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Speaker 1: Film Spotting is presented by Regal Unlimited, the all you

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Speaker 1: can watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in

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Speaker 1: Regal app or at the link in our description and

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Speaker 1: use code film spot twenty six to receive fifteen percent off.

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Speaker 2: What kind of a show you guys putting on here today?

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Speaker 1: You're not interested in art?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 1: No, Look, we're going to do this thing.

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Speaker 2: We're going to have a conversation from Chicago. This is

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Speaker 2: film Spotting. I'm Adam Kempinar.

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Speaker 1: And I'm Josh Larson. You know you are so unsuitable.

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Speaker 2: My Donna Mi Cow comes from a whole line of revolutionaries,

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Speaker 2: and you look so lost. What are you gonna do

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Speaker 2: about this baby?

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Speaker 1: A year ago, it was one of the most anticipated

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Speaker 1: movies of twenty twenty five. Last week it became one

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Speaker 1: of the most Oscar nominated, Paul Thomas Anderson's one Battle

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Speaker 1: after another.

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Speaker 2: Thirteen nominations, including Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actor, and

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Speaker 2: Best send Say. This week, we take another look at

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Speaker 2: PTA's revolution minded epic, plus our reactions to the Oscar nominations.

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Speaker 2: That and more ahead on film Spotting. Say It, Say

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Speaker 2: It Baby, you love you two. Welcome to film Spotting.

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Speaker 2: Last week we recorded Josh a couple of days before

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Speaker 2: the Oscar nominations were announced. By the time people here

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Speaker 2: this week showed the nominations will be over a week old.

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Speaker 2: That doesn't mean we don't have some thoughts. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if we have any hot takes, but we have thoughts.

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Speaker 1: Oh, come on, I've been stewing in my takes Adam

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Speaker 1: to just waiting to share them. So yeah, okay, can't wait,

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Speaker 1: you can't wait.

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Speaker 2: This week we will have those not so timely Oscar

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Speaker 2: nomination reactions. We will also play Massacre Theater. A quick reminder,

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Speaker 2: Film Spotting is now available as a video podcast. If

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Speaker 2: you're a Spotify listener, you can toggle between video and audio.

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Speaker 2: You can also watch the show on YouTube. For a

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Speaker 2: link to video episodes, go to film spotting dot net

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Speaker 2: slash episodes. But first, it is time for another look

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Speaker 2: at one battle after another. I've gotta bitch you, people say,

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Speaker 2: Then I hit it on foot on fun.

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Speaker 1: Here we go. I'm gonna turn a disgastation. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: slow down and you talk and roll. I'll take it

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Speaker 1: from there. I'll bunk on and get ready talking roll. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: you know what freedom is? What no fear? Just like

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Speaker 1: tell me crud. Since it's released last September, Atum One

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Speaker 1: Battle after Another has only become more timely for reasons

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Speaker 1: good and bad. Believe me, I want to talk about

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Speaker 1: the bad. The way Paul Thomas Anderson's contemporary American epic

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Speaker 1: only further echoes the country's current spiraling democratic crisis. But

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Speaker 1: let's start our sacred cow review the soonest reconsideration of

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Speaker 1: an assumed classic in show history, by the way, with

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Speaker 1: a cheerier, more heartening aspect of the movie. In the

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Speaker 1: wake of One Battle's thirteen OSCAR nominations, including Best Picture

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Speaker 1: and both writing and directing nods for Anderson Best Supporting

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Speaker 1: Actress nominee Teana Taylor hosted Saturday Night Live in the movie,

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Speaker 1: Taylor anchors the opening third as revolutionary per Fidia of

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Speaker 1: Beverly Hills. As part of Taylor's hosting stint, SNL aired

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Speaker 1: a fake commercial for toys based on One Battle after Another,

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Speaker 1: including an action figure for Battle Robe Bob Ferguson with

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Speaker 1: light up joint and little homing device.

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Speaker 2: I don't forget about the Pidia Beverly Hills Well snap

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Speaker 2: on pregnant Billity can machine fullowk out hot on their trail.

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Speaker 2: Is the buff weird colonel lock job with realistic arm

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Speaker 2: veins and mobile paternity testing.

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Speaker 1: Kid, you've got to watch this whole thing. We'll link

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Speaker 1: to it in the show notes. Adam. In a week

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Speaker 1: when I was personally spiraling over the government violence being

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Speaker 1: inflicted on Minneapolis, I desperately needed this bit of dark humor,

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Speaker 1: and watching one battle after another again for this discussion,

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Speaker 1: I realized that one element that makes it so miraculous

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Speaker 1: is that it's so damn funny. So let's start there

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Speaker 1: before we go dark. We're gonna need comedy two. After all,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna survive this period in American history on this rewatch, Adam,

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Speaker 1: was there a new moment, maybe a line, a gag,

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Speaker 1: something that made you laugh particularly hard and in the

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Speaker 1: process maybe offered a bit of momentary emotional relief.

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Speaker 2: Wait a second, that was a fake commercial. That's all

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Speaker 2: I have on my Christmas list. Forget my kids, that's

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Speaker 2: my Christmas list.

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Speaker 1: Oh yours? I was gonna say, I need that lucky company,

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Speaker 1: our children.

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Speaker 2: No, not quite, just for just for me. As is true, Josh,

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Speaker 2: with every great movie, but especially I've found with my

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Speaker 2: two favorite filmmakers, Paul Thomas Anderson and the Coen Brothers,

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Speaker 2: everything about it was richer and sharper on rewatch, including

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Speaker 2: the humor. You're absolutely right, So will you indulge me?

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Speaker 2: Can I give you a few before I get to

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Speaker 2: my clear number one?

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Speaker 1: I'll give you. I'll give you three, four because I

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Speaker 1: have three? Okay, perfect, because that's exactly how many.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly how many.

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Speaker 1: I have a couple quick.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how this wasn't more memorable the first time.

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Speaker 2: And you know, apologies for the harsh language here, but

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Speaker 2: I have to commit to the bit. If I ever

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Speaker 2: feel like here on the show you're being a little

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Speaker 2: nitpicking prick, I'm going to point out how ridiculou the

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Speaker 2: name Comrade Josh is. You can't be a revolutionary with

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Speaker 2: the name Comrad Josh. And if you persist, I'm calling

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Speaker 2: in a Greyhawk ten, which I guess means getting Sam

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Speaker 2: on the phone. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's right. Consult the codebook. But you know,

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Speaker 1: someone a film spotting family member. I think was on

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Speaker 1: this when the movie first came out, because I believe

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Speaker 1: in our discord I was called out as comrade Josh

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Speaker 1: in It's in September, and now, of all I know

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Speaker 1: to say, I take a little exception to this because

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Speaker 1: of the two of us, Adam, Let's be honest, who

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Speaker 1: would be now I have this instinct. I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: I'm completely completely unlike this, but who would be the

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Speaker 1: nitpick you won between the two of us if it

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Speaker 1: came down to a nitpick battle?

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Speaker 2: I suppose, But just between our names, Josh sounds less

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Speaker 2: revolutionary than even Adam. So I'm going with pta as

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Speaker 2: a s writer. There the entire scene where Bob threatens

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Speaker 2: Will's friend Bludo.

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Speaker 1: What's up, guys, Guys cool, guys hanging yep, going to

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Speaker 1: the dance. Yeah, that's cool.

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Speaker 2: I tell you somewhere, I'm doing that exact same thing

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Speaker 2: to your entire family. And what I'm just telling you,

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Speaker 2: we're talking about freedom, baby, We're talking about freedom. Freedom

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Speaker 2: is a funny thing, isn't it. When you have it,

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Speaker 2: you don't appreciate it, and when you miss it, it's gone.

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Speaker 2: It's just gone. Love it it's it's very likely that

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Speaker 2: in the twenty plus year history of this show, Jennifer

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Speaker 2: Vendetti is the first casting director to have ever been

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Speaker 2: mentioned by name. That was me by me during our

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Speaker 2: Marty Supreme review. Now she's the first casting director to

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Speaker 2: be mentioned by name twice because she's nominated for the

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Speaker 2: first ever Academy Award for Best Casting. And I can't

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Speaker 2: imagine the Oscar going to anyone else. I don't know

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Speaker 2: what the odds are. I can't imagine the Oscar going

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Speaker 2: to anyone else. But if it had to go to

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Speaker 2: someone else, I'd give it to Cassandra Kula Kundis for

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Speaker 2: casting people like John hugen Acker, who plays Tim Smith,

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Speaker 2: the Christmas Adventurer. And let's just say, this is the

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Speaker 2: second time we've seen and reviewed the movie. It's been

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Speaker 2: out for almost a year. We are going to spoil

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Speaker 2: the movie. If you haven't seen it yet, don't don't

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Speaker 2: listen past this point. Okay, he's the Christmas Adventurer who

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Speaker 2: is sent to clean up the mess that Sean Penn's

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Speaker 2: Colonel Lockjaw has made. And when he's being briefed on

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Speaker 2: that mess, I think I don't know his name's Bob

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Speaker 2: or something the guy do is right, he says. He says,

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Speaker 2: next thing we know, Colonel Lockjaw's mobile his task force

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Speaker 2: into bagdun Cross and conducted a class A raid on

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Speaker 2: the Chicken Licken Frozen Food Farm. And the way the

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Speaker 2: way Huganaker says, Oh no, I love their nuggets, Josh.

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Speaker 2: The degree of difficulty on that line to not overemphasize

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Speaker 2: any syllable to not play it is if Tim Smith,

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Speaker 2: the character believes he's funny. I think it's like a

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Speaker 2: nine point eight after a few small beers. I think

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Speaker 2: it might be the best line delivery in the entire movie.

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Speaker 2: That line this time absolutely slayed me.

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Speaker 1: That entire sequence, and almost every line delivery, and the

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Speaker 1: choice of word usage is it's like I've been adjacent.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a white guy, so I've been adjacent

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Speaker 1: to meetings like that, but I couldn't quite place what

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Speaker 1: meetings they were. Yeah, they're certainly not Christmas Adventurer meetings,

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Speaker 1: but you know, there is this sort of benign, bland

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Speaker 1: business speak that they're adopting there that is strangely familiar.

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Speaker 1: But I don't entirely know the language. And every line

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Speaker 1: hits in a funny way.

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Speaker 2: Because of that, we almost both look like we're dressed

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Speaker 2: for a Christmas Adventurers meeting as we're recording. Actually, I

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Speaker 2: know cozy so here It is though truly the most

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Speaker 2: amusing for me this time, and I liked it the

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Speaker 2: first time too, and its inclusion in the SNL commercial,

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Speaker 2: I think is one indicator of how memorable it really is.

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Speaker 2: When Sense closes the trap door oh okay, and the rug,

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Speaker 2: the rug falls into place over the top of it,

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Speaker 2: it's it's not only ingenius on PTA's part to come

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Speaker 2: up with it, but it's the perfect kicker to that

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Speaker 2: incredible Latino Harriet Tubman sequence. The final touch just reinforces

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Speaker 2: the extent to which he has so calmly accounted for everything.

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Speaker 2: Every rug, the rug even somehow falls laconically like Sense

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Speaker 2: moves and speaks. There's a rhythm to it. There's just

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Speaker 2: an order amidst all the chaos that Sensey and the

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Speaker 2: rug provide. And and in terms of humor, it's the

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Speaker 2: kind of gag actually that feels more appropriate in the

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Speaker 2: jail escape sequence in a film by another Anderson. I

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Speaker 2: was just thinking that for sure, Wes's Grand Budapest hotel.

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Speaker 2: That's how silly it is. I adore it. And to

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Speaker 2: say I adore this movie would be an understatement. It's

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Speaker 2: it's incredible it is.

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Speaker 1: And yeah I thought that too about Wes Anderson and

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Speaker 1: almost one of his stop motion you could see that bit.

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Speaker 2: Bea how I was emotioning it. Gosh, I was.

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Speaker 1: Exactly Yes, yeah, all right, so here's here's my three

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Speaker 1: and you stole my thunder on my actual pick a

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Speaker 1: little bit, but I'm gonna talk about it anyway. First off,

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Speaker 1: you know, I still got such a kick out of it.

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Speaker 1: You know, I love Willi's lyne to lockjaw about the

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Speaker 1: tight shirt. Yes, I loved hearing that again. The other

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Speaker 1: one though, that came that hit me, I think because

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Speaker 1: I saw it coming or knew it was coming, and

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Speaker 1: so it was less shocking and funnier. I like to

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Speaker 1: talk about editing as a crucial tool in comedy filmmaking.

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Speaker 1: How about the smash cut to a pregnant Perfidia huge

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Speaker 1: belly exposed. The SNL video included this too, firing that

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Speaker 1: machine gun, yes, and the shooting range her action figure

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Speaker 1: strap on pregnant belly. I just burst out laughing at

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Speaker 1: that because again. The first time, I was like, what

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Speaker 1: is happening right now? And this time we get a

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Speaker 1: cut from her walking away from the hotel meeting with Lockjaw,

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Speaker 1: and she's walking I think in the parking lot we're

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Speaker 1: hearing soldier Boy. We get a cut to Bob sitting

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Speaker 1: in a camping chair, and then we cut hard to

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Speaker 1: her with the gun, and it's just the precision of

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Speaker 1: that movement towards the and sanity that struck me as

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Speaker 1: so funny this time. But my pick is Blueto. I

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Speaker 1: got to give some more time to Blueto. Here. The

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Speaker 1: kid playing Blueto, Willis's high school friend is Carlos McFarland,

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Speaker 1: and you highlighted DiCaprio, which, yes, he's great in that scene.

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Speaker 1: This kid is a gem. His deadpan non reactions to

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Speaker 1: everything Bob is throwing at him, and I think the

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Speaker 1: way he describes it to Willow when they get in

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Speaker 1: the car, your dad is yeah, yeah, this kid is

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Speaker 1: not ruffled, like it's just just it rolls off him

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Speaker 1: and when he gets in the car, that's all he

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Speaker 1: says about it. Yeah, but this is also picked up Bluto.

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Speaker 1: Carlos McFarlane gets another great scene after they've invaded the dance,

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Speaker 1: the high school dance, lockjaws whatever they are goons, you know.

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Speaker 1: Here Blueto is being interrogated by the military guy, and

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Speaker 1: I forget what leads to the exchange. But the military guy,

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Speaker 1: real real gruff, says, do.

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Speaker 2: I look like I think his name is he? Do

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Speaker 2: I look like your parent?

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Speaker 1: Kind of?

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Speaker 2: Kind of?

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Speaker 1: It's just like, you know, right, you delivered. I mean,

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Speaker 1: talk about the casting coup. From what I can tell

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Speaker 1: on IMDb, McFarland. You know, it's I don't know if

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Speaker 1: he's non professional, but it's least at least it's his

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Speaker 1: first credit. So just perfect, just perfect as Blueta, who

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Speaker 1: I couldn't get enough of on this rewatch. But I'm

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Speaker 1: with you overall, Adam like Richard film, No Surprise, Richer film,

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Speaker 1: And I think you know we talked about I think

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Speaker 1: we focused mainly mainly on the political significance and the

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Speaker 1: timeliness in our first review, and I do want to

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Speaker 1: spend more time on that. But I did wonder in

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Speaker 1: the back of my head, am I over praising it

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Speaker 1: for that quality? And is this one that might seem,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe that it's its greatest quality and perhaps

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Speaker 1: it is, but I don't think it comes at the

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Speaker 1: expense of all the other things we've come to back

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Speaker 1: from Paul Thomas Anderson film, which is breva filmmaking technique,

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Speaker 1: you know, the editing, the music, all these things, the cinematography,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, just the sense of a sustained maybe, in

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Speaker 1: light of our discussion of Boogie Nights in particular, which

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Speaker 1: was our bonus episode for a film spouting family members recently,

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Speaker 1: the sustained rhythm and pacing and sequencing of specific sections

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Speaker 1: of this film, and maybe we can talk about in

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Speaker 1: this context the entire Latino Harriet Tubman sequence that you

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Speaker 1: were talking about with your comedy pick, because I timed

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Speaker 1: it this time, Adam, out of curiosity. And it's interesting

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Speaker 1: that you mark the pulling the rug over the trap

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Speaker 1: door as the end point, because I agree, essentially that's it,

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Speaker 1: because Sergio is out of the scene at that point. Right,

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Speaker 1: it's six minutes from the shot of Sergio at his

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Speaker 1: desk in the storefront until he pulls the rug over

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Speaker 1: the trap door, and you think of everything that happens

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Speaker 1: in those six minutes. It's nineteen minutes from that shot

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Speaker 1: of Sergio at his desk to Bob being tasted, which

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Speaker 1: feels rhythmically all the of the same piece, but as

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Speaker 1: far as Sergio is concerned, it's less. So Anyways, yes,

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Speaker 1: those were justing interesting time markers. Here's what I want

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Speaker 1: to say about that entire sequence. However, you count it

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Speaker 1: a master work of balancing two narratives in our interest

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Speaker 1: in each narrative equally at the same time, because we

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Speaker 1: have Bob attempting to power up his phone, and the

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Speaker 1: emotional hook to that is because he's trying to get

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Speaker 1: connected to find out where Willa is right. And then

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Speaker 1: we have Sergio setting his underground railroad into action, and

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Speaker 1: that is, you know, we've come to learn going to

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Speaker 1: save the lives of how many people? So we're equally

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Speaker 1: invested in each of these narratives, and Anderson and keeps

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Speaker 1: us that way primarily by using not long single takes,

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Speaker 1: but sustained takes where the camera will drift from Bob

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Speaker 1: to Sergio within a space and always remind us that

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Speaker 1: while this is happening, don't forget that this is happening

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Speaker 1: as well. And the blocking comes in here right where

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Speaker 1: suddenly Sergio will comment on something Bob is trying to

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Speaker 1: do and then he'll step away and just you know

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Speaker 1: how he has managed to sustain it. Not it would

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Speaker 1: be impressive if it was like a two minute sequence,

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Speaker 1: but for it to be at the very least six

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Speaker 1: minutes is just an astonishing feed of filmmaking. That's a

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Speaker 1: mini drama within this, you know what, almost three hour

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Speaker 1: major drama.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you said it. The investment on our part as viewers,

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Speaker 2: the stakes are so high in both cases. Obviously we're

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Speaker 2: more invested as viewers, at least initially in Bob's story

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Speaker 2: because that's the story we're following. And we know that

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Speaker 2: if he doesn't figure this out, if he does and

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Speaker 2: get the location of the rendezvous point, he may not

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Speaker 2: ever find his daughter. That that is what he is

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Speaker 2: trying to figure out here. That's everything. But also we

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Speaker 2: understand the scale of what Sense is doing here, all

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Speaker 2: of those people, all of those people that we see

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Speaker 2: coming through that location that he has been providing sanctuary too,

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Speaker 2: and we also want them to get to safety. And

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Speaker 2: so we are as viewers juggling both of those, As

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Speaker 2: you said, Paul Thomas Anderson, as a filmmaker is juggling

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Speaker 2: both of those those narratives. If you will, and the

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Speaker 2: way the rhythm to go back to that word, the

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Speaker 2: way he manages to go at the pace of Sense is.

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Speaker 2: I think what's so remarkable because the camera moves at

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Speaker 2: that exact pace as harried as Bob is, and he

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Speaker 2: is freaking out the entire time. We feel comfortable because

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Speaker 2: we're moving the way Sense is moving.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a great point to it. And I

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Speaker 1: think the restrained use of editing and cuts is part

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Speaker 1: of that too, right, because because Sense would not he

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Speaker 1: would not do any MTV style cutting, right, he would

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Speaker 1: be more He's more of a single tape guy.

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Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, so there are so many directions we could go,

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Speaker 2: but in terms of what was richer and sharper, I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna go here, Josh, because I wonder if you had

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Speaker 2: a similar reaction or not. It goes for every performance

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Speaker 2: for me, including all the performances that I already loved.

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Speaker 2: And I know we're going to discuss Teyana Taylor and

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Speaker 2: Perfidia Beverly Hills. I should say the character certainly some more.

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Speaker 2: I think it's fair to say that by design there's

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Speaker 2: a thinness to that character. Taana Taylor suffuses her with

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Speaker 2: significant depth that I noticed even more this time, But

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Speaker 2: josh it it did for me also include Sean Penn's performance.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, like Daniel day Lewis and and there will

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Speaker 2: be blood. Seeing it a second time helped me get

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Speaker 2: a little bit more on the same wavelink with that character.

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Speaker 2: And his acting style isn't the same as everyone else's

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Speaker 2: in the movie. And maybe we should note here, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: there's there's a cartoonish element to Lockjaw, and his name

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Speaker 2: is Lockjaw. And as I said the first time we

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Speaker 2: reviewed it, there's a very clear to me strange lo

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Speaker 2: v in connection between Lockjaw and Jack t Ripper, So

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Speaker 2: we can we can see his character in this more

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Speaker 2: satirical realm. Maybe we could and should forgive I suppose

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Speaker 2: the ex and of the performance then, But I didn't

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Speaker 2: need to work very hard this time to forgive those eccentricities.

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Speaker 2: The nervous little boy and the very insecure little man

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Speaker 2: wearing the two tight shirt. They were fully on display.

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Speaker 2: And what I mean there is the person. The actual

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Speaker 2: person was on display to me this time, and Penn

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Speaker 2: does just as much, expressing with subtle shifts of his face,

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Speaker 2: and does just as much in the quiet moments with

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Speaker 2: that character, as he does in any larger bursts. Take

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Speaker 2: the scene near the end, that great scene near the

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Speaker 2: end with him and Chase Infinity, who is of course

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Speaker 2: also remarkable in this film. When the DNA test results

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Speaker 2: come up, you see him go from with just really

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Speaker 2: a tilt of his head. You see him go from

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Speaker 2: pure age to a switch being flipped, where Charlene is

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Speaker 2: now just something to be disposed of. It's almost now

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Speaker 2: a mechanical sort of look on his face. He's gone

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Speaker 2: into kind of machine mode. And it's not surprising to

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Speaker 2: say that Sean Penn is a pretty good actor, and

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Speaker 2: you see his full talents. I actually do think I

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Speaker 2: see it much more now on display in that Lock

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Speaker 2: Jaw performance. I didn't fully appreciate it the first time around.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's se yeah, let's talk about Lockjaw. And

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Speaker 1: my comments are less about the performance, which I think

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Speaker 1: I felt about the same on this time, and did

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Speaker 1: wonder if we needed quite as much of Lockjaw. I

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Speaker 1: think I'm still there, But I think everything you said

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Speaker 1: about the performance itself is apt. I'm fascinating, Adham that

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Speaker 1: you use the phrase little boy, because here's where my

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Speaker 1: mind went watching this character and you know, this military

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Speaker 1: grade force he brings rolling into a peaceful talent for

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Speaker 1: his own purposes. I couldn't separate it from this cartoonish

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Speaker 1: little bowl. Gregory Bavino, I couldn't. We've been watching and

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Speaker 1: you know, it first came on the scene, I think

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Speaker 1: in La last summer, came to Chicago, and you know

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Speaker 1: now has been in Minneapolis. So their reports he's he's

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Speaker 1: being demoted or something like that. I mean, great, it's

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Speaker 1: you know, we need a lot more than that. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: I'm watching Lockjaw and he's almost a one for one

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Speaker 1: for this guy leading these federal goons attacking our cities.

