WEBVTT - Just Like a Prayer (w/ Ryan Murphy) 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:05.200 And that's what you really missed With Jenna and Kevin 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:12.119 an iHeartRadio Podcast, Welcome too, and that's what you really missed. 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.960 I'm Jenna, I'm Kevin, and today we are joined by 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:23.200 the mastermind of Glee again, Ryan Murphy. We just can't 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:27.120 keep him away. He keeps coming back. Goodness, thank goodness. 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:30.920 I every time Ryan comes on, like I talked about, 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:33.640 like every time he's been on, you know, once before, 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:37.000 but it feels like a lifetime when we talk to him. 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:39.680 It feels like we like it fills up this like 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:44.040 crazy bowl and overflows and you get so much information 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:49.519 that you didn't know. We talk about a reboot, We 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:55.120 talked about his Baby Passion episode Madonna, which kind of 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:58.080 changed the course of Glee forever in many of our 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:03.440 minds and hopefully you're and also the how those things 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:07.120 logistically on like a business side work, like how do 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:09.880 you get the rights to doing whatever you want with 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:14.000 Madonna's music? That's absolutely crazy? And did Ryan have to 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:18.640 bang Madonna? Did he? Does Ryan beg anyone? Now we'll 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:22.479 find out. Enjoyed this conversation. We could talk to him 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:26.480 for hours and hours. Brian came on again and chatted 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:29.839 with us. Thank you, Ryan, and we hope you enjoy 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:33.840 this conversation again with the one and only Ryan Murphy. 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:36.759 Thank you for doing this again. I know it's good 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:40.399 to see you. Good to see you, guys. I have 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:44.119 to do this one because it was my my big 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:47.199 directorial thing that I loved doing that first season, other 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:52.000 than the pilot. So before we get into Madonna, congrats 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:55.200 on the Carol Burnette Award. That was a beautiful, beautiful 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:59.200 thank you. It was an hour to do and it 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:01.640 was an honor to be a part of some clips 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:07.240 and that tribute. You're welcome. That's what's so crazy is 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:11.160 you know, you're sitting there and I wouldn't say I'm young, 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:13.640 but I'm relatively on the young side to get some 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:15.959 sort of lifetime achievement awards. So you're sitting in here, 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:19.920 like for so much of it. When I was looking 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:21.520 at it and watching it for the first time, I 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:23.760 was just like, I had to fight, like to get 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:26.240 this stuff on the air. So much of it was 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:28.520 a battle, and then halfway through I'm like, oh yeah, 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:32.800 then it got easier right around here, and I was overwhelming, 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:35.640 and I had taken a clear in d that morning, 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:37.760 so when I got up to speak after talking like this, 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:40.120 I'm like, oh my god, this could go so wrong. 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:43.320 I got through it. I got through it. I did 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:46.799 my breathing, and I got through it. My beautiful speech. 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:50.800 It was a great speech. Yeah, it's beautiful. It made 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:53.120 us think of when we went to the Golden Globes 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:57.120 for the first time, and one after what half the 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:02.040 first season had aired. This seems absurd. Did you think 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:05.760 we were going to win? You know, that was a 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:11.600 really interesting time where broadcast TV hit some real oomp, 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:16.720 you know, and I remember going in and I didn't 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:19.600 really care because I liked my clothes so well. I 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:23.160 was on the Shevan sheet talks that I've loved, and 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:26.800 I remember people saying it was between us and Modern Family. 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.240 I think, yeah, that was like, you know, those were 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:32.520 the two big broadcast juggernauts, and Dana Walden, who I'm 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.520 very close with, those were both of her shows, so 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:39.200 I knew she'd have a good night either way. But 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:43.960 I wasn't really surprised, I guess about the first year 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:47.080 because it had become such a cultural juggernaut at that point. 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:49.600 I was surprised the next year when we did the 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:54.000 back to back. That was surprising to me. But I 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:56.800 was shooting the Madonna episode right around the time of 0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:00.680 the Golden Globes, so I remember it was just such 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:03.600 a you know, a big moment for you, for you 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:07.119 guys and for the show, and it really had taken off. 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:10.880 It was nutty. Yeah. Did you feel sort of vindicated 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:14.200 winning because you know the show Convincing the network in 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:16.040 the studio to actually make the show in the first 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:18.520 place is sort of like a thing. And then you 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:22.120 win this award? What happens? Then the show's a juggernaut. 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:25.920 You win Best Comedy and then you're getting picked up 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:29.200 for the back nine. What does that whole since this 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:35.960 has look like on your end of it, Oh gosh, um, well, 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:39.440 I had one. It wasn't my first trip to the rodeo. 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:43.240 You know, that's been there before with Nicktuck before. I 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:45.360 think for me that period of time, there were so 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:50.520 many people who did support the show against a huge 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:53.640 group of people at the network that did not want 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:56.160 it to go forward. But Dana really fought for it, 0:04:56.960 --> 0:05:01.640 so I felt she was very vindicated. I have a 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:04.760 theory about awards, which is, you know, if you get 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:09.039 nominated for award much More important than the win is 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:11.160 the fact that you probably can stay on the air 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:14.480 now for five years. That's kind of how it works 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:18.440 because once you get in that rarefied air win loser draw, 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:23.320 it's a sign that the show is popular or critically loved, 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:28.200 and then you get a future. So for me getting 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:31.240 nominated and then winning with a musical, I was like, well, 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:34.240 this has this can go four or five seasons, which 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:37.360 it did, and that's what the win was, more than 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.280 the actual trophy. But I remember the thing I remember 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:46.120 the most is the win. I remember thinking Barbara streisand 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:49.120 in some bizarre way, it was kind of an out 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:51.200 of body experience. And to be quite blunt, we were 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:55.840 all incredibly drunk in that room youtubecluded I remember, And 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:58.680 then I remember what I really remember was in that 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:03.320 still exists, was you know, you win, and you could 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:06.640 tell the room was really rooting for us because of 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:08.880 the musical theater thing. And then we all went backstage 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:12.480 and I remember that incredible photograph, yes, of all of 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:16.240 you guys and Brad and I and maybe Brad wasn't there, 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:21.080 ian Um reaching for the statue and I think somebody 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:26.520 was whoever was behind me was was tickling me. Um, 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:30.440 so I had I smiled unexpectedly when the photograph was taken, 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:37.040 but um, yeah, I have fun memories of that unexpected 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:41.920 it was. Yes, yeah, there was a lot of joy 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:43.840 that night. There was a lot of joy, and there 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.200 was a lot of joy in that whole period of 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:59.320 the show, which I love and remember. Finally, do you 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:01.400 want to talk about about some Madonna? I mean I 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:04.080 want to talk about some season one stuff as well, 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:07.920 but I think Madonna is like the Mecca. Tell us 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:13.800 about the the idea for the first tribute episode and 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:17.160 was it not even the succession like a planned was 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:19.640 it just a Madonna episode that was kind of on 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:22.440 the forefront of your mind? How did that kind of 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:27.440 what was what was that like? You know what was interesting? 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:31.640 Because there was two things about that, which was you know, 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:34.000 we made as we talked about the first chunk of 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:37.440 that show in a real bubble. The pilot it aired 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:41.400 in May, did okay? Was on after the American Idol 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:48.200 finale that I pushed for It did okay, and we 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:52.440 made them and we didn't have the back half picked up. 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:56.400 And then I went off to Rome with Julia Roberts, right, 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:01.080 So I was off making Eat, Pray, Love with Julia, 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:04.160 and I was all flying oh over the world, and 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:08.880 I'm not someone who does well with that, so draftling. 