Speaker 1: And that's what you really missed With Jenna and Kevin
Speaker 1: an iHeartRadio Podcast, Welcome too, and that's what you really missed.
Speaker 1: I'm Jenna, I'm Kevin, and today we are joined by
Speaker 1: the mastermind of Glee again, Ryan Murphy. We just can't
Speaker 1: keep him away. He keeps coming back. Goodness, thank goodness.
Speaker 1: I every time Ryan comes on, like I talked about,
Speaker 1: like every time he's been on, you know, once before,
Speaker 1: but it feels like a lifetime when we talk to him.
Speaker 1: It feels like we like it fills up this like
Speaker 1: crazy bowl and overflows and you get so much information
Speaker 1: that you didn't know. We talk about a reboot, We
Speaker 1: talked about his Baby Passion episode Madonna, which kind of
Speaker 1: changed the course of Glee forever in many of our
Speaker 1: minds and hopefully you're and also the how those things
Speaker 1: logistically on like a business side work, like how do
Speaker 1: you get the rights to doing whatever you want with
Speaker 1: Madonna's music? That's absolutely crazy? And did Ryan have to
Speaker 1: bang Madonna? Did he? Does Ryan beg anyone? Now we'll
Speaker 1: find out. Enjoyed this conversation. We could talk to him
Speaker 1: for hours and hours. Brian came on again and chatted
Speaker 1: with us. Thank you, Ryan, and we hope you enjoy
Speaker 1: this conversation again with the one and only Ryan Murphy.
Speaker 1: Thank you for doing this again. I know it's good
Speaker 1: to see you. Good to see you, guys. I have
Speaker 1: to do this one because it was my my big
Speaker 1: directorial thing that I loved doing that first season, other
Speaker 1: than the pilot. So before we get into Madonna, congrats
Speaker 1: on the Carol Burnette Award. That was a beautiful, beautiful
Speaker 1: thank you. It was an hour to do and it
Speaker 1: was an honor to be a part of some clips
Speaker 1: and that tribute. You're welcome. That's what's so crazy is
Speaker 1: you know, you're sitting there and I wouldn't say I'm young,
Speaker 1: but I'm relatively on the young side to get some
Speaker 1: sort of lifetime achievement awards. So you're sitting in here,
Speaker 1: like for so much of it. When I was looking
Speaker 1: at it and watching it for the first time, I
Speaker 1: was just like, I had to fight, like to get
Speaker 1: this stuff on the air. So much of it was
Speaker 1: a battle, and then halfway through I'm like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: then it got easier right around here, and I was overwhelming,
Speaker 1: and I had taken a clear in d that morning,
Speaker 1: so when I got up to speak after talking like this,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, this could go so wrong.
Speaker 1: I got through it. I got through it. I did
Speaker 1: my breathing, and I got through it. My beautiful speech.
Speaker 1: It was a great speech. Yeah, it's beautiful. It made
Speaker 1: us think of when we went to the Golden Globes
Speaker 1: for the first time, and one after what half the
Speaker 1: first season had aired. This seems absurd. Did you think
Speaker 1: we were going to win? You know, that was a
Speaker 1: really interesting time where broadcast TV hit some real oomp,
Speaker 1: you know, and I remember going in and I didn't
Speaker 1: really care because I liked my clothes so well. I
Speaker 1: was on the Shevan sheet talks that I've loved, and
Speaker 1: I remember people saying it was between us and Modern Family.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, that was like, you know, those were
Speaker 1: the two big broadcast juggernauts, and Dana Walden, who I'm
Speaker 1: very close with, those were both of her shows, so
Speaker 1: I knew she'd have a good night either way. But
Speaker 1: I wasn't really surprised, I guess about the first year
Speaker 1: because it had become such a cultural juggernaut at that point.
Speaker 1: I was surprised the next year when we did the
Speaker 1: back to back. That was surprising to me. But I
Speaker 1: was shooting the Madonna episode right around the time of
Speaker 1: the Golden Globes, so I remember it was just such
Speaker 1: a you know, a big moment for you, for you
Speaker 1: guys and for the show, and it really had taken off.
Speaker 1: It was nutty. Yeah. Did you feel sort of vindicated
Speaker 1: winning because you know the show Convincing the network in
Speaker 1: the studio to actually make the show in the first
Speaker 1: place is sort of like a thing. And then you
Speaker 1: win this award? What happens? Then the show's a juggernaut.
Speaker 1: You win Best Comedy and then you're getting picked up
Speaker 1: for the back nine. What does that whole since this
Speaker 1: has look like on your end of it, Oh gosh, um, well,
Speaker 1: I had one. It wasn't my first trip to the rodeo.
Speaker 1: You know, that's been there before with Nicktuck before. I
Speaker 1: think for me that period of time, there were so
Speaker 1: many people who did support the show against a huge
Speaker 1: group of people at the network that did not want
Speaker 1: it to go forward. But Dana really fought for it,
Speaker 1: so I felt she was very vindicated. I have a
Speaker 1: theory about awards, which is, you know, if you get
Speaker 1: nominated for award much More important than the win is
Speaker 1: the fact that you probably can stay on the air
Speaker 1: now for five years. That's kind of how it works
Speaker 1: because once you get in that rarefied air win loser draw,
Speaker 1: it's a sign that the show is popular or critically loved,
Speaker 1: and then you get a future. So for me getting
Speaker 1: nominated and then winning with a musical, I was like, well,
Speaker 1: this has this can go four or five seasons, which
Speaker 1: it did, and that's what the win was, more than
Speaker 1: the actual trophy. But I remember the thing I remember
Speaker 1: the most is the win. I remember thinking Barbara streisand
Speaker 1: in some bizarre way, it was kind of an out
Speaker 1: of body experience. And to be quite blunt, we were
Speaker 1: all incredibly drunk in that room youtubecluded I remember, And
Speaker 1: then I remember what I really remember was in that
Speaker 1: still exists, was you know, you win, and you could
Speaker 1: tell the room was really rooting for us because of
Speaker 1: the musical theater thing. And then we all went backstage
Speaker 1: and I remember that incredible photograph, yes, of all of
Speaker 1: you guys and Brad and I and maybe Brad wasn't there,
Speaker 1: ian Um reaching for the statue and I think somebody
Speaker 1: was whoever was behind me was was tickling me. Um,
Speaker 1: so I had I smiled unexpectedly when the photograph was taken,
Speaker 1: but um, yeah, I have fun memories of that unexpected
Speaker 1: it was. Yes, yeah, there was a lot of joy
Speaker 1: that night. There was a lot of joy, and there
Speaker 1: was a lot of joy in that whole period of
Speaker 1: the show, which I love and remember. Finally, do you
Speaker 1: want to talk about about some Madonna? I mean I
Speaker 1: want to talk about some season one stuff as well,
Speaker 1: but I think Madonna is like the Mecca. Tell us
Speaker 1: about the the idea for the first tribute episode and
Speaker 1: was it not even the succession like a planned was
Speaker 1: it just a Madonna episode that was kind of on
Speaker 1: the forefront of your mind? How did that kind of
Speaker 1: what was what was that like? You know what was interesting?
Speaker 1: Because there was two things about that, which was you know,
Speaker 1: we made as we talked about the first chunk of
Speaker 1: that show in a real bubble. The pilot it aired
Speaker 1: in May, did okay? Was on after the American Idol
Speaker 1: finale that I pushed for It did okay, and we
Speaker 1: made them and we didn't have the back half picked up.
Speaker 1: And then I went off to Rome with Julia Roberts, right,
Speaker 1: So I was off making Eat, Pray, Love with Julia,
Speaker 1: and I was all flying oh over the world, and
Speaker 1: I'm not someone who does well with that, so draftling.
Speaker 1: But she and I had a great time, and Cass
Speaker 1: was great and Billy Crude was great. We just had
Speaker 1: a ball and you know, so it was interesting for
Speaker 1: me that it started to air and I was not
Speaker 1: in the country. I was in Rome, and I will
Speaker 1: never forget it. Like, after the second episode aired, it
Speaker 1: did well, and then I think it was after the
Speaker 1: Christian Channa with the Roads Not Traveled episode, which was
Speaker 1: three I think, or was it four. It was in
Speaker 1: that group time. I got a call from Jennifer Sulky,
Speaker 1: who now runs Amazon, and she said, I just got
Speaker 1: the ratings in for that episode, and you're not going
Speaker 1: to believe how big they are. Something is happening. It's
Speaker 1: a big hit. And it kept growing every week, which
Speaker 1: is a real sign. And so I wasn't there. And
Speaker 1: you know, this was really before the Internet and before
Speaker 1: social media where you could log in, so it was
Speaker 1: all happening in a vacuum, and I never really read reviews,
Speaker 1: so I didn't get sent that packet. So they called
Speaker 1: me when by the time I got to India. They
Speaker 1: called where No, Yeah, India, they called and picked up
Speaker 1: the back half and we had to start writing, you know,
Speaker 1: because we had to start shooting because they were really
Speaker 1: wanted it to go on the air quickly. And we
Speaker 1: remember what happened. But I remember getting a call from
Speaker 1: I think it was Peter Lagori or Kevin Reilly or
Speaker 1: somebody saying me saying, well, what are you what are
Speaker 1: you interested in for the rest of the show, And
Speaker 1: he said something like, I really want a lot of
Speaker 1: you in there. I want I want a lot of you.
Speaker 1: Because at that point I was picking all the songs. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I did for several seasons, and I thought, okay, well,
Speaker 1: and I thought, well, what do I want to do? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Who do I want to pay tribute to? And it
Speaker 1: wasn't even the idea that I wanted to do a
Speaker 1: whole episode, but I thought, well, I want to. I
Speaker 1: want to. I want to do some more Madonna a
Speaker 1: because she meant so much to me coming up, you know,
Speaker 1: and I have a funny story about that. And then
Speaker 1: also because I had worked with her and I thought
Speaker 1: it would be impossible to do and I like doing
Speaker 1: things that are scary, so um, That's how that started.
