1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Well, well, well, 2 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: Darwin is entering the car, Yes, entering the conversation again. 3 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: Though we have talked about Darwin in the past, because 4 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: there's a lot of stuff that people don't know. We 5 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: think of origin of the species, and we just we 6 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: stopped there in school. What is this? Why are we 7 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: talking about Darwin? This is ridiculous history. Thank you for 8 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: coming through. I am not Darwin. You're not Darwin. My 9 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: name is Ben, my name is Nolan. I immediately regret 10 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: my joke because I'm a little I'm on like west 11 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: East coast brains still where we're still on the West coast, uh, 12 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: and we've been staying up quite late, even by West 13 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 1: Coast standards. So it's been mega mega late by East 14 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:11,960 Speaker 1: Coast standards. Um, and we've had a bit of a 15 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: whirlwind experience. But it's kind of been fun. I'm leaning 16 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: into the punchiness. But Darwin, I hardly knew him. That 17 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: doesn't even make sense. I know, I thought it had 18 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: an internal lot. It was the phonemes of it that 19 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: kind of triggered my brain to do a thing that 20 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: just didn't work out. But I'm owning up to it. 21 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: I'm no old that I say that already. Yeah. Oh 22 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: I well, I'm glad you did. Either way, people might 23 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: have been confused. You're who is this? Fool's fine? You're no, 24 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 1: I'm Ben. We're joined in spirit, as always, with our 25 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 1: super producer Casey Pegram. God only knows where we'd be 26 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: without him. Uh, each reference a little bit. La Bouche 27 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: is a big fan of the Beach Boys, right, fantastic. 28 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: The French love the Beach Boys. I don't know, and 29 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: probably do. French have notoriously good taste. I'm right there 30 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: with you. I slept like maybe an hour before this. 31 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: But we are also joined with our at turning guests, 32 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: super producer Danald Goodman. How's it going, Man, It's going great? 33 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 1: Ready for another episode of fun. We're the sweetest guy 34 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 1: I know, right, and it's got like these great food recommendations. 35 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: You know, did you I didn't get any food, Rex, 36 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: you gotta ask. We can talk after that. Sounds good. 37 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: I'm ready for it. Um. I went to a place 38 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: called the fleet Footed Goose. No, it wasn't that, it 39 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: was just the running goose. See. I added too many 40 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 1: words to you've been to the running goose. I have 41 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: not where where's that's right around here? It's on the 42 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: front end of the block. Or no, I'm sorry the 43 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: uh I want to say it's on Cowanga. Um. It 44 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: was right across from a place called Beauty and Essex 45 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: or kind of like right around there. It's just a 46 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: little cafe. I had been there before and they have 47 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 1: a salmon belly sandwich that's quite delightful. But you went 48 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: to a bond me place that seems to be the 49 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: talk of the office here bon bon. We from Daniel's recommendation, 50 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: which was pretty amazing. They got this Georgian flatbread. Georgia 51 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: the country. Uh. So, apparently you guys are sick of 52 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: it sometimes. We've had quite a few times at this point. 53 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: But it's a it's a standard haunt, as it were. 54 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: So the way we can segue this, uh is to 55 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: talk about one of our earlier episodes. He did a 56 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: two part series on weird historical flexes with our pals 57 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: Jack and Miles from the Daily Seite. Guys and Jack 58 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: hipped us to one of the strangest Darwin facts we 59 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: had learned up to that point, which was well, it 60 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: was the fact that Darwin um in college had been 61 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: a member of this like fraternity that was all about 62 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: eating exotic creatures. Uh. And he took that lust for 63 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: murder and flesh, exotic fleshes uh and and applied it 64 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: to his research where when he was exploring the Galapagos 65 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: and you know, charting all of the different species that 66 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: he encountered, and you know that it made up the 67 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: great tapestry that is the human experience and life on Earth, 68 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: he'd eat at least one of each of them. Yeah, 69 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: sometimes more. I think he consumes so many, uh, Galapagossian 70 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: sortises that he single handedly was was a big part 71 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: of the reason they went they went endangered and then extinct. 72 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: I don't know, I might be overstating the case. They're 73 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: a little bit, but I'm pretty sure there's some truth 74 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: to them. Yeah. Yeah. And so again, as we say, 75 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 1: whenever Darwin comes up in conversation on or off the air, 76 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: thanks for ruining that for us, Jack, thanks for ruining 77 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:27,799 Speaker 1: that guy for us. I always say, Darwin, I hardly 78 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 1: knew him. See, I think you should lead into it. 79 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: It's like, this is me now, I'm such an easy 80 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 1: crowd today, man, because I'm at that stage where it's 81 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: like my head is stuffed with cotton. I'm I'm very adult. 