1 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,519 Speaker 1: You're listening to Part Time Genius, a production of Kaleidoscope, 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio. Guess what Will? 3 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 2: What's that? Mango? 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 1: So I had a big writing assignment last week, and 5 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 1: I was not nearly as productive as I should have been. 6 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: I procrastinated, I got distracted, and I kind of pushed 7 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: off the assignment for way too long. 8 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 2: I like that you're leaving out one key fact that 9 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 2: you were actually supposed to be on vacation last week. 10 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 1: I know, but I'd set aside a few hours so 11 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,919 Speaker 1: that I could keep some projects on track. And then 12 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: I missed my deadline. So I started doing what I 13 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: always do when i'm behind. I looked up tricks for 14 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: how to work better, and I stumbled into this old 15 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: chestnut about how Victor Hugo used to make sure he 16 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 1: didn't procrastinate. Basically, whenever he got writer's block, he'd have 17 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: his servant take all his clothes away and leave him 18 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: with only a pen and paper, so we had nothing 19 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: to do but write in the nude, which I guess 20 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: is how he hit all his deadlines. 21 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 2: And also sounds a little bit extreme if you ask me. 22 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, But one thing I've been wondering about is whether 23 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: it was the fact that he was stuck in his 24 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: house without clothes that made him write, or whether it 25 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: was actually being nude that put him in the mood 26 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 1: to do the writing and inspired him. Like Hemingway wrote 27 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: Nude at a standing desk. Ben Franklin famously took airbats 28 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 1: where you'd wake up early, you know, sit by a 29 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: drafty window and feel invigorated to journal before going back 30 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: to bed for sort of a wonderful sleep. Churchill Agatha 31 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 1: Christie both worked from the back. So there are a 32 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: lot of these folks. 33 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 2: Wow. But for all our listeners, just to know you 34 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 2: you are not only working right now, but you are 35 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 2: fully closed as we record. So I'm thankful for that. 36 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, you know, I'm too Victorian to work in 37 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: the nude, even in my own house. But hearing those 38 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: facts made me wonder what are the best ways to work? 39 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: So that's what this episode is all about. Let's dive in. 40 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 2: Hey, their podcast listeners, welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm 41 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 2: Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good 42 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 2: friend Mangesh hot Ticketter and sitting behind that big booth 43 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 2: manning the mixing board, doing it like none other and 44 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 2: actually today he's truly doing it like none other. I 45 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 2: think he's on a Nordic track. Is that what that is? 46 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 1: Yeah? I guess some people work from standing desks and 47 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: some people use treadmill dust, but Dylan has decided he's 48 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: most productive when he's cross country skiings. 49 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know what, there's sometimes I 50 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 2: question what Dylan's doing, but this actually feels on brand 51 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 2: for him. It seems to makes sense for him. But anyway, mego. 52 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 2: You and our researcher Mary Phillip Sandy came up with 53 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 2: the topic for this week's episode, and it's all about 54 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 2: what are the best ways to work? So let's talk 55 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 2: about that. 56 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, and today's episode is kind of a jumble of things. 57 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: Mary and I were brainstorming big questions we could answer 58 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: for the show, and she was like, there are so 59 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: many little things I don't know, Like I sit all 60 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: day and I don't know what's the best way to sit. 61 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: And of course, you know, at the time, I was 62 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 1: crossed like it on my bed, and you know, I 63 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,079 Speaker 1: had a cramped neck from hunching forward. So of course 64 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: that's one of the things I wanted to know. But 65 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 1: we thought with so many people working from home now, 66 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: it might be helpful to hear about everything from some 67 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: productivity tips to how to sit to how far you 68 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: need to place your laptop screen from your Nordic track 69 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: for ultimate comfort. 70 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 2: Glad we're going to be giving that tip. So all right, 71 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 2: let's figure out where where do we want to start 72 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 2: here today? 73 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: How about with ergonomics, which is such a clunky and 74 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: weird word. But what do you think when you hear 75 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: the word ergonomics. 76 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 2: You know, as soon as you said it, I kind 77 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 2: of pictured those wavy keyboards that people started using in nineties, 78 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 2: or an office full of yoga ball chairs, like we 79 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 2: saw so many of these, how quickly these took over 80 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 2: actually our office for a while back in Mental Fluss. 81 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: It was like overnight. It was like an epidemic, Like 82 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: suddenly everyone was either at a standing desk or a 83 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: yoga ball and I just kept sitting at a normal 84 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 1: desk with a swivel chair, just like a rube. 85 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 2: But it's embarrassing. 86 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: I was thinking about those giant mouse rollerballs that you know, 87 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: I don't even know if you remember these, but they 88 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 1: were like red arcade ball like controllers almost, and they'd 89 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 1: sit in the middle of something that kind of looked 90 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: like a tiny Tesla truck. But I was also thinking 91 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: about like the first time I'd seen it in my lifetime. 