Speaker 1: And I do think that that episode changed the show
Speaker 1: hugely because before I remember one review that I read
Speaker 1: very early on in the run of Glee was I
Speaker 1: think like a duets episode and it was about just
Speaker 1: very simple staging and two people singing songs to each
Speaker 1: other in a choir room, and someone like I think
Speaker 1: it was Matt Rouch just wrote and said, why can't
Speaker 1: all the episodes be like this? Meaning simple, nice, quiet?
Speaker 1: But that was never what the show was about. I
Speaker 1: was always shocked that people never understood the anarchy of
Speaker 1: the show. And then it truly was a satire. I
Speaker 1: mean it struck me once I got deeper into what
Speaker 1: people were thinking of it, because I had to ask.
Speaker 1: I was like, so people didn't have trouble with the
Speaker 1: Susie Pepper story, and people didn't have trouble with the
Speaker 1: ejaculation and the hot tub story. No, it was always
Speaker 1: very subversive and Ian and Brad and I really wrote
Speaker 1: it as a satire. That's what it was. Yeah, long
Speaker 1: story short, I called up Brad and Ian and I said, Okay,
Speaker 1: we have to get we have to get writing. The
Speaker 1: good newses were picked up. The bad news is I'm
Speaker 1: in Bali and you have to come over to be
Speaker 1: with me and Bali and write these episodes. Y Ian
Speaker 1: was like great, and Brad was like, um, I have children,
Speaker 1: and I said, well, I don't know what else to do.
Speaker 1: There was no zooms, There was nothing we tried doing
Speaker 1: and it wasn't working. And all of us had always
Speaker 1: done the episodes together. So Brad made it work and
Speaker 1: they flew over to m Bali and the worst places
Speaker 1: to have to go work there were, you know Julia,
Speaker 1: I remember we were under my days off, we would
Speaker 1: just be sequestered in a hotel room overlooking a beautiful
Speaker 1: beach and Julia Roberts would drop off snacks. And I
Speaker 1: was literally trying to teach Brad and Ian about Madonna
Speaker 1: because they were straight and they really did not know.
Speaker 1: I think I think I played that name that tune
Speaker 1: thing once with Brad and I would play a song
Speaker 1: and he would be like, like a virgin, but no,
Speaker 1: this is material girl. So it was a learning curve.
Speaker 1: But I showed was that because for me, I was
Speaker 1: an underdog as a kid, and I was an underdog
Speaker 1: growing up. And there was a seminal moment for me
Speaker 1: where I went to a college party my freshman year,
Speaker 1: and it was at some dude's house. It was kind
Speaker 1: of like a frat group, and there were a lot
Speaker 1: of women there are young women, and there was a
Speaker 1: couple of gay guys there, and all these straight dudes
Speaker 1: holding up the wall, you know, just talking, and I
Speaker 1: really think they were playing like Black Sabbath or something.
Speaker 1: It was really bad. And I had a Madonna cassette
Speaker 1: in my car and I'm ready to got it ready,
Speaker 1: and I was just like, well, let's get this party started.
Speaker 1: So I put it on and I put on dress
Speaker 1: you Up. And the next thing I know, everyone was
Speaker 1: on the dance floor and it really changed the room.
Speaker 1: And this one on for an hour, and then finally
Speaker 1: the straight guy took out the cassette and ripped it.
Speaker 1: He broke it because we had hijacked his party. And
Speaker 1: I thought, oh, that's a real memorable feeling for me
Speaker 1: that I know well, being a gay guy moving in
Speaker 1: the world. And I never forgot that moment of what
Speaker 1: she meant to a group of people who could come
Speaker 1: together who all kind of felt like underdogs or minorities
Speaker 1: or outcasts. That's really how that episode started. But the
Speaker 1: other thing that changed the show at that point. Once
Speaker 1: we made it, it went from being a show that
Speaker 1: was kind of a quiet, lovely little satire to a
Speaker 1: true spectacle, you know, to a true pop culture thing
Speaker 1: where we really started to pay a lot more attention
Speaker 1: to pop culture things and movements and people. But I remember,
Speaker 1: I just remember that that episode is I think when
Speaker 1: I changed the show, changed people's perception of the show changed.
Speaker 1: It was an interesting moment in the history of a show.
Speaker 1: And if you look back on it, for better or
Speaker 1: for worse, that is the episode you know now, I
Speaker 1: think that I probably would not have done something so big.
Speaker 1: I probably would have kept it small and I would
Speaker 1: have kept it more about ordinary kids in ordinary circumstances.
Speaker 1: But I was very proud of that episode. I mean,
Speaker 1: watching it back, it's you can tell the difference of
Speaker 1: when we get to that episode, when we get to
Speaker 1: the back nine, all of a sudden, there is this
Speaker 1: Shakey's shift. But that episode is phenomenal, is good, so good,
Speaker 1: and you all those things that you were just talking about.
Speaker 1: The entire episode feels like that feeling of that straight
Speaker 1: kid tearing up that cassette and having the juxtaposition of
Speaker 1: it meaning so much to one group of people than
Speaker 1: having this other group completely not get it and fight
Speaker 1: against it because other people are enjoying it, right, and
Speaker 1: you feel that do the whole thing. I mean it
Speaker 1: kind of mirrors like the Actuality Too, which you directed,
Speaker 1: which we just watched as well. It feels similar. Yes, wow,
Speaker 1: it's all about the Gagay thing happened because of you guys,
Speaker 1: because and started a really wonderful relationship that I have
Speaker 1: with her to this day. But I remember there was
Speaker 1: a real generational divide between us. You guys were young
Speaker 1: and very current, and you were the first person to
Speaker 1: talk to me about Twitter, the first person to talk
Speaker 1: about Lady Gaga. You had been on some press tour.
Speaker 1: I think she had been there or you were we
Speaker 1: were on an MTV show with her, But you talked
Speaker 1: about her and how unique and strange, and I remember
Speaker 1: Kevin saying, I think you would like her. She's very
Speaker 1: unusual or something. Well yeah, yeah, so, but in that
Speaker 1: she was wonderful. But the thing about the tribute episodes
Speaker 1: were interesting because they did have a life of their own.
Speaker 1: And for me, I will tell you, like, the most
Speaker 1: validating thing was from the kid who had his Madonna
Speaker 1: because set ripped out by the straight bro. Then to
Speaker 1: direct that episode, and then for it to be such
Speaker 1: a highly rated episode, and then for I think the
Speaker 1: album hit number one, the Madonna album that we did
Speaker 1: that accompanied the episode. Yeah, it was just very sort
Speaker 1: of a big full circle moment for me where I
Speaker 1: also love moments where I get to say to people
Speaker 1: who I loved, like Madonna or Barbra Streisan or Stevie
Speaker 1: Nicks or on and on and on Gaga, like just
Speaker 1: to say thank you. You know, I'm a fan and
Speaker 1: I always did that show specifically the music from a
Speaker 1: place of fandom. But you said it was it felt impossible,
Speaker 1: like Madonna felt impossible? What about it was so scary
Speaker 1: to you? Because for us, like you know, and to
Speaker 1: your credit, like we didn't feel that fear, Like we
Speaker 1: just felt like, okay, right, as good as we're doing this,
Speaker 1: like this is awesome. We don't know behind the scenes
Speaker 1: of how do you get her to agree, how do
Speaker 1: you get the catalog? And then how right? Well I
Speaker 1: had worked with her before, which is a great story,
Speaker 1: which is my beginning of my career. Was Madonna? Really
Speaker 1: I had just sold a script to Steven Spielberg called
Speaker 1: why can't I be Audrey? Hepburn. That was the first
Speaker 1: script I ever wrote, really and he bought it, which
Speaker 1: you know, and then I was thrust into this on
Speaker 1: the cover of the Trades and all this stuff, and
Speaker 1: I would have these amazing weekly tutorials with Steven Spielberg
Speaker 1: about this is how you write a script and you
Speaker 1: should be thinking about this a very bizarre way of
Speaker 1: introduction to the business. And it got a lot of publicity,
Speaker 1: not because of me, but because of that title, like
Speaker 1: it was just a great title. Yeah. Yeah. So the
Speaker 1: next thing I know, I got a call from this
Speaker 1: guy at Lake Shore, a lovely guy named Tom Rosenberg,
Speaker 1: and he said, hey, I'm doing this producing this movie
Speaker 1: with Rupert Everett and Madonna. And you used to be
Speaker 1: a journalist, didn't you. And I said I was and
Speaker 1: he said, but you're now a screenwriter and I said,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to And he said, well, I'm looking for
Speaker 1: somebody who could interview Madonna about her life and her
Speaker 1: views and put those feelings into the script. And he
Speaker 1: said will you do it? And I said, well, what
Speaker 1: does that mean? And he said, I want you to
Speaker 1: go to New York for a couple months, once a month,
Speaker 1: and I want you to sit with the tape recorder
Speaker 1: and talk to her about her life and then put
Speaker 1: that into the next draft of the script. So I
Speaker 1: was like what I was absolutely couldn't say quick yes
Speaker 1: enough and actually would have done it for free. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And this was Ray of Light Madonna. This was like wow,
Speaker 1: this was like nineteen ninety eight. It was her world
Speaker 1: and we're all living in it. Yeah. So I flew
Speaker 1: to New York and this is a true story that
Speaker 1: no one ever believes me and the elevator ride up
Speaker 1: to meet Madonna for the first time with Tom. He
Speaker 1: turned to me and said, I forgot to ask you
Speaker 1: when is your birthday? And I said what? And he
Speaker 1: said when is your birthday? And I said I'm November ninth,
Speaker 1: and he goes, are you a scorpio? I said yeah,
Speaker 1: and he goes, you can't tell that to her because
Speaker 1: she won't hire you. And I said, what do you mean?
