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Speaker 1: Hi, guys, welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I'll

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Speaker 1: be your host Emily Simpson with my co host Shane Shane.

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Speaker 1: Just Shane, we are. I'm actually very excited about this

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Speaker 1: episode today. We are doing the Delphi murders which occurred

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Speaker 1: back in twenty seventeen and a rural town in Indiana, which,

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Speaker 1: if you guys remember, I'm from Ohio, so it feels

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Speaker 1: very Midwest to me, very homie like.

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Speaker 2: I understand, these are your people.

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Speaker 1: These are my people, these are my people. However, I

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Speaker 1: did not know that much about this case before taking

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Speaker 1: a deep dive into it to be able to record

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Speaker 1: this podcast today, because you know, I love to research.

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Speaker 1: I drive my producer nuts. I well, you drive me nuts,

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Speaker 1: I drive you nuts. But I drive her nuts too

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Speaker 1: because I text her constantly. I'm probably by far the

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Speaker 1: most annoying podcast client she has. Anyway, once I started

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Speaker 1: to dive into this case, it kind of reminded me

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Speaker 1: of Car and Read and I'll tell you why. We'll

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Speaker 1: get into it more as we go through this case.

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Speaker 1: But upon the cursory review of this case, it seems

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Speaker 1: kind of simple. Whereas you have a murder, you have

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Speaker 1: a double homicide. You have two young girls that were

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Speaker 1: killed when they're out walking on a trail. It takes

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Speaker 1: several years for police, they find the killer, supposedly allegedly.

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Speaker 1: He goes to trial and he's convicted.

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Speaker 3: You mean, if you look at the basic structure of it,

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Speaker 3: it's like murder, right, you know, capture suspect, conviction, one

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Speaker 3: hundred and sixty years in jail.

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Speaker 2: Right, Oh, sorry, right, I mean.

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Speaker 1: Give him that thirty years. But then this case, once

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Speaker 1: I took a deep dive into it, I was like,

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Speaker 1: this is very very complex. There are layers. There is

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Speaker 1: this whole dark side that's going to that we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about later. I feel like maybe there's some

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Speaker 1: conspiracies going on that are way more complex than meets

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Speaker 1: the eye. And that's really reminded me of Karen Reid,

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Speaker 1: because remember when we first talked about Karen Reid, and

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Speaker 1: I just gave you the facts of the case, it

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Speaker 1: was like they were out drinking, she got drunk, she

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Speaker 1: dropped him off, they find his body in the snow.

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Speaker 1: It seems simplistic, like, of course she just hit. She

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Speaker 1: seemed guilty, right, she looks guilty. She seems guilty and

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Speaker 1: then you'd take a deep dive into it, and it's like,

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Speaker 1: there's all this question my question, conspiracy resulted more questions, right,

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Speaker 1: and I feel the same way about this case. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: let's just do a brief synopsis of what happened in

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Speaker 1: this case. So on February thirteenth of twenty seventeen, best

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Speaker 1: friends Liberty who goes by Libby German, she was fourteen

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Speaker 1: at the time, and Abigail, who goes by Abby Williams,

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Speaker 1: was thirteen. They went for a walk along the Monan

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Speaker 1: High Bridge trail in Delphi, Indiana. Now I know that

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Speaker 1: they had the day off of school and that I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure which girl, but an older sister dropped them off.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: The girl's bodies were discovered the next day in a

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Speaker 1: wooded area, which is close by the place where they

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Speaker 1: were last seen or where they disappeared. A major development

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Speaker 1: came when investigators revealed that Libby had recorded video and

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Speaker 1: audio on her phone of a man approaching the girls

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Speaker 1: on the bridge, including his voice saying, quote, guys down

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Speaker 1: the hill. That recording became central to the investigation. However,

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Speaker 1: for over five years, the case remained unsolved, despite national

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Speaker 1: attention public tips and multiple sketches released by police of

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Speaker 1: the alleged perpetrator. In October of twenty twenty two, authorities

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Speaker 1: arrested Richard Allen, who was age fifty at the time.

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Speaker 1: He was a Delphi resident who worked at a local

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Speaker 1: CVS and had no prior criminal record. Prosecutors alleged that

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Speaker 1: Allan acted alone, though his defense attorneys claimed that he

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Speaker 1: is being framed. Law enforcements mishandling of this investigation has

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Speaker 1: caused many people to believe that Richard Allen is not

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Speaker 1: the perpetrator and that the actual murderer or murderers are

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Speaker 1: still walking free. Now, if you want to dive deeper

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Speaker 1: into this, this is what I watched. There's actually two

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Speaker 1: documentaries on Hulu. There's one called Capturing Their Killer, The

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Speaker 1: Girls on the High Bridge, and there's another one called

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Speaker 1: Down the Hill the Delphi Murders. I watched both of

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Speaker 1: those on Hulu. Both on Hulu. I watched both of those.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I also read there's a Frank's motion

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Speaker 1: that the defense attorney filed, which is one hundred and

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Speaker 1: thirty six pages, and I also read that as well.

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Speaker 1: Also watched a lot of YouTube videos and I also

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Speaker 1: like read it, so I took a deep dive on this.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, let's get into it and discuss, and let's

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Speaker 1: just start with the timeline of events. First of all,

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Speaker 1: Libby and Abby go missing after being dropped off near

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Speaker 1: the Moan and High Bridge in Delphi. This is on

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Speaker 1: February thirteenth. They were there for about two hours.

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Speaker 2: They were dropped off to hang out at the bridge

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Speaker 2: and they were alone.

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Speaker 1: So they were dropped off alone to go for a walk.

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Speaker 1: I think their timeframe was two hours. And then I

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Speaker 1: believe it was the dad of Libby, which is the

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Speaker 1: one that was picking them up, and he went to

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Speaker 1: pick them up. I think it was like three point

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Speaker 1: thirty was the timeframe. I think they were dropped off

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Speaker 1: around one thirty and they didn't meet him at the

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Speaker 1: meeting point. So then they start searching. They start calling,

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Speaker 1: they start calling friends. Nobody can find them. It starts

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Speaker 1: going into the evening. The police get involved. They're searching.

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Speaker 1: The next day, on February fourteenth, this is twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 1: their bodies are discovered in a wooded area close to

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Speaker 1: the trail that they were walking on. It's important to

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Speaker 1: note now the crime scene is very important. The girls

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Speaker 1: were found in a wooded area, so Libby didn't have

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Speaker 1: any clothes when she was found. Abby had clothes on,

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Speaker 1: but they were not her clothes.

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Speaker 2: They were Libby's clothes, and they were close to each other.

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Speaker 1: And they were close. They were positioned close to each other.

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Speaker 1: They also whenever they were abducted and by whomever they

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Speaker 1: were abducted by, they went down, They go off the trail,

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Speaker 1: they go down, and they also end up walking across

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Speaker 1: a creek to another embankment, which means that their clothing

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Speaker 1: would have been wet. He would have been wet.

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Speaker 2: These footprints are How did they know this?

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Speaker 1: I believe because their clothing was wet and they're on

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Speaker 1: the other side of the creek. They had to cross

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Speaker 1: a creek.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So their bodies are found based on the position

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Speaker 3: of the clothing. Obviously someone had to go that way, Okay, So.

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Speaker 1: Both of their clothing was removed. However, the corner the

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Speaker 1: medical examiners said that they couldn't find any evidence of

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Speaker 1: sexual assault. Now I don't know if there wasn't the

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Speaker 1: intent for there to be an essay and that it

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Speaker 1: just didn't happen. Because this is in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the day. I mean, we're not talking about nighttime. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about I mean, the girls were obviously pulled over

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Speaker 1: to a side of this wooded area that didn't have people.

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Speaker 1: But we're talking about in the middle of the day.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about like one point thirty in the afternoon. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So I don't know if the perpetrator or perpetrators was

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Speaker 1: spooked for some reason. Anyway, that's how the bodies were found.

