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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Steve Case who's chairman and CEO

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Speaker 1: of the investment firm Revolution. You know him as co

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Speaker 1: founder of a O L and he has a brand

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Speaker 1: new book, The Rise of the Rest. Steve, thanks for

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Speaker 1: being on the podcast. Great to be with you, Bob.

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Speaker 1: What do you hope to achieve with this book? Well,

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Speaker 1: I've been working on this effort for about a decade,

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Speaker 1: trying to shine a spotlight on entrepreneurs all around the

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Speaker 1: country that are building amazing companies in the process renewing

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Speaker 1: their communities, creating job growth, economic growth. But their stories

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Speaker 1: aren't really told, uh and most people don't really know

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Speaker 1: what's happening in most of these cities. And so that

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Speaker 1: was the reason to write the book. It was a

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Speaker 1: long journey for me when we started a little over

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Speaker 1: a decade ago working on this, initially on a policy

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Speaker 1: kind of framework working for the President Obama and his

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Speaker 1: Jobs Counsel, also cheering at a White House initiative called

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Speaker 1: start Up America. And the more I looked at, the

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Speaker 1: more I realized there was a problem we need as solved,

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Speaker 1: but also an opportunity we should seize and so that's

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Speaker 1: led me to this effort over the last decade of

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Speaker 1: trying to help entrepreneurs in in these what we call

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Speaker 1: the rise of the rest cities outside of the normal

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Speaker 1: tech helps. For those who don't follow this, uh, if

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Speaker 1: you look at the data, the venture capital data, about

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Speaker 1: seventy of venture capital has gone to just three states, California,

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Speaker 1: New York, and Massachusetts. The other forty seven states, they're

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Speaker 1: kind of fighting over the remaining and we're trying to

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Speaker 1: change that dynamic, get more of the capital backing more

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Speaker 1: of those entrepreneurs and more of the cities around the country.

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Speaker 1: So how bad or good are things in the other

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Speaker 1: forty seven states. Well, it's a mixed bad and that's

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Speaker 1: part of part of what I tried to explain the book.

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Speaker 1: The bad is that for the last several decades, a

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Speaker 1: lot of people in the middle of the country who

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Speaker 1: wanted to be part of what we think of as

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Speaker 1: the innovation economy, the tech sector, the startup sector, concluded

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Speaker 1: they had to leave where they were to go to

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Speaker 1: the coast because the action terms of other people, the

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Speaker 1: action in terms of where the money was was in

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Speaker 1: places like Silicon Valley, so that actually led to a

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Speaker 1: brain drain in many parts of the other country. Um,

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Speaker 1: and you know what, what we were hoping to see

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Speaker 1: as a slowing of the brain drain and a kind

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Speaker 1: of a boomerang of people returning to some of these cities.

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Speaker 1: And some of that's been accelerated by the by the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: So the talent has always been there, but the opportunity

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Speaker 1: hasn't been there, and that's led to some of these

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Speaker 1: you know, these dynamics. What's encouraging to me is just

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Speaker 1: what's happened in the last few years. There's far more

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Speaker 1: focus on these cities, and there was a decade ago.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of new venture firms that have started

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Speaker 1: up in these rising cities. Fourteen hundred new venture firms

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Speaker 1: have started in cities outside of San Francisco, outside of

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Speaker 1: New York, outside of Boston. In these in these rising cities,

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Speaker 1: there's a sixfold increase in the venture capital in those cities.

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Speaker 1: But perhaps most importantly, there's now a recognition that some

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Speaker 1: of the big potential opportunities for entrepreneurs and for investors

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Speaker 1: in this next decade are going to be as sort

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Speaker 1: of the Internet meets the real world. And big sectors

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Speaker 1: like healthcare or food and agriculture are reimagined and disrupted,

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Speaker 1: and in those sectors, expertise matters. Domain expertise matters, partnerships matter,

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Speaker 1: and that's actually an advantage I think some of the

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Speaker 1: entrepreneurs in these rising cities, even though they've been largely

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Speaker 1: disadvantaged for the past, you know, a couple of decades. Wait,

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Speaker 1: let's start with the framework. Let's start with the bus tours.

