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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to What Goes Up, a Bloomberg Weekly

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Speaker 1: Markets podcast. I'm Sarah Plantzek, a reporter on the Cross

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Speaker 1: Asset team, and I'm Mike Reagan, a senior editor at

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg and Sarah's official wingman, official wing man. I like that, Micha,

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Speaker 1: Well we'll go with that. Yeah, new wingman, this wall. Anyways,

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Speaker 1: this week on the show, our hopes running high. On Monday,

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Speaker 1: news of a promising vaccine trial sent risk asset soaring.

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Speaker 1: But by Tuesday there were already critical reports of the progress,

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Speaker 1: and we saw some of the optimism reverse as states

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Speaker 1: and countries reopen. Everyone is, of course hoping for the best.

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Speaker 1: But what should be expected a reality? The eternal question, Sarah,

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Speaker 1: what should be expected of reality? Before I do so,

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Speaker 1: our guest, I understand you have a special announcement to make.

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Speaker 1: I do have a very special announcement to make, and

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Speaker 1: I must say that this is the first on the podcast,

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Speaker 1: but we have to give a very special birthday shout

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Speaker 1: out to Michael Gross. So from Mike and I, my

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Speaker 1: wingman and me, we both have that you have a

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Speaker 1: wonderful Birthday weekend, a great Memorial Day weekend. And I've

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Speaker 1: also got to say that your fiance is a pretty awesome.

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Speaker 1: So the fiance tracked you down asking for a birthday

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Speaker 1: shout out. She did, she did, and I said, of

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Speaker 1: course I'll give him one. Of course that she's a

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Speaker 1: keeper there. Mr Michael Gross, wherever you are. I gotta say,

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Speaker 1: I don't think we should make it a tradition to

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Speaker 1: give too many birthday shout outs on the show. But

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Speaker 1: since you set the precedent, Sarah, I'm gonna give a

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Speaker 1: birthday shout out to two. A person who turned zero

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Speaker 1: years old on Thursday, May twenty one, Luisa May Baker,

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Speaker 1: the daughter of our colleague, one of my favorite Bloomberg people,

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Speaker 1: Nick Baker, born in Chicago, or at least the suburbs

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Speaker 1: of Chicago, on on Thursday. And I know this is

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Speaker 1: a crazy time to have a baby, and I know

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of stress. So welcome to the world,

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Speaker 1: Luisa May Baker. I hope your father gets you an

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Speaker 1: iPhone and Subscribe subscribes you to the podcast instantaneously as

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Speaker 1: soon as he turned up two weeks old. So weeks

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Speaker 1: that's about that. Yeah, that's about the comprehension level of

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Speaker 1: our So anyway, let's get to our guests. Very happy

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Speaker 1: to have her on the show. First time on the show.

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Speaker 1: She's also in Chicago. I'm looking at her on zoom.

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Speaker 1: Sarah the only guest we've had since February I think,

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Speaker 1: who's actually in an office and not in some basement somewhere.

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Speaker 1: So that's I don't know why, but that's kind of

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Speaker 1: exciting to me. So uh, welcome her to the show.

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Speaker 1: She's the head of US equities at Aviva Investors. Her

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Speaker 1: name is Susan Schmidt. Susan, glad to have you on

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Speaker 1: the show. Thank you, it's great to be here. Do

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Speaker 1: you have any birthday shoutouts you'd like to make, you know,

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Speaker 1: as long as we're going that route, I do. One

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Speaker 1: of the guys on my team has his birthday tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: so a birthday shout out to Nick Nikida's who handles

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Speaker 1: healthcare stacks for us. Well. I don't think anyone wants

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Speaker 1: to hear any of us as sing on this show,

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Speaker 1: especially not me, but happy birthday to everyone, right, Happy

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Speaker 1: birth day all, yes, save the singing that that would

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Speaker 1: not be a good thing here. Happy birthday around again.

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Speaker 1: This is I don't this is the end of the

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Speaker 1: birthday shout outs. Well, maybe we'll get a couple more,

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Speaker 1: you know. Alright, So so let's get serious here, And

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Speaker 1: in order to signal I'm getting serious, I'm gonna I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna do my best Jerry Seinfeld voice for the first question,

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Speaker 1: what's the deal with this stock market? I gotta say,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we're looking at the worst economic data of

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Speaker 1: our lifetimes. Countless bankruptcies, uh, jobless claims in the tens

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Speaker 1: of millions, up to almost forty million, I think, and counting.

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Speaker 1: What is how do you explain this resiliency in the

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Speaker 1: stock market. Well, let's tackle that in pieces. So the

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Speaker 1: economic data, yeah, it looks terrible, but it looks terrible

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Speaker 1: because we've basically condensed all of it, in all this

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Speaker 1: negative news and negative action into just a couple of months.

