Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business. Wait inside from the reporters and
Speaker 1: editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus
Speaker 1: global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 1: Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2: Hi, everyone, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business Week Labor Day
Speaker 2: Weekend podcast. Well another week packed with economic and geopolitical
Speaker 2: headlines out of Beijing and coming up this hour, we
Speaker 2: lean into the complicated and vital relationship of China to
Speaker 2: the US and the world with help from two very
Speaker 2: familiar voices.
Speaker 3: Stephan Seelig is a former Undersecretary of Commerce for International
Speaker 3: Trade at the US Department of Commerce, and Andy Brown,
Speaker 3: a seasoned journalist turned consultant who spent three decades in Asia,
Speaker 3: including in Beijing.
Speaker 2: We'll also talk earnings outlook and the corporate I spending
Speaker 2: environment with Splunks President and CEO Gary Steele, and our
Speaker 2: BusinessWeek team tells us why deep fakes could usher in
Speaker 2: the next wave of cyber crime. This is going to
Speaker 2: freak you out. Also dive into the New City's issue
Speaker 2: of the magazine.
Speaker 3: All of that to come. We begin with actual signs
Speaker 3: of progress atop the global hierarchy. This is US Commerce
Speaker 3: Secretary Gina Ramando was wrapping up her trip to China
Speaker 3: and as UK Foreign Secretary James cleverly arrived for the
Speaker 3: most senior British diplomatic visit in five years.
Speaker 2: To help us understand the diplomatic developments along with the
Speaker 2: market and business outlook related to China, return once again
Speaker 2: to Andy Brown, former editorial director at Bloomberg New Economy
Speaker 2: and former China editor for The Wall Street Journal. Today,
Speaker 2: Andy leads the China Hub as a partner at Brunswick Group,
Speaker 2: a critical issues advisory firm. We asked him about the
Speaker 2: significance of the Commerce Secretary's trip.
Speaker 4: The Chinese take Gina Ramando very seriously. They trust her,
Speaker 4: They seem to have a good relationship with her. They
Speaker 4: find her pragmatic, relatively non ideological. And this is really
Speaker 4: quite remarkable given that Gina Raymondo is at the shop
Speaker 4: end of US economic engagement with China, right She's the
Speaker 4: one that presides over this proliferating regime of sanctions and
Speaker 4: export controls and tariffs, which of course this administration inherited
Speaker 4: from the last one, and the Chinese finders deeply threatening. Nonetheless,
Speaker 4: she had a pretty good visit, and her main message
Speaker 4: was no, no, no, we're not here to kill you.
Speaker 4: We don't want to put you out of business. This
Speaker 4: is not decoupling, this is de risking, and that's a
Speaker 4: very different thing.
Speaker 3: Well, what did you make of her comment that she
Speaker 3: argued that China is driving away American companies by making
Speaker 3: investments in the world's second biggest economy increasingly hazardous. She
Speaker 3: said that, Okay, here's the quote, Andy, I know, you
Speaker 3: know it. We talked a little bit about it yesterday.
Speaker 3: Increasingly I hear from businesses China is uninvestable because it's
Speaker 3: become too risky. This is what Gina Ramando told reporters
Speaker 3: Tuesday when she was aboard a high speed train for
Speaker 3: Beijing to Shanghai. What do you investment.
Speaker 2: Flows have been flowing out from foreign investment stairs.
Speaker 4: Which, she said, the right thing. And that's what they
Speaker 4: need to hear because quite often in China, the CEOs
Speaker 4: of the companies that are investing there don't dare speak
Speaker 4: that kind of truth to power. And so you know,
Speaker 4: it takes a genie Raymondo to go over there and
Speaker 4: and say, look, we have a we have a problem,
Speaker 4: and businesses certainly do have a problem now in China.
Speaker 4: It's still I think it's significant though the second part
Speaker 4: of your commentary, she went on a high speed train.
Speaker 4: You know, that's that's interesting, right, That's that's kind of
Speaker 4: a common touch. She hopped the train to go down
Speaker 4: to Shanghai. The Chinese would have liked that. They showcased,
Speaker 4: you know, really unbelievably efficient two hundred mile an hour
Speaker 4: of four and a half hours from from Beijing, which
Speaker 4: is like unbelievable.
Speaker 3: We don't have that here in the US.
Speaker 2: What is it about her that resonates so well with
Speaker 2: Chinese officials, Well, they.
Speaker 4: I think they feel that they can talk to her
Speaker 4: and they're going to get a straight answer. And that
Speaker 4: really was you know, and she she also you know,
Speaker 4: she she's she's constructive, right, so I thought, actually, she
Speaker 4: she handled it in a really smart way. She said, look,
Speaker 4: let let's start by with confidence building matches. So one
Speaker 4: of the things that she's agreed on is that the
Speaker 4: United States and China are going to promote travel right tourism.
Speaker 4: So who can disagree that it would be a good
Speaker 4: thing if more Americans went to China and more Chinese
Speaker 4: people came to the United States. Right, it builds trust,
Speaker 4: builds understanding people to people relations. You know, these countries
Speaker 4: have been separated now for three years under under lockdown.
Speaker 4: Very few flights. Now, I was in Beijing a couple
Speaker 4: of months ago. I was actually staying in four seasons hotel.
Speaker 4: I was the only foreigner in the in the whole hotel. Right,
Speaker 4: I mean the airport is half empty. We need more
Speaker 4: interaction and it's just a great place as smart place
Speaker 4: to stop.
Speaker 3: Well, Andy, talk more about that and give us some
Speaker 3: anecdotes from your recent trip there, because you've spent so
Speaker 3: much time in the country. I know this is post pandemic.
Speaker 3: You went there kind of during the pandemic too, when
Speaker 3: you were helping with you know, with the Olympics for NBC.
Speaker 3: But but just give us the differences that you see
Speaker 3: now based on your recent trip.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well it I mean you've got to go. I
Speaker 4: mean you have to go there to feel this. Oh,
Speaker 4: the sense you get by talking to people on the street,
Speaker 4: my friends, people in the business community, people are kind
Speaker 4: of in shock, you know, I mean I understand this,
Speaker 4: you know, the the the you know, the consumer confidence
Speaker 4: has really been shattered. I mean, people I think feel
Speaker 4: really kind of discombobulated, this disoriented. I mean, what just happened.
Speaker 4: You know, we went through a three a three year lockdown,
Speaker 4: and it was quite painful. I mean, you talk to
Speaker 4: people in Shanghai, they're suffering from something like post traumatic
Speaker 4: stress disorder. Right. These are these are you know, middle class,
Speaker 4: upper middle class families that didn't know if they were
Speaker 4: going to spend that night in bed in their own
Speaker 4: homes or be carted away to some isolation center, or
Speaker 4: if their kids would be taken from them, or if
Speaker 4: guys in white hazmat suits were going to burst through
Speaker 4: the front door, you know, and drag them out or
Speaker 4: put a lock on the outside of the door. They
Speaker 4: didn't know sometimes if they could even feed their families, right,
Speaker 4: And they've been so used to a government that looks
Speaker 4: after all this, that you know, is focused on growth,
Speaker 4: focused on on you know, on development, and it just
Speaker 4: seems like, you know, they're lurching from one blunder to another.
Speaker 4: And you know, the business business confidence obviously is has
Speaker 4: has yet to recover, and the and the confidence of
Speaker 4: foreign investors. And that's what Gina Raymondo was was speaking to.
Speaker 4: You know, people got so used to the idea that
Speaker 4: Chinese supply chains were secure, right, and you could put
Speaker 4: them all in China. That's what Apple did, the whole lot.
Speaker 4: And look what Apple's doing now. You know, it's starting
Speaker 4: at the margins, pulling it out, you know, putting it
Speaker 4: in places like Vietnam, India. It's all about now D risking.
Speaker 3: My question, Andy, is if China is doing so poorly
Speaker 3: in its attempted recovery from three years of lockdowns, if
Speaker 3: the consumer is so weak, if the concerns about shadow
Speaker 3: banks crumbling and not paying people back, do American companies
Speaker 3: really want to invest in China?
Speaker 4: You know, Tim, I think it's so important to put
Speaker 4: this into perspective. China is not collapsing, okay. China is
Speaker 4: suffering from what some people call the four d's. You've
Speaker 4: got a demographic crisis, you have a debt crisis, you
Speaker 4: have a decoupling problem, you have a deflation problem. The
Speaker 4: headlines look terrible, and it is extraordinary. The Chinese economy
Speaker 4: is barely growing right now, and the US economy is
Speaker 4: steaming ahead. I think it's growing what six percent? A
Speaker 4: complete role reversal, right, But China is the world's second
Speaker 4: largest economy, and it's going to be the second or
Speaker 4: third largest economy for decades to come. Right, it's not
Speaker 4: going away. I think what we can expect big picture
Speaker 4: a starting now, a period of slow relative decline. Businesses
Speaker 4: still must be in China, right, They can't ignore China,
Speaker 4: and particularly the businesses that are reliant on China for
Speaker 4: future growth, luxury, chemicals, auto and so on. In those
Speaker 4: industries they're pouring investment in. They have to. I mean,
Speaker 4: you can't be half hearted in China. You've got to
Speaker 4: be all in because the competition there is really good.
Speaker 4: So if you're there and you're dependent on growth, you
Speaker 4: have to invest to keep up with the market. You
Speaker 4: have to invest in technology so that you're able to compete.
