WEBVTT - Where We're Going We Do Need Roads 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.080 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:13.760 Forward Thinking. Hey there, and welcome to Forward Thinking, the 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:17.360 podcast that looks at the future and says hit the road, Jack. 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:21.160 I'm Jonathan Strickland and I'm Joe McCormick. How are you 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:24.159 doing today, Jonathan, I'm well, Joe. We should mention that 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:27.440 our co host Lauren is out today. Oh yeah, she 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:29.840 is out, but hopefully she will be back with us 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:33.760 next week. So we've mentioned several times on the show 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:37.440 before that we're based in Atlanta, Georgia. Yes, the A 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:42.479 t L. What what. I very much love living in Atlanta. Actually, 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:44.559 I have a lot of love for the city. But 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:48.519 there is one thing I do not love about this city. 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:53.520 Does it involve putting metal plates onto onto the road 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:55.400 so that when you drive over it it is the 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:59.480 most jarring experience ever. Well, it's the broader concept of 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:03.400 drive in Atlanta, got you? Yeah, that's the road conditions 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:08.360 in Atlanta range from passable to I think mad Max 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:12.520 might have been here. Yeah yeah, yeah, Well I guess 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:14.240 they do that in other cities. I don't know. Yeah, 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:18.320 sometimes like there's been roadwork and yeah, it's like they 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:21.160 don't know. They were like, Oh, there's some huge holes 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:23.680 in the road, We'll just put some tissues over the 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:25.600 top of it. The tissues in the form of like 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:29.119 a giant steel plate bolted down to the road. Yeah, 0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:32.160 we've we've had um. There are a few major roads 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:34.399 in Atlanta that get a lot of traffic that have 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:37.000 had this issue. So it got us to thinking, what 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:39.720 if we talked about the future of roads. Is this 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:43.640 what we're destined to be, you know, to to to 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:45.840 live with the rest of our lives. Are we going 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:47.800 to get to a point where we have jet packs 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:49.880 and flying cars but the roads are still covered with 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:53.520 potholes and steel plates? You know? It could be that 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:57.520 that probably depends on the will of our legislators, so 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:01.560 test your local politicians. But anyway, no, I do think 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:04.000 it would be worth talking about roads, which is what 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:05.960 we're gonna do today, because we've talked about the future 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:09.600 of transportation lots of times. We've talked about flying cars, 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:14.080 about electric vehicles, fuel cell vehicles, hybrid vehicles, we've talked 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:16.440 about mass transit. I mean, there's a ton of room 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:19.760 to grow with the future of transportation. But one thing 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:24.520 we haven't really talked about is the transportation infrastructure itself, 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:28.720 the roads and the bridges that get us from place 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:32.079 to place. And you might think, Okay, I mean, how 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:34.560 can roads really changed that? Basically you just need like 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:38.280 a flat surface with some lane markers indicated. There you go, 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:41.919 I mean, what else do you need to change? There's 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:44.519 actually a lot. Yeah, there's there's a lot of the 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:46.680 you know, and there's going to be a kind of 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:49.560 a common theme as we go throughout this podcast, and 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:53.760 the one of the major marks of that common theme 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:58.160 is that any attempt to make big changes to the 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:02.640 road system is going to require an enormous investment of 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:07.400 time and money in resources because it's an established system. 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:09.640 And sure, we spend a lot of money in time 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:14.680 maintaining that system, but the thought of truly upgrading it 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:19.200 is that's a pretty big deal. And that the question 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:21.440 we have to ask ourselves is at what point do 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:23.640 we say, hey, no, this is a it is a 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:27.880 big deal, but it's worth it to go through that process, right, 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:30.720 And I think we should get the big tuna in 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:35.200 the basket out of an expression tuna in the basket. 