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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress, the

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Speaker 1: Hey with Smarties. Today we are joined by a woman

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Speaker 1: that I absolutely adore.

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Speaker 2: A formidable talent to be reckoned with.

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Speaker 1: A three time Emmy Award winning, Tony Award nominated actress

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Speaker 1: whose work spands television, film, and theater. Today's guest is

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Speaker 1: none other than u Zo Aduba. She was born in Boston, Massachusetts,

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Speaker 1: to parents who immigrated to this country from Nigeria. She

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Speaker 1: eventually moved to New York to pursue acting and gained

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Speaker 1: wide recognition for her role as Suzanne Crazy Eyes Warren

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Speaker 1: on the Netflix original series Orange Is the New Black.

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Speaker 1: She won an Emmy Award for Outstanding Guest Actress in

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Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, an Emmy Award for Outstanding Supporting Actress in

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Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, to two wo SAG Awards for Outstanding Performance

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Speaker 1: by a Female Actor in a Comedy Series. She is

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Speaker 1: also one of only two actors to win an Emmy

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Speaker 1: Award in both the Comedy and Drama categories for the

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Speaker 1: same role. She's a Legend. In twenty twenty, she played

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Speaker 1: Shirley Chisholm in the Hulu mini series Missus America. For

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Speaker 1: which she also won an Emmy Award. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: it's the coolest glimpse into the history that women have

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Speaker 1: made in this country. If you haven't seen it, you

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Speaker 1: must watch it immediately. I could literally spend the next

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Speaker 1: three minutes reading the rest of her resume. But whether

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Speaker 1: it's film, television, broadway, Uzo Aduba is an absolute force.

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Speaker 1: Now she is producing. She has a multi year deal

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Speaker 1: with CBS Studios. She has set up over a dozen

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Speaker 1: series projects. I don't know where she finds the time.

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Speaker 1: And to add to this incredible resume, she is now

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Speaker 1: a first time author. Her book The Road Is Good.

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Speaker 1: How a Mother's Strength Became a Daughter's Purpose is a

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Speaker 1: powerful memoir about immigrant identity, the story of an unforgettable matriarch.

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Speaker 1: Huzzo's mom is one of a kind. You feel like

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Speaker 1: you get to know her in these pages, and in

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Speaker 1: some way, I think her uniqueness is what will make

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Speaker 1: her feel universal to all of you. She reminded me

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Speaker 1: in my own ways, of my own family and our

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Speaker 1: own story. It's just such a beautiful page turner about

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Speaker 1: a girl grappling with a master juggling act, growing up

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Speaker 1: one of one in a community, and learning to take

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Speaker 1: that feeling of being othered and turn it into unique beauty.

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Speaker 1: This book is more than just the journey of a

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Speaker 1: young woman has determined to survive young adulthood. It's the

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Speaker 1: story of how an incredible mother can be such a

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Speaker 1: testament to stepping into your power. It's so good that

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Speaker 1: I'm going to stop talking so that we can dive

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Speaker 1: into this interview and you can hear the marvelous Zoa

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Speaker 1: Duba speak on this herself.

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Speaker 3: Enjoy Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for coming.

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Speaker 2: How are you feeling with the book and everything I'm feeling.

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Speaker 4: I'm feeling a bunch of different feelings, to be honest

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Speaker 4: with you, I'm feeling excited, nervous, curious, happy, sometimes a

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Speaker 4: little sad, but supremely thankful at the end of the

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Speaker 4: day because I was like, oh, man, I wish my

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Speaker 4: mom was here to get to like see it, you know,

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Speaker 4: and let's all come together, which is like, of course,

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Speaker 4: you know, a bummer generally, But at the same time,

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Speaker 4: on the other side, I'm like, oh my gosh, thank

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Speaker 4: god we got to have that time together and her

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Speaker 4: to like pour back over me, you know, all all

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Speaker 4: of the lessons and experiences and stories and things that

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Speaker 4: we've gone through, seen together or before, be reminded of

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Speaker 4: her own story with that like detail of knowing you know,

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Speaker 4: I'm really telling this to you and I needed to

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Speaker 4: hold on to it. So yeah, I'm glad that I

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Speaker 4: even had that opportunity.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I guess it's just really striking me

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Speaker 1: in real time that that is this sort of silver

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Speaker 1: lining of a tragedy is when you know time is fleeting,

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Speaker 1: rather than it ending out of the blue, you probably

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Speaker 1: get to gather and be together and communicate in ways

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Speaker 1: that are deeper. Perhaps then the way we can just

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Speaker 1: walk through the world sometimes taking for granted a moment

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Speaker 1: with someone you love or you know.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, my my dear dear friend Iris, she said it

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Speaker 4: to me once as she had her life had been

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Speaker 4: touched by cancer, and she said it, you know, just

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Speaker 4: sort of just said it. She was like, you know,

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Speaker 4: there's a strange there's a strange blessing in cancer. It

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Speaker 4: gives you time to say and do all the things,

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Speaker 4: you know, which is true because you don't want it,

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Speaker 4: and you know, I would rather us not to have that.

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Speaker 4: This is we're candid out blessings. Don't give me that one,

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Speaker 4: you know.

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Speaker 2: What I mean, Like I would have loved to have

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Speaker 2: perhaps picked a.

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Speaker 4: Different one exactly exactly, but it is that sort of fortune.

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Speaker 4: And like we had started this book that had scotten,

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Speaker 4: had the proposal draft, started the proposal and was in

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Speaker 4: connection with my publisher, Viking before my mom was six.

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Speaker 4: So then when I sat down to write it, she

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Speaker 4: was six. So when we started diving into some of

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Speaker 4: these you know, stories in this proposal, with the proposal

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Speaker 4: that was not the book I was setting out to write, honestly,

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Speaker 4: the book that I wrote, the book that I was

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Speaker 4: setting out to write. I thought it was just going to.

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Speaker 5: Be like, yeah, lessons exactly, lessons are just being black lah,

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Speaker 5: you know, like that's going to be like the book.

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Speaker 4: And then it was like, oh wait, now like these lessons,

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Speaker 4: I got to really hear these lessons and like really

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Speaker 4: get her story and like, so yeah, anyway.

