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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ethan Edelman, and this is Psychoactive, a production

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Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Protozoa Pictures. Psychoactive is the

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Speaker 1: show where we talk about all things drugs. But any

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Speaker 1: views expressed here do not represent those of I Heart Media,

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Speaker 1: Protozoa Pictures, or their executives and employees. Indeed, as an

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Speaker 1: inveterate contrarian, I can tell you they may not even

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Speaker 1: represent my own. And nothing contained in this show should

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Speaker 1: be used as medical advice or encouragement to use any

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Speaker 1: type of drug. Hello, Psychoactive listeners. Today's episode is a

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Speaker 1: really special treat for me because it's quite personal in

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Speaker 1: a way. I mean, first because it involves in New York,

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Speaker 1: which is where I was born and where I live,

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Speaker 1: And it also involves work that I've been involved in

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Speaker 1: for many decades, finally coming to a beautiful fruition just

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Speaker 1: a few months ago. I've been involved one way or

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Speaker 1: another in the effort to legalize marijuana, first for medical purposes,

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Speaker 1: then for all at outs for many decades, and it's

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Speaker 1: been a major priority of the Drug Policy Alliance or

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Speaker 1: d p A, which is the organization I founded. Also,

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Speaker 1: my guest today is Melissa Moore, who came to work

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Speaker 1: for me at Drug Policy Alliance a number of years

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Speaker 1: ago and who has been the director of d p

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Speaker 1: a's efforts specifically in New York City and New York

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Speaker 1: State in recent years. She's really the one who spearheaded

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Speaker 1: the effort in New York to legalize marijuana earlier this spring,

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Speaker 1: and I have to say it's a major breakthrough, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, New York is maybe the fifteen state or

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Speaker 1: so to legalize marijuana, but it now represents the gold

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Speaker 1: standard for how to do this right because they learned

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Speaker 1: the lessons from around the country and how to regulate

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Speaker 1: the industry more properly, how to keep big industry at bay,

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Speaker 1: how to incorporate social and racial equity provisions that actually

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Speaker 1: could be effective and effectively imp meant it. So we're

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Speaker 1: gonna hear from Melissa about how and why this victory

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Speaker 1: in New York UH proved so momentous, and we'll also

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Speaker 1: talk a bit about what another New York politician, Chuck Schumer,

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Speaker 1: who's the Senate majority leader in Washington, is doing UH

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Speaker 1: to try to legalize marijuana at the national level. So Melissa,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much, um, you know, for coming on

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Speaker 1: the show and for talking to us about this. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. I think back

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Speaker 1: about our work in New York and it really dates

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Speaker 1: back to the late nineties, and we worked on these

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Speaker 1: hosts of other issues, reforming the draconian Rockefeller drug laws,

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Speaker 1: which had very little to do with marijuana, and a

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Speaker 1: whole bunch of other issues, needle exchange, overdose treatment, what

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Speaker 1: have you, uh, and then medical marijuana and now marijuana legalization.

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Speaker 1: And so the first question I want to ask you is, so,

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Speaker 1: why did New York finally do it now? I mean,

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Speaker 1: Color one, Washington led the way back in New York

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Speaker 1: is like theft or sixteenth State. But why now, you know.

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Speaker 1: I think there are a lot of different factors that

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Speaker 1: have led to this culmination of finally being able to

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Speaker 1: pass through comprehensive marijuana legalization and reform in New York.

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Speaker 1: The excesses of the enforcement and criminalization under prohibition, the

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Speaker 1: way that there have been extreme racial disparities in the

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Speaker 1: way that enforcement has been carried out all across the state,

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Speaker 1: the absolute lack of, you know, anything beneficial that can

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Speaker 1: be pointed to out of that, but the huge detrimental

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Speaker 1: effects that that's had all across the state of New York.

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Speaker 1: And now there's been this growing tide of other states

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Speaker 1: that have legalized through ballot initiatives, especially our neighbors here,

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Speaker 1: you know, with Massachusetts having gone a couple of years

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Speaker 1: before us and then New Jersey. I think that gave

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Speaker 1: an additional push. I mean the fact that there has

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Speaker 1: been such a huge amount of momentum around legalization, public

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Speaker 1: opinion in New York supporting it by a two to

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Speaker 1: margin for so many years now, and actually in the

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Speaker 1: more recent polls, there was a poll showing that actually

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Speaker 1: a majority of Republican voters in New York also support legalization.

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Speaker 1: So we're at a point when there's just such a

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Speaker 1: preponderance of of support for it that it was more

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Speaker 1: a question of like what the how would be as

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Speaker 1: opposed to whether or not on the merits of legalization

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Speaker 1: New York could move um, So it was a matter

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Speaker 1: of crafting bill right. Well, you know, I'm thinking back, right,

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Speaker 1: there were two elements of marijuana reform that drop policy

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Speaker 1: Line spent a huge amount of time on. Right. The

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Speaker 1: first was the issue around legalizing marijuana for medical purposes,

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Speaker 1: where New York took quite a while um and then

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Speaker 1: had a work really turning a bad law into a

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Speaker 1: much better one. And the second was the issue around

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Speaker 1: these racially disproportioned at marijuana rests, which just when crazy

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Speaker 1: under former mayors Julianni and Bloomberg. So, talking first of

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Speaker 1: all about the marijuana rest one, tell our listeners a

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Speaker 1: bit more about that whole effort and how it played in,

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Speaker 1: you know, to the success of legalization. And recently so

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Speaker 1: it's been along the case that there has been just

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Speaker 1: rampant racial disparities in the way that marijuana prohibition has

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Speaker 1: been enforced across New York State, and this is true

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Speaker 1: of the rest of the country as well. But when

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Speaker 1: we look back to, you know, the foundations of these laws,

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Speaker 1: it was really looking at what are different mechanisms of

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Speaker 1: control and we saw that really distinctly in New York

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Speaker 1: where even after the nineteen seventies seven decriminalization law was passed, well, actually,

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Speaker 1: let me just interject for a second, right theory just

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Speaker 1: or listener to understand. Back in the seventies there was

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Speaker 1: this wave of marijuana liberalization and decriminalization, and eleven states

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Speaker 1: voted through the legislative process, no ballot and issues were

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Speaker 1: involved to decriminalize the possession of small amounts of marijuana,

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Speaker 1: either at home or in your pocket, and New York

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Speaker 1: was one of those. In New York, in fact, did

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Speaker 1: decriminalize marijuana back then in the mid seventies, as did California.

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Speaker 1: Marijuana arrest dropped dramatically at that time, but then they

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Speaker 1: began to reep up during the eighties and into the

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Speaker 1: nineties to the point where we had what was it,

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand people getting arrested each year from marijuana possession,

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Speaker 1: overwhelmingly young, black and brown main that's exactly right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So we went from a period right after the law

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Speaker 1: was passed where there were like two thousand, three thousand

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Speaker 1: arrests total across the entire state for low level cannabis possession,

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Speaker 1: and then you enter into the stopping frisk era and

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Speaker 1: broken windows policing, and that's skyrockets then, so that by

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Speaker 1: we're at a point where they're fifty thousand arrest just

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Speaker 1: in New York City alone for low level cannabis possession,

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Speaker 1: and the vast majority of those were the result of

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Speaker 1: unconstitutional stop and frisk interactions where because of a loophole

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventi seven decriminalization law. If cannabis was

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Speaker 1: in private possession or private view, it was a violation

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Speaker 1: if it was in public view. So if somebody was

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Speaker 1: following the instructions of an officer who said, hey, empty

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Speaker 1: your pockets or open up your book bag, suddenly that

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Speaker 1: would put the cannabis into public view and make it

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Speaker 1: a misdemeanor arrest. So so basically you're saying the cops

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Speaker 1: were engaging in a subterfuge, right, they knew that so

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Speaker 1: long as marijuana was in your pocket, they couldn't arrest you.

