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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we're discussing pursuing happiness in all the wrong ways. Yeah, Joel,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's not that there are folks out there

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Speaker 1: who aren't pursuing happiness. They're doing it the way that

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Speaker 1: they think that they should. They're just looking in all

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Speaker 1: the wrong places. And when some people are going about

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Speaker 1: it in all the wrong ways, pursuing like actual like

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Speaker 1: their goal, how can I be happier? Which is typically

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Speaker 1: the wrong question to ask if you want to be happy.

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Speaker 1: That is true, I mean, although I mean that is

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Speaker 1: exactly what we're talking about. But we're gonna talk about

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Speaker 1: happiness in a more lasting and in a more fulfilling

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Speaker 1: kind of way. That's what we're going to be talking

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Speaker 1: about today. And also we are going to talk about money,

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Speaker 1: because money certainly plays an important role when it comes

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Speaker 1: to our pursuit of happiness. But okay, so real quick

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Speaker 1: before we get into a jewel. So the neighborhood that

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Speaker 1: we moved to, it's great, you know, we like it there.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of kids running around, which is

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Speaker 1: also a great thing. It's a lot of fun to

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Speaker 1: see the kids you know, running around playing. This also

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Speaker 1: means that there are a lot of kids selling stuff.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of entrepreneurial kids in your hood, like

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Speaker 1: literally going door to door and being like, hey, would

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Speaker 1: you like to buy some of whatever that they made

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Speaker 1: some bracelets, uh, as well as different stands that are

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Speaker 1: set up along the street, that kind of thing. And

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Speaker 1: there were some neighborhood kids and they had set up

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Speaker 1: like a holiday treats table or stands. Sounds nice, sounds festive, right, Uh,

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Speaker 1: they're selling hot chocolate for three dollars a cup, along

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Speaker 1: with like candy canes and stuff like what is the Starbucks?

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Speaker 1: I'm all for entrepreneurship here, but that's how three dollars

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Speaker 1: a cup. It's a lot of money. Kind of blew

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Speaker 1: me away. And Kate, that's not really love the kids

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Speaker 1: to participate, Yes, and we do, or I'll say that

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Speaker 1: Kate does because she went ahead and purchase a single cup.

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Speaker 1: You were over there, arms crossed, well and she frowned,

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Speaker 1: which I was. You know, they had the hot chocolate

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Speaker 1: when I came up from work and they were explaining

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Speaker 1: They're like, oh yeah, we got this, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, how much? Really? Charged, and she told me

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Speaker 1: I couldn't believe it, and so like what I told her,

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Speaker 1: I was like, why didn't you negotiate? Because I felt

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Speaker 1: like this was a perfect opportunity to teach him another lesson. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, just to talk about it a little bit

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Speaker 1: and not just be like okay, whatever you say, but

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Speaker 1: literally to push back a little bit, and you don't

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Speaker 1: have to be a jerk about it, right, Like you

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Speaker 1: can be like, oh man, three dollars, that's a really

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Speaker 1: expensive a couple of hot chocolate. How about I'd like

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Speaker 1: to retire Sunday kids about three cups for five dollars, right,

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Speaker 1: or or even just been like okay, what about how

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Speaker 1: about one dollar? Just just to start the conversation. I

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Speaker 1: think there's a way that you can have that conversation.

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Speaker 1: But Kate kind of like rolled her eyes at me

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Speaker 1: and just like, of course this is what you would say.

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Speaker 1: But do I mean, what would you have done in

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Speaker 1: that situation? Do you feel like that that's frugal or

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Speaker 1: is that a cheap move to negotiate? What's from patented

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Speaker 1: reaction to you? Now, by the way, it's just eyes roll,

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Speaker 1: which I get eye roll, But yeah, what's your tike, though,

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Speaker 1: I think it's okay to be like, hey, guys, what

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Speaker 1: if we did yeah, yeah, three for six bucks or

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Speaker 1: something like that, Like, well, we're gonna go for volume here.

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Speaker 1: You guys want to be the costco of hot chocolate.

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Speaker 1: That's how that's how you gotta roll. But yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean you probably they're there. It depends on how much

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Speaker 1: hard work they put into it and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: And if there's like a peppermint stick coming out of

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Speaker 1: it and all that jazz, it's like it's I would

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Speaker 1: just pay them money if you're interested, or keep walking

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Speaker 1: if you're not. Maybe I wasn't there to experience all

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Speaker 1: the decor that they poured, Like yeah, maybe I just

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Speaker 1: pictured a table with like some hot chocolate that's not

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Speaker 1: so hot. But it just to me seemed like a lesson,

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Speaker 1: like not only for like those kids to learn how

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Speaker 1: to talk to an adult about the price of something,

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Speaker 1: but even for our kids, right like for them to

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Speaker 1: to witness a little bit of negotiation, for them to

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Speaker 1: understand the value of a dollar. I felt that was

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Speaker 1: a massive opportunity for them just to learn firsthand, like

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Speaker 1: a real life interaction. Um And so I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I think there's a way to do it, as long

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Speaker 1: as you're not a jerk about it, right, Like I'm

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Speaker 1: not talking about being all my you know, scrooge like

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Speaker 1: and being like are you kidding and like over training

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Speaker 1: to take workhouses. Yeah. I think I want to incentivize

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Speaker 1: young entrepreneurship too, And I think if it gets kids excited,

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Speaker 1: I'm willing to fork over extra money, even if it

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Speaker 1: feels like it's overcharging, because man, what a good experience.

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Speaker 1: The negotiation can be a good experience too, if you're

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Speaker 1: doing it in a lighthearted and friendly way. But that

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Speaker 1: was my take. Yeah, But I also think that paying

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Speaker 1: and paying the money buying the hot chocolate, by supporting

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Speaker 1: these kids in their little entrepreneurs want to encourage them

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Speaker 1: for sure, Yeah, is good, And you don't want to

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Speaker 1: deflate them by being like, well, guys, did you miss

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Speaker 1: the pricing class that was second grade down last month?

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Speaker 1: Did you miss the numbers? Yeah? I guess I just

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Speaker 1: worry that we're over encouraging these kids because we also

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Speaker 1: bought some expence of bracelets last like a few months

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Speaker 1: as well, and they I don't know, maybe they keep

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Speaker 1: coming back to the West and they keep coming to

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Speaker 1: your house for some reason, because you keep buying them.

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Speaker 1: Everyone else knows to say no, But it's like written

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Speaker 1: across our forehead except for you. All right, well, I

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Speaker 1: like it, and if you don't have the money to

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Speaker 1: pay for it, then they don't. But either way, encouraging

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Speaker 1: kids in these pursuits is a good thing. That should

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Speaker 1: be the bigger lesson. And if they're your kids, encourage

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Speaker 1: them to do the same and steal all your neighbors

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Speaker 1: money and so they can buy their own stuff. It's

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Speaker 1: just one giant cycle, what's right, Or at least let

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Speaker 1: me get some like exactly? All right, let's mention the

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Speaker 1: beer we're having on the episode today. This one is

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Speaker 1: called Mile High Salute. It is a Checha sour, which

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Speaker 1: I've never heard of this time before. But we will

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Speaker 1: give our thoughts on this one at the end of

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Speaker 1: the episode. This one is by Mutation, brewing right around

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Speaker 1: the corner from us where we live. But Matt, let's

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Speaker 1: get onto it. Let's move on to the topic at hand,

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Speaker 1: pursuing happiness in all the wrong ways. And of course,

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Speaker 1: we hope all of our listeners had a great Christmas.

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Speaker 1: This is our second episodes since Christmas so um, we

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Speaker 1: we hope it was a good one for every one

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Speaker 1: that was super enjoyable. We're still very much in the

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Speaker 1: holiday spirit, of course, yes, hopefully you are as well. Well.

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Speaker 1: It's it's interesting to me when we were thinking of

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Speaker 1: this episode, it made me think of kind of the

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Speaker 1: joy that our kids have on their faces Christmas morning

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Speaker 1: when they run down faces copious presence under the tree,

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Speaker 1: and it was like a joy like they were beating

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Speaker 1: right and so thrilled to get to open these presents,

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Speaker 1: to get to tear them to shreds and see what

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Speaker 1: was inside. But uh, that joy that they have at

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Speaker 1: seven am, right when they're so thrilled to open up

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Speaker 1: everything under the tree, it doesn't look the same later

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Speaker 1: in the day, right, Uh. And I think that's a

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Speaker 1: story that's the same thing for adults and kids alike.