92 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,799 Speaker 1: I remember that my dad brought home this Swedish ergonomic 93 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: chair for our computer in the eighties. It had no 94 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: back and you kind of kneel into it, and every 95 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: single kid who came to my house commented on how 96 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: weird it was. But the whole idea was it was 97 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: supposed to make you sit straight and be better for 98 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: your posture. So, you know, obviously ergonomics has been a 99 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: thing in our lifetime, but I actually had no idea 100 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: how old the discipline is. 101 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 2: And because I have no idea, I think you're baiting 102 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 2: me into asking you this question. But how old are 103 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 2: we talking about here? 104 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: Yeah? I like how you picked off on my queue there. 105 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:12,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you man. We really work well together. 106 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: Mary pulled this research for me from the Berkeley School 107 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: of Public Health website, and apparently ergonomics states back to 108 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: four hundred BCE, all the way back to the ancient Greeks, 109 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 1: so just a little before the nineteen eighties when my 110 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: dad was Swedish kneeling at his tandy or whatever. But 111 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: According to the site quote, archaeologists have found drawings and 112 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: paintings of chairs with contrad backs and hand tools that 113 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,359 Speaker 1: resemble designs we still use today, which you know is 114 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: really remarkable. Yeah. 115 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 2: I mean, it's funny to think about, like a stone 116 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 2: bench with an indentation for your butt to be considered ergonomics, 117 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 2: but I guess it makes sense, right, Like if you're 118 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 2: gonna sit comfortably, it makes sense to kind of contour 119 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 2: it more to your body. 120 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, And apparently Hippocrates got into the action as well. 121 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: He wrote about how to arrange surgeons to for optimal 122 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: workflow during surgery. So really we've been thinking about how 123 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:06,799 Speaker 1: best to do our work for a very long time, 124 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: but for our stories purposes. The real study of work 125 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: begins in the seventeenth century, and this is when an 126 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: Italian doctor named Bernardino Ramazzini, which you know is a 127 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 1: great name. For the first time, perhaps he begins to 128 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: notice patterns that certain types of work brings certain pains, right, 129 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: and he begins looking at why workers are suffering from 130 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: various ailments. He starts by visiting their workplaces, observing how 131 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: they work, and then he does all these interviews to 132 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: understand how their work is affecting their bodies, and this 133 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: is in seventeen hundred. He publishes his observations in a 134 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: book called The Diseases of the Workers. 135 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 2: So if this was seventeen hundred, like, what type of 136 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 2: work is he studying here? 137 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: He studies over one hundred professions and it's everything from 138 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 1: bakers and miller's to fishermen, to stonecutters to glassmakers. He's 139 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: also in including athletes and singers. It is surprisingly comprehensive, 140 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 1: and he starts to notice how various violent motions or 141 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: irregular motions, and also waits that these workers are carrying 142 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: daily how that's taking a toll across various classes of workers. 143 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 2: So would he be considered like the father of ergonomics. 144 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 2: Then he's more considered the father of occupational medicine. And 145 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 2: his contribution is mostly in linking repetitive work to pains 146 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 2: and disorders, but it is interesting he also notes the 147 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 2: mental stresses on people who are doing things like accounting work. 148 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 2: These people have to get the numbers right to keep 149 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 2: their jobs, and so there's immense pressure on them. And 150 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: he's also looking at things like environmental conditions, so he 151 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 2: notices the breathing difficulties that millers get and the asthma 152 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 2: that they get from all these like powders and things 153 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 2: in the air. And he's quoted as saying it's far 154 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 2: better to prevent than to cure. So he's really. 155 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: Ahead of his time. 156 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, no kidding. But to your question. 157 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: About ergonomics, the word ergonomics gets coin in the eighteen 158 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: fifties and this is by a Polish author and it 159 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: kind of means the science of work or laws of work, 160 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: and it isn't really until about one hundred years later 161 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: that it takes on its current meaning of fitting a 162 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: job to a person or a body. But before we 163 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: get into that, I want to talk briefly about the 164 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: concept of business management, which arose in the late eighteen hundreds, 165 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: and it is really fascinating to me. So this is 166 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: during the Industrial Revolution, or at least impacted by it, 167 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: when industrialization becomes synonymous with work. And just stay with 168 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: me here because it feels like a tangent, but it's not. 169 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: Industrials were interested in the idea of efficiency, right, but 170 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: it wasn't like they wanted to protect workers from these 171 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 1: repetitive stress injuries. As businessmen, their goal was really to 172 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: extract as much value as possible from workers and kind 173 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: of treating their bodies like machines, making the most of 174 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: their bodies. And one consultant who helps figure out how 175 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: to do this is a guy named Frederick W. Taylor, 176 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: who basically believed that workers can always be made to 177 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: produce more and less time with less motion. 178 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 2: Wow, always be made to So he's kind of a 179 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 2: nightmare boss. 180 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 1: Yeah. His work is basically going to take any remaining 181 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: power out of the worker's hands and place it in 182 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:14,959 Speaker 1: the hands of the bosses. At the time, they call 183 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: it quote scientific management, right, that's the term for it, 184 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 1: and later they refer to this practice as tailorism. But basically, 185 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: these efficiency engineers, as they were called, we're trying to 186 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: figure out the one best way to do every task 187 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: the quickest and the way they studied this is really incredible. 