WEBVTT - 9. Judgement 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:05.479 Murder on Songbird Road is a production of iHeart Podcasts. 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:13.119 Previously on Murder on Songbird Road. The trial transcripts and 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:18.079 Julia Beverly's interrogation video provided incredible insights into the prosecution's 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:19.239 case against Beverly. 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:25.759 Always who I've left shirts you there for? 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:27.800 I should have just take her with. 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:31.760 That speaks to her innocence. It does. 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:35.960 Beverly voluntarily agreed to be questioned without an attorney. She 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:38.839 also consented to the collection of her DNA. 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:40.320 There was a lot of red flags. 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:43.640 Let me say that if I was training here, I 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:45.360 would have stopped him and said, you need to change 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:45.879 your gloves. 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:48.760 They're not going to test everything. They're just not. 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:53.680 But all the critical things, which had they been brought 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:59.200 up on cross examination, would have absolutely laid waste to 0:00:59.280 --> 0:00:59.959 the state's case. 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:05.920 None of Jade Beasley's electronic devices were forensically tested none. 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:12.600 Why that they didn't even look at any of those 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:18.679 devices to find out if Jade was active in order 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:24.200 to build a timeline, a real timeline is unbelievable to me. 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:31.560 I'm Lauren brad Pacheco, and this is Murder on Songbird Road. 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:54.120 As I began writing this episode, I received an email 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:58.000 from the Investigation Secretary of the Williamson County Sheriff's Office 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:02.000 approving my request for survey aolence footage from Huck's gas station. 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:06.080 The video showed Beverly driving up, depositing something in one 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:09.799 of the waste containers, and then leaving. After watching it, 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:11.800 Bob and I compared our thoughts. 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:14.720 The thing that concerned me the most is did she 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:17.120 drive around to the back to go to a dumpster? 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:21.920 Because we had started hearing rumblings that she had gone 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:22.240 to the. 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:24.800 Back either first or last. 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:27.919 And that she had dumped things in that dumpster as 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:31.239 well as this this small receptacle that is in between 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:35.919 the pumps. So that concern in terms of if I'm 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:40.480 thinking Julie is not guilty of this crime, that concern 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:44.040 has been obliterated. She clearly did not go to any dumpster. 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:46.840 What we were told that she did is exactly what 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:49.440 it appears that she's doing, which is she pulled up 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:52.560 to that receptacle in between the two pumps like you 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:55.360 see it. Ninety nine point nine percent of all gas 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:59.040 stations she's in there for I don't know, fifteen twenty 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:03.520 seconds gathering whatever garbage is in the car, and then 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:05.160 you see her step out. 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:10.080 And then you have Mudge giving her hypothesis of what 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:14.120 Beverly was throwing away. From the trial transcript, here's Special 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:19.400 Prosecutor Jennifer Mudge hypothesizing what Julie Beverly was discarding at Hucks. 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:24.120 Quote there goes the knife, there goes the real shoes 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:25.120 she was wearing. 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:26.360 Unquote. 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:30.680 Keep in mind the prosecution also bundled into their speculation 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:34.320 of what that small plastic bag contained a shower curtain 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:38.240 and utensils recovered at the dump, none of which could 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:42.280 be traced back to Hucks, let alone the murder scene 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:42.960 back to Bob. 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:48.600 In theory, we're talking about clothes that would more likely 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:52.880 than not be absolutely saturated in blood, and the bag 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:56.040 would be heavy theoretically, if you're talking about one of 0:03:56.080 --> 0:04:00.960 those small plastic grocery bags, I mean, aren't you worrying 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:05.279 about like blood dripping out onto like you're leaving traces 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:08.640 of blood droplets on the ground or smearing it on 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:12.480 the they like when you watch the video, it looks 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:15.200 like somebody who's pulled up to a receptacle and a 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:18.240 gas station that's throwing some shit out of their car. 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:22.520 In that video, you see Beverly pull up between gas pumps, 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:26.000 pause for a second as she appears to partially prop 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:29.480 the passenger door open while rummaging about before stepping out 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:32.760 and tossing a loosely gathered bag in her right hand. 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:36.920 With that one hand. Beverly then gets back in and 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:39.960 drives off in the same direction she came from. 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:42.960 And nothing more like. She doesn't get out and look around. 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:46.279 She's not having to re you know, reconfigure the bag 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:46.880 in her hand. 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:48.920 There's no pushing it into the can. 