Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress, the
Speaker 1: Hey with Smarties. Today we are joined by a woman
Speaker 1: that I absolutely adore.
Speaker 2: A formidable talent to be reckoned with.
Speaker 1: A three time Emmy Award winning, Tony Award nominated actress
Speaker 1: whose work spands television, film, and theater. Today's guest is
Speaker 1: none other than u Zo Aduba. She was born in Boston, Massachusetts,
Speaker 1: to parents who immigrated to this country from Nigeria. She
Speaker 1: eventually moved to New York to pursue acting and gained
Speaker 1: wide recognition for her role as Suzanne Crazy Eyes Warren
Speaker 1: on the Netflix original series Orange Is the New Black.
Speaker 1: She won an Emmy Award for Outstanding Guest Actress in
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, an Emmy Award for Outstanding Supporting Actress in
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, to two wo SAG Awards for Outstanding Performance
Speaker 1: by a Female Actor in a Comedy Series. She is
Speaker 1: also one of only two actors to win an Emmy
Speaker 1: Award in both the Comedy and Drama categories for the
Speaker 1: same role. She's a Legend. In twenty twenty, she played
Speaker 1: Shirley Chisholm in the Hulu mini series Missus America. For
Speaker 1: which she also won an Emmy Award. And by the way,
Speaker 1: it's the coolest glimpse into the history that women have
Speaker 1: made in this country. If you haven't seen it, you
Speaker 1: must watch it immediately. I could literally spend the next
Speaker 1: three minutes reading the rest of her resume. But whether
Speaker 1: it's film, television, broadway, Uzo Aduba is an absolute force.
Speaker 1: Now she is producing. She has a multi year deal
Speaker 1: with CBS Studios. She has set up over a dozen
Speaker 1: series projects. I don't know where she finds the time.
Speaker 1: And to add to this incredible resume, she is now
Speaker 1: a first time author. Her book The Road Is Good.
Speaker 1: How a Mother's Strength Became a Daughter's Purpose is a
Speaker 1: powerful memoir about immigrant identity, the story of an unforgettable matriarch.
Speaker 1: Huzzo's mom is one of a kind. You feel like
Speaker 1: you get to know her in these pages, and in
Speaker 1: some way, I think her uniqueness is what will make
Speaker 1: her feel universal to all of you. She reminded me
Speaker 1: in my own ways, of my own family and our
Speaker 1: own story. It's just such a beautiful page turner about
Speaker 1: a girl grappling with a master juggling act, growing up
Speaker 1: one of one in a community, and learning to take
Speaker 1: that feeling of being othered and turn it into unique beauty.
Speaker 1: This book is more than just the journey of a
Speaker 1: young woman has determined to survive young adulthood. It's the
Speaker 1: story of how an incredible mother can be such a
Speaker 1: testament to stepping into your power. It's so good that
Speaker 1: I'm going to stop talking so that we can dive
Speaker 1: into this interview and you can hear the marvelous Zoa
Speaker 1: Duba speak on this herself.
Speaker 3: Enjoy Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming.
Speaker 2: How are you feeling with the book and everything I'm feeling.
Speaker 4: I'm feeling a bunch of different feelings, to be honest
Speaker 4: with you, I'm feeling excited, nervous, curious, happy, sometimes a
Speaker 4: little sad, but supremely thankful at the end of the
Speaker 4: day because I was like, oh, man, I wish my
Speaker 4: mom was here to get to like see it, you know,
Speaker 4: and let's all come together, which is like, of course,
Speaker 4: you know, a bummer generally, But at the same time,
Speaker 4: on the other side, I'm like, oh my gosh, thank
Speaker 4: god we got to have that time together and her
Speaker 4: to like pour back over me, you know, all all
Speaker 4: of the lessons and experiences and stories and things that
Speaker 4: we've gone through, seen together or before, be reminded of
Speaker 4: her own story with that like detail of knowing you know,
Speaker 4: I'm really telling this to you and I needed to
Speaker 4: hold on to it. So yeah, I'm glad that I
Speaker 4: even had that opportunity.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I guess it's just really striking me
Speaker 1: in real time that that is this sort of silver
Speaker 1: lining of a tragedy is when you know time is fleeting,
Speaker 1: rather than it ending out of the blue, you probably
Speaker 1: get to gather and be together and communicate in ways
Speaker 1: that are deeper. Perhaps then the way we can just
Speaker 1: walk through the world sometimes taking for granted a moment
Speaker 1: with someone you love or you know.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, my my dear dear friend Iris, she said it
Speaker 4: to me once as she had her life had been
Speaker 4: touched by cancer, and she said it, you know, just
Speaker 4: sort of just said it. She was like, you know,
Speaker 4: there's a strange there's a strange blessing in cancer. It
Speaker 4: gives you time to say and do all the things,
Speaker 4: you know, which is true because you don't want it,
Speaker 4: and you know, I would rather us not to have that.
Speaker 4: This is we're candid out blessings. Don't give me that one,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 2: What I mean, Like I would have loved to have
Speaker 2: perhaps picked a.
Speaker 4: Different one exactly exactly, but it is that sort of fortune.
Speaker 4: And like we had started this book that had scotten,
Speaker 4: had the proposal draft, started the proposal and was in
Speaker 4: connection with my publisher, Viking before my mom was six.
Speaker 4: So then when I sat down to write it, she
Speaker 4: was six. So when we started diving into some of
Speaker 4: these you know, stories in this proposal, with the proposal
Speaker 4: that was not the book I was setting out to write, honestly,
Speaker 4: the book that I wrote, the book that I was
Speaker 4: setting out to write. I thought it was just going to.
Speaker 5: Be like, yeah, lessons exactly, lessons are just being black lah,
Speaker 5: you know, like that's going to be like the book.
Speaker 4: And then it was like, oh wait, now like these lessons,
Speaker 4: I got to really hear these lessons and like really
Speaker 4: get her story and like, so yeah, anyway.
Speaker 1: Wow, this is incredible. I have so many more questions obviously,
Speaker 1: because you you know, my friend just wrote a book. Hello,
Speaker 1: But I I really like to go back with people
Speaker 1: before we go to my favorite first official question to
Speaker 1: ask someone. I actually have to do a sort of
Speaker 1: in between the now and then and just rewind us
Speaker 1: like a quick couple of weeks and say, I got
Speaker 1: to recap the DNC with you because it was so
Speaker 1: special to be there. It was so special for me.