188 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,839 Speaker 1: This comes from an article in Jacobin magazine and goes 189 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,719 Speaker 1: quote it's hard to overstate how far efficiency engineers went 190 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: to measure and survey of workers' bodies. They used stopwatches, 191 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 1: photographed and film workers, and tied light bulbs to workers 192 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 1: fingers in order to trace hand movements across long exposure photographs. 193 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: One engineer, Frank Gilbert, disaggregated each finger, shoulder, and foot, 194 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: plotting individual movements in units in the thousandth of a minute. 195 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, the observation is intense, and they're 196 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: collecting amen's data, and they are analyzing every part of 197 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:09,319 Speaker 1: every single mechanical task. 198 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 2: That is wild. And so what do they do with 199 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:13,199 Speaker 2: all this data? 200 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,199 Speaker 1: Basically, they're getting paid to make a company more profitable, right, 201 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: So they walk the employees through these studies and point 202 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: out their inefficiencies and show them how to work faster. Basically, 203 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: they fire anyone who refuses or can't keep up. But 204 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 1: because these are upper class men, they're also trying to 205 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 1: temp down any class conflicts or resentments that could arise, 206 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: and they're trying to ease this transition into getting people 207 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: to work harder. So they push for pay bonuses based 208 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: on worker efficiency, and workers are incentivized to work faster, 209 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: and that way the workers are at least a little 210 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: happier and managers get more product, which they see as 211 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: a win win, I. 212 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 2: Mean, I guess so. But obviously these bonuses aren't so 213 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 2: big that anybody's getting rich here, right, The workers can do. 214 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,199 Speaker 1: A little better, but their bodies are going to take 215 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: a toll for it. And there's an interesting side note here, 216 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: a bunch of the more skilled workers start to push back. 217 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:07,479 Speaker 1: As the Jacobin article points out, quote the diversion experiences 218 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: of machinists and shovelers was pretty illustrative. So the shovelers 219 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: were less organized and easier to replace, and they were 220 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: really pushed to the limit by the efficiency experts. One 221 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: study from the time actually showed that they ended up 222 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: heaving two hundred and seventy percent more tonnage than before 223 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: the consultants arrived. Wow, so they're working their tails off. 224 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: It is brutal and its backbreaking work. And meanwhile, the 225 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: machinists actually have some leverage. They kind of hold their 226 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: trade secrets close to them and they unionize their response 227 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,559 Speaker 1: and this ends up protecting them because when managers try 228 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: to control them, they act collectively and can better dictate terms. Anyway, 229 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: this all leads back to ergonomics. 230 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 2: I'm glad you say that, because I was just about 231 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 2: to ask that. 232 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, as tailorism and this mechanization of the human 233 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: body was taking place, workers want to avoid being fit 234 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: leagued all the time, and they want to protect their health. 235 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,839 Speaker 1: So in the nineteen twenties, researchers start making the case 236 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,479 Speaker 1: for more humane work and not burning out your workforce. 237 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,719 Speaker 1: There's this conference in Russia, but this movement takes off 238 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: all over and you know, this more humane work is 239 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: called ergology, which later becomes ergonomics, which you know later 240 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 1: translates into offices that are wall to wall with yoga 241 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: ball chairs. 242 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 2: Finally we got there. That was that was worth it though, Manga. 243 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 2: That was actually very interesting, and I know there's more 244 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,439 Speaker 2: story to get to, but I also know we're talking 245 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:35,959 Speaker 2: about the best ways to work, and one thing that 246 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 2: people definitely want to know is some definitive answer on 247 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 2: how to sit and not destroy their bodies because you 248 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 2: hear so much about the damage that it does to 249 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 2: sit for so long. 250 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm glad you took this on because I'm 251 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: very curious about this. So tell me. 252 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 2: Well, one of the first places to go to if 253 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 2: you thinking about anything health related is the Mayo Clinic. 254 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:56,319 Speaker 2: So I decided to go to the website and look 255 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 2: at the guidelines there. Now, before you start working, you'll 256 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,199 Speaker 2: want to pull out a tape measure and possibly a protractor. 257 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 2: If you don't know what a right angle is, or 258 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 2: if you've got those ready, I'll continue here. One your 259 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 2: knees should be about level with the hips when you 260 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 2: are seated, with your thighs parallel to the floor, So 261 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 2: clearly sitting on a high stool or a bean bag 262 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 2: is not ideal. Two your hands should be at or 263 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,679 Speaker 2: below elbow level with the wrist straight. Three. If your 264 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 2: desk has a hard edge, you should pad the edge 265 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 2: to protect your wrist from the contact stress. So this 266 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 2: includes laptops, Like if you're resting your wrist on a 267 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 2: hard laptop, you'll want padding there. And four, if you're 268 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 2: using a monitor, that should be no closer to you 269 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 2: than twenty inches and no further away than forty inches, 270 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 2: and you'll want the top of the screen to be 271 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 2: at or slightly below eye level. Now I have to admit, 272 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 2: when I read many of these things, I violated almost 273 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 2: every single one of them. 274 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: I also have no idea how far my computer screen 275 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: is for me any time. 276 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, on that at air inches. I don't know about you. 277 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 2: Like on a table, I can do it, but air 278 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:03,479 Speaker 2: inches is not my specialty. 