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Speaker 1: At best, they could give you a fine, and they

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Speaker 1: weren't going to see it anyway. But when they're doing

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Speaker 1: this aggressive stop and frisk all around the city, targeted

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Speaker 1: young black and brown man, when they're incentivized to arrest

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Speaker 1: lots of people, they basically say, hey, did you mind

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Speaker 1: if I put my hands in your pocket? And the

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Speaker 1: kids scared and he said okay, and outcomes to marijuana,

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Speaker 1: and in that process it goes from being a non

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Speaker 1: arrestible in fraction to now being in public view and

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Speaker 1: therefore you know something they can be arrested for. That's right,

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Speaker 1: that's a misdemeanor arrest and that's what we saw over

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Speaker 1: and over again with you know, the enforcement demographics not

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Speaker 1: at all being representative of the actual demographics of people

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Speaker 1: who use cannabis across New York, which we know from

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Speaker 1: Department of Health data and other government data to be

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Speaker 1: pretty equal generally speaking across you know, different age ranges

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Speaker 1: and ethnic and racial groups. But when we look at

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Speaker 1: the enforcement for cannabis and especially low level arrests, like

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Speaker 1: we were just talking about, where it's really about, you know,

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Speaker 1: a cop rolling up on somebody is saying, hey, emptier

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Speaker 1: pockets within these unconstitutional stops and searches, that's where we get,

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Speaker 1: you know, eighty six percent, eighty seven percent of the

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Speaker 1: arrest being primarily black and Latin X New Yorkers, and

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Speaker 1: primarily young people, you know, the vast majority of those

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Speaker 1: being people under twenty five years old, when folks are

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Speaker 1: at a really crucial point in their lives, when you know,

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Speaker 1: they're trying to figure out what their career trajectory is

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Speaker 1: going to be, determining if they're going to be able

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Speaker 1: to pursue higher education, and so many of those opportunities

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Speaker 1: were blocked off for people because of criminalization. So it's

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Speaker 1: certainly about the overall scope of arrests, which is harrowing.

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Speaker 1: You know, at eight hundred thousand instances of low level

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Speaker 1: cannabis possession being arrested over you know, just the last

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Speaker 1: twenty five years alone. But then when you look at

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Speaker 1: the ripple effects and the huge devastating lifelong consequences for

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Speaker 1: people beyond just that arrest moment into the entirety of

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Speaker 1: the rest of their lives, that's also what we have

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Speaker 1: to contend with in New York. So, I mean, Melissa,

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Speaker 1: what I recall from those days is that initially, lots

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Speaker 1: of people, including me, it just assumed it was you know, guys,

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Speaker 1: young guys out there smoking a joint in public and

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Speaker 1: getting caught for smoking weed in public. But it wasn't.

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Speaker 1: Most of it was to stop and frisk. And the

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Speaker 1: other thing that lots of people assumed was workdamn. I mean,

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Speaker 1: black kids must smoke more weed than white kids. But

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Speaker 1: in fact, all the evidence showed that if you were

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Speaker 1: to randomly stop a hundred black kids under brown kids

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Speaker 1: that are white kids in almost any city in America,

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Speaker 1: virtually the same percent of them would have marijuana in

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Speaker 1: their pocket. Um. But in every city and state in America,

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Speaker 1: the black kids were two to ten times more likely

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Speaker 1: to get busted than the white kids. Now, it took

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Speaker 1: a little while for this to mature as a racial

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Speaker 1: justice issue, but I think it did eventually take off, right,

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Speaker 1: that's right. And you know, the data that we have

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Speaker 1: from the Department of Health in New York City in particular,

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Speaker 1: shows that young white people in New York City actually

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Speaker 1: use cannabis at like significantly higher rate than black and

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Speaker 1: Latin X young people in the city. And yet what

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Speaker 1: we see is the enforcement is pretty much the exact

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Speaker 1: inverse of that, UM. And that really comes down to

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Speaker 1: exactly what you're talking about is just how do we

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Speaker 1: actually approach this issue entirely? And so we have to

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Speaker 1: delve in and look more deeply at you know, why

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Speaker 1: is it then that only certain populations of kids and

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Speaker 1: you know we're talking about kids, but you know across

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Speaker 1: adult populations too, Why is this enforcement so laser targeted

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Speaker 1: in these ways? Um, and really changing the conversation to

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Speaker 1: be focused around those pillars of racial and economic justice,

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Speaker 1: which we can get into more as well. I think

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Speaker 1: was you know, a real turning point in terms of

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Speaker 1: how the conversation around legalization was shaped in New York,

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Speaker 1: but then also for the rest of the country as

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Speaker 1: well well. I mean the truth is, you know, when

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Speaker 1: the Blasio became mayor of New York about seven years ago,

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Speaker 1: he was attuned to this issue, but not bold. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the really atrocious stuff happened I think beginning under Giuliani,

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Speaker 1: because it was a period where arrest for crack and

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Speaker 1: harrow when we're declining, and the cops were eager to

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Speaker 1: be out there and they were incentivized to make arrest.

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Speaker 1: For senior police management, it was a good management technique

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Speaker 1: because that they knew that if they had cops busting

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Speaker 1: kids for weed, they knew they weren't just sitting in

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Speaker 1: a car eating a donut or screwing off and on

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Speaker 1: the street level police guy, I mean, for them, it

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Speaker 1: was a lot easier to just bust some kid for

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Speaker 1: weed than it was to be dealing with a homeless

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Speaker 1: person or domestic disturbance, somebody's going to puke in their car,

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Speaker 1: I mean, all this sort of stuff. So everything sort

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Speaker 1: of came together Juliani. You know, in two thousand, before

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Speaker 1: nine eleven, I think there were sixty marijuana possession arrests.

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Speaker 1: And then Bloomberg comes in, you know, new police chief,

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Speaker 1: but does the same thing, and he stands by it

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Speaker 1: year after year after year. And when then do Blasio

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Speaker 1: comes in, he's under pressure from the progressive community to

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Speaker 1: pull back, but not as far as he should have. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: I mean even under the de Blasio years, the racial

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Speaker 1: disparities remained pretty much the same at those extreme levels

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Speaker 1: for black and Latin next New Yorkers. Right, although the

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Speaker 1: total numbers of arrests are coming down dramatically, total numbers

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Speaker 1: of arrests had dropped. So you're going from fifty sixty

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Speaker 1: thousand arrest of the year down to twenty thousand, down

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Speaker 1: to ten thousand. I mean last year it was down

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Speaker 1: to a few thousand or so. Last year it was

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Speaker 1: actually under a thousand for New York City, under a thousand.