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Speaker 1: There's frequently like a post present let down that almost

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Speaker 1: all of us experience. You kind of come down from

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Speaker 1: that high for sure. Either there was something that we

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Speaker 1: wanted that we didn't get, or the gifts that we

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Speaker 1: did receive they're not quite as good as they looked

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Speaker 1: in TV, or there there's some assembly required and wait

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Speaker 1: a second, we forgot the battery, the batteries of the package. Exactly. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so very small, quick tangent. Did you ever have a

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Speaker 1: present as a kid that you did not receive that

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Speaker 1: you had all your Christmas hopes pinned too? I'm sure

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Speaker 1: I did. For me. It was the classic Hungry Hungry Hippos.

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Speaker 1: I think we may have talked about this on the

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Speaker 1: show Record is the South and the Yeah, I completely,

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Speaker 1: I totally have my heart set on that game because

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Speaker 1: the commercials were awesome. Those kids mash those levers of

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Speaker 1: the hippo gobble up on those marbles. But I don't

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Speaker 1: get it. And that's all my parents remember from that

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Speaker 1: Christmas was that disappointment. But there's no hungry hungry hippen.

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Speaker 1: Well it is. It's a good game, but it's not

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Speaker 1: as good as it looks on the commercials now right,

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Speaker 1: and disappointment yes, and in that vein right, the anticipation

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Speaker 1: of Christmas morning is almost always better than the payoff.

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Speaker 1: And and something close to the world's toys are owned

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Speaker 1: by three percent of the world's population, which is American children,

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Speaker 1: And so are we happier? Are our kids happier? Because

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Speaker 1: that's the case because they get this massive amount of

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Speaker 1: all the toys are created in the world. No, I

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Speaker 1: would say, not necessarily, and in fact, the opposite is

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Speaker 1: often true. Right, The same is often the case though

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Speaker 1: when it comes to amassing more wealth, there's this there's

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Speaker 1: a point of diminishing returns. And today on the show,

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about how happiness levels are affected

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Speaker 1: by your financial standing and how they aren't Deep dive

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Speaker 1: on happiness today on HTM. That's right, yeah, and of

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Speaker 1: course everyone probably are already knows this, but all the

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Speaker 1: money in the world is not going to make you happy.

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Speaker 1: Just like getting every single present on your list, how

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Speaker 1: that likely only brought you a fleeting sense of joy

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Speaker 1: doesn't last all that long. Uh. And so ultimately, like,

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Speaker 1: what it's going to take is some introspection, is going

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Speaker 1: to take some self examination to fully understand what it

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Speaker 1: is that will bring you fulfillment and happiness, not just

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Speaker 1: more money. Uh. And it might be honestly, it might

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Speaker 1: be a touch ironic coming from the guy as you

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Speaker 1: talk about money three times a week, right, Like earning,

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Speaker 1: earning money, saving investing money, these are all great things,

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Speaker 1: but it's also crucial to put money in its proper place.

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Speaker 1: And on the service. This is probably something that you

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Speaker 1: already know, right, But do you have a deeper understanding

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Speaker 1: of it? Uh? You might have the head knowledge, but

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Speaker 1: do you have the richer understanding that comes from experiencing

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Speaker 1: it and living it out. Because I think while many

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Speaker 1: of us would say, yeah, like, I totally agree with

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Speaker 1: that statement, right, like, more money, it's not gonna make

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Speaker 1: me happier, Well, we actually end up living our lives

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Speaker 1: in ways that contradict that statement. And the reality is

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Speaker 1: that it's often not just the pursuit of money that

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Speaker 1: we think will make us happy, but it's the things

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Speaker 1: that money can afford us. I just mentioned Scrooge, but

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Speaker 1: you know, chances are you probably saw some version of

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Speaker 1: the Dickens classic Christmas Carol. There's a lot of good ones,

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Speaker 1: bad ones. But I wonder if a lot of folks

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Speaker 1: I thought about the I thought about this last time

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Speaker 1: I watched it, because like Scrooge was obsessed with money, right,

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Speaker 1: just like that the thing in and of itself. And

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Speaker 1: I think today oftentimes we are drawn not to money itself,

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Speaker 1: but the things that money can afford us. That the

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Speaker 1: things that money can can buy us, and we think

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Speaker 1: that it almost feels unrelatable to picture somebody who's just

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Speaker 1: like stacking wads of buy a lambo with it in

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Speaker 1: exactly it's um, but they didn't have those kind of things.

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Speaker 1: Wait way back then, you're right, Yeah, it's it's the

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Speaker 1: it's the thinking that shopping incessantly. We've just gotten more

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Speaker 1: sophisticated with how it is that we are misled, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: it's sneaky, it's pernicious. But we're often tricked into thinking

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Speaker 1: that there's just a variety of things that will make

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Speaker 1: us happy. It's a false hope. And so we're going

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Speaker 1: to dive into a lot of some of those different

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Speaker 1: things that we think, uh, don't actually bring about happiness,

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Speaker 1: and we'll make sure to end the episode talking about

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Speaker 1: the right way to pursue happiness as well, and kind

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Speaker 1: of how we think about money has a lot to

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Speaker 1: do with it. But let's get into let's talk about maybe, um,

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Speaker 1: what about like an unexpected windfall mat like how happy

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Speaker 1: would it make you? Do you think if you randomly

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Speaker 1: had ten tho dollars deposited into your accounts tomorrow? No

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Speaker 1: questions asked that you could put towards the lamb, but

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Speaker 1: those strings attached that you can put towards a lambar

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Speaker 1: or whatever you wanted. Like, do you think that would

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Speaker 1: move the needle for you? Yeah? I mean if you

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Speaker 1: said you want ten thousand bucks and be like sure,

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Speaker 1: you be like what, I'll take it. It's like it's

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Speaker 1: like playing a monopoly and it's like bank error in

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Speaker 1: your favor collector hundred dollars or something like that, and

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Speaker 1: you're like, what amazing? Like to get all about it?

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Speaker 1: Just money gifted to you in that way. It would

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Speaker 1: put a smile on your face. I think would put

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Speaker 1: a smile on mine as well. Well. Uh, the thing is,

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Speaker 1: it would, but it wouldn't do it for very long.

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Speaker 1: And that's because the TED, the TED organization of Ted

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Speaker 1: Talk Fame, ran an experiment based on ten thousand dollar

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Speaker 1: donations to folks who lived in low income countries and

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Speaker 1: others who lived in high income locations. And what did

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Speaker 1: they find, Matt, Well, they found that the folks who

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Speaker 1: had lower salaries, the ones in countries like Brazil, Indonesia,

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Speaker 1: and Kenya, gained a lot more happiness than folks who

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Speaker 1: lived in renter countries. That was, their their happiness was

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Speaker 1: even more long lasting. And that's not terribly shocking. Uh.

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Speaker 1: If you're on the earlier side of your wealth building journey,

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Speaker 1: a ten thousand dollar lumps some could help jump start

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Speaker 1: your progress a whole lot helping you, like acts a

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Speaker 1: big chunk of student loans that have been hanging out

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Speaker 1: in your life, or allowing you to max out a

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Speaker 1: roth ira for the first time ever. Maybe that's been

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Speaker 1: a goal for years, and it's like, boom, this lump

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Speaker 1: some money fell into my lap. Now I can do

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Speaker 1: it in one fell swoop. That allows you to, you know,

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Speaker 1: get the compounding return started earlier than most folks get to,

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Speaker 1: which of course is a big win. But for folks

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Speaker 1: are further along in their wealth building journey, it's helpful.

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Speaker 1: It's a helpful study to consider because as you move

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Speaker 1: up the money gears, it certainly seems like you should

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Speaker 1: be putting less and less emphasis on your net worth

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Speaker 1: from a happiness standpoint, and so a windfall, yeah it

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Speaker 1: might be nice, but even a lump sum of cash

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Speaker 1: has diminishing returns rather quickly. Yeah, you know, And it's

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Speaker 1: it's not like you want to start making bad money

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Speaker 1: decisions on purpose to curb the growth of your money.