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Speaker 1: And it's the false bravado that Penn captures. It's the

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Speaker 1: moral hypocrisy. It's kind of shocking that it's this one

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Speaker 1: to one because the movie was well in the can

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Speaker 1: before Bevino came on the scene, right, And I think

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Speaker 1: what that speaks to is that Penn's performance and the

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Speaker 1: envisioning of this character is capturing a type, and by

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Speaker 1: it by a type, I don't want to I don't

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Speaker 1: want to diminish the type's humanity. And maybe I should

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Speaker 1: say it's a it's a mental state, and it triggered

390
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Speaker 1: thinking this way, and watching the movie triggered for me

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Speaker 1: a memory from childhood that was very revealing about what

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Speaker 1: we're going through, Adam. So bear with me if I

393
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Speaker 1: can tell you a little story about Josh growing up

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Speaker 1: in Crestwood, South Suburbs, Southwest suburbs of Chicago. But grew

395
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Speaker 1: up in a neighborhood full of boys. We'd run around

396
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Speaker 1: in a pack, we'd play Star Wars, we'd play Indiana Jones.

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Speaker 1: This has come up on the show right I think

398
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Speaker 1: you know you can recall doing something similar with your

399
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Speaker 1: beloved movies. More applicable here G I Joe. I don't

400
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Speaker 1: know if G I Joe was part of your childhood,

401
00:24:59,685 --> 00:25:06,285
Speaker 1: but this was cartoon television series right action figures. Obviously

402
00:25:06,365 --> 00:25:09,525
Speaker 1: you can guess from the name all military, so all

403
00:25:09,565 --> 00:25:13,445
Speaker 1: military themed. Loved it, loved it, you know, maybe not

404
00:25:13,485 --> 00:25:15,605
Speaker 1: as much as Star Wars or India Jones, but just

405
00:25:15,725 --> 00:25:17,485
Speaker 1: was really into that stuff. So me and my friends

406
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Speaker 1: we needed guns to play G I Joe. Often we

407
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Speaker 1: had to make do with stick. At some point. I

408
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Speaker 1: don't know how this happened, knowing my parents, I must

409
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Speaker 1: have pestered them enough. They got me a bb gun. Okay,

410
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Speaker 1: dream for a kid who loved g I jail, Yes,

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Speaker 1: and I think I was the only kid in the

412
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Speaker 1: neighborhood who had it, so it made me extra cool. Okay,

413
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Speaker 1: paper targets come with the gun. Sure, that's great. For

414
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Speaker 1: a while, wasn't too long. We turned to squirrels. We

415
00:25:43,925 --> 00:25:47,965
Speaker 1: turned to birds. That got boring. We dare each other

416
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Speaker 1: to shoot at the windows of the nursing home behind

417
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Speaker 1: my house where I grew up. That led to a

418
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Speaker 1: broken window, complaints from the nursing home, and lies to

419
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Speaker 1: our parents that we were involved at all. I couldn't.

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Speaker 1: I was the only kid in the neighborhood the babe gun.

421
00:26:03,805 --> 00:26:06,405
Speaker 1: But it couldn't have been me, right, just blatant lies

422
00:26:06,845 --> 00:26:10,125
Speaker 1: about what you did. So these memories are coming back,

423
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Speaker 1: and this is all sounding so familiar to what we're

424
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Speaker 1: watching now. Obviously this is a very small scale to

425
00:26:16,845 --> 00:26:20,925
Speaker 1: what is happening, but it's similar in terms of mental

426
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Speaker 1: You know, it's overarmed silly goons, wrecking lethal havoc and

427
00:26:27,845 --> 00:26:31,085
Speaker 1: then running away when things get serious. The thing that

428
00:26:31,285 --> 00:26:35,045
Speaker 1: enraged me the most about this latest video is as

429
00:26:35,125 --> 00:26:39,285
Speaker 1: soon as they kill someone, just run like scared little boys. Right,

430
00:26:40,165 --> 00:26:44,525
Speaker 1: These are boys with BB guns looking for squirrels and

431
00:26:44,605 --> 00:26:48,205
Speaker 1: birds to shoot, and the federal government has given them

432
00:26:48,245 --> 00:26:51,685
Speaker 1: free reign to indulge their Gi Joe fantasies. It is

433
00:26:51,805 --> 00:26:58,205
Speaker 1: no wonder people are dying. I get, I understand the mentality.

434
00:26:58,285 --> 00:27:02,005
Speaker 1: You just would hope that some sort of maturity would

435
00:27:02,005 --> 00:27:05,205
Speaker 1: occur at a certain point, but that's not what we're seeing.

436
00:27:05,285 --> 00:27:08,565
Speaker 1: And I do think the portrayal of Lockjaw in one

437
00:27:08,645 --> 00:27:11,045
Speaker 1: Battle is related to all of this. You look at

438
00:27:11,125 --> 00:27:14,805
Speaker 1: him as you described him, Adam, He's indulging his own fantasies.

439
00:27:15,285 --> 00:27:18,405
Speaker 1: This is part of the relationship with Perfidia, right. The

440
00:27:18,485 --> 00:27:25,045
Speaker 1: hypocrisy involved there, I mean moral hypocrisy far grander scale

441
00:27:25,565 --> 00:27:29,245
Speaker 1: in his commitment to his supposed mission. You know, he's

442
00:27:29,285 --> 00:27:31,765
Speaker 1: he's acting like he has this pure mission and the

443
00:27:31,845 --> 00:27:35,285
Speaker 1: hypocrisy behind that is just maddening. So yeah, he is

444
00:27:35,405 --> 00:27:39,205
Speaker 1: Lockjaw is just another this emotionally morally immature boy who's

445
00:27:39,205 --> 00:27:42,565
Speaker 1: been given an enormous gun. And that's why the other

446
00:27:42,725 --> 00:27:48,045
Speaker 1: term you used, cartoonish, I think is apt. I think

447
00:27:48,045 --> 00:27:53,405
Speaker 1: it's also revealing that the SNL Skit Boss quote realistic

448
00:27:53,565 --> 00:27:55,525
Speaker 1: arm veins. Did you catch that?

449
00:27:56,045 --> 00:27:56,325
Speaker 2: Yes?

450
00:27:56,365 --> 00:27:58,845
Speaker 1: That that I mean, it's just it's all part of this.

451
00:27:58,965 --> 00:28:01,605
Speaker 1: So Lockjaw is no more cartoonish than Bevino or any

452
00:28:01,605 --> 00:28:06,005
Speaker 1: of these other terrorizing goons, and it's part of the

453
00:28:06,045 --> 00:28:09,685
Speaker 1: topicality of one battle after another. But I think it's also,

454
00:28:09,765 --> 00:28:12,925
Speaker 1: as you were saying, part of what is crucial two

455
00:28:12,965 --> 00:28:14,485
Speaker 1: pens very good performance.

456
00:28:15,045 --> 00:28:20,085
Speaker 2: Yeah, So what's interesting to me is that what we're

457
00:28:20,085 --> 00:28:23,165
Speaker 2: seeing in what you're described is the people who are

458
00:28:23,205 --> 00:28:29,085
Speaker 2: getting the pain inflicted upon them. That's the point. They're

459
00:28:29,125 --> 00:28:33,285
Speaker 2: the targets and the pain is the point. And everything

460
00:28:33,325 --> 00:28:38,605
Speaker 2: you're saying is accurate and applicable. Except what I do

461
00:28:38,645 --> 00:28:42,805
Speaker 2: find very fascinating about the Lockshaw character is I don't

462
00:28:42,805 --> 00:28:46,485
Speaker 2: think he cares at all really about what he's doing,

463
00:28:46,685 --> 00:28:49,005
Speaker 2: especially here. What we see really in the second half

464
00:28:49,045 --> 00:28:51,645
Speaker 2: of the film is it's all a pretense to his

465
00:28:51,725 --> 00:28:54,725
Speaker 2: own This is where to me, Josh, it's really the

466
00:28:54,725 --> 00:28:58,245
Speaker 2: most applicable to our current situation, is it's all just

467
00:28:58,285 --> 00:29:02,445
Speaker 2: about his own self fulfillment. It's all just self aggrandizing.

468
00:29:03,085 --> 00:29:06,125
Speaker 2: It's just a means to an end, and the end

469
00:29:06,485 --> 00:29:12,005
Speaker 2: is getting the position that he desires, and the recognition

470
00:29:12,125 --> 00:29:16,485
Speaker 2: that he desires, and the feeling what he knows to

471
00:29:16,525 --> 00:29:21,245
Speaker 2: be true, which is that he's a superior being. That's

472
00:29:21,325 --> 00:29:23,845
Speaker 2: what it's ultimately all about. So there was there was

473
00:29:23,965 --> 00:29:26,365
Speaker 2: relevance the first time we saw this movie, of course,

474
00:29:26,645 --> 00:29:30,965
Speaker 2: when it opens on an immigration detention center, right, And

475
00:29:30,965 --> 00:29:33,485
Speaker 2: and we still feel that very much now as we

476
00:29:33,525 --> 00:29:36,965
Speaker 2: see people in cages, and we watch these people walking

477
00:29:37,045 --> 00:29:40,525
Speaker 2: by them in those cages without batting an eyelash, as

478
00:29:40,525 --> 00:29:44,325
Speaker 2: if that's somehow normal. That's just that's just the normal

479
00:29:44,605 --> 00:29:47,645
Speaker 2: order of things. But what struck me Josh this time

480
00:29:48,525 --> 00:29:50,965
Speaker 2: is a line I didn't remember from the first viewing.

481
00:29:51,685 --> 00:29:55,725
Speaker 2: Is when he finds out that they're backed and cross,

482
00:29:56,365 --> 00:29:59,685
Speaker 2: what does he say? He says, make me a reason

483
00:29:59,805 --> 00:30:04,165
Speaker 2: to deploy in that town. Okay, so we all know,

484
00:30:04,805 --> 00:30:08,765
Speaker 2: we all know that what's happening in Minneapolis is completely illegitimate,

485
00:30:08,845 --> 00:30:10,725
Speaker 2: and look, there are reasons.

486
00:30:10,405 --> 00:30:12,605
Speaker 1: Part of hypocrisy exactly.

487
00:30:12,645 --> 00:30:17,205
Speaker 2: I mean, we actually do need immigration control and immigration policy,

488
00:30:17,325 --> 00:30:20,005
Speaker 2: so it's not like that that's all folly, right, But

489
00:30:20,045 --> 00:30:24,085
Speaker 2: what's happening in many Apolis we all know is illegitimate.

490
00:30:24,445 --> 00:30:28,045
Speaker 2: We all know it's completely personally and politically motivated, right,

491
00:30:28,565 --> 00:30:33,285
Speaker 2: and and that's exactly what Lockjaw is doing. Give me

492
00:30:33,365 --> 00:30:37,645
Speaker 2: a reason, give me any pretense to deploy in that town.

493
00:30:37,885 --> 00:30:40,565
Speaker 2: And that's that's what he gets. And so then that

494
00:30:40,565 --> 00:30:43,245
Speaker 2: that dovetails with the other part here with the Christmas

495
00:30:43,285 --> 00:30:46,365
Speaker 2: Adventures that I thought was so interesting, is you want

496
00:30:46,405 --> 00:30:49,725
Speaker 2: to talk about the line that actually is maybe truly

497
00:30:49,805 --> 00:30:52,445
Speaker 2: the funniest line in the film. What really should be

498
00:30:52,525 --> 00:30:57,085
Speaker 2: the biggest howler in the movie is I think it

499
00:30:57,165 --> 00:31:01,565
Speaker 2: is during that first that first meeting with Lockjaw when

500
00:31:01,565 --> 00:31:05,685
Speaker 2: they're recruiting him, and it's it's Tony Goldwyn and he

501
00:31:05,765 --> 00:31:11,125
Speaker 2: says completely with a straight face, he says that being

502
00:31:11,205 --> 00:31:14,605
Speaker 2: part of this club, he says, it doesn't mean that

503
00:31:14,685 --> 00:31:19,125
Speaker 2: you are the best, the most intelligent, the most sophisticated,

504
00:31:19,605 --> 00:31:25,525
Speaker 2: or the wisest. It just means you're superior. So who

505
00:31:25,525 --> 00:31:28,725
Speaker 2: does that feel like? That describes Josh, Like, think about that,

506
00:31:29,085 --> 00:31:32,845
Speaker 2: You're not the best at anything. Actually you're You're not

507
00:31:32,965 --> 00:31:37,285
Speaker 2: the smartest, you're not the most sophisticated. There's nothing about

508
00:31:37,325 --> 00:31:42,565
Speaker 2: you or anything you do that makes you superior to

509
00:31:42,605 --> 00:31:47,565
Speaker 2: anyone or gives you any advantage over anyone else. Yet

510
00:31:47,605 --> 00:31:52,045
Speaker 2: you know, you know, in your heart, that you're better

511
00:31:52,085 --> 00:31:56,365
Speaker 2: than everyone else, that you are superior to everyone else,

512
00:31:56,405 --> 00:32:02,125
Speaker 2: and everything that you do is justified because it's an

513
00:32:02,125 --> 00:32:07,965
Speaker 2: extension of that belief and you believe it fully and emphatically.

514
00:32:08,245 --> 00:32:13,085
Speaker 2: Sounds like to me everybody in authority who's making decisions

515
00:32:13,725 --> 00:32:18,445
Speaker 2: right now. And let's also be clear, right, what is

516
00:32:19,125 --> 00:32:24,125
Speaker 2: the driving factor behind the Christmas Adventurers. Is what is

517
00:32:24,245 --> 00:32:30,245
Speaker 2: driving that feeling of superiority? It is skin color. And yeah,

518
00:32:30,405 --> 00:32:35,125
Speaker 2: that also applies to what we are talking about with

519
00:32:35,165 --> 00:32:40,045
Speaker 2: what we're seeing in our country. And there is a

520
00:32:40,045 --> 00:32:42,925
Speaker 2: connection here to another funny moment that is something I

521
00:32:42,965 --> 00:32:45,405
Speaker 2: didn't catch the first time I saw this movie. Did

522
00:32:45,405 --> 00:32:51,445
Speaker 2: you notice when Lockjaw gets rewarded with an award for

523
00:32:51,845 --> 00:32:56,205
Speaker 2: taking down the French seventy five? Did you catch, Josh,

524
00:32:56,405 --> 00:33:00,645
Speaker 2: what the name of the award is? No? This time

525
00:33:00,685 --> 00:33:02,645
Speaker 2: I caught it. I said, wait a second, and I

526
00:33:02,765 --> 00:33:06,005
Speaker 2: rewound it just to make sure. And sure enough he's

527
00:33:06,045 --> 00:33:11,845
Speaker 2: awarded the Bedford Forest Medal of Honor Bedford Forest, as

528
00:33:11,885 --> 00:33:16,405
Speaker 2: in Nathan Bedford Forest, the first Grand Wizard of the

529
00:33:16,445 --> 00:33:18,085
Speaker 2: Ku Klux klan Ah.

530
00:33:18,165 --> 00:33:22,405
Speaker 1: An accident, not an ot Okay, Yeah, and you're coming

531
00:33:22,765 --> 00:33:26,325
Speaker 1: the Superior conversation is it's so funny. Tony Goldwyn is

532
00:33:26,365 --> 00:33:30,885
Speaker 1: just pitch perfect there. But also the point about Superior

533
00:33:31,245 --> 00:33:34,045
Speaker 1: is that all he wants to know is that someone

534
00:33:34,125 --> 00:33:37,085
Speaker 1: is beneath him. It to your point, it doesn't matter

535
00:33:37,125 --> 00:33:39,925
Speaker 1: that he's the best. The important thing is that there's

536
00:33:39,925 --> 00:33:43,965
Speaker 1: someone under him. And so this relates to the subjugation idea,

537
00:33:43,965 --> 00:33:50,165
Speaker 1: and it's less about your excellence than someone else's being dominated.

538
00:33:50,205 --> 00:33:50,725
Speaker 2: Oppression.

539
00:33:50,965 --> 00:33:52,685
Speaker 1: Yeah, someone else's oppression.

540
00:33:55,525 --> 00:33:58,845
Speaker 2: As I spy what's out now or coming soon to

541
00:33:58,925 --> 00:34:01,565
Speaker 2: a regal cinema, Josh, I know you're gonna mention this.

542
00:34:02,045 --> 00:34:05,925
Speaker 2: Arco the animated film is one I'm very curious about. Also,

543
00:34:06,085 --> 00:34:09,285
Speaker 2: really would like to see the new Sam Raimi film

544
00:34:09,765 --> 00:34:11,844
Speaker 2: if we could, it'd be good to make some time

545
00:34:11,885 --> 00:34:13,725
Speaker 2: for it here on the show. Don't know that that's

546
00:34:13,805 --> 00:34:17,165
Speaker 2: going to happen, but Rachel McAdams starring in that one

547
00:34:17,285 --> 00:34:21,444
Speaker 2: Send Help Wuthering Heights didn't come up, Josh on our

548
00:34:21,885 --> 00:34:24,564
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six preview, But I know we're both very

549
00:34:24,645 --> 00:34:30,125
Speaker 2: curious about that. Emerald Fanelle film starring Jacob Alordi, Oscar

550
00:34:30,205 --> 00:34:33,964
Speaker 2: nominated Jacob Alordi and Margo Robbie that is coming soon

551
00:34:34,445 --> 00:34:40,165
Speaker 2: to Regal Cinemas, Marty Supreme is still in theaters, and

552
00:34:40,565 --> 00:34:43,205
Speaker 2: The Bone Temple, josh Am, I correct in saying that

553
00:34:43,285 --> 00:34:45,845
Speaker 2: you still need to see the Bone Temple.

554
00:34:46,365 --> 00:34:50,125
Speaker 1: That is true. Hopefully I will rectify that within the

555
00:34:50,165 --> 00:34:50,645
Speaker 1: next week.

556
00:34:51,285 --> 00:34:55,565
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't want to predispose you. I'm worried. I'm

557
00:34:55,565 --> 00:34:57,445
Speaker 2: a little worried about your saying it.

558
00:34:57,565 --> 00:35:01,125
Speaker 1: Don't I've got my I won't fingers in my ales.

559
00:35:01,565 --> 00:35:01,965
Speaker 2: That's it.

560
00:35:02,325 --> 00:35:02,645
Speaker 1: Okay.

561
00:35:02,925 --> 00:35:05,245
Speaker 2: I want to hear what you have to say about it,

562
00:35:05,285 --> 00:35:09,245
Speaker 2: that's all. So see it, see it soon so I

563
00:35:09,285 --> 00:35:12,725
Speaker 2: can finally hear what you what you think about Nia

564
00:35:12,805 --> 00:35:17,365
Speaker 2: da Costa's latest which is available now at Regal Cinemas

565
00:35:17,365 --> 00:35:20,245
Speaker 2: and with Regal Unlimited, you could see The Bone Temple

566
00:35:20,525 --> 00:35:22,964
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567
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568
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569
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572
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578
00:36:05,445 --> 00:36:08,805
Speaker 1: Let me jump just quickly back to because you touched

579
00:36:08,805 --> 00:36:10,605
Speaker 1: on it, and I want to add to what you

580
00:36:10,645 --> 00:36:13,885
Speaker 1: said about how good Tayana Taylor is here and I

581
00:36:13,925 --> 00:36:16,285
Speaker 1: had forgotten. You know, I really do think the first

582
00:36:16,285 --> 00:36:20,725
Speaker 1: third of this movie, I don't know. I understand the

583
00:36:20,765 --> 00:36:25,645
Speaker 1: cres of the character and think that some of them

584
00:36:25,765 --> 00:36:28,925
Speaker 1: are spot on and well worth considering. I don't know

585
00:36:28,965 --> 00:36:33,725
Speaker 1: that I would say she's thinly conceived or easily brushed aside,

586
00:36:33,765 --> 00:36:36,125
Speaker 1: though watching it a second time, I feel like the

587
00:36:36,165 --> 00:36:38,725
Speaker 1: first third of the movie, which is maybe twenty twenty

588
00:36:38,725 --> 00:36:43,045
Speaker 1: five minutes, is almost perfidious story, and Bob is essentially

589
00:36:43,165 --> 00:36:45,765
Speaker 1: a side character. The first shot we get is I think,

590
00:36:45,765 --> 00:36:48,725
Speaker 1: a medium shot of Perfidia walking down the street, and

591
00:36:49,005 --> 00:36:51,925
Speaker 1: I think, to your point, in the performance, Taylor finds

592
00:36:51,965 --> 00:36:55,005
Speaker 1: ways to bring shades that perhaps aren't there in the writing.

593
00:36:56,085 --> 00:36:58,205
Speaker 1: The screen time is there, maybe it's not in all

594
00:36:58,205 --> 00:37:00,765
Speaker 1: the writing, but she has this line that I think

595
00:37:00,805 --> 00:37:04,085
Speaker 1: has spoken in voice over at one point after Willa

596
00:37:04,125 --> 00:37:06,485
Speaker 1: has been born, am I weird for being jealous of

597
00:37:06,525 --> 00:37:09,685
Speaker 1: my baby? And there's just, you know, the introspection she

598
00:37:09,765 --> 00:37:11,925
Speaker 1: gives to that is a different shade to the character

599
00:37:12,005 --> 00:37:15,725
Speaker 1: than what we've seen before. Who is this, you know, dominant,

600
00:37:15,925 --> 00:37:19,525
Speaker 1: proud in control woman. And I noticed as well, there's

601
00:37:19,565 --> 00:37:23,285
Speaker 1: a look she gives. It's along this the same moment

602
00:37:23,405 --> 00:37:26,645
Speaker 1: or in the same sort of timeframe. Bob's holding the

603
00:37:26,685 --> 00:37:31,965
Speaker 1: baby and Perfidia is looking at her and just Taylor's

604
00:37:31,965 --> 00:37:36,325
Speaker 1: face just blank, you know, and sometimes not showing any

605
00:37:36,325 --> 00:37:41,085
Speaker 1: emotion is very effective acting. At the same time, there's

606
00:37:41,125 --> 00:37:43,725
Speaker 1: a little as as soon as like a little bit

607
00:37:43,725 --> 00:37:48,085
Speaker 1: of recognition of the how momentous this is starts to

608
00:37:48,125 --> 00:37:51,605
Speaker 1: come into her eyes, she turns away. So yeah, just

609
00:37:51,685 --> 00:37:54,525
Speaker 1: reaffirming you know, what you said about Taylor's performance being

610
00:37:54,565 --> 00:37:58,165
Speaker 1: so good. I also thought, you know, I found appreciated

611
00:37:58,205 --> 00:38:02,005
Speaker 1: Regina Hall's performance as Deandra, one of the other revolutionaries.

612
00:38:02,045 --> 00:38:04,445
Speaker 1: Not a ton of scenes, but always there is the

613
00:38:04,485 --> 00:38:09,404
Speaker 1: movie's conscience. I think worried about Perfidia early on and

614
00:38:10,085 --> 00:38:12,725
Speaker 1: where she might take this there's a shot of her

615
00:38:12,845 --> 00:38:16,845
Speaker 1: later of Willa shooting a machine gun, and we see

616
00:38:16,965 --> 00:38:22,005
Speaker 1: Regina Hall's face with the same expression of concern. And

617
00:38:22,005 --> 00:38:25,285
Speaker 1: Anderson frames Willa the same way he framed Perfidy, a

618
00:38:25,325 --> 00:38:28,525
Speaker 1: pregnant shooting the gun. So it's a parallel sequence and

619
00:38:28,565 --> 00:38:31,365
Speaker 1: Regina Hall, you know, again, there is the movie's conscience

620
00:38:31,365 --> 00:38:33,645
Speaker 1: now expressing that concern for where is this going to

621
00:38:33,725 --> 00:38:37,405
Speaker 1: take Willa? Yeah, so yeah, very small, but I think

622
00:38:37,485 --> 00:38:41,205
Speaker 1: crucial role and performance there from Regina Hall.