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Speaker 1: So we are going to look really bad in terms

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Speaker 1: of GDP, and we are going to look really bad

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Speaker 1: in terms of employment numbers because we basically asked the

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Speaker 1: economy to go on hold. So I'm really looking through

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Speaker 1: the economic data right now. I think the market is

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Speaker 1: certainly looking through it. We understand that, you know, jobless

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Speaker 1: claims came out in the millions. Again, if we'd had

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Speaker 1: that in a normal environment, yes, it would have caused

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Speaker 1: shock and and fear throughout the investment community. But it's

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Speaker 1: not a normal environment, and so we're seeing this large

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Speaker 1: number of unemployed. I think that's being taken as power

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Speaker 1: for the course right now. We understand that we have

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Speaker 1: ask businesses to close their doors, and that's what's happening

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Speaker 1: right now. So the economic data, I think is is

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Speaker 1: you got to take it with, you know, several pounds

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Speaker 1: of salt and recognize that it's abnormal. This is not

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Speaker 1: we're not normal times. This is certainly not normal data,

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Speaker 1: and the market is really looking past that. So taking

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Speaker 1: the data with, as you said, pounds of salt, not

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Speaker 1: even grains of salt. But going into this, a lot

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Speaker 1: of people were saying, Okay, watch the initial claims data,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like that's what people always say about

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Speaker 1: the economy. It's a leading indicator can probably tell you

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Speaker 1: where the economy is headed. Well, now we know that

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Speaker 1: week after we we continue to get claims data in

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Speaker 1: the millions. We know that it is bad. But to

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Speaker 1: gadge whether or not we are potentially seeing a bottom

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Speaker 1: at some point, what can you watch? There? Is there

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Speaker 1: anything you can I'm not sure there is anything that

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Speaker 1: you can because our standard metrics that we've used in

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Speaker 1: the past don't apply right now, so the claims data

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Speaker 1: can be really misleading. How do you aggregate the claims

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Speaker 1: data and then incorporate the p p P plan that

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Speaker 1: came out and so different employers are, you know, did

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Speaker 1: they get their p p P did they not? Are

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Speaker 1: they taking employees that were furloughed or fired? Are they

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Speaker 1: being able to bring them back on? So that data

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Speaker 1: is all different. We also had to change in our

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Speaker 1: unemployment benefits, so those that were fired that are collecting unemployment,

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Speaker 1: the cushion for them on unemployment might extend longer, when

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Speaker 1: they come back to work might change. So I think

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Speaker 1: our historic signposts of what we observed to say this

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Speaker 1: is the bottom we're coming out of it are no

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Speaker 1: longer applicable and we really have to look past them.

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Speaker 1: I think you have to be creative, and I think

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Speaker 1: it's more of a field thing than a numbers thing

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Speaker 1: right now to see when the economy is getting back

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Speaker 1: in its groove. But I think, as you said, you know,

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Speaker 1: the market sort of looking through the fog to the

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Speaker 1: recovery embedded in that is kind of a very optimistic

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Speaker 1: sense that it will be a short recovery. Uh. I

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Speaker 1: know we've all heard V shaped and YOU shaped and

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Speaker 1: L shaped. I feel like it's it's like Sesame Street.

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Speaker 1: You know, the the economy is sponsored by the letter

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Speaker 1: you this week or the letter L. I look, I'm

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Speaker 1: at heart, I'm an optimist. Um, I just can't see

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Speaker 1: a V shape recovery in this. Uh. Taking hold, I

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Speaker 1: I do not know what letter shape it will be. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, as far as those jobs claims that there

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Speaker 1: was a story in the Times this week quoting a

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Speaker 1: Stanford economist and again with any prediction, any forecast, I agree.

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Speaker 1: I I take a pound of salt with it, like

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Speaker 1: my French fries. Uh Uh. But but you know, this

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Speaker 1: economist at Stanford is saying something like forty some percent

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Speaker 1: of these layoffs will be either permanent or you know,

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Speaker 1: somewhat permanent. I mean, even at that forty some percent,

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Speaker 1: I mean we're talking about a massive uh damage to

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Speaker 1: the economy. Um, even if it's a IT and and

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Speaker 1: we're looking at I don't know, eight eight million permanently

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Speaker 1: lost jobs. I mean that is a scary scenario. Um,

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Speaker 1: are we do for a letdown? In the stock market

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Speaker 1: as the sort of the summer progresses and the fog clears,

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Speaker 1: if not a major bear market, at least some some

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Speaker 1: more volatility. Well, I think volatility is going to be

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Speaker 1: the name of the game here for the next couple

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Speaker 1: of months. I think that actually increases. And you know,

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Speaker 1: we saw that big downturn in the market, you know,

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Speaker 1: mid first quarter, and that was I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of people looking very short term on how is this

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Speaker 1: COVID nineteam going to impact the economy, how is this

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Speaker 1: going to impact the workforce? They could only see four

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Speaker 1: to six weeks out. And I think what we see

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Speaker 1: now is the market saying, all right, I understand first quarter,

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Speaker 1: second quarter numbers are irrelevant. What really matters here is

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Speaker 1: give me one Let me hear from management teams who

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Speaker 1: fortunately we're talking and broadcasting because they were reporting earnings.

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Speaker 1: Let me hear from those management teams and how they

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Speaker 1: think they're going to get through this and can they

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Speaker 1: get to you know, how are they handling it all.