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Speaker 1: Like it's taking a world one k loan. It'start giving

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Speaker 1: it all the way. Let me get hit with that

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Speaker 1: tempercent penalty, right, It's more about just rethinking the role

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Speaker 1: of money in your life. And a Warton study actually

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Speaker 1: from last year that gave some helpful new insights because

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Speaker 1: they found that a higher income is linked to increase happiness,

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Speaker 1: but largely because of the increased control that you then

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Speaker 1: have over everyday decisions in your life. Basically just allows

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Speaker 1: for greater autonomy. And so it seems to me that

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Speaker 1: more money is a better predictor of maybe emotions than

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Speaker 1: of actual happiness because obviously, when you don't have enough money,

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Speaker 1: like it's it's hard not to like acutely feel that

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Speaker 1: need right if you can't pay the bills um. But like,

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Speaker 1: basically money it helps solve quite a few problems for

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Speaker 1: folks in that lower income space, at least until a

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Speaker 1: certain point. Traditionally that's that seventy five dollar mark by

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Speaker 1: Nobel researchers and economists uh Daniel Koneman. Thanks to inflation,

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Speaker 1: it might be more like eighty thou dollars. Now I

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Speaker 1: don't know, maybe, but it's also important to note though

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Speaker 1: that we are living in the richest country in the

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Speaker 1: history of the world, and it's easy to see that

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Speaker 1: it's often just a band aid and not a permanent

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Speaker 1: fix for many folks. And what's needed in reality is

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Speaker 1: just a deeper look not only at their money, but

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Speaker 1: how it is they pursue other things in life, and

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Speaker 1: how it is that they spend their time. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and how do we know that we're so rich? Well,

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Speaker 1: statistics for one, but yeah, the numbers just just just

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Speaker 1: prove it. Right. When you look at the US is

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Speaker 1: very very rich, exactly. Yeah, when you look at overall

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Speaker 1: net worth and incomes and an opportunity any we are

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Speaker 1: country ranks super high on so many different metrics, and

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Speaker 1: so we definitely have an abundance of material wealth in

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Speaker 1: this country. The toy stat I referenced earlier, it's just

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Speaker 1: another pointer to the fact that we have tons of

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Speaker 1: money right floating around in this country. Of the world's

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Speaker 1: toys to three percent of the world's population, there's a

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Speaker 1: big discrepancy there. But the self care trend, I would say,

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Speaker 1: gives us another window into just how prosperous we've become.

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Speaker 1: And we're hoping that the Matt and I at least

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Speaker 1: we're hoping that the self care trend calms down a

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Speaker 1: little bit, because it's often it's not making us happier,

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Speaker 1: and it's costing us big money. At the same time.

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Speaker 1: There's a recent episode actually of the Money with Katie

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Speaker 1: podcast We Think She's Awesome. She talked about how spending

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Speaker 1: less on self care and taking less time to pursue

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Speaker 1: a beauty regimen actually helped her to feel more empowered,

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Speaker 1: which I thought was cool. I appreciated her thoughts on that,

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Speaker 1: and then at the same time, I read an article

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Speaker 1: in Vox which came to a similar conclusion. The article

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Speaker 1: was titled I used all the best stuff for a

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Speaker 1: week and it nearly broke me. And what this author

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Speaker 1: what she seemed to detail was an increased bent towards perfectionism. Uh.

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Speaker 1: We would call it the Didero effect, right where everything

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Speaker 1: else around you starts to look a little shabby in

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Speaker 1: line to some of these new items you've brought into

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Speaker 1: your life. And it was interesting to see Matt that

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Speaker 1: her experiment of having the nicest, newest, coolest, instagram worthy

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Speaker 1: stuff for a month actually led her to less happiness

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Speaker 1: and worst social relationships. Um, and I think that's a

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Speaker 1: real problem that we face when we try to make

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Speaker 1: ourselves feel better through retail therapy and the stepped up

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Speaker 1: self care edgemen right, that we put too much of

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Speaker 1: a focus on things less of a focus on the

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Speaker 1: things that actually matter, and and that's in large part

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Speaker 1: where we fall short. Yeah, I mean, there's nothing wrong

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Speaker 1: with like a nice bottle of face serum right from

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Speaker 1: the man himself with oils or something like that, But

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Speaker 1: it can easily become a slippery slip, right, like, because

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Speaker 1: first it's beauty products, it's self care. Next it's upgrading

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Speaker 1: your professional wardrobe, you know, but with the excuse that

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Speaker 1: maybe you're doing it for your rear, this is an investment,

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Speaker 1: or you're doing it just because you deserve it. Like

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Speaker 1: we would say that self care that will actually translate

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Speaker 1: to higher levels of well being is going to be

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Speaker 1: less consumption based, Like, for instance, a walk in the

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Speaker 1: woods to distress a proper amount of sleep sounds like

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Speaker 1: maybe the best kind of self care that's out there,

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Speaker 1: instead of staying up to midnight scrolling Instagram to the

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Speaker 1: bed on time, that direct to consumer model that these

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Speaker 1: companies have gotten so good at. But these more like

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Speaker 1: less money focused, less consumption based ways to increase your

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Speaker 1: well being are going to move the needle a whole

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Speaker 1: lot more than a a new purse or fancy new

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Speaker 1: bed sheets or something like that, because like many Americans

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Speaker 1: have just come to buy into the self care ethic

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Speaker 1: to the point that it's just costing the money that

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Speaker 1: they don't have, and it's not doing much on the

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Speaker 1: on the happiness front either, And many times it's creating

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Speaker 1: the opposite effect, right, Like remember the control an autonomy

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Speaker 1: point from earlier on from that study, the more money

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Speaker 1: you spend on self care, the more your bank account

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Speaker 1: is going to shrink. Uh, And with that your autonomy

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Speaker 1: is shrinking as well. And something that's important to keep

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Speaker 1: in mind. We think that we're purchasing happiness, but instead

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Speaker 1: we're purchasing our way further into debt. And you're also

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Speaker 1: creating a habit that's almost insatiable because there is no

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Speaker 1: end to the lust for more goods or more stuff.

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Speaker 1: And so yeah, if you kind of start to go

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Speaker 1: down this path, you'll find that it's really hard to

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Speaker 1: recognize when you're going overboard, and it's hard to see

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Speaker 1: that wait a second, it feels like I'm getting momentary

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Speaker 1: bursts of happiness as I pursue this route, but in

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Speaker 1: the end you're actually left unhappier. But it's just hard

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Speaker 1: to point a finger on it, and so you keep

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Speaker 1: going down it until you've gone quite a ways. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you have left some of your autonomy kind of

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Speaker 1: behind because you don't have as much financial breathing room.

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Speaker 1: We're also not saying, by the way that our bodies

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Speaker 1: don't matter, and that we would say, you know, taking

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Speaker 1: time to work out as clutch that self care you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: it's not. It's not the worst thing not to buy

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Speaker 1: a bottle of face serum if that's your thing. I

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Speaker 1: don't really have any sort of facial regiment. My wife

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Speaker 1: says I should probably adopt one, but I don't even

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Speaker 1: know what that means or looks like. I don't. I

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Speaker 1: don't either. Earlier this year, though, I started wearing a

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Speaker 1: very small amount of cologn though, because I was just like,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I want to have a smell, and

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Speaker 1: so that's something I do know. It's okay to splurge

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Speaker 1: just a little bit. You know, the brute smells good

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Speaker 1: on you. I'm a big fan of route. There's something

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Speaker 1: about smelling like your grandpa that I feel like residents

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Speaker 1: with millennials, do you get Yes, exactly. There's nothing wrong

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Speaker 1: with like getting massage every once in a while, or

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Speaker 1: trying to eat healthier and spending more money on more

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Speaker 1: expensive organic foods things like that. That's totally fine. Taking

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Speaker 1: care of yourself is good. Like we we want to

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Speaker 1: push you in that direction, but just don't buy into

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Speaker 1: the treatoself self care mantra that that suddenly insinuates that

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Speaker 1: by purchasing fancier products, you're gonna be a better you.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna be a happiness happier person. Your happiness levels

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Speaker 1: so you're gonna go off the charts. That that is

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Speaker 1: just marketing, and it's marketing. That sounds good, right. We

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Speaker 1: want to buy into it because we want that feeling.

