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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Man, Welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with you.

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Speaker 2: Ross Rosenberg with us. A global thought leader, renowned expert

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Speaker 2: and codependency, narcissism, narcissistic abuse, trauma treatment. He is the

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Speaker 2: Self Love Recovery Institute CEO and owner and primary contributor.

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Speaker 2: In addition, Ross is renowned for his expert psychotherapy, public

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Speaker 2: speaking and education, and also expert witness work. His pioneering

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Speaker 2: contributions to the mental health field include sweeping theoretical and

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Speaker 2: practical updates on codependency, which he is renamed Self Love

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Speaker 2: Deficient Disorder. Ross Welcome back. I can't believe it's been

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Speaker 2: almost six years.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, six years. It was so great to be invited again.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, George.

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Speaker 2: How have you been.

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Speaker 3: I've been actually really good. I've been working on another

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Speaker 3: book and it's almost finished and four years into making,

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Speaker 3: and so that's citing and and work is good. I'm

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Speaker 3: happy about that is.

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Speaker 2: Going to be part of the Human Magnet Syndrome.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Actually it's an expansion. It basically rewrites everything everyone

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Speaker 3: knows about codependency and narcissism is just it's just wrong

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Speaker 3: the whole field. The code pency got it wrong in

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Speaker 3: the seventies. So basically it's my focused attempt to finally rewrite,

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Speaker 3: re explain what codependency is and why these codependents always

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Speaker 3: fall in love blindly with narcissists, pathological narcissists who are dangerous,

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Speaker 3: manipulative and only can see it, only can see what

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Speaker 3: they need and ignore what others.

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Speaker 2: Russ I call these narcissists monsters. Is that an accurate

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Speaker 2: portrayal of them?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? See, you know there's the problem that I have

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Speaker 3: is there's there's a proliferation of self proclaimed experts everywhere

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Speaker 3: on narcissism, and so there's so many definitions rolling around.

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Speaker 3: So if you talk to Mental Health Commission, there's a

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Speaker 3: mental health disorder called narcissistic personal disorder, and that's that

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Speaker 3: really messed up disorder because you don't these narcissists, they

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Speaker 3: don't know they have a problem, they can't see it,

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Speaker 3: they don't go to therapy, and they blame everyone else.

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Speaker 3: But there are different forms of it. So the ones

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Speaker 3: that have sociopathy are sociopathic narcissists. So it's a combination

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Speaker 3: of narcissistic personal disorder and another disorder long form is

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Speaker 3: antisocial personality disorder or sociopaths. The sociopathic narcissists are the

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Speaker 3: monsters because they don't have empathy, they do not have remorse.

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Speaker 3: They think ahead of time what they want to do

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Speaker 3: and how they're going to do it. They plan it.

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Speaker 3: Where you got these garden variety, you know, narcissists who

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Speaker 3: just are grandiose. They just think they're better than everyone else,

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Speaker 3: and they jump in front of conversation. They think the

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Speaker 3: world is looking at them. But these monsters, sociopath narcissists,

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Speaker 3: they live in the shadows. They and they know how

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Speaker 3: to white people. They look for their victims and they

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Speaker 3: strategically weaken them in order to get and get the

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Speaker 3: control over them. And that's why we call them monsters.

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Speaker 2: They're very good at what they do, aren't they.

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Speaker 3: Well, they're good because they were born that way. These

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Speaker 3: monster narcissists were I'm going to call sociopaths. They were

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Speaker 3: born that way. They were born in a world where

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Speaker 3: they were crushed and destroyed early, and so they came

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Speaker 3: up as a little child knowing only that the only

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Speaker 3: thing that's ever going to give them pleasure is what

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Speaker 3: they take. It's a doggy dog world, the flyer in

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Speaker 3: the windshield. So by the time they become adults, they

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Speaker 3: are thinking only about what can I do, how can

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Speaker 3: I get it at all costs? And so they find

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Speaker 3: what I call normal or healthy individuals or codependants, and

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Speaker 3: they find their weaknesses, they find the cracks, the fissures,

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Speaker 3: they find their vulnerabilities, and they and they spring forward

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Speaker 3: and they exploit. It's like parasites. They take from these

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Speaker 3: code pendants or they're victims, everything that they have just

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Speaker 3: for themselves, and they give very little in return and

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Speaker 3: often can destroy their lives.

