Speaker 1: Well, well, well, we're back again for episode one, and
Speaker 1: we've got a very special episode in store for you
Speaker 1: today as we continue getting ready for the upcoming season
Speaker 1: with a former long term NBA assistant and head coach,
Speaker 1: currently the head coach of USC's men's basketball team, Eric Musselman,
Speaker 1: on today's episode.
Speaker 2: Hey, look, this is the top tier show.
Speaker 3: What wait, it's what we do. It's what we do,
Speaker 3: got Eric?
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, okayim, he's here now, Okay for in a moment,
Speaker 1: but let me introduce myself.
Speaker 3: There.
Speaker 4: I'm Jack O'Brien and this is my Boosties do Sorry,
Speaker 4: got it? Looka don chic his Okay?
Speaker 3: Here you gob driving spinty fat number night Gene.
Speaker 5: That's good.
Speaker 3: Secure.
Speaker 5: Let's sell picture NBA champions over the double team.
Speaker 1: To be honest with the time, Eric Musselman, coach muss,
Speaker 1: welcome to the show. Even though I am a former
Speaker 1: Bruin at heart, I welcome you as the USC men's
Speaker 1: basketball coach to our illustrious show. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for joining us. I mean, look, you've we were saying
Speaker 1: like before you actually got on. I'm like, I think
Speaker 1: this guy has probably seen the game from almost every
Speaker 1: conceivable angle in terms of coaching and whatnot.
Speaker 2: So it's really great to have you here so we
Speaker 2: can pick your brain a bit.
Speaker 6: Now, Thanks Miles, I appreciate you and and jack having
Speaker 6: me on today.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely So. We have so
Speaker 1: many questions. We don't even know where to start. Which
Speaker 1: way should we go? Jackson's to us since we are
Speaker 1: the hosts.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you you recently told a story about
Speaker 3: working with Jerry West that was pretty interesting to us.
Speaker 3: Get to sort of just the level of skill, the
Speaker 3: level of intensity that I feel like you only see
Speaker 3: behind the scenes. Can you talk about just your experience
Speaker 3: with with Jerry West just to give people a little
Speaker 3: taste of like what kind of you've seen it all?
Speaker 3: It's Blade Runner.
Speaker 6: There's so many stories. You know, working at Memphis, the
Speaker 6: head coach was Mike Urtello, I was one of the
Speaker 6: assistant coaches. Obviously, Jerry West was the general manager. And
Speaker 6: you know, I like in the draft room, Uh, the
Speaker 6: most competitive person I've ever been around. And you know
Speaker 6: there was a game where Kenyan Martin was not blocked
Speaker 6: out by one of our bigs and UH, and Jerry
Speaker 6: West came in after the game.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 6: In the locker room, uh, and addressed the non blockout
Speaker 6: in about is the most intense post game locker rooms
Speaker 6: situation I've ever seen. Can't really use a lot of
Speaker 6: the words that were used in that locker room that
Speaker 6: night on not blocking out Kenyan Martin, But I mean
Speaker 6: there were so many stories that you know. One of
Speaker 6: them I was I was rebounding or working out whatever
Speaker 6: term you want to use for Dante Jones and the
Speaker 6: phone rang at the Scorge table. It was like a
Speaker 6: four point thirty in the afternoon for seven o'clock seven
Speaker 6: oh five tip off, and the phone kept ringing and
Speaker 6: Scott Adebata was one of the assistants, and he said,
Speaker 6: must go answer that phone. It's probably Jerry West. And
Speaker 6: I had just joined the team, because remember that was
Speaker 6: the year that for Tello, I took over you for
Speaker 6: Huby Brown once the season was already underway and the
Speaker 6: only coaching changes were for Tello and then myself. And
Speaker 6: what had happened is Jerry was watching the workout that
Speaker 6: I was putting Dante Jones through and didn't agree with
Speaker 6: some of the skilled development stuff I was working on,
Speaker 6: some of the areas that I thought Dante needed to
Speaker 6: improve on Wow, Jerry just wanted him to work on
Speaker 6: what he was going to do that night, and he
Speaker 6: used to sit up in the owners suite and watch.
Speaker 6: He wanted to know who the first players on the
Speaker 6: floor were for the opposing team and our own home team,
Speaker 6: and then he wanted to watch the players work out
Speaker 6: to look at their intensity level, attention to detail, and
Speaker 6: he wanted to watch the assistant coaches on both teams
Speaker 6: to see who knew what they were doing. So that's
Speaker 6: just one example of his attention to detail and then
Speaker 6: his work ethic. Obviously for a guy of his stature,
Speaker 6: I mean, he's the logo and he's there, first executive
Speaker 6: in the building at four point thirty, already up in
Speaker 6: his little perch waiting to see and look down and
Speaker 6: evaluate everybody that was on the floor, way before even
Speaker 6: the first bus came, because obviously in the NBA there's
Speaker 6: a first bus, second bus. He wanted to see about
Speaker 6: those guys that were you in a taxi cab with
Speaker 6: maybe a lower level assistant coach at the time. So
Speaker 6: super super detail and about as competitive as any human
Speaker 6: being I've ever been around.