623
00:38:41,725 --> 00:38:44,285
Speaker 2: I agree. I did want to dig into Perfidia a

624
00:38:44,325 --> 00:38:47,765
Speaker 2: little bit more because back when we reviewed it originally,

625
00:38:48,125 --> 00:38:50,485
Speaker 2: this is kind of where we left off. Or I

626
00:38:50,525 --> 00:38:52,845
Speaker 2: intended to dig into this a little bit more. But

627
00:38:52,925 --> 00:38:57,685
Speaker 2: if you recall, I woke up that morning that we

628
00:38:57,685 --> 00:39:00,645
Speaker 2: were going to review it and saw, oh, there's discourse

629
00:39:00,645 --> 00:39:03,925
Speaker 2: about this that I didn't necessarily anticipate. Maybe that was

630
00:39:04,045 --> 00:39:06,565
Speaker 2: naive of me. I just hadn't really thought about it,

631
00:39:06,605 --> 00:39:09,364
Speaker 2: but it makes sense of course, and I realized, oh,

632
00:39:09,405 --> 00:39:12,444
Speaker 2: this is going to be a bigger thing, and we'd

633
00:39:12,445 --> 00:39:14,645
Speaker 2: already talked about it for like forty minutes, so maybe

634
00:39:14,685 --> 00:39:17,405
Speaker 2: we should go ahead and wait. And now we have

635
00:39:17,485 --> 00:39:19,445
Speaker 2: this opportunity to talk about it a little bit more,

636
00:39:19,445 --> 00:39:22,725
Speaker 2: but there were things I wanted to say then, and

637
00:39:22,765 --> 00:39:24,445
Speaker 2: there are things, you know, I feel like we might

638
00:39:24,485 --> 00:39:26,845
Speaker 2: as well go ahead and say now, especially now after

639
00:39:27,205 --> 00:39:31,565
Speaker 2: we have both talked about the layers to Taylor's performance

640
00:39:31,605 --> 00:39:35,565
Speaker 2: that are definitely there. I do think in that opening

641
00:39:36,085 --> 00:39:38,844
Speaker 2: that what we see with Perfidia is that she is

642
00:39:39,165 --> 00:39:42,205
Speaker 2: She is clearly a catalyst for the action, but she's

643
00:39:42,285 --> 00:39:44,725
Speaker 2: not the main character of this film, or even the

644
00:39:44,765 --> 00:39:49,924
Speaker 2: secondary or tertiary character. She is the driver of the action.

645
00:39:50,085 --> 00:39:54,405
Speaker 2: Her part of the story is almost a prologue, and

646
00:39:54,725 --> 00:39:58,805
Speaker 2: I think for better or worse, Pta does move briskly

647
00:39:58,965 --> 00:40:01,885
Speaker 2: through that section. When I said early on there's a

648
00:40:02,005 --> 00:40:05,965
Speaker 2: thinness to that section, what I mean is is, if

649
00:40:06,005 --> 00:40:08,125
Speaker 2: you go back and look at it, Josh, she does

650
00:40:08,205 --> 00:40:11,725
Speaker 2: go from I didn't count the exact amount of time,

651
00:40:11,765 --> 00:40:14,525
Speaker 2: but she goes from having a baby to wanting to

652
00:40:14,605 --> 00:40:17,645
Speaker 2: leave that baby to I think leaving that baby in

653
00:40:17,685 --> 00:40:20,285
Speaker 2: maybe two or three minutes. You know, that's not a mistake,

654
00:40:21,205 --> 00:40:25,525
Speaker 2: it's it's the way that that section moves because we

655
00:40:25,605 --> 00:40:30,005
Speaker 2: have to get to the actual story proper. I know

656
00:40:30,045 --> 00:40:35,964
Speaker 2: that that thinness does leave some of her psychology left

657
00:40:36,005 --> 00:40:38,925
Speaker 2: to be filled in or leaves it on the table,

658
00:40:39,405 --> 00:40:43,085
Speaker 2: and we wouldn't We wouldn't allow that thinness or that

659
00:40:43,165 --> 00:40:45,884
Speaker 2: lack of psychology with Bob or Willa as the main

660
00:40:46,005 --> 00:40:48,965
Speaker 2: characters of this film. But I think we understand it

661
00:40:49,125 --> 00:40:52,844
Speaker 2: as as it's a character who disappears after the first

662
00:40:52,845 --> 00:40:55,125
Speaker 2: twenty minutes of the film. But you talked about that

663
00:40:55,205 --> 00:40:58,205
Speaker 2: part where she says being jealous of her baby. I

664
00:40:58,205 --> 00:41:01,125
Speaker 2: think it's really important that look you mentioned is really important.

665
00:41:01,565 --> 00:41:03,765
Speaker 2: The fact that she says I'm She actually says at

666
00:41:03,765 --> 00:41:06,364
Speaker 2: one point I'm not okay, and I think we see

667
00:41:06,365 --> 00:41:08,965
Speaker 2: in her someone who, it feels to me, is struggling

668
00:41:09,005 --> 00:41:11,845
Speaker 2: from some postpartum depression as well. This isn't just a

669
00:41:11,965 --> 00:41:15,445
Speaker 2: character who one day wakes up and decides, I'm actually

670
00:41:15,605 --> 00:41:20,245
Speaker 2: jealous of my child because my man seems to love

671
00:41:20,325 --> 00:41:23,125
Speaker 2: my baby daughter more than me. There are some very

672
00:41:23,125 --> 00:41:27,285
Speaker 2: complex emotions that she is experiencing. But more than that,

673
00:41:27,485 --> 00:41:30,445
Speaker 2: based on what we know about the rest of the

674
00:41:30,485 --> 00:41:35,765
Speaker 2: movie and the action that's going to unfold and what

675
00:41:36,805 --> 00:41:39,285
Speaker 2: Lockjaw is going to be motivated by, don't we have

676
00:41:39,365 --> 00:41:42,645
Speaker 2: to also understand that part of these complex feelings may

677
00:41:42,685 --> 00:41:49,925
Speaker 2: be motivated by her understanding that perhaps the baby isn't Pats.

678
00:41:50,765 --> 00:41:52,285
Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely so.

679
00:41:53,165 --> 00:41:56,205
Speaker 2: I think that's also a very crucial factor. Again, a

680
00:41:56,285 --> 00:42:00,245
Speaker 2: very complicating factor. I'm not saying every criticism of how

681
00:42:00,245 --> 00:42:01,805
Speaker 2: the characters, Yeah, go ahead.

682
00:42:02,005 --> 00:42:04,045
Speaker 1: I was just going to add, which you do have

683
00:42:04,125 --> 00:42:06,285
Speaker 1: to retrofit. I don't think this is a fun us,

684
00:42:06,605 --> 00:42:10,924
Speaker 1: but you have to retrofit that onto what you saw

685
00:42:10,965 --> 00:42:13,565
Speaker 1: on the first third, after you've learned that's right. So

686
00:42:13,765 --> 00:42:18,325
Speaker 1: it is it's a complicated process to go through to

687
00:42:18,325 --> 00:42:20,445
Speaker 1: to get to the recognition that there may be a

688
00:42:20,525 --> 00:42:25,205
Speaker 1: level of there that wasn't a parent until you have

689
00:42:25,245 --> 00:42:27,964
Speaker 1: that further information exactly. Okay.

690
00:42:28,005 --> 00:42:31,405
Speaker 2: The biggest, the biggest complaint seems to be the hyper

691
00:42:31,605 --> 00:42:35,925
Speaker 2: sexualized nature of the character. And look, when you're introduced

692
00:42:35,965 --> 00:42:39,325
Speaker 2: to her, the first four or five scenes that you

693
00:42:39,365 --> 00:42:43,364
Speaker 2: meet her, they're all sexually charged. There's no denying that

694
00:42:44,205 --> 00:42:47,965
Speaker 2: she's wielding her sexuality. And I do think, Josh, that

695
00:42:47,965 --> 00:42:52,805
Speaker 2: that's a crucial distinction. Though she's wielding it, she sees

696
00:42:53,165 --> 00:42:56,245
Speaker 2: and she describes this in a scene too, she sees

697
00:42:56,285 --> 00:43:00,085
Speaker 2: her sexuality as power. And the thing is it is

698
00:43:00,245 --> 00:43:04,605
Speaker 2: power because it's the thing that she's using with Lockjaw.

699
00:43:04,765 --> 00:43:08,605
Speaker 2: That's actually allowing her the freedom. It's affording her the

700
00:43:08,685 --> 00:43:14,565
Speaker 2: freedom to carry out her revolution. And with that in mind,

701
00:43:14,605 --> 00:43:17,325
Speaker 2: you also have to watch those scenes and realize that

702
00:43:17,685 --> 00:43:22,285
Speaker 2: there's never a time when she's wielding that sexuality where

703
00:43:22,325 --> 00:43:25,205
Speaker 2: she's not completely in control. And I think that that

704
00:43:25,405 --> 00:43:28,844
Speaker 2: I think that is significant. But I also think what's

705
00:43:28,885 --> 00:43:34,485
Speaker 2: significant is the one time where her character is sexualized,

706
00:43:35,005 --> 00:43:40,485
Speaker 2: where her character is clearly objectified. It's one scene. And

707
00:43:40,525 --> 00:43:43,885
Speaker 2: if you want to talk male gaze, the male gaze

708
00:43:43,925 --> 00:43:47,245
Speaker 2: isn't Paul Thomas Anderson's male gaze, right, And this was

709
00:43:47,245 --> 00:43:49,165
Speaker 2: something apparent the first time I saw the film. The

710
00:43:49,165 --> 00:43:52,525
Speaker 2: male gaze is Lockjaws. It's Lockjaws male gaze through the

711
00:43:52,525 --> 00:43:56,525
Speaker 2: binoculars right as he's watching her. It's not the cameras.

712
00:43:56,605 --> 00:44:00,965
Speaker 2: It's lock Jaws. And that that distinction matters. I agree.

713
00:44:01,045 --> 00:44:03,045
Speaker 1: I do think it's a tricky moment. This struck me

714
00:44:03,085 --> 00:44:06,685
Speaker 1: the first time, and I still feel this way. It's

715
00:44:07,605 --> 00:44:10,005
Speaker 1: it's always tricky when you're doing that, and there are

716
00:44:10,005 --> 00:44:15,085
Speaker 1: obviously those levels at play, But how much time are

717
00:44:15,125 --> 00:44:17,565
Speaker 1: you giving to lockjaws gaze, I think is crucial.

718
00:44:17,725 --> 00:44:18,365
Speaker 2: Not that much.

719
00:44:19,165 --> 00:44:20,844
Speaker 1: It's not that much, but it's more than we need

720
00:44:20,885 --> 00:44:24,965
Speaker 1: to understand what he's doing. And I just wonder if

721
00:44:25,005 --> 00:44:29,045
Speaker 1: that's maybe like that's what's being called doing question for

722
00:44:29,085 --> 00:44:31,565
Speaker 1: some viewers too, is like Okay, we get what he's

723
00:44:31,605 --> 00:44:35,445
Speaker 1: looking at and the camera returns to it, and and again,

724
00:44:35,605 --> 00:44:37,725
Speaker 1: I you know, I agree with you over all the

725
00:44:37,765 --> 00:44:41,405
Speaker 1: strategy employed. It's just when you're doing that, when you're saying,

726
00:44:41,485 --> 00:44:44,085
Speaker 1: this isn't the movie showing us this, this is the

727
00:44:44,085 --> 00:44:48,885
Speaker 1: movie showing us this character's attempt to see this, then

728
00:44:49,005 --> 00:44:51,685
Speaker 1: how you dole out that character's point of view? Yeah,

729
00:44:51,805 --> 00:44:54,165
Speaker 1: is a very tricky is a very tricky business. And

730
00:44:54,205 --> 00:44:56,845
Speaker 1: I wonder if for some viewers this is like we

731
00:44:57,285 --> 00:44:59,725
Speaker 1: got more of Lockjaw's view than maybe we need it.

732
00:45:00,005 --> 00:45:02,325
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean that would be a fair complaint obviously,

733
00:45:02,365 --> 00:45:05,285
Speaker 2: if you felt like the filmmaker truly was returning to

734
00:45:05,405 --> 00:45:09,404
Speaker 2: that as their as their crutch or their way around it.

735
00:45:09,845 --> 00:45:12,844
Speaker 2: But in this case, it truly is one scene and

736
00:45:13,125 --> 00:45:15,364
Speaker 2: I didn't have a stopwatch out, but it's it is.

737
00:45:15,645 --> 00:45:19,085
Speaker 2: It is relatively short, and all the other scenes I'm

738
00:45:19,125 --> 00:45:21,805
Speaker 2: talking about where we see her again and she's always

739
00:45:21,885 --> 00:45:24,924
Speaker 2: in complete control, and that camera to me is never

740
00:45:25,245 --> 00:45:27,765
Speaker 2: otherwise objectifying her. So I think I think all that

741
00:45:27,845 --> 00:45:31,445
Speaker 2: other screen time does matter. And you know what's interesting,

742
00:45:31,485 --> 00:45:34,325
Speaker 2: you said this, I notice this time. It is a

743
00:45:34,365 --> 00:45:39,645
Speaker 2: brief moment, I mean maybe two seconds, but it's there,

744
00:45:40,125 --> 00:45:42,445
Speaker 2: and I think it matters. And I think the cut

745
00:45:42,565 --> 00:45:46,805
Speaker 2: after it has to matter too. Otherwise, why is it

746
00:45:46,845 --> 00:45:47,805
Speaker 2: in the order that it's in?

747
00:45:47,885 --> 00:45:48,205
Speaker 1: Josh?

748
00:45:48,405 --> 00:45:51,885
Speaker 2: These choices matter that filmmakers make. The fact that we

749
00:45:51,965 --> 00:45:58,485
Speaker 2: get that moment where we see her walking home or

750
00:45:58,525 --> 00:46:04,525
Speaker 2: walking somewhere in the morning light, that even though she's

751
00:46:04,565 --> 00:46:07,645
Speaker 2: the one, it seems in control what had to still

752
00:46:07,685 --> 00:46:11,205
Speaker 2: be ultimately a completely degrading night where she's doing what

753
00:46:11,325 --> 00:46:14,325
Speaker 2: she's doing because she has to do it. She has

754
00:46:14,405 --> 00:46:16,965
Speaker 2: to do it in order to keep to keep the

755
00:46:17,005 --> 00:46:20,285
Speaker 2: revolution going that night with Lockjaw in the motel. The

756
00:46:20,325 --> 00:46:22,965
Speaker 2: fact that we get at that moment where we see

757
00:46:22,965 --> 00:46:26,925
Speaker 2: her it seems very contemplative walking home. And then what

758
00:46:27,045 --> 00:46:29,485
Speaker 2: is the next shot. The next shot is, as you said,

759
00:46:29,525 --> 00:46:31,364
Speaker 2: it's her shooting the machine gun, and we.

760
00:46:31,365 --> 00:46:35,205
Speaker 1: Might say between and then it's making them a triangle, right.

761
00:46:35,325 --> 00:46:37,805
Speaker 2: And it and it feels exactly and it feels like

762
00:46:38,885 --> 00:46:43,165
Speaker 2: when you when you when the the editing choices add up.

763
00:46:43,325 --> 00:46:48,445
Speaker 2: I remember feeling in that moment, feeling not just intellectually,

764
00:46:48,485 --> 00:46:52,325
Speaker 2: but feeling like that machine gun fire is an expression

765
00:46:52,325 --> 00:46:55,445
Speaker 2: of her anger and disgust. Right, it's not. It's not

766
00:46:55,725 --> 00:46:58,885
Speaker 2: just a moment where it's this is a scene showing

767
00:46:58,925 --> 00:47:03,645
Speaker 2: Perfidia enjoying shooting a machine gun. No, yeah, she's letting

768
00:47:03,685 --> 00:47:06,484
Speaker 2: out something raw. Right, So this is this is here again,

769
00:47:06,525 --> 00:47:08,924
Speaker 2: This is where we are getting psychology, This is where

770
00:47:08,925 --> 00:47:13,285
Speaker 2: we are getting inside her head that that maybe maybe

771
00:47:13,325 --> 00:47:16,445
Speaker 2: some critics aren't aren't completely giving Pta some of that

772
00:47:16,525 --> 00:47:18,925
Speaker 2: credit for I think I think those again, those choices

773
00:47:18,965 --> 00:47:20,365
Speaker 2: matter too. But here's what I want to say. The

774
00:47:20,405 --> 00:47:22,765
Speaker 2: last thing I say about the character real quick, real.

775
00:47:22,765 --> 00:47:25,205
Speaker 1: Quick, let me ask you a question about that that scene,

776
00:47:25,485 --> 00:47:28,445
Speaker 1: and I think you're right. My first experience of the

777
00:47:28,565 --> 00:47:30,485
Speaker 1: her pregnant shooting the gun was very similar to what

778
00:47:30,525 --> 00:47:32,325
Speaker 1: you're talking about. And then this time again because I

779
00:47:32,405 --> 00:47:35,365
Speaker 1: knew it was coming, it the absurdness of it just

780
00:47:35,445 --> 00:47:39,725
Speaker 1: maybe laugh so hard. But the motel room scene, so

781
00:47:39,925 --> 00:47:45,285
Speaker 1: your understanding is that she has agreed to meet him

782
00:47:46,885 --> 00:47:51,325
Speaker 1: in a way to hold off some sort of.

783
00:47:51,965 --> 00:47:53,725
Speaker 2: Well that's what he says to her. And that she

784
00:47:53,845 --> 00:47:57,405
Speaker 2: really and I think she she understands that if she

785
00:47:57,525 --> 00:48:00,964
Speaker 2: doesn't play the game with him, that that he will

786
00:48:01,725 --> 00:48:06,565
Speaker 2: he will root to her somehow or Yeah, he knows,

787
00:48:06,645 --> 00:48:09,845
Speaker 2: he knows, he knows where she is. Obviously, that's what

788
00:48:09,925 --> 00:48:12,565
Speaker 2: he's shown. He can, he can catch them anytime, and

789
00:48:12,605 --> 00:48:15,125
Speaker 2: he's he's said to her, he's made it clear that

790
00:48:15,445 --> 00:48:18,725
Speaker 2: he'll let them continue to do whatever she wants to

791
00:48:18,765 --> 00:48:21,725
Speaker 2: do and whatever they want to do as long as

792
00:48:22,605 --> 00:48:25,485
Speaker 2: she does what he wants her to, right, He'll let

793
00:48:25,565 --> 00:48:27,885
Speaker 2: her do He'll let her do whatever she wants to

794
00:48:27,925 --> 00:48:30,605
Speaker 2: do as long as she does whatever she wants to

795
00:48:30,645 --> 00:48:33,844
Speaker 2: do in the motel room with him, eat sexually with him.

796
00:48:34,045 --> 00:48:35,685
Speaker 2: So I see it as a quid pro quo.

797
00:48:36,005 --> 00:48:38,005
Speaker 1: In that way. Yeah, sense, that makes sense.

798
00:48:38,165 --> 00:48:43,125
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the overarching part of this, I guess, in

799
00:48:43,205 --> 00:48:47,965
Speaker 2: terms of the part of the criticism and my response

800
00:48:48,005 --> 00:48:50,205
Speaker 2: to her, the feeling I had watching the film, especially

801
00:48:50,245 --> 00:48:52,765
Speaker 2: the second time, it kind of goes back to what

802
00:48:52,845 --> 00:48:56,605
Speaker 2: I was saying a little bit about Marty Supreme and

803
00:48:56,645 --> 00:48:58,725
Speaker 2: that character and some of the reaction to it. I

804
00:48:58,765 --> 00:49:01,445
Speaker 2: do think we're I do feel like we're in this

805
00:49:01,485 --> 00:49:04,885
Speaker 2: world still, Josh, where every movie character has to be

806
00:49:04,925 --> 00:49:08,445
Speaker 2: approached through this Manichean lens where they're either good or bad,

807
00:49:08,885 --> 00:49:11,005
Speaker 2: and so the director's point of view must be that

808
00:49:11,005 --> 00:49:14,085
Speaker 2: they're good or bad. And all I think we can

809
00:49:14,125 --> 00:49:18,085
Speaker 2: say for certain is that the movie, one battle after another,

810
00:49:19,045 --> 00:49:23,364
Speaker 2: believes Perfidia Beverly Hills is and I'm going to quote

811
00:49:23,485 --> 00:49:26,965
Speaker 2: Rachelle from The Sisters of the Brave be Verse later

812
00:49:27,005 --> 00:49:30,685
Speaker 2: in the film, she is a problem that keeps on giving.

813
00:49:32,165 --> 00:49:35,805
Speaker 2: She did leave her daughter without a mom, and she

814
00:49:35,925 --> 00:49:38,885
Speaker 2: left her husband without a co parent, and she did

815
00:49:39,165 --> 00:49:42,844
Speaker 2: rat out her revolutionary friends. These things are These things

816
00:49:42,845 --> 00:49:46,605
Speaker 2: are facts. It's okay for her to be a problem

817
00:49:46,645 --> 00:49:49,405
Speaker 2: for the other characters in the movie, and for that,

818
00:49:49,525 --> 00:49:53,525
Speaker 2: in my mind, to not reflect a problematic depiction of

819
00:49:53,565 --> 00:49:56,765
Speaker 2: black women by Paul Thomas Anderson. If it was, if

820
00:49:56,765 --> 00:49:59,125
Speaker 2: it was the only kind of depiction of any person

821
00:49:59,125 --> 00:50:02,485
Speaker 2: of color in the movie, that might be different. But

822
00:50:03,005 --> 00:50:06,364
Speaker 2: she's a flawed She's a flawed human being who makes bad,

823
00:50:06,485 --> 00:50:10,725
Speaker 2: regrettable decisions. And as you pointed out, and I certainly

824
00:50:10,725 --> 00:50:12,725
Speaker 2: caught it this time too, or paid real close attention

825
00:50:12,765 --> 00:50:16,645
Speaker 2: to it, the movie opens on her face and also

826
00:50:17,325 --> 00:50:23,165
Speaker 2: ends ends or the penultimate moment. It's certainly a huge

827
00:50:23,165 --> 00:50:25,965
Speaker 2: moment in the film ends with that letter too. Yeah,

828
00:50:26,045 --> 00:50:28,925
Speaker 2: let's talk about the letter Charlene, which I think you

829
00:50:29,005 --> 00:50:33,685
Speaker 2: can see as as something of a redemptive moment for her.

830
00:50:34,325 --> 00:50:40,965
Speaker 2: It gives significant weight to Perfidia as that flawed character,

831
00:50:41,845 --> 00:50:45,285
Speaker 2: as a flawed but sympathetic character. It gives weight to

832
00:50:45,365 --> 00:50:48,965
Speaker 2: her as a character and her struggle and her spirit.

833
00:50:49,085 --> 00:50:52,165
Speaker 2: And so for for Pta to bookend the movie that

834
00:50:52,245 --> 00:50:55,965
Speaker 2: way there, I have a hard time reading reading it,

835
00:50:56,205 --> 00:50:59,885
Speaker 2: or reading that character as someone that that PTA sees

836
00:50:59,925 --> 00:51:02,605
Speaker 2: in a in a problematic way or in a disposable

837
00:51:02,685 --> 00:51:06,605
Speaker 2: sort of way. I see it as a much stronger

838
00:51:06,685 --> 00:51:10,245
Speaker 2: character than that. And now that I've gotten that all out,

839
00:51:10,285 --> 00:51:11,884
Speaker 2: and as I got it all out in my notes

840
00:51:11,925 --> 00:51:14,965
Speaker 2: earlier today, I did read finally the Angelica Jade Bastia

841
00:51:15,005 --> 00:51:19,045
Speaker 2: and take on this movie. And I won't read any

842
00:51:19,085 --> 00:51:20,445
Speaker 2: of it here, but I will link to it in

843
00:51:20,485 --> 00:51:22,205
Speaker 2: our show notes. I think you already linked to it,

844
00:51:22,325 --> 00:51:25,365
Speaker 2: maybe at some point when you brought it up recently

845
00:51:25,365 --> 00:51:27,765
Speaker 2: on the show, but I'll link to it again. Let's

846
00:51:27,765 --> 00:51:30,085
Speaker 2: just say I'm much more in line with Angelica's take

847
00:51:30,125 --> 00:51:32,125
Speaker 2: on the character than some of the critics.

