Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,
Speaker 1: and today we're discussing pursuing happiness in all the wrong ways. Yeah, Joel,
Speaker 1: you know, it's not that there are folks out there
Speaker 1: who aren't pursuing happiness. They're doing it the way that
Speaker 1: they think that they should. They're just looking in all
Speaker 1: the wrong places. And when some people are going about
Speaker 1: it in all the wrong ways, pursuing like actual like
Speaker 1: their goal, how can I be happier? Which is typically
Speaker 1: the wrong question to ask if you want to be happy.
Speaker 1: That is true, I mean, although I mean that is
Speaker 1: exactly what we're talking about. But we're gonna talk about
Speaker 1: happiness in a more lasting and in a more fulfilling
Speaker 1: kind of way. That's what we're going to be talking
Speaker 1: about today. And also we are going to talk about money,
Speaker 1: because money certainly plays an important role when it comes
Speaker 1: to our pursuit of happiness. But okay, so real quick
Speaker 1: before we get into a jewel. So the neighborhood that
Speaker 1: we moved to, it's great, you know, we like it there.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of kids running around, which is
Speaker 1: also a great thing. It's a lot of fun to
Speaker 1: see the kids you know, running around playing. This also
Speaker 1: means that there are a lot of kids selling stuff.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of entrepreneurial kids in your hood, like
Speaker 1: literally going door to door and being like, hey, would
Speaker 1: you like to buy some of whatever that they made
Speaker 1: some bracelets, uh, as well as different stands that are
Speaker 1: set up along the street, that kind of thing. And
Speaker 1: there were some neighborhood kids and they had set up
Speaker 1: like a holiday treats table or stands. Sounds nice, sounds festive, right, Uh,
Speaker 1: they're selling hot chocolate for three dollars a cup, along
Speaker 1: with like candy canes and stuff like what is the Starbucks?
Speaker 1: I'm all for entrepreneurship here, but that's how three dollars
Speaker 1: a cup. It's a lot of money. Kind of blew
Speaker 1: me away. And Kate, that's not really love the kids
Speaker 1: to participate, Yes, and we do, or I'll say that
Speaker 1: Kate does because she went ahead and purchase a single cup.
Speaker 1: You were over there, arms crossed, well and she frowned,
Speaker 1: which I was. You know, they had the hot chocolate
Speaker 1: when I came up from work and they were explaining
Speaker 1: They're like, oh yeah, we got this, and I was like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, how much? Really? Charged, and she told me
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe it, and so like what I told her,
Speaker 1: I was like, why didn't you negotiate? Because I felt
Speaker 1: like this was a perfect opportunity to teach him another lesson. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, just to talk about it a little bit
Speaker 1: and not just be like okay, whatever you say, but
Speaker 1: literally to push back a little bit, and you don't
Speaker 1: have to be a jerk about it, right, Like you
Speaker 1: can be like, oh man, three dollars, that's a really
Speaker 1: expensive a couple of hot chocolate. How about I'd like
Speaker 1: to retire Sunday kids about three cups for five dollars, right,
Speaker 1: or or even just been like okay, what about how
Speaker 1: about one dollar? Just just to start the conversation. I
Speaker 1: think there's a way that you can have that conversation.
Speaker 1: But Kate kind of like rolled her eyes at me
Speaker 1: and just like, of course this is what you would say.
Speaker 1: But do I mean, what would you have done in
Speaker 1: that situation? Do you feel like that that's frugal or
Speaker 1: is that a cheap move to negotiate? What's from patented
Speaker 1: reaction to you? Now, by the way, it's just eyes roll,
Speaker 1: which I get eye roll, But yeah, what's your tike, though,
Speaker 1: I think it's okay to be like, hey, guys, what
Speaker 1: if we did yeah, yeah, three for six bucks or
Speaker 1: something like that, Like, well, we're gonna go for volume here.
Speaker 1: You guys want to be the costco of hot chocolate.
Speaker 1: That's how that's how you gotta roll. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean you probably they're there. It depends on how much
Speaker 1: hard work they put into it and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: And if there's like a peppermint stick coming out of
Speaker 1: it and all that jazz, it's like it's I would
Speaker 1: just pay them money if you're interested, or keep walking
Speaker 1: if you're not. Maybe I wasn't there to experience all
Speaker 1: the decor that they poured, Like yeah, maybe I just
Speaker 1: pictured a table with like some hot chocolate that's not
Speaker 1: so hot. But it just to me seemed like a lesson,
Speaker 1: like not only for like those kids to learn how
Speaker 1: to talk to an adult about the price of something,
Speaker 1: but even for our kids, right like for them to
Speaker 1: to witness a little bit of negotiation, for them to
Speaker 1: understand the value of a dollar. I felt that was
Speaker 1: a massive opportunity for them just to learn firsthand, like
Speaker 1: a real life interaction. Um And so I don't know,
Speaker 1: I think there's a way to do it, as long
Speaker 1: as you're not a jerk about it, right, Like I'm
Speaker 1: not talking about being all my you know, scrooge like
Speaker 1: and being like are you kidding and like over training
Speaker 1: to take workhouses. Yeah. I think I want to incentivize
Speaker 1: young entrepreneurship too, And I think if it gets kids excited,
Speaker 1: I'm willing to fork over extra money, even if it
Speaker 1: feels like it's overcharging, because man, what a good experience.
Speaker 1: The negotiation can be a good experience too, if you're
Speaker 1: doing it in a lighthearted and friendly way. But that
Speaker 1: was my take. Yeah, But I also think that paying
Speaker 1: and paying the money buying the hot chocolate, by supporting
Speaker 1: these kids in their little entrepreneurs want to encourage them
Speaker 1: for sure, Yeah, is good, And you don't want to
Speaker 1: deflate them by being like, well, guys, did you miss
Speaker 1: the pricing class that was second grade down last month?
Speaker 1: Did you miss the numbers? Yeah? I guess I just
Speaker 1: worry that we're over encouraging these kids because we also
Speaker 1: bought some expence of bracelets last like a few months
Speaker 1: as well, and they I don't know, maybe they keep
Speaker 1: coming back to the West and they keep coming to
Speaker 1: your house for some reason, because you keep buying them.
Speaker 1: Everyone else knows to say no, But it's like written
Speaker 1: across our forehead except for you. All right, well, I
Speaker 1: like it, and if you don't have the money to
Speaker 1: pay for it, then they don't. But either way, encouraging
Speaker 1: kids in these pursuits is a good thing. That should
Speaker 1: be the bigger lesson. And if they're your kids, encourage
Speaker 1: them to do the same and steal all your neighbors
Speaker 1: money and so they can buy their own stuff. It's
Speaker 1: just one giant cycle, what's right, Or at least let
Speaker 1: me get some like exactly? All right, let's mention the
Speaker 1: beer we're having on the episode today. This one is
Speaker 1: called Mile High Salute. It is a Checha sour, which
Speaker 1: I've never heard of this time before. But we will
Speaker 1: give our thoughts on this one at the end of
Speaker 1: the episode. This one is by Mutation, brewing right around
Speaker 1: the corner from us where we live. But Matt, let's
Speaker 1: get onto it. Let's move on to the topic at hand,
Speaker 1: pursuing happiness in all the wrong ways. And of course,
Speaker 1: we hope all of our listeners had a great Christmas.
Speaker 1: This is our second episodes since Christmas so um, we
Speaker 1: we hope it was a good one for every one
Speaker 1: that was super enjoyable. We're still very much in the
Speaker 1: holiday spirit, of course, yes, hopefully you are as well. Well.
Speaker 1: It's it's interesting to me when we were thinking of
Speaker 1: this episode, it made me think of kind of the
Speaker 1: joy that our kids have on their faces Christmas morning
Speaker 1: when they run down faces copious presence under the tree,
Speaker 1: and it was like a joy like they were beating
Speaker 1: right and so thrilled to get to open these presents,
Speaker 1: to get to tear them to shreds and see what
Speaker 1: was inside. But uh, that joy that they have at
Speaker 1: seven am, right when they're so thrilled to open up
Speaker 1: everything under the tree, it doesn't look the same later
Speaker 1: in the day, right, Uh. And I think that's a
Speaker 1: story that's the same thing for adults and kids alike.