Speaker 1: It's not lost on me that I always see you
Speaker 1: in my favorite and seemingly most like spiritually or soulfully
Speaker 1: important rooms. I'm always like, yeah, of course, here this trap.
Speaker 1: And I was saying when I got home to my partner,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I bawled like a baby every
Speaker 1: single night. There was like a point in the night
Speaker 1: where I'd be like, tonight, I'm not going to cry,
Speaker 1: and then I would just sob Did you have that too?
Speaker 1: Did you? Were you in the sort of washing machine
Speaker 1: of excitement and overwhelm or did you just like keep
Speaker 1: it together better?
Speaker 4: No? No, no, no, no. I was in. I was
Speaker 4: in in the tears room. I was in the joy
Speaker 4: bounce house room. I was in like the college lecture,
Speaker 4: lean in and listen to Professor Presidents Barack Obama and
Speaker 4: first Lady Professor Michelle ob You know. I was all
Speaker 4: of those things. And then the culmination of her ascendants
Speaker 4: to the state of presidential formal presidential nominee that was
Speaker 4: it was overwhelming and yes, like we have been in
Speaker 4: those spaces, even if we are to chart and track
Speaker 4: you and I in January twenty seventeen being in Washington, DC,
Speaker 4: you remember all those women yes, and the response and
Speaker 4: the weight of that moment. And then to flash ourselves
Speaker 4: forward a short eight years later, seven and three quarters
Speaker 4: years later, and here we are now again, gathered, but
Speaker 4: this time watching it not only happen again, but feeling
Speaker 4: the understanding of the real possibility that even it that
Speaker 4: we're not going back, I mean, like to quote her directly,
Speaker 4: when we're not going back, you know that we're America
Speaker 4: is determining, determined in some capacity to push forward, because
Speaker 4: here we are trying it yet again.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, determined in some capacity to be what we
Speaker 1: claim to be to be for everyone. It's not supposed
Speaker 1: to be that hard. But obviously we've all studied our history,
Speaker 1: and to feel really close to it in this way
Speaker 1: now after where we've all been feels, you know, I think,
Speaker 1: even more magical than it did the first potential time around,
Speaker 1: when we thought, oh, we might have a president that
Speaker 1: also represents us as women, you know, and it I
Speaker 1: don't know, it hits me especially, I wonder if it
Speaker 1: does for you too, I mean, you obviously have the
Speaker 1: completely different experience. I can only watch, but I don't
Speaker 1: in habit of being a black woman watching a black
Speaker 1: woman being nominated for this office. And I think about
Speaker 1: it just what it means to me for women in general,
Speaker 1: and that she manages for us, you know, as people
Speaker 1: lucky enough to reside in California, we've gotten to watch
Speaker 1: her for so long in all of these different offices
Speaker 1: to lead, you know, in small ways when not a
Speaker 1: ton of people were paying attention, maybe outside of our state,
Speaker 1: and in these massive ways, you know, for all of
Speaker 1: us across the nation now, and it's I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's like so silly, not her mom, but I have
Speaker 1: this very intense like sense of pride. I'm like, that's
Speaker 1: our girl, that's our attorney general, and.
Speaker 4: You know she is well, and you think about it,
Speaker 4: what like it's like, I definitely one hundred percent agree
Speaker 4: with you. I think of it in terms of being
Speaker 4: a woman. I think of it in terms of being
Speaker 4: a black woman, a woman of color, O first generation woman,
Speaker 4: you know, which as a child of immigrants. You know,
Speaker 4: I connect. I really do see my story when I
Speaker 4: see her up.
Speaker 1: There to.
Speaker 4: What it takes to carve out a life for yourself
Speaker 4: as immigrants in America, and that all you want really
Speaker 4: is just to see the American dream made possible for
Speaker 4: your own children. My mother growing up. My American dream
Speaker 4: is for you people to live your dream. That's that's
Speaker 4: the goal. That's the simple goal. And for her to
Speaker 4: have not only met it, but you know, multiplied at
Speaker 4: times one thousand, is just a testament to her strength
Speaker 4: or intelligence, her ability, her capability, her readiness. You know,
Speaker 4: somebody who has been a courtroom prosecutor, elevated to district attorney,
Speaker 4: elevated to attorney general, elevated. And by the way, when
Speaker 4: I say elevated, it's elected, really yes, elected to the
Speaker 4: office of US Senator, which is in itself as a
Speaker 4: black woman is underrepresented, and then finally elected to the
Speaker 4: office of Vice president, and now seeking the votes and
Speaker 4: election of president. You know, in a space where that
Speaker 4: just has not been done, It hasn't happened. There hasn't
Speaker 4: never been a female president yet. And that she has
Speaker 4: all of these high, high elevated marks on her resume
Speaker 4: and experience as compared to the other side. I think
Speaker 4: also women that resumes with a lot of women as well.
Speaker 4: How hard you have to work to even be seen. Yes,
Speaker 4: you're nineteen thousand points of experience on your resume and
Speaker 4: still be questioned yes.
Speaker 1: Oh well, I mean I think I think today we're
Speaker 1: what fifty days out on the day of recording together,
Speaker 1: so let's keep our feet on the gas America. So
Speaker 1: it's it's a perfect kind of transition point because the
Speaker 1: usual first question I like to ask people is this,
Speaker 1: And we're talking about in your answer to the last question,
Speaker 1: some of the way that you grew up. And I
Speaker 1: think about this a lot because I get to sit
Speaker 1: down with people when you're so known for something or
Speaker 1: so many things as you are, and I like to
Speaker 1: know who you were before we all knew you. And
Speaker 1: I wonder if you could, you know, jumped into the
Speaker 1: space time continuum and sit down with your eight year
Speaker 1: old self, would you see this version of yourself in her?
Speaker 1: Or did everything following the path of your life wind
Speaker 1: up surprising you? Or is it maybe a little bit
Speaker 1: of both.
Speaker 4: I would say a little bit of both. I am,
Speaker 4: thankfully a lot calmer than I was. Anyone would tell
Speaker 4: you my siblings, any person, I was very precocious, wild
Speaker 4: imagination thought. But that part I think is still true.