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Speaker 1: Wow, this is incredible. I have so many more questions obviously,

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Speaker 1: because you you know, my friend just wrote a book. Hello,

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Speaker 1: But I I really like to go back with people

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Speaker 1: before we go to my favorite first official question to

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Speaker 1: ask someone. I actually have to do a sort of

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Speaker 1: in between the now and then and just rewind us

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Speaker 1: like a quick couple of weeks and say, I got

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Speaker 1: to recap the DNC with you because it was so

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Speaker 1: special to be there. It was so special for me.

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Speaker 1: It's not lost on me that I always see you

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Speaker 1: in my favorite and seemingly most like spiritually or soulfully

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Speaker 1: important rooms. I'm always like, yeah, of course, here this trap.

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Speaker 1: And I was saying when I got home to my partner,

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I bawled like a baby every

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Speaker 1: single night. There was like a point in the night

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Speaker 1: where I'd be like, tonight, I'm not going to cry,

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Speaker 1: and then I would just sob Did you have that too?

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Speaker 1: Did you? Were you in the sort of washing machine

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Speaker 1: of excitement and overwhelm or did you just like keep

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Speaker 1: it together better?

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Speaker 4: No? No, no, no, no. I was in. I was

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Speaker 4: in in the tears room. I was in the joy

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Speaker 4: bounce house room. I was in like the college lecture,

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Speaker 4: lean in and listen to Professor Presidents Barack Obama and

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Speaker 4: first Lady Professor Michelle ob You know. I was all

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Speaker 4: of those things. And then the culmination of her ascendants

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Speaker 4: to the state of presidential formal presidential nominee that was

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Speaker 4: it was overwhelming and yes, like we have been in

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Speaker 4: those spaces, even if we are to chart and track

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Speaker 4: you and I in January twenty seventeen being in Washington, DC,

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Speaker 4: you remember all those women yes, and the response and

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Speaker 4: the weight of that moment. And then to flash ourselves

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Speaker 4: forward a short eight years later, seven and three quarters

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Speaker 4: years later, and here we are now again, gathered, but

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Speaker 4: this time watching it not only happen again, but feeling

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Speaker 4: the understanding of the real possibility that even it that

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Speaker 4: we're not going back, I mean, like to quote her directly,

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Speaker 4: when we're not going back, you know that we're America

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Speaker 4: is determining, determined in some capacity to push forward, because

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Speaker 4: here we are trying it yet again.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, determined in some capacity to be what we

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Speaker 1: claim to be to be for everyone. It's not supposed

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Speaker 1: to be that hard. But obviously we've all studied our history,

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Speaker 1: and to feel really close to it in this way

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Speaker 1: now after where we've all been feels, you know, I think,

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Speaker 1: even more magical than it did the first potential time around,

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Speaker 1: when we thought, oh, we might have a president that

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Speaker 1: also represents us as women, you know, and it I

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Speaker 1: don't know, it hits me especially, I wonder if it

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Speaker 1: does for you too, I mean, you obviously have the

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Speaker 1: completely different experience. I can only watch, but I don't

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Speaker 1: in habit of being a black woman watching a black

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Speaker 1: woman being nominated for this office. And I think about

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Speaker 1: it just what it means to me for women in general,

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Speaker 1: and that she manages for us, you know, as people

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Speaker 1: lucky enough to reside in California, we've gotten to watch

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Speaker 1: her for so long in all of these different offices

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Speaker 1: to lead, you know, in small ways when not a

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Speaker 1: ton of people were paying attention, maybe outside of our state,

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Speaker 1: and in these massive ways, you know, for all of

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Speaker 1: us across the nation now, and it's I don't know,

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Speaker 1: it's like so silly, not her mom, but I have

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Speaker 1: this very intense like sense of pride. I'm like, that's

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Speaker 1: our girl, that's our attorney general, and.

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Speaker 4: You know she is well, and you think about it,

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Speaker 4: what like it's like, I definitely one hundred percent agree

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Speaker 4: with you. I think of it in terms of being

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Speaker 4: a woman. I think of it in terms of being

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Speaker 4: a black woman, a woman of color, O first generation woman,

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Speaker 4: you know, which as a child of immigrants. You know,

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Speaker 4: I connect. I really do see my story when I

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Speaker 4: see her up.

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Speaker 1: There to.

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Speaker 4: What it takes to carve out a life for yourself

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Speaker 4: as immigrants in America, and that all you want really

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Speaker 4: is just to see the American dream made possible for

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Speaker 4: your own children. My mother growing up. My American dream

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Speaker 4: is for you people to live your dream. That's that's

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Speaker 4: the goal. That's the simple goal. And for her to

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Speaker 4: have not only met it, but you know, multiplied at

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Speaker 4: times one thousand, is just a testament to her strength

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Speaker 4: or intelligence, her ability, her capability, her readiness. You know,

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Speaker 4: somebody who has been a courtroom prosecutor, elevated to district attorney,

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Speaker 4: elevated to attorney general, elevated. And by the way, when

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Speaker 4: I say elevated, it's elected, really yes, elected to the

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Speaker 4: office of US Senator, which is in itself as a

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Speaker 4: black woman is underrepresented, and then finally elected to the

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Speaker 4: office of Vice president, and now seeking the votes and

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Speaker 4: election of president. You know, in a space where that

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Speaker 4: just has not been done, It hasn't happened. There hasn't

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Speaker 4: never been a female president yet. And that she has

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Speaker 4: all of these high, high elevated marks on her resume

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Speaker 4: and experience as compared to the other side. I think

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Speaker 4: also women that resumes with a lot of women as well.

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Speaker 4: How hard you have to work to even be seen. Yes,

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Speaker 4: you're nineteen thousand points of experience on your resume and

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Speaker 4: still be questioned yes.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, I mean I think I think today we're

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Speaker 1: what fifty days out on the day of recording together,

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Speaker 1: so let's keep our feet on the gas America. So

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Speaker 1: it's it's a perfect kind of transition point because the

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Speaker 1: usual first question I like to ask people is this,

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Speaker 1: And we're talking about in your answer to the last question,

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Speaker 1: some of the way that you grew up. And I

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Speaker 1: think about this a lot because I get to sit

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Speaker 1: down with people when you're so known for something or

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Speaker 1: so many things as you are, and I like to

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Speaker 1: know who you were before we all knew you. And

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Speaker 1: I wonder if you could, you know, jumped into the

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Speaker 1: space time continuum and sit down with your eight year

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Speaker 1: old self, would you see this version of yourself in her?

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Speaker 1: Or did everything following the path of your life wind

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Speaker 1: up surprising you? Or is it maybe a little bit

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Speaker 1: of both.