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:12.480 But she and I had a great time, and Cass 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:15.840 was great and Billy Crude was great. We just had 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:19.560 a ball and you know, so it was interesting for 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:21.600 me that it started to air and I was not 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:23.440 in the country. I was in Rome, and I will 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:28.960 never forget it. Like, after the second episode aired, it 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:31.640 did well, and then I think it was after the 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:34.720 Christian Channa with the Roads Not Traveled episode, which was 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:38.040 three I think, or was it four. It was in 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:41.199 that group time. I got a call from Jennifer Sulky, 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:46.200 who now runs Amazon, and she said, I just got 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:49.160 the ratings in for that episode, and you're not going 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:51.559 to believe how big they are. Something is happening. It's 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:54.960 a big hit. And it kept growing every week, which 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:59.640 is a real sign. And so I wasn't there. And 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.360 you know, this was really before the Internet and before 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:04.640 social media where you could log in, so it was 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:07.240 all happening in a vacuum, and I never really read reviews, 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:14.160 so I didn't get sent that packet. So they called 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:16.240 me when by the time I got to India. They 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:21.760 called where No, Yeah, India, they called and picked up 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:28.080 the back half and we had to start writing, you know, 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:31.080 because we had to start shooting because they were really 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:37.760 wanted it to go on the air quickly. And we 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:42.080 remember what happened. But I remember getting a call from 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:45.640 I think it was Peter Lagori or Kevin Reilly or 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:49.560 somebody saying me saying, well, what are you what are 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:52.400 you interested in for the rest of the show, And 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:54.640 he said something like, I really want a lot of 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:57.599 you in there. I want I want a lot of you. 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:00.480 Because at that point I was picking all the songs. Yeah, 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:03.480 I did for several seasons, and I thought, okay, well, 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:06.240 and I thought, well, what do I want to do? Yeah? 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:08.120 Who do I want to pay tribute to? And it 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:09.960 wasn't even the idea that I wanted to do a 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:12.839 whole episode, but I thought, well, I want to. I 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:17.839 want to. I want to do some more Madonna a 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:24.640 because she meant so much to me coming up, you know, 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:28.600 and I have a funny story about that. And then 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:31.800 also because I had worked with her and I thought 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:33.960 it would be impossible to do and I like doing 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:40.800 things that are scary, so um, That's how that started. 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:43.600 And I do think that that episode changed the show 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:50.920 hugely because before I remember one review that I read 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:54.720 very early on in the run of Glee was I 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:59.480 think like a duets episode and it was about just 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:03.320 very simple staging and two people singing songs to each 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:06.880 other in a choir room, and someone like I think 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:11.880 it was Matt Rouch just wrote and said, why can't 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:17.480 all the episodes be like this? Meaning simple, nice, quiet? 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:19.520 But that was never what the show was about. I 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:23.440 was always shocked that people never understood the anarchy of 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:26.560 the show. And then it truly was a satire. I 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:31.800 mean it struck me once I got deeper into what 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:33.880 people were thinking of it, because I had to ask. 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:36.520 I was like, so people didn't have trouble with the 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:40.320 Susie Pepper story, and people didn't have trouble with the 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:44.240 ejaculation and the hot tub story. No, it was always 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:46.760 very subversive and Ian and Brad and I really wrote 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:49.960 it as a satire. That's what it was. Yeah, long 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:52.320 story short, I called up Brad and Ian and I said, Okay, 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:56.000 we have to get we have to get writing. The 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:58.280 good newses were picked up. The bad news is I'm 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:01.880 in Bali and you have to come over to be 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:06.240 with me and Bali and write these episodes. Y Ian 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:10.080 was like great, and Brad was like, um, I have children, 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:12.760 and I said, well, I don't know what else to do. 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:15.320 There was no zooms, There was nothing we tried doing 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:17.120 and it wasn't working. And all of us had always 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:20.480 done the episodes together. So Brad made it work and 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:25.720 they flew over to m Bali and the worst places 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:28.720 to have to go work there were, you know Julia, 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:31.520 I remember we were under my days off, we would 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:36.960 just be sequestered in a hotel room overlooking a beautiful 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:40.920 beach and Julia Roberts would drop off snacks. And I 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:43.480 was literally trying to teach Brad and Ian about Madonna 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:46.120 because they were straight and they really did not know. 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.600 I think I think I played that name that tune 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:51.880 thing once with Brad and I would play a song 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:53.720 and he would be like, like a virgin, but no, 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:57.079 this is material girl. So it was a learning curve. 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:03.520 But I showed was that because for me, I was 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:05.760 an underdog as a kid, and I was an underdog 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:07.640 growing up. And there was a seminal moment for me 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.000 where I went to a college party my freshman year, 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:12.600 and it was at some dude's house. It was kind 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:14.880 of like a frat group, and there were a lot 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:17.160 of women there are young women, and there was a 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:19.959 couple of gay guys there, and all these straight dudes 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:21.960 holding up the wall, you know, just talking, and I 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:24.720 really think they were playing like Black Sabbath or something. 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:31.640 It was really bad. And I had a Madonna cassette 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:34.280 in my car and I'm ready to got it ready, 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:36.160 and I was just like, well, let's get this party started. 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:38.360 So I put it on and I put on dress 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:41.679 you Up. And the next thing I know, everyone was 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:44.240 on the dance floor and it really changed the room. 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:47.360 And this one on for an hour, and then finally 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:49.840 the straight guy took out the cassette and ripped it. 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:53.440 He broke it because we had hijacked his party. And 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:56.360 I thought, oh, that's a real memorable feeling for me 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:58.440 that I know well, being a gay guy moving in 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:01.000 the world. And I never forgot that moment of what 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:04.319 she meant to a group of people who could come 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:07.320 together who all kind of felt like underdogs or minorities 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:11.880 or outcasts. That's really how that episode started. But the 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:15.240 other thing that changed the show at that point. Once 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:20.920 we made it, it went from being a show that 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:23.880 was kind of a quiet, lovely little satire to a 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:29.320 true spectacle, you know, to a true pop culture thing 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:32.360 where we really started to pay a lot more attention 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:38.080 to pop culture things and movements and people. But I remember, 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:44.560 I just remember that that episode is I think when 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:49.520 I changed the show, changed people's perception of the show changed. 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:52.840 It was an interesting moment in the history of a show. 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:54.960 And if you look back on it, for better or 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:58.400 for worse, that is the episode you know now, I 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:02.080 think that I probably would not have done something so big. 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:05.680 I probably would have kept it small and I would 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:10.960 have kept it more about ordinary kids in ordinary circumstances. 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:16.680 But I was very proud of that episode. I mean, 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:20.280 watching it back, it's you can tell the difference of 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:21.840 when we get to that episode, when we get to 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:23.600 the back nine, all of a sudden, there is this 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:32.240 Shakey's shift. But that episode is phenomenal, is good, so good, 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:35.160 and you all those things that you were just talking about. 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:38.800 The entire episode feels like that feeling of that straight 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:42.600 kid tearing up that cassette and having the juxtaposition of 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:44.680 it meaning so much to one group of people than 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:47.720 having this other group completely not get it and fight 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:49.920 against it because other people are enjoying it, right, and 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:51.600 you feel that do the whole thing. I mean it 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:54.200 kind of mirrors like the Actuality Too, which you directed, 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:59.880 which we just watched as well. It feels similar. Yes, wow, 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:05.560 it's all about the Gagay thing happened because of you guys, 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:11.000 because and started a really wonderful relationship that I have 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:14.880 with her to this day. But I remember there was 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:18.200 a real generational divide between us. You guys were young 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:21.400 and very current, and you were the first person to 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:23.840 talk to me about Twitter, the first person to talk 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:26.960 about Lady Gaga. You had been on some press tour. 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:29.680 I think she had been there or you were we 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:32.080 were on an MTV show with her, But you talked 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:34.960 about her and how unique and strange, and I remember 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:39.760 Kevin saying, I think you would like her. She's very 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:44.840 unusual or something. Well yeah, yeah, so, but in that 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:48.200 she was wonderful. But the thing about the tribute episodes 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:51.760 were interesting because they did have a life of their own. 