Speaker 4: You know, I've always thought anything is possible. Anything. I
Speaker 4: still think that. Maybe that's dangerous, I don't know, but
Speaker 4: I think anything is possible. And so I'm glad that
Speaker 4: part of myself still exists. But oh man, when I
Speaker 4: was a kid, I was like ripping. I was like,
Speaker 4: good on, you know what I mean, every all of
Speaker 4: those idea. I was like, let's drive them off, you know,
Speaker 4: like let's make a parachute out of our bed sheets
Speaker 4: and jump off the roof. And it's like no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 4: Like you know, that actually doesn't work. Little girl, You know,
Speaker 4: That's that's what I'm talking about, you know a little
Speaker 4: bit of like what is it Ramona Quimby? If you
Speaker 4: ever read those books, He's Ramona Quimby. I had a
Speaker 4: lot of romonic Q. Wimby and me when I was little.
Speaker 4: And but yeah, but I also believed anything was possible.
Speaker 4: Something that was told to me by my mom, my
Speaker 4: mom an example to me by her as well. Right
Speaker 4: over here you can't quite see it, but like this
Speaker 4: little piece of wood that's back there is a little
Speaker 4: quote of hers as a quote of hers that she
Speaker 4: used to say to my siblings and I our whole lives,
Speaker 4: and it was I've never heard of nothing coming from
Speaker 4: hard work and the living, breathing example of that to me,
Speaker 4: and it stuck with all of my siblings, and when
Speaker 4: she said it to me before I moved to New York,
Speaker 4: when I first started out, it really stuck like gum
Speaker 4: to my bones, like I've seen this woman do this,
Speaker 4: and I'm just gonna have to work harder than I've
Speaker 4: ever worked before to try and make this happen if
Speaker 4: I'm serious, Because I think she knows what she's talking about,
Speaker 4: and I think I would say that is like something
Speaker 4: that's always been a part of me, like just like,
Speaker 4: let's get down and dirty and work with this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute. But here's
Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors. Well, And I imagine that
Speaker 1: that is so indicative of who she was and her
Speaker 1: spirit and also, as you mentioned earlier, part of a
Speaker 1: thing that I think any child of immigrants goes, Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: that kind of work ethic, that willing to do what
Speaker 1: it takes, and then some it is something I think
Speaker 1: so many people who come here share, and I wonder
Speaker 1: what for you growing up, and you know, before you
Speaker 1: moved to New York and your Massachusetts suburb was like
Speaker 1: you know, I know you talk in the book about
Speaker 1: how there weren't many people who looked like you where
Speaker 1: you grew up, and probably not a lot of people
Speaker 1: who came from where your parents came from. And were
Speaker 1: you always aware of that experience of being an immigrant
Speaker 1: family in your community.
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely, so definitely always aware. I remember, and I'm
Speaker 4: still friends with one of my neighbors, Karen Lung. She
Speaker 4: lives here in La too, and her she was first gen.
Speaker 4: She is first gen too. Her family's from China, and
Speaker 4: she lived around the corner. And my best friend, Simmy
Speaker 4: was let's girl right here. Oh, Simmy also first Jen
Speaker 4: her family from India. We've been friends since thirteen. And
Speaker 4: that was it in our town. Maybe in my grade,
Speaker 4: I should say, that was it. I have one more girl,
Speaker 4: and that was it, you know, like very very very small,
Speaker 4: few spatterings, and none of them African, none of them Nigerian,
Speaker 4: you know, and so it was it was you are
Speaker 4: aware as you're unpacking your lunch and everybody's like, what's that,
Speaker 4: you know, and You're like it's Choe Off Race and
Speaker 4: it's delicious, you know, you know, it's amazing delicious, It's delicious.
Speaker 4: You know, I mean really just want like Peb and
Speaker 4: Jay like everybody else. You know, it's from it's that
Speaker 4: wide to them getting more granular too, quite literally, you know,
Speaker 4: something as mundane as wanting to talk about hair or
Speaker 4: you know, there's you remember, Disney used to have like
Speaker 4: on Sunday, like Disney movies like Made for Sunday Night Night,
Speaker 4: I forget what it's called, and Wonder World World of
Speaker 4: Disney or something like this, and you know, everybody would
Speaker 4: watch all the Disney things. And then this one that
Speaker 4: came out called Polly that was like an all black
Speaker 4: adaptation of Pollyanna that I watched an all a family watch.
Speaker 4: When you come to school and you're like, did you
Speaker 4: guys watch Polly last night? And they're like, no, what's that?
Speaker 4: And you're just curious why no one tuned in to
Speaker 4: watch that one but tuned into the four before that,
Speaker 4: you know, to then as real as the experiences that
Speaker 4: we talk about today in culture, you know, just your
Speaker 4: family is walking in the neighborhood, you have an honor
Speaker 4: uncle visiting and people aren't familiar with who they are,
Speaker 4: and then all of a sudden the police show up,
Speaker 4: and you know, things like this, You know you're so
Speaker 4: you have alerts that are making you aware along the way.
Speaker 4: I'm I'm different for some people here, but also then
Speaker 4: some amazing people who are celebrating you in that difference.
Speaker 4: Also something that I'm also grateful or grateful for that
Speaker 4: there were some people in our community and in my
Speaker 4: life friends of mine as well, who saw that difference,
Speaker 4: celebrated it and really were, you know, protectors for my parents,
Speaker 4: me and my siblings to help us sort of shuttle
Speaker 4: through and get through at points. But yeah, I think
Speaker 4: every kid just wants to fit in, surpritinly whatever your
Speaker 4: difference is. Yeah, and you're just trying to find your
Speaker 4: space in the world. But I'm thankful that I did
Speaker 4: discover and learn that, you know, my differences are important,
Speaker 4: and I'm really grateful it's taught like to hold on
Speaker 4: to them, whether that's my name, whether that's my gap,
Speaker 4: you know, all these things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think about that a lot when you smile,
Speaker 1: and like friends of mine who have the most arrestingly
Speaker 1: beautiful facial characteristic like your gap, and I think, like, God,
Speaker 1: I'm so relieved that not everyone's been convinced to erase
Speaker 1: their uniqueness. I didn't get a cool gap. I had
Speaker 1: to get braces because my canine teeth came in up here,
Speaker 1: and I.