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Speaker 4: I would say a little bit of both. I am,

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Speaker 4: thankfully a lot calmer than I was. Anyone would tell

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Speaker 4: you my siblings, any person, I was very precocious, wild

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Speaker 4: imagination thought. But that part I think is still true.

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Speaker 4: You know, I've always thought anything is possible. Anything. I

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Speaker 4: still think that. Maybe that's dangerous, I don't know, but

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Speaker 4: I think anything is possible. And so I'm glad that

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Speaker 4: part of myself still exists. But oh man, when I

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Speaker 4: was a kid, I was like ripping. I was like,

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Speaker 4: good on, you know what I mean, every all of

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Speaker 4: those idea. I was like, let's drive them off, you know,

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Speaker 4: like let's make a parachute out of our bed sheets

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Speaker 4: and jump off the roof. And it's like no, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 4: Like you know, that actually doesn't work. Little girl, You know,

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Speaker 4: That's that's what I'm talking about, you know a little

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Speaker 4: bit of like what is it Ramona Quimby? If you

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Speaker 4: ever read those books, He's Ramona Quimby. I had a

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Speaker 4: lot of romonic Q. Wimby and me when I was little.

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Speaker 4: And but yeah, but I also believed anything was possible.

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Speaker 4: Something that was told to me by my mom, my

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Speaker 4: mom an example to me by her as well. Right

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Speaker 4: over here you can't quite see it, but like this

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Speaker 4: little piece of wood that's back there is a little

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Speaker 4: quote of hers as a quote of hers that she

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Speaker 4: used to say to my siblings and I our whole lives,

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Speaker 4: and it was I've never heard of nothing coming from

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Speaker 4: hard work and the living, breathing example of that to me,

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Speaker 4: and it stuck with all of my siblings, and when

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Speaker 4: she said it to me before I moved to New York,

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Speaker 4: when I first started out, it really stuck like gum

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Speaker 4: to my bones, like I've seen this woman do this,

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Speaker 4: and I'm just gonna have to work harder than I've

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Speaker 4: ever worked before to try and make this happen if

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Speaker 4: I'm serious, Because I think she knows what she's talking about,

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Speaker 4: and I think I would say that is like something

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Speaker 4: that's always been a part of me, like just like,

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Speaker 4: let's get down and dirty and work with this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute. But here's

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Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors. Well, And I imagine that

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Speaker 1: that is so indicative of who she was and her

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Speaker 1: spirit and also, as you mentioned earlier, part of a

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Speaker 1: thing that I think any child of immigrants goes, Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: that kind of work ethic, that willing to do what

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Speaker 1: it takes, and then some it is something I think

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Speaker 1: so many people who come here share, and I wonder

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Speaker 1: what for you growing up, and you know, before you

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Speaker 1: moved to New York and your Massachusetts suburb was like

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Speaker 1: you know, I know you talk in the book about

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Speaker 1: how there weren't many people who looked like you where

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Speaker 1: you grew up, and probably not a lot of people

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Speaker 1: who came from where your parents came from. And were

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Speaker 1: you always aware of that experience of being an immigrant

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Speaker 1: family in your community.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely, so definitely always aware. I remember, and I'm

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Speaker 4: still friends with one of my neighbors, Karen Lung. She

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Speaker 4: lives here in La too, and her she was first gen.

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Speaker 4: She is first gen too. Her family's from China, and

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Speaker 4: she lived around the corner. And my best friend, Simmy

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Speaker 4: was let's girl right here. Oh, Simmy also first Jen

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Speaker 4: her family from India. We've been friends since thirteen. And

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Speaker 4: that was it in our town. Maybe in my grade,

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Speaker 4: I should say, that was it. I have one more girl,

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Speaker 4: and that was it, you know, like very very very small,

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Speaker 4: few spatterings, and none of them African, none of them Nigerian,

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Speaker 4: you know, and so it was it was you are

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Speaker 4: aware as you're unpacking your lunch and everybody's like, what's that,

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Speaker 4: you know, and You're like it's Choe Off Race and

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Speaker 4: it's delicious, you know, you know, it's amazing delicious, It's delicious.

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Speaker 4: You know, I mean really just want like Peb and

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Speaker 4: Jay like everybody else. You know, it's from it's that

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Speaker 4: wide to them getting more granular too, quite literally, you know,

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Speaker 4: something as mundane as wanting to talk about hair or

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Speaker 4: you know, there's you remember, Disney used to have like

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Speaker 4: on Sunday, like Disney movies like Made for Sunday Night Night,

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Speaker 4: I forget what it's called, and Wonder World World of

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Speaker 4: Disney or something like this, and you know, everybody would

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Speaker 4: watch all the Disney things. And then this one that

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Speaker 4: came out called Polly that was like an all black

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Speaker 4: adaptation of Pollyanna that I watched an all a family watch.

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Speaker 4: When you come to school and you're like, did you

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Speaker 4: guys watch Polly last night? And they're like, no, what's that?

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Speaker 4: And you're just curious why no one tuned in to

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Speaker 4: watch that one but tuned into the four before that,

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Speaker 4: you know, to then as real as the experiences that

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Speaker 4: we talk about today in culture, you know, just your

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Speaker 4: family is walking in the neighborhood, you have an honor

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Speaker 4: uncle visiting and people aren't familiar with who they are,

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Speaker 4: and then all of a sudden the police show up,

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Speaker 4: and you know, things like this, You know you're so

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Speaker 4: you have alerts that are making you aware along the way.

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Speaker 4: I'm I'm different for some people here, but also then

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Speaker 4: some amazing people who are celebrating you in that difference.

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Speaker 4: Also something that I'm also grateful or grateful for that

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Speaker 4: there were some people in our community and in my

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Speaker 4: life friends of mine as well, who saw that difference,

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Speaker 4: celebrated it and really were, you know, protectors for my parents,

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Speaker 4: me and my siblings to help us sort of shuttle

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Speaker 4: through and get through at points. But yeah, I think

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Speaker 4: every kid just wants to fit in, surpritinly whatever your

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Speaker 4: difference is. Yeah, and you're just trying to find your

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Speaker 4: space in the world. But I'm thankful that I did

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Speaker 4: discover and learn that, you know, my differences are important,

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Speaker 4: and I'm really grateful it's taught like to hold on

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Speaker 4: to them, whether that's my name, whether that's my gap,

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Speaker 4: you know, all these things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think about that a lot when you smile,

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Speaker 1: and like friends of mine who have the most arrestingly

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Speaker 1: beautiful facial characteristic like your gap, and I think, like, God,

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Speaker 1: I'm so relieved that not everyone's been convinced to erase

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Speaker 1: their uniqueness. I didn't get a cool gap. I had

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Speaker 1: to get braces because my canine teeth came in up here,

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Speaker 1: and I.

