WEBVTT - Six Feet Under 20th Anniversary Special with Alan Ball 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.960 Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I Heart Radio. 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:32.280 Hey everybody, and welcome to Movie Crush Friday, very special 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:36.040 edition because I am sitting here, uh staring at the 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:40.120 very friendly, handsome face of Mr Allan Ball. Hi. There, 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:44.159 Alan Ball, Hi, how's it going. It's going great. It's 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:46.880 so nice to meet you. And I know that here 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:49.600 on the anniversary of six ft Under, you've been making 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:52.440 the round some and I really appreciate you taking some 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:54.320 time for us. This is a very very big deal. 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:56.920 It is my pleasure. I'm very happy to be here. 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:00.640 Uh So, I guess I would love to kind of 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:03.800 just go back to the beginning and talk a little 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:07.040 bit about the origins of the show, in the state 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:10.200 of your career at the time, where you were, kind 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:13.039 of the state of television at the time, because I 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:15.720 feel like six ft Under, along with a very small 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:18.440 handful of shows, kind of helped usher in what we 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:21.160 now look at is the golden age of television or 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:24.360 another golden age of television, And just a little bit 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:29.720 about the beginnings of the of the seed of the show. Well, uh, 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:34.560 I had signed a three year television development deal with 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:39.200 the Green Black Chanilary Studio UM either a week before 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:42.600 or a week after, I sold the script um of 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:49.000 American Beauty to dream Works. Uh A little amazing and 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:55.840 uh and so as part of American Beauty was came 0:01:55.880 --> 0:02:01.400 out UM at the same time, within a again, within 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:08.080 the same week that my first show under that development deal, 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:12.720 a sitcom for ABC called Oh Grow Up, premiered UM 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:15.480 and after American Beauty came out, a lot of people 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:20.079 wanted to meet with me, and uh, Caroline Strauss from 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:22.280 HBO wanted a meeting, and I said, yeah, hell yeah, 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:24.360 I'll take that meeting. Because I had just discovered the 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:27.360 Sopranos and it was like everybody else in America. I 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:30.240 was like, oh, wow, TV can be something completely different 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:34.160 than we all thought it could be. So I met 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:37.960 with Caroline Uh. We had lunch, and she pitched this 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:39.920 idea to me. She said, I've always wanted to do 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:44.120 a show about a family run funeral home and something. Yeah, 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:47.160 and something in my head just went click because I 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:49.920 had spent some time in funeral homes when I was 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:51.880 growing up, because there was a period where people in 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:54.560 my family, A lot of people in my family died, 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:59.840 so I had a real sense of that weird st 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:06.000 wort of surreal, muffled environment that funeral homes are and 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:08.280 um and I thought that would be such a great show. 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:11.360 Um And I said, I really wish I could work 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:14.240 on that, but I've got this TV show on ABC 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:19.839 and and so I'm not available. Well, um, not too 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:23.240 long after that, UM, ABC very graciously canceled my show. 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:29.400 UM and I had yeah, and I had two more 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:32.600 years left on my development deal, and everybody was coming 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:37.280 at me saying, we've got this, you know, we've got 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:40.360 this stand up com comic that you're the perfect person 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:43.440 to build a show around, or we've got this horrible 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:45.960 idea about a man who dies and is reincarnated as 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:48.440 his wife's dog, that you're a perfect You're the perfect 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:51.880 guy to build this show around. And I just was like, 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:53.800 I can't do it. I can't. I gotta get out 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:57.920 because I had spent four years prior to Grow Up 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:04.520 working in traditional four camera sitcom um plus the half 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:07.080 a season that um oh Grow Up lasted, and I 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:10.080 just really I felt like I've done my time in 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:13.440 that particular good lag. I cannot I gotta get out 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.680 of there. So I wrote the pilot to six ft 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:20.919 Under on spec just knowing that HBO was interested in 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:25.160 a show like that, and Uh, I did it when 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:29.159 I went home for the Christmas break. Uh. And I 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:31.279 came back and gave it to my agent and she 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:33.279 gave it to Bob and David and there was a 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:37.039 moment where they said, can't could this be a network show? 