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Speaker 1: But the truth is the feeling is fleeting, and it

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Speaker 1: actually often ends up leading to lower levels of overall happiness.

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Speaker 1: So how else, maybe, are we duped by some of

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Speaker 1: these marketing techniques? How how else are we lead to

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Speaker 1: consider buying happiness in our lives? Well, they're there are

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Speaker 1: a couple major ways in which we fork over a

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Speaker 1: lot of money and in the thought, in the hope

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Speaker 1: that it's going to make us happier. Matt, Let's detail

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Speaker 1: a couple more and we'll get to those right after this.

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Speaker 1: All right, man, we are back from the break and dude,

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Speaker 1: we were just talking about how self care. How it's

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Speaker 1: it's kind of having its moment, right, but essentially like

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Speaker 1: like in reality, it's just consumerism, right, It's just a

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Speaker 1: new spin on an old story. But continuing this thread

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Speaker 1: of buying stuff homeownership that might be the ultimate form

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Speaker 1: of like potentially mindless consumptions, going straight to the sacred count.

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Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, I mean because like a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: they talk about buying a home as an investment um

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Speaker 1: but there's a lot less truth to it than most

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Speaker 1: people think. In fact is there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: folks out there for whom renting makes the most sense,

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Speaker 1: but they're still drawn to buying their first home like

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Speaker 1: a moth drawn towards the light. Uh. And also because

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Speaker 1: it's just such an emotional purchase. This is a category

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00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,200
Speaker 1: that I think folks they often tend to stretch their

428
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,840
Speaker 1: budget on the term house poor. It was invented for

429
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:27,360
Speaker 1: a reason. There are a lot of folks who are

430
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:31,480
Speaker 1: house poor. But does that new home actually make us happy. Well,

431
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,000
Speaker 1: we would argue that not nearly as much as we're

432
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,119
Speaker 1: hoping it will. A recent study found that, similar to

433
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,160
Speaker 1: the ten thousand dollar cash and fusion that you mentioned,

434
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 1: Joel Well, buying a new home only produces a short

435
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,200
Speaker 1: term happiness boost. It's likely for multiple reasons, but it's

436
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,800
Speaker 1: also because there are walls to paint, there are toilets

437
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,520
Speaker 1: to fix, right, things like that, taxes to be paid.

438
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 1: Maybe you realize the closing attorney didn't include waste management

439
00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:58,680
Speaker 1: in your mortgage, and you're like, what we gotta pay

440
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:00,560
Speaker 1: for trash? Now? How is that not something thing that's

441
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,800
Speaker 1: included in my mortgage? If you're in City of Atlanta,

442
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,840
Speaker 1: that's that's like extra bucks a year or something like that,

443
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,239
Speaker 1: a lot of money. And on tope of that, if

444
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,199
Speaker 1: we've overspent, you know, that mortgage payment like it's just

445
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,960
Speaker 1: hanging over ahead for the next thirty years and it's

446
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,680
Speaker 1: likely only going to be something that we see increase

447
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,840
Speaker 1: as the property taxes also increase. Sure, yeah, so it's

448
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:22,880
Speaker 1: not the buying a home is bad, of course, right,

449
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,280
Speaker 1: we met you and I own homes, we own rental properties.

450
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,440
Speaker 1: We're not we own multiple homes. We're not against home ownership,

451
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,399
Speaker 1: but it's just that we have often in our culture,

452
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,720
Speaker 1: we've inflated this purchase in our minds, thinking that that

453
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 1: we're gonna get long lasting happiness, which tends not to materialize,

454
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 1: like this home is going to make me happy, right,

455
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 1: it's but what you know, what is it? They say,

456
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 1: matt home is where the heart is, right, and so

457
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,199
Speaker 1: it's not just the walls in the structure, and this

458
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,640
Speaker 1: sounds that sounds really lame. I'm sorry, but you're gonna

459
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:53,119
Speaker 1: quot the magnetic zero song. I don't know. I don't know. Oh,

460
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 1: that's wherever I'm with you. That's true, that's good. Yeah, No,

461
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 1: there's that that people who are inside of it ten

462
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 1: years ago, I guess it. But we just tend to

463
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 1: think like, oh man, this location and this this particular home,

464
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 1: that it is going to make me happy. And I'm

465
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 1: not gonna say that I haven't derived some satisfaction from

466
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 1: home own home ownership. I have, but the realities that

467
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,160
Speaker 1: could have rented a very similar home in a similar

468
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 1: location gotten a lot of the same vibes, and so

469
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 1: we just we overrank how happy it's going to make

470
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 1: us and the folks that ran that study you mentioned, Matt,

471
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 1: they boiled it down to this, They said, we aren't

472
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,679
Speaker 1: good at predicting what will make us happy. And I

473
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 1: thought that was profound for economists making, you know, writing

474
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,120
Speaker 1: a white paper. But for many millennials who are still

475
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 1: saving up for a down payment, they put home ownership

476
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 1: on this pedestal and they I think they think it's

477
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 1: going to solve some of their problems, right, or maybe

478
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 1: a lot of their problems, that that once I get

479
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 1: this thing, it's going to do something that nothing else

480
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 1: could do for me. And owning a home can be

481
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 1: a great thing for individuals, for families, providing something that

482
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,679
Speaker 1: is I will say, more than just a roof of

483
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 1: your head, right, Like for for many Americans, their home

484
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 1: does end up becoming one of the largest assets. That's

485
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,879
Speaker 1: not what we want to be the case, but that

486
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 1: is the reality for a lot of folks that I

487
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 1: can going to home for ten years or something like that,

488
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 1: and you just like you barely invest in the market

489
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,920
Speaker 1: because you're banking on the fact that your home is appreciating.

490
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 1: That's you're big. Like that does become your biggest asset

491
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: because you haven't invested enough in other areas also, I

492
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,159
Speaker 1: would say it's fun in a lot of ways to

493
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 1: own your own place, like the customization right that you

494
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 1: can that you can have like paint, paint the walls

495
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 1: whatever color you want. There's no landlord to tell you no, no, no, sorry,

496
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 1: hot pinks off limits. There's also no landlord to say, hey, actually, um,

497
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 1: I'm selling this property. And so you're gonna need to

498
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: move anything like that. Like you can stability there as

499
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 1: long as you can pay that mortgage, you can stay.

500
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 1: But in no way is that this continual happiness producer,

501
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 1: and it can actually have the opposite effect if it

502
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,479
Speaker 1: becomes a massive drag on your monthly budget. And so

503
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 1: it's important to go into home ownership with the right mindset.

504
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: Some of these bigger things that we think are financially

505
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: intelligent and we're banking on the fact that they're also

506
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: going to make us like happier people, Well, the reality

507
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: is often a lot different, and that for a lot

508
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 1: of folks, homeownership can become more of a financial drag

509
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 1: and a happiness drag. That's right, man. We pin too

510
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,439
Speaker 1: many of our hopes, I think, on homeownership, and so

511
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 1: far we've talked about things that you can buy, right,

512
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: whether it's beauty products, self care items, or services. I

513
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 1: guess we've talked about buying homes. Let's let's talk about

514
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: maybe a different arena, uh, somewhere else that we seek

515
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: to find happiness, and that's in the work that we perform. Uh.

516
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: And so I'll start this out by saying, like, we've

517
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 1: got a lot of friends in the Fire community, right,

518
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 1: which is the financial independence retire early community. And it

519
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,959
Speaker 1: seems that a decent swath of those folks that they

520
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: have a negative view of work, right, like where they're

521
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: trying to escape the rat race. They're trying to escape

522
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 1: the nine to five. And really a large reason why

523
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,719
Speaker 1: the Fire movement was able to gain steam, why they

524
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: were able to gain traction at over the past decade,

525
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: was because just because it was a rejection of the

526
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 1: achievement based, status pursuing view of work, where all your

527
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 1: worth is determined by your title or by the letters

528
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 1: that come after your name because of the education that

529
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:15,679
Speaker 1: you've achieved. There's a lot of good in that, right,

530
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: because it's like, who wants to be based on their

531
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: value to be based on that mostly or solely exactly. Yeah,

532
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: But the thing is like that pendulum. It was pretty

533
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 1: far to one side, right, and so it swung all

534
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: the way over to the other end of the spectrum

535
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: in an over correction. But of course we like to

536
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 1: take a more nuanced approach to the work that we perform.

