1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:05,479 Speaker 1: Murder on Songbird Road is a production of iHeart Podcasts. 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: Previously on Murder on Songbird Road. The trial transcripts and 3 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: Julia Beverly's interrogation video provided incredible insights into the prosecution's 4 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: case against Beverly. 5 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 2: Always who I've left shirts you there for? 6 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 3: I should have just take her with. 7 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 4: That speaks to her innocence. It does. 8 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: Beverly voluntarily agreed to be questioned without an attorney. She 9 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: also consented to the collection of her DNA. 10 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 5: There was a lot of red flags. 11 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 2: Let me say that if I was training here, I 12 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 2: would have stopped him and said, you need to change 13 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 2: your gloves. 14 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 4: They're not going to test everything. They're just not. 15 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 6: But all the critical things, which had they been brought 16 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 6: up on cross examination, would have absolutely laid waste to 17 00:00:59,280 --> 00:00:59,959 Speaker 6: the state's case. 18 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: None of Jade Beasley's electronic devices were forensically tested none. 19 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 6: Why that they didn't even look at any of those 20 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 6: devices to find out if Jade was active in order 21 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 6: to build a timeline, a real timeline is unbelievable to me. 22 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: I'm Lauren brad Pacheco, and this is Murder on Songbird Road. 23 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: As I began writing this episode, I received an email 24 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: from the Investigation Secretary of the Williamson County Sheriff's Office 25 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: approving my request for survey aolence footage from Huck's gas station. 26 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: The video showed Beverly driving up, depositing something in one 27 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,799 Speaker 1: of the waste containers, and then leaving. After watching it, 28 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: Bob and I compared our thoughts. 29 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 6: The thing that concerned me the most is did she 30 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 6: drive around to the back to go to a dumpster? 31 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 6: Because we had started hearing rumblings that she had gone 32 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 6: to the. 33 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 4: Back either first or last. 34 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 6: And that she had dumped things in that dumpster as 35 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,239 Speaker 6: well as this this small receptacle that is in between 36 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 6: the pumps. So that concern in terms of if I'm 37 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 6: thinking Julie is not guilty of this crime, that concern 38 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 6: has been obliterated. She clearly did not go to any dumpster. 39 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 6: What we were told that she did is exactly what 40 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 6: it appears that she's doing, which is she pulled up 41 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 6: to that receptacle in between the two pumps like you 42 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 6: see it. Ninety nine point nine percent of all gas 43 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 6: stations she's in there for I don't know, fifteen twenty 44 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 6: seconds gathering whatever garbage is in the car, and then 45 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 6: you see her step out. 46 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 1: And then you have Mudge giving her hypothesis of what 47 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: Beverly was throwing away. From the trial transcript, here's Special 48 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: Prosecutor Jennifer Mudge hypothesizing what Julie Beverly was discarding at Hucks. 49 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: Quote there goes the knife, there goes the real shoes 50 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: she was wearing. 51 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 4: Unquote. 52 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: Keep in mind the prosecution also bundled into their speculation 53 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: of what that small plastic bag contained a shower curtain 54 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: and utensils recovered at the dump, none of which could 55 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: be traced back to Hucks, let alone the murder scene 56 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: back to Bob. 57 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 6: In theory, we're talking about clothes that would more likely 58 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 6: than not be absolutely saturated in blood, and the bag 59 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 6: would be heavy theoretically, if you're talking about one of 60 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 6: those small plastic grocery bags, I mean, aren't you worrying 61 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:05,279 Speaker 6: about like blood dripping out onto like you're leaving traces 62 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 6: of blood droplets on the ground or smearing it on 63 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 6: the they like when you watch the video, it looks 64 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 6: like somebody who's pulled up to a receptacle and a 65 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 6: gas station that's throwing some shit out of their car. 66 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: In that video, you see Beverly pull up between gas pumps, 67 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: pause for a second as she appears to partially prop 68 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: the passenger door open while rummaging about before stepping out 69 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: and tossing a loosely gathered bag in her right hand. 70 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: With that one hand. Beverly then gets back in and 71 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: drives off in the same direction she came from. 72 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 4: And nothing more like. She doesn't get out and look around. 73 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 6: She's not having to re you know, reconfigure the bag 74 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 6: in her hand. 75 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 4: There's no pushing it into the can. 76 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 6: It looks to me like she's got it in one 77 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 6: hand and she just drops it. There's no Oh, should 78 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 6: I maybe put some other garbage on top of this 79 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 6: garbage so that the next person doesn't see a bag 80 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 6: of bloody cloth, none of that extent. 81 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 5: It doesn't even look like it's fastn't it doesn't. 82 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 6: It looks like it's the other handle because those typically 83 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 6: those plastic bags. 84 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:12,799 Speaker 1: Have too Again, remember what the prosecution contends was inside 85 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: that bag. It's the clothing she was wearing, the shoes 86 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: that she was. 87 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 5: Wearing, and the murder weapon. 88 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: And then you go to what they retrieved at the dump, 89 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: and they inferred was tossed as well, which would have 90 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: been the shower curtain. Bob and I have discussed how 91 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: the defense could have but did not push back. I 92 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: would have had all of those things and ask someone 93 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 1: to put them into a comparable sized plastic bag so 94 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: people could get the idea of what it would look 95 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: like to have shoes, clothing, towels, murder weapon, shower curtain. 96 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 5: If they could even fit it. I'll go step further. 97 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: I would have tried to pack a bag that size 98 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: with all of those things, and I would have shown 99 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: that it probably wouldn't have fit in that eighteen inch opening. 