Speaker 2: Was like, it was, I'll find you a photo.
Speaker 1: Sometimes deeply, deeply not cute, deeply needed to be fixed.
Speaker 1: But I just like, I don't know, I was always struck.
Speaker 1: Lauren Hutton said this thing a long time ago.
Speaker 4: That was it her?
Speaker 1: Or was it Jamie Lee Curtis. One of them said
Speaker 1: something about how they were afraid that given the sort
Speaker 1: of culture we find ourselves in, with everybody getting so
Speaker 1: much done to themselves, they said, you know, I think
Speaker 1: we're erasing a whole generation of beauty.
Speaker 4: Oh yes.
Speaker 1: To be given the ability to cherish who you are
Speaker 1: in your uniqueness, I think is so important when you're young,
Speaker 1: because everyone gets picked on for whatever reason. They might
Speaker 1: be different when we're young, because kids are amazing and
Speaker 1: they're also so mean, and it's like you grow up
Speaker 1: and the thing you get picked on for is the
Speaker 1: thing that becomes the most beautiful and celebrated about you.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I love that. I love hearing
Speaker 1: about the kind of household you grew up in where
Speaker 1: you were. Yes, of course you were aware, but it
Speaker 1: seems like you really were given an awareness of the
Speaker 1: whole spectrum of experience from what was hard to what
Speaker 1: was beautiful, and you were always taught to hold on
Speaker 1: to yourself in it. And that's so cool.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I think, I mean, it's like not
Speaker 4: to talk so much about her, but I mean, I'm
Speaker 4: happy to talk about my mom all the time. But
Speaker 4: it's like, you know, she was coming from a place
Speaker 4: where a gap is a sign of beauty in Africa,
Speaker 4: so she not getting my issue, you know, And I
Speaker 4: was I was begging her for braces and my team
Speaker 4: are perfectly fine, you know, like there's there, there's nothing
Speaker 4: there except that I have a gap. And she'd be like, oozo,
Speaker 4: don't you know that in Nigeria a gap is a
Speaker 4: sign of beauty. And I was like, we live in
Speaker 4: medfield messages as you mom exactly then you know what
Speaker 4: I mean, like that kind of a thing. But thank god,
Speaker 4: she was like really insistent on it, because she would
Speaker 4: go on and she's like everyone in our family, my
Speaker 4: family has what she coined a'm you all cool, which
Speaker 4: is her maiden name. Gap Everyone has it and I
Speaker 4: don't have it, and I wish I had it, and
Speaker 4: it's like, thank god I didn't, because I grew up
Speaker 4: and I fell in love with my smiles. I even
Speaker 4: have a hard time now so they honestly, like on
Speaker 4: the carpet sometimes when it's like giving fear space, like
Speaker 4: because for so many years I'm not checking. For so
Speaker 4: many years when I was a kid, I would not
Speaker 4: smile a closed mouth smile like this is my face
Speaker 4: like that, just because I didn't like it. And then
Speaker 4: just because of a photographer for my senior high school
Speaker 4: pictures said I think you have a beautiful smile. It
Speaker 4: changed my whole world to the point I started smiling
Speaker 4: all the time. And now I'm on carpets and I'm
Speaker 4: trying to give like a fierce faith. I can't because
Speaker 4: I love to smile. Now I feel like I'm making
Speaker 4: up for lost smiles, you know, likes of just not
Speaker 4: doing it that. I'm like, I love my smile now,
Speaker 4: and I'm so thankful that she didn't let my insecurity,
Speaker 4: let my difference dictate the woman I would become. She
Speaker 4: was like, no, you're standing that and You're going to
Speaker 4: fall in love with yourself.
Speaker 1: That's so special, And I think about what that gives
Speaker 1: you too. You know, as you begin to shift your
Speaker 1: experience and then you're going to leave home and you
Speaker 1: do as you said, move to New York to try
Speaker 1: to do this thing. And you know you were working
Speaker 1: as an actress in the theater. I know that, and
Speaker 1: I love these stories that right before you booked Oranges
Speaker 1: the New Black, after the full journey, you were like
Speaker 1: this close to quitting and then you booked the show.
Speaker 2: Were you did you book that in New York?
Speaker 1: Had you moved to la Like, how did we get
Speaker 1: from this aha moment at the end of high school
Speaker 1: to you almost left the industry and here we are today?
Speaker 4: Right? I booked it in New York. I had been
Speaker 4: a play and the manager I was working with at
Speaker 4: the time she I had always let me start with.
Speaker 4: I had always wanted to do film and television, but
Speaker 4: I just had never again, I had not seen anyone
Speaker 4: like myself in that space, so I didn't I didn't
Speaker 4: feel invited to the table in a way that made
Speaker 4: me feel like it was even worth giving it a go.
Speaker 4: And in the theater space, I felt like I saw more,
Speaker 4: a little bit more of myself, so I was comfortable there.
Speaker 4: So anyway, so I started working with a manager who
Speaker 4: saw me in the play I was doing at the time,
Speaker 4: and she was from Hollywood.
Speaker 1: Oh God.
Speaker 4: He said that she thought I should give it a
Speaker 4: try to do film and television. And honestly, I genuinely
Speaker 4: believe it's because she was from Hollywood that I was like,
Speaker 4: she must know something like that made me get just
Speaker 4: like an inch more confidence. So I started auditioning for
Speaker 4: film and television that summer. She said, We're not going
Speaker 4: to audition for any place, just film and television. And
Speaker 4: at that point in my career, I was making a
Speaker 4: living doing theater, not a fancy living or anything, just
Speaker 4: but up my look, you know. Like, so I was
Speaker 4: watching my nose for all of my auditions go up
Speaker 4: and my bank account going down, and I was really doubting,
Speaker 4: Like I just did not think. I thought it was right. Honestly,
Speaker 4: I thought it was right in not try having tried,
Speaker 4: like this is exactly how I thought it was going
Speaker 4: to go, and this is how it's going. And you know,
Speaker 4: I had reached the point where I was like, it's
Speaker 4: time to get off this you know, this boat, off
Speaker 4: this ship and try something else. In tears, I prayed
Speaker 4: up and said I was going to go to law
Speaker 4: school become alwayer because that's what I thought. I was
Speaker 4: going to do my whole life anyway. And I thought
Speaker 4: it was gonna be a lobbyist because I loved political science.