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:37.839 I should get the big tuna in the basket out 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:40.880 of the basket first, right, And I know you're sitting 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:45.800 there at home thinking solar roadways, solar freaking roadways, as 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:50.240 the video repeatedly announced you did you ever see that video, 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:52.800 the solar freaking roadways video. I don't think so. I 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:56.160 mean I read their their fundraising campaign stuff. So when 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:59.840 there there's a we should, we should say solar roadways 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:03.840 is the name of a proposed system of road redesign 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:08.160 and to to end up instead of using asphalt for roadways, 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:12.400 using solar panels that have been specifically engineered to withstand 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:16.680 the the abuse that a road would encounter on its 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:20.040 day to day life. This blew up on the internet 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:23.480 last year. Yeah, um, it might have even been two 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:25.919 years ago when it first was being mentioned. But at 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:29.120 any rate, you had this couple who had come up 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:31.880 with this this notion, and they had plotted out the 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:36.080 kind of the electronic uh blueprint that would be necessary 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:40.320 to make it work. And we're very optimistic about how 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:45.360 it could be feasible, right, both from a physics standpoint 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:50.400 and an economical standpoint. Although the economic side was largely 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:53.920 obvious skated, I would say the there seemed to be 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:58.200 a belief that the cost of solar panels would drop 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:02.800 dramatically due to an increase in manufacturing, which is generally true, 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:04.839 but you have to get there first, right, it doesn't 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:08.839 magically happen at any rate. The video that went along 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:13.720 with the fundraising campaign had an extremely enthusiastic narrator who 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:18.279 extolled the virtues of solar freaking roadways, and it was 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:22.400 done almost like, uh, like, if you see those all 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:26.880 those commercials for the Monster Truck Rally Sunday Sunday Sunday, 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:32.760 solar freaking roadways, that kind of thing. Um, And if 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:34.680 you think about it, like, if you can make this 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:38.520 system work, there are some legitimate cool things you could 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:41.920 really do with it. One, you could change the road 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:46.640 system from being just this passive network of pathways into 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:52.320 an active electricity generating system. You could power cities with 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:54.680 the roads. Sure well. I mean, if you look out 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:59.040 over a hot highway in the summer, you will notice that, huh, 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:01.520 you know, there's a lot of energy going to waste 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:03.840 when you see the mirage coming up off the road 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:07.159 and the distance that's heat, that's all just entropy, that's 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:10.599 wasted energy. That could that solar energy that's going into 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:13.960 being absorbed by the road and then radiating back outward 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:19.039 as heat could potentially be harnessed. It's it's uh, it's enticing. 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:21.600 It makes you think, oh man, what can we do 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:23.960 with all that energy? Of course, you could say the 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:26.680 same thing about the energy that falls all over the 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:29.440 entire surface of the Earth, over the oceans and the 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:32.320 alerts and yeah, everywhere. I mean, this is the that's 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:34.559 the whole premise of solar energy in the first place, 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:36.960 is to take a surface that is going to be 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:40.760 exposed to solar radiation and cover that surface with solar 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:44.360 cells which are able to absorb solar radiation, and then 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:47.280 convert that into electricity. I mean, that's the whole premise, 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:51.800 and the really the question comes down to does it 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:55.480 make sense in this area? In other words, is the 0:06:55.480 --> 0:07:00.080 the expense of purchasing and installing solar panels in that 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:04.200 area going to economically makes sense? Are you going to 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:07.599 receive enough sunlight in that particular area to generate the 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:11.160 electricity you actually require, or is all this effort going 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.400 to be for not? Like if I if I cover 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:17.360 an area in solar panels, but that area rarely gets sunlight, 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:20.400 then I haven't done myself any favors. Right, So there 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:22.600 are a lot of these questions, but the the general 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:26.080 thought was, well, the roads cross all over the United States. 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:29.320 That that was the sort of the the area that 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:32.240 the fundraising campaign was focusing on was the United States 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:35.800 of America. So roads go all over the US and 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:38.440 a lot of those roads are receiving tons of sunlight, 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:42.000 even when you factor in the fact that that sometimes 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:44.480 there are cars on the road that blocks sunlight from 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:47.600 happening from hitting the road. But the idea was, oh, 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:51.080 you got this distributed way of generating electricity, a distributed 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:55.280 power generation system, which is incredible. It's it would be 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:57.480 amazing to be able to do this as opposed to 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:02.560 having uh you know, regionalized power generation, right yeah, yeah, sure. 