82 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: Everything seems surreal and hilarious and loaded with symbolism and 83 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: double entendre. Well, Daniel seems to think we're funny. We're 84 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 1: getting some some solid laughs out of him. It could 85 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: just be the fact that we're literally like two men 86 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: losing their minds in a fish tank, and he is 87 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: the audience. Here's the thing. Oh you said, Okay, he 88 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: thinks it's hum aw. Let's continue. Let's let's continue with 89 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: today's Darwin story. Today's Darwin story. Yes, uh, there's another 90 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:13,239 Speaker 1: thing that people may generally not know about Charles Darwin. 91 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:20,479 Speaker 1: Like many famous, historically influential individuals, he is the sum 92 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: of more than one person's work. We stand on the 93 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 1: shoulder of giants and one we stand on just the 94 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: one shoulder. It's usually the left because like regular sized bipeds, um, 95 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: you know, like giants are right handed. And also one 96 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: giant shoulder would be the equivalent of a set of 97 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:43,359 Speaker 1: shoulders for a regular size many yeah, many shoulders biped ye. 98 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: So so there there is a person in the evolution 99 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: of Darwin which terrible choice of words on my part. 100 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: There's there's a person in Darwin's past who is who 101 00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: plays a crucial and vital role in all of the 102 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,799 Speaker 1: work that Darwin went on to create. He's a person 103 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: that many of us may not have heard of before. 104 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: His name is very cool, by the way, it is 105 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: John Edmond Stone D Stone. I don't know why, you 106 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: know why? I know why. What makes me think of 107 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,559 Speaker 1: the Flintstones because everyone's last name and the flint Stone 108 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:21,359 Speaker 1: ended with Stone. Everybody, maybe not everybody. Well, there's there's 109 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: Betty and Barney, Rubble. There we go. I got one 110 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: that's that's like a that's a construction rock related thing. Anyway, 111 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,119 Speaker 1: it just makes me think of the Flintstone. That's great. 112 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: And I I uh, I think Rubble. I think you're 113 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 1: on to something with the rock themes. Anyway. John Edmond 114 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: Stone not an inspiration for the Flintstones as far as 115 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: we know, but he was one of the sources of 116 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: support and inspiration for Charles Darwin. John Edmondstone was from Guiana, 117 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: South America, also the country where Jim Jones and his 118 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: cult relocated the kool Aid genocide. Technically it was flavor Aid, 119 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: that's right. He didn't even pop for the good stuff. No, 120 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: no he didn't because it didn't really matter, not at 121 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: that point. But that's a that's a story for another day. 122 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: A dark turns. This is gonna take some turns. We 123 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: suckered dan'l in here with our previous episode. There was 124 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: a lot of fun and now we're going into some 125 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: disturbing stuff. Are you talking about the one about luxury? Luxury? 126 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: John Edmondstone I was formerly enslaved and then he was manumitted. 127 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: He was a freed slave from Guiana, and he was 128 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: in Edinburgh teaching university students taxidermy. He lived literally down 129 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: the street from where Charles Darwin and Charles his brother 130 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: Erasmus awesome name lived thirty seven Lothian Street right there 131 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: in Edinburgh. And um he learned his trade, John did 132 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: from a man by the name of Charles waterton U, 133 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: who is another assumingly competing naturalist uh to Darwin in 134 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: the eighteen hundreds, early eighteen hundreds, Well, I guess not, 135 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: maybe they Maybe it was a different time. He would 136 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: have would have already attained these skills and then crossed 137 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: paths with Darwin. So forget about my fake beef that 138 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: I just made up between the all British naturalists. Clearly 139 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: they have a Highlander. Yeah, they're very very intense dudes. Um, 140 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:28,119 Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean they kind of just became pals, right, yeah. Yeah. 141 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: So while Darwin is a student at Edinburgh, he approaches 142 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: John Edmondstone and asked him, you know, Mr Edmondstone, will 143 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: you teach me to be a taxidermist. They would enter 144 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: into this teacher student relationship and they would hang out 145 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: and they would have conversation, shoot the breeze, and John 146 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: would tell Charles about the land of South America, about 147 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: the continent, about the tropical rainforest, about Guiana, and historians 148 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: believe that these conversations may have been the spark that 149 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: fan the flames of Charles Darwin's ambitions to explore the tropics. 