WEBVTT - Predators, Reapers and Robotic War 0:00:01.560 --> 0:00:04.760 Welcome to Stuff from the Science Lab from how stuff 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:16.200 works dot com. Hey guys, and welcome to the podcast. 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:18.560 This is also Know the science editor how stuff works 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:20.759 dot com. And this is Robert Lamb, science writer and 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:23.680 how stuff works dot Com. Today, Robert has prepared a 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:27.800 real treat for us. Yeah, you know, we just upgraded 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:32.360 the whole studio. Here, we're recording some pretty high tech digs. Yeah, 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:34.599 you look pretty sweet in those sad months. Yeah, I 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:38.000 feel kind of loud in them. But but but this, 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:40.040 this brings us, brings us to the question, do you 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:42.800 ever worry about things being upgraded to the point where 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:47.200 you'll be replaced by a robot? Um a little bit, 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:49.720 I mean sure of an editor, So some of the 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:54.720 job functionality I have could surely be performed could surely 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:57.160 be performed by a robot. Yeah, definitely, I mean I 0:00:57.520 --> 0:01:00.360 can I think a little on those lines, Like a 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:03.680 lot of my job is like getting information, reassembling it 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:06.240 and throwing in a done joke, you know, and you 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:09.480 could considerably program something to do to do just that. Yeah, 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:12.240 but a robot is never going to have your creativity. Yeah, 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:14.720 well there's the definitely a human factor. Now, one area 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:17.440 where the robots have really made some inroads. Were just 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:20.880 pouring some jobs. Yeah, warfare. And it's kind of like 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:24.600 we talked in the Robots podcast or earlier, is that 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:27.240 you know, we give a lot of crap jobs to robots. 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:32.880 Indeed we do. And you know, you look, war is 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:35.960 a pretty crap job. So that's why we have these 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:39.080 u a v s flying around. All right. Yeah, Well 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:41.440 today we're going to talk about two main ua vs 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:44.679 going on the unmanned aerial vehicles, right, the Predator and 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:46.240 the Reaper. Do you want to kick it off with 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:50.320 the Predator today? Yeah? The Predators. The Predators are pretty 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:53.640 awesome piece of machinery. Um, They've been around for a 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:56.720 number of years. It's the m Q one Predator. It's 0:01:56.760 --> 0:02:01.360 a medium altitude, long endurance unmanned aircraft system. Uh. And 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:02.760 if you've seen pictures of it, I mean, it just 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:05.840 looks like a sleek airplane that doesn't need any room 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:09.440 for a human pilot because the pilot um and crew 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:12.360 are in a little a little studio if you will, 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:16.840 um around. Yeah, and uh, the thing's loaded up with 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:19.240 a bunch of high tech since sensing equipment, you know, 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:23.080 and for red all that and Uh, it was you know, 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:27.720 invented primarily to be used as a reconnaissance right, okay, yeah, 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:30.880 so the predators out there and use right now. Yeah, yeah, 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:33.520 we've been using using it for for years. Um and 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:37.400 I think currently we have we've we've created something like, 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:42.200 uh like over a hundred I think counting the different 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:45.200 predators and and then the the eventual offshoot, the Reaper, 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:47.000 which we'll get to in a minute. So what kind 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:48.880 of weapon where we're talking about. It looks like they 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:52.360 become equipped with two leaser guided missiles, yeah, to to 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:56.359 help fire missiles they can carry and and this is 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:58.200 kind of be like they're out on you know, on 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:01.280 some sort of reconnaissment, reconnaissance mission and then the encounter 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:04.120 an enemy plane they can fire those off. In fact, 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:06.960 there's a there's a YouTube video from just before the 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:11.320 second I Rock War where um on a Rocky Meg 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:14.080 encounters one of these predators. Right. I was interested in this. 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:16.560 I mean, would an unmanned aerial vehicle be able to 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:21.920 engage top gun, Yes, sort of engage like it. You know, 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:24.600 it did some some defensive maneuvers, it fired off those 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:27.600 hell fires, but the MiG shot it down and and 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:30.680 at the time, like I saw like an old um, 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:32.880 you know, newsreel of this and they were like, finally 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:35.960 the the Iraqis, you know, have encountered a plane. They 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:38.520 can outmaneuver an outgun, you know, which was you know, 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:40.680 I guess there's a lot of chest bumping at you know, 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:43.400 not chest bumping, chest stumping at that time, which maybe 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:46.520 chess bumping or maybe chess bumping. It feels a little like, 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:48.960 you know, since everything that's happened since then, it feels 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:52.720 a little little tacky. But but but but yeah, that's 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:56.040 an example of where you know, the predator wasn't able 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:59.440 to hang with a human pilot and uh and and 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:02.000 for that reason, like dog fighting is definitely one of 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:05.640 those areas that that humans have a good hold on. 