100 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 4: Yeah, not without pushing it in. 101 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: No, bring a comparable sized garbage can into the courtroom 102 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: and have somebody do it with one hand. 103 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 5: You wouldn't have been able to just toss it. 104 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 7: Right. 105 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 6: She's dropping it in. Yeah, she literally just kind of 106 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 6: leans over and just drops it in. Everything that you 107 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 6: would think about what would be going through a normal 108 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 6: person's mind if that is what they're disposing you do 109 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 6: not see in this video. Imagine that you are driving 110 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 6: up to a gas station and you are disposing of 111 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 6: bloody clothes that link you to. 112 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 4: A murder that just occurred, that you. 113 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: Committed spoiler alert, I wouldn't have done it at a 114 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: gas station with cameras everywhere. 115 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 4: There's not a chance. 116 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 6: There's not a chance in terms of a trial, the 117 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 6: fact that there was no resistance. Not only am I 118 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 6: testing the theory out that it's impossible to shove that 119 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 6: much stuff. 120 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 4: And you have to take into consideration. 121 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 6: Bloody towels or rags that were used to also clean up. 122 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 6: You can see what you're throwing out and where you're 123 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 6: doing it, and there's no way that that is a 124 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 6: bag of bloody clothes a murder weapon and shoes and. 125 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 4: Rags or whatever you use into shower. 126 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 6: Like, does that mean that she didn't do it? Not 127 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 6: necessarily in and of itself. Does it mean that I 128 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 6: don't think there's any way in hell that that's what 129 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 6: she was disposing of? There absolutely one, Like I would 130 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 6: die on that hill. 131 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: Special Prosecutor Mudge also contradicted the claim Beverly was wearing 132 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: flip flops. Quote so she tells police she had on 133 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: flip flops. It's December, she just went to Walmart flip flops, No, 134 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: and that they fell off her feet while she is 135 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: walking or pacing around the kitchen. Have you ever paste 136 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: around your own kitchen and your flip flops just fell 137 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: off of you. 138 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:23,679 Speaker 6: I can't tell what kind of foot where she's wearing. 139 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 6: Does it look like she's wearing the flip flops to you? 140 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, because it doesn't look like she's wearing shoes. You 141 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: can see the color of her arms, and she looks 142 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: like she's wearing cropped leggings, so you can see that 143 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: it doesn't appear that she's wearing shoes, which is right 144 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: in keeping with what a flip flop would look like 145 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: on a foot. Keep in mind that Special Prosecutor Mudge 146 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: scoffs at the thought that she would have been wearing 147 00:08:53,960 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: flip flops to Walmart. But it's interesting if you groll 148 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: the footage before Beverly even pulls up multiple people, there's 149 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: a guy who gets out and he's wearing a cutoff 150 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: like T shirt with the sleeves completely removed. It's December, 151 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: but it was unseasonably warm. I also think that if 152 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 1: you had just murdered someone, and you know, remember the 153 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: prosecution contends this was after the murder, she would have 154 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: been covered with bloody scratches and bleeding hands. 155 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 5: Why would she. 156 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: Have been out and about in a T shirt, and 157 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: so again we have the magically clean then bleeding again hands. 158 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: So her hands were bloodied, the prosecution contends when she 159 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 1: was murdering Jade, then meticulously and miraculously they are cleansed 160 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: because she goes back to the office and types without 161 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 1: any blood anywhere for another fifty one minutes. 162 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 5: Then she further cleans. 163 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: Up and goes to hawks to dispose of everything comes 164 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: back in her hands are bloody again. 165 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 4: It's a magic bullet theory. I mean, it doesn't add 166 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 4: up to me. 167 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 6: The whole time frame of the state just never made 168 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 6: any sense. And the main reason is for what you 169 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 6: pointed out, which is that the fact that she got 170 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 6: back on the computer and worked for damn near an 171 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 6: hour which requires. 172 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 4: Her to type. 173 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 6: She's not on a mouse just clicking, she's having to 174 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 6: draft emails. 175 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 4: She's using the keyboard. 176 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 6: And if you've got an active bleeding wound on your hand, 177 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 6: the concept that there's not one iota, not one speck 178 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 6: of blood anywhere in that office, anywhere, on that keyboard, anywhere, 179 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 6: on that desk nowhere is implausible to me. That is 180 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 6: a really really bad fact for the state, which again 181 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:03,559 Speaker 6: should have been absolutely highlighted by the defense in this case. 182 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: And speaking of blood, there's something else. Beverly's friends claim 183 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: she was triggered by the side of it. My name 184 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: is Katie, and your relationship to Julie. 185 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 8: I would consider her best friend. 186 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 1: How long have you known Julie? And how did you 187 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: guys first meet school? 188 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 8: About second or third grade. She was very squeamish. She 189 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 8: didn't like blood. She didn't like violence, so I never 190 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 8: and I never saw her around it. I mean, her 191 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 8: brother's rustled around and we messed with her sometimes, but 192 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 8: I never saw her in violent situation. She just tried 193 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 8: to avoid it. 194 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:36,679 Speaker 5: Wouldn't you say that she didn't like blood? 195 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: Are there any specific examples that you remember. 