Speaker 1: He said, I don't know, but just don't say you're
Speaker 1: a scorpio. Say you're something else. So lo and behold,
Speaker 1: I meet her. She's lovely. The last question is when
Speaker 1: we were born? And I gave her my mother's birthday
Speaker 1: of September third, and she said, oh virgo, okay, that's
Speaker 1: my mom's birthday. Oh yeah, Wow, We're connected deeply, Kevin,
Speaker 1: I got By the time we got down to the lobby,
Speaker 1: it came word that I was hired. So I had
Speaker 1: this incredible five or six month period where I'd flied
Speaker 1: to New York. I would be ushered into a beautiful
Speaker 1: room in her home. I would sit under this amazing
Speaker 1: Tamera did them pinkup painting, and she would come out
Speaker 1: smelling like Pachuli oiled with her drowned world hair, and
Speaker 1: she would sit and I would talk. So I had
Speaker 1: this great experience with her. And I cannot say enough
Speaker 1: good things about Madonna, how nice she was. I never
Speaker 1: understood the scorpio thing, and maybe it was a joke
Speaker 1: between them, but it was funny, and she was so
Speaker 1: cool and kind. And I asked her very first personal
Speaker 1: questions about her life and her childbirth because that was
Speaker 1: the point of the show. So I did a draft
Speaker 1: and Tom loved it. The next thing I know is
Speaker 1: Rupert Everett read the draft and was like, this is
Speaker 1: supposed to be a two hander, and I feel the
Speaker 1: entire thing is now about Madonna's character. So I was
Speaker 1: I had got to help Tom and Rupert and Madonna
Speaker 1: work and choose the director, which was John Slessinger who
Speaker 1: directed Midnight Cowboys. So I was like this young punk
Speaker 1: and I never understood why they were saying, well, who
Speaker 1: would you hire? I was like John Slessinger. So anyway,
Speaker 1: I was systematically after that draft fired from that project.
Speaker 1: And I think some of it that Madonna's yoga teaching
Speaker 1: stuff made it into the movie. But she was kind
Speaker 1: and wonderful. So when I came up with this idea
Speaker 1: to do the tribute jumping ahead to Glee, I had
Speaker 1: had an experience with her and I knew her manager,
Speaker 1: Guy Osiri, a little bit, so I called him and said,
Speaker 1: I have a really crazy idea and it's a real
Speaker 1: leap of faith because to do it, I just need
Speaker 1: permission and I can't really be told which songs to choose,
Speaker 1: But will you? Asked Madonna if we can do a
Speaker 1: tribute episode to her, which was kind of the first
Speaker 1: so it was kind of whoever was going to be
Speaker 1: that person was going to have to take a leap
Speaker 1: of faith and give me the rights to your catalog
Speaker 1: and let me record an album, and let let me
Speaker 1: interpret your music the way that we want to ask
Speaker 1: ask for a show that also was, like you said,
Speaker 1: it was building in success every week, like the numbers.
Speaker 1: We've been tracking the numbers too, where it still wasn't gigantic,
Speaker 1: but it was getting it was getting substantially bigger every
Speaker 1: single week. When you're asking one of the biggest artists
Speaker 1: of all time, have free reign of everything. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: so he asked her, and much to my surprise, until
Speaker 1: she said yes. And I think the reason she said
Speaker 1: yes was because she I don't know that she'd watched
Speaker 1: the show or knew that much about it. I think
Speaker 1: she was aware of it, and I think when it
Speaker 1: was explained to her that these were kids who were
Speaker 1: in a show choir dance group thing, it's kind of
Speaker 1: touched a nerve for her because she had come up
Speaker 1: in that world. You know, she had gone to in Michigan,
Speaker 1: um kind of a she was a dancer, so I
Speaker 1: think she she had a real appreciation for kids making
Speaker 1: it and trying to do it. So then that's how
Speaker 1: I got the rights, and I was I could not
Speaker 1: believe it actually, and from Madonna's generosity and kindness came
Speaker 1: so many other people, Paul McCartney, you know, Barbara Stratt,
Speaker 1: just Legends and Gaga. Um So that started our absolutely
Speaker 1: insane tribute series. And you asked, how did I pick
Speaker 1: the songs? I don't really remember. I remember, you know,
Speaker 1: you start with, like, okay, who were the characters. There
Speaker 1: was a story, there was the there was the Leah
Speaker 1: Corey story, there was the um um, well, I love
Speaker 1: the thing that the person who was the world's biggest
Speaker 1: Madonna fan was Susol Faster, which I thought would be
Speaker 1: absolutely true. So that was kind of the jumping off points. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I but it was so much fun to write,
Speaker 1: and um, I think we really did shoot our first draft.
Speaker 1: I mean the fun thing about it was I did
Speaker 1: a Madonna boot camp for Brad and Ian and tried
Speaker 1: to explain to them my obsession with Madonna. And then
Speaker 1: we've wrote the script and that was it, and and
Speaker 1: then we were thinking of well, who could direct it?
Speaker 1: And I remember Brad saying, You've got to be kidding,
Speaker 1: You're like nobody else understand how to do with this.
Speaker 1: And then I loved the challenge of there's one shot
Speaker 1: that I was rewatching the episode in anticipation of this
Speaker 1: wonderful meeting with you too. And there was one shot
Speaker 1: that I remember Leah and Corey were running down the
Speaker 1: hallway singing and they passed like the ten different Madonna.
Speaker 1: That's what I want to have been dying to ask
Speaker 1: you about this. Please explain all of that. It made
Speaker 1: absolutely no sense, but it was so. It was cinema, Ryan,
Speaker 1: that was cinema was cinema. It was the thing I
Speaker 1: loved about her that she meant so much to me
Speaker 1: and continues to mean so much to me, which is
Speaker 1: that she never got pigeonholed and she changed. And I
Speaker 1: really wanted to do that in my career, and I
Speaker 1: really kind of had tried, and I think I have
Speaker 1: done it, which is always doing the opposite thing nobody
Speaker 1: expects you to do whatever. So I wanted to pay
Speaker 1: tribute to the quality in her that I love the most,
Speaker 1: which was all of these different looks and in a
Speaker 1: very short amount of time. So when you see that
Speaker 1: there's like ten people in these different I think I
Speaker 1: even did it. Who's that girl? Shout out with the bowler?
Speaker 1: And like I was nutty And I remember Lou and
Speaker 1: I the costumer spending hours trying to figure out our
Speaker 1: favorite Madonna looks. And she had a say in that too,
Speaker 1: and I love that was so much fun, the two
Speaker 1: of you being able to talk about your favorite Madonna looks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was fun and it was a real tribute, and
Speaker 1: so we shot it and did it, and it to
Speaker 1: this day has one of the most fun things that
Speaker 1: I've ever done, which is directing Jane Lynch almost in
Speaker 1: a side by side in comparison beat by beat tribute
Speaker 1: to Madonna in Vogue, which Jane won the Emmy Award
Speaker 1: I think for that episode. So um, that was nuts
Speaker 1: and I don't and again an example of the show
Speaker 1: really like we had not done something like that before,
Speaker 1: and it was kind of looking back, I'm glad I
Speaker 1: did it. Should I have done it? Probably not, but
Speaker 1: you know, who knows. But I wanted it to beat
Speaker 1: beat by beat and Zach Woodley and I the choreographer,
Speaker 1: and Chris bath Of the cinematographer, and we had to
Speaker 1: get permission from the studio to do a black and
Speaker 1: white segment because you just didn't do that right. Um,
Speaker 1: some countries wouldn't carry it, or it was just a
Speaker 1: whole big thing. Um things you don't think about. So
Speaker 1: we had the video and we had we recreated we
Speaker 1: looked at it like the Zapruder film, like you know,
Speaker 1: it was just like constant looking at it, poppying the sets. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we had Jane check everything we had. Yeah, Madonna was
Speaker 1: Jane was actually a gigantic Madonna fan as well. She was,
Speaker 1: and so she was saying how fortunate she got to
Speaker 1: do that too, like how how cool that is and
Speaker 1: like what world would you ever get to do something
Speaker 1: like that? And also, Adam, you give that to change
Speaker 1: some of the lyrics too, where she got to say
Speaker 1: will I hate you and things like that, which is crazy,
Speaker 1: and Madonna had Madonna had to approve that. So again
Speaker 1: it was me calling Hi, it's me again, and they're like,
Speaker 1: who is this Will Schuster? What are you talking about?
Speaker 1: But um, yeah, I remember you guys. I remember everybody
Speaker 1: in the cast dropping by to watch that being shot.
Speaker 1: I remember you guys coming by. Oh yes, um we
Speaker 1: had to Yeah, it was. It was really kind of
Speaker 1: an amazing thing. And you know, Jane had said that
Speaker 1: before the Your show but which I watched or listened to,
Speaker 1: where she talked about a lot of the props that
Speaker 1: David Fincher you used in the original Volk video. We
Speaker 1: found so we got to do all of that um
Speaker 1: stuff and in a real tribute not only to Madonna
Speaker 1: but to David Fincher because that that video was still
Speaker 1: I think the number the best video ever made. And yeah,
Speaker 1: so we got to do all of that stuff and
Speaker 1: it was incredible, and also it was incredible that the
Speaker 1: studio let me shoot that for two days. That was
Speaker 1: two days of work that was not just okay, we're
Speaker 1: gonna and it was expensive and then it looked eve
Speaker 1: it was and it was very st thirty five millimeter
Speaker 1: and literally we had there was the crazy thing a
Speaker 1: shot with Jane floating over what looked like a fabric yes,
Speaker 1: and you know in that so we had to figure out, well,
Speaker 1: how did how did they do that? And they had
Speaker 1: Madonna on sort of a like a lever that was
Speaker 1: supporting her neck from the back and it was like
Speaker 1: a chiropractor table. So we had to build that and
Speaker 1: it was all just like a great learning technical experience.
Speaker 1: I've never done anything so technical. And Jane was a
Speaker 1: trooper and I take after take, Jane, move your head
Speaker 1: an eighth of an inch. If we looked at the monitor.
Speaker 1: Now back, raise your eyebrow, and I would always kind
Speaker 1: of let her do a take for herself, right, und Dad,
Speaker 1: out of your system, here's what actually need. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: we had fun. And about what I remember about it
Speaker 1: was at the beginning, like we keep talking about, of
Speaker 1: a feeling of oh, this is going to be people
Speaker 1: are going to lose their minds when this airs, and
Speaker 1: they did. It was a really really big rating success.
Speaker 1: He got nominated and won mini many awards. Jane won
Speaker 1: the Amy for this. I believe I was nominated for
Speaker 1: the Director's Guild Award for this episode, which was hilarious
Speaker 1: to me. And it was just yeah. And then the
Speaker 1: fun part was we finished. And that was back in
Speaker 1: the days too, where I would finish a cut and
Speaker 1: you guys would all come into the editing room which
Speaker 1: was literally a trailer and I'm sure covering those pestos
Speaker 1: or something, and it was a trailer. It was okay.