279 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: I also feel like I assume it must be like 280 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: twenty to forty inches from my face at all times, 281 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: but except when I don't have my glasses on and 282 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: then it's pressed up against my face. Is that distance 283 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: for your eyesight or is it for neck I posture reasons? 284 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: Why is that distance so important? It actually prevents both 285 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: eyestrain and next strain. Though, if you're looking to protect 286 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: your eyes, the other thing you're supposed to do is 287 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: follow the twenty twenty twenty rules. So this is where 288 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: every twenty minutes you're supposed to take a twenty second 289 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: break to look at an object twenty feet away. This 290 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: rule was developed by an optometrist from California name Jeffrey Anshell, 291 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: and this was a way to help people avoid headaches 292 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: and eyestrain. But you can also close your eyes for 293 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: twenty seconds and that has a similar kind of effect. 294 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: Twenty seconds doesn't feel like long enough, Like, yeah, that's 295 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: almost teasing my brain into thinking it's taking a nap. 296 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: We've covered angle you should say at and how far 297 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: your screen should be from your face, But what about 298 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: the whole like sitting standing treadmill desk argument, Like what's 299 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: the optimal way to work on that front? 300 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 2: You know, the ideal seems to be alternating between sitting 301 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 2: and standing, because sitting for too long or being sedentary 302 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 2: increases your risk for a whole host of different diseases. 303 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 2: I mean everything from Parkinson's two strokes, to cancers, two 304 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 2: diabetes to Alzheimer's. Like, it's really as interesting looking at 305 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 2: the list and terrifying at this list of you know, 306 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 2: sort of tied back to this. 307 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: It's so scary like that sitting for long periods can 308 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: increase your chances of getting six. So how much do 309 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: I have to alternate for this? 310 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 2: You'll need to turn to the International Ergonomics and Human 311 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 2: Factors Association, which I don't think you knew a whole 312 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 2: lot about before this episode, and they recommend sitting for 313 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 2: ten minutes, then standing up for five, and then repeating 314 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 2: that throughout the day. So not too bad. 315 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: First of all, please don't make any assumptions, because that 316 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: is my homepage. I could. 317 00:15:57,920 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, I shouldn't have assumed. 318 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: But I also don't know how you're supposed to remember 319 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: to do that like all the time. Like I feel 320 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: like the only way I can remember is if my 321 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: desk automatically lifted and lowered like every five and ten minutes. 322 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: It just feels kind of impractical. Plus you've got to 323 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: close your eyes or look twenty feet away every twenty minutes, 324 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: so like none of those numbers really line up. 325 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it's uh, it's interesting. I mean, if 326 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 2: you can't pull off the ten minutes sitting, five minutes 327 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 2: standing routine, there's an alternative that can help your workflow. 328 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 2: You can work for twenty minutes, take a two minute 329 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 2: active break. That's like second best option here. But when 330 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 2: you do that, you can also close your eyes for 331 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 2: the first twenty seconds or just naturally look around. But 332 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 2: hopefully you're not taking this active break and closing your 333 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 2: eyes for the first twenty seconds, because that seems dangerous 334 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 2: as well. 335 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: I also like that you've ranked these like, I guess 336 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: I've got a whole list, right, I'm gonna go with 337 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: option too, But is there a third place? The truth is, like, 338 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: if you're writing or researching, I feel like you get 339 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: in a flow and then you just forget time. 340 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it actually would be good to make 341 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 2: time for that two minute break, just because it's helpful 342 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 2: for anyone with a history of diabetes in the family. 343 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 2: And I know you have some in the family as well, 344 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 2: and according to the site, getting up more frequently can 345 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 2: quote lower your post prandial glucose and insulin levels, which 346 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 2: means that avoiding sitting for long periods of time can 347 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,199 Speaker 2: actually be an effective way of reducing the risk of 348 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:25,439 Speaker 2: type two diabetes. 349 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: That's amazing and I wonder you know, as people start 350 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: adapting more to this information, if it's like during the SATs, 351 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: we'll see kids just standing up in the middle of 352 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: a section and running in place to keep their diabetes away. 353 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: It kind of makes sense. 354 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 2: Well, there's one other suggestion if you can't keep standing 355 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 2: at work or take frequent breaks, and that's the stop, 356 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 2: drop and flop. 357 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 1: I go. I love the branding. What's the stop, drop 358 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: and flop? 359 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 2: So it's exactly what it sounds like. After you send 360 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 2: an email or finish a task, you stop what you're doing, 361 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 2: let your shoulders drop, flop, your hands down by your side, 362 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 2: and give yourself a little bit of a stretch break. 363 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,439 Speaker 2: But actually, let's talk a little bit more about sitting, 364 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 2: because we all know we do this a lot, or 365 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 2: many of us do this a lot as we're working. 