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Speaker 1: So you pick a city where a multiple cities, you

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Speaker 1: get people in a bus, you go and in each

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Speaker 1: city you give a hundred thousand dollar investment to what

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Speaker 1: you feel is the best startup. How did you come

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Speaker 1: up with the idea and what are the logistics of

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Speaker 1: the bus excursions? Well, the idea we started this a

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Speaker 1: little over eight years ago, and the original idea was

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Speaker 1: building on some of that work I mentioned with the

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Speaker 1: White House to start up America effort. Why don't we

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Speaker 1: just hit the ground and see what's happening in different

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Speaker 1: cities around the country and in the process try to

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Speaker 1: showcase some of the things that are positive developments in

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Speaker 1: in in those cities and also see what we could

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Speaker 1: do to help this next generation of entrepreneurs and so

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Speaker 1: Frank we didn't quite know what we're going to get

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Speaker 1: into what we did the first one, but we did

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Speaker 1: a tour that included cities like Detroit and Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Nashville.

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Speaker 1: Those were the first ones we did, and we found

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Speaker 1: it remarkable to see what's happening on the ground, to

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Speaker 1: use the bus a little bit as a media prop

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Speaker 1: to get attention and and you know, local media to

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Speaker 1: pay more attention to the entrepreneurs, even getting national media.

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Speaker 1: A few years ago, sixty Minutes Falls Around did a story,

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Speaker 1: for example, So that was part of the reason to

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Speaker 1: have a bus. Yeah, there was just practically to get

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Speaker 1: between city and city and around the cities, visiting different

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Speaker 1: companies and universities and so forth. The bus was helpful,

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Speaker 1: but the thing was most helpful. And this was one

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Speaker 1: of the things I didn't really fully appreciate going into it,

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Speaker 1: was using the bus as sort of a platform to

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Speaker 1: bring people together, a platform for convening. And in the

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Speaker 1: cities we visited now it's it's dozens and dozens of cities,

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Speaker 1: we found it really is important to make sure people

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Speaker 1: in those cities are aware of what each other is doing.

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Speaker 1: There's not as much of the connectivity that that you

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Speaker 1: really need to have a thriving startup community. So the

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Speaker 1: bus has been a helpful way to bring people together

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Speaker 1: and within the community, as well as invite people from

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Speaker 1: other places, either journalists from the coast or investors from

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Speaker 1: the coast, to see firsthand what's happening in some of

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Speaker 1: these cities. Okay, we literally talking like a music tour

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Speaker 1: bus with sleeping bugs, etcetera. Now, not the bunks, not

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Speaker 1: the bunks. We we we get we do, uh you know,

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Speaker 1: least a tour of us that is generally used by

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Speaker 1: musicians or politicians doing campaigns and so forth. And and

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Speaker 1: we kind of wrap it with our logo of the

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Speaker 1: Rise of the the Rest logo and and images and and

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Speaker 1: so we do not sleep on the bus because we

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Speaker 1: we do bring We packed the bus pretty full. Uh

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Speaker 1: so it's not quite like a rock and roll tour bus,

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Speaker 1: but it's certainly within the city. We do use it,

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Speaker 1: as I said, to move around and also to bring

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Speaker 1: people together. So on one of these typical ventures, how

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Speaker 1: many people are inside the bus, Well, it's pretty full.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure what the I'm not sure I want

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Speaker 1: to report the number because it probably breaks some fire codes,

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Speaker 1: but we pack them in pretty pretty pretty tight. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And as we're moving around, we have different people coming

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Speaker 1: and going, sometimes a governor, of the mayor and the

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Speaker 1: university president. CEO is a big company, you know, there

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Speaker 1: are some of the people that we try to invite

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Speaker 1: on So it's definitely does it's a dozen to people

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Speaker 1: that are that are on the bus, and over the

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Speaker 1: course of the time we're in a particular city, it's

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Speaker 1: it's probably upwards to a hundred people that join us

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Speaker 1: for some you know, some part of it. And then

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Speaker 1: the events we do in different cities, including you mentioned.

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Speaker 1: So we do a pitch competition. We invite companies in

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Speaker 1: the city to apply it to pitch generally get you know,

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Speaker 1: close to a hundred companies kind of putting their hands up,

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Speaker 1: and then we have a team that picks the best

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Speaker 1: date or ten to be on stage, and then we

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Speaker 1: have a panel of judges that joins me in deciding

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Speaker 1: which is the one that is most promising, and then

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Speaker 1: we do invest in in that company and have found

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Speaker 1: that others will because they're on stage and are telling

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Speaker 1: their story to a bigger audience. Generally, you know, somebody

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Speaker 1: three or four, five hundred people are at these events.