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Speaker 1: It's also interesting to note that the bodies were found

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Speaker 1: positioned in a very unique way. The girls both had

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Speaker 1: branches laying on top of their bodies, but the branches

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Speaker 1: were laid on top of their bodies, not in a

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Speaker 1: haphazard way where someone was just trying to cover the bodies.

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Speaker 1: The branches were positioned in a very deliberate and distinct

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Speaker 1: way that actually made markings.

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Speaker 3: Like like like surrounding her on top of her.

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Speaker 2: Like an effort to cover her.

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Speaker 1: Though no, not in an effort to cover her. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't an attempt to take branches and leaves and cover

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Speaker 1: them to like hide the crime scene. It was a

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Speaker 1: very deliberate and distinct pattern that these branches are laid

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Speaker 1: on top of I haven't seen I've seen a recreation,

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Speaker 1: is it?

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Speaker 3: So I was just wondering, is it like a design?

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Speaker 3: Is it like like crisscross? Is it just three branches? Okay,

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Speaker 3: so it's like a chalk out line of the two bodies,

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Speaker 3: and yeah, it's like crisscross pattern, but it's done kind

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Speaker 3: of almost like a star shape or kind of a

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Speaker 3: sparkly look.

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Speaker 1: So then Abby also has tree branches that are placed

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Speaker 1: above her head that also look somewhat like a crown

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Speaker 1: the tree next to them, so Libby is laying closest

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Speaker 1: to the tree. And then the tree also has a

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Speaker 1: marking on the tree made in blood that looks like

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Speaker 1: an f So Abby was dressed in Libby's clothes while

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Speaker 1: Libby was completely naked. Bloodstains were visible on the girls

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Speaker 1: on the ground and nearby the trees. Both girls had

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Speaker 1: suffered lacerations to their throats. Abby's body was three to

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Speaker 1: five feet away from Libby's. Libby's left arm was raised

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Speaker 1: above her head while her right arm was at her side.

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Speaker 1: Abby was lying on her back with her right knee

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Speaker 1: bent slightly and her right foot under her left leg.

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Speaker 1: Some of the branches were large, and a large tree

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Speaker 1: limb was left noted on Libby's left shoulder. Also, I

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Speaker 1: read that one of the branches had a very clean

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Speaker 1: end that looked like it had been removed with some

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Speaker 1: type of clockers or something like a saw or something.

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Speaker 1: So again that goes to some type of the one

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Speaker 1: of the tree branches. I don't know, but if you

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Speaker 1: think about it, or it seems as if someone brought

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Speaker 1: the clippers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but then they only needs on one branch, which

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Speaker 3: is odd. You can't disagree with me on that one.

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Speaker 1: No, that is odd. I don't know why one of

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Speaker 1: the branches.

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Speaker 2: If they're all done and oh yeah, he brought clippers.

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Speaker 1: And again maybe that goes to also one girl's dress

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Speaker 1: and one girl isn't. I don't know if someone whoever

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Speaker 1: did this got spooked in some way, because again this

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Speaker 1: is in the middle of the day, and maybe there

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Speaker 1: were they were going to do more with the branches

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Speaker 1: or whatever. Anyway, Also, the police have been criticized for

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Speaker 1: the way they handled this crime scene. There is no

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Speaker 1: DNA that was found at the crime scene.

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Speaker 2: Wait, did we discuss the manner in which they died.

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Speaker 1: They had their throats cut. They don't know exactly with

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Speaker 1: what they I've heard or I've seen them, possibly a

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Speaker 1: box cutter or maybe some type of knife, but something.

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Speaker 2: Were killed in the same way.

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Speaker 1: Both were killed with some sharp object to lacerations to

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Speaker 1: their throat. Libby's phone is found at the scene underneath

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Speaker 1: abbey and also allegedly I don't know, I say allegedly

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Speaker 1: because I don't know how I feel about this bullet,

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Speaker 1: but there was an unspent bullet found between the two

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Speaker 1: girls and the ground. Now when I say unspent bullet,

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Speaker 1: what does that mean?

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Speaker 2: Unused?

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Speaker 1: Right? Unused? It wasn't fired. It wasn't fired. It was

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Speaker 1: And some people think or that possibly he used the gun,

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Speaker 1: because the question is if he, if he used a

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Speaker 1: knife to cut their throat, how did he or whoever

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Speaker 1: abduct them off of the trail and get them so

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Speaker 1: far away without the threat.

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Speaker 3: Well, it could be just a knife. I mean, they're

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Speaker 3: little girls. Yeah, just a knife would be scary enough.

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Speaker 1: Some people think the bullet was left there because he

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Speaker 1: maybe had a gun that he brandished.

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Speaker 3: Wait, is only one bullet was found, one bullet, unspent,

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Speaker 3: spent and they were not killed by a gun.

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Speaker 1: No data was also extracted from Libby's phone. And this

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Speaker 1: is interesting too because I don't even know where this

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Speaker 1: piece of evidence can come in, because this doesn't make

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Speaker 1: sense to me either. But the data was extracted from

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Speaker 1: Libby's phone that was found at the scene. Her phone

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Speaker 1: was found underneath abbey and it shows and the data

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Speaker 1: that her headphones or some headphones were plugged into her

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Speaker 1: phone at five forty five pm and then unplugged at

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Speaker 1: ten thirty two pm that evening. Oh wow, But her

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Speaker 1: phone was found at the scene, so I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I also I also read a little bit that maybe

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Speaker 1: possibly it could have been dirt that got into there

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Speaker 1: that activated the phone. I don't know, but I found

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Speaker 1: that very interesting that the forensics on that cell phone

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Speaker 1: show headphones plugged in at five pointy five and unplugged

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Speaker 1: at ten thirty two pm that night. So the next day,

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Speaker 1: on February fifteenth, twenty seventeen, investigators release a grainy image

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Speaker 1: from Libby's phone showing a man walking on the bridge

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Speaker 1: behind the girls. There's also audio of that same man

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Speaker 1: ordering the girls, saying guys down the hill, and that

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Speaker 1: is later made public. Now here's the thing. When they

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Speaker 1: introduced that image of the man walking on the bridge.

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Speaker 1: I bet they thought that immediately people would call and

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Speaker 1: be like, I know that person that.

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Speaker 2: You can't tell anything from that image.

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Speaker 1: I know, And I think that's interesting because I'm telling you,

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Speaker 1: if someone took a grainy image of you walking on

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Speaker 1: a trail, I don't care how grainy it is, I

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Speaker 1: would be able to tell if that was you or not.

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Speaker 2: You would yeah, I.

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Speaker 1: Feel like you have just a distinct shape.

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Speaker 2: My charming personality would just beam through the image.

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Speaker 1: No, I just to me, even though the image is

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Speaker 1: a little is grainy, you can you.

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Speaker 2: Can't tell anything from that image.

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Speaker 1: You cannot discern any facial feet, okay you're at all.

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Speaker 2: Maybe someone that knows this person really well.

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Speaker 3: Might be able to because you kind of have that

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Speaker 3: memory right where you can identify people. But I'm not

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Speaker 3: going to look at it and then look at a

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Speaker 3: real person and be able to say that's him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, But I don't know. I felt like the police

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Speaker 1: when they introduced that image. I bet they felt as

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Speaker 1: if someone was going to come forward and be like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that would be the point of releasing the image, right,

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Speaker 1: But the fact that.

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Speaker 2: No one came about is that what you're gonna say.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because it just when you look at it, you

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Speaker 1: cannot make out any facial features at all. He also

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Speaker 1: has on like a blue car heart jacket and jeans,

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Speaker 1: and everyone in the Midwest, where's car hearts and jeans.

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Speaker 1: It's like if someone released a photo of someone with

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Speaker 1: bared shorts and rainbow sandals here in county?

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Speaker 2: Have you seen this man?

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Speaker 1: It's like, that's what everyone looks like here, all right.