366 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 2: So let's talk about how to best sit for optimal help. 367 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm guessing sitting cross legged on stools and chairs 368 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 1: with my laptop on my lap probably isn't the best way. Yeah. 369 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 2: I actually don't see anybody advocating for that, and I'm 370 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 2: guilty of it as well. I mean, the bottom line 371 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 2: is that chairs are complicated. So I was looking at 372 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 2: self dot com. They interviewed a board certified physical therapist 373 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 2: and an orthopedic specialist about this very topic. And there 374 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 2: are just a lot of components here, but mostly you 375 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,679 Speaker 2: want a firm, flat cushion chair, good Lombard support, Like 376 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 2: a lot of really nice cushiony chairs have that seat 377 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 2: tilted upward in the front, and that actually puts stress 378 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:53,360 Speaker 2: on your spine and tilts your pelvis backwards, which isn't 379 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 2: that kind. 380 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: Of like how we all drive. I guess that's bad 381 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 1: for long periods of time. 382 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's straining the wrong parts. Like basically, you want 383 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,679 Speaker 2: to be sitting upright with a straight back, so not 384 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,880 Speaker 2: leaning forwards or backwards, because tilting either way puts pressure 385 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:10,199 Speaker 2: on your shoulders and on your neck. And according to 386 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 2: this same piece, you also want to scoot your bottom 387 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 2: all the way to the back of the chair, because, 388 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 2: as the article says, otherwise you will be sitting on 389 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 2: your sacram and stressing your back. 390 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 1: So how do you know if you're sitting right? 391 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 2: Well, basically, if you're upright, your feet are on the floor, 392 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 2: your hips are square, and you're not tilting forward, then 393 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 2: you're doing it. 394 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:34,120 Speaker 1: Right, which sounds like sticking a perfect landing and gymnastics 395 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: or something. It feels like exactly chair setting should be 396 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: its own sport. But I feel like we've been chatting 397 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,439 Speaker 1: for a bit and I am overdue for my stop, 398 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: drop and flop, which I do all the time now, 399 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: So why don't we take a two minute break and 400 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 1: we'll be back with more part Time Genius after these commercials. 401 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Part Time Genius, where we're discussing the 402 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 2: very best ways to work. Now that you're all stretched 403 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,159 Speaker 2: and relaxed, you've taken a twenty second micro nap, what 404 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 2: do you want to talk about? 405 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: You know, I'm feeling so refresh and not diabetically right now, 406 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: So that's great. But as we were researching this episode, 407 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 1: I was looking up ergonomic keyboards and I found the 408 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: Stranger's keyboard. It is a vertical keyboard and it's supposed 409 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 1: to eliminate any strain on your wrist. 410 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 2: And how does that work exactly? I'm looking at it now. 411 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 2: This is wild. 412 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, So for everyone listening, Basically, the image I'm showing 413 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: will is it's like if you took a keyboard cut 414 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: in half and then flip the sides up like a drawbridge, 415 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: so the keys are kind of facing out on either 416 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 1: side of your monitor. The idea is that if your 417 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: arms are straight out in front of you, the way 418 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: you slow dance in sixth grade, or at least the 419 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,120 Speaker 1: way I slow dance in sixth grade, h and you're 420 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 1: typing vertically, reduces that strain. It's almost like you're shaking 421 00:20:58,480 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: hands with the keyboard. 422 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:01,640 Speaker 2: And that's supposed to help. 423 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 1: I guess because your hands aren't resting on a hard surface, 424 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: you're you're less likely to get that restrain. And also 425 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 1: the vertical keyboard has these cushions or padding to rest 426 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: the heel of your hand, so it should be more comfortable. 427 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 2: I don't know why the halves of the keyboard have 428 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 2: to be so far apart. Just look at this picture. 429 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: I guess if they were closer, you'd look like mister 430 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: Burns twiddling his fingers. 431 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 2: But as you type, which seems to me the goal. 432 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 1: I love this futuristic kind of stuff, Like as a kid, 433 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: other than on the jetsons, I could never imagined people 434 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 1: typing books on treadmills, or like taking naps and giant 435 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,160 Speaker 1: eggs at work. And it'll be so fun to see 436 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: how work changes in the next twenty or thirty years. 437 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 2: Oh definitely, Like they're already projections of keypads instead of 438 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 2: real keyboard so you can just type in the air, 439 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 2: and people working from self driving cars with Wi Fi 440 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 2: Like it feels commonplace now, but this would blow the 441 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 2: minds of people thirty or forty years ago. 442 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I know you have some tips on how 443 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 1: to increase productty not in a tailorism way, more in 444 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: how to get things down way. But before we go 445 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: to that, why don't we talk about two very different 446 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: ergonomic chairs. So the first one I want to talk 447 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: about is for pilots, and it comes from a paper 448 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: from a journal called Science, Technology, and Human Values, but 449 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 1: it's about military cockpit design. So basically, in World War Two, 450 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: ergonomics really started becoming a discipline and it was important 451 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: to the armed forces, especially because to operate this like 452 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: machinery correctly and safely, and also with some regularity. You 453 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: kind of need to build things like tanks and planes 454 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: and things to human specifications, So the term human engineering 455 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: comes about. And the engineers were really smart about this. 456 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: To make sure people could easily operate leg and hand 457 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: controls and see all the gauges and displays, they came 458 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,120 Speaker 1: up with five critical drivers. They looked at the height 459 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: of someone sitting, they looked at functional arm reach, leg length, 460 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: buttock to knee length, and weight, and they basically designed 461 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 1: a cockpit that could both safely be operated from and 462 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 1: that could safely eject you if you were taller than 463 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 1: five percent of the male population. So the idea was 464 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: that basically everyone from the fifth percentile all the way 465 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: through the ninety fifth percentile of men in the country 466 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: could operate these machines pretty effectively. And it's kind of 467 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 1: a landmark in ergonomic innovation. Here you've got this beautiful 468 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: new plane where the dials and gages and buttons and 469 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: steering wheel are all perfectly within reach for most of 470 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: the population, except, I. 471 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 2: Mean, what about the women here? 472 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 1: Exactly? They designed this for men above a certain height, 473 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: but at thirty four inches sitting height, which is what 474 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: they were using. That excluded close to seventy percent of 475 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 1: the female population because according to the paper, only approximately 476 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: the sixty fifth through ninety fifth percentile female could operate 477 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: the machinery. So weirdly, mass producer ergonomics have this greater 478 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: implication on society. 479 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 2: Which I guess isn't that surprising, Like if you think 480 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 2: about the right handed scissors, that's excluding ten percent of 481 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 2: the population right there. 482 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, But it's even worse than that because since commercial 483 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 1: aviation basically copied all their design and engineering from the military, 484 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: there was what's called ergonomic bias spillover, and that goes 485 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,479 Speaker 1: into commercial airlines. As the paper notes, quote, it is 486 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: not that women are not physically capable of flying these 487 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:24,719 Speaker 1: particular aircraft. Rather, the technical artifact has functioned to delineate 488 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: the other. 489 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 2: So what's the other ergonomic chair you wanted to talk about? 490 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: So that one's kind of on the opposite end of 491 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: the spectrum, and it's the guy who built the first 492 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,880 Speaker 1: modern ergonomic chair, a German Man named Frederick Wilhelm Dauphin, 493 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: And it's nineteen sixty eight and he's hired by a 494 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,199 Speaker 1: British company as a consultant to look at how the 495 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: computer is going to impact office furniture, and he's supposed 496 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 1: to advise them on production. But the company, I'm not 497 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 1: sure whether it's funding or what, but they can't execute 498 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 1: his vision. So he and his wife really believe in 499 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: this idea of human centered design. So they do what 500 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: all great startups do. They start tinkering in their garage 501 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: back in Bavaria and they designed this very affordable chair 502 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: that has cutting edge ergonomics. It's a chair where you 503 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: can adjust the height and back and it offers incredible 504 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: posture support. He also creates the first synchronized mechanism for chairs, 505 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: which I had to look up what it meant. It's 506 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: when you tilt the back of your chair like twenty degrees, 507 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: the seapan of the chair doesn't go back the full 508 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: twenty degrees. It only moves like five or ten degrees, 509 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: so you still feel like you're reclining, but you don't 510 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 1: feel like you're going to tip back. And that's kind 511 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: of standard on all chairs now. But the big thing 512 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: for Dolphin and his wife, Elkie, who was his partner 513 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 1: in this, was to make sure that these things were 514 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: stylish and affordable, but also tailored to individual needs. So 515 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: the adjusting the height was really important to him from 516 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 1: the start. And that's kind of the opposite of the 517 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: cockpit chair, which was kind of one size fits all, 518 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: but really it was one size fits most men and 519 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: some women. Anyway, this chair just takes off and revolutionizes 520 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,439 Speaker 1: office firm sure across Europe and Americas, and today they 521 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 1: are still producing about seventeen hundred office chairs every single day. 522 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,400 Speaker 2: Wow, that's pretty amazing. All right, Well, we've talked about 523 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 2: how to sit, how to rest your eyes, when to stand, 524 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 2: when to flop, But why don't we go through a 525 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 2: few quick tips on getting stuff done? 526 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: Great? You know I'm always looking for productivity tips. 527 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 2: I know you are, except I'm going to quiz you here. 528 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: Great. You know I'm always looking for quizzes. 529 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 2: So okay, good, good, good? All right? So hot or cold? 530 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 2: What is better for your office temperature? 531 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 1: I mean personally, like my dad's from Goa and India's 532 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: which is the beach. So you know I don't love 533 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 1: the cold, so I'd go with hot. 534 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 2: All right. Well, you are one for one, being too 535 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 2: cold makes it harder to get things done. This comes 536 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 2: from fast company. But Cornell actually did a study in 537 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 2: an insurance office and when the temperature was low, like 538 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 2: sixty eight degrees, employees committed forty four percent more errors 539 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,120 Speaker 2: than when the thermostat was set to seventy seven degrees. 540 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,640 Speaker 2: But warm temps are actually better for office politics too. 541 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 1: How's that? 542 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 2: So? The article goes on to say that there was 543 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 2: a study in science where psychologists found that when people 544 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,360 Speaker 2: feel cold, they're quote more likely to perceive others as 545 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 2: less generous and caring, and that the same area of 546 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 2: the brain that lights up when we sense temperature, aka 547 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 2: the insular cortex, is also active when we feel trust 548 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 2: and empathy toward another person. So basically, when we experience warmth, 549 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 2: we experience trust. 