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Speaker 1: I think that's given the market a lot of confidence

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Speaker 1: and it's changed the investor's perspective. And so that's why

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Speaker 1: we've seen this look through now to where are we

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Speaker 1: as we go out six months, twelve months. There's no

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Speaker 1: question that we've got emotion in this market. And I

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Speaker 1: think you see a whipsa on now and for the

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Speaker 1: foreseeable future, a lot of back and forth, because, as

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Speaker 1: Sarah mentioned earlier, if there's talk of a vaccine, there's

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Speaker 1: great joy and you know, investment coming in new money.

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Speaker 1: Let's go to work. The market's back. If there's not

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Speaker 1: a vaccine, then it's a oh well, how long is

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Speaker 1: this going to take again? And we're back to talking

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Speaker 1: about letters. You know, I think the worst thing that

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Speaker 1: could happen is we get a w right return. That's

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Speaker 1: not what we want, and so we took a lot

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Speaker 1: of actions up front, hair to true really put the

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Speaker 1: economy on pause. We're now saying we'll slowly open the

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Speaker 1: gates back up and you can start moving again. And

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Speaker 1: I think it's that gradual return that people are going

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Speaker 1: to be tracking, and it is going to be influenced

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Speaker 1: by what people see. So management teams who are talking

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Speaker 1: about earnings are the best vehicle for information right now

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Speaker 1: on how their businesses are doing. And not only did

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Speaker 1: we pay attention right now, but we're going to be

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Speaker 1: paid attention closely when they're out there in July talking

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Speaker 1: about their second quarter and how do things happen, how

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Speaker 1: do they feel, and more importantly, what do they see

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Speaker 1: for the third and fourth quarter, because we don't know

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Speaker 1: what's going to happen on the employment front. I think

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Speaker 1: where we're seeing a lot from the publicly traded companies,

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Speaker 1: and I feel comfortable with the publicly traded companies who

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Speaker 1: have access to the public markets for capital. You know,

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Speaker 1: what we really do is feel the pressure on the

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Speaker 1: small business. And this economy has been driven by the consumer.

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Speaker 1: That consumer is driven by employment and a lot of

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Speaker 1: that employment happens at these small businesses. So I think

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Speaker 1: the market is going to start to tune in on

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Speaker 1: that and that return to jobs, the return of the

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Speaker 1: small business is going to be an important factor and

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Speaker 1: I think be the primary thing that the market is

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Speaker 1: going to focus on as we get into the fall.

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Speaker 1: So you mentioned there that you guys are really awaiting

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Speaker 1: second quarter earning season so you can listen to commentary

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Speaker 1: there maybe learn a bit about what executives are saying

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Speaker 1: about the end of the year. Also, in a way,

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Speaker 1: does that mean that we're on just hold right now?

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Speaker 1: That we're going to be stuck in this pattern until

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Speaker 1: we get any more information. Because you also were talking

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Speaker 1: about the markets looking through to one, and something I

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Speaker 1: find so amazing is that right now, if you look

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Speaker 1: at analysts estimates, one but just about match what earnings

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Speaker 1: were in two thousand and nineteen when we had peak

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Speaker 1: earnings for the SMP five hundred, and to me, it's

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Speaker 1: just very difficult to imagine a scenario where by next

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Speaker 1: year we're already back at a peak being environment. Right.

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Speaker 1: But Sarah, the fact that you're saying that at all

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Speaker 1: is I think what's already in the mindset. Analysts don't

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Speaker 1: want to adjust their numbers numerous times, and they don't

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Speaker 1: have enough data to adjust the numbers, and and you

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Speaker 1: know they're going to be guessing if they take it

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Speaker 1: down to something because they don't know what that something

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Speaker 1: level is. So I think people expect that one to be,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think a lower number. I think they

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Speaker 1: expect those estimates to have to come down. But the

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Speaker 1: market is truly flying blind here. This is an exogenous

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Speaker 1: event that came in from out of the blue. When

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Speaker 1: you have something like this hit, it's a completely different

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Speaker 1: impact on our business economics and how we would value businesses.

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Speaker 1: Because my cash flow that normally is determinant of how

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Speaker 1: I'm valuing that stock today is suddenly on pause and disruption.

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Speaker 1: So what does it take to resume that, Hopefully it's

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Speaker 1: only a couple of quarters a year and then we're

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Speaker 1: back on track. We don't really know. But again it

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Speaker 1: goes back to if you're if you're trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out how to value these businesses, the only way to

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Speaker 1: do it with some sense of certainty is as much

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Speaker 1: as an investor can be certain is you've got to

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Speaker 1: look out longer and longer on that time horizon to

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Speaker 1: try and make your data fit into something that could

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Speaker 1: be real. Yeah. I was reading the Goldman Sacks. They

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Speaker 1: do that Paige book report on their earning season, something

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Speaker 1: like a hundred and eight s and p five companies

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Speaker 1: withdrew guidance. I mean that makes sense, Mike, because if

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Speaker 1: you weren't withdrawing guidance, what are you guiding on? Right,

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Speaker 1: You're looking into a black hole. You have no idea

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Speaker 1: what's there. And so I actually think that was somewhat

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Speaker 1: comforting to the market. As they got used to it.

