1 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Hey, you welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh and 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: there's Chuck and Jerry's lurking in the background, sitting in 3 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,239 Speaker 1: for guest producer, but real producer, Dave. And this is 4 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: short stuff guests but real Yeah, not like you blow 5 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 1: up doll guest producers. Now they're well, they're real in 6 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: a I guess a material wave, that's it. Yeah, something 7 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: sometimes emotional. I guess you could get wrapped up in 8 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. I suppose I've seen Lars and 9 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: the real girl. You dressed up as that for Halloween? Yes, yeah, 10 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,919 Speaker 1: that was pretty pretty good. That was all you mean. 11 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: She came up with that one. That was good, very nice. 12 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,279 Speaker 1: And I love a good obscure Halloween costume. Yes, so, 13 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: speaking of obscure Halloween costumes, Chuck, you could do worse 14 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: than dressing up as John Gotti the Teflon don, couldn't 15 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: you have? You got the hair for it, you, Yeah, 16 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: that's the main thing. You gotta have the hair. But 17 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: you also have to have the attitude, you know, Yeah, 18 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: like I can do whatever I want and nothing sticks. Yeah, 19 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: that's close. That's pretty close. I was to get more, 20 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: just like, you know, almost unprovoked violence to to the 21 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 1: to the end of as a means to the end 22 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 1: of gaining money and power. Yeah, I mean that's our generations, 23 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: like real life Vito Corleone type stuff. Yeah. Yeah, he 24 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 1: was like kind of, as far as I can tell, 25 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:35,759 Speaker 1: like the last of the real mob bosses exactly. He 26 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: went down. Man, we're gonna get like a letter from 27 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: the Italian American Anti Defamation. Yeah, they're gonna say, dear 28 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: Chuck Gobbagon isn't a thing, right, So yeah, I mean 29 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: he he went down in and I would say that 30 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: golden Age, the heyday of mafios in the United States 31 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: was in the sixties. But the way he went down 32 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,639 Speaker 1: was thanks to uh a law that got asked about 33 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: twenty years prior to him going down, called the Rico Act, 34 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: which is one of those things that like everybody has 35 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: heard of, but it doesn't necessarily know exactly how it works, 36 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And that's what we're here 37 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: to explain how the Rico Act works. Yeah, it's I mean, 38 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: the Rico Act is something that if you are in 39 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: our generation or even a little younger, and you've watched 40 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: any sopranos or any sort of modern day Mafia movie. 41 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: You're gonna hear RICO thrown around a lot, because that 42 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: is the kind of the only thing that they found 43 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: that has teeth with these cases. It stands for the 44 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, And you know, it's 45 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: you know, a racket is like you hear in those 46 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: movies on the street, like you got a numbers racket 47 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: or protection racket. And I just think it's kind of 48 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: funny that racketeering became the official word, you know, I know. 49 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 1: And it's also it made the whole thing way more 50 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:57,799 Speaker 1: muddy than it has to be, I think, you know 51 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: what I mean, Yeah, racket and racketeering. If they just 52 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:03,679 Speaker 1: call it like the Organized Crime Act, it would be 53 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: a perfect umbrella that would be far more understandable because 54 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: a lot of people do think of rackets as like 55 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: a numbers racket or a prostitution ring or something like Underworld, 56 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And RICO has been extended 57 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: successfully to boardrooms and um, you know, to white collar 58 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: crime as well, and all of that would be considered 59 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: organized crime. That's the point. It's some people working carrying 60 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 1: out business and the business is illegal. Um, it's using 61 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: illegal activities to gain revenue, to gain income. That's a racket, 62 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: and it doesn't just have to be something like shady 63 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: and underworld like a numbers racket, right, And racketeering specifically 64 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: is anytime a person is is managing a situation or 65 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: an enterprise or a company or a corporation or a 66 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: crime family where there is a pattern of activities like 67 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: this going on. And people like John Gotti and so 68 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: many before him, you know, they called him teflon Don 69 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: for a reason because nothing would stick like they would 70 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: just they weren't the trigger people. They weren't the person, 71 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: you know, stabbing someone in a trunk in a hayfield, 72 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 1: Joe Pecci style man that was violent, or carrying out 73 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: the numbers game or having the meeting about the protection. 