Speaker 3: How is his competitiveness And in the draft room, specifically
Speaker 3: because I mean legendarily the guy who saw Kobe before
Speaker 3: anybody else saw Kobe. But like, how is how is
Speaker 3: that manifesting itself?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I think all those Kobe stories I
Speaker 6: wasn't around obviously, then I think they're all true.
Speaker 7: I know that.
Speaker 6: You know, the year that I was with him, he
Speaker 6: went and saw Monte Ellis play before anyone really knew
Speaker 6: who Monte Ellis was. And he came back and said
Speaker 6: that he thought he saw a guy that could average
Speaker 6: fifteen and twenty points a night, and he was right.
Speaker 6: And you know, that was evaluating a high school player,
Speaker 6: which is you know, super super hard to do. Yeah,
Speaker 6: and we just were we drafted that year. It was
Speaker 6: more in the mid first, so we were not going
Speaker 6: to take Monte early. But I remember him keep saying, like, hey,
Speaker 6: Monte Ellis is going to be better than any of
Speaker 6: these guys that were going to draft in the mid first.
Speaker 6: But he had his eye on uh Gerald Green uh
Speaker 6: and Danny Granger, and both those guys went pretty close
Speaker 6: to right before uh we picked, and he walked out
Speaker 6: of the draft room. He was so frustrated that those
Speaker 6: two guys had gone directly in front of our pick,
Speaker 6: which ended up that year being Hakeem Warwick. But he
Speaker 6: was so competitive and was so fired up to get
Speaker 6: one of those two guys, and and and and he
Speaker 6: was he was so right on with his evaluation of
Speaker 6: players and how they would fit in with the current roster.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I get that.
Speaker 3: I I sometimes get frustrated when I got my eye
Speaker 3: on someone in a fantasy draft and taken, you know,
Speaker 3: a couple of picks before me. So basically the same thing.
Speaker 6: We were on the clock, you know what I mean.
Speaker 6: It's like, hey man, we're down to nine minutes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you got to make a pick, and it's he's
Speaker 3: just leaving because he's so mad.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was between an NC State guard that Denver
Speaker 6: took and Warwick and and we're trying to make this decision.
Speaker 6: And then Jerry came in about a minute and a
Speaker 6: half before the draft and and went with the guy
Speaker 6: that had a little bit more size.
Speaker 3: There you go. Was it hard to argue with him
Speaker 3: when he when you're taking a call from him, I'm
Speaker 3: assuming he's being very diplomatic about telling you what you
Speaker 3: should be doing with Dante Jones, setting your workout and
Speaker 3: just being like taking your feelings into consideration, But you
Speaker 3: did you have a moment where you look down and
Speaker 3: looked at the logo and you were like, the logo
Speaker 3: is calling me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well, the.
Speaker 6: First encounter with with with Jerry West was, uh, we
Speaker 6: had made a trade in Golden State going into my
Speaker 6: year two and we had a really good year one
Speaker 6: with a lot of young pieces. But Gilbert Arena swalked
Speaker 6: after year one and there was a shift in the
Speaker 6: organization where they went with a lot of older vets,
Speaker 6: probably knowing they were going to fire me, and they
Speaker 6: were going to fire the general manager, Gary Saint Jean
Speaker 6: and Chris Mullen was going to take over, right, Avery Johnson,
Speaker 6: Popeye Jones, Nick Van Exel. We got a whole group
Speaker 6: of older guys that were coming into our program. But
Speaker 6: a trade was made and Jerry called me and said
Speaker 6: you're gonna get fired time in the next twelve months
Speaker 6: based on the way the roster was moving, and he
Speaker 6: was one thousand percent right. That was literally the first
Speaker 6: time that I ever talked to Jerry West.
Speaker 3: Hey, man's up, you get fired, coach, and let me
Speaker 3: start the clock real quick.
Speaker 2: There's the countdown.
Speaker 6: Yeah. She hit my phone and said, hey, Jerry West
Speaker 6: is on. At that point, I was like thirty seven
Speaker 6: year old coach and I'm like, hey, just directed to
Speaker 6: Jarry Saint Geane like I don't want to, you know,
Speaker 6: be involved with talking to another GM, and she said no,
Speaker 6: he insists in talking to you. It's not necessarily about
Speaker 6: a trade proposal. And I got on and literally he said,
Speaker 6: you're not going to make it bad. Chemistry stuff going
Speaker 6: on there with your with your with your additions and
Speaker 6: so on and so forth, and he goes, you'll be
Speaker 6: fired in twelve months. Click and wow, he gave me
Speaker 6: three months more than what I actually got from the
Speaker 6: from the moment of the phone.
Speaker 3: He was he just doing that to talk trash or
Speaker 3: was he like, so keep us in mind when you're
Speaker 3: looking for the next job, or what was his purpose
Speaker 3: in telling you that you were about to get fired,
Speaker 3: just like something he had figured out and wanted to
Speaker 3: make sure you knew.
Speaker 6: I'm not really sure, you know, Jerry mysterious way. I don't.