537
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 1: And you know, we think that neither the rejection nor

538
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 1: the blind embrace of work will yield us the most happiness. Right, Like,

539
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,919
Speaker 1: of course work is important. We spend a lot of

540
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 1: our waking hours at work, So not hating your job

541
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 1: would be great. Uh. The ability to see the value

542
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 1: that you're bringing into the world, how you're making it

543
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,199
Speaker 1: a better place. That is an important part of a

544
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: purposeful life for sure. But we also don't want you

545
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,239
Speaker 1: to be defined by your job, by what it is

546
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: that you do. Yeah, but we've also I think we've

547
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 1: pushed a popular cultural myth of the fact that your

548
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 1: work is supposed to make you happy and you should

549
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: enjoy what you do every day, so your passionate. Yeah.

550
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 1: That that and that has I think set up a

551
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,880
Speaker 1: lot of people for dissatisfaction. They have thought that there

552
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 1: nine to five should be something where it's like, I

553
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: love the people I work with and the work I do,

554
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 1: And yeah, and I get paid a ton, right, giving

555
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 1: me tons of free time to do whatever I like

556
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: and browse on Instagram whenever I want to or whatever.

557
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: But like, the truth is that almost nobody has that

558
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 1: job like and and even for people who enjoy the

559
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: work they do one, it doesn't mean that they naturally

560
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: gravitated towards towards it to begin with. There's a lot

561
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 1: of people who find themselves in a job and they're like,

562
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: they find the value in it, even if it's not

563
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: something they intentionally sought out. And so it's it's really

564
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: interesting to see how some people end up massively happy

565
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: in work that they didn't didn't necessarily think was going

566
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: to make them happy. I think so much of it

567
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: comes down to a mindset and and sometimes on top

568
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 1: of it, if your work is solid and it allows

569
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: you enough money to pay the bills and to have

570
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: enough free time, like, you don't have to love your job.

571
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: You can love all the other stuff outside of your job.

572
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: But the reality is, like with million Americans, like, not

573
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: every single one of us is going to absolutely love

574
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: what we do every day. And even when you do

575
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 1: like your job, it doesn't mean that every single day

576
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: is like the best thing ever, right, and Matt, we

577
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 1: like what we do here. We get to get to

578
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 1: work with your best boody, get to drink mirror, get

579
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: to talk about stuff that matters to us. That that

580
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: is a really good thing and it's taken us a

581
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: lot of years to get to this point. Even still,

582
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that every single day we come in

583
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: here with a smile on our faces. Maybe we should,

584
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 1: maybe we should, but like, that's just not how it works,

585
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,479
Speaker 1: because there's business stuff to get done, and so not

586
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: every day is like this walk in the park, even

587
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: when you like what you do. And that's exactly that's

588
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 1: important to mention to you honestly, Like the way you're

589
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: talking about it, it kind of makes me think of relationships, right,

590
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: And it's easy to fall into love, right, but what

591
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 1: that is typically it's just infatuation. That's not true love.

592
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: What true love is and committing to a long term

593
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: relationship is working hard at something. Of course, you're this

594
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: is someone who you're attracted to, that you're drawn to,

595
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: that you maybe want to spend the rest of your

596
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 1: of your life with, you have a lot in common with, hopefully,

597
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 1: and yeah, but you enjoy the way their mind work.

598
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean that, like you said, with work,

599
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: that it's going to be rainbows and butterflies all the time.

600
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: And sometimes that is what makes the relationship stronger over time,

601
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: is the fact that, like you had hurdles, that you

602
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 1: have had difficulties, and then it's like, wait a second,

603
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: look at what we've come through together, and that makes

604
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: the love even better, even richer. Exactly. Yeah, So while

605
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: we're talking about relationships, I think that's another one that's

606
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: important to tackle as well, because I think a lot

607
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: of people also pin their happiness on relationship. You know,

608
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: the belief that relationships will make you happy. It's it's

609
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: fairly ubiquitous, but it is also incredibly flawed. Why else

610
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: what over forty four million folks in the U s

611
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: Hop over to dating apps but to find someone who's

612
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,479
Speaker 1: gonna make them happy. Of course, that's why these apps crush, uh,

613
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: And there are so many folks on there, it's something

614
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: like three fifty million globally. But the thing is, the

615
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: research confirms this behavior as well, because, according to the

616
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: Harvard Study of Adult Development, the biggest predictor of happiness

617
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: are stable relationships, especially long term romantic relationships. Uh, and

618
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: not only that, you know, there's plenty of studies and

619
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: research out there that have shown that satisfying relationships lead

620
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: to better health. It leads to people living longer as well.

621
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: And so why this sort of sounds like this is

622
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: a slam dunk argument to go out and find true love.

623
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: But it would be a massive mistake to think that

624
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 1: this alone is going to bring about lasting happiness. Like

625
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: you said, with finding a job that you love, it's

626
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: not about necessarily finding a job that you love, as

627
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: opposed to maybe creating a job that you that you

628
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: love and finding the things about it that you love

629
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: and being the kind of person who can enjoy their

630
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: work even if it's not the ideal scenario exactly, dude. Yeah,

631
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: and of course we we all know if folks who

632
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: aren't actually married, right, who don't have a partner or

633
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: a significant other, and they're out there uh quite happy,

634
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: they're living their best lives. So it's not completely dependent

635
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: on finding somebody else in order to have happiness for sure. Yeah,

636
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: that there is no it's it's the partner is not

637
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: going to solve all the things that ails you. And

638
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: if you think they are, and if that's what you're

639
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: looking for, you're actually probably gonna make them unhappy in

640
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: your question for happiness, like both of you will end

641
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: up placing too much on that relationship. You're putting too

642
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: much on their shoulder. You're asking you to do something

643
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: that it can't do. You're asking a person to do

644
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: something that they can't do. Fulfill me right now, well

645
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: and all, the likelihood of those singles being happy has

646
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: a lot to do with other important relationships in their

647
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: lives as well, Matt, like those with friends and family.

648
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: And so you only need to look as far as

649
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: the Transformation on book the Top five Regrets of the

650
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: Dying to see this. Interestingly, three of those regrets, three

651
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: of them have more to do with self actualization, but

652
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: the other two are about working less and pursuing friendships more.

653
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: And especially, you know, given how much time is being

654
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: spent alone these days, there were recent statistics and their

655
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: mind blowing. I mean, I think we're all tired of

656
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: hearing the word pandemic at this point, but there is

657
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: basically a pandemic of loneliness, and people feel more on

658
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: their own, they feel more disconnected from the people around

659
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: them in their community. From friends and family than ever before,

660
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: So folks run the risk of having more relational regrets

661
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: at the end of the of their lives than even

662
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: ten twenty years ago. We're often choosing what feels like

663
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: real interactions on social media over actual, real conversations and

664
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 1: time together. And those interactions on social media they feel,

665
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: they seem like they're going to be real, but they

666
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 1: don't provide nearly the same happiness benefit. Yeah, exactly, Like, yeah,

667
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: you might have like five followers on Instagram or five

668
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: thousand friends on Facebook, but how many of those relationships

669
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: actually have depth and actually have substance to them that

670
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: would lead to like like meaningful fulfillment. Yeah, your boy

671
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: Christiano Ronaldo has like five million Instagram followers and how

672
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: many How of those followers does he have deep connections with?

673
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: None of them? Right or almost none of them? And

674
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: there is something to be said about that. It's like,

675
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: at what point does that follower count or do those

676
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: online interactions matter? And I would say they don't have

677
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: much influence for the most part over are happiness, and

678
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 1: in fact, because we spend so much time doing them,

679
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: it's often having the opposite effect. And Neil Hilborn he

680
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: once said, I'm not saying you'll find meaning the meaning

681
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: of life in other people. He said, I'm saying other

682
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: people are the life to which you provide meaning to.