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Speaker 1: They started hearing this more and more because if managements

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Speaker 1: came out and said, all right, I'm changing guidance and

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Speaker 1: then they change it again next quarter, I think that's

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Speaker 1: an emotional upset again and again. I looked at the

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Speaker 1: companies that we own and the management teams that we

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Speaker 1: heard from, and the ones who withdrew guidance gave me

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Speaker 1: lots of color around this is what's happening. We don't

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Speaker 1: know how the numbers are going to pan out, but

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Speaker 1: this is where we think we'll, you know, get to

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Speaker 1: just operationally without attaching numbers to it. Those are management

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Speaker 1: teams I respect a lot, and it gave me a

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Speaker 1: lot of comfort that Listen, they're managing their business through this,

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Speaker 1: and that's all I can ask for right now. Yah know,

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Speaker 1: I I agree it makes total sense and it is

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Speaker 1: the right thing for them to do. UM. But if

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Speaker 1: I hear companies withdrawing its guidance, it doesn't make me go,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I'm want to buy that start right now? Right?

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Speaker 1: Maybe you know, Sarah, maybe it's because I'm I'm a

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Speaker 1: little bit on the older end of the UH the

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Speaker 1: investors spectrum. I'm looking to save preserve what I have

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Speaker 1: rather than UH than UH you know, take some risk um,

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Speaker 1: you know, and and Susan maybe that's a big part

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Speaker 1: of it. It It all depends on your risk, your risk appetite. Well,

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Speaker 1: it does. And so what happened with all of this

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Speaker 1: as well, right, interest rates went back down to zero.

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Speaker 1: And what happened the last time interest rates were in

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Speaker 1: zero People were forced into the stock market because they

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Speaker 1: had no alternative. So we've seen interest rates go down

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Speaker 1: across the board. You're still looking for an outlet. Institutional

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Speaker 1: investors need to be invested in something that gives them

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Speaker 1: a return. I think there's no guidance for the next

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Speaker 1: couple of quarters, but I've got business models and businesses

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Speaker 1: that I'm pretty sure we'll still have cash flow as

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Speaker 1: I go forward. And again I'm looking at all, right,

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Speaker 1: if I can get a free cash flow yield off

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Speaker 1: of a company and it's a positive number, that's ahead

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Speaker 1: of what I'm getting somewhere else, and that's ahead of

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Speaker 1: anything the Treasury is going to offer me. So I

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Speaker 1: hear what you're saying. But I think we had another

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Speaker 1: influence there that is reminding people that your best alternative

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Speaker 1: here is probably going to be equities, and that helped

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Speaker 1: accelerate some of the flow and some of the optimism

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Speaker 1: that we'll get through this alright. So, I mean we

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Speaker 1: we've heard from the Fed, we got five minutes out

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Speaker 1: this past week, and I think everyone understands that lower

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Speaker 1: for longer is the name of the game. I mean,

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Speaker 1: interest rates are not going back up any time soon.

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Speaker 1: If you look at the relative return on bonds for

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Speaker 1: stocks and you think about where you want to be

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Speaker 1: positioned for the future, how much optimism then can that

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Speaker 1: actually propel within the equity market. It seems like, okay, well,

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Speaker 1: if you have interest rates at zero, does that mean

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Speaker 1: you can just have I mean theoretically and probably not.

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Speaker 1: I mean an infinite pe multiple on the stock market.

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Speaker 1: I don't think infinite, but I think clearly higher is

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Speaker 1: what has resulted. And so we're effectively trying to guess

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Speaker 1: a earnings estimates and attach some sort of multiple to that.

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Speaker 1: I think everything's got to be relative right now. So

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Speaker 1: just as we saw multiple expansion, is you know, interest

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Speaker 1: rates dropped to zero in our recovery from the Great Recession,

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Speaker 1: we are seeing multiple expansion. Is We're not really sure

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Speaker 1: if you go off on a number, Undoubtedly we see

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Speaker 1: multiple expansion. Is these stocks have bounced back. We're up

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Speaker 1: over from the lows. You know, you've really seen that

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Speaker 1: recovery happen in the market. We're down ten plus percent

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Speaker 1: year to date, and you know, there is a confidence

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Speaker 1: in the market. It's not clear what that forward multiple

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Speaker 1: should be, but I do think it's a relative game.

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Speaker 1: Where else am I going to go? Because if I

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Speaker 1: put it in Europe, I'm on a ten year I've

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Speaker 1: got negative rates. I definitely don't want that. So I'm

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Speaker 1: again being forced back into what's my best option. It's

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Speaker 1: hard to find a positive yield right now. So certainly

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Speaker 1: anything that can give me a positive yield about and

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Speaker 1: a positive yield well above zero even, you know, a

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Speaker 1: dividend yield at two percent right now for a business

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Speaker 1: that you think is going to be able to sustain

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Speaker 1: itself and recover is probably looking pretty attractive to some investors. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, the perennial discussion we've had over the years,

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Speaker 1: at least I've had with a lot of people who's

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Speaker 1: you know, uh, what interest rates start to pick up?

