Speaker 1: Hey, fam, I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the
Speaker 1: Red Table Pop podcast all your favorite episodes from the
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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. On this Red Table talk the respected
Speaker 1: evangelical pastor who finally decided to live her truth. Pastor
Speaker 1: Paul is now Paula. As Paul, you were married, and
Speaker 1: I'm assuming that you loved your wife good to start
Speaker 1: and what her family thinks. Now, okay, my dad's got
Speaker 1: said that there will always be that pain. I'm very
Speaker 1: excited about our show today. It's going to be different. Yeah. Interesting.
Speaker 1: The Red Table will probably spark some controversy today when
Speaker 1: when does it not. But I really want to ask
Speaker 1: our our t T family to keep an open mind,
Speaker 1: because that's what we do here. I am really fascinated
Speaker 1: and intrigued by the story of our guests that's coming today.
Speaker 1: For more than forty years, Pastor Paul Williams traveled from
Speaker 1: state to state preaching the gospel. Courage is stepping forward
Speaker 1: even though you're absolutely filled with fear. Paul was happily
Speaker 1: married and a devoted father to his three children, but
Speaker 1: he spent a majority of his life hiding his truth.
Speaker 1: They knew that I was a girl when I was
Speaker 1: about three or four years of age. I fought it
Speaker 1: for decades. I had spent my life wanting to be
Speaker 1: a loving husband, a loving father, and for a long
Speaker 1: time I thought that I would make it through my
Speaker 1: life without transitioning. But after a lifetime as a man,
Speaker 1: Paul made the agonizing decision to transition into a woman.
Speaker 1: I realized I no longer had a choice. I felt
Speaker 1: like I was dying inside. It was a feeling of
Speaker 1: desperation and deep sadness because I knew what it would
Speaker 1: do to my family. I learned about my dad becoming
Speaker 1: transgender in one day. My dad just said I'm Trench
Speaker 1: gender and started hysterically crying. I felt uh sad. I
Speaker 1: had to grieve all of what was We were always
Speaker 1: that family that everything went wonderfully, but I felt like
Speaker 1: I was breaking the family apart, and I didn't know
Speaker 1: if we would survive. Transitioning is not an easy process,
Speaker 1: and though it was painful, it was wonderful and was
Speaker 1: the hardest decision I've ever made in my life. Welcome,
Speaker 1: Thank you. I wanted to ask you if you could
Speaker 1: describe to us a bit what your life was like
Speaker 1: for you as Paul, knowing inside that you were someone else.
Speaker 1: It was tough. Yeah, I mean I knew from the
Speaker 1: time I was three or four I was transgender. So
Speaker 1: it's like, well, the gender fairy will arrive and I
Speaker 1: will get to choose what I am a girl, And
Speaker 1: of course it didn't happen. And I didn't hate being
Speaker 1: a boy. I just knew I wasn't one. But the
Speaker 1: longer life went, the more it's like, I don't want
Speaker 1: to do this to my family. But it was a
Speaker 1: call and I just saw. I screamed, God, who the
Speaker 1: do you think you are to me to this. I'm
Speaker 1: going to lose everything. My family is going to suffer.
Speaker 1: But I knew it been called. And you reject to
Speaker 1: call at your own peril. Yes, that's real talk. I
Speaker 1: consider myself a strong person, but I would think about
Speaker 1: myself and your shoes, and as I was like, would
Speaker 1: I have made that choice? And I said to myself,
Speaker 1: there had to be such a strong call, like I
Speaker 1: wouldn't have done it because there's so much judgment in
Speaker 1: the world and you're risking everything, your family it was
Speaker 1: really tough. As Paul, you were married, and I'm assuming
Speaker 1: that you loved your wife because it was my understanding, yeah,
Speaker 1: that even in your transition, you were hoping to keep
Speaker 1: that union intact when you decided to transition. Was she
Speaker 1: the first person that you told? Yeah, and it's been,
Speaker 1: um the hardest. Yeah, I can imagine. So whose decision
Speaker 1: was it to Actually just that was her, It was
Speaker 1: her decision. I would like to have remained married. I
Speaker 1: mean we had the world's best marriage therapist and he said,
Speaker 1: what makes this so tragic is you're a lesbian and
Speaker 1: she's not right, and so that's kind of yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that I think was my realization that it wasn't fair
Speaker 1: to her, that she needs to be true to herself
Speaker 1: as well exactly, and she's not attracted to women, and
Speaker 1: so that was her decision. It was difficult for me,
Speaker 1: and this for her husband devastating. Yeah. Yeah. Before Pastor
Speaker 1: Paul transitioned to Paula, he had a traditional life as
Speaker 1: a husband and a father of three. I remember my
Speaker 1: dad telling us I am transgender and describing what that is.