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Speaker 2: Was like, it was, I'll find you a photo.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes deeply, deeply not cute, deeply needed to be fixed.

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Speaker 1: But I just like, I don't know, I was always struck.

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Speaker 1: Lauren Hutton said this thing a long time ago.

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Speaker 4: That was it her?

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Speaker 1: Or was it Jamie Lee Curtis. One of them said

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Speaker 1: something about how they were afraid that given the sort

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Speaker 1: of culture we find ourselves in, with everybody getting so

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Speaker 1: much done to themselves, they said, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: we're erasing a whole generation of beauty.

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Speaker 4: Oh yes.

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Speaker 1: To be given the ability to cherish who you are

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Speaker 1: in your uniqueness, I think is so important when you're young,

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Speaker 1: because everyone gets picked on for whatever reason. They might

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Speaker 1: be different when we're young, because kids are amazing and

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Speaker 1: they're also so mean, and it's like you grow up

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Speaker 1: and the thing you get picked on for is the

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Speaker 1: thing that becomes the most beautiful and celebrated about you.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know, I love that. I love hearing

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Speaker 1: about the kind of household you grew up in where

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Speaker 1: you were. Yes, of course you were aware, but it

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Speaker 1: seems like you really were given an awareness of the

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Speaker 1: whole spectrum of experience from what was hard to what

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Speaker 1: was beautiful, and you were always taught to hold on

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Speaker 1: to yourself in it. And that's so cool.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I think, I mean, it's like not

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Speaker 4: to talk so much about her, but I mean, I'm

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Speaker 4: happy to talk about my mom all the time. But

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Speaker 4: it's like, you know, she was coming from a place

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Speaker 4: where a gap is a sign of beauty in Africa,

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Speaker 4: so she not getting my issue, you know, And I

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Speaker 4: was I was begging her for braces and my team

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Speaker 4: are perfectly fine, you know, like there's there, there's nothing

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Speaker 4: there except that I have a gap. And she'd be like, oozo,

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Speaker 4: don't you know that in Nigeria a gap is a

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Speaker 4: sign of beauty. And I was like, we live in

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Speaker 4: medfield messages as you mom exactly then you know what

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Speaker 4: I mean, like that kind of a thing. But thank god,

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Speaker 4: she was like really insistent on it, because she would

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Speaker 4: go on and she's like everyone in our family, my

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Speaker 4: family has what she coined a'm you all cool, which

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Speaker 4: is her maiden name. Gap Everyone has it and I

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Speaker 4: don't have it, and I wish I had it, and

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Speaker 4: it's like, thank god I didn't, because I grew up

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Speaker 4: and I fell in love with my smiles. I even

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Speaker 4: have a hard time now so they honestly, like on

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Speaker 4: the carpet sometimes when it's like giving fear space, like

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Speaker 4: because for so many years I'm not checking. For so

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Speaker 4: many years when I was a kid, I would not

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Speaker 4: smile a closed mouth smile like this is my face

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Speaker 4: like that, just because I didn't like it. And then

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Speaker 4: just because of a photographer for my senior high school

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Speaker 4: pictures said I think you have a beautiful smile. It

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Speaker 4: changed my whole world to the point I started smiling

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Speaker 4: all the time. And now I'm on carpets and I'm

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Speaker 4: trying to give like a fierce faith. I can't because

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Speaker 4: I love to smile. Now I feel like I'm making

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Speaker 4: up for lost smiles, you know, likes of just not

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Speaker 4: doing it that. I'm like, I love my smile now,

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Speaker 4: and I'm so thankful that she didn't let my insecurity,

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Speaker 4: let my difference dictate the woman I would become. She

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Speaker 4: was like, no, you're standing that and You're going to

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Speaker 4: fall in love with yourself.

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Speaker 1: That's so special, And I think about what that gives

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Speaker 1: you too. You know, as you begin to shift your

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Speaker 1: experience and then you're going to leave home and you

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Speaker 1: do as you said, move to New York to try

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Speaker 1: to do this thing. And you know you were working

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Speaker 1: as an actress in the theater. I know that, and

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Speaker 1: I love these stories that right before you booked Oranges

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Speaker 1: the New Black, after the full journey, you were like

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Speaker 1: this close to quitting and then you booked the show.

401
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Speaker 2: Were you did you book that in New York?

402
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Speaker 1: Had you moved to la Like, how did we get

403
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Speaker 1: from this aha moment at the end of high school

404
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Speaker 1: to you almost left the industry and here we are today?

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Speaker 4: Right? I booked it in New York. I had been

406
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Speaker 4: a play and the manager I was working with at

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Speaker 4: the time she I had always let me start with.

408
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Speaker 4: I had always wanted to do film and television, but

409
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Speaker 4: I just had never again, I had not seen anyone

410
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Speaker 4: like myself in that space, so I didn't I didn't

411
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Speaker 4: feel invited to the table in a way that made

412
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Speaker 4: me feel like it was even worth giving it a go.

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Speaker 4: And in the theater space, I felt like I saw more,

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Speaker 4: a little bit more of myself, so I was comfortable there.

415
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Speaker 4: So anyway, so I started working with a manager who

416
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 4: saw me in the play I was doing at the time,

417
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Speaker 4: and she was from Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: Oh God.

419
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Speaker 4: He said that she thought I should give it a

420
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Speaker 4: try to do film and television. And honestly, I genuinely

421
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Speaker 4: believe it's because she was from Hollywood that I was like,

422
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 4: she must know something like that made me get just

423
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Speaker 4: like an inch more confidence. So I started auditioning for

424
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Speaker 4: film and television that summer. She said, We're not going

425
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Speaker 4: to audition for any place, just film and television. And

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Speaker 4: at that point in my career, I was making a

427
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Speaker 4: living doing theater, not a fancy living or anything, just

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00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 4: but up my look, you know. Like, so I was

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Speaker 4: watching my nose for all of my auditions go up

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Speaker 4: and my bank account going down, and I was really doubting,

431
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Speaker 4: Like I just did not think. I thought it was right. Honestly,

432
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 4: I thought it was right in not try having tried,

433
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 4: like this is exactly how I thought it was going

434
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 4: to go, and this is how it's going. And you know,

435
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 4: I had reached the point where I was like, it's

436
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 4: time to get off this you know, this boat, off

437
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 4: this ship and try something else. In tears, I prayed

438
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 4: up and said I was going to go to law

439
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 4: school become alwayer because that's what I thought. I was

440
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,640
Speaker 4: going to do my whole life anyway. And I thought

441
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 4: it was gonna be a lobbyist because I loved political science.