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:56.840 And for me, I will tell you, like, the most 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:59.400 validating thing was from the kid who had his Madonna 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:03.200 because set ripped out by the straight bro. Then to 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:05.400 direct that episode, and then for it to be such 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:07.840 a highly rated episode, and then for I think the 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:11.040 album hit number one, the Madonna album that we did 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:15.359 that accompanied the episode. Yeah, it was just very sort 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:19.399 of a big full circle moment for me where I 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:23.159 also love moments where I get to say to people 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:29.960 who I loved, like Madonna or Barbra Streisan or Stevie 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:34.040 Nicks or on and on and on Gaga, like just 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.320 to say thank you. You know, I'm a fan and 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:40.679 I always did that show specifically the music from a 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:46.200 place of fandom. But you said it was it felt impossible, 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:50.720 like Madonna felt impossible? What about it was so scary 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:54.119 to you? Because for us, like you know, and to 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:56.520 your credit, like we didn't feel that fear, Like we 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:58.679 just felt like, okay, right, as good as we're doing this, 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:02.679 like this is awesome. We don't know behind the scenes 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:04.600 of how do you get her to agree, how do 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:08.879 you get the catalog? And then how right? Well I 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:11.200 had worked with her before, which is a great story, 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:14.480 which is my beginning of my career. Was Madonna? Really 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:18.920 I had just sold a script to Steven Spielberg called 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:22.080 why can't I be Audrey? Hepburn. That was the first 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:24.640 script I ever wrote, really and he bought it, which 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:27.439 you know, and then I was thrust into this on 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:29.719 the cover of the Trades and all this stuff, and 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:33.879 I would have these amazing weekly tutorials with Steven Spielberg 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:36.720 about this is how you write a script and you 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:40.240 should be thinking about this a very bizarre way of 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:44.320 introduction to the business. And it got a lot of publicity, 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:46.639 not because of me, but because of that title, like 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:49.080 it was just a great title. Yeah. Yeah. So the 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:50.480 next thing I know, I got a call from this 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:52.919 guy at Lake Shore, a lovely guy named Tom Rosenberg, 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:56.119 and he said, hey, I'm doing this producing this movie 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:59.439 with Rupert Everett and Madonna. And you used to be 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:01.960 a journalist, didn't you. And I said I was and 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:04.080 he said, but you're now a screenwriter and I said, 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:08.680 I'm trying to And he said, well, I'm looking for 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:12.879 somebody who could interview Madonna about her life and her 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:19.560 views and put those feelings into the script. And he 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:21.359 said will you do it? And I said, well, what 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:23.119 does that mean? And he said, I want you to 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:26.960 go to New York for a couple months, once a month, 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:28.840 and I want you to sit with the tape recorder 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:30.720 and talk to her about her life and then put 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:33.199 that into the next draft of the script. So I 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:36.520 was like what I was absolutely couldn't say quick yes 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:39.040 enough and actually would have done it for free. Yeah, 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:42.080 And this was Ray of Light Madonna. This was like wow, 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:45.800 this was like nineteen ninety eight. It was her world 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:48.800 and we're all living in it. Yeah. So I flew 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:52.200 to New York and this is a true story that 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.920 no one ever believes me and the elevator ride up 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:58.840 to meet Madonna for the first time with Tom. He 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:00.679 turned to me and said, I forgot to ask you 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:03.840 when is your birthday? And I said what? And he 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:06.480 said when is your birthday? And I said I'm November ninth, 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:09.560 and he goes, are you a scorpio? I said yeah, 0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:11.639 and he goes, you can't tell that to her because 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:14.600 she won't hire you. And I said, what do you mean? 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:17.320 He said, I don't know, but just don't say you're 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:20.800 a scorpio. Say you're something else. So lo and behold, 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:23.760 I meet her. She's lovely. The last question is when 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:27.960 we were born? And I gave her my mother's birthday 0:20:28.000 --> 0:20:31.240 of September third, and she said, oh virgo, okay, that's 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:37.200 my mom's birthday. Oh yeah, Wow, We're connected deeply, Kevin, 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:40.639 I got By the time we got down to the lobby, 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:43.399 it came word that I was hired. So I had 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:46.400 this incredible five or six month period where I'd flied 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:50.440 to New York. I would be ushered into a beautiful 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:54.200 room in her home. I would sit under this amazing 0:20:55.960 --> 0:21:00.400 Tamera did them pinkup painting, and she would come out 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:04.720 smelling like Pachuli oiled with her drowned world hair, and 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:06.719 she would sit and I would talk. So I had 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:09.560 this great experience with her. And I cannot say enough 0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:13.680 good things about Madonna, how nice she was. I never 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:16.120 understood the scorpio thing, and maybe it was a joke 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:19.000 between them, but it was funny, and she was so 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:21.720 cool and kind. And I asked her very first personal 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:25.080 questions about her life and her childbirth because that was 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:28.200 the point of the show. So I did a draft 0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:30.159 and Tom loved it. The next thing I know is 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:34.239 Rupert Everett read the draft and was like, this is 0:21:34.240 --> 0:21:36.280 supposed to be a two hander, and I feel the 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:40.320 entire thing is now about Madonna's character. So I was 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:45.960 I had got to help Tom and Rupert and Madonna 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:51.080 work and choose the director, which was John Slessinger who 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:53.800 directed Midnight Cowboys. So I was like this young punk 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:56.080 and I never understood why they were saying, well, who 0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:59.119 would you hire? I was like John Slessinger. So anyway, 0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:03.119 I was systematically after that draft fired from that project. 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:09.760 And I think some of it that Madonna's yoga teaching 0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:12.920 stuff made it into the movie. But she was kind 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:15.399 and wonderful. So when I came up with this idea 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:17.879 to do the tribute jumping ahead to Glee, I had 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:20.960 had an experience with her and I knew her manager, 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:26.520 Guy Osiri, a little bit, so I called him and said, 0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:29.400 I have a really crazy idea and it's a real 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:33.040 leap of faith because to do it, I just need 0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:36.960 permission and I can't really be told which songs to choose, 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:40.879 But will you? Asked Madonna if we can do a 0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:43.800 tribute episode to her, which was kind of the first 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:45.760 so it was kind of whoever was going to be 0:22:45.920 --> 0:22:48.640 that person was going to have to take a leap 0:22:48.680 --> 0:22:51.480 of faith and give me the rights to your catalog 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:54.639 and let me record an album, and let let me 0:22:54.800 --> 0:22:59.160 interpret your music the way that we want to ask 0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:03.160 ask for a show that also was, like you said, 0:23:03.200 --> 0:23:05.639 it was building in success every week, like the numbers. 0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:09.200 We've been tracking the numbers too, where it still wasn't gigantic, 0:23:09.359 --> 0:23:12.440 but it was getting it was getting substantially bigger every 0:23:12.440 --> 0:23:15.000 single week. When you're asking one of the biggest artists 0:23:15.000 --> 0:23:20.400 of all time, have free reign of everything. Yeah, And 0:23:22.119 --> 0:23:27.320 so he asked her, and much to my surprise, until 0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:30.080 she said yes. And I think the reason she said 0:23:30.160 --> 0:23:33.679 yes was because she I don't know that she'd watched 0:23:33.720 --> 0:23:37.720 the show or knew that much about it. I think 0:23:37.720 --> 0:23:39.320 she was aware of it, and I think when it 0:23:39.400 --> 0:23:42.920 was explained to her that these were kids who were 0:23:42.960 --> 0:23:46.280 in a show choir dance group thing, it's kind of 0:23:46.359 --> 0:23:48.719 touched a nerve for her because she had come up 0:23:48.760 --> 0:23:52.400 in that world. You know, she had gone to in Michigan, 0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:57.280 um kind of a she was a dancer, so I 0:23:57.280 --> 0:24:00.800 think she she had a real appreciation for kids making 0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:02.560 it and trying to do it. So then that's how 0:24:02.600 --> 0:24:04.800 I got the rights, and I was I could not 0:24:04.920 --> 0:24:09.280 believe it actually, and from Madonna's generosity and kindness came 0:24:10.359 --> 0:24:14.679 so many other people, Paul McCartney, you know, Barbara Stratt, 0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:22.080 just Legends and Gaga. Um So that started our absolutely 0:24:22.119 --> 0:24:25.880 insane tribute series. And you asked, how did I pick 0:24:25.960 --> 0:24:28.760 the songs? I don't really remember. I remember, you know, 0:24:28.800 --> 0:24:31.680 you start with, like, okay, who were the characters. There 0:24:31.760 --> 0:24:34.800 was a story, there was the there was the Leah 0:24:34.880 --> 0:24:41.120 Corey story, there was the um um, well, I love 0:24:41.160 --> 0:24:43.199 the thing that the person who was the world's biggest 0:24:43.200 --> 0:24:45.440 Madonna fan was Susol Faster, which I thought would be 0:24:45.480 --> 0:24:51.880 absolutely true. So that was kind of the jumping off points. Yeah, 0:24:51.920 --> 0:24:54.119 and I but it was so much fun to write, 0:24:54.240 --> 0:24:59.080 and um, I think we really did shoot our first draft. 0:24:59.119 --> 0:25:01.240 I mean the fun thing about it was I did 0:25:01.240 --> 0:25:03.800 a Madonna boot camp for Brad and Ian and tried 0:25:03.840 --> 0:25:07.520 to explain to them my obsession with Madonna. And then 0:25:09.280 --> 0:25:12.919 we've wrote the script and that was it, and and 0:25:12.960 --> 0:25:14.720 then we were thinking of well, who could direct it? 0:25:14.760 --> 0:25:17.439 And I remember Brad saying, You've got to be kidding, 0:25:17.600 --> 0:25:21.000 You're like nobody else understand how to do with this. 0:25:21.800 --> 0:25:24.280 And then I loved the challenge of there's one shot 0:25:24.320 --> 0:25:28.280 that I was rewatching the episode in anticipation of this 0:25:29.760 --> 0:25:32.080 wonderful meeting with you too. And there was one shot 0:25:32.119 --> 0:25:34.960 that I remember Leah and Corey were running down the 0:25:35.000 --> 0:25:38.480 hallway singing and they passed like the ten different Madonna. 