74 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,799 Speaker 1: Sometimes they were so high level that they didn't actually 75 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: commit technically any of these crimes personally. No. So they 76 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: could get the guy who was stabbing the guy in 77 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: the trunk in the hay field, they could get him 78 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: for murder, no problem, you know what I mean, But 79 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: they couldn't get the person who was genuinely at its 80 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 1: core responsible for that murder, the person who was organizing 81 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: this enterprise or managing the enterprise. And that's what the 82 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: Recoact is all about, is creating a law that the 83 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: FEDS used to go after the c suite level people 84 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 1: in organized crime, whether it's a legitimate business where like 85 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 1: though it's white collar crime, or whether it's organized crime 86 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 1: family like a carteller, cind kidder, mafia, mafia. Boy. That 87 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: that stuff was just rolling off your tongue until the 88 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 1: very end, until the end I clarked it up. That's 89 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: the that's the rarely used second definition of Clark, where 90 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: you just completely screw something beautiful up at the end. 91 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: It's not like a great thing where you give someone 92 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: a candy bar, right, Clark bar. If you clarksonone at 93 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: Clark Bar, I think the universe would fold in on it. 94 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 1: All right. I think we should take a break and 95 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 1: we'll talk a little bit more about what the RICO 96 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 1: Act and what it isn't right after this. That's why 97 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: s game a little bit that you should know, why 98 00:05:36,760 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: game should knows but Clark alright, so we're back. The 99 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: first thing about the R I c O Rico Act 100 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: is that we should say is that I think a 101 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: lot of people are under the impression that they built 102 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 1: out the RICO Act to make it super easy just 103 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: to go after like a crime boss. And all you 104 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: have to do is basically say, you know, it's the 105 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 1: reco Act in your racketeering. It's um. It is broad 106 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: language wise, but the Supreme Court and appeals courts have 107 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: all come together to sort of nine, Yeah, they did. 108 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: They sort of narrowed down that language to make it, um, 109 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: not tougher, but just a little more specific. Yeah, but 110 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: I think in doing so they definitely did make it tougher. UM. 111 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: And the Feds apparently use a racketeering charge or they 112 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 1: use the reco act when there's when there's nothing else, 113 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: Like if they have somebody caught red handed, you know, 114 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: directly ordering a murder or committing the murder or delivering 115 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: you know, fifty keys of cocaine or something, there's a 116 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: lot they got that person on that on that broken 117 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: law like that crime. Uh, they don't need anything else. 118 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: The RICO they go to when there's nothing else, but 119 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: they have some sort of evidence that that person is directing, 120 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: calling the shots of this business where those kind of 121 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: activities are being carried out. Right, And it's really sort 122 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: of a two part um proving process. You have to 123 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: prove that there is a pattern of this stuff going on, 124 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: and it wasn't just like I think if it's just 125 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: like one murder and and it's not a racketeering thing, 126 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: that's just hiring somebody or directing someone to carry out 127 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: a murder. But you have to prove that it's a 128 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: pattern of criminal activity within an organization. And then you 129 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: need to prove, like really really prove that Gotti or 130 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: whoever it is, is the person who was managing that stuff, 131 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: who was making those calls and directing that operation. Yeah, 132 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: you you have to like really really prove you can't 133 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: just be in corpy, like, come on, it's Sjohn got 134 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: come on that. She couldn't be more shiny, right, So yeah, 135 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: you gotta prove that. But if you got those two parts, 136 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: and that's how they got Gotti. They they had one 137 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: of his underbosses, Samy the Bull, Gravano turned states on him, 138 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: um and uh, he informed on him. He said, yeah, 139 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: I killed a lot of people under John Gotti's direction. 140 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: And they also had a wire tap. I don't know 141 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: if it was from Gravano or not, but they had 142 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: wire taps of of Gotti like issuing orders to other people. 143 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: So they're like, this guy's testimony plus this recording of God, 144 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: he shows that he is the boss of this criminal enterprise. 