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Speaker 2: What or who created them when they were small parents.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so all of us, and I don't want to

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Speaker 3: go into I'm not invited to talk about attachment theory,

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Speaker 3: but all of us, our personalities are are developed by

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Speaker 3: how we were raised. So if we were raised by normal,

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Speaker 3: average parents with normal average problems, we're going to get

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Speaker 3: a lot of love and nurturing and we're going to

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Speaker 3: grow up and we're going to bring that into our

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Speaker 3: adult life and we're going to know about it, and

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Speaker 3: we're going to choose partners that give it to us.

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Speaker 3: But if we came from parents that were abusive, crushing,

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Speaker 3: you know, crushingly abusive and mean and nasty, that creates

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Speaker 3: a shutdown on a complete crushing of personality development. And

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Speaker 3: and that's child moves forward into adulthood with no development

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Speaker 3: of morals, no development of ethics, concern regard that. They

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Speaker 3: take that world in which they felt crushed, they want

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Speaker 3: to crush it back, they want to steal from it,

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Speaker 3: they want to destroy it. And those are the people

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Speaker 3: that know exactly what they have to do in order

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Speaker 3: to get it, because that's what they had to do

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Speaker 3: when they were children. And I don't say this to

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Speaker 3: bring any sympathy for them. Is I tell a lot

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Speaker 3: of people, if we had sympathy for all the sociopaths

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Speaker 3: in the world, our prisons would have no one. I mean,

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Speaker 3: but that's where it comes from. And they take the

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Speaker 3: frame of reference and they use it, abuse it, and

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Speaker 3: they literally crush people. That's why my favorite term is

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Speaker 3: to explain, these sociopathic narcissists are parasites. They live on

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Speaker 3: the life force of the victim and they will take

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Speaker 3: it and take it and take it until there's nothing

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Speaker 3: lefts Yeah, like vampires. I mean, actually I use it.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm a psychotherapist and in therapy I use

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Speaker 3: I use the word vampire or emotional vampires is a metaphor.

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Speaker 3: You know, vampires sucks blood. Blood is life force. Well,

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Speaker 3: these sociopathic narcissist, these monsters, they suck the emotional, financial

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Speaker 3: life force, energetic sexual life force of the individual and

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Speaker 3: leave them empty, empty as a shell, and have no

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Speaker 3: empathy because they think they deserve it and they believe

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Speaker 3: they're victims needed it because they blame them for everything.

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Speaker 2: Do they then move on to another victim.

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Speaker 3: It all depends, you know, it's it's a it's a

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Speaker 3: general term, these pathological narcissists with sociopathic So they're either

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Speaker 3: sociopathic sociopathic traits. It depends who they are. If they're

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Speaker 3: the insecure type who live in the shadows, who don't

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Speaker 3: want people to know, you know, these are not the

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Speaker 3: ones you see in the news or not, you know,

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Speaker 3: big in business or not entertainment. They don't want anyone

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Speaker 3: to see them, so they have they live in a

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Speaker 3: in a costume, they live by a mask. These are

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Speaker 3: the ones that in their office they have these beautiful

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Speaker 3: family portraits they talk about vacations. They present this fake facade,

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Speaker 3: this this.

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Speaker 2: Metaphorical and we should point out that not everybody who

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Speaker 2: has family portraits is a narcissist, right.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, oh no, no, no, no, good point. What

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Speaker 3: I'm talking about is we're talking about these type of

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Speaker 3: narcissists on the outside pretend to be normal, but on

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Speaker 3: the end, because that's how they survived, because they remember,

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Speaker 3: these sociopathic monster narcissists, they know who they are. They're

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Speaker 3: not like the other writing narcissists who are oblivious, and

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Speaker 3: so they have to fit in and not be known.

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Speaker 3: So back at home they destroy everyone, but outside they

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Speaker 3: pretend to be something that some are likable, some are respected.

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Speaker 3: So to your question, do they move on the ones

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Speaker 3: that are insecure? They need the family, They need the

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Speaker 3: wife or the husband in order to exist. That the

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Speaker 3: vampire is not going to get rid of his zombie

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Speaker 3: victims who give him blood. He needs them in order

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Speaker 3: to he wants to keep them close. So most of

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Speaker 3: these sociopathic narcissists, these monsters, they don't move on, but

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Speaker 3: every so often they're victims will find a psychotherapist like me,

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Speaker 3: whether it's through my YouTube channel or my self Love

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Speaker 3: Recovery dot com website. They will realize there's a way out,

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Speaker 3: and that becomes problem number one.

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Speaker 2: When does the narcissist ross show his or her true colors.