Speaker 1: There's frequently like a post present let down that almost
Speaker 1: all of us experience. You kind of come down from
Speaker 1: that high for sure. Either there was something that we
Speaker 1: wanted that we didn't get, or the gifts that we
Speaker 1: did receive they're not quite as good as they looked
Speaker 1: in TV, or there there's some assembly required and wait
Speaker 1: a second, we forgot the battery, the batteries of the package. Exactly. Okay,
Speaker 1: so very small, quick tangent. Did you ever have a
Speaker 1: present as a kid that you did not receive that
Speaker 1: you had all your Christmas hopes pinned too? I'm sure
Speaker 1: I did. For me. It was the classic Hungry Hungry Hippos.
Speaker 1: I think we may have talked about this on the
Speaker 1: show Record is the South and the Yeah, I completely,
Speaker 1: I totally have my heart set on that game because
Speaker 1: the commercials were awesome. Those kids mash those levers of
Speaker 1: the hippo gobble up on those marbles. But I don't
Speaker 1: get it. And that's all my parents remember from that
Speaker 1: Christmas was that disappointment. But there's no hungry hungry hippen.
Speaker 1: Well it is. It's a good game, but it's not
Speaker 1: as good as it looks on the commercials now right,
Speaker 1: and disappointment yes, and in that vein right, the anticipation
Speaker 1: of Christmas morning is almost always better than the payoff.
Speaker 1: And and something close to the world's toys are owned
Speaker 1: by three percent of the world's population, which is American children,
Speaker 1: And so are we happier? Are our kids happier? Because
Speaker 1: that's the case because they get this massive amount of
Speaker 1: all the toys are created in the world. No, I
Speaker 1: would say, not necessarily, and in fact, the opposite is
Speaker 1: often true. Right, The same is often the case though
Speaker 1: when it comes to amassing more wealth, there's this there's
Speaker 1: a point of diminishing returns. And today on the show,
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about how happiness levels are affected
Speaker 1: by your financial standing and how they aren't Deep dive
Speaker 1: on happiness today on HTM. That's right, yeah, and of
Speaker 1: course everyone probably are already knows this, but all the
Speaker 1: money in the world is not going to make you happy.
Speaker 1: Just like getting every single present on your list, how
Speaker 1: that likely only brought you a fleeting sense of joy
Speaker 1: doesn't last all that long. Uh. And so ultimately, like,
Speaker 1: what it's going to take is some introspection, is going
Speaker 1: to take some self examination to fully understand what it
Speaker 1: is that will bring you fulfillment and happiness, not just
Speaker 1: more money. Uh. And it might be honestly, it might
Speaker 1: be a touch ironic coming from the guy as you
Speaker 1: talk about money three times a week, right, Like earning,
Speaker 1: earning money, saving investing money, these are all great things,
Speaker 1: but it's also crucial to put money in its proper place.
Speaker 1: And on the service. This is probably something that you
Speaker 1: already know, right, But do you have a deeper understanding
Speaker 1: of it? Uh? You might have the head knowledge, but
Speaker 1: do you have the richer understanding that comes from experiencing
Speaker 1: it and living it out. Because I think while many
Speaker 1: of us would say, yeah, like, I totally agree with
Speaker 1: that statement, right, like, more money, it's not gonna make
Speaker 1: me happier, Well, we actually end up living our lives
Speaker 1: in ways that contradict that statement. And the reality is
Speaker 1: that it's often not just the pursuit of money that
Speaker 1: we think will make us happy, but it's the things
Speaker 1: that money can afford us. I just mentioned Scrooge, but
Speaker 1: you know, chances are you probably saw some version of
Speaker 1: the Dickens classic Christmas Carol. There's a lot of good ones,
Speaker 1: bad ones. But I wonder if a lot of folks
Speaker 1: I thought about the I thought about this last time
Speaker 1: I watched it, because like Scrooge was obsessed with money, right,
Speaker 1: just like that the thing in and of itself. And
Speaker 1: I think today oftentimes we are drawn not to money itself,
Speaker 1: but the things that money can afford us. That the
Speaker 1: things that money can can buy us, and we think
Speaker 1: that it almost feels unrelatable to picture somebody who's just
Speaker 1: like stacking wads of buy a lambo with it in
Speaker 1: exactly it's um, but they didn't have those kind of things.
Speaker 1: Wait way back then, you're right, Yeah, it's it's the
Speaker 1: it's the thinking that shopping incessantly. We've just gotten more
Speaker 1: sophisticated with how it is that we are misled, right, Like,
Speaker 1: it's sneaky, it's pernicious. But we're often tricked into thinking
Speaker 1: that there's just a variety of things that will make
Speaker 1: us happy. It's a false hope. And so we're going
Speaker 1: to dive into a lot of some of those different
Speaker 1: things that we think, uh, don't actually bring about happiness,
Speaker 1: and we'll make sure to end the episode talking about
Speaker 1: the right way to pursue happiness as well, and kind
Speaker 1: of how we think about money has a lot to
Speaker 1: do with it. But let's get into let's talk about maybe, um,
Speaker 1: what about like an unexpected windfall mat like how happy
Speaker 1: would it make you? Do you think if you randomly
Speaker 1: had ten tho dollars deposited into your accounts tomorrow? No
Speaker 1: questions asked that you could put towards the lamb, but
Speaker 1: those strings attached that you can put towards a lambar
Speaker 1: or whatever you wanted. Like, do you think that would
Speaker 1: move the needle for you? Yeah? I mean if you
Speaker 1: said you want ten thousand bucks and be like sure,
Speaker 1: you be like what, I'll take it. It's like it's
Speaker 1: like playing a monopoly and it's like bank error in
Speaker 1: your favor collector hundred dollars or something like that, and
Speaker 1: you're like, what amazing? Like to get all about it?
Speaker 1: Just money gifted to you in that way. It would
Speaker 1: put a smile on your face. I think would put
Speaker 1: a smile on mine as well. Well. Uh, the thing is,
Speaker 1: it would, but it wouldn't do it for very long.
Speaker 1: And that's because the TED, the TED organization of Ted
Speaker 1: Talk Fame, ran an experiment based on ten thousand dollar
Speaker 1: donations to folks who lived in low income countries and
Speaker 1: others who lived in high income locations. And what did
Speaker 1: they find, Matt, Well, they found that the folks who
Speaker 1: had lower salaries, the ones in countries like Brazil, Indonesia,
Speaker 1: and Kenya, gained a lot more happiness than folks who
Speaker 1: lived in renter countries. That was, their their happiness was
Speaker 1: even more long lasting. And that's not terribly shocking. Uh.
Speaker 1: If you're on the earlier side of your wealth building journey,
Speaker 1: a ten thousand dollar lumps some could help jump start
Speaker 1: your progress a whole lot helping you, like acts a
Speaker 1: big chunk of student loans that have been hanging out
Speaker 1: in your life, or allowing you to max out a
Speaker 1: roth ira for the first time ever. Maybe that's been
Speaker 1: a goal for years, and it's like, boom, this lump
Speaker 1: some money fell into my lap. Now I can do
Speaker 1: it in one fell swoop. That allows you to, you know,
Speaker 1: get the compounding return started earlier than most folks get to,
Speaker 1: which of course is a big win. But for folks
Speaker 1: are further along in their wealth building journey, it's helpful.
Speaker 1: It's a helpful study to consider because as you move
Speaker 1: up the money gears, it certainly seems like you should
Speaker 1: be putting less and less emphasis on your net worth
Speaker 1: from a happiness standpoint, and so a windfall, yeah it
Speaker 1: might be nice, but even a lump sum of cash
Speaker 1: has diminishing returns rather quickly. Yeah, you know, And it's
Speaker 1: it's not like you want to start making bad money
Speaker 1: decisions on purpose to curb the growth of your money.