150 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: I was gonna make a forest fire reference there, but 151 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: I think I think we're already we already got there. Okay, 152 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 1: I was gonna say that fan the flames of the 153 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: forest fire in his mind. I like the alliteration. Yeah, 154 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: we love alliterationous, fan the flames of the forest fire 155 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 1: in his fancy. I don't know of his fancy, of 156 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: his fancy. Okay, we got there, We did so we 157 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: know that regardless of how we want to freeze it. 158 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: The taxidermy skills that Darwin did provably learn from edmond 159 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: Stone were indispensable when he was later traveling famously aboard 160 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: the HMS Beagle in eight thirty one. So let's let's 161 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about this man who has been 162 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: so woefully ignored by, you know, by history, or the 163 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: at least the history would learn in school. He was 164 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: born into slavery in British Guiana in the late seventeen hundreds. 165 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: In his early years, he was on a plantation in 166 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:11,319 Speaker 1: a region in present day Guiana that was called Dimrera. 167 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,559 Speaker 1: That's right. And um, there were a lot of ties 168 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: with Caribbean countries, so Guiana, um was kind of looked 169 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: at as an extension I guess of of the Caribbean. Um. 170 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: A lot of the political and cultural and um ties 171 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: historically to the Caribbean. So um. Charles Edmondstone was a 172 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: Scottish politician. Uh, the original Charles Edmonstone. I guess, let's say, 173 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: who owned this plantation where young John lived and worked. 174 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,559 Speaker 1: And in the early eighteen hundreds, uh, we'll call him 175 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: the elder Charles was visited by a man by the 176 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: name of Charles Waterton who would go on to not 177 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: only become a renowned naturalist, but also the elder edmund 178 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: Stone's son in law. Yeah. Yeah, And while they're interacting 179 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: on this plantation, Charles Waterton takes John Edmond Stone sort 180 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: of as his protege. Right, he becomes a mentor and 181 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: he teaches edmund Stone taxidermy. If you look at the 182 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: contemporary reports, Charles Waterton says, I taught him the proper 183 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: way to stuffed birds. And so John Edmond Stone and 184 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:28,599 Speaker 1: Charles Waterton would patrol walked through the surrounding rainforest and 185 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: they would collect bird specimens. This was really a two 186 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: person job because you know, most birds can fly, and 187 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: as far as we know, most people cannot. I don't 188 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: know why I've made that such a point. It's probably 189 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 1: the lack of sleep. But anyway, that statement is at 190 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: least true. And so they had to They had to 191 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: go find these birds, and they wanted to find new specimens, 192 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: unique specimens. And then they once they caught them, once 193 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: they captured them, killed them. They had to quickly preserve 194 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 1: them because this is the jungle, it's very hot, it's 195 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: so crazy to think of the idea of field taxidermy, right, 196 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: But that's absolutely you had to do because it was 197 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: so human and hot that the bird carcasses would start 198 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: to rot and decompose very very quickly. So what does 199 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: field taxidermy, what do they actually do? Yeah, they had 200 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,319 Speaker 1: to soak the carcasses in this mixture um where the 201 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: primary ingredient was mercury. And then of course they had, 202 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: you know, pull out all their guts and stuff them 203 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: with some stuff. What would be some of the stuff 204 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: they might stuff them with, Ben, I think sawdust was popular. Yeah, 205 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: probably not other birds that you're ducan is a it's 206 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: a different thing. That's an abomination, Ben, I've never had one. 207 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: But yet their primary goal here is to you know, 208 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: soaked them, as you said, that sublimate of mercury and 209 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: preserve the outer shell. They don't really care about the 210 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: stuffing other than what helps it to pure life like. 211 00:12:54,720 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: And during these expeditions, Edmondstone gains a lot of knowledge 212 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: about the bio diversity of South American Guyana in particular. 