Speaker 6: I'm not really sure what was when he when he
Speaker 6: made the hire of of coach for Tello. I was,
Speaker 6: you know, I got a phone call right after he
Speaker 6: and coach for Tello got you know, came to an agreement,
Speaker 6: and you know, he was the one guy that I
Speaker 6: brought on with Mike. So I don't know if he
Speaker 6: had been watching studying or what, but but I you know,
Speaker 6: was fortunate enough to then end up working for him obviously.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, like in terms of, like I identifying talent
Speaker 1: and stuff. I know you've seen a lot of players
Speaker 1: come through and had your own sort of opinions on
Speaker 1: them and what their careers could be. I mean I've
Speaker 1: heard that, like, you know, when you were in Orlando
Speaker 1: and ninety eight, you you're like Dirk, Dirk, like, what
Speaker 1: was sort of like, you know, give me a little
Speaker 1: bit of texture in terms of like what your experience
Speaker 1: has been, because I know you had also seen Vince
Speaker 1: Carter or like Deer and Fox and seen something special
Speaker 1: but sort of described like for you, like what those
Speaker 1: experiences are like and seeing them and kind of immediately
Speaker 1: sort of trying to get your gears going and you're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I see the weaknesses here, these are the strengths in
Speaker 1: the past. Nope, this will be good in a couple
Speaker 1: of years, or you know what, how does that? How
Speaker 1: does that work in your mind, especially after you know,
Speaker 1: being around so many really gift at people in the game.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, you know, my role kind of in
Speaker 6: Orlando was John Gabriel was a general manager and Chuck
Speaker 6: Daly was the head coach, and it was kind of
Speaker 6: a bridge between because I had come from the minor
Speaker 6: leagues in the old CBA, so when we needed to,
Speaker 6: you know, call a player up, I was heavily involved
Speaker 6: in that stuff. But then Coach Daily had, you know,
Speaker 6: kind of because I was so young, I wanted to
Speaker 6: mentor me in evaluation and and and how to kind
Speaker 6: of go maybe potentially in that player personnel development role.
Speaker 6: And you know that particular draft, like John Gabriel sent
Speaker 6: me to watch Vince Carter playing Daytona Beach because he
Speaker 6: was from Daytona Beach and they played Bethune Cookman and
Speaker 6: I came back, and you know, my eval was that,
Speaker 6: you know, he was always grabbing a different body part.
Speaker 6: He looked like he was always hurt. You know, the
Speaker 6: particular game he got poked in the eye and went
Speaker 6: in the locker room for a brief moment. And then
Speaker 6: I look back all these years later and I'm like,
Speaker 6: you know, how dumb was my worst email ever.
Speaker 7: You know, I don't know, he didn't have much like
Speaker 7: his He didn't have a long career, did he he
Speaker 7: was yeah, yeah, yeah, But that.
Speaker 6: That same draft for Shard Lewis had come out, and
Speaker 6: part of my stuff was hanging out in the weight
Speaker 6: room when the when the strength coach tested him, and
Speaker 6: Mick Smith was our strength coach, and I just remember
Speaker 6: how little Rashard Lewis could bench press, you know that
Speaker 6: when I tried to report back to coach daily and
Speaker 6: then John Gabriel, I just you know, continually talked about, hey,
Speaker 6: I don't know how his body is going to withstand uh,
Speaker 6: NBA Force and NBA and then obviously another guy. But
Speaker 6: but I feel super lucky that I was part of
Speaker 6: remembering my opinion and how that opinion was wrong because
Speaker 6: I lacked experience, yeah, and I lacked the vision and
Speaker 6: looking long term. So I think it's really helped me
Speaker 6: at the collegiate level, looking back at some of the
Speaker 6: stuff that that I said about players when they were
Speaker 6: coming out of college.
Speaker 3: Yeah right, you weren't the only one, by the way,
Speaker 3: who had that year's draft wrong. Michael Olowa Candy went
Speaker 3: number one, like Bibby who was you know, all these
Speaker 3: things made sense at the time. Rafe LaFrentz maybe didn't
Speaker 3: make as much sense at the time.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 3: And then Anton Jamison, his own teammate, went before Vince Carter.
Speaker 3: I still remember that draft because my dad was an
Speaker 3: assistant for the Boston Celtics, and it was like peak
Speaker 3: me being like super bought into just whatever was going on,
Speaker 3: like you know, needling him for any extra information that
Speaker 3: he could get me. And he was like, there's this
Speaker 3: guy Dirk Noowitsky that like if we can, I think
Speaker 3: he might slide to us. They were at ten, and
Speaker 3: like he was just like all week all we care about.
Speaker 3: We're just like begging, like hoping that Navitzky slides to us,
Speaker 3: and he went one before he went number nine and
Speaker 3: there but Paul Pierce slid that year for no, for
Speaker 3: no good reason, like nobody has a good explanation for
Speaker 3: why he ended up at ten, and so they ended
Speaker 3: up with a you know, generational player anyways, But yeah.