Speaker 1: Like it's taking a world one k loan. It'start giving
Speaker 1: it all the way. Let me get hit with that
Speaker 1: tempercent penalty, right, It's more about just rethinking the role
Speaker 1: of money in your life. And a Warton study actually
Speaker 1: from last year that gave some helpful new insights because
Speaker 1: they found that a higher income is linked to increase happiness,
Speaker 1: but largely because of the increased control that you then
Speaker 1: have over everyday decisions in your life. Basically just allows
Speaker 1: for greater autonomy. And so it seems to me that
Speaker 1: more money is a better predictor of maybe emotions than
Speaker 1: of actual happiness because obviously, when you don't have enough money,
Speaker 1: like it's it's hard not to like acutely feel that
Speaker 1: need right if you can't pay the bills um. But like,
Speaker 1: basically money it helps solve quite a few problems for
Speaker 1: folks in that lower income space, at least until a
Speaker 1: certain point. Traditionally that's that seventy five dollar mark by
Speaker 1: Nobel researchers and economists uh Daniel Koneman. Thanks to inflation,
Speaker 1: it might be more like eighty thou dollars. Now I
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe, but it's also important to note though
Speaker 1: that we are living in the richest country in the
Speaker 1: history of the world, and it's easy to see that
Speaker 1: it's often just a band aid and not a permanent
Speaker 1: fix for many folks. And what's needed in reality is
Speaker 1: just a deeper look not only at their money, but
Speaker 1: how it is they pursue other things in life, and
Speaker 1: how it is that they spend their time. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and how do we know that we're so rich? Well,
Speaker 1: statistics for one, but yeah, the numbers just just just
Speaker 1: prove it. Right. When you look at the US is
Speaker 1: very very rich, exactly. Yeah, when you look at overall
Speaker 1: net worth and incomes and an opportunity any we are
Speaker 1: country ranks super high on so many different metrics, and
Speaker 1: so we definitely have an abundance of material wealth in
Speaker 1: this country. The toy stat I referenced earlier, it's just
Speaker 1: another pointer to the fact that we have tons of
Speaker 1: money right floating around in this country. Of the world's
Speaker 1: toys to three percent of the world's population, there's a
Speaker 1: big discrepancy there. But the self care trend, I would say,
Speaker 1: gives us another window into just how prosperous we've become.
Speaker 1: And we're hoping that the Matt and I at least
Speaker 1: we're hoping that the self care trend calms down a
Speaker 1: little bit, because it's often it's not making us happier,
Speaker 1: and it's costing us big money. At the same time.
Speaker 1: There's a recent episode actually of the Money with Katie
Speaker 1: podcast We Think She's Awesome. She talked about how spending
Speaker 1: less on self care and taking less time to pursue
Speaker 1: a beauty regimen actually helped her to feel more empowered,
Speaker 1: which I thought was cool. I appreciated her thoughts on that,
Speaker 1: and then at the same time, I read an article
Speaker 1: in Vox which came to a similar conclusion. The article
Speaker 1: was titled I used all the best stuff for a
Speaker 1: week and it nearly broke me. And what this author
Speaker 1: what she seemed to detail was an increased bent towards perfectionism. Uh.
Speaker 1: We would call it the Didero effect, right where everything
Speaker 1: else around you starts to look a little shabby in
Speaker 1: line to some of these new items you've brought into
Speaker 1: your life. And it was interesting to see Matt that
Speaker 1: her experiment of having the nicest, newest, coolest, instagram worthy
Speaker 1: stuff for a month actually led her to less happiness
Speaker 1: and worst social relationships. Um, and I think that's a
Speaker 1: real problem that we face when we try to make
Speaker 1: ourselves feel better through retail therapy and the stepped up
Speaker 1: self care edgemen right, that we put too much of
Speaker 1: a focus on things less of a focus on the
Speaker 1: things that actually matter, and and that's in large part
Speaker 1: where we fall short. Yeah, I mean, there's nothing wrong
Speaker 1: with like a nice bottle of face serum right from
Speaker 1: the man himself with oils or something like that, But
Speaker 1: it can easily become a slippery slip, right, like, because
Speaker 1: first it's beauty products, it's self care. Next it's upgrading
Speaker 1: your professional wardrobe, you know, but with the excuse that
Speaker 1: maybe you're doing it for your rear, this is an investment,
Speaker 1: or you're doing it just because you deserve it. Like
Speaker 1: we would say that self care that will actually translate
Speaker 1: to higher levels of well being is going to be
Speaker 1: less consumption based, Like, for instance, a walk in the
Speaker 1: woods to distress a proper amount of sleep sounds like
Speaker 1: maybe the best kind of self care that's out there,
Speaker 1: instead of staying up to midnight scrolling Instagram to the
Speaker 1: bed on time, that direct to consumer model that these
Speaker 1: companies have gotten so good at. But these more like
Speaker 1: less money focused, less consumption based ways to increase your
Speaker 1: well being are going to move the needle a whole
Speaker 1: lot more than a a new purse or fancy new
Speaker 1: bed sheets or something like that, because like many Americans
Speaker 1: have just come to buy into the self care ethic
Speaker 1: to the point that it's just costing the money that
Speaker 1: they don't have, and it's not doing much on the
Speaker 1: on the happiness front either, And many times it's creating
Speaker 1: the opposite effect, right, Like remember the control an autonomy
Speaker 1: point from earlier on from that study, the more money
Speaker 1: you spend on self care, the more your bank account
Speaker 1: is going to shrink. Uh, And with that your autonomy
Speaker 1: is shrinking as well. And something that's important to keep
Speaker 1: in mind. We think that we're purchasing happiness, but instead
Speaker 1: we're purchasing our way further into debt. And you're also
Speaker 1: creating a habit that's almost insatiable because there is no
Speaker 1: end to the lust for more goods or more stuff.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, if you kind of start to go
Speaker 1: down this path, you'll find that it's really hard to
Speaker 1: recognize when you're going overboard, and it's hard to see
Speaker 1: that wait a second, it feels like I'm getting momentary
Speaker 1: bursts of happiness as I pursue this route, but in
Speaker 1: the end you're actually left unhappier. But it's just hard
Speaker 1: to point a finger on it, and so you keep
Speaker 1: going down it until you've gone quite a ways. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you have left some of your autonomy kind of
Speaker 1: behind because you don't have as much financial breathing room.
Speaker 1: We're also not saying, by the way that our bodies
Speaker 1: don't matter, and that we would say, you know, taking
Speaker 1: time to work out as clutch that self care you mentioned,
Speaker 1: it's not. It's not the worst thing not to buy
Speaker 1: a bottle of face serum if that's your thing. I
Speaker 1: don't really have any sort of facial regiment. My wife
Speaker 1: says I should probably adopt one, but I don't even
Speaker 1: know what that means or looks like. I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't either. Earlier this year, though, I started wearing a
Speaker 1: very small amount of cologn though, because I was just like,
Speaker 1: you know what, I want to have a smell, and
Speaker 1: so that's something I do know. It's okay to splurge
Speaker 1: just a little bit. You know, the brute smells good
Speaker 1: on you. I'm a big fan of route. There's something
Speaker 1: about smelling like your grandpa that I feel like residents
Speaker 1: with millennials, do you get Yes, exactly. There's nothing wrong
Speaker 1: with like getting massage every once in a while, or
Speaker 1: trying to eat healthier and spending more money on more
Speaker 1: expensive organic foods things like that. That's totally fine. Taking
Speaker 1: care of yourself is good. Like we we want to
Speaker 1: push you in that direction, but just don't buy into
Speaker 1: the treatoself self care mantra that that suddenly insinuates that
Speaker 1: by purchasing fancier products, you're gonna be a better you.
Speaker 1: You're gonna be a happiness happier person. Your happiness levels
Speaker 1: so you're gonna go off the charts. That that is
Speaker 1: just marketing, and it's marketing. That sounds good, right. We
Speaker 1: want to buy into it because we want that feeling.
Speaker 1: But the truth is the feeling is fleeting, and it
Speaker 1: actually often ends up leading to lower levels of overall happiness.
Speaker 1: So how else, maybe, are we duped by some of
Speaker 1: these marketing techniques? How how else are we lead to
Speaker 1: consider buying happiness in our lives? Well, they're there are
Speaker 1: a couple major ways in which we fork over a
Speaker 1: lot of money and in the thought, in the hope
Speaker 1: that it's going to make us happier. Matt, Let's detail
Speaker 1: a couple more and we'll get to those right after this.