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Speaker 1: What is the level where it sort of spooks the

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Speaker 1: stock market? Um, you know, and years passed it was, well,

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Speaker 1: was it a three percent ten year yield? Is it

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Speaker 1: a four percent ten year yield? I mean, I wonder

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Speaker 1: where it is now? Is it? I have no idea

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Speaker 1: I know, and it's really hard and it seems to

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Speaker 1: have every time. We're back at zero rates. Right now,

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Speaker 1: the second time we've done this, we're seemingly at a

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Speaker 1: lower level. I think there's a lot to be driven

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Speaker 1: by people's comfort level around the economy and how the

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Speaker 1: recovery is progressing, just like we saw, you know, just

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Speaker 1: this last time. And so it really is how does

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Speaker 1: that underlying business feel. How much demand do we have

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Speaker 1: from the US? Can sumer? We have a couple of

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Speaker 1: different drivers here. Also, we've got manufacturing potentially coming back

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Speaker 1: on shore, you know, so we have business in some

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Speaker 1: respects moving back into the US. That could be a positive.

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Speaker 1: We certainly have pressure on small businesses that are going

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Speaker 1: to be moving out or have just been disrupted out

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Speaker 1: of existence. But at the same time, I've got I

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Speaker 1: think a pretty resilient base from the large companies who

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Speaker 1: seem to be weathering the storm. And I think the

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Speaker 1: market who looks at these large polically traded companies is

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Speaker 1: taking confidence from the queues they're getting there all right,

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Speaker 1: So then in this type of environment, considering relative returns

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Speaker 1: when you look across assets, of course your team is

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Speaker 1: focused on equities anyways, But what's your team actually doing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, are you guys advising that people be fully

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Speaker 1: invested in this scenario? Should you be a little bit

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Speaker 1: more on the defensive side currently? I mean, what do

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Speaker 1: you actually do, especially after we've seen a nice thirty

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Speaker 1: five percent rebound from the March twenty blows Well, I

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Speaker 1: think that's the hard part right now. So we are

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Speaker 1: invested in equities, and you know, I have I have

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Speaker 1: pension funds, endowments, foundations who give me a portion of

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Speaker 1: their endowment, pension fund trust, whatever it may be, and

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Speaker 1: say invest this. My job is not to hold cash

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Speaker 1: for that. My job is to invest it and deploy

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Speaker 1: it into the stock market. So, you know, we think

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Speaker 1: that equities do still offer a lot of potential. We're

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Speaker 1: positive on it as an asset class. I think within

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Speaker 1: equities it's where we move and we've been really busy.

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Speaker 1: When you have this much volatility, you do see opportunities

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Speaker 1: and I think that you're able to as a stockpicker,

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Speaker 1: be able to come out of this ahead of the game.

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Speaker 1: So for us, my analysts have been working non stop

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Speaker 1: digging into the different businesses because you do see pricing

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Speaker 1: dislocations and you find have suddenly, when you have a

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Speaker 1: dislocation like this in the market, you suddenly have an

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Speaker 1: opportunity to buy companies at a price that you know

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Speaker 1: you didn't think was going to be possible. Well, and

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Speaker 1: it may be a business that you think is a

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Speaker 1: great business model, you've always wanted to own it, but

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Speaker 1: we're evaluation sensitive, so we were never able to afford

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Speaker 1: it before, and suddenly now I can put that in

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Speaker 1: the portfolio. I think you all, what you end up

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Speaker 1: buying all depends on your timeframe, and I think that's

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Speaker 1: where you'll see the difference between portfolios. But I do

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Speaker 1: think there's a lot of opportunity for actual stock picking,

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Speaker 1: and we have not had a lot of environments where

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Speaker 1: you can say that in over the last couple of years,

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Speaker 1: and so the fact that this is coming back to

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Speaker 1: the forefront, I do think that makes a difference, and

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Speaker 1: it's giving us a lot of room in our portfolios

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Speaker 1: to find stuff that we think is going to be,

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Speaker 1: you know, a great place to be for the next

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Speaker 1: not just quarter, but several years. I'm glad you brought

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Speaker 1: up the proverbial stock pickers. Uh there's uh some notes

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Speaker 1: you sent around and I wanted to ask you about

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Speaker 1: that because I think it's a really important point. Um Um.

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Speaker 1: You say, important swings back to active managers who can

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Speaker 1: sort of take advantage of this look ocations in the market. Um.

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Speaker 1: I will say, Susan, I've done this job for a while.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how many times I've heard it's time

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Speaker 1: for the return of the stock becker. They're coming back,

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Speaker 1: They're coming. But I will say I do agree with

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Speaker 1: you that this time is different. I mean, if ever

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Speaker 1: there was a sort of fertile ground for more active

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Speaker 1: managers to be able to beat the index, and now

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Speaker 1: was obviously the time. But I will say one thing though,

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Speaker 1: went and Sarah had a story. Sarah, I confess I

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Speaker 1: read the headline. I haven't read the full story yet,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but but it was about how the

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Speaker 1: the DLL average is kind of a dog right now

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Speaker 1: because of obviously because of the you know, the sectors

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Speaker 1: with the heaviest waiting in it. Um. So I would say,

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Speaker 1: you know, an active manager could come to me and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna beat the SMP this year. Look, we we

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Speaker 1: beat the SMP this last quarter, and I feel like

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Speaker 1: people would push back and say congratulations, But I switched

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Speaker 1: to the nasdack one hundred. Come back to me away,

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Speaker 1: and you're beating that, Right, I moved to something else, right?