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:08.360 Those jobs aren't going to disappear anytime soon, except dog 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:11.920 fighting has kind of disappeared, at least in our current 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:14.960 military situation. The predator comes equipped with some pretty cool 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:18.840 stuff like the weeper holes. Yeah, this was amazing. Um 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:21.800 you've seen you've seen Iron Man, right, you know that 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:23.840 scene where he goes up he's like shooting up into 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:25.599 the area. He's all excited about it, and he starts 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:28.600 freezing up, covering with ice and then plummets. Well it's 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:31.320 like it's the same deal, you know, except without Robert 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:35.280 Downey Jr. Right, Yeah, without without without him behind the 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:38.279 wheel as it were. Um, yeah, And these are just 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:41.320 the edges of the wings are titanium and they're dotted 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:47.040 with the microscopic weeping holes. Needs allow an ethylene glycol 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:50.880 a solution to seep out out of internal reservoirs and 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:53.240 break down the ice it forms on the wings steering flight. 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:55.440 So you think you would have thought of that, you know, 0:04:55.560 --> 0:05:01.760 and being a weapons designer, right right, right, So just 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:03.480 to give you guys a scoop, it's not just one 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:07.799 predator flying up. Typically, Um, you'll usually have a small 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:11.240 army of four predators with the sensors, and then you're 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:14.479 gonna have a ground control station that is where the 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:17.479 pilots are sitting, and you're going to have sensor operators 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:21.200 and you're also have a satellite link communication suite. Yeah, 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:24.280 there's like there's like one pilot, two crew members operating 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:27.080 stuff on the ground. There's a direct line of sight 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:30.000 link between the two, and then there's a satellite up links. 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:32.920 So it's it's not just like sending out a robot 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:36.039 to do a guy's job. It's like a it's like 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:38.600 a system, you know, with with plenty of guys still 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:41.920 involved in the process. And the aircraft can stay up 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:44.320 for roughly twenty four hours. And what they'll do is 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:46.080 we'll swap out one and they'll put another one up 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:48.320 so that they can have constant coverage. Yeah, it's like 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:51.040 if like if they unveiled like some robot louder Milks here, 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:53.240 you know, it's like one would do a you know, 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:55.560 eight hour shift and then another one would take over 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:58.320 right after that. You met, you bet, And uh, the 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:02.320 Reaper is uh kind of like the younger batter brother 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:05.520 of the Predator, Yeah, and the more heavily equipped one 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:08.080 at that it's heavier. The predator can go like a 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:12.280 hundred forty miles per hour, and the Reaper can go 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:15.520 three hundred UM. While the Predator has just those two 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:19.240 missiles um, the Reaper can hold like fourteen hellfire missiles 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:21.400 that can carry you know, carry a lot a lot 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:24.279 of heavier armaments. So it's uh, and it's it's basically 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:27.840 picking up and making an offensive weapon out of the 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:31.039 the reconnaissance technology, right It also comes equipped with some 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:34.640 laser ranger finders that can locate and transmit our images 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:37.680 of the targets. And the Reaper can also carry two bombs, 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:40.520 which is as many as the most standard fighter jets. Yeah, 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:44.440 and the Reapers, of course, there are currently in operation 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:48.960 there out there doing their job in the Middle East. Right. 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:51.880 I think it began flying missions back in October two seven. 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:55.720 So tell me a little bit about Noel Sharky, Who've 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:59.800 got to interview for the Discovery News article. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:02.520 no is a really cool dude. He is a professor 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:05.640 of Artificial Intelligence and robotics at the University of Sheffield 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:07.919 in the UK, and he's also the co founder of 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:12.600 the International Committee for Robotics Arms Control, and he's just 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:16.080 he's really a guru on all things um on robotics 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:18.120 in general. But he's he's really made it his mission 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:21.600 to to get out there and get information out about 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:25.560 the current state of robotic weaponry and and sort of 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:27.240 you know, where we're headed in the future and making 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:29.200 sure that we're heading in the right direction. So, I mean, 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:30.840 he's like I think he's been on The Daily Show, 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:33.200 you know. He he's and he's one of these guys. 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:35.440 He can just he can talk for hours on the 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:39.880 second Yeah, yeah, he talked to me for like half 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:41.920 an hour, maybe forty or five minutes, and it was 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:44.720 all awesome. We could have kept going, but you know, 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:47.320 I wouldn't have any place to put it. So Sharky 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:51.360 was making the distinction between in loop systems, specifically men 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:54.920 and loop systems, right and man on the loop systems. Yeah, 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:56.640 this is really this is really cool and apparently these 0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:00.240 are these are industry terms for these, um, but the 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:02.400 systems that we were talking about just now the Predator 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:06.040 the Reaper with you know, with a command system on 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:08.320 the ground with guys working, and that is a man 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:11.840 in the loop system, all right. That means that someone 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:15.800 controls the applications of lethal force. And you know, it's 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:19.200 like other stuff will be will be automated, but but 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:21.600 there'll be certain key things that a person is definitely 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:25.040 taking care of. And likewise, it can operate on its own. 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:28.360 It can be programmed, Sharky says, to react to the GPS, 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:30.320 so it can go about on its own. It can 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:33.439 navigate itself. Um, but a pilot is still going to 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:36.280 step into control the heightened Yeah, and there's still there. 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:40.640 They're guys, you know, they're manning the thing on the ground, right, 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:42.360 So a man in the loop is really a hybrid 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:45.760 between you know, channa, So a man on the loop 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:49.400 system is really a hybrid. Then huh, but the the 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:52.040 next step and we're not there yet, but but like 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:54.400 the next step in the evolution of this would be 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:58.840 a man on the loop and uh. In this you'd 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:01.040 have a swarm of playing And when we say swarm, 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:03.160 don't think of like bees exactly. Swarm. It's like a 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:06.360 robotics term for, you know, a bunch of robots that 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:10.839 are operating in chorus with one another. So in this system, 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:14.560 there would be multiple planes and a you know, in 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:18.079 a full computerized system, but instead of having like one 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:21.160 crew on the ground for each plane, they'd be like 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:25.760 one crew for numerous planes. Um, you know, it's kind 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:29.920 of like imagine like a really rowdy kid at the beach, right, 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:32.160 and you have a parent like over his shoulder at 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:34.720 all times, making sure that he's not like eating sand 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:38.320 or you know, punching crabs or whatever, you know, bad 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:40.840 stuff kids do them. Yeah, I'm pretty familiar with the scenario. 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:43.880 So so that's that's that's man in the loop. Man 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:46.040 on the loop is like, you have a bunch of 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:49.320 kids that are reasonably well behaved, and somebody's just keeping 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:51.360 an eye on them, you know, Right, you get a 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:53.839 chance to sneak a peek at your summer reading your 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:56.600 trashy novel while the kids are swimming, you know, in 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.199 the ocean and jumping the waves, but occasionally step in 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:01.240 make sure they're right closen up to the beach. So 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:03.800 the next logical step in all this is just letting 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:07.439 the kids go to the beach by themselves, right and 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:09.680 and well, and you're gonna have a party. We'll see 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:12.800 you're concerned. And that's that's the key, because maybe the 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:14.760 kids aren't ready to go to the beach by themselves, 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:18.800 and likewise, neither is the technology. Yeah yeah, Likewise, do 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:22.000 we have the technology to send out robots on their 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:28.400 own to wage war or even wage reconnaissance? Um? And uh? 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:31.120 And should we even if we do have that technology. 