Speaker 6: The Dirk story too, for that that I experienced, Jack
Speaker 6: was we did not know who Dirk was. About thirty
Speaker 6: days before the draft. We had not his name wasn't
Speaker 6: on the draft board. Word started circulating about three weeks
Speaker 6: before the draft, at least for our you know draft
Speaker 6: war room in Orlando, and then we tried to go
Speaker 6: over there. We tried to send different staff members over there,
Speaker 6: and and to my you know memory, you know, don
Speaker 6: Nelson just had him on lockdown. Like there was all
Speaker 6: types of stories about how how Dirt couldn't play, and
Speaker 6: I really truly think it was a lot of it
Speaker 6: was fabricated by the Dallas Mavericks and and Don Nelson.
Speaker 6: You know, one of the stories, you know, with the
Speaker 6: Timberwolves was in the inaugural year, Don Nelson had called
Speaker 6: my dad and told him how bad Tim Hardaway's knees were.
Speaker 6: And we drafted poor Richardson and he turned into a
Speaker 6: really good player for us. But obviously Tim Hardaway's a
Speaker 6: Hall of Famer and Tim Hardaway don Nelson Nelson who
Speaker 6: was telling my dad he had a bad meat. So
Speaker 6: you know, part of the game, never hear any never
Speaker 6: believe anything you hear in the draft room.
Speaker 3: Yeah, amazing, all right, we should take let's take a
Speaker 3: quick break. We'll come back. We'll get into uh, just
Speaker 3: kind of the different eras the conversation that started with Aunt,
Speaker 3: but that we like to talk about about whether basketball
Speaker 3: is progressive, Are the guys getting better? Is the game
Speaker 3: getting better?
Speaker 2: Be right back.
Speaker 3: And we're back and coach. This is something I think
Speaker 3: the first episode we talked about this idea that basketball
Speaker 3: kind of has this specific shape to it at least.
Speaker 3: This is my thinking that, like, you know, baseball, part
Speaker 3: of the appeal is that it's been the same game
Speaker 3: for a long enough time that like the stats are
Speaker 3: comparable and you know, basketball really like you can just
Speaker 3: look at games from ten years ago, fifteen years ago
Speaker 3: and like see a pronounced difference in how the game
Speaker 3: is played, and it seems like they're adding new skills,
Speaker 3: Like you can see the players getting better and or
Speaker 3: at least getting good in different ways. And so just
Speaker 3: curious to hear your thoughts on that, Like is that
Speaker 3: something that you kind of are keeping in mind or
Speaker 3: that gets you excited about the game.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think so. I think, you know, I'm a
Speaker 6: big baseball fan. I think, like you know, when you
Speaker 6: look at baseball, I mean it's it's predominantly played in
Speaker 6: the United States in places like Dominican Republic in Venezuela,
Speaker 6: so it's kind of a smaller world participation right and
Speaker 6: what I believe has changed the NBA is the influx
Speaker 6: of the of the overseas coaching and players and the
Speaker 6: fundamentally sound players that have come over from outside the
Speaker 6: United States. The coaching right now, like if you're sitting
Speaker 6: in the USC's office and you want to try to
Speaker 6: come up with a new offensive scheme that's a little
Speaker 6: bit outside the box, more than likely you're turning on
Speaker 6: a FOBA game because there's body movement, there's player movement,
Speaker 6: there's there's five to six seven passes being made. There's
Speaker 6: three to four to five options instead of one or
Speaker 6: two options. I think the creativity of of of FOEBA
Speaker 6: basketball right now is as at a way way high level.
Speaker 6: I don't think the coaching is any necessarily better in
Speaker 6: the NBA than it than it has been in the past.
Speaker 6: I look at QB Brown and and and and your
Speaker 6: dad and his defensive reputation, and the Mike Bertello's and
Speaker 6: the Chucked and the pat Rileys. I don't necessarily think
Speaker 6: the coaching in the NBA is any better. I actually
Speaker 6: think the coaching has dipped in the n b A
Speaker 6: and and has slid a little bit compared to what
Speaker 6: it was. You know, the guys like Cotton fitz Simmons,
Speaker 6: those guys worked their way up and and were unbelievable
Speaker 6: X and O coaches and guys like Doug mo way
Speaker 6: ahead of their time. From a passing standpoint, George Carl,
Speaker 6: but I do think the European coaching and European players
Speaker 6: have changed the NBA and made the game better than
Speaker 6: it ever has been. And you do you know, nobody
Speaker 6: fifteen years ago would have thought player would have the
Speaker 6: shots selection of Steph Curry. So because of player development,
Speaker 6: because of you know, the work ethic, and guys solely
Speaker 6: focusing on one sport. When I grew up, you know,
Speaker 6: if you were a decent athlete, you played three sports, right,
Speaker 6: That does not happen anymore. Players going into their eighth
Speaker 6: grade a year pretty much have to commit to one sport.
Speaker 6: And that's another reason why I think you see better
Speaker 6: players than maybe what you've seen in the past.
Speaker 2: A lot of people I hear criticism a lot is
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 1: A lot of the players coming from overseas, there's so
Speaker 1: much emphasis on like teamwork and team play, where in
Speaker 1: the US it's become a lot more individualized, and you know,
Speaker 1: we're like in the business of really churning out stars
Speaker 1: rather than getting kids more familiar with playing like a
Speaker 1: team game. How do you look at that or or
Speaker 1: how do you like sort of balance the two or
Speaker 1: does do you see that as a deficit or more
Speaker 1: just that the emphasis is different and they sort of
Speaker 1: kind of blend together and they sort of compliment each
Speaker 1: other once these players are together, No.