213 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: But there's an important point we have to hit here. 214 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: You can look back on stories like this and say, oh, 215 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: these people were despite uh, the social hierarchies foisted upon them, 216 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: actual friends. But it's tough to it's it's tough to 217 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,319 Speaker 1: ascribe that to them because we have to remember this 218 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: man was enslaved. He did not have the agency to 219 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: consent or not consent to these expeditions. It wasn't until 220 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: the Slave Trade Act of eighteen o seven that things 221 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: began to change for John Edmondstone. The Slave Trade Act 222 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: of eighteen oh seven this law from the British Empire 223 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: that says the purchase or ownership of slaves is illegal 224 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: within all the lands of the British Empire. Like a 225 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: lot of laws concerning manumission, the law on paper doesn't 226 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: always reflect the law as it should be practiced or 227 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: as it is practiced. So in eighteen o seven Edmonston 228 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: travels to Glasgow with the Scottish politician who owns the 229 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: plantation is namesake Edmondston the Elder, and while he is 230 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: in Scotland he gains his freedom. You'll hear a couple 231 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: of conflicting accounts. Some some folks say there was eighteen 232 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: seventeen when he gains his freedom, so that so he 233 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: was still enslaved for ten years in Scotland, Um, it's interesting. 234 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: But either way, by eighteen seventeen, at the very least, 235 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: he is a freeman finally, and he says, I'm moving 236 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: from Glasgow to Edinburgh, and that's you know. And then 237 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: he begins to live at the address you mentioned earlier, 238 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: thirty seven Lothian Street, and it's just right down the 239 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: street from University of Edinburgh, that's right, and that's where 240 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: he um made the acquaintance of a pint size sixteen 241 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: year old Darwin, who had come to study at Edinburgh 242 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: to study medicine. Um. Like, it was a generational thing 243 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: in his family's father had been a doctor and his 244 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: grandfather and he lived with his brother, as you said, 245 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: the delightfully named Erasmus on Lothian Street, and that was 246 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: just a couple of doors down from John's house. So um, 247 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: it was kind of just serendipitous that these two guys 248 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: kind of became pals. Yeah, And he did hire him 249 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: as a tutor, essentially a taxidermy tutor, because Darwin knew 250 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: pretty quickly that the doctor he was not, he was 251 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: more interested in exploring and adventures. And again he'd already 252 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: been kind of dreaming of some of those places that 253 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: John would kind of really hit him to in South 254 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: America and really make those dreams come alive in his mind. Yes, exactly, 255 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: just so. And in Darwin's defense, we have to realize that, 256 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: you know, even today, a lot of college students, we 257 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: don't really know a percent what we want to do. 258 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: It's a it's very common thing. And then furthermore, during 259 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: surgery in this time, there was no anesthesia. This reminds 260 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: me of the story of Robert Liston. We were a 261 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: little click baity with the title, but it is true 262 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: that he did perform a surgery with a three percent fatality. 263 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: I was gonna obviously don't understand how math works because 264 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: that still is as a head scratcher to me, because 265 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: he hit the guy on the he hit the surgical 266 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: assistant or a bystander, Nick and yeah led out right. Yeah, 267 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: he swung wide on that one. He s white because 268 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: you had to work fast. There was no anesthesia. Anyway, 269 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: Darwin says, this is not the life for me, and 270 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: so he and John Edmondstone make an agreement where Darwin 271 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: will pay John Edmondstone one guinea per lesson and that 272 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: after forty daily hour long sessions his training in taxidermy 273 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: will be considered complete. Uh if we want to inflation, 274 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 1: calculate this to get a sense of the math. Yeah yeah. 275 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: Peepoopoo pee peepoop pepoo, peepoopoop pepoop peepoo doo deepoo ding perfect. 276 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: One guinea or is replaced by the pound in eighteen sixteen. 277 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: But anyway, in eight one guinea was about a hundred 278 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: and sixty U s. Dollars today, right, it's I mean, 279 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: it feels like he is paying for a college course 280 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: at that point for sure. And that was when he 281 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 1: again he started talking about, um, the lush tropical regions 282 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 1: and all of the creatures and the vegetation that populated 283 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 1: it there in South America. Where was it again, dem Arara? Yeah, yeah, 284 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: the plantation, that's right, um. And it really got Darwin 285 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 1: thinking about a career in naturalism. Right. And at this time, 286 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 1: Guiana is making international headlines to not just headlines in 287 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: Darwin's mind. You see, at the time, Guiana has become 288 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: the site of a slave rebellion, and this rebellion was 289 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: ultimately unsuccessful and had been crushed a few months earlier. 