196 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 8: Just like movies like Nasty Story movies and stuff like that. 197 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:46,439 Speaker 8: She was just not into it. 198 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: Even if Beverly didn't have a history of avoiding blood 199 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 1: and gore, her gender also places her as somewhat of 200 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: an anomaly in terms of stabbing murder. According to this man. 201 00:11:58,080 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 7: Name is Arthur Larigio. 202 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:06,559 Speaker 9: I am a professor of criminology and of psychology at 203 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:08,479 Speaker 9: Laola University of Chicago. 204 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 3: Stabbing murderers if you use the term murderer, you're going 205 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 3: to be talking about a man nine out of ten times, 206 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 3: at least in the United States. 207 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 5: The agent of the. 208 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 9: Socioeconomic background can vary, but it's usually a younger rather 209 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 9: than older man, and socioeconomic background is usually at the 210 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 9: lower end of the continuum rather than the higher end 211 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 9: of the continuum. If the person who is the perpetrator 212 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 9: of a stabbing is successful in killing the person, there's 213 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 9: likely to have been some forerunners. That's not going to 214 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 9: be the only incident in which there's been a perpetration 215 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 9: of violence. Mental illness is usually not a factor in 216 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,559 Speaker 9: stabbings or any other kinds of killings. 217 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 10: Usually as at doesn't mean that it's not. It's just 218 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 10: as in as common as people imagine that it is. 219 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 10: Stabbing offenders typically have prior violent criminal histories. I think 220 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 10: that they probably have some prior acts of violence in 221 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 10: their record, but that's. 222 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 4: Not always the case. 223 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 9: Alcohol and drugs absolutely influence the likelihood of a stabbing. 224 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: Attack in terms of the demographic patterns among stabbing murderers. 225 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: In terms of gender, particularly, what do you attribute that 226 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: nine out of ten likelihood of it being male? 227 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 7: Too? 228 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 9: Part of it is the biological nature of being male, 229 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 9: as well as the manner in which none are socialized 230 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 9: from boyhood on. There's less restrictions placed on their engagement 231 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 9: of violent behavior. Violent and aggressive behavior is sometimes rewarded 232 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 9: or is sometimes not discipline in the way it might 233 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 9: be in a girl. And so it's a combination. There's 234 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 9: a strong biological component to violence, and it has to 235 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 9: do with the presence of testosteron. There's violence that's instrumental, 236 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 9: that's conducted to accomplish a goal, that would be premeditated violence, 237 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 9: and then there's a motive violence that comes about with 238 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 9: an increasing escalation, and many times the mode of violence 239 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 9: involves drugs or alcohol. More alcohol than drugs. There aren't 240 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 9: many drugs that cause people to become violent in the 241 00:14:57,840 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 9: way that alcohol does. 242 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: It's interesting because in this case there is a belief 243 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: that meth could have played a role. 244 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 9: Oh sure is a drug that also is related to violence. 245 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 9: Not would be a drug that I would not at 246 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 9: all be surprised to hear played a role. 247 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: Murder on Songbird Road will continue after the break. Now 248 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: back to Murder on Songbird Road. Going back to the trial, 249 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: we want to address a misconception that many people following 250 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: the case at the time, even people who attended the 251 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: trial had or continue to have regarding what was actually 252 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: found at Hucks as opposed to the Southern Illinois Regional Landfill. 253 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: And it likely involves this exchange from trial between the 254 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: prosecution and Lee Stewart, a special agent to the Illinois 255 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: State Police, which we'll read verbatim, what was the reason 256 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: you were wanting to excavate a portion of that landfill? 257 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 6: Investigators use phone records through Miss Beverly's Verizon cell phone 258 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 6: and combined that data with various surveillance video footage to 259 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 6: see that a vehicle matching the description of her. 260 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 4: Vehicle drove to a Howks and Marion. 261 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 6: When the vehicle pulled up into the Howks parking lot, 262 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 6: it pulled up next to a pump, and the driver 263 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 6: of the vehicle pulled out an object out of the 264 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 6: vehicle and put it into a trash can at. 265 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 7: The gas station. 266 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: Okay, so you were searching for trash. 267 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 4: We were searching for trash. They could be involved in 268 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 4: the commission of this crime. 269 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: As the testimony continues, note how the word trash morphs 270 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: to also cover not just what was discarded at Hugs, 271 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: but what was excavated at the landfill? 272 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 5: Okay? 273 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:06,120 Speaker 1: So were there any items of evidence collected through the trash? 274 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 4: Yes? 275 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:10,880 Speaker 5: What were they? 276 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 7: So? 277 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:16,640 Speaker 6: There were two broken knife blades, one with serration on 278 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 6: one side and one with serration on both sides, and 279 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 6: then a curtain, a multi colored curtain. 280 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 5: Okay. 281 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: And these items were as you previously testified too, Were 282 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: they compacted with medical waste and contaminated soil like the 283 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: process that you previously testified to, yes, all right, Looking 284 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:46,199 Speaker 1: at people's exhibit three sixty five, is that the curtain 285 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: you described? 286 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 7: Yes? 287 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 5: And three sixty six? What is that? 288 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 4: It's a knife blade with some serration. 289 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: And three sixty seven the other one. 290 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 6: Is a knife blade with serration on the bottom side there. 291 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 1: Okay, those items would have been collected and turned over 292 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: to the investigating agency, is that correct? 