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:05.360 I mean it's easy to get enthusiastic for this idea. 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:08.960 It's like solar roadways applied directly to the roadways, right. 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:12.120 Uh you know, I didn't get that joke for the 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:14.720 longest time until I can't remember what channel finally had 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:16.800 those was it? Is it? Head on? Is that what 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:20.920 it is? I can't apply directly to forehead anyway, um 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:23.640 at any rates. So the idea being that this would 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:26.600 generate electricity. That that would be a huge benefit right 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:29.440 there where you're you're turning something that normally would not 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:32.920 be doing anything other than providing a pathway into power generation. 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:35.680 But also you could have other cool features embedded in it. 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:39.520 Sure well, this would make the roadways inherently electronic, which 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:42.360 would give you the potential to make them not just 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:45.960 passive and static, but to make them active and reactive. 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:49.880 So one of the best features I've actually heard about 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:53.040 the proposition of solar roadways is the idea of dynamic 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:59.000 lane shifting. Right. Yes, so I live off the street 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:03.720 in Atlanta to that has a reversible lane, and this 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:07.280 is the cab avenue. And now you've given my address. No, 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:09.600 no you haven't. You've just given a road I live off. 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:13.400 It's perfectly fine. Road is a long road, Yeah, so 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:17.680 it has. It has in some stretches a center lane. Yes, 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:20.280 that either has an arrow over it or an X. 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:23.520 Full of evil magic. Yeah, it is full of evil magic, 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:26.040 because not everyone knows that a reversible lane. When it's 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:27.760 an X, it means you don't get in that lane. 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:30.600 It means that the traffic that's coming towards you. Oncoming 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:33.960 traffic has that lane and they change it throughout the day. 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:37.640 So in the morning, when there's a lot of traffic 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:40.520 heading into the city, the two lanes that head into 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:42.320 the city or the you know, the middle lane is 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:46.040 the go is now allowing traffic to head towards the city. 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:47.880 And in the afternoon, when a lot of traffic is 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.640 moving away, the middle lane allows traffic to move away 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:52.760 from the city. And they they show this with that 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:55.400 X or arrow. The problem is a lot of people 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:57.559 don't know how that works and they or they don't 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:00.000 recognize it, or they think the middle lane is actually 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:03.760 a turning lanes. So with any intersection you might see 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:06.040 someone in the wrong lane of traffic. It's it's as 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:07.839 if they're going the wrong way down a one way street, 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:11.000 you know. To designate this, you're looking at signs hanging 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:14.280 above the road because obviously we can't change the lines 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:16.720 that are painted on the road. They're all series of 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:22.080 of dashed lines. But what if instead of painted lines, 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:25.400 you had embedded L E D s inside these solar 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:27.840 panels and they just took a little bit of electricity 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:31.680 that was being generated by the solar panels and they 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:35.760 projected light so that you would see the division of 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:39.920 the street right there on the street. So, in other words, 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:44.840 you could actually dynamically change those traffic patterns by changing 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:47.000 the lanes as you're driving. It might say, all right, 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:49.120 you need to move over to the right, so you 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:51.679 you move over into the right lane, and then eventually 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:55.719 the lanes change so that the traffic is being directed 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:58.800 in whichever direction it needs to be, and you could 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:01.600 do it as me times throughout the day as was 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:04.920 warranted based upon traffic patterns. You could also set up 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:07.240 warnings for things like, let's say that there has been 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:10.600 an accident. You could actually have warnings displayed on the 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:13.839 street itself to let drivers know about it so that 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:16.600 they can slow down and make sure that they don't 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:21.040 make the situation worse. Um. There were even suggestions that 