Speaker 1: All right, man, we are back from the break and dude,
Speaker 1: we were just talking about how self care. How it's
Speaker 1: it's kind of having its moment, right, but essentially like
Speaker 1: like in reality, it's just consumerism, right, It's just a
Speaker 1: new spin on an old story. But continuing this thread
Speaker 1: of buying stuff homeownership that might be the ultimate form
Speaker 1: of like potentially mindless consumptions, going straight to the sacred count.
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, I mean because like a lot of people,
Speaker 1: they talk about buying a home as an investment um
Speaker 1: but there's a lot less truth to it than most
Speaker 1: people think. In fact is there are a lot of
Speaker 1: folks out there for whom renting makes the most sense,
Speaker 1: but they're still drawn to buying their first home like
Speaker 1: a moth drawn towards the light. Uh. And also because
Speaker 1: it's just such an emotional purchase. This is a category
Speaker 1: that I think folks they often tend to stretch their
Speaker 1: budget on the term house poor. It was invented for
Speaker 1: a reason. There are a lot of folks who are
Speaker 1: house poor. But does that new home actually make us happy. Well,
Speaker 1: we would argue that not nearly as much as we're
Speaker 1: hoping it will. A recent study found that, similar to
Speaker 1: the ten thousand dollar cash and fusion that you mentioned,
Speaker 1: Joel Well, buying a new home only produces a short
Speaker 1: term happiness boost. It's likely for multiple reasons, but it's
Speaker 1: also because there are walls to paint, there are toilets
Speaker 1: to fix, right, things like that, taxes to be paid.
Speaker 1: Maybe you realize the closing attorney didn't include waste management
Speaker 1: in your mortgage, and you're like, what we gotta pay
Speaker 1: for trash? Now? How is that not something thing that's
Speaker 1: included in my mortgage? If you're in City of Atlanta,
Speaker 1: that's that's like extra bucks a year or something like that,
Speaker 1: a lot of money. And on tope of that, if
Speaker 1: we've overspent, you know, that mortgage payment like it's just
Speaker 1: hanging over ahead for the next thirty years and it's
Speaker 1: likely only going to be something that we see increase
Speaker 1: as the property taxes also increase. Sure, yeah, so it's
Speaker 1: not the buying a home is bad, of course, right,
Speaker 1: we met you and I own homes, we own rental properties.
Speaker 1: We're not we own multiple homes. We're not against home ownership,
Speaker 1: but it's just that we have often in our culture,
Speaker 1: we've inflated this purchase in our minds, thinking that that
Speaker 1: we're gonna get long lasting happiness, which tends not to materialize,
Speaker 1: like this home is going to make me happy, right,
Speaker 1: it's but what you know, what is it? They say,
Speaker 1: matt home is where the heart is, right, and so
Speaker 1: it's not just the walls in the structure, and this
Speaker 1: sounds that sounds really lame. I'm sorry, but you're gonna
Speaker 1: quot the magnetic zero song. I don't know. I don't know. Oh,
Speaker 1: that's wherever I'm with you. That's true, that's good. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: there's that that people who are inside of it ten
Speaker 1: years ago, I guess it. But we just tend to
Speaker 1: think like, oh man, this location and this this particular home,
Speaker 1: that it is going to make me happy. And I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna say that I haven't derived some satisfaction from
Speaker 1: home own home ownership. I have, but the realities that
Speaker 1: could have rented a very similar home in a similar
Speaker 1: location gotten a lot of the same vibes, and so
Speaker 1: we just we overrank how happy it's going to make
Speaker 1: us and the folks that ran that study you mentioned, Matt,
Speaker 1: they boiled it down to this, They said, we aren't
Speaker 1: good at predicting what will make us happy. And I
Speaker 1: thought that was profound for economists making, you know, writing
Speaker 1: a white paper. But for many millennials who are still
Speaker 1: saving up for a down payment, they put home ownership
Speaker 1: on this pedestal and they I think they think it's
Speaker 1: going to solve some of their problems, right, or maybe
Speaker 1: a lot of their problems, that that once I get
Speaker 1: this thing, it's going to do something that nothing else
Speaker 1: could do for me. And owning a home can be
Speaker 1: a great thing for individuals, for families, providing something that
Speaker 1: is I will say, more than just a roof of
Speaker 1: your head, right, Like for for many Americans, their home
Speaker 1: does end up becoming one of the largest assets. That's
Speaker 1: not what we want to be the case, but that
Speaker 1: is the reality for a lot of folks that I
Speaker 1: can going to home for ten years or something like that,
Speaker 1: and you just like you barely invest in the market
Speaker 1: because you're banking on the fact that your home is appreciating.
Speaker 1: That's you're big. Like that does become your biggest asset
Speaker 1: because you haven't invested enough in other areas also, I
Speaker 1: would say it's fun in a lot of ways to
Speaker 1: own your own place, like the customization right that you
Speaker 1: can that you can have like paint, paint the walls
Speaker 1: whatever color you want. There's no landlord to tell you no, no, no, sorry,
Speaker 1: hot pinks off limits. There's also no landlord to say, hey, actually, um,
Speaker 1: I'm selling this property. And so you're gonna need to
Speaker 1: move anything like that. Like you can stability there as
Speaker 1: long as you can pay that mortgage, you can stay.
Speaker 1: But in no way is that this continual happiness producer,
Speaker 1: and it can actually have the opposite effect if it
Speaker 1: becomes a massive drag on your monthly budget. And so
Speaker 1: it's important to go into home ownership with the right mindset.
Speaker 1: Some of these bigger things that we think are financially
Speaker 1: intelligent and we're banking on the fact that they're also
Speaker 1: going to make us like happier people, Well, the reality
Speaker 1: is often a lot different, and that for a lot
Speaker 1: of folks, homeownership can become more of a financial drag
Speaker 1: and a happiness drag. That's right, man. We pin too
Speaker 1: many of our hopes, I think, on homeownership, and so
Speaker 1: far we've talked about things that you can buy, right,
Speaker 1: whether it's beauty products, self care items, or services. I
Speaker 1: guess we've talked about buying homes. Let's let's talk about
Speaker 1: maybe a different arena, uh, somewhere else that we seek
Speaker 1: to find happiness, and that's in the work that we perform. Uh.
Speaker 1: And so I'll start this out by saying, like, we've
Speaker 1: got a lot of friends in the Fire community, right,
Speaker 1: which is the financial independence retire early community. And it
Speaker 1: seems that a decent swath of those folks that they
Speaker 1: have a negative view of work, right, like where they're
Speaker 1: trying to escape the rat race. They're trying to escape
Speaker 1: the nine to five. And really a large reason why
Speaker 1: the Fire movement was able to gain steam, why they
Speaker 1: were able to gain traction at over the past decade,
Speaker 1: was because just because it was a rejection of the
Speaker 1: achievement based, status pursuing view of work, where all your
Speaker 1: worth is determined by your title or by the letters
Speaker 1: that come after your name because of the education that
Speaker 1: you've achieved. There's a lot of good in that, right,
Speaker 1: because it's like, who wants to be based on their
Speaker 1: value to be based on that mostly or solely exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But the thing is like that pendulum. It was pretty
Speaker 1: far to one side, right, and so it swung all
Speaker 1: the way over to the other end of the spectrum
Speaker 1: in an over correction. But of course we like to
Speaker 1: take a more nuanced approach to the work that we perform.
Speaker 1: And you know, we think that neither the rejection nor
Speaker 1: the blind embrace of work will yield us the most happiness. Right, Like,
Speaker 1: of course work is important. We spend a lot of
Speaker 1: our waking hours at work, So not hating your job
Speaker 1: would be great. Uh. The ability to see the value
Speaker 1: that you're bringing into the world, how you're making it
Speaker 1: a better place. That is an important part of a
Speaker 1: purposeful life for sure. But we also don't want you
Speaker 1: to be defined by your job, by what it is
Speaker 1: that you do. Yeah, but we've also I think we've
Speaker 1: pushed a popular cultural myth of the fact that your
Speaker 1: work is supposed to make you happy and you should
Speaker 1: enjoy what you do every day, so your passionate. Yeah.