Speaker 6: Miles, It's really interesting when I ask our players or recruits, Hey,
Speaker 6: who is your favorite NBA team? Almost nine out of
Speaker 6: ten guys say, oh, I don't have a team. I
Speaker 6: have a player. I like whoever Durant's playing on, or
Speaker 6: I like whatever team Kyrie's on. When I grew up,
Speaker 6: I mean, you were either a Laker fan or a
Speaker 6: Celtic fan.
Speaker 2: I mean, for the most part, for sure, sure.
Speaker 6: And I never almost never hear a player say, hey,
Speaker 6: I got this team. It's always hey, I like Miami
Speaker 6: when Lebron was there. I like the Cavs when Lebron's there.
Speaker 6: I like the Lakers now because Lebron that's a whole
Speaker 6: different mentality, you know. Then when I grew up, for sure,
Speaker 6: So I think that the star power has changed. I
Speaker 6: think even when you look at women's basketball, like the
Speaker 6: star power right now is really really prevalent in in
Speaker 6: the in the women's game, in the w n b A,
Speaker 6: and so I think it's just a different mentality of
Speaker 6: maybe what younger people feel about the game and how
Speaker 6: they're attached to two stars, you know. I mean, shoot,
Speaker 6: when I grew up, if if if a guy played
Speaker 6: on your favorite team and then he walked from for
Speaker 6: free agency or got traded, you.
Speaker 2: Didn't like to player at all, right, right, right, yeah, right, yeah,
Speaker 2: it was wrong with you. You never forgave him, yeah,
Speaker 2: of course, yeah, yeah, yeah, total yah.
Speaker 3: So one of the things that this is in the
Speaker 3: news lately because somebody who didn't do the one sport
Speaker 3: thing who actually was more of a football player, I
Speaker 3: think through high school, Anthony Edwards and then like kind
Speaker 3: of started coming around to basketball became one of the
Speaker 3: best players in the in the world. Was asked about
Speaker 3: players in the eighties and his quote starts out, I
Speaker 3: didn't watch it back in the day, so I can't
Speaker 3: speak on it, and that should have been the end
Speaker 3: of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, but confident guy, Yeah, he's like, what if
Speaker 2: I must answer.
Speaker 3: But then yeah, he kept on. They say it was
Speaker 3: tougher back then than it is now, But I don't
Speaker 3: think anybody had skill back then. Michael Jordan was the
Speaker 3: only one that really had skill, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: So that's why when they saw Kobe they were like,
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, now everybody has skill. It really feels
Speaker 3: like my six year old trying to like having watched
Speaker 3: three YouTube videos, like trying to come up with an
Speaker 3: explanation of like thirty years the best. Well, so they
Speaker 3: saw this guy and then this other guy who also
Speaker 3: has a lot of highlights. Everyone was like, wow, he's.
Speaker 2: Also then that guy dunked really good in that one clip.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Oh to Magic Johnson, who I'm just hearing about now
Speaker 3: in this story but apparently also a good player now.
Speaker 3: Magic in response, I never respond to a guy who's
Speaker 3: never won a championship. He didn't win a college championship.
Speaker 3: I don't even think he won a high school championship.
Speaker 3: So he's gotten a little snippy, Yeah I do. I
Speaker 3: don't know, like this seems like it takes it too
Speaker 3: far in the other direction of Blake. It's nobody was
Speaker 3: good back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But then then Kevin Garnett on his show of
Speaker 1: Paul Pierce, Like Kevin Garnett was like, He's like, I
Speaker 1: don't think these kids could have even lasted twenty years ago.
Speaker 1: Felt like, again, I know the I'm like, I have
Speaker 1: great love for the nineties, eighties and two thousand, so
Speaker 1: I understand the pain to hear someone say Michael Jordan
Speaker 1: was the only player with skill.
Speaker 2: But that felt like a bit of like a overreaction
Speaker 2: to that response.
Speaker 1: He kept saying like, you can't hit no triple step
Speaker 1: back three like anymore now, And sure, that's one thing
Speaker 1: we're talking about, But to say that they couldn't last,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think they would adapt if that's
Speaker 1: how the game is being played. I guess two parts.
Speaker 1: Do you just look at that as like sort of
Speaker 1: like the hubris and confidence of a young player like
Speaker 1: Anthony Edwards, like obviously he's starting off acknowledging his ignorance there,
Speaker 1: but also as someone who has coached young young people
Speaker 1: who are getting in the game, how much emphasis do
Speaker 1: you put on people understanding the foundations of the game
Speaker 1: and how the game has been played, or do you
Speaker 1: kind of think it's not as relevant to how we're
Speaker 1: playing now.