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Speaker 1: Some of the initial suspects, first of all, was a

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Speaker 1: man named Ron Logan. He actually owned the property where

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Speaker 1: Libby and Abbey's bodies were found. The FBI later obtained

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Speaker 1: a search warrant for his property, this is in March

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Speaker 1: of twenty seventeen, citing inconsistencies in his own and he

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Speaker 1: had a prior criminal history, including d UI convictions, but

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Speaker 1: they did not connect him to the murders. Also, in

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Speaker 1: one of these documentaries I watched, I don't remember which one,

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Speaker 1: but there's an interview with an ex girlfriend of his,

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Speaker 1: and she basically says that he was violent, that he

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Speaker 1: raped her multiple times, that he was a violent man,

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Speaker 1: and that he had an interest in young girls and

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Speaker 1: he liked branches.

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Speaker 3: What's the ex girlfriend of course she's gonna mean it's

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Speaker 3: a little biased, but.

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Speaker 1: Of course is biased.

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Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean he's a murderer, It doesn't.

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Speaker 1: But it means that he has a propensity for violence.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, Yeah, it doesn't look good, that's for sure. Definitely

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Speaker 3: a person of interest, right, So to.

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Speaker 1: Me, Ron Logan would have been more of a viable

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Speaker 1: suspect than Richard Allen. But Ron Logan they ended up,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, have.

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Speaker 3: Them on his own property though, Well, it's a huge

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Speaker 3: piece of property.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. I wouldn't want to oil on my property.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Again, I tend to eliminate crime scenes from my property.

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Speaker 1: You don't, Yeah, it's a policy I have.

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Speaker 2: So.

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Speaker 1: Then, in February twenty fifth of twenty seventeen, authorities executed

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Speaker 1: a search warrant for a fake social media profile called

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Speaker 1: Anthony's Shot that was used to solicit underage girls online

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Speaker 1: around the time of the murders. Investigators eventually identified this

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Speaker 1: guy's name was Keegan Anthony Klein, who admitted to police

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Speaker 1: that he used fake social media accounts to contact underage girls.

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Speaker 1: He said he would often find them on Instagram before

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Speaker 1: moving conversations over to Snapchat. Authorities later confirmed that one

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Speaker 1: of his online profiles had interacted with Libby Jerman right

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Speaker 1: before her death. Despite that connection, police did not find

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Speaker 1: evidence that he was a suspected murderer. I saw interviews

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Speaker 1: with him too. I don't think he's a murderer. I

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Speaker 1: think he's just he's a sick a pedophile. He's just

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Speaker 1: a pedophile and he's.

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Speaker 2: In Wow, he's criminal. He's not related to this, right,

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Speaker 2: He's a criminal.

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Speaker 1: He's a pedophile. He had done images of underage girls.

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Speaker 1: He was contacting underage girls. But he seemed more like

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Speaker 1: an introvert hermit, not the type that was out, you know,

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Speaker 1: committing crimes, so they moved on from him.

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Speaker 2: He is a keyboard criminal. Right.

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Speaker 1: In April twenty seventeen, Ron Logan, the owner of the

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Speaker 1: property where Libby and Abby were found, was sentenced to

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Speaker 1: four years in prison for a probation violation, which was

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Speaker 1: not in connection to the Delphi murders. He pleaded guilty

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Speaker 1: to a felony charge of being an habitual traffic violator

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Speaker 1: after admitting to driving with a suspended license and consuming alcohol.

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Speaker 1: Both were violations of his probation so then Ron Logan

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Speaker 1: ends up dying from COVID. So this is July seventeenth

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Speaker 1: to twenty seventeen. Police released their first sketch of the

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Speaker 1: suspected killer. They said the suspect had reddish brown hair,

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Speaker 1: stands between five foot six and five foot ten, and

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Speaker 1: weighs between one point eighty and two twenty pounds. That's

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Speaker 1: a huge yeah, and appears to be around forty to

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Speaker 1: fifty years of age if you look. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you've ever seen the sketch. This is the first

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Speaker 1: sketch that they.

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Speaker 3: That they offered, and it looks like, well, let's describe.

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Speaker 3: It looks like a stocky guy. It's only a headshot.

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Speaker 3: It looks like he could be stocky.

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Speaker 1: He looks just like if you were gonna say, draw

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Speaker 1: someone from the Midwest.

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Speaker 2: I feel like he could be anybody.

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Speaker 1: He could be anybody.

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Speaker 2: He's like anyone America.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he just seems Middle America, Midwest Indiana to me.

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Speaker 1: And that is a big range between five foot six

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Speaker 1: and five foot ten, And I don't know. So that

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Speaker 1: was the first sketch.

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Speaker 2: Then, wait, what was that first sketch based on? Was

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Speaker 2: that based on the crappy video.

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Speaker 1: You know that is based upon an eyewitness account that

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Speaker 1: allegedly saw this man walking on the bridge. And then

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Speaker 1: in April twenty second of twenty nineteen, two years later,

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Speaker 1: the police offer a new composite sketch of the suspect,

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Speaker 1: saying it's more act accurately represents the person wanted for

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Speaker 1: the murders, and that the man in this sketch is

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Speaker 1: clean shaven and appears to be around twenty to thirty

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Speaker 1: years of age. And this is completely different, completely looks

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Speaker 1: like Matthew Perry. It's completely different, completely different. In addition,

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Speaker 1: they was not wearing a hat, No, it was he

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Speaker 1: not wearing a hat. Well, I don't know. So in addition,

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Speaker 1: they released video and extended audio from Libby's phone recording.

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Speaker 3: Was it based on the same witnesses, They're like, oh wait,

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Speaker 3: I remember he.

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Speaker 2: Did shave and he didn't wear a hat.

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Speaker 1: It's I mean, it's different. There were some girls at

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Speaker 1: the end of the there were some girls on the

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Speaker 1: bridge that were eyewitnesses that gave an account of a man.

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Speaker 1: I think that was the first one. There was another

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Speaker 1: woman that was also present that gave an eyewitness account

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Speaker 1: of this younger man.

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Speaker 3: So well, granted there's people on the bridge, although you

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Speaker 3: were saying a person like that looked like this that

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Speaker 3: was on the bridge.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. The problem is is that it looks to me

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Speaker 1: like a lot of police incompetency. If you go back

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Speaker 1: to the crime scene, there's no DNA found at the

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Speaker 1: crime scene. The sticks that were placed on the bodies,

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Speaker 1: they didn't test any of those branches for DNA.

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Speaker 2: They didn't know, they didn't. Oh, did they do any

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Speaker 2: DNA testing on anything?

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Speaker 1: Well, on the girls, but there was no DNA found

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Speaker 1: on the girls and there was no sexual assault found,

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Speaker 1: so there was no seamen that they could test.

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Speaker 3: So generally speaking, they were just murdered and then configured

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Speaker 3: in that way with their clothing and.

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Speaker 1: Twigs, right, and then there was no DNA left behind

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Speaker 1: or why could there be no DNA left behind?

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Speaker 2: That's a lot of activity.

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Speaker 1: It is a lot of activity, and that's my question.

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Speaker 1: I also read somewhere or maybe I saw it in

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Speaker 1: one of the documentaries that there when they initially found

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Speaker 1: the girl's bodies, because there was a lot of people

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Speaker 1: looking for them, that there were a lot of people

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Speaker 1: trampling through this crime scene and walking through it. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if people picked up the branches and threw

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Speaker 1: them to the side because they.

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Speaker 3: Get in similar to was it the Careen Reid one

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Speaker 3: where you think in small town was a Karen Reader

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Speaker 3: whatever one we did where it was small town. We

400
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,760
Speaker 3: figured it's like low budget, they're not really taking it

401
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:11,080
Speaker 3: very seriously and securing the premises, preserving evidence, looking into

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Speaker 3: it all. This is sloppy so far, Yes, this is

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Speaker 3: very sad.

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00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:17,920
Speaker 1: So in January twenty twenty two, Ron Logan, who was

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00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:19,919
Speaker 1: still a suspect, in the public size because you have

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00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 1: to realize this case became so huge. It became very

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Speaker 1: popular on social media and there were a lot of

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Speaker 1: online sluss This is why this case got so much

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00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,440
Speaker 1: publicity is because people became very invested.

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Speaker 2: Why were they very invested in it?

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Speaker 1: Well, one, they're invested because you're talking about two young

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Speaker 1: girls that were murdered. You're talking about two young girls

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Speaker 1: that were murdered, and they didn't find anyone quickly.