848
00:51:32,445 --> 00:51:36,205
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and Angelica's you know piece, and she has

849
00:51:36,245 --> 00:51:38,645
Speaker 1: some pushback on the movie there, which I think is

850
00:51:39,525 --> 00:51:43,645
Speaker 1: well worth considering as well. I think is fairer than

851
00:51:43,645 --> 00:51:47,245
Speaker 1: some of the other complaints I've seen. Also, So the letter.

852
00:51:47,325 --> 00:51:52,805
Speaker 1: It's interesting though. I felt like something was off with

853
00:51:52,845 --> 00:51:55,844
Speaker 1: the letter this time around, and I honestly didn't give

854
00:51:55,885 --> 00:51:57,645
Speaker 1: it a ton of thought the first time, So it's

855
00:51:57,645 --> 00:52:00,525
Speaker 1: not necessarily that my position changed. I was just it

856
00:52:00,565 --> 00:52:02,885
Speaker 1: was such an emotional experience that first watch. I just

857
00:52:02,885 --> 00:52:05,925
Speaker 1: couldn't believe what I was seeing, and I especially loved

858
00:52:05,965 --> 00:52:10,285
Speaker 1: where the movie ended ended, and so the letter kind

859
00:52:10,285 --> 00:52:13,285
Speaker 1: of got forgotten for me in that and this time

860
00:52:13,285 --> 00:52:15,245
Speaker 1: I had a little more space to think about it.

861
00:52:15,325 --> 00:52:19,045
Speaker 1: And I don't know what it is, Adam, I don't know.

862
00:52:19,285 --> 00:52:22,445
Speaker 1: I think the intent is exactly as you say to bookend,

863
00:52:22,845 --> 00:52:26,525
Speaker 1: to expand the character, to show some growth, even if

864
00:52:26,565 --> 00:52:31,125
Speaker 1: it's off screen, and potentially hint at redemption. But based

865
00:52:31,245 --> 00:52:35,725
Speaker 1: on the perfidia we've come to know, it's just it

866
00:52:35,805 --> 00:52:39,325
Speaker 1: felt like it wasn't that that character couldn't have gotten

867
00:52:39,365 --> 00:52:42,085
Speaker 1: to that point, but there was something jarring about suddenly

868
00:52:42,165 --> 00:52:45,125
Speaker 1: having her be to that point, and that's the next

869
00:52:45,125 --> 00:52:48,964
Speaker 1: time we see her. It even occurred to me, did

870
00:52:49,165 --> 00:52:55,085
Speaker 1: Bob fake this letter? And I know that's not really

871
00:52:55,125 --> 00:52:57,885
Speaker 1: what was intended, but it popped in my head in

872
00:52:57,925 --> 00:53:01,885
Speaker 1: a way to try to offer his daughter closure of

873
00:53:01,925 --> 00:53:09,485
Speaker 1: a sort on this particular emotionally wrenching part of her

874
00:53:09,525 --> 00:53:12,605
Speaker 1: life that doesn't really I don't think I'm arguing for

875
00:53:12,645 --> 00:53:15,885
Speaker 1: that reading because he would not include the line something

876
00:53:15,925 --> 00:53:18,484
Speaker 1: about how I hope to see you again someday, because

877
00:53:18,525 --> 00:53:22,605
Speaker 1: then that's just prolonging the pain, right that eloquent I

878
00:53:22,645 --> 00:53:26,085
Speaker 1: guess what I'm trying to yeah, exactly. I guess what

879
00:53:26,125 --> 00:53:29,165
Speaker 1: I'm trying to express is maybe for me, it wasn't

880
00:53:29,165 --> 00:53:32,485
Speaker 1: an entirely successful attempt by Paul Thomas Anderson to do

881
00:53:32,565 --> 00:53:36,365
Speaker 1: what you're saying for me, just because it felt a

882
00:53:36,365 --> 00:53:38,965
Speaker 1: little bit off what I do love about the letter,

883
00:53:40,005 --> 00:53:43,725
Speaker 1: and maybe this is primarily why it's there, and I

884
00:53:43,765 --> 00:53:46,125
Speaker 1: think it works wonderfully for this is the one line

885
00:53:46,165 --> 00:53:48,605
Speaker 1: in it where she says something about give your dad

886
00:53:48,645 --> 00:53:54,405
Speaker 1: a kiss for me, because that made space for the

887
00:53:54,485 --> 00:54:00,205
Speaker 1: father and daughter's long embrace, and we've seen them embrace

888
00:54:00,685 --> 00:54:03,685
Speaker 1: almost like immediate post trauma. When he finally finds her

889
00:54:03,765 --> 00:54:06,885
Speaker 1: on the desert road. But that's a different that's like

890
00:54:06,885 --> 00:54:10,325
Speaker 1: a we're alive embrace, and you almost wonder if maybe

891
00:54:10,325 --> 00:54:12,325
Speaker 1: this is the first time they've been able to just

892
00:54:13,005 --> 00:54:15,884
Speaker 1: give a like we're alive and we're going to live

893
00:54:16,885 --> 00:54:21,125
Speaker 1: together embrace. And I loved that touch. And the letter

894
00:54:21,885 --> 00:54:26,965
Speaker 1: is the impetus for that happening. It's almost like maybe

895
00:54:27,005 --> 00:54:31,565
Speaker 1: there was something still between them, but Perfidia's encouragement to

896
00:54:31,685 --> 00:54:35,844
Speaker 1: make that physical move broke that down, and now they've

897
00:54:35,885 --> 00:54:39,605
Speaker 1: been able to do that, and Yeah, I just thought

898
00:54:39,645 --> 00:54:41,005
Speaker 1: that was a beautiful touch for the ending.

899
00:54:41,445 --> 00:54:43,685
Speaker 2: Well, I'll take it a step further. I don't think.

900
00:54:44,125 --> 00:54:47,285
Speaker 2: I don't think Perfidia had to say it in her letter.

901
00:54:47,965 --> 00:54:50,485
Speaker 2: I don't think that even matters, though I think it's

902
00:54:50,525 --> 00:54:52,844
Speaker 2: her letter that does encourage it. And this is also

903
00:54:52,925 --> 00:54:55,125
Speaker 2: where I'm for the first time, but not the last time,

904
00:54:55,925 --> 00:54:58,605
Speaker 2: over the course of our future doing shows together that

905
00:54:58,645 --> 00:55:00,565
Speaker 2: I'm gonna call you, Comrade Josh. I think you're being

906
00:55:00,645 --> 00:55:05,125
Speaker 2: nitpicky because I think the letter's great as written, and

907
00:55:05,645 --> 00:55:09,125
Speaker 2: the reason I like it is because I think it's redemptive,

908
00:55:09,805 --> 00:55:13,005
Speaker 2: but without going too far to be redemptive to me,

909
00:55:13,565 --> 00:55:19,125
Speaker 2: It reads exactly how I might imagine a woman like

910
00:55:19,845 --> 00:55:24,884
Speaker 2: Perfidia with some distance and some maturity and some regret

911
00:55:25,245 --> 00:55:30,685
Speaker 2: to process what she's done and to process those regrets.

912
00:55:30,045 --> 00:55:34,525
Speaker 2: It it didn't seem any more certainly sentimental or any

913
00:55:34,565 --> 00:55:37,605
Speaker 2: wiser than it needed to be. I thought it was.

914
00:55:37,645 --> 00:55:40,165
Speaker 2: I thought it was where it exactly needed to be.

915
00:55:40,285 --> 00:55:43,605
Speaker 2: And the reason why it works is because of the

916
00:55:43,605 --> 00:55:46,405
Speaker 2: moment that follows You're exactly right. What I love about

917
00:55:46,445 --> 00:55:49,245
Speaker 2: it is whether she said it or not, and I

918
00:55:49,285 --> 00:55:52,924
Speaker 2: almost wish she hadn't said it. It doesn't matter to me, though,

919
00:55:53,085 --> 00:55:56,205
Speaker 2: because what I love is the fact that then she goes,

920
00:55:57,005 --> 00:56:00,645
Speaker 2: she goes and hugs and gives that embrace to Bob,

921
00:56:00,925 --> 00:56:05,485
Speaker 2: because I think, without rejecting, without it being needing to

922
00:56:05,525 --> 00:56:09,125
Speaker 2: be an outright rejection of her mother in any way,

923
00:56:09,205 --> 00:56:13,285
Speaker 2: it's still recognition on the part of Charlene. I think

924
00:56:13,325 --> 00:56:15,085
Speaker 2: part of the movie, Josh and here I want to

925
00:56:15,085 --> 00:56:17,685
Speaker 2: get into the emotional resonance of the film, and it

926
00:56:18,085 --> 00:56:20,685
Speaker 2: resonated with me the first time, But like everything else

927
00:56:20,725 --> 00:56:23,325
Speaker 2: we've done talked about, this part of it was so

928
00:56:23,405 --> 00:56:27,364
Speaker 2: much stronger for me the second time. This this part

929
00:56:27,405 --> 00:56:32,884
Speaker 2: of it where she recognizes that I think she's she's

930
00:56:32,885 --> 00:56:36,285
Speaker 2: still been clinging to this idealized version of her mother

931
00:56:37,125 --> 00:56:40,925
Speaker 2: and in some ways not moving forward as a daughter

932
00:56:41,445 --> 00:56:44,245
Speaker 2: and not moving forward as a person, but also not

933
00:56:44,285 --> 00:56:47,765
Speaker 2: moving forward as a daughter, and maybe not not that

934
00:56:47,765 --> 00:56:50,125
Speaker 2: her not that her father totally deserves it, as I'm

935
00:56:50,125 --> 00:56:55,125
Speaker 2: going to argue, but but also not not necessarily moving

936
00:56:55,925 --> 00:56:59,165
Speaker 2: or interacting with him the way maybe she should, because

937
00:56:59,205 --> 00:57:02,325
Speaker 2: she's still she's still clinging to this idea of of

938
00:57:02,365 --> 00:57:06,245
Speaker 2: this mom and this image of a mom that that

939
00:57:06,245 --> 00:57:09,005
Speaker 2: that maybe she wants to be. And the dad Bob

940
00:57:09,045 --> 00:57:11,765
Speaker 2: has even said she he always thought that she would

941
00:57:11,805 --> 00:57:15,364
Speaker 2: come back, that someday she might come back and and

942
00:57:15,405 --> 00:57:19,045
Speaker 2: be the mom she's supposed to be. And the letter

943
00:57:19,565 --> 00:57:24,325
Speaker 2: provides the closure that now she can set that aside,

944
00:57:24,965 --> 00:57:27,525
Speaker 2: and now she can go and she can show the

945
00:57:27,645 --> 00:57:32,125
Speaker 2: love to Bob that he deserves and that she should

946
00:57:32,165 --> 00:57:36,365
Speaker 2: show him. And it feels like that that cathartic moment

947
00:57:36,925 --> 00:57:39,005
Speaker 2: that she can say, you were the one that was

948
00:57:39,045 --> 00:57:42,765
Speaker 2: here with me this entire time, and we're together, We've

949
00:57:42,765 --> 00:57:45,645
Speaker 2: always been together, and we're going to be together moving forward.

950
00:57:45,765 --> 00:57:48,045
Speaker 2: And there there isn't any kind of shadow hanging over

951
00:57:48,125 --> 00:57:51,085
Speaker 2: us anymore. That's a really powerful thing in that moment

952
00:57:51,125 --> 00:57:53,885
Speaker 2: that I think that letter provides, regardless of honestly in

953
00:57:53,925 --> 00:57:56,245
Speaker 2: a way anything it says, you know, or any of

954
00:57:56,285 --> 00:57:59,925
Speaker 2: the specific words that are written, it provides that closure.

955
00:57:59,965 --> 00:58:02,645
Speaker 2: And I think that's what really moved me about that moment.

956
00:58:03,445 --> 00:58:05,405
Speaker 1: And there's a double power to the ending for me

957
00:58:05,485 --> 00:58:10,165
Speaker 1: because there's that cathartic emotional element for the characters and

958
00:58:10,525 --> 00:58:14,085
Speaker 1: it carried over to me and how this is on

959
00:58:14,165 --> 00:58:18,085
Speaker 1: both viewings and how we've been living and how we're

960
00:58:18,125 --> 00:58:20,845
Speaker 1: going to have to live. I think your point of

961
00:58:21,725 --> 00:58:23,885
Speaker 1: her vision of her mom and no longer is this

962
00:58:24,005 --> 00:58:29,765
Speaker 1: idealized revolutionary. She now has a more realistic, practical understanding

963
00:58:30,365 --> 00:58:35,885
Speaker 1: of what quote unquote revolutionary, dissident, resist, whatever degree you

964
00:58:35,925 --> 00:58:38,525
Speaker 1: want to talk about. Everyone's going to have to be

965
00:58:38,605 --> 00:58:42,205
Speaker 1: something in this movie and in real life now. And

966
00:58:42,245 --> 00:58:45,405
Speaker 1: that's why I love this ending as a parallel scene,

967
00:58:45,445 --> 00:58:48,685
Speaker 1: another parallel scene. He does this a number of times

968
00:58:48,725 --> 00:58:52,485
Speaker 1: in one battle after another to what we've discussed. When

969
00:58:52,725 --> 00:58:55,165
Speaker 1: she gets picked up by her friends for the dance, right,

970
00:58:56,005 --> 00:58:59,605
Speaker 1: this is another instance of the two of them at

971
00:58:59,645 --> 00:59:05,205
Speaker 1: home together and she suddenly is going to leave this time,

972
00:59:05,325 --> 00:59:08,285
Speaker 1: she's not going to a dance, She's going to a protest.

973
00:59:08,725 --> 00:59:12,325
Speaker 1: The world has changed. They have to face that reality.

974
00:59:12,605 --> 00:59:15,365
Speaker 1: We have to face that reality now in our lives.

975
00:59:16,005 --> 00:59:21,125
Speaker 1: Notice Bob's emotional state though, in both instances paranoia and

976
00:59:21,165 --> 00:59:25,645
Speaker 1: she's going to the dance right, absolute paranoia. Panic. Here

977
00:59:26,005 --> 00:59:32,245
Speaker 1: he's realistic about the dangers, but he's calm. And I

978
00:59:32,285 --> 00:59:37,445
Speaker 1: appreciate one for one battle after another now twice within

979
00:59:38,325 --> 00:59:44,525
Speaker 1: eight months, for being a rooting experience. Whereas yes, things

980
00:59:44,525 --> 00:59:48,405
Speaker 1: are as bad as you think, deep breaths, ocean waves.

981
00:59:49,045 --> 00:59:53,605
Speaker 1: There is a way forward. It may not be what

982
00:59:53,685 --> 00:59:56,485
Speaker 1: you have in mind based on other movies you've seen,

983
00:59:57,005 --> 01:00:01,605
Speaker 1: your imagination, your desires, but there is a way forward,

984
01:00:01,605 --> 01:00:05,765
Speaker 1: and it might look something like this. The way it

985
01:00:05,765 --> 01:00:09,205
Speaker 1: looks for these two characters and Catharsis is maybe one

986
01:00:09,205 --> 01:00:11,605
Speaker 1: way to describe that. Hope is another way to describe it.

987
01:00:12,285 --> 01:00:16,285
Speaker 1: Just to know you're not crazy and you're not alone.

988
01:00:16,565 --> 01:00:20,445
Speaker 1: This is how I feel after watching one battle after another.

989
01:00:21,045 --> 01:00:22,725
Speaker 1: A big part of that is this final scene.

990
01:00:23,965 --> 01:00:26,685
Speaker 2: I want to talk a little bit more about what

991
01:00:26,965 --> 01:00:31,245
Speaker 2: connected with me emotionally here, but I also want to

992
01:00:31,325 --> 01:00:34,445
Speaker 2: talk about those final moments A little bit, and I

993
01:00:34,445 --> 01:00:38,485
Speaker 2: think I want to talk about how it inspired me,

994
01:00:38,725 --> 01:00:43,005
Speaker 2: or maybe motivated me, or maybe felt left me with

995
01:00:43,085 --> 01:00:48,325
Speaker 2: a feeling of wanting to engage with the world. Josh,

996
01:00:48,365 --> 01:00:51,925
Speaker 2: but it's going to come. I guess maybe the best

997
01:00:51,965 --> 01:00:54,325
Speaker 2: way I can frame it is I'm going to come

998
01:00:54,365 --> 01:00:56,885
Speaker 2: at it through the back door a little bit, maybe

999
01:00:56,885 --> 01:01:00,005
Speaker 2: with a little bit of cynicism actually in terms of

1000
01:01:00,005 --> 01:01:01,925
Speaker 2: the way I'm viewing the end of the movie. And

1001
01:01:02,005 --> 01:01:06,125
Speaker 2: we'll see, will see how you take to my read

1002
01:01:06,165 --> 01:01:09,485
Speaker 2: of it. It's funny when we reviewed this movie. Originally

1003
01:01:10,885 --> 01:01:13,765
Speaker 2: it didn't dwell on it, but I tried to find

1004
01:01:13,765 --> 01:01:18,165
Speaker 2: a parallel to PTA's other films in that he often

1005
01:01:19,045 --> 01:01:23,605
Speaker 2: has characters in his films who are con men or hustlers,

1006
01:01:23,605 --> 01:01:25,565
Speaker 2: and I saw a little bit of that, just a

1007
01:01:25,605 --> 01:01:28,725
Speaker 2: little bit of it in Pat in that he seemed

1008
01:01:28,725 --> 01:01:30,285
Speaker 2: like someone who's a little bit of a fish out

1009
01:01:30,285 --> 01:01:33,205
Speaker 2: of water, who is trying to always portray himself. He

1010
01:01:33,285 --> 01:01:37,005
Speaker 2: wasn't the true revolutionary that maybe Perfidia or some of

1011
01:01:37,045 --> 01:01:39,885
Speaker 2: the other people in the group were, and he always

1012
01:01:39,885 --> 01:01:42,365
Speaker 2: seemed like a little bit of a fraud. Watching it

1013
01:01:42,605 --> 01:01:45,365
Speaker 2: a second time, I realized that that doesn't really seem

1014
01:01:45,365 --> 01:01:49,125
Speaker 2: to be the case. He's actually he is, actually a

1015
01:01:49,125 --> 01:01:52,365
Speaker 2: bit of a screw up maybe, but he's the true revolutionary.

1016
01:01:52,405 --> 01:01:55,405
Speaker 2: He's the real deal. He may be a stump, as

1017
01:01:55,485 --> 01:02:01,245
Speaker 2: Perfidia's mother calls him, compared to her, but I think

1018
01:02:01,285 --> 01:02:03,245
Speaker 2: we can believe that he's the real deal. Of course,

1019
01:02:03,765 --> 01:02:07,525
Speaker 2: the real theme that's the connector here to Paul Thomas

1020
01:02:07,565 --> 01:02:11,485
Speaker 2: Anderson's other work is the father and son theme, except

1021
01:02:11,565 --> 01:02:15,205
Speaker 2: in this case it's fathers and daughters that drives everything.

1022
01:02:15,285 --> 01:02:20,125
Speaker 2: And the moment or one of the filmmaking highlights for

1023
01:02:20,205 --> 01:02:25,965
Speaker 2: me here that established the emotional weight or set it up.

1024
01:02:26,005 --> 01:02:28,445
Speaker 2: And this this is subtle, Josh, this isn't. This isn't

1025
01:02:28,445 --> 01:02:30,245
Speaker 2: like some of the other sequences in the movie, like

1026
01:02:30,245 --> 01:02:35,605
Speaker 2: we talked about the the underground railroad or the even

1027
01:02:35,645 --> 01:02:38,965
Speaker 2: the end right on the on the roads on the hills.

1028
01:02:39,285 --> 01:02:43,485
Speaker 2: But what a little montage that signals the end, the

1029
01:02:43,645 --> 01:02:47,285
Speaker 2: end of the Perfidia sequence into the modern day, the way,

1030
01:02:48,685 --> 01:02:51,805
Speaker 2: the way that is marked with editing. We go from

1031
01:02:52,405 --> 01:02:55,005
Speaker 2: basically close ups or medium close ups, a shot of

1032
01:02:55,165 --> 01:03:01,165
Speaker 2: Perfidia as she goes into Mexico to Lockjaw reading the

1033
01:03:01,285 --> 01:03:04,485
Speaker 2: letter that he's left for her. So here it is

1034
01:03:04,685 --> 01:03:09,485
Speaker 2: Perfidia being the problem that keeps on giving. She leaves,

1035
01:03:10,405 --> 01:03:16,485
Speaker 2: that leaves a problem emotionally for lockjaw right to pat

1036
01:03:16,685 --> 01:03:20,885
Speaker 2: the problem that she's left for him to baby Will

1037
01:03:22,045 --> 01:03:25,125
Speaker 2: we see her face the problem she's left for baby

1038
01:03:25,125 --> 01:03:29,205
Speaker 2: Willa to then grown Willa. And the dirty work, the

1039
01:03:29,245 --> 01:03:31,605
Speaker 2: great use of Steely Dan's dirty work there in the

1040
01:03:31,645 --> 01:03:34,645
Speaker 2: dojo right with Sensey, That's how we transition. It's just

1041
01:03:34,685 --> 01:03:38,325
Speaker 2: those shots. It just cuts on faces it and it's

1042
01:03:38,365 --> 01:03:41,805
Speaker 2: just the marking of Perfidia to the people that have

1043
01:03:41,925 --> 01:03:45,445
Speaker 2: been left in her wake. Basically, it's really incredible. But

1044
01:03:46,005 --> 01:03:49,285
Speaker 2: something that I thought was interesting this time was when

1045
01:03:49,485 --> 01:03:54,005
Speaker 2: he is explaining, when Bob is explaining to Sense the pagers, right,

1046
01:03:54,365 --> 01:03:56,845
Speaker 2: he says the old tracking device and he says it

1047
01:03:56,845 --> 01:04:00,085
Speaker 2: goes off when it's within one hundred yards. If it works,

1048
01:04:00,405 --> 01:04:03,045
Speaker 2: he says, and it never works. Sometimes it does, but

1049
01:04:03,245 --> 01:04:06,765
Speaker 2: mostly it doesn't. That's his line, And I'm going to

1050
01:04:06,805 --> 01:04:13,245
Speaker 2: propose that those tracking devices are a metaphor for parenting

1051
01:04:14,365 --> 01:04:17,805
Speaker 2: or this father daughter relationship. You could say that pager,

1052
01:04:17,925 --> 01:04:20,925
Speaker 2: that tracking device in particular that he's describing to Sense,

1053
01:04:21,325 --> 01:04:25,565
Speaker 2: is a symbol for Bob it's an old tracking device.

1054
01:04:26,565 --> 01:04:31,205
Speaker 2: It tracks the kids. It's supposed to protect, right, it's

1055
01:04:31,205 --> 01:04:36,005
Speaker 2: supposed to be on alert, and sometimes it does protect,

1056
01:04:36,805 --> 01:04:40,565
Speaker 2: but mostly it doesn't. You know, sometimes it does its job,

1057
01:04:40,925 --> 01:04:43,725
Speaker 2: but mostly it doesn't. Mostly it's drunken high and it's

1058
01:04:43,765 --> 01:04:46,765
Speaker 2: just kind of there. That's that's Bob, right, And we

1059
01:04:46,845 --> 01:04:49,325
Speaker 2: see that because that first scene where Will and Bob

1060
01:04:49,325 --> 01:04:52,165
Speaker 2: are at the table, Will is the parent to Bob.