Speaker 1: I remember it giving I remember giving you snacks, and
Speaker 1: I remember showing you guys the episode are rough cut
Speaker 1: of it, Yes, And your reaction was the reaction that
Speaker 1: people had because it just kept building and building. It
Speaker 1: was a spectacle. It was nutty. It was about something.
Speaker 1: I remember shooting the Express Yourself number. How fun was that?
Speaker 1: That was really fun? And Jenna, I remember you were
Speaker 1: the only one who could ever do the monocle correctly
Speaker 1: of it, so if that was a big thing for
Speaker 1: me and I kept and then I remember you kept
Speaker 1: getting it right and everyone else was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: it flew a wreck get people in the face. You
Speaker 1: were a dancer and you knew how to keep your shoulders.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but you were the thank you, thank
Speaker 1: you MVP with the monocle, the monocle actor as we
Speaker 1: called it. Yeah, yeah, we in our episodes we have
Speaker 1: best performances and best you know, superlatives, and we do
Speaker 1: the best performance by a prop and the monocle one
Speaker 1: for that was there's a lethal weapon. It was it
Speaker 1: really also just you know, doing it. It just made
Speaker 1: you you know, I think that's another moment we're doing
Speaker 1: Express Yourself and I remember the boys were directed to
Speaker 1: kind of be bored and kind of look off, and
Speaker 1: you guys were anything but you know, And that was
Speaker 1: also the beginning of something on the show where people
Speaker 1: would show up to watch those numbers, like we should
Speaker 1: built the auditorium and people all over the Paramount lot
Speaker 1: would show up. That was one of those days and
Speaker 1: one of those challenges because it was like, how can
Speaker 1: we be miserable during this The girls are kicking ass
Speaker 1: good and it was so good and the constance was hard. Yeah,
Speaker 1: every number was full of joy and excitement for us
Speaker 1: to get to do in every department. That's what it
Speaker 1: felt like. And I could tell that because you guys
Speaker 1: really put yourself into it and not even watching it.
Speaker 1: It has a level of energy from the actors that
Speaker 1: was new to watch because you could tell that you
Speaker 1: were also doing an in tribute to Madonna in some
Speaker 1: weird way, I felt, and everybody loved it. Everybody, even
Speaker 1: Corey loved it, like you know, yes, I loved the
Speaker 1: loved the tribute to her and the energy and thought
Speaker 1: it was about shit crazy what we were doing. And
Speaker 1: I mean there are so many numbers in it too,
Speaker 1: it's like, what was your did you have a favorite?
Speaker 1: You know. The other thing the pressure of doing this
Speaker 1: because at that point we knew that the artists a
Speaker 1: lot of the time responded to what we did in
Speaker 1: the episode. So I think knowing that Madonna was probably
Speaker 1: going to see it. It seemed unlikely, there's no way,
Speaker 1: but I was going to see this. But we also
Speaker 1: knew like if I sing this, I have to like
Speaker 1: do it's because she will probably I can't butcher what
Speaker 1: it feels like for a girl, right, yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: know when she thought, but my favorite number honestly was
Speaker 1: and maybe it's because we did it on tour, maybe
Speaker 1: because it has like nostalgia and sentimental feelings now, but
Speaker 1: like a prayer, right, like those numbers, it's like the
Speaker 1: feeling that I get that I remember doing with such
Speaker 1: joy and like Amber's mom being in the choir on
Speaker 1: stage with us and just like you're like just dance,
Speaker 1: you know, just like go, and that that to me
Speaker 1: is like what emulated the US, you know, as a
Speaker 1: as a group of new directions. But then also like
Speaker 1: I mean ray of Light when you have like people
Speaker 1: on stilts, it's like it's crazy, it's crazy. It was crazy,
Speaker 1: and those to remind me you were just saying what
Speaker 1: it feels like for a girl. That's such a beautiful arrangement.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think Anna Mandrew's did incredible arrangements throughout
Speaker 1: that whole episode. I thought it was really bold that
Speaker 1: you picked that song because it was not one of
Speaker 1: her biggest songs, but it was one of her the
Speaker 1: video being controversial, shocking her having a controversial video, and
Speaker 1: how you used it in having the sort of gender
Speaker 1: reverse perspective singing it was really powerful. Yeah, I only
Speaker 1: chose songs in that episode that meant something to me. Again,
Speaker 1: that feeling of what it feels like for our girl
Speaker 1: you could put what it feels like for a blank. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it reminded me of me in college getting the
Speaker 1: single ripped apart, you know, like the cruelty of the
Speaker 1: world sometimes and how hard it is to be a
Speaker 1: woman or to which I think has changed so much.
Speaker 1: But you know, yeah, I was those songs were personal
Speaker 1: to me and I think you can tell. And but yeah,
Speaker 1: there was the moment of reckoning where I had to
Speaker 1: send it to her to watch because I do believe
Speaker 1: that the only caveat that they had was if she
Speaker 1: didn't like something. You know, she gave me complete freedom,
Speaker 1: but if she didn't like something, she politely said, I
Speaker 1: would like to have a discussion about it if it
Speaker 1: rubs me the wrong way, Because these are my songs,
Speaker 1: these are my children, my life and I said yes.
Speaker 1: So again throughout the entire process, I cannot express to
Speaker 1: you how kind she was about it and open about it,
Speaker 1: and then when she saw it even more kind and open.
Speaker 1: She didn't have a note, she didn't ask for anything
Speaker 1: to be changed. She loved it. She um wow. She
Speaker 1: was so supportive of it that at one point I
Speaker 1: thought I was being punked or like, really, this cannot
Speaker 1: be real. And then she put out a press release
Speaker 1: I believe the day the show aired, saying how much
Speaker 1: she supported it and what the show was about and
Speaker 1: doing for the world, and that her doing that at
Speaker 1: that moment in time also made the show be further
Speaker 1: recognized because a lot that letter got so much attention
Speaker 1: and that set the standard. Also like, okay, if we
Speaker 1: do a tribute episode part of the gig as you,
Speaker 1: we hope you like it enough to say something nice
Speaker 1: but right. And then the album hit number one. That
Speaker 1: was a big thing for me that I wanted her
Speaker 1: to get as a tribute from us to her, which happened.
Speaker 1: I remember getting a call from Jeff Bywater about you
Speaker 1: hit number one kid, yeah, smoking. So it was just
Speaker 1: all a Nutti Nutti Nutti experience. And then things were
Speaker 1: different in every way on that show. Yeah, how we
Speaker 1: need it, had the amount of money we were given
Speaker 1: to make it, how people viewed it. How in many
Speaker 1: cases things that I did in that episode that really
Speaker 1: were nuts and went off the rails um kept happening,
Speaker 1: you know, And I think in a different world it
Speaker 1: would um it would not probably have gone so crazy.
Speaker 1: And then you know, there was also the creative difficulty
Speaker 1: of well how do you top that? And we kept
Speaker 1: trying to top and top and top it with um
Speaker 1: right with Gagay, with Britney Spears, with Michael Jackson. The
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson episode is the one I believe that made
Speaker 1: both of you lose your minds or something happened around
Speaker 1: that time. Yes, we you survived, you did. I made it.
Speaker 1: You made it. And also I remember, didn't you guys
Speaker 1: walk off the set? Wasn't weren't we shooting something in
Speaker 1: a parking garage that went nutty? We didn't walk off.
Speaker 1: We didn't shoot something in a parking garage and had
Speaker 1: that was crazy because technically speaking, we had no time
Speaker 1: to rehearse in the parking garage and we were using
Speaker 1: an actual parking garage on the Paramount lot. So we
Speaker 1: don't wait for all the employees to leave, and so
Speaker 1: we would poor Zach Woodley would take whoever was in
Speaker 1: that section of the dance and we would sort of
Speaker 1: just map it out and shoot it as we were going,
Speaker 1: So we never rehearsed the whole thing. We could just
Speaker 1: do it bits. How did that happen? Why is that?
Speaker 1: Why did that happen? I think we were behind I
Speaker 1: think shooting that day already and then whenever Zach got us,
Speaker 1: it was so late that the crew was then moving
Speaker 1: over already, and you know, it was one of those
Speaker 1: technical things where you have to wrangle eighty of us,
Speaker 1: change us, redo our everything. This was when Sebastian was
Speaker 1: getting hit with rocks in the slushy and that was
Speaker 1: Gran Augustine and I believe at this time this is
Speaker 1: when I lost my mind a little bit. I wasn't
Speaker 1: there for the second part of Michael, but we were
Speaker 1: shooting two episodes at the same time, I believe, and
Speaker 1: that's why I was in some of Michael and not
Speaker 1: in the second half of Michael. We were doing what
Speaker 1: episode was before Saturday Night Fever, if I maybe correct,
Speaker 1: it was the one with Saturday Night fever. At the
Speaker 1: end of the episode, we're all inmost white suits. I
Speaker 1: don't remember what it was, but we were doing two
Speaker 1: at once and crossing over and then I think Bad
Speaker 1: was like a night shoot and we went in and
Speaker 1: like you'd be like, car Well, that's also funny to
Speaker 1: talk about that episode and Madonna, because you know, my
Speaker 1: life changed between those times, right right. I was very, very,
Speaker 1: very very you know, we've talked about this, but I
Speaker 1: was very very in that show the first two years,
Speaker 1: really really in it, and then I had a baby,
Speaker 1: and then American Horror Story happened, and then I sort
Speaker 1: of went to having a bigger overall deal with more
Speaker 1: responsibilities and more development, and yeah, it was it was
Speaker 1: a much different world. And I do think the the now,
Speaker 1: it just seems like the idea that we did twenty
Speaker 1: two episodes a year of a musical is insane. How
Speaker 1: was that even allowed to happen? The schedules, like you
Speaker 1: know now you would do if you would do twelve,
Speaker 1: and I would say that's too much, But you know,
Speaker 1: there was no there was no protection for any of us.