0:25:39.200 --> 0:25:40.920 That's what I want to have been dying to ask 0:25:40.920 --> 0:25:44.160 you about this. Please explain all of that. It made 0:25:44.200 --> 0:25:48.800 absolutely no sense, but it was so. It was cinema, Ryan, 0:25:49.400 --> 0:25:52.320 that was cinema was cinema. It was the thing I 0:25:52.400 --> 0:25:54.480 loved about her that she meant so much to me 0:25:54.520 --> 0:25:56.840 and continues to mean so much to me, which is 0:25:56.880 --> 0:26:05.160 that she never got pigeonholed and she changed. And I 0:26:05.200 --> 0:26:07.320 really wanted to do that in my career, and I 0:26:07.359 --> 0:26:09.399 really kind of had tried, and I think I have 0:26:09.560 --> 0:26:12.000 done it, which is always doing the opposite thing nobody 0:26:12.040 --> 0:26:15.160 expects you to do whatever. So I wanted to pay 0:26:15.200 --> 0:26:17.600 tribute to the quality in her that I love the most, 0:26:17.640 --> 0:26:21.080 which was all of these different looks and in a 0:26:21.240 --> 0:26:23.040 very short amount of time. So when you see that 0:26:23.119 --> 0:26:26.960 there's like ten people in these different I think I 0:26:27.040 --> 0:26:29.399 even did it. Who's that girl? Shout out with the bowler? 0:26:29.440 --> 0:26:32.080 And like I was nutty And I remember Lou and 0:26:32.119 --> 0:26:36.360 I the costumer spending hours trying to figure out our 0:26:36.400 --> 0:26:39.200 favorite Madonna looks. And she had a say in that too, 0:26:39.840 --> 0:26:42.400 and I love that was so much fun, the two 0:26:42.440 --> 0:26:44.840 of you being able to talk about your favorite Madonna looks. Yeah, 0:26:44.840 --> 0:26:48.840 it was fun and it was a real tribute, and 0:26:48.880 --> 0:26:51.720 so we shot it and did it, and it to 0:26:51.840 --> 0:26:54.040 this day has one of the most fun things that 0:26:54.080 --> 0:26:57.600 I've ever done, which is directing Jane Lynch almost in 0:26:57.640 --> 0:27:01.800 a side by side in comparison beat by beat tribute 0:27:01.800 --> 0:27:05.480 to Madonna in Vogue, which Jane won the Emmy Award 0:27:05.520 --> 0:27:09.800 I think for that episode. So um, that was nuts 0:27:10.000 --> 0:27:14.240 and I don't and again an example of the show 0:27:14.320 --> 0:27:16.960 really like we had not done something like that before, 0:27:17.560 --> 0:27:20.320 and it was kind of looking back, I'm glad I 0:27:20.359 --> 0:27:22.639 did it. Should I have done it? Probably not, but 0:27:23.080 --> 0:27:25.960 you know, who knows. But I wanted it to beat 0:27:26.000 --> 0:27:28.639 beat by beat and Zach Woodley and I the choreographer, 0:27:28.680 --> 0:27:31.600 and Chris bath Of the cinematographer, and we had to 0:27:31.600 --> 0:27:33.840 get permission from the studio to do a black and 0:27:33.840 --> 0:27:37.280 white segment because you just didn't do that right. Um, 0:27:37.400 --> 0:27:39.800 some countries wouldn't carry it, or it was just a 0:27:39.840 --> 0:27:43.800 whole big thing. Um things you don't think about. So 0:27:43.840 --> 0:27:47.840 we had the video and we had we recreated we 0:27:47.920 --> 0:27:50.119 looked at it like the Zapruder film, like you know, 0:27:50.520 --> 0:27:55.240 it was just like constant looking at it, poppying the sets. Yeah, 0:27:55.440 --> 0:28:04.959 we had Jane check everything we had. Yeah, Madonna was 0:28:05.359 --> 0:28:08.359 Jane was actually a gigantic Madonna fan as well. She was, 0:28:08.480 --> 0:28:11.600 and so she was saying how fortunate she got to 0:28:11.600 --> 0:28:14.119 do that too, like how how cool that is and 0:28:14.200 --> 0:28:16.040 like what world would you ever get to do something 0:28:16.080 --> 0:28:19.120 like that? And also, Adam, you give that to change 0:28:19.160 --> 0:28:20.720 some of the lyrics too, where she got to say 0:28:20.840 --> 0:28:25.160 will I hate you and things like that, which is crazy, 0:28:25.160 --> 0:28:28.800 and Madonna had Madonna had to approve that. So again 0:28:28.840 --> 0:28:32.000 it was me calling Hi, it's me again, and they're like, 0:28:32.000 --> 0:28:34.160 who is this Will Schuster? What are you talking about? 0:28:34.520 --> 0:28:40.000 But um, yeah, I remember you guys. I remember everybody 0:28:40.000 --> 0:28:42.280 in the cast dropping by to watch that being shot. 0:28:42.840 --> 0:28:46.520 I remember you guys coming by. Oh yes, um we 0:28:46.600 --> 0:28:49.760 had to Yeah, it was. It was really kind of 0:28:49.760 --> 0:28:52.120 an amazing thing. And you know, Jane had said that 0:28:52.200 --> 0:28:55.800 before the Your show but which I watched or listened to, 0:28:55.880 --> 0:28:58.640 where she talked about a lot of the props that 0:28:58.840 --> 0:29:02.240 David Fincher you used in the original Volk video. We 0:29:02.360 --> 0:29:06.200 found so we got to do all of that um 0:29:06.800 --> 0:29:09.800 stuff and in a real tribute not only to Madonna 0:29:09.840 --> 0:29:12.840 but to David Fincher because that that video was still 0:29:12.880 --> 0:29:18.160 I think the number the best video ever made. And yeah, 0:29:18.200 --> 0:29:20.320 so we got to do all of that stuff and 0:29:20.360 --> 0:29:22.479 it was incredible, and also it was incredible that the 0:29:22.520 --> 0:29:25.680 studio let me shoot that for two days. That was 0:29:25.720 --> 0:29:28.600 two days of work that was not just okay, we're 0:29:28.600 --> 0:29:31.920 gonna and it was expensive and then it looked eve 0:29:32.160 --> 0:29:35.960 it was and it was very st thirty five millimeter 0:29:36.040 --> 0:29:40.720 and literally we had there was the crazy thing a 0:29:40.800 --> 0:29:44.320 shot with Jane floating over what looked like a fabric yes, 0:29:44.960 --> 0:29:47.400 and you know in that so we had to figure out, well, 0:29:47.440 --> 0:29:50.080 how did how did they do that? And they had 0:29:50.160 --> 0:29:54.400 Madonna on sort of a like a lever that was 0:29:54.440 --> 0:29:57.280 supporting her neck from the back and it was like 0:29:57.280 --> 0:30:00.640 a chiropractor table. So we had to build that and 0:30:00.920 --> 0:30:03.800 it was all just like a great learning technical experience. 0:30:03.800 --> 0:30:08.600 I've never done anything so technical. And Jane was a 0:30:08.640 --> 0:30:12.800 trooper and I take after take, Jane, move your head 0:30:12.840 --> 0:30:15.000 an eighth of an inch. If we looked at the monitor. 0:30:15.280 --> 0:30:18.479 Now back, raise your eyebrow, and I would always kind 0:30:18.520 --> 0:30:22.960 of let her do a take for herself, right, und Dad, 0:30:22.960 --> 0:30:25.840 out of your system, here's what actually need. Yeah, and 0:30:25.920 --> 0:30:28.280 we had fun. And about what I remember about it 0:30:28.320 --> 0:30:30.200 was at the beginning, like we keep talking about, of 0:30:30.240 --> 0:30:32.480 a feeling of oh, this is going to be people 0:30:32.520 --> 0:30:34.680 are going to lose their minds when this airs, and 0:30:34.760 --> 0:30:39.320 they did. It was a really really big rating success. 0:30:39.320 --> 0:30:42.200 He got nominated and won mini many awards. Jane won 0:30:42.240 --> 0:30:44.800 the Amy for this. I believe I was nominated for 0:30:44.840 --> 0:30:48.480 the Director's Guild Award for this episode, which was hilarious 0:30:48.480 --> 0:30:55.840 to me. And it was just yeah. And then the 0:30:55.880 --> 0:31:00.400 fun part was we finished. And that was back in 0:31:00.440 --> 0:31:02.320 the days too, where I would finish a cut and 0:31:02.360 --> 0:31:05.360 you guys would all come into the editing room which 0:31:05.440 --> 0:31:08.800 was literally a trailer and I'm sure covering those pestos 0:31:08.920 --> 0:31:12.840 or something, and it was a trailer. It was okay. 0:31:12.920 --> 0:31:17.400 I remember it giving I remember giving you snacks, and 0:31:17.440 --> 0:31:20.920 I remember showing you guys the episode are rough cut 0:31:21.000 --> 0:31:26.560 of it, Yes, And your reaction was the reaction that 0:31:26.800 --> 0:31:29.080 people had because it just kept building and building. It 0:31:29.120 --> 0:31:31.440 was a spectacle. It was nutty. It was about something. 0:31:32.160 --> 0:31:39.600 I remember shooting the Express Yourself number. How fun was that? 0:31:39.600 --> 0:31:44.600 That was really fun? And Jenna, I remember you were 0:31:44.720 --> 0:31:47.760 the only one who could ever do the monocle correctly 0:31:50.200 --> 0:31:52.240 of it, so if that was a big thing for 0:31:52.320 --> 0:31:55.320 me and I kept and then I remember you kept 0:31:55.360 --> 0:31:58.920 getting it right and everyone else was like, oh my god, 0:31:58.960 --> 0:32:03.000 it flew a wreck get people in the face. You 0:32:03.080 --> 0:32:05.200 were a dancer and you knew how to keep your shoulders. 0:32:05.240 --> 0:32:08.200 I don't know, but you were the thank you, thank 0:32:08.240 --> 0:32:11.040 you MVP with the monocle, the monocle actor as we 0:32:11.120 --> 0:32:14.640 called it. Yeah, yeah, we in our episodes we have 0:32:14.760 --> 0:32:17.720 best performances and best you know, superlatives, and we do 0:32:17.800 --> 0:32:19.920 the best performance by a prop and the monocle one 0:32:20.120 --> 0:32:25.360 for that was there's a lethal weapon. It was it 0:32:25.440 --> 0:32:27.720 really also just you know, doing it. It just made 0:32:27.760 --> 0:32:31.920 you you know, I think that's another moment we're doing 0:32:32.000 --> 0:32:36.640 Express Yourself and I remember the boys were directed to 0:32:36.720 --> 0:32:39.000 kind of be bored and kind of look off, and 0:32:40.240 --> 0:32:43.120 you guys were anything but you know, And that was 0:32:43.160 --> 0:32:46.120 also the beginning of something on the show where people 0:32:46.120 --> 0:32:48.280 would show up to watch those numbers, like we should 0:32:48.440 --> 0:32:50.960 built the auditorium and people all over the Paramount lot 0:32:50.960 --> 0:32:53.920 would show up. That was one of those days and 0:32:54.280 --> 0:32:56.479 one of those challenges because it was like, how can 0:32:56.520 --> 0:33:00.000 we be miserable during this The girls are kicking ass 0:33:00.040 --> 0:33:04.880 good and it was so good and the constance was hard. Yeah, 0:33:04.880 --> 0:33:07.959 every number was full of joy and excitement for us 0:33:07.960 --> 0:33:10.800 to get to do in every department. That's what it 0:33:10.840 --> 0:33:12.960 felt like. And I could tell that because you guys 0:33:13.040 --> 0:33:18.880 really put yourself into it and not even watching it. 0:33:18.880 --> 0:33:23.640 It has a level of energy from the actors that 0:33:23.760 --> 0:33:26.120 was new to watch because you could tell that you 0:33:26.160 --> 0:33:29.239 were also doing an in tribute to Madonna in some 0:33:29.320 --> 0:33:32.720 weird way, I felt, and everybody loved it. Everybody, even 0:33:32.800 --> 0:33:35.480 Corey loved it, like you know, yes, I loved the 0:33:35.720 --> 0:33:37.960 loved the tribute to her and the energy and thought 0:33:38.000 --> 0:33:40.120 it was about shit crazy what we were doing. And 0:33:40.280 --> 0:33:42.360 I mean there are so many numbers in it too, 0:33:42.840 --> 0:33:47.240 it's like, what was your did you have a favorite? 0:33:47.440 --> 0:33:51.000 You know. The other thing the pressure of doing this 0:33:51.760 --> 0:33:54.160 because at that point we knew that the artists a 0:33:54.160 --> 0:33:57.600 lot of the time responded to what we did in 0:33:57.640 --> 0:34:01.200 the episode. So I think knowing that Madonna was probably 0:34:01.280 --> 0:34:03.440 going to see it. It seemed unlikely, there's no way, 0:34:03.440 --> 0:34:04.880 but I was going to see this. But we also 0:34:04.960 --> 0:34:07.440 knew like if I sing this, I have to like 0:34:08.120 --> 0:34:10.880 do it's because she will probably I can't butcher what 0:34:10.880 --> 0:34:13.279 it feels like for a girl, right, yeah, I don't 0:34:13.280 --> 0:34:16.640 know when she thought, but my favorite number honestly was 0:34:17.239 --> 0:34:19.160 and maybe it's because we did it on tour, maybe 0:34:19.160 --> 0:34:23.960 because it has like nostalgia and sentimental feelings now, but 0:34:24.440 --> 0:34:29.279 like a prayer, right, like those numbers, it's like the 0:34:29.320 --> 0:34:32.960 feeling that I get that I remember doing with such 0:34:33.080 --> 0:34:35.520 joy and like Amber's mom being in the choir on 0:34:35.640 --> 0:34:38.880 stage with us and just like you're like just dance, 0:34:39.160 --> 0:34:42.520 you know, just like go, and that that to me 0:34:42.640 --> 0:34:47.400 is like what emulated the US, you know, as a 0:34:47.600 --> 0:34:50.000 as a group of new directions. But then also like 0:34:50.080 --> 0:34:52.280 I mean ray of Light when you have like people 0:34:52.320 --> 0:34:58.720 on stilts, it's like it's crazy, it's crazy. It was crazy, 0:34:58.719 --> 0:35:00.680 and those to remind me you were just saying what 0:35:00.680 --> 0:35:04.520 it feels like for a girl. That's such a beautiful arrangement. 0:35:04.680 --> 0:35:07.600 I mean, I think Anna Mandrew's did incredible arrangements throughout 0:35:07.600 --> 0:35:11.000 that whole episode. I thought it was really bold that 0:35:11.000 --> 0:35:13.239 you picked that song because it was not one of 0:35:13.239 --> 0:35:16.880 her biggest songs, but it was one of her the 0:35:16.960 --> 0:35:22.399 video being controversial, shocking her having a controversial video, and 0:35:22.600 --> 0:35:26.200 how you used it in having the sort of gender 0:35:26.239 --> 0:35:30.879 reverse perspective singing it was really powerful. Yeah, I only 0:35:31.719 --> 0:35:37.040 chose songs in that episode that meant something to me. Again, 0:35:37.200 --> 0:35:39.480 that feeling of what it feels like for our girl 0:35:39.600 --> 0:35:43.000 you could put what it feels like for a blank. Yeah, 0:35:43.840 --> 0:35:48.200 And it reminded me of me in college getting the 0:35:48.680 --> 0:35:51.680 single ripped apart, you know, like the cruelty of the 0:35:51.719 --> 0:35:55.440 world sometimes and how hard it is to be a 0:35:55.480 --> 0:35:59.759 woman or to which I think has changed so much. 0:35:59.760 --> 0:36:02.680 But you know, yeah, I was those songs were personal 0:36:02.719 --> 0:36:07.520 to me and I think you can tell. And but yeah, 0:36:07.520 --> 0:36:10.440 there was the moment of reckoning where I had to 0:36:10.480 --> 0:36:14.280 send it to her to watch because I do believe 0:36:14.320 --> 0:36:17.759 that the only caveat that they had was if she 0:36:17.800 --> 0:36:21.640 didn't like something. You know, she gave me complete freedom, 0:36:21.640 --> 0:36:26.040 but if she didn't like something, she politely said, I 0:36:26.040 --> 0:36:28.480 would like to have a discussion about it if it 0:36:28.719 --> 0:36:30.960 rubs me the wrong way, Because these are my songs, 0:36:31.000 --> 0:36:34.440 these are my children, my life and I said yes. 0:36:34.600 --> 0:36:38.080 So again throughout the entire process, I cannot express to 0:36:38.080 --> 0:36:41.759 you how kind she was about it and open about it, 0:36:41.800 --> 0:36:44.879 and then when she saw it even more kind and open. 0:36:45.080 --> 0:36:47.240 She didn't have a note, she didn't ask for anything 0:36:47.280 --> 0:36:53.279 to be changed. She loved it. She um wow. She 0:36:53.480 --> 0:36:58.319 was so supportive of it that at one point I 0:36:58.320 --> 0:37:01.360 thought I was being punked or like, really, this cannot 0:37:01.360 --> 0:37:04.120 be real. And then she put out a press release 0:37:04.200 --> 0:37:07.000 I believe the day the show aired, saying how much 0:37:07.080 --> 0:37:11.040 she supported it and what the show was about and 0:37:11.200 --> 0:37:14.560 doing for the world, and that her doing that at 0:37:14.560 --> 0:37:19.120 that moment in time also made the show be further 0:37:19.200 --> 0:37:22.560 recognized because a lot that letter got so much attention 0:37:22.680 --> 0:37:26.920 and that set the standard. Also like, okay, if we 0:37:26.960 --> 0:37:29.680 do a tribute episode part of the gig as you, 0:37:30.600 --> 0:37:32.920 we hope you like it enough to say something nice 0:37:33.360 --> 0:37:37.040 but right. And then the album hit number one. That 0:37:37.120 --> 0:37:38.879 was a big thing for me that I wanted her 0:37:38.960 --> 0:37:41.760 to get as a tribute from us to her, which happened. 