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Speaker 1: Uh that many of the other companies also get you know,

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Speaker 1: some some attention and sometimes some funding as well, but

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Speaker 1: not just the winner. It's sort of it's it's trying

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Speaker 1: to spotlight what's what's unique about some of these some

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Speaker 1: of these cities, and how many other professional investors would

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Speaker 1: be on one of these bus tours. Again, it depends

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Speaker 1: on the city, depends on how many people join us

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Speaker 1: in any particular time, but generally there for these tours,

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Speaker 1: there's you know, a couple of dozen coastal investors that

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Speaker 1: join us for some some part of it just trying

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Speaker 1: to see firsthand what's what's happening and in some of

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Speaker 1: these cities. Okay, you read the book and it appears

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Speaker 1: like I'll use the term underground because many people are

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Speaker 1: unaware of them. There's a startup scene everywhere you go.

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Speaker 1: Is there a startup scene in every city in America?

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't say there's a start up scene in every

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Speaker 1: city in America, but it was definitely a startup scene

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Speaker 1: in dozens of cities in America, and we obviously profiled

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Speaker 1: quite a number of them. Uh in the book. We

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Speaker 1: now have investments with our Rise of Rest Fund in

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Speaker 1: a hundred different cities. Uh, and so it is much

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Speaker 1: more widespread than people think. When I first started talking

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Speaker 1: started talking about Rise of Rest, people say, oh, I

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Speaker 1: got it. There's ttunities to back companies outside of Silicon

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Speaker 1: Valley or New York City or Boston, which are where

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Speaker 1: most of the action historically has been. But they assume

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Speaker 1: it's like one or Tuesday. Well, maybe Austin is doing,

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Speaker 1: you know, pretty well, or Chicago doing pretty well, or

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Speaker 1: you know that there's no sense that it's actually dozens

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Speaker 1: of cities that are showing real, real momentum in terms

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Speaker 1: of what's happening in in in terms of startups and

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Speaker 1: you know, the resulting benefits they can provide to the company.

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Speaker 1: So that's been the real AHA moment for me as

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Speaker 1: I've traveled around over the last decade, and that's certainly

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Speaker 1: been the most common kind of feedback I get based

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Speaker 1: on people who have read the book, as they are

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Speaker 1: surprised that so many cities, each doing it in their

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Speaker 1: own particular way, that really are emerging. So you're right,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like a little bit of a underground

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Speaker 1: that is now becoming much more more visible now. You

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Speaker 1: talk about universities in the book being a generation of

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Speaker 1: talent and that talent staying in the city as opposed

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Speaker 1: to going to the coast. But generally speaking, you invested

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Speaker 1: in a hundred cities. What is creating the startup culture

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Speaker 1: or you just can't keep startup entrepreneurs down. Well, entrepreneurs

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Speaker 1: at the core see a problem and decide it's an

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Speaker 1: opportunity and decided to do something about it, and for

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Speaker 1: them that's starting a company. Um. And that insight in

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Speaker 1: terms of seeing a problem and and believing it's a

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Speaker 1: it's an opportunity, is something that's you know, pretty widespread,

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Speaker 1: pretty universal. Uh, it's just that in certain places it's encouraged,

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Speaker 1: in other places it's not. Some cases, actually it's discouraged.

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Speaker 1: You know, entrepreneurship. Startups are viewed as kind of too

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Speaker 1: risky in in some places. Uh. And that's what leads

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Speaker 1: to this this dynamic we talked about before where people

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Speaker 1: feel like they kind of have to get out of

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Speaker 1: dots and where where they're living is not really conducive

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Speaker 1: to starting a company. Uh, it is going to be

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Speaker 1: able to attract the the money they need. They are

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Speaker 1: gonna be able to track the talent they need to

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Speaker 1: build a team, They're not going to be able to

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Speaker 1: get the attention they need to really scale up, and

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Speaker 1: so they feel like they have to leave, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's sad. And so we're trying to create a

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Speaker 1: dynamic where people really can decide where they want to live,

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Speaker 1: decide where they want to you know, kind of build,

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Speaker 1: as opposed of feeling like they have to be in

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Speaker 1: a certain place where they really don't have kind of

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Speaker 1: a shot. And there's some parallels. Obviously, you've done a

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Speaker 1: great job over several decades obviously chronicling the music industry.

