WEBVTT - Stranger Things Finale Reactions 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:00.800 Warning. 0:00:01.240 --> 0:00:05.280 Today's episode cad spoilers for the final season and the 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:07.760 series finale of Stranger Things. 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:08.440 You warned. 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:26.080 O What Happy New Year. 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:28.840 My name is Jason Concepcion And on Mersey. 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:30.680 Night, We're back. We're back. 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:34.239 It's the new year. Everything's great, everything is perfect. 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.160 World is going on. 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:41.519 And welcome back to kes revision of the podcast where 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:43.680 we dive thee to your favorite shows, movies, comics of 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:45.639 pop culture coming from my heart. We're bringing you three 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:46.800 episodes week last News. 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:51.479 In today's episode, Joel and Aaron are joining us to 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:55.240 deep dive into the sensory deprivation tank to react to 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:59.720 Stranger Things season five finale. Together, we'll talk through what worked, 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:03.080 what didn't, the ambiguous ending, the cultural impact of the 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:05.920 show over the last ten years, and how it looked 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:07.880 in a fit, which is where I saw it. But 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:10.640 first into the century deprivation type. 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:18.280 We go in. Okay, let's bring in super producers Joe 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:23.720 Ellen Aaron to discuss the long I was actually stunned 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:27.479 when I realized how long this show has been crazy streaming. 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:28.800 It's been a decade. 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:29.760 A decade. 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:35.240 We dive into the final season. Aaron Jowell, Welcome. 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:37.840 How's he goesy? 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:41.960 Excited to be here and to talk about our favorite 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:42.720 upside down? 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:44.080 Is this the only upside down? 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:45.440 I guess it's the only one. 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:46.600 Yeah, it's the only? 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:48.360 Well is this? 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:54.360 I mean that's kind of my questions. Well, let's quickly discuss. 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:59.400 I will say there were no I personally, here's my 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:03.080 takeaway quick take. I have no issues that didn't exist 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:06.160 in previous seasons with the season finale, and I liked it. 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:08.320 I thought the finale worked well. I thought it probably 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:11.000 I thought it worked the best for me than almost 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:14.079 any episode of this season, probably almost any episode of 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:16.639 the season. I'm a sucker for nostalgia. 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:17.720 I liked it. 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:20.960 Uh, what is everybody's quick take? Rosie start? 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:24.160 I saw it in the movie theater at first. I 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:28.680 saw it in the Egyptian and on New Year's Day, 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:31.640 and I have to say, seeing it on the big screen, 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:34.799 and we'll get into this later, was an extremely different 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:38.440 experience and overall a very positive one. In that theater, 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:40.880 it was very clear that this was like endgame for 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:44.720 a lot of people, and also visually it looked so 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:47.840 much better on the big screen than the finale looked 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:50.000 on the TV. And that to me is a problem 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:52.520 which we'll get into later, but generally I went in 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:55.680 with lowish expectations and the spectacle of it all and 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:58.239 the huge big screen and taking my friends who loved 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:00.520 the show made me enjoy it a lot more, which 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:02.280 was a nice way to end it. Aaron and Joel, 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:03.160 how do you feel an act? 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:06.400 Yeah, I'm basically exactly the same as you, Jason. Like 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:08.440 anything that didn't work for me in the show before, 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:12.040 this didn't change that. But this worked really well within 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:15.680 the context of the show, and I thought, like Rosie, 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:17.960 you know you brought up endgame. I kind of thought 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:22.760 the final fight against Vecna the mind flare had hints 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:25.800 of the first Avengers movie, where we have very different 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:28.360 scopes of what everyone can do, but they all feel 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:32.520 somewhat useful at some point in that fight, which I enjoy, and. 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:34.480 They come together with that skills. 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:37.040 Yeah, so I was very happy with it. 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.400 It was the perfect thing to sit down at like 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:41.960 eleven am January first and watch. 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:42.440 On the couch. 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:44.640 I think, Joelle, what about you? 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:49.440 I'm met at all of you. I think it's rude 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:53.120 as hell. I like, I had a lot of issues. 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:54.640 I was not having fun. 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:58.480 I thought the length of a Finelle maybe want to scream. 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:00.880 And I had just seen fire and and I was like, 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:03.040 I've never met. 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:05.080 A person who's like, make it shorter, thank me. To 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:06.800 be sure. I love long pod. I'll listen to a 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:09.160 three hour pod. I love an epically long movie. 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:12.240 But these two experiences back to back was absolute torture. 