293 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 7: Yes? 294 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: And in the photographs of the knives, I notice some 295 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: well did you notice anything in the photograph of the 296 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: knives on the knife blades? 297 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 6: Some discoloration in this area here down here on that 298 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 6: one and it's broken off. 299 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 1: They also have some soil on them, yes, right there? 300 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: Nothing further, you're honor all right? What do you make 301 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: of that? Exchange. 302 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 4: It's ridiculous. 303 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,199 Speaker 6: It's the thing that upsets me the most about this 304 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 6: entire trial that any of this evidence was admissible in 305 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,880 Speaker 6: any way, shape or form to allow them to bring 306 00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 6: it in under the guys that well, look, we're not 307 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 6: going to allow them to say that it's the murder 308 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 6: weapon or that the curtain is from the house. But 309 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 6: they did all this work, they had twenty people out. 310 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 4: There for hours. 311 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 6: That concept that they allowed that to come in to 312 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,239 Speaker 6: this trial and the impact that that had on the 313 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 6: jury is to me going to be one of the 314 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:27,679 Speaker 6: major factors in the appeals. I will not be surprised 315 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 6: if this is one of the reasons that this case 316 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 6: gets overturned, that the conviction gets overturned and it's remanded. 317 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 4: It is that big of a deal that. 318 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 6: They allowed these knives to come in that had nothing 319 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 6: to do with this crime, this shower curtain which was 320 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 6: not from that home, which like, what is the implication 321 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 6: from it, Well. 322 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 1: There's also a very slippery transference of the use of 323 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: the word trash. 324 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's how they did it. 325 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 6: So in terms of kind of the fiering aspect of it, 326 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 6: when you're putting together that particular cross examination in conjunction 327 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 6: with what Mudge had described it happened. They're combining the 328 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 6: thought of what trash is from trash that's being thrown 329 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 6: in a garbage can, that it's the same thing as 330 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:25,360 Speaker 6: trash that was pulled from a landfill. It's slick loyering 331 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 6: to make it sound like they're one in the same 332 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:33,880 Speaker 6: to that jury is what's so scary and disingenuous. 333 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 1: What's also interesting is there was this disconnect. We couldn't 334 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: figure out why so many people thought that these things 335 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: were found at the trash from Hucks. That's why, because 336 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: you could have been sitting in the same room. And 337 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: it's just clever wording. It's wordplay, and it's deceptive. 338 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 4: It is. 339 00:20:55,720 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 1: When we spoke to Brenda and Bailey, very very very 340 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: sincerely and authentically, there was a very real disconnect about 341 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: what was found at hops. 342 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,160 Speaker 4: How could there not be having. 343 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 1: Seen the video, you and I were waiting to see 344 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 1: the cargo out of frame and circle back to where 345 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: there's some other dumpster. 346 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 5: Right, there was no dumpster involved. 347 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 6: They thought in their minds that they saw her go 348 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:31,360 Speaker 6: to a dumpster. That's how impactful that one little portion 349 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 6: of testimony was in terms of planting a seed that 350 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 6: did not exist. That concept of that's her disposing of 351 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 6: the murder weapon as well. 352 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 4: As the bloody clothes is huge. 353 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 6: It's huge evidence for them, and it was done in 354 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,640 Speaker 6: a way that the judge made a horrific mistake allowing 355 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 6: that evidence to come in at all. And then it 356 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 6: was compounded by the way that they used some word 357 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,880 Speaker 6: salad trickery to get the jury to think that they 358 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 6: were talking about something that they weren't, which is the 359 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 6: garbage can. Again, I will be surprised if, in fact, 360 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 6: this case is remanded that that will not be one 361 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,959 Speaker 6: of the major factors that cause it, because that has 362 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 6: a massive impact when you're kind of lacking any kind 363 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 6: of other physical evidence in the case like this, there 364 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 6: just isn't really any physical evidence like that becomes smoking 365 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 6: gun type evidence. 366 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 1: It's also interesting to note that Officer Sloan, the same 367 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: officer who claimed on the stand to have questioned a 368 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: woman walking a dog or looking for a dog in 369 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: a black hoodie but didn't get her name or address 370 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,200 Speaker 1: but knew she was a resident, also testified about observing 371 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: a bitemark on Beverly's arm. Here's that testimony as it 372 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: appears in the trial transcript. 373 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 6: I was later called to transport her to the Williamson 374 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 6: County Sheriff's office. 375 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:07,879 Speaker 5: And did you do that? 376 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 7: Yes? 377 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 4: I did. 378 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 1: Did you ask her any questions along the way, No, 379 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: I did not. 380 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 5: Did she say anything to you along the way. 381 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 6: She didn't make any statements. I believe she inquired of 382 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:25,120 Speaker 6: Jade's status at. 383 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 1: One point when you were transporting her. Did you notice 384 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 1: any wounds to her? 385 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 9: I did. 386 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 4: I noticed a bite mark on her forearm. 387 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: And here's the cross examination by the defense. When you 388 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: came back to drive Julie up to the sheriff's department, she. 389 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 5: Went voluntarily correct. 390 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: Yes, she wasn't handcuffed or anything like that. 391 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 4: No, I don't believe so. 392 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: But she was wearing a large black sweatshirt at that point. 393 00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 4: I do not recall what she was wearing. 