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:39.039 And I was like, no, no, it cannot be a 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:43.280 network show. It has to go to HBO. And and 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:45.560 we gave it to HBO and they responded to it, 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:53.039 and um and the rest is history history. Yeah. When 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:55.440 you're writing a pilot like this and you're sort of 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:59.240 handed an idea that you, uh, that you respond to. 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:04.040 When you latch on to what, uh do you literally 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:08.000 just sit down and say, Okay, Who's who's in this family? Um? 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:10.360 And is that more like where can I create the 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:14.440 maybe potentially the best drama or is it who who do? 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:20.160 Who do I want to be in this family? Just emotionally? Um? 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:21.960 I think it's who do I want to be in 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:26.360 this family? Just emotionally. I'm not My My process is 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:33.520 is not particularly conscious. Um. I I sit down to 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:37.640 write and sometimes I just get surprised by what happens 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:40.479 a lot of times it's terrible. I mean I have, 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:43.640 you know, stacks of scripts that I've started, not finished, 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.640 or stacks of scripts that I've finished, UM that just 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:51.520 don't work. But there was something about this particular environment 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:54.839 and these particular characters that just sort of it's like 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:58.760 they came out of me fully formed. UM. And I'm 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:01.200 not saying that's any sort of mystical thing. I think 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:02.520 it's just I do a lot of work on a 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:09.400 subconscious level and then it just sort of spills out. UM. Yeah, 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:14.960 I I it just felt right. And also I was 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:20.360 at the time, I was grieving from my failed ABC sitcom, 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:23.520 so I you know, I poured a little bit of 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:28.080 that grief into the pilot. But I what I love. 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:30.800 I'm not a big fan of development because I've never 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:35.760 had an experience in development where things actually got better. UM. 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:39.440 I just and and so the fact that I was 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:46.400 able to do this all outside of a development process, UM, 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:50.120 I think allowed it to to to be very specific 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:53.000 because a lot of a lot of times what happens 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:57.840 with UM development is things get generic. Things, things are 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:01.480 sort of pushed into a direction that feels familiar. Because 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:03.720 that's you know, I think I feel like a lot 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:07.440 of times in development, people want to make things similar 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:11.400 two things that have already been successful. Of course, yeah, 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:16.200 um and I I'm glad that I was able to 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:20.200 sort of figure out the world and the characters without 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:27.280 um it being what's what's the right word, um, ruined. 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:31.960 I wouldn't say ruined, but but blanded out right sure 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:35.920 like to appeal to the broadest spectrum or right, But 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:38.160 I'm not saying that would have happened at HBO because 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:40.720 they were very much about at that time, they were 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:43.680 very much about wanting things that were very different. And 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:47.960 you know that that's back when they're tagline was it's 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:51.720 not TV, It's HBO, right, so they were. They gave 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:53.320 you a lot of room then to just sort of 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:56.600 do your thing. Well. When I gave them the script 0:07:56.680 --> 0:07:58.680 for the pilot, they asked for a meeting, and I 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:01.160 came into the meeting and they said, basically, they said, 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:04.120 we really like this. Our only note is the whole 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:07.520 thing feels kind of safe. We're wondering if you could 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:11.280 just suck it up a little bit more. And literally 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:14.320 those were the words that they used. And I remember thinking, 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:16.880 oh my god, this will never happen to me again. 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:19.400 But this is like a This is like a writer's dream, 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:25.080 you know. Um, And so I I did. I didn't, 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:27.760 you know, go in there and just gratuitously fuck things up. 