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:14.920 And then on top of that, y'all not giving me 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:18.760 like answers. I'm just out here too, wondering if my 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:22.760 main character is alive or not. I it's sense, and 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:24.800 you brought brown people back to kill them. 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:31.839 Okay, we're gonna talk about that, so let's okay, let's 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:33.720 talk about that. 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:36.800 Let's talk about some of the unanswered questions, because I 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:40.840 think we got some nice closure. I quite enjoyed the 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:43.360 extended coda, but let's talk about the un well. 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:44.960 I want to no, no, no, I just want to 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:47.880 quickly bring something up about the coda, because I also 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:48.880 really enjoyed it. 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:49.600 I love it. 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:52.120 I thought it was actually so good and I was like, oh, 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:53.680 Lord of the Rings, blah blah blah. But then I 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:55.479 went back and rewatched it when I got home to 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:57.520 be like, okay, why do we leave everyone? And Erica 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:00.400 isn't in it again. I think this is another issue 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:02.520 about brown people in this show. And they're like, no, 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:05.279 she was at the how they no, she's at the graduation, 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:08.880 but she doesn't get like, what's happening next prologue And 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:12.279 she also isn't in the next generation of kids playing 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:14.479 D and D as their leader, so she basically just 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:17.880 gets left out of what happens next. That's a big oversight. 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:20.839 And then Duffer brothers were like, she's an independent woman. 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:22.800 We can't tell her what to do. It's like, she's 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:24.600 your character, what do you mean? 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:31.120 Her and Murray disappearing essentially from the extended nothing on 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:34.920 them is weird even keep in like I mean. 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:38.360 Murray had no no. 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:41.160 I agree Murray was weird to keep in, but if 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:43.920 you keep him in. He threw the fucking touchdown pass 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:49.000 with the grenade, like there's someone else did They could 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:51.080 have done that, and they should have maybe done that, 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:54.320 but like to have Murray involved to that level and 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:59.080 then he's gone is weird. And I will say, Okay, generally, 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:03.560 I think that I boil down to a lot of 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:07.640 the ambiguousness, the unanswered questions, the unclosed loops down to 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:13.320 a kind of core philosophy of Netflix, you know, with 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:18.440 with other streamers, other studios, HBO for instance, there's a 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:24.360 kind of ruthless ethos of you know, we're storytellers and 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:27.440 that means stakes, and that means your loved ones. Your 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:32.840 beloved ones will die occasionally, and maybe often Netflix is like, 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:36.120 we're here, We're up the panacea, We're here to make 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:39.800 you feel good. Like as a core philosophy, we're looking 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.960 at numbers to see what the fans love, and if 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:45.120 they love that, we want to give them more of it. 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:47.640 And so I feel like. 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:53.920 I think a lot of my enjoyment of the finale 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:59.599 is that I knew going in maybe ain't nobody to die. 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:03.760 It was weird, and they're gonna do some bullshit where 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:09.360 it's like they bring back the sister you never knew 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:14.040 about the sister of color that we have no like 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:17.280 character building on, and she's gonna die and you're not 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:19.320 gonna care about that because that's what we do here, 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:23.280 That's what the numbers told us is gonna work. And 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:27.160 I think a lot of it is lower is to 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:28.320 an extent, lowered expects. 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:31.520 Well, I y, I kind of like what you're saying 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:34.200 that too, because I do think that one of the 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:37.000 most interesting things coming out of strange of things is 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:39.280 gonna be like I mean, and there's gonna be books 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:43.440 written on this. But the notion of like TV made 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:47.559 via algorithm, and I think you touch on that because 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:50.320 we don't know how Netflix gets their data, and the 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:53.760 things that worked and that they see as working do 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:57.520 come from like my taste space. So for example, a 0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:00.560 character I never usually like, right is Nancy. Don't have 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:02.880 any interest in her. I think the love interest the 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:06.160 love triangle is try like, never interested. I like that 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:08.920 she was a journalist, but it was derivative Lois Lane, 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:12.520 who cares no. In the finale on the big screen 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.960 in the upside down dimet well not upside down in 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:18.640 the dimension X planet, which many people have been rinsing 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:20.680 them for looking like Lincoln Park. When you watch it 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:32.240 on the Netflix, it looks like but not on the TV, 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:35.080 it actually didn't look like that. And you know what 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:39.720 worked really well for me is like Nancy in Eddie 