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.240 there could be some sort of pressure sensitivity. I don't 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:26.280 know how you would do this without it the road 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:29.320 constantly going crazy, but that there could be some pressure 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:34.600 sensitivity where if an animal were to start crossing the street, 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:40.080 uh an alert would pop up, or the panels around 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:43.439 where the animals stepping would light up, thus giving drivers 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:47.320 and a visual indication that there is something obstructing the 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:51.560 road and preventing a potential accident. Okay, now, we have 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:56.320 already stated that the cost of installing millions of solar 0:11:56.360 --> 0:12:00.520 panels to replace highways could be prohibitive and will get 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:03.200 more into the details in the second But once you're 0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:06.679 adding all of this functionality, it sounds like you're increasing 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:11.520 the cost again and again and again. Yeah. Well, and 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:14.319 and that's not the only cost too. I mean there's 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:19.079 another feature that would also add some some cost to this. Yeah, yeah, 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:22.600 so uh there. I don't know, Joe, you and I 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:24.520 we don't deal with us very much. But there's some 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:28.640 places where sometimes water gets cold and then it gets 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:32.080 hard and slippery and turns into this ice stuff, which 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:35.040 we normally find in t A. But it can get 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:37.640 on the ground too, not just in t and that's 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:40.840 when things get tricky. Oh no, this happened in Atlanta. 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:45.000 We'll talk about that situation a little bit later. I 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:47.640 am obviously being facetious. It does happen in Atlanta. We 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:50.520 get ice storms here in the city occasionally. In fact, 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:54.160 we get ice more frequently than we get snow and um. 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:57.160 But the one of the ideas that the solar roadways 0:12:57.200 --> 0:12:59.880 people were one of the features they were claiming the 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:01.960 roads would have it. They'd be able to have some 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.720 sort of heating element in them, and again you would 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:07.520 dedicate some electricity to the heating element to raise the 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:11.080 temperature of the roads so that ice would not form 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.600 on the roads themselves. Uh. Which again that would be 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:17.559 a great feature. Right, So you would have dynamic streets 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:21.560 that could alert you to changing conditions, that could route 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:24.160 traffic in a way to make it as efficient as possible. 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:29.400 That we're generating electricity and we're melting ice. It's pretty amazing. Yeah. 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:32.040 If I could snap my fingers and make that a reality, 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:35.439 I probably would. Yeah, And here's where we start running 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:38.880 into some some problems. So there have been a lot 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:42.040 of folks who have raised some criticism of the solar 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:47.120 roadways plan, uh for for various reasons. Uh. One is 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:49.680 most common criticism I saw was cost. Yeah, that would 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:52.240 be the big one. Uh. Solar panels are not cheap 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:56.319 so um, even if you were to mass manufacture them, 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:58.480 at least in the beginning, they would be pretty expensive 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:02.640 per panel. They're talking about using these hexagonal panels, right, 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:05.319 and you would place them together kind of like a 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:08.960 giant settlers of Catan. Uh. For the entire nation to 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:12.520 drive on. So there's that my street will trade you 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:15.880 sheep for your bricks something along those lines. Yes, and 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:22.040 obviously asphalt is something that can kind of it can 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:26.960 its form, can can curve along with the landscape. So 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:29.240 you know that's another issue is that you've got these 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:32.520 solid panels that don't do that. They don't have flex 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:34.800 to them, so that that causes an issue. So that 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:37.640 means that even if you have the panels, let's say 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.080 that you've you've paid for the panels, that's that's awesome, 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:42.320 You've got them, you're ready to put them down. Well, 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.680 now you also have to pay for the labor, which 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:48.000 would probably be the it would dwarf the cost of 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:50.880 the solar panels because you have to rip up the 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:55.920 infrastructure you have, the roads you have and install new infrastructure, 0:14:56.360 --> 0:15:00.000 which would be the solar panels and the channels necessary 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:03.480 for the cable ing to go along the roads. Because 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:07.680 these panels are are not just magically beaming electricity. They 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:11.400 have to channel you know, they use cables to UH 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:15.040 to run electricity through to the power grid, which also 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:16.680 means you would have to have some sort of power 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:20.480 processings UH system like you know, maybe boxes that would 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:22.480 be along every few hundred feet along the side of 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.760 the roads to which the power grid could attach and 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:28.720 the electricity generated by these roads could then flow into 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:32.120 the power grid. Otherwise, where's the where's the electricity going? 