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:32.800 I think you always need the red button. I think 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:34.839 you always need the executive pilot who's going to be 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:37.679 able to cancel the attack at any moment. I think 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:40.480 it's a predominant thinking on the matter. Yeah, So let's 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:44.480 talk about the advantages of some of these unmanned aerial vehicles. Um, 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:46.600 you found a pretty good article on this from Christian 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:50.000 Science Monitor writer Gregory M. Lamb new Relation. Yeah, he 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:53.439 did a good job of running through the panages. Right. 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:55.440 So obviously one of the things is that we're going 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:57.040 to be able to protect our own soldiers, our own 0:10:57.080 --> 0:10:59.360 human soldiers. We're not going to have to put them 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:03.000 in interest missions, you know, whether it's crawling through caves 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:07.000 or uh street distrect urban combat, and ultimately we may 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:09.800 reduce casualties. Although I do think that there is still 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:13.280 a place for um, you know, infantry man in in 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:17.200 in combat. I don't I don't see robots entirely replacing that, 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:19.600 do you not? The current state of infantry now, And 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:23.480 that's the really interesting part. If we were introducing robots 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:26.560 into like the infantry of a hundred years ago, like 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:30.240 back when you had you know, clearly drawn lines, you know, 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:32.760 on the battlefield, and you had guys in uniform that 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:34.600 kind of thing, you had a much you know, as 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:38.559 much clearer and far more distinct, and you could conceivably 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:40.960 like send in a robot to do things like all right, 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:44.360 anybody in this uniform will be shot or anybody in 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:49.720 this area will be carpet bombed. Um. But but modern warfare, 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:50.880 I mean it's kind of the point where you just 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:53.440 don't have as much um, you know, black and white. 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:56.360 It's nuanced, right, I mean, you may have an area 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:58.360 like you all right, you can identify as like a 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:00.920 kill box where you know there's there's the enemy is 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:03.880 dense enough in this area that you can just unleash 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:06.600 full force on it. But aside from that, I mean, 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:09.360 you know, you have you know, you have street to 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:13.199 street warfare and heavily populated areas. I mean basically, the 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:16.920 whole situation in Iraq and Afghanistan is just not suitable 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:19.719 for at least you know, certainly on the ground for 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:23.040 a for a robotic warfare. And according to some, the 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:26.920 the neither is the the aerial scene. Right. Well, so 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:29.679 you could take this as an advantage or disadvantage. Um. 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:34.320 Some see civilian casualties being reduced with robotic warfare, especially 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:37.199 these unmanned aerial vehicles. But it all relies on human 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:40.240 information or misinformation, is the case, may be, right, right, 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:44.479 And that also assumes that you could introduce sufficient ethical programming. 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:49.920 According to Gregory Lamb. Yeah, there's a there's a UM 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:52.600 there's a project to Georgia Tech actually that was looking 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:55.360 into that and Ethical governor for robots. And this is 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:58.280 a key area UM something called the principle of distinction 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:01.040 UM and this is and this is something that the 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:03.839 International Committee for Robotics Arms Controller or or BIG I'm 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:06.560 talking about UM and and this is this is an 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:09.840 example that sharky uh put put forth. All Right, imagine 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:12.760 that you have in any war, you're gonna have people 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:16.280 that are immune to armed force. All right, You're gonna 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:19.560 have like, you know, wounded soldiers shouldn't be you know, 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:22.800 executed in the street. People should be able to surrender, 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:25.800 health workers should be able to get through. Civilians should 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:29.720 you know, not be harmed. Clergyman clergyman, yeah, yeah, et cetera. 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:31.760 All these people. So you're gonna have to have you 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:34.000 canna have a robot that's going to distinguish between all 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:36.199 these people. I mean that's pretty complicated. I Mean, we 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:39.120 have some some pretty high tech sensing equipment, but but 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:42.800 nothing that really replicates, you know the ability of you know, 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:45.120 if a human to take all that data and make 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:48.400 a judgment, right, the ability to interpret our definitely, Like well, 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:51.000 you like back to Sharky's example, It's like, say you 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:53.920 had a funeral procession, right, and if you you had 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:57.199 a robot that was designed to identify a funeral procession 0:13:57.280 --> 0:13:58.920 and say, all right, I'm not going to attack those 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:01.800 guys because that's that's a few Well, then what would 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:04.959 happen the next day, right, You'd have you'd have enemy 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:10.640 you know, combatants UM generally marched into the street. Um. 