1061
01:04:52,525 --> 01:04:55,965
Speaker 2: The lines she has are the parent confronting the kid.

1062
01:04:56,205 --> 01:04:59,365
Speaker 2: Where were you? Even the line I don't want to

1063
01:04:59,405 --> 01:05:02,085
Speaker 2: worry if you wrapped your car around a telephone pole.

1064
01:05:02,365 --> 01:05:05,885
Speaker 2: That's like one of the gold the golden oldies, right,

1065
01:05:06,005 --> 01:05:10,165
Speaker 2: going into the greatest hits of parents to their kids.

1066
01:05:10,405 --> 01:05:14,925
Speaker 2: You know, he has effectively relinquished his role as parent

1067
01:05:15,685 --> 01:05:17,925
Speaker 2: to her, and that's part of why she's so angry

1068
01:05:18,005 --> 01:05:22,405
Speaker 2: with him. We understand that he he has relinquished's role

1069
01:05:22,445 --> 01:05:27,885
Speaker 2: except in conventional authority situations like being overprotective about what

1070
01:05:27,965 --> 01:05:30,445
Speaker 2: she's wearing to the dance and who she's with and

1071
01:05:30,525 --> 01:05:33,565
Speaker 2: you know, harassing her friends. Right, Like that's when he

1072
01:05:33,605 --> 01:05:37,645
Speaker 2: turns in two dad, and he also says later he's

1073
01:05:37,725 --> 01:05:43,045
Speaker 2: talking about Josh. He's talking about the role of protecting

1074
01:05:43,085 --> 01:05:48,005
Speaker 2: her in terms of lockjaw and their roles as revolutionaries

1075
01:05:48,085 --> 01:05:50,525
Speaker 2: old revolutionaries. But I think it applies across the board,

1076
01:05:50,845 --> 01:05:53,525
Speaker 2: he says to someone, I got lazy. I think it's sense. Again,

1077
01:05:53,565 --> 01:05:56,765
Speaker 2: he says, I got lazy. I wasn't paying attention. I

1078
01:05:56,805 --> 01:05:59,645
Speaker 2: think that describes what he was doing as parent. And

1079
01:05:59,845 --> 01:06:03,485
Speaker 2: another key line that tells you everything you need to

1080
01:06:03,525 --> 01:06:07,365
Speaker 2: know about him as dad and about their relationship and

1081
01:06:07,405 --> 01:06:11,405
Speaker 2: why she is so angry with him, is he says,

1082
01:06:11,645 --> 01:06:15,325
Speaker 2: I don't get mad about anything anymore. That's the thing, Like,

1083
01:06:15,765 --> 01:06:18,245
Speaker 2: that's part of our job as parents is to get

1084
01:06:18,245 --> 01:06:21,565
Speaker 2: mad about things, is to keep our kids honest path

1085
01:06:21,605 --> 01:06:24,045
Speaker 2: and to be paying attention, and to get angry about

1086
01:06:24,205 --> 01:06:27,485
Speaker 2: not just the superficial things, right, is to get mad

1087
01:06:27,525 --> 01:06:30,085
Speaker 2: about the really important, serious stuff. And he doesn't take

1088
01:06:30,125 --> 01:06:33,365
Speaker 2: anything really seriously. That's the problem. She actually wants him

1089
01:06:33,405 --> 01:06:35,885
Speaker 2: in her life, she wants him to care about things,

1090
01:06:35,965 --> 01:06:39,085
Speaker 2: but he's too tuned out. He's tuned out. And so

1091
01:06:39,565 --> 01:06:42,765
Speaker 2: this is why Josh it's so important and why it's

1092
01:06:42,885 --> 01:06:48,045
Speaker 2: so it's so powerful, like legitimately powerful. At the end,

1093
01:06:48,965 --> 01:06:55,805
Speaker 2: when when he comes around that corner of that rock, right,

1094
01:06:56,525 --> 01:07:00,245
Speaker 2: And she doesn't just put the gun down when she

1095
01:07:00,325 --> 01:07:03,565
Speaker 2: sees she sees that it's her dad. There's no confusion

1096
01:07:03,685 --> 01:07:06,725
Speaker 2: about whether or not it's her dad. That's not the point.

1097
01:07:06,805 --> 01:07:09,445
Speaker 2: But what does she yell at him? Who are you?

1098
01:07:10,525 --> 01:07:13,925
Speaker 2: She yells at him, who are you? She knows it's

1099
01:07:13,925 --> 01:07:18,965
Speaker 2: her dad. The point is that she's demanding of him

1100
01:07:19,525 --> 01:07:25,165
Speaker 2: that he finally assert his identity as her father, that

1101
01:07:25,245 --> 01:07:28,805
Speaker 2: he prove it right, that he needs to step up

1102
01:07:29,165 --> 01:07:31,925
Speaker 2: and in this moment he needs to say it. And

1103
01:07:31,965 --> 01:07:34,885
Speaker 2: when he says, it's your dad, she makes him do

1104
01:07:35,085 --> 01:07:39,645
Speaker 2: the do the lines right, do the old revolutionary spiel.

1105
01:07:40,445 --> 01:07:43,205
Speaker 2: She makes him say it rather than just go, oh

1106
01:07:43,285 --> 01:07:46,285
Speaker 2: daddy and fall into his arms. She makes him do it.

1107
01:07:46,565 --> 01:07:50,845
Speaker 2: She asserts herself, asserts her identity, and she makes him

1108
01:07:50,925 --> 01:07:54,205
Speaker 2: have to come to terms with his failings as a father.

1109
01:07:54,845 --> 01:07:58,565
Speaker 2: That's incredible. That's what's so incredible to me about the

1110
01:07:59,285 --> 01:08:02,485
Speaker 2: ending there, and that those moments before they do actually

1111
01:08:02,525 --> 01:08:03,405
Speaker 2: finally embrace on.

1112
01:08:03,405 --> 01:08:08,645
Speaker 1: The road, there is a detail in that little sequence,

1113
01:08:08,685 --> 01:08:11,365
Speaker 1: that little moment that you're just describing on the road

1114
01:08:11,565 --> 01:08:13,965
Speaker 1: that I didn't notice until this time. And it involves

1115
01:08:14,005 --> 01:08:18,884
Speaker 1: the tracking devices. Actually they're basically these censor chimes, so

1116
01:08:19,005 --> 01:08:21,485
Speaker 1: they start to make this chiming sound when they're near

1117
01:08:21,525 --> 01:08:25,245
Speaker 1: each other. The Johnny green Wood Score try to pay

1118
01:08:25,245 --> 01:08:28,605
Speaker 1: more attention to it this time around, because it's subbler

1119
01:08:28,644 --> 01:08:31,205
Speaker 1: than a lot of his other work for Paul Thomas Anderson.

1120
01:08:32,325 --> 01:08:34,485
Speaker 1: And one part that I did notice comes earlier. It's

1121
01:08:34,564 --> 01:08:37,925
Speaker 1: during that incredible care chase over the Rolling Hills where

1122
01:08:38,125 --> 01:08:41,365
Speaker 1: the score just goes into percussion mode and you don't

1123
01:08:41,365 --> 01:08:44,045
Speaker 1: get anything else for a while. Very effective. But in

1124
01:08:44,085 --> 01:08:48,604
Speaker 1: this moment when she's demanding who are you, and even

1125
01:08:48,725 --> 01:08:51,165
Speaker 1: before that a little bit, I think as they're approaching

1126
01:08:51,205 --> 01:08:56,125
Speaker 1: each other, the score picks up the note of those

1127
01:08:56,205 --> 01:09:03,085
Speaker 1: chimes and incorporates a variation on it into the actual composition.

1128
01:09:03,765 --> 01:09:05,205
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just.

1129
01:09:05,365 --> 01:09:08,764
Speaker 2: He's holding gorgeous.

1130
01:09:08,765 --> 01:09:11,525
Speaker 1: It's not just amplify. I don't think I'm wrong here.

1131
01:09:11,725 --> 01:09:15,445
Speaker 1: I don't think it's amplifying the chimes of the censors. No,

1132
01:09:15,565 --> 01:09:18,285
Speaker 1: I think it's actually taken. I don't think she has

1133
01:09:18,325 --> 01:09:21,005
Speaker 1: hers on her at that point. You might be right,

1134
01:09:21,205 --> 01:09:24,525
Speaker 1: So I think it's taking those notes and imbedding them

1135
01:09:24,525 --> 01:09:29,965
Speaker 1: into a larger, so still subtle peace. Yeah, that is, yeah,

1136
01:09:30,445 --> 01:09:32,005
Speaker 1: audibly bringing them.

1137
01:09:32,205 --> 01:09:38,445
Speaker 2: Yeah together, right, So everything about that I just love. Now.

1138
01:09:39,045 --> 01:09:43,485
Speaker 2: At the end in the letter, Perfidious says we failed,

1139
01:09:45,005 --> 01:09:50,445
Speaker 2: maybe you will not, and consistent with Bob's now you

1140
01:09:50,605 --> 01:09:56,045
Speaker 2: articulated this, consistent with Bob's now acceptance of their relationship,

1141
01:09:56,325 --> 01:10:00,525
Speaker 2: his new understanding of his role of father and better

1142
01:10:00,605 --> 01:10:04,285
Speaker 2: acceptance of that role, their dynamic as father daughter, and

1143
01:10:04,365 --> 01:10:08,365
Speaker 2: acceptance of her activism rather than trying to overprotect her,

1144
01:10:08,445 --> 01:10:10,845
Speaker 2: rather than trying to keep her from engaging with the world.

1145
01:10:12,205 --> 01:10:14,805
Speaker 2: I suggested when we talked about this the first time, Josh,

1146
01:10:14,845 --> 01:10:17,805
Speaker 2: that it was very hopeful and very promising, and that

1147
01:10:18,325 --> 01:10:20,725
Speaker 2: I read the ending as if it was saying that

1148
01:10:21,485 --> 01:10:25,285
Speaker 2: maybe it's time for this generation, this generation that failed

1149
01:10:26,245 --> 01:10:29,005
Speaker 2: to get out of the way, to clear the path

1150
01:10:30,165 --> 01:10:35,525
Speaker 2: and to be accepting and to be encouraging, but to

1151
01:10:35,565 --> 01:10:38,485
Speaker 2: get out of the way and let this new generation go.

1152
01:10:39,525 --> 01:10:42,925
Speaker 2: But I've been since then, I've been wrestling with something

1153
01:10:42,965 --> 01:10:46,805
Speaker 2: and I and this was before revisiting it. What I

1154
01:10:46,845 --> 01:10:54,005
Speaker 2: can't shake is how do you justify and this is

1155
01:10:54,085 --> 01:10:57,725
Speaker 2: now where it overlaps with back to back to our

1156
01:10:57,765 --> 01:11:03,924
Speaker 2: real world situation. How do you justify Bob's apathy because

1157
01:11:04,325 --> 01:11:09,645
Speaker 2: allowing or even if you say encouraging his daughter's participation

1158
01:11:10,365 --> 01:11:15,325
Speaker 2: in changing the world, that's all fine and good. But

1159
01:11:16,805 --> 01:11:19,564
Speaker 2: isn't he in his early forties? Isn't that what we hear?

1160
01:11:21,125 --> 01:11:25,165
Speaker 2: Has he fought all of his battles? Were those battles enough?

1161
01:11:26,285 --> 01:11:29,925
Speaker 2: Does he not need to fight any more battles? How

1162
01:11:30,005 --> 01:11:32,965
Speaker 2: old is sense? Seems about the same age to me.

1163
01:11:34,365 --> 01:11:37,525
Speaker 2: He's sure fighting a lot of battles. How old is Deandra,

1164
01:11:38,125 --> 01:11:41,005
Speaker 2: She's fighting a lot of battles. How old is Howard Somerville?

1165
01:11:41,365 --> 01:11:44,005
Speaker 2: He sure committed to the cause before he got taken

1166
01:11:44,005 --> 01:11:45,005
Speaker 2: to the detention center?

1167
01:11:45,165 --> 01:11:45,365
Speaker 1: Right?

1168
01:11:45,685 --> 01:11:49,765
Speaker 2: What about what about Tally the Grayhawk ten or whatever?

1169
01:11:49,805 --> 01:11:52,644
Speaker 2: Who gets on the phone? He's still doing it even loser,

1170
01:11:52,725 --> 01:11:57,605
Speaker 2: Comrade Josh with his rebellion text. At least he's in

1171
01:11:57,645 --> 01:12:02,045
Speaker 2: the game, Josh. At the end of the movie, Bob's

1172
01:12:02,045 --> 01:12:04,965
Speaker 2: still just laying on the couch, still getting high, still

1173
01:12:05,045 --> 01:12:09,205
Speaker 2: drinking wine, just laying on the couch taking a selfie.

1174
01:12:09,925 --> 01:12:11,365
Speaker 2: How are we supposed to feel about that?

1175
01:12:12,045 --> 01:12:14,564
Speaker 1: I didn't read it that way at all.

1176
01:12:14,925 --> 01:12:17,205
Speaker 2: I believe it is what it is. It's not a

1177
01:12:17,285 --> 01:12:19,005
Speaker 2: read it is what it is. He's laying on the

1178
01:12:19,005 --> 01:12:21,405
Speaker 2: couch when when things are going on need to be

1179
01:12:21,405 --> 01:12:22,125
Speaker 2: fixed in the way.

1180
01:12:22,125 --> 01:12:24,805
Speaker 1: Okay, how do you feel about that? I admit he's

1181
01:12:24,885 --> 01:12:27,684
Speaker 1: laying on the couch. I felt fine with it, because, again,

1182
01:12:28,045 --> 01:12:33,045
Speaker 1: it goes back to me, it's more about an emotional

1183
01:12:33,085 --> 01:12:39,965
Speaker 1: state and an understanding of what again, revolution, resistance, dissidence

1184
01:12:40,765 --> 01:12:45,005
Speaker 1: might look like. I think, and here is where those

1185
01:12:45,125 --> 01:12:48,725
Speaker 1: who are criticizing the film for being something a work

1186
01:12:48,725 --> 01:12:51,765
Speaker 1: of art that is calling for political violence, I think

1187
01:12:51,805 --> 01:12:56,245
Speaker 1: are completely misreading the movie. We see Bob willing to

1188
01:12:56,485 --> 01:13:01,965
Speaker 1: go that far in the opening section, and I think

1189
01:13:02,005 --> 01:13:06,845
Speaker 1: what we see at the end, for me, is someone

1190
01:13:06,845 --> 01:13:10,564
Speaker 1: who has realized that there may be a different path

1191
01:13:10,645 --> 01:13:14,885
Speaker 1: between political violence, the quote unquote revolution he was a

1192
01:13:14,885 --> 01:13:20,445
Speaker 1: part of at the beginning and completely checked out because

1193
01:13:20,685 --> 01:13:24,085
Speaker 1: that approach failed in his mind. So we see him

1194
01:13:24,125 --> 01:13:28,644
Speaker 1: in the middle section completely checked out, not engaged at all.

1195
01:13:28,765 --> 01:13:31,525
Speaker 1: That's part of his daughter's anger towards him. As you

1196
01:13:31,565 --> 01:13:35,805
Speaker 1: described at the end, I had a sense that he

1197
01:13:36,005 --> 01:13:41,765
Speaker 1: had come closer to where Sense is actually during that

1198
01:13:41,885 --> 01:13:46,644
Speaker 1: wonderful sequence. There's a little a side where Sense gives

1199
01:13:46,925 --> 01:13:49,645
Speaker 1: so many lessons to Bob in those six minutes, but

1200
01:13:49,685 --> 01:13:53,045
Speaker 1: one of them is sometimes you play offense. Sometimes you

1201
01:13:53,085 --> 01:13:56,485
Speaker 1: play defense. He says, we gotta go defense. We got

1202
01:13:56,485 --> 01:14:00,965
Speaker 1: to go defense, Bob, And I guess for me, I

1203
01:14:01,085 --> 01:14:06,405
Speaker 1: found it again like personally assuring is that I don't

1204
01:14:06,445 --> 01:14:14,285
Speaker 1: necessarily have to be kicking down an immigration concentration camp

1205
01:14:14,325 --> 01:14:18,685
Speaker 1: that my government has set up on my behalf right now.

1206
01:14:18,725 --> 01:14:21,925
Speaker 1: Maybe there is something else that you know that I

1207
01:14:21,965 --> 01:14:25,205
Speaker 1: can do that will help. That is more along the

1208
01:14:25,245 --> 01:14:31,045
Speaker 1: lines of how sense approaches things, and that may involve

1209
01:14:31,845 --> 01:14:37,045
Speaker 1: steps forward and steps back. It may involve taking losses.

1210
01:14:37,485 --> 01:14:41,165
Speaker 1: It may involve terrible days. It may involve good days

1211
01:14:41,365 --> 01:14:45,165
Speaker 1: of finding ways where you've been able to help. Sometimes

1212
01:14:45,725 --> 01:14:48,525
Speaker 1: you're at the top of the hill, and sometimes you're

1213
01:14:48,565 --> 01:14:50,365
Speaker 1: at the bottom of the hill, and you're going to

1214
01:14:50,405 --> 01:14:52,405
Speaker 1: go up again, and you're going to go down again.

1215
01:14:52,685 --> 01:14:55,045
Speaker 1: It's in the title of the movie. I think in

1216
01:14:55,165 --> 01:14:59,045
Speaker 1: terms of a political film, this movie is more about

1217
01:14:59,085 --> 01:15:02,245
Speaker 1: the long haul, And to me, I read the ending

1218
01:15:02,525 --> 01:15:08,125
Speaker 1: as Bob has recommitted to the long haul, which isn't

1219
01:15:08,165 --> 01:15:15,005
Speaker 1: necessarily twenty four to seven Perfidia burning out in a blaze.

1220
01:15:16,165 --> 01:15:18,725
Speaker 1: It might look like something where there are days you

1221
01:15:18,765 --> 01:15:21,365
Speaker 1: know what you do, hang out on the ca and

1222
01:15:21,405 --> 01:15:23,245
Speaker 1: you scroll through your phone because that's the only thing

1223
01:15:23,285 --> 01:15:26,805
Speaker 1: you're going to keep yourself sane. But you're doing it

1224
01:15:26,845 --> 01:15:28,725
Speaker 1: for a couple of days later, when you're gonna get

1225
01:15:28,765 --> 01:15:31,845
Speaker 1: back in there and help out in whatever way you can.

1226
01:15:32,045 --> 01:15:34,845
Speaker 1: So that was how I read it and why I

1227
01:15:34,885 --> 01:15:37,485
Speaker 1: found it kind of personally encouraging is it was like

1228
01:15:37,565 --> 01:15:43,245
Speaker 1: both both invigorating to like, yep, you know there's work

1229
01:15:43,285 --> 01:15:47,085
Speaker 1: to be done, and also freeing in that you don't

1230
01:15:47,125 --> 01:15:49,365
Speaker 1: have to do it all right now in this moment.

1231
01:15:50,125 --> 01:15:52,645
Speaker 1: And I kind of thought maybe that's where Bob was.

1232
01:15:53,325 --> 01:15:56,965
Speaker 2: Ultimately, this is a movie about a father and a daughter,

1233
01:15:57,365 --> 01:16:01,325
Speaker 2: and it is about their rejoining. It is about their

1234
01:16:01,765 --> 01:16:08,445
Speaker 2: reunion in a sense, their emotional So because of that,

1235
01:16:08,205 --> 01:16:11,765
Speaker 2: that's why Bob and whether or not he becomes an

1236
01:16:11,805 --> 01:16:16,565
Speaker 2: activist again, that part of it, Josh, doesn't affect ultimately

1237
01:16:16,885 --> 01:16:21,485
Speaker 2: how I feel about the film, okay, because it livers

1238
01:16:21,565 --> 01:16:24,525
Speaker 2: on what the film, what the narrative needs to deliver on.

1239
01:16:25,125 --> 01:16:27,564
Speaker 2: What What I'm getting at though, is what you're describing

1240
01:16:27,605 --> 01:16:30,085
Speaker 2: that when you talked about Sense, like you couldn't be

1241
01:16:30,125 --> 01:16:33,564
Speaker 2: more involved than sense. Sense. The only thing that Sense

1242
01:16:33,885 --> 01:16:37,085
Speaker 2: isn't doing is being politically violent, right, so there's a

1243
01:16:37,125 --> 01:16:40,365
Speaker 2: whole there's a whole spectrum here of activism that we're

1244
01:16:40,365 --> 01:16:43,165
Speaker 2: talking about. And I guess, yeah, way I read the

1245
01:16:43,285 --> 01:16:45,165
Speaker 2: end of the film, or at least the way I'm

1246
01:16:45,285 --> 01:16:49,445
Speaker 2: I'm seeing it, And obviously here again, like with Marty's Supreme,

1247
01:16:49,605 --> 01:16:51,605
Speaker 2: I don't know what's going to happen after this. I

1248
01:16:51,645 --> 01:16:54,724
Speaker 2: wish I believed, though, I wish I believe that Bob

1249
01:16:55,485 --> 01:16:57,965
Speaker 2: wasn't going to continue to be a burnout and mostly

1250
01:16:58,045 --> 01:17:02,005
Speaker 2: just lay on his couch and be be encouraging of

1251
01:17:02,045 --> 01:17:04,605
Speaker 2: his daughter. Now, it's great that he's going to be

1252
01:17:04,725 --> 01:17:07,685
Speaker 2: encouraging of his daughter. That is great, and that is

1253
01:17:07,725 --> 01:17:11,445
Speaker 2: a huge step forward, certainly from where he was earlier

1254
01:17:11,485 --> 01:17:14,365
Speaker 2: in the film. But there is a part of me

1255
01:17:15,245 --> 01:17:17,564
Speaker 2: that still think Bob, that still thinks Bob is a

1256
01:17:17,565 --> 01:17:21,165
Speaker 2: bit of a loser for for not realizing, for not

1257
01:17:21,245 --> 01:17:24,684
Speaker 2: realizing that he he could also be more like Sense

1258
01:17:25,125 --> 01:17:28,045
Speaker 2: and he also could be right there with his daughter,

1259
01:17:28,405 --> 01:17:30,805
Speaker 2: and that's actually what the world needs, is not just

1260
01:17:30,845 --> 01:17:33,405
Speaker 2: another burnout laying on his couch.

1261
01:17:34,205 --> 01:17:36,805
Speaker 1: You know what I think? Sense The first time we

1262
01:17:36,845 --> 01:17:38,804
Speaker 1: see him, well, the second time we see him with

1263
01:17:38,805 --> 01:17:42,245
Speaker 1: with Willa in that first jump to sixteen years ahead.

1264
01:17:42,245 --> 01:17:43,885
Speaker 1: But I think Sensey the second time we see him,

1265
01:17:43,885 --> 01:17:46,005
Speaker 1: I think he's just paying his bills, man, like he's.

1266
01:17:45,885 --> 01:17:50,844
Speaker 2: This is what I'm saying, it through your life too.