0:37:42.400 --> 0:37:45.160 I remember getting a call from Jeff Bywater about you 0:37:45.239 --> 0:37:50.640 hit number one kid, yeah, smoking. So it was just 0:37:50.800 --> 0:37:56.719 all a Nutti Nutti Nutti experience. And then things were 0:37:56.719 --> 0:38:00.200 different in every way on that show. Yeah, how we 0:38:00.280 --> 0:38:03.040 need it, had the amount of money we were given 0:38:03.080 --> 0:38:07.919 to make it, how people viewed it. How in many 0:38:07.960 --> 0:38:11.800 cases things that I did in that episode that really 0:38:11.800 --> 0:38:16.200 were nuts and went off the rails um kept happening, 0:38:16.400 --> 0:38:18.759 you know, And I think in a different world it 0:38:18.800 --> 0:38:25.360 would um it would not probably have gone so crazy. 0:38:25.520 --> 0:38:28.600 And then you know, there was also the creative difficulty 0:38:28.640 --> 0:38:30.600 of well how do you top that? And we kept 0:38:30.719 --> 0:38:33.600 trying to top and top and top it with um 0:38:34.320 --> 0:38:39.360 right with Gagay, with Britney Spears, with Michael Jackson. The 0:38:39.480 --> 0:38:42.000 Michael Jackson episode is the one I believe that made 0:38:42.080 --> 0:38:44.960 both of you lose your minds or something happened around 0:38:44.960 --> 0:38:52.560 that time. Yes, we you survived, you did. I made it. 0:38:52.760 --> 0:38:55.080 You made it. And also I remember, didn't you guys 0:38:55.160 --> 0:38:58.279 walk off the set? Wasn't weren't we shooting something in 0:38:58.360 --> 0:39:02.560 a parking garage that went nutty? We didn't walk off. 0:39:02.600 --> 0:39:06.480 We didn't shoot something in a parking garage and had 0:39:07.680 --> 0:39:10.959 that was crazy because technically speaking, we had no time 0:39:11.000 --> 0:39:13.000 to rehearse in the parking garage and we were using 0:39:13.040 --> 0:39:16.200 an actual parking garage on the Paramount lot. So we 0:39:16.280 --> 0:39:19.560 don't wait for all the employees to leave, and so 0:39:19.640 --> 0:39:22.799 we would poor Zach Woodley would take whoever was in 0:39:22.840 --> 0:39:25.359 that section of the dance and we would sort of 0:39:25.360 --> 0:39:27.840 just map it out and shoot it as we were going, 0:39:28.160 --> 0:39:30.759 So we never rehearsed the whole thing. We could just 0:39:30.840 --> 0:39:33.560 do it bits. How did that happen? Why is that? 0:39:33.600 --> 0:39:36.880 Why did that happen? I think we were behind I 0:39:36.920 --> 0:39:42.000 think shooting that day already and then whenever Zach got us, 0:39:42.480 --> 0:39:45.800 it was so late that the crew was then moving 0:39:45.840 --> 0:39:47.799 over already, and you know, it was one of those 0:39:47.800 --> 0:39:50.520 technical things where you have to wrangle eighty of us, 0:39:50.800 --> 0:39:54.440 change us, redo our everything. This was when Sebastian was 0:39:54.480 --> 0:39:56.640 getting hit with rocks in the slushy and that was 0:39:56.680 --> 0:40:00.279 Gran Augustine and I believe at this time this is 0:40:00.280 --> 0:40:02.160 when I lost my mind a little bit. I wasn't 0:40:02.160 --> 0:40:04.719 there for the second part of Michael, but we were 0:40:04.760 --> 0:40:07.640 shooting two episodes at the same time, I believe, and 0:40:07.719 --> 0:40:09.719 that's why I was in some of Michael and not 0:40:09.840 --> 0:40:12.440 in the second half of Michael. We were doing what 0:40:12.560 --> 0:40:16.040 episode was before Saturday Night Fever, if I maybe correct, 0:40:16.239 --> 0:40:17.880 it was the one with Saturday Night fever. At the 0:40:18.000 --> 0:40:20.520 end of the episode, we're all inmost white suits. I 0:40:20.560 --> 0:40:22.959 don't remember what it was, but we were doing two 0:40:23.000 --> 0:40:26.960 at once and crossing over and then I think Bad 0:40:27.080 --> 0:40:29.600 was like a night shoot and we went in and 0:40:29.719 --> 0:40:34.200 like you'd be like, car Well, that's also funny to 0:40:34.239 --> 0:40:39.239 talk about that episode and Madonna, because you know, my 0:40:39.360 --> 0:40:45.759 life changed between those times, right right. I was very, very, 0:40:45.880 --> 0:40:47.920 very very you know, we've talked about this, but I 0:40:48.400 --> 0:40:51.000 was very very in that show the first two years, 0:40:51.120 --> 0:40:55.880 really really in it, and then I had a baby, 0:40:56.560 --> 0:41:00.279 and then American Horror Story happened, and then I sort 0:41:00.280 --> 0:41:03.319 of went to having a bigger overall deal with more 0:41:03.360 --> 0:41:08.440 responsibilities and more development, and yeah, it was it was 0:41:08.440 --> 0:41:13.640 a much different world. And I do think the the now, 0:41:13.680 --> 0:41:18.160 it just seems like the idea that we did twenty 0:41:18.200 --> 0:41:22.000 two episodes a year of a musical is insane. How 0:41:22.080 --> 0:41:26.000 was that even allowed to happen? The schedules, like you 0:41:26.040 --> 0:41:28.640 know now you would do if you would do twelve, 0:41:28.680 --> 0:41:30.520 and I would say that's too much, But you know, 0:41:30.600 --> 0:41:34.120 there was no there was no protection for any of us. 0:41:34.600 --> 0:41:37.160 It was hard on you. I remember it was incredibly 0:41:37.200 --> 0:41:39.520 difficult with the writing because it was three of us 0:41:39.560 --> 0:41:42.040 doing it, and so many nights we'd be at the 0:41:42.120 --> 0:41:47.200 Chateau of Marmat in the lobby until the wee hours, 0:41:47.239 --> 0:41:52.120 like really struggling and how do we feel up these episodes? 0:41:52.200 --> 0:41:55.439 And it became you know, and then it became such 0:41:55.480 --> 0:42:00.440 a business that um and people wanted more, more of it, 0:42:00.640 --> 0:42:02.640 and the world wanted more of it at that point, 0:42:02.719 --> 0:42:07.040 So you know, the philosophy of my career has always 0:42:07.080 --> 0:42:12.000 been asked me, what my favorite word is, Kevin, what's 0:42:12.000 --> 0:42:15.600 your favorite word? Ryan? Yes, my favorite word is yes, 0:42:15.719 --> 0:42:18.719 because I always was like, yes, yes, I'll do more, Yes, 0:42:18.760 --> 0:42:23.399 I'll yes, we'll do because you never think that you're 0:42:23.920 --> 0:42:26.320 from Yes come as many joys. And at that point 0:42:26.719 --> 0:42:30.200 I felt like such a minority in the business and 0:42:30.360 --> 0:42:32.880 so lucky to be there, and thinking, well, this is 0:42:32.920 --> 0:42:35.439 never going to happen again, so sure we'll do a tour. Sure, 0:42:35.760 --> 0:42:37.680 why not? Like I just kept wanting to be a 0:42:37.680 --> 0:42:43.560 people pleaser and Um, looking back now, I mean that 0:42:43.640 --> 0:42:46.880 period of the Madonna episode, followed by all those awards, 0:42:46.920 --> 0:42:50.879 followed by that tour, we were grumbling about it, but 0:42:50.960 --> 0:42:53.120 I mean it was really one of the best times 0:42:53.120 --> 0:42:55.640 in my life. I was special to get to do that. 0:42:55.960 --> 0:42:58.520 I don't think we're sling yet. I don't think that 0:42:58.560 --> 0:43:01.400 we were quite there yet. Oh I was. I remember 0:43:01.440 --> 0:43:04.120 being like, I can't, I can't the scripts, like how 0:43:04.120 --> 0:43:06.319 do I do twenty two of a musical? Right? And 0:43:06.360 --> 0:43:10.160 then three of you doing that? Is that's crazy. I 0:43:10.200 --> 0:43:12.720 don't know how the three of you could write to 0:43:12.800 --> 0:43:15.920 you two full seasons just the three of you. How 0:43:15.960 --> 0:43:18.680 do you tune out like the pressure or do you not? 0:43:18.960 --> 0:43:21.080 Or did you feel or how do you tune out now? 0:43:21.280 --> 0:43:24.359 Like the pressure of like what the fans want when 0:43:24.400 --> 0:43:32.239 they went the expectation? Yeah? Um, yeah, that was That 0:43:32.320 --> 0:43:34.319 was that. That show was a learning curve in so 0:43:34.360 --> 0:43:37.719 many ways because it was also we've spoke about this privately, 0:43:37.760 --> 0:43:43.760 but it was sort of like me um at the beginning. 0:43:43.840 --> 0:43:47.120 You know, I felt very much like everybody else. I 0:43:47.239 --> 0:43:49.839 was working for a company, you know, I didn't feel 0:43:49.840 --> 0:43:51.560 like your boss. I felt like we were having fun. 0:43:51.600 --> 0:43:54.480 I was your peer. Yeah. You know, not only was 0:43:54.520 --> 0:43:57.000 I writing some of them a lot a lot of 0:43:57.040 --> 0:43:59.520 them with the guys, but I was directing a lot 0:43:59.560 --> 0:44:01.399 of them. And these are the days where I would 0:44:01.400 --> 0:44:04.279 go to every dance rehearsal yeah, I would go to 0:44:04.360 --> 0:44:07.160 every you know, cost him fit. I was so involved, 0:44:07.200 --> 0:44:10.080 and it was I felt so much pressure because who 0:44:10.160 --> 0:44:12.680 knew that this little fun thing that we did, that 0:44:12.719 --> 0:44:16.839 we did for us in a bubble would become such 0:44:16.880 --> 0:44:19.960 a worldwide success. And it was a worldwide success. So 0:44:20.000 --> 0:44:23.040 it was I've never had anything culturally bigger than that 0:44:23.160 --> 0:44:28.319 at that moment in time. And then you know what 0:44:28.400 --> 0:44:35.000 had started to happen was it was Niah who introduced 0:44:35.000 --> 0:44:37.440 me to the wonderful world of social media, which, in 0:44:37.440 --> 0:44:39.480 a weird way was like, Oh my god, why did 0:44:39.480 --> 0:44:42.680 I do that? She helped set up my Twitter account 0:44:43.640 --> 0:44:48.200 and she tweeted, now you something like now you all 0:44:48.239 --> 0:44:50.239 be nice to him, or I'm gonna get you or 0:44:50.280 --> 0:44:54.000 something funny. Remember that, And I remember you guys were like, 0:44:54.160 --> 0:44:56.560 I really don't know if you have the stomach to 0:44:56.640 --> 0:44:59.480 be but you guys loved it because you were young, 0:44:59.560 --> 0:45:01.200 and it was like and stand feedback and they were 0:45:01.280 --> 0:45:05.799 nice to you. Those first two seasons, I think we 0:45:05.800 --> 0:45:08.120 were the most tweeted about TV show in the world. Yeah, 0:45:09.440 --> 0:45:11.719 I'm sure. And then you know, I would start to 0:45:11.719 --> 0:45:14.919 read the tweets from the fans and I'm like, oh, 0:45:14.960 --> 0:45:17.359 they want X to be with why they want they 0:45:17.360 --> 0:45:19.600 don't they don't like what we're doing. Okay, well I 0:45:19.600 --> 0:45:23.279 will serve that. So then we became you know, then 0:45:23.800 --> 0:45:28.279 we started to service the relationships, probably not from an 0:45:28.400 --> 0:45:31.040 organic place, but from a fan place, which is the 0:45:31.160 --> 0:45:33.879 kiss of death, which I learned you can never do. 0:45:34.040 --> 0:45:37.160 And then you know, and now there's just rules in 0:45:37.200 --> 0:45:39.960 my life that I follow. I don't read reviews. I 0:45:40.040 --> 0:45:44.520 don't read what people say about the shows. I don't um. 0:45:45.040 --> 0:45:47.200 I don't let that into my head because I'm writing 0:45:47.200 --> 0:45:49.680 it first and foremost for me. And I remember we 0:45:49.680 --> 0:45:54.080 were encouraged by the company to have tweet parties and 0:45:54.200 --> 0:45:56.799 actively engage with the fans and try so that was 0:45:57.000 --> 0:46:00.520 that was a young learning curve for corporations too. Yeah, 0:46:00.560 --> 0:46:02.840 where they were like, yeah, like make the fans for 0:46:03.040 --> 0:46:07.240 like more people will watch. So yes, that probably was true. 0:46:07.280 --> 0:46:11.839 But yeah, I mean I had in the second year 0:46:11.880 --> 0:46:14.880 of the show, particularly it was dark, I had death threats. 0:46:15.520 --> 0:46:18.640 I had to get security. I had people showing up 0:46:18.640 --> 0:46:22.640 at my door. You guys, remember that the people showing 0:46:22.719 --> 0:46:26.440 up at the door upset about something that happened with 0:46:26.480 --> 0:46:31.440 Brittany and Santana. Somebody with a knife and the cops 0:46:31.480 --> 0:46:33.080 came and it was just it was just out of 0:46:33.080 --> 0:46:39.319 control and it was scary, and so I quickly learned, yeah, 0:46:39.440 --> 0:46:41.840 don't do that, and I don't do that anymore. And 0:46:41.920 --> 0:46:47.239 now my rule is Glee was written in a very 0:46:47.280 --> 0:46:50.160 place of love. You know, when people talk about their parents, 0:46:50.200 --> 0:46:52.959 their parents get divorced, but you were born of love 0:46:53.040 --> 0:46:55.920 when you were conceived. You should know even though mom 0:46:55.920 --> 0:46:57.920 and dad got a divorce, we loved you in that 0:46:57.960 --> 0:47:00.840 moment you were made. That's how I felt about Glee, 0:47:00.880 --> 0:47:03.880 because that's what it was, particularly us first two years. 