Speaker 6: Well, to answer the second part, I think for sure
Speaker 6: it's relevant. I think that young players should watch Magic
Speaker 6: Johnson and see his vision, see his willingness to be
Speaker 6: a passer, see his willingness to make teammates better. I mean,
Speaker 6: he's probably one of the greatest teammates, maybe the greatest
Speaker 6: teammate ever, because I mean you saw in that Philadelphia
Speaker 6: series when Kareem couldn't play and Magic went and played
Speaker 6: the five spot and was shooting hook shots. I mean,
Speaker 6: how many guys could ever play the one in the
Speaker 6: five in the same championship round. It just doesn't happen.
Speaker 6: But he could do it. He's probably the only player
Speaker 6: in the history of the game that could play the
Speaker 6: one one night and then go play the five and
Speaker 6: be equally effective. But I do think there's some brilliance
Speaker 6: in Anthony Edwards too, Like he must watch TV in
Speaker 6: an interview because you never know what he's gonna say. Sure, yeah,
Speaker 6: And so there is beauty in the fact that he
Speaker 6: can bring attention with some of his you know comments
Speaker 6: and you know, cause discussion points. But look, when I
Speaker 6: look back at game planning, you know, when you had
Speaker 6: the game plan for Charles Barkley. That's about as heart
Speaker 6: a guy as ever. The game plan. Yeah, mid post
Speaker 6: draw fouls, six foot four, but built like a linebacker,
Speaker 6: like could draw a rethrow attempt as well as anybody
Speaker 6: in today's game. So I think that all the young
Speaker 6: player should really sit down. There should almost be like
Speaker 6: a history class, right for every college player where they
Speaker 6: take a class, you know, once a week for an
Speaker 6: hour where you go back and you look at, you know,
Speaker 6: how did Carl Malone improve as a free throw shooter?
Speaker 6: Like that thing is that story on his free throw
Speaker 6: percentage increase is a phenomenal story. So I think that
Speaker 6: you got to know the history of the game because
Speaker 6: I think it's it's the only way to learn. It's
Speaker 6: the only way to to try to get you know,
Speaker 6: little nuggets that can help you improve as well.
Speaker 3: I mean, part of I think aunts appeal also is
Speaker 3: that he brings a sort of new to this earth
Speaker 3: point of view, Like that one interview where you like
Speaker 3: heard an Irish accent for the first time, it was like, oh, that's.
Speaker 2: Kind of cool. Yeah, like that kind of like that
Speaker 2: so from Iron, Yeah, So that's.
Speaker 3: What that His description of NBA history seemed like to me.
Speaker 3: Is like someone who just found out about that there
Speaker 3: wasn't an NBA in the eighties and nineties and.
Speaker 2: It wasn't just Michael Jordan playing himself the whole time.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's like, huh.
Speaker 1: Okay, I saw the documentary Space Jam and I was intrigued,
Speaker 1: so I wanted to learn more after that. But yeah,
Speaker 1: but I mean I think that's kind of like what
Speaker 1: makes the comment obviously not like feel like too antagonistic
Speaker 1: or anything, because he does start off, admittedly just saying like, hey,
Speaker 1: I didn't watch, so I can't so what I'm about
Speaker 1: to say, don't bother.
Speaker 2: Taking it seriously because the world were text.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's just funny even to do that, like
Speaker 1: you say, and then still give the answer and then
Speaker 1: everyone's like it comes out with their pitchforks. But like,
Speaker 1: as you talk about history for you, we've been talking
Speaker 1: about sort of some older players that you know, we
Speaker 1: have like listeners that span many generations in terms of fandom.
Speaker 1: A lot of younger fans, you know, some like to
Speaker 1: get into highlights and look at old tape and see
Speaker 1: how like the players of Yesterdyear played, But who are
Speaker 1: like some people that you feel like you would you
Speaker 1: would emphasize to your players, who are you kind of.
Speaker 2: Like does everybody know about this player?
Speaker 1: Does everybody know about this person's game or the evolution
Speaker 1: they had with their game? Like who are some people
Speaker 1: like that? Do you feel as somebody who's leading younger players?
Speaker 1: Like who are those sort of important players that you'd
Speaker 1: want them to be familiar with?
Speaker 6: I mean I think when I, you know, you look
Speaker 6: at the point guard screening of John Stockton, like you know,
Speaker 6: I think point guards need to look at a tape
Speaker 6: of John Stockton and see how physical he was at
Speaker 6: setting screens. Obviously we all know about the assist with Stockton,
Speaker 6: you know. I think when you look at off guards,
Speaker 6: you could think about like Rip Hamilton running off of
Speaker 6: screens and the pace that he used to come off
Speaker 6: as screens. I think, you know, when you when you
Speaker 6: think about small forwards like Dominic Wilkins, everybody talks about
Speaker 6: the human highlight reel, but in reality, guys like Dominic Wilkins,
Speaker 6: Bernard King, those guys were great small forward rebounders. You know, Yeah,
Speaker 6: you could rebound your position and then you had a
Speaker 6: small forward like those guys that could arrange rebound rebound
Speaker 6: outside their area. So I think there's a you know,
Speaker 6: Carl Malone's pick and roll game, understanding when to roll,
Speaker 6: understanding when to pop, understanding how to draw fouls at
Speaker 6: that power forward spot. And then certainly, you know, if
Speaker 6: you're a big guy, you know, if you watch Bill
Speaker 6: Walton's passing and his vision and his full court passing,
Speaker 6: or Wes Unsell and his outlet passing, or even his
Speaker 6: inbound passes after a made basket, and then you know,
Speaker 6: I'm surprised that more guys that are six ten, six
Speaker 6: eleven seven foot have not tried to, you know, emulate
Speaker 6: Kareem Abdul Jabbar with this hookshot. So I think there's
Speaker 6: a lot of guys that's just off the top of
Speaker 6: my head. If you're a if you're a player that's
Speaker 6: being moved to the point guard position, you have size,
Speaker 6: certainly you should watch the way that Magic Johnson would
Speaker 6: get his team into offense where he might have to
Speaker 6: play with his back to his rim because of his size,
Speaker 6: but he could look over his shoulder and find people.