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Speaker 1: So it had come down. The total number of rests

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Speaker 1: had come down, but was galling. Is that the racial

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Speaker 1: disparity just persists. But what it meant though was that

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Speaker 1: as you're moving towards legalization, it meant that there was

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Speaker 1: going to be a growing coalition who was going to

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Speaker 1: be supportive of legalizing but also very clear that there

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Speaker 1: had to be a racial justice component to this. Right,

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Speaker 1: that's right, and I think it really kind of helped

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Speaker 1: frame the conversation, and that the pivot away from legalization

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Speaker 1: to just like, oh, well, we don't have to go

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Speaker 1: that far. We can just decriminalize, like we shouldn't rush

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Speaker 1: to legalize, just didn't hold water in New York. You know,

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Speaker 1: we've tried that since nineteen seven, and we ended up

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Speaker 1: with eight hundred thousand arrests for low level cannabis possession. So,

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Speaker 1: I mean, just patently in New York, decriminalization for cannabis

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Speaker 1: as opposed to legalization was no longer acceptable. And I

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Speaker 1: think the other piece of that also was, as we

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Speaker 1: were talking about before, all the other impacts within people's lives,

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Speaker 1: they don't get relief from just decriminalization in the same

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Speaker 1: way that you can under legalization. We're actually removing these

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Speaker 1: things from the criminal penal code, and that's what's required

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Speaker 1: in order to deal with a lot of you know,

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Speaker 1: the housing, the employment, the child wealth, our consequences, the

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Speaker 1: immigration consequences. You know. I'm thinking also that when you

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Speaker 1: go back to the first successful marijuana legalization initiatives UM

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Speaker 1: in Colorado, and Washington back in two and in Oregon

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Speaker 1: and Alaska. Those were places where the percent of the

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Speaker 1: population that's black is very small, these western states, and

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Speaker 1: the racial justice issue was out and about there. But

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Speaker 1: we also knew that it was not going to be

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Speaker 1: a winning issue on a ballot an issue you have

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Speaker 1: to appeal to the center who were not going to

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Speaker 1: care about these issues. And so my sense was that

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Speaker 1: if we were going to prevailed, the racial justice issue

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Speaker 1: was gonna move forward, it was gonna have to be

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Speaker 1: not through the ballot initiative process, but once we got

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Speaker 1: to state legislative reform, where black and Latino caucus is

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Speaker 1: an activism can make a difference. The one big exception

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Speaker 1: to that, of course, was the other ballot initiative on

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Speaker 1: marijuana quasi legalization in d C. Because that's the city

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Speaker 1: that's fift black. It was also a particular challenge because

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Speaker 1: when we started out, the white population of DC was

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Speaker 1: two to one in favor, but the black population was

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Speaker 1: majority against. And I remember in that campaign we poured

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Speaker 1: a lot of resources and made sure the leadership of

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Speaker 1: that campaign was black, and in fact, by the time

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Speaker 1: we finally want it, you know, in November, it didn't

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Speaker 1: actually legalize over the counter sale, but almost everything else.

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Speaker 1: In fact, we had moved that population substantially. Now in

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Speaker 1: New York, there was a really activist community around this stuff.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, when people talk about what's so

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Speaker 1: special about New York's legisl aation, why don't we just

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Speaker 1: get into that right now? One of the things, not

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Speaker 1: the only thing. One of the things is that it

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Speaker 1: appears to really break substantial new ground when it comes

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Speaker 1: to issues of addressing you know, the racist origins of

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Speaker 1: the drug war, the racial disproportionality arrests. Just explain more

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Speaker 1: about what makes New York so special in that regard. Yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: New York is I think charting a pretty exciting new

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Speaker 1: terrain in terms of what can be encompassed within legalization.

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Speaker 1: And you know, that's been part of the bill for

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Speaker 1: quite a while now, and I think is one of

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Speaker 1: the reasons why, you know, along with the conversations around

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Speaker 1: just the extreme disparities that we've seen in enforcement, really

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Speaker 1: talking about this as a through line that we weren't

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Speaker 1: just going to, you know, turn the page and act

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Speaker 1: as though those you know, extreme targeted arrests had not

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Speaker 1: taken place, and that there wasn't ongoing generational impact from that,

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Speaker 1: And so part of the Marijuana Regulation and Taxation Act

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Speaker 1: which passed in New York was inclusive of actual restitution

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Speaker 1: to the community is that have been the most harmed,

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Speaker 1: a significant portion of the cannabis tax revenue being reinvested

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Speaker 1: back into those communities. So New York is not the

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Speaker 1: first state to talk about integrating racial justice in I mean,

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Speaker 1: we made an effort in California sixteen I know, the

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Speaker 1: Illinois law that pass as a racial justice piece. The

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Speaker 1: governor of New Jersey, Governor Murphy, is very strongly supportive

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Speaker 1: of that. In Massachusetts got a piece of this, But

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Speaker 1: what I generally hear from those states is that it

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Speaker 1: hasn't been all that effective. But there's things about New

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Speaker 1: York which suggests that you guys have actually found out

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Speaker 1: a formula for really making that work. Yeah. So in

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Speaker 1: New York, you know, even just within the legacy market,

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Speaker 1: you know, as things are right now unregulated, it's about

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Speaker 1: a three billion dollar industry. And so the initial projections

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Speaker 1: for you know, the early days of setting up the

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Speaker 1: program are around three d and fifty million dollars into

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Speaker 1: the state coffers each year. Escalating up to over five

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Speaker 1: billion dollars as we get in some of the out years,

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Speaker 1: So huge buckets of money that we're talking about here.

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Speaker 1: You know, given the scope of harm that was done

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Speaker 1: under the marijuana a rest crusade, We've always been really

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Speaker 1: clear that, you know, we can't just say oh, sorry,

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Speaker 1: are bad and like move forward into legalization as though

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Speaker 1: we didn't actually have to have some sort of mechanism

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Speaker 1: to at least make an attempt to repair that harm.

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Speaker 1: You're not gonna be able to, you know, go back

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Speaker 1: and change those years of somebody's life when they had

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Speaker 1: a criminal record for cannabis or when you know their

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Speaker 1: child had been taken away because of just allegations of use.

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Speaker 1: But you can have restitution. And so of the cannabis

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Speaker 1: tax revenue that goes into New York State will go

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Speaker 1: into the Community Grants Reinvestment fund that will be available

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Speaker 1: for entities that are doing work within communities that have

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Speaker 1: been harmed by the War on drugs, for populations that

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Speaker 1: have been directly impacted by criminalization. So give me an example,

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Speaker 1: like what kinds of programs will will benefit from this? Right?

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Speaker 1: So this could be like youth after school programs, it

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Speaker 1: could be re entry services for people who are exiting incarceration.

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Speaker 1: It could be job training, um. But it really you know,

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Speaker 1: even much more broad than that. It can be childcare,

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Speaker 1: it could be nutritional services. And is there a way

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Speaker 1: to make sure this is going to be supplemental over

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Speaker 1: and above the existing funding for this, right exactly. So

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Speaker 1: there's maintenance of effort language, which is the technical um

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Speaker 1: bit that basically says this can't supplant other budgeted amounts.

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Speaker 1: And that's also true for the component of the tax

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Speaker 1: revenue that will go for public schools in New York. Um,

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Speaker 1: so it'll be a boon for New York State schools

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Speaker 1: as well, and then also to drug treatment and education

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Speaker 1: programs with a real focus on harm reduction. But then

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Speaker 1: there's a social equity side and the business piece of it, right,

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Speaker 1: And I want to be you know, really clear again

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Speaker 1: on that distinction, because not everybody who's been harmed, not

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Speaker 1: every single person is going to want a cannabis business,

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Speaker 1: but that doesn't necessarily cover all of the rest of it.

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Speaker 1: And when there were so many people impacted in New York,

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Speaker 1: we had to be really clear about the community reinvestment piece.

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Speaker 1: But when we turn to the business side of things.