550 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 1: Oh that's fascinating and such a good argument to my 551 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: wife why we have to keep the temperatures toasty in 552 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: our house whenever I'm working? So what's next? 553 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 2: All right? Well, how about having someone on a screen 554 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 2: doing their work but kind of watching you aka the 555 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 2: new trend of body doubling. 556 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 1: You know, I hate when people look over my shoulder 557 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: or watch me work, even when working in like Google docs, 558 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: when someone else is in the dock. It feels like 559 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: such an adjustment for me. H, I'll guess not helpful. 560 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 2: Well, it might not be helpful for you, but it's 561 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 2: actually a great hack for people with ADHD. Like this 562 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 2: is how an ADHD therapist named Billy Roberts explained it. Quote. 563 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 2: ADHD is a disorder of executive functioning, the part of 564 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 2: the brain that controls concentration, attention, activation of task, effort 565 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 2: on task, and self control, to name a few. Having 566 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 2: a person present during a less desirable task might increase 567 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,679 Speaker 2: the joy surrounding that task, similar to listening to empowering 568 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 2: music while working, he says, and having another person there 569 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 2: also makes you accountable, so you're less likely to procrastinate. Apparently, 570 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 2: having a study buddy or this type of virtual body 571 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 2: doubling helps people with ADHD by increasing their dopamine levels, 572 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 2: And there are lots of websites and apps that help 573 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 2: you find a body double. 574 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: Body doubling sounds like such a sci fi term, you know, 575 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: but that is really interesting. Also, it makes me feel 576 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 1: a little guilty because both Lizzie and Henry are super 577 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: ADHD and when we're both working from home, Lizzie always 578 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: suggests working from the same room and I'm just like 579 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: you know, I'm good from over here, but it kind 580 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: of gives me more empathy as they're doing their work. 581 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: What else you got? 582 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 2: All right? Last one afternoon coffees? What do you think? 583 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: Ah, this is tough. I could see an argument either way, 584 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: but maybe skip them. 585 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. The latest research, and this is coming from psychology today, 586 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 2: is that afternoon coffee confuses the brain, tricking your body 587 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 2: into thinking it has more energy than it does. As 588 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 2: the article points out, basically, it's pushing your body into 589 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 2: overdrive and taxing its resources, which is what makes you crash. 590 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 2: And the dependence throws off your biorrhythms. Like this is 591 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 2: whole domino effect where you get worse sleep, which curbs 592 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 2: your ability to de stress and causes inflammation. 593 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: I love the idea that coffee throws off your bio rhythms, 594 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: but like sitting for ten minutes, standing for five, and 595 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: closing your eyes every twenty minutes is actually better for 596 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,479 Speaker 1: your health. Yep, I do really want to be healthier, 597 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: So I'm sure this will all be in my head 598 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: for a week, but I'm guessing I will do none 599 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: of these things except raise the thermostat in my house. 600 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: But you know, what will definitely make me feel better. 601 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: How about a little. 602 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 2: Fact off, let's do it all right, So bosses should 603 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 2: appreciate their workers working from home, but you know who 604 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 2: doesn't cats. According to an article on Mental Floss, cats 605 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 2: are creatures of habit so they like set patterns. So 606 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 2: when people started working from home during the pandemic and 607 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 2: no one had really run this by the cats, their 608 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 2: routines got disrupted. Also, the article points out that they 609 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 2: pick up on the emotions and vibes, so chaos from 610 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 2: kids who had been at school, or you being allowed 611 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 2: on a zoom or whatever it might have been, that 612 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 2: was a change that also affects them. But eventually they 613 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 2: will come around to the new routine. But the most 614 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 2: interesting thing to me about the article was that it 615 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 2: advises when you go back to the office, you don't 616 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 2: want to deeply upset your cat, So to help them 617 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 2: adjust to this new routine, you should wake up at 618 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 2: the time you're planning to go in and start leaving 619 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 2: the house for longer periods of time so they can 620 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 2: adjust to the new routine. 621 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: It's funny, it sounds more like you're trying to please 622 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: a roommate than a pet, so here's another quick one 623 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 1: that happens to evolve dogs. Do you know that workers 624 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: comp can apply to work from home injuries? In twenty eleven, 625 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: and Oregon court ruled that an interior designer was eligible 626 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: for workers comp after she tripped on her dog while 627 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: moving fabric samples to her garage. 628 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 2: It is insane, that's wild, all right. Well, I think 629 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 2: a lot of us have heard of the Pomodoro technique. 630 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what where you use a timer to focus 631 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: on a task for like twenty five minutes at a time, 632 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: and you take little breaks after each one of those sets. Yeah. 633 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 2: I mean it was already kind of a thing, and 634 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 2: then it got more popular during lockdown. But I didn't 635 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 2: realize it was created by a college kid in the 636 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 2: nineteen eighties. So apparently the student Francesco Cirillo, who was 637 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 2: having a hard time focusing, so he kind of challenged 638 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 2: himself to study or work for ten minutes at a time, 639 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 2: and he found one of those vintage tomato shaped timers 640 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 2: you can see in kitchens, aka the pomodoro, and he 641 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 2: formed this technique. The other thing I didn't realize is 642 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 2: that even though the technique is super simple, he actually 643 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 2: kept building out different parts and suggestions for the method, 644 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 2: and he wrote this one hundred and thirty page book 645 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 2: about it, which led him to this long career as 646 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 2: an efficiency consultant for everyone from software engineers to F 647 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 2: one teams. 