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Speaker 3: I feel like in a situation thinking it was also

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00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,600
Speaker 3: like this history of this place, probably there's no murders

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Speaker 3: like this, so it's out of nowhere, it's unfounded. And

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Speaker 3: then it's kind of gruesome. It's they're slit their throats

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Speaker 3: and then like never to be seen again kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: Like the suspect, right, and it's taking a long time

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Speaker 1: to solve. So all these online sluics become very investigated

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00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:06,359
Speaker 1: it also are very They become very investigated, not investigating, invested, invested,

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00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:09,480
Speaker 1: not investigated, very invested in it. Also, you have to

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00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,200
Speaker 1: realize when they when they released the image of bridge Guy,

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00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:18,000
Speaker 1: that just sent the Internet into a flurry because everybody

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Speaker 1: was analyzing.

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Speaker 2: The actual image of the actual image.

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00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:25,320
Speaker 1: The actual image of bridge Guy sent the Internet into

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Speaker 1: a just a flurry. Everybody was sharing it, talking about it,

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00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:34,879
Speaker 1: you know, the audio, people were analyzing it. It's just it.

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Speaker 1: So so many people around the globe have become invested

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00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:45,160
Speaker 1: in this case. Then let's get to Richard Allen, who

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Speaker 1: has actually been convicted of killing the girls.

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Speaker 2: But let's spoiler.

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00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,159
Speaker 1: Let's back up. Let's spoiler alert. Let's back up and

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00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 1: figure out how he came into the picture. First of all,

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00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:59,240
Speaker 1: Richard Allen's name never came up for years in this investigation.

437
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,919
Speaker 1: No one gave a tip. No one said he did it,

438
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 1: no one said he's suspicious, no one said look into him.

439
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 1: His name is never on anyone's radar. His name comes

440
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:12,439
Speaker 1: up later, like five years later, because he was at

441
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,400
Speaker 1: the trail that day when the girls were abducted.

442
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 3: So from twenty seventeen to I think twenty twenty two,

443
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,640
Speaker 3: so it is five years to twenty twenty five years,

444
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 3: no leads, no, nothing.

445
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:24,680
Speaker 1: Nothing that has to do with Richard Allen.

446
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 2: Well, nothing has to do with any suspect, right.

447
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 1: Well other than this they're releasing.

448
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I mean yeah, no other name has popped up, right,

449
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 3: just Richard, and not till five years later, right.

450
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,879
Speaker 1: So what happened was five years later there was a

451
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 1: volunteer I guess at the police department going through the

452
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: Delphi murder case and she comes across Richard Allen who

453
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 1: called and gave and gave a tip that he was

454
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: there that day because he went home after being on

455
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 1: the trail. His wife was talking about these two girls

456
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,439
Speaker 1: that were missing. He said, oh, I was there today,

457
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 1: and she said said, oh, well you should call the

458
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 1: police and offer to help. So he did. He called

459
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 1: the police and said, hey, I was there that day

460
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 1: if you want to ask me any questions, and apparently

461
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 1: he met with they called it a conservation officer. I

462
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 1: don't know exactly what that con the conservation officer. He

463
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 1: goes and he meets with Richard Allen and they have

464
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 1: a brief conversation. He says he was there that day

465
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 1: and he's really just offering his help. They write down

466
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: this information. It gets filed away, It gets filed away

467
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 1: in the wrong place.

468
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 2: Okay, wait a minute, I just looked up what conservation

469
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 2: officer is?

470
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:40,439
Speaker 1: What is it?

471
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 2: So? What what is it that this conservation he went

472
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 2: out to meet with Richard.

473
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,959
Speaker 1: Richard Allen called the police and gave a tip about himself.

474
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 1: He said, I was there that day on the trail

475
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 1: if you want to ask me any questions.

476
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 2: So let me read.

477
00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 3: What a conservation officer is is a lawn enforcement officer

478
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 3: who focuses on protecting natural resources, wildlife and the environment.

479
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 3: Why would you send someone out like that to investigate

480
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 3: a murder?

481
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 2: So, see, it was important. I looked it up, I know.

482
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 1: But here's what I think. I think because they had

483
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 1: so many tips, get I get it that they probably

484
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 1: outsourced a lot of those tips to other.

485
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 2: Areas and what other sloppy behavior and investigation was done.

486
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 1: So anyway, back to his tip.

487
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 2: Like, we spent the parking meter lady to investigate the

488
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 2: photographs of the crime and collect samples.

489
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: Right, that's why there's no DNA. Yes, okay, So we're

490
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: at the conservation officer. Okay, again, he leaves a tip.

491
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 1: The tip gets filed away, and it gets filed away

492
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 1: in the wrong place.

493
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 2: Then, as is typical with conservation officers.

494
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 1: I don't know who filed it. Anyway, it's filed in

495
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: the wrong area.

496
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 2: The probably didn't want to waste the paper writing it down.

497
00:24:58,680 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 2: It's probably what it was.

498
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 1: Five years later, there is a volunteer at the police

499
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 1: department who is going through the Delphi case and is

500
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: going through the files. She finds this tip. It's filed

501
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 1: in the wrong place. Richard Allen called gave a tip

502
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: about himself, puts himself at the scene of the crime.

503
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,120
Speaker 1: She takes it to whoever the investigator or whatever and says, hey,

504
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,120
Speaker 1: this guy said this was all looked into.

505
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 2: It was just a number at that time.

506
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, So they call him and they bring him in.

507
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: So this is October thirteenth of twenty twenty two. This

508
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 1: is his first interview.

509
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 2: Five and a half years later.

510
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 1: So out of nowhere, it is revealed to the public

511
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: that Richard Allen, a Delphi resident working for a local CVS,

512
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,959
Speaker 1: is taken into custody. His first interview is on October thirteenth.

513
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 1: Now I watched this first interview, interrogation, whatever you want

514
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: to call it. You can tell the man comes in

515
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 1: because he's just there to answer question.

516
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

517
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 3: Now, he's not really a suspect, he's just he's just

518
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 3: a witness volunteering his time to answer questions.

519
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: They're interviewing him, and the beginning is jovial, right, It's like,

520
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 1: how you doing. He's there, He's like, how can I

521
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: help you? Let me answer?

522
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 2: Sorry, we've been a little busy.

523
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: Right then that you can tell it starts to shift

524
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: because they start to ask him if he you know,

525
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 1: they show him the bridge guy photo and say like

526
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,199
Speaker 1: do you have a coat like this? Do you? And

527
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: then you can tell like something switches where he's like,

528
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: well wait, I'm not here to just yea answer. Now

529
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,360
Speaker 1: you're you're treating me like a suspect. And you can

530
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 1: tell his behavior, his demeanor changes, And I will tell

531
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: you this is just a gut feeling. I find him

532
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: completely believable. I think he's there to just answer questions

533
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 1: and to help. And then when he realizes that they

534
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 1: think he's a suspect and they're asking him about what

535
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 1: he's defensive. He wasn't defensive. He was just well, I mean,

536
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: he comes a little change.

537
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 2: How did it change? You mean? He was just more

538
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 2: protective of his yea, he was.

539
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 1: Like, wait a minute. You know, you guys think I'm

540
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: a suspect, Like I didn't do it. It has nothing

541
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,120
Speaker 1: to do with me, you know. And I believed him.

542
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: I found him to be able. I thought his body

543
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 1: language was believable. He didn't seem deceitful, he didn't seem

544
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: like he was trying.

545
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 2: To based on your years of experiences.

546
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 1: All my years of FBI training and forensic files, rhysic files,

547
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: that is my analysis anyway from what I said, is

548
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 1: this my opinion? That was my takeaway from that. Also

549
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: what drives me nuts. And let me just tell you this.

550
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 1: If you're listening, if you are being interviewed by police,

551
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 1: ask for an attorney. You do not have to know.

552
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 3: You say, am I being detained against my will? If

553
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 3: they say yes, then you say I want an attorney.

554
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 3: If they say no, then you say Okay, goodbye.