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:51.360 It looks to me like she's got it in one 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:54.320 hand and she just drops it. There's no Oh, should 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:56.680 I maybe put some other garbage on top of this 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:59.159 garbage so that the next person doesn't see a bag 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:01.400 of bloody cloth, none of that extent. 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:04.159 It doesn't even look like it's fastn't it doesn't. 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:06.440 It looks like it's the other handle because those typically 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:07.800 those plastic bags. 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:12.799 Have too Again, remember what the prosecution contends was inside 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:17.240 that bag. It's the clothing she was wearing, the shoes 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:18.520 that she was. 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:21.039 Wearing, and the murder weapon. 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:25.719 And then you go to what they retrieved at the dump, 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:29.320 and they inferred was tossed as well, which would have 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:32.760 been the shower curtain. Bob and I have discussed how 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:36.960 the defense could have but did not push back. I 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:41.000 would have had all of those things and ask someone 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:45.600 to put them into a comparable sized plastic bag so 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:48.240 people could get the idea of what it would look 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:54.520 like to have shoes, clothing, towels, murder weapon, shower curtain. 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:57.960 If they could even fit it. I'll go step further. 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:03.400 I would have tried to pack a bag that size 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:06.680 with all of those things, and I would have shown 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:10.520 that it probably wouldn't have fit in that eighteen inch opening. 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:12.599 Yeah, not without pushing it in. 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:18.440 No, bring a comparable sized garbage can into the courtroom 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:20.839 and have somebody do it with one hand. 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:23.120 You wouldn't have been able to just toss it. 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:23.520 Right. 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:26.200 She's dropping it in. Yeah, she literally just kind of 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:29.159 leans over and just drops it in. Everything that you 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:32.480 would think about what would be going through a normal 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:36.440 person's mind if that is what they're disposing you do 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:40.240 not see in this video. Imagine that you are driving 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:45.360 up to a gas station and you are disposing of 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:47.560 bloody clothes that link you to. 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:51.040 A murder that just occurred, that you. 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:54.800 Committed spoiler alert, I wouldn't have done it at a 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:56.560 gas station with cameras everywhere. 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:58.000 There's not a chance. 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:03.240 There's not a chance in terms of a trial, the 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:07.600 fact that there was no resistance. Not only am I 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:11.560 testing the theory out that it's impossible to shove that 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:12.480 much stuff. 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:15.680 And you have to take into consideration. 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:21.520 Bloody towels or rags that were used to also clean up. 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:24.600 You can see what you're throwing out and where you're 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:28.480 doing it, and there's no way that that is a 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:32.400 bag of bloody clothes a murder weapon and shoes and. 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:35.720 Rags or whatever you use into shower. 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:39.440 Like, does that mean that she didn't do it? Not 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:43.480 necessarily in and of itself. Does it mean that I 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:46.280 don't think there's any way in hell that that's what 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:51.240 she was disposing of? There absolutely one, Like I would 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:52.160 die on that hill. 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:57.720 Special Prosecutor Mudge also contradicted the claim Beverly was wearing 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:02.400 flip flops. Quote so she tells police she had on 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:08.240 flip flops. It's December, she just went to Walmart flip flops, No, 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:11.520 and that they fell off her feet while she is 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:15.720 walking or pacing around the kitchen. Have you ever paste 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:19.160 around your own kitchen and your flip flops just fell 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:19.640 off of you. 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:23.679 I can't tell what kind of foot where she's wearing. 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:25.600 Does it look like she's wearing the flip flops to you? 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:29.520 Yeah, because it doesn't look like she's wearing shoes. You 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:33.240 can see the color of her arms, and she looks 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:38.280 like she's wearing cropped leggings, so you can see that 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:42.400 it doesn't appear that she's wearing shoes, which is right 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:44.560 in keeping with what a flip flop would look like 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:50.760 on a foot. Keep in mind that Special Prosecutor Mudge 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:53.760 scoffs at the thought that she would have been wearing 0:08:53.960 --> 0:09:00.640 flip flops to Walmart. But it's interesting if you groll 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:04.800 the footage before Beverly even pulls up multiple people, there's 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:06.680 a guy who gets out and he's wearing a cutoff 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:11.720 like T shirt with the sleeves completely removed. It's December, 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:17.480 but it was unseasonably warm. I also think that if 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:20.880 you had just murdered someone, and you know, remember the 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:25.720 prosecution contends this was after the murder, she would have 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:29.160 been covered with bloody scratches and bleeding hands. 