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Speaker 1: You know. One of the things that's been so difficult

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Speaker 1: for you know, the sort of fledgling programs in other

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Speaker 1: states has been the fact that there's just such a

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Speaker 1: lack of access to capital because of federal prohibition. It's

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Speaker 1: really difficult for people to be able to get seed money,

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Speaker 1: you know, even if they've gotten a social equity priority license.

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Speaker 1: In same Massachusetts, just the fact that there isn't really

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Speaker 1: the same mechanism to be able to access a small

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Speaker 1: business loan or other sort of lending options that are

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Speaker 1: available if somebody is starting up like an ice cream

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Speaker 1: shop for example. Um, that's been a real problem. And

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Speaker 1: so in New York, within the Marijuana Regulation and Taxation Act,

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Speaker 1: the sponsors were really really clear about needing provisions like

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Speaker 1: the incubator program that would actually be able to provide

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Speaker 1: low and zero interest loans from the outset of the program,

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Speaker 1: so that the social equity applicants would be able to

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Speaker 1: have access to lending as well as technical assistants in

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Speaker 1: legal counsel, anticipating some of the same sort of roadblocks

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Speaker 1: and hurdles that we've seen in other states. So it

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Speaker 1: means it if a young black man who's been busted

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Speaker 1: for selling weed. Does it actually help him in applying

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Speaker 1: for something the fact that he was busted for selling weed. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So people who have been directly impacted for cannabis can

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Speaker 1: apply under social equity status um, and there's a prioritization

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Speaker 1: for people who themselves have been directly criminalized, and for

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Speaker 1: people who have a family member, loved one, or had

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Speaker 1: a parent, and then for people from communities. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of like different tiers. You realize what a what a

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Speaker 1: big switch that is. I mean, from the early years

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Speaker 1: of some of the legalization efforts, actually, one of the

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Speaker 1: provisions that had to be in there to reassure people

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Speaker 1: was that people who have been busted before could not apply,

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Speaker 1: and now, in fact New York is going to give

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Speaker 1: them a preference, which I think is just a wonderful development. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we really turned it on its head entirely. And that

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Speaker 1: was even a provision within the medical marijuana bill in

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Speaker 1: New York that we certainly were not pleased about whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: You know. I have to say also, like for people

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Speaker 1: who get their backs up when they hear the phrase restitution,

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Speaker 1: I mean, the bottom line is it's not just that

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Speaker 1: you had the racial disproportionality in the way that these

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Speaker 1: marijuana laws were enforced in New York, you know, for

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Speaker 1: so many years, her so many people. But I tend

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Speaker 1: to think about it also as restitution for the broader

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Speaker 1: drug war in New York. Because it's not as if

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Speaker 1: we're going to be legalizing heroin or cocaine and getting

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Speaker 1: tax revenue from that anytime soon, if ever. But the

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Speaker 1: number of people who were selling small amounts of heroin

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Speaker 1: or cocaine and landing up in prison for five and

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Speaker 1: ten and twenty years and also hundreds of thousands of people.

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Speaker 1: So to me, the notion of applying tax revenue from

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Speaker 1: a drug that was illegal and that's now legal, and

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Speaker 1: making sure a significant disproportionate amount of that tax revenue

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Speaker 1: goes individuals and communities that were most reamed out by

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Speaker 1: the drug war, not not just about marijuana. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think it's kind of a great moral good and

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Speaker 1: a great moral guidance optimistic this can actually work this

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Speaker 1: time in New York. Yeah, I mean, I think a

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Speaker 1: lot is going to come down to implementation. You know

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Speaker 1: what the accountability in the oversight is for these provisions

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Speaker 1: that are in there. There's a chief equity officer. And

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Speaker 1: you know also, you know, having license categories in New

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Speaker 1: York like operatives and on site consumption, both of which

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Speaker 1: you know, we haven't really seen in other states, and

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Speaker 1: you know, certainly provide fantastic entry points for people who

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Speaker 1: don't in and of themselves independently have huge amounts of capital.

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Speaker 1: Are you know, really exciting to think about. But I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, going back to your point around the restitution

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Speaker 1: in the community reinvestment piece, it wasn't just a matter

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Speaker 1: of the instance of an arrest that has had an

431
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 1: impact on people. There's also been generational economic harm from that,

432
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,199
Speaker 1: you know. The New York City Controller Scott Stringer, a

433
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: couple of years ago did an analysis looking at the

434
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,640
Speaker 1: neighborhoods that had the highest marijuana arrest rates and then

435
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 1: what the economic indicators were, and he found that seven

436
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,640
Speaker 1: out of the ten neighborhoods with the most dire marijuana

437
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,919
Speaker 1: arrest rates also had the absolute lowest economic indicators in

438
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 1: the city. And that's you know, it's a correlation, is

439
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,879
Speaker 1: not a causation, but it certainly compounds what we see.

440
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 1: And then we redid that analysis a couple of months ago.

441
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 1: UM for areas outside of New York City as well,

442
00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 1: and it was pretty much the same thing that areas

443
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,919
Speaker 1: with highest marijuana arrest rates had some of the highest

444
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 1: economic vulnerability, um, the highest need for people to be

445
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 1: able to access like nutritional supplements like snap and other

446
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 1: things that are really um, you know, a sign of

447
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,120
Speaker 1: the fact that people need additional supports, and also had

448
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,439
Speaker 1: some of the highest COVID positivity rates. And so as

449
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,159
Speaker 1: we're looking at that data, it just really showed that

450
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 1: the structural factors that were at play, the structural racism,

451
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 1: structural inequity that's woven into so many parts of our society,

452
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,360
Speaker 1: was showing up in cannabis enforcement, and that we could

453
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,640
Speaker 1: really take that as a microcosm both on the negative

454
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 1: side of just looking at this as a case study

455
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: of how enforcement was unparalleled in its racial disparities, but

456
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:46,439
Speaker 1: then also moving forward into fixing it. We'll be talking

457
00:23:46,480 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 1: more after we hear this ad. You know, New York

458
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: is not like California or Colorado, where replaces that already

459
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 1: had a huge both illicit marijuana industry and a huge

460
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 1: medical marijuana industry. It's not like we're huge growers the

461
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 1: way that California's or some western states are. And there

462
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 1: was an emerging medical marijuana market over the last few years,

463
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 1: but it's not going back twenty years. It's more going

464
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 1: back a few years now. I know that you have

465
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 1: put provisions in this, some of which are intended not

466
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 1: just on racial equity, but also to help small growers,

467
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 1: small farmers, small entrepreneurs. You managed to get a law

468
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: through here that's going to keep the big guys from

469
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,679
Speaker 1: getting too big. Can you just say a bit about

470
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 1: the provisions and also what it was like managing all

471
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,439
Speaker 1: the for profit players as they try to pursue their

472
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: own narrower interests. Yeah, you know, really important guardrails that

473
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 1: were included within the Marijuana Regulation and Taxation Act. This

474
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 1: is working really closely with the Assembly majority leader of

475
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: Crystal People's Stokes Senator Liz Krueger, who are the bill

476
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 1: sponsors who are really attuned to this. You know, had

477
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: seen the way in which medical marijuana program had been

478
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 1: implemented in New York State, the fact that you know,

479
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: it's basically an oligopoly that was set up, you know,

480
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 1: in the way that the governor swooped in at the

481
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 1: last minute and changed a lot of the provisions UM

482
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 1: very differently from what the campaign had been putting forward

483
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 1: under the Compassionate Care Act for New York. But nonetheless,

484
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: you know, we we had that very recent example UM

485
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 1: that people were looking at and you know, they they

486
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,919
Speaker 1: really determined we want to make sure that they were

487
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: going to be multiple entry points UM for people who

488
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: have been directly impacted, but also people from all across

489
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: the state to be able to really make a go

490
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: of it within this industry, you know, and that means

491
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 1: family farmers, that means you know, people who want to

492
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: have uh, you know, a small business where you know,

493
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 1: maybe they're you know, processing. UM. There's a micro business

494
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: license which will allow especially folks from the current you know,

495
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 1: legacy or underground economy to be able to plug into

496
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: the regulated space and make that transition or bridge over.