Speaker 1: That that and that has I think set up a
Speaker 1: lot of people for dissatisfaction. They have thought that there
Speaker 1: nine to five should be something where it's like, I
Speaker 1: love the people I work with and the work I do,
Speaker 1: And yeah, and I get paid a ton, right, giving
Speaker 1: me tons of free time to do whatever I like
Speaker 1: and browse on Instagram whenever I want to or whatever.
Speaker 1: But like, the truth is that almost nobody has that
Speaker 1: job like and and even for people who enjoy the
Speaker 1: work they do one, it doesn't mean that they naturally
Speaker 1: gravitated towards towards it to begin with. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of people who find themselves in a job and they're like,
Speaker 1: they find the value in it, even if it's not
Speaker 1: something they intentionally sought out. And so it's it's really
Speaker 1: interesting to see how some people end up massively happy
Speaker 1: in work that they didn't didn't necessarily think was going
Speaker 1: to make them happy. I think so much of it
Speaker 1: comes down to a mindset and and sometimes on top
Speaker 1: of it, if your work is solid and it allows
Speaker 1: you enough money to pay the bills and to have
Speaker 1: enough free time, like, you don't have to love your job.
Speaker 1: You can love all the other stuff outside of your job.
Speaker 1: But the reality is, like with million Americans, like, not
Speaker 1: every single one of us is going to absolutely love
Speaker 1: what we do every day. And even when you do
Speaker 1: like your job, it doesn't mean that every single day
Speaker 1: is like the best thing ever, right, and Matt, we
Speaker 1: like what we do here. We get to get to
Speaker 1: work with your best boody, get to drink mirror, get
Speaker 1: to talk about stuff that matters to us. That that
Speaker 1: is a really good thing and it's taken us a
Speaker 1: lot of years to get to this point. Even still,
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that every single day we come in
Speaker 1: here with a smile on our faces. Maybe we should,
Speaker 1: maybe we should, but like, that's just not how it works,
Speaker 1: because there's business stuff to get done, and so not
Speaker 1: every day is like this walk in the park, even
Speaker 1: when you like what you do. And that's exactly that's
Speaker 1: important to mention to you honestly, Like the way you're
Speaker 1: talking about it, it kind of makes me think of relationships, right,
Speaker 1: And it's easy to fall into love, right, but what
Speaker 1: that is typically it's just infatuation. That's not true love.
Speaker 1: What true love is and committing to a long term
Speaker 1: relationship is working hard at something. Of course, you're this
Speaker 1: is someone who you're attracted to, that you're drawn to,
Speaker 1: that you maybe want to spend the rest of your
Speaker 1: of your life with, you have a lot in common with, hopefully,
Speaker 1: and yeah, but you enjoy the way their mind work.
Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean that, like you said, with work,
Speaker 1: that it's going to be rainbows and butterflies all the time.
Speaker 1: And sometimes that is what makes the relationship stronger over time,
Speaker 1: is the fact that, like you had hurdles, that you
Speaker 1: have had difficulties, and then it's like, wait a second,
Speaker 1: look at what we've come through together, and that makes
Speaker 1: the love even better, even richer. Exactly. Yeah, So while
Speaker 1: we're talking about relationships, I think that's another one that's
Speaker 1: important to tackle as well, because I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people also pin their happiness on relationship. You know,
Speaker 1: the belief that relationships will make you happy. It's it's
Speaker 1: fairly ubiquitous, but it is also incredibly flawed. Why else
Speaker 1: what over forty four million folks in the U s
Speaker 1: Hop over to dating apps but to find someone who's
Speaker 1: gonna make them happy. Of course, that's why these apps crush, uh,
Speaker 1: And there are so many folks on there, it's something
Speaker 1: like three fifty million globally. But the thing is, the
Speaker 1: research confirms this behavior as well, because, according to the
Speaker 1: Harvard Study of Adult Development, the biggest predictor of happiness
Speaker 1: are stable relationships, especially long term romantic relationships. Uh, and
Speaker 1: not only that, you know, there's plenty of studies and
Speaker 1: research out there that have shown that satisfying relationships lead
Speaker 1: to better health. It leads to people living longer as well.
Speaker 1: And so why this sort of sounds like this is
Speaker 1: a slam dunk argument to go out and find true love.
Speaker 1: But it would be a massive mistake to think that
Speaker 1: this alone is going to bring about lasting happiness. Like
Speaker 1: you said, with finding a job that you love, it's
Speaker 1: not about necessarily finding a job that you love, as
Speaker 1: opposed to maybe creating a job that you that you
Speaker 1: love and finding the things about it that you love
Speaker 1: and being the kind of person who can enjoy their
Speaker 1: work even if it's not the ideal scenario exactly, dude. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and of course we we all know if folks who
Speaker 1: aren't actually married, right, who don't have a partner or
Speaker 1: a significant other, and they're out there uh quite happy,
Speaker 1: they're living their best lives. So it's not completely dependent
Speaker 1: on finding somebody else in order to have happiness for sure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that there is no it's it's the partner is not
Speaker 1: going to solve all the things that ails you. And
Speaker 1: if you think they are, and if that's what you're
Speaker 1: looking for, you're actually probably gonna make them unhappy in
Speaker 1: your question for happiness, like both of you will end
Speaker 1: up placing too much on that relationship. You're putting too
Speaker 1: much on their shoulder. You're asking you to do something
Speaker 1: that it can't do. You're asking a person to do
Speaker 1: something that they can't do. Fulfill me right now, well
Speaker 1: and all, the likelihood of those singles being happy has
Speaker 1: a lot to do with other important relationships in their
Speaker 1: lives as well, Matt, like those with friends and family.
Speaker 1: And so you only need to look as far as
Speaker 1: the Transformation on book the Top five Regrets of the
Speaker 1: Dying to see this. Interestingly, three of those regrets, three
Speaker 1: of them have more to do with self actualization, but
Speaker 1: the other two are about working less and pursuing friendships more.
Speaker 1: And especially, you know, given how much time is being
Speaker 1: spent alone these days, there were recent statistics and their
Speaker 1: mind blowing. I mean, I think we're all tired of
Speaker 1: hearing the word pandemic at this point, but there is
Speaker 1: basically a pandemic of loneliness, and people feel more on
Speaker 1: their own, they feel more disconnected from the people around
Speaker 1: them in their community. From friends and family than ever before,
Speaker 1: So folks run the risk of having more relational regrets
Speaker 1: at the end of the of their lives than even
Speaker 1: ten twenty years ago. We're often choosing what feels like
Speaker 1: real interactions on social media over actual, real conversations and
Speaker 1: time together. And those interactions on social media they feel,
Speaker 1: they seem like they're going to be real, but they
Speaker 1: don't provide nearly the same happiness benefit. Yeah, exactly, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you might have like five followers on Instagram or five
Speaker 1: thousand friends on Facebook, but how many of those relationships
Speaker 1: actually have depth and actually have substance to them that
Speaker 1: would lead to like like meaningful fulfillment. Yeah, your boy
Speaker 1: Christiano Ronaldo has like five million Instagram followers and how
Speaker 1: many How of those followers does he have deep connections with?
Speaker 1: None of them? Right or almost none of them? And
Speaker 1: there is something to be said about that. It's like,
Speaker 1: at what point does that follower count or do those
Speaker 1: online interactions matter? And I would say they don't have
Speaker 1: much influence for the most part over are happiness, and
Speaker 1: in fact, because we spend so much time doing them,
Speaker 1: it's often having the opposite effect. And Neil Hilborn he
Speaker 1: once said, I'm not saying you'll find meaning the meaning
Speaker 1: of life in other people. He said, I'm saying other
Speaker 1: people are the life to which you provide meaning to.