Speaker 4: That's gonna moved to DC and be a lobbyist. I
Speaker 4: had no idea lobby And then I got home, ordered sushi,
Speaker 4: ordered to my sister to come over because I was
Speaker 4: going to tell her first, and I was gonna quit.
Speaker 4: It was a Friday on Monday. I was gonna call
Speaker 4: my manager and my agent at the time and tell
Speaker 4: them that I was done. And then five forty three
Speaker 4: pm exactly, I'll never forget it. On that Friday in September,
Speaker 4: my phone rang and I got the job for Oranges
Speaker 4: a New Black, and Wow, my life has never been
Speaker 4: the same.
Speaker 1: Rightly, we'll be back in just a minute. After a
Speaker 1: few words from our favorite sponsors. I had to really
Speaker 1: think about this because we forget that this was one
Speaker 1: of the first shows on Netflix. It wasn't this streaming
Speaker 1: juggernaut yet, you know, it was the company that started
Speaker 1: with DVDs. They would mail you of movies you could watch. Now,
Speaker 1: I think we almost take for granted how much content
Speaker 1: is available. And you, ladies, I mean, you blew open
Speaker 1: the world of television, of who got to be on TV,
Speaker 1: of what kinds of stories got to be told on TV.
Speaker 1: It was so of color, it was so queer.
Speaker 4: It was so.
Speaker 1: Like, I can't even explain it, like the breath of
Speaker 1: fresh air. I felt beginning to watch you all on
Speaker 1: that show, and I was like, Oh, the things that
Speaker 1: feel the most sacred as a storyteller really can happen.
Speaker 1: Was it incredible? Did you have any idea how big
Speaker 1: it would be? Or was the sort of explosion of
Speaker 1: it a shock to you as well?
Speaker 4: Oh it's total shock, a total shock. And you have
Speaker 4: to know this too, write in your own experience that
Speaker 4: it's like you can't you make the thing and you
Speaker 4: don't know what it's going to be or not be.
Speaker 4: And I mean, at this point, like to your point,
Speaker 4: it's like Netflix, wasn't I thought it was a web
Speaker 4: series if.
Speaker 1: You're asking me, And I was like a short film
Speaker 1: on YouTube exactly.
Speaker 4: I was like YouTube, Like people were asking me. I
Speaker 4: was like I don't know where it's gonna be a YouTube,
Speaker 4: you know, like that sort of thing. So I had
Speaker 4: no idea whatsoever. I only one of my castmates, can
Speaker 4: I recall, so Lenis Leva, who called it like early.
Speaker 4: She called it early. She was like, I think this
Speaker 4: is gonna be good. And I remember sitting with her
Speaker 4: being like, why what makes you think? Then she's like,
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just I just have a feeling.
Speaker 4: She's like, it's step a feeling. And I was like, Okay,
Speaker 4: we're gonna be massive on YouTube, you know, like this
Speaker 4: is gonna be great, you know, like cool. No idea,
Speaker 4: but I did know that I had never seen done
Speaker 4: anything like this or seen stories like these told like
Speaker 4: I had never been in an experience before where I
Speaker 4: had seen so many different groups of women, types of women,
Speaker 4: eighs to shades, to energy, to identity to gender, all
Speaker 4: of it like I had never seen it, And that
Speaker 4: felt and told through stories that were exciting and inspiring
Speaker 4: as an actor, I had never had that before, and
Speaker 4: that was pretty cool, and I was just happy to
Speaker 4: be there, you know. Honestly, we all were. Frankly, we
Speaker 4: all were just really into it and stoked and to
Speaker 4: see like the full three sixties view of what it
Speaker 4: needs to be a woman, that it's like a narrow way.
Speaker 4: We'd seen stories told to watch it like wide and
Speaker 4: you know, for another group, yeah, was awesome.
Speaker 1: And how did you This is just a nerdy actor
Speaker 1: to actor question. I'm like, how did you prepare for
Speaker 1: that role? You know? What was it like to try
Speaker 1: to figure out how to crack Suzanne?
Speaker 4: Yeah? You know, for me, when I read the script
Speaker 4: originally and she's introduced, I remember I just thought it
Speaker 4: was a love story. I wasn't so focused on Okay,
Speaker 4: she's crazy, so now like let's play crazy. I was like, well,
Speaker 4: what does that even mean? You know, like because the
Speaker 4: description of her is like she's almost like you know,
Speaker 4: she's she's what it was like like a child like
Speaker 4: she had like a childlike element about hers. I remember
Speaker 4: was something in it the description, and I remember latching
Speaker 4: onto that, and that to me felt like innocence pure
Speaker 4: and that means all of her reactions are they are
Speaker 4: not the reactions of an adult, and maybe that might
Speaker 4: come across like different or crazy, and I just remember
Speaker 4: thinking that was my anchor, that she would do anything
Speaker 4: for love, and that was all I was concentrating on
Speaker 4: the rest. I was like, what, however it comes out,
Speaker 4: it will come out. But what she's trying to communicate
Speaker 4: is she does not play with the people. She loves
Speaker 4: anything to protect people. She loves anything, even if that
Speaker 4: seems off the rails to the outsider, makes perfect sense
Speaker 4: to her.
Speaker 1: I love that. And that gives you something too, especially
Speaker 1: in the world of TV, where no matter what is
Speaker 1: in the next script that you had no idea was coming,
Speaker 1: you have a kind of ground zero for her, no matter.
Speaker 4: What for yourself.
Speaker 1: Yes, wow, And then you go, I guess I'm just
Speaker 1: thinking my brain is, you know, giving me this sort
Speaker 1: of montage of scenes from that show and then scenes
Speaker 1: from in treatment and thinking about this completely different person
Speaker 1: you know that you got to play and and what
Speaker 1: a cool thing in a way to have to get inside,
Speaker 1: you know, the mind of someone like Suzanne and then
Speaker 1: to literally flip in the other direction and play the
Speaker 1: therapist who might treat someone like.
Speaker 2: Her exactly like to do that?