683
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: And I think that's really profound to think. When we

684
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: stopped looking to find meaning in other people in the

685
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: relationships around us, and we seek to provide meaning instead

686
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: to the people around us, that's when our happiness levels

687
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: are going to go up and our deeper sense of

688
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: purpose is going to be felt. Exactly if you look

689
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: at it through like the consumption production model, it has

690
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: more to do with pouring into other people's lives, and

691
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: hopefully you have people who are doing that around you

692
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: as well, who are pouring into your life. Like it

693
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: kind of comes down to again when we're talking about

694
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: social media, it comes down to like quality over quantity, right,

695
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: And while you might have hundreds or thousands or hundreds

696
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: of millions if you're a soccer superstar. By the way,

697
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 1: you know, I'm a more of a messy guy Fernaldo Personally,

698
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: I thought you were. He's awesome. I love him, But

699
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: the quality of your relationships. Relationships matter a ton because obviously,

700
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: if you have somebody in your life, whether it's a

701
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: friend or certainly a partner, and if it's a bad relationship,

702
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: if it's a toxic relationship, you're going to see the

703
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 1: opposite of happiness. Right, Like, you're gonna you're gonna have

704
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: increased stress levels, your your health probably is going to

705
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 1: be worse. I guess you could take it to its

706
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: ultimate conclusion, and maybe there's research that shows that you're

707
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: not gonna live as long. Basically, all the opposite things

708
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: that fulfilling relationships provide poor quality or even toxic relationships,

709
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: I've got to think of the opposite. Yeah, well, so

710
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: I think the basic formula probably for greater relational happiness

711
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: is to spend less time alone, spend more time with

712
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: the people that matter to you, and then act as

713
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: though you are actively seeking to make them happier. Right.

714
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: And the more and the more you seek to do that,

715
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 1: the more you're pouring into those relationships in a way

716
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: that benefits the other party, the more your happiness is

717
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 1: going to be impacted, And the more they're gonna be

718
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 1: for you when it counts to Like, the more you're

719
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: gonna have people around you when hard things happen, and

720
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: like you need those friendships to support you then in

721
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 1: lean times that you might have. That's right, man, I

722
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: could not agree more. That's certainly a way to increase

723
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 1: the amount of happiness, uh, and some of the satisfaction

724
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: that we're able to garner from the different relationships in

725
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: our lives. But right after the break, we're gonna continue

726
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: along and we're actually going to dive into some more scientific,

727
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 1: some nerdier terms that we think will ultimately help you

728
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 1: to distinguish between some of the different types of happiness.

729
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: Like essentially, we're gonna boil it down to two different

730
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,399
Speaker 1: types of happiness, and we think that there is room

731
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: for both of these types of happiness in your life,

732
00:34:53,680 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 1: and we'll get to those right after this. Okay, we're

733
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 1: gonna keep this happiness conversation going. Mat This is making

734
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: me happy as we speak. The happiness train. I thought

735
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 1: you're gonna say, keeping on rolling. And by the way,

736
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: we have train tracks like real close do where we live.

737
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,720
Speaker 1: I saw the other day trains. There was a truck

738
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 1: on the train tracks, but it had like wheels, train wheels. Yeah,

739
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 1: he was doing repairs. It's so funny. Did you see

740
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 1: it on Saturday? Maybe it was so cool. I've never

741
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 1: seen one before I have. So I've seen those trucks

742
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 1: driving around town before, but I've never actually seen one

743
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 1: on the tracks where it had the steel little steel

744
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: wheels drop with the tires propelling it along. I thought

745
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 1: that was awesome, look like the cool thing of it.

746
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 1: I was like, totally agree. If I have a job

747
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: after podcasting, maybe it's repairing train guy the drive the

748
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 1: truck that that's allowed to drive on the train tracks.

749
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 1: And my son would be so jealous. Yeah, what I

750
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: saw it. I was like, West, you look, buddy, he's

751
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 1: just like train truck. I was like, that's what I

752
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: would call it too. But that is somehow the combination

753
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: of my two everything's dead. Well, let's talk about happiness, Matt,

754
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,359
Speaker 1: because it's amazing just how sometimes those little things can

755
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: make our kiddos so happy seeing a training things. I'm

756
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 1: always amazed seeing Christmas lights, even just a couple of

757
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 1: weeks ago, going to see some free Christmas lights with

758
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: my kids seeing them through their eyes, but their eyes

759
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 1: light up and it's like, this is the coolest thing.

760
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: It's not even something new, it's just an experience that

761
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 1: they get to enjoy. Um And But and I would say,

762
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: maybe we're getting a bit far along in the podcast

763
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: to define terms, but we've been talking about. What we've

764
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 1: been talking about here largely is the difference between hedonic

765
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 1: and you demonic happiness. Right, And you've you've heard us

766
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: talk about the hedonic treadmill before on the show Typic.

767
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 1: Listening for any period of time typically a bad thing.

768
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: It's where you spend a bunch of money and you

769
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: get that quick little sugar rush, that little, quick little

770
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 1: peak of happiness, but then you've got to keep you

771
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: return right back to your baseline of happiness, right, and

772
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 1: then if you don't don't actually get anywhere, continue Like

773
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: let's say you started a skincare regiment and your skins

774
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 1: looking at then you're like, I don't have the money

775
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:56,959
Speaker 1: to keep it up. Well, you're gonna be less happy

776
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: now because you started and it was taken away. But

777
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: hedonic happiness is centered around the bliss that momentary pleasures

778
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 1: can provide, while you donomic happiness has much more to

779
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: do with meaningful activities that boost our ability to self actualize,

780
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: which typically brings about more lasting happiness in our lives.

781
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: And so you might think that we're here to throw

782
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 1: all those forms of hedonic happiness out the window, you

783
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 1: might say, Joela Matte, they only want those those long

784
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: form ways to boost our happiness. But that is not

785
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 1: true actually, because remember what we're doing right now. Part

786
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 1: of the philosophy of our show even is that we

787
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,320
Speaker 1: drink a craft beer while we talk about money, because

788
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: we care about even some of those a few of

789
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: those hedonic abilities to enjoy happiness in here now, some

790
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,839
Speaker 1: of the tangible physical realities that do actually contribute our

791
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,760
Speaker 1: happiness if used properly, and if you're in a decently

792
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 1: stable personal finance position, well, we think it's important to

793
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: find the right balance. And even though we come down

794
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: pretty hard on mindless consumption, that doesn't mean that you

795
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: can't enjoy some of the nice easy life in the

796
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: here and now. And that's yeah, one of the things

797
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: that craft beer does force Matt I feel like in

798
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, that's right. Yeah. What's interesting is

799
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 1: that it seems that oftentimes when it comes to hedonic

800
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: happiness like that comes about by us spending money, whereas

801
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: when we're pursuing you demonic happiness, oftentimes we're spending time,

802
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,240
Speaker 1: which is the whole time and money parallel has always

803
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 1: been one that's that's fascinated me. So, like you're basically

804
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: talking about how we're not gonna we're not gonna like

805
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: drop the hammer on hedonic happiness, um, which would maybe

806
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: be a would that be a decent name for a band,

807
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: But we're also not going to glorify you demonic happiness, right, Like,

808
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: we're not going to say that that you should avoid

809
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: worldly pleasures in an attempt to live a mission driven

810
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: life of the time. And if you're not working towards

811
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: your goals every second of the day, then you're just

812
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: a worthless human being. That would be a puritanical existence

813
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: that we're not seeking to strive after. But you are

814
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: listening to an episode on happiness, and so you know,

815
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 1: we we do want to encourage you to find ways

816
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: to maybe like reasonably maximize both hedonic happiness and you

817
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 1: demonic happiness, and we think that that's going to be

818
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 1: the best way to to to leave a happier life overall.