555
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: He kept saying, either arrest me or let me go home.

556
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: But that is not the key.

557
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 2: You folks, your You can't even say your your rights

558
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 2: for an ane attorney. You can't even say I think

559
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 2: I should talk to an attorney. No, you have to

560
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 2: be known as I want my attorney right.

561
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: And let me tell you something. Any time that you're

562
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 1: being questioned.

563
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 2: At least, are not your friends.

564
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 1: They are not your friend. I don't care how nice

565
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:05,439
Speaker 1: they are. I don't care if they bring you a

566
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 1: coke and a sandwich. They are not your friend. Asked

567
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: for an attorney, have an attorney president.

568
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 2: They're there to investigate and find a criminal.

569
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: I felt badly that this guy went through a lengthy

570
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: interrogation with police with no attorney present twice. Then they

571
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 1: bring him back on October twenty sixth, and this is

572
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 1: the second interrogation. This is after I believe they've issued

573
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: a search warrant and they've found a gun in his house,

574
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: and they matched the gun in his house to the bullet.

575
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: But they match it with those just the striations on

576
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: the bullet, unspent the unspent bullet. I don't know how

577
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: I feel about that. I know that there's some friends,

578
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: some science involved in that. I would call it maybe

579
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: a pseudo.

580
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 2: Sign, probably not as strong as a fired bullet that

581
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 2: then went through the chamber and has lots of distinctive markings, right,

582
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 2: it had that you can then replicate with another firing

583
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 2: of a bullet to match it exactly.

584
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: This is an unspent bullet, had some markings on it

585
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: that allegedly matched a gun that they found in his house.

586
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: He had guns and knives. To me, it seems weak

587
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: at best. And the second interrogation on October twenty sixth,

588
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: again he doesn't have an attorney present, and they're showing

589
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: him the photos of the bullets and how it matches,

590
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: and he just looks completely defeated. He's like, I didn't

591
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 1: do this. I don't know what. Tell you, arrest me whatever.

592
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: At this point, he's fifty and he's a family man,

593
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: and he has a kid, and he has a wife,

594
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: and he's honest.

595
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 2: Family man isn't really a sign.

596
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: No, it doesn't, because the Long Beach killer was a family.

597
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 2: No, I'm just telling you he's single. He must be guilty.

598
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: No, I'm just telling you information about him.

599
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 2: All that's fair.

600
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: What I find interesting though, and compelling to me is

601
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: that he has no criminal history at all. None.

602
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 3: Well, I'll tell you what, because I did read a

603
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 3: little bit on this. He worked at CVS right for

604
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,239
Speaker 3: like a long time I think, and they blasted this

605
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 3: photo everywhere, and you told me it was everywhere. Everyone's

606
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 3: talking about it's small town, but it's national or whatever,

607
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 3: and no one was able to point to the guy

608
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 3: that works at probably the only CBS in that town.

609
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's only Insie, it's him, right, No one that

610
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 2: to me is telling.

611
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: Well, you know what else is telling. Richard Allen is

612
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: five foot four and when you read the eyewitness accounts,

613
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: I'm sorry.

614
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 2: But then there's a five to eight to what'd you

615
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 2: say earlier?

616
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: Five like five eight to five ten or something, but

617
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: or five six to five ten.

618
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 2: Five four is significantly very short.

619
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: How tall are you, Shane?

620
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 2: Not five four?

621
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: How tall are you?

622
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 2: Sha? Tower over five four? Shane? My license says I'm

623
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 2: five to seven. Okay, leave it at.

624
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: That, all right? Shane sends it as five to seven.

625
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: I would say that if I were describing you, or

626
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: someone was describing.

627
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 2: Five four stands out, they would say you were short, right,

628
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 2: not tall? Right. Okay.

629
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: Again, I feel like if someone was described.

630
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 2: Because there's tall, there's average, there's not tall, and then

631
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 2: there's short.

632
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: Okay, Richard Allen is short.

633
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 2: Five for short is like anyone would describe that.

634
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: As short exactly, And when these eyewitness accounts describing they

635
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: don't say extremely short. I'm sorry, but five four is

636
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: extremely noticeably short, right, that would be to me that

637
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: would be the first characteristic that you would notice that

638
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: you would say.

639
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 2: Yes.

640
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: Police also found a blue car Heart jacket in Richard's

641
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: home that seemed to match Bridge Guy's jacket and thought

642
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 1: his appearance voice matched what Libby had recorded that day. Again,

643
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: we talked about this. I bet you could go into

644
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: ninety percent of homes in Indiana and they would find.

645
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 3: That's what the defense should do, a cart find out

646
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 3: what the sales is at the car Heart store.

647
00:31:55,560 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: Because to me, that was just your basic Midwest February

648
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: timeframe out outfit. Anyway. Okay, So they arrest him, take

649
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: him into custody. This is also interesting to note when

650
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: they arrest Richard Allen and they take him into custody

651
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: before his trial, he is not put into a county

652
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 1: jail like you would normally, be you're innocent until proven guilty,

653
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: you would be put He was put into a prison,

654
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: and he was put in solitary confinement, and this is

655
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: before he was convicted. I believe the reasoning was, or

656
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: at least the reason they said was because they it

657
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,239
Speaker 1: was for his own safety. But I don't know if

658
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: I believe that so wild.

659
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 3: It could have been overcrowding. That would have made more sense,

660
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 3: although still not okay, But.

661
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think there's probably I don't know.

662
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: I just I got really deep into this and I

663
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: feel like maybe they.

664
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 2: Were they get to it. Yeah, it was definitely driving crazy.

665
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: So throughout twenty twenty three, while incarcerated, Richard Allen admits

666
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: to killing Libyan Abbey multiple times, but family members and

667
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 1: his defense team argue that these statements cannot be trusted

668
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: as his mental state was quickly deteriorating. All right, let's

669
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: talk about these confessions. First of all, he's in solitary

670
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: confinement in a maximum security prison. He's naked a lot,

671
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: he takes his clothes off, and he eats his own feces,

672
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: and he's also confessing I did not read that isad.

673
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: The man is in his own.

674
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 2: Yes, it doesn't matter whose it is.

675
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: Well, I was just clarifying.

676
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, well that shows he's not of normal mind exactly.

677
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: So these confessions, and I put confessions in quotations, confessions

678
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: air quotes are coming while I think, we're watching a

679
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: man deteriorate and break down. And if you see him

680
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: during this stage, he looks like a completely different man

681
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: than he did when he was first interviewed. He's lost

682
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 1: a ton of weight, he looks broken, he looks so

683
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 1: he Also, when we're talking about confessions, he also confessed

684
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: to killing his grandchildren, and he doesn't have grand grandchildren.

685
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: And he also confessed to killing other doesn't know left

686
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 1: from right exactly.

687
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 2: So the confessions, that's a good tip if you want

688
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 2: to try to like destroy your credibility to say I

689
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 2: killed my own grandchildren when you have none. Yeah, they'd

690
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 2: be like, you're on her. I clearly didn't know what

691
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 2: I was talking about.

692
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 1: Well, they also claim that he knew details of the

693
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 1: crime that released that weren't released. However, the psychologist that

694
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: was working with him was a huge true crime fan

695
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 1: and she was obsessed with the case, and so she

696
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 1: was always on chat rooms and read it and everywhere

697
00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: reading about this case. And so it's very plausible that

698
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: she was having conversations with him about information that was

699
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: out there. And I think one thing in particular was

700
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: there was a white van, and that he talks about

701
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 1: how he was spooked while he was murdering them because

702
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 1: there was a white van that he saw. I guess

703
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: that was also public information, and maybe it came from her,

704
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:21,879
Speaker 1: Maybe it was somewhere out there.

705
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 2: I don't know who cares. That's dumb.

706
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 3: It matters when it's like how they were killed, or

707
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 3: maybe maybe, for instance, there was something underneath the body

708
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,240
Speaker 3: and that wasn't released to the public on purpose, by design,

709
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 3: and then he could he could say that, but like

710
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 3: a white van, I don't know.

711
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 1: Well, the white van was used to establish a timeframe,

712
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: but I don't know.