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:30.520 Why would she. 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:34.800 Have been out and about in a T shirt, and 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:40.120 so again we have the magically clean then bleeding again hands. 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:45.160 So her hands were bloodied, the prosecution contends when she 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:51.200 was murdering Jade, then meticulously and miraculously they are cleansed 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:55.480 because she goes back to the office and types without 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:58.559 any blood anywhere for another fifty one minutes. 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:01.360 Then she further cleans. 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:05.760 Up and goes to hawks to dispose of everything comes 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:07.120 back in her hands are bloody again. 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:10.680 It's a magic bullet theory. I mean, it doesn't add 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:11.600 up to me. 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:16.000 The whole time frame of the state just never made 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:20.080 any sense. And the main reason is for what you 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:22.720 pointed out, which is that the fact that she got 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:26.800 back on the computer and worked for damn near an 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:28.960 hour which requires. 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:29.200 Her to type. 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:32.480 She's not on a mouse just clicking, she's having to 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:33.600 draft emails. 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:35.679 She's using the keyboard. 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:39.640 And if you've got an active bleeding wound on your hand, 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:44.360 the concept that there's not one iota, not one speck 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:49.240 of blood anywhere in that office, anywhere, on that keyboard, anywhere, 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:54.560 on that desk nowhere is implausible to me. That is 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:58.520 a really really bad fact for the state, which again 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:03.559 should have been absolutely highlighted by the defense in this case. 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:07.800 And speaking of blood, there's something else. Beverly's friends claim 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:10.360 she was triggered by the side of it. My name 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:13.360 is Katie, and your relationship to Julie. 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:14.360 I would consider her best friend. 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:16.679 How long have you known Julie? And how did you 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:18.160 guys first meet school? 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:22.240 About second or third grade. She was very squeamish. She 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:25.600 didn't like blood. She didn't like violence, so I never 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:27.600 and I never saw her around it. I mean, her 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:31.040 brother's rustled around and we messed with her sometimes, but 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:33.920 I never saw her in violent situation. She just tried 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:34.480 to avoid it. 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:36.679 Wouldn't you say that she didn't like blood? 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:41.120 Are there any specific examples that you remember. 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:44.720 Just like movies like Nasty Story movies and stuff like that. 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:46.439 She was just not into it. 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:50.120 Even if Beverly didn't have a history of avoiding blood 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:53.319 and gore, her gender also places her as somewhat of 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:57.600 an anomaly in terms of stabbing murder. According to this man. 0:11:58.080 --> 0:11:59.840 Name is Arthur Larigio. 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:06.559 I am a professor of criminology and of psychology at 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:08.479 Laola University of Chicago. 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:15.000 Stabbing murderers if you use the term murderer, you're going 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:18.840 to be talking about a man nine out of ten times, 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:20.800 at least in the United States. 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:22.440 The agent of the. 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:28.240 Socioeconomic background can vary, but it's usually a younger rather 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:33.280 than older man, and socioeconomic background is usually at the 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:37.120 lower end of the continuum rather than the higher end 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:42.680 of the continuum. If the person who is the perpetrator 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:47.840 of a stabbing is successful in killing the person, there's 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:52.240 likely to have been some forerunners. That's not going to 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:57.240 be the only incident in which there's been a perpetration 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:03.320 of violence. Mental illness is usually not a factor in 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:06.559 stabbings or any other kinds of killings. 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:10.680 Usually as at doesn't mean that it's not. It's just 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:13.400 as in as common as people imagine that it is. 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:19.800 Stabbing offenders typically have prior violent criminal histories. I think 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:23.400 that they probably have some prior acts of violence in 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:25.320 their record, but that's. 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:26.240 Not always the case. 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:32.880 Alcohol and drugs absolutely influence the likelihood of a stabbing. 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:37.600 Attack in terms of the demographic patterns among stabbing murderers. 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:41.840 In terms of gender, particularly, what do you attribute that 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:45.760 nine out of ten likelihood of it being male? 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:46.000 Too? 