Speaker 1: It was just like wow, in that moment, the world
Speaker 1: felt like it had flipped over, nothing will ever be
Speaker 1: the same. I feel like there was no words at first.
Speaker 1: I know, I immediately got up and hugged them, and
Speaker 1: I was just scared to death. And then my parents
Speaker 1: just told us, are you ready to meet Paula? And
Speaker 1: they opened the door and Paula was standing there like
Speaker 1: very timid, like when are you ever ready to see
Speaker 1: your father dressed up as a woman and with makeup,
Speaker 1: and my dad's boobs are bigger than mine, you know.
Speaker 1: She was like showing us all of her clothes and
Speaker 1: her closet and just being a girl. I was truly
Speaker 1: excited for her because I could just see like she
Speaker 1: was glowing. There was no chance that I could deny
Speaker 1: that this isn't who she is. But she's not my dad,
Speaker 1: so that really, like that was hard. I feel like
Speaker 1: it was immediately worried for what life will be like
Speaker 1: for my father. This is how I remember our childhood,
Speaker 1: always happy, always fooling around, the quintessential like family. How
Speaker 1: could I not know? Like how could we have not known?
Speaker 1: And although it wasn't a betrayal, it felt like one.
Speaker 1: It's like if you knew this all this time, Like
Speaker 1: how could you not have told us? I felt like
Speaker 1: I had been mine too. That was Daddy's a little girl.
Speaker 1: Now you're not daddy. Now my dad's gone. So okay,
Speaker 1: like I just miss my dad. Yeah yeah, we lost
Speaker 1: their down. Yeah wow. So we have two of your
Speaker 1: children here today. We have Jana and Jonathan also a pastor. Welcome.
Speaker 1: So did it feel like you didn't have an opportunity
Speaker 1: to say goodbye to your father? But it isn't a
Speaker 1: feeling of who is this stranger. It's like this person
Speaker 1: knows me so well. This is a parent. It's not
Speaker 1: my mom my dad. I think that was the struggle,
Speaker 1: like where do you put this? What do I do
Speaker 1: with that? You know? Yeah, exactly, Like so who is
Speaker 1: she to me? Now? You know my immediate thought was like, oh,
Speaker 1: thank god, Like she looks good because I was real afraid,
Speaker 1: so I like did a whole thing. I'm like, all right,
Speaker 1: makeup is good, jewelry, like, okay, that's just good. She
Speaker 1: looks great. But in that moment, I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: my dad's gone, Like this is it. I think for
Speaker 1: me it was more of a process of relearning to
Speaker 1: have a relationship with my dad. It was more of that,
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't see this coming at all. I
Speaker 1: had no idea, And now you're telling me you're transitioning
Speaker 1: to become a woman, and I'm like, okay, was my
Speaker 1: whole life a lie? Was I was I playing catch
Speaker 1: in the front yard with you know, a woman dressed
Speaker 1: in drag. That's that's what I start to warning. You know,
Speaker 1: my dad was my god, and so it was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: my god is gone. What I knew as my hero
Speaker 1: is gone. And so there's a lot of anger around
Speaker 1: losing that that north star. You know, the father son
Speaker 1: relationship is real, and we had an incredible one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you actually followed in this bus. Absolutely. I feel
Speaker 1: like as a child you have like this like so
Speaker 1: ingrained of like mom and dad and like their roles.
Speaker 1: For that to just be like completely switched up, I
Speaker 1: honestly couldn't imagine how that affects you, your mentality, you know,
Speaker 1: how that affects you know, even how you thought about
Speaker 1: past experiences that you had as a child. I think
Speaker 1: you need that foundation, And selfishly, I am thankful that
Speaker 1: we had that. You know, we had a very normal bringing,
Speaker 1: but you sort of know it's never really going to
Speaker 1: be okay again, Like your family is never really going
Speaker 1: to be what it was. And that's okay because she
Speaker 1: is who she is and that is worth it. But
Speaker 1: there'll always be that pain. It must be like death.