Speaker 1: Are you just binge watching Esther Perel and Doctor Tama
Speaker 1: or are you reading like the Body keeps the score?
Speaker 2: How do you get into that headspace?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, the body keeps the score and myself also
Speaker 4: being in therapy, although I was not using my therapy sessions,
Speaker 4: let me be clear for a character or study. But
Speaker 4: therapist is like, she's like, you're watching me exactly. No.
Speaker 4: I for that, I kind of thought of Brooke Taylor,
Speaker 4: my character and entreatment. I was like, as a container
Speaker 4: m her job is to whole. Everybody's gonna come in
Speaker 4: here and they are going to pour whatever whatever is
Speaker 4: in their cup into you. And what because I've I've
Speaker 4: often wondered what a hard job that must be to
Speaker 4: hold people's stuff. And we do it as actors, but
Speaker 4: short lived. For the Preach character, there's a time it's
Speaker 4: gonna we're gonna cut and then we get to put
Speaker 4: it down and move away from it when you know,
Speaker 4: use our tools to do that. And but that's also
Speaker 4: born out of imagination versus really meeting a person who
Speaker 4: is pouring into you their stuff. And so for me
Speaker 4: it became an exercise of coming in first with like
Speaker 4: a teacup to a jug to a Stanley cup, you know,
Speaker 4: like sometimes it just kept getting bigger and bigger. The
Speaker 4: cup and the work of what it must be to
Speaker 4: hold can be the container for other people's stuff while
Speaker 4: also going through your own, which was at the time
Speaker 4: she had her own stuff, and if it was just
Speaker 4: a strong reminder and one that I needed at that
Speaker 4: point in my life because I went into that job
Speaker 4: just after my mom moved to heaven, right after she
Speaker 4: moved to heaven, that you've got to deal with your
Speaker 4: stuff before you start trying to tackle anything else. Because
Speaker 4: and that's not to say that I did it right then,
Speaker 4: because I certainly didn't, and I'm still moving through. But
Speaker 4: you got to deal with your stuff and make sure
Speaker 4: you have your broom and try and sweep up as
Speaker 4: much as you can on your side of the street
Speaker 4: or else. This is going to be like a total mess.
Speaker 4: And I feel that even now more strongly now having
Speaker 4: had my daughter m Yeah, that it's like all of
Speaker 4: the stuff, like you, I don't want to give her
Speaker 4: my stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think especially for women, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: think you can do all the big research on all
Speaker 1: the feelings and the therapy without coming across these incredible,
Speaker 1: you know, stories and proofs of this idea of generational inheritance,
Speaker 1: right and what we passed down and particularly this matrilineal
Speaker 1: Wine yep and I think so much about the way
Speaker 1: you talk about your mother's effect and impact on your
Speaker 1: life and the impact that then you have had for
Speaker 1: so long with these characters you play. You know, you've
Speaker 1: you've put yourself into these shows that come part of
Speaker 1: the zeitgeist, that represent people in situations and places we
Speaker 1: haven't seen before, that that are inherently you could say,
Speaker 1: pushing the envelope, creating progress, you could say political in
Speaker 1: simply existing. And I think about the ways that you
Speaker 1: use your platform to speak out for people. And you
Speaker 1: were doing all of this before you had your daughter,
Speaker 1: who you knew you were going to pass the world too.
Speaker 1: And I wonder if it does it all make sense
Speaker 1: to you now, like, oh, of course it was always
Speaker 1: for her, Or does it make you want to double
Speaker 1: down on who you are and how brave you are
Speaker 1: and and the person you are out in the world
Speaker 1: because of her?
Speaker 4: Oh, me want to double down? It makes sense, But
Speaker 4: it makes me want to double down, especially now you
Speaker 4: know we open this conversation we're talking about like DNC.
Speaker 4: When I think about like the world and the world
Speaker 4: as it exists today and the world that could potentially
Speaker 4: exist once I moved to have it God willing, please
Speaker 4: take me down everybody. You know, Like, when I'm not
Speaker 4: here with her anymore, it's like, what am I going
Speaker 4: to leave her? Because I was left with the law
Speaker 4: and I do not want to leave her with less
Speaker 4: than I was given. Yeah, you know, Maya Angelou has
Speaker 4: a quote from her poem, has a line in her
Speaker 4: poem on the dusk on the dawn of morning, dusk
Speaker 4: of morning, excuse me, And the line says that our
Speaker 4: passages have been paid for. And my passage was paid for,
Speaker 4: and I want to do everything in my power to
Speaker 4: fight for the things that I believe in, to stand
Speaker 4: up to the people or ideas that counter the good
Speaker 4: of my child to ensure that her passage was paid
Speaker 4: for as well. You know, I'm ferocious about that, and
Speaker 4: I don't know that I knew that how ferocious I was,
Speaker 4: and I didn't need to be a mom to be that.
Speaker 1: Let me be here.
Speaker 4: We all have that, any person who has passion for
Speaker 4: the life of another person. But it has made me
Speaker 4: want to just make sure that I pour into her
Speaker 4: as I was poured into m.
Speaker 1: HM and now for our sponsors. So when you think
Speaker 1: about that, you know, and you said earlier the book
Speaker 1: that you thought you were going to write changed in
Speaker 1: between deciding what the book was about and beginning to
Speaker 1: write it. Your mom was diagnosed. When you think about
Speaker 1: then having to set out to pour into these pages
Speaker 1: to make the road is good, which is also the
Speaker 1: meaning of your name, it feels really emotional just as
Speaker 1: a person talking to you about it. How did you
Speaker 1: begin to kind of make sense of, Oh, these are
Speaker 1: the things I have to write down. These are the
Speaker 1: stories I know I want to preserve because of course
Speaker 1: it's for the reader, but it's also for.
