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Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women inum, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?

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Speaker 1: Or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start

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Speaker 1: changing it with the beck Del Cast. I know who

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Speaker 1: did it? Who was it? It was Caitlin in the

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Speaker 1: bedroom with the microphone. Yeah, by it do you mean

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Speaker 1: recorded a podcast? Because if so, then yes, it was

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Speaker 1: me who did it. Yes, and that past the Bechdel Test. Well,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus,

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Speaker 1: my name is Caitlin Darrante, and this is our feminist

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Speaker 1: movie podcast where we use the Bechdel Test as a

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Speaker 1: jumping off point to analyze famous movies. We're we're in

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Speaker 1: the quarantine zone, as is everyone at this point. Um,

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Speaker 1: So you know, I don't know. I don't remember life

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Speaker 1: before this anymore. I don't either. So we had hinted

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Speaker 1: possibly doing this movie during our National Treasure episode, right,

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Speaker 1: because we're just trying to stick to the romps. We're

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Speaker 1: trying to stick to the romps. I feel like it's

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Speaker 1: particularly fitting in the Quarantine because it's a movie pretty

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Speaker 1: much exclusively taking place in one location, one house, no

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Speaker 1: one really leaves. Some people come in and then they

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Speaker 1: die their self. Yeah, and that's what you get when

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Speaker 1: it's a metaphor. They weren't wearing masks when they came in,

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Speaker 1: and they didn't wash their hands. They did not. They

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Speaker 1: didn't know when you don't see anyone wash a single

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Speaker 1: hand and the house looks not you know, it's all

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Speaker 1: it's inherently dirty. And and there's a doctor present. He

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Speaker 1: should know better. He should be telling people there's literally

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Speaker 1: someone from the World Health Organization there, and and he's

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Speaker 1: not like scrub scrub, big issues, big problems. Obviously that

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Speaker 1: that's just the beginning of the critique we'll be talking

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Speaker 1: about today. And this are like our first who done it?

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Speaker 1: So this will be a fun episode. Um, But first

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Speaker 1: we should tell you what the Bechdel test is. Sure, Caitlyn,

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Speaker 1: do you remember what it is? Oh? No, it is

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Speaker 1: flipping my mind if memory serves. It is a media

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Speaker 1: metrics sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace test. It requires that

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Speaker 1: two female identifying characters have to have names such as

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Speaker 1: Mrs Peacock, Miss Scarlet, Mrs White, the Cook, the the

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Speaker 1: nameless cook. They have to speak to each other and

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Speaker 1: that conversation cannot be about a man. I want to

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Speaker 1: see if we can figure out the Bechdel Test version

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Speaker 1: of the of crimes. Here, here's a pitch. Okay, please, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if two women with names commit a crime that has

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with a man, it passes the Bechtel

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Speaker 1: test crime edition. Crime edition. Yeah, I'm into that, right.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that any of the crimes would pass

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Speaker 1: the Bechtel Test crime edition in this movie, in this

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Speaker 1: particular movie where it's it's usually connected to a husband

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Speaker 1: or something like like with Miss Scarlett, it was like

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Speaker 1: men were always tangential to what was happening for sure.

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Speaker 1: You know, we've got to do better. We've got to

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Speaker 1: do better crimes. Although if the crimes are committed against

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Speaker 1: men who are behaving badly, that that's okay to me.

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Speaker 1: I think men should be stolen from and like, that's true.

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Speaker 1: But then most of the women in the movie, everyone

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Speaker 1: in this movie is basically bad, so you're like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: everyone's rich, so that's not you know, except for the

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Speaker 1: cook who and we don't even get to know what

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Speaker 1: her name is. You know, she's the only woman of

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Speaker 1: color in the movie too. Yeah, and she's killed and

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Speaker 1: made fun of fuck John Wanna than Lynn? God damn it?

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, we have a lot to talk about

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Speaker 1: and no guests today, just us today, So the girls, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: what is your relationship history with the movie Clue? I

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Speaker 1: liked this movie. I didn't see it like when I

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Speaker 1: was growing up or anything like that, but I've seen it.

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Speaker 1: I think like it's like a good comfort movie. I

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Speaker 1: love Who Done It? And thrillers and stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: so a comedy Who Done It's right up my alley.

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Speaker 1: I think I've seen it, like yeah, like three or

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Speaker 1: four times. I rewatched it, most recently after seeing Knives Out,

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Speaker 1: which I think that I mean, I was not alone here,

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Speaker 1: but I watched or rewatched a ton of Who Done

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Speaker 1: It's after Knives Out came out because I really really

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Speaker 1: liked Knives Out same, I loved it. So yeah, there,

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Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a clue head, I'm a Who Done It? Head?

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Speaker 1: What about you? I also didn't grow up with it,

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Speaker 1: but I saw it sometime, I think, in like my

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Speaker 1: late teen years for the first time, and I think

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Speaker 1: it was just that once that I saw it, I

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Speaker 1: remember thinking it was fun. But like I also, I

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Speaker 1: didn't play the game really at all. Ever, growing up,

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Speaker 1: I think maybe I did play the game, not heavily.

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Speaker 1: It's more of an operation kid. Yeah, I was a

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Speaker 1: scrabble kid myself smart. That's smart kid culture. Well, it's

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Speaker 1: why I went on to later get a master's degree

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Speaker 1: in screenwriting, which I hate to bring up, but there

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Speaker 1: it is, us one degree. Heads were just poking at

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Speaker 1: the guy's like liver in Operation and they're like, he's dead.

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Speaker 1: I forgot. I don't forget how that game works. That's

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Speaker 1: more or less it. If you lose Operation, does he die? Oh?

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Speaker 1: That's yeah, what are the stakes? I don't lose? Does

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Speaker 1: a man die? That's really dark. I actually don't remember.

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Speaker 1: I haven't played in stuff. Oh, Jamie, I played a

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Speaker 1: Shrek version of Operation. Oh. I forgot about that. It

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Speaker 1: was right before I had my sludge surgery. For those

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Speaker 1: of you who don't know what I'm talking about, get

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Speaker 1: with the program the whole podcast about it. But I

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Speaker 1: had my gall bladder removed. Um, but I was told

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Speaker 1: that I had sludge in my gallbladder. Anyway, It was

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Speaker 1: a whole thing. But the Shrek, So you perform operations

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Speaker 1: on Shrek and right around where a person or Ogre's

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Speaker 1: gall bladder would be it said, like slugs. So it

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Speaker 1: looked not unlike sludge, and you had to remove the

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Speaker 1: slugs out of his gall bladder area. And it was like,

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Speaker 1: so the Shrek operation game was kind of like an

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Speaker 1: oracle for you. Yeah, exactly. I never forget Shrek. Actually

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Speaker 1: I don't, now that we're talking about it. I think

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Speaker 1: I've only played the Clue board game proper a few times,

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Speaker 1: but I did. My cousins had Simpson's Clue, and so

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Speaker 1: that was just like you could be like Mr Burns

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Speaker 1: did it. That's it. It was fun. It's a fun game,

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Speaker 1: and it's a fun movie. I'm excited to talk about

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Speaker 1: it in this whole genre. I do love who done

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Speaker 1: it indeed, and also, um, I know we'll probably go

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Speaker 1: through all of them. But for in case you're not

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Speaker 1: familiar with the stick of this movie, there's three different endings,

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Speaker 1: and so if you went to theaters in you would

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Speaker 1: have seen one of the three endings. But in the

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Speaker 1: in the cut that we that they distribute, now you

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Speaker 1: just the three endings in a row and kind of

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Speaker 1: like none of them makes sense or satisfying. Um, So

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Speaker 1: that's part of the thing. Yes, indeed, so should I

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Speaker 1: recap it somehow? I don't know this is this is

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Speaker 1: a difficult movie, do it, But I'll do what I can.

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Speaker 1: Thank Yes, same. We have no guest mucking up the

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Speaker 1: place today, so we should be fine. No disrespect to

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Speaker 1: all of our wonderful guests. What if this was the

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Speaker 1: What if we did have a guest and they tried

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Speaker 1: to murder us? Oh? Wow? Things. I don't know about

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Speaker 1: everyone else, but my mental state is unraveling. Oh I'm

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Speaker 1: deteriorating rapidly, really having some weird thoughts. Weird weird thoughts. Oh, yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: well bear with us, okay, yep. So the movie Clue starts.

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Speaker 1: We're in New England. Ever heard of it? Yea, it's

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty four, the year that my mother was born.

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Speaker 1: Shout out to Laurie. Hi, Laurie. Yeah. It's a dark

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Speaker 1: and stormy night. And Wadsworth the butler played by Tim

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Speaker 1: Curry our king and Icon also the the second most

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Speaker 1: popular Tim Curry movie that starts on a dark and

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Speaker 1: stormy night in a mansion. Wait, the other one being

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Speaker 1: Oh Rocky Harker, Oh my gosh, yeah, he's all about

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Speaker 1: that dark and stormy mansion. Yeah, Tim Curry, he does

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Speaker 1: just kind of look like he belonged in a dark

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Speaker 1: and stormy mansion. That's true, it makes sense. It does

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Speaker 1: make sense. Yeah. Um. So he arrives at said mansion

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Speaker 1: because there's a dinner party that night. He and other

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Speaker 1: staff members are making preparations. He checks in on the

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Speaker 1: maide A k Yvette, then he checks in with the cook.

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Speaker 1: Guests start arriving. They've all received a letter from a

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Speaker 1: man who lives at the mansion question Mark and has

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Speaker 1: invited them to this dinner party. He has given them

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Speaker 1: all an alias, so when the guests arrive, they are

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Speaker 1: addressed as Colonel Mustard. He gets there first. That's Martin

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Speaker 1: Mole icon Gene Parmesan from Arrested Development So Good. Next

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Speaker 1: to arrive is Mrs White that's Madeline Cohn, then Mrs

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Speaker 1: Peacock played by Eileen Brennan in Year. For a second,

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Speaker 1: you're like Susan Sir Randon, because you're so to seeing

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Speaker 1: her in Tim curry movies about dark and stormy nights.