290 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: Compounding this, Charles Waterton had published a book about his 291 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 1: expeditions to Guiana, named in a Burst of Creativity Wanderings 292 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: in South America. It's hugely popular. Everybody loves it, and 293 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: Edmond Stone stories, along with Waterton's book, along with the 294 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 1: international headlines about Guiana very plausibly inspired Darwin to explore 295 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 1: to discover more things. And during this winter when they 296 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: are when he's receiving his tax durmy training, he begins 297 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: to think of his teacher, of John Edmond Stone, more 298 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: and more as not just a teacher, but a but 299 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 1: a friend, you know, a mentor. And we have a 300 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:56,880 Speaker 1: letter that Darwin wrote to his sister about the course 301 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: that Edmond Stone taught him and rich He said, it 302 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: has the recommendation of cheapness. If nothing else is the 303 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: only charges one guinea for an hour every day for 304 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: two months. And then they eventually as they become closer. Later, 305 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: Darwin writes about John Edmond Stone in his memoir Memoir, 306 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 1: Memoir and then and in this In this writing, Darwin 307 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: says that Edmund Stone is quote a very pleasant and 308 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: intelligent man. I spent many hours in conversation at his side. 309 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: Of course, you know, we we know that Darwin is 310 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: still trying to resist his father's saying, like you will 311 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: be a doctor. I was a doctor where a family 312 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: of doctors. And that is why in one at the 313 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: age of twenty two, inspired by and educated by John 314 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: Edmond Stone, Darwin gets a place on the HMS Beagle 315 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: as they voyage to chart the South American coastline. And 316 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: he gets he secures this position not as a doctor, 317 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: not as a surgeon, but as a naturalist. Yes, just 318 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: just as he had wished. UM. And all of those 319 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 1: lessons in taxidermy were huge. His ability to do that 320 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: UM in the field so quickly and efficiently were a 321 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: massive help on this voyage UM, and in helping him 322 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: formulate his theory of evolution um and the idea of 323 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: natural selection UM. And he when he was eating tortoises 324 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 1: on the Galapagos Island, there's a really cool story here 325 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 1: from history dot co dot uk UM what's called the 326 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:37,400 Speaker 1: finch story. Right. He saw that there were differences between 327 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: these birds, these finches on the island, and the big 328 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: one had to do with the shape of their beak. UM. 329 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 1: If I may ben, I would like to read some 330 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: intensely triggering descriptions of birds. I was gonna ask you 331 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: I'll go ahead and ask on air, are you sure 332 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,719 Speaker 1: you're okay? It's all right, it's gonna help me. All right. Well, 333 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:58,239 Speaker 1: you're in a safe spot, so let me know. If 334 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: anything goes sideways, want to get through it, we can stop. 335 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: Oh sorry, danal Nolan, Okay, you know about the birthdays. 336 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: Everybody knows about you probably talked about it. Is that, guys, 337 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: I just you know, it's just it's obvious, just from 338 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: from the look on my face when you see a 339 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: pigeon walk by, my eyes light up in horror. Um, 340 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 1: So here we go, here a minute, a minne, make 341 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: this happen. Some of the finches had broad, deep beaks, 342 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,919 Speaker 1: some elongated, and others small and stout. Ben, can you continue? 343 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 1: I can't go on? Yeah, yeah, so I thought you 344 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: did a good job. Thanks man. So Darwin notices, as 345 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:43,120 Speaker 1: we said, specifically that some of the finches have one 346 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: kind of beak and some have other kinds. Some finches 347 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 1: have broad, deep beaks, some have really long beaks, and 348 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 1: some have very small, very tough, stout beaks. And he says, 349 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: you know what I think is happening here. You can 350 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 1: differentiate the finches by their beaks and also by the 351 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:06,360 Speaker 1: islands upon which these finches reside, and each island has 352 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,919 Speaker 1: different sort of stuff for finches to eat, and so 353 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: I believe that over time, advantageous traits that lead to 354 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 1: certain types of beaks become become more common in the 355 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: breeding population. So, if we have a finch population on 356 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: island with lots of seeds, the individual finches that have 357 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: broad beaks that can help them crack open the hard 358 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: coding of seeds will have a better chance of surviving 359 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 1: and reproducing, and then they become more common and ultimately 360 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: they become the only kind of finch on that island. 361 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: It's right, It's like we're talking about with Katie Golden 362 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: on Creature Feature. When we were talking, I had asked 363 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: the very stupid question of you know, why, what was 364 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: the advantage of the woodpecker being able to you know, 365 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: it's it's such a damaging adaptation to the creature to 366 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: like basically essentially gives it brain damage over time. But 367 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,679 Speaker 1: what's the what's the edge and the edges? Obviously the 368 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 1: other creatures can't get those bugs that are in that 369 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 1: tree way up there that he has to dig dairy, 370 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 1: you know, the bird has to dig so deep for 371 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: and you know, to such a personal harm. Uh. And 372 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: there is another influence that Edmund Stone had on Darwin. 