Speaker 1: It's confusing though you feel like there's a death, but
Speaker 1: it's hard to grieve in that situation. And we had
Speaker 1: nobody to to talk to about anybody. And so when
Speaker 1: the whole Bruce Jenner story came out, everyone started calling, Oh,
Speaker 1: that's what you're at, Like, yeah, when you first transition.
Speaker 1: Every time we went somewhere, she was just so nervous
Speaker 1: and she was so reserved and shy. And to see
Speaker 1: my dad, who I had known to be this powerful
Speaker 1: male that was kind of like leading the pack, and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden the roles were reversed. There was
Speaker 1: a few months that I had to be like Paula
Speaker 1: one day and paul the next. It was it was
Speaker 1: so difficult, and at that point I was also I've
Speaker 1: been on estrogen for quite some time, and I remember
Speaker 1: the last time I had to go out as a male.
Speaker 1: My spouse was just laughing and saying, Oh, you really
Speaker 1: looked like I don't something in between. You gotta stop
Speaker 1: this stuff soon, you would visit me as a male.
Speaker 1: Still I was, I was in denial. It was really
Speaker 1: hard for me. And so I remember the last time
Speaker 1: you visited me as Paul. I looked at you and
Speaker 1: I was like, this is this is not my father.
Speaker 1: It doesn't feel like my dad anymore. Doesn't look like
Speaker 1: my dad anymore. She doesn't look like my dad. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just started crying. He started crying, and Paul at
Speaker 1: the time said why and I said, because you're not
Speaker 1: You're not my dad and longer. So, yeah, that was
Speaker 1: a tough day. Paula, did you understand the extent of
Speaker 1: how your daughters and your son missed Paul their father? No,
Speaker 1: because I think in the first year, you're just so
Speaker 1: happy to be in the right body. You're so self absorbed,
Speaker 1: and you know, maybe they should just lock us in
Speaker 1: a room for that, just until we're ready to come
Speaker 1: back into a real world, can realize the way we've
Speaker 1: exploded the family narrative. None of us know what to
Speaker 1: do with Paul. I don't know what to do with Paul,
Speaker 1: and I don't have pictures of Paul around the house,
Speaker 1: and I speak of myself in the third person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know how you integrate. We didn't memorialize Paul
Speaker 1: said goodbye to Paul. I think what's really fascinating also
Speaker 1: is the fact that you were part of evangelical community
Speaker 1: for such a long time. In churches across America, conservative leaders,
Speaker 1: just like Pastor Paul once was, have different views about
Speaker 1: being transgender. I see a man dressed up as a
Speaker 1: woman who has mutilated his body and saying, hey, look
Speaker 1: at me. Everybody, every church has a different opinion on
Speaker 1: the issue, and lgbt s of all types and sorts
Speaker 1: have to find a household of warship that reflects what
Speaker 1: your views are and what you believe like anybody else.
Speaker 1: Transgenderism is not a civil right. Just because I have
Speaker 1: morals and values, that does not make me a discriminatory bigot. Wow.
Speaker 1: Where no enemy exists, we create. And you see that
Speaker 1: in the religious world, creating enemies that don't exist, and
Speaker 1: that's what they've done with the LGBTQ community. Absolutely, you
Speaker 1: believe that you would be risking your relationship with your community.
Speaker 1: I didn't know how bad it was going to be.
Speaker 1: I thought, well, okay, I'll probably have to leave my
Speaker 1: jobs at some point in time, and so I wanted
Speaker 1: to tell the organizations I was a part of and
Speaker 1: one I've been with for thirty five years, and I
Speaker 1: was gone from all of my jobs within seven days.
Speaker 1: I lost the church, most of my friends, I lost
Speaker 1: my pension, I lost everything. The next few months were
Speaker 1: hard to even survive. In twenty one state, you can't
Speaker 1: be fired for being transgender, but in all fifty you
Speaker 1: can be fired at your transgender and you work for
Speaker 1: a religious corporation. These are good things to know. For me.
Speaker 1: The hard part was the same organization that Paul worked for.