0:47:04.440 --> 0:47:08.160 I'm until my life changed and yeah, and then you know, 0:47:08.560 --> 0:47:12.759 I couldn't. I was torn into many directions both from 0:47:12.760 --> 0:47:15.520 my family and my work obligations and what I was 0:47:15.640 --> 0:47:22.319 trying to accomplish. And I also felt driven to do 0:47:22.400 --> 0:47:26.000 more that put more things like whatever whatever you want 0:47:26.000 --> 0:47:28.840 to call the Madonna episode. It had a queer sensibility, 0:47:29.440 --> 0:47:32.160 it was and I wanted to do more things like that, 0:47:32.239 --> 0:47:35.920 for more more shows with more people. And so then 0:47:35.960 --> 0:47:38.279 that became a driving force in my life to sort 0:47:38.320 --> 0:47:40.040 of leave the world in a different place than it 0:47:40.080 --> 0:47:42.440 was when I came in. Again, the kid you had 0:47:42.480 --> 0:47:46.440 the madonnaa single ripped apart. So everything just changed and 0:47:46.560 --> 0:47:49.560 you got there. You know, I'm as busy and hard 0:47:49.600 --> 0:47:51.560 as it was, I guess saying yes all the time. 0:47:52.040 --> 0:47:55.120 But by doing that, you did build yourself into a 0:47:55.160 --> 0:47:59.160 position to get to put queer stories and queer media 0:47:59.520 --> 0:48:02.440 on so different networks with several different TV shows concurrently, 0:48:03.000 --> 0:48:06.239 So you know, you built this empire. You know, to 0:48:06.239 --> 0:48:09.040 circle back to what the kil Burnett Award is about, 0:48:09.040 --> 0:48:11.319 and what your speech was about was to put to 0:48:11.400 --> 0:48:16.000 give spotlight to underserved communities and groups, because you know 0:48:16.040 --> 0:48:19.319 what that personally feels like. And so I mean, it 0:48:19.360 --> 0:48:22.120 seems like with Glee you were able to see how 0:48:23.000 --> 0:48:25.440 hungry people were for that and how when given the 0:48:25.480 --> 0:48:29.040 opportunity to see themselves people appreciated it. And so then 0:48:29.080 --> 0:48:31.600 you got to I mean, and you did amazing things 0:48:31.600 --> 0:48:35.600 as well after or you made sure women in the workplace, 0:48:36.000 --> 0:48:38.400 women got to direct and got to shadow directors on 0:48:38.400 --> 0:48:43.760 your shows. Yeah, so behind the scenes, you immediately even 0:48:43.880 --> 0:48:46.000 you must have been exhausted, you had a family, you 0:48:46.040 --> 0:48:48.719 had eight billion shows, but you still were, you know, 0:48:48.800 --> 0:48:52.239 making time to make sure that other people. It was 0:48:52.239 --> 0:48:54.080 sort of like the Oprah model. If I come up, 0:48:54.080 --> 0:48:56.520 everybody else gets to come up to give you know, 0:48:56.560 --> 0:49:02.640 to help the people below come up to meet you. Otherwise, 0:49:02.960 --> 0:49:04.799 I mean I did feel I did try and do that, 0:49:04.920 --> 0:49:07.680 and I also wished, you know, I feel like coming 0:49:07.680 --> 0:49:10.120 on your show is great because it's like therapy sessions 0:49:10.120 --> 0:49:14.440 where we can really but I wish I wish some 0:49:14.520 --> 0:49:16.279 of it. I never would have changed some of it. 0:49:16.320 --> 0:49:19.840 I would have changed, like, um, a lot of stuff 0:49:19.880 --> 0:49:21.880 that was going on. It had become such a business 0:49:21.920 --> 0:49:24.000 and like you're talking about shooting in a garage with 0:49:24.040 --> 0:49:26.080 cars coming and no time to rehearse, and I'm like, 0:49:27.000 --> 0:49:29.160 how did that? How was that allowed to happen? I 0:49:29.600 --> 0:49:31.880 wasn't front and center at the show at that moment 0:49:31.880 --> 0:49:38.200 in time, and I don't think that should have happened. 0:49:38.239 --> 0:49:40.799 I think we were doing it. I wish that there 0:49:40.840 --> 0:49:45.759 had been more time and um, things put into like 0:49:45.800 --> 0:49:48.279 how are you feeling? How is your mental health? Like 0:49:48.320 --> 0:49:50.680 you said you had a moment Jen like, of course 0:49:50.719 --> 0:49:53.359 you did. We all did. But but but back then 0:49:53.400 --> 0:49:56.239 there was no conversation. You never could do that because 0:49:56.280 --> 0:49:59.960 then they'd be like, Okay, well, I remember hearing us 0:50:00.000 --> 0:50:02.560 story about a showrunner who the pressure was so bad 0:50:02.600 --> 0:50:05.320 that he went missing for three days and they found 0:50:05.400 --> 0:50:08.240 him in a car. He had had a nervous breakdown 0:50:08.280 --> 0:50:12.680 and he was in a car shaking uncontrollably. And I 0:50:13.200 --> 0:50:17.680 remember reading that and thinking I know that, feeling yeah, 0:50:17.719 --> 0:50:21.040 I really do get that. The pressure of, you know, 0:50:21.239 --> 0:50:23.720 show business, it's a show, but it's also a business 0:50:23.840 --> 0:50:28.120 was just really too much to take on. And it's 0:50:28.320 --> 0:50:30.760 I don't think there's any There's never been another show 0:50:30.800 --> 0:50:34.960 like Glee that was like this multiheaded hydra where you're 0:50:34.960 --> 0:50:37.600 a TV show, but you're also a stage show, and 0:50:37.640 --> 0:50:42.400 you're also a soundtrack business, and you're also a merchandise business, 0:50:42.480 --> 0:50:46.319 like and big in each of those departments, not just 0:50:46.360 --> 0:50:50.359 like phoning it in, big in every sector like that. Yes, 0:50:50.600 --> 0:50:52.640 And it got so nutty that at one point I 0:50:52.640 --> 0:50:54.960 got a call about doing a Glee Haunted House thing 0:50:55.000 --> 0:50:58.080 at Universal something for Halloween. And I was like, well, 0:50:58.160 --> 0:51:01.279 this this is really insane. The show has nothing to 0:51:01.400 --> 0:51:04.279 do and you want to make it a horror show. 0:51:04.280 --> 0:51:06.320 And then I thought, you know what, I should have 0:51:06.400 --> 0:51:09.160 done that, like, how fun for all of you guys 0:51:09.239 --> 0:51:12.120 to be amazing they wanted to do. It was around 0:51:12.120 --> 0:51:15.759 the time of the the the much maligned Heads, Will Rolls, 0:51:15.840 --> 0:51:23.320 Zombie Number Glee, Dead with Knives, and our I guess 0:51:23.440 --> 0:51:26.520 I don't know, but only this certain group of us 0:51:26.880 --> 0:51:29.279 who have been through that experience will ever know what 0:51:29.360 --> 0:51:32.600 it was like. And yeah, but also I would like 0:51:32.640 --> 0:51:35.200 to say about the Madonna thing, like I never had 0:51:35.239 --> 0:51:38.640 more fun ever doing any piece of work other than 0:51:38.680 --> 0:51:43.920 the pilot, I think for me and um, it was 0:51:44.040 --> 0:51:46.239 just such a joy and a privilege to be and 0:51:46.280 --> 0:51:48.040 it was a it was a privilege to do it, 0:51:48.440 --> 0:51:59.239 to make it. You know, Jenna and I talked about 0:51:59.280 --> 0:52:01.640 us crazy and big as that episode was when we 0:52:01.719 --> 0:52:04.640 tell people about how good you are as a director, 0:52:04.680 --> 0:52:09.719 because I think people you're a known media brand and personality, 0:52:09.760 --> 0:52:15.360 but as a director, you're so good. And there's that 0:52:15.480 --> 0:52:17.520 scene and as crazy as that episode was, there's a 0:52:17.560 --> 0:52:20.680 scene where it's Jenna and I talking at the piano 0:52:21.239 --> 0:52:24.759 after Larretie has said some very questionable showing a stick 0:52:24.960 --> 0:52:28.879 things to her and we walk in the choir room 0:52:29.239 --> 0:52:33.440 to block it, and you go, no, no, no, this 0:52:33.480 --> 0:52:35.360 doesn't work, because you know there was supposed I was 0:52:35.640 --> 0:52:38.600 to Lynn we were moving yeah, and you go, no, 0:52:38.640 --> 0:52:41.560 this isn't right. At all and you stop and you 0:52:41.560 --> 0:52:44.800 were just quiet for like twenty thirty seconds, like staring 0:52:44.800 --> 0:52:49.040 off to the distance, and you go, Okay, here's what 0:52:49.040 --> 0:52:51.480 we're going to do. And you took over the floor 0:52:51.760 --> 0:52:56.000 and you rewrote the scene in real time, and you go, Kevin, 0:52:56.040 --> 0:52:58.840 you're here, Jenna, you sit there and you're gonna say this. 0:52:58.880 --> 0:53:01.040 You're gonna say this, You're gonna that, You're gonna say that. 0:53:01.480 --> 0:53:03.440 It was the craziest thing I've ever seen. I do 0:53:03.560 --> 0:53:07.240 remember that we started doing it and then I remember 0:53:07.239 --> 0:53:09.759 everyone was like, oh, thank god, yeah, oh, the scene 0:53:09.880 --> 0:53:12.480 is great now. And it was so quiet. We were 0:53:12.560 --> 0:53:16.839 so silent, there was nothing else going on. And it 0:53:16.920 --> 0:53:20.719 was a real a really important learning moment for me, 0:53:21.480 --> 0:53:23.000 and getting to work with you to see how you 0:53:23.000 --> 0:53:26.160 worked that, and also getting to act and learning how 0:53:26.160 --> 0:53:29.520 to act better. And I think the brilliance of being 0:53:29.560 --> 0:53:31.239 able to think on your feet and rewrite a scene 0:53:31.280 --> 0:53:34.240 and make it even ten times better than it originally 0:53:34.280 --> 0:53:37.640 was supposed to be was remarkable. It's a really crazy 0:53:37.680 --> 0:53:39.919 thing to see. Yeah, well, I don't know I feel 0:53:39.960 --> 0:53:43.480 that about you know, I don't direct anymore, but I've 0:53:43.560 --> 0:53:47.360 kind of retired from that. But I did love it 0:53:47.360 --> 0:53:51.160 when I was doing it, and my rule about it 0:53:51.239 --> 0:53:56.240 was always you know that that phrase, if someone shows 0:53:56.400 --> 0:53:59.319 you who they are, believe them. And I feel that 0:53:59.400 --> 0:54:02.839 way about scenes, so you know, we can write it. 0:54:02.920 --> 0:54:05.640 And then I'm a collaborator with you guys, and I 0:54:05.680 --> 0:54:10.960 remember that you were really trying to pay tribute to 0:54:11.000 --> 0:54:15.560 the script and the script was wrong. So it was like, well, if, okay, 0:54:15.600 --> 0:54:18.040 this has now been revealed to us that this scene sucks, 0:54:18.120 --> 0:54:21.960 so what do we do? And we I do remember 0:54:22.000 --> 0:54:24.239 just sitting there and thinking, you know, you two are 0:54:24.280 --> 0:54:26.840 so talented that there's just too much in your way 0:54:27.239 --> 0:54:31.000 and what is really what is really the scene about? 0:54:31.120 --> 0:54:33.800 And when I do lectures or anything for young people, 0:54:34.520 --> 0:54:36.560 I would say, when you direct, you only need to 0:54:36.600 --> 0:54:38.880 know three things. You need to know how do you 0:54:38.920 --> 0:54:41.759 get into this scene, what's your first moment, what's your transition, 0:54:42.520 --> 0:54:44.360 how do you get out of the scene, what's the 0:54:44.440 --> 0:54:46.920 last beat? And the most important thing is the tone. 0:54:47.040 --> 0:54:49.879 What do you want to feel from this scene? And 0:54:49.920 --> 0:54:53.200 what the three of us came up with was a 0:54:53.280 --> 0:54:56.640 feeling and then it was just very boom boom boom 0:54:56.680 --> 0:54:58.760 bom boom, and it was it was and I always 0:54:58.800 --> 0:55:04.600 feel in service to that, and I also feel very 0:55:04.680 --> 0:55:09.920 in service to actors because I feel scripts are blueprints 0:55:10.239 --> 0:55:13.760 and sometimes it was something that you write is absolutely Oh, 0:55:13.800 --> 0:55:16.359 it's like building a house. This is perfect. But then 0:55:16.400 --> 0:55:18.439 sometimes you're making a room and you're like, this room 0:55:18.480 --> 0:55:22.480 is terrible. Why so it's in the architecture. You have 0:55:22.520 --> 0:55:24.120 to go back and do it. But I do remember 0:55:24.200 --> 0:55:29.560 that day. I also remember that day. You probably don't 0:55:29.560 --> 0:55:33.359 remember this, but it was raining so hard and that 0:55:33.400 --> 0:55:36.040 we had to do one takeover because that we had 0:55:36.040 --> 0:55:39.520 that crazy roof above the choir room and it was 0:55:39.520 --> 0:55:46.400 a sound thing. Yeah, so I remember thinking wow about that. 0:55:46.440 --> 0:55:48.800 I have such a memory of that moment in time. 0:55:48.920 --> 0:55:51.960 I also remember that I was smoking cigarettes that yes, 0:55:52.440 --> 0:55:54.719 and Zach Woodley and I would go between. That was 0:55:54.800 --> 0:55:57.000 my reward if I got a scene right, we'd take 0:55:57.200 --> 0:56:03.480 I called it smoga smoking in yoga. Yeah. But it 0:56:03.760 --> 0:56:06.319 was such a vivid time in my life and that 0:56:06.320 --> 0:56:12.359 that idea, and also just the craziness that I thought 0:56:12.360 --> 0:56:14.360 I could say this doesn't work, Okay, let's do it 0:56:14.400 --> 0:56:18.520 without calling the studio or people who would have proved 0:56:18.520 --> 0:56:20.799 the script, like the use of me to do it. 0:56:20.880 --> 0:56:22.719 But well, I mean they'd picked you up for a 0:56:22.760 --> 0:56:24.839 back nine and said we want more of you. So yeah, 0:56:24.880 --> 0:56:28.520 they did, and I felt very like I was just 0:56:28.600 --> 0:56:32.799 becoming who I was supposed to become after when I could, 0:56:32.920 --> 0:56:35.080 was just beginning to show people what I could do, 0:56:35.239 --> 0:56:37.399 as you two were, as the cast was, so it 0:56:37.440 --> 0:56:40.680 was all that show was the beginning for so many 0:56:40.760 --> 0:56:46.399 people and about so many things. Yeah, well I'm glad, 0:56:46.520 --> 0:56:48.759 I'm glad you liked my directing you guys, thank you? 0:56:48.840 --> 0:56:51.120 Oh yeah, now we did. Every time you would come in, 0:56:51.200 --> 0:56:54.960 it was like you knew exactly what you wanted. We 0:56:55.040 --> 0:56:58.000 made our days. It was clear it felt good when 0:56:58.000 --> 0:57:01.000 you walked away. I think as an actor a lot 0:57:01.040 --> 0:57:05.360 of the time like they're like they directors put so 0:57:05.400 --> 0:57:07.719 much trust than their actors, which is amazing, but there's 0:57:07.760 --> 0:57:10.080 also a sense of like leadership that has to be 0:57:10.440 --> 0:57:13.400 driving the ship. And like we knew if when you 0:57:13.440 --> 0:57:16.240 came in, we were like, this episode it's gonna be great. 0:57:16.360 --> 0:57:18.440 It's going to be cos if it's going to be streamlined, 0:57:18.520 --> 0:57:20.320 and I'm going to feel good walking away because we 0:57:20.400 --> 0:57:22.200 know you're going to get out of us what you 0:57:22.240 --> 0:57:24.480 want and like, you know, always be like Gena bigger, 0:57:24.520 --> 0:57:26.840 gena bigger the hair tip flips the things, and it's 0:57:26.960 --> 0:57:29.960 I look crazy, but it's funny, like it's it's what 0:57:30.080 --> 0:57:33.360 it's supposed to be, right, and that as an actor 0:57:33.480 --> 0:57:36.360 is always like God, it feels so good to walk 0:57:36.360 --> 0:57:39.120 away from something and feel good about your work. Yeah. 0:57:39.320 --> 0:57:41.640 I always tried to do on that show was to 0:57:44.800 --> 0:57:47.400 the idea that I would say more, bigger, more bigger, 0:57:47.480 --> 0:57:51.480 like some crazy fashion photographer. But I really wanted all 0:57:51.520 --> 0:57:54.920 of you, particularly in that first season, to show what 0:57:55.000 --> 0:57:59.000 you could do the most and not the least of you. Yeah. 0:57:59.000 --> 0:58:01.320 It didn't want you to feel edited, and I didn't 0:58:01.320 --> 0:58:03.400 want you to feel small, and I didn't want you 0:58:03.440 --> 0:58:09.040 to feel constricted. And I think you can feel that 0:58:09.160 --> 0:58:12.040 and that those first two seasons, it was people were 0:58:12.080 --> 0:58:16.280 allowed to be the best of you, the worst least 0:58:16.320 --> 0:58:20.520 of you. Yeah. You coming in after a couple episodes, 0:58:20.560 --> 0:58:23.880 you go, I'm over this nerdy thing. We gotta and 0:58:23.920 --> 0:58:26.000 you would push me to get out of this, like 0:58:26.120 --> 0:58:28.640 the nerdy thing. I was like, Okay, he's giving me permission. 