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Speaker 1: There's some parallels there that there there was a time

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Speaker 1: where if you wanted to be in the music industry

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Speaker 1: you kind of had to be in in New York

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Speaker 1: City or Los Angeles. So you're in the movie industry,

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Speaker 1: you know, similarly, you kind of Hollywood was the place

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Speaker 1: to be. If you're in the financial services industry, Wall

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Speaker 1: Street was the place to be. And now over the

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Speaker 1: last half century, while those cities still have a lead

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Speaker 1: and there's still reasons to be their benefits to be there.

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Speaker 1: You know, many ways you're creating music, many ways you're

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Speaker 1: creating movies and you're less tethered to a tickler plate.

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Speaker 1: That the tech industry is still largely tethered to Silicon Valley,

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Speaker 1: and that's starting to change, and I think that change

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Speaker 1: will accelerate in the next ten or twenty years. And

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Speaker 1: that's a positive because one of the things that really

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Speaker 1: I said over a decade ago, uh, it was a

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Speaker 1: two data points. One I mentioned that sevent venture Copita

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Speaker 1: goes to three states. The other is that most of

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Speaker 1: the jobs in this country are not created by small

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Speaker 1: businesses or by big businesses, but by new businesses, companies

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Speaker 1: under five years old, basically startups. That small business as

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Speaker 1: a sector accounts for a ton of jobs. It's very important,

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Speaker 1: but as a sector, it doesn't grow a lot of jobs.

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Speaker 1: And it kind of makes sense because if a restaurant

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Speaker 1: goes out of business, chances are some other restaurant will

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Speaker 1: take over that space and will probably hire about the

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Speaker 1: same number of people. Similarly, with the big companies of

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Speaker 1: fortune companies, some are growing, but some are declining, and

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Speaker 1: as a sector ends up being kind of, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of balances itself out so if you're going to

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Speaker 1: create jobs, you've got to back new companies. And if

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Speaker 1: if in order to start a company, it's not always

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Speaker 1: required that you raise capital to start a company. Some

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Speaker 1: are able to boostrap those companies, but most of the

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Speaker 1: biggest companies that have had the most success, create the

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Speaker 1: most jobs, create the most economic you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: growth and vitality, do raise venture capital, well, then it's

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Speaker 1: kind of a disconnect if if that capital is not

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Speaker 1: available to most people in in in most places, and

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Speaker 1: so leveling the playing field so that everybody who has

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Speaker 1: want to starting a company and they feel like they

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Speaker 1: can do that wherever they are, as opposed to feeling

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Speaker 1: like they're kind of left out and left behind and

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Speaker 1: don't really have a shot at building and frankly a

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Speaker 1: shot out the American dream is something I think it's

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Speaker 1: important to address boast to maximize the number of innovations

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Speaker 1: that come out of this country, the new ideas that

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Speaker 1: that you know, kind of lead to the new companies

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Speaker 1: and even lead sometimes the new industries. Uh. And it's

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Speaker 1: also frankly the best way to maximize the likely of

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Speaker 1: the United States continues to be the most innovative entrepreneur

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Speaker 1: nation in the world. That's not you know, kind of guaranteed.

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Speaker 1: There's some risk to you know, the United States, based

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Speaker 1: on what's essentially been the globalization of entrepreneurship over the

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Speaker 1: last a couple of decades or venture capital years ago

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Speaker 1: was invested in the in the United States of global

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Speaker 1: venture capital, and now it's in so other countries have

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Speaker 1: figured out that innovation entrepreneurship is kind of the secret

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Speaker 1: sauce that's kind of made America America, and they're trying

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Speaker 1: to kind of kinta win the next industries. And so

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Speaker 1: we need to double down on innovation entrepreneurship, and we

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Speaker 1: need to do it in a more inclusive way, so

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Speaker 1: not just certain people in certain places doing it really

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Speaker 1: well and and other people in other places feeling kind

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Speaker 1: of left out and left behind. Okay, in Silicon Valley,

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Speaker 1: you had the transistory, had fair Child, so you grew up.