Speaker 1: That's the organization that hired me to start this church, right,
Speaker 1: So when she told me about her transition, I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: I just got a bunch of money from these churches,
Speaker 1: and if they find out, not only will you get fired,
Speaker 1: but there's a chance that I'm going to have to say, well,
Speaker 1: I support my dad, in which case I'm going to
Speaker 1: get fired. So in three months into this church plant
Speaker 1: that I just started, and I can't tell anybody for
Speaker 1: fear of both of our livelihoods, both of ours. I
Speaker 1: cried upstairs every Sunday and I would come down ten
Speaker 1: minutes before our services started, and I put on a
Speaker 1: happy face and I'd smile and I preach and all that,
Speaker 1: but I was resentful. I was resentful that I had
Speaker 1: to do that. So there was some anger there. I
Speaker 1: was quietly affirming of the l g b t Q community. Um,
Speaker 1: but you know, I'm a white male and it doesn't
Speaker 1: have to affect me if I don't want it to
Speaker 1: affect me. And all of a sudden, it affects me.
Speaker 1: And so I'm going, Okay, well what do I do.
Speaker 1: Do I continue just to hold privilege in power and
Speaker 1: not do anything about this, or do I support my
Speaker 1: my dad and you know, thousands like her who are
Speaker 1: literally life and death. You know, people are being told
Speaker 1: that they're not loved. So what decision did you make?
Speaker 1: I cannot, in good conscience be a church that does not,
Speaker 1: you know, outwardly include support and affirm lgbt Q a community. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, we lost lost thousands of dollars and
Speaker 1: a lot of people walked out our doors. And it
Speaker 1: was the best decision we ever made. Estrangement wasn't an option, right,
Speaker 1: you don't leave somebody that's beautiful. I don't feel like
Speaker 1: there's a lot of religious spaces that offer like a true,
Speaker 1: true community to transgender people, people who don't really fit
Speaker 1: in to the religious status quo. You know, you still
Speaker 1: have churches that don't allow women in the post. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: in twenty eight states, the major religious teaching is actually
Speaker 1: a teaching that says men should be in charge of
Speaker 1: women at home, at church, and by extrapolation and every
Speaker 1: other part of our environment. That's still the major teaching
Speaker 1: in twenty eight states of the United States. That's frightening.
Speaker 1: I also feel as though people fear that which they
Speaker 1: don't understand absolutely, which is one of the reasons why
Speaker 1: I keep wanting to have these conversations that more intimate
Speaker 1: understanding about it, because if you understand it, all you
Speaker 1: have is your fear. Do you think that working with
Speaker 1: that organization for so long kept you from fully transitioning beforehand? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean it was a way to not have to
Speaker 1: deal with what I needed to deal with. It was
Speaker 1: a way to stay in a safe space, and frankly,
Speaker 1: a way to kind of keep my power. Yeah, my
Speaker 1: male privilege, which is painful to admit, that makes sense,
Speaker 1: but that's real talk. Is that self awareness? Me. I
Speaker 1: feel like if I was a man, I would be like, Wow,
Speaker 1: I have so much privilege as a man. I don't
Speaker 1: know if I want to mess that up, Like that's
Speaker 1: what it's so much religion, politics, everything is set up
Speaker 1: for the patriarchy. So it's like every white patriarchy for sure. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: I think as a male, I was just pretty sure
Speaker 1: I was I was the stuff. Yeah, I under stand,
Speaker 1: there's still so much privilege you carry with me. I
Speaker 1: think that is a strength that I had that the
Speaker 1: world had been very good to me. Everything I ever
Speaker 1: touched turned to gold, and so it was actually, I
Speaker 1: think easier for me to make that decision, certainly than
Speaker 1: a person of color, more than someone who's not had
Speaker 1: the kind of education or white male privilege or success
Speaker 1: that I had. For me, is that huge point. That's
Speaker 1: a huge point because us in here is African American women,
Speaker 1: were like, right, right, right, yeah, I mean that's one
Speaker 1: of the most at risk groups in the United States,
Speaker 1: is trans women. I am very impressed with your awareness
Speaker 1: of understanding your privilege as a white male, right yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean there are a lot of things you discover
Speaker 1: when you transition. One, if you speak up while you
Speaker 1: speak up too strong, while now you're you're just too strong,
Speaker 1: and you're that word and if you don't speak up
Speaker 1: strongly enough, and now you're too acquiescent. And if you
Speaker 1: do speak cap you're just going to be interrupted. You
Speaker 1: tell her, girls, don't speak until you know you're absolutely perfect,
Speaker 1: till you have your ducks in her rockcase, you're gonna
Speaker 1: be interrupted anymore. Honestly, Like, I even see it in myself.