Speaker 4: And in fact, some of these companies have an aggressive
Speaker 4: strategy of investment. It's called in China for China, right,
Speaker 4: So they're buying local companies, they're investing in technology. If
Speaker 4: you don't have to be in China right now, you
Speaker 4: don't want to be in China. If you've never been
Speaker 4: in China, you're certainly not going to go there for
Speaker 4: the first time now. And if you are in China,
Speaker 4: money investment that you might have put into China over
Speaker 4: and above the need to fuel and fund your footprint there.
Speaker 4: You're now looking at that money and say where else
Speaker 4: could I put it? Should I put it in Vietnam,
Speaker 4: or in India, or in Mexico, or I might say
Speaker 4: here in the United States, which is one of the
Speaker 4: hardest investment destinations in the world right now. I think
Speaker 4: the way to think about it is that you know,
Speaker 4: China is a giant, right It is an economic giant.
Speaker 4: It's manufacturing sector is bigger than the United States and
Speaker 4: Europe combined. Okay, And this year it's going to it's
Speaker 4: going to leap ahead of Japan become the world's largest
Speaker 4: auto export. It's gobbling up the world's evy markets. It's
Speaker 4: a giant, but it's a giant with a weak hot Okay,
Speaker 4: and that's going to make it less mobile, it's going
Speaker 4: to make it more prone to crisis. But it's still
Speaker 4: a giant.
Speaker 3: That was Andy Brown. He leads the China Hub as
Speaker 3: a partner at Brunswick Group. More from Andy available on
Speaker 3: our podcast feed, including his take on Russian President Vladimir
Speaker 3: Putin's plans to visit China next month.
Speaker 2: Coming up more in the US China relationship. From a
Speaker 2: person who once had a front row seat to their
Speaker 2: political power struggle while serving in the executive branch.
Speaker 5: The number of issues that we're competing on are growing,
Speaker 5: but also the number of issues that we need to
Speaker 5: cooperate on are also growing.
Speaker 2: Stefan Seelig, former Undersecretary of Commerce for International Trade at
Speaker 2: the US Department of Commerce, joins us.
Speaker 3: Next, you're listening to Bloomberg BusinessWeek. This is Bloomberg.
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Speaker 6: There's no negotiation, there is no room to negotiate when
Speaker 6: it comes to protecting Americans national security, including protecting emerging technology.
Speaker 6: But at the same time, there's business we can do
Speaker 6: and there's business to be done.
Speaker 2: Those words from US Commerce Secretary Gina Ramando this past
Speaker 2: week during her multi day trip to Beijing and Shanghai. Now,
Speaker 2: in our last segment, Andy Brown explained the importance of
Speaker 2: her stressing the need for improved ties between the world's
Speaker 2: top two economies.
Speaker 3: We're now pleased to welcome in Stefan Sea League, managing
Speaker 3: partner at Bridge Park Advisors. Before that, he served as
Speaker 3: the Undersecretary of Commerce for International Trade at the US
Speaker 3: Department of Commerce. That was during the Obama administration, and
Speaker 3: we got his perspective on the current state of US
Speaker 3: China relations and the intersection between geopolitics, policy, and markets.
Speaker 5: When I was under Secretary, I spend more time in
Speaker 5: China than any country by far, and I work to
Speaker 5: foster the relationship with my counterpart at the Ministry of
Speaker 5: Commerce to reflect that reality.
Speaker 2: But did they rank this relationship as important and do
Speaker 2: they still? You think today?
Speaker 5: For sure, And in many respects, I think they view
Speaker 5: it as more important because the number of issues that
Speaker 5: we're competing on are growing, but also the number of
Speaker 5: issues that we need to cooperate on are also growing.
Speaker 5: So as their economy grows and as they look to
Speaker 5: establish themselves as a major player both in political, economic
Speaker 5: and commercial spheres, you know, their ability to work effectively
Speaker 5: with the United States becomes only more important. And I
Speaker 5: think that's exacerbated right now, Carol, because frankly, you know
Speaker 5: their economy is slowing, and they're facing a set of
Speaker 5: economic issues that we haven't seen or they haven't seen
Speaker 5: in decades. Clearly, China has different interests politically and economically
Speaker 5: and commercially than we do. And you know what I've
Speaker 5: always said is, you know, hitting China over the head
Speaker 5: with a cudgel is not going to be an effective
Speaker 5: way to actually make progress. And what we need to
Speaker 5: do is to look for win win outcomes where there
Speaker 5: are things that advance our interests and advance their interests,
Speaker 5: and they're a whole.
Speaker 2: Host of those se fun If I may, I'd love
Speaker 2: to talk to you a little bit about politics, because
Speaker 2: we were just talking a lot about the importance of
Speaker 2: that relationship between US and China. The Republican presidential hopefuls
Speaker 2: the debate last week talked a lot about China. There
Speaker 2: was a lot of pushback. Is that cause for concern
Speaker 2: when you see that? I know some of it is
Speaker 2: all just grandstanding and performance, but some of it is not.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess, Carol, you know it's really not just
Speaker 5: the Republicans. In fact, the only thing I can think
Speaker 5: of where the Republicans and Democrats seem to be agreeing
Speaker 5: is getting tough with China, and I think there's a
Speaker 5: little bit of a contest between them as who can
Speaker 5: appear to be tougher with China. And I don't think
Speaker 5: being tough is necessarily always being smart, and so, you know, frankly,
Speaker 5: I think the conversation that should be about what should
Speaker 5: we be doing to advance our interests as opposed to
Speaker 5: what should we be doing just to punish China?
Speaker 7: Is that a cause for concern at all?
Speaker 5: Well, for sure, especially just as I mentioned, you know,
Speaker 5: with China's economy being under pressure, I think the last
Speaker 5: thing we want to do is push them so hard
Speaker 5: that they lash out and take actions that would be
Speaker 5: adverse to us, and we get into this, you know,
Speaker 5: tit for tat because you know, as you've said, you know,
Speaker 5: these are the two biggest economies in the world, and
Speaker 5: we can punish each other plenty, and that doesn't really
Speaker 5: help us.
Speaker 2: Would you want to be back in the White House
Speaker 2: advising well.
Speaker 5: You know, look, I think it was it was an
Speaker 5: honor for you to, you know, do that during the
Speaker 5: Obama administration, and I think you know, to the extent
Speaker 5: that you know you are called to do that, I
Speaker 5: think it's a really hard thing to turn down for
Speaker 5: any of us that care about our country.
Speaker 7: When you're looking at some of the Republican candidates, who
Speaker 7: kind of stands out in your mind that when you're
Speaker 7: thinking about the US and China relations as far as
Speaker 7: what could be a potential viable candidate in that sort
Speaker 7: of realm.
Speaker 5: Well, I'm not sure that that's an easy answer, Chess,
Speaker 5: because as I've said, I think there's just a lot
Speaker 5: of a lot of piling on. And I also would say,
Speaker 5: is you know, what people say on the stage in
Speaker 5: the you know, primary season is probably not necessarily going
Speaker 5: to directly inform their policies. You know, if they get
Speaker 5: into the they get into the oval.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 5: That being said, you know, I think this has to
Speaker 5: be you know, on the radar screen for whoever is
Speaker 5: sitting in the Oval office because of the importance not
Speaker 5: only you know, geopolitically, but commercially and economically for you know,
Speaker 5: employment in our country, the success of our economy and
Speaker 5: our consumer Well, and.
Speaker 2: I'm curious to stuff on about your clients and those
Speaker 2: CEOs that you are talking about, you know, is US
Speaker 2: China typically top of mind for them? Or I'm curious
Speaker 2: what is if it's not.
Speaker 5: That you know, there's a lot of trepidation about going
Speaker 5: into China, and I think especially and that really, I
Speaker 5: think is the purpose of the Secretary's trip, which is
Speaker 5: to really re establish a dialogue so people can begin
Speaker 5: to plan, because if the relationship is so uncertain and
Speaker 5: so voluable, it's very difficult for companies to you know,
Speaker 5: effectively plan. And if you can't plan, you can't make investments.
Speaker 5: And so I think, you know that is is just critical.
Speaker 7: And especially when you're talking about companies, the curbs that
Speaker 7: are being put on chip makers, how much of that
Speaker 7: do you think when you're especially this is companies that
Speaker 7: have performed very well in the stock market this year.
Speaker 7: But I mean, when it comes to those types of companies,
Speaker 7: what do you think that would really mean for them?
Speaker 7: And when it comes to doing deals with China, well.
Speaker 5: Look, it's it's a very big market and we've seen
Speaker 5: them take actions including blocking you know, Intel's acquisition of
Speaker 5: an Israeli chip company, which is really adverse to the
Speaker 5: interests of a of a US of a US company. Uh,
Speaker 5: And so that that really is the point about you know,
Speaker 5: they have the ability to respond in kind I would say,
Speaker 5: or I will say, some of the things we have done,
Speaker 5: I scratch my head a little bit, like the bump,
Speaker 5: the like the recent executive order that that is limiting
Speaker 5: private equity and venture capital investment in you know, advanced
Speaker 5: chip making and other sectors. It strikes me that, you know,
Speaker 5: the one thing that China you know, doesn't lack for
Speaker 5: is capital. And so the notion that somehow we are
Speaker 5: going to constrain their development by not having US investors
Speaker 5: invest in certain sectors and their economy is not just
Speaker 5: something that I can easily follow the logical.