Speaker 1: It was hard on you. I remember it was incredibly
Speaker 1: difficult with the writing because it was three of us
Speaker 1: doing it, and so many nights we'd be at the
Speaker 1: Chateau of Marmat in the lobby until the wee hours,
Speaker 1: like really struggling and how do we feel up these episodes?
Speaker 1: And it became you know, and then it became such
Speaker 1: a business that um and people wanted more, more of it,
Speaker 1: and the world wanted more of it at that point,
Speaker 1: So you know, the philosophy of my career has always
Speaker 1: been asked me, what my favorite word is, Kevin, what's
Speaker 1: your favorite word? Ryan? Yes, my favorite word is yes,
Speaker 1: because I always was like, yes, yes, I'll do more, Yes,
Speaker 1: I'll yes, we'll do because you never think that you're
Speaker 1: from Yes come as many joys. And at that point
Speaker 1: I felt like such a minority in the business and
Speaker 1: so lucky to be there, and thinking, well, this is
Speaker 1: never going to happen again, so sure we'll do a tour. Sure,
Speaker 1: why not? Like I just kept wanting to be a
Speaker 1: people pleaser and Um, looking back now, I mean that
Speaker 1: period of the Madonna episode, followed by all those awards,
Speaker 1: followed by that tour, we were grumbling about it, but
Speaker 1: I mean it was really one of the best times
Speaker 1: in my life. I was special to get to do that.
Speaker 1: I don't think we're sling yet. I don't think that
Speaker 1: we were quite there yet. Oh I was. I remember
Speaker 1: being like, I can't, I can't the scripts, like how
Speaker 1: do I do twenty two of a musical? Right? And
Speaker 1: then three of you doing that? Is that's crazy. I
Speaker 1: don't know how the three of you could write to
Speaker 1: you two full seasons just the three of you. How
Speaker 1: do you tune out like the pressure or do you not?
Speaker 1: Or did you feel or how do you tune out now?
Speaker 1: Like the pressure of like what the fans want when
Speaker 1: they went the expectation? Yeah? Um, yeah, that was That
Speaker 1: was that. That show was a learning curve in so
Speaker 1: many ways because it was also we've spoke about this privately,
Speaker 1: but it was sort of like me um at the beginning.
Speaker 1: You know, I felt very much like everybody else. I
Speaker 1: was working for a company, you know, I didn't feel
Speaker 1: like your boss. I felt like we were having fun.
Speaker 1: I was your peer. Yeah. You know, not only was
Speaker 1: I writing some of them a lot a lot of
Speaker 1: them with the guys, but I was directing a lot
Speaker 1: of them. And these are the days where I would
Speaker 1: go to every dance rehearsal yeah, I would go to
Speaker 1: every you know, cost him fit. I was so involved,
Speaker 1: and it was I felt so much pressure because who
Speaker 1: knew that this little fun thing that we did, that
Speaker 1: we did for us in a bubble would become such
Speaker 1: a worldwide success. And it was a worldwide success. So
Speaker 1: it was I've never had anything culturally bigger than that
Speaker 1: at that moment in time. And then you know what
Speaker 1: had started to happen was it was Niah who introduced
Speaker 1: me to the wonderful world of social media, which, in
Speaker 1: a weird way was like, Oh my god, why did
Speaker 1: I do that? She helped set up my Twitter account
Speaker 1: and she tweeted, now you something like now you all
Speaker 1: be nice to him, or I'm gonna get you or
Speaker 1: something funny. Remember that, And I remember you guys were like,
Speaker 1: I really don't know if you have the stomach to
Speaker 1: be but you guys loved it because you were young,
Speaker 1: and it was like and stand feedback and they were
Speaker 1: nice to you. Those first two seasons, I think we
Speaker 1: were the most tweeted about TV show in the world. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sure. And then you know, I would start to
Speaker 1: read the tweets from the fans and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: they want X to be with why they want they
Speaker 1: don't they don't like what we're doing. Okay, well I
Speaker 1: will serve that. So then we became you know, then
Speaker 1: we started to service the relationships, probably not from an
Speaker 1: organic place, but from a fan place, which is the
Speaker 1: kiss of death, which I learned you can never do.
Speaker 1: And then you know, and now there's just rules in
Speaker 1: my life that I follow. I don't read reviews. I
Speaker 1: don't read what people say about the shows. I don't um.
Speaker 1: I don't let that into my head because I'm writing
Speaker 1: it first and foremost for me. And I remember we
Speaker 1: were encouraged by the company to have tweet parties and
Speaker 1: actively engage with the fans and try so that was
Speaker 1: that was a young learning curve for corporations too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: where they were like, yeah, like make the fans for
Speaker 1: like more people will watch. So yes, that probably was true.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean I had in the second year
Speaker 1: of the show, particularly it was dark, I had death threats.
Speaker 1: I had to get security. I had people showing up
Speaker 1: at my door. You guys, remember that the people showing
Speaker 1: up at the door upset about something that happened with
Speaker 1: Brittany and Santana. Somebody with a knife and the cops
Speaker 1: came and it was just it was just out of
Speaker 1: control and it was scary, and so I quickly learned, yeah,
Speaker 1: don't do that, and I don't do that anymore. And
Speaker 1: now my rule is Glee was written in a very
Speaker 1: place of love. You know, when people talk about their parents,
Speaker 1: their parents get divorced, but you were born of love
Speaker 1: when you were conceived. You should know even though mom
Speaker 1: and dad got a divorce, we loved you in that
Speaker 1: moment you were made. That's how I felt about Glee,
Speaker 1: because that's what it was, particularly us first two years.
Speaker 1: I'm until my life changed and yeah, and then you know,
Speaker 1: I couldn't. I was torn into many directions both from
Speaker 1: my family and my work obligations and what I was
Speaker 1: trying to accomplish. And I also felt driven to do
Speaker 1: more that put more things like whatever whatever you want
Speaker 1: to call the Madonna episode. It had a queer sensibility,
Speaker 1: it was and I wanted to do more things like that,
Speaker 1: for more more shows with more people. And so then
Speaker 1: that became a driving force in my life to sort
Speaker 1: of leave the world in a different place than it
Speaker 1: was when I came in. Again, the kid you had
Speaker 1: the madonnaa single ripped apart. So everything just changed and
Speaker 1: you got there. You know, I'm as busy and hard
Speaker 1: as it was, I guess saying yes all the time.
Speaker 1: But by doing that, you did build yourself into a
Speaker 1: position to get to put queer stories and queer media
Speaker 1: on so different networks with several different TV shows concurrently,
Speaker 1: So you know, you built this empire. You know, to
Speaker 1: circle back to what the kil Burnett Award is about,
Speaker 1: and what your speech was about was to put to
Speaker 1: give spotlight to underserved communities and groups, because you know
Speaker 1: what that personally feels like. And so I mean, it
Speaker 1: seems like with Glee you were able to see how
Speaker 1: hungry people were for that and how when given the
Speaker 1: opportunity to see themselves people appreciated it. And so then
Speaker 1: you got to I mean, and you did amazing things
Speaker 1: as well after or you made sure women in the workplace,
Speaker 1: women got to direct and got to shadow directors on
Speaker 1: your shows. Yeah, so behind the scenes, you immediately even
Speaker 1: you must have been exhausted, you had a family, you
Speaker 1: had eight billion shows, but you still were, you know,
Speaker 1: making time to make sure that other people. It was
Speaker 1: sort of like the Oprah model. If I come up,
Speaker 1: everybody else gets to come up to give you know,
Speaker 1: to help the people below come up to meet you. Otherwise,
Speaker 1: I mean I did feel I did try and do that,
Speaker 1: and I also wished, you know, I feel like coming
Speaker 1: on your show is great because it's like therapy sessions
Speaker 1: where we can really but I wish I wish some
Speaker 1: of it. I never would have changed some of it.
Speaker 1: I would have changed, like, um, a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: that was going on. It had become such a business
Speaker 1: and like you're talking about shooting in a garage with
Speaker 1: cars coming and no time to rehearse, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: how did that? How was that allowed to happen? I
Speaker 1: wasn't front and center at the show at that moment
Speaker 1: in time, and I don't think that should have happened.
Speaker 1: I think we were doing it. I wish that there
Speaker 1: had been more time and um, things put into like
Speaker 1: how are you feeling? How is your mental health? Like
Speaker 1: you said you had a moment Jen like, of course
Speaker 1: you did. We all did. But but but back then
Speaker 1: there was no conversation. You never could do that because
Speaker 1: then they'd be like, Okay, well, I remember hearing us
Speaker 1: story about a showrunner who the pressure was so bad
Speaker 1: that he went missing for three days and they found
Speaker 1: him in a car. He had had a nervous breakdown
Speaker 1: and he was in a car shaking uncontrollably. And I
Speaker 1: remember reading that and thinking I know that, feeling yeah,
Speaker 1: I really do get that. The pressure of, you know,
Speaker 1: show business, it's a show, but it's also a business
Speaker 1: was just really too much to take on. And it's
Speaker 1: I don't think there's any There's never been another show
Speaker 1: like Glee that was like this multiheaded hydra where you're
Speaker 1: a TV show, but you're also a stage show, and
Speaker 1: you're also a soundtrack business, and you're also a merchandise business,
Speaker 1: like and big in each of those departments, not just
Speaker 1: like phoning it in, big in every sector like that. Yes,
Speaker 1: And it got so nutty that at one point I
Speaker 1: got a call about doing a Glee Haunted House thing
Speaker 1: at Universal something for Halloween. And I was like, well,
Speaker 1: this this is really insane. The show has nothing to
Speaker 1: do and you want to make it a horror show.