819
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 1: You've got to find that balance and you've got to

820
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: figure out which aspects of each of those types of

821
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 1: happiness ring most true to you. Yeah, all right, So

822
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: how do you do that? Well? When it comes to

823
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 1: increasing the amount of hedonic happiness in your life. The

824
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 1: more consumption oriented version, well, the simple mechanism we'd recommend

825
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: is to budgets, or at the very least to track

826
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: your spending us right. And by doing this, you're gonna

827
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,879
Speaker 1: be able to see where your dollars are actually going.

828
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: You'll be forced to confront the actual facts on the ground,

829
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: and then you can simply ask yourself if you like

830
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: how you're spending your money, Like do I like spending

831
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: seven fifty dollars a month eating out? Or could I

832
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: spend that money in a way that's going to move

833
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: the needle in a bigger way for me? Like, you

834
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: know what, I didn't realize I was spending that much.

835
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: I thought I was spending three fifty a month eating out.

836
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: That sounds like more like what I should we spend.

837
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: I can dial it back because then that means I'm

838
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: gonna be able to take two more trips a year

839
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 1: with family or friends, like create better memories, and I

840
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: feel like, right now, it's just going down the toilet.

841
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: Or you might say, actually, no, I want to spend

842
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 1: a thousand dollars a month eating out, because these are

843
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: always relational experiences with people that are closest to Yeah, exactly,

844
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: and that's fine too, But so much of it's about

845
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 1: being intentional with your money rather than frittering it away.

846
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 1: And if you want to make the most use of

847
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 1: it to boost your hedonic happiness in the biggest way,

848
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: you're gonna want to track it. And then you're gonna

849
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 1: want to kind of hold that up to the light

850
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,800
Speaker 1: against your values and say, like, well, am I actually

851
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: spending my money the way that it's going to produce

852
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: the best results on the happiness front for me? Exactly?

853
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: And I like that you pointed out that it could

854
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,879
Speaker 1: also be somebody spending money on trips, because it's it's

855
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 1: not that all hedonic happiness should be derived from items,

856
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 1: because experiences, like you said, trips, vacations, going out to

857
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: eat with friends, those are oftentimes you know, most folks

858
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 1: consider those experiences, but those can also be a form

859
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 1: of hedonic happiness because typically you receive that that short

860
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: term high, right like you go out to eat, the

861
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: food is delicious, you are enjoying it in the moment.

862
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 1: Maybe there's great cocktails, you see some other friends, it's

863
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,320
Speaker 1: a fun time. But then after that, all that's gone

864
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 1: in the same way. And you know, some folks would

865
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 1: make an argument to say that, well, there's memories being formed,

866
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: and so there's are maybe a richer form of hedonic

867
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: happiness that's taking place. Maybe there's a little you demonic

868
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 1: bunts you're getting at the same time. Exactly, Yeah, but

869
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 1: I mean, oftentimes unmonic like it it comes down to

870
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: the like I guess, the work that you're performing. But essentially,

871
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 1: like you said, it's it's holding it up to the light,

872
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: it's aligning, it's it's finding alignment between what it is

873
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 1: that you want to spend your money on and how

874
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 1: it is that you're actually doing it. And so yeah,

875
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: we want you to boost your hedonic happiness by intentionally

876
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,359
Speaker 1: spending your own money, and then you're able to boost

877
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: your u demonic happiness by intentionally spending your time. You know,

878
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 1: like like our society, like us included, sometimes we we

879
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: tend to always use the term wealth to refer to money,

880
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: but you know, like they're all sorts of different ways

881
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: that we think you can be wealthy in this life, right,

882
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,240
Speaker 1: Like you can have relational wealth, you can have creative wealth.

883
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: Even just like you know, as we're talking about you

884
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,839
Speaker 1: demonic happiness just missional wealth that allows you to feel

885
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: like you're making a difference in the world, pindable wealth

886
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 1: of knowledge that comes from reading books and contending information

887
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 1: that that growth that's taking place gives you an internal richness,

888
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: right exactly. It's like essentially what we're talking about here,

889
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 1: all the different types of wealth that allow you to

890
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 1: self actualize. We're talking about mass Thow's hierarchy of needs,

891
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: and that is at the tippy top, and that is

892
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 1: I mean, it's kind of there's a reason that it's

893
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,399
Speaker 1: literally at the pinnacle of the of the actual trying

894
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 1: because you've gotta have all those other bases covered before

895
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: you can really think about that. And that's why you

896
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:46,439
Speaker 1: mentioned the s like reference earlier on Matt and how Yeah,

897
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: if you're making a year barely making ends meet, then

898
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 1: it's going to be hard to focus on some of

899
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 1: these other levels of happiness. So money does play a

900
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 1: role in your ability to pursue some of these other things.

901
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: The more money you have in the bank account, the

902
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: more it allows you to have some of this free time.

903
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: But the problem is a lot of us don't take

904
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 1: that when we have it, and so I don't know,

905
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: but it's still it's still a very functional thing to

906
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 1: talk about. But like, there's a reason why we have

907
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:15,359
Speaker 1: a show called How the Money, because we still think

908
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 1: it's really important, right, and especially given kind of the

909
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 1: the ability that we have in this country, which is,

910
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 1: like we said, one of the richest country in the

911
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 1: history of the world. We have more opportunity to maximize

912
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: our money, to make smart decisions, to buy ourselves, more

913
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 1: ability to do some of these things. And so I

914
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: guess someone might ask the question like, well, why do

915
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: you guys spend all your time your work lives essentially

916
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 1: dedicated to talking about money, And you know, we would say, well,

917
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 1: handling money, well is probably it's it's one of the

918
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: main tools in life that allows you to pursue other

919
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: things to be more importance. It allows you to actually

920
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: have more time thinking about that the unonomic happiness components,

921
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: and so many folks don't know the basics, right, which

922
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 1: is why we're on a mission. We're on a mission

923
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 1: to change that. But this is also why we don't

924
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 1: get super nerdy, incredibly technical with the with some of

925
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 1: these other deeper aspects of personal finance, because those don't

926
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 1: really matter all that much either. And you're talking about

927
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 1: the difference between doing the things spot on and then

928
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 1: spending an inordinate amount of time optimizing ticket an extra

929
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: three percent. Right, And so we want to redefine the

930
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: focus of money. We want to say, listen, these are

931
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: the things that really matter. We want you to get

932
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 1: these things right. We want you to handle money well

933
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,240
Speaker 1: because it impacts all these other areas of your life.

934
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 1: But it's also not the end all be all right,

935
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 1: and and that's that's that's exactly how we feel about money,

936
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,800
Speaker 1: is that it's a really important tool, but it's uh,

937
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: there's it also lacks a lot of things too when

938
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: it comes to how happy it makes us exactly. Yeah,

939
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: So money it's still gonna be the focus of our

940
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: show because we do think it's it's it really is

941
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: such a foundational tool. In January, we can change our

942
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: name to how to Happy, how to how to beer,

943
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 1: how to bike. These are all the topics we talk

944
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:58,240
Speaker 1: about the show. Okay, but let's let's get more practical

945
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,720
Speaker 1: with it, right. And so if budgeting and track you're spending,

946
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: if that allows you to reprioritize how you're spending your money, well,

947
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 1: then simply looking at your calendar like that can help

948
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 1: you to do the same with your time. And so

949
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 1: look at it and see is like is it full

950
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 1: of events and meetings that you are excited about? But

951
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: or have you slipped into the business trap that's so

952
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:20,359
Speaker 1: easy to fall prey to, I mean, especially this time

953
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 1: of year. That being said, not everybody follows their calendar

954
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 1: maybe as strictly as others. Um and so maybe if

955
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: you'd rather start with the end in mind, it could

956
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 1: be helpful to start with like some of life's biggest questions.