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:52.640 Part of it is the biological nature of being male, 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:57.920 as well as the manner in which none are socialized 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:03.679 from boyhood on. There's less restrictions placed on their engagement 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:09.240 of violent behavior. Violent and aggressive behavior is sometimes rewarded 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:14.160 or is sometimes not discipline in the way it might 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:19.640 be in a girl. And so it's a combination. There's 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:24.560 a strong biological component to violence, and it has to 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:30.040 do with the presence of testosteron. There's violence that's instrumental, 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:37.120 that's conducted to accomplish a goal, that would be premeditated violence, 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:42.680 and then there's a motive violence that comes about with 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:48.480 an increasing escalation, and many times the mode of violence 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:54.920 involves drugs or alcohol. More alcohol than drugs. There aren't 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:57.840 many drugs that cause people to become violent in the 0:14:57.840 --> 0:14:59.000 way that alcohol does. 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.840 It's interesting because in this case there is a belief 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:05.200 that meth could have played a role. 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:12.000 Oh sure is a drug that also is related to violence. 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:15.360 Not would be a drug that I would not at 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:18.240 all be surprised to hear played a role. 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:30.880 Murder on Songbird Road will continue after the break. Now 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:35.440 back to Murder on Songbird Road. Going back to the trial, 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:39.600 we want to address a misconception that many people following 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.880 the case at the time, even people who attended the 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:47.440 trial had or continue to have regarding what was actually 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:51.600 found at Hucks as opposed to the Southern Illinois Regional Landfill. 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:56.680 And it likely involves this exchange from trial between the 0:15:56.760 --> 0:16:01.600 prosecution and Lee Stewart, a special agent to the Illinois 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:06.440 State Police, which we'll read verbatim, what was the reason 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:10.720 you were wanting to excavate a portion of that landfill? 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:15.040 Investigators use phone records through Miss Beverly's Verizon cell phone 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:18.920 and combined that data with various surveillance video footage to 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:22.200 see that a vehicle matching the description of her. 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:24.400 Vehicle drove to a Howks and Marion. 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:27.680 When the vehicle pulled up into the Howks parking lot, 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:30.520 it pulled up next to a pump, and the driver 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:33.120 of the vehicle pulled out an object out of the 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:36.160 vehicle and put it into a trash can at. 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:36.640 The gas station. 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:41.600 Okay, so you were searching for trash. 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:45.680 We were searching for trash. They could be involved in 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:46.880 the commission of this crime. 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:53.480 As the testimony continues, note how the word trash morphs 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:56.120 to also cover not just what was discarded at Hugs, 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:59.920 but what was excavated at the landfill? 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:00.520 Okay? 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:06.120 So were there any items of evidence collected through the trash? 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:07.080 Yes? 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:10.880 What were they? 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:11.080 So? 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:16.640 There were two broken knife blades, one with serration on 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:22.480 one side and one with serration on both sides, and 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:24.840 then a curtain, a multi colored curtain. 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:25.920 Okay. 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:31.200 And these items were as you previously testified too, Were 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:36.800 they compacted with medical waste and contaminated soil like the 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:41.879 process that you previously testified to, yes, all right, Looking 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:46.199 at people's exhibit three sixty five, is that the curtain 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:47.000 you described? 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:48.359 Yes? 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:51.480 And three sixty six? What is that? 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:55.080 It's a knife blade with some serration. 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:58.760 And three sixty seven the other one. 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:01.320 Is a knife blade with serration on the bottom side there. 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:06.879 Okay, those items would have been collected and turned over 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:09.520 to the investigating agency, is that correct? 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:10.280 Yes? 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:16.399 And in the photographs of the knives, I notice some 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:21.000 well did you notice anything in the photograph of the 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:23.000 knives on the knife blades? 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:30.160 Some discoloration in this area here down here on that 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:31.920 one and it's broken off. 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:37.160 They also have some soil on them, yes, right there? 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:41.760 Nothing further, you're honor all right? What do you make 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:44.040 of that? Exchange. 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:45.320 It's ridiculous. 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:48.199 It's the thing that upsets me the most about this 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:52.640 entire trial that any of this evidence was admissible in 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:55.880 any way, shape or form to allow them to bring 0:18:55.960 --> 0:19:00.919 it in under the guys that well, look, we're not 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:02.960 going to allow them to say that it's the murder 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:06.040 weapon or that the curtain is from the house. But 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:10.439 they did all this work, they had twenty people out. 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:11.359 There for hours. 