373 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: And this this is not completely proven, but it's it's 374 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: something that a lot of historians speculate about. They believe 375 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 1: that it may have been Darwin's personal relationship with John 376 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: Edmond Stone, along with the abolitionist beliefs of his grandfather's 377 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: of course, that contributed to his famous loathing and hatred 378 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: of slavery. And that comes to us via Clifford B. 379 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:52,439 Speaker 1: Frith in his book Charles Darwin's Life with Birds his 380 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 1: Complete Ornithology, which promise you will never have to read. 381 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: Thank you, Ben, thank you for shielding me from the 382 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: horrible bed eid weird talent, gangly, twitchy creatures. All right, 383 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: at this point you're just doing it to yourself. You're 384 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: probably I'm a glad punishment. So so we know that 385 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 1: this personal relationship uh, and his his firsthand experience seeing 386 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 1: the just gross atrocities of slavery had made him very 387 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: much an abolitionist. And then they will also argue that 388 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: his anti slavery beliefs may have may have had a 389 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,400 Speaker 1: relationship to the formation of his theory of natural selection 390 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: because it traces all things that are ostensibly different quote 391 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: unquote races or whatever to a common ancestor. And that 392 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: challenges the popular notion at that time that a certain 393 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: type of person could be somehow considered inferior or superior. Absolutely, 394 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: and he really did see it firsthand with the bloody 395 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: aftermath of some of the slave rebellions in South America. 396 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: And now you know, we we did it again. We 397 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: did the thing that a lot of historians have done, 398 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: which is we started dwelling on Charles Darwin instead of 399 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 1: John Edmondstone. So let's give John Edmondstone is due what 400 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 1: what happened to him? Do we know what happened after 401 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: after the taxidermy lessons were wrapped after Darwin heads off. Well, no, 402 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: And that's sort of the impetus for the story is 403 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: that he was sort of an uncredited influence on Darwin. 404 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 1: And the fact that we know anything about him and 405 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,639 Speaker 1: kind of helps share a story. Um, I think it's 406 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 1: pretty cool. What we do know about him comes directly 407 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: from a very short little blurb in Darwin's own autobiography. 408 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: That's right, it's the it's the moment where he recalls 409 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: the conversations they had, right, and then this sets people 410 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,400 Speaker 1: off on a path to learn more about John Edmondstone. 411 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 1: We know that after his interaction teaching Charles Darwin, he 412 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: stays in Edinburgh. He moves in the eighteen thirties to 413 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 1: areas south St. David Street. And if you look at 414 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: there were some real crackerjack researchers here. If you look 415 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: at the Scottish Industrial and Natural History Museum Register, which 416 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: is later the Royal Scottish Museum, you see that they 417 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: acquired a boa constrictor skin, a fifteen foot boa constrictor 418 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: from a Mr Edmondstone, and that seems likely to be 419 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,679 Speaker 1: John Edmond Stone. And then there are a couple of 420 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: other records relating to him, uh showing that the museum 421 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:49,959 Speaker 1: has purchased different specimens from him. But eventually John Edmondstone 422 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: began to receive his do In two thousand and nine, 423 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: a small plaque was mounted on Lothian Street, really close 424 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: to Edmond Stone's original home in Edinburgh. It commemorates his 425 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 1: years of mentorship, his years as an educator. And you know, 426 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 1: it's it's a small gesture, it's better than nothing, but 427 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,120 Speaker 1: it's at least finally as the University of Texas says, 428 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 1: acknowledging Edmond Stone's influence, as historians continue to make efforts 429 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: to learn more about his life, and here, for now 430 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: our story draws to a close. Or maybe let's let's 431 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: call it a pause, because you know, history is active, 432 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: it's a conversation. People are still learning more stuff about 433 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: John Edmond Stone. And you know, in the coming years 434 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: we might learn even more. And I have to ask. 435 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: I'll be completely upfront and honest here I had not 436 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: heard of John Edmond Stone. Had you, guys, said you? 437 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 1: Daniel never No, I had neither and and unfortunately, um, 438 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,919 Speaker 1: as recently as night, some of the academic writing about 439 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 1: Edmond Stone and his work UM use some pretty racist language. 