957
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 1: You can take it a completely different approach and you

958
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 1: can come up with a mission statement that you can

959
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: work towards. I think for a lot of folks, having

960
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: that end in mind, having that goal that you're working

961
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: towards can just allow everything else to kind of fall

962
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,839
Speaker 1: into place, as opposed to starting at the bottom and

963
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: kind of piecing it together. It can act like a

964
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: guiding light to inform the other choices and have you

965
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 1: decide to incorporate it into your life. Yeah, yeah, And

966
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 1: so what will link to a works you that we've

967
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 1: created to help you to find the answers to some

968
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: of these questions. That's our money mission statement, But the

969
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,400
Speaker 1: money part of it is is kind of secondary to

970
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,760
Speaker 1: the first questions we ask, which is primarily more about

971
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: how it is that you want to spend your time,

972
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 1: because ultimately time, like it is the most valuable resource,

973
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 1: it is the most scarce resource that we have, and

974
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: that ultimately defines what it is that your life looks like,

975
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 1: how it is that you are spending your days in

976
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: your weeks. And we think this is the perfect time

977
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,240
Speaker 1: to be thinking about this topic because we just got maybe,

978
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: like I referenced at the beginning of the episode, Christmas

979
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: let you down in a way like it wasn't all

980
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 1: that you hoped it would be. And you built it

981
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 1: up through the month of December, singing the Carrols, listening

982
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 1: to the Mariah carry jams, and you're like decorating the

983
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 1: tree Mariah carries out. Man. You would see the headlines.

984
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: Is it not still the number one most listen to

985
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 1: Christmas song? It might be, but everyone's like revolting. Nobody

986
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: wants to hear it here really more. Yeah, Okay, don't

987
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 1: tell that to my wife. Your wife is such a millennial.

988
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: She loves that song. She hates Mariah Carey. Well, you're

989
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,919
Speaker 1: doing all these things right, in this effort to have

990
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 1: a happy Christmas, and yet you may have still else

991
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: a little bit left down. And so especially as we're

992
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: going to towards a new year and you're starting to

993
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 1: think about like maybe things you want to change. There's

994
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:09,839
Speaker 1: a fresh start. We're gonna talk about fresh starts here

995
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: next week on the show. But you have this ability

996
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: to use use this fresh start to propel yourself forward

997
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 1: in a different way. This is the perfect time to

998
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 1: be thinking about all these things as you're kind of

999
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,360
Speaker 1: making those plans and from where we're sitting, cultivating a

1000
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: rich inner life, like delightful hobbies and indispensable community are

1001
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 1: some of the keys defining happiness. Money it's not unimportant,

1002
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 1: right you know what, Matt and I were not planning

1003
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,279
Speaker 1: to take a vow of poverty anytime soon. You're not

1004
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: gonna live a monastic existence and not yet un monastery,

1005
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 1: become one of those desert fathers. Maybe your wife and

1006
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:47,760
Speaker 1: kids would love it if you left right now. They

1007
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: think that was great. It have to be like an

1008
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:52,760
Speaker 1: empty duster thing. Yeah, maybe that, But but like money

1009
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 1: doesn't have all that much bearing on a lot of

1010
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 1: these things past a certain point. That is kind of

1011
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 1: what we're getting out here. And if you've been listening

1012
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 1: to this show for any point, that's time. You know.

1013
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: We're not against building wealth for your future, but now

1014
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:05,720
Speaker 1: is a great time to think about how much stock

1015
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 1: you're placing in your bank or your investment accounts, and

1016
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:10,879
Speaker 1: are you placing too much of a priority on those

1017
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 1: things to the detriment of other more important things. That's

1018
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 1: food for thought as we're heading into a new year.

1019
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 1: That's right. Man, couldn't have said it better myself. Let's

1020
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: go ahead and shift gears and get back to the

1021
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 1: beer that you and I enjoyed during this episode. This

1022
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 1: was called mile High Salute, which is the only mile

1023
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 1: high salute? Is that the Broncos football thing? Have you

1024
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 1: ever heard? I think it is when they do the

1025
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 1: you know when they did they do that anymore? I

1026
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: don't know. Um, I feel like I remember that back

1027
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 1: in the day, Carl Davis remember exactly. But this was

1028
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 1: a Checha sour And when Jack dropped these beers off,

1029
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 1: you mentioned so one of the cobrewers, I guess one

1030
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: of the co owners of the brewery. Uh he I

1031
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 1: think he's half Peruvian. And there's a drink called the

1032
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 1: Cheecha something may maybe it's called the Cheecha sour Chicha Murada.

1033
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 1: I believe was that it very nice? Did you look

1034
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 1: it up? I did? Okay, Wikipedia so helpful. But this

1035
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:05,720
Speaker 1: beer is brewed in the style of that drink. Uh,

1036
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 1: And so I would like to hear your thoughts, Joel.

1037
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:09,319
Speaker 1: All right, I've never had a beer like this, which

1038
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 1: I think is always fun to something always unique, like

1039
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 1: a little out of left field. This one definitely was that.

1040
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: It was a really cool combo of sour, spice and fruit,

1041
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:24,240
Speaker 1: and so I like the pineapple, but there was also cinnamon,

1042
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,359
Speaker 1: but then it was also sour. Until it's like it

1043
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 1: feels kind of like a kitchen sink beer in a

1044
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 1: lot of ways, but but not in a weird way,

1045
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:33,399
Speaker 1: not in a weird way, like all it all actually works.

1046
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 1: Everything blended together really well. And so I will say, like, yeah,

1047
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 1: it sounds a little weird on its surface if you

1048
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 1: read all these ingredients combined into one, but I don't know.

1049
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: This beer pulled it off and I enjoyed it. What

1050
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 1: about you? Yes, the only poured this the what I

1051
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 1: was picking up on the nose. I could not get

1052
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:54,760
Speaker 1: past this. But Luxardo Marischino Liqueur. I like to sometimes

1053
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 1: put a little like tiny little splash of that when

1054
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: I'm making an old fashioned. In my opinion, that's exactly

1055
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 1: what this like before I tasted it, because yeah, because

1056
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 1: I don't for whatever reason, that's that's what I'll smelling.

1057
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 1: But then you take a sip and you can definitely

1058
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 1: taste that fruit, and that for me, the cinnamon really

1059
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: came through, like, in my opinion, that was not something

1060
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 1: I was picking up on my nose for whatever reason.

1061
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 1: But then what you tasted, you most definitely taste that.

1062
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: There's a lot in the flavor profile for clothes. It's

1063
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 1: all mixed in there, and this one in particularly too.

1064
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 1: I thought you might really like this one because it

1065
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 1: was not overly sweet. I was expecting it it might be.

1066
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: Personally I would appreciate if it was a touch sweeter,

1067
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: but it was had a nice amount of tartness going on,

1068
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 1: and honestly, that's great from the standpoint of not having

1069
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 1: like palette fatigue. You know, like it's a sweeter beer.

1070
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:40,800
Speaker 1: You drink it once and you're like, oh, this is amazing,

1071
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: but by the time you get to the end of

1072
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:44,280
Speaker 1: the glass, you're kind of getting sick of its starting

1073
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 1: to feel kind of full. But that is not the

1074
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: case with something that's a little bit on the dryer side.

1075
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:49,719
Speaker 1: You get to the end of it and you're just

1076
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: wanting more because it's dry, and you're like, oh, any

1077
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: more sweetness, any more wetness in my mouth. Definitely really

1078
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 1: enjoyed this one. This was an incredibly unique beer, and

1079
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: if you happen to be near Mutation Brewery, we would

1080
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 1: recommend you checking it out for sure, just outside of Atlanta.

1081
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: We still haven't been in person, but we'll make it

1082
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 1: happen soon. Well, that's gonna do it for this episode,

1083
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 1: Matt Folks and fine show notes. Links to some of

1084
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 1: the studies maybe that we mentioned in this episode. You

1085
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 1: can find links to that. Yeah, on our website at

1086
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 1: how to money dot com. That's right, and we are

1087
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 1: getting towards the end of the year, and so we

1088
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 1: will ask you one last time if you have enjoyed

1089
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 1: this episode or just our show in general this year,

1090
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 1: we would love it if you were to head over

1091
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 1: to Apple Podcasts or wherever it is that you listen

1092
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: and leave us a positive rating, give us a nice

1093
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 1: review over there. It just helps others to find this show.

1094
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 1: You can even see it as a belated Christmas gift,

1095
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 1: a nice little present for Matt and Jewel, so much

1096
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 1: better than the ugly Christmas winter you thought about sending us. Exactly,

1097
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,320
Speaker 1: but Joe, that's gonna be at money for this episode

1098
00:51:48,400 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 1: until next time. Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out bo