497
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: And that's incredibly important, you know, you talk about you know,

498
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: New York is not one of the largest cultivators in

499
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: the country, but we do have the largest current market

500
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: despite the fact that it's all underground, and there also

501
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 1: is a big I mean, there's a huge number of

502
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 1: New Yorkers involved in agriculture right exactly, So there's gotta

503
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 1: be a lot of farmers and others who are looking

504
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: at this thing and saying, maybe there's an opportunity in

505
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: it for me, And it's not necessarily the case. It

506
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:27,479
Speaker 1: only the big guys are gonna be able to come

507
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 1: in here and take this thing over from the get go.

508
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: That's exactly right. I mean, we don't want a situation

509
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: where we're gonna have just Walmart weed, you know, like

510
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 1: we want to have craft production. We want to have

511
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: this be something that is able to you know, be

512
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 1: a buttress for family farmers who have been facing you know,

513
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: just years and years of devastating Floria dropouts in terms

514
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 1: of the crop prices and getting a homegrow provision within

515
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 1: the building that's crucially important. You know. Sometimes people in

516
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,199
Speaker 1: the industry they get so greedy and they want to

517
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: they want to put in the law that people are

518
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 1: not allowed to grow three or five or ten of

519
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: their own plans, like even the alcohol, and just doesn't

520
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 1: want to put in there that you can't make your

521
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 1: own beer or a little booze at home. And for

522
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: many people they forget that marijuana. I mean, there's a

523
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: kind of intimacy of growing marijuana where people want to

524
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,439
Speaker 1: grow their own and it's a very personal thing. I

525
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: sometimes look at some of the marijuana growers and I

526
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: see their connection to the plant being almost analogous to

527
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: this kind of sensual sort of freedom dimension of gun

528
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: owners to their guns. You know that that that they're

529
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: just it's it's a visceral sort of thing, you know.

530
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 1: And I know in almost every state that Moosard's legalization,

531
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: there's been a debate about what's called vertical integration, basically

532
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 1: the extent to which any business can be vertically integrated

533
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: in terms of being involved in the production of the

534
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 1: product and the distribution of it and even the retail sale. Now,

535
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: I know, what you are very careful to do was

536
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: to really limit vertical integration and thereby limits the big

537
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 1: players except for the smallest guys, right, that's right. Yeah,

538
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,120
Speaker 1: So the micro business license and the cooperative licenses are

539
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: really the only ones that do allow for people to

540
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: tie multiple aspects of the continuum from cultivation to processing

541
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: to retail and distribution. Um. But aside from that, you know,

542
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: we we were very intentional and the sponsors were as

543
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: well about making sure that there would be as many

544
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: different entry points for people to participate in this industry

545
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 1: as possible. Um. And you know, the the existing medical

546
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 1: marijuana organizations within the state, there is a provision within

547
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 1: the bill that allows them to participate on the adult

548
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: use side if they pay a significant fee UM. And

549
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 1: that was really important that will go into the incubator

550
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: program making sure that those funds are available from the

551
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: very get go um to have those low and zero

552
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: interest loans, but with really strong guard rails around it

553
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: as well. We just back up for one second, why

554
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: do we still need medical marijuana when marijuana is legalized

555
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: for all? Had I always get a little cloudy about that, right, Um.

556
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: There definitely are you know, different access points for patients

557
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: that are really important to maintain as we move into

558
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: adult use, particularly around costs. UM. So as the as

559
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: the adult use program becomes set up, they're going to

560
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: be different tax levels for patients, and so patients will

561
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: have access a different tax rate. I mean, I I

562
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: would argue, and I would posit that there just shouldn't

563
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: be a tax if it's a medication. Um. But you

564
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: know that's something that we have to move further toward.

565
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: But it means if you have a prescription, you'll pay less,

566
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: That's right. If you have a recommendation from a provider UM.

567
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: And one of the things that the Marijuana Regulation and

568
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: Taxation Act also did UH was make some changes in

569
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: terms of the qualifying conditions and also expanding the fact

570
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: that providers, you know, if they deemed that this that

571
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: cannabis would be helpful for a patient as part of

572
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: a palliative care, that they can do a recommendation. UM.

573
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 1: It changed the number of hours that are required for

574
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: them to get certified to be able to recommend cannabis.

575
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: So in a lot of ways it made improvements allowed

576
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: for whole flower to be part of the medical program.

577
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: But will there be any difference in the quality? Like

578
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: I think in the Netherlands, where marijuana has been caused

579
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: for decades, they still have a medical marijuana outlet, And

580
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: what distinguishes it is that the quality of production there

581
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: is really medical quality in a very strict way. And

582
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: the other fact is that health insurance will cover it. Yeah,

583
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: we don't have the health insurance piece unfortunately because of

584
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: federal prohibition. But will the quality be the same in

585
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: the medical dispensaries as the others or will there be

586
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: a difference? There are additional testing parameters as far as

587
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 1: I know, UM, the information about tests will be available

588
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: to consumers across both the medical and the adult use program,

589
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: which is really easy access. But I think there there

590
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: are more stringent testing policies around the medical program still,

591
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: but really a lot of it is around UM access

592
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: and affordability. Okay, so let's now get into the issue

593
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: of our not so beloved Governor Andrew Cuomo. Now, I

594
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: don't know if you even know this, Melissall. I mean

595
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: I first met Andrew Cuomo back in like two thousand

596
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: and three. He was running for governor in the Democratic

597
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: primary against a popular black candidate, Karl McCall, and he

598
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: landed up alienating every buddy. And meanwhile, the next year

599
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: he had to sort of make amends, and he decided

600
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: the way to do it would be to jump in

601
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 1: and become a kind of supporter of radical reform of

602
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: the draconian Rockefeller drug laws. So he and I met.

603
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: He was an ally. When he became governor, it was

604
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: very mixed, you know, he didn't seem to care about

605
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: the issue that much. When the issue around the racist

606
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 1: marijuana rest came up, he positioned himself on the right

607
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: side of that issue. I think he saw it as

608
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: politically wise, but on the medical marijuana issue, he was

609
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: a nightmare. I mean, I just I'll tell this last thing.

610
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: I remember what he had decided he finally needed to

611
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: do something, and he called me at home and he said,

612
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: I have this idea. I want to reintroduce his weird

613
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: provision in the old nineteen seventy seven lore, some old

614
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: medical marijuana law, and I want to try to resuscitate it.

615
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 1: And he said, would you be willing to support it publicly?