Speaker 4: You, Yeah, you know, I think for me. How I
Speaker 4: started to get the sense of what to write down
Speaker 4: and to include was first starting to think about what
Speaker 4: we're if we're going to stay with this, like road metaphor, right,
Speaker 4: what were the intersections in the road my mother's story
Speaker 4: crossed with mine in terms when she was a kid,
Speaker 4: my age, and my experiences those overlaps, And then where
Speaker 4: were those forks in the road where my life diverged
Speaker 4: from hers, or where I could clearly see like no,
Speaker 4: if I had done this way, life would have been
Speaker 4: totally different in a trip. But I went this way,
Speaker 4: and so I want to include those points in the story,
Speaker 4: and then I think the final piece was thinking about
Speaker 4: my name and its meaning. My name means the road
Speaker 4: is good, but what it's slightly more nuanced, and it
Speaker 4: means like the journey was worth It means like if
Speaker 4: you were to come to my house and we were
Speaker 4: supposed to meet at three, but you got a flat
Speaker 4: tire and then torrential rain came down, and oh, man,
Speaker 4: there's an accident on the side of the road and
Speaker 4: fifty car pile up and ran out again because you
Speaker 4: were in traffic so long, and now you're here at
Speaker 4: four thirty, an hour and a half late. But the
Speaker 4: sun suddenly came out and it's beautiful, and I would say,
Speaker 4: too came my goals or how was how was the trip?
Speaker 4: The journey? And you would say, oh, Zamaka, it was hard,
Speaker 4: but it's worth it because I'm here now with you.
Speaker 4: Is what it means. The journey here wasn't easy, It
Speaker 4: wasn't ave. The road is muddy and has potholes and
Speaker 4: and and you know it has gravel sometimes, but all
Speaker 4: of that was worth it because it brought me here.
Speaker 4: And that's why my parents named me that. You know,
Speaker 4: my mom, you can read people will read it in
Speaker 4: the book. It's like she survived polio. My mother survived
Speaker 4: the the Affrons civil war against her people, which she
Speaker 4: like worked in and like crazy capacity, you know, like
Speaker 4: for the government and for writers. She had been through
Speaker 4: a lot, you know, had been through a lot. And
Speaker 4: she said she was widowed at thirty six, you know,
Speaker 4: and then she still had me and was like it
Speaker 4: was all worth it because you're here.
Speaker 1: I actually, it's funny. I took a I went back
Speaker 1: through my notes and I I was looking at really,
Speaker 1: I guess it's the preface of the book where you're
Speaker 1: explaining this. And the thing that I really love about
Speaker 1: it when you talk about the fact that it's so
Speaker 1: much more nuanced than all of it being good, right,
Speaker 1: is that you're you actually carry gratitude in the response,
Speaker 1: which is your name for the whole journey. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I think to be able to see the purpose in
Speaker 1: the pain and be grateful for the joy and all
Speaker 1: all of it. You know, it's it's really everything you've
Speaker 1: ever been through that has brought you to this point
Speaker 1: that you are in your life. And I think when
Speaker 1: you can resoundingly lean into the gratitude for your journey
Speaker 1: and not be so mad about what was tough. Everything changes, yes,
Speaker 1: and it that that I believe is a magical experience
Speaker 1: as a human And that's what this book feels like
Speaker 1: for me as a reader. Like your whole book, your
Speaker 1: story and your mother's story are so incredibly unique. Obviously,
Speaker 1: I've never lived through a civil war, nor had pollio,
Speaker 1: but ah, like I see myself in this book. This
Speaker 1: this like beautiful, real, muddy humanness, and it's I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's really you know, I'm a I'm a nerd who
Speaker 1: likes to read, and this is it's really so tremendously special.
Speaker 1: I just really thank you for sharing in the way.
Speaker 4: They thank you, thank you. And it wasn't easy. You know,
Speaker 4: it's not easy. Thank you for that. Seriously, it wasn't
Speaker 4: easy because you know, you get uncomfortable wondering, like, oh my,
Speaker 4: you're saying these things out loud and so open sharing
Speaker 4: it with the world. But yeah, so open, and I'm
Speaker 4: not I share with my circle, but I'm not like
Speaker 4: a world chair typically And it's been which is probably
Speaker 4: why I have nerves going into its relief, because I like,
Speaker 4: is it possible to like not? But you know, it's
Speaker 4: not already no, but it's like it gave me such
Speaker 4: a release and a relief to put some of these
Speaker 4: things down on paper and to tell my truth in
Speaker 4: that way. And who and what Also like what a
Speaker 4: I didn't know it when it was happening, but like
Speaker 4: what a gift and come for stations and time I
Speaker 4: gave me, but also gave her to get to just
Speaker 4: talk about her life.
Speaker 1: And did getting to have these conversations with her, you know,
Speaker 1: whether you talk about how for her your your teeth
Speaker 1: or such a mark of beauty. You talk in the
Speaker 1: book about how for such a long time you wanted
Speaker 1: to change your name, you know, to Zoe because easy
Speaker 1: American assimilation story, And then there's so much about how,
Speaker 1: in whatever way you felt that you wanted to blend in,
Speaker 1: you've really taken up the mantle and standing out and
Speaker 1: being exactly who you are that I know is a
Speaker 1: life's work. But in having these conversations with her, do
Speaker 1: you feel like you got that that sort of confidence
Speaker 1: and purpose and sense of self like just high dose
Speaker 1: like mainline into the veins, like oh my god, this
Speaker 1: is why I'm here and this is my this is
Speaker 1: my whole destiny to be here and I'm seeing it
Speaker 1: in myself because of her.
Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely, you know, like I feel like I've arrived now,
Speaker 4: you know, like I think, I think I didn't even realize.
Speaker 4: Whether it's like the quitting with Orange, whether it's my gap,
Speaker 4: whether it's my name, whether it's being the only you
Speaker 4: know Nigerians in our hometown. All of these things, whether
Speaker 4: it's hearing no, you know, all of these things were
Speaker 4: the walk along the road that we're making it hard,
Speaker 4: including having to figure out how to live without her,
Speaker 4: But all of that was worth it because I'm here
Speaker 4: now and it would not be where I am right now,
Speaker 4: in this space, in this moment in my life, able
Speaker 4: to hold my head up high proudly say that my
Speaker 4: name is Uzama with the fully open gap inside my
Speaker 4: mouth splintering my two front teeth, and say that proudly
Speaker 4: and say too that I am proud to be none yeah,
Speaker 4: my Aduba's daughter. That all of that had to happen
Speaker 4: for me to be able to say and do that.
Speaker 1: Hm, that's so beautiful from this place, you know, this fullness.