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Speaker 3: They show their true colors when it is safe, so

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Speaker 3: when there's no chance or little chants of consequences. So remember,

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Speaker 3: these are sociopaths. They know what they're doing. They're not

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Speaker 3: just the grandiose you know.

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Speaker 2: Personality, yeah yeah, yeah, nothing.

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Speaker 3: But so they know what they're doing. And so if

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Speaker 3: things get hot, if let's say someone is noticing them,

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Speaker 3: they have to crush that person. They have to crush

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Speaker 3: it directly through aggression, but more often than not passive, aggressively,

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Speaker 3: behind the scenes, covertly. These are the ones that will

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Speaker 3: do anything to destroy the reputation, that the impact of

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Speaker 3: someone that's trying to out them. It's almost as if

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Speaker 3: they're going to steal their oxygen, their whole life, for

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Speaker 3: their whole power is being secret if you if you

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Speaker 3: out them, I have a video and I'm not a

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Speaker 3: rock star in no way, but I have a video

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Speaker 3: it says, don't take the mask off. The covert narcissists run.

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Speaker 3: It's a few of four million times I still have

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Speaker 3: to pinch myself. I can't. But the reason that video

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Speaker 3: has been viewed so many times, it basically says, don't

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Speaker 3: mess with these people because they have so much to lose.

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Speaker 3: If you try to expose them, you need to escape

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Speaker 3: without trying to expose them, because they will do anything

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Speaker 3: to crush the victim. Who's going to show the world

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Speaker 3: they're a monster.

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Speaker 2: Is Vladimir Putin one of these.

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Speaker 3: Well, I haven't personally met him nor diagnosed them, but

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Speaker 3: I sincerely believe from all the information and then I

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Speaker 3: read the papers that he is a sociopath and he

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Speaker 3: shows actual cold indifference, no regard for humanity. He lies,

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Speaker 3: everything's about himself. Anyone who challenges them or who tries

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Speaker 3: to take his masks off, talk about don't taste them,

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Speaker 3: don't take the mask off, just run. Well, he kills them.

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Speaker 3: And he is probably the easiest person for me to

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Speaker 3: diagnose as a sociopath based upon everything we know. Because

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Speaker 3: if you don't have any any moral fiber, you don't

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Speaker 3: have any empathy, any regard for human life and feelings,

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Speaker 3: you can do almost anything. And if you're in power,

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Speaker 3: forget about it.

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Speaker 2: What do they want? What is their ending power.

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Speaker 3: Power. They okay, So if you go back to the

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Speaker 3: childhood explanation, you know where they were raised, they were raised,

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Speaker 3: they were crushed as children, they were almost destroyed. So

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Speaker 3: in their point of view, their only way to feel

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Speaker 3: safe in the world is by power, by money, by land,

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Speaker 3: by politics. So someone like Putin, he establishes power almost globally.

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Speaker 3: But someone like to next door neighbor power by you know, blackmail,

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Speaker 3: by gas lighting, by threats, by unreasonable mental manipulation. But

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Speaker 3: it is power to protect them from They don't want

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Speaker 3: to give up anything that they have taken or stolen.

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Speaker 2: They must have a charm about them Russia in order

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Speaker 2: to pull in and capture some who cares about them absolutely.

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Speaker 3: And this is where politics and these narcissistic monsters come

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Speaker 3: into play. You have to rise to the to the

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Speaker 3: level of where you are seen as likable, respectable, lovable.

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Speaker 3: You have to create an outside persona. It's like an actor,

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Speaker 3: it's like wearing a costume. You can't be a total jerk.

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Speaker 3: You got to watch my words here and.

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Speaker 2: Be careful.

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Speaker 3: You can't be a total jerk and hope the rise

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Speaker 3: of positions of power. Hope to get the beautiful woman

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Speaker 3: or the beautiful man that you want, hope to get

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Speaker 3: hired in a prestigious law firm. You have to mold yourself.

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Speaker 3: You have to shape yourself into what you know people like.

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Speaker 3: And these monster sociopath narcissists, they know what people want

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Speaker 3: and like. That is their skill set. They can read

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Speaker 3: their subjects and they know what that person wants to see,

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Speaker 3: so they can shape themselves and for sometimes in an

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Speaker 3: indefinite period of time, and be that fake person so

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Speaker 3: they can get the power. And once they solidify their power,

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Speaker 3: once they weaken their opponents, once they shut them down,

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Speaker 3: they gas like them to sabotage them, then their true

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Speaker 3: self comes out and they don't worry because they created

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Speaker 3: a circle around them to defend their power and the

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Speaker 3: weakened opponents.