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:42.719 Munson's old Wig, basically confirmed it's the same wig from 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:47.640 multiple shots at this point, her in that wig walking 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:53.200 through this dusty dystopian kind of landscape with her big 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:56.559 fucking gun just shooting people. That shit worked on the 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:59.160 big screen. I was watching her thinking you could be 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:02.320 in a Terminator movie. This is the nostalgia they learned 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:06.080 from and worked within that worked for me. I think 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:08.480 the problem is, as this is something we talked about 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:11.920 the original too It movies, I think often nostalgia is 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:14.520 a chore. Is also a chance for them to go, well, 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:17.520 you know what didn't work back then inclusion, or you 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:20.160 know what did work back then? Bringing back because look, 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:22.680 the other thing about the Carly situation, which for me 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:25.079 is a big issue because as we know, I'm one 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:28.440 of it, it was the fact was it sucks. It sucks, 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:31.839 and also not just that. I do not believe for 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:34.600 a second that that was ever the plan. I think 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:37.760 that they brought her back because everyone says, hey, why 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:40.120 didn't you bring her back? Who is she? She's useless, 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:42.719 and because people didn't like her, they killed her. I think, 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:45.360 in its own way, this is another fan service, and 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:49.040 I fucking hate that because actually, anything I think that's 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:52.640 really good about Lost Sister originally is we do get 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:55.320 the interior lives of all these different kids, and it's 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:58.880 not just about them fighting the minds flair. You actually 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:00.960 got to know who they were here. We know nothing 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:04.280 about Carli. She's just a sage brown woman who's gonna 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:06.680 kill herself for a white lady. And I think that 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:11.280 filmmaking by algorithm and the idea of nostalgia can both 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:14.440 push us forward into new cool versions of stuff, not 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:17.640 saying Stranger Things did that, honestly, but it can also 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:19.880 stick us in the old tropes. And I think the 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:22.960 Karli Erica stuff for me felt like that. But Joelle, 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:24.800 it was one thing that worked for you, and I 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:26.600 do want to hear about it because I think you 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:28.720 did a great job of laying out kind of how 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:32.240 well they built in the easter eggs that did work 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:34.720 and the long term stuff that came in from season 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:36.120 one onwards. 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:39.600 Yeah, So my holiday was spent mostly watching like Heated 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:44.080 Rivalry and The Stranger Things finale and going on the internet. 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:45.160 You want to talk nostalgia. 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:47.480 I was like, we're back, baby, We're talking TV twenty 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:49.400 four to seven, three sixty. I got new memes, I've 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:53.280 got hidden Easter eggs, I've got three good jillion interviews 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:55.680 to watch. It was an amazing time just to be 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:59.120 online and loving TV. And while I didn't have a 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:02.640 good time watching the andalely, rewatching it through the internet's 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:05.600 eyes was more rewarding. 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:08.120 Watching folks get excited. You know. 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:10.800 The thing I think I picked up most was dustin 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:14.560 graduation speech, which was kind of weird when you don't 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:17.040 know how they ended high school. Really there's like a. 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:19.839 Year and still graduated. 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:25.040 She studied so hard in Okay, she was still conscious. 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:26.760 She had all the time in the cave. 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:37.520 Hard knocks. 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:40.040 If she sat in classes when she was hanging out 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:42.160 with the parents back in their high school days, she 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:43.199 could easily graduate. 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:46.160 I digress. His speech is pretty. 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:48.520 Much forbade him what Eddie says he wished he would 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:50.680 be able to do when he would graduate a couple 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:55.400 of seasons ago. Uh, there were things like the clothing 0:11:56.800 --> 0:12:00.680 that they imagine. L we're talking about clothing, but the 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:03.800 clothing elawares in that final scene, it's her same color 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:06.599 theory as when she first appears in their light. So 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:10.320 this idea of her innocence. And there's like a bunch 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:12.600 of like little moments like that where if you're a 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:15.959 deep fan and you've been watching regularly, like you, I 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:18.480 think hearing from the fans and how rewarded they felt. 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:20.160 I was like, well, it worked for the people it 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:21.240 needed to work for. 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:24.760 And that's how I felt about Five Nights of Freddy's too, 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:27.719 Like my literal review for Five Nights of Freddy's two 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:31.040 is like huge win for kids who watch YouTube blow videos, 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:34.480 and that is the demographic. So it's like, this is 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:37.160 why people love that movie. This is why people love 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:39.160 the show. I love that the one that I thought 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:41.800 was really funny that I'm not gonna lie my old head, Like, 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:46.280 if I was gonna have an Adjason aka Stephen A 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:49.040 Smith of X ray Vision Style BRANDT, mine would be 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:55.520 about the Beckner's like Castle Slash, kind of like Giant 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:59.280 Spider on the Dark Crystal POSTA bitch that one it is. 