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:31.680 But I've tried to figure out ways in which, um, 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:34.880 you know, you could tell the story that we're messy, 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:40.240 messier and not as as um cookie cutter. One of 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:44.559 the things I learned in my five years and sitcoms 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:46.960 before I broke broke away and did six ft Under, 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:50.480 and actually one of the reasons I wrote American Beauty, 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:55.640 which was written fueled by a lot of anger, um, 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:58.760 was the world that I lived in in as a 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:03.120 writer in in sitcom world was a world in which 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:06.800 basically the two notes we got from the network, all 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:09.480 the notes we got from the network, could be consolidated 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:15.120 into two thoughts which would make everybody nicer and articulate 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:19.000 the subtext um, both of which are just you know, 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:25.440 the diametrically opposed to good writing. UM. So I had 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:29.760 to unlearn a lot of that when I started working 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:32.480 on six ft Under, and at at the same time, 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:34.120 six ft Under for me was in a lot of 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:38.320 ways it was film school, because you know, I had 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:42.360 only worked in theater or in um four cameras sitcom, 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:46.319 which is kind of like filmed theater. And um, so 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.760 single camera storytelling was new to me, and uh, and 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:53.160 I wanted to direct and I wanted to produce, and 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:55.960 so it was. It was film school and it was 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:59.520 probably the best film school I could have gone to. Well, 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:03.360 and you, uh, you directed the pilot, right, I did? 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:05.079 What was that a hard fight? Or did you just 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:07.280 kind of say I would really like to do this? 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:10.320 I said, I would really like to do this, and 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:13.559 they said okay. Um, And I think I had I 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.520 had just won the Oscar for American Beauty, and I 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:20.720 noticed that all of a sudden, everybody acknowledged what I 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:23.600 had to say, as if it were right, you know, 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.640 as if it were true. Whereas before, whenever I had thoughts, 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:29.760 people would go like yeah, but they would start But 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:33.120 you know, the kind of validation that comes from, you know, 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:35.680 winning an Oscar and also having the movie that you 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:39.480 want it for be a commercial success is people change 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:41.680 and they start acting like you know what you're doing 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:45.560 all right? And I'm not saying that I did, but 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:47.720 I'm I'm just saying that all of a sudden, they 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:51.200 I think, had that not happened that they might not 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:53.839 have been quite so quick to say, yes, we'll let 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:58.280 you direct. And I also heard that through the grapevine 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:00.439 that people were like, oh my god, what are we 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:03.320 gonna do? What if it's what if it's terrible? But 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:05.800 if I'm not mistaken, I think David Chase directed the 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:10.600 pilot of Sopranos, and I was sort of using that 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:16.240 as a as a model. Yeah, that's awesome. Um. On 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.680 the writing, I'm kind of curious because I've written stuff, 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:20.280 and I know a lot of our listeners have dabbled 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:25.520 in screenwriting. Is there a point where the characters it 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:29.400 becomes a little less like what do I want David 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:31.880 to do here? What should David do here? And less 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:34.400 we don't really have a choice. David is a fully 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:37.960 formed human. Now David's gonna do this, and we just 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:41.240 need to facilitate that. Does that make sense? It makes 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:46.960 perfect sense? Um? Yeah, I think Uh. I think a 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:51.640 lot of times characters will let you know what they 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:58.079 want to do, And a lot of times in editing, especially, um, 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:00.760 I find that the show or the movie or whatever, 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:03.800 in editing, it's gonna let you know what it wants 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:06.559 to be, and all of a sudden, you know this 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:10.000 scene that you thought was so important and so great, 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:13.440 you're like, it works better without it, and the movie 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:15.120 is letting me know that this is what it needs 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:18.760 to be. And I