Speaker 2: So in terms of you know, going back to some
Speaker 2: of the things, is that the folks that you work with,
Speaker 2: your clients and CEOs on their top of mind, what
Speaker 2: else you know, in a day where we talk constantly
Speaker 2: about FED policy, higher inflation, are persistent and sticky inflation,
Speaker 2: even though it's down a lot in the past year,
Speaker 2: what else is kind of top of mind?
Speaker 5: I would say, there are really two things. One is,
Speaker 5: you know, is inflation going to be tamed? And what
Speaker 5: is the FED going to have to do in terms
Speaker 5: of raising interest rates in the future to make sure
Speaker 5: you know that happens? You know, are we going and
Speaker 5: if you look at historical data, you know, you really
Speaker 5: do have a you know, short window four or five
Speaker 5: months to really have a good view about what the
Speaker 5: economy is going to do. And I think you know,
Speaker 5: over the next four or five months, folks are not
Speaker 5: worried about dipping dipping into a recessionary period, but forecasting
Speaker 5: for a period that is longer than that is exceedingly
Speaker 5: hard to do. And the question is going to be
Speaker 5: if they have to raise interest rates, you know, once
Speaker 5: twice or three more times, which I think you know
Speaker 5: is not out side of the realm of possibility. To
Speaker 5: what degree does that have a dampening impact on growth
Speaker 5: in our country?
Speaker 7: How much does China's disinflation actually help the US?
Speaker 5: Well, it certainly doesn't help their consumer and it doesn't
Speaker 5: help you know, their economic engine, which is we've talked
Speaker 5: about Jess is so important for us in terms of
Speaker 5: being a buyer of US goods and services.
Speaker 3: That was Stefan sea League. He's managing partner at Bridge
Speaker 3: Park Advisors and a former Commerce Department official.
Speaker 2: Still ahead on Bloomberg Business Week, we go from national
Speaker 2: security to cybersecurity, which affects both the public and private sectors.
Speaker 3: Splunk CEO Gary Steele breaks down the IT spending boom
Speaker 3: that helps spur his company's big earning speed. This is Bloomberg.
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Speaker 2: So, Tim, I don't know if you've noticed quite rally
Speaker 2: in shares of the infrastructure software company Splunk. Have you seen?
Speaker 3: I mean now, I have.
Speaker 2: Up roughly forty percent year to date, trading at a
Speaker 2: fifty two week high this past week and soaring on
Speaker 2: its recent quarterly update, which came out a little more
Speaker 2: than one week ago.
Speaker 3: Splunk reported second quarter revenue that beat estimates and raised
Speaker 3: its full year forecast beyond expectations. Analysts called the results
Speaker 3: solid overall, noting the better annual recurring revenue as well
Speaker 3: as the upgraded forecast. Let's get more from the man
Speaker 3: at the helm, Splunk President and CEO Gary Steele. You
Speaker 3: know we've been hearing a lot about when we hear
Speaker 3: from companies. We like to hear how you know their
Speaker 3: customers are doing, because it gives us an idea of
Speaker 3: the economy. How are your customers doing?
Speaker 8: Yeah, it was interesting. In our second quarter we saw
Speaker 8: very much the same macro conditions that we'd seen in
Speaker 8: prior quarters, and so where it impacted US is we
Speaker 8: saw some hesitation in cloud migrations because these represent new
Speaker 8: projects that have to be funded and while the ROI
Speaker 8: and getting to the cloud is amazing, you still have
Speaker 8: to fund the actual migration effort. And then we saw
Speaker 8: continued deal scrutiny, so deals elongating or requiring additional signatures.
Speaker 8: I think the one positive thing for US is I
Speaker 8: think we understand it now and I think our team
Speaker 8: did just a phenomenal job executing within that environment and
Speaker 8: understanding that, yes, there will be more reviews and more
Speaker 8: scrutiny on deals, but we executed quite well, really part
Speaker 8: of the team.
Speaker 3: Reviews and scrutiny are one thing, but what about deals
Speaker 3: falling through?
Speaker 8: Again, we saw more consistency in terms of just scrutiny,
Speaker 8: and I think there was more I'd call it just stabilization.
Speaker 8: So I think going into the court of people knew
Speaker 8: what dollars they were going to be able to spend.
Speaker 2: All right, So how would you describe then, the corporate
Speaker 2: IT spend environment generally? Is there a word Gary to say,
Speaker 2: because I think it helps us in a big way
Speaker 2: understand kind of what to come maybe for the rest
Speaker 2: of the year and what maybe is going on in
Speaker 2: the economy.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think there's there still remains a high level
Speaker 8: of scrutiny on every dollar being spent by the IT community,
Speaker 8: and while I think we've executed well within that environment,
Speaker 8: we anticipate no change. As we work through the second half,
Speaker 8: we will continue to see this level of scrutiny and
Speaker 8: hesitations as it relates to us in this category of
Speaker 8: cloud migration. So we're expecting no change and we and
Speaker 8: that's how we've thought about providing our guidance for the
Speaker 8: go forward quarterers.
Speaker 2: It's cool talking about you and I got this off
Speaker 2: your website. Fifteen thousand customers, one hundred and ten countries, Zoom, Intel,
Speaker 2: Coca Cola, Carnival, Arii, Airbus, and many more. It's it's
Speaker 2: the world, it's the universe, if you will. So what
Speaker 2: types of companies are leading the spend though? Which ones
Speaker 2: might there be some hesitation.
Speaker 8: You know, we saw pretty pretty consistent behavior across verticals
Speaker 8: our business we've had as an exact, but we do
Speaker 8: a lot of work with the government and governments around
Speaker 8: the world. That's been relatively consistent for us and a
Speaker 8: big growth opportunity. Today, roughly two thirds of our business
Speaker 8: is domestic, one third is international. We continue to see
Speaker 8: a lot of opportunity working with international customers to take
Speaker 8: advantage of the capabilities we can offer. But from a
Speaker 8: buying point of view, buying perspective, it was pretty consistent
Speaker 8: around the globe.
Speaker 2: Can we talk about what you guys do, because you
Speaker 2: also have your own AI offerings, which I know you
Speaker 2: guys put out last month, But cybersecurity company, I feel
Speaker 2: like that's a big bucket, right, infrastructure software company, big bucket.
Speaker 2: So just walk for those who might not be familiar
Speaker 2: familiar with your almost nineteen billion dollar market cap company,
Speaker 2: which they should be, tell us about exactly what you do.
Speaker 8: You bet we help organizations drive digital resilience across their
Speaker 8: cyber environment. So how do we ensure that they're well
Speaker 8: protected and they understand what's going on in their cyber environment?
Speaker 8: This is particularly important as we face new SEC disclosure
Speaker 8: requirements where you have to notify your shareholders within four
Speaker 8: days of a material event. We're at the core of
Speaker 8: helping organizations figure out what the heck happened and how
Speaker 8: can you make meet that four day deadline. And then
Speaker 8: we extend broadly into the observability market meaning worre core
Speaker 8: to helping organizations keep their digital applications up and running
Speaker 8: so that their customers can get access to all of
Speaker 8: those services. So helping them understand if something happens to
Speaker 8: one of those applications, what's going on and how do
Speaker 8: you get it up and running quickly, and try to
Speaker 8: anticipate those events. Where AI plays a role for US
Speaker 8: is helping across security and broader infrastructure anticipate things, so
Speaker 8: trying to get better outcomes faster, so teams can be
Speaker 8: more efficient in what they do every day. So and
Speaker 8: for example in the security operations center, just making it
Speaker 8: easier to operate and get to better outcomes faster without
Speaker 8: all the manual work.
Speaker 2: So with the AI euphoria, how do you think about
Speaker 2: it in terms of is it really something that this
Speaker 2: next gen AI generative AI really going to take so
Speaker 2: many different industries to a different level. It's it's the
Speaker 2: real mcgilla if you will.
Speaker 8: Yeah, No, I'm super enthusiastic about it. I feel like
Speaker 8: we can deliver much better outcomes for our customers leveraging
Speaker 8: the power of AI and simple things that we've already introduced.
Speaker 8: So to use plunk, you use, you interact with it
Speaker 8: with a proprietary language. Well, with the generative AI, we
Speaker 8: can give you a human interface. So just ask what
Speaker 8: you want and we will help you go find it
Speaker 8: and do it. And so then we generate all that
Speaker 8: proprietary language on your behalf and you don't have to
Speaker 8: have that knowledge or understanding. So our ability to take
Speaker 8: down the skills required make it so much easier to
Speaker 8: interact with our product. We're very bullish on that. You know,
Speaker 8: it's still early and I think there's a lot of
Speaker 8: hype in the market generally, but I think at the
Speaker 8: end of the day, we can make a real difference
Speaker 8: in one who can interact with their product and then
Speaker 8: the outcomes that can be delivered as a result of that.
Speaker 8: And this is a journey. It doesn't happen overnight, but
Speaker 8: we can continue to chip away at this and make
Speaker 8: real progress. I think it will be transformational in our
Speaker 8: industry because we deal with such rich data sets, and
Speaker 8: in that world, you can get great outcomes from AI.
Speaker 3: When you when you're leveraging the when you're leveraging AI
Speaker 3: for your customers, who are the suppliers that you're using.