616
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: And I said, well, I don't think it's ever gonna work,

617
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: But I mean, if you want me to say yes, fine,

618
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: this is a good start. But do you agree that

619
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: if we can get a medical marijuana build to your desk,

620
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: that you'll sign it. And he said, you'll never get

621
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: it to our desk. And I said, well, I think

622
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: we have a possibility to get through legislature. You said, well, yeah,

623
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: if you get it, I'll sign it. And then, of

624
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: course what happened was we had to bill virtually through

625
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 1: the legislature, and at that point he did everything in

626
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: his power to turn a really good bill into a

627
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: bad law. So I'm curious about your perspective on the

628
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 1: governor and this whole issue. Oh wow, there's a lot

629
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: to unpack their. Um, you know, it's interesting hearing the

630
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: trajectory from you know, your historical view and different interaction

631
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: points with him on this issue from when I joined

632
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: d p A, I mean pretty shortly thereafter, Um, you know,

633
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: a press conference about a totally different issue, Governor Cuomo

634
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: was asked about cannabis and about legalization, and at that

635
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: point he went back to like gateway theory type of

636
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: talking points. I mean, just like really absurd. That was like,

637
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: at that point clearly not the case, not you know,

638
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: supported by any of the science or any of the research,

639
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: and yet he was still ling these like old talking points.

640
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 1: Um when he was kind of caught unawares, you know,

641
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: like that was just his gut feeling. Like so, my

642
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: read of it has been that he, you know, over

643
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: the years is not really been a fan of cannabis whatsoever,

644
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 1: and um, you know, recognized from the criminal justice space

645
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: the need to talk about the disparities and the impacts

646
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,959
Speaker 1: within different communities, but wasn't really dedicated to coming up

647
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: with a comprehensive solution that would actually address that harm

648
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: and then also move us forward. Into a space where

649
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: we wouldn't continue to see that sort of devastating impact

650
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: taking place after medical marijuana passed. And you know a

651
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: lot of our allies from vocal New York who were

652
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: you know, lower income New Yorkers who have been directly impacted,

653
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: many of whom are navigating life with HIV and hepatitis C,

654
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: who were part of the backbone for the medical marijuana

655
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: program in New York, who still could not afford medication

656
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: for all of these years. You know who you were, Like,

657
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: I went to every single lobby day. I you know,

658
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: even given the fact that they have pretty severe physical ailments,

659
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: like really you know, did everything in their power to

660
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 1: get this bill passed and then to no avail you know,

661
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 1: in terms of their own medical needs. And so that

662
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: was really important for us as we were moving forward

663
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: into adult use, was making the improvements in the adjustments

664
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,320
Speaker 1: that were possible to the medical program, but then certainly

665
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: not replicating a lot of those things. So that's where

666
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 1: I really give a huge amount of credit to the

667
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: bill sponsors who really held firm in the negotiations with

668
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: the governor. I mean, I think also Pivolin New York

669
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: of course, was that until fairly recently, the Republicans to

670
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: some extent control the state Senate, so they were just

671
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: a firm obstacle there, and the fact that um Uh

672
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: Cuomo was politically quite powerful. But I think the thing

673
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: that happened now with Cuomo being so politically weakened was

674
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: he wasn't really in a position this year to stand

675
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: in the way, and he needed a win, and most

676
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 1: people aren't paying attention to the details they knew he

677
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: had publicly said he was in favor of legalizing a

678
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 1: few years ago, even though he was blocking a meaningful

679
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: type of league loization law coming through. So I think that,

680
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,399
Speaker 1: you know, really things came together with the Democrats having

681
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: such a super majority in the legislature, and then you

682
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 1: take a sustained allied effort in the work that you

683
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: and the allies did, it really made the difference this year.

684
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: I think that's exactly right. Yeah, there were so many

685
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: different factors, definitely flipping a lot of the Senate seats upstate,

686
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,760
Speaker 1: you know, getting new members in who were just reflective

687
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: of an entirely different viewpoint and you know, much more

688
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: supportive of legalization. Even folks like Senator Hinschi, who you

689
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 1: know herself is a bit more moderate um, but represents

690
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,399
Speaker 1: a community and a district that has a lot of

691
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 1: farming interests, and so she came out legalization very supportive

692
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 1: from the standpoint of like, look, this is going to

693
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 1: help family farmers in my district. What about the opposition,

694
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,760
Speaker 1: I mean, did the cops and prosecutors ever come along

695
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: or did they just stay adamantly opposed all the way?

696
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting there have been layers to it.

697
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: I think at a certain point they realized that it

698
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: was pretty inevitable that legalization was going to happen, and

699
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: this is going back even a couple of years ago

700
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: because of the campaign that we were running. And so

701
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: then they tried to shape certain aspects of it. They

702
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: tried to carve out ways to criminalize other drugs in

703
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: different ways within the vehicle and traffic law, just like

704
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: really wild provisions that had nothing to do with cannabis whatsoever.

705
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: But we're an attempt to kind of shoehorn in these

706
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 1: different policies that they've tried to move for years. And

707
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 1: you know, we we were able to block that too,

708
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: you know, working throughout the coalition and with our allies

709
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 1: and just really calling it out very clearly, and even

710
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: the governor's own legalization proposals that he has included the

711
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: last couple of state budgets had some of those things,

712
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,800
Speaker 1: you know, woven into them that we identified really clearly

713
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: and just went at like a hammer, just relentlessly calling out,

714
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 1: you know, the fact that the odor of marijuana under

715
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: the governor's proposal would have still been able to be

716
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: used as a justification for a stop in the search

717
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: when we know, you know, going back to what we

718
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 1: were talking about right at the beginning of the disproportionate

719
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: criminalization and arrest, since we saw the arrest come down

720
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 1: a lot in New York City, it really was the

721
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: odor of cannabis that was just used as a blanket

722
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 1: excuse because it didn't require evidence, it didn't show up

723
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: on a body camera, and so cops are able to

724
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: just allege left and right, like, oh, I, well, I

725
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: smelled cannabis. Therefore I had to search this person, and

726
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 1: I had to pull his firson over even when there

727
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:11,959
Speaker 1: was no possible way. And so we've seen some court

728
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 1: opinions in the last couple of years, you know, just

729
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 1: saying we're judges have determined this is not credible whatsoever.

730
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: I'm throwing out the entire case um. But the Marijuana

731
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 1: Regulation and Taxation Act, of what we were really pushing

732
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: for from the campaign perspective was a clear removal of

733
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: odor as a justification for a search and things like that.

734
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 1: Has any other state done that, by the way, I

735
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: would have to double check on the odor I don't

736
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 1: think it's been removed as completely in other states as

737
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 1: we have in New York. The curse of going through

738
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: the legislatures that you have to go through the legislature

739
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: and it isn't just a ballot question where you move

740
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 1: with public opinion, but you can actually be a lot

741
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: more comprehensive. So we were able to do that. There's

742
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: other provisions there, like, for example, the fact that because

743
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: the age for alcohol is twenty one, the age for

744
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,479
Speaker 1: marijuana being legal is twenty one. But yet yet huge

745
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,879
Speaker 1: numbers of consumers are under the age of twenty one,

746
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: and I think you put provision is in the law

747
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 1: to make sure that this ridiculous age limit does not

748
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: have draconian effects. Is that right? That's right? Yeah, So

749
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: the penalty for underage possession of cannabis is uh, you know,

750
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: a non criminal one. It's a ticket basically for a

751
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: young person, or they could complete community service. UM. So

752
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: we're really clear about not wanting to have any sort

753
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 1: of criminal penalties that could lead to a record. UM.