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:01.880 But also if you actually look in season one, it's 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:03.760 just the fucking dark Crystal poster. 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:04.120 Guys. 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:06.840 The Dark Crystal posters already always looked like that, and 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:09.120 they just made something that looked like that. 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:11.960 For anyone who doesn't know what Rosie's referring to. 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:14.480 In season one, they have the Dark Crystal poster and 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:18.120 people were showing screenshots of that saying, look, they planned 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:19.880 it all along. They knew this was going to be 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:22.520 in the final season and obviously not the case. It 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:24.640 just they designed it to look like I. 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:27.520 Love and I will say this is my defense of 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:31.200 the ambiguous ending too. I do think something they understand 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:33.360 about the show and why they can do stuff like 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:36.480 that and utilize stuff that they've put in before and 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:38.560 try and tie it together in a way that makes sense, 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:39.840 which is kind of what you should be doing with 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:43.280 the TV show. But you know, is just also because 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:47.440 like the love and the fandom of the show will 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:50.439 put those clues together, and I have to say that 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:54.600 ambiguous ending for me, I did think and look, maybe 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:56.320 this is because I'm someone who had to cover this 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:59.440 show extensively in its first few seasons and we were 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:01.280 up in the middle of the night our friend BJ. 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:02.319 We love her. 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:05.679 I love how you're discussing this like you were on 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:07.480 like an Alaskan. 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:09.959 It was like it was. 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:13.440 Like three weeks time you were in the Russian covering 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:16.200 with him the Stranger. 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:22.160 Things, covering Stranger Things first three seasons. Bro, they will 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:24.640 not send you a screen now, and I'm saying, we 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:26.400 didn't get screeners for the see the guys, this is 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:28.280 why we're doing it on New Year's Eve, some of 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.280 our other incredible podcast colleagues got up on Christmas Day 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:34.120 and podcasted in their pajamas. Stranger Things have been making 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:36.840 it hard for journalists to do their job for a 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:39.920 long fucking time. And back in the day, it was 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:43.160 like we would have a team of twenty people and 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:45.040 we would be there and each of us would be like, Okay, 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:46.760 you watched this episode one in the morning, and you 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:49.440 do this take, and da da da da. It was crazy, 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:53.080 And I think that did help, and also all the 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:56.520 fandom and everything that helped keep the show alive, and 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:59.200 in a way, I did think it was nice to 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:03.400 have Micis essentially and the show with a theory, like 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:05.760 a theory like everyone else has done. 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:09.360 When we come back, we're going to talk the open 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:28.360 ended ending of Stranger Things, the finality, Okay, we're back here. 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:31.600 In my mind are the biggest like kind of open 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:39.480 questions of the season. One is Vecna's main plan. It's 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:43.280 still kind of open ended to me, and in particular 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:47.600 whether it's Vecna or the Mind Flayer who's actually the boss, 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:51.480 because I think what we've I know and I think 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:56.440 what we learned in the final kind of reveals of Arthur. 0:15:56.640 --> 0:16:02.040 Of mister Kreole's kind of biography is that it appears 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:07.520 that it was the mind Flare all along and two 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:11.240 and this is the big one. Eleven is she did, 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:17.000 I think because it's Netflix, No no, and. 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:20.280 She just signed six feel contract with them. 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:23.680 She's she's not dead until she turns down the contract 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:26.640 and then she and I'll be proud of her, and 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:33.200 she does. But in your minds, in everybody's minds, where 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:35.440 are we with that? And do you have any open 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:37.200 ended questions that you would love answer? 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:40.440 Rosie, I do want to start just with the notion 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:44.320 of who was behind it all, because again at home 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:48.800 absolutely did not understand and watched it twice at the 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:52.440 Egyptian cinema on the big screen. There is a big 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:57.160 focus on the moment when Will is connecting psychically with 0:16:57.200 --> 0:16:59.960 Henry and saying, hey, we are you going to help us? 