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Speaker 1: But it's not her. See, I think miss Scarlett looks

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Speaker 1: like it's right, that's who I was talking, That's who

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Speaker 1: I was talking about Mrs Peacock is has like the

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Speaker 1: feathered hat. It is very hard to keep the character's

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Speaker 1: names straight, truly, is I kept My notes might be

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Speaker 1: jumbled also because most of them, I would say, except

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Speaker 1: for Mrs Peacock, have a name that is related to

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Speaker 1: a color, either a color specifically or like mustard yellow.

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Speaker 1: Of course, there's Mr Green, he shows up. Next, there's

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Speaker 1: Mrs White, Miss Scarlett, that's a color, and then Professor

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Speaker 1: Plum Plum purple purple, but no one wears the color

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Speaker 1: of the name that they are given, which is um rude.

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Speaker 1: So then Mr Green shows up. That's Michael McKean. And

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Speaker 1: then outside down the road we have Miss Scarlett that's

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Speaker 1: Leslie and Warren. She has car trouble, and then Professor

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Speaker 1: Plum played by Christopher Lloyd, who was having a great

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Speaker 1: year in Because this is also when Back to the

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Speaker 1: Future came out. Yeah, I think that if Back to

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Speaker 1: the Future had come out before this, he probably wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be in this movie. So this is like the last

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Speaker 1: chance you get Christopher Lloyd in like a supporting, supporting role.

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Speaker 1: So he drives by, picks up Miss Scarlett, and they

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Speaker 1: both arrive at the mansion and everyone sits down for dinner,

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Speaker 1: but no one knows what's going on really who anybody

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Speaker 1: else is. But they all start chatting and they figure

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Speaker 1: out that everyone has ties to Washington, d C. And

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Speaker 1: it's also like the McCarthy era, so you're it. It

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Speaker 1: took a while for me to like click in what

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Speaker 1: they were doing with the historical like setting, because I

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Speaker 1: was like, why were they going through the trouble of

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Speaker 1: having this? But it's all vaguely. I'm like, is this

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Speaker 1: movie trying to say something? If so, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what it is, but I think they might be sort

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Speaker 1: of trying to say something by setting it in the

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Speaker 1: McCarthy era. And it's like a bunch of Washington elite

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Speaker 1: in the McCarthy era because a little later on we

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Speaker 1: find out that this Mr. Body guy is blackmailing everyone

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Speaker 1: because they're like, you're an American and instead of reporting

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Speaker 1: you to the like house an American Activities Committee, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna make money guys camping it. It's like it's very

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Speaker 1: campy commentary where that's the one moment where you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's what they're trying to say, okay, Like and then

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Speaker 1: in all three endings, you find out that communism was

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Speaker 1: a red herring, and it's like, what are you talking about? Right?

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Speaker 1: It's so campy that I'm like, I don't know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know how much of it is like camping, how

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Speaker 1: much of it is like good Americans? You know, Like

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Speaker 1: I also, Jonathan Lynde is British, so he might just

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Speaker 1: be making fun of Americans in general. We don't know.

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Speaker 1: We don't watch this movie for the message. Okay, speak

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Speaker 1: for yourself, Jimmie, I'm looking for inscsive political commentary. Clue

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Speaker 1: a movie. It's an allegory for the red scare, now, Okay.

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Speaker 1: So then the seventh guest arrives, Mr Body and Wadsworth

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Speaker 1: is like, hey, everyone, the reason that you're all here

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Speaker 1: is that you're being blackmailed. And then we find out

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Speaker 1: the various reasons each character is being blackmailed, such as

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Speaker 1: Professor Plum is a former psychiatrist who lost his license

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Speaker 1: because he assaulted his female patients. Yikes, and that's a joke.

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Speaker 1: Huh huh, So we'll talk about that. Um Mrs Peacock

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Speaker 1: takes shady political bribes on behalf of her politician husband.

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Speaker 1: Her husband, her husband, um Miss Scarlett runs an escort service.

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Speaker 1: Colonel Mustard is a client of that escort service. Mrs

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Speaker 1: White probably killed her husband, and then you later find

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Speaker 1: out probably killed. Mrs White's character gets better and better

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Speaker 1: as the movie because she is fine. And then Mr

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Speaker 1: Green is gay and has to stay in the closet

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Speaker 1: to keep his job in the State Department. So those

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Speaker 1: are all the reasons they are being blackmailed. I do

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Speaker 1: at least appreciate that Mr Green opens by saying, I

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Speaker 1: am not ashamed of it, but it is basically I'm

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Speaker 1: not ashamed of it. However, it is ninety four. That's

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Speaker 1: more than I expected of So I'll give a little

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Speaker 1: tip of the hat. Yeah, there's a whole conversation to

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Speaker 1: be had about the way all of that is framed.

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Speaker 1: But and then we learned that Mr Body is the

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Speaker 1: one who is blackmailing everyone. But Wadsworth is like, good news.

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Speaker 1: The police will be here in forty five minutes and

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Speaker 1: you can tell the police that you're being blackmailed and

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Speaker 1: Mr Body can be brought to justice. Then Mr Body

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Speaker 1: gives everyone a weapon, which are a candlestick, a new pipe, wrench, gun,

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Speaker 1: and dagger, and he's like, here's the thing. If you

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Speaker 1: expose me, you're also exposing yourself for whatever it is

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Speaker 1: that you're being blackmailed for. But if one of you

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Speaker 1: kills Wadsworth, then this whole thing can be over. So

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Speaker 1: Mr Body shuts off the light. Then there's a thud,

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Speaker 1: a gunshot, and a scream, and when the light is

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Speaker 1: turned back on, it's Mr Body who has been killed.

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Speaker 1: Your Body is a great character name. I don't know why.

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Speaker 1: It's so like, it's so achy. Um, yeah, you can't

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Speaker 1: kill Tim Curry this early in the movie. It doesn't happen,

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Speaker 1: certainly not. Tim Curry is such a champion in this movie,

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Speaker 1: where like if you think about, like how much more

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Speaker 1: dialogue he has than everyone, because he's just like paragraphs

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Speaker 1: of exposition at a time, just on a You're like,

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Speaker 1: what a professional, right, incredible. Everyone starts freaking out. No

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Speaker 1: one knows who killed Mr Body or with what weapon.

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Speaker 1: Then Wadsworth reveals his motive for wanting Mr Body to

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Speaker 1: be brought to justice, which is that his wife. His

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Speaker 1: wife was being blackmailed by Mr Body, which led her

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Speaker 1: to end her life. And this is where we get

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Speaker 1: the whole Like Mr Body thought you were all doing

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Speaker 1: something un American. Right, So everyone's bad, no one's good,

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Speaker 1: No one is good. And that's part of what makes

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Speaker 1: Who Done It's fun is that people everyone is usually

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Speaker 1: everyone's a suspect and it's well, I can't wait to

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Speaker 1: talk about Who Done? It's in class anyways. Um okay,

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Speaker 1: Then they find another dead body. The cook has been

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Speaker 1: killed in the kitchen with the dagger, the only woman

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Speaker 1: of color, the only person whose name we don't learn,

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Speaker 1: and then she gets like one or two lines of

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Speaker 1: dialogue before she is murder. Yeah. Yeah, this movie was

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Speaker 1: not thoughtful in terms of um, non white characters really

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Speaker 1: at all. True. Um So, then they all come back

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Speaker 1: into the room, which and I was losing track of

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Speaker 1: what room was what in this movie, but I think

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Speaker 1: they're in the study and Mr Body's body is gone.

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Speaker 1: But then they find it again, in this time it

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Speaker 1: is bloody and he is definitely dead. Right. Then a

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Speaker 1: motorist shows up at the doorstep and needs to use

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Speaker 1: the phone because his car broke down, so they locked

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Speaker 1: him in the lounge. I think, there's so many it's

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Speaker 1: a mansion. You're just like too many fucking rich people

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Speaker 1: in their many many rooms, and they are they're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: a library, a study, a billiard's room, a lounge, especially

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Speaker 1: right now where we're all like locked in small spaces

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Speaker 1: to various capacities, and like, how dare you stiple floors

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Speaker 1: grow up? Not fair? Um, So they locked him in

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Speaker 1: the lounge, and they decided that they should search the

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Speaker 1: rest of the house to make sure there's no one

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Speaker 1: else who might be in there who is just like

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Speaker 1: popping up to commit a murder and then like go

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Speaker 1: back into hiding. So they split into pairs and search

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Speaker 1: the house, and everyone still suspects everyone else of being

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Speaker 1: the murderer. We don't know who has done it. We

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Speaker 1: don't know. They also like kind of uncharacteristic for who

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Speaker 1: done it, Like they don't. The movie doesn't super try

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Speaker 1: to convince you it's any specific person. I feel like,

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Speaker 1: usually who done it? Movies are like, oh, this guy

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Speaker 1: is looking pretty suspicious, but you're kind of just like

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Speaker 1: watching people walk around a really nice house. But but

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Speaker 1: it's fine, that's true. I'm surprised there's not a character

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Speaker 1: named like Mr. Red Herring. Oh, yes, he was the

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Speaker 1: Red Herring, of course, but communism is the red Herring.

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Speaker 1: I guess that's like I'm like, sure, I don't like

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Speaker 1: And then by the time this comes out, it's the

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Speaker 1: reggae administration, so God only knows where everyone's values were at,

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Speaker 1: so the disaster. So they're searching the house, and while

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Speaker 1: they're searching, we see the motorists get murdered with the

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Speaker 1: wrench in the lounge. But by whom, who done it,

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Speaker 1: whom don't know, whom done it, whom's done it. Then

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Speaker 1: Colonel Mustard and Miss Scarlett discover a secret passage, which

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Speaker 1: was how the murderer snuck into the lounge to kill

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Speaker 1: the motorist. Uh. And then a random cop shows up

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Speaker 1: and searches the house and they have to pretend to

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Speaker 1: like make out with the dead bodies. I forgot about

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Speaker 1: that part. I've always forget about and it makes me

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Speaker 1: laugh so much. It's such a funny theme where they're

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Speaker 1: like making out with the corpses, especially the one where

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Speaker 1: they're holding like the cook between two people, and you're

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Speaker 1: just like, oh, it's so it's so cross um, it's

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Speaker 1: a Then Mustard and Scarlet find another secret passage that

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Speaker 1: leads from the kitchen into the study. Then the murderer

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Speaker 1: turns the power off in the house and then in

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Speaker 1: the dark, I know spook and in the dark whoever

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Speaker 1: the murderer is, kills Yvette, the maid with the rope

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Speaker 1: in the billiard's room, then kills the police officer with

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Speaker 1: the pipe in the library. I think there's a book

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Speaker 1: in there. There's a library, could be possible. Um. And

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Speaker 1: then the murderer shoots the singing telegram lady who shows up.