Speaker 3: Are you getting chips from Nvidio? Are you getting chips
Speaker 3: from AMD?
Speaker 8: So we think about it from a cloud perspective, and
Speaker 8: so we're going to the cloud service providers, and we're
Speaker 8: leveraging the cloud service providers to be able to deliver
Speaker 8: those AI capabilities. We're not directly buying or setting up
Speaker 8: data centers, we're not directly buying in video chips and
Speaker 8: systems housing in Vidia chips. We're going to the cloud
Speaker 8: service providers to get those capabilities.
Speaker 3: Look in Amazon Web Services.
Speaker 8: Or Microsoft Amazon Amazon. We just announced a relationship with
Speaker 8: Microsoft as it relates to bringing our native cloud solutions
Speaker 8: to the Azure platform. And then we have a relationship
Speaker 8: with Google as well for GCP. So we find demand
Speaker 8: across those and we're leveraging their relationships ultimately all the
Speaker 8: way through the chip providers.
Speaker 2: How much do those relationships kind of impact your top
Speaker 2: and bottom lines or give you kind of some window
Speaker 2: into consistency for growth for your company.
Speaker 8: So one, they're very critical. There are critical strategic partners
Speaker 8: for us. There's two dynamics here. One is we allow
Speaker 8: our customers to buy through the marketplaces of each of
Speaker 8: those cloud service providers, meaning you can go and leverage
Speaker 8: the credits you have for AWS or now with our
Speaker 8: relationship with Microsoft, you can leverage your Azure credits, so
Speaker 8: it makes buying easier. And then we work closely with
Speaker 8: them to ensure you get a great technical outcome. So
Speaker 8: you guys asking about chips et cetera, we can make
Speaker 8: sure that we're well tuned for whatever systems they bring
Speaker 8: to bear, and how we can make sure that our
Speaker 8: customers are getting the maximum TCO.
Speaker 3: I want to end Gary, just kind of where we
Speaker 3: begin and getting your view on what the economy looks like,
Speaker 3: what's your read.
Speaker 8: I believe we were going to see the same for
Speaker 8: some period of time. We haven't built that into we
Speaker 8: haven't built any improvement into our guidance. And I think
Speaker 8: that I believe we're in a soft landing mode that
Speaker 8: we're going to continue to see some conservatism, but we'll
Speaker 8: work our way out of this over time.
Speaker 2: And we'll certainly be watching them over time. Our thanks
Speaker 2: to Gary Steele. He's the president CEO of cybersecurity software
Speaker 2: maker Splunk. We spoke with him just after the company's
Speaker 2: second quarter earnings release back on August twenty fourth.
Speaker 3: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Up next, our magazine
Speaker 3: team picks up on the digital security theme and tells
Speaker 3: us why some researchers fear AI powered hacks on the
Speaker 3: verge of breaking out.
Speaker 9: The technology is there right now that someone could actually
Speaker 9: make themselves look like your boss in real time on
Speaker 9: Zoom call. And that's just utterly convincing. I mean, and
Speaker 9: it's only going to get even more convincing. And even
Speaker 9: when there are little, you know, glitches here and there.
Speaker 9: We all know what it's like to be on a
Speaker 9: Zoom call or on Microsoft Teams call.
Speaker 10: You kind of expect that to be a little.
Speaker 9: Drop in in boys, or maybe something going a little
Speaker 9: bit off.
Speaker 10: It's kind of the nature of the video call.
Speaker 9: So it could be one of the most convincing social
Speaker 9: engineering attacks to emerge.
Speaker 2: I'm a little freaked out, are you.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Deep fakes are a little concerning to me.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, we're going to get into the dangers
Speaker 2: of the deep faked video call.
Speaker 11: We explain it all.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
Speaker 1: live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app,
Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome, everyone to the next wave of cybercriust.
Speaker 12: Thank you for the one.
Speaker 1: Welcome.
Speaker 2: All right, we're talking about something that yes, also has
Speaker 2: an AI artificial intelligence angle. Some cybersecurity experts have long
Speaker 2: feared what a hacker might be able to do with
Speaker 2: AI and video create a convincing version of you know,
Speaker 2: a corporate executive who really wants to know your password.
Speaker 2: AI software is now capable of doing this practically in
Speaker 2: real time, meaning tim a hacker could pretend to be
Speaker 2: your boss on a zoom call. Does that freak you out?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it totally freaks me out. It's a new reality, though,
Speaker 3: and it's one that's based on deep fakes. With more
Speaker 3: on this recent BusinessWeek story, we welcome in Margie Murphy,
Speaker 3: Bloomberg News cybersecurity reporter, along with the editor of the
Speaker 3: magazine Joel Weber.
Speaker 11: There's been all this the hope and the hype for AI,
Speaker 11: but immediately on the other side of that are also
Speaker 11: all the bad things that can do. And what really
Speaker 11: stood out to me on this one was the fact
Speaker 11: that this deep fake stuff will become the thing that
Speaker 11: we will obsess about, I think, in the years ahead,
Speaker 11: because it basically can sneak through and has already proven
Speaker 11: to be a real pain. So, Margie, what are we
Speaker 11: talking about when we talk about the deep fake videos
Speaker 11: and why are people so scared of it?
Speaker 9: The thing that's fascinating about this is in terms of
Speaker 9: kind of cyber crime. It's cyber criminals can use kind
Speaker 9: of the oldest tricks in the books, which is to.
Speaker 10: Just try and convince employees to give them information.
Speaker 9: They don't need to hack in or try and infiltrain
Speaker 9: these systems. They can just literally ask to be let in.
Speaker 9: And they're doing that using real time deep fakes. I
Speaker 9: say they're doing that, they could possibly be doing that
Speaker 9: using real time deep fix and we are seeing it
Speaker 9: advertised and the technology is there right now that someone
Speaker 9: could actually make themselves look like your boss in real
Speaker 9: time on a zoom call. And that's just utterly convincing.
Speaker 9: I mean, and it's only going to get even more convincing.
Speaker 9: It could be one of the most convincing social engineering
Speaker 9: attacks to emerge.
Speaker 2: So have we already seen it start to happen?
Speaker 9: So in the case we talked about in this story,
Speaker 9: it's gals Or a security researcher who I spoke to
Speaker 9: who had no absolutely no background in machine learning or
Speaker 9: any kind of AI stuff, and it just took him.
Speaker 9: He thought, you know, I've been hearing about this deep
Speaker 9: fake stuff. People been talking about its potential use in
Speaker 9: this way.
Speaker 10: Can I just do this myself in a manner of weeks?
Speaker 9: And he did, and he did it really, really convincingly,
Speaker 9: and he deep faked his boss. We haven't heard of
Speaker 9: this actually being used to copy a boss and actually
Speaker 9: be able to extract money from any employees or passwords.
Speaker 10: Or have an effective attack. However, Google put out.
Speaker 9: A blog saying that they could see people offering these
Speaker 9: services on forums on hacker forums already, so the appetite
Speaker 9: seems to be there already. We're just waiting to hear
Speaker 9: about the first case when company goes public about it.
Speaker 7: Doctor us about the chairman of cyber or software. It's
Speaker 7: that information security company, and how basically discovering recently how
Speaker 7: powerful these types of attacks could be. What exactly happened there?
Speaker 2: It sounds like they're team was on it and ready
Speaker 2: to freak him out.
Speaker 10: Yeah, well so I mentioned Gal as researcher. Yeah, so
Speaker 10: he works with cyber Arc. And to kind of flip
Speaker 10: it back to you, Udi.
Speaker 9: The chairman mccalady of cyber Arc, he received a Microsoft
Speaker 9: team's message one morning.
Speaker 10: He was that in his office.
Speaker 9: He opened it up and there he sees himself on
Speaker 9: his laptop screen asking him whether he could present himself
Speaker 9: at a hacker conference showing how convincing a deep fit
Speaker 9: could be.
Speaker 10: And he was like, what is this? What's going on?
Speaker 9: And turn out Gal the researcher had done you know,
Speaker 9: he hadn't even spent that much time creating a kind
Speaker 9: of mini not a sophisticated deep fake. And he used
Speaker 9: that to say like, hey, Udi, this is going to
Speaker 9: be a thing. Maybe we should get ahead of this.
Speaker 3: Bloomberg's Margie Murphy with us there. Reader full story online
Speaker 3: at bloomberg dot com, slash BusinessWeek, or on the terminal.
Speaker 3: Joe Weber is sticking around for our next segment, and that.
Speaker 2: Wraps up our first hour of the weekend edition, holiday
Speaker 2: edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Ahead. In
Speaker 2: our next hour, we break down the latest installment of
Speaker 2: the magazine, a special double issue dedicated to cities from
Speaker 2: the Big Apple to Nashville to a so called forest
Speaker 2: city in Malaysia. This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser.
Speaker 3: And I'm Tim Stinebeck. Stay with us today's top stories
Speaker 3: and global business headlines coming up.
Speaker 1: Right now, you're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast.
Speaker 1: Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Easter
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Speaker 1: can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship
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Speaker 8: We've got to.
Speaker 2: Treat a head. In our second hour of the holiday
Speaker 2: weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week, We've got a deep
Speaker 2: dive into our special issue of the magazine. It's out
Speaker 2: now on newsstands, online, and of course always on the
Speaker 2: Bloomberg terminal. It's the annual Cities issue, a collaboration between
Speaker 2: the magazine team and city life.