Speaker 1: And then I thought, you know what, I should have
Speaker 1: done that, like, how fun for all of you guys
Speaker 1: to be amazing they wanted to do. It was around
Speaker 1: the time of the the the much maligned Heads, Will Rolls,
Speaker 1: Zombie Number Glee, Dead with Knives, and our I guess
Speaker 1: I don't know, but only this certain group of us
Speaker 1: who have been through that experience will ever know what
Speaker 1: it was like. And yeah, but also I would like
Speaker 1: to say about the Madonna thing, like I never had
Speaker 1: more fun ever doing any piece of work other than
Speaker 1: the pilot, I think for me and um, it was
Speaker 1: just such a joy and a privilege to be and
Speaker 1: it was a it was a privilege to do it,
Speaker 1: to make it. You know, Jenna and I talked about
Speaker 1: us crazy and big as that episode was when we
Speaker 1: tell people about how good you are as a director,
Speaker 1: because I think people you're a known media brand and personality,
Speaker 1: but as a director, you're so good. And there's that
Speaker 1: scene and as crazy as that episode was, there's a
Speaker 1: scene where it's Jenna and I talking at the piano
Speaker 1: after Larretie has said some very questionable showing a stick
Speaker 1: things to her and we walk in the choir room
Speaker 1: to block it, and you go, no, no, no, this
Speaker 1: doesn't work, because you know there was supposed I was
Speaker 1: to Lynn we were moving yeah, and you go, no,
Speaker 1: this isn't right. At all and you stop and you
Speaker 1: were just quiet for like twenty thirty seconds, like staring
Speaker 1: off to the distance, and you go, Okay, here's what
Speaker 1: we're going to do. And you took over the floor
Speaker 1: and you rewrote the scene in real time, and you go, Kevin,
Speaker 1: you're here, Jenna, you sit there and you're gonna say this.
Speaker 1: You're gonna say this, You're gonna that, You're gonna say that.
Speaker 1: It was the craziest thing I've ever seen. I do
Speaker 1: remember that we started doing it and then I remember
Speaker 1: everyone was like, oh, thank god, yeah, oh, the scene
Speaker 1: is great now. And it was so quiet. We were
Speaker 1: so silent, there was nothing else going on. And it
Speaker 1: was a real a really important learning moment for me,
Speaker 1: and getting to work with you to see how you
Speaker 1: worked that, and also getting to act and learning how
Speaker 1: to act better. And I think the brilliance of being
Speaker 1: able to think on your feet and rewrite a scene
Speaker 1: and make it even ten times better than it originally
Speaker 1: was supposed to be was remarkable. It's a really crazy
Speaker 1: thing to see. Yeah, well, I don't know I feel
Speaker 1: that about you know, I don't direct anymore, but I've
Speaker 1: kind of retired from that. But I did love it
Speaker 1: when I was doing it, and my rule about it
Speaker 1: was always you know that that phrase, if someone shows
Speaker 1: you who they are, believe them. And I feel that
Speaker 1: way about scenes, so you know, we can write it.
Speaker 1: And then I'm a collaborator with you guys, and I
Speaker 1: remember that you were really trying to pay tribute to
Speaker 1: the script and the script was wrong. So it was like, well, if, okay,
Speaker 1: this has now been revealed to us that this scene sucks,
Speaker 1: so what do we do? And we I do remember
Speaker 1: just sitting there and thinking, you know, you two are
Speaker 1: so talented that there's just too much in your way
Speaker 1: and what is really what is really the scene about?
Speaker 1: And when I do lectures or anything for young people,
Speaker 1: I would say, when you direct, you only need to
Speaker 1: know three things. You need to know how do you
Speaker 1: get into this scene, what's your first moment, what's your transition,
Speaker 1: how do you get out of the scene, what's the
Speaker 1: last beat? And the most important thing is the tone.
Speaker 1: What do you want to feel from this scene? And
Speaker 1: what the three of us came up with was a
Speaker 1: feeling and then it was just very boom boom boom
Speaker 1: bom boom, and it was it was and I always
Speaker 1: feel in service to that, and I also feel very
Speaker 1: in service to actors because I feel scripts are blueprints
Speaker 1: and sometimes it was something that you write is absolutely Oh,
Speaker 1: it's like building a house. This is perfect. But then
Speaker 1: sometimes you're making a room and you're like, this room
Speaker 1: is terrible. Why so it's in the architecture. You have
Speaker 1: to go back and do it. But I do remember
Speaker 1: that day. I also remember that day. You probably don't
Speaker 1: remember this, but it was raining so hard and that
Speaker 1: we had to do one takeover because that we had
Speaker 1: that crazy roof above the choir room and it was
Speaker 1: a sound thing. Yeah, so I remember thinking wow about that.
Speaker 1: I have such a memory of that moment in time.
Speaker 1: I also remember that I was smoking cigarettes that yes,
Speaker 1: and Zach Woodley and I would go between. That was
Speaker 1: my reward if I got a scene right, we'd take
Speaker 1: I called it smoga smoking in yoga. Yeah. But it
Speaker 1: was such a vivid time in my life and that
Speaker 1: that idea, and also just the craziness that I thought
Speaker 1: I could say this doesn't work, Okay, let's do it
Speaker 1: without calling the studio or people who would have proved
Speaker 1: the script, like the use of me to do it.
Speaker 1: But well, I mean they'd picked you up for a
Speaker 1: back nine and said we want more of you. So yeah,
Speaker 1: they did, and I felt very like I was just
Speaker 1: becoming who I was supposed to become after when I could,
Speaker 1: was just beginning to show people what I could do,
Speaker 1: as you two were, as the cast was, so it
Speaker 1: was all that show was the beginning for so many
Speaker 1: people and about so many things. Yeah, well I'm glad,
Speaker 1: I'm glad you liked my directing you guys, thank you?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, now we did. Every time you would come in,
Speaker 1: it was like you knew exactly what you wanted. We
Speaker 1: made our days. It was clear it felt good when
Speaker 1: you walked away. I think as an actor a lot
Speaker 1: of the time like they're like they directors put so
Speaker 1: much trust than their actors, which is amazing, but there's
Speaker 1: also a sense of like leadership that has to be
Speaker 1: driving the ship. And like we knew if when you
Speaker 1: came in, we were like, this episode it's gonna be great.
Speaker 1: It's going to be cos if it's going to be streamlined,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to feel good walking away because we
Speaker 1: know you're going to get out of us what you
Speaker 1: want and like, you know, always be like Gena bigger,
Speaker 1: gena bigger the hair tip flips the things, and it's
Speaker 1: I look crazy, but it's funny, like it's it's what
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be, right, and that as an actor
Speaker 1: is always like God, it feels so good to walk
Speaker 1: away from something and feel good about your work. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I always tried to do on that show was to
Speaker 1: the idea that I would say more, bigger, more bigger,
Speaker 1: like some crazy fashion photographer. But I really wanted all
Speaker 1: of you, particularly in that first season, to show what
Speaker 1: you could do the most and not the least of you. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It didn't want you to feel edited, and I didn't
Speaker 1: want you to feel small, and I didn't want you
Speaker 1: to feel constricted. And I think you can feel that
Speaker 1: and that those first two seasons, it was people were
Speaker 1: allowed to be the best of you, the worst least
Speaker 1: of you. Yeah. You coming in after a couple episodes,
Speaker 1: you go, I'm over this nerdy thing. We gotta and
Speaker 1: you would push me to get out of this, like
Speaker 1: the nerdy thing. I was like, Okay, he's giving me permission.
Speaker 1: I guess I need to like, yeah, I can change
Speaker 1: it up, Okay, So like more important than even the
Speaker 1: making of that episode, for me was the camaraderie and
Speaker 1: the making of it. Like what I really really loved
Speaker 1: about that and every time I directed was you know,
Speaker 1: it was fun to do and I loved it. But
Speaker 1: I the thing that I treasure and will take to
Speaker 1: my grave that was it will make me emotional. Was
Speaker 1: like the moments, like when we were doing something nutty
Speaker 1: like that, and I remember after that rehearsal, it's a change,
Speaker 1: and you know then it took a while to get
Speaker 1: the lighting fixed and change the thing. And so we
Speaker 1: would just sit off in another room and those horrible
Speaker 1: director's chairs would throw our backs up and we would
Speaker 1: just talk and eat, and there was that weird craft
Speaker 1: service room and it was it was really a rainy
Speaker 1: season in LA that year, and I just remember we
Speaker 1: would all hang out and just talk and talk and
Speaker 1: talk and laugh, and I would see you guys do
Speaker 1: things in your real life, and I remember thinking, how
Speaker 1: funny you know you were, Kevin. So I remember saying,
Speaker 1: we'll just be more like that, or Jenna the same,
Speaker 1: just be more of the thing that makes you a
Speaker 1: sparkly person. And that would not have come unless we
Speaker 1: were all so close and hanging out and joking singing
Speaker 1: like I can remember you two also always knew what
Speaker 1: the the hot tunes worth the time finger on the pulse.
Speaker 1: You know, you're not the only tastemaker out I wasn't
Speaker 1: and I don't know how it runs. We would do that,
Speaker 1: um Amber and I would have a lot of fun
Speaker 1: with her teaching me how to do the runs. And
Speaker 1: also like I remember you guys turning me onto so
Speaker 1: much music. Yeah, it's like yeah, like I don't really
Speaker 1: think I was familiar with the artists known as Genuine
Speaker 1: and his Hip Pony and so you're welcome. We were
Speaker 1: thank you until we would be off camera You're like, hey,
Speaker 1: listen to this and I'm sorry. But some there were
Speaker 1: weren't people still having like Sony Walkman's then with the
Speaker 1: with the CDs in it and stuff, and like it
Speaker 1: was such a long time. They were like the little
Speaker 1: the little iPods. It was like without first generation Ipodsay iPods,
Speaker 1: Sony Walkmans. What can I say, I'm older than you?
Speaker 1: Really fun? Yeah, that was what all those Madonna stories,
Speaker 1: I had no idea. Did you have any This is
Speaker 1: the last time I will talk about her, But you
Speaker 1: have any other Madonna fun facts you want to know. No,
Speaker 1: did you have you seen her since? Like, have you
Speaker 1: seen her in person or talk to her since? Um?
Speaker 1: I had of Again, have you talked about did the
Speaker 1: episode come up at all? No? So far removed. Madonna
Speaker 1: is not someone whom I think looks towards the past,
Speaker 1: gat I mean, which is why her going on tour?
Speaker 1: All right? Right? Are you gonna go see it? Are
Speaker 1: you kidding? Of course? And I'm also gonna go to
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift And I'm I'm very excited about my my Beyonce.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're all going on tour. I'm going, I
Speaker 1: know together, that's gonna Beyonce together. I will pay for
Speaker 1: the tickets because I will die. I am so excited.