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Speaker 1: So now there are six murders total. And then Wadsworth

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Speaker 1: is like, guess what. I know what happened and who's

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Speaker 1: behind it. He's figured out who done it. How does

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Speaker 1: Tim Curry not get a olden globe for this ending performance?

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. The writing is like not really doing much,

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Speaker 1: but he's like he's like Sebastian Maniscalco, like running around.

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Speaker 1: It's so he's zipping, he's dashing. Um. Yeah. Basically what

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Speaker 1: happens is in order for any of this movie to

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Speaker 1: make sense, he's like, I have to take you through

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Speaker 1: the events of the evening step by step, and then

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Speaker 1: he basically goes into a Caitlin's famous recap where he

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Speaker 1: just recaps the entire movie that we've already seen. If

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Speaker 1: you like fell down, every five seconds of the recap,

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Speaker 1: it's basically the same thing. Yeah, it's just like prop

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Speaker 1: fall after prop I should start doing that. You should, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you'll get a golden globe, thank you. Um. But here's

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Speaker 1: the thing. Some new information gets revealed during this recap,

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Speaker 1: which is that when they first found Mr Body dead,

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Speaker 1: he was only pretending to be dead. And then we

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Speaker 1: also find out that Yvette and the Cook were Mr

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Speaker 1: Body's accomplices that helped him collect info on the people

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Speaker 1: who he would later blackmail. Then Wadsworth figures out that

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Speaker 1: Yvette killed the cook and then killed Mr Body. Um,

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Speaker 1: but who killed Vette and the others who done it? Well,

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Speaker 1: it was miss Scarlett and for reasons that I've already

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Speaker 1: forgotten right in this ending, So this is ending a y.

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Speaker 1: I also was reading about an elusive fourth ending that

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Speaker 1: they shot but cut from the movie because it was

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Speaker 1: They were like it was too stupid. I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it would have had to have been really stupid, because

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Speaker 1: the three that you get are total nonsense. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: um the second one ending b like the movie says,

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Speaker 1: that's how it could have happened. But what if this happens,

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Speaker 1: and it's that Mrs Peacock is the murderer again for

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Speaker 1: reasons I forget what her whole mom about her husband

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Speaker 1: and something no clear physicist, some plan for a fusion

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Speaker 1: bomb or something. It's all very nineteen fifty is. You're

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Speaker 1: like sure, but then we get how the movie claims

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Speaker 1: is what really happened, which is that so basically everyone

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Speaker 1: each person killed one other person. So Plumb killed Mr Body,

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Speaker 1: Mrs Peacock killed the cook, Colonel Mustard killed the motorist,

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Speaker 1: Mrs White killed Yvette, Miss Scarlett killed the cop. Wadsworth

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Speaker 1: killed the singing telegram lady. That's so it's so funny

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Speaker 1: when that they killed the singing telegram lady. She's just like, up,

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Speaker 1: it's so funny. And then it turns out that Wadsworth

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Speaker 1: is Mr Body, so Mr Green shoots Wadsworth because he's

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Speaker 1: an FBI plant. And then all the FBI guys come

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Speaker 1: in and they're like, who we saved a day. We're like,

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Speaker 1: who cops. So that's the story, with its various endings.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break and then we'll come right

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Speaker 1: back to discuss, and we're back. Uh okay, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I think this is a good challenge feminism in clue

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Speaker 1: the movie. I guess I wanted to start with just

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Speaker 1: a little like women in Who Done It's at large

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Speaker 1: because I've seen many, many, many of them. There's pros

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Speaker 1: and cons to the portrayal of women and who Done It?

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Speaker 1: So obviously our most recent who Done It? That did

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Speaker 1: really well was Knives Out. I really enjoyed that movie.

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Speaker 1: I feel like, hopefully we'll probably do an episode on

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Speaker 1: it at some point probably, but yeah, I think that

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Speaker 1: the female characters in that story are fully fleshed out,

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Speaker 1: Like the hero of the story is a woman in

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Speaker 1: and not a person that's in this like, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Nine of these stories concern wealthy white people. A lot

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Speaker 1: of it comes down to like and I think that

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Speaker 1: in some way, I hope that we get Who Done

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Speaker 1: It to take place outside of that world. The closest

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Speaker 1: thing I could find is Identity, which is technically who

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Speaker 1: Done It? And that's like a gritty who Done It?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I saw that John Cusack is in it.

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Speaker 1: I think, yeah, and that at least doesn't like concern

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Speaker 1: rich people. It's still all white people, but it's not

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Speaker 1: all rich people, and it's supposed to be great. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, it's like a fine movie, but in general

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Speaker 1: it concerns wealthy white people trying to figure out who

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Speaker 1: murdered a wealthy white person, and the answer is always

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Speaker 1: another wealthy white person. Um. So, so that is kind

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Speaker 1: of the history of the genre. It's definitely capable of more,

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Speaker 1: but that's basically what it's been so far, kind of

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Speaker 1: including and like with some even though Knives Out has twists,

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Speaker 1: it's still concerns a wealthy white family. Anyways, as far

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Speaker 1: as women go, more women right who Done It? Than

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Speaker 1: men in literature where there is like a huge legacy

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Speaker 1: of female mystery authors that go into the present. Obviously

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Speaker 1: Agatha Christie is the most famous one who wrote who

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Speaker 1: Done It specifically, but there is a huge legacy of

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Speaker 1: female mystery writers, female who've Done It writers and female

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Speaker 1: detectives in media like your Nancy Drew's and Murder she

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Speaker 1: wrote and on and on um And even though her

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Speaker 1: her Keel Poiro is a guy who was written by

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Speaker 1: Agatha Christie's so there's a lot of female representation in

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Speaker 1: on the novel side, there is no female representation in

421
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: the movie adaptations of these female penned stories. None of

422
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,880
Speaker 1: this super applies to Clue because it is being adapted

423
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 1: from a board game. Uh was written and rewritten by

424
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: like four different men before the director ended up getting

425
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,959
Speaker 1: the writing credit. But there was like so many Anthony

426
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: Perkins did a draft of this script. Stephen Sondheim did

427
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: a draft of this script. Tom Stoppard, like the famous playwright,

428
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 1: did a draft of this script, didn't. John Landis also

429
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 1: work on it, see like he has like a story

430
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: by credit. He'd yeah, he he was involved in it

431
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: in the beginning. He was originally supposed to direct. But

432
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: it's with the exception of feminist icon Deborah hill Um,

433
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: who also produced. We've talked about her on the show

434
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 1: before because of her um spearheading the Halloween franchise. But

435
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: with the exception this movie, it's it's like the original

436
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: stories are written by women, and in Hollywood they've only

437
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: i mean, down to Ryan Johnson, basically only been adapted

438
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: by men. So that's kind of the thing. I think.

439
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: I'm curious in your opinion on this, Caitlin. They still

440
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: definitely work misogyny into this story, and they work misogyny

441
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 1: into most of these stories a lot of times. When

442
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 1: you see the room full of rich white people, the

443
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 1: women in the room, are someone's his wife, or they're

444
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: defined by their sexuality. They're never defined by their job.

445
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: They usually take place in the past, which I think

446
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: people use as a justification for them to not have

447
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 1: a job. But what I like about this is like

448
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: a real but like just because of how Who Done

449
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: It has to work? I like that for the story

450
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 1: to work, you have to give the female characters agency,

451
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: otherwise you're not going to suspect them. That's true. So

452
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 1: in that way, I feel like it's one of the

453
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: only movie genres that like. Empowering your female characters to

454
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: a certain extent is like a necessity, And so that

455
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: is partially why I like Who Done It's they're just fun,

456
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: But that makes sense, I don't know. That's that's uh

457
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 1: my context corner for the Who Done It? Appreciate it,

458
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: thank you. It also reminds me of we've had this conversation.

459
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: Not a ton, but I've noticed in various slash or

460
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: movies I've watched that there seems to be gender parody

461
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: in the cast of usually teenagers. But it's because they

462
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: need women there to have sex with the boys that

463
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: are there, so that the women can then be killed

464
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: for having had sex the Um. Yeah, yeah, this is

465
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 1: this is weirdly. I mean it's not a very horny

466
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: movie and I and I like that for this movie.

467
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: This movie does feel like it could have very easily

468
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: been a cartoon, and I mean that is a compliment.

469
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: It is quite cartoony. Yeah, um, so that's the this

470
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: is by far I think, like the goofy like it's

471
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: basically a parody of Who Done It movies, which is

472
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: kind of weird to watch now because they're not very

473
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: popular anymore, or they just became popular again, so you're

474
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: like there are certain tropes that they're making fun of

475
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: that you're like, oh, is that a thing? I guess,

476
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: so whatever. Yeah, I feel like it was far more

477
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: popular in like the film noir era and I have

478
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: a whole thing, a whole spiel on them fatalels. But um,

479
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: it has a resurgence in the seventies as well. There's

480
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 1: a bunch of like solid ones from the seventies. The

481
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: best one, I m oh being the Last of Sheila,

482
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: which is a which is a boat Who Done It?