Speaker 3: The issue takes on a broad look at what the
Speaker 3: world's urban centers are facing and explores ideas to improve them,
Speaker 3: especially as the COVID pandemic fades from view. Our network
Speaker 3: of reporters traveled to some of the world's most famous
Speaker 3: cities and others you've probably never heard of, with dispatches
Speaker 3: on the impacts of political intrigue, environmental uncertainty, and shifts
Speaker 3: in the global economy.
Speaker 2: Let's now welcome in the team of BusinessWeek Technology editor
Speaker 2: Joshua Breustein, who oversaw this special issue, Bloomberg City Lab
Speaker 2: editor David Dudley's steering the City Lab coverage, and once
Speaker 2: again BusinessWeek editor Jill Weber.
Speaker 11: When we started talking about this, I was like, you know,
Speaker 11: we don't have to kill our says, we don't need
Speaker 11: to go big, and Joshua was like, actually, I was
Speaker 11: planning to do like a full issue takeover, and I
Speaker 11: have like all these amazing stories, and I was like,
Speaker 11: oh my god, this is going to be amazing. So
Speaker 11: he tested it, and I think, you know, part of
Speaker 11: the framing that we wanted to look at here is
Speaker 11: look here we are a couple of years after COVID,
Speaker 11: although hey, cases still ticking back up and cities are
Speaker 11: still in that after math, and we wanted to kind
Speaker 11: of like look at a few of the ways that
Speaker 11: that's continued to play out and then find some of
Speaker 11: those really startling, amazing stories that I'm sure we'll spend
Speaker 11: a little bit more time talking about, including yesterday. But Josh,
Speaker 11: where were the places that when you sort of architected
Speaker 11: and you started from blank white pages and these exercises,
Speaker 11: like where did you want to make sure that we
Speaker 11: got to visit?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 13: I think there were a couple of things. For the
Speaker 13: Last City's issue. Actually, I had written about the idea
Speaker 13: of trying to build a new city from scratch, and
Speaker 13: so I know there's been a lot of effort around
Speaker 13: the world to do this. And on my list of
Speaker 13: places to look at was a place called Forest City
Speaker 13: in Malaysia, which is a city that is being constructed
Speaker 13: on what will eventually be if all goes according to
Speaker 13: plan for artificial islands, have about seven hundred thousand people
Speaker 13: on it. And the interesting thing about this city is
Speaker 13: that it was all based on the idea that the
Speaker 13: Chinese real estate market is just booming. It was being
Speaker 13: built by Country Garden, which whose name you might recognize
Speaker 13: if you've been paying attention to.
Speaker 2: The No, we never talk about it.
Speaker 3: China real estate market booming and Country Garden are two
Speaker 3: things we talk about quite a bit.
Speaker 2: Yes, we do go ahead.
Speaker 13: So one of the islands has been constructed. There is uh,
Speaker 13: there's room for not seven hundred thousand residents, but certainly
Speaker 13: I think in the tens of thousands, and things have
Speaker 13: kind of ground to a halt. They've ran into trouble
Speaker 13: with COVID. Now there's serious questions about demand, and so
Speaker 13: we sent a really talented reporter there to look around,
Speaker 13: to talk to people, and just to kind of see
Speaker 13: what is happening with one of these big audacious projects.
Speaker 11: Yeah, that real estate element attached to China, and it
Speaker 11: just really was a timely look at a place that
Speaker 11: you know, I think we're all very, very curious and
Speaker 11: concerned about. So David, I want to bring you in
Speaker 11: because the City Lab was obviously totally instrumental in this.
Speaker 11: There there was an idea that Josh and I were noodling,
Speaker 11: and then Josh was like, actually I talked to David
Speaker 11: and we should do what they're doing. But David tell
Speaker 11: us about where we went with that initial kernel.
Speaker 14: So, yeah, so we had this project going where we
Speaker 14: were similarly kind of intrigued by and sort of astonished
Speaker 14: by the amazing kind of energy intensity of concrete production,
Speaker 14: which is something like eight nine percent of all carbon
Speaker 14: released in the atmosphere every year, and it's rivaled by
Speaker 14: steel production, and in many countries brick production, which is
Speaker 14: an even older material, is also intensely polluting. And so
Speaker 14: we had been neeling around with this idea of having
Speaker 14: a whole series about what we call this Stuff of Cities,
Speaker 14: which is just sort of a dive into the history
Speaker 14: and the past and the present in the future of
Speaker 14: the most essential building blocks of urban life. And we
Speaker 14: were able to sort of convert that idea into this
Speaker 14: really lovely looking kind of print and online pack that
Speaker 14: looks at not only concrete and steel and brick, but
Speaker 14: also glass and asphalt and wood, sort of the oldest
Speaker 14: material of the of the six that is kind of
Speaker 14: coming back into vogue as a as a kind of
Speaker 14: economically and environmentally useful building materials for all kinds of skyscapers.
Speaker 2: Well, David, I don't want to get too upset since
Speaker 2: he's really into concrete. But what is replacing concrete?
Speaker 14: Well, that's the thing. Nothing can replace concrete. It is
Speaker 14: it is this miraculous artificial stone that has been a
Speaker 14: absolute kind of foundational material since Roman times. What we
Speaker 14: can do is we can we can devise ways of
Speaker 14: making it a little less polluting and hopefully a lot
Speaker 14: less polluting eventually. So there are there are techniques to
Speaker 14: fire it at lower temperatures. You know that the firing
Speaker 14: process of making cement is intensely kind of energy absorptive.
Speaker 14: There's chemical processes that can involved, there's adding more recycled elements,
Speaker 14: and there's also sort of being a little more flexible
Speaker 14: about how you use it and using different kinds of
Speaker 14: concrete for different applications. So what we were sort of
Speaker 14: fascinated by was how sort of the history of these
Speaker 14: materials to sort of tracked human civilization and how we
Speaker 14: are kind of simultaneously in desperate need of more of
Speaker 14: this and in desperate need of finding a way to
Speaker 14: clean up these industries. And each of these sort of
Speaker 14: industries faces their own different challenges with sort of finding
Speaker 14: the raw materials and finding ways to make it less destructive.
Speaker 3: All right, So we talked about building materials. There's again
Speaker 3: it's the city's double issue, so everything in it is
Speaker 3: about cities. It's a collaboration with Bloomberg City Lab Joel Weber.
Speaker 3: There's a story a column in here by Joshua Green.
Speaker 3: It's about how GOP legislators are increasingly imposing their economic
Speaker 3: and cultural priorities on left leaning municipalities, places where perhaps
Speaker 3: a lot of New Yorkers Californians have moved during the pandemic. Nashville, Tennessee.
Speaker 3: What's the latest dispatch from Josh.
Speaker 11: So what's really interesting about this one was this, and
Speaker 11: this was a story that major props to Josh Bruce
Speaker 11: Dean for collaborating initially on Josh Green on this one.
Speaker 11: With Josh Green on this one. But this tension between
Speaker 11: blue cities and red states really came to a head
Speaker 11: earlier this year, and we asked Josh to go to Nashville,
Speaker 11: where so much of this has really been culminating and
Speaker 11: give us sort of a dispatch because one interesting thing
Speaker 11: about this is that blue city red state relationship has
Speaker 11: been actually like an incredible economic arrangement that everybody's benefited from.
Speaker 11: But what we're beginning to see is that red states
Speaker 11: are kind of cracking down and a certain authority on
Speaker 11: what heretofore been democratic strongholds, and that alliances sort of
Speaker 11: or a relationship is sort of now in flux in
Speaker 11: a way that we're going to have to be watching
Speaker 11: how this plays out, because GOP is looking for more
Speaker 11: and more ways to pick up not only like talking
Speaker 11: points that they can launch onto, but also ways that
Speaker 11: they can affect change, and targeting Blue City seems to
Speaker 11: be one of the ways that they can see immediate
Speaker 11: reactions with.
Speaker 14: It's a tension that has always sort of kind of
Speaker 14: been kind of woven into the landscape. The nature of
Speaker 14: urban life tends to require a certain set of policy solutions,
Speaker 14: and there is often a real kind of pushback from
Speaker 14: community members who don't see those policy solutions as reflecting
Speaker 14: their values, and that has manifested its way in all
Speaker 14: sorts of interesting and troubling ways. It really kind of
Speaker 14: got weaponized in a dramatic way, certainly in the Trump era,
Speaker 14: but it's always been sort of kind of humming beneath
Speaker 14: urban relationships.
Speaker 11: Okay, I got one more thing I want to bring up,
Speaker 11: which as much as I talked about concrete to Josh.
Speaker 11: The other thing was, look like I want to I
Speaker 11: want to feel like cities are working, that they have answers,
Speaker 11: that they're trying to improve people's lives, and that or
Speaker 11: there are other people who have ideas to fix them.
Speaker 11: And you know, we started with this idea of real
Speaker 11: estate a little bit and Pat Clark did this element
Speaker 11: that we kind of turned into the first thing we
Speaker 11: had in ways to fix cities. And obviously we've spent
Speaker 11: a lot of time talking about the problems with commercial
Speaker 11: real estate and empty office space. And Pat came up
Speaker 11: Josh with such a novel idea rooted in a real
Speaker 11: estate listing that he saw what was the big takeaway
Speaker 11: that we all need to get hit with.