648 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 1: That's pretty amazing. So I am trying to keep all 649 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: of mine quick today. So here's another snappy one. Do 650 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: you know that slack is actually an acronym? It stands 651 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: for a searchable log of all conversation and knowledge? 652 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 2: Wait? Is that real? Did you just make that up? 653 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: But no, it's true. 654 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 2: I had no idea. Well, there's a lot of talk 655 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 2: about napping being good for you and how it benefits 656 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 2: everyone from pilots to astronauts to creatives, but apparently napping 657 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 2: was particularly popularized by the early Romans, who loved a 658 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 2: sexta aura, meaning a sleep in the sixth hour of 659 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 2: a waking day, which became known as the siesta. 660 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 1: Oh, I love siesta so much in India. The fact 661 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: that you like nap and have this quiet break after 662 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: a lunch and then wake up and have tea and snacks. 663 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: It's like my body is built for that. I'm going 664 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: to go slightly longer on this one. But there are 665 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: a number of studies on laughter in the office place, 666 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: and apparently people who laughed at a comedy clip and 667 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: then were asked to do math problems in a lab, 668 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: we're ten percent more productive than those who didn't, which, 669 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: you know, I thought was interesting. But the other thing 670 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: I thought was fascinating is that people who crack successful 671 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: jokes are better perceived. So, according to a Harvard Business 672 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: School professor Alison Woodbrooks, presenters who make successful jokes are 673 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 1: quote perceived as more are competent, more confident, and hire 674 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 1: in status. 675 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 2: I like that you said successful jokes, not just not 676 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 2: just any joke. 677 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. According to the study, it's more sweet jokes that 678 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,360 Speaker 1: are confidently presented versus you know, Michael Scott type jokes 679 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 1: that are inappropriate. 680 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 2: Mm hmm that actually I could see that. That makes sense. 681 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:20,759 Speaker 2: All right, Well, here's one that's kind of fun to 682 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 2: end on, at least for me. So Amtrak's quiet Car 683 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 2: has a huge following of loyal travelers and people who 684 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,799 Speaker 2: swear by how much they can get done on it. 685 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 2: But one thing I didn't realize is that it was 686 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,759 Speaker 2: actually an idea that came about from commuters. In an 687 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 2: interview in Fortune, the company's former chief marketing officer explained 688 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 2: how basically cell phone chatter was ubiquitous on trains, and 689 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 2: this group of regular commuters begged the conductor to set 690 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 2: aside a noise free zone, and as soon as he did, 691 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 2: the idea took off, and Amtrak expanded the Quiet Car 692 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 2: to its entire fleet. But if you look up Amtrak's 693 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 2: Quiet Car online, you can find that people have written 694 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 2: odes and poetry to it. They're fanatical about it, And 695 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 2: so I thought it'd end with this quote from a 696 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 2: Yahoo Travel story in praise of the Quiet Car. Here's 697 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 2: how it reads. As a proud member of the Quiet 698 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 2: Car Nation, I will admit that we may be over 699 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,319 Speaker 2: zealous in our efforts to preserve, protect, and defend it, 700 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 2: but that's for good reason. In this hyper connected world, 701 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 2: the Quiet car is one of the few places we 702 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:22,839 Speaker 2: have left where we are out of reach of our 703 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,359 Speaker 2: busy home, social, and work lives. Here we can sit 704 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 2: with like minded people, enjoying our silent utopia and just 705 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 2: be so. Let us celebrate the Quiet Car, the last 706 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,359 Speaker 2: bastion of civilized travel. Let us cherish it, let us 707 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,320 Speaker 2: protect it, let us sing its praises. Just not too loudly. 708 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,360 Speaker 1: Oh I like that, and I feel like it needs 709 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 1: like patriotic music behind it as you give that speech. 710 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. 711 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: I don't know how I can't give this to you. 712 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: So I'm going to silently hand over this week's trophy. 713 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,240 Speaker 2: I love it. I felt good about ending on that one. 714 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,760 Speaker 2: All right. Well, that's it for this week's Part Time Genius. 715 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 2: Now remember, if you like our please rate it review. 716 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 2: It makes us so happy to know you people are listening. Also, 717 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 2: we love hearing from you. But more importantly, our moms 718 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,359 Speaker 2: love hearing from you, and they have loved so many 719 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 2: of the notes that have come in recently. So write 720 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 2: to us at PT Genius Moms at gmail dot com. 721 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 2: Our moms always passed these amazing messages along from Dylan, Mango, 722 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:23,760 Speaker 2: Mary and me. Thanks so much for listening. 723 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 1: Part Time Genius is a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. 724 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: This show is hosted by Will Pearson and me Mongshatikler 725 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,880 Speaker 1: and research by our good pal Mary Philip Sandy. Today's 726 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,280 Speaker 1: episode was engineered and produced by the wonderful Dylan Fagan 727 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,800 Speaker 1: with support from Tyler Klang. The show is executive produced 728 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,720 Speaker 1: for iHeart by Katrina Norvell and Ali Perry, with social 729 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: media support from Sasha Gay Trustee Dara Potts and Viney Shoory. 730 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:09,320 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 731 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.