483
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: And it's really it's really it's super super fun and

484
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: and Anthony Perkins was involved in writing that, which is

485
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: why they asked him to write Clue. Um, it was

486
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: just like it's a lot of people quit clue. No

487
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: one could crack the story, and some could argue they

488
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: never did, they never did. I love when movies are

489
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:39,719
Speaker 1: adapted from a board game or a Disney park ride

490
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: like and then sometimes they have the audacity to be

491
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: fun movies, but it's no wonder when the stories are

492
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: often flimsy at best because the source material is a

493
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: game or a theme park ride. But yeah, and in

494
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: the seventies, you had Murder on the Orient Express, the

495
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 1: original one, you had the Last of Sheila, you had, uh,

496
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: what else did you have? The Beast Must Die? That's

497
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: a that's a weird one. Death on the Nile, that's

498
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: a good one. So like this would be coming like

499
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: off of people would have more of a frame of

500
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: reference than they do for it now, like we basically

501
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: just have knives out. Is really the only who done

502
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: it of our generation? More contemporary one? Sure? Well that

503
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: that brings me to a section of my notes that

504
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: I have entitled women be Murdering. So I'll start there

505
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: hit it and this kind of focuses on the endings

506
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: of the movie. So we've got the three endings. So

507
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: in ending A, which is the one where Yvette kills

508
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: the first two victims and then Miss Scarlett kills the rest, right, Um,

509
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: so that's the that's ending A. Ending B is when

510
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: Mrs Peacock has killed everyone. In all versions of the story,

511
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: Mrs White is thought to have killed various husbands of hers.

512
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: So when you include Mrs White between these first two endings,

513
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: there are four people who have committed murder in either

514
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: the backstory or on screen, and they are all women,

515
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: which reminded me of sort of the film fatale archetype,

516
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: which is something we haven't talked about a lot because

517
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: we haven't really covered any film noir or neo noir.

518
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: I think the closest we got to really talking about

519
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: it was in our Who Frame Roger Rabbit episode, which

520
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: is behind the paywall on the Matreon. But yeah, yeah,

521
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: we haven't discussed it much. Yes, So I felt as

522
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: though at least a few of the female characters in

523
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: the story have some fem fatale traits, especially Miss Scarlett.

524
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: Miss Scarlett for sure, Mrs White. I feel like there's

525
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: some things there. Um. I would like to cover of

526
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: film noir sometime soon, because I think it would be

527
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 1: really interesting to talk about the film fatale trope. Get

528
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 1: on our Cariina Longworth wave. Oh yeah, what's the what's

529
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:06,719
Speaker 1: the really famous one? Double Indemnity. I haven't seen that

530
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: since film school, where I only went once. In any case,

531
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this is a you know, it

532
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: feels like there's these film Fatale like characters present in

533
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: the story, which I couldn't help but notice that, like,

534
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: at least in the first two endings, it's like, oh,

535
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: there are like four evil women who be murdering everybody.

536
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: My main thing is because it's like we have to

537
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: like it is I I kind of wonder and they've

538
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: never leaked what the fourth ending was. I like, was

539
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: there murder parody if you had all four endings, because

540
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 1: it definitely does lean female heavy, and like, because there's

541
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: a fourth one, maybe it ended up being closer. But yeah,

542
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: with the way it ends. My my issue is I

543
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: kind of like that they end up doing the murders

544
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 1: because at least I'm like, well, at least they're doing

545
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: you know, they're active. But my my main thing is

546
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: more how they're like just in a movie that's so

547
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 1: goofy and you can write anyone as anyone. They're still

548
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 1: relegated to being wives, with the exception of Miss Scarlett,

549
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: who I feel like, you know, she she runs a business,

550
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: but I feel like she even is like shoved in

551
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: a corner of like, well, of course she wouldn't work

552
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,399
Speaker 1: for the government like all the men in the room,

553
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 1: you know, she runs. I don't know. I mean, I

554
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: like all the female characters, and I like they're also

555
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: cartoony and fun, and it's kind of a bummer that

556
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 1: all these male writers couldn't imagine past them being wives

557
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: or sex workers like that is I feel like very

558
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 1: telling of the offers because I don't think that there's

559
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: clue I don't I actually I'll look that up. I

560
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 1: don't know if there's board game canon of like the

561
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 1: people that these are supposed to be, because they're given

562
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: like board game canon names. But the characters, like the

563
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,320
Speaker 1: Washington d C Neists is totally inherent to the movie,

564
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: so they could be anybody. Um. So I was bummed

565
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: out by the endless choices and then they were still

566
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: relegated to the same kind of stereotypical roles. And I

567
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,479
Speaker 1: have a feeling like the writers and the filmmakers would

568
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: have justified that by being like, well, we said it

569
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 1: in the fifties, when you know, women were housewives, and

570
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 1: it's like, first of all, not every woman, and secondly,

571
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: you didn't have to do that, and right yeah, like

572
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: uh yeah, that's always such a weak excuse to me.

573
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,760
Speaker 1: I'm just like, no one has a gun to Jonathan

574
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:39,879
Speaker 1: Lynde's head, being like, you better said it at a

575
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: time that was difficult for women, that you could have

576
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 1: easily said that in the eighties, And you're right, like

577
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: women were in the workforce in the fifth plenty of

578
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: women had careers in the fifties. It's it's just kind

579
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 1: of it's just a bummer choice in general, because it

580
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: could be more satisfying to see them do the murders

581
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 1: if they were given I mean, just like comparable motives

582
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 1: to to the male characters. I guess the only like

583
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 1: it's I feel like it's a total waste of Mrs

584
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 1: Peacock and also there's like mrs and ms and like

585
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: they're always given these very like feminine you know, identifiers

586
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: of like is she married or is she not married

587
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,399
Speaker 1: exactly exactly. I mean that's not a problem in her

588
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:32,240
Speaker 1: into clue, but whereas like there's Professor Plum, there's Colonel Mustard.

589
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: You know, they have these like they're defined by their

590
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: jobs jobs, right, So I was disappointed in that. I

591
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: still I Mrs White. I feel like Mrs White is

592
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 1: at least like there is some I guess I wouldn't

593
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: call it like commentary necessarily, but at least with her,

594
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: I feel like they are like poking fun at a

595
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: trope that is seen in these movies of like, I

596
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: feel like she's almost like a little bit of a

597
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: like satirical fem faytale because she femd faytale's in the

598
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: same way over and over and over and over um,

599
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: which is kind of funny. She has a line of

600
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:17,760
Speaker 1: dialogue when she says, um, husbands should be like Kleenex, soft,

601
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,919
Speaker 1: strong and disposable. Yeah, and we're like, yes, feminist icono

602
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 1: Mrs White, because like it's right in that moment when

603
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 1: we find out she's had five husbands who she has

604
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 1: presumably killed them all, and someone asks her like, how

605
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: many husbands have you had, Mrs White? And she's like

606
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,879
Speaker 1: mine or other women's or something like that, and it's like, oh,

607
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 1: so she also like sucks a bunch of other people's

608
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,359
Speaker 1: husbands as well, right, and then she tries to like

609
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 1: seduce Wadsworth at the end, and you're just like, or

610
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: one of the ends, I guess, I don't even remember

611
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 1: which one. They're My favorite Mrs White, Bote is when

612
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 1: she goes, it's a matter of life after death. Now

613
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 1: that he's dead, I have a life, and you're like

614
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: it's all so right around then that she says life

615
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 1: after death is as improbable as sex after marriage, and

616
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: it's like she's like a Cathy comic, Like she's such

617
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: a like she's like a magnet on your mom's fridge,

618
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: Like do you think she's just like really horny. And

619
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: she marries a man and once they get married, they

620
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: don't want to have sex with her anymore, so she

621
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 1: just kills them so she can like marry the next guy.

622
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 1: I kind of like that it's not specified. I feel

623
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 1: like it would have been a very easy throwaway jug

624
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: for them to like label her as like a gold

625
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: digger or like something like that. But we don't know

626
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: why she kills all her husband's were like, that's just

627
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 1: her thing, that's what she does. I stand Mrs White.

628
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: I really like her, and that I found out that

629
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 1: that this was like a very heavily scripted movie. But

630
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: at the end though, like one bit of improv that

631
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 1: made it into the movie was whatever the ending is,

632
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: where she's like explaining why she did it, She's like,

633
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 1: the flames were in my face, the flame the names.

634
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: I guess you just made that up and it stayed.

635
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 1: You can tell that's improvised because it's not very tight,

636
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 1: because that makes no sense. Um, let's take a quick

637
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:21,879
Speaker 1: break and then we'll come right back and we're back,

638
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 1: all right. So my main issue, or one of my

639
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 1: main issues with the movie is the violence that is

640
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 1: enacted against women, which be so okay. So this is

641
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: a movie where there's a lot of cartoony but still

642
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,760
Speaker 1: pretty brutal violence that happens to a lot of different

643
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 1: characters of all genders, such as a bunch of people

644
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: are murdered, but but the way it's done to women

645
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: is different. It's different. Women are assaulted physically or sexually

646
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: to a greater extent, and it's sometimes like not even

647
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 1: as a murder, sometimes it's just as a site gag

648
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: exact where there's a few examples. Yeah, so I I

649
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 1: have a list of examples, Professor Plum grabs Miss Scarlett's

650
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,720
Speaker 1: ass at the very beginning get its own insert shot.

651
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 1: So why it's I guess to establish that he is

652
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,280
Speaker 1: horny because we later find out his backstory of having

653
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 1: his medical license being revoked because he assaulted his female patients, which, again,

654
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 1: like you mentioned, Jamie is played as a joke for

655
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 1: the most part, and he continues to assault women throughout

656
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: the movie. Mr Body grabs Yvette's asked at dinner. Mrs

657
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: Peacock is screaming after she thinks she might have been poisoned,

658
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: and Mr Green slaps her across the face and then

659
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: he goes like what I had to get her to

660
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: stop screaming, And then later Wadsworth slaps her again when

661
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:58,800
Speaker 1: he's recreating that moment with his little recap Yeah with Caitlin,

662
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: and Caitlin has never lapped someone during her recap for

663
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: the record, Um, it's true, but yeah, I mean, I

664
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: think there's a few moments there where it's just like

665
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 1: the joke is, like women be hysterical, right, there's a

666
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: lot of like moments of I mean, and there's a

667
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 1: few moments where men are screaming, but it's far outnumbered

668
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 1: by like usually Mrs Peacock, but also it's it's the

669
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: Yvette at one point. But it's just like, you know,

670
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 1: women be hysterical, is alive and well in this movie, right,

671
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: women be overreacting, women be the women be fainting. We

672
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: have several different it's and I think it's mostly Mrs Peacock,

673
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 1: but she faints a number of times. Then we see

674
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 1: the cook. She pretty early in the story gets murdered.