394 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: You don't recall No, did she have the blanket on her? 395 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 4: I believe she left the blanket there. 396 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 1: But you don't know if she was wearing a full 397 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 1: long sleeve sweatshirt at that point. 398 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 4: I do not recall what she was wearing. 399 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 5: All right, what are your thoughts on that? 400 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 4: You know it's selective memory. 401 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 7: Right. 402 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 6: So the thing that Thiene's getting at is that you 403 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,199 Speaker 6: can't tell me what she was wearing, but I have 404 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 6: it on good authority she was wearing a long sleeve 405 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 6: black sweatshirt, which means that you wouldn't be able to 406 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,959 Speaker 6: see her forearm. And again, like, this is the same 407 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 6: cop that we're dealing with that dealt with that either 408 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 6: critical or not critical person dressed in black walking the dog. 409 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 6: And this is like a low key, really big point 410 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 6: because either this guy's completely fabricating what he saw while 411 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 6: he's driving, or he's got a really bad memory. We 412 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 6: know that she was wearing a pullover hoodie, So the 413 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 6: question then becomes, how is this guy noticing a mark 414 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 6: on her arm? 415 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 4: Does he have X ray vision? See Superman? 416 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 1: And there's another interesting cop connected testimony. The neighbor who 417 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: happened to supply the second video reference to car footage 418 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 1: used in the building of the prosecution's timeline also happened 419 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: to know one of the responding officers, one who happened 420 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: to stop by his house on the way to responding 421 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: to the nine one one call. Here's that neighbor's testimony. 422 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 6: I actually went to the correctional academy with officer Ward 423 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 6: from the mary And. 424 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 4: Police Department, and that's who it was. So he stopped 425 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 4: and he. 426 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 6: Told me that they too were looking injection for a 427 00:25:58,119 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 6: male suspect. 428 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: Here's no I withdraw that, and here's how the exchange continues. Okay, 429 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 1: after that, were you made aware that the police were 430 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: no longer looking for a male in black? 431 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 6: Yes, my wife, she's my ex wife now, but my 432 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 6: wife at the time she worked for the Marriyan Police Department. 433 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,880 Speaker 1: I already find it suspect that the second camera footage 434 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 1: comes from somebody who went to the academy with one 435 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 1: of the officers and his wife works for the Marriyan 436 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: Police Department. 437 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 5: That's just too convenient that. 438 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 1: Then that's a pretty cozy It's also pretty convenient that 439 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: the footage obtained from the home was deemed to be 440 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,199 Speaker 1: forty four minutes off so as to sync with the 441 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: also off time of the Hucks footage and sell tower pings. 442 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: But none of that was challenged. We'll be right back 443 00:26:55,119 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: with Murder on Songbird Road. Here again is Murder on 444 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: Songbird Road. Do you have any thoughts that you just 445 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: want to add about Leah being removed from the courtroom 446 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,160 Speaker 1: because she made jurors uncomfortable. 447 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 4: It's really really problematic. 448 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 1: As alluded to in our last episode, one of Beverly's 449 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: close friends, Leah, who had traveled to support her during trial, 450 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: was asked to leave the courtroom because members of the 451 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,160 Speaker 1: jury found her problematic. 452 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 11: Do I look threatening to you? I was removed from 453 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,439 Speaker 11: the courtroom because I was threatening the jury by sitting 454 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 11: in the front row. 455 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 5: What were you doing? 456 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 11: She was sitting looking I was behind her, I was 457 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 11: looking around. I was the darkest person in that courtroom 458 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,919 Speaker 11: or her trial. And they did everything they could do 459 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 11: to get me out of that courtroom expeditiously, including asking 460 00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 11: Julie to ask me to leave, which they did. 461 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:02,680 Speaker 9: They allowed Julie to walk over to her. 462 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 11: And because Julie asked me to leave, I stepped out. 463 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:07,479 Speaker 11: They were worried that they were going to have a 464 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 11: mistrial because I was intimidating the jury. 465 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 5: That's what by sitting there, thing said that the jury members. 466 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 11: The all white jury, they were intimidated because I'm black, 467 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 11: the all white jury. 468 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 5: They had called the bailiff over and so we took 469 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,399 Speaker 5: a recess. And during the recess, so I. 470 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 11: Said I was taking pictures of their vehicles, and they 471 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 11: were worried that I was going to follow them home 472 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,640 Speaker 11: and or have I took pictures of their license plates. 473 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 11: And then I was sitting there downs that I was 474 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 11: staring them down and giving dirty looks. I'm not in 475 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 11: there smiling. It was Julie's trial. I was distraught. But 476 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 11: they said that I was a threat, that I was 477 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 11: threatening the jury. How many out of. 478 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 5: Twelve said that I was a threat? I think four. 479 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 11: Four out of the twelve jury members had a problem 480 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 11: with me, specifically just sitting there for the trial. 481 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 6: Back to Bob, this isn't a situation where she's out 482 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 6: of order. She's not screaming, yelling, saying, and she's merely 483 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 6: looking at the jury trying to figure out the same 484 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 6: way that I am every time I'm sitting in there, 485 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 6: are they buying this? Are my points hitting home? She's 486 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 6: allowed to look and observe at anything that she wants 487 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 6: to this whole concept of staring, staring into someone's soul. 488 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 4: From out in the gallery. But like the reality Lauren 489 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 4: is is that is how the jur that we spoke 490 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 4: to felt. 491 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: We have indeed spoken to a juror whose anonymity we 492 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: will protect. They shared their side of the Leah situation. 