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:14.560 That concept that they allowed that to come in to 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:18.239 this trial and the impact that that had on the 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:22.600 jury is to me going to be one of the 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:27.679 major factors in the appeals. I will not be surprised 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:30.240 if this is one of the reasons that this case 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:34.760 gets overturned, that the conviction gets overturned and it's remanded. 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:37.280 It is that big of a deal that. 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:41.480 They allowed these knives to come in that had nothing 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:47.080 to do with this crime, this shower curtain which was 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:50.760 not from that home, which like, what is the implication 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:51.760 from it, Well. 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:54.960 There's also a very slippery transference of the use of 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:55.840 the word trash. 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:57.679 Yeah, that's how they did it. 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:01.280 So in terms of kind of the fiering aspect of it, 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:07.159 when you're putting together that particular cross examination in conjunction 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:14.080 with what Mudge had described it happened. They're combining the 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:18.119 thought of what trash is from trash that's being thrown 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:21.200 in a garbage can, that it's the same thing as 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:25.360 trash that was pulled from a landfill. It's slick loyering 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:28.040 to make it sound like they're one in the same 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:33.880 to that jury is what's so scary and disingenuous. 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.879 What's also interesting is there was this disconnect. We couldn't 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:41.720 figure out why so many people thought that these things 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:46.560 were found at the trash from Hucks. That's why, because 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:49.040 you could have been sitting in the same room. And 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:54.240 it's just clever wording. It's wordplay, and it's deceptive. 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:55.040 It is. 0:20:55.720 --> 0:21:00.640 When we spoke to Brenda and Bailey, very very very 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:07.760 sincerely and authentically, there was a very real disconnect about 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:09.560 what was found at hops. 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.160 How could there not be having. 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:14.880 Seen the video, you and I were waiting to see 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:17.440 the cargo out of frame and circle back to where 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:19.200 there's some other dumpster. 0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:21.520 Right, there was no dumpster involved. 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:26.040 They thought in their minds that they saw her go 0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:31.360 to a dumpster. That's how impactful that one little portion 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:35.919 of testimony was in terms of planting a seed that 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:41.880 did not exist. That concept of that's her disposing of 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:44.000 the murder weapon as well. 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:46.600 As the bloody clothes is huge. 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:49.800 It's huge evidence for them, and it was done in 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:53.640 a way that the judge made a horrific mistake allowing 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:56.639 that evidence to come in at all. And then it 0:21:56.680 --> 0:22:00.679 was compounded by the way that they used some word 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:03.880 salad trickery to get the jury to think that they 0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:06.840 were talking about something that they weren't, which is the 0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:14.080 garbage can. Again, I will be surprised if, in fact, 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:18.040 this case is remanded that that will not be one 0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:20.959 of the major factors that cause it, because that has 0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:26.280 a massive impact when you're kind of lacking any kind 0:22:26.320 --> 0:22:29.760 of other physical evidence in the case like this, there 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:35.480 just isn't really any physical evidence like that becomes smoking 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:36.760 gun type evidence. 0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:41.200 It's also interesting to note that Officer Sloan, the same 0:22:41.320 --> 0:22:44.879 officer who claimed on the stand to have questioned a 0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:48.280 woman walking a dog or looking for a dog in 0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:51.440 a black hoodie but didn't get her name or address 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:55.200 but knew she was a resident, also testified about observing 0:22:55.240 --> 0:22:58.800 a bitemark on Beverly's arm. Here's that testimony as it 0:22:58.840 --> 0:23:00.560 appears in the trial transcript. 0:23:02.080 --> 0:23:05.280 I was later called to transport her to the Williamson 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:06.840 County Sheriff's office. 0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:07.879 And did you do that? 0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:08.920 Yes? 0:23:09.000 --> 0:23:09.399 I did. 0:23:09.840 --> 0:23:13.160 Did you ask her any questions along the way, No, 0:23:13.440 --> 0:23:13.800 I did not. 0:23:14.680 --> 0:23:17.840 Did she say anything to you along the way. 0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:24.040 She didn't make any statements. I believe she inquired of 0:23:24.119 --> 0:23:25.120 Jade's status at. 0:23:25.080 --> 0:23:28.439 One point when you were transporting her. Did you notice 0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:29.920 any wounds to her? 0:23:30.760 --> 0:23:31.160 I did. 0:23:31.680 --> 0:23:34.320 I noticed a bite mark on her forearm. 0:23:35.080 --> 0:23:39.320 And here's the cross examination by the defense. When you 0:23:39.480 --> 0:23:44.359 came back to drive Julie up to the sheriff's department, she. 0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:46.000 Went voluntarily correct. 0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:50.480 Yes, she wasn't handcuffed or anything like that. 0:23:51.240 --> 0:23:52.280 No, I don't believe so. 0:23:53.119 --> 0:23:57.520 But she was wearing a large black sweatshirt at that point. 0:23:57.680 --> 0:23:59.920 I do not recall what she was wearing. 0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:06.720 You don't recall No, did she have the blanket on her? 0:24:07.880 --> 0:24:11.120 I believe she left the blanket there. 0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:14.440 But you don't know if she was wearing a full 0:24:14.520 --> 0:24:16.879 long sleeve sweatshirt at that point. 0:24:17.520 --> 0:24:19.240 I do not recall what she was wearing. 0:24:21.640 --> 0:24:23.560 All right, what are your thoughts on that? 0:24:25.760 --> 0:24:28.000 You know it's selective memory. 0:24:28.240 --> 0:24:28.480