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.520 So yeah, so yeah, it's like robots are not in 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:17.120 a position to make those kind of of choices. Now 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:20.880 the people are working on the Ethical Governor program. Their 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:24.080 argument was that, well, in some situations you could you 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:27.280 could create a program like not for like street to street, 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:29.400 you know, house to house warfare kind of a situation 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:31.680 where there's just too many factors. But if you had 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:34.960 say like if you had to say a reconnaissance robot 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:39.640 and you had a designed to respond to to UM force, 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:42.800 you know, even you could conceivably have it programmed to 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.680 where it could make the right decision. But but it's 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.480 still very this is a huge topic of discussion, right, 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:51.160 and it's not there, right, Yeah, the technologies yet not 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:54.200 there yet. So another advantage of using a robot might 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:59.480 be that they act as a force multiplier. So, um, 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:03.520 that is that you could extend your manpower farther. You 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:06.360 could have one soldier, one human fighter who was commanding 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:10.200 a squad of robots that were working semi autonomously on 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:14.360 the loop. Right right, right right, Okay, so you could 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:21.240 have much smaller army that is augmented with mechanical soldiers. Okay. Yeah, 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:24.360 And then of course, um, robots can make faster decisions 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:28.440 than a slow humans and that's an important advantage on 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.160 the modern battlefield where everything happens really fast. It's hard 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:33.800 to process all that information and you know, things like 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:36.760 shocks set in or their injuries and and a robot 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:39.280 it's just going to make that split second decision. Whether 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:41.160 or not it's the right one is open for discussion, 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:42.840 but it can make that. It does have that split 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.640 second capability. Yeah, and you know to that point, they're 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.120 not affected by emotion. They're not gonna get it angry 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:54.480 or vengeful or hungry or fatigued, tired, any of that. Yeah. 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.080 And uh, and Sharky just guts that and he said 0:15:57.120 --> 0:15:59.440 that I think his words were a quote, and neither 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:01.560 does my refrigerator. But that doesn't mean I'm going to 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:06.000 give it a weapon until it to go kill people. Um. 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:09.520 That's an interesting perspective along these lines. Two of the 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:15.440 other big disadvantages are how easy robotic weaponry can conceive 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.720 if we make it make killing. You know, it's if 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:21.280 you're you know, you're in a little studio or a 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:24.400 little control room and you're navigating a robot you know, 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:27.920 on the other you know, miles and miles away, you know, 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:32.000 to blow up an apartment or something. You're you're you 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.280 know that that we have that disconnect from the violence, 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:36.560 you know, and what does that do to us? Uh? 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:40.640 And similarly, if you if you were waging war and 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:44.080 you're sending out robot soldiers, robot soldiers that you know, 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:46.360 they get blown up, they crash, and and a large 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:48.800 number of the predators, for instance, have either been blown 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:51.440 up by the enemy or they've crashed. We even had 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:55.200 to shoot one down, I believe, um and because because 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:58.120 we've lost control with it and we had to had 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:00.280 to take it out. So if you're sending out these 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:03.360 robots soldiers and and they're just you know, they're crashing 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:05.159 or they're blowing up and they're doing their job whatever. 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:07.480 You're not getting body bags coming up, right, You're not 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:11.119 getting you know, images on the on the nightly news 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:15.000 of of grieving mothers, etcetera. And so therefore it makes 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:18.920 it easier politically to wage war because where's the outcry. 