754
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: But then also you know that even the NYPD's own

755
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 1: operations memo following the bill coming out said basically, there's

756
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: because it's a civil penalty and not a criminal one,

757
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: there's no mechanism by which the n y p D

758
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 1: or other law enforcement across the state can enforce that

759
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 1: it's not within their purview. And so there you know,

760
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,919
Speaker 1: law enforcement is not able to make it a rest,

761
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: is not able to stop searching question or issue a

762
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: juvenile report. It's all of these things that can have

763
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 1: such a huge impact on on young people. And then

764
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: you put in consumption rooms so people will be able

765
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: to have places they can go, commercial establishments where they

766
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: can consume marijuana, that's right, They'll be safe and sanctioned

767
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: on site consumption places like lounges where people can go.

768
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you the fact that New York State

769
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: it has to be the first state, isn't it the

770
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: one where people can actually smoke a joint in public?

771
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: Anywhere they can still allowed to smoke a cigarette. Yeah,

772
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 1: if you're if you're allowed to smoke tobacco, right, I

773
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 1: mean there there are a lot of you know, regulations

774
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: around that, with you know, the Clear Air Act compliance that,

775
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 1: but also like it is pretty monumental. Let's take a

776
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:45,359
Speaker 1: break here and go to an ad wells. I gotta

777
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 1: tell you I don't smoke marijuana very much, and I

778
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: mostly do edibles, but I literally to celebrate the new law,

779
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: I walked out my door and down the sidewalk and

780
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:56,240
Speaker 1: I lit up just so that I could experience the freedom.

781
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: You know. I know, the d P A Drug Policy

782
00:39:58,480 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 1: Alliance has had to get a little bit of a

783
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 1: sometimes the growing number of prohibition is directed at people

784
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 1: who smoke cigarettes are vague. So I mean, now there's

785
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,280
Speaker 1: a risk that with marijuana being legal to smoke anyone

786
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 1: you can smoke a cigarette. Are we gonna get to

787
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: a point where cigarette is bands so much that people

788
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 1: won't be able to smoke mariwana anymore? I mean, I

789
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: think this is something that comes up, you know, especially

790
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,720
Speaker 1: from the angle of people who are living in public housing,

791
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 1: where because of the smoke Free Housing band that went

792
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,919
Speaker 1: through from the federal agency level at HOOD a couple

793
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: of years ago. You know, that was one of the

794
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 1: concerns that honestly informed the on site consumption license and

795
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 1: making sure that there would actually be spaces where people

796
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,800
Speaker 1: would be able to be safe and that were sanctioned

797
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 1: for use um. But also having that that public consumption

798
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: piece anywhere that tobacco consumption is allowed outside of parks

799
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: and outside of driving context, you know, that is still

800
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 1: not allowed for cannabis, just to be very very clear

801
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: for people. Um. But you know, a lot of that

802
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:56,800
Speaker 1: was informed by the fact that New York has the

803
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 1: largest population in public housing, and so we were totally

804
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: willing to move forward into a space of legalization that

805
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 1: kept people blocked out or established a kind of like

806
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,879
Speaker 1: two tier system that we were trying to address and

807
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: was you know, going to be sort of right for

808
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 1: ongoing racial disparity. So really trying to anticipate that, and

809
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: we're going to you know, keep an eagle eye on

810
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: that and make sure that as implementation rolls out and

811
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: you know, as we see further operations order shifts from

812
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 1: law enforcement, that that actually is in keeping with what's

813
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: in the bill. Well, I tell you, I mean, I

814
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: just think it's remarkable all the issues that you thought through.

815
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,399
Speaker 1: So I take it some of the calls that you're

816
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 1: receiving an email as you're getting these days are from

817
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,359
Speaker 1: people out of state who want to know what they

818
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,280
Speaker 1: can learn from New York and maybe an even outside

819
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 1: the country. There has been a fair amount of like, hey,

820
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 1: we're in Wisconsin, like we need help here to um,

821
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 1: you know, in different states. You know, it's I mean,

822
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: it is interesting like other states to a degree can

823
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: move through ballot initiative. I think, you know, seeing Virginia

824
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 1: legalize and then also the work of advocates was absolutely

825
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 1: tremendous to move up the enactment date of when decriminal

826
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: zation would take place. And that is really due to

827
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 1: the work of black organizers in Virginia, you know, many

828
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 1: of whom we were working in coordination with as well

829
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 1: to say, look, if that's great that we legalized, were

830
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 1: the first state in the South to do so, but

831
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 1: just waiting until four when we know that ongoing racial

832
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: disparities and enforcement are happening day to day is unacceptable.

833
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 1: We need to move this up. And so they were

834
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,879
Speaker 1: just successful in that effort. Also, UM, and I think

835
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: you know the South is really going to be like

836
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 1: sort of the next uh interesting territory for you know

837
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 1: what this conversation will bring. Yeah, it'll be interesting to

838
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: see because you know, whether or not racial equity provisions

839
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: can you know, prove winnable in ballot initiatives in the South.

840
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: Most of the states don't have the initiative process. I mean,

841
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: Mississippi just legalized medical marri wanted that way. Florida does

842
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: on the votes, so be interesting. What are the interesting

843
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 1: things this year is that our Senator Chuck Schumer, who

844
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: is now the majority leader, is all over marijuana legalization.

845
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: I mean he's insisted that he's part of the team

846
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,279
Speaker 1: with I think why Senator Widen from Oregon and Corey

847
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 1: Booker from New Jersey in leading this. He says he

848
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: wants to move forward even if Biden's not there, even

849
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,399
Speaker 1: Republicans um But what are the lessons you think from

850
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 1: New York for the phase is they proceed? Yeah, I

851
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:14,839
Speaker 1: think a lot of it. You know, in many ways,

852
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: New York is the the example that they should be

853
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 1: looking to, and the Senator Schumer has indicated, you know,

854
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 1: let's take this win in New York in the way

855
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: that we really did involve comprehensive redress for prior criminalization

856
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: as well as UM, you know, specific things like social

857
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 1: equity and structuring the business side of things in such

858
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 1: a way that people can actually truly have a go

859
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 1: of it at the federal level as well. And I

860
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: think you know, that's been part of the conversation point

861
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: that he's had with Senator Widen. You know, the fact

862
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 1: that we saw the More Act actually passed through the

863
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: House at the end of last year was absolutely remarkable

864
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: and the MORE actions so people understand that is a

865
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 1: a marijuana legalization bill that does integrate elements of social

866
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 1: and economic equity into it. That's right. It has really

867
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,839
Speaker 1: strong restitution components as all, as we're moving marijuana from

868
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 1: the federal schedule of Controlled substances, allowing me for a

869
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,399
Speaker 1: lot more research. But it does have expungement provisions as

870
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 1: well as reinvestment provisions that are really important. And the

871
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: fact that we saw that move as the comprehensive bill

872
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: to address UM moving away from cannabis criminalization instead of

873
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 1: just the banking bill or instead of just like a

874
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 1: smaller business only component is really important. I think, you know,

875
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: from Drug Policy Alliance perspective, and many of our allies

876
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 1: as well. You know, we're calling on Congress and especially

877
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 1: the House and saying, look, let's pass this through in

878
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: this Congress and be able to put the pressure on

879
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 1: the Senate side. You know, Senator Schumers, the majority leader,

880
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 1: is saying that he wants to move on this. Uh,

881
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,319
Speaker 1: like you said, Ethan with or without Biden. So let's

882
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 1: you know, serve up the foundations to be able to

883
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: make that happen. Yeah, I'll take you also a Schumer

884
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 1: you know, I mean people saying the reason he's doing

885
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,800
Speaker 1: this is because he's worried about getting primaried by AOC

886
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 1: in A in the Senate primary in a year or so,

887
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: and and so there may be something to that. But

888
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: I'll tell you, in my occasional interactions with him over

889
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,760
Speaker 1: the last few decades, I always saw him as somebody

890
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: who when he came to the broader drug war, he

891
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 1: was among the worst Democrats, like Biden, like Feinstein, there

892
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 1: were people who were, you know, like the Republicans when

893
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 1: it came to just being cruel and dumb on on

894
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: a harsh drug war. But Schumer always was kind of

895
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: more relaxed on the marijuana stuff, and I think he's

896
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 1: always understood, you know, So finally, um, you know what's

897
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: next for you, um in New York now that marijuana

898
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 1: is legalized. I mean obviously paying attention to the implementation,

899
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 1: but what beyond this, Yeah, of course implementation is going

900
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 1: to be huge and making sure that this all actually

901
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 1: gets you know, stood up and out the door properly. Um.