Speaker 6: I know that you know, we did that with Cody
Speaker 6: Martin a little bit where where where we've tried to
Speaker 6: convert him from a four to a point guard and
Speaker 6: Magic Johnson clips were something that we felt were important.
Speaker 3: Oh that's cool, all right, coach, let's take one more break.
Speaker 3: We'll come back, and you are in for the rapid
Speaker 3: fire round of questions, the fastest question answer segment in
Speaker 3: the history of this podcast. So we'll take a quick break.
Speaker 3: We'll be right back, getting your triple threat position, because
Speaker 3: it's gonna be yeah.
Speaker 5: Deny, deny, den't I deny, and we're back.
Speaker 2: We're back.
Speaker 6: Us.
Speaker 1: You know they're gonna say, I'm really enjoying this because
Speaker 1: you're the head coach of SC men's basketball. But really,
Speaker 1: the hot seat is for everyone. It doesn't discriminate, and
Speaker 1: it's hot for everybody. This is the fastest question answer
Speaker 1: segment off podcasting history, at least on this podcast history.
Speaker 2: Where we're gonna ask you a question. Just just take
Speaker 2: us quick second to think about it. Just chest pass
Speaker 2: it right back, fire right back.
Speaker 1: Don't give too long of an answer, because we want
Speaker 1: to keep our title of the fastest question and answer
Speaker 1: segment off podcasting history. And if you take too long,
Speaker 1: we will be rude to you. And I just want
Speaker 1: to warn you that that that's just that's the caveat
Speaker 1: I want to enter with. So there's no hurt feelings
Speaker 1: or surprises because we take our superlative title very seriously.
Speaker 3: That we gave ourselves.
Speaker 1: That we gave ourselves. Obviously there's an asterisk by that,
Speaker 1: but don't read the fine print.
Speaker 2: Uh, Jackie ready? Yeah, coach mus you ready?
Speaker 6: Yep? Let's do it, all right, ran start the clock.
Speaker 2: This is the fastest segment of all time. Should should we?
Speaker 2: Who's going to go first? You should? I could go first?
Speaker 3: I think first one? All right, go Chris Thomas h
Speaker 3: Are you familiar with the concept of nominative determinism, where
Speaker 3: a person's name determines what they do for a living,
Speaker 3: Examples being Hussein Bolt becoming a sprinter. Doug Bowser is
Speaker 3: the name of the person who is the head of
Speaker 3: Nintendo America, or somebody who works in a gym and
Speaker 3: in sports with the last name muscleman. Has that ever
Speaker 3: come up?
Speaker 6: That has never come up?
Speaker 3: Okay, No, we just made history.
Speaker 2: Been your life?
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's history?
Speaker 2: All right? Okay.
Speaker 3: I mean you're kind of shredded and you've got dumbbells
Speaker 3: on your shirt right there?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah. In the gym.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw you in Nevada. I saw that clip
Speaker 1: of you on a on a treadmill highlighting while running.
Speaker 3: I was like this, Yeah, how do you do that?
Speaker 6: Yeah? I still do it. I go six miles every
Speaker 6: day with the highlighter and print articles before I leave
Speaker 6: for work, and then highlight them the next morning, and
Speaker 6: then the staff all gets the cliff notes of leadership articles,
Speaker 6: coaching articles. I do it every day.
Speaker 2: Oh amazing.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, you're hertridges running through a moment. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you're regular at Staples, aren't you.
Speaker 2: Coach bus is back just load up his toner.
Speaker 6: The Atlanta Hawks stan cast and actually called me into
Speaker 6: the office and told me stop printing and if I
Speaker 6: printed a article that was in color, I had to
Speaker 6: use black and white. That was Lanta Hawk's president at
Speaker 6: the time.
Speaker 2: Wow wow, wow wow.
Speaker 1: Now the president of the Dodgers. Uh yeah, what a guy. Okay,
Speaker 1: next question. This is something we've been talking. We've been
Speaker 1: talking about.
Speaker 2: Players of yesteryear.
Speaker 1: But I'm just curious, even though we wrapped up our
Speaker 1: nineties nostalgia series, we want to play a game of
Speaker 1: would he be even better now in this era? And
Speaker 1: I'll give you three players, and you kind of give
Speaker 1: me your thoughts if, if if they ended up in
Speaker 1: our current era.