Speaker 13: Yeah, this was a really great insight from Pat. I
Speaker 13: mean I started bugging Pat about doing something about converting
Speaker 13: offices into apartments early on in this. You know, it's
Speaker 13: something that we've been talking about a lot. It's hard
Speaker 13: to say something new about it because everyone said a
Speaker 13: lot about it, and so I kept bugging him and
Speaker 13: eventually he said, well, I've talked to a couple of
Speaker 13: people who came up with this idea, Like, why are
Speaker 13: we trying to make these things nice apartments, why don't
Speaker 13: we just make them really crappy apartments in the same
Speaker 13: way that in the same way that in Soho in
Speaker 13: the sixties, you know, those sweatshops that they turned into lofts.
Speaker 13: Those weren't nice lofts, but people, but tastemakers moved in
Speaker 13: and they loved them. And so the idea is, like,
Speaker 13: what if we can just make you know, the fluorescent
Speaker 13: lighting and the gray carpeting be sort of the drafty
Speaker 13: windows and the exposed brick of the you know, of
Speaker 13: the Soho of today.
Speaker 3: Just incredible work from BusinessWeek Technology editor Joshua Brustein and
Speaker 3: Bloomberg City Lab editor David Dudley on the City's issue.
Speaker 3: It's out now online, it's on newsstands and on the terminal.
Speaker 3: And Joe Weber, the editor of Bloomberg BusinessWeek, he's going
Speaker 3: to be with us later this hour. And by the way,
Speaker 3: josh mentioned Country Garden there, the Chinese developer this week,
Speaker 3: warning that it made default on it's dead and raise
Speaker 3: concerns about staying in business after posting a record first
Speaker 3: half loss of almost seven billion dollars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's through money. We continue to follow this for
Speaker 2: the latest just check out Bloomberg dot com you are
Speaker 2: listening to Bloomberg BusinessWeek coming up. We touched on it
Speaker 2: with our panel just a few moments ago. A political
Speaker 2: conundrum facing left leaning municipalities in the center of Republican strongholds.
Speaker 3: BusinessWeek national correspondent Josh Green details which blue cities and
Speaker 3: red states are becoming targets for Republican lawmakers. This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: If you're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast, catch
Speaker 1: us live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2: The Republican led states across the south of the United States,
Speaker 2: legislatures are increasingly interfering in the governance of democratic cities
Speaker 2: by blocking liberal reforms and often dictating conservative policies in
Speaker 2: their place.
Speaker 3: Left leaning cities like Austin and Dallas, Texas, Jackson, Missus Zippy,
Speaker 3: and Kansas City, Missouri have all seen GOP lawmakers try
Speaker 3: to impose their economic and cultural priorities, and nowhere is
Speaker 3: the trend of state superseding cities more pronounced than in Nashville.
Speaker 2: Tennessee, an interesting trend, certainly ahead of a big political
Speaker 2: year for US here in the US Well, Bloomberg BusinessWeek
Speaker 2: National correspondent Josh Green writes all about the glaring racial
Speaker 2: and political divide permeating Music City in the new double
Speaker 2: issue of Bloomberg BusinessWeek, the annual Cities issue. Josh joined
Speaker 2: us from Washington while Tim and I were on site
Speaker 2: at the US Open in New York this past week.
Speaker 12: What's happened across the countries that as policymaking has kind
Speaker 12: of gridlocked in Washington and nothing really happens. The real
Speaker 12: political battleground who shifted to the states the cities like Nashville,
Speaker 12: where you have this clash of largely urban democratic cities
Speaker 12: that are within the borders of increasingly aggressive Republican red states.
Speaker 12: We see this across the South, and I think Nashville
Speaker 12: is the most famous recent example where a lot of
Speaker 12: the political battles that used to be fought in Washington
Speaker 12: are now being fought at an urban level as the
Speaker 12: two parties really fight to apply their policies. In the past,
Speaker 12: states had often deferred the city government and take sort
Speaker 12: of hands off approach, and what we're seeing more and more,
Speaker 12: particularly in Nashville, is that Republicans are stepping in in
Speaker 12: order to apply the policies they like, whether it's economic policies,
Speaker 12: gun control, racial policies, transgender issues, and basically forcing it
Speaker 12: on what, in many cases are unwilling residents who have
Speaker 12: a different set of political views. And it's become a
Speaker 12: very contentious thing there and across.
Speaker 3: The country, Josh, as you right, Tennessee is hardly alone.
Speaker 3: This type of thing is happening in Texas, in Austin,
Speaker 3: in Dallas. In Mississippi, Republicans created a separate police force
Speaker 3: and court system for a majority white part of the
Speaker 3: heavily black capital city of Jackson, even prompting the US
Speaker 3: Department of Justice to file a complaint calling the move
Speaker 3: quote racially discriminatory. Right, My question for you is you
Speaker 3: use the term battle, but it doesn't actually seem like
Speaker 3: it's a battle that Democrats are winning. It seems like
Speaker 3: Republicans are crushing Democrats at every turn here.
Speaker 12: Well, a lot of this is tied up in court,
Speaker 12: but I think what's happening is is that these local
Speaker 12: politics are being influenced by national politics and then in
Speaker 12: turn influencing those politics in what happened in Nashville. I'm
Speaker 12: sure most listeners will remember there was a horrific shooting
Speaker 12: earlier this year at a Nashville Christian school, which led
Speaker 12: to a lot of gun violence protests in Nashville and
Speaker 12: a very contentious scene on the floor of the state
Speaker 12: House where two black legislature legislators were kicked out of
Speaker 12: the kicked out of the legislature for protesting gun violence
Speaker 12: by the Republicans that control it. And it became you know,
Speaker 12: national news that this heavily urban community which wanted gun
Speaker 12: control and you know, measures to remedy these kind of
Speaker 12: awful shootings were being stifled and overrun by the Republican legislature.
Speaker 12: An example that I use in the piece is there's
Speaker 12: been a series of police shootings black men over the
Speaker 12: past few years, and Nashville had responded by creating a
Speaker 12: community Oversight board of residents that worked with Nashville police
Speaker 12: to try and lessen these things, impose remediation measures, and
Speaker 12: where appropriate, helped to single out and punish the officers
Speaker 12: that were breaking the law doing this. This is something
Speaker 12: that seemed to be working until earlier this year when
Speaker 12: Republicans came in and said nope, we're not going to
Speaker 12: allow this anymore, and passed the law that simply abolished it,
Speaker 12: which upset a lot of people in Nashville who felt
Speaker 12: like this was working. And it's just one example of
Speaker 12: Republicans essentially stepping in and applying their values in places
Speaker 12: that oftentimes have a different set of political values. And
Speaker 12: so it leads to the kind of contention and culture
Speaker 12: wars that we see on everywhere from MSNBC to Fox News.
Speaker 12: And the fact that in a lot of these Southern
Speaker 12: states some particular Republicans have such a large majority goes
Speaker 12: right to your point that yes, it really isn't a
Speaker 12: battle in a sense that they're being forced to live,
Speaker 12: as one Democrat told me, under Republicans alien culture.
Speaker 2: So, Josh talk to us about the Nashville mayor, John Cooper,
Speaker 2: because it sounds like politics runs in his family several generations.
Speaker 2: He is not actually going to run for reelection, talked
Speaker 2: to us about his frustrations.
Speaker 12: So I spent a day with John Cooper, who is
Speaker 12: Nashville's Democratic mayor. Not a bleeding heart liberal, a kind
Speaker 12: of a you know, a centrist, pro business, practical democrat
Speaker 12: with an MBA who used to be a real estate
Speaker 12: developer and was elected in twenty nineteen on a platform
Speaker 12: a fiscal discipline in economic growth that he had really
Speaker 12: hoped would appeal to Republicans and Democrats. And you know,
Speaker 12: he's what's really happened is that we've hit the culture wars.
Speaker 12: I mean, there were you know, there were COVID mask
Speaker 12: mandates and fights over that. There were fights between state
Speaker 12: Republicans in Nashville which and want to host the twenty
Speaker 12: twenty four Republican Convention. And there's been a lot of fighting,
Speaker 12: even down to the level of fighting over street names
Speaker 12: in Nashville. Republican legislators tried to rename a street in Nashville.
Speaker 12: It was named for the late Democratic civil rights icon
Speaker 12: John Lewis as President Donald Trump Boulevard. And you know,
Speaker 12: my sense being with Cooper, I mean, on the one hand,
Speaker 12: his mayoralty has been a tremendous success economic. Nashville has
Speaker 12: recovered economically from COVID better than almost any city. The
Speaker 12: city is growing, it's lively. There are cranes everywhere, people
Speaker 12: are out and about. It's a great place to be.
Speaker 12: But on the other hand, it is in the crossfire,
Speaker 12: this culture war where Republicans are trying to do everything
Speaker 12: from takeover the airport to the sports authority to cutting
Speaker 12: the city council to fighting over street names. And it's
Speaker 12: striking to me politically because throughout most of my lifetime,
Speaker 12: Tennessee actually had a reputation as being a very practical,
Speaker 12: mind minded, bipartisan state where it was sort of an example,
Speaker 12: like a positive example of what the political South could
Speaker 12: look like and how people of all backgrounds could work together.
Speaker 12: And now here we are, and that's been completely flipped
Speaker 12: on its head, not just in Nashville, but in cities
Speaker 12: across the country.