713
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 2: This is not strong for me to say.

714
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: I just feel like with these confessions and a lot

715
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: of people say, why would someone confess false confessions? Happen?

716
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, a lot, And I'll tell you.

717
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 1: I looked up a statistic. In twenty twenty four, the

718
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 1: National Register of Exonerations found that one hundred and forty

719
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: one people were exonerated from wrongful convictions with thirteen percent

720
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 1: of those from false confessions. And also, I don't know

721
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 1: if you remember, but I also work a lot with

722
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 1: the Innocence Project. A couple of years ago, I did.

723
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: I met with one of the people that I've met

724
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,399
Speaker 1: through there named Terrelle Swift, who was incarcerated for twenty

725
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: years for a crime he did not commit because he

726
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: confessed to the crime. I know it happens, yeah, and

727
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: he was young, he was a teenager.

728
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 2: I mean, you're sitting in an interrogation room for like

729
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 2: sometimes like twelve hours.

730
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was interrogating ridiculous. He had no attorney present,

731
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 1: no parents present. They interrogated him for hours and hours.

732
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: He signed a false confession and then.

733
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 2: That and I'm sorry, but you have all these people

734
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 2: in uniform he did it, and then threatening you making

735
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 2: And then they say they can lie, which I think

736
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 2: is horrific. They can lie and say, oh, we found DNA.

737
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 2: Then you're thinking, oh, crap, did I was I there?

738
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 2: Did I do something? Maybe I should confess? Because they

739
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 2: always act like they're your buddy. They're always acting like,

740
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 2: c mot, I know you're a good person, you just

741
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 2: did a bad thing. They always said that, right, it's like, no,

742
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 2: bad people do bad things, right.

743
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: Well, my takeaway from Richard Allen in these confessions is

744
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: that this man, in my opinion, from what I've looked

745
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 1: through and read, is not the killer. He's put in

746
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: solitary confinement, he's taken away from his wife and his daughter.

747
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 1: He didn't do this, and he's had a mental breakdown.

748
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 2: And how long was he in confinement before he was

749
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,879
Speaker 2: found guilty because he wasn't released on bail, right, it's

750
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 2: two years.

751
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. So Richard's defense attorneys file a Frank's memo to

752
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 1: support their request for a Frank's hearing. So his defense

753
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: asks for a Frank's motion, which is basically they were

754
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: asking the judge to set aside the search warrant because

755
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 1: they said it's really the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine.

756
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 1: They were saying that when the investigators filled out the

757
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: search warrant that they omitted information that they should have

758
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: given to the judge to consider before.

759
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 2: Signing all secured the warrant.

760
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: So they're saying that this right, that was a good

761
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 1: way to say it, that this search warrant was falsely

762
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: secured by omitting evidence and not allowing the judge to

763
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: know that there were other theories of who could have

764
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: murdered these two girls, and therefore the search warrant was

765
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: invalid and therefore everything found because of the search warrant

766
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 1: should be thrown out. Right, So I pulled up.

767
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 3: That's the fruit of the poisonous right is then anything

768
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 3: derived of it? Generally there are exceptions to it, but

769
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 3: we'll forget that for now.

770
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 2: But anything derived of that warrant is now inadmissible in

771
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 2: court exactly.

772
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:46,399
Speaker 1: And what they would want to do is they would

773
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 1: want the bullet to be admissible because that's really the

774
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 1: only piece of evidence they have against this guy. So

775
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: if they can show the search warrant was invalid because

776
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: information was omitted, then the gun would not be allowed

777
00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: to be brought in his evidence. And then you can't

778
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: match it to the bull which is really the only

779
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 1: piece of evidence they have against this guy.

780
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 2: They have no day photo and a.

781
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: Grainy photo that maybe kind of looks my account. It's

782
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 1: terrible evidence, it's awful of it.

783
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 2: It doesn't even if he did do it, if you

784
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 2: had a crystal ball that said it was Richard. Yeah,

785
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 2: there's still not enough evidence.

786
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 1: There's not no not in my mind, if I sat

787
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: on that jury, I would have never convicted the man.

788
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 2: No.

789
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: So this Frank's motion had a memorandum attached to it.

790
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: That's one hundred and thirty six pages. I read the

791
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 1: whole thing and it was the most interesting thing I've

792
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 1: ever read. If you are a true crime fan, I

793
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 1: suggest you go google it. You can find it. It'll

794
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: pop right up. You can read it. It reads like

795
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 1: a novel. It doesn't read like a legal document. It

796
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:49,280
Speaker 1: reads like a true crime.

797
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 2: Can they search for it? What would they search for?

798
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 1: You just put Dolphine murders and put Frank's motion Frank.

799
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:54,760
Speaker 2: Like the name Frank.

800
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, like the name Frank, and it will pop right up.

801
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: It's one hundred and thirty six pages. It was drafted

802
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 1: by the fence. It's in response to the search the

803
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 1: search warrant. It talks about how there's information omitted as

804
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 1: far as eyewitness accounts and things like that. I won't

805
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,399
Speaker 1: go into that deeply. You can look into that because

806
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 1: I really want to talk about the Odin report, which

807
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: is the most interesting thing I've ever wait.

808
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 2: So, what was what was the judgment on the Frank Oh,

809
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 2: it's denied.

810
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 1: Just denied, denied, which is like right, So in this

811
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: Frank's memo, and there's other things that has to do

812
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: with eyewitness accounts and how the there was information omitted

813
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: from eyewitness accounts and things like that. I'm not going

814
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 1: to go into that. I really want to focus on

815
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: this Odin report. So allegedly or apparently or no, this

816
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: is actually true. While when the police found the crime scene,

817
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: there were some police officers that thought immediately that this

818
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: crime scene had evidence or looked as if it was

819
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: a ritualistic killing.

820
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 2: Well, it's definitely not.

821
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 3: Slot It's not like just violent killing and then run

822
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 3: away because the way it was placed, right, Yeah, you know,

823
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 3: this reminds me of a story when I worked at Target.

824
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:07,879
Speaker 2: I don't know if you want to hear it.

825
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 1: Not right now, let's go into the oldness.

826
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:10,800
Speaker 2: It was methodical, okay.

827
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: So in the discovery that the defense gets from the prosecution,

828
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,240
Speaker 1: there is an Odin report in there that is twelve

829
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: pages long that these three police officers investigated. Apparently, there

830
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 1: is a group of people in this area, in the

831
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: Delphi area, in this area called Odiness, and they worship

832
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: It's like there, it's like a pagan god. Called Odin

833
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: and they do ritualistic type of things that have to

834
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: do with nature. And also, I don't know, allegedly there

835
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 1: maybe is some sacrifices, because they do interview one of

836
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: the guys that's supposedly one of these oldness and he

837
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: claims that it has more to do with just worshiping nature. However,

838
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 1: he does post things on his Facebook that are like,

839
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: you know, like a naked man hanging from a tree

840
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: with his throat cut. So that seems normal, that seems suspicious.

841
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 1: So anyway, this twelve page Oden report was drafted by

842
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,839
Speaker 1: the police and was investigated by the police, and it

843
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 1: has to do with the sticks and branches being arranged

844
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,399
Speaker 1: in run like patterns. Now, the word of thing is ruin.

845
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 1: It's r U n E, and it has to do

846
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:29,399
Speaker 1: with the alphabet. It's like a Nordic And so now

847
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 1: we go back to the sticks placed on their bodies

848
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 1: were placed in a deliberate manner that mimic these runes,

849
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: and the f on the tree is a run. And

850
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 1: also the way that the branches were laid on the

851
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 1: girls resemble different runs.

852
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 2: Did you see these runes to compare yourself? I don't know.

853
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:50,799
Speaker 2: I did.

854
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 1: I looked them up. They did.

855
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, do we know if Richard worships trees? And that's a.

856
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 1: That's a good question. There is. There's no link to

857
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: Richard Allen being an Odinist or worshiping this being a

858
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 1: part of this pagan group.

859
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 3: Of probably no one in the town of Delphi that

860
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:14,760
Speaker 3: is there are, Yes, there are, and they can.