Speaker 1: I know there's nerves obviously about about the book because
Speaker 1: it's you and your life and it's about to be
Speaker 1: out in the world. Do do you look around and
Speaker 1: immediately have a next drive, you know, some next motivation
Speaker 1: or are you really trying to just be present and
Speaker 1: relish in this moment and this feeling, or are you
Speaker 1: you know, every the accomplished woman that you are multitasking
Speaker 1: and doing it all at the same time.
Speaker 4: I'm doing other things. But I am. I love that question.
Speaker 4: I really do, like I am really trying to stay
Speaker 4: in the presence of this, mostly because I think even still,
Speaker 4: it's it's easier to push it away and specifically to
Speaker 4: this book, to not sit in it and memorialize all
Speaker 4: the parts of it because of the discomfort that it
Speaker 4: might bring up that point, the nerves, all these things, sadness,
Speaker 4: all these things. But it's like I want to stay
Speaker 4: in that. I want to I want I want to
Speaker 4: give my life, my mom's life, the honor and respect
Speaker 4: and time that they both that they deserve to stay
Speaker 4: in it. But I have things going in the background,
Speaker 4: you know still, you know, like I'm producing now that
Speaker 4: we you and I'm mutually our teen angel City go see,
Speaker 4: you know, like we have things always going. But I
Speaker 4: do want to like stand in celebration of this moment
Speaker 4: because I've never done anything like this before.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's sort of incredible. You look around at
Speaker 1: your life and you think, God, I've achieved all of
Speaker 1: these things. And in a way, every time something happens
Speaker 1: and then the next thing requires a new start. You know,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a neat I always joke that it's
Speaker 1: like the coolest and the most stressful part of what
Speaker 1: we do for a living. Yes, but it is beautiful
Speaker 1: and it's very cool to get to watch you in
Speaker 1: this moment. It's it's really for me, always something I
Speaker 1: cherish when I can palpably feel the joy of people
Speaker 1: that I really adore. I'm like, God, this is nice.
Speaker 1: Good for you. I'm so happy for you.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 1: In this in this moment, you know, as you as
Speaker 1: you try to hold all of it, and there's all
Speaker 1: sorts of things going on. What feels like your work
Speaker 1: in progress? Is it as a mom is it personal?
Speaker 1: Is it professional? Is it kind of a mix of
Speaker 1: all things?
Speaker 4: I mean, definitely, motherhood is a for sure work in progress.
Speaker 4: Just I think I'm constantly defining, redefining, having no definition
Speaker 4: of the type of the type of mother I want
Speaker 4: to be, not because of like what I think I
Speaker 4: should be but like, like she's ten months and I'm
Speaker 4: so clear that she's already paying attention and what she
Speaker 4: is paying attention to I don't know, hopefully, but I
Speaker 4: am aware that I that she's awake. Yeah, and I
Speaker 4: want to be sure that what she's taking in to
Speaker 4: the best of my ability are things that I want
Speaker 4: her to hold on too, like and for them to
Speaker 4: be true things, not like things that she saw me
Speaker 4: do that aren't true, or you know that like now
Speaker 4: she thinks like you can't you must wear makeup every day,
Speaker 4: you must you know whatever, you know, little things like
Speaker 4: that that I don't want her to not that I
Speaker 4: but you know, I just don't want to adopt things
Speaker 4: as truths that now start to define her. And that's
Speaker 4: been interesting because it's like I almost think motherhood is
Speaker 4: teaching me a lot about me too in that capacity,
Speaker 4: like my words, because I know she's listening. I'm like,
Speaker 4: are you really gonna say that about your she's listening,
Speaker 4: do you know what I'm saying? That's what I mean
Speaker 4: about truth. So that's definitely like a work in progress,
Speaker 4: which I guess in term means that I'm just like
Speaker 4: in progress for myself too in some ways. And I
Speaker 4: guess also I'm a little bit of work in progress,
Speaker 4: Like I see it at my baby patience not a
Speaker 4: super patient, per I always am like when when when
Speaker 4: when you know and I can see my daughter, I'm like,
Speaker 4: she might be getting that for me, Like she's like,
Speaker 4: I'm like, no, you got I get to work on
Speaker 4: my patients, to teach her patient. Yeah, And by that
Speaker 4: I mean like to not to not question that's or
Speaker 4: to wonder beyond this moment right here. M it will
Speaker 4: come when it's meant to come.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's so hard, especially I think when you have,
Speaker 1: as you were saying earlier, that kind of ferocious love
Speaker 1: for other people, for a community, for justice, like God,
Speaker 1: patience is so tough. But I think there's it's not
Speaker 1: an accident that we're having this conversation about you and
Speaker 1: your daughter, and we've also been having this conversation about
Speaker 1: you and your mother. Because I have to remind myself
Speaker 1: when I hope for a quick solution or when when when,
Speaker 1: as you're saying, I remind myself that we're in this
Speaker 1: generational project together and that each generation has its work
Speaker 1: to do, and that's the one thing that sort of
Speaker 1: helps me flow down. So you're giving me a very
Speaker 1: nice reminder of that today talking about the generations of
Speaker 1: your own family. So thank you.
Speaker 4: Thank you for that. Well, the baby taught it to
Speaker 4: us both.
Speaker 1: Listen, babies are magical.
Speaker 4: Yes, indeed.
Speaker 1: Well, I know we're just coming up on time, and
Speaker 1: I want to make sure I get you out on time.
Speaker 1: Thank you for today. I just yeah, I said it earlier.
Speaker 1: You one of my favorite people to be within a room,
Speaker 1: and I love getting to sit and just digitally hug
Speaker 1: on you today.
Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you for making me a part of
Speaker 4: this podcast. I think it's such a wildly awesome cool show,
Speaker 4: you know, like especially bringing like so many people together
Speaker 4: to talk about the the version of ourselves that people
Speaker 4: maybe think they know and then see the stuff that's
Speaker 4: going on underneath and allowing the space to sort of
Speaker 4: explore that dig in. Yeah, and and you know, like
Speaker 4: you already said it in some form earlier where it's
Speaker 4: like the mess and the you know, like is what
Speaker 4: is actually the imperfection is what is making us all beautiful?
Speaker 4: And yeah, yeah, it's just great. Thank you, a great show.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you so much that means a lot