493 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 1: Here's the jur It. 494 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 12: Was when we were leaving at the end of the 495 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 12: day one day, but there was somebody sitting in a 496 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 12: car with a big Justice for Julie's sticker on it 497 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 12: that was taking videos or pictures of must walking out. 498 00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 7: At least that's what it looked like. It was a 499 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 7: I mean, it was a black Ford car. 500 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 12: So for us, it was scary, you know, like you 501 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 12: hear stuff sometimes on TV, like people following jurors homely 502 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 12: killing the whole family type stuff, and you don't know 503 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 12: what anybody's like. Did we necessarily think that? I don't 504 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 12: know what anybody else. 505 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 7: Thought, But I don't know why I was scared. 506 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: Without consulting the parties, the trial judge privately questioned four 507 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: jurors and chambers. Though unrelated during the process, concerns about 508 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 1: the black car and the jurors observations of Leah in 509 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: the courtroom appear to have merged into a single issue. 510 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 6: The bigger point about the whole Lea situation is that 511 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 6: it really does kind of illuminate the mindset that you're 512 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 6: dealing with down there. It's like Leah can't been the 513 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 6: only person who's looking at the jury. Recently, I went 514 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 6: and watched a trial from beginning to end. It was 515 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 6: three weeks long, and I spent an awful lot of 516 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,959 Speaker 6: time looking at the jury hard. I'm trying to figure 517 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 6: like they're the only people that they're the only people 518 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 6: that matter in that courtroom. They are the twelve people 519 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 6: that are sitting there deciding somebody's fate. I'm I'm watching them. 520 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 6: Are they paying attention? Are they making faces? How are 521 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 6: they reacting to that evidence? 522 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 4: It's just what you do. 523 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,719 Speaker 6: They are kind of mandatory viewing if you're sitting in 524 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 6: on a trial, like you watch the jurors because they 525 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 6: are the beginning and the end of it all. 526 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 5: Yeah, the power rests with them. 527 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 6: The bigger question then becomes is what is going on 528 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 6: extemporaneously around them that's making them have this fear? What 529 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 6: else is going on that's making them feel like, man, 530 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 6: is my life in danger? 531 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 7: Here? 532 00:31:54,000 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: Beverly was asked to have Leah removed because it was 533 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: going to prejudice the jury against her. Ironically that it 534 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 1: was a reflection on Beverly that it was her friend 535 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 1: who was making the jurors uncomfortable, and when you go 536 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 1: back and you actually read that portion, they were originally 537 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 1: talking about a black car, not a black woman. Also 538 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: problematic our reports we've received about what the court clerk 539 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: allegedly sent back with the jury foreman as the jurors 540 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: went back to deliberate the verdict. 541 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 6: You and I have been trying to kind of nail 542 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 6: down the concept of what was sent back to the jurors. 543 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 6: To compound this even more, what they were sitting with 544 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 6: in that deliberation room, and we know that they're sitting 545 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 6: there with that box and knives back there, the knives 546 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 6: that have nothing to do with the crime. Wrap your 547 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 6: mind around that. 548 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 5: I cannot wrap. It's so judicial, and the fact. 549 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: That it is common practice that while deliberating, a jury 550 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: can ask for more things, for more clarification. But we 551 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 1: now have multiple sources confirming that the jury foreman was 552 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: handed by the court clerk a box that contained those 553 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: random utensils retrieved from the dump and autopsy photos as 554 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: they were heading into deliberation. Multiple people who were in 555 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: the courtroom have expressed they witnessed the box of evidence 556 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 1: being sent back with the jurors prior to deliberation. Here's 557 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: Renee High Tower. 558 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 13: I remember the box going to the foreman and they 559 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 13: were still in the jury box when it was given 560 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 13: to them, and they were sitting there. 561 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 5: For a moment, and then he carried it out as. 562 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: They left, and who handed it to the foreman the clerk. 563 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: So the court clerk handed the jury foreman a box 564 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: before they. 565 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 5: Went into deliberation. 566 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 4: Correct. 567 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 5: Did you know what was in the box at the time? 568 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,759 Speaker 13: I assumed it was evidence, but I couldn't see in it. 569 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 5: I could see things sticking out of it, but I 570 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 5: couldn't see in it. What were you told? It was 571 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 5: after the fact. 572 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 13: As they were taken out for deliberation, we were all 573 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 13: walking out, and that's when Beane told me. She said 574 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 13: she had never seen anything like it, that they gave 575 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 13: the jury the whole box of evidence. 576 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 1: This is Beverly's friend Katie's recollection. 577 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:41,840 Speaker 8: I do remember. 578 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 14: I think it was the bailiff, I'm not really for 579 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 14: sure who it was, somebody handing one of the men 580 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 14: in the jury something and he kind of just sat 581 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 14: there and looked at it with a dumbfounded look, and 582 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 14: then they got up to leave to go deliberate. I 583 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,360 Speaker 14: just remember him just loo looking at it, just downfounded, 584 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 14: like what am I supposed to? 585 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 7: What is this? 586 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 14: What am I supposed to do with it? 587 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,400 Speaker 1: And this is what we were told by an anonymous juror. 