Speaker 2: All Right, Josh, so talk to a little bit more
Speaker 2: about what's going on in Nashville, why it's happening, and
Speaker 2: bring in if you would, John's brother, Jim Cooper, who
Speaker 2: was representing the Nashville area in Congress for sixteen terms.
Speaker 2: You talk about when a plumber comes to visit, it's
Speaker 2: like the political divide was so in your face. I mean,
Speaker 2: you see it when somebody feels differently or strongly politically.
Speaker 12: John Cooper, the mayor, comes from a famous Tennessee political family.
Speaker 12: Their father, Prentiss Cooper, was a Democratic governor of Tennessee
Speaker 12: back in the nineteen forties, and his brother, Jim Cooper,
Speaker 12: is somebody I've known for decades. Had represented Nashville in
Speaker 12: Congress since about nineteen eighty two as a centrist blue
Speaker 12: dog Democrat with a reputation for bipartisanship. Well, last year,
Speaker 12: the Republican Legislature re drewmandered his district, chopped it up,
Speaker 12: and apportioned it among three other conservative districts, which essentially
Speaker 12: forced him into retirement. And it's a great example of
Speaker 12: just the win it all costs mentality that is now
Speaker 12: like eclipsed what used to be the kind of practical
Speaker 12: minded bipartisan cooperation that had marked Tennessee politics in the
Speaker 12: eighties and in the nineties. And you know, Cooper was
Speaker 12: the one that had said to me, you know, we're
Speaker 12: in a situation here where we're almost like a colony
Speaker 12: in Republicans who don't live in Nashville, who have different
Speaker 12: views than people who live in Nashville, have come in
Speaker 12: and forced us to live under this alien culture. And
Speaker 12: it has caused a lot of grief and contention on
Speaker 12: everything from as I said, you know, gun control issues,
Speaker 12: police reform, and oversight to even the name of the streets,
Speaker 12: whether they should be named after republic plis or Democrats.
Speaker 12: And I think the distressing part about it for people
Speaker 12: in Nashville is there's really no end in sight to
Speaker 12: this contention that anyone can see.
Speaker 3: Thanks to Bloomberg Business Week national correspondent Josh Green, the
Speaker 3: full conversation is available on our podcast feed, and that
Speaker 3: Josh's story is the very first one featured in this
Speaker 3: year's Cities issue. You can find that online, on newsstands
Speaker 3: and always on the Bloomberg terminal.
Speaker 2: Still to come. On Bloomberg Business Week, we go from
Speaker 2: the modern American city to an ancient one on the
Speaker 2: other side of the world.
Speaker 3: We delve into the complex case of the West Bank's
Speaker 3: Jericho Gate development. This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast. Catch us
Speaker 1: live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern on Bloomberg Radio,
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business App, and YouTube. You can also listen
Speaker 1: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station,
Speaker 1: Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 2: We continue with our coverage from the double issue of
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Business Week it's the annual Cities issue that we've
Speaker 2: been talking about, in which our reporters span the globe
Speaker 2: to bring you the stories affecting modern urban life.
Speaker 3: Among them is a piece about a real estate boom
Speaker 3: emerging within the Palestinian held West Bank, where Arab Israelis
Speaker 3: are purchasing luxury homes in Jericho and adding a new
Speaker 3: dynamic to their complex relationship with other Palestinians as well
Speaker 3: as Jewish Israelis.
Speaker 2: Taking us to the development known as Jericho Gate is
Speaker 2: once again Bloomberg Business Week editor Jill Weber and Bloomberg
Speaker 2: News Israel Bureau chief Ethan Browner.
Speaker 15: Of course, the West Bank is occupied, militarily occupied by Israel,
Speaker 15: and it is no fun to live under occupation. It
Speaker 15: is a difficult situation for many. But what I learned
Speaker 15: is that despite that, there has been a Palestinian business
Speaker 15: class that has decided to build vacation villas with pools,
Speaker 15: for there are several hundred some thousands of Palestinians who
Speaker 15: can afford it. And now the complicated thing here re
Speaker 15: is also that there are three kinds of Palestinians involved,
Speaker 15: those who live under occupation in the West Bank, those
Speaker 15: who live in Jerusalem, which is a kind of occupation,
Speaker 15: but they have special IDs because Israel considers all of
Speaker 15: Jerusalem it's capital. And then there are those who are
Speaker 15: Israeli Arabs, who are citizens of Israel, and all three
Speaker 15: populations have grown wealthier, I don't want to say wealthy,
Speaker 15: but wealthier in the last twenty years, because Israel has
Speaker 15: become very, very wealthy compared to what it was generation ago.
Speaker 15: And therefore there is kind of a room for vacation
Speaker 15: homes for people who live nearby.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 15: The other thing that's so interesting is that the Israeli
Speaker 15: Arabs were not really mixing with those of the West
Speaker 15: Bank for many years. Now they are And one of
Speaker 15: the questions the story raises is what that might mean
Speaker 15: politically in the future.
Speaker 2: Can we just take a step back and just talk
Speaker 2: about the development itself and what's inside the walls and
Speaker 2: kind of what surrounds it.
Speaker 15: Sure, so this is just outside the city of Jericho,
Speaker 15: and as Joel mentioned, one of the very oldest cities
Speaker 15: in the world, lowest city on the planet as well,
Speaker 15: and just near the Dead Sea. And so you have
Speaker 15: a whole group of Palestinian developers who created villas with
Speaker 15: walls around them, typically three bedrooms, three bathrooms with a pool,
Speaker 15: pretty big pool fied by ten meters. And these are
Speaker 15: vacation homes that sell for a quarter of a million dollars,
Speaker 15: which is a pretty good price in most places for
Speaker 15: a vacation villa like that. And there is a big
Speaker 15: development around. They're still building it, but the plan is
Speaker 15: for going to be a couple of three or four malls,
Speaker 15: a water park and other kinds of tourism things. So
Speaker 15: the idea is to make it a real a place
Speaker 15: of attraction for people visiting from within Israel and palestinin
Speaker 15: areas and from outside.
Speaker 3: There's an incredible quote in your story. One of the
Speaker 3: subjects says, Jericho is booming despite the checkpoints in occasional war.
Speaker 3: People can make money here.
Speaker 12: That's right, that's right.
Speaker 3: I mean, what is the looming threat of war described that?
Speaker 15: Look, I mean there have been is there, you know,
Speaker 15: there there is tension. I mean, nobody wants to live
Speaker 15: under military occupation. So there are young men who are
Speaker 15: armed who are go after Israeli soldiers and Israeli settlers,
Speaker 15: and then the Israeli army comes in and tries to
Speaker 15: quote unquote restore order from its perspectives. So there in
Speaker 15: January there were there was a shooting at a restaurant
Speaker 15: where Israeli's go and the Israeli military went into a
Speaker 15: refugee camp near Jericho Gate and killed five guys, and
Speaker 15: the course of trying to restore the situation to the
Speaker 15: stems quo ante. So that's what that means. And at
Speaker 15: any given time there could there have been two so
Speaker 15: called intifadas uprisings in the last forty years, and there
Speaker 15: could be another one in theory, and that's what that's
Speaker 15: what the mayor means, the mayor who said these At
Speaker 15: the same time, there is money to be made, because
Speaker 15: there is a lot of money slashing around now, partly
Speaker 15: as a result of Israel's wealth and partly as a
Speaker 15: result of some sappy business folks who are decided, listen,
Speaker 15: whatever happens, we're here. And that's the other interesting aspect here, right,
Speaker 15: that these developers and business people who say, look, whatever happens,
Speaker 15: we're not going to go, so let's just build and
Speaker 15: make sure that whatever happens in the end, we have
Speaker 15: someplace nice to live.
Speaker 11: So talk to us about that. The fragile piece that
Speaker 11: it's all sort of built on ethan because sure, you
Speaker 11: can build stuff like this and you can develop it,
Speaker 11: but like underneath it all, you know, as you kind
Speaker 11: of mentioned here, I mean, there's some real fragility that
Speaker 11: it's all built on.
Speaker 15: That's true. There is increasingly less and less of a
Speaker 15: chance that there will be an independent palace to the
Speaker 15: end state Israel is very powerful and has turned to
Speaker 15: the right. It has decided mostly that it is not
Speaker 15: especially interested in helping the creation of Palestinian state. At
Speaker 15: the same time, you have millions of Palestinians, several million
Speaker 15: who live in the West Bank without full rights, and
Speaker 15: would not be surprising if they were to rebel again. Now,
Speaker 15: the situation is that Israeli military does maintain a sense
Speaker 15: of order in the place. It isn't so easy to
Speaker 15: rebel against Israeli military. But as you said, it could
Speaker 15: happen again. At the moment, the kind of occupation that
Speaker 15: Israel is engaged in has seemed to have kept down
Speaker 15: any genuine full time violence as opposed to what has
Speaker 15: happened in Godz that we're talking about, justin in the
Speaker 15: West Bank. But you know, until there is some kind
Speaker 15: of political horizon that makes sense. There's always a risk
Speaker 15: of violence, and that's what those guys are talking about.
Speaker 3: Talk a little bit about the politics, though, that's really
Speaker 3: where I want to go and understand how this could
Speaker 3: have political implications.
Speaker 2: And maybe be a stabilizing force, right to see, that's right,
Speaker 2: you know, the movement of this wealth into it, that's right.