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:21.560 You know, nobody's you know, writing folk songs about the 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:25.800 poor robots that are that are dying. Right, I think 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.640 you can make the argument that presently we're disconnected from 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.119 wars going on all around us. Um, you know, at 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:34.600 least if you don't have a husband or a wife 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:37.359 or a brother, you know, some family members serving in 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:39.400 one of the wars, then then I think you might 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:43.520 be disconnected. Although at this point we've we've been bombarded 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:45.600 with so many images, you know, whether it's on the 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:47.920 news or reading a story in the newspaper. So I 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:50.160 don't know if that's true anymore because the war has 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:53.240 gone on so long, But at least initially at the outset, 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:56.600 I think that, yeah, currently people can be pretty disconnected 0:17:56.600 --> 0:18:00.600 from a new war. Yes, what do you think? I think? So? 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:03.160 I mean the you know, the same technology of course, 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:06.359 also allows us to see images, you know, immediately of 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.600 what you know, what's happening on the battlefield or you know, 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:13.760 in the streets of Flusha or what have you. So, 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:15.359 so you have the same technology that can bring us 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:19.280 closer can also distances someone. So how effective are the 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:21.359 predator in the reaper? Have you found any stats on 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:23.919 what they're doing to the state of warfare? You know, 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:27.080 how many targets they are talking, Well, they've they've been 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:29.560 pretty pretty successful. I mean, that's why it's such a 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:32.239 growth industry. I mean, you have you know, it's one 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:34.879 of the the ua V s are one of the 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:39.000 more sought after areas in the U S military and 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:42.720 various other militaries around the world are are involved in 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:45.520 in other ua V projects, And there's a lot of 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:49.440 effort to get the ground based stuff rolling um literally 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:53.240 um at a at a much and a much great 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:56.119 greater pace too because this you know, it's lags significantly. 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:58.080 I mean you have you know, like you know, bomb 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:00.639 disposal bots and those have been really used well, but 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:05.840 you don't really see robotic like weaponized ground vehicles yet, 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:08.760 um none, not that, not any that are actually really 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:10.399 working there. You know a lot of them in you know, 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:14.080 test phases, etcetera. So just going back to the U. 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:17.679 A V. Specifically, I was reading a article about drones 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:20.400 in the Atlantic and one of the military men interviewed 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:23.600 was comparing drones as a strategy. That's a lot like 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:26.000 attacking a hype of bees with a single bee and 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:29.000 taking out one b at a time. Do you think 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:31.920 that's a Do you think that's an opt to analogy? Yeah, 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:34.160 I mean it's a I mean the aim of it 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:36.040 is to be, you know, like a strategic kind of 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:38.080 warfare thing. You know, this one we call these a 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:42.000 decapitation strikes, you know, because here you're taking out supposedly 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:45.280 the head of something. You know, you're be at a 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:47.920 you know, a military leader, you know, taking a nap 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:51.080 on his rooftop or you know, or an arm some 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:54.840 sort of armament, et cetera, cash of weapons. Yeah. I 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:56.399 think that's the real take on is that we we 0:19:56.440 --> 0:19:59.119 have to to keep our eyes on where this technology 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:01.480 is now and it's going. And that's that's what the 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:03.800 International Committee for Robotics arm of Control is really into. 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:07.920 Um not as much saying we shouldn't have robotic you know, soldiers, 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:10.120 or that we you know, we should just we should 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:12.240 use them all the time, but rather we should really 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:14.840 think about what we're doing as we proceed, and we 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:17.320 should proceed with a full knowledge of what the technology 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:22.119 is and what it isn't um because it's uh, you know, 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:24.480 and we've we've talked about this before. It's really easy 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:29.360 to to trick yourself um into into thinking robots are 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:31.879 doing things that they're not, like like attributing them with 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:35.320 with wisdom that they're not capable of our judgment, et cetera. 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:37.880 Um and just and like I say, keeping in mind 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:42.000 like how changing changing the way we wage war changes 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:46.080 the the changes how easy it is to partake in 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:49.320 it right right, So if you guys are curious about 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:52.560