588 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 1: What do you remember about the jury being sent into 589 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: deliberation and what do you remember being sent back to 590 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 1: deliberate with in the room. 591 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:25,880 Speaker 7: A box of all the pictures? And then there was 592 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 7: k lives in a box. 593 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 5: When you say a box of all the pictures, what 594 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:30,880 Speaker 5: were the pictures. 595 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 7: Of Drew's autopsy photos? 596 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 5: How is that not prejudicial? 597 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 6: Well, it is when you're sending them back and pretending 598 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 6: as if they are the murder weapons. 599 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 4: It's unbelievable. 600 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 5: How is that allowed though? And what does that mean? 601 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:49,439 Speaker 9: Wait? 602 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 6: Are we trying to figure out how Judge Green was 603 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 6: operating here? 604 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 4: Like I can't crawl into that man's brain. 605 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,720 Speaker 1: I have formally requested an interview or statement from Judge 606 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: Green regarding the so called evidence sent back with the 607 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: jurors for deliberation and the removal of Leah from his courtroom. Additionally, 608 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: I have asked the judge to address any connection to 609 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,360 Speaker 1: the immediate removal of Julia Beverly's son while she was 610 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,959 Speaker 1: a pre trial detainee in Williamson County, as well as 611 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:22,319 Speaker 1: other potential conflicts of interests. This includes his affiliation with 612 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:26,240 Speaker 1: the same church attended by the Beasley family and allegations 613 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,840 Speaker 1: that he wore pink widely associated with the Justice for 614 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,879 Speaker 1: Jade movement on at least three of the six days 615 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:37,880 Speaker 1: of trial. Furthermore, despite denying having a social media presence 616 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: at Beverly sentencing, Green does indeed have a Facebook account 617 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 1: that shares mutual connections with the Beasley family. While I 618 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,239 Speaker 1: copied the Williamson County State's attorney on my request, it 619 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 1: is gone unanswered. 620 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 6: We looked at the transcripts of this trial. It's paper thint. 621 00:36:55,600 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 6: There is no actual evidence of guilt here. They just 622 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 6: never could prove that she was the person who actually 623 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 6: did it, other than by her own misstatements and lies. 624 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:13,120 Speaker 6: When you look at everything else in the totality of 625 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 6: the circumstances, you can see how shaky they thought their case. 626 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,520 Speaker 1: Was, something that is very much underscored by an exchange 627 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 1: from the end of Beverly's three hour interrogation the day 628 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: of the murder and how the prosecution had it edited 629 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:28,760 Speaker 1: for trial. 630 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 4: So do you think when Jade was getting stabbed. 631 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: Was it like this? 632 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 15: Was it kind of off to the side, because you. 633 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,319 Speaker 12: Know some people swing lower direction, some kind of go 634 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:40,960 Speaker 12: from the side somes over like this. 635 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 7: Which way do you think it was? 636 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:44,839 Speaker 9: For what I could see on her back? 637 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,440 Speaker 5: It definitely okay, it. 638 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:47,759 Speaker 1: Was definitely up and down like this. 639 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 15: Was it kind of real quick? Was it like go 640 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,319 Speaker 15: in kind of wiggle a little bit? I mean, which 641 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 15: way did you do it? 642 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 7: Okay, here's here's the thing. 643 00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:07,359 Speaker 15: Okay, we know you've been through a lot, you are. 644 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 9: There's some things that we're gonna. 645 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 15: Have to pull it out. Then help us through it. 646 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:22,719 Speaker 7: Okay, help us through it. 647 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:34,800 Speaker 15: Wish anymore. 648 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:44,680 Speaker 1: It's one thing to hear it, but I want listeners 649 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: to understand how difficult. 650 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:49,400 Speaker 5: It is to watch it. 651 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:58,240 Speaker 1: Is Meier is is really over gesticulating every single move 652 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: as he makes a stabbing. What's interesting to me about 653 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:08,399 Speaker 1: her reaction. You can see how she's trying to hold 654 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:13,359 Speaker 1: it together, honestly thinking she's being helpful, and in that 655 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:17,879 Speaker 1: moment where she realizes he shifts gears to how did 656 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 1: you do it? Not how did he do it? But 657 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:26,200 Speaker 1: how did you do it? And immediately she reacts with 658 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,799 Speaker 1: sincere shock and horror is what it sounds like. 659 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,600 Speaker 6: Well, she breaks she breaks down immediately. It really speaks 660 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 6: loudly to innocence. To me, that whole last minute that 661 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:44,319 Speaker 6: I watched was that's not somebody who did it. 662 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:49,200 Speaker 1: What I find so interesting about that exchange is what 663 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 1: they chose to cut out before it got to trial. 664 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:57,279 Speaker 1: The last line that they cut out is she may 665 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 1: not have been my blood, but she a daughter to me. 666 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:07,279 Speaker 1: The intention of cutting that out if you think the 667 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:11,400 Speaker 1: person is one hundred percent guilty, what are you trying 668 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:12,600 Speaker 1: to right? 669 00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,920 Speaker 4: What are you afraid of? Yeah? Why are they cutting 670 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:16,319 Speaker 4: that out? 671 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,160 Speaker 6: You know, it's like there there is no reasonable explanation 672 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 6: for it other than they're trying to have everything fit 673 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 6: into their narrative, and their narrative has to be that 674 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 6: Julia did not feel that way about Jane. 675 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:36,839 Speaker 4: And it's just not how it was. 676 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 1: Sentiments that made this next exchange, taped at the end 677 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,920 Speaker 1: of January twenty twenty four, even more impactful for everyone involved. 678 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 1: Without further ado, Renee High Tower, Jason Flomm. 679 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:53,319 Speaker 16: Hello, Renee, it looks like you're in your car and 680 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,279 Speaker 16: nice to meet you. Sorry for what you're going through 681 00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,759 Speaker 16: Your family. It's awful, but hopefully we can together we 682 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,240 Speaker 16: can fix it, at least make it better. 