Speaker 1: And I think that's really profound to think. When we
Speaker 1: stopped looking to find meaning in other people in the
Speaker 1: relationships around us, and we seek to provide meaning instead
Speaker 1: to the people around us, that's when our happiness levels
Speaker 1: are going to go up and our deeper sense of
Speaker 1: purpose is going to be felt. Exactly if you look
Speaker 1: at it through like the consumption production model, it has
Speaker 1: more to do with pouring into other people's lives, and
Speaker 1: hopefully you have people who are doing that around you
Speaker 1: as well, who are pouring into your life. Like it
Speaker 1: kind of comes down to again when we're talking about
Speaker 1: social media, it comes down to like quality over quantity, right,
Speaker 1: And while you might have hundreds or thousands or hundreds
Speaker 1: of millions if you're a soccer superstar. By the way,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm a more of a messy guy Fernaldo Personally,
Speaker 1: I thought you were. He's awesome. I love him, But
Speaker 1: the quality of your relationships. Relationships matter a ton because obviously,
Speaker 1: if you have somebody in your life, whether it's a
Speaker 1: friend or certainly a partner, and if it's a bad relationship,
Speaker 1: if it's a toxic relationship, you're going to see the
Speaker 1: opposite of happiness. Right, Like, you're gonna you're gonna have
Speaker 1: increased stress levels, your your health probably is going to
Speaker 1: be worse. I guess you could take it to its
Speaker 1: ultimate conclusion, and maybe there's research that shows that you're
Speaker 1: not gonna live as long. Basically, all the opposite things
Speaker 1: that fulfilling relationships provide poor quality or even toxic relationships,
Speaker 1: I've got to think of the opposite. Yeah, well, so
Speaker 1: I think the basic formula probably for greater relational happiness
Speaker 1: is to spend less time alone, spend more time with
Speaker 1: the people that matter to you, and then act as
Speaker 1: though you are actively seeking to make them happier. Right.
Speaker 1: And the more and the more you seek to do that,
Speaker 1: the more you're pouring into those relationships in a way
Speaker 1: that benefits the other party, the more your happiness is
Speaker 1: going to be impacted, And the more they're gonna be
Speaker 1: for you when it counts to Like, the more you're
Speaker 1: gonna have people around you when hard things happen, and
Speaker 1: like you need those friendships to support you then in
Speaker 1: lean times that you might have. That's right, man, I
Speaker 1: could not agree more. That's certainly a way to increase
Speaker 1: the amount of happiness, uh, and some of the satisfaction
Speaker 1: that we're able to garner from the different relationships in
Speaker 1: our lives. But right after the break, we're gonna continue
Speaker 1: along and we're actually going to dive into some more scientific,
Speaker 1: some nerdier terms that we think will ultimately help you
Speaker 1: to distinguish between some of the different types of happiness.
Speaker 1: Like essentially, we're gonna boil it down to two different
Speaker 1: types of happiness, and we think that there is room
Speaker 1: for both of these types of happiness in your life,
Speaker 1: and we'll get to those right after this. Okay, we're
Speaker 1: gonna keep this happiness conversation going. Mat This is making
Speaker 1: me happy as we speak. The happiness train. I thought
Speaker 1: you're gonna say, keeping on rolling. And by the way,
Speaker 1: we have train tracks like real close do where we live.
Speaker 1: I saw the other day trains. There was a truck
Speaker 1: on the train tracks, but it had like wheels, train wheels. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was doing repairs. It's so funny. Did you see
Speaker 1: it on Saturday? Maybe it was so cool. I've never
Speaker 1: seen one before I have. So I've seen those trucks
Speaker 1: driving around town before, but I've never actually seen one
Speaker 1: on the tracks where it had the steel little steel
Speaker 1: wheels drop with the tires propelling it along. I thought
Speaker 1: that was awesome, look like the cool thing of it.
Speaker 1: I was like, totally agree. If I have a job
Speaker 1: after podcasting, maybe it's repairing train guy the drive the
Speaker 1: truck that that's allowed to drive on the train tracks.
Speaker 1: And my son would be so jealous. Yeah, what I
Speaker 1: saw it. I was like, West, you look, buddy, he's
Speaker 1: just like train truck. I was like, that's what I
Speaker 1: would call it too. But that is somehow the combination
Speaker 1: of my two everything's dead. Well, let's talk about happiness, Matt,
Speaker 1: because it's amazing just how sometimes those little things can
Speaker 1: make our kiddos so happy seeing a training things. I'm
Speaker 1: always amazed seeing Christmas lights, even just a couple of
Speaker 1: weeks ago, going to see some free Christmas lights with
Speaker 1: my kids seeing them through their eyes, but their eyes
Speaker 1: light up and it's like, this is the coolest thing.
Speaker 1: It's not even something new, it's just an experience that
Speaker 1: they get to enjoy. Um And But and I would say,
Speaker 1: maybe we're getting a bit far along in the podcast
Speaker 1: to define terms, but we've been talking about. What we've
Speaker 1: been talking about here largely is the difference between hedonic
Speaker 1: and you demonic happiness. Right, And you've you've heard us
Speaker 1: talk about the hedonic treadmill before on the show Typic.
Speaker 1: Listening for any period of time typically a bad thing.
Speaker 1: It's where you spend a bunch of money and you
Speaker 1: get that quick little sugar rush, that little, quick little
Speaker 1: peak of happiness, but then you've got to keep you
Speaker 1: return right back to your baseline of happiness, right, and
Speaker 1: then if you don't don't actually get anywhere, continue Like
Speaker 1: let's say you started a skincare regiment and your skins
Speaker 1: looking at then you're like, I don't have the money
Speaker 1: to keep it up. Well, you're gonna be less happy
Speaker 1: now because you started and it was taken away. But
Speaker 1: hedonic happiness is centered around the bliss that momentary pleasures
Speaker 1: can provide, while you donomic happiness has much more to
Speaker 1: do with meaningful activities that boost our ability to self actualize,
Speaker 1: which typically brings about more lasting happiness in our lives.
Speaker 1: And so you might think that we're here to throw
Speaker 1: all those forms of hedonic happiness out the window, you
Speaker 1: might say, Joela Matte, they only want those those long
Speaker 1: form ways to boost our happiness. But that is not
Speaker 1: true actually, because remember what we're doing right now. Part
Speaker 1: of the philosophy of our show even is that we
Speaker 1: drink a craft beer while we talk about money, because
Speaker 1: we care about even some of those a few of
Speaker 1: those hedonic abilities to enjoy happiness in here now, some
Speaker 1: of the tangible physical realities that do actually contribute our
Speaker 1: happiness if used properly, and if you're in a decently
Speaker 1: stable personal finance position, well, we think it's important to
Speaker 1: find the right balance. And even though we come down
Speaker 1: pretty hard on mindless consumption, that doesn't mean that you
Speaker 1: can't enjoy some of the nice easy life in the
Speaker 1: here and now. And that's yeah, one of the things
Speaker 1: that craft beer does force Matt I feel like in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, that's right. Yeah. What's interesting is
Speaker 1: that it seems that oftentimes when it comes to hedonic
Speaker 1: happiness like that comes about by us spending money, whereas
Speaker 1: when we're pursuing you demonic happiness, oftentimes we're spending time,
Speaker 1: which is the whole time and money parallel has always
Speaker 1: been one that's that's fascinated me. So, like you're basically
Speaker 1: talking about how we're not gonna we're not gonna like
Speaker 1: drop the hammer on hedonic happiness, um, which would maybe
Speaker 1: be a would that be a decent name for a band,
Speaker 1: But we're also not going to glorify you demonic happiness, right, Like,
Speaker 1: we're not going to say that that you should avoid
Speaker 1: worldly pleasures in an attempt to live a mission driven
Speaker 1: life of the time. And if you're not working towards
Speaker 1: your goals every second of the day, then you're just
Speaker 1: a worthless human being. That would be a puritanical existence
Speaker 1: that we're not seeking to strive after. But you are
Speaker 1: listening to an episode on happiness, and so you know,
Speaker 1: we we do want to encourage you to find ways
Speaker 1: to maybe like reasonably maximize both hedonic happiness and you
Speaker 1: demonic happiness, and we think that that's going to be
Speaker 1: the best way to to to leave a happier life overall.