442
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 4: That's gonna moved to DC and be a lobbyist. I

443
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 4: had no idea lobby And then I got home, ordered sushi,

444
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 4: ordered to my sister to come over because I was

445
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 4: going to tell her first, and I was gonna quit.

446
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 4: It was a Friday on Monday. I was gonna call

447
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 4: my manager and my agent at the time and tell

448
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 4: them that I was done. And then five forty three

449
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 4: pm exactly, I'll never forget it. On that Friday in September,

450
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 4: my phone rang and I got the job for Oranges

451
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 4: a New Black, and Wow, my life has never been

452
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 4: the same.

453
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: Rightly, we'll be back in just a minute. After a

454
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: few words from our favorite sponsors. I had to really

455
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: think about this because we forget that this was one

456
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: of the first shows on Netflix. It wasn't this streaming

457
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: juggernaut yet, you know, it was the company that started

458
00:28:55,880 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: with DVDs. They would mail you of movies you could watch. Now,

459
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: I think we almost take for granted how much content

460
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: is available. And you, ladies, I mean, you blew open

461
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: the world of television, of who got to be on TV,

462
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: of what kinds of stories got to be told on TV.

463
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: It was so of color, it was so queer.

464
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 4: It was so.

465
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: Like, I can't even explain it, like the breath of

466
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: fresh air. I felt beginning to watch you all on

467
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: that show, and I was like, Oh, the things that

468
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: feel the most sacred as a storyteller really can happen.

469
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: Was it incredible? Did you have any idea how big

470
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: it would be? Or was the sort of explosion of

471
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 1: it a shock to you as well?

472
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 4: Oh it's total shock, a total shock. And you have

473
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 4: to know this too, write in your own experience that

474
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 4: it's like you can't you make the thing and you

475
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 4: don't know what it's going to be or not be.

476
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 4: And I mean, at this point, like to your point,

477
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 4: it's like Netflix, wasn't I thought it was a web

478
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 4: series if.

479
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: You're asking me, And I was like a short film

480
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: on YouTube exactly.

481
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 4: I was like YouTube, Like people were asking me. I

482
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 4: was like I don't know where it's gonna be a YouTube,

483
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 4: you know, like that sort of thing. So I had

484
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 4: no idea whatsoever. I only one of my castmates, can

485
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 4: I recall, so Lenis Leva, who called it like early.

486
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,239
Speaker 4: She called it early. She was like, I think this

487
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:31,719
Speaker 4: is gonna be good. And I remember sitting with her

488
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 4: being like, why what makes you think? Then she's like,

489
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 4: I don't know.

490
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: I just I just have a feeling.

491
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 4: She's like, it's step a feeling. And I was like, Okay,

492
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 4: we're gonna be massive on YouTube, you know, like this

493
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 4: is gonna be great, you know, like cool. No idea,

494
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 4: but I did know that I had never seen done

495
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,239
Speaker 4: anything like this or seen stories like these told like

496
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 4: I had never been in an experience before where I

497
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 4: had seen so many different groups of women, types of women,

498
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 4: eighs to shades, to energy, to identity to gender, all

499
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 4: of it like I had never seen it, And that

500
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 4: felt and told through stories that were exciting and inspiring

501
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 4: as an actor, I had never had that before, and

502
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 4: that was pretty cool, and I was just happy to

503
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 4: be there, you know. Honestly, we all were. Frankly, we

504
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 4: all were just really into it and stoked and to

505
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 4: see like the full three sixties view of what it

506
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 4: needs to be a woman, that it's like a narrow way.

507
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 4: We'd seen stories told to watch it like wide and

508
00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 4: you know, for another group, yeah, was awesome.

509
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: And how did you This is just a nerdy actor

510
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 1: to actor question. I'm like, how did you prepare for

511
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: that role? You know? What was it like to try

512
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: to figure out how to crack Suzanne?

513
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 4: Yeah? You know, for me, when I read the script

514
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 4: originally and she's introduced, I remember I just thought it

515
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 4: was a love story. I wasn't so focused on Okay,

516
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 4: she's crazy, so now like let's play crazy. I was like, well,

517
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 4: what does that even mean? You know, like because the

518
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 4: description of her is like she's almost like you know,

519
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 4: she's she's what it was like like a child like

520
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 4: she had like a childlike element about hers. I remember

521
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 4: was something in it the description, and I remember latching

522
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 4: onto that, and that to me felt like innocence pure

523
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 4: and that means all of her reactions are they are

524
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 4: not the reactions of an adult, and maybe that might

525
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 4: come across like different or crazy, and I just remember

526
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 4: thinking that was my anchor, that she would do anything

527
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 4: for love, and that was all I was concentrating on

528
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 4: the rest. I was like, what, however it comes out,

529
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 4: it will come out. But what she's trying to communicate

530
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 4: is she does not play with the people. She loves

531
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 4: anything to protect people. She loves anything, even if that

532
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 4: seems off the rails to the outsider, makes perfect sense

533
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 4: to her.

534
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: I love that. And that gives you something too, especially

535
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: in the world of TV, where no matter what is

536
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: in the next script that you had no idea was coming,

537
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: you have a kind of ground zero for her, no matter.

538
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 4: What for yourself.

539
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: Yes, wow, And then you go, I guess I'm just

540
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 1: thinking my brain is, you know, giving me this sort

541
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: of montage of scenes from that show and then scenes

542
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: from in treatment and thinking about this completely different person

543
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 1: you know that you got to play and and what

544
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 1: a cool thing in a way to have to get inside,

545
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,399
Speaker 1: you know, the mind of someone like Suzanne and then

546
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 1: to literally flip in the other direction and play the

547
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: therapist who might treat someone like.

548
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 2: Her exactly like to do that?

549
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 1: Are you just binge watching Esther Perel and Doctor Tama

550
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: or are you reading like the Body keeps the score?

551
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 2: How do you get into that headspace?

552
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 1: Yes?