0:58:28.640 --> 0:58:30.520 I guess I need to like, yeah, I can change 0:58:30.520 --> 0:58:33.200 it up, Okay, So like more important than even the 0:58:33.600 --> 0:58:38.280 making of that episode, for me was the camaraderie and 0:58:38.320 --> 0:58:40.920 the making of it. Like what I really really loved 0:58:40.960 --> 0:58:43.360 about that and every time I directed was you know, 0:58:43.440 --> 0:58:45.080 it was fun to do and I loved it. But 0:58:45.120 --> 0:58:47.600 I the thing that I treasure and will take to 0:58:47.720 --> 0:58:51.080 my grave that was it will make me emotional. Was 0:58:51.120 --> 0:58:54.080 like the moments, like when we were doing something nutty 0:58:54.160 --> 0:58:58.920 like that, and I remember after that rehearsal, it's a change, 0:58:58.600 --> 0:59:00.520 and you know then it took a while to get 0:59:00.520 --> 0:59:03.440 the lighting fixed and change the thing. And so we 0:59:03.480 --> 0:59:05.840 would just sit off in another room and those horrible 0:59:05.920 --> 0:59:08.439 director's chairs would throw our backs up and we would 0:59:08.440 --> 0:59:11.000 just talk and eat, and there was that weird craft 0:59:11.040 --> 0:59:15.360 service room and it was it was really a rainy 0:59:15.560 --> 0:59:18.680 season in LA that year, and I just remember we 0:59:18.680 --> 0:59:21.320 would all hang out and just talk and talk and 0:59:21.360 --> 0:59:24.560 talk and laugh, and I would see you guys do 0:59:24.680 --> 0:59:29.439 things in your real life, and I remember thinking, how 0:59:29.440 --> 0:59:32.560 funny you know you were, Kevin. So I remember saying, 0:59:32.560 --> 0:59:35.600 we'll just be more like that, or Jenna the same, 0:59:35.680 --> 0:59:37.920 just be more of the thing that makes you a 0:59:37.960 --> 0:59:42.200 sparkly person. And that would not have come unless we 0:59:42.200 --> 0:59:46.720 were all so close and hanging out and joking singing 0:59:47.040 --> 0:59:49.600 like I can remember you two also always knew what 0:59:49.640 --> 0:59:53.600 the the hot tunes worth the time finger on the pulse. 0:59:53.720 --> 0:59:56.120 You know, you're not the only tastemaker out I wasn't 0:59:56.200 --> 0:59:59.920 and I don't know how it runs. We would do that, 1:00:00.040 --> 1:00:02.439 um Amber and I would have a lot of fun 1:00:02.520 --> 1:00:04.120 with her teaching me how to do the runs. And 1:00:04.200 --> 1:00:06.400 also like I remember you guys turning me onto so 1:00:06.480 --> 1:00:10.240 much music. Yeah, it's like yeah, like I don't really 1:00:10.280 --> 1:00:13.520 think I was familiar with the artists known as Genuine 1:00:13.560 --> 1:00:17.440 and his Hip Pony and so you're welcome. We were 1:00:17.760 --> 1:00:21.280 thank you until we would be off camera You're like, hey, 1:00:21.400 --> 1:00:24.200 listen to this and I'm sorry. But some there were 1:00:24.600 --> 1:00:27.640 weren't people still having like Sony Walkman's then with the 1:00:28.040 --> 1:00:30.640 with the CDs in it and stuff, and like it 1:00:30.720 --> 1:00:32.439 was such a long time. They were like the little 1:00:32.680 --> 1:00:36.840 the little iPods. It was like without first generation Ipodsay iPods, 1:00:36.880 --> 1:00:38.880 Sony Walkmans. What can I say, I'm older than you? 1:00:41.440 --> 1:00:45.920 Really fun? Yeah, that was what all those Madonna stories, 1:00:45.920 --> 1:00:48.520 I had no idea. Did you have any This is 1:00:48.560 --> 1:00:50.200 the last time I will talk about her, But you 1:00:50.240 --> 1:00:54.320 have any other Madonna fun facts you want to know. No, 1:00:54.840 --> 1:00:56.840 did you have you seen her since? Like, have you 1:00:56.840 --> 1:00:59.560 seen her in person or talk to her since? Um? 1:00:59.600 --> 1:01:03.800 I had of Again, have you talked about did the 1:01:03.840 --> 1:01:10.320 episode come up at all? No? So far removed. Madonna 1:01:10.440 --> 1:01:14.720 is not someone whom I think looks towards the past, 1:01:15.120 --> 1:01:17.360 gat I mean, which is why her going on tour? 1:01:17.960 --> 1:01:21.560 All right? Right? Are you gonna go see it? Are 1:01:21.600 --> 1:01:24.240 you kidding? Of course? And I'm also gonna go to 1:01:24.280 --> 1:01:28.160 Taylor Swift And I'm I'm very excited about my my Beyonce. 1:01:28.400 --> 1:01:30.600 I mean, they're all going on tour. I'm going, I 1:01:30.720 --> 1:01:35.080 know together, that's gonna Beyonce together. I will pay for 1:01:35.120 --> 1:01:37.960 the tickets because I will die. I am so excited. 1:01:38.000 --> 1:01:39.280 I'm going to try to go as many times as 1:01:39.440 --> 1:01:43.480 I've seen her six times already. You've seen Beyonce six times? Yes, 1:01:43.520 --> 1:01:46.520 I've seen her six times. I went with Gwyneth Knew. 1:01:46.560 --> 1:01:49.520 I was so obsessed once and she brought me once 1:01:49.560 --> 1:01:51.120 and I heard he's seen the tour. I'm like, I'll 1:01:51.120 --> 1:01:53.440 go with you. And then she was late and I 1:01:53.480 --> 1:01:55.760 showed up to the suite and it was me and 1:01:55.880 --> 1:01:58.640 jay Z by ourselves for like twenty minutes, and I 1:01:58.640 --> 1:02:00.520 stood in a corner and didn't speak anyone because I 1:02:00.600 --> 1:02:03.800 was so scared. You were scared. Why He's so lovely, 1:02:03.960 --> 1:02:05.840 He's so nice, and I had met him before, but 1:02:05.880 --> 1:02:08.040 I just really felt like, I'm not supposed to be here. 1:02:08.640 --> 1:02:12.200 This is Beyonce's family's sweet. You know, she's another one. 1:02:12.360 --> 1:02:15.600 She was so Beyonce. She was so kind about the show. 1:02:16.440 --> 1:02:20.160 She gets permission for all of those songs. She was 1:02:20.200 --> 1:02:22.840 so supportive and sweet. And I had not met her. 1:02:24.000 --> 1:02:26.720 She's so nice, except I did run into her once, 1:02:26.720 --> 1:02:28.600 and like what happened was I was at I was 1:02:28.640 --> 1:02:32.680 in a doctor's office and they were like to get 1:02:32.720 --> 1:02:34.840 some sort of like vitamin shot, and they were like 1:02:34.960 --> 1:02:38.440 go down, turn left, and turn to the turn, and 1:02:38.480 --> 1:02:40.720 so I didn't know what I was doing, and it 1:02:40.840 --> 1:02:42.520 was like, you know, it was one of those places 1:02:42.520 --> 1:02:46.440 with hushed music and candles and everyone spoke like this. 1:02:47.080 --> 1:02:50.400 And I opened up a door and literally lit like 1:02:50.440 --> 1:02:54.360 an angel. Was Beyonce getting an ivy drip of vitamins. 1:02:54.640 --> 1:02:57.560 And I was so startled that I just turned the 1:02:57.600 --> 1:03:01.280 door and I'm like Hi. She's like HI, Like nice 1:03:01.320 --> 1:03:03.360 to meet you. She's like it's great to meet you. 1:03:03.400 --> 1:03:05.320 What are you here for I think I'm doing what 1:03:05.360 --> 1:03:09.800 you're doing. It's okay, great, and it was just you 1:03:09.800 --> 1:03:14.280 get to meet your idols, you know, and she and 1:03:14.400 --> 1:03:17.520 usually you know, the big ones are the nice ones. Yeah, 1:03:17.760 --> 1:03:21.400 you don't being a complete asshole? No, exactly. No. When 1:03:21.440 --> 1:03:24.880 she you know, she has a reputation with Madonna, I 1:03:24.920 --> 1:03:28.280 think of being, you know, tough, but I will say again, 1:03:29.160 --> 1:03:32.520 in the process of working with her, always the most kind, 1:03:32.680 --> 1:03:36.120 the most generous, really nice. And then I've had some fun, 1:03:36.320 --> 1:03:42.000 fun um moments with her that you know. Yeah, she's 1:03:42.080 --> 1:03:45.760 she's a force. Yeah, well, let's go see Beyonce together. 1:03:45.880 --> 1:03:50.440 I'll go to Taylor with you. I'll go to Taylor. Okay, great, 1:03:51.240 --> 1:03:53.200 what song do you want to hear the most of 1:03:53.280 --> 1:03:56.760 these concerts? I want to hear Renaissance from start to finish. 1:03:56.880 --> 1:04:01.280 That's all I want. That's what you're looking for. Yeah, mastermind, 1:04:01.600 --> 1:04:03.640 I want to hear Lavender Hayes. I want to hear 1:04:03.840 --> 1:04:05.600 I want to hear her whole Midnight album. I'm very 1:04:05.640 --> 1:04:08.880 excited about it, very I'm very excited about that Midnight's 1:04:08.880 --> 1:04:11.520 album too. I love it. I love her. Yeah, I 1:04:11.520 --> 1:04:15.240 think all of these women, you know, with what they're 1:04:15.240 --> 1:04:18.040 doing with their music and how they're you know, influencing 1:04:18.960 --> 1:04:24.320 women and gay people in other minority groups. It's incredible, Um, 1:04:24.520 --> 1:04:26.919 you know, for a long period of time, like they're 1:04:26.960 --> 1:04:30.280 not just flashes in the pan there. But how lucky 1:04:30.320 --> 1:04:32.600 that you guys get so many of them. You know, 1:04:32.800 --> 1:04:35.760 I had was Madonna, that was it. She was the 1:04:35.920 --> 1:04:40.680 only one, which makes her um yeah, what she had 1:04:40.720 --> 1:04:45.080 to do to right through the system and win and right. 1:04:46.920 --> 1:04:50.600 So that's what so our summer's planned apparently, Yeah, Taylor 1:04:50.720 --> 1:04:54.960 Swift and then we're doing Beyonce and then we'll do Maddonna. 1:04:55.480 --> 1:04:59.880 Yeah right. I'm really happy for us. This is really working. 1:05:00.640 --> 1:05:03.160 I have one last question for you guys, because since 1:05:03.360 --> 1:05:05.440 from from you know, I'm very proud of you that 1:05:05.520 --> 1:05:09.720 your your show you're doing is the cultural gatekeepers of Glee. 1:05:09.920 --> 1:05:12.440 So I think I've listened to them, and I love them, 1:05:12.440 --> 1:05:13.840 and I think what you do. What I love is 1:05:13.840 --> 1:05:17.040 you talk about the positive things about the show yeah, um, 1:05:17.240 --> 1:05:19.919 and the legacy of the show. But have you guys 1:05:20.000 --> 1:05:23.560 all as a cast internally, what are your feelings about 1:05:23.600 --> 1:05:27.440 a reboot like or because you know, what do you 1:05:27.440 --> 1:05:29.720 how do you what do you think about that should 1:05:29.800 --> 1:05:31.200 we do it or should we not do it? Or 1:05:31.240 --> 1:05:34.680 should should it be left alone? Why should ask you? Ryan? 1:05:34.720 --> 1:05:37.520 Are you toying with this? Are you playing with this 1:05:37.640 --> 1:05:40.320 in your head? Well? I get asked about it all 1:05:40.360 --> 1:05:42.840 the time. Do you want to do it? Everybody's been 1:05:42.880 --> 1:05:46.520 asking that now everybody wants to you know, it's an 1:05:46.520 --> 1:05:50.120 interesting thing, and um, I think what does that look 1:05:50.160 --> 1:05:52.960 like to you? I think is the biggest thing? You know? 1:05:53.440 --> 1:05:57.520 Is it is? I mean, it's it's a format that 1:05:57.560 --> 1:05:59.920 works in a way where you can take all new 1:06:00.120 --> 1:06:02.600 people in a different city, in a different state, you know, 1:06:02.680 --> 1:06:07.400 and show the underdogs and the outcasts and do the 1:06:07.440 --> 1:06:10.400 same thing. Is it bringing back all the old people 1:06:10.480 --> 1:06:13.880 who are teachers or something? I don't know. I think 1:06:13.880 --> 1:06:16.280 it depends on what it is. I think the legacy 1:06:17.600 --> 1:06:21.360 of the show. Now, what's tough about bringing shows back 1:06:21.560 --> 1:06:25.800 is does it feel like you're hurting what has already 1:06:25.800 --> 1:06:29.400 been accomplished or tarnishing whatever? But anything you do I 1:06:29.400 --> 1:06:33.080 think is great, So I don't you're the mastermind. As 1:06:33.120 --> 1:06:37.800 Taylor Swift said, Yeah, that's funny that they played that 1:06:37.840 --> 1:06:40.080 song when I was walking on stage to get that award, 1:06:40.120 --> 1:06:47.480 which I thought was absolutely hilarious. You know what they 1:06:47.480 --> 1:06:50.440 wanted to they wanted they wanted to hilariously. They wanted 1:06:50.480 --> 1:06:54.040 to do um walk, have me walk on. They wanted 1:06:54.040 --> 1:06:55.880 to play Don't rain on My Prey, And I was like, 1:06:56.000 --> 1:07:00.000 absolutely burst into gay flames. I can't have that happen. 1:07:00.040 --> 1:07:03.880 And so they did that as a joke, and I 1:07:03.920 --> 1:07:06.960 think that she cleared it and sweetly said yes. And 1:07:07.080 --> 1:07:10.400 so when I heard it, I was like, is this mastermind? 1:07:10.600 --> 1:07:12.280 You can see in my face? I was walking at 1:07:12.320 --> 1:07:13.920 under the stage where they thought was that they were 1:07:13.960 --> 1:07:16.640 making fun of me in a lovely way. But she 1:07:16.800 --> 1:07:20.320 was sweet to say yes and yeah, But I don't know. 1:07:20.360 --> 1:07:22.240 I'm of two minds. You know, first of all, you 1:07:22.280 --> 1:07:26.040 talk about they can't say anything worse than has already 1:07:26.080 --> 1:07:28.800 been said, so that's off the table. And it also 1:07:28.960 --> 1:07:30.760 was like the thing that I love about the show 1:07:30.800 --> 1:07:35.120 now is there are people watching it. They're you know, 1:07:35.160 --> 1:07:40.080 it's streaming everywhere, and there are people watching it. Young people, 1:07:40.360 --> 1:07:45.160 my children's age ten, eight nine, who have no knowledge 1:07:45.240 --> 1:07:48.280 at all of anything we all went through. They only 1:07:48.320 --> 1:07:54.680 see the very pure work. And somebody told me that 1:07:54.720 --> 1:08:00.760 their daughter last Halloween went as go Chier Madonna because 1:08:00.800 --> 1:08:04.040 she had watched the Glee episode of Madonna, and I thought, well, 1:08:04.040 --> 1:08:06.760 how amazing is that? So those are the things to 1:08:06.840 --> 1:08:09.200 think about, like it's the work that lasts and all. 1:08:09.360 --> 1:08:11.840 I never have believed that, by the way, but in 1:08:11.880 --> 1:08:14.960 this case, I do think it's true. Like it's it's 1:08:14.960 --> 1:08:17.439 a feeling and they can feel it and it teaches 1:08:17.520 --> 1:08:19.640 them about something, And part of me feels like, well, 1:08:19.640 --> 1:08:24.040 wouldn't it be great to do another run of that 1:08:24.080 --> 1:08:27.280 show and do a lot of other songs that artists 1:08:27.560 --> 1:08:30.439 pay tribute to things? And how fun would that be? Yeah? 1:08:30.479 --> 1:08:32.400 I mean, the show's been off what for eight years? 1:08:32.479 --> 1:08:36.200 There's so much more music too, and I'm like, oh 1:08:36.240 --> 1:08:37.760 my god, we would have done that in the day. 1:08:37.800 --> 1:08:39.360 There's just so many What do you think we would 1:08:39.400 --> 1:08:42.880 have done? Because I have my ideas, I know two 1:08:42.920 --> 1:08:46.040 things we would have done and would have been we 1:08:46.479 --> 1:08:52.200 I'm not so sure that would have been good. We 1:08:52.200 --> 1:08:56.479 would have done Hamilton, yes, is the school musical? Definitely 1:08:56.560 --> 1:09:01.439 Hamilton or Dear Evan Hansen. Um. We definitely would have 1:09:01.479 --> 1:09:05.799 done a Taylor uh tribute tribute and maybe a Beyonce 1:09:06.040 --> 1:09:08.280 tribute since we've done so much Beyonce but like a 1:09:08.320 --> 1:09:13.080 proper tribute. Um, we almost did a Taylor tribute, which 1:09:13.200 --> 1:09:15.160 was we had to change it because I couldn't get, 1:09:16.360 --> 1:09:21.200 you know, the permission. But remember when Chord had it 1:09:21.240 --> 1:09:24.240 was originally going to be he was going to form 1:09:24.240 --> 1:09:27.400 a band called the Taylor Swift Experience. That's right, Yes, 1:09:27.600 --> 1:09:30.000 that then became I couldn't get the rights to everything 1:09:30.000 --> 1:09:31.759 and do it in the way that I wanted. Then 1:09:31.840 --> 1:09:34.640 became the John Mayer Experience. John Mayer was like, I 1:09:34.680 --> 1:09:36.680 don't know if I want to do that yet. I 1:09:36.680 --> 1:09:39.880 don't even remember what did it end up being? Justin Bieber? 1:09:40.000 --> 1:09:44.960 Justin Bieber's right. It's also funny, is Chord is good 1:09:44.960 --> 1:09:47.880 friends with both of them John Mayer and Taylor spid 1:09:48.200 --> 1:09:52.200 So said yes, so it was kind of fun. Right. 