675
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: Her dead body is lugged and dragged around, dropped, trampled on.

676
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 1: They also like mock her body as well, like they

677
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: make it seem like she's she's really difficult to lift.

678
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: It's just it's so like, I mean, there's only two

679
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: people of color in this movie and they are both

680
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 1: killed almost instantly. And to add insult to injury, yeah,

681
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: the cook does not even get a name, and they

682
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 1: like make fun of her. They body shame her corpse,

683
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,800
Speaker 1: and you're just like what on earth? Totally because she's

684
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 1: a plus sized woman and the movie goes out of

685
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: its way to show how difficult it is for the

686
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 1: other characters to lift her and carry her. And she's like, yeah,

687
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:34,720
Speaker 1: she's totally body shamed, even after her death, and it's horrible. Yeah,

688
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 1: but it's a very body normative casting process, so it's

689
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,320
Speaker 1: very like, it's very agreed aus the way that that's presented.

690
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 1: For a few more examples on this list is that, um,

691
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 1: the characters are looking at Colonel Mustard's compromising sex photos

692
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:55,800
Speaker 1: and Mrs White says, no one can get into that position,

693
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: and Professor Plums like, sure, they can, let me show you,

694
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,240
Speaker 1: and then he like grabs Mrs White kind of pushes

695
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: her down on a couch and then gets on top

696
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: of her to demonstrate this thing, and she's like, get

697
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 1: off of me. Oh. We see Professor Plumb rest his

698
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: hand on the cook's but again after she's dead, for

699
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: no reason, just just to a visual jokes. I guess

700
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: there's a Yeah. I mean, I think most of the

701
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 1: like assaults on women and the I mean none of

702
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 1: them are not jokes. They're all they're all jokes that

703
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:30,240
Speaker 1: the logic is very like this is how you treat women.

704
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 1: But at N eleven right, yeah uh. And then there

705
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,240
Speaker 1: was I think one more that I noticed, which is that, um,

706
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: Colonel Mustard and Miss Scarlett are searching the house together,

707
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: they like go into a dark room, and he's like,

708
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:46,439
Speaker 1: what room is this and she says search me as

709
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 1: in like I don't know, But then he starts groping

710
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,919
Speaker 1: her and she has to be like, get your mits

711
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 1: off of me. So, yeah, it's just women being assaulted constantly.

712
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 1: And then I would argue and there's a whole conversation

713
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 1: to be had about Mr Green's sexuality. But except for

714
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 1: in the third ending when they like undo him being

715
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: a queer man, you assume for most of the movie

716
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 1: that he is gay because he identifies himself as such. Um,

717
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: but I would argue that he is also more brutalized

718
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 1: than the other straight male characters. There's a bunch of

719
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 1: scenes where like there and again, there's a lot of

720
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 1: scenes where like a lot of the characters are being

721
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,839
Speaker 1: rough with each other. But I feel like Mr Green

722
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 1: gets the worst of it because you see that scene

723
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:35,360
Speaker 1: where you know, Wadsworth is dragging him around and throwing

724
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 1: him down on the floor during the recap, and then

725
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 1: he's also slapped twice by two different men at the

726
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: end of the like at the second ending, I feel

727
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 1: like that is supposed to like directly imply that you

728
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: would treat a queer man the way you would treat

729
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:52,399
Speaker 1: a woman. It's just, yeah, the only part of I mean,

730
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: it's Mr Green's character. I mean, it's just it's complicated,

731
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 1: it's weird. I mean there's one yeah, there, you're right,

732
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: there's one ending where they totally undo it and they're

733
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 1: like just kidding, no homo. And that's like the ending

734
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: joke of that version of the movie, because he says like,

735
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:13,840
Speaker 1: I'm an FBI plant and I'm going to go home

736
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 1: and have sex with my wife. Because like, I couldn't

737
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 1: tell if that was like, if that was undoing it,

738
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 1: or if that was him like lying to his coworkers.

739
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure what Oh, I didn't even consider that.

740
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 1: I thought maybe that the way I interpreted it, although

741
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: like I think that it's easily interpreted your way as well.

742
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 1: Was that he because he says at the beginning, like

743
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 1: I'm a gay man, I'm not ashamed of this um,

744
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 1: but if my workplace finds out, I'll be fired. And

745
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 1: at the end he's in front of all his coworkers,

746
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: So I thought he was like, I gotta go have

747
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: sex with my wife. By that very well could be

748
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 1: the case. My interpretation of it was that, like and

749
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 1: this is maybe just like my beck dol goggles like

750
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 1: clouding my vision a little too much sometimes and me

751
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: being very cynical. But I was like, oh, because he's

752
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: allowed to be the hero in this version of the story,

753
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 1: they're not going to allow him to be gay. His

754
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 1: declaration of of being a gay man is was fake.

755
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:13,919
Speaker 1: Listeners sound off. Yeah, I think that there's different ways

756
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:17,240
Speaker 1: to look at it. I guess I'll optimistically hope that

757
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: he is like just kidding, I'm going home to my

758
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 1: communist boyfriend. I hope. I hope that too. Um, but yeah, no,

759
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 1: I do agree that he's like treated physically different than

760
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 1: the identified hetero guys in in the story. Um, it's

761
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: it's frustrating because it's like we have a queer character

762
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: who it's not coded. They stated there's no shame involved

763
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: with it, but even in that scene where he says

764
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 1: like I'm not ashamed of it, you cut to three

765
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: different characters who clearly think it's gross for sure, where

766
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 1: everyone's like what and then and then it's kind of like,

767
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,879
Speaker 1: I mean, like every every like suspect character, you don't

768
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 1: just there's too many. You can't spend that much time

769
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: with them. But then it just kind of like disappears.

770
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't like I like that choice

771
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: for a character, and like in the era they choose

772
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 1: to set the movie in which they did not have to,

773
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 1: but like they do. I like that there's some queer representation.

774
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: I just don't like that how it unfolds and how

775
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,359
Speaker 1: it's really handled. So it's it stinks. The first like

776
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,439
Speaker 1: thirty seconds of it is like really cool, and then

777
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: it becomes not cool anymore because in addition to him

778
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 1: saying like I feel no guilt or shame about that,

779
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 1: the movie allows him to come out himself, like because

780
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 1: is he's outing everyone else's wrongdoings or whatever it is

781
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 1: that they're being blackmailed. Four And then finally it comes

782
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:49,359
Speaker 1: to Mr Green and he stands up and he's like,

783
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 1: here's my thing. So like no one outs him. He's

784
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 1: the only person that's done nothing wrong. Also exactly totally right, um,

785
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 1: but yeah, he like he comes out himself. No one

786
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 1: outs him because like Wadsworth was, you know, revealing everyone

787
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 1: else's secrets. But Mr Green comes out himself to the

788
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: fact that he was. The movie allows him to do

789
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 1: that was interesting and unexpected for me. I kind of

790
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,720
Speaker 1: wonder because there were so many drafts of the script,

791
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 1: it's kind of impossible to track who that belonged to.

792
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 1: But Anthony Perkins was a queer writer. I'm like, maybe

793
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 1: that's an Anthony Perkins thing. I don't know, I wonder,

794
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:33,240
Speaker 1: I wonder, but um, queer visibility in the movie Clue.

795
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'd be interested to hear what our queer

796
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,360
Speaker 1: listeners think about that, and if you have any additional insights,

797
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 1: let us know. Yeah, we already touched on the very

798
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 1: limited number of of people of color in the movie.

799
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 1: The cook the cop are the only two. They are

800
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 1: not given actual names. They're both minor characters who were

801
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 1: killed not long after we meet them. They didn't need

802
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 1: to kill the cop, Like I was like bummed. I

803
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: was bummed out, um, and I always am bobbed out

804
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 1: that day because he's of such a fun character. He

805
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 1: enters and it's kind of fun to have like a

806
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 1: bumbling cop character who's like everything looks fine to me,

807
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 1: and everyone's like, you know, humping corpses and it's funny,

808
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 1: and he's like they're just having a good time, right,

809
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 1: It's so it's so funny. He's like this man's drunk

810
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 1: like dead drunk dead, right, There's there's so much dumb

811
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: word play in this movie. I like it. Um yeah,

812
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,360
Speaker 1: there was no I don't think that that character needed

813
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 1: to die, and he like that's a fun character to

814
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 1: keep in the mix for the rest of the movie. Sure. Yeah.

815
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:42,880
Speaker 1: And then let's not forget the reveal that Mrs Peacock's

816
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:49,320
Speaker 1: favorite recipe was monkey brains quote, though popular in Cantonese cuisine,

817
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 1: are not you know, often found in Washington, d c.

818
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 1: Or whatever. So just a racist little detail that absolutely

819
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:00,919
Speaker 1: didn't need to be there. Yeah, this movie. It's weird

820
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 1: because it's like this movie is very of its time,

821
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: and then it's also very of the nineteen fifties. So

822
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: it's just like two eras that don't farewell for most

823
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:15,280
Speaker 1: people that are not straight white guys. In one movie,

824
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: Tim Curry can't say it enough though he's great, Oh

825
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 1: love him. Things Uh facts about there. There was like

826
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 1: a pretty good um oral history style piece about Clue

827
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 1: that came out, Um, I think in two thousand thirteen

828
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: that just kind of tracks there's not I mean, there's

829
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 1: not a lot of you know, wildness behind the scenes

830
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 1: of this movie. It was written and rewritten by a

831
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 1: bunch of different men, a bunch of writers quit to

832
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 1: the point where the director had to finish it. The

833
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 1: closest thing I could find at any controversy behind the

834
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 1: scenes was the costuming. I guess that Jonathan Lynn definitely

835
00:50:54,760 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 1: needlessly had his female actors where really constrictive corsets during

836
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:04,319
Speaker 1: the course of which is like wasn't even a thing

837
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 1: in the fifties, really, So what is this Titanic right

838
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 1: doing up roses corset? So they all had to like

839
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:16,399
Speaker 1: wear these brutal corsets, and they just like laid out

840
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 1: these like diagonal boards so that if the women like

841
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 1: felt short of breath, they could just lean against the

842
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:26,840
Speaker 1: board and catch their breath and keep shooting. So that's

843
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:32,359
Speaker 1: that's not very thoughtful. Meanwhile, I read that um like

844
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 1: between takes because there's the billiards room where there was

845
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 1: the guys with typical stuff. The men would play pool

846
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 1: and the women had to like, you know, lie down

847
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:47,799
Speaker 1: because of their painful costume. That's cool. Well, and then

848
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:53,800
Speaker 1: speaking of costumes, we've got yvettes French made costume, yes,

849
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 1: which and she's like a French character. I don't even

850
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 1: know what to even say about out Besides like that's ridiculous.