1267
01:17:50,845 --> 01:17:55,205
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly exactly. So I think Bob has learned that

1268
01:17:55,205 --> 01:17:57,405
Speaker 1: from sense you have to live your life. And I

1269
01:17:57,445 --> 01:18:02,685
Speaker 1: also do think one clue we can take as to

1270
01:18:02,925 --> 01:18:06,564
Speaker 1: how Bob is still engaged to some degree, more engaged

1271
01:18:06,605 --> 01:18:09,725
Speaker 1: than he was before and is not just being apathetic,

1272
01:18:10,845 --> 01:18:14,684
Speaker 1: is how will is relating to him. As you said

1273
01:18:14,725 --> 01:18:17,644
Speaker 1: when you were describing their relationship, a key friction point

1274
01:18:17,645 --> 01:18:19,644
Speaker 1: for her was that he did give up, he had

1275
01:18:19,725 --> 01:18:22,365
Speaker 1: checked out, and I think if he was falling back

1276
01:18:22,405 --> 01:18:27,085
Speaker 1: into that pattern, she would not have been on those

1277
01:18:27,165 --> 01:18:30,684
Speaker 1: terms she is with him when they depart, which are

1278
01:18:31,325 --> 01:18:34,005
Speaker 1: you know, as you say, they're they're aligned, they're they're

1279
01:18:35,045 --> 01:18:39,165
Speaker 1: they're together and and yes, maybe he could go with

1280
01:18:39,205 --> 01:18:41,725
Speaker 1: her to the protest, but you know, maybe that's how

1281
01:18:41,725 --> 01:18:44,325
Speaker 1: she's doing it and and he's gonna do it a

1282
01:18:44,325 --> 01:18:46,445
Speaker 1: different way. I think if he had been, if he

1283
01:18:46,485 --> 01:18:48,965
Speaker 1: had slipped back to where he was before, Willow would

1284
01:18:48,965 --> 01:18:53,924
Speaker 1: not have been relating to him in that scene as

1285
01:18:54,485 --> 01:18:55,564
Speaker 1: she did as she was.

1286
01:18:55,645 --> 01:18:57,925
Speaker 2: But again, of course I'm not. I'm not suggesting that

1287
01:18:57,925 --> 01:19:00,205
Speaker 2: that's what he's doing, is slipping back to where he

1288
01:19:00,325 --> 01:19:02,844
Speaker 2: was before. I'm saying he is a very different person

1289
01:19:03,525 --> 01:19:06,525
Speaker 2: at the end of the film. There's just a step

1290
01:19:06,605 --> 01:19:10,405
Speaker 2: he still hasn't hasn't completely taken, just just a few

1291
01:19:10,445 --> 01:19:15,925
Speaker 2: final final things. There is a moment in the car

1292
01:19:16,485 --> 01:19:18,885
Speaker 2: with sense I think it's when the lights come on,

1293
01:19:19,045 --> 01:19:20,965
Speaker 2: when the when they see the cop where he says,

1294
01:19:21,125 --> 01:19:24,365
Speaker 2: here we go. Rewind it and watch the line when

1295
01:19:24,485 --> 01:19:27,365
Speaker 2: del Toro says here we go. He delivers it just

1296
01:19:27,445 --> 01:19:29,965
Speaker 2: like Fenster in The Usual Suspects. It's the only line

1297
01:19:29,965 --> 01:19:32,605
Speaker 2: where he sounds just like that character and The Usual Suspects.

1298
01:19:32,725 --> 01:19:35,165
Speaker 2: You mentioned the score. I love, I do love the

1299
01:19:35,245 --> 01:19:38,925
Speaker 2: Johnny Greenwood score. Appreciated that, of course even more the

1300
01:19:38,965 --> 01:19:42,644
Speaker 2: second time Josh go back and listen to it. There

1301
01:19:42,725 --> 01:19:44,564
Speaker 2: is a part I rewound it to make sure I

1302
01:19:44,605 --> 01:19:49,445
Speaker 2: wasn't nuts. It starts right around the time when they

1303
01:19:49,445 --> 01:19:54,845
Speaker 2: have the shootout at the Nunnery and leading up to

1304
01:19:55,045 --> 01:19:58,844
Speaker 2: the chase, and through part of that chase. The score

1305
01:19:59,525 --> 01:20:03,125
Speaker 2: Greenwood it has to be intentional. It's just too clear

1306
01:20:03,125 --> 01:20:08,325
Speaker 2: to me. The score just steals directly from the Wizard

1307
01:20:08,365 --> 01:20:11,885
Speaker 2: of Oz. There the great Wizard of Oz sequence where

1308
01:20:12,125 --> 01:20:15,045
Speaker 2: where the witch, you know, but in the in the

1309
01:20:15,165 --> 01:20:18,604
Speaker 2: Kansas sequence, the witch is riding our bike, the dent

1310
01:20:18,765 --> 01:20:22,405
Speaker 2: dent that part Johnny green which just takes that. And

1311
01:20:22,845 --> 01:20:25,845
Speaker 2: but more than that, it's not just that little that

1312
01:20:25,845 --> 01:20:28,885
Speaker 2: little melody. He takes other parts of it, and you

1313
01:20:28,925 --> 01:20:31,085
Speaker 2: can lay them over the top of each other. And

1314
01:20:31,085 --> 01:20:33,285
Speaker 2: and I thought, well, is that just Greenwood? And it

1315
01:20:33,325 --> 01:20:36,285
Speaker 2: probably is? Is that just Greenwood sort of paying homage

1316
01:20:36,325 --> 01:20:38,725
Speaker 2: to a classic score. Why why would they take the

1317
01:20:38,765 --> 01:20:41,564
Speaker 2: Wizard of Oz? You know, what does it have to

1318
01:20:41,565 --> 01:20:43,165
Speaker 2: do with this movie? I don't know that has anything

1319
01:20:43,205 --> 01:20:45,965
Speaker 2: to do with this movie. But I did also notice

1320
01:20:45,965 --> 01:20:50,765
Speaker 2: that right during the part where you're hearing that is

1321
01:20:50,765 --> 01:20:57,045
Speaker 2: is the sequence where where Lockjaw has has Willa in

1322
01:20:57,085 --> 01:21:00,965
Speaker 2: the car and he he tells her that her mother

1323
01:21:01,525 --> 01:21:04,965
Speaker 2: was was the best witch he ever met. Oh yeah,

1324
01:21:05,685 --> 01:21:07,925
Speaker 2: you know. And so I almost wonder if maybe something

1325
01:21:07,925 --> 01:21:12,285
Speaker 2: in the script about a witch triggered triggered that that

1326
01:21:12,285 --> 01:21:16,005
Speaker 2: that whole roller coaster sequence. Of course, a lot of

1327
01:21:16,005 --> 01:21:18,085
Speaker 2: them made of it, and we've talked about how good

1328
01:21:18,085 --> 01:21:19,564
Speaker 2: it is. But I was just trying to pay attention

1329
01:21:19,605 --> 01:21:22,205
Speaker 2: to why is it so good? Like what's so effective

1330
01:21:22,245 --> 01:21:25,485
Speaker 2: about it? And it's the pace of it, and it's

1331
01:21:25,565 --> 01:21:27,925
Speaker 2: it seems to be Josh just the way the camera

1332
01:21:28,925 --> 01:21:31,245
Speaker 2: the camera is at a level where I don't know,

1333
01:21:31,325 --> 01:21:33,525
Speaker 2: it's not so much at the road level, but it's

1334
01:21:33,565 --> 01:21:37,285
Speaker 2: at like dash level or something right, so it feels

1335
01:21:37,325 --> 01:21:41,205
Speaker 2: like it feels like we're just going up right like

1336
01:21:41,645 --> 01:21:45,205
Speaker 2: over just over the top of it and undulating with it.

1337
01:21:45,205 --> 01:21:47,564
Speaker 2: It almost lows you again, the rhythm of it. It

1338
01:21:47,605 --> 01:21:52,165
Speaker 2: almost lulls you into a sense of a sense of

1339
01:21:52,205 --> 01:21:56,844
Speaker 2: complacency that then that undermines the intensity of the sequence.

1340
01:21:57,605 --> 01:22:00,005
Speaker 1: There are a couple shots where it almost feels as

1341
01:22:00,085 --> 01:22:03,965
Speaker 1: if the camera was not on a car necessarily, but

1342
01:22:04,125 --> 01:22:07,965
Speaker 1: was actually on a helicopter flying extremely low and doing

1343
01:22:07,965 --> 01:22:12,725
Speaker 1: those moments because there's a a levitating quality that a

1344
01:22:12,765 --> 01:22:15,884
Speaker 1: car doesn't give you. That's so yeah, it's it's surreal.

1345
01:22:16,125 --> 01:22:18,765
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it really is. And then I meant to

1346
01:22:18,765 --> 01:22:20,445
Speaker 2: go back and really check this to see if this

1347
01:22:20,485 --> 01:22:23,205
Speaker 2: is what he was doing. But in the sequence when

1348
01:22:23,565 --> 01:22:26,965
Speaker 2: he's watching Battle of Algiers and then they they come

1349
01:22:27,005 --> 01:22:29,925
Speaker 2: and invade the house and he escapes, I do love

1350
01:22:29,965 --> 01:22:32,765
Speaker 2: that technique, and you see this in other movies too,

1351
01:22:33,165 --> 01:22:37,085
Speaker 2: where time is alighted where they go from he hasn't

1352
01:22:37,125 --> 01:22:39,724
Speaker 2: gotten off the couch yet, right, But then they cut

1353
01:22:39,725 --> 01:22:43,885
Speaker 2: to the door being blown yea, and he is gone.

1354
01:22:43,965 --> 01:22:46,725
Speaker 2: He is in the tunnel, but it doesn't feel like

1355
01:22:46,845 --> 01:22:49,485
Speaker 2: enough time has passed yet, and so it's just a

1356
01:22:49,525 --> 01:22:51,965
Speaker 2: neat technique to kind of rush time in that way.

1357
01:22:52,165 --> 01:22:54,644
Speaker 2: But the way through that whole part where they're going

1358
01:22:54,645 --> 01:22:58,445
Speaker 2: through the house, I feel like it's the The diegetic

1359
01:22:58,565 --> 01:23:01,365
Speaker 2: sound is the TV music from the Battle of Algiers.

1360
01:23:02,005 --> 01:23:04,604
Speaker 2: I think that's the sound that's playing in the sequence.

1361
01:23:04,685 --> 01:23:08,045
Speaker 2: Actually is from the television. Of course it would be

1362
01:23:08,085 --> 01:23:12,765
Speaker 2: the Battle of Algiers. So yeah, one of our longer conversations,

1363
01:23:13,365 --> 01:23:17,005
Speaker 2: maybe our longest conversation. And I quite frankly am not

1364
01:23:17,245 --> 01:23:19,405
Speaker 2: that shocked that it's about one battle.

1365
01:23:20,565 --> 01:23:22,965
Speaker 1: If you have this Sacred Cow review and our original

1366
01:23:23,005 --> 01:23:26,085
Speaker 1: review together, have we matched the running time of the film.

1367
01:23:26,405 --> 01:23:26,765
Speaker 1: We may be.

1368
01:23:27,845 --> 01:23:32,885
Speaker 2: We're close. We are certainly close. We are so one

1369
01:23:32,885 --> 01:23:36,925
Speaker 2: battle after another. It is currently available to stream on

1370
01:23:37,125 --> 01:23:40,045
Speaker 2: HBO Max and also available vod.

1371
01:23:40,525 --> 01:23:43,085
Speaker 1: We won't spend quite as much time on this, but

1372
01:23:43,125 --> 01:23:45,765
Speaker 1: we do want to take a minute to thank a

1373
01:23:45,805 --> 01:23:50,245
Speaker 1: couple of family plus members. These are Film Spotting family

1374
01:23:50,285 --> 01:23:53,724
Speaker 1: members who support us and allow us to keep doing

1375
01:23:53,765 --> 01:23:57,045
Speaker 1: what we do. So thanks to Clayton Shank in Los

1376
01:23:57,085 --> 01:24:03,365
Speaker 1: Angeles and Tib Winterfield in Shropshire, Shropshire, England. Want to

1377
01:24:03,365 --> 01:24:06,365
Speaker 1: make sure I got that right. Tib Tib is in Shropshire, England.

1378
01:24:06,365 --> 01:24:08,205
Speaker 1: We want to thank them both for their support. You

1379
01:24:08,245 --> 01:24:13,205
Speaker 1: can follow them both on Letterboxed. Clayton is at R. L.

1380
01:24:14,005 --> 01:24:18,245
Speaker 1: Song Lean. Now that's actually familiar because Clayton is a

1381
01:24:18,605 --> 01:24:23,445
Speaker 1: regular and very kind commenter on my Letterboxed reviews. Tib

1382
01:24:23,565 --> 01:24:27,205
Speaker 1: I just followed today, had not been following Tib previously.

1383
01:24:27,525 --> 01:24:31,685
Speaker 1: You can follow Tib at TIB Winterfield all right. They

1384
01:24:31,685 --> 01:24:33,644
Speaker 1: both shared some thoughts about the show with us. Clayton

1385
01:24:33,645 --> 01:24:36,005
Speaker 1: Wrights I landed on Film Spotting in the Maddi era

1386
01:24:36,125 --> 01:24:39,644
Speaker 1: with episode number two sixty nine after aching for thoughtful

1387
01:24:39,645 --> 01:24:44,605
Speaker 1: discussion on Neil Blomcamp's District nine as interlocutors, and this

1388
01:24:44,725 --> 01:24:47,564
Speaker 1: has only increased in richness with Josh's arrival. Your shrewd

1389
01:24:47,605 --> 01:24:51,405
Speaker 1: balancing act between academic insight and giddy brimming reverence over

1390
01:24:51,405 --> 01:24:55,325
Speaker 1: this magic medium we call movies is a joy to behold.

1391
01:24:55,965 --> 01:24:59,405
Speaker 1: So that's how Clayton found us. Thanks for those kind words.

1392
01:24:59,685 --> 01:25:02,885
Speaker 1: Tib found us about ten years ago. I think just

1393
01:25:03,005 --> 01:25:07,045
Speaker 1: via Google. The twenty fifteen actor Madness was what solidified

1394
01:25:07,085 --> 01:25:10,765
Speaker 1: me as a devote of the show. They both have

1395
01:25:10,845 --> 01:25:15,165
Speaker 1: favorite segments. Clayton said, anytime Midnight Run is given airtime,

1396
01:25:15,365 --> 01:25:18,724
Speaker 1: it's a masterpiece. I guess we got to give Midnight

1397
01:25:18,805 --> 01:25:21,725
Speaker 1: Run its own segment at this point for Clayton, Tim said,

1398
01:25:21,765 --> 01:25:23,965
Speaker 1: it's still the Madness. I look forward to it every year.

1399
01:25:24,005 --> 01:25:26,925
Speaker 1: That are Golden Brick, which has brought so many good

1400
01:25:27,085 --> 01:25:27,805
Speaker 1: films to me.

1401
01:25:28,445 --> 01:25:30,925
Speaker 2: Hey, Josh, just real quick, do you do not remember

1402
01:25:30,965 --> 01:25:33,245
Speaker 2: that we did give Midnight Run its own segment. I'm

1403
01:25:33,245 --> 01:25:35,005
Speaker 2: pretty sure we gave it a sacred cow.

1404
01:25:35,685 --> 01:25:38,005
Speaker 1: We gave it a sacred cow. I meant Clayton would

1405
01:25:38,085 --> 01:25:42,285
Speaker 1: like a recurring segment. Okay, I think you would like

1406
01:25:42,725 --> 01:25:45,965
Speaker 1: just a bit of appreciation every episode.

1407
01:25:46,005 --> 01:25:47,965
Speaker 2: Maybe, Okay, I see what you're saying.

1408
01:25:48,045 --> 01:25:50,965
Speaker 1: Yeah, we asked if there were any reviews we got wrong.

1409
01:25:51,045 --> 01:25:54,445
Speaker 1: Clayton said, well, you know, Clayton's doesn't want to offend anybody,

1410
01:25:54,485 --> 01:25:57,885
Speaker 1: so he says that Adam got wrong. Woof of Wall

1411
01:25:57,885 --> 01:26:02,165
Speaker 1: Street and I got wrong Interstellar Okay, okay. As for Tib,

1412
01:26:02,685 --> 01:26:05,045
Speaker 1: none that leap out at me. But Adam is very

1413
01:26:05,045 --> 01:26:07,405
Speaker 1: clearly wrong about a lifeless ordinary.

1414
01:26:08,205 --> 01:26:08,684
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1415
01:26:08,725 --> 01:26:12,285
Speaker 1: Wow, you're strong, some strong feelings about a lifeless ordinary, Adam.

1416
01:26:12,685 --> 01:26:15,684
Speaker 2: Sometimes I see these and if they take a shot

1417
01:26:15,725 --> 01:26:19,045
Speaker 2: at me, it does hurt me. It wounds me, you know,

1418
01:26:19,125 --> 01:26:21,885
Speaker 2: for at least an hour or so. Josh, I'm gonna

1419
01:26:22,045 --> 01:26:25,285
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lose any sleep over this life doesn't ordinary, No,

1420
01:26:25,405 --> 01:26:25,845
Speaker 2: not at all.

1421
01:26:26,405 --> 01:26:29,085
Speaker 1: Great, great Danny Boyle film, all right, the movies they

1422
01:26:29,125 --> 01:26:32,325
Speaker 1: credit with becoming centophiles. For Clayton, American psycho Bail is

1423
01:26:32,405 --> 01:26:35,644
Speaker 1: tapping into something here that I think is eternal. Tib

1424
01:26:35,685 --> 01:26:40,445
Speaker 1: shared Clerks Murder is eternal. Favorite books about movies or

1425
01:26:40,525 --> 01:26:45,045
Speaker 1: movie making. Film directing, shot by shot, visualizing from concept

1426
01:26:45,045 --> 01:26:46,805
Speaker 1: to screen by Steve D.

1427
01:26:47,325 --> 01:26:47,684
Speaker 2: Katz.

1428
01:26:47,725 --> 01:26:50,604
Speaker 1: That one comes from Clayton. TIB suggested how I made

1429
01:26:50,605 --> 01:26:52,805
Speaker 1: a hundred movies in Hollywood had never lost a dime?

1430
01:26:53,325 --> 01:26:54,445
Speaker 1: That one by Roger Corman.

1431
01:26:55,005 --> 01:26:57,805
Speaker 2: Who else could it be by? We thank Clayton and

1432
01:26:57,845 --> 01:27:00,285
Speaker 2: TIB for being family members and for all of those

1433
01:27:00,365 --> 01:27:02,645
Speaker 2: years of listening. In addition to keeping us doing what

1434
01:27:02,685 --> 01:27:04,725
Speaker 2: we're doing. Membership does come with perks. You get to

1435
01:27:04,765 --> 01:27:07,165
Speaker 2: listen early in ad free, you get our weekly newsletter.

1436
01:27:07,205 --> 01:27:09,684
Speaker 2: You get exclusive opportunities like being part of our Film

1437
01:27:09,725 --> 01:27:13,245
Speaker 2: Spotting Family discord. You also get monthly bonus shows like

1438
01:27:13,645 --> 01:27:17,085
Speaker 2: you could hear Sam this week talk about another Paul

1439
01:27:17,125 --> 01:27:19,405
Speaker 2: Thomas Anderson film. Well, we talked about it too, but

1440
01:27:19,685 --> 01:27:26,525
Speaker 2: only he really tried to argue very intensely, semi intensely

1441
01:27:26,525 --> 01:27:28,805
Speaker 2: that it's a bad movie. That was his take. So

1442
01:27:29,045 --> 01:27:30,845
Speaker 2: you can hear that if you're a film Spotting family.

1443
01:27:31,045 --> 01:27:32,485
Speaker 1: Did he so far as to say bad?

1444
01:27:32,565 --> 01:27:35,685
Speaker 2: I defended it? Yeah, he's he. I'm pretty sure he

1445
01:27:35,765 --> 01:27:37,285
Speaker 2: used that word, Josh, did he?

1446
01:27:37,765 --> 01:27:37,965
Speaker 1: Man?

1447
01:27:38,085 --> 01:27:42,365
Speaker 2: Yeah? Okay, Yeah, So that's that's out now, and I'm

1448
01:27:42,365 --> 01:27:45,685
Speaker 2: not sure. I think February is blind Spotting time. So

1449
01:27:45,765 --> 01:27:47,805
Speaker 2: we'll pick a movie. I could be I could be wrong,

1450
01:27:47,845 --> 01:27:49,805
Speaker 2: but I think it's where we pick a movie that

1451
01:27:50,005 --> 01:27:52,885
Speaker 2: all three of us haven't seen. Usually all three of

1452
01:27:52,925 --> 01:27:55,045
Speaker 2: us haven't seen, and we try to watch that. We'll

1453
01:27:55,045 --> 01:27:57,365
Speaker 2: probably try to pick something that connects to film spotting

1454
01:27:57,405 --> 01:28:01,885
Speaker 2: madness best to the forties and March we'll have a

1455
01:28:02,485 --> 01:28:05,445
Speaker 2: trivia Spotting edition coming up, so all sorts of fun

1456
01:28:06,205 --> 01:28:08,405
Speaker 2: that you could have as a Film Spotting Family member,

1457
01:28:08,525 --> 01:28:11,085
Speaker 2: and you can learn more about joining the family at

1458
01:28:11,085 --> 01:28:14,725
Speaker 2: Filmspottingfamily dot com. You can also help the show by

1459
01:28:15,325 --> 01:28:19,005
Speaker 2: rating or reviewing us at Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It

1460
01:28:19,045 --> 01:28:22,365
Speaker 2: really does help us reach new listeners. The ten films

1461
01:28:22,405 --> 01:28:24,245
Speaker 2: nominated for Best.

1462
01:28:23,885 --> 01:28:30,165
Speaker 1: Picture Area and Ghanny and Andrew Lowe, Yourgos Lanthemos, Emma

1463
01:28:30,205 --> 01:28:31,605
Speaker 1: Stone and Lars.

1464
01:28:31,325 --> 01:28:37,405
Speaker 2: Knutes and producers F One, Chad Owmen, Brad Pitt. I

1465
01:28:37,445 --> 01:28:42,245
Speaker 2: definitely was not up watching the Oscar nominations broadcast live.

1466
01:28:42,285 --> 01:28:44,685
Speaker 2: I suppose, Josh, you could have, or it would have

1467
01:28:44,725 --> 01:28:48,564
Speaker 2: been more reasonable for you with the time zone shift.

1468
01:28:48,805 --> 01:28:53,885
Speaker 2: What were you thinking when you heard the Best Picture

1469
01:28:54,285 --> 01:29:00,085
Speaker 2: nominees announce any swift thoughts on Bogonia? And I suppose

1470
01:29:00,245 --> 01:29:03,445
Speaker 2: F one being Best Picture nominees. I don't think you've

1471
01:29:03,445 --> 01:29:04,805
Speaker 2: even seen F one yet, have you?

1472
01:29:05,045 --> 01:29:09,725
Speaker 1: Oh? Oh, Adam, are we gonna have the F one conversation?

1473
01:29:10,005 --> 01:29:13,085
Speaker 1: Because sure no, I didn't. I didn't watch the nominations.

1474
01:29:14,205 --> 01:29:17,644
Speaker 1: You know, despite the time zone being helpful here in Scotland,

1475
01:29:18,365 --> 01:29:20,684
Speaker 1: I have watched F one. It wasn't out of due

1476
01:29:20,725 --> 01:29:24,405
Speaker 1: de gence. But Debbie, who you know we know from

1477
01:29:24,445 --> 01:29:27,165
Speaker 1: our Fast and Furious Marathon, is the true Fast and

1478
01:29:27,205 --> 01:29:30,205
Speaker 1: Furious fan in our gear kind of the gearhead. Let's

1479
01:29:30,245 --> 01:29:33,085
Speaker 1: just go with the gearhead has been nudging me to

1480
01:29:33,165 --> 01:29:35,765
Speaker 1: watch F one on and off for a while now,

1481
01:29:35,845 --> 01:29:40,325
Speaker 1: so I thought, okay, oh, I wish I had. You

1482
01:29:40,325 --> 01:29:42,564
Speaker 1: know what, it'll make it easy when we do our

1483
01:29:42,645 --> 01:29:46,325
Speaker 1: Oscar prediction show, and we like to we like to

1484
01:29:46,405 --> 01:29:48,764
Speaker 1: knock you know, when we choose who would we nominate

1485
01:29:48,765 --> 01:29:51,165
Speaker 1: in categories, and then we always have to knock someone out.