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Speaker 1: These businesses grew up around tech, the logical innovation to

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Speaker 1: begin with. To what degree is it a matter of

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Speaker 1: like COVID where people work remote being one issue, so

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Speaker 1: you can work anywhere, or do these locations actually come

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Speaker 1: with advantages that you don't get on the coast. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Both the first little backstory, even even if you look

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Speaker 1: at the the early days of the Internet, when companies

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Speaker 1: like mine AO all got started, we were in northern

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Speaker 1: Virginia outside of Washington, d C. But that first wave

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Speaker 1: of Internet, the first you know, kind of a couple

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Speaker 1: of dozen companies that ended up playing a key role

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Speaker 1: in building the Internet, building on ramps to the Internet

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Speaker 1: were fairly regionally distributed. You know, as I mentioned, we

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Speaker 1: were in the DC area. Hayes, the big modem company

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Speaker 1: was in Atlanta. CompuServe one of the early online services

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Speaker 1: with Columbus Ohio. IBMS PC operations were in boc Overton, Florida.

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Speaker 1: Sprend the communications company was in Kansas City. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: the Dell was in Austin. Microsoft actually started in Albuquerque

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Speaker 1: until you know, they moved to Seattle. So the a

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Speaker 1: lot of companies were all across the country. It was

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Speaker 1: only in the last twenty years where it shifted from

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Speaker 1: building the Internet to building software on top of the Internet.

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Speaker 1: That's really when Silicon Valley grew to you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of its prominence. Indeed, it's it's dominance I think in

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Speaker 1: this next era, This next wave what I've called the

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Speaker 1: Internet third wave. UH. It is sort of when the

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Speaker 1: Internet meets the real world, and that's when some of

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Speaker 1: these sectors that we've been talking about, like healthcare and

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Speaker 1: food and others start getting disrupted. And some of the

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Speaker 1: expertise you need and some of the credibility you need

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Speaker 1: to establish partnerships in those sectors are you know, in

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Speaker 1: the middle of country healthcare, for example, it depends on

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Speaker 1: to see when you're trying to build there. But if

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Speaker 1: you're trying to build a disruptive healthcare company, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: need partnerships with hospitals so they actually integrate what you're building.

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Speaker 1: And you know, you need to get doctors and nurses

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Speaker 1: to actually use it, you need to get health plans

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Speaker 1: to actually pay for it. Uh. And having some connection

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Speaker 1: to that industry, some insights into that industry, some relationships

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Speaker 1: with people in that industry likely will advantage you. If

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Speaker 1: you're trying to get a deal with Cleveland Clinic in Ohio,

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Speaker 1: or Mayo Clinic in Minnesota, or MD Anderson in Texas,

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Speaker 1: there Johns Hopkins in Maryland, some of the key companies

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Speaker 1: that could really help put your your company on on

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Speaker 1: the map. So there is some value to these rising

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Speaker 1: cities in this next era we're entering. But to the

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Speaker 1: other part of your question, there absolutely is something that's

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Speaker 1: happened during the pandemic where it has been a unlock.

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Speaker 1: The sense that you had to be in certain places

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Speaker 1: is less clear. There's clearly more flexibility in terms of

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Speaker 1: how you live and where you live and how you work,

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Speaker 1: and the whole idea of more hybrid work and remote

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Speaker 1: work is opening an opportunity for people to decide where

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Speaker 1: they want to live and not feel like they have

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Speaker 1: to be in a certain place, and for companies, and

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Speaker 1: as a result, you're seeing an acceleration of companies start

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Speaker 1: in these these rise of rest cities. So I think

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Speaker 1: it's it's both factors. This next era. There are certain

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Speaker 1: cities that give you an advantage, but also there is

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Speaker 1: this pandemic induced almost shake the snow globe moment where

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Speaker 1: we're as a society trying to figure out this next chapter,

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Speaker 1: and clearly flexibility is part of it. Okay, Historically the

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Speaker 1: image of an inventor was a lone guy tinkering in

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Speaker 1: the basement, But in the book you make a strong

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Speaker 1: statement about network effects community. To what degree today is

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Speaker 1: important to call on a team or does the loan

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Speaker 1: inventor still have a role. Well, it is that the

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Speaker 1: loan inventor is a little bit of a you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of figment of imagination. Most important thing. You know,

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Speaker 1: Thomas Edison a century ago was invented a lot of things,

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Speaker 1: but he wasn't really doing it on his own. He

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Speaker 1: always had teams that helped take those ideas and scale them.