145 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,079 Speaker 1: Hence they got him on a racketeering charge and he 146 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:43,839 Speaker 1: died in prison. And I saw, also Chuck that the 147 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: other families in New York didn't send any representatives to 148 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: his funeral, which was surprising to me, like out of 149 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: respect or whatever. Yeah, I guess out of disrespect, they 150 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: didn't send anybody. Yeah. This this is the part that's 151 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: kind of funny to me because it's kind of a 152 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: catch twenty two because I feel like, if you're at 153 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: least in the movies, ah, Like, it seems like these 154 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: people want it's for everyone to know who's in charge. 155 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: And then what they get them on is the fact 156 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: that they're in charge, which is what they deny in court, 157 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: like I'm not in charge of anything, Like well, wait 158 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: a minute, I thought you were in charge of everything, right, right? Yeah, 159 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,719 Speaker 1: Well they they some of them have very famously like 160 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: played you know, kind of like doddering out of their minds. 161 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: Elderly men like who couldn't possibly, you know, tie their 162 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: own shoe, let alone run a crime family. And they'll 163 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 1: like play this in court even it's really something to see, 164 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: um so rico cases for a little while and you 165 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: can still have a civil lawsuit. But they for a 166 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: while they were um ordering triple damages if you were 167 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: injured by a rico violation and so in the eighties, 168 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: obviously this is going to lead to just a ground 169 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,319 Speaker 1: swell of attorneys coming after people trying to get that 170 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: that triple money. And so they had to tighten that 171 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: down a little bit. I think they put in a 172 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: four year uh statute of limitations and um even the 173 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: Catholic Church. They came after the Catholic Church with a 174 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: recoaed civil suit. Yeah, they did. They said that the 175 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: all the way up to the pope. I think the 176 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,559 Speaker 1: pope was implicated in the civil suit that they was 177 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: an organized criminal enterprise to obstruct justice and to keep 178 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 1: um to avoid prosecution basically of of priests and others 179 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: who had like sexually abused parishioners, which is I mean, 180 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,319 Speaker 1: I don't know how that one ever ended up. I 181 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: don't know if it's still ongoing, do you. I'm not 182 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: sure about that. Actually, we'll have to look that one up. 183 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: But that was that that's if it's not ongoing. It 184 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: was fairly recent. There's some other recent ones too, UM 185 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: that are far more recent than Gaudi UM that have 186 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: nothing to do with the mob, like here in Atlanta, 187 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: the Atlanta UM School's cheating scandal of two thousand fifteen. 188 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: The people who organized that were indicted on racketeering charges 189 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: and some of them got like twenty years in prison 190 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: for inances. Yeah. That was basically when they were saying, hey, 191 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 1: we can get more federal government juice if we had 192 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:07,839 Speaker 1: better standardized test scorer, So why don't you go in 193 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 1: there and fledge these numbers a little bit? Yeah, and 194 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: and even worse than that, when people said no, they 195 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: would get fired, they would be uh, they would get 196 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: like bad write ups and reviews, and they would miss 197 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: out on like promotions and raises because it was the 198 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,319 Speaker 1: people at the very top were organizing this cheating scandal 199 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 1: scandal UM and so like they were there was like 200 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: it was a criminal enterprise. Basically they were trying to 201 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: build the federal government out of money. I guess it's 202 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: what they went after, mind. But they got a bunch 203 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: of people and apparently it's one of the biggest um 204 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: criminal enterprises ever ever prosecuted. Right here, and that I mean, 205 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: that just gets across like it doesn't have to be 206 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: a mob Boston. The white collar public school teachers obviously 207 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,439 Speaker 1: not to be trusted. Um no, no, no, that's what 208 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: the RICO Act has taught us. No, we're not saying 209 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: that people, so uh, you got anything else? I got 210 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: nothing else I got My hands are clean and I 211 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: didn't do anything. You can't prove nothing, copper. And since 212 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:14,719 Speaker 1: we said that, everybody short stuffing out stuff you should know. 213 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: Is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts 214 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 215 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.