1486
01:29:51,685 --> 01:29:53,325
Speaker 1: At least I've got at least I've got a clear

1487
01:29:53,365 --> 01:29:56,365
Speaker 1: knockout for all the categories. For me, it was a

1488
01:29:56,405 --> 01:29:56,965
Speaker 1: rough watch.

1489
01:29:57,525 --> 01:30:01,085
Speaker 2: Well, I I didn't think F one was as rough

1490
01:30:01,125 --> 01:30:03,085
Speaker 2: a watch as you. I wouldn't even call it a

1491
01:30:03,205 --> 01:30:07,285
Speaker 2: rough watch. But was I shocked? Well, shock isn't even

1492
01:30:07,285 --> 01:30:09,645
Speaker 2: the right word, because I know some people, some pundits,

1493
01:30:09,685 --> 01:30:12,564
Speaker 2: had predicted that it might get a nomination. Was I

1494
01:30:12,605 --> 01:30:16,045
Speaker 2: still surprised? Yes, I was surprised. Do I think it

1495
01:30:16,045 --> 01:30:18,805
Speaker 2: should have gotten the Best Picture nomination? No, of course

1496
01:30:18,845 --> 01:30:21,644
Speaker 2: I don't think it should have received a Best Picture nomination.

1497
01:30:21,805 --> 01:30:25,045
Speaker 1: It's cause we ask what was what's the because I

1498
01:30:25,045 --> 01:30:29,325
Speaker 1: haven't looked into this the pundits like what was the thinking, Like, basically,

1499
01:30:29,325 --> 01:30:31,125
Speaker 1: how did this happen? Is it just because it was

1500
01:30:31,205 --> 01:30:33,165
Speaker 1: a big hit? Is it because yeah?

1501
01:30:33,205 --> 01:30:37,285
Speaker 2: There's ore there does seem to be recently at least

1502
01:30:37,365 --> 01:30:43,485
Speaker 2: one big you know, populous action, all sorts of screen

1503
01:30:44,205 --> 01:30:49,365
Speaker 2: below the line folks, you know, or awards for you know,

1504
01:30:49,405 --> 01:30:52,845
Speaker 2: the editing and some of those more technical achievements. It's

1505
01:30:52,885 --> 01:30:55,205
Speaker 2: driven by that as well. That seems to usually be

1506
01:30:55,245 --> 01:30:58,245
Speaker 2: in the Best Picture mix. So here, I'm not a

1507
01:30:58,285 --> 01:31:01,965
Speaker 2: shock that F one was one of those nominees, but

1508
01:31:02,965 --> 01:31:06,445
Speaker 2: I was still surprised ultimately to see it in there.

1509
01:31:06,805 --> 01:31:10,645
Speaker 2: Now there are at least six films of those nominees

1510
01:31:10,725 --> 01:31:13,885
Speaker 2: that I was very excited to see. And we are

1511
01:31:13,925 --> 01:31:17,525
Speaker 2: going to talk more about the Oscars back, or I

1512
01:31:17,525 --> 01:31:23,604
Speaker 2: should say later when we do our Oscars special March sixth,

1513
01:31:23,725 --> 01:31:26,445
Speaker 2: I think is when we have that scheduled for That

1514
01:31:26,685 --> 01:31:30,485
Speaker 2: is the show that we do with Michael Phillips every year.

1515
01:31:30,565 --> 01:31:33,684
Speaker 2: We do plan to have him back on who will win,

1516
01:31:33,765 --> 01:31:36,045
Speaker 2: who should win, and who should have been nominated. The

1517
01:31:36,045 --> 01:31:41,245
Speaker 2: Oscars are on Sunday, March fifteenth, but any other thoughts.

1518
01:31:41,565 --> 01:31:44,445
Speaker 2: Did you have any other immediate reactions, Josh, anything you

1519
01:31:44,485 --> 01:31:47,964
Speaker 2: think is worth sharing as you perused the list of nominees.

1520
01:31:48,325 --> 01:31:50,644
Speaker 1: I mean mostly there's just a couple categories I want

1521
01:31:50,645 --> 01:31:54,365
Speaker 1: to touch on quickly here, But yeah, in general, I'm

1522
01:31:54,445 --> 01:31:57,965
Speaker 1: kind of sad overall encouraged by the nominations and sad

1523
01:31:58,005 --> 01:31:59,845
Speaker 1: I won't be able to watch it live. I know

1524
01:32:00,285 --> 01:32:03,125
Speaker 1: it's not always a priority for you, Adam, but this

1525
01:32:03,165 --> 01:32:05,445
Speaker 1: will be the first time in years with being here

1526
01:32:05,885 --> 01:32:07,685
Speaker 1: in Scotland, so I'm going to have to catch up

1527
01:32:07,725 --> 01:32:10,965
Speaker 1: with all the news afterwards and the other thing that,

1528
01:32:11,285 --> 01:32:13,325
Speaker 1: you know. It's a little bit maybe more of a

1529
01:32:13,365 --> 01:32:16,085
Speaker 1: complaint even though I was, you know, mildly positive on

1530
01:32:16,165 --> 01:32:19,765
Speaker 1: the film, but clearly the Academy not as worn out

1531
01:32:19,965 --> 01:32:23,405
Speaker 1: by the ongoing your go slanty most Amastone collaboration, as

1532
01:32:23,445 --> 01:32:27,245
Speaker 1: I think a lot of critics at least or moviegoers

1533
01:32:27,325 --> 01:32:30,205
Speaker 1: are that I know and speak to, just given the

1534
01:32:30,245 --> 01:32:32,925
Speaker 1: nominations for her and Pogonia. Again, I like the film,

1535
01:32:33,445 --> 01:32:36,845
Speaker 1: but guys, there's other movies out there, there's other filmmakers.

1536
01:32:37,725 --> 01:32:40,405
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I liked it a little bit less than you,

1537
01:32:40,565 --> 01:32:43,564
Speaker 2: and so it was a little bit disappointing. I suppose

1538
01:32:43,645 --> 01:32:46,925
Speaker 2: to see it get the love that it did. Though

1539
01:32:47,085 --> 01:32:49,845
Speaker 2: I do like Emma Stone's performance, and I'm always fond

1540
01:32:49,925 --> 01:32:53,845
Speaker 2: of her as an actress. I hate it when our

1541
01:32:53,885 --> 01:32:58,285
Speaker 2: producer Sam puts out our newsletter and sometimes he just

1542
01:32:58,405 --> 01:33:00,684
Speaker 2: says all the things I was probably going to say. Anyway,

1543
01:33:01,245 --> 01:33:03,885
Speaker 2: I don't have any hot take reactions, like I thought,

1544
01:33:03,925 --> 01:33:06,445
Speaker 2: for the most part, the Academy did pretty well with

1545
01:33:06,605 --> 01:33:10,445
Speaker 2: these nominations, and he did single out one in particular.

1546
01:33:10,685 --> 01:33:13,125
Speaker 2: You know, he mentioned Kate Hudson for song Sung Blue.

1547
01:33:13,485 --> 01:33:16,125
Speaker 2: You know, I've seen the movie. I like the movie,

1548
01:33:16,405 --> 01:33:19,085
Speaker 2: and I like her in it. So there are other

1549
01:33:19,525 --> 01:33:21,645
Speaker 2: Best Actress performances that I I liked and that I

1550
01:33:21,685 --> 01:33:23,845
Speaker 2: had above her this year. But I don't hate the

1551
01:33:23,925 --> 01:33:28,805
Speaker 2: nomination at all. And it's much easier to say take

1552
01:33:28,845 --> 01:33:31,965
Speaker 2: her out, maybe if you haven't seen the movie, or

1553
01:33:32,005 --> 01:33:33,805
Speaker 2: if you have certain thoughts about the movie. But the

1554
01:33:33,885 --> 01:33:37,485
Speaker 2: performance I think is really good. So I'm not mad

1555
01:33:37,685 --> 01:33:40,805
Speaker 2: at that nomination at all. I'm not mad about a

1556
01:33:40,845 --> 01:33:42,564
Speaker 2: lot of the nominations, Josh, Like I said, I think

1557
01:33:42,605 --> 01:33:45,365
Speaker 2: it's weird. I suppose that no other choice. One of

1558
01:33:45,405 --> 01:33:47,564
Speaker 2: my top five films of the Year from Park Chanook

1559
01:33:47,645 --> 01:33:51,684
Speaker 2: didn't get anything. I'm a little bit surprised, I suppose,

1560
01:33:51,805 --> 01:33:54,085
Speaker 2: and here I'm just all in the International Feature category,

1561
01:33:54,205 --> 01:33:56,885
Speaker 2: a little surprised that my number one film of the year,

1562
01:33:56,925 --> 01:34:00,085
Speaker 2: It Was Just an Accident, didn't get a Best Picture

1563
01:34:00,125 --> 01:34:03,845
Speaker 2: nomination because it actually was getting predicted in that category

1564
01:34:04,165 --> 01:34:06,644
Speaker 2: by a lot of the experts. It did get two

1565
01:34:06,765 --> 01:34:10,725
Speaker 2: nominations for Best International Feature and for Best Original Screenplay.

1566
01:34:11,205 --> 01:34:14,925
Speaker 2: Some think it might win that category the Best International Feature,

1567
01:34:14,965 --> 01:34:19,644
Speaker 2: even though Sentimental Value is nominated and The Secret Agent

1568
01:34:19,805 --> 01:34:22,965
Speaker 2: is nominated, but they're in the Best Picture category. So

1569
01:34:23,485 --> 01:34:25,565
Speaker 2: in theory that shouldn't make any sense. But that is

1570
01:34:25,645 --> 01:34:29,245
Speaker 2: exactly why it might make sense. That's why It Was

1571
01:34:29,365 --> 01:34:32,005
Speaker 2: Just An Accident might get the award in that category,

1572
01:34:32,085 --> 01:34:35,845
Speaker 2: because those got those got their award by getting the

1573
01:34:35,885 --> 01:34:39,805
Speaker 2: Best Picture nomination. Depends how you look at it, so

1574
01:34:40,645 --> 01:34:43,525
Speaker 2: we'll see. Overall, cent Amount of Value was one of

1575
01:34:43,605 --> 01:34:45,205
Speaker 2: my favorite films of the year. So for it to

1576
01:34:45,245 --> 01:34:48,205
Speaker 2: get I think eight was it eight nominations for that film,

1577
01:34:48,325 --> 01:34:50,045
Speaker 2: Maybe I need to fact check that, but it was

1578
01:34:50,125 --> 01:34:53,405
Speaker 2: one of the top top nominees our family, certainly to

1579
01:34:53,445 --> 01:34:57,045
Speaker 2: see one battle after another to get thirteen and Sinners

1580
01:34:57,165 --> 01:34:58,605
Speaker 2: was my number seven film of the year, but for

1581
01:34:58,805 --> 01:35:00,644
Speaker 2: that movie to be the one that set the record

1582
01:35:00,725 --> 01:35:03,445
Speaker 2: with sixteen is a great story and deserve it.

1583
01:35:03,565 --> 01:35:06,325
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think again no surprise that Sinners

1584
01:35:06,365 --> 01:35:09,925
Speaker 1: and One Battle after Another are the headliners. But still,

1585
01:35:10,645 --> 01:35:16,365
Speaker 1: you know, exciting to have two lead Oscar candidates that

1586
01:35:16,485 --> 01:35:18,565
Speaker 1: are that good. I don't know that I feel that

1587
01:35:18,645 --> 01:35:21,685
Speaker 1: way every year, So that's hugely encouraging. Glad you called

1588
01:35:21,685 --> 01:35:24,604
Speaker 1: out Sam's newsletter because he did do a great job

1589
01:35:24,725 --> 01:35:28,725
Speaker 1: of giving some an Oscar nom recap. Again, that comes

1590
01:35:28,765 --> 01:35:30,725
Speaker 1: to film spotting family members, so if you're not getting those,

1591
01:35:30,805 --> 01:35:35,005
Speaker 1: join the family. And you mentioned sentimental value, and that

1592
01:35:35,485 --> 01:35:37,605
Speaker 1: was one I wanted to bring up in relation to

1593
01:35:37,845 --> 01:35:42,285
Speaker 1: the Supporting Actress category. As listeners know by now from

1594
01:35:42,485 --> 01:35:45,005
Speaker 1: hearing us talk about One Battle after Another, we're both

1595
01:35:45,365 --> 01:35:48,085
Speaker 1: very thrilled that Tiana Taylor is there. I was afraid

1596
01:35:48,165 --> 01:35:51,165
Speaker 1: she might might still get overlooked for One Battle. But

1597
01:35:51,525 --> 01:35:53,965
Speaker 1: also really encouraging because this is a film I have

1598
01:35:54,125 --> 01:35:55,965
Speaker 1: had a chance to catch up with since our year

1599
01:35:56,085 --> 01:36:00,885
Speaker 1: end show. Sentimental value is that among its many awards

1600
01:36:01,245 --> 01:36:05,365
Speaker 1: is a Supporting Actress nom for ips daughter Lilios, who

1601
01:36:05,605 --> 01:36:11,925
Speaker 1: plays the younger daughter of Stellan Skarsgard's filmmaker. And not

1602
01:36:12,125 --> 01:36:16,245
Speaker 1: only did I think she was so crucial to the

1603
01:36:17,005 --> 01:36:22,925
Speaker 1: narrative the overall familial portrait that Treer is giving us there,

1604
01:36:23,525 --> 01:36:30,925
Speaker 1: but man, Lilios delivers a just a piercing, quiet performance

1605
01:36:31,085 --> 01:36:35,685
Speaker 1: that you could easily go through that film and not

1606
01:36:36,005 --> 01:36:41,805
Speaker 1: necessarily notice the amount of restraint she shows, even though

1607
01:36:42,325 --> 01:36:45,365
Speaker 1: her function in the narrative is so crucial. Is a

1608
01:36:45,605 --> 01:36:49,604
Speaker 1: beautifully delicate balancing act that she pulls off. So really

1609
01:36:49,685 --> 01:36:52,045
Speaker 1: glad to see that. The Academy, I mean, that's you know,

1610
01:36:52,165 --> 01:36:54,764
Speaker 1: like we like to be cynical about who Academy voters

1611
01:36:54,765 --> 01:36:56,485
Speaker 1: are and what they're looking for, but this is an

1612
01:36:56,525 --> 01:37:00,325
Speaker 1: instance of like, oh, they're paying really close attention if

1613
01:37:00,405 --> 01:37:02,245
Speaker 1: they nominate someone like this.

1614
01:37:03,125 --> 01:37:05,725
Speaker 2: This is the problem. Is that the show that we

1615
01:37:05,885 --> 01:37:10,565
Speaker 2: do later, when we talk about who should win, and

1616
01:37:10,965 --> 01:37:12,884
Speaker 2: especially when we talk about who should have been nominated,

1617
01:37:13,525 --> 01:37:15,325
Speaker 2: it was a lot more fun when they used to

1618
01:37:15,405 --> 01:37:19,245
Speaker 2: make worse choices. But they're making better choices now, Like

1619
01:37:19,365 --> 01:37:23,764
Speaker 2: the Academy the membership, they're getting savvier and they're getting

1620
01:37:23,805 --> 01:37:26,604
Speaker 2: better at it. And I suppose that's a good thing, Josh,

1621
01:37:26,725 --> 01:37:28,525
Speaker 2: but it's it's bad for content.

1622
01:37:28,925 --> 01:37:31,325
Speaker 1: So you're telling me F one didn't get a Best

1623
01:37:31,325 --> 01:37:32,644
Speaker 1: Supporting Actress nomination.

1624
01:37:33,605 --> 01:37:36,604
Speaker 2: No, though you know, Carrie Conton's in it and she's

1625
01:37:36,645 --> 01:37:37,125
Speaker 2: pretty good.

1626
01:37:37,485 --> 01:37:37,965
Speaker 1: She's okay.

1627
01:37:38,805 --> 01:37:40,445
Speaker 2: You thought it was a rough watch, though, so I

1628
01:37:40,525 --> 01:37:43,365
Speaker 2: suppose you didn't think that. I wouldn't have nominated her

1629
01:37:43,445 --> 01:37:46,925
Speaker 2: for it either though. Nine Academy Award nominations is what

1630
01:37:47,085 --> 01:37:50,445
Speaker 2: Google's AI overview is telling me anyway for sentimental value,

1631
01:37:50,525 --> 01:37:51,605
Speaker 2: so trust that.

1632
01:37:52,005 --> 01:37:54,285
Speaker 1: Yeah, at your parent that means it's probably negative eight.

1633
01:37:54,645 --> 01:37:55,005
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1634
01:37:55,845 --> 01:37:58,925
Speaker 2: Again, you can look for that Oscar special coming up

1635
01:37:59,045 --> 01:37:59,965
Speaker 2: on March sixth.

1636
01:38:00,645 --> 01:38:03,525
Speaker 1: One more note I want to make about the nominations

1637
01:38:03,565 --> 01:38:05,405
Speaker 1: at on just because this is a film for Chicago

1638
01:38:05,605 --> 01:38:08,245
Speaker 1: area listeners that's opening up the music box this weekend,

1639
01:38:08,365 --> 01:38:11,285
Speaker 1: and it is Arco in the Animated Feature Film category,

1640
01:38:11,725 --> 01:38:15,885
Speaker 1: a French feature definitely worth a look. I did catch

1641
01:38:16,005 --> 01:38:19,525
Speaker 1: up with this in the year end rush, and essentially

1642
01:38:19,685 --> 01:38:23,245
Speaker 1: it's a story that involves too far off futures I'll

1643
01:38:23,285 --> 01:38:26,925
Speaker 1: say they collide. Basically, a boy runs away from home

1644
01:38:27,165 --> 01:38:30,564
Speaker 1: and into the past via time travel. He ends up

1645
01:38:30,605 --> 01:38:34,205
Speaker 1: in this ecologically fraught society. Now, both of these timeframes

1646
01:38:34,805 --> 01:38:37,845
Speaker 1: are ahead of ours. Okay. One of the animators here

1647
01:38:37,885 --> 01:38:42,564
Speaker 1: also worked on nineteen seventy three's Fantastic Planet, so if

1648
01:38:42,685 --> 01:38:45,644
Speaker 1: you have seen that film, you will have a good

1649
01:38:45,685 --> 01:38:48,645
Speaker 1: sense of what the design is here in Arco. But

1650
01:38:48,765 --> 01:38:50,525
Speaker 1: there is also a touch of me az Aki in

1651
01:38:50,565 --> 01:38:54,005
Speaker 1: its balance of cynicism and hopefulness when it comes to

1652
01:38:54,085 --> 01:38:58,325
Speaker 1: the environment. So yeah, if the Arco's playing in your

1653
01:38:58,765 --> 01:39:01,045
Speaker 1: town or near you, as it is in Chicago at

1654
01:39:01,045 --> 01:39:04,525
Speaker 1: the Music Paks this weekend, I would encourage oscar interested

1655
01:39:04,765 --> 01:39:07,045
Speaker 1: or animation interested folks to check it out.

1656
01:39:07,245 --> 01:39:09,325
Speaker 2: It was one we didn't get to in time, but

1657
01:39:09,445 --> 01:39:12,645
Speaker 2: I know some of our listeners specifically, I think some

1658
01:39:12,725 --> 01:39:15,485
Speaker 2: members of our Film Spotting Advisory Board had recommended that

1659
01:39:15,685 --> 01:39:19,005
Speaker 2: Josh for the film spotting Golden Brick. Sounds like maybe

1660
01:39:19,005 --> 01:39:21,325
Speaker 2: since I've been a nominee for you, had you seen

1661
01:39:21,365 --> 01:39:21,925
Speaker 2: it in time?

1662
01:39:22,445 --> 01:39:23,804
Speaker 1: Possibly? Okay.

1663
01:39:24,205 --> 01:39:26,805
Speaker 2: Next week on the show, we will pay tribute to

1664
01:39:27,005 --> 01:39:30,845
Speaker 2: Diane Keaton with our top five Diane Keaton scenes, and

1665
01:39:31,125 --> 01:39:34,045
Speaker 2: also on that show, we will share the results from

1666
01:39:34,085 --> 01:39:37,885
Speaker 2: our current Film Spotting poll, which asks you to choose

1667
01:39:38,285 --> 01:39:43,485
Speaker 2: one and only one Diane Keaton character and Josh, this

1668
01:39:43,565 --> 01:39:47,045
Speaker 2: will be bad radio. But what am I doing right now?

1669
01:39:48,125 --> 01:39:49,125
Speaker 1: You're shaking your head.

1670
01:39:49,645 --> 01:39:52,925
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not just it's not just smh like the

1671
01:39:53,005 --> 01:39:57,165
Speaker 2: kids say. I'm actually shaking my head at our listeners

1672
01:39:58,005 --> 01:40:04,405
Speaker 2: for how this poll is currently coming out despite my protestations.

1673
01:40:04,645 --> 01:40:08,205
Speaker 2: Last week, I explained that I really thought going with

1674
01:40:08,325 --> 01:40:11,205
Speaker 2: Kay Adams from The Godfather is the best Diane Keaton character.

1675
01:40:11,325 --> 01:40:13,685
Speaker 2: Sam backs me, I mean Sam and I, I mean,

1676
01:40:14,205 --> 01:40:16,605
Speaker 2: we just feel really strongly about this thought it was

1677
01:40:16,605 --> 01:40:20,205
Speaker 2: a mistake. Wow, Kay Adams is kind of running away

1678
01:40:20,325 --> 01:40:23,045
Speaker 2: with this, So look forward to the feedback next week

1679
01:40:23,085 --> 01:40:27,245
Speaker 2: on the show explaining why Kay is in fact the

1680
01:40:27,325 --> 01:40:29,485
Speaker 2: best Diane Keaton character.

1681
01:40:30,085 --> 01:40:32,005
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, Comrade Adam, you.

1682
01:40:32,045 --> 01:40:33,925
Speaker 2: Can vote in that pole and leave a comment that

1683
01:40:33,965 --> 01:40:36,045
Speaker 2: has a really nice ring to it. Actually, that sounds

1684
01:40:36,685 --> 01:40:39,885
Speaker 2: sound sounds strong. I think you can vote in that

1685
01:40:39,965 --> 01:40:42,765
Speaker 2: poll and leave a comment at filmspotting dot net.

1686
01:40:44,565 --> 01:40:47,565
Speaker 1: Speaking of still looking back on twenty twenty five with

1687
01:40:47,645 --> 01:40:50,604
Speaker 1: the Oscars, that is what they're doing at the Next

1688
01:40:50,765 --> 01:40:53,685
Speaker 1: Picture Show. Our sister podcast right now out is their

1689
01:40:53,765 --> 01:40:56,885
Speaker 1: best of twenty twenty five episodes, so you get to

1690
01:40:56,925 --> 01:41:01,765
Speaker 1: hear the top ten lists of Keith, Tasha and Scott.