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Speaker 1: You know? Is there this risk of sort of benchmark

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Speaker 1: drift into uh, you know, into the indexes that that

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Speaker 1: better represent, like the nazac on that that represent sort

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Speaker 1: of those what appear to behavings in this environment. You

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Speaker 1: your Facebook's, your biotechs. I think there always is that

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Speaker 1: tendency to I want to be invested in what's been successful,

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Speaker 1: so I chase after it. We're seeing a lot of

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Speaker 1: hints as to what the future might hold. We've seen

429
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 1: these disruptor industries come into play over the last couple

430
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: of years, but during this crisis, we've actually seen new

431
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 1: technologies be forced to have that uptake ratio increase. Right,

432
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 1: people have to use them. So I have friends grandparents

433
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 1: who never ordered anything online are suddenly amazed at the

434
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 1: convenience of this and look what they can do. Um right,

435
00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 1: finally being pushed into this mode. And I do think

436
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 1: that we are seeing a lot of new industries coming

437
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 1: into play. The resiliency of the restaurant scene in Chicago

438
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 1: where I sit has been amazing to me. Where when

439
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 1: the crisis first hit, as you can see, I'm still

440
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:19,160
Speaker 1: in the office, but walking home at night right businesses

441
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 1: were shutter doors were closed. However, now I walk home

442
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,919
Speaker 1: and there are lines of people outside the different restaurants

443
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: waiting for pick up. I see Uber cars, lift cars,

444
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: grub Hub delivery everywhere, and so we're seeing these new

445
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 1: industries and new delivery mechanisms pop up, and I think

446
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 1: that some of that will stick, maybe not a hundred percent,

447
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 1: but it's not going back to zero. So I do

448
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 1: think that, you know, we are seeing a shift. If

449
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 1: you like the you know, top one in the Nasdack,

450
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 1: you're doing that because you see the power of those businesses.

451
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: That's not to say there's not something still great to

452
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 1: buy in the S and P five hundred. So again

453
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,239
Speaker 1: it's really a matter of comfort. The Dow is a

454
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 1: tough place to be right now because it is only

455
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: thirty stocks. Remember what you're getting when you buy these indicries.

456
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: Not everyone looks through it. So I think that's also

457
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 1: a cautionary tale when you buy an index, you better

458
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 1: make sure you know what's in it, because sometimes you're

459
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: surprised and it's not to the positive. I will say, sorry, Sarah,

460
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: I gotta interject though, I gotta agree with Susan on

461
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 1: the restaurant seed in Chicago. I think I gained ten

462
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: pounds the last time I was in Chicago, and I like,

463
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: I was there for a long weekend and I think

464
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: I used pizza something. Have a great restaurant scene here.

465
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 1: I think it's one of the hidden secrets of the city.

466
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: People don't appreciate great chefs in the city, and you

467
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: really do, totally. I ate like eight meals a day.

468
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: And I'll say, in New Jersey were snobby about food.

469
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,640
Speaker 1: I mean, everyone gives Jersey a hard knock, but we are.

470
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: We've got a good food seed and we're snobby about it.

471
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: So that that is a compliment to Chicago, a rare

472
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: compliment for me. Once things get back to normal, Well,

473
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: I'll take a trip out to see Susan in Chicago

474
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 1: and we'll we eight meals a day. I have I've

475
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: got I've got plenty of places for us to try.

476
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:08,120
Speaker 1: So they're going on, it's going on Stair's expense account. Though,

477
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: all right, I'll take it. I'll take it just for now,

478
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: but don't hold me to it months from now or

479
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 1: whenever that might be. But Mike, something that has been

480
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 1: crazy about this whole crisis is the reality that it's

481
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 1: sped up technological innovation that we have seen these dislocations

482
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: across indexes. Because although everyone thought that when we had

483
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 1: to sell off the very large internet and tech companies

484
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: would lead on the way down, I mean, they're excelling

485
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,919
Speaker 1: right now. And to a lot of people, it's crazy.

486
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 1: It is crazy. It is part of the optimism that

487
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: drives the market. Right. It's creative destruction. We've seen that before, right,

488
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: old business models start to go to the wayside, new

489
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 1: business models take share and take over. And so this

490
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 1: is you know, this is one of those interesting moments

491
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 1: when you step back and look at a multi year

492
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: time frame where you are seeing the technology lergy really

493
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 1: infiltrate and force society. The circumstances are forcing society and

494
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 1: social norms to change and adapt a lot of that technology. So,

495
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: you know, I always I always think that at the

496
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: end of my career, I'm going to go back and

497
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: look at these really poignant moments where you saw a shift,

498
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 1: and this is going to be one of them, without question.

499
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 1: You know, Mike, I cued you up pretty solidly, and

500
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: I don't think you even realized that you did. You did.

501
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: That was pretty That was pretty good. That was pretty good.

502
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: So as I don't know if they warned you about

503
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: our our craziest thing. We saw a gimmick. Um, I

504
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: trust you you you came with something. But Sarah, we

505
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: we did get a voicemail into the what Goes Up

506
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 1: hotline call. Now I feel like Wolfman Jack now that

507
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: every time, maybe maybe more people will call it them.