440 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: Daniella Lee, who's a professor of biology at the University 441 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: of Missouri, once wrote a column from Scientific America where 442 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,120 Speaker 1: she was quoted as saying, the next time I teach 443 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: evolutionary biology, I am definitely including Edmond Stone in my lectures. 444 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: I hope others do as well. Well said, and I 445 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: think it's a sentiment we can all get behind. This 446 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,959 Speaker 1: concludes today's episode, but not our show. We want to 447 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 1: hear from you who are some other figures that you 448 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 1: think mainstream historical discourse has neglected, UH, And who do 449 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: you think has been maybe overblown or presented with some 450 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: sort of sanitized image. I just I just listened to 451 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:45,959 Speaker 1: as we were coming in, I was listening to our 452 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 1: Columbus episode, and I got a quiet let's let's do 453 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: real quick, in the spirit of the daily zeygeists and 454 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: being here in the l A Studios, let's do an 455 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: overrated historical overrated, underrated. I feel like that's every episode. Okay, 456 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: so UM historically underrated. This is this is a hot take, 457 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: But I think the what we call the Black Plague 458 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: or the Black Death has UH, the way it's taught 459 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: to people, it's historically underrated. The statistics, the estimates about 460 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: how many people died UM are terrifying. I think people 461 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: are giving those their full do. But the there's so 462 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: many long term UH effects and consequences ramifications of that 463 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: massive outbreak that those three waves of outbreaks that we 464 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: didn't know, we did not fully understand until recently. Like 465 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: the reason that some people have genetic inborn resistant stage 466 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 1: I V it's because of the Black Plague. That's just 467 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: one example that was well, that was a very thoughtful 468 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: and thoroughly researched answer. I'm going to do a hot 469 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: take overrated Yeah, George Washington, baby who needs oh boy? 470 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: All right, well, let us know what you think, folks. 471 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,239 Speaker 1: You can find us on Facebook. You can find us 472 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: on Twitter, you can find us on Instagram. Just type 473 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History into your uh Internet connection of choice or 474 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: your Internet connection device choice. I don't know, maybe meditate, 475 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: Maybe I'll just come to you. But if you want 476 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: to take a shortcut, you can go to one of 477 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: our favorite places online, our community page Ridiculous Historians on Facebook, 478 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: where you can hang out with our favorite part of 479 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: the show. You and your fellow listeners have a chat 480 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: with Jonathan Strick on the quister. He's there, like most 481 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: of the time, he's probably there right now, lurking um. 482 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: You can also find us individually on social media. You 483 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: can find me on Instagram at how now Noel Brown. 484 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: You can find me on Instagram getting kicked into and 485 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: out of various countries, communities, and organizations at ben Bowling 486 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: in a burst of creativity. You can also find me 487 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: on Twitter. I'm at ben Bowling h s W. Thanks 488 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: as always to our our third Musketeer, super producer Casey 489 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: Pegram Again big thanks to our guests, super producer Daniel Goodman, 490 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: and I like that sound effect from the last episode, 491 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: just treaming a Californication. Do you think we get sued 492 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: for for saying the words californication is a portmanteau. They 493 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: probably can copyright that. Can you get supers saying words? Um? 494 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: Not yet? What even our words anymore? But seriously, Daniel, 495 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: thank you so much for having us and for being 496 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: such an amazing host and super producer. It is truly 497 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 1: my pleasure. This guy I can't even handle it, so 498 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: we have other people to thank. We do. Thank you 499 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: to Alex Williams, who composed our theme. Of course, super 500 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: producer Casey Pegram here in spirit. Christopher Haciota is also 501 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: here in spirit. Jonathan Strickland um here as some sort 502 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 1: of demonic presence um but here none the people but 503 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: here nonetheless, and of course thanks to our research associate 504 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 1: Gabe Louisier. Thank you to John Edmondstone. Uh. And you know, 505 00:31:54,040 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: despite his strange loustatory culinary inclinations, thanks to Charles Darwin. Yeah, 506 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: he seemed like he was okay unless you're at, you know, 507 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: unless you're an animal, if you're ducking, unless you're literally 508 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: in the animal he'd ever discovered. We'll see you next time. Books. 509 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I 510 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 511 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.