1691
01:41:02,405 --> 01:41:04,445
Speaker 1: Check that out. New episodes of the Next Picture Show

1692
01:41:04,525 --> 01:41:06,365
Speaker 1: drop every Tuesday and you can find them wherever you

1693
01:41:06,405 --> 01:41:09,285
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Okay, it's time now for Mascer Theater,

1694
01:41:09,365 --> 01:41:11,885
Speaker 1: where Adam and I perform a scene and you get

1695
01:41:11,925 --> 01:41:14,405
Speaker 1: a chance to win a film spotting prize. Last time

1696
01:41:14,525 --> 01:41:19,565
Speaker 1: we mascred this scene. Ah, you're drinking man, Reverend. It

1697
01:41:19,645 --> 01:41:21,845
Speaker 1: doesn't help. I suppose not.

1698
01:41:26,005 --> 01:41:29,724
Speaker 2: Can God forgive us for what we've done to this world?

1699
01:41:35,845 --> 01:41:41,005
Speaker 1: Who can know the mind of God? But we can choose.

1700
01:41:43,685 --> 01:41:53,765
Speaker 2: A righteous life. Believe forgiveness, grace covers us all.

1701
01:41:56,725 --> 01:42:00,445
Speaker 1: I believe that. That was Ethan Hawk with Philip Ettinger

1702
01:42:00,605 --> 01:42:04,125
Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen's First Reformed, written and directed by Paul Schrader.

1703
01:42:04,605 --> 01:42:07,005
Speaker 1: That massacre was part of our twenty twenty five Rap

1704
01:42:07,085 --> 01:42:09,245
Speaker 1: Party show when we shared our scenes of the year.

1705
01:42:09,285 --> 01:42:11,805
Speaker 1: We also announced the winner of the twenty twenty five

1706
01:42:11,925 --> 01:42:15,684
Speaker 1: Golden Brick Award. There is always a tie into mascar Theater.

1707
01:42:15,845 --> 01:42:20,205
Speaker 1: So why that scene from First Reformed? We had a

1708
01:42:20,245 --> 01:42:22,365
Speaker 1: few in mind, Adam, I think this was.

1709
01:42:23,805 --> 01:42:26,804
Speaker 2: The Yeah, okay, yeah, we had we had our reasons.

1710
01:42:27,125 --> 01:42:30,805
Speaker 2: Here's Cyrus Zomanian as a fellow Ethan Hawk fan. I

1711
01:42:30,885 --> 01:42:33,965
Speaker 2: suspected the scene would include him based on the first hint,

1712
01:42:34,205 --> 01:42:36,085
Speaker 2: but as soon as the word reverend was mentioned, I

1713
01:42:36,165 --> 01:42:38,405
Speaker 2: knew without a doubt this was First Reformed, one of

1714
01:42:38,445 --> 01:42:40,605
Speaker 2: the first movies I can recall blowing my mind in

1715
01:42:40,725 --> 01:42:43,205
Speaker 2: its specific way. This is a favorite movie of mine

1716
01:42:43,205 --> 01:42:46,445
Speaker 2: and a favorite performance. I'll leave the identification of tenuous

1717
01:42:46,485 --> 01:42:50,325
Speaker 2: connections to fellow listeners. Unfortunately, we do have fellow listeners

1718
01:42:50,725 --> 01:42:53,805
Speaker 2: to make those tenuous or not so tenuous connections, like

1719
01:42:53,885 --> 01:42:54,485
Speaker 2: Tim and Denver.

1720
01:42:55,005 --> 01:42:58,564
Speaker 1: Tim says you, masacred. First Reformed connection is to Josh's

1721
01:42:58,605 --> 01:43:01,445
Speaker 1: scene from Wake Up Dead Man. I can't say for sure,

1722
01:43:01,525 --> 01:43:03,525
Speaker 1: but I really don't think i'd have gotten it without

1723
01:43:03,605 --> 01:43:06,485
Speaker 1: Josh's hint not only about a favorite actor of Adams,

1724
01:43:06,525 --> 01:43:09,604
Speaker 1: but also about how he started the final scene sounding

1725
01:43:09,765 --> 01:43:12,644
Speaker 1: like how we usually think of this actor. I rewound

1726
01:43:12,725 --> 01:43:14,285
Speaker 1: and I have to say that, yeah, Adam kind of

1727
01:43:14,365 --> 01:43:16,205
Speaker 1: channeled his boy Ethan pretty well there.

1728
01:43:16,405 --> 01:43:20,005
Speaker 2: Well done, Okay, I got I got one line or

1729
01:43:20,045 --> 01:43:22,684
Speaker 2: a couple words, and I will take it because otherwise

1730
01:43:22,685 --> 01:43:26,365
Speaker 2: I heard from some listeners who called it appropriately uninspired.

1731
01:43:26,765 --> 01:43:31,445
Speaker 2: Here's Ed Savoy hin in Philadelphia. While a tangential connection

1732
01:43:31,605 --> 01:43:34,005
Speaker 2: may be that Amanda Seyfred and Yes we were thinking

1733
01:43:34,045 --> 01:43:36,245
Speaker 2: of that a co star and First Reform made it

1734
01:43:36,325 --> 01:43:38,765
Speaker 2: onto one of your honorable mentions for music Moment of

1735
01:43:38,765 --> 01:43:41,325
Speaker 2: the Year for the Testament of Anilely. A more direct

1736
01:43:41,365 --> 01:43:44,445
Speaker 2: connection is probably the justified warm mentions of Wake Up

1737
01:43:44,485 --> 01:43:47,525
Speaker 2: Dead Man, a knives out mystery featuring a priest which

1738
01:43:47,565 --> 01:43:50,045
Speaker 2: happens to be Hawk's stock in trade in First Reform,

1739
01:43:50,405 --> 01:43:52,965
Speaker 2: and Hawk has been in a previous movie in the franchise,

1740
01:43:53,045 --> 01:43:56,485
Speaker 2: a quick cameo in Glass Onion. How about that? May

1741
01:43:56,565 --> 01:44:00,365
Speaker 2: God forgive me if I have not gleaned the correct connection.

1742
01:44:00,525 --> 01:44:06,445
Speaker 2: Thank you, Ed Josh. We actually had the most entries

1743
01:44:06,525 --> 01:44:10,365
Speaker 2: from Ascar theater we have received in quite a while.

1744
01:44:10,285 --> 01:44:11,564
Speaker 1: So it warms your heart.

1745
01:44:11,685 --> 01:44:14,445
Speaker 2: I think it was. It was The Reverend, it was

1746
01:44:14,525 --> 01:44:17,125
Speaker 2: the Ethan Hawk giveaway, it was all the hints, I'm sure,

1747
01:44:17,525 --> 01:44:18,765
Speaker 2: Or maybe it was the fact that it was a

1748
01:44:18,845 --> 01:44:22,085
Speaker 2: recent movie of recent vintage to twenty seventeen. I don't

1749
01:44:22,125 --> 01:44:25,005
Speaker 2: know all of the above, but you can. You can

1750
01:44:25,045 --> 01:44:27,325
Speaker 2: reach into the brimming film spotting hat and pick out

1751
01:44:27,805 --> 01:44:28,564
Speaker 2: this week's winner.

1752
01:44:29,005 --> 01:44:32,405
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, thank you everyone for entering it's the.

1753
01:44:32,565 --> 01:44:37,885
Speaker 2: Same Masker Theater for another Masaker theater doing what it's doing.

1754
01:44:38,445 --> 01:44:41,045
Speaker 1: Believe me, our winner, Tim Bauer.

1755
01:44:41,485 --> 01:44:43,765
Speaker 2: Yeah, Tim Bauer is from parts unknown though, I'm going

1756
01:44:43,845 --> 01:44:46,125
Speaker 2: to throw out I did a little searching and there

1757
01:44:46,405 --> 01:44:50,125
Speaker 2: there was a Tim Bauer who entered Massacre Theater some

1758
01:44:50,365 --> 01:44:52,445
Speaker 2: like way back in two thousand and six, and he

1759
01:44:52,605 --> 01:44:55,405
Speaker 2: was from Rancho Cucamonga. So he's been If it's the

1760
01:44:55,445 --> 01:44:57,885
Speaker 2: same Tim Bauer, he's been listening for a long time.

1761
01:44:57,965 --> 01:45:01,645
Speaker 2: And also I just really love saying Rancho Cucamonga, California.

1762
01:45:01,925 --> 01:45:04,405
Speaker 1: So I mean, if you live in Rancho Kuka manga,

1763
01:45:04,485 --> 01:45:06,525
Speaker 1: you're signing off with that every chance you get.

1764
01:45:07,045 --> 01:45:10,725
Speaker 2: That's a good point. Well, congratulations Tim. Wherever you're from,

1765
01:45:11,165 --> 01:45:13,565
Speaker 2: email feedback at filmspotting dot net, we will set you

1766
01:45:13,725 --> 01:45:16,724
Speaker 2: up with your very own film Spotting tote, t shirt

1767
01:45:17,325 --> 01:45:22,005
Speaker 2: or trial membership to the film Spotting Family. The sound

1768
01:45:22,125 --> 01:45:24,165
Speaker 2: goes through the cable to the box.

1769
01:45:24,725 --> 01:45:28,645
Speaker 1: A man records it on a big record in wax, but.

1770
01:45:28,805 --> 01:45:35,205
Speaker 2: You have to talk into the mic first. In the bush, Josh,

1771
01:45:35,285 --> 01:45:36,564
Speaker 2: I don't know that we can pull this off.

1772
01:45:37,205 --> 01:45:41,325
Speaker 1: Of course we can't. That's why he picked it all right,

1773
01:45:41,365 --> 01:45:42,525
Speaker 1: let's go, let's just start.

1774
01:45:43,765 --> 01:45:50,085
Speaker 2: Oh my god, oh my god. Okay, this sucks. Everything

1775
01:45:50,125 --> 01:45:52,045
Speaker 2: about this sucks. I guess I should have chimed in.

1776
01:45:52,485 --> 01:45:53,125
Speaker 1: It's perfect.

1777
01:45:53,685 --> 01:45:59,845
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay, fine, So this is truly the end

1778
01:45:59,885 --> 01:46:02,805
Speaker 2: of Massacre theater, right, this is the end. This is

1779
01:46:02,845 --> 01:46:04,365
Speaker 2: the massacre that's going to end it.

1780
01:46:04,925 --> 01:46:08,765
Speaker 1: I will say, if we were declaring that it was over,

1781
01:46:08,965 --> 01:46:10,644
Speaker 1: this would be a great way to go out.

1782
01:46:11,085 --> 01:46:13,285
Speaker 2: This is going to end. Like, think about how strained

1783
01:46:14,485 --> 01:46:17,644
Speaker 2: international relations currently are between the US and France.

1784
01:46:18,125 --> 01:46:20,925
Speaker 1: Oh already, well I didn't even I didn't even consay.

1785
01:46:21,205 --> 01:46:23,765
Speaker 2: And now what you're going to do to it? Yes,

1786
01:46:23,965 --> 01:46:24,804
Speaker 2: this is a disaster.

1787
01:46:25,485 --> 01:46:27,805
Speaker 1: At least you do no French? You know French? Right,

1788
01:46:28,285 --> 01:46:29,245
Speaker 1: you could speak French.

1789
01:46:29,645 --> 01:46:32,564
Speaker 2: I certainly did not take any French in high school.

1790
01:46:33,045 --> 01:46:37,205
Speaker 2: As will be as will be evidenced by this performance.

1791
01:46:37,725 --> 01:46:40,285
Speaker 2: This is what happens. So this is everyone. This is

1792
01:46:40,325 --> 01:46:45,045
Speaker 2: what happens when Sam and Josh decide on the mascre

1793
01:46:45,125 --> 01:46:47,964
Speaker 2: theater scene in the slack and I don't respond.

1794
01:46:48,645 --> 01:46:53,325
Speaker 1: M I mean, I think it's brilliant. I think I

1795
01:46:53,525 --> 01:46:56,965
Speaker 1: was born of like absolute fools. There's no way we

1796
01:46:57,045 --> 01:47:00,205
Speaker 1: can pull this off. No, and Sam has chosen a

1797
01:47:00,285 --> 01:47:05,045
Speaker 1: scene that requires from a filmmaker known for the precision

1798
01:47:05,605 --> 01:47:06,205
Speaker 1: of their dial.

1799
01:47:06,365 --> 01:47:07,564
Speaker 2: That's a hint. That's a hint.

1800
01:47:07,605 --> 01:47:12,005
Speaker 1: The delivery, the precision of the delivery. And this scene,

1801
01:47:12,125 --> 01:47:15,845
Speaker 1: even hot, has us precisely talking over each other.

1802
01:47:16,365 --> 01:47:18,604
Speaker 2: Okay, why don't you just we have that quirky while

1803
01:47:18,605 --> 01:47:19,045
Speaker 2: you're at.

1804
01:47:18,965 --> 01:47:20,645
Speaker 1: It, which we have not rehearsed at all.

1805
01:47:21,165 --> 01:47:23,604
Speaker 2: Of course, No, of course we haven't rehearsed. That would

1806
01:47:23,645 --> 01:47:24,724
Speaker 2: defeat the entire right.

1807
01:47:24,645 --> 01:47:26,644
Speaker 1: Now, we're just trying to like kill time before.

1808
01:47:27,725 --> 01:47:31,085
Speaker 2: I have never I have never actually been more nervous

1809
01:47:31,125 --> 01:47:32,805
Speaker 2: about a basket. I don't know how we're going to

1810
01:47:32,845 --> 01:47:33,644
Speaker 2: get through the scene.

1811
01:47:34,445 --> 01:47:35,925
Speaker 1: Okay, give me the action. We got to just do

1812
01:47:35,965 --> 01:47:36,205
Speaker 1: it then.

1813
01:47:36,365 --> 01:47:37,804
Speaker 2: I don't know if we're physically capable.

1814
01:47:38,205 --> 01:47:39,965
Speaker 1: Let's go, okay.

1815
01:47:41,325 --> 01:47:42,805
Speaker 2: And action.

1816
01:47:44,405 --> 01:47:46,845
Speaker 1: I want to say it as simple as I can,

1817
01:47:47,605 --> 01:47:50,845
Speaker 1: to try to shape it into words, the feelings in

1818
01:47:51,205 --> 01:47:51,684
Speaker 1: my heart.

1819
01:47:52,685 --> 01:47:53,965
Speaker 2: I love you, I don't love you?

1820
01:47:54,485 --> 01:47:57,684
Speaker 1: What I don't love you already?

1821
01:47:58,725 --> 01:47:59,165
Speaker 2: Already?

1822
01:47:59,245 --> 01:48:02,525
Speaker 1: What already? How do you know that? How can you

1823
01:48:02,605 --> 01:48:03,925
Speaker 1: be sure so quick?

1824
01:48:04,765 --> 01:48:06,644
Speaker 2: I'm sure? Ouch?

1825
01:48:08,045 --> 01:48:13,165
Speaker 1: That hurts me, the cruelty of it, the cold bloodedness.

1826
01:48:14,205 --> 01:48:16,605
Speaker 2: You said, what you wanted to say. I tried to

1827
01:48:16,685 --> 01:48:18,045
Speaker 2: stop it. I tried to stop you.

1828
01:48:18,325 --> 01:48:21,245
Speaker 1: That's it. I said part of what I wanted to say. Hey,

1829
01:48:21,405 --> 01:48:23,165
Speaker 1: I was in the middle of it. There's more.

1830
01:48:23,885 --> 01:48:27,045
Speaker 2: No, No, what will you know?

1831
01:48:27,605 --> 01:48:30,285
Speaker 1: Will you marry? Will you marry me?

1832
01:48:30,925 --> 01:48:34,645
Speaker 2: No? Does you to metri tuch comiso de force to

1833
01:48:35,005 --> 01:48:35,445
Speaker 2: inform me?

1834
01:48:38,645 --> 01:48:41,965
Speaker 1: And I don't.

1835
01:48:42,205 --> 01:48:43,925
Speaker 2: I don't think I said any of those words.

1836
01:48:44,325 --> 01:48:47,684
Speaker 1: I've heard of people who can speak for languages. I've

1837
01:48:47,965 --> 01:48:50,925
Speaker 1: never seen someone speak four languages at once, Adam.

1838
01:48:50,805 --> 01:48:54,485
Speaker 2: I think I think that was cling on. That might

1839
01:48:54,565 --> 01:48:56,604
Speaker 2: have been cling on at the end.

1840
01:48:56,725 --> 01:48:58,885
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you should he taken French instead.

1841
01:48:59,005 --> 01:49:02,725
Speaker 2: Here's the hardest part. Sam even spelled that out phonetically,

1842
01:49:02,965 --> 01:49:04,485
Speaker 2: and it made it harder.

1843
01:49:05,045 --> 01:49:05,965
Speaker 1: Such a good producer.

1844
01:49:06,285 --> 01:49:09,485
Speaker 2: I I have no idea. I have no idea what occur.

1845
01:49:09,725 --> 01:49:11,765
Speaker 2: We we did the We did the timing part even

1846
01:49:11,845 --> 01:49:13,285
Speaker 2: a little bit better than I thought. I mean, I

1847
01:49:13,325 --> 01:49:15,565
Speaker 2: thought we actually would just stop. I thought like the

1848
01:49:15,645 --> 01:49:16,845
Speaker 2: train would come do a holt.

1849
01:49:16,965 --> 01:49:20,564
Speaker 1: No, you never stop. We have we have never stopped

1850
01:49:20,565 --> 01:49:23,365
Speaker 1: in Masks theater. That is the if we stop in

1851
01:49:23,445 --> 01:49:25,845
Speaker 1: Massacre theaterever and then we do have to shut it down.

1852
01:49:26,325 --> 01:49:30,604
Speaker 2: Okay, if you know what film we just massacred, email

1853
01:49:30,685 --> 01:49:33,005
Speaker 2: the movies title, your name and location to feedback at

1854
01:49:33,045 --> 01:49:36,485
Speaker 2: filmspotting dot net. The deadline is Monday, February ninth. We

1855
01:49:36,565 --> 01:49:39,285
Speaker 2: will select the winner randomly from all the correct entries.

1856
01:49:39,405 --> 01:49:42,564
Speaker 2: I'm guessing there won't be a ton and we'll announce

1857
01:49:42,645 --> 01:49:46,045
Speaker 2: it in a couple of weeks. And what better point

1858
01:49:47,125 --> 01:49:49,045
Speaker 2: to end the show on than that?

1859
01:49:49,245 --> 01:49:52,165
Speaker 1: Josh agreed. If you want to connect with us on

1860
01:49:52,245 --> 01:49:57,965
Speaker 1: social media, you can find Adam and the show on Instagram, Facebook, letterboxed, YouTube.

1861
01:49:58,045 --> 01:50:00,644
Speaker 1: He's at film spotting. You can find me at those

1862
01:50:00,685 --> 01:50:04,605
Speaker 1: places as Larsen on film. We are independently produced and

1863
01:50:05,045 --> 01:50:07,725
Speaker 1: listener supported. You can support the show by joining the

1864
01:50:07,765 --> 01:50:11,644
Speaker 1: film Spotting Family at filmspottingfamily dot com. You can listen

1865
01:50:11,685 --> 01:50:14,285
Speaker 1: early and add free. That way, you also get Sam's

1866
01:50:14,325 --> 01:50:17,765
Speaker 1: weekly newsletter, monthly bonus episodes, and access to the entire

1867
01:50:17,885 --> 01:50:20,685
Speaker 1: show archive. For show t shirts and other merch go

1868
01:50:20,765 --> 01:50:23,245
Speaker 1: to spotting dot net slash shop.

1869
01:50:23,645 --> 01:50:26,485
Speaker 2: As an aside, this is how clever producer Sam is.

1870
01:50:27,245 --> 01:50:29,764
Speaker 2: I told him via Slack, how long we spent talking

1871
01:50:29,765 --> 01:50:31,885
Speaker 2: about one battle after another that I thought it was

1872
01:50:32,845 --> 01:50:38,325
Speaker 2: around like eighty minutes. Yeah, he guessed fifty two. I

1873
01:50:38,485 --> 01:50:40,045
Speaker 2: laughed at him and then I told him it was

1874
01:50:40,165 --> 01:50:43,245
Speaker 2: eighty and he said, well, you didn't go ninety, which

1875
01:50:43,285 --> 01:50:47,725
Speaker 2: would have been an obscenity. This, this is merely unhinged.

1876
01:50:49,685 --> 01:50:50,365
Speaker 1: He's not wrong.

1877
01:50:51,365 --> 01:50:54,085
Speaker 2: In the archive, we do have one Battle Round one

1878
01:50:54,685 --> 01:50:58,325
Speaker 2: that's episode ten thirty four. We also have lots more

1879
01:50:58,445 --> 01:51:01,485
Speaker 2: Paul Thomas Anderson Liquorice Pizza eight fifty three, Phantom Threads

1880
01:51:01,525 --> 01:51:04,205
Speaker 2: six sixty four, and Hern Weiss five seventeen, The Master

1881
01:51:04,365 --> 01:51:08,325
Speaker 2: five fourteen. There will be Blood Wow episode one ninety three,

1882
01:51:08,485 --> 01:51:12,405
Speaker 2: and a tenth anniversary review on six fifty eight Magnolia.

1883
01:51:12,485 --> 01:51:15,325
Speaker 2: That was episode seven fifty two. We talked about that

1884
01:51:15,405 --> 01:51:17,604
Speaker 2: film was part of our nine from ninety nine series.

1885
01:51:17,645 --> 01:51:20,285
Speaker 2: And yes, we did talk about Boogie Nights just recently

1886
01:51:20,845 --> 01:51:24,245
Speaker 2: as part of our January Bonus content for film Spotting

1887
01:51:24,285 --> 01:51:27,525
Speaker 2: Family members. Our Film Spotting Family members do have access

1888
01:51:27,885 --> 01:51:30,285
Speaker 2: to the Film Spotting Archive in all of those episodes

1889
01:51:30,365 --> 01:51:35,165
Speaker 2: at their fingertips whenever they want it streaming or available VOD.

1890
01:51:35,565 --> 01:51:38,804
Speaker 2: This weekend, I suppose it's streaming. You can watch Sundance

1891
01:51:38,885 --> 01:51:41,965
Speaker 2: Film Festival movies, Josh. Those are available the twenty ninth

1892
01:51:42,165 --> 01:51:47,325
Speaker 2: through February first in limited release. It's expanding. You mentioned

1893
01:51:47,365 --> 01:51:51,205
Speaker 2: it earlier, the French animated film Arco. Check that out

1894
01:51:51,365 --> 01:51:54,205
Speaker 2: if you have a chance in wide release. I am

1895
01:51:54,285 --> 01:51:57,365
Speaker 2: curious about Sam Raimi's new one, his Survival of the

1896
01:51:57,445 --> 01:52:01,645
Speaker 2: Fittest Thriller Send help with Rachel McAdams and Dylan O'Brien,

1897
01:52:02,205 --> 01:52:04,285
Speaker 2: and a reminder. Next week on the show, we're going

1898
01:52:04,325 --> 01:52:07,644
Speaker 2: to talk about our favorite Diane Keaton scenes.

1899
01:52:08,005 --> 01:52:10,644
Speaker 1: Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe Disso and Sam

1900
01:52:10,805 --> 01:52:13,365
Speaker 1: Van Hoggren. Without Sam and Golden Joe, this show would

1901
01:52:13,405 --> 01:52:17,764
Speaker 1: it go. Our production assistant is Sophie Kampenar and special

1902
01:52:17,805 --> 01:52:20,885
Speaker 1: thanks to everyone at wbeazy Chicago. More information is of

1903
01:52:21,005 --> 01:52:24,285
Speaker 1: available at wbez dot org for Film Spotting.

1904
01:52:24,405 --> 01:52:27,485
Speaker 2: I'm Josh Larson and I medam Kempinar. Thanks for listening.

1905
01:52:27,725 --> 01:52:32,085
Speaker 2: This conversation can serve no purpose anymore, but Burne