Speaker 15: So we have, of course, the most right wing religious
Speaker 15: government in Israel's history is it is a government under
Speaker 15: Benjamin Sanya, who that is not dedicated to independent Palestinian state,
Speaker 15: trying to limit and possibly annex some of that land.
Speaker 15: So there's that now internally in terms of the millions
Speaker 15: of palestin Is the two million Palestinians who are israel
Speaker 15: As citizens and the several million who live in the
Speaker 15: West Bank. Let me step back for one second. The
Speaker 15: region is not an encouraging place to live. If you
Speaker 15: are an Arab and you look around at Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt,
Speaker 15: and you say to yourself, I'm an Israeli Arab. I mean,
Speaker 15: I'm very unhappy that I don't have political independence. On
Speaker 15: the other hand, everything around me is in many maybe
Speaker 15: far worse. But so maybe there will be some kind
Speaker 15: of accommodation internally for bi Palestinians internally to somehow come
Speaker 15: to terms with the with the Jewish state of Israel.
Speaker 15: And I say this is because the two million Palestinians
Speaker 15: who are citizens of Israel. On the one hand, of
Speaker 15: course they can't. It is it is a Jewish country,
Speaker 15: and that is, you know, not something easy for them
Speaker 15: to embrace. On the other hand, the bourgeoissification, the middle
Speaker 15: classification of Israeli Arabs over the last generation has been remarkable,
Speaker 15: lightning strong. They all go to university, they are filling
Speaker 15: Israel's occupations, including high tech.
Speaker 1: And and so.
Speaker 15: On the one hand, it is sort of scarier to
Speaker 15: be an Israeli Arab than ever, and on the other
Speaker 15: hand it is easier to be. And those parallel lines
Speaker 15: are aspects of Israel that you see all around. Israel
Speaker 15: is both richer, more more advanced, and heading toward weird
Speaker 15: medieval forces at the same time. I'm all at the
Speaker 15: same time, we.
Speaker 2: Cover markets and we have investors, business folks, they take risks.
Speaker 2: Who's the developer who has taken the risk.
Speaker 16: In this The brains behind it is a man named
Speaker 16: Samir Huli Lay and he's a fascinating guy who killed
Speaker 16: those of you listening will read the story because he's
Speaker 16: a sixty five year old Palestini who was in politics
Speaker 16: and ended up in private enterprise and has this vision.
Speaker 15: Got got to purchase in fat millions and tens of
Speaker 15: millions of dollars worth of land from a particular clan,
Speaker 15: and then you know, started to sort of engage sixty
Speaker 15: two separate Palestinian developers to create the villas and so on.
Speaker 15: So I mean, he and he, you know, he's the
Speaker 15: guy who says in the story, I realized in the
Speaker 15: end that, however this ends up, what's the point of
Speaker 15: having a flag over a garbage stop? Which was an
Speaker 15: amazing quote. I thought. So he said, you know, we
Speaker 15: need to resist, we need to build, and that's how
Speaker 15: we're going to look forward. Politically, We're not going anywhere.
Speaker 15: We're not gonna win on the battlefield right now. But
Speaker 15: this is what I can contribute, and I was very
Speaker 15: moved by that.
Speaker 3: That was Bloomberg News Israel bureau chief Ethan Brawner, along
Speaker 3: with BusinessWeek editor Joe Weber, another must read from the
Speaker 3: annual Cities issue.
Speaker 2: I could have just talked and talked for him. To
Speaker 2: just hear more about what's.
Speaker 6: Going on there. Ah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a great interview.
Speaker 2: All right, you're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Coming out.
Speaker 2: We focus on a new priority of modern engineering known
Speaker 2: as daylighting.
Speaker 3: Why natural sunlight goes hand in hand with a psychologically
Speaker 3: uplifting experience, especially for school kids.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast.
Speaker 1: Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern
Speaker 1: Listen on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business App, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 3: Extreme weather this week with the southeastern US feeling the
Speaker 3: wrath of hurricaney Dahlia, Florida was the first to start
Speaker 3: digging out from the storm's aftermath on Wednesday. By the any,
Speaker 3: Dahlia had weekend to a tropical storm, even as it
Speaker 3: brought heavy rain across Georgia and Carolina's caused billions of
Speaker 3: dollars in damage, left hundreds of flights grounded and thousands
Speaker 3: of people without power.
Speaker 2: Climate change, we know impacting everything increasingly will stressing our infrastructure.
Speaker 2: We see that impacting investing, taking a lead on decision
Speaker 2: making and strategy. So With that in mind, it's kind
Speaker 2: of where we wanted to start with Our next guest,
Speaker 2: Kim verver Hiling, is with us. She is president of
Speaker 2: National Buildings Practice at STV and Engineering and Infrastructure firm.
Speaker 2: We talked last October from our broadcast at NJIIT and
Speaker 2: so we are delighted to have Kim back with us,
Speaker 2: and thank you for giving a bit of a leeway
Speaker 2: because we did kind of want to start with you that.
Speaker 2: I am curious the conversations Tim and I both are
Speaker 2: about what you are having within your firm about climate change,
Speaker 2: the impact and how that might be in terms of
Speaker 2: future building, future construction, infrastructure build out, how we maybe
Speaker 2: have to be dealing with it and thinking about.
Speaker 17: It absolutely well. Climate change is integral and we're thinking
Speaker 17: about it on every single project. Obviously STV a lot
Speaker 17: on the transportation side, but we also do a lot
Speaker 17: and the building side, and so we're all always thinking
Speaker 17: about while we're designing or renovating, how are we going
Speaker 17: to be making sure our buildings are energy efficient? How
Speaker 17: are we thinking about and impact the climate as well
Speaker 17: as resilience.
Speaker 3: Kim I was talking to a colleague of mine and
Speaker 3: Carol I don't think I told you the story, but
Speaker 3: we were talking about he's looking for a new place
Speaker 3: in Brooklyn and he was on the first floor and
Speaker 3: he asked about flooding and you know when the sewer's
Speaker 3: back up, because it's a normal thing when it rains
Speaker 3: now and the super told him, Oh, don't worry. We'll
Speaker 3: give you these special doors that you put on the
Speaker 3: bathroom when when it rains, so the overflow stays in
Speaker 3: the bathroom and doesn't come out of the bathroom.
Speaker 2: See the sand bag.
Speaker 4: How wonderful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, how wonderful.
Speaker 17: Right, not a solution that's right well, and obviously those
Speaker 17: structures that are already in place, it's about prevention, but
Speaker 17: we want a design so you don't have to do
Speaker 17: those sorts of things right that we have the right
Speaker 17: infrastructure in place so it never comes to the point
Speaker 17: where you have to in those those flood barriers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of crazy. Having said that, you know,
Speaker 2: one of the other things that you guys think about
Speaker 2: a lot is bringing the world into buildings and making
Speaker 2: kind of you know, bringing nature into environments. We work
Speaker 2: in an incredible office where there is tons of light,
Speaker 2: tons of glass. People walk in and They're like, this
Speaker 2: is where you work, and I'm like, yeah, it's pretty
Speaker 2: amazing because I've worked in a basement studio in a
Speaker 2: New York building where there were no windows and I
Speaker 2: had no idea what was going on outside. That is
Speaker 2: also a big part of what you guys do and thinking,
Speaker 2: whether it's schools, whether it's correctional facilities. Talk to us
Speaker 2: a little bit about daylighting.
Speaker 17: Yeah, so in daylighting is really the idea that you're
Speaker 17: letting natural sunlight either directly or indirectly into a building,
Speaker 17: but you are correct daylight and is one of our
Speaker 17: top design philosophies, irrespective of what building type we're looking at.
Speaker 17: And I think for those of us during COVID when
Speaker 17: we were scrambling to create offices in our home, we
Speaker 17: realized if you were in a space where you weren't
Speaker 17: getting daylight and you weren't also having that connection to nature,
Speaker 17: it really did impact your mood. And so when we
Speaker 17: think about daylighting, especially on the educational side, it does
Speaker 17: help improve both student health and we've seen that it
Speaker 17: impacts student achievements, so math and reading scores directly. And conversely,
Speaker 17: if you don't have that amazing daylight come in. We
Speaker 17: have discomfort which can reduce learning, and it's also detrimental
Speaker 17: to mental health.
Speaker 3: That was Kim ver high Leigue. She's the president of
Speaker 3: National Buildings Practice at engineering and Infrastructure firm STV. That's
Speaker 3: full conversation is available on our podcast.
Speaker 2: Feed, and that wraps up the weekend edition of Bloomberg
Speaker 2: Business Week on this Labor Day weekend from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 3: Be sure to tune into Bloomberg Business Week Monday through
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Speaker 3: Radio and on Sirius XM channel one nineteen.
Speaker 2: You can also watch our daily broadcast on YouTube. Just
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Speaker 3: Find our Bloomberg BusinessWeek podcast at Bloomberg dot com, Apple,
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Speaker 3: the magazine is available on newstands now, at Bloomberg dot
Speaker 3: com and always on the Bloomberg Terminal. I'm Tim Stenebeck
Speaker 3: and I'm Carol Masser.
Speaker 2: Have a good and safe Labor Day weekend. Stay with us.
Speaker 2: Today's top stories and global business headlines are coming up
Speaker 2: right now.
Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Business Week podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
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