851
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: Her whole character is essentially a visual joke in many

852
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 1: different ways where it's like her her boobs are very

853
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 1: much out, it's a very short like it. It's more

854
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 1: of a French made costume that you would see in

855
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:17,319
Speaker 1: like a soft porn than or like on like Halloween,

856
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 1: like people like I'm a sexy French maid, right, And

857
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:24,319
Speaker 1: it's like the the the actress who who played um

858
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 1: Evette let me get her name, like Colleen Camp, she

859
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,359
Speaker 1: was like completely on board with it. Um. She thought

860
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: it was funny. It wasn't like it wasn't the situation

861
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 1: where she like she didn't want to be presented in

862
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 1: that way. She was, you know, fine, fine with it.

863
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,479
Speaker 1: But I mean, it is just it's such a male

864
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:44,240
Speaker 1: gazy Like there's that really long shot from the top

865
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 1: of the stairs down into her cleavage. That is just

866
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:49,839
Speaker 1: it's a long shot strictly because you're supposed to be

867
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,359
Speaker 1: ogling her boobs. Like that's just as they make they

868
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:55,439
Speaker 1: make a visual joke of her a lot. And I mean,

869
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: I guess that the the only argument for it is

870
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: that the actress was in on the joke in okay

871
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 1: with it, but it's still it's just like it's just

872
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 1: juvenile and dumb, right, Yeah, I mean, if she wanted

873
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 1: to wear it and she was cool with it, you know,

874
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 1: her body, her choice. But but yeah, I mean, I

875
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 1: think in the costuming department, and because it's clear that

876
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 1: the character was written as being presented that way, it's

877
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 1: like a pretty clear like male gaze visual joke. But yeah,

878
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 1: she's cool. So oh. Also, so let's talk about the weapons,

879
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 1: shall we. I was wondering, are there, because we talked

880
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 1: so much about women's weapons, are there any actual weapons

881
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 1: given to women? I couldn't track which weapon went to

882
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:42,319
Speaker 1: which person. Here's what I remember. I didn't write down

883
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 1: exactly who was gifted what, but from memory because there

884
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: are some household objects, but then there's also some weapons.

885
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 1: Professor Plum receives the gun. Okay, Mrs Peacock receives I

886
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 1: think she's the one who gets the dagger, Miss Scarlett.

887
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 1: Miss Scarlett gets the candlestick. So is a woman who

888
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:03,319
Speaker 1: gets the household item at very at least this is

889
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:07,799
Speaker 1: board game cannon, but that's yeah. Mrs White gets the

890
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 1: rope um. Colonel Mustard gets I think the wrench okay,

891
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 1: sort of a weapon, I don't know, a tool more

892
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:20,839
Speaker 1: than anything. Mr Green, which one does he get? Oh?

893
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:24,400
Speaker 1: The pipe? So the main one that's a like domestic

894
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 1: you know, like kind of more. I guess none of

895
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 1: them are very gendered items, except maybe you could argue that,

896
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:37,240
Speaker 1: like the candlestick is like a more decor than anything else,

897
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 1: and if we're yeah, that's I mean, I guess we

898
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 1: do see it in various And again I'm like, I

899
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:46,359
Speaker 1: can't track the endings of this, but the we do

900
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:49,800
Speaker 1: see Yvette shoot a gun, like there's like women do

901
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 1: get to use weapons in this movie, and especially because

902
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 1: in two out of the three endings they are the

903
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:58,439
Speaker 1: culprits for the most Yes, we get to see them

904
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:02,399
Speaker 1: using them. We see if also stabbed the cook with

905
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 1: the dagger, and yeah, that one ending we also but

906
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 1: then we see Yvette kill Mr Body with the candlestick,

907
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 1: which is again, of those items, it's the one that's

908
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:19,760
Speaker 1: the most sort of like domestic item. But then Professor

909
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 1: Plumb uses it too. Can we also revoke him of

910
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:26,919
Speaker 1: his professor title because he's a fucking rapist um While

911
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 1: it's the fifties, he'd never get fired for being a rapist.

912
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 1: Mr Plumb, I'll call him. Uh he uses the candlestick.

913
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 1: So yeah, it feels like there's kind of like it

914
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 1: doesn't feel to me that the movie subscribes to anything

915
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 1: like the women have to use like quote feminine items

916
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:45,399
Speaker 1: and the men get to use like actual weapons. That's

917
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 1: a relief, okay, because I I was I liked that

918
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:49,920
Speaker 1: in I mean, I don't really like all the endings

919
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:52,319
Speaker 1: kind of suck, but but the fact that you do

920
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 1: get to see women like they're not relegated to certain weapons,

921
00:55:56,600 --> 00:56:01,879
Speaker 1: that is that's a pro Yeah, feminist. I on lead pipe, Yes,

922
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 1: I love to see a lead pipe connecting. Um, that's good,

923
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 1: that's good. Yeah. Carrie Fisher was supposed to be Miss

924
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 1: Scarlett in this movie and then um she wasn't able

925
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 1: to do the movie. So that makes me sad she

926
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 1: would have been so goodness, I know. Well, speaking of

927
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:23,280
Speaker 1: Miss Scarlett, I don't remember exactly how much we touched

928
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:25,760
Speaker 1: on this or not. But so she's like a sex worker.

929
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:28,400
Speaker 1: She runs she runs her own business, she runs an

930
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 1: escort service, and she seems to be like proud of

931
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,840
Speaker 1: her work. Um, so whether or not, other characters are

932
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:38,800
Speaker 1: obviously other characters think that her work is on savory

933
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 1: because she's being blackmailed for it, But um, there's no

934
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 1: shame that she feels attached to her work. I like,

935
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:48,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess my I'm like, and this is

936
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:51,239
Speaker 1: like asking more of clue than I could possibly give you.

937
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:53,759
Speaker 1: But it does. Some of the endings get into like, oh,

938
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 1: this was a former employee of hers and blah blah blah,

939
00:56:56,680 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 1: where I'm like, cool, she has her own business. She

940
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 1: is like sex worker representation. But then I'm always like,

941
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 1: but if she's the boss, like, I need some more information.

942
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 1: How does she treat her employees? Also all women? Is

943
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:16,439
Speaker 1: she protecting them? Is she selling them out too? Well? Yeah,

944
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 1: because and that brings that will bring me to some

945
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 1: like motive things I want to talk about. But um,

946
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 1: I think it's the like ending a the first one

947
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 1: we see, she says the line like all members of

948
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 1: the oldest profession, I'm a capitalist. So apparently she loves capitalism.

949
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 1: She well, everyone in this movie loves capitalism so much.

950
00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 1: Um yeah, so I like, like, it's like some representation,

951
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 1: but I don't think it's it's particularly everyone everyone in

952
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 1: this story except for Mr. Green is a horrible person

953
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:54,360
Speaker 1: just canonically their whole bad, bad bad What is it?

954
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 1: Isn't it? Colonel Mustard, you find out that he like

955
00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:00,120
Speaker 1: took like radio parts from different like World War to

956
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 1: um like fighter jets and then it killed a bunch

957
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:07,440
Speaker 1: of like American soldiers and he's like, what, I love money,

958
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 1: I was confused about that. I love I mean that

959
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 1: actor Martin malt like, shout out to him. He's he

960
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:16,480
Speaker 1: is Jane Parmesan, he was, He's bent. He was um

961
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 1: Willard Kraft on Sabrina the Teenage, which he was on

962
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 1: Danny Phantom, and he was on my favorite obscure seventies

963
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 1: um soap opera, Mary Hartman. Mary Hartman, not familiar with

964
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 1: that one. He's a he's a camp icon. He's wonderful.

965
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:37,160
Speaker 1: Everything he does is so goofy um. So yeah. I

966
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 1: want to talk about a little bit about um, the

967
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 1: various women's like motivations for committing murder, because again, in

968
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 1: various endings, we have some of the female characters being

969
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:50,440
Speaker 1: murderers or not um, but the ones that we do

970
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 1: find out about, like in ending C for example, we

971
00:58:54,880 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 1: learn that Mrs White's motive for killing event was like jealousy,

972
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 1: like a vent and her husband and had an affair.

973
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:08,480
Speaker 1: So I thought about that too, but I ended up

974
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:10,960
Speaker 1: landing on being like I kind of it kind of

975
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:12,720
Speaker 1: ended up being a wash for me because she at

976
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 1: least it's not the situation where it's like the woman

977
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 1: will just kill the woman who cheated with the husband,

978
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 1: and the husband gets no come up and she kills

979
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 1: all of her husbands too. Yeah, good point. So, I mean,

980
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 1: I don't like the jealousy motive, but at least if

981
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 1: it had to be any of the female characters killing

982
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 1: someone out of jealousy, at least with her character, it

983
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:37,000
Speaker 1: bugs me less because you know, she's already killed five men,

984
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 1: that's true. Yeah, So let's let's examine some of these

985
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 1: other ones. We've got. Miss Scarlet killed the cop in

986
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 1: ending C, so that one doesn't really Mrs Peacock killed

987
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 1: the cook, so that's a woman killing a woman. But

988
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:58,040
Speaker 1: I forget even why she was the informant or something.

989
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 1: I mean, no one's motivation for murder ring makes sense.