Speaker 2: Amari Stodemeyer, Andre Kirolinko and lamar Odom.
Speaker 1: How do you see what you look at those two players,
Speaker 1: who do you feel would really thrive in our current era?
Speaker 6: Lamar odhim, I think he was one of the first
Speaker 6: positionless players, a guy that could play three, four to
Speaker 6: two if need be, could play a little bit of
Speaker 6: point forward. So I would say, Odim, that's pretty easy.
Speaker 2: Okay, Wow, I agreement that was the right answer. That
Speaker 2: was the right answer.
Speaker 3: That was but I you didn't need to make fun
Speaker 3: of us for how easy it was. All Right, that's
Speaker 3: the easiest question I've ever been asked. That's actually I
Speaker 3: answered that with my eyes closed. Do you is there
Speaker 3: a player other than those three that sticks in your mind?
Speaker 3: Like you mentioned Barkley being really hard to game plan four,
Speaker 3: But is there a player that you're like, God, if
Speaker 3: he had come along twenty years later, he would have
Speaker 3: been incredible.
Speaker 6: Doctor J. Yeah, he was just like he could play
Speaker 6: in any era. And I think about social media now
Speaker 6: and how every highlight gets exemplified and put out. The
Speaker 6: Doctor J would make a lot of money. When you
Speaker 6: think about his personality, when you think about how artistic
Speaker 6: his game was.
Speaker 3: That his name was doctor j It's pretty cool. The
Speaker 3: dopest name ever.
Speaker 1: I remember as a kid, I thought he was an
Speaker 1: actual doctor, like when I first heard of him, and well,
Speaker 1: but I was like, but don't you go to college
Speaker 1: for like four years and then you go to the NBA.
Speaker 1: But then he became a doctor And my dad was
Speaker 1: like he had just never told me. He's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but he's a doctor.
Speaker 3: H And I'm impressive.
Speaker 2: I embarrassed myself in fifth grade. Pretty bad, coach Musk.
Speaker 1: From your perspective, you know, looking at this upcoming NBA season,
Speaker 1: who do you see as kind of like a dark
Speaker 1: horse team, like someone we're not talking about, but as
Speaker 1: you've seen some bit of progression, you feel like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is.
Speaker 2: A team that I think, you know is going to
Speaker 2: make some noise.
Speaker 6: You know, we're so I'm so immersed in the in
Speaker 6: the college game. I mean I do like so, you know,
Speaker 6: like Timberwolves are, in my mind, are a team that
Speaker 6: if they remain healthy, if their coach can remain healthy.
Speaker 3: As well, Uh, I get taken out.
Speaker 6: I like what Minnesota has, you know, with the size
Speaker 6: and and and a superstar player and a team that
Speaker 6: continues or organization that continues uh to get better and better.
Speaker 6: And and you know for me, I you know, I
Speaker 6: like watching the Utah Jazz play just uh from a
Speaker 6: studying a younger roster with a younger coach that runs
Speaker 6: really really good stuff. So that's a team that I
Speaker 6: like to watch. And then Oklahoma City is another team
Speaker 6: that that I love to watch, another really good young
Speaker 6: coach with some really great young pieces. Actually have two
Speaker 6: of our Arkansas guys. So you know, I'm a big
Speaker 6: Thunder fan. And and uh and I think I think
Speaker 6: the Thunder and t Wolves both can make noise this year.
Speaker 3: Wow, word for word again, you got it exactly right.
Speaker 3: The answer is looking at our note, I think he
Speaker 3: might be copying off of me, off my answer sheet.
Speaker 3: We'll coach Muscleman. What a pleasure having you on Miles
Speaker 3: and Jack got mad Booth. Yes, uh, congratulations and looking
Speaker 3: forward to seeing what the what the Trojans do this
Speaker 3: year here in southern California. Where can people find you?
Speaker 3: Follow you? You know all of that stuff?
Speaker 6: Yeah on Twitter, it's just DP Muscleman and we're pretty
Speaker 6: active on social media. I know it's a little bit
Speaker 6: outside of the way I was raised with, you know,
Speaker 6: coming much like you did, Jack, when you know, your
Speaker 6: dad was pretty old school, so was my dad, but
Speaker 6: you got to change with the times, and so I'm
Speaker 6: pretty active on social media, at least I try to
Speaker 6: be for recruiting. But hey, it's been great joining you guys.
Speaker 6: I appreciate it. Jack, Miles, thanks so much for.
Speaker 2: Having me on Oh yeah, thanks man.
Speaker 1: All right, well, you can follow us at the hashtag
Speaker 1: mad boost He's beat A S t i e Y
Speaker 1: for show links and updates, and you can join the
Speaker 1: conversation on our discord server, and you can follow me
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Miles of Great.
Speaker 3: I'm at Jack Underscore O'Brien.
Speaker 1: And that was another splendid edition of Miles and Jack
Speaker 1: dot Mad Boosties with Coach where Musselman thank you so
Speaker 1: much for joining us again and we'll see you next week.
Speaker 3: Bye bye,