Speaker 1: I'm going to try to go as many times as
Speaker 1: I've seen her six times already. You've seen Beyonce six times? Yes,
Speaker 1: I've seen her six times. I went with Gwyneth Knew.
Speaker 1: I was so obsessed once and she brought me once
Speaker 1: and I heard he's seen the tour. I'm like, I'll
Speaker 1: go with you. And then she was late and I
Speaker 1: showed up to the suite and it was me and
Speaker 1: jay Z by ourselves for like twenty minutes, and I
Speaker 1: stood in a corner and didn't speak anyone because I
Speaker 1: was so scared. You were scared. Why He's so lovely,
Speaker 1: He's so nice, and I had met him before, but
Speaker 1: I just really felt like, I'm not supposed to be here.
Speaker 1: This is Beyonce's family's sweet. You know, she's another one.
Speaker 1: She was so Beyonce. She was so kind about the show.
Speaker 1: She gets permission for all of those songs. She was
Speaker 1: so supportive and sweet. And I had not met her.
Speaker 1: She's so nice, except I did run into her once,
Speaker 1: and like what happened was I was at I was
Speaker 1: in a doctor's office and they were like to get
Speaker 1: some sort of like vitamin shot, and they were like
Speaker 1: go down, turn left, and turn to the turn, and
Speaker 1: so I didn't know what I was doing, and it
Speaker 1: was like, you know, it was one of those places
Speaker 1: with hushed music and candles and everyone spoke like this.
Speaker 1: And I opened up a door and literally lit like
Speaker 1: an angel. Was Beyonce getting an ivy drip of vitamins.
Speaker 1: And I was so startled that I just turned the
Speaker 1: door and I'm like Hi. She's like HI, Like nice
Speaker 1: to meet you. She's like it's great to meet you.
Speaker 1: What are you here for I think I'm doing what
Speaker 1: you're doing. It's okay, great, and it was just you
Speaker 1: get to meet your idols, you know, and she and
Speaker 1: usually you know, the big ones are the nice ones. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't being a complete asshole? No, exactly. No. When
Speaker 1: she you know, she has a reputation with Madonna, I
Speaker 1: think of being, you know, tough, but I will say again,
Speaker 1: in the process of working with her, always the most kind,
Speaker 1: the most generous, really nice. And then I've had some fun,
Speaker 1: fun um moments with her that you know. Yeah, she's
Speaker 1: she's a force. Yeah, well, let's go see Beyonce together.
Speaker 1: I'll go to Taylor with you. I'll go to Taylor. Okay, great,
Speaker 1: what song do you want to hear the most of
Speaker 1: these concerts? I want to hear Renaissance from start to finish.
Speaker 1: That's all I want. That's what you're looking for. Yeah, mastermind,
Speaker 1: I want to hear Lavender Hayes. I want to hear
Speaker 1: I want to hear her whole Midnight album. I'm very
Speaker 1: excited about it, very I'm very excited about that Midnight's
Speaker 1: album too. I love it. I love her. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think all of these women, you know, with what they're
Speaker 1: doing with their music and how they're you know, influencing
Speaker 1: women and gay people in other minority groups. It's incredible, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, for a long period of time, like they're
Speaker 1: not just flashes in the pan there. But how lucky
Speaker 1: that you guys get so many of them. You know,
Speaker 1: I had was Madonna, that was it. She was the
Speaker 1: only one, which makes her um yeah, what she had
Speaker 1: to do to right through the system and win and right.
Speaker 1: So that's what so our summer's planned apparently, Yeah, Taylor
Speaker 1: Swift and then we're doing Beyonce and then we'll do Maddonna.
Speaker 1: Yeah right. I'm really happy for us. This is really working.
Speaker 1: I have one last question for you guys, because since
Speaker 1: from from you know, I'm very proud of you that
Speaker 1: your your show you're doing is the cultural gatekeepers of Glee.
Speaker 1: So I think I've listened to them, and I love them,
Speaker 1: and I think what you do. What I love is
Speaker 1: you talk about the positive things about the show yeah, um,
Speaker 1: and the legacy of the show. But have you guys
Speaker 1: all as a cast internally, what are your feelings about
Speaker 1: a reboot like or because you know, what do you
Speaker 1: how do you what do you think about that should
Speaker 1: we do it or should we not do it? Or
Speaker 1: should should it be left alone? Why should ask you? Ryan?
Speaker 1: Are you toying with this? Are you playing with this
Speaker 1: in your head? Well? I get asked about it all
Speaker 1: the time. Do you want to do it? Everybody's been
Speaker 1: asking that now everybody wants to you know, it's an
Speaker 1: interesting thing, and um, I think what does that look
Speaker 1: like to you? I think is the biggest thing? You know?
Speaker 1: Is it is? I mean, it's it's a format that
Speaker 1: works in a way where you can take all new
Speaker 1: people in a different city, in a different state, you know,
Speaker 1: and show the underdogs and the outcasts and do the
Speaker 1: same thing. Is it bringing back all the old people
Speaker 1: who are teachers or something? I don't know. I think
Speaker 1: it depends on what it is. I think the legacy
Speaker 1: of the show. Now, what's tough about bringing shows back
Speaker 1: is does it feel like you're hurting what has already
Speaker 1: been accomplished or tarnishing whatever? But anything you do I
Speaker 1: think is great, So I don't you're the mastermind. As
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift said, Yeah, that's funny that they played that
Speaker 1: song when I was walking on stage to get that award,
Speaker 1: which I thought was absolutely hilarious. You know what they
Speaker 1: wanted to they wanted they wanted to hilariously. They wanted
Speaker 1: to do um walk, have me walk on. They wanted
Speaker 1: to play Don't rain on My Prey, And I was like,
Speaker 1: absolutely burst into gay flames. I can't have that happen.
Speaker 1: And so they did that as a joke, and I
Speaker 1: think that she cleared it and sweetly said yes. And
Speaker 1: so when I heard it, I was like, is this mastermind?
Speaker 1: You can see in my face? I was walking at
Speaker 1: under the stage where they thought was that they were
Speaker 1: making fun of me in a lovely way. But she
Speaker 1: was sweet to say yes and yeah, But I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm of two minds. You know, first of all, you
Speaker 1: talk about they can't say anything worse than has already
Speaker 1: been said, so that's off the table. And it also
Speaker 1: was like the thing that I love about the show
Speaker 1: now is there are people watching it. They're you know,
Speaker 1: it's streaming everywhere, and there are people watching it. Young people,
Speaker 1: my children's age ten, eight nine, who have no knowledge
Speaker 1: at all of anything we all went through. They only
Speaker 1: see the very pure work. And somebody told me that
Speaker 1: their daughter last Halloween went as go Chier Madonna because
Speaker 1: she had watched the Glee episode of Madonna, and I thought, well,
Speaker 1: how amazing is that? So those are the things to
Speaker 1: think about, like it's the work that lasts and all.
Speaker 1: I never have believed that, by the way, but in
Speaker 1: this case, I do think it's true. Like it's it's
Speaker 1: a feeling and they can feel it and it teaches
Speaker 1: them about something, And part of me feels like, well,
Speaker 1: wouldn't it be great to do another run of that
Speaker 1: show and do a lot of other songs that artists
Speaker 1: pay tribute to things? And how fun would that be? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean, the show's been off what for eight years?
Speaker 1: There's so much more music too, and I'm like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, we would have done that in the day.
Speaker 1: There's just so many What do you think we would
Speaker 1: have done? Because I have my ideas, I know two
Speaker 1: things we would have done and would have been we
Speaker 1: I'm not so sure that would have been good. We
Speaker 1: would have done Hamilton, yes, is the school musical? Definitely
Speaker 1: Hamilton or Dear Evan Hansen. Um. We definitely would have
Speaker 1: done a Taylor uh tribute tribute and maybe a Beyonce
Speaker 1: tribute since we've done so much Beyonce but like a
Speaker 1: proper tribute. Um, we almost did a Taylor tribute, which
Speaker 1: was we had to change it because I couldn't get,
Speaker 1: you know, the permission. But remember when Chord had it
Speaker 1: was originally going to be he was going to form
Speaker 1: a band called the Taylor Swift Experience. That's right, Yes,
Speaker 1: that then became I couldn't get the rights to everything
Speaker 1: and do it in the way that I wanted. Then
Speaker 1: became the John Mayer Experience. John Mayer was like, I
Speaker 1: don't know if I want to do that yet. I
Speaker 1: don't even remember what did it end up being? Justin Bieber?
Speaker 1: Justin Bieber's right. It's also funny, is Chord is good
Speaker 1: friends with both of them John Mayer and Taylor spid
Speaker 1: So said yes, so it was kind of fun. Right.
Speaker 1: What what would we have done that wouldn't have been good? Right? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean we did we doubt I'm not that it
Speaker 1: would have been good. Would have been you know, we
Speaker 1: definitely would have done a Taylor Swift tribute, particularly now
Speaker 1: because you know the thing about those tribute episodes is
Speaker 1: there they were you have to have a sort of visual,
Speaker 1: iconic flair. Yeah, so, um right, I just I just
Speaker 1: know that Tina would have sung Lavender Hayes. I just God,
Speaker 1: bless you, let's do bring it back and I'm ready.
Speaker 1: And for Kevin, I would have had to have done
Speaker 1: a Beyonce tributal. That we did several Beyonce songs, I
Speaker 1: mean between Kevin and Namber were good. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: We probably would have done. The thing about the show
Speaker 1: that's so weird is you know I did my cultural
Speaker 1: things so um. The school musical was the Rocky Horror
Speaker 1: Picture Show. As a kid, I wanted to do Rocky
Speaker 1: Horror Picture Show. The very idea that we did something
Speaker 1: connected to rumors and Saturday Night fever. Your age were like,
Speaker 1: what is this? But the joy of that is like
Speaker 1: the Madonna episode when we did the Fleetwood Mac tribute.