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:03.080 Blah blah blah, and he's like, you don't understand. It 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:06.359 was the mind Flayer and I was just a young kid, 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:09.200 but now we are one, and I think, like, because 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:12.040 his name is one. But I also think the implication 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:15.520 is at some point he chose to be part of 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:18.879 the mind flayer and so but it's it's like, but 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:21.359 also the thing to me is like that I really 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:23.520 want to know about And I understand that this is, 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:26.080 you know, explained in the play, and there are many 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:28.080 articles where you can write it, and a lot of 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:29.720 people had seen the play or read about the plane 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:32.320 knew that the particles in the suitcase were part of 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:34.560 the play. But I'm sorry, guys, there's only so much 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:38.520 mcguffining that you can do. And in my opinion, the 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:41.680 idea that all of this happened because a kid found 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.480 a suitcase in a cave. You didn't think that was 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:48.920 a supercase of mind that had just come from alien Like, No, 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:52.040 that's silly. I'm sorry. You would have been better off. 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:54.520 There was so much interesting stuff that could have been 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:56.960 done with the notion of like the kids and the 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:59.560 pied piper of it all and why he was you know, 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:02.399 but this notion of like kids' brains all week. But 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:04.320 it's like, but your brain wasn't weak when you were 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:06.359 a kid, because you were able to control the mind players, 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:08.159 So like, why did you get that? I did? Like, 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:11.320 that's the mind players mentality, Like it doesn't really make sense. 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:14.080 I so I but I do think, I do think 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:16.520 it's meant to be that the at one point he 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:18.680 chose to be part of it and so he could 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:19.760 never get out. 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:23.960 This is my main sticking point with this. The entire 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:25.360 finale really. 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:27.760 Okay. 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:30.040 If they had to boil it down to, like what 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:33.280 is the issue, Like, what's the problem with how this ends? 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:36.240 Why don't you enjoy it? It's this. I'm a person 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:37.960 who I love an open ended stories. 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:42.399 I was thinking about, Uh, what's that? Amy Adams HBO 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:45.440 show is based off a novel. She thinks her mom's 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:47.520 like an awful person, but it's her sister. 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:51.760 Sharp Objects, Thank you, Carmen. So Sharp Objects gives you both. 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:55.520 A definitive answer and a good jillion question, And it's 0:18:55.560 --> 0:19:00.800 satisfactory because the main question has been answered and it 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.840 opens up a lot more questions. That's what an ambiguous 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:08.000 open ending does. And you're like, oh, I never thought 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:08.920 it could end that way? 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:10.960 What does that mean? For everything I've seen? Let me 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:11.920 go back and rewatch. 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:16.280 It is compelling and very interesting. I don't still know 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:20.600 next to nothing about Vecna. We saw his high school 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:24.680 classmate chop his head off, and there's no recognition between 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:27.560 him being like, wait, it's me or her being like. 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:28.320 Holy shit, it's you. 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:32.080 Like there's just there's so much threads they've built up 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:35.640 into a story that gives you no kind of catharsis 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:40.760 or conclusion or even a revelation about the person. And 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:43.879 because there's none of these like growth spaces for you 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:44.880 the viewer. 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:47.200 It lands like a thud. You're like, what are we? 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:49.760 Why did any of this just happen? Why does he 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:50.320 eat all? 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:53.080 That's a lot of kids t wrangle. What was the 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:57.960 point of all of them? And I just if the 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:02.840 whole thing is about, like it's confronting their trauma and 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:06.800 trying to figure out like who you are through your trauma, 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:12.600 I think retraumatizing the kids right exactly by losing their friend, 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:15.600 does it give us any kind and then not giving 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:18.000 us any kind of actual growth or confrontation of that. 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:20.760 But maybe it was this just I just felt so 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:22.520 like Bereft, I was like, I don't think these kids 0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:24.119 are gonna be okay. I think we're just throwing them 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:25.560 back into the world with more trauma. 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:26.240 I would say. 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:29.159 I also, I also do think as much as I 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:30.920 love the epilogue and I'm a lord of the Rings 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:33.879 epilogue defender. I would also say, like, have a bit 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:37.840 of imagination, guys like your ending is that they get married, 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:39.679 and then the ending for another one is like he 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:41.920 writes a book based on this, Like, come on, we 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:42.520 knew that. 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.919 Guys like stand by me. Okay, see they don't have 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:46.840 to be nostalgia. 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:50.800 I have a lot more to say about that particular piece, 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:53.680 but Aaron, in terms of the open end and ending, 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:57.480