you want to find the red dot in there. 1:18:10.340 --> 1:18:11.000 Oh, I see the red dot. 1:18:11.020 --> 1:18:11.440 You see it? 1:18:11.880 --> 1:18:12.080 Yep. 1:18:12.500 --> 1:18:12.660 Yep. 1:18:12.820 --> 1:18:15.020 I want you to bring your left foot forward. Get 1:18:15.060 --> 1:18:16.840 in that kind of boxing stance. 1:18:16.880 --> 1:18:17.420 There you go. 1:18:17.440 --> 1:18:18.070 There you go. 1:18:18.080 --> 1:18:22.150 All right. Bend forward just a little bit. All right. Now, 1:18:22.350 --> 1:18:24.870 I'm going to take it off of safety. Now, once 1:18:24.890 --> 1:18:27.310 you touch that trigger, once the safety goes off, it 1:18:27.350 --> 1:18:27.870 will fire. 1:18:28.170 --> 1:18:33.550 Okay? I fired once and then twice. I missed the 1:18:33.590 --> 1:18:37.360 target badly. Wallace stepped in and made some adjustments. My 1:18:37.480 --> 1:18:39.870 feet were in the wrong place. I had taken my 1:18:40.070 --> 1:18:42.310 eye off the target. I hadn't been prepared for the 1:18:42.330 --> 1:18:45.250 way the rifle moved after I pulled the trigger. Then 1:18:45.300 --> 1:18:49.680 I fired again. Much better. Wallace gestured towards the cardboard 1:18:49.760 --> 1:18:52.600 cutout of a human torso at the end of the range, 1:18:52.600 --> 1:18:55.350 now with a neat bullet hole to the chest. He 1:18:55.350 --> 1:18:59.030 seemed pleased with my progress. He told me, I would 1:18:59.050 --> 1:19:05.180 have put him down. Guns are the great distinctive feature 1:19:05.280 --> 1:19:08.960 of American life. No other country has such a wide 1:19:09.020 --> 1:19:12.480 variety of firearms owned by such an enormous share of 1:19:12.540 --> 1:19:17.540 its population. For generations, Americans have struggled to make sense 1:19:17.580 --> 1:19:20.660 of this fact. If you've ever seen a bumper sticker 1:19:21.020 --> 1:19:24.140 on a gun enthusiast's car saying something like, guns don't 1:19:24.180 --> 1:19:27.140 kill people, people do, you'll have a sense of what 1:19:27.200 --> 1:19:31.580 the argument is about. Are guns the cause of America's 1:19:31.700 --> 1:19:35.760 ills or the symptom? In this book, we will come 1:19:35.840 --> 1:19:39.200 to a consideration of those questions in due course. But 1:19:39.260 --> 1:19:41.840 in this, the first section of The American Way of Killing, 1:19:42.360 --> 1:19:46.140 I want to focus on how dishonest this argument has become. 1:19:47.260 --> 1:19:50.740 By dishonest, I don't mean that one or both sides 1:19:50.800 --> 1:19:55.470 in the fight over guns are deliberately lying. Dishonesty comes 1:19:55.530 --> 1:19:59.190 in many more subtle flavors than that. A conversation that 1:19:59.250 --> 1:20:02.910 starts with the best of intentions can become dishonest for 1:20:02.980 --> 1:20:06.760 any number of reasons. When either side pretends that something 1:20:06.800 --> 1:20:10.760 is consequential when it is not. When either side avoids 1:20:10.820 --> 1:20:14.769 the right conclusion because it is too difficult. Or when 1:20:15.040 --> 1:20:19.280 either side blinds itself to the truth. through laziness or indifference. 1:20:20.360 --> 1:20:24.190 The American conversation about guns is rife with these kinds 1:20:24.230 --> 1:20:25.010 of dishonesties.