Speaker 1: If there's like a lot of men in the room,
Speaker 1: I have to get myself in a specific state where
Speaker 1: it's like no, like I cannot be refuted. It's true.
Speaker 1: I think what's really fascinating was you also acknowledging the fact, well,
Speaker 1: if this is happening to me as a white woman,
Speaker 1: I can only imagine what's happening to my sisters that
Speaker 1: are of color, my Latin sisters, my black sisters, or
Speaker 1: my own daughter, right yes, me three and my five
Speaker 1: granddaughters or children of color. Right, Wow, that is true.
Speaker 1: So you adopted your daughter? How old was she when
Speaker 1: you was two months of age when we got her
Speaker 1: from Calcutta. I don't think we had nearly any idea
Speaker 1: of the difficulties that it was going to be for
Speaker 1: her to grow up as a child of color in
Speaker 1: a very white family in a very white neighborhood and
Speaker 1: we were not aware of that. What made you aware
Speaker 1: of it? Shortly after I transition and just started watching
Speaker 1: my power disappear, she's like, so, what do you think?
Speaker 1: So do you have any idea? No, you know, and
Speaker 1: it's like she was the most accepting of you from
Speaker 1: the geto from the story because she's been the immediate
Speaker 1: she has and it was immediate. Yeah, it's so beautiful
Speaker 1: to know both sides, you know, to have that power
Speaker 1: and then to have that shift and how that affects
Speaker 1: how you thought about past experiences that you had. I
Speaker 1: think that's a really beautiful thing because not a lot
Speaker 1: of people get to see both both sides. I always
Speaker 1: say that the highest challenges us in ways to make
Speaker 1: our hearts more elastic. I like that, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: how did your children deal with Paula? So we sat
Speaker 1: them down and we said, hey, Grandpa has always felt
Speaker 1: like a girl on the inside, and so now Grandpa
Speaker 1: is going to look like a girl, to dress like
Speaker 1: a girl. And my older daughter, who was six at
Speaker 1: the time, she said, so, basically, Grandpa's just gonna match
Speaker 1: how he feels on the inside with the outside. And
Speaker 1: I said, yeah, and she goes, okay, And it was
Speaker 1: that simple when she finally met them. Though. Grandpa comes
Speaker 1: in the room and my girls are coloring at the
Speaker 1: table and they're both quiet, and you know, my wife
Speaker 1: and I were going say hi, say hi to Grandpa,
Speaker 1: and they're quiet, and then my five year old she
Speaker 1: looks up, she goes, so, Grandpa, you still have a penis.
Speaker 1: And you know that broke the tension, right, So now
Speaker 1: we're all laughing. We're like, oh, this is great out
Speaker 1: the mouth of baby. I'm telling you. At that moment,
Speaker 1: you know, they came up with the name Grandpaula. We're
Speaker 1: gonna call her grandpa. Have you guys figured what to
Speaker 1: call Paula? I said, you know, I have a mom,
Speaker 1: and mom played the mom role in my life. And
Speaker 1: Paula said, I've always felt like your dad. That's always
Speaker 1: been real, so so you can call me dad. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's never not going to be true. It doesn't it
Speaker 1: doesn't change, it doesn't change. But there'll be times in
Speaker 1: public where I'll be like dad, Dad, Dad, when my
Speaker 1: child is doing something and people will look around like like, what,
Speaker 1: who's the dad? And for you, it's not it's not
Speaker 1: the same. Yeah, I immediately didn't call your dad anymore
Speaker 1: because it's to me, it's two separate people, you know,
Speaker 1: even though Dad's not gone, Dad's gone and this is Paula.
Speaker 1: I feel like this is happening so much more than
Speaker 1: I feel like we need to come up with some vocabulary.
Speaker 1: I love that you even like like transitioning rituals. We
Speaker 1: need to come up. Let's make this a thing, you know.
Speaker 1: I think that could be huge. Yeah, maybe super helpful.
Speaker 1: What I realize is that it takes a new skill
Speaker 1: in order to figure out how to gracefully transition a
Speaker 1: family and community. Absolutely, well, we're gonna bring the fishbowl out.