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Speaker 1: And certainly we've seen that in the work I've done,

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Speaker 1: including with the with with a O. L. It required

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Speaker 1: a mix of skill sets and I provided a certain

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Speaker 1: kind of perspective, but I, you know, absolutely couldn't have

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Speaker 1: done it on my own. It required a team, and

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Speaker 1: I've learned that entrepreneurship is a team sport. As we

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Speaker 1: enter this new era where the problems you're solving as

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Speaker 1: entrepreneurs tend to be more complicated, more multifaceted, where partnerships

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Speaker 1: do become more important, Even understanding policy often becomes more important.

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Speaker 1: You've got to have a broader, broader skill set, and

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Speaker 1: so that that is I think can increasingly be the

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Speaker 1: story of entrepreneurship. Sometimes I think we celebrate the the

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Speaker 1: entrepreneur too much and not the team that really takes

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Speaker 1: that idea and turns it into something significant that that

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Speaker 1: team should get more more attention. And there's also something

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Speaker 1: which is part of your question to clustering of people.

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Speaker 1: And you know there's something too. When a company is

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Speaker 1: successful in a city, what we call a tent pole company,

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Speaker 1: that leads to other success in that city. And we've

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Speaker 1: seen that in the last couple of decades in Austin,

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Speaker 1: the success of Dell there has really been helpful. The

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Speaker 1: success to the south By Festival got a lot of

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Speaker 1: people visiting Austin that otherwise within the visit of Austin,

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Speaker 1: and as a result, it became a magnet for for

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Speaker 1: for people. And now there's hundreds of companies that startups

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Speaker 1: that have great success there and that was not the case,

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Speaker 1: you know, to three decades ago. And so this tent

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Speaker 1: pole company dynamic is critical. I mentioned Microsoft moving to Seattle.

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Speaker 1: The only reason Microsoft moved to Seattle is the two founders,

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Speaker 1: Bill Gates and Paul Allen, We're from Seattle and they

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Speaker 1: want to go home. That's fun. They moved to Seattle

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Speaker 1: at the time Seattle was struggling. It was overreliant on

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Speaker 1: some industries that were in decline, uh and didn't really

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Speaker 1: have a new act and you know, because Microsoft ended

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Speaker 1: up scaling there and became a tech hub because Microsoft

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Speaker 1: was there. Jeff Bezos actually got in a car left

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Speaker 1: New York City to drive to Seattle when he was

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Speaker 1: starting Amazon for one reason and one reason only. He

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Speaker 1: was he wanted to hire some Microsoft engineers. So I figured,

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Speaker 1: you can pick off some of those Microsoft people to

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Speaker 1: build to build Amazon. Now, Amazon, of course has become

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Speaker 1: a very successful company, also strengthened the Seattle startup ecosystem.

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Speaker 1: So what was a struggling city just a few decades

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Speaker 1: ago now is a thriving city. And the success of

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Speaker 1: some companies leads others, you know, companies to start up,

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Speaker 1: and some of the early employees at those companies, you know,

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Speaker 1: want to be part of some new companies, or they

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Speaker 1: had made some money on stock options want to invest

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Speaker 1: in new companies. And it creates that positive kind of

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Speaker 1: increasing returns network effect, kind of tipping point dynamic for cities.

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Speaker 1: And that's one of the things we're seeing more of

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Speaker 1: in recent years. And again that's part of the reason

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Speaker 1: I even wrote the book because I think people don't

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Speaker 1: realize what's happened in these cities, and I think they

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Speaker 1: will be surprised and frankly also encouraged that there that

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Speaker 1: this innovation economy in this next next chapter can be

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Speaker 1: more inclusive. And that really ties also in, you know,

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Speaker 1: at least a degree with some of the political dysfunction

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Speaker 1: we have in this country where where you know, there

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Speaker 1: were in these tribes and there are a lot of factors.

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Speaker 1: Obviously I don't want to make it overly simplistic, but

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Speaker 1: one of the factors is an opportunity gap where there

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Speaker 1: are definitely people that are doing really well in some

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Speaker 1: places and a lot of people, most people in most

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Speaker 1: places are feeling left out. They are feeling left behind.