861
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 2: They can be a witness that he's not part of it.

862
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,359
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know if they would do that, because

863
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: I think they would like him to be part of it.

864
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:22,839
Speaker 2: Why would they like him to be a part of it?

865
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 1: Because maybe they were the murderers.

866
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, yeah, So.

867
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 1: Maybe Richard Allen is a scapegoat. Maybe because Richard Allen

868
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 1: is being guarded in prison by two security guards that

869
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 1: wear Odin patches on their on their uniforms that say

870
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:43,439
Speaker 1: in Odin we trust.

871
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 2: Really, yes, this isn't like a theory. This is real.

872
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 1: This is real.

873
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 2: That's crazy.

874
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 1: I never heard of this, I know, That's what I'm

875
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 1: telling you. This case kills me. It is so I

876
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 1: just went down a deep, dark rabbit hole, and I

877
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 1: am convinced that Richard Allen is a scapegoat and that

878
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: there is a deeper, darker underbelly going on that this

879
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 1: murders don't have anything to do with Richard Allen, that

880
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: he just called and left a tip. And now this

881
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: man is spending all his time in prison. And I

882
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 1: could be wrong. I will always admit that I could

883
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:15,479
Speaker 1: be wrong, but I don't think I'm wrong.

884
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:17,839
Speaker 2: You don't admit you're wrong.

885
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't really ever admit to being wrong.

886
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:21,919
Speaker 1: But I don't feel like I'm wrong. But I could

887
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: be wrong. But again.

888
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 2: That's documented that Odin we trust, and.

889
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,280
Speaker 1: They have patches on their uniforms that say in Odin

890
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 1: we trust, and any time.

891
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 2: I don't think they're aw to wear patches.

892
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,760
Speaker 1: Well, they were removed once the defense saw the defense

893
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 1: team saw them, then they were the next time they

894
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:44,879
Speaker 1: went to meet with their client, they had removed them

895
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 1: from their uniforms. But when the defense would go and

896
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 1: try and meet with Richard Allen, they were always there.

897
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: They were always present, and they were recording their conversations.

898
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 2: Have these Odin worshippers ever been known to commit these

899
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 2: violent crimes or anything history like that, Well, they.

900
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,919
Speaker 1: Claim no, because they interviewed They interviewed one of them

901
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: on one of the documentaries, and he actually found him

902
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 1: to be believable. I have to say that they interviewed

903
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: him and he said that they worship nature and that

904
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: the they arrange branches in those patterns. But it's you know,

905
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 1: to worship nature and trees and things like that. All

906
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 1: I know is, let's just let's just think about this

907
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,720
Speaker 1: for a second. This is also in this Frank's motion memorandum.

908
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 1: How does a five foot four man get two girls

909
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 1: off of a bridge across a creek? Then he has

910
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 1: to murder one of them? But what is the other

911
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 1: one has to be tied up or something while he's

912
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 1: murdering one of them. How do you how?

913
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 2: Okay?

914
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 3: This goes back to my original answer. I don't think

915
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 3: it's that hard. I think you can intimidate young girls,

916
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,359
Speaker 3: and sadly, I don't think it's that difficult. There will

917
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 3: there be are there exceptions that will there be some

918
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 3: girls that might run and scream or hey, yes, and

919
00:45:55,840 --> 00:46:00,360
Speaker 3: good for them, But it's understandable, very easily into it.

920
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 3: It would be very scary for a man to do

921
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:06,399
Speaker 3: that to you. And I wouldn't blame any girl one

922
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 3: bit for being so scared and just complying.

923
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 1: I get that, and I understand what you're saying about compliance.

924
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:15,280
Speaker 1: But the time frame in which these girls was killed

925
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 1: was very short. It's like an hour and seventeen minutes.

926
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter. I don't know, I don't I just

927
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 3: strongly disagree with that. I think a man could be

928
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 3: so intimidating, easily intimidate to doesn't matter, doesn't.

929
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,360
Speaker 1: Matter, I don't know. I just don't think he acted alone.

930
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 1: And I don't think it was him.

931
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 2: I don't think he acted at all. I don't think

932
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 2: he acted at all.

933
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: I think I think it was I feel like it

934
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: was more than one perpetrator.

935
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it could very well be. I was just saying.

936
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 3: I'm not saying therefore it's Richard. I'm just saying I

937
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,399
Speaker 3: don't think that's far fresh. I never really question how

938
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,720
Speaker 3: did they intimidate? How did they get them to comply?

939
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 2: Because it's it's scary someone points in a knife at you,

940
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 2: you're gonnak.

941
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 1: I get it again. I'm not saying that he can't

942
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: intimidate him. I'm talking about the time frame is a

943
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: very short. Also, he goes home and he sees his

944
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: wife later and tells her that he's at the bridge,

945
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 1: and never does his wife say his clothes or muddy

946
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 1: or wet, or he doesn't have any blood on him?

947
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 2: I mean where the branch clippers?

948
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, like, none of that makes any sense to me?

949
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 2: I agree, all right?

950
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 3: And to me back to me where it's like they

951
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 3: blast this photo everywhere and they don't no one knows.

952
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 3: It's like your local CBS technician, right, Does that makes

953
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 3: sense to me?

954
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: All right? This memo also identifies a very specific odinous

955
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:32,879
Speaker 1: affiliated individual named Brad Holder. Brad Holder had a son

956
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 1: who had a relationship with Abby, so right there you

957
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 1: have a connection. Holder also posted ruine cymbals online identical

958
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 1: to those at the scene, raising suspicions of involvement. Let

959
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: me tell you some of the things that he posted,

960
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,760
Speaker 1: because I just found all of this way too coincidental.

961
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 1: So again, his son dated Libby. He posted a painting

962
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 1: on Facebook that showed the same leg positioning that one

963
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: of the girls had. It had a mark on the tree,

964
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 1: and it had a throat cut. This was on April seventeenth,

965
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, which was only fifty days after the murder,

966
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:09,880
Speaker 1: before any any details of the murders was released. His

967
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 1: name was Bradholder. They named him and this memory. He

968
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: also posted a photo of a hand marked with a

969
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 1: RUN symbol, which was the exact room found on Abby's body.

970
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, but this is although it's weird behavior, it's like, well,

971
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 3: after the fact, he's just posting stuff about the crime.

972
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 1: Except I don't think they didn't release Yeah, but they

973
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 1: didn't release photos of the crime, and they didn't release

974
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,439
Speaker 1: that there was any information about these rooms.

975
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,399
Speaker 2: You miss You didn't say that. Oh that's different, Okay, No.

976
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 1: One knew that there was any that they were investigating

977
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 1: any kind of odinist connection at all. That was all

978
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:49,240
Speaker 1: very hush hush. He also posted a photo that showed

979
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 1: two girls lying on the ground in the forest with

980
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 1: tree limbs arranged on their bodies and their hands positioned

981
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: similarly similarly to the two girls that were murdered. There's

982
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:02,359
Speaker 1: also a photo of an f made from sticks on

983
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 1: the tree. He also posted a meme of some quote

984
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 1: that talked about how friends help you move bodies.

985
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 2: I don't know, good friends bury the body.

986
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 1: Yeah. To me, all of these things seem highly suspicious.

987
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 1: I know they were investigated. I know that the police

988
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 1: claim or that they had solid alibis.

989
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, but who were they investigated by, because you're telling

990
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 2: me those cops run around, correction officers run around with

991
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 2: and oden. We trust patches and they're the ones investigate.

992
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 3: And then what they send, like a conservation officer to

993
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 3: go investigate, you know, I mean.

994
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 2: Who knows what else they're sending exactly.

995
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:49,360
Speaker 1: It all just seems very coincidental to a crime. I

996
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: don't know, it just seems to me. Also, there was

997
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 1: a report supposedly this is why the police claimed they

998
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: dropped the investigation into this odinous, ritualistic type of killing.