683 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,400 Speaker 5: So Renee's been up since before six. 684 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,759 Speaker 1: In the back seat you will see Julie's eldest son, 685 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:16,080 Speaker 1: Jaden Wave Jayden awesome. And next room is Jaden's cousin 686 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,200 Speaker 1: and they all made the three hour drive this morning 687 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,320 Speaker 1: at the break of dawn to visit Julie. 688 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 16: Oh, it's so nice, except for it's not. 689 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:33,680 Speaker 1: Because yeah, so Renee, I called Jason. Jason had had 690 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:38,720 Speaker 1: dinner several weeks ago with Kathleen Zelner, and I expressed 691 00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:40,920 Speaker 1: that you had reached out and that the firm had 692 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 1: responded saying that they were not taking any more pro 693 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:48,959 Speaker 1: bono cases this year a quick aside. Pro bono work 694 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,040 Speaker 1: is when lawyers provide free legal services to people who 695 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,080 Speaker 1: can't afford them. The term comes from the Latin phrase 696 00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:59,240 Speaker 1: pro bono publico, which means for the public good. Chicago 697 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,880 Speaker 1: based attorney Kathleen Zelner is one of the most formidable 698 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:08,239 Speaker 1: forces in wrongful conviction advocacy. Notable client Zelner has represented 699 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:14,319 Speaker 1: includes Stephen Avery, Kevin Fox, Ryan W. Ferguson, and nineteen Exoneries, 700 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:18,480 Speaker 1: who were listed in the National Registry of Exonerations. Renee 701 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,239 Speaker 1: had already reached out to someone in her office. 702 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,720 Speaker 2: I kind of gave a brief story of her case, 703 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 2: and he called me back and he said that unfortunately 704 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:33,000 Speaker 2: her pro bono has maxed out, but he gave me 705 00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 2: a flat fee of twenty thousand for the appeal alone, 706 00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 2: just the appeal, And he said that they did call 707 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,440 Speaker 2: the appellate court down here and they found out exactly 708 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,560 Speaker 2: where it's at, and that no public defender has been 709 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,319 Speaker 2: assigned just yet. So they're still waiting on all the 710 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:54,319 Speaker 2: transcripts to come in. And I believe she has like 711 00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,520 Speaker 2: twenty five and she's got nine of the twenty five 712 00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,520 Speaker 2: so far, and the most important one of the trial 713 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:01,080 Speaker 2: is not ready. 714 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:01,640 Speaker 5: A year later. 715 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:08,759 Speaker 16: Yeah, administrative, bureaucratic nonsense. But yeah, So I don't know 716 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:10,440 Speaker 16: what Lauren. 717 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:11,360 Speaker 7: I call her. 718 00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:13,399 Speaker 16: LBP told you or didn't tell you. 719 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:14,719 Speaker 7: So I spoke with Kathleen. 720 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,120 Speaker 16: I mean, twenty thousand dollars for Kathleen's owner is an 721 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,399 Speaker 16: incredible price, obviously, but not if you don't have twenty 722 00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,000 Speaker 16: thousand dollars obviously, then it doesn't matter. But I did 723 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:28,040 Speaker 16: talk to her. We've recently connected and we really hit 724 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:29,839 Speaker 16: it off. I don't know how we didn't know each 725 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,879 Speaker 16: other before, but she's a force of nature and she's 726 00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,160 Speaker 16: really interested in this case, which is great. I confirmed 727 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:36,640 Speaker 16: that when I spoke to her, so I told her, look, 728 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,000 Speaker 16: if it's twenty thousand dollars, I'll put the bill for that, 729 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,399 Speaker 16: because I think she If anyone can get Julie out, 730 00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:46,560 Speaker 16: it's her, and I think she can and she probably will. 731 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,120 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, I don't even know what to say. 732 00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:57,640 Speaker 16: No, I'm happy to do it. This is what we're 733 00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,960 Speaker 16: here for, and I'm lucky to have the access to 734 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,200 Speaker 16: those kind of funds, so I'm excited to get Sorry. 735 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:04,759 Speaker 16: I mean, if this would be the best deal of 736 00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:06,560 Speaker 16: the century, if this is what it is, and if 737 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,439 Speaker 16: it works, that'll be the best money ever spent. 738 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:10,040 Speaker 7: For real. 739 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,920 Speaker 2: I so appreciate it so much. Thank you so much, 740 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,759 Speaker 2: thank you so much, all of you. I can't even 741 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:18,080 Speaker 2: begin to say thank you enough. 742 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,280 Speaker 16: I swear I would take a little of the burden 743 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:21,240 Speaker 16: off of you for a change. 744 00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:21,799 Speaker 7: So that's good. 745 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:29,799 Speaker 1: And like that, in an incredible gesture of generosity and compassion, 746 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:34,960 Speaker 1: Renee high Tower and Julia Beverly had something they desperately needed. 747 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:45,880 Speaker 1: Since December of twenty twenty, hope on the next Murder 748 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,080 Speaker 1: on Songbird Road, minds are changed. 749 00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,600 Speaker 6: This zero chance of somebody just wandering around back here. 750 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, and unfortunately this is not the kind of neighborhood 751 00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:00,520 Speaker 1: where you would have ring cameras or no way as 752 00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:04,799 Speaker 1: knocking on doors, and Marion leads to a major breakthrough. 753 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,960 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, he has tattoos, he would be identifiable, 754 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,920 Speaker 1: and the concept of beyond a reasonable doubt is revisited. 755 00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,560 Speaker 1: Oh my god, Oh my. 756 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:18,319 Speaker 5: God, that's huge. 757 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,919 Speaker 1: Murder on Songbird Road is a production of iHeart Podcasts. 758 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:26,120 Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Taylor Chaqoine and Lauren Bright Pacheco. 759 00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:31,000 Speaker 1: Research writing and hosting by Lauren Bright Pacheco. Investigative reporting 760 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:35,000 Speaker 1: by Bob Matta and Lauren Bright Pacheco, editing, sound design 761 00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:39,080 Speaker 1: and original music by Evan Tyre and Taylor Chaqoine. Additional 762 00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,839 Speaker 1: music by Asher Kurtz. Please like, subscribe, and leave us 763 00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:45,960 Speaker 1: a review. Wherever you're listening. You can follow me on 764 00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,160 Speaker 1: all platforms at Lauren Bright Pacheco and email the show 765 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:54,040 Speaker 1: with thought, suggestions or tips at Investigating Murder at iHeartMedia 766 00:45:54,080 --> 00:46:16,160 Speaker 1: dot com. For more iHeart podcasts, Visit the iHeartRadio app, 767 00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,600 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. 768 00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:20,800 Speaker 5: Thanks for listening.