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:34.880 I mean, do you just put batteries everywhere? I mean 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:38.960 what it doesn't make sense, right, So then you've got 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:43.080 that expense, they the labor expense. That labor is going 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:46.800 to be additionally more expensive because they're going to have 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.880 to start leveling more sections of the road. If you 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:54.640 want these hexagons to line up properly, obviously, you would 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:59.520 not want there to be like sharp peaks from where 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:02.920 to two different panels are meeting over a little you know, 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:06.040 lump in the road or a hill or whatever. So 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:08.400 that's gonna be really expensive. It would take a huge 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:14.240 amount of time too. So it's one thing to repave 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:16.320 a certain stretch of road and you have to route 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.600 traffic around it. Anyone who's had to, you know, work 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:23.120 in any kind of of large urban area where there's 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:26.600 roadwork knows how frustrating that can be. Well, imagine if 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:30.160 you're can, you're you are determined to completely replace that 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:33.720 road that the entire highway with solar panels. You you 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:35.960 would have to figure that out. This would take huge 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:38.880 amounts of civil planning to figure out how to route 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:42.040 traffic around an area that is now going to be 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:46.160 off limits while the existing road is dug up and 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:48.760 the new foundation is put down and the new panels 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:52.600 are installed. It's just it's just such a huge undertaking 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:54.680 that it's hard to imagine how you could do it 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:58.280 in a way that would be economically viable. Yeah, when 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:02.920 I encounter this idea, the main question I have is, Okay, 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:06.320 so I understand the proposed benefits of being able to 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:10.359 have like adaptive lane shifting and and and warnings and 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:13.239 messages on the road and stuff like that, but if 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:17.399 you're just talking about generating power, in what way is 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:21.560 solar roadways better than just having a bunch of solar 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:25.439 farms out in the desert. Yeah, that's an excellent question, because, 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:29.679 on top of the expense that we've already covered, solar 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:34.280 panels have a lifetime, right they get gradually they start 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:37.720 to degrade and you need to replace them, So that's 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:41.680 an ongoing expense. It's not just the initial installation. You 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:46.200 would have to continuously spend money to replace solar panels, 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:50.880 and solar panels are not perfectly efficient. They don't capture 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.320 all the energy from the sun. They are not able 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:56.520 to convert all of that energy to electricity. The electricity 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.320 they do generate is, you know, per solar cell, it 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:01.800 tends to be the the you know, like the Milla 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:06.240 amps level that we're talking tiny amounts of electricity. So yeah, collectively, 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:09.680 you'd be generating a lot, but individually they generate very little. 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:12.320 Oh sure, I mean, I'm not against getting lots of 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:14.560 our energy from solar I think as much as we 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:16.960 could that would be great, But like, why is this 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:19.840 any better than just having a bunch of solar form? 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:23.000 It's not. And that's the problem. Is that because in 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:25.600 order for you to make the let's say that you've 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.600 got the best solar cells on the planet, right or 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:31.240 technically orbiting the planet, because those tend to be the 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:33.119 ones that are the highest quality of the ones that 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:35.879 we put into space. Let's say that you get the 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:38.520 highest ones, Well, you're you're going to have to protect 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:44.320 those right from being driven over constantly like some thick 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:47.600 glass that would be supportive of the weight of a truck. Yeah, 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:49.879 so thick tempered glass, which is going to limit the 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:52.200 amount of solar energy that can get to your solar cells. 