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Speaker 2: What's the difference between someone who is trying to better

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Speaker 2: themselves in a good way. They're intuitive, you know, they

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Speaker 2: read people well and everything else. Traits of a narcissist

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Speaker 2: who have these abilities, not the mean stuff, but the abilities,

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Speaker 2: but the abilities to read people and know what to

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Speaker 2: say and stuff like that. What's the difference between the

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Speaker 2: good guy in the band.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's let's look at empathy. First of all, you

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Speaker 3: could have empathy because you're a good guy. You love

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Speaker 3: someone is whether it's your child, your neighbor. You're just

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Speaker 3: a healthy, normal human that has empathy.

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Speaker 2: You cry when people fall and get hurt, your stuff empathy.

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Speaker 3: That half of the sociopathic nurciss doesn't have empathy, so

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Speaker 3: they have to pretend.

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Speaker 2: Do they wish they had empathy or they don't care.

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Speaker 3: Not really, they don't care because they don't really have

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Speaker 3: that center core that feels like they lost anything. Now

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Speaker 3: that would be the guard writing narcisses. But to the

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Speaker 3: intuitive part, intuition is independent of good mental health or

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Speaker 3: bad mental health. So you can be a criminal sociopath

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Speaker 3: and have good intuition and know how no when to

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Speaker 3: and I say this rhetorically because it's a horrible crime

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Speaker 3: to rape someone or drob a bank. Know, just have

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Speaker 3: this intuitive feeling of or you can be this wonderfully healthy,

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Speaker 3: wonderful person have good intuition and know when to take

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Speaker 3: care of someone or when to talk. So intuition is

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Speaker 3: it should not be aligned with personality types. It's an

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Speaker 3: independent thing. So the celciopath uses this intuition for evil

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Speaker 3: and bad They try to figure people out. They go

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Speaker 3: by experience. They use this feeling and this, and these

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Speaker 3: narcissist monsters who have good intuition and who are intelligent

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Speaker 3: are the most dangerous and evil of all of them.

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Speaker 2: Are they what we would consider to be successful people?

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Speaker 3: Smarter they are, the more calculated, they are, the more successful.

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Speaker 3: And that's the difference between the garden and This happens

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Speaker 3: a lot of politics. I'm not going to mention names,

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Speaker 3: but people in politics who are narcissistic, they're more grandiose

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Speaker 3: than sociopathic. They it's like they get drunk on the

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Speaker 3: power and and the You can think of all the

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Speaker 3: ones that that. Okay, I'm not gonna mention names, but

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Speaker 3: did they get drunk?

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Speaker 2: I know you want to.

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Speaker 3: I was I was thinking of one. I was thinking

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Speaker 3: of one guy, George Santos. He's been disgraced. I don't

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Speaker 3: think he has any fans. I don't think I'm going

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Speaker 3: to send anyone he's He was the guy that basically

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Speaker 3: everyone kicked out, both the right and the left. But

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Speaker 3: he completely lied about everything everything. There was nothing that

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Speaker 3: was the truth. He found what people needed to hear.

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Speaker 3: If he was talking in front of Jewish people. He

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Speaker 3: told them that his parents were concentration camps. And and

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Speaker 3: your listeners know about him, it's because he knew what

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Speaker 3: people wanted in order to get their money. And but

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Speaker 3: the difference between the successful ones and I used successful

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Speaker 3: loosely because the sex successful can be dangerous and harmful, sure,

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Speaker 3: but the ones that don't get caught, I'll call that

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Speaker 3: successful lies and intelligence. Bernie Madoff was a sociopathic grates.

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Speaker 3: He was a.

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Speaker 2: Monster, a great salesman, a great salesman.

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Speaker 3: But his intellect was beyond brilliant. And so that was

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Speaker 3: his best way to keep from getting caught. Is he

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Speaker 3: could calculate how close he was getting caught in what

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Speaker 3: to do.

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Speaker 2: But it all caves in eventually, doesn't.

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Speaker 3: It Absolutely, because that's what happens to most of these

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Speaker 3: these vampire sociopathic narcissists. They believe they are over, that

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Speaker 3: they are bigger and more important and above the law.

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Speaker 3: But that's where the delusion comes in. They're not and

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Speaker 3: they can't see that people will eventually catch them. It's

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Speaker 3: just a matter of time.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

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Speaker 1: one am Easter and go to Coast to Coasta m

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