990
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 1: The plot is often nonsensical and it is very difficult

991
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 1: to track. So yeah, maybe, I mean the one that

992
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:09,120
Speaker 1: did stick out to me the most was like the

993
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 1: Jealousy one and ending see at least um and endings

994
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:17,560
Speaker 1: A and B you have Yvette and Miss Scarlett killing

995
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:20,680
Speaker 1: everyone or ms Mrs Peacock killing everyone. I really have

996
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 1: to go back and rewatch what all the motives were

997
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:26,800
Speaker 1: for those women to kill the other women. So maybe

998
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 1: this conversation is just moot. It is kind of hard

999
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:32,440
Speaker 1: to track in terms of the endings, like what is

1000
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:37,040
Speaker 1: like somewhat success and what is just simply bad writing. Um,

1001
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:41,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. Let's see.

1002
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:44,760
Speaker 1: I wanted to point out that, Okay, so a lot

1003
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 1: of attention is brought to the fact that Tim Curry

1004
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 1: steps and dogshit at the beginning of the movie, and

1005
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 1: I kept thinking that was going to pay off in

1006
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 1: Someone Does It at All. There's a few insert shots

1007
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:58,520
Speaker 1: in this movie that you're like, why did you draw

1008
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 1: our attention to? Right? Is that another? But then if

1009
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:05,400
Speaker 1: it never but I can't bear red Harry if it

1010
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:10,520
Speaker 1: never comes up ever, exactly just like it's just bad writing. Um. Yeah,

1011
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 1: it was like, oh, there's probably going to be like

1012
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:15,760
Speaker 1: a poopy footprint that like is a clue, but that

1013
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:20,480
Speaker 1: never happens. No, Yeah, I also didn't I mean, I

1014
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 1: didn't love another like Mrs White choice was. I didn't

1015
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:28,280
Speaker 1: love when they had her like try to seduce Wadsworth

1016
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:31,160
Speaker 1: at the end. I didn't think that that was super necessary.

1017
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 1: But it's I don't all the ending suck. I'm like,

1018
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:38,160
Speaker 1: just the endings are just a full like I don't know.

1019
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 1: Maybe this goes back to the kind of sem fatale conversation,

1020
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 1: but um, in the beginning of the movie, Colonel Mustard

1021
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:49,440
Speaker 1: quotes Kipling, Yes bad person, saying the female of the

1022
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 1: species is more deadly than the male, and it's like, okay,

1023
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:56,919
Speaker 1: is that foreshadowing of some of those endings. I feel

1024
01:01:56,920 --> 01:01:59,560
Speaker 1: like maybe that's as close as the movie gets for

1025
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 1: you to be like, oh, suspicion. But it is weird

1026
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 1: how little the movie tries to get you to suspect anyone.

1027
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 1: They're just like, I don't know. Also, just another fun

1028
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 1: fact I learned was that Mr Bean almost played Tim

1029
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:16,200
Speaker 1: Curry's part, but he wasn't Mr Bean yet and people

1030
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 1: said he wasn't famous enough. Rowan Atkinson. Mr bean visibility

1031
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 1: very low in this movie, very low in this movie.

1032
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 1: You know, Frank Confurter visibility high. I love to and Curry.

1033
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:30,280
Speaker 1: I was thinking about. I think I'm going to watch

1034
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:33,240
Speaker 1: the Tim Curry it soon. I have never seen it.

1035
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:36,880
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Oh it's pretty good. I have some

1036
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:41,160
Speaker 1: issues with it, but Tim Curry as it. I know,

1037
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:45,400
Speaker 1: it's like it has to be great, amazing, love it.

1038
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:48,600
Speaker 1: I'm excited. Um yeah, I think that's about all I

1039
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:51,400
Speaker 1: had to say. Do you have anything else to me? No?

1040
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:54,720
Speaker 1: I mean it's the Rampa Meter. I mean I say

1041
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:57,200
Speaker 1: it's pretty high. It's a ten out of ten on

1042
01:02:57,240 --> 01:03:02,480
Speaker 1: the Caitlin Rampo Meter. Everyone's romp in a way, especially

1043
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 1: Act three when Tim Curry is dashing around the house.

1044
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:09,920
Speaker 1: It gets so so so rompy. Then yeah, I I

1045
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:13,240
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean it's like this movie is so fun.

1046
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 1: It puts me in a good mood. I love Who

1047
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 1: Done It? And I love Who Done It's that don't

1048
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 1: take themselves super seriously? And this is like on the

1049
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 1: far end of that spectrum, but like there's I mean,

1050
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:25,480
Speaker 1: Who Done It? To take themselves very seriously can be

1051
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:29,080
Speaker 1: such a drag. That movie Gosford Park, It's like three

1052
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:31,640
Speaker 1: hours long and you're just like, oh, I need to

1053
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:35,160
Speaker 1: rewatch that. I barely remember that one it's not great.

1054
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 1: I mean it's I think it was like critically acclaimed,

1055
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:41,240
Speaker 1: but it's deeply boring. It's so boring, like you know,

1056
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 1: who done it? They've gotta be fast and they gotta

1057
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:45,600
Speaker 1: be fun and this is a clue? Does it? It's great?

1058
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:47,280
Speaker 1: There's a movie I think you would like. It's not

1059
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 1: really a who Done It? But it takes place in

1060
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:52,760
Speaker 1: the context of like rich family and it all. It

1061
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:56,320
Speaker 1: mostly takes place within their mansion. But that movie ready

1062
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:59,360
Speaker 1: or not? Oh, I haven't seen that. It was fun.

1063
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:01,960
Speaker 1: I liked it a lot. I'm down. I'm like, I'm

1064
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:05,280
Speaker 1: looking for for fun, like thrillers and Who Done It?

1065
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 1: Are are my ship? Like it puts me in a

1066
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 1: good mood. Yeah, So does this movie pass the Bichtel test? Honestly,

1067
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:15,840
Speaker 1: I have no idea because I was too busy trying

1068
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 1: to follow the plot to pay attention to that I was.

1069
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:21,480
Speaker 1: I was also a little unclear. I think that there

1070
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:23,600
Speaker 1: are passing things where there's a few times where like

1071
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:27,480
Speaker 1: Mrs Peacock will say something to Scarlett and Scarlett will respond,

1072
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 1: but there's no there's no scene between two women. There

1073
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 1: is only like women talking to each other in passing

1074
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 1: in the crossfire. But the but often the subtext of

1075
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 1: the conversation is who killed this man? Uh so? Or

1076
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:45,840
Speaker 1: there's a man will respond to a quiet like I

1077
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 1: would say soft. No, there might be some barely passes,

1078
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 1: but I would say probably not right because even though

1079
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:55,760
Speaker 1: there is like pretty even there's like gender parody. Generally

1080
01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:58,040
Speaker 1: some of the side characters who come and then get

1081
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:02,280
Speaker 1: murdered right away. If you include everybody you see on screen,

1082
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:05,360
Speaker 1: there are probably more men. But as far as like

1083
01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:08,080
Speaker 1: the core cast, it feels like there are. It's pretty

1084
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 1: split down the middle. But anytime like characters have to

1085
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:15,080
Speaker 1: pair off together, it's always like a man paired with

1086
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:17,280
Speaker 1: a woman. There's there are no which is kind of

1087
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:22,080
Speaker 1: a bummer. Yeah, definitely no extended conversations between women. Yeah,

1088
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:24,640
Speaker 1: like you said, it might just be like oh, two

1089
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:26,480
Speaker 1: line thing here and there. But again I didn't even

1090
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:29,520
Speaker 1: notice there were. I wrote down my favorite um exchange

1091
01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:35,360
Speaker 1: between two women. This is uh ms Scarlett asking Mrs

1092
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 1: Peacock at dinner. I think this is in response to

1093
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:43,920
Speaker 1: Professor Plum Mr Plum saying that he doesn't practice medicine anymore,

1094
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:47,200
Speaker 1: and Miss Scarlett says, I think most men need a

1095
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:50,440
Speaker 1: little practice, don't you, Mrs Peacock. But of course that

1096
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:53,840
Speaker 1: doesn't even pass because she says men right in the

1097
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 1: damn sentence. But yeah, I kind of stopped. I forgot

1098
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:01,280
Speaker 1: to keep paying attention after the inner scene of like

1099
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 1: women talking to each other. But there are a few

1100
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:07,840
Speaker 1: like again to line exchanges between women, but they're always like, hey,

1101
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:11,960
Speaker 1: Mrs White, what does your husband do? Uh? That's like

1102
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:14,840
Speaker 1: Mrs Peacock asking her things like that. So basically I

1103
01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:19,240
Speaker 1: know I would say no, and I guess let's just

1104
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:22,680
Speaker 1: jump on over to the nipple scale. So this is

1105
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:24,800
Speaker 1: our our nipple scale on a scale of one to

1106
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:28,320
Speaker 1: five nipples. How well do we zero? Zero, zero, sorry,

1107
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 1: zero to five. I've been on this show before the

1108
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:35,560
Speaker 1: zero to five. Based on how well we feel it

1109
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 1: represents women, I'm going to give it. I think between

1110
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:44,560
Speaker 1: how often we see women be assaulted, and even if

1111
01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:47,240
Speaker 1: the women push back against the man who is assaulting

1112
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:50,120
Speaker 1: her in that moment, the movie always frames it as

1113
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:56,240
Speaker 1: a visual joke, and just between everything we've talked about,

1114
01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:59,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to give it maybe a two. Because some

1115
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:02,040
Speaker 1: of the women, like women do often, like you said, Jamie,

1116
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:08,040
Speaker 1: have agency. They have motivations for murdering each other and

1117
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:12,520
Speaker 1: also murdering men. They're doing stuff their active participants in

1118
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:17,360
Speaker 1: the story. I feel like of the discoveries that get

1119
01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:22,640
Speaker 1: made or the clues that get found, and like the

1120
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:26,320
Speaker 1: characters piecing things together, I feel like it's mostly men

1121
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:30,200
Speaker 1: doing that, and it's honestly mostly Wadsworth, like Tim Curry

1122
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:32,600
Speaker 1: seems to be doing a lot of it. But even

1123
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:35,960
Speaker 1: like when they discover like the secret do okay, I

1124
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:39,960
Speaker 1: remember what's his name? Colonel Mustard discovers the one secret passageway?