1:09:52.840 --> 1:09:57.599 What what would we have done that wouldn't have been good? Right? Well, 1:09:57.760 --> 1:09:59.320 I mean we did we doubt I'm not that it 1:09:59.320 --> 1:10:01.320 would have been good. Would have been you know, we 1:10:01.400 --> 1:10:05.559 definitely would have done a Taylor Swift tribute, particularly now 1:10:05.600 --> 1:10:07.960 because you know the thing about those tribute episodes is 1:10:07.960 --> 1:10:11.080 there they were you have to have a sort of visual, 1:10:11.400 --> 1:10:17.360 iconic flair. Yeah, so, um right, I just I just 1:10:17.560 --> 1:10:20.679 know that Tina would have sung Lavender Hayes. I just God, 1:10:20.680 --> 1:10:24.080 bless you, let's do bring it back and I'm ready. 1:10:24.160 --> 1:10:27.000 And for Kevin, I would have had to have done 1:10:27.000 --> 1:10:32.120 a Beyonce tributal. That we did several Beyonce songs, I 1:10:32.120 --> 1:10:35.559 mean between Kevin and Namber were good. Yeah, I don't know. 1:10:35.800 --> 1:10:38.120 We probably would have done. The thing about the show 1:10:38.160 --> 1:10:40.600 that's so weird is you know I did my cultural 1:10:40.720 --> 1:10:45.920 things so um. The school musical was the Rocky Horror 1:10:45.920 --> 1:10:48.800 Picture Show. As a kid, I wanted to do Rocky 1:10:48.840 --> 1:10:51.759 Horror Picture Show. The very idea that we did something 1:10:51.760 --> 1:10:56.800 connected to rumors and Saturday Night fever. Your age were like, 1:10:56.880 --> 1:11:00.400 what is this? But the joy of that is like 1:11:00.479 --> 1:11:03.320 the Madonna episode when we did the Fleetwood Mac tribute. 1:11:03.400 --> 1:11:07.160 You know, that album relaunched on the charts and a 1:11:07.160 --> 1:11:10.080 whole new generation of people got to see it. So yep, yes, 1:11:10.200 --> 1:11:12.800 it was quite well, that's like the gift that keeps 1:11:12.800 --> 1:11:15.639 on giving even you know, like I remember for Journey 1:11:15.720 --> 1:11:19.240 like that was Don't Stop like was right behind us 1:11:19.320 --> 1:11:22.400 on the charts as well, when our Don't Stop was up, 1:11:22.560 --> 1:11:24.960 you know, at number one, And that was another thing 1:11:25.000 --> 1:11:26.400 I was told not to do. I mean, there were 1:11:26.400 --> 1:11:28.280 so many things I was told not to do, but 1:11:28.320 --> 1:11:30.240 that was one song people like, don't do that. The 1:11:30.240 --> 1:11:33.200 sopranos just did that I talked about. But he then 1:11:33.240 --> 1:11:36.320 showed up yep, right, and he was there and we 1:11:36.400 --> 1:11:41.559 got to meet him, and that a surreal special Yeah. Yeah, 1:11:41.560 --> 1:11:44.559 it's funny now because if you do look. Sometimes I 1:11:44.600 --> 1:11:47.639 don't read things, but people will send me, like fan 1:11:48.360 --> 1:11:52.760 site or whatever, roundups of like the seventy five best 1:11:52.800 --> 1:11:55.240 Glee songs ever, and then it's fun to click through 1:11:55.280 --> 1:11:57.680 them because they're just one person's opinion to see like, well, 1:11:57.720 --> 1:12:00.600 what's number what's in the top ten? Right? And it 1:12:00.640 --> 1:12:03.680 always moves, that always changes. It's never constant from year 1:12:03.760 --> 1:12:07.280 to year, for sure. And except don't stop believe that 1:12:07.320 --> 1:12:09.800 always this number one, because like, could you not do that? 1:12:10.080 --> 1:12:12.639 Right now? I don't know. The reboot is interesting. It's 1:12:12.640 --> 1:12:15.559 like there's like a feeling that's like I think a 1:12:15.560 --> 1:12:18.040 lot of people would do it and be a part 1:12:18.080 --> 1:12:21.920 of it. And what is it that we want to say? Right? 1:12:22.000 --> 1:12:25.479 What is it that people want to say after all 1:12:25.520 --> 1:12:30.360 this time? Which I think is important in thinking about it. 1:12:31.600 --> 1:12:33.880 If there were even an option, right, if there's something 1:12:33.880 --> 1:12:38.160 that you were thinking about doing, but like, yeah, it 1:12:38.160 --> 1:12:40.720 would be difficult. But if I did do it, you know, 1:12:40.760 --> 1:12:42.559 I would want to take it back to the feeling 1:12:42.840 --> 1:12:46.880 of right the first year, I don't think I would 1:12:46.920 --> 1:12:49.879 do you know, Outland just tributes right off the bat, 1:12:49.920 --> 1:12:53.160 although I thought what mister Shoe did or Jane's character 1:12:53.280 --> 1:12:56.040 Sue did as a learning curve, was like, well, that's 1:12:56.040 --> 1:12:59.160 a really good instruction. That's a good lesson for kids 1:12:59.160 --> 1:13:02.439 to like, that's great. Like so it was it was 1:13:02.479 --> 1:13:06.320 about something, right, so I could see doing it. It 1:13:06.320 --> 1:13:08.599 would It would. I don't know when or how or why, 1:13:08.720 --> 1:13:11.720 but no, for sure, everybody's asking about it. That was 1:13:11.800 --> 1:13:14.960 so funny because there's so many reboots out there. Party's cousin, 1:13:15.160 --> 1:13:19.880 you know, cousin. Do you too think that you've you've 1:13:19.960 --> 1:13:23.200 left Ohio? I would, first of all, I would pretend 1:13:23.240 --> 1:13:28.000 that the last episode, whatever happened, everybody was like not yeah, 1:13:28.080 --> 1:13:31.320 just yeah, it's dam it was a future dream. Do 1:13:31.320 --> 1:13:34.760 you two think that your characters are still in Ohio? No, 1:13:34.840 --> 1:13:37.120 I think we got I think Tina got out. Yeah, 1:13:37.120 --> 1:13:39.720 where did they go? Well, Tina and to Brown, So 1:13:39.800 --> 1:13:41.880 I think she got some You know, like she got 1:13:41.880 --> 1:13:45.120 a little excited and then she became some crazy CEO 1:13:45.240 --> 1:13:48.200 of some you know, startup company and yeah, you know, 1:13:49.280 --> 1:13:53.000 travels East West. And I think I would imagine that 1:13:53.040 --> 1:13:56.600 Tina had like had become like some sort of businesswoman 1:13:56.720 --> 1:14:01.320 tycoon like Bethany Franklo with her own like mart tales. 1:14:01.680 --> 1:14:07.240 Absolutely think that. Yeah, And I'm just going to say it. 1:14:07.280 --> 1:14:10.120 I think her company is called Sober Curious and it's 1:14:10.160 --> 1:14:14.040 just still a line of effervescent non alkohol ers. And 1:14:14.080 --> 1:14:18.479 I also think that Tina, who had so much style, 1:14:18.600 --> 1:14:21.160 like lives like a baller. And I think she's in 1:14:21.200 --> 1:14:26.320 real good shape. Oh yeah, absolutely, Architectural Digest every other month, 1:14:26.640 --> 1:14:28.840 and and she looks back on that time when she 1:14:29.120 --> 1:14:31.599 had a goth phase. I remember that goth phase. I 1:14:31.600 --> 1:14:35.760 had what I did kill it my steampunk. Yeah. And 1:14:35.920 --> 1:14:39.080 I think I think Artie is in the music business. Yes, 1:14:40.080 --> 1:14:42.400 I think, yeah, he's either like an executive in the 1:14:42.400 --> 1:14:45.160 film or music business. I think for sure he I 1:14:45.160 --> 1:14:48.000 don't know if you ask me these questions, I'm like, 1:14:48.400 --> 1:14:53.120 why do I feel he lives in Miami. I would 1:14:53.120 --> 1:14:57.280 like to see that as Miami. I think there's some 1:14:57.560 --> 1:15:00.519 Latin music influence that you saw a moment and you 1:15:00.560 --> 1:15:03.479 went and you and you're connected to Ricky Martin and 1:15:03.800 --> 1:15:07.519 something's happening. I already signed Bad Bunny, already signed Bad Bunny. 1:15:07.560 --> 1:15:10.639 That okay, but happen that's great? God, are you talking 1:15:10.640 --> 1:15:12.600 about it? Like, oh yeah, Ricky Martin was in the 1:15:12.640 --> 1:15:16.519 show on and on and on, great wonderful people, and 1:15:16.600 --> 1:15:19.800 yeah you nailed it. Oh man, thanks for spending so 1:15:19.880 --> 1:15:21.960 much time with us. Yes, of course I'd love to 1:15:22.080 --> 1:15:24.160 what am I coming back? What episode was the next 1:15:24.200 --> 1:15:29.200 one to tear apart and discuss and break down. I 1:15:29.200 --> 1:15:31.160 think the guy, I think the Gaga one would be 1:15:31.280 --> 1:15:34.240 very very interested to talk to about how that came 1:15:34.280 --> 1:15:37.400 to be. Yes, let's talk Gaga. What are the other 1:15:37.400 --> 1:15:41.280 big ones in season two coming? Rocky Horror, love to 1:15:41.320 --> 1:15:46.519 talk about Bert. Let's see Sylvester shuffle. I mean that 1:15:46.600 --> 1:15:50.160 was crazy the super Bowl episode. Um, blame it on 1:15:50.160 --> 1:15:54.719 the alcohol. Oops. I love that one. Born this Way 1:15:54.920 --> 1:15:57.760 was the Gaga one. That sounds fun. Rumors is right 1:15:57.800 --> 1:16:00.160 after that we can do maybe we can do back 1:16:00.200 --> 1:16:03.280 to back, back to mac. We'll do a Born this 1:16:03.320 --> 1:16:05.800 Way in rumors that's eighteen and nineteen. We also have 1:16:05.840 --> 1:16:08.919 some fan questions that we can ask you then too. Okay, 1:16:08.960 --> 1:16:10.679 this is the this is the end, the fan questions. 1:16:10.680 --> 1:16:13.040 I'm ready, Oh do you want to do some fan questions? 1:16:13.280 --> 1:16:16.200 Do it hit me great? What was the hardest character 1:16:16.280 --> 1:16:20.160 to write? The hardest character to write was Sue, But 1:16:20.240 --> 1:16:22.920 that was Ian Brennan's problem because it was just it 1:16:23.000 --> 1:16:27.559 was so written in a from his brain context, and 1:16:27.920 --> 1:16:31.320 I was always so terrified to touch anything because run 1:16:31.400 --> 1:16:33.880 on sentences, have to run on sentences, and then you'd 1:16:34.120 --> 1:16:37.920 you'd see Jane do it and you'd be like, oh God, well, 1:16:37.960 --> 1:16:40.840 of course that was that was the hardest one to write. Um. 1:16:42.400 --> 1:16:44.720 I also think Mister Shoe was hard to write. I 1:16:44.720 --> 1:16:46.640 think that I think that mister Shoe has gotten a 1:16:46.680 --> 1:16:51.320 bad rap um literally, and I think that it was 1:16:51.600 --> 1:16:56.040 It was hard to be the center of force of 1:16:56.080 --> 1:16:59.000 a show where you're the moral authority, and sometimes that 1:16:59.080 --> 1:17:02.080 means that the people are around you were more sparkly 1:17:02.160 --> 1:17:03.840 and you have to be. But Matt did a great 1:17:03.880 --> 1:17:07.760 job not doing that. M was Jesse Saint James's name, 1:17:07.920 --> 1:17:12.479 Jesse Saint James, so Corey could sing Jesse's Girl great. 1:17:12.720 --> 1:17:14.960 A lot of people ask that, and I mean we 1:17:15.080 --> 1:17:18.200 knew Jonathan. I had been friends with Jonathan and Leah, 1:17:18.280 --> 1:17:20.920 and when we decided to come on and we were 1:17:20.960 --> 1:17:22.880 going to do that thing, we were talking about his 1:17:23.120 --> 1:17:25.640 name and I'm like, well, obviously it has to be 1:17:25.760 --> 1:17:30.680 Jesse so that Corey can sing that song. So yes, iconic. Um, 1:17:30.760 --> 1:17:33.080 if you could go back and change everybody asked this, 1:17:33.200 --> 1:17:35.320 if you could go back and change any storyline from 1:17:35.320 --> 1:17:39.800 the show, what would it be. I wouldn't change anything. Um, 1:17:39.840 --> 1:17:45.599 I would Um, There's nothing I would change there, you know, 1:17:45.800 --> 1:17:51.160 and no, nothing great. Did an actor ever not like 1:17:51.360 --> 1:18:00.360 a storyline and ask you to change it? Yes? Did 1:18:00.439 --> 1:18:03.720 you change it? Yeah? I think so. I mean I 1:18:03.760 --> 1:18:06.880 still do that to this day. I mean sometimes it 1:18:07.000 --> 1:18:10.400 got it got a little nuttie there. But if it 1:18:10.520 --> 1:18:13.519 was a logical reason, like like we talked about how 1:18:13.520 --> 1:18:15.479 I direct, like, I always feel like, well, tell me 1:18:15.520 --> 1:18:18.439 what you don't like. Most of you know this character 1:18:18.560 --> 1:18:20.599 better than I do in some regards, so I would 1:18:21.120 --> 1:18:23.160 There would always be moments. The one thing about the 1:18:23.200 --> 1:18:26.519 Glee cast for the most part is people were like, oh, 1:18:26.560 --> 1:18:29.439 you you want me to do that? Okay, here we go, 1:18:29.520 --> 1:18:31.439 and then you would just try it. Because some of 1:18:31.479 --> 1:18:37.040 it was so crazy and nuttie, yes and yeah, true 1:18:37.120 --> 1:18:39.960 or false? Fun Due for two was a fan idea. 1:18:40.200 --> 1:18:43.720 You'd have to ask Ian that because he he was 1:18:43.800 --> 1:18:46.000 connected to that in a way that I wasn't. But 1:18:46.040 --> 1:18:50.120 as soon as he told me about it, I remember saying, yes, 1:18:50.240 --> 1:18:54.479 we're doing fun du for two. What would happen if 1:18:54.479 --> 1:18:57.800 one of the actors got sick and couldn't record the song? 1:18:58.400 --> 1:19:00.400 Did that ever get up the chain to you? Did 1:19:00.400 --> 1:19:02.920 you ever have yeah, because you know, we'd have to 1:19:02.960 --> 1:19:05.439 move scenes around, and it was always you know, we'll 1:19:05.479 --> 1:19:09.120 get better and we're not doing it and right, yeah, right, 1:19:10.080 --> 1:19:13.799 there's very rare times that, like Kevin that I remember, 1:19:13.960 --> 1:19:16.880 like if you were sick, we would just do it 1:19:16.920 --> 1:19:19.000 and we just record it, and they'd like make us 1:19:19.000 --> 1:19:21.479 sound good and we'd be like, okay, keep moving. I 1:19:21.479 --> 1:19:24.720 mean I directed a couple of episodes. I was sick, 1:19:24.760 --> 1:19:26.400 I had a fever, and you just did it. And 1:19:26.400 --> 1:19:28.240 then there's last one, last one. It's not a question. 1:19:28.439 --> 1:19:30.680 She says. I love you, Ryan Murphy, thank you for 1:19:30.720 --> 1:19:33.360 being a genius and sharing your mind with us. Mister 1:19:33.640 --> 1:19:38.479 minds so well, thank you. I always love to hear 1:19:38.560 --> 1:19:41.840 nice things, and I'm so grateful to be able to 1:19:41.920 --> 1:19:44.559 keep talking about this great experience we had. So thank 1:19:44.560 --> 1:19:47.320 you too, Ryan, Thank you so so much. Yeah, it's 1:19:47.400 --> 1:19:49.120 so good to see you, and I'll see you a 1:19:49.120 --> 1:19:51.280 lot this summer at all of our concert tours. I 1:19:51.320 --> 1:19:54.840 can't wait our tour, our tour as the beginning. I'm 1:19:54.840 --> 1:19:58.040 gonna be working on my outfit now. Thanks guys, Thanks Ran, 1:19:59.360 --> 1:20:04.559 love you bye. Wow wow wow wow. Yeah you said 1:20:04.560 --> 1:20:07.920 earlier like we could talk forever, like even we know 1:20:08.320 --> 1:20:15.680 she's a busy lady and yet she's um. I you know, 1:20:15.800 --> 1:20:18.280 I wish we could to Ryan every week. I know 1:20:18.400 --> 1:20:20.920 he should be the third the third host of I mean, 1:20:21.000 --> 1:20:26.719 he is essentially sorry. Yeah, um, thank you again Ryan 1:20:26.840 --> 1:20:28.760 for doing this, Thank you all for listening. We hope 1:20:28.760 --> 1:20:32.320 you guys enjoyed it. Apparently we'll have Ryan back again 1:20:32.680 --> 1:20:35.479 for season two at some point. I love that for us. 1:20:35.520 --> 1:20:38.559 Talk about rumors, let's talk about lady God, let's talk 1:20:38.560 --> 1:20:40.679 about all of it. Yeah, thanks for listening. You guys 1:20:40.720 --> 1:20:42.479 come back next week to recap with us, and we'll 1:20:42.479 --> 1:20:46.000 have another lovely guest. And that's what you were in 1:20:46.040 --> 1:20:49.760 the missed. Thanks for listening and follow us on Instagram 1:20:50.080 --> 1:20:52.439 at and that's what you really miss POD. Make sure 1:20:52.479 --> 1:20:54.559 to write us a review and leave us five stars. 1:20:54.800 --> 1:20:55.479 See you next time.