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:55.239 So you're already taking a hit there. Plus you've got 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:59.280 all these other things to worry about, like dust, dirt, oil, grime, 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:02.920 you know, scratches, all this rubber, all this kind of 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:06.920 stuff that could end up further making the solar cell 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:10.480 less efficient in capturing solar energy, let alone converting it 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:15.000 to electricity. With all that in mind, there are very 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:19.440 few advantages of using this stuff to pave a road 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:23.560 rather than using a giant solar farm where you don't 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:28.880 have those features. Typically don't see giants semitrucks driving over 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:33.800 solar farms. It doesn't happen. But that's exactly what they 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:36.800 do on highways. So a lot of people have said, 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:40.280 why would we ever invest in this? I mean, it's 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:44.480 the features are cool, but they're not cool enough to 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:48.879 justify the expense and the labor necessary to make it happen. 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:52.960 If you, you know, it only makes sense if you've 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:56.400 already exhausted all the other surfaces upon which we could 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:59.600 put solar panels um and we haven't done that. I mean, 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:02.720 we have really put solar panels on that much here 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:07.440 in the United States, you know, comparatively speaking. And if 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:09.560 we had reached that point, then you might say, all right, well, 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:14.320 let's let's turn the roads into into that too, because yeah, 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:17.000 we don't even have solar panels on all our roofs yet, 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:21.120 right put them on the roads exactly. So, I mean 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:26.119 there's also other questions like would these would these roads 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:31.640 remain uh active and and uh and effective for any 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:35.400 length of time. Obviously roads are are subjected to huge 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:40.520 forces repeatedly, and so uh, you know, it may be 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:43.720 that some cells would get knocked out of alignment, which 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:47.480 means they could be disconnected and perhaps no longer generating 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:51.679 electricity or able to display the um the lights. You know, 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:55.120 they might not be communicating anymore effectively, got a dead 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:59.560 pixel in your road? Yeah, And while the design was 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:02.720 was meant to make it easy to replace solar cells, 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:06.760 if that happens frequently, then you've got a huge headache 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:09.760 right as you're constantly having to send cruise out to 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:15.600 either reconnect or replace dead solar cells. Uh. And you 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:19.159 know it's stuff like ice heaving, which is when ice 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:22.560 you know, when when water freezes it expands it's one 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:24.840 of the few things that actually does that. I don't 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:30.120 believe you try it. Here's here's an experiment to try 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:33.639 at home. Fill up a cup of water, uh and 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:36.199 then put it in the freezer, and then observe the 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:38.639 level after it is frozen, and you will see it 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:42.119 is higher than what you've filled it up to. Um 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:45.280 And since ice expands, it can push stuff apart. So 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:47.600 if the water gets in between the solar cells and 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:51.760 then freezes even despite the you know, the heating element, 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:56.840 sometimes the weather can overpower a system like it does 0:21:56.880 --> 0:22:00.000 happen if it's if it's intense enough, then you could 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:05.280 up with broken connections that way too. So the ultimately 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:08.640 what it comes down to is all of these problems 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:13.040 are revolving around the expense and the efficiency, neither of 0:22:13.040 --> 0:22:16.480 which are at a level that makes a lot of 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:19.880 critics feel comfortable with this approach. Yeah, I think all 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:22.000 these criticisms are valid, though at the same time we 0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:24.359 don't want to sound too down on the idea, like 0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:28.280 discouraging people from trying. I just think that judging from 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:32.520 the sort of expert criticisms that we've read, it doesn't 0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:35.800 seem like this is a very fruitful way to go 0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:39.920 forward with with harvesting solar energy for our grid needs. Yeah, 0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:43.480 I would. I would look to using more of the 0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:47.600 the flat surfaces that are not constantly driven upon as 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:52.439 the potential, uh you know, solar gatherings and places in 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:55.480 a in an urban environment, rather than on the roads themselves. 0:22:55.520 --> 0:22:59.240 I think maybe a parking lot. But even then you 0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:02.520 have to, like I would experiment with the parking lot first. 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:04.879 I mean, what I would say is why not above 0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:07.080