1125
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:42,760
Speaker 1: Do you remember if it's miss Scarlett that does the

1126
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 1: other wonderful time? I took that as a note as

1127
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:49,640
Speaker 1: well that I forgot to REVERI right. Yeah, all of

1128
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:53,240
Speaker 1: the plan making after them as the murders are being committed,

1129
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:56,320
Speaker 1: all of the plan making is initiated by male characters,

1130
01:07:56,400 --> 01:07:59,520
Speaker 1: and all of all of the major discoveries, unless there's

1131
01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:02,000
Speaker 1: something We're my thing, are made by male characters. But

1132
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:04,520
Speaker 1: it's like Colonel Mustard at one point says Okay, this

1133
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:06,760
Speaker 1: is what we need to do, and then Wadsworth takes

1134
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:08,360
Speaker 1: over and it's like, okay, we're gonna do the short

1135
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:11,000
Speaker 1: stick thing and blah blah blah blah blah, Like women

1136
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:15,080
Speaker 1: don't really initiate the plan ever. Okay, in that case,

1137
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:16,519
Speaker 1: I'm going to drop it down to one and a

1138
01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:19,080
Speaker 1: half nipples. Then it is a really fun movie that

1139
01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:23,720
Speaker 1: I enjoy. But yeah, women aren't given enough to do.

1140
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:27,160
Speaker 1: They're not given any sort of like skill because like

1141
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:29,760
Speaker 1: with the Colonel Mustard thing, being like I'm military, so

1142
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:32,360
Speaker 1: I have a good strategy, Like he's given a background

1143
01:08:32,360 --> 01:08:36,160
Speaker 1: that enables him to like do stuff, whereas all the

1144
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:40,400
Speaker 1: women have her husband's and that's how they are identified,

1145
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:43,040
Speaker 1: except for Miss Scarlett, and even just ends up using

1146
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:47,519
Speaker 1: her sexuality to like try to seduce people sometimes, but

1147
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:49,920
Speaker 1: then she also gets assaulted. It's a mess. One and

1148
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:53,240
Speaker 1: a half nipples, uh, and I'll give I guess I'll

1149
01:08:53,280 --> 01:08:57,040
Speaker 1: just divvy them up between Mrs Peacock, Miss Scarlett, and

1150
01:08:57,160 --> 01:08:59,360
Speaker 1: Mrs White, but also a vet and also the cook. No,

1151
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:01,719
Speaker 1: just kidding, gonna give all one and a half nipples

1152
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:05,200
Speaker 1: to the cook. She deserved far better than she got

1153
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:07,960
Speaker 1: before I give Well, I'm also going to give it

1154
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:10,000
Speaker 1: a one and a half. But I think Alfred Molena

1155
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:14,160
Speaker 1: could have played Tim Curry's part very well. He would

1156
01:09:14,160 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 1: have really been If there is ever a Cluery boot,

1157
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:20,840
Speaker 1: bring him in, he would kill it. And Alfred Willna

1158
01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:23,960
Speaker 1: is never allowed to be identifiably British, so it would

1159
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:27,400
Speaker 1: be a great opportunity for him. True. I think alf

1160
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:31,760
Speaker 1: Milena could have played every single party like this is

1161
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:34,480
Speaker 1: a movie made for him. It's like kind of disappointing

1162
01:09:34,520 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 1: that he was not in it. But and I don't

1163
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:38,840
Speaker 1: mean every character would have been good for him. I'm

1164
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:42,000
Speaker 1: saying he should be cast in every single role all

1165
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:46,240
Speaker 1: uh nutty Professor Eddie Murphy. Yeah, yeah, like when Deep

1166
01:09:46,320 --> 01:09:50,320
Speaker 1: Roy was every Opa loompa in the Yeah, that's what

1167
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:55,720
Speaker 1: I mean. And all Alfred Molina reboot. I swear to go,

1168
01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:57,880
Speaker 1: mark my words, one day Alfred Willna is going to

1169
01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:02,160
Speaker 1: starve my rescpute in movie and then it's over for everybody. Um,

1170
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:04,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give this movie one and a half as well.

1171
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:07,240
Speaker 1: I think that the Who Done It genre has a

1172
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:09,799
Speaker 1: lot of potential for women because you have to empower

1173
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:12,720
Speaker 1: all your characters on a fairly even keel. But I

1174
01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:16,200
Speaker 1: don't think this movie does the best of um making

1175
01:10:16,439 --> 01:10:20,559
Speaker 1: use of that freedom and necessity. UM. I think if

1176
01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:22,920
Speaker 1: there had been a female writer involved or more women

1177
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:25,920
Speaker 1: involved in general. Um, that would probably not be the case,

1178
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:30,480
Speaker 1: but I like, I mean, I just all the performances

1179
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:34,760
Speaker 1: from female actors in this movie are great. Um, I

1180
01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:38,639
Speaker 1: I agree that the cook deserve better, the cop deserve better. Uh,

1181
01:10:38,720 --> 01:10:40,639
Speaker 1: it's a very I mean, it's a very white movie

1182
01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:43,599
Speaker 1: and it's a very white genre. Um that is due

1183
01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:47,800
Speaker 1: for you know, like some just different perspectives because it's like,

1184
01:10:48,600 --> 01:10:50,200
Speaker 1: I'm sure that there's ones I don't know about, but

1185
01:10:50,439 --> 01:10:53,920
Speaker 1: like all the major who done it canon is straight

1186
01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:56,920
Speaker 1: white guys. Yeah, listeners, if you have any suggestions for

1187
01:10:57,200 --> 01:11:01,519
Speaker 1: ones that deviate from that mole, let us know. That

1188
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:03,040
Speaker 1: would be great. Yeah, I mean, and it's like and

1189
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:07,480
Speaker 1: I love Ryan Johnson, but including Ryan Johnson. Uh anyways,

1190
01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:09,960
Speaker 1: uh yeah, one point five. I'm going to give mine

1191
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:12,799
Speaker 1: to Mrs White because I like that she's a stone

1192
01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:19,960
Speaker 1: cold killer. Yeah. Yeah, that's the episode gang. That's all, folks,

1193
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:23,000
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. You can follow us on social media

1194
01:11:23,200 --> 01:11:27,440
Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram. I'm about to disable our Facebook

1195
01:11:27,479 --> 01:11:30,439
Speaker 1: page because I we don't check it, so if you

1196
01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:32,360
Speaker 1: want email us instead, if you want to send a

1197
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:36,879
Speaker 1: message on Facebook or something instead, we have an email address,

1198
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:39,320
Speaker 1: So we always forget to give out. But it's the

1199
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:43,400
Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast at gmail dot com. It's infinitely more likely

1200
01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:46,320
Speaker 1: that we would see that than anything on Facebook. Sorry,

1201
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:51,759
Speaker 1: um so r I p Facebook in general? Uh but

1202
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:53,840
Speaker 1: um but yeah, contact us and then now is also

1203
01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:56,160
Speaker 1: a great time to get on the Matreon wave if

1204
01:11:56,200 --> 01:11:59,400
Speaker 1: you haven't. We've been welcoming a lot of new members

1205
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:02,559
Speaker 1: to the matrio on um but that's Patreon dot com

1206
01:12:02,640 --> 01:12:06,439
Speaker 1: slash Bechtel Cast. There are I think over sixty episodes

1207
01:12:06,479 --> 01:12:10,439
Speaker 1: at this point, um, just additional movies, a lot of

1208
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:12,960
Speaker 1: popular requests that haven't been on the main feed or

1209
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:18,479
Speaker 1: over there. And this month is gathering before a wedding month,

1210
01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:23,080
Speaker 1: and we're we we did Bridesmaids and we're releasing our

1211
01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:27,040
Speaker 1: Hangover episode soon. So yes, all that and more over

1212
01:12:27,080 --> 01:12:30,439
Speaker 1: in the Matreon indeed. Ah, you can also get our

1213
01:12:30,479 --> 01:12:34,400
Speaker 1: merch at t public dot com slash the Bechtel Cast.

1214
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:37,599
Speaker 1: Oh here's another thing I would like to plug. Remember

1215
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:40,679
Speaker 1: when I talked about Sludge earlier, listen to my Sludge

1216
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:43,559
Speaker 1: podcasts were crying out loud. The season two is great,

1217
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:46,360
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you for listening. Um. Yeah, it's a

1218
01:12:46,400 --> 01:12:49,120
Speaker 1: focus on The first season is a focus on my

1219
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:53,400
Speaker 1: personal experience operating within the broken health care system in

1220
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:57,479
Speaker 1: the US, where I was diagnosed with sludge a k a.

1221
01:12:57,720 --> 01:13:00,320
Speaker 1: Gall stones and all the hoops I had to jumped

1222
01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:03,720
Speaker 1: through to get any sort of treatment. Season two is

1223
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:07,960
Speaker 1: an exploration of other people's stories, with a particular focus

1224
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:11,960
Speaker 1: on the bias they have been on the receiving end

1225
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:16,799
Speaker 1: of when it comes to health care professionals being biased

1226
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:22,120
Speaker 1: towards various marginalized people, and how how certain patients have

1227
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:25,920
Speaker 1: had a more difficult time accessing health care because of

1228
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:30,200
Speaker 1: the patriarchal system that we live within. So check you

1229
01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:34,120
Speaker 1: out and listen to my Year and Mensites as well.

1230
01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:36,200
Speaker 1: It's been out for a while, but hey, if you

1231
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:39,479
Speaker 1: didn't now, now now you could. It's not against the

1232
01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:43,440
Speaker 1: law and you should give it a shot. Not like Mooderies,

1233
01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:48,719
Speaker 1: not like murder. Yeah, so, uh you know, it's great.

1234
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:52,320
Speaker 1: I love it so much. Listen to my Year and Mensa,

1235
01:13:52,520 --> 01:13:56,920
Speaker 1: listen to Sludge and um thanks for tuning in. Take

1236
01:13:56,960 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 1: care of yourselves, yeah, do what you can for people.

1237
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:02,760
Speaker 1: Take care of you, your brain and your body, and

1238
01:14:02,840 --> 01:14:04,679
Speaker 1: we love you, We love you. Bye bye,