Speaker 1: You know, that album relaunched on the charts and a
Speaker 1: whole new generation of people got to see it. So yep, yes,
Speaker 1: it was quite well, that's like the gift that keeps
Speaker 1: on giving even you know, like I remember for Journey
Speaker 1: like that was Don't Stop like was right behind us
Speaker 1: on the charts as well, when our Don't Stop was up,
Speaker 1: you know, at number one, And that was another thing
Speaker 1: I was told not to do. I mean, there were
Speaker 1: so many things I was told not to do, but
Speaker 1: that was one song people like, don't do that. The
Speaker 1: sopranos just did that I talked about. But he then
Speaker 1: showed up yep, right, and he was there and we
Speaker 1: got to meet him, and that a surreal special Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's funny now because if you do look. Sometimes I
Speaker 1: don't read things, but people will send me, like fan
Speaker 1: site or whatever, roundups of like the seventy five best
Speaker 1: Glee songs ever, and then it's fun to click through
Speaker 1: them because they're just one person's opinion to see like, well,
Speaker 1: what's number what's in the top ten? Right? And it
Speaker 1: always moves, that always changes. It's never constant from year
Speaker 1: to year, for sure. And except don't stop believe that
Speaker 1: always this number one, because like, could you not do that?
Speaker 1: Right now? I don't know. The reboot is interesting. It's
Speaker 1: like there's like a feeling that's like I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people would do it and be a part
Speaker 1: of it. And what is it that we want to say? Right?
Speaker 1: What is it that people want to say after all
Speaker 1: this time? Which I think is important in thinking about it.
Speaker 1: If there were even an option, right, if there's something
Speaker 1: that you were thinking about doing, but like, yeah, it
Speaker 1: would be difficult. But if I did do it, you know,
Speaker 1: I would want to take it back to the feeling
Speaker 1: of right the first year, I don't think I would
Speaker 1: do you know, Outland just tributes right off the bat,
Speaker 1: although I thought what mister Shoe did or Jane's character
Speaker 1: Sue did as a learning curve, was like, well, that's
Speaker 1: a really good instruction. That's a good lesson for kids
Speaker 1: to like, that's great. Like so it was it was
Speaker 1: about something, right, so I could see doing it. It
Speaker 1: would It would. I don't know when or how or why,
Speaker 1: but no, for sure, everybody's asking about it. That was
Speaker 1: so funny because there's so many reboots out there. Party's cousin,
Speaker 1: you know, cousin. Do you too think that you've you've
Speaker 1: left Ohio? I would, first of all, I would pretend
Speaker 1: that the last episode, whatever happened, everybody was like not yeah,
Speaker 1: just yeah, it's dam it was a future dream. Do
Speaker 1: you two think that your characters are still in Ohio? No,
Speaker 1: I think we got I think Tina got out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: where did they go? Well, Tina and to Brown, So
Speaker 1: I think she got some You know, like she got
Speaker 1: a little excited and then she became some crazy CEO
Speaker 1: of some you know, startup company and yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: travels East West. And I think I would imagine that
Speaker 1: Tina had like had become like some sort of businesswoman
Speaker 1: tycoon like Bethany Franklo with her own like mart tales.
Speaker 1: Absolutely think that. Yeah, And I'm just going to say it.
Speaker 1: I think her company is called Sober Curious and it's
Speaker 1: just still a line of effervescent non alkohol ers. And
Speaker 1: I also think that Tina, who had so much style,
Speaker 1: like lives like a baller. And I think she's in
Speaker 1: real good shape. Oh yeah, absolutely, Architectural Digest every other month,
Speaker 1: and and she looks back on that time when she
Speaker 1: had a goth phase. I remember that goth phase. I
Speaker 1: had what I did kill it my steampunk. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: I think I think Artie is in the music business. Yes,
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, he's either like an executive in the
Speaker 1: film or music business. I think for sure he I
Speaker 1: don't know if you ask me these questions, I'm like,
Speaker 1: why do I feel he lives in Miami. I would
Speaker 1: like to see that as Miami. I think there's some
Speaker 1: Latin music influence that you saw a moment and you
Speaker 1: went and you and you're connected to Ricky Martin and
Speaker 1: something's happening. I already signed Bad Bunny, already signed Bad Bunny.
Speaker 1: That okay, but happen that's great? God, are you talking
Speaker 1: about it? Like, oh yeah, Ricky Martin was in the
Speaker 1: show on and on and on, great wonderful people, and
Speaker 1: yeah you nailed it. Oh man, thanks for spending so
Speaker 1: much time with us. Yes, of course I'd love to
Speaker 1: what am I coming back? What episode was the next
Speaker 1: one to tear apart and discuss and break down. I
Speaker 1: think the guy, I think the Gaga one would be
Speaker 1: very very interested to talk to about how that came
Speaker 1: to be. Yes, let's talk Gaga. What are the other
Speaker 1: big ones in season two coming? Rocky Horror, love to
Speaker 1: talk about Bert. Let's see Sylvester shuffle. I mean that
Speaker 1: was crazy the super Bowl episode. Um, blame it on
Speaker 1: the alcohol. Oops. I love that one. Born this Way
Speaker 1: was the Gaga one. That sounds fun. Rumors is right
Speaker 1: after that we can do maybe we can do back
Speaker 1: to back, back to mac. We'll do a Born this
Speaker 1: Way in rumors that's eighteen and nineteen. We also have
Speaker 1: some fan questions that we can ask you then too. Okay,
Speaker 1: this is the this is the end, the fan questions.
Speaker 1: I'm ready, Oh do you want to do some fan questions?
Speaker 1: Do it hit me great? What was the hardest character
Speaker 1: to write? The hardest character to write was Sue, But
Speaker 1: that was Ian Brennan's problem because it was just it
Speaker 1: was so written in a from his brain context, and
Speaker 1: I was always so terrified to touch anything because run
Speaker 1: on sentences, have to run on sentences, and then you'd
Speaker 1: you'd see Jane do it and you'd be like, oh God, well,
Speaker 1: of course that was that was the hardest one to write. Um.
Speaker 1: I also think Mister Shoe was hard to write. I
Speaker 1: think that I think that mister Shoe has gotten a
Speaker 1: bad rap um literally, and I think that it was
Speaker 1: It was hard to be the center of force of
Speaker 1: a show where you're the moral authority, and sometimes that
Speaker 1: means that the people are around you were more sparkly
Speaker 1: and you have to be. But Matt did a great
Speaker 1: job not doing that. M was Jesse Saint James's name,
Speaker 1: Jesse Saint James, so Corey could sing Jesse's Girl great.
Speaker 1: A lot of people ask that, and I mean we
Speaker 1: knew Jonathan. I had been friends with Jonathan and Leah,
Speaker 1: and when we decided to come on and we were
Speaker 1: going to do that thing, we were talking about his
Speaker 1: name and I'm like, well, obviously it has to be
Speaker 1: Jesse so that Corey can sing that song. So yes, iconic. Um,
Speaker 1: if you could go back and change everybody asked this,
Speaker 1: if you could go back and change any storyline from
Speaker 1: the show, what would it be. I wouldn't change anything. Um,
Speaker 1: I would Um, There's nothing I would change there, you know,
Speaker 1: and no, nothing great. Did an actor ever not like
Speaker 1: a storyline and ask you to change it? Yes? Did
Speaker 1: you change it? Yeah? I think so. I mean I
Speaker 1: still do that to this day. I mean sometimes it
Speaker 1: got it got a little nuttie there. But if it
Speaker 1: was a logical reason, like like we talked about how
Speaker 1: I direct, like, I always feel like, well, tell me
Speaker 1: what you don't like. Most of you know this character
Speaker 1: better than I do in some regards, so I would
Speaker 1: There would always be moments. The one thing about the
Speaker 1: Glee cast for the most part is people were like, oh,
Speaker 1: you you want me to do that? Okay, here we go,
Speaker 1: and then you would just try it. Because some of
Speaker 1: it was so crazy and nuttie, yes and yeah, true
Speaker 1: or false? Fun Due for two was a fan idea.
Speaker 1: You'd have to ask Ian that because he he was
Speaker 1: connected to that in a way that I wasn't. But
Speaker 1: as soon as he told me about it, I remember saying, yes,
Speaker 1: we're doing fun du for two. What would happen if
Speaker 1: one of the actors got sick and couldn't record the song?
Speaker 1: Did that ever get up the chain to you? Did
Speaker 1: you ever have yeah, because you know, we'd have to
Speaker 1: move scenes around, and it was always you know, we'll
Speaker 1: get better and we're not doing it and right, yeah, right,
Speaker 1: there's very rare times that, like Kevin that I remember,
Speaker 1: like if you were sick, we would just do it
Speaker 1: and we just record it, and they'd like make us
Speaker 1: sound good and we'd be like, okay, keep moving. I
Speaker 1: mean I directed a couple of episodes. I was sick,
Speaker 1: I had a fever, and you just did it. And
Speaker 1: then there's last one, last one. It's not a question.
Speaker 1: She says. I love you, Ryan Murphy, thank you for
Speaker 1: being a genius and sharing your mind with us. Mister
Speaker 1: minds so well, thank you. I always love to hear
Speaker 1: nice things, and I'm so grateful to be able to
Speaker 1: keep talking about this great experience we had. So thank
Speaker 1: you too, Ryan, Thank you so so much. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: so good to see you, and I'll see you a
Speaker 1: lot this summer at all of our concert tours. I
Speaker 1: can't wait our tour, our tour as the beginning. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be working on my outfit now. Thanks guys, Thanks Ran,
Speaker 1: love you bye. Wow wow wow wow. Yeah you said
Speaker 1: earlier like we could talk forever, like even we know
Speaker 1: she's a busy lady and yet she's um. I you know,
Speaker 1: I wish we could to Ryan every week. I know
Speaker 1: he should be the third the third host of I mean,
Speaker 1: he is essentially sorry. Yeah, um, thank you again Ryan
Speaker 1: for doing this, Thank you all for listening. We hope
Speaker 1: you guys enjoyed it. Apparently we'll have Ryan back again
Speaker 1: for season two at some point. I love that for us.
Speaker 1: Talk about rumors, let's talk about lady God, let's talk
Speaker 1: about all of it. Yeah, thanks for listening. You guys
Speaker 1: come back next week to recap with us, and we'll
Speaker 1: have another lovely guest. And that's what you were in
Speaker 1: the missed. Thanks for listening and follow us on Instagram
Speaker 1: at and that's what you really miss POD. Make sure
Speaker 1: to write us a review and leave us five stars.
Speaker 1: See you next time.