Speaker 1: You want to go first, Paula, do you have any regrets?
Speaker 1: I have tons of regrets. I have no regrets about transitioning,
Speaker 1: got it, Paula? Have you ever had gender reassignment surgery?
Speaker 1: To me, there is one question that should not be asked.
Speaker 1: That's just inappropriate. But I would not walk up to
Speaker 1: somebody and say, can you please tell me about your
Speaker 1: sex life? Or you know what I mean? I don't care.
Speaker 1: I want my dad happy and healthy. That's what I want.
Speaker 1: There's a socially economic issue as well. You know I
Speaker 1: was a very successful white male. I can have whatever
Speaker 1: surgeries I want to have, But what about all those
Speaker 1: who cannot do so? Yeah, that's that's a question we
Speaker 1: generally don't answer. Good, got you, I'll pick one this time.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, sure, Me from Chicago, Illinois is asking Paula,
Speaker 1: did you have to learn to become feminine? It shocked
Speaker 1: even me how easy and natural it was. Because I
Speaker 1: was a guy's guy. Nobody would have had a clue, right,
Speaker 1: and it was so easy. I don't have any explanation.
Speaker 1: I just came, just came. And that's not always true
Speaker 1: for transgender women. A lot of them really have to
Speaker 1: work hard. But in my case, I didn't wow with
Speaker 1: Angelizzle staff at Jonathan's church, and she is joining the
Speaker 1: Red Table from New York everybody. So, Angela, I know
Speaker 1: you had some strong beliefs about transgender and gay people
Speaker 1: at the point of time. What would those views that
Speaker 1: you had. Well, growing up in the Baptist church, we
Speaker 1: have been taught that being gay was an abomination. Uh,
Speaker 1: if you were gay transgender, like everybody that didn't fit
Speaker 1: this certain box was going to go to hell. Then
Speaker 1: I grew up and moved to New York and I
Speaker 1: started to go to Forefront, and then Jonathan would start
Speaker 1: preaching about becoming more inclusive, right, and sometimes he would
Speaker 1: say things, you know, and I'd be like, oh Lord,
Speaker 1: because I didn't know if lightning was gonna strike me,
Speaker 1: what was gonna happen? You know? It was it was
Speaker 1: very uncomfortable. And when I heard Paula's story about her
Speaker 1: knowing it four years old that she didn't really fit
Speaker 1: in the body that she was in, How is it
Speaker 1: that if God made this person, how is it as
Speaker 1: a child they have these thoughts and feelings if it's
Speaker 1: not from God? And then I had to reevaluate all
Speaker 1: these times that people would say it's in the words,
Speaker 1: in the word, and there are so many things in
Speaker 1: the word that would exclude so many of us. It
Speaker 1: made me question, well, you know what, miss Angela, you
Speaker 1: gave a word. Thank you, but it took me minute
Speaker 1: to get there, all right, and look, it takes us
Speaker 1: all a while to get there. Thank you for being
Speaker 1: willing to listen. Kudos to you for that. I think
Speaker 1: that it's a beautiful thing and that people are going
Speaker 1: to have hope that didn't have it before. So thank you.
Speaker 1: Thank you Angela. Well, we really appreciate you guys for
Speaker 1: coming as well. Kudos for just doing the work as
Speaker 1: a family to embrace this and get to get to
Speaker 1: that place saying that. Ye honestly, thanks, thank you, thanks
Speaker 1: for having on the next red Piano. My friend and
Speaker 1: sister Alicia Keys. What's the biggest misconception that you think
Speaker 1: people have about you? Probably that I'm very happy or
Speaker 1: that I'm very strong? Wow? Really, I don't even know
Speaker 1: how to get mad. Dusty r t T is on fire,
Speaker 1: This girl, This Girl, and r t T special episode.
Speaker 1: Hey r t T Family, Join our Red Table Talk
Speaker 1: group on Facebook to become part of the conversation and
Speaker 1: be sure to follow the show page to catch up
Speaker 1: on all our episodes. Hey, everybody, join us for a
Speaker 1: very special Red Table Talk as we talked to Paula,
Speaker 1: Paula's transition and our family's redemption day. Okay, perfect, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like thinking. To join the Red Table Talk family
Speaker 1: and become a part of the conversation. Follow us at
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Speaker 1: listening to this episode of Red Table Talk podcast produced
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