think that's true for characters. When 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:24.560 you have characters that are very specific and and very 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:29.320 specifically complicated psychologically and emotionally, you can't just pitch and 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:33.000 go like, oh, David's gonna run for city council. You 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:38.480 know he would never do that, David. So, yeah, I 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:40.760 agree with you. Sometimes you just sort of I feel 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:44.000 like sometimes my job, especially once once you get a show, 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:45.920 once you get the pilot done and the show is 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:48.840 up and running, is to just figure out what it 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:52.320 wants to be and get out of its way. And 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.079 how soon does that happen? Well, in this case, how 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:58.920 soon did these characters kind of take on their own path. 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:03.200 It's interesting in in both uh, six ft Under and 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:07.400 True Blood it happened on the fifth episode. Wow. Um. 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:10.600 The fifth episode of six ft Under was when Nate 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:15.280 met Billy, and I believe it was also the um 0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:19.280 the porn star died got an axtrocuted in her bathtub, 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:23.240 and there was the porn star funeral. Yeah um, and 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.480 that that was the episode where the show sort of 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:30.960 went this is what I am and um and I said, Okay, 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:34.840 well we will honor that. That's really cool. Uh So 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:38.840 this show for me personally marked a really big sort 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:42.600 of turning point because when it premiered in during its 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:45.199 first run was when when I first met who uh 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:48.640 is now my wife in Los Angeles. We lived over 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:52.319 an Eagle Rock, and then through the show moved back 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:57.240 to Atlanta to my original hometown together, and that's where 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.200 the when the show kind of ended, and we ended 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:02.720 up by haying a house kind of kitty corner from 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:06.560 this family run funeral home with a big, giant, beautiful home. 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:09.880 And I remember at the time we literally said, like 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:12.640 this is meant to be. We're living across from the fissure. 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:16.560 It's like this has got to happen. So it's been 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:18.560 really My wife has seen it now three times all 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:20.200 the way through. It's her favorite show of all time, 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:24.000 and we just finished my second run her third. And 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:27.320 it's really interesting to watch it at age thirty and 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:33.440 then at age fifty. Uh really almost social experiment, interesting 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:37.960 to see which characters I identified more with and how 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:41.520 much more into Ruth I was this time around, and 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:44.160 how much I would kind of laughed at Claire stuff 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:47.200 a little bit, like oh that sweet kid, and how 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:51.760 Billy more compassion for Billy, Like all of these like 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:55.520 different endorphins are firing twenty years on in my life, 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:57.000 and so I think this is one of those shows 0:14:57.000 --> 0:14:59.560 that did that for a lot of people, because everyone 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.040 identify I had so much with these characters, and I'm 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.520 trying to find a question in the air. I'm curious, 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:08.800 maybe what you think twenty years on when you reflect 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:16.640 on these people. Um. I hate to say this, but 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:20.960 I don't really reflect on them that much because I 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:25.600 feel like, Okay, that's done, that ended, And I haven't 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:30.960 watched the show since it Um, since it ended. Uh, 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:33.120 maybe I should, but that sort of feels like something 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:38.200 I'll do when I'm in the old age. I'm just 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:41.160 I'm just trying to figure out the industry and where 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:42.960 it is right now and how to get something on 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:46.960 the air because it's super baffling. It's so different, Like 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:49.120 I don't I don't know that that six under would 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:57.840 get made now without some recognizable star attack. Um again, 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:00.200 I don't know that American Beauty would get made now. 