999
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 1: They said it was because they submitted all this evidence

1000
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,760
Speaker 1: to a professor at Purdue who looked at the crime

1001
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 1: scene and then wrote some report that said that it

1002
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:12,280
Speaker 1: wasn't a ritualistic killing. But they can't remember the professor's

1003
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,439
Speaker 1: name and they can't find the report. But that's why

1004
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 1: they claim they dropped. They dropped the investigation into these oldness.

1005
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:20,800
Speaker 2: You know what else shows its sloppy police work.

1006
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,479
Speaker 3: They misfiled the name and phone number of a guy

1007
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 3: that calls and says I was there, right, and then

1008
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:29,280
Speaker 3: they misfile it or whatever.

1009
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,479
Speaker 2: That's sloppy. Everything's sloppy about this case?

1010
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 1: Well, is it? The question is is it sloppy on

1011
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 1: purpose or is it sloppy because they're because they don't

1012
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 1: know what they're doing and they're sloppy. That's the question.

1013
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 1: Is there more? Is there is this more of like

1014
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 1: a Karen t a conspiracy where this guy is the scapegoat.

1015
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 1: He works at CBS, he doesn't ask for an attorney,

1016
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,879
Speaker 1: he doesn't seem very sophisticated. To me, he's easily made

1017
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: into a scapegoat. He doesn't have a very strong mental

1018
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 1: mind to fight back because he's now he's in solitary

1019
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:01,400
Speaker 1: confinement and he's losing his mind. He's confess he's guarded

1020
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,399
Speaker 1: by Odinus. I mean, it seems to me that there

1021
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:07,919
Speaker 1: is way more going on behind the scenes than it's

1022
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 1: just this five foot four man that worked in CVS

1023
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 1: that just has no criminal record that one day decided

1024
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: that he was going to.

1025
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 3: Kill and then never again for the next five years,

1026
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:18,359
Speaker 3: so they never found any other crimes.

1027
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 1: It makes no sense to me, zero, all Right, So

1028
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: the jury convicts Richard Allen on all counts, including murder

1029
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 1: while committing or attempting kidnapping. The judge sentences Alan to

1030
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 1: the maximum penalty one hundred and thirty years in prison.

1031
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 1: The victims' families give an emotional impact statement at the sentencing.

1032
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 1: You know the thing that also, I just have a question,

1033
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 1: and I have a theory, but what is yours? The

1034
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 1: families seem very hell bent on Richard Allen being.

1035
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 2: The families of the victims.

1036
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. From my position sitting outside here

1037
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 1: doing all this research, hearing all these things, going deep,

1038
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,879
Speaker 1: taking a deep dive into this, I think I would

1039
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: be like, I don't know if we had the right guy.

1040
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 1: But then again, I'm not suffering grief.

1041
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:06,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you can understand that some people might be

1042
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 3: in a position where they need to channel that anger

1043
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 3: and that hurt somewhere and find someone.

1044
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 1: And if that's the guy and the police say that's

1045
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 1: the guy, and that's the guy sitting in court.

1046
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 3: In front of me, you can't fault someone for thinking

1047
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 3: it's him, right, I mean you got to fault the

1048
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 3: investigation and the justice system and.

1049
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 2: Law enforcement, all of them for doing it so poorly.

1050
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,359
Speaker 1: So less than three months after his sentencing, Richard Allen

1051
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,280
Speaker 1: appeals his conviction. His legal team is seeking to overturn

1052
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: the verdict by challenging both the timeline of events presented

1053
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 1: a child and the handling of the evidence. His appeal

1054
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 1: raises questions about whether prosecutors relied on inaccurate testimony, specifically

1055
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:47,919
Speaker 1: Alan's lawyer's point to phone data suggesting that a key

1056
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 1: state witness may have arrived home later than he testified,

1057
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 1: undermining that timeline used to argue Alan force the girls

1058
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:57,240
Speaker 1: across the creek. They also argue that other evidence pointing

1059
00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 1: toward possible alternate suspects was improper excluded at trial. That's

1060
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 1: because this whole third party culpability that it had to

1061
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:07,720
Speaker 1: do that it's a ritual sacrifice, and then these oldness

1062
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,840
Speaker 1: are responsible for it was excluded. They were not allowed

1063
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 1: to present any of that at court. In court none, Wow,

1064
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 1: so you know you're sitting I mean I if I

1065
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 1: was sitting on the jury, I wouldn't have convicted him.

1066
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 1: But if you are living in this town of Delphi, you're.

1067
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 3: I don't think there's been many crimes have gone over

1068
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 3: where you would a convict him. I really don't pick

1069
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 3: Emily for a jury.

1070
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 1: No, because I because I feel like I do I

1071
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 1: have very I have because I take reasonable doubt, very

1072
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 1: no doubt for you. Well, I don't know. Family members

1073
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 1: of the victims have expressed a disappointment over the appeal,

1074
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 1: with Abby's grandfather urging Richard Allen to accept the jury's decision.

1075
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:53,319
Speaker 1: Libby's grandmother said the repeated filings and disputes continue to

1076
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:56,280
Speaker 1: cause the family pain, though they remained hopeful that justice

1077
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 1: will hold. Look, the guy is entitled to an appeals

1078
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: process and he has to go. Actually, I really feel

1079
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 1: like his case is a good case for the Innocence Project,

1080
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:07,279
Speaker 1: just because I feel strongly that I don't know if

1081
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 1: they have the right guy. That's just where I'm at

1082
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 1: with that. But obviously he has to go through all

1083
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 1: of the appeals first before he would be eligible for

1084
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 1: anything that has to do with the Innocence Project. So wow.

1085
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 1: So anyway, that is where we were at in the

1086
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 1: del Fi murders.

1087
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:25,320
Speaker 2: He was sentenced, Yeah, he was sentenced un thirty years.

1088
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 3: Yes, and he's been in jail at least since twenty

1089
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 3: two right since they detained him. Right, Holy cow, that guy,

1090
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 3: based on the sentencing, is never getting out.

1091
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:39,760
Speaker 1: Maybe his defense is able to bring in other evidence

1092
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 1: in the appeal. I don't know. We'll see what happens.

1093
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 1: Obviously will follow the case because I'm obsessed with it,

1094
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: and now I have to move on.

1095
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,239
Speaker 2: To a is being appealed in all that, right, like

1096
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 2: it's still in the system.

1097
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, what are your guys' thoughts on it? I mean,

1098
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:58,279
Speaker 1: read the Frank's motion if you have, you know, a

1099
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 1: spare day to read one hundred thirty six page motion.

1100
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 2: He said, it's like a novel, So you're reading a case.

1101
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:06,400
Speaker 1: Interesting, it's not a lot illegally is. It really reads

1102
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 1: like a true crime novel. So if you're a true

1103
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 1: crime you know, if you're a chunky chunky, you'll enjoy

1104
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 1: reading it. And tell me your thoughts on it. Tell

1105
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 1: me your thoughts on this whole odists alternate theory that.

1106
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 2: People out there that can explain to.

1107
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:27,359
Speaker 1: Us if there's anyone that practices.

1108
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:29,840
Speaker 2: Nothing wrong with that, but maybe they can shed some

1109
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:30,760
Speaker 2: light on this crime.

1110
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:33,719
Speaker 1: Right, and then let me know what you think about

1111
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,320
Speaker 1: Richard Allen. Do you think he's guilty? Do you think

1112
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 1: it's not innocent?

1113
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 2: It's not guilty, not guilty?

1114
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:41,280
Speaker 1: Do you mean he's guilty or not guilty?

1115
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 3: Meaning by way of law he has not found guilty.

1116
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 3: It does not mean he is innocent exactly.

1117
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 1: And when I say that, that's what I mean. I'm

1118
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:51,839
Speaker 1: saying there's the possibility that he could be guilty, but

1119
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 1: from what I have read and been presented and what

1120
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 1: I think, I would say he's not guilty because there

1121
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 1: isn't enough evidence to convict him to this man has

1122
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 1: been the rest of his life in prison. Anyway. Thank

1123
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 1: you so much for listening to Legally Brunette again. Don't

1124
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:09,720
Speaker 1: forget to move over and subscribe to us. Thanks for listening, guys.

1125
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 2: Thank you