553
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, the body keeps the score and myself also

554
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 4: being in therapy, although I was not using my therapy sessions,

555
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 4: let me be clear for a character or study. But

556
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:57,320
Speaker 4: therapist is like, she's like, you're watching me exactly. No.

557
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 4: I for that, I kind of thought of Brooke Taylor,

558
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 4: my character and entreatment. I was like, as a container

559
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 4: m her job is to whole. Everybody's gonna come in

560
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 4: here and they are going to pour whatever whatever is

561
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 4: in their cup into you. And what because I've I've

562
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 4: often wondered what a hard job that must be to

563
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 4: hold people's stuff. And we do it as actors, but

564
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 4: short lived. For the Preach character, there's a time it's

565
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 4: gonna we're gonna cut and then we get to put

566
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 4: it down and move away from it when you know,

567
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,879
Speaker 4: use our tools to do that. And but that's also

568
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:56,280
Speaker 4: born out of imagination versus really meeting a person who

569
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 4: is pouring into you their stuff. And so for me

570
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 4: it became an exercise of coming in first with like

571
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 4: a teacup to a jug to a Stanley cup, you know,

572
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 4: like sometimes it just kept getting bigger and bigger. The

573
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 4: cup and the work of what it must be to

574
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 4: hold can be the container for other people's stuff while

575
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 4: also going through your own, which was at the time

576
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 4: she had her own stuff, and if it was just

577
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 4: a strong reminder and one that I needed at that

578
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,399
Speaker 4: point in my life because I went into that job

579
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 4: just after my mom moved to heaven, right after she

580
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 4: moved to heaven, that you've got to deal with your

581
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 4: stuff before you start trying to tackle anything else. Because

582
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 4: and that's not to say that I did it right then,

583
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:03,799
Speaker 4: because I certainly didn't, and I'm still moving through. But

584
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 4: you got to deal with your stuff and make sure

585
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 4: you have your broom and try and sweep up as

586
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:15,320
Speaker 4: much as you can on your side of the street

587
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 4: or else. This is going to be like a total mess.

588
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 4: And I feel that even now more strongly now having

589
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 4: had my daughter m Yeah, that it's like all of

590
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 4: the stuff, like you, I don't want to give her

591
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:32,800
Speaker 4: my stuff.

592
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think especially for women, you know, I don't

593
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 1: think you can do all the big research on all

594
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: the feelings and the therapy without coming across these incredible,

595
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: you know, stories and proofs of this idea of generational inheritance,

596
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: right and what we passed down and particularly this matrilineal

597
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 1: Wine yep and I think so much about the way

598
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: you talk about your mother's effect and impact on your

599
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 1: life and the impact that then you have had for

600
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,720
Speaker 1: so long with these characters you play. You know, you've

601
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 1: you've put yourself into these shows that come part of

602
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: the zeitgeist, that represent people in situations and places we

603
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: haven't seen before, that that are inherently you could say,

604
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: pushing the envelope, creating progress, you could say political in

605
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: simply existing. And I think about the ways that you

606
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: use your platform to speak out for people. And you

607
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: were doing all of this before you had your daughter,

608
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 1: who you knew you were going to pass the world too.

609
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,959
Speaker 1: And I wonder if it does it all make sense

610
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: to you now, like, oh, of course it was always

611
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: for her, Or does it make you want to double

612
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:53,879
Speaker 1: down on who you are and how brave you are

613
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 1: and and the person you are out in the world

614
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:58,879
Speaker 1: because of her?

615
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 4: Oh, me want to double down? It makes sense, But

616
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 4: it makes me want to double down, especially now you

617
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 4: know we open this conversation we're talking about like DNC.

618
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 4: When I think about like the world and the world

619
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 4: as it exists today and the world that could potentially

620
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 4: exist once I moved to have it God willing, please

621
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 4: take me down everybody. You know, Like, when I'm not

622
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 4: here with her anymore, it's like, what am I going

623
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 4: to leave her? Because I was left with the law

624
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 4: and I do not want to leave her with less

625
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 4: than I was given. Yeah, you know, Maya Angelou has

626
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 4: a quote from her poem, has a line in her

627
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 4: poem on the dusk on the dawn of morning, dusk

628
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 4: of morning, excuse me, And the line says that our

629
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:59,479
Speaker 4: passages have been paid for. And my passage was paid for,

630
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 4: and I want to do everything in my power to

631
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:07,280
Speaker 4: fight for the things that I believe in, to stand

632
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 4: up to the people or ideas that counter the good

633
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 4: of my child to ensure that her passage was paid

634
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 4: for as well. You know, I'm ferocious about that, and

635
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 4: I don't know that I knew that how ferocious I was,

636
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 4: and I didn't need to be a mom to be that.

637
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 1: Let me be here.

638
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 4: We all have that, any person who has passion for

639
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 4: the life of another person. But it has made me

640
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 4: want to just make sure that I pour into her

641
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 4: as I was poured into m.

642
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: HM and now for our sponsors. So when you think

643
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: about that, you know, and you said earlier the book

644
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 1: that you thought you were going to write changed in

645
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 1: between deciding what the book was about and beginning to

646
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: write it. Your mom was diagnosed. When you think about

647
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 1: then having to set out to pour into these pages

648
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 1: to make the road is good, which is also the

649
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: meaning of your name, it feels really emotional just as

650
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: a person talking to you about it. How did you

651
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: begin to kind of make sense of, Oh, these are

652
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: the things I have to write down. These are the

653
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 1: stories I know I want to preserve because of course

654
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 1: it's for the reader, but it's also for.

655
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 4: You, Yeah, you know, I think for me. How I

656
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 4: started to get the sense of what to write down

657
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:51,839
Speaker 4: and to include was first starting to think about what

658
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 4: we're if we're going to stay with this, like road metaphor, right,

659
00:41:55,560 --> 00:42:01,280
Speaker 4: what were the intersections in the road my mother's story

660
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 4: crossed with mine in terms when she was a kid,

661
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 4: my age, and my experiences those overlaps, And then where

662
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 4: were those forks in the road where my life diverged

663
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 4: from hers, or where I could clearly see like no,

664
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,399
Speaker 4: if I had done this way, life would have been

665
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 4: totally different in a trip. But I went this way,

666
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 4: and so I want to include those points in the story,

667
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 4: and then I think the final piece was thinking about

668
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 4: my name and its meaning. My name means the road

669
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 4: is good, but what it's slightly more nuanced, and it

670
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 4: means like the journey was worth It means like if

671
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 4: you were to come to my house and we were

672
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 4: supposed to meet at three, but you got a flat

673
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:53,399
Speaker 4: tire and then torrential rain came down, and oh, man,

674
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 4: there's an accident on the side of the road and

675
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 4: fifty car pile up and ran out again because you

676
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 4: were in traffic so long, and now you're here at

677
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 4: four thirty, an hour and a half late. But the

678
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 4: sun suddenly came out and it's beautiful, and I would say,

679
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 4: too came my goals or how was how was the trip?