508
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 1: That's right. Uh, let's let's give a listen to that. Hi.

509
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 1: I'm Philip from Review. I actually work on Blooment. I'm

510
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 1: calling to what's going up and the cree the thing

511
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: that I find market. So today's Pride May fifteen and

512
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: hearing Brazil we are just change our health minister for

513
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: the second time in the pandemic thirty days. So yeah,

514
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: that's great. So the second Brazilian health minister in thirty

515
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: days not really market related, but I guess everything market

516
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: is now health related. I guess the two have become

517
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: inextricably entwined. You know, it's funny because I feel like

518
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:34,120
Speaker 1: there's this there's this biotech pharma group of investors who

519
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 1: know how to read a press release about a clinical trial,

520
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: and then there's the rest of us idiots who who think, oh,

521
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 1: my gosh, cure that. You know, the clinical trial with

522
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: eight patients, no one drew a third eye, it's over.

523
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: You know what I mean Like there is that you know,

524
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: it's human nature to want to solve this problem and

525
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: move fast it. So the minute there's a hint of

526
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: a cure out there, people are leaping on that. It

527
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: is interesting because even without this, biotech has become a bigger,

528
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: bigger part of the indicase right, and these companies have

529
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: really grown. So now we're seeing that continue to in

530
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: the repercussions of that continue to move the market because

531
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: we have seen huge jumps and things that businesses that

532
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: I've never heard of that suddenly, you know, haveing they've

533
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: got a cure, They've got some sort of solution for this.

534
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: And it's human nature to want to be able to

535
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: say that there's a solution and this problem is going

536
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: to go away. So yes, I do think we've seen that.

537
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: I think it's too soon to tell, and I know

538
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: that I am not one of those people who can

539
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 1: read those FDA trials and say, phase one, phase two,

540
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: this is what it means. So I'm not going to

541
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: be able to pick that one company out of hundreds

542
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: that may get it. But I can think about how

543
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: that's going to impact the rest of the world and

544
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: other business models. Sarah. Here vaccines are the new blockchain

545
00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: vaccines but shooting up everywhere biotech company you. I feel

546
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 1: like McDonald's is gonna say we're working on a vaccine

547
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: and their stock is gonna double overnight, like like the

548
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 1: Long Island iced tea and blockchain company from a few

549
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: years ago, Ang Island Blockchain. I was just about to

550
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 1: say that my mind, Mike, But al right, sir, it's

551
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: time for you to bring it. What's the craziest thing

552
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: you saw this week? But first, I do want to

553
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: remind everyone after we did hear that voicemail and from

554
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: Brazil that no matter what country you're in, you can

555
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: call our podcast hotline, and that number for you is

556
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: six four six three two four three for nine zero.

557
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: We always love hearing what you have to say, and

558
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: maybe we'll even play it on the show. So Mike, first,

559
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 1: I'm actually going to start with an email that I got,

560
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: So not a tweet, not a voicemail, but an email

561
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: that I got old fash listener have old fashioned, right,

562
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: but because it touches on this biotech topic, and really

563
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: what's crazy about it was more so the timing of

564
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,719
Speaker 1: this email more than anything. His name is a Phil Ciska.

565
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: He's a managing partner over at Green Mountain Investment Partners,

566
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: and he sent me this lengthy email about Maderna over

567
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: the weekends and he was essentially talking about how the

568
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: former director of Maderna was introduced last week in the

569
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: White House Rose Garden as chief Scientists and going on

570
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: and on about Maderna, and then we all know what

571
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: happened next. On Monday, the trial news came out, Maderna spike,

572
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: and then the next day the stat News report came

573
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: out and Maderna dropped ten percent um. So we'll take

574
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: the positive as we can right now, but it really

575
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: is unbelievable everyone just having to read stat News, everyone

576
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,719
Speaker 1: having to really focus on what's going on with FDA

577
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: UH trials and try to glean what the outcome might be,

578
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: you know, very excellent news source stat News. I've never

579
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: heard of it before of all this, and I'll probably

580
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: i'll probably quickly forget about it once this is all gone.

581
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: But they are good, a good source during all this.

582
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: Um So a shout out to them and anyone they're

583
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: having a birthday this week. Alright, Susan, you're on the

584
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: hot seat. What do you have? Not so crazy? But

585
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: let's go back to just the what's become routine for us.

586
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: I saw a market where small caps were up over

587
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: six percent in one day this week. So we forget

588
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: how this is not normal. You know, we forget how

589
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: different the environment has become right now. And you know,

590
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: we talk about these extreme things, but in our regular world,

591
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: having the market up six percent in one day, that's

592
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: not normal. That is a crazy thing, and we forget

593
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: that because we're in such a strange environment right now.

594
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: And so, you know, going back to where we started

595
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: the conversation, volatility is here, and we've seen it creep

596
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 1: up the last couple of years. We've seen moments of it,

597
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: but I really think the next couple of months, because

598
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: we have all this anticipation, whether it's you know, moderna.

599
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: Someone's coming out with a new vaccine, we've got a

600
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: new cure. States are opening up and people are fine.