Speaker 1: You've got to find that balance and you've got to
Speaker 1: figure out which aspects of each of those types of
Speaker 1: happiness ring most true to you. Yeah, all right, So
Speaker 1: how do you do that? Well? When it comes to
Speaker 1: increasing the amount of hedonic happiness in your life. The
Speaker 1: more consumption oriented version, well, the simple mechanism we'd recommend
Speaker 1: is to budgets, or at the very least to track
Speaker 1: your spending us right. And by doing this, you're gonna
Speaker 1: be able to see where your dollars are actually going.
Speaker 1: You'll be forced to confront the actual facts on the ground,
Speaker 1: and then you can simply ask yourself if you like
Speaker 1: how you're spending your money, Like do I like spending
Speaker 1: seven fifty dollars a month eating out? Or could I
Speaker 1: spend that money in a way that's going to move
Speaker 1: the needle in a bigger way for me? Like, you
Speaker 1: know what, I didn't realize I was spending that much.
Speaker 1: I thought I was spending three fifty a month eating out.
Speaker 1: That sounds like more like what I should we spend.
Speaker 1: I can dial it back because then that means I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be able to take two more trips a year
Speaker 1: with family or friends, like create better memories, and I
Speaker 1: feel like, right now, it's just going down the toilet.
Speaker 1: Or you might say, actually, no, I want to spend
Speaker 1: a thousand dollars a month eating out, because these are
Speaker 1: always relational experiences with people that are closest to Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: and that's fine too, But so much of it's about
Speaker 1: being intentional with your money rather than frittering it away.
Speaker 1: And if you want to make the most use of
Speaker 1: it to boost your hedonic happiness in the biggest way,
Speaker 1: you're gonna want to track it. And then you're gonna
Speaker 1: want to kind of hold that up to the light
Speaker 1: against your values and say, like, well, am I actually
Speaker 1: spending my money the way that it's going to produce
Speaker 1: the best results on the happiness front for me? Exactly?
Speaker 1: And I like that you pointed out that it could
Speaker 1: also be somebody spending money on trips, because it's it's
Speaker 1: not that all hedonic happiness should be derived from items,
Speaker 1: because experiences, like you said, trips, vacations, going out to
Speaker 1: eat with friends, those are oftentimes you know, most folks
Speaker 1: consider those experiences, but those can also be a form
Speaker 1: of hedonic happiness because typically you receive that that short
Speaker 1: term high, right like you go out to eat, the
Speaker 1: food is delicious, you are enjoying it in the moment.
Speaker 1: Maybe there's great cocktails, you see some other friends, it's
Speaker 1: a fun time. But then after that, all that's gone
Speaker 1: in the same way. And you know, some folks would
Speaker 1: make an argument to say that, well, there's memories being formed,
Speaker 1: and so there's are maybe a richer form of hedonic
Speaker 1: happiness that's taking place. Maybe there's a little you demonic
Speaker 1: bunts you're getting at the same time. Exactly, Yeah, but
Speaker 1: I mean, oftentimes unmonic like it it comes down to
Speaker 1: the like I guess, the work that you're performing. But essentially,
Speaker 1: like you said, it's it's holding it up to the light,
Speaker 1: it's aligning, it's it's finding alignment between what it is
Speaker 1: that you want to spend your money on and how
Speaker 1: it is that you're actually doing it. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: we want you to boost your hedonic happiness by intentionally
Speaker 1: spending your own money, and then you're able to boost
Speaker 1: your u demonic happiness by intentionally spending your time. You know,
Speaker 1: like like our society, like us included, sometimes we we
Speaker 1: tend to always use the term wealth to refer to money,
Speaker 1: but you know, like they're all sorts of different ways
Speaker 1: that we think you can be wealthy in this life, right,
Speaker 1: Like you can have relational wealth, you can have creative wealth.
Speaker 1: Even just like you know, as we're talking about you
Speaker 1: demonic happiness just missional wealth that allows you to feel
Speaker 1: like you're making a difference in the world, pindable wealth
Speaker 1: of knowledge that comes from reading books and contending information
Speaker 1: that that growth that's taking place gives you an internal richness,
Speaker 1: right exactly. It's like essentially what we're talking about here,
Speaker 1: all the different types of wealth that allow you to
Speaker 1: self actualize. We're talking about mass Thow's hierarchy of needs,
Speaker 1: and that is at the tippy top, and that is
Speaker 1: I mean, it's kind of there's a reason that it's
Speaker 1: literally at the pinnacle of the of the actual trying
Speaker 1: because you've gotta have all those other bases covered before
Speaker 1: you can really think about that. And that's why you
Speaker 1: mentioned the s like reference earlier on Matt and how Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you're making a year barely making ends meet, then
Speaker 1: it's going to be hard to focus on some of
Speaker 1: these other levels of happiness. So money does play a
Speaker 1: role in your ability to pursue some of these other things.
Speaker 1: The more money you have in the bank account, the
Speaker 1: more it allows you to have some of this free time.
Speaker 1: But the problem is a lot of us don't take
Speaker 1: that when we have it, and so I don't know,
Speaker 1: but it's still it's still a very functional thing to
Speaker 1: talk about. But like, there's a reason why we have
Speaker 1: a show called How the Money, because we still think
Speaker 1: it's really important, right, and especially given kind of the
Speaker 1: the ability that we have in this country, which is,
Speaker 1: like we said, one of the richest country in the
Speaker 1: history of the world. We have more opportunity to maximize
Speaker 1: our money, to make smart decisions, to buy ourselves, more
Speaker 1: ability to do some of these things. And so I
Speaker 1: guess someone might ask the question like, well, why do
Speaker 1: you guys spend all your time your work lives essentially
Speaker 1: dedicated to talking about money, And you know, we would say, well,
Speaker 1: handling money, well is probably it's it's one of the
Speaker 1: main tools in life that allows you to pursue other
Speaker 1: things to be more importance. It allows you to actually
Speaker 1: have more time thinking about that the unonomic happiness components,
Speaker 1: and so many folks don't know the basics, right, which
Speaker 1: is why we're on a mission. We're on a mission
Speaker 1: to change that. But this is also why we don't
Speaker 1: get super nerdy, incredibly technical with the with some of
Speaker 1: these other deeper aspects of personal finance, because those don't
Speaker 1: really matter all that much either. And you're talking about
Speaker 1: the difference between doing the things spot on and then
Speaker 1: spending an inordinate amount of time optimizing ticket an extra
Speaker 1: three percent. Right, And so we want to redefine the
Speaker 1: focus of money. We want to say, listen, these are
Speaker 1: the things that really matter. We want you to get
Speaker 1: these things right. We want you to handle money well
Speaker 1: because it impacts all these other areas of your life.
Speaker 1: But it's also not the end all be all right,
Speaker 1: and and that's that's that's exactly how we feel about money,
Speaker 1: is that it's a really important tool, but it's uh,
Speaker 1: there's it also lacks a lot of things too when
Speaker 1: it comes to how happy it makes us exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So money it's still gonna be the focus of our
Speaker 1: show because we do think it's it's it really is
Speaker 1: such a foundational tool. In January, we can change our
Speaker 1: name to how to Happy, how to how to beer,
Speaker 1: how to bike. These are all the topics we talk
Speaker 1: about the show. Okay, but let's let's get more practical
Speaker 1: with it, right. And so if budgeting and track you're spending,
Speaker 1: if that allows you to reprioritize how you're spending your money, well,
Speaker 1: then simply looking at your calendar like that can help
Speaker 1: you to do the same with your time. And so
Speaker 1: look at it and see is like is it full
Speaker 1: of events and meetings that you are excited about? But
Speaker 1: or have you slipped into the business trap that's so
Speaker 1: easy to fall prey to, I mean, especially this time
Speaker 1: of year. That being said, not everybody follows their calendar
Speaker 1: maybe as strictly as others. Um and so maybe if
Speaker 1: you'd rather start with the end in mind, it could
Speaker 1: be helpful to start with like some of life's biggest questions.