680
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 4: The journey? And you would say, oh, Zamaka, it was hard,

681
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 4: but it's worth it because I'm here now with you.

682
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 4: Is what it means. The journey here wasn't easy, It

683
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 4: wasn't ave. The road is muddy and has potholes and

684
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 4: and and you know it has gravel sometimes, but all

685
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 4: of that was worth it because it brought me here.

686
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 4: And that's why my parents named me that. You know,

687
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 4: my mom, you can read people will read it in

688
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 4: the book. It's like she survived polio. My mother survived

689
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 4: the the Affrons civil war against her people, which she

690
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 4: like worked in and like crazy capacity, you know, like

691
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 4: for the government and for writers. She had been through

692
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 4: a lot, you know, had been through a lot. And

693
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 4: she said she was widowed at thirty six, you know,

694
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 4: and then she still had me and was like it

695
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 4: was all worth it because you're here.

696
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,280
Speaker 1: I actually, it's funny. I took a I went back

697
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 1: through my notes and I I was looking at really,

698
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 1: I guess it's the preface of the book where you're

699
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 1: explaining this. And the thing that I really love about

700
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 1: it when you talk about the fact that it's so

701
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 1: much more nuanced than all of it being good, right,

702
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 1: is that you're you actually carry gratitude in the response,

703
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 1: which is your name for the whole journey. Yeah, And

704
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,919
Speaker 1: I think to be able to see the purpose in

705
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: the pain and be grateful for the joy and all

706
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: all of it. You know, it's it's really everything you've

707
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 1: ever been through that has brought you to this point

708
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 1: that you are in your life. And I think when

709
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: you can resoundingly lean into the gratitude for your journey

710
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: and not be so mad about what was tough. Everything changes, yes,

711
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 1: and it that that I believe is a magical experience

712
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 1: as a human And that's what this book feels like

713
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:30,439
Speaker 1: for me as a reader. Like your whole book, your

714
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 1: story and your mother's story are so incredibly unique. Obviously,

715
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 1: I've never lived through a civil war, nor had pollio,

716
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: but ah, like I see myself in this book. This

717
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 1: this like beautiful, real, muddy humanness, and it's I don't know,

718
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: it's really you know, I'm a I'm a nerd who

719
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 1: likes to read, and this is it's really so tremendously special.

720
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 1: I just really thank you for sharing in the way.

721
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 4: They thank you, thank you. And it wasn't easy. You know,

722
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:08,959
Speaker 4: it's not easy. Thank you for that. Seriously, it wasn't

723
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 4: easy because you know, you get uncomfortable wondering, like, oh my,

724
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 4: you're saying these things out loud and so open sharing

725
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,839
Speaker 4: it with the world. But yeah, so open, and I'm

726
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 4: not I share with my circle, but I'm not like

727
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 4: a world chair typically And it's been which is probably

728
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 4: why I have nerves going into its relief, because I like,

729
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,359
Speaker 4: is it possible to like not? But you know, it's

730
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:45,240
Speaker 4: not already no, but it's like it gave me such

731
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 4: a release and a relief to put some of these

732
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 4: things down on paper and to tell my truth in

733
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:04,840
Speaker 4: that way. And who and what Also like what a

734
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 4: I didn't know it when it was happening, but like

735
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 4: what a gift and come for stations and time I

736
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 4: gave me, but also gave her to get to just

737
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 4: talk about her life.

738
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 1: And did getting to have these conversations with her, you know,

739
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 1: whether you talk about how for her your your teeth

740
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 1: or such a mark of beauty. You talk in the

741
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:46,919
Speaker 1: book about how for such a long time you wanted

742
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 1: to change your name, you know, to Zoe because easy

743
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:56,240
Speaker 1: American assimilation story, And then there's so much about how,

744
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 1: in whatever way you felt that you wanted to blend in,

745
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 1: you've really taken up the mantle and standing out and

746
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: being exactly who you are that I know is a

747
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 1: life's work. But in having these conversations with her, do

748
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 1: you feel like you got that that sort of confidence

749
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 1: and purpose and sense of self like just high dose

750
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 1: like mainline into the veins, like oh my god, this

751
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 1: is why I'm here and this is my this is

752
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 1: my whole destiny to be here and I'm seeing it

753
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 1: in myself because of her.

754
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:35,240
Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely, you know, like I feel like I've arrived now,

755
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 4: you know, like I think, I think I didn't even realize.

756
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 4: Whether it's like the quitting with Orange, whether it's my gap,

757
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 4: whether it's my name, whether it's being the only you

758
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 4: know Nigerians in our hometown. All of these things, whether

759
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 4: it's hearing no, you know, all of these things were

760
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 4: the walk along the road that we're making it hard,

761
00:48:55,960 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 4: including having to figure out how to live without her,

762
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 4: But all of that was worth it because I'm here

763
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 4: now and it would not be where I am right now,

764
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:15,280
Speaker 4: in this space, in this moment in my life, able

765
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 4: to hold my head up high proudly say that my

766
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:25,920
Speaker 4: name is Uzama with the fully open gap inside my

767
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 4: mouth splintering my two front teeth, and say that proudly

768
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 4: and say too that I am proud to be none yeah,

769
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:38,720
Speaker 4: my Aduba's daughter. That all of that had to happen

770
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 4: for me to be able to say and do that.

771
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 1: Hm, that's so beautiful from this place, you know, this fullness.

772
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 1: I know there's nerves obviously about about the book because

773
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 1: it's you and your life and it's about to be

774
00:49:55,560 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 1: out in the world. Do do you look around and

775
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 1: immediately have a next drive, you know, some next motivation

776
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:11,799
Speaker 1: or are you really trying to just be present and

777
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: relish in this moment and this feeling, or are you

778
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 1: you know, every the accomplished woman that you are multitasking

779
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 1: and doing it all at the same time.

780
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:27,240
Speaker 4: I'm doing other things. But I am. I love that question.