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:03.960 It seems like everything, the decisions on what gets made, 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:07.320 is all based on algorithms, and I just have a 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:10.920 I have a hard time understanding how that works. One 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:15.560 of the great things about those for those six ft 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:19.520 Under in my experience with HBO in general, with both 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:23.280 six ft Under and True Blood, was that there there 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:27.600 wasn't a you know, layer after layer after layer of 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:30.080 people who had to give their input and had to 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:33.120 approve things. There was just one person, one or two people, 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:37.000 and they would basically say, here's what we think. And 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:40.400 most of the times, most of the time the notes 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:44.680 were super helpful, and there weren't that many of them. Um, 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:49.000 you know, But in my experience since then has been 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:53.800 very very different. Yeah, and and quite confusing. And maybe 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:56.400 I'm just too old to exist in this new environment. 0:16:56.480 --> 0:17:03.520 But it's really range. Yeah. Um, I'd love to talk 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:06.480 about casting a little bit. I mean, it's um, it's 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:09.240 one of those shows where you certainly can't picture. I mean, 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:12.040 it feels like this family was a fully formed family 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:16.800 and these siblings were siblings. And I've heard Peter krows 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:19.240 To talk about this before that that when you when 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:22.280 they even looked at the show, they felt like these 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:25.200 are the three kids that Ruth and Nathaniel would have had. 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.199 H And I'm just curious about the casting process, like 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:32.639 how easy or difficult that was in in cert with 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:40.480 certain characters. Um it was. I mean, I would say 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:43.680 it was. It wasn't terribly difficult, although we we had 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:47.960 a real hard time finding Brenda and Nate. M It 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:53.040 took a long time to to cast those two roles. 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:58.439 And basically I remember, really the only person that I 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:02.600 went Okay, that's um, that I don't need to see 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:07.480 anybody else was Franny Francis Conroy because when she came 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.480 in she I mean, it was just like, Okay, that's her. 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:15.359 What's yea, we can stop looking. A lot of women 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:19.640 came in and they had um had had weird plastic surgery, 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:22.120 and they looked, you know, surprised. They had that surprised 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.600 look on their face. And I was like, no, Ruth 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:30.560 would not have an eye job. She um Matthew st 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:34.600 Patrick there were two African American men in America who 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:37.560 would read for that role at the time. At the time, 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:41.439 there was still a stigma about playing a gay character 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:44.120 if if the actor was not gay in real life, 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:48.720 And um, I think there was especially a stigma about 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:52.280 playing a gay character in a relationship with a white man. 0:18:53.440 --> 0:19:00.520 So literally there were only two guys who read for Keith. Really, um, 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.400 we had a lot of people uh come in and 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:08.600 read for I mean, I remember back then. What we 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:11.440 did is is we would take the top three contenders 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:14.040 to HBO and we we would go into the HBO 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:19.919 um uh auditorium and and they would and and and 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:22.440 the top press at HBO would be there and the 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:29.439 actors would read and I remember, Um Lauren read for 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:35.960 Claire and um and afterwards there was some concern that 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:38.479 she did that. It was the scene where she was 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.400 on crystal meth and she finds out that her father's dad, 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:46.760 and there was some concern that that she didn't that 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:49.639 it didn't feel authentic. And I remember thinking, this girl's 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:51.320 the girl. So I had to go out and talk 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:53.159 to her in the hallway and I was like, you 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:55.399 have to be just play the crystal meth thing a 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:57.160 little bit more. And she's like, I don't know how 0:19:57.200 --> 0:19:59.119 to do that. I've never done crystal meth and I 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:02.080 never will. What is it? What I said? And I 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:05.040 had never done crystal meth either, So I was like, well, 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:08.359 it's just like to be really jittery and and you know, 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:12.280 I didn't even hope that was the real thing, but 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:14.919 I think that's what, you know, they were looking for. Um. 