601
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: Nothing spiked up yet that easily can be reversed, as

602
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: we've seen with well the trial was only on eight

603
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: people in a mouse and well the sustans did open up.

604
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: But now we've had a hot spot occur and we've

605
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: got more cases. So be prepared because I think that

606
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: volatility is really here. And and again, if I had

607
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: heard that there was a six percent up in one

608
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: day early in my career, I would have said, really,

609
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: it just seems so extreme. And yet now it's because

610
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: it become common for us. It really is unbelievable. And

611
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: all that same day I was looking at the equal

612
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: weight SMP five hundred outperformed the regular marketcout weight at

613
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 1: SMP by the most. It's two thousand and nine, and

614
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: we're all just sitting here watching our terminals, going on

615
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: about our days if it's any other day, because it's

616
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: just normal right now, right mine is okay. We all

617
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: know who the famous author in the seem celeb is.

618
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: He he wrote the Black Swan. He's had a resurgence

619
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: in sort of his profile because the hedge fund he advises,

620
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: UH killed it during this whole event because they invest

621
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: with a tell risk strategy, in other words, really far

622
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 1: out of the money options. And you guys know who

623
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 1: he is, right. And there's another guy we all know,

624
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: Cliff Fastness, the founder of a q R, one of

625
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 1: the biggest quant fund UH groups out there. Well, these

626
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: two guys got into one of the most ferocious Twitter

627
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: battles I've ever seen in the history of financial Twitter.

628
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: And sire, yes, you know, there's been some pretty nasty ones.

629
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 1: And so they and insults back and forth. It all started.

630
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:39,879
Speaker 1: UH Talib accused uh Astness of some research that sort

631
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: of UH did not treat tell tale risk kedging with

632
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: respect he thought it should be treated. And back and

633
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: forth they went to The insults were so bad I'm

634
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 1: afraid to actually read them on the show. I feel

635
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 1: like our our corporate attorney at Bloomberg will be beyond

636
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: my back if I read them. But I'll give you

637
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 1: a couple uh and and I will point out both

638
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: of these guys are absolutely brilliant, among the sharpest minds

639
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: UH in the investing world. I will admit I'm not

640
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: smart enough to do the research and figure it out

641
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: who's right in this debate. But I am confident in

642
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,879
Speaker 1: my ability to judge a winner in an insult comedy war.

643
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: And I got to give it to Cliff because his

644
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 1: his one comeback was and Cliffs quick Twitter about a

645
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 1: thousand times a year and come back, you know, to say,

646
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: and one more thing. But he said, I have to

647
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: stop now. This is not productive. It's like being met

648
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: at a skunk. So you hit it with a tennis racket.

649
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:41,720
Speaker 1: So I I I'm gonna award Cliff the winner of this, uh,

650
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: this war, at least the insult part. I don't know

651
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 1: about the market stuff over my head. Never heard that

652
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: insult before, but I believe it was Thursday night. This

653
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: was my bedtime reading. I was sitting on my phone

654
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: scrolling through Twitter looking at the insult. It's just my

655
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: mouth gaping wide open, and then I tried to fall asleep.

656
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: That's the normal day and night these days. So absolutely,

657
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: your Susan, if you want to insult both of those guys,

658
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:14,479
Speaker 1: we could make this thing go viral. I can see

659
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 1: I missed the Twitter exchange there, but I can see

660
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 1: how it would occur. And you've got different sides of

661
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 1: the coin. Here we have people who are super optimistic

662
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,319
Speaker 1: jumping right back in. You've got investors who are still

663
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 1: a little nervous, you know, hanging out on the sidelines,

664
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:29,879
Speaker 1: and so I can see how that would go back

665
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 1: and forth. I would not step in front of a

666
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: tweet from Cliff Asness by any stretch of imagination, and

667
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 1: definitely not. And I agree with them it's not productive

668
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 1: because there's no winner. You don't know what's going on.

669
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: Um that. Yes, I have the utmost respect for both

670
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 1: of them, and you can see how they both come

671
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 1: at it from very different angles. Yeah, I agree. I'm

672
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: not going to get in a fight with either one

673
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 1: of those guys. Right, No, no insults on this show,

674
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: at least for today, and especially not directed at either

675
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: of those two, at least not one that mentions a skunk.

676
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: So there you go. Definitely not uh. But with that

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00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: said Susan Smith, thank you so much for joining us

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00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: on the show today, and everyone enjoy your long weekends.

679
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 1: And happy birthday to that guy what's his name? Happy

680
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: birthday to Michael Gross, that guy, as Mike Reagan would say, well,

681
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. What goes up? We'll be back

682
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: next week until then you can find us on the

683
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 1: Bluemberg terminal website and app, or wherever you get your podcasts.

684
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 1: We love it if you took the time to rate

685
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: interview the show on Apple Podcasts so more listeners can

686
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 1: find us. And you can find us on Twitter, follow

687
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: me at at Sara pant Sack, Mike is that Reagan Anonymous,

688
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 1: and you can also follow us on Bloomberg Podcasts at podcasts.

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00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 1: What Goes Up is produced by Topur Forehead. The head

690
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: of Bloomberg podcast is Francesca Leavie. Thanks for listening, See

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00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 1: you next time. Do not wanting