781
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:31,240
Speaker 4: I really do, like I am really trying to stay

782
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 4: in the presence of this, mostly because I think even still,

783
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 4: it's it's easier to push it away and specifically to

784
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:50,879
Speaker 4: this book, to not sit in it and memorialize all

785
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 4: the parts of it because of the discomfort that it

786
00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 4: might bring up that point, the nerves, all these things, sadness,

787
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 4: all these things. But it's like I want to stay

788
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 4: in that. I want to I want I want to

789
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:14,800
Speaker 4: give my life, my mom's life, the honor and respect

790
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 4: and time that they both that they deserve to stay

791
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 4: in it. But I have things going in the background,

792
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 4: you know still, you know, like I'm producing now that

793
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 4: we you and I'm mutually our teen angel City go see,

794
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:36,839
Speaker 4: you know, like we have things always going. But I

795
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 4: do want to like stand in celebration of this moment

796
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 4: because I've never done anything like this before.

797
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's sort of incredible. You look around at

798
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 1: your life and you think, God, I've achieved all of

799
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 1: these things. And in a way, every time something happens

800
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 1: and then the next thing requires a new start. You know,

801
00:51:56,680 --> 00:52:00,839
Speaker 1: it's a it's a neat I always joke that it's

802
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 1: like the coolest and the most stressful part of what

803
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 1: we do for a living. Yes, but it is beautiful

804
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 1: and it's very cool to get to watch you in

805
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 1: this moment. It's it's really for me, always something I

806
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:19,720
Speaker 1: cherish when I can palpably feel the joy of people

807
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 1: that I really adore. I'm like, God, this is nice.

808
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 1: Good for you. I'm so happy for you.

809
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 4: Thank you.

810
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 1: In this in this moment, you know, as you as

811
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,319
Speaker 1: you try to hold all of it, and there's all

812
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:39,879
Speaker 1: sorts of things going on. What feels like your work

813
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 1: in progress? Is it as a mom is it personal?

814
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 1: Is it professional? Is it kind of a mix of

815
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 1: all things?

816
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 4: I mean, definitely, motherhood is a for sure work in progress.

817
00:52:55,760 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 4: Just I think I'm constantly defining, redefining, having no definition

818
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:09,839
Speaker 4: of the type of the type of mother I want

819
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,840
Speaker 4: to be, not because of like what I think I

820
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 4: should be but like, like she's ten months and I'm

821
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 4: so clear that she's already paying attention and what she

822
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 4: is paying attention to I don't know, hopefully, but I

823
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:34,760
Speaker 4: am aware that I that she's awake. Yeah, and I

824
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:40,360
Speaker 4: want to be sure that what she's taking in to

825
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 4: the best of my ability are things that I want

826
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 4: her to hold on too, like and for them to

827
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 4: be true things, not like things that she saw me

828
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 4: do that aren't true, or you know that like now

829
00:53:56,600 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 4: she thinks like you can't you must wear makeup every day,

830
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:03,319
Speaker 4: you must you know whatever, you know, little things like

831
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 4: that that I don't want her to not that I

832
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 4: but you know, I just don't want to adopt things

833
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 4: as truths that now start to define her. And that's

834
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:19,719
Speaker 4: been interesting because it's like I almost think motherhood is

835
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:23,719
Speaker 4: teaching me a lot about me too in that capacity,

836
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:28,319
Speaker 4: like my words, because I know she's listening. I'm like,

837
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 4: are you really gonna say that about your she's listening,

838
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 4: do you know what I'm saying? That's what I mean

839
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 4: about truth. So that's definitely like a work in progress,

840
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 4: which I guess in term means that I'm just like

841
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 4: in progress for myself too in some ways. And I

842
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 4: guess also I'm a little bit of work in progress,

843
00:54:55,360 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 4: Like I see it at my baby patience not a

844
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:06,959
Speaker 4: super patient, per I always am like when when when

845
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:10,319
Speaker 4: when you know and I can see my daughter, I'm like,

846
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 4: she might be getting that for me, Like she's like,

847
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:16,279
Speaker 4: I'm like, no, you got I get to work on

848
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 4: my patients, to teach her patient. Yeah, And by that

849
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 4: I mean like to not to not question that's or

850
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 4: to wonder beyond this moment right here. M it will

851
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:34,280
Speaker 4: come when it's meant to come.

852
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 1: Oh, it's so hard, especially I think when you have,

853
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 1: as you were saying earlier, that kind of ferocious love

854
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: for other people, for a community, for justice, like God,

855
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 1: patience is so tough. But I think there's it's not

856
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 1: an accident that we're having this conversation about you and

857
00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 1: your daughter, and we've also been having this conversation about

858
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:04,840
Speaker 1: you and your mother. Because I have to remind myself

859
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:08,359
Speaker 1: when I hope for a quick solution or when when when,

860
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 1: as you're saying, I remind myself that we're in this

861
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:20,399
Speaker 1: generational project together and that each generation has its work

862
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 1: to do, and that's the one thing that sort of

863
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 1: helps me flow down. So you're giving me a very

864
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 1: nice reminder of that today talking about the generations of

865
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 1: your own family. So thank you.

866
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 4: Thank you for that. Well, the baby taught it to

867
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 4: us both.

868
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:39,240
Speaker 1: Listen, babies are magical.

869
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 4: Yes, indeed.

870
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 1: Well, I know we're just coming up on time, and

871
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 1: I want to make sure I get you out on time.

872
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 1: Thank you for today. I just yeah, I said it earlier.

873
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:53,439
Speaker 1: You one of my favorite people to be within a room,

874
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 1: and I love getting to sit and just digitally hug

875
00:56:57,520 --> 00:56:58,160
Speaker 1: on you today.

876
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:01,160
Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you for making me a part of

877
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:07,760
Speaker 4: this podcast. I think it's such a wildly awesome cool show,

878
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:12,360
Speaker 4: you know, like especially bringing like so many people together

879
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 4: to talk about the the version of ourselves that people

880
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 4: maybe think they know and then see the stuff that's

881
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 4: going on underneath and allowing the space to sort of

882
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:29,600
Speaker 4: explore that dig in. Yeah, and and you know, like

883
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:31,960
Speaker 4: you already said it in some form earlier where it's

884
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 4: like the mess and the you know, like is what

885
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 4: is actually the imperfection is what is making us all beautiful?

886
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 4: And yeah, yeah, it's just great. Thank you, a great show.

887
00:57:46,680 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you so much that means a lot