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:19.159 Peter Kraus originally was one of the finalists for David 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:24.560 um um. But and then there was a guy we 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:26.400 brought into play Nate, and we thought we had found 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:29.000 the perfect Nate, but he just choked. He choked at 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:36.120 the callback and um. So then we got Rachel Griffiths 0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:40.120 had read the script and she flew herself to America 0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:45.320 to read for Brenda. And so I had worked with 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:50.080 Peter on Sibyl, the sitcom Sybil, and I said, will 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:52.720 you come and read with her for this? And eventually 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:55.000 that became his callback for Nate. And once the two 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:58.960 of them were together, it was like, yeah, that's that's it. Yeah, 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:02.240 I mean so key. There was an attempt to get 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:05.600 a really big movie star to play Nathaniel, which I 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:09.520 sort of fought against because I thought, no, because if 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:12.159 it's a big movie star, you know, what do you 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:15.760 you're gonna see like a big movie star And yeah, 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:20.040 and that risks it being stunty too, probably given the role. 0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:23.600 But I was given pretty much pretty much everybody I 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:28.640 UM I wanted to cast. UM I cast, and even 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:30.680 though there was there was some concern in the room. 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:35.120 There was some division in the room about um who 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:37.919 should play David. There was another actor who was quite good, 0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:41.520 but I just felt like it should be Michael. The 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:45.080 people at HBO felt like it should be the other guy. 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:48.600 But what really surprised me was they said, but we're 0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:50.880 going to trust you. You get to make this decision. 0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:54.600 And that's just had I had never had that kind 0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:58.560 of experience before. I had had an experience when I 0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:01.679 was casting, Oh grow up, when there was you know, 0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:05.600 UM the top brass at ABC had a question about 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:07.120 an action and I said, well, here's why I think 0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:11.080 she's great. And the look that came over the guy's 0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:13.919 face was like, what do you You're not questioning me? 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:18.560 Are you really really? And I was just like, oh, okay, 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:22.000 well I guess, I guess I'm I should just keep 0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:24.960 my mouth shut. And did you start having those conversations 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:27.960 holding your oscar after American Beet? I I did not 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:30.520 have the I did not have the oscar at that time, 0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:32.840 so I bring it in before then said it on 0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:44.960 the table. I thought it might be fun. I've never 0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:46.560 done this before, but I thought it'd be fun if 0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:49.600 maybe I gave you the actor's name, and if you 0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:53.520 could give me, like just the first five or six 0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:57.800 words that come to your mind. Okay for that, Yeah, 0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:06.520 all right, let's let's go ahead and start with Peter Krausa. Um. Okay, Oh, 0:23:06.560 --> 0:23:09.160 this is tougher than I thought it was gonna be. 0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:18.000 UM confident, uh, repressed. I'm sorry, this is Nate. This 0:23:18.040 --> 0:23:21.440 is not necessarily Peter Kraus, the man. I'm we're talking 0:23:21.440 --> 0:23:24.359 about the character, right, I mean, up to you. I 0:23:24.400 --> 0:23:26.640 was thinking more of, you know, kind of Peter Kraus 0:23:26.840 --> 0:23:30.920 and how he became Nate. But okay, well, then let's 0:23:30.920 --> 0:23:39.560 do Peter Kraus. Confident, funny, really funny, UM, committed, um, disciplined, 0:23:40.359 --> 0:24:01.960 UM wounded okay, Michael C. Hall complex, um big heart again, wounded, UM, brave, mhm. Fearless. 0:24:04.040 --> 0:24:06.760 I think that's another word you might use to describe 0:24:06.880 --> 0:24:09.800 Francis Conroy, because I've heard you say that before. So 0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:26.680 Francis Conroy fearless, UM, dear kind, um, ego less, ego less. 0:24:26.680 --> 0:24:28.520 I think I've heard you talk about in some interviews 0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:33.119 that she was just really ready to do whatever it took. Well. 0:24:33.320 --> 0:24:38.199 Sometimes sometimes actors will look at the material they've been 0:24:38.240 --> 0:24:39.800 given the play and they'll go like, well, but I 0:24:39.840 --> 0:24:43.960 would never do that, at which point I'm always want 0:24:44.000 --> 0:24:47.240 to say like, yeah, but the character is not you, 0:24:47.240 --> 0:24:53.239 you know. Um. But the thing about Franny. I you 0:24:53.280 --> 0:25:00.200 could say like Ruth, um, Ruth eats a puppy, and 0:25:00.280 --> 0:25:02.040 she wouldn't come to you and go like, what are 0:25:02.040 --> 0:25:03.800 you what are you talking about? Are you crazy? Ruth 0:25:03.840 --> 0:25:07.200 eats a puppy. She'd be like, Okay, I've never eaten 0:25:07.240 --> 0:25:12.760 a puppy, so I guess I have some questions. That's great, 0:25:12.800 --> 0:25:15.800 that must be great. Oh, it's so great. It's so great. 0:25:15.840 --> 0:25:18.280 I remember the scene in the from the Pilot where 0:25:18.320 --> 0:25:24.040 she's crying at Nathaniel's a grave and um and she 0:25:24.280 --> 0:25:26.280 like you know, snot was coming out of her nose 0:25:26.280 --> 0:25:30.600 and it was so so visceral and messy and and um, 0:25:30.640 --> 0:25:32.600 and I said cut. But I needed to get it 0:25:32.600 --> 0:25:35.800 from a different angle, So I said, Franty, can I 0:25:35.840 --> 0:25:38.480 are you up for doing that again? And she was like, 0:25:38.520 --> 0:25:42.520