Speaker 1: You can take it a completely different approach and you
Speaker 1: can come up with a mission statement that you can
Speaker 1: work towards. I think for a lot of folks, having
Speaker 1: that end in mind, having that goal that you're working
Speaker 1: towards can just allow everything else to kind of fall
Speaker 1: into place, as opposed to starting at the bottom and
Speaker 1: kind of piecing it together. It can act like a
Speaker 1: guiding light to inform the other choices and have you
Speaker 1: decide to incorporate it into your life. Yeah, yeah, And
Speaker 1: so what will link to a works you that we've
Speaker 1: created to help you to find the answers to some
Speaker 1: of these questions. That's our money mission statement, But the
Speaker 1: money part of it is is kind of secondary to
Speaker 1: the first questions we ask, which is primarily more about
Speaker 1: how it is that you want to spend your time,
Speaker 1: because ultimately time, like it is the most valuable resource,
Speaker 1: it is the most scarce resource that we have, and
Speaker 1: that ultimately defines what it is that your life looks like,
Speaker 1: how it is that you are spending your days in
Speaker 1: your weeks. And we think this is the perfect time
Speaker 1: to be thinking about this topic because we just got maybe,
Speaker 1: like I referenced at the beginning of the episode, Christmas
Speaker 1: let you down in a way like it wasn't all
Speaker 1: that you hoped it would be. And you built it
Speaker 1: up through the month of December, singing the Carrols, listening
Speaker 1: to the Mariah carry jams, and you're like decorating the
Speaker 1: tree Mariah carries out. Man. You would see the headlines.
Speaker 1: Is it not still the number one most listen to
Speaker 1: Christmas song? It might be, but everyone's like revolting. Nobody
Speaker 1: wants to hear it here really more. Yeah, Okay, don't
Speaker 1: tell that to my wife. Your wife is such a millennial.
Speaker 1: She loves that song. She hates Mariah Carey. Well, you're
Speaker 1: doing all these things right, in this effort to have
Speaker 1: a happy Christmas, and yet you may have still else
Speaker 1: a little bit left down. And so especially as we're
Speaker 1: going to towards a new year and you're starting to
Speaker 1: think about like maybe things you want to change. There's
Speaker 1: a fresh start. We're gonna talk about fresh starts here
Speaker 1: next week on the show. But you have this ability
Speaker 1: to use use this fresh start to propel yourself forward
Speaker 1: in a different way. This is the perfect time to
Speaker 1: be thinking about all these things as you're kind of
Speaker 1: making those plans and from where we're sitting, cultivating a
Speaker 1: rich inner life, like delightful hobbies and indispensable community are
Speaker 1: some of the keys defining happiness. Money it's not unimportant,
Speaker 1: right you know what, Matt and I were not planning
Speaker 1: to take a vow of poverty anytime soon. You're not
Speaker 1: gonna live a monastic existence and not yet un monastery,
Speaker 1: become one of those desert fathers. Maybe your wife and
Speaker 1: kids would love it if you left right now. They
Speaker 1: think that was great. It have to be like an
Speaker 1: empty duster thing. Yeah, maybe that, But but like money
Speaker 1: doesn't have all that much bearing on a lot of
Speaker 1: these things past a certain point. That is kind of
Speaker 1: what we're getting out here. And if you've been listening
Speaker 1: to this show for any point, that's time. You know.
Speaker 1: We're not against building wealth for your future, but now
Speaker 1: is a great time to think about how much stock
Speaker 1: you're placing in your bank or your investment accounts, and
Speaker 1: are you placing too much of a priority on those
Speaker 1: things to the detriment of other more important things. That's
Speaker 1: food for thought as we're heading into a new year.
Speaker 1: That's right. Man, couldn't have said it better myself. Let's
Speaker 1: go ahead and shift gears and get back to the
Speaker 1: beer that you and I enjoyed during this episode. This
Speaker 1: was called mile High Salute, which is the only mile
Speaker 1: high salute? Is that the Broncos football thing? Have you
Speaker 1: ever heard? I think it is when they do the
Speaker 1: you know when they did they do that anymore? I
Speaker 1: don't know. Um, I feel like I remember that back
Speaker 1: in the day, Carl Davis remember exactly. But this was
Speaker 1: a Checha sour And when Jack dropped these beers off,
Speaker 1: you mentioned so one of the cobrewers, I guess one
Speaker 1: of the co owners of the brewery. Uh he I
Speaker 1: think he's half Peruvian. And there's a drink called the
Speaker 1: Cheecha something may maybe it's called the Cheecha sour Chicha Murada.
Speaker 1: I believe was that it very nice? Did you look
Speaker 1: it up? I did? Okay, Wikipedia so helpful. But this
Speaker 1: beer is brewed in the style of that drink. Uh,
Speaker 1: And so I would like to hear your thoughts, Joel.
Speaker 1: All right, I've never had a beer like this, which
Speaker 1: I think is always fun to something always unique, like
Speaker 1: a little out of left field. This one definitely was that.
Speaker 1: It was a really cool combo of sour, spice and fruit,
Speaker 1: and so I like the pineapple, but there was also cinnamon,
Speaker 1: but then it was also sour. Until it's like it
Speaker 1: feels kind of like a kitchen sink beer in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways, but but not in a weird way,
Speaker 1: not in a weird way, like all it all actually works.
Speaker 1: Everything blended together really well. And so I will say, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it sounds a little weird on its surface if you
Speaker 1: read all these ingredients combined into one, but I don't know.
Speaker 1: This beer pulled it off and I enjoyed it. What
Speaker 1: about you? Yes, the only poured this the what I
Speaker 1: was picking up on the nose. I could not get
Speaker 1: past this. But Luxardo Marischino Liqueur. I like to sometimes
Speaker 1: put a little like tiny little splash of that when
Speaker 1: I'm making an old fashioned. In my opinion, that's exactly
Speaker 1: what this like before I tasted it, because yeah, because
Speaker 1: I don't for whatever reason, that's that's what I'll smelling.
Speaker 1: But then you take a sip and you can definitely
Speaker 1: taste that fruit, and that for me, the cinnamon really
Speaker 1: came through, like, in my opinion, that was not something
Speaker 1: I was picking up on my nose for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: But then what you tasted, you most definitely taste that.
Speaker 1: There's a lot in the flavor profile for clothes. It's
Speaker 1: all mixed in there, and this one in particularly too.
Speaker 1: I thought you might really like this one because it
Speaker 1: was not overly sweet. I was expecting it it might be.
Speaker 1: Personally I would appreciate if it was a touch sweeter,
Speaker 1: but it was had a nice amount of tartness going on,
Speaker 1: and honestly, that's great from the standpoint of not having
Speaker 1: like palette fatigue. You know, like it's a sweeter beer.
Speaker 1: You drink it once and you're like, oh, this is amazing,
Speaker 1: but by the time you get to the end of
Speaker 1: the glass, you're kind of getting sick of its starting
Speaker 1: to feel kind of full. But that is not the
Speaker 1: case with something that's a little bit on the dryer side.
Speaker 1: You get to the end of it and you're just
Speaker 1: wanting more because it's dry, and you're like, oh, any
Speaker 1: more sweetness, any more wetness in my mouth. Definitely really
Speaker 1: enjoyed this one. This was an incredibly unique beer, and
Speaker 1: if you happen to be near Mutation Brewery, we would
Speaker 1: recommend you checking it out for sure, just outside of Atlanta.
Speaker 1: We still haven't been in person, but we'll make it
Speaker 1: happen soon. Well, that's gonna do it for this episode,
Speaker 1: Matt Folks and fine show notes. Links to some of
Speaker 1: the studies maybe that we mentioned in this episode. You
Speaker 1: can find links to that. Yeah, on our website at
Speaker 1: how to money dot com. That's right, and we are
Speaker 1: getting towards the end of the year, and so we
Speaker 1: will ask you one last time if you have enjoyed
Speaker 1: this episode or just our show in general this year,
Speaker 1: we would love it if you were to head over
Speaker 1: to Apple Podcasts or wherever it is that you listen
Speaker 1: and leave us a positive rating, give us a nice
Speaker 1: review over there. It just helps others to find this show.
Speaker 1: You can even see it as a belated Christmas gift,
Speaker 1: a nice little present for Matt and Jewel, so much
Speaker 1: better than the ugly Christmas winter you thought about sending us. Exactly,
Speaker 1: but Joe, that's gonna be at money for this episode
Speaker 1: until next time. Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out bo