902
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: And you know, having that sort of checks and balances

903
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: on the on all of the provisions that we put

904
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,399
Speaker 1: in there that we just were talking about making sure

905
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 1: people actually know about all of this stuff. Um. But

906
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: you know, we were fighting the drug war in all

907
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 1: of its forms in New York and so you know,

908
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: Drug Policy Alliance earlier this year released the Uprooting the

909
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: Drug War Reports and Analysis, which is really looking at

910
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 1: all of the different ways in which different system that

911
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,879
Speaker 1: people interact with on a regular basis have been really

912
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 1: contaminated by the drug war as well. So looking at

913
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 1: how you know, education has sort of the tentacles of

914
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 1: the drug war that have now wound its way through

915
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: all of these different aspects of that system. You know,

916
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:18,839
Speaker 1: employment is another example, public benefits, child welfare, immigration, all

917
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 1: of these aspects that you know, we we worked on

918
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: being able to attempt in some form or another within

919
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 1: the Marijuana Regulation and Taxation Act as part of the

920
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,919
Speaker 1: broader work around marijuana justice. We now need to take

921
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,359
Speaker 1: that into these other systems in New York State as well.

922
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 1: Well you don't. Yeah, I'm just saying we forgot to

923
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 1: mention that automatic expungement a marijuana offenses that you got

924
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 1: into this law, where in other states people had to

925
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 1: apply for it, it it was more limited, but in New

926
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 1: York when really is going to result in expulsion for

927
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 1: what probably hundreds of thousands of people, that's right, Yeah,

928
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: it will be on the order of hundreds of thousands

929
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,800
Speaker 1: of people. It'll extend far further than the twenty nineteen

930
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,359
Speaker 1: Automatic Expungiment Bill, which actually established expungement for the first

931
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 1: time ever in New York State. That was because of

932
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: our efforts. UM and now under this bill, a much

933
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: larger universe of offenses will qualify for automatic expungement for

934
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 1: people who have immigration considerations. There's a separate track that

935
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 1: we were really mindful of, working with allies to make

936
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 1: sure that that language was crafted to effectively provide relief

937
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: there too. Yeah. Well, you know, just to finish this

938
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: up here. I mean, you know, I'm when I'm thinking back,

939
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:25,239
Speaker 1: I feel this tremendous sense of of both pride and

940
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 1: fulfillment um about what's happened now, because you know, with

941
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: Drug Policy Alliance, we had offices in New York and DC.

942
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: You know, we expanded to California and to call it

943
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: to New Mexico, New Jersey, and Colorado. And this year

944
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 1: New Jersey, in New York and New Mexico, the three

945
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 1: news of the right all legalized, which means that all

946
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:46,399
Speaker 1: of the d p A states where we actually had

947
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:50,399
Speaker 1: people working full time have now legalized marijuana. Now. The

948
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: other place that d p A was very much in

949
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 1: the news not long ago was for the ballot Initiative

950
00:47:56,320 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 1: and Oregon the decriminalized possession of small amounts of a drugs,

951
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 1: not just marijuana, but you know, heroin, cocaine, f anthonemy, whatever, um,

952
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 1: and really introduced a kind of Portugal style European approach.

953
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,879
Speaker 1: So is that part of your upcoming agenda New York.

954
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: That's definitely part of the conversation that we're having in

955
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 1: New York around just how do we shift from a

956
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 1: criminalization approach to drugs to one that is much more

957
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 1: rooted in providing people with the care and the resources

958
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 1: that they need if they're experiencing problematic use, and leaving

959
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: them alone to live their lives with dignity and peace

960
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: if they're not experiencing problematic use. Right, So, I mean,

961
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 1: let's hope that New York can become one of the

962
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 1: first states to move all drug DCRIM and all the

963
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 1: related elements of that through the legislative process, because that

964
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:42,320
Speaker 1: would be a major breakthrough in national leadership. So Melissa,

965
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 1: I just want to thank you. I'm so incredibly proud

966
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 1: of the work that you've accomplished, and you and and

967
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 1: our colleague Cassandra who is you know, your predecessor in

968
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 1: the New York effort is now my successors head of

969
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 1: Drug Policy Alliance. But you've done really fantastic work, and uh,

970
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 1: just congratulations, congratulations. You've provided at a model both for

971
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 1: the rest of the country and even the rest of

972
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 1: the world about how to legalize marijuana in a way

973
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:09,399
Speaker 1: that really does justice all around and especially to those

974
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: who are most harmed by the drug warp. So thank you,

975
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:14,439
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, Thanks so much for the conversation today,

976
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 1: and thank you for founding Drug Policy Alliance for giving

977
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:22,320
Speaker 1: me a job my great pleasure. Psychoactive is a production

978
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Protozoa Pictures. It's hosted by

979
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 1: me Ethan Naedelman. It's produced by Katcha Kumkova and Ben Kibrick.

980
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: The executive producers are Dylan Golden, Ari Handel, Elizabeth Geesus

981
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 1: and Darren Aronovski for Protozoa Pictures, Alex Williams and Matt

982
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: Frederick for I Heart Radio and me Ethan Naedelman. Our

983
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 1: music is by Ari Blusian and a special thanks to

984
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 1: a viv Brio, Sef Bianca Grimshaw and Robert Beatty. If

985
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: you'd like to share your own stories, comments, or ideas,

986
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 1: please leave us a message at eight three three seven

987
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:04,840
Speaker 1: seven nine six. That's one eight three three psycho zero.

988
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 1: You can also email us as Psychoactive at protozoa dot

989
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: com or find me on Twitter at Ethan Natalman. And

990
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 1: if you couldn't keep track of all this, find the

991
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:22,320
Speaker 1: information in the show notes. And on the next episode

992
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: of Psychoactive, we'll be talking to overdose expert Professor Dan Chick.

993
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 1: Our owne what the hell is going on here? I

994
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 1: mean it just keeps going up and up. It's a

995
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 1: devastating problem. Uh, we'll get into nitty gritty, but what's

996
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 1: your kind of, you know, bird's eye view of what's

997
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 1: going on in America? It is well, As I told

998
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:45,839
Speaker 1: The New York Times, this is a historic crisis. If

999
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 1: you look back almost forty years at mortality data due

1000
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 1: to illicit drugs, we see a log rhythmic upward trend.

1001
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:59,280
Speaker 1: That's a trend that you would have to deliberately try

1002
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 1: to make that outrageous. Subscribe to Cycleactive now see it,

1003
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:05,400
Speaker 1: don't miss it.