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Speaker 1: They're not celebrating the disruption and Silicon Valley. They're kind

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Speaker 1: of angry about it. And you know, we need to

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of create more companies in their own

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Speaker 1: cities that can create more jobs in those cities and

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Speaker 1: create more opportunity and even more hope in those cities.

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Speaker 1: And if we do that, that will be good for

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Speaker 1: those cities, and also I think it can be good

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Speaker 1: for the country more broadly. Shark take Nipause dive or

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Speaker 1: negative for entrepreneurship in the kind I think and that

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Speaker 1: positive it it's it's really opened people's eyes to the

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Speaker 1: idea of starting a business and and you know, probably

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Speaker 1: inspired a lot of people who might not otherwise even

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00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,119
Speaker 1: thought about it. And as people when I was growing up,

434
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 1: I didn't know what an entrepreneur was until I was

435
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,120
Speaker 1: a little bit older. Uh, And so you know that

436
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 1: I think is is a is a is a net

437
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 1: positive just in terms of getting people thinking about things.

438
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 1: And as I said before, maybe next time they see

439
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,200
Speaker 1: a problem they turned it into an opportunity. One of

440
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:32,680
Speaker 1: the stories I love it, and it's in the book

441
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 1: as there's a mom living in a suburb outside of

442
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 1: Indianapolis who five or so years ago was kind of

443
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 1: worried about the water quality because in Flint, Michigan, there

444
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,360
Speaker 1: was a well publicized crisis about water quality and safety.

445
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,119
Speaker 1: And she said, I've got young kids. I want to

446
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 1: test my water to I want to make sure that

447
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 1: they're drinking safe water. So she called the water companies,

448
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 1: I want to test my water and they said, what,

449
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 1: we actually don't do that. I said, okay, and she

450
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 1: called some other company that specialized in and in sort

451
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,639
Speaker 1: of industrial technologies. Uh and and said, I'd like to

452
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: get my water tests and it will do that, but

453
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 1: we're really set up to do that for big companies

454
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 1: and it will cost you a thousands of dollars to

455
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 1: test your water in your home, and so what makes

456
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,679
Speaker 1: no sense? So she said, well, this is crazy. I'm

457
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 1: sure that other people like me or concerned about their

458
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: water quality. And she started a company called one Water

459
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 1: that created a very affordable way for people to inconvenient

460
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 1: way for people to get their their water tested, and

461
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 1: that outscaled. It's even providing some of these testing services

462
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: to cities, including cities like like San Francisco. That was

463
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: just somebody who saw a problem and and turn it

464
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 1: in an opportunity. And so hopefully things like Shark Tank

465
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 1: will open people's eyes that they see a problem rather

466
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: than just talking about it or complaining about it, they

467
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 1: maybe can do something about it by by starting a company.

468
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: And increasingly because of what's been happening, they have more

469
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,159
Speaker 1: flexibility to do that anywhere they are as opposed to

470
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: feeling like why I have this idea, I want to

471
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 1: do something about it, but I really don't have any

472
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: ability to do it. Because I'm you know, living in

473
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: some part of the country that just is not well

474
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:11,239
Speaker 1: known for for startups and innovation and entrepreneurship, and that

475
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: needs to change. Okay, let's talk about the basics on

476
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 1: your side of the fence. Obviously, there are legendary venture

477
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 1: capital firms in the Silicon Valley. They're well known ones

478
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 1: in New York. Then you read about somebody who's got

479
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: their own little fund. Tell me about the creation of

480
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: the venture capital firm, whether there's competition amongst you, how

481
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: the investment works, a revolution where you get your money

482
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 1: to fund your funds. A couple of parts of that. First,

483
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 1: venture capital as an industry as a sector is a

484
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 1: relatively modern phenomenon. It's really the last fifty years that

485
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: it emerged, and initially emerged in New York and then

486
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: in San Francisco, then in Boston. That's part of the

487
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 1: reasons why those cities have so strong in terms of

488
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: where venture capitalists have clustered and therefore where entrepreneurs have

489
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: have clustered. There's three ways people raise money for venture firms.

490
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: The first is they've made some money from some other

491
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: thing and start reinvesting. It goes back to this dynamic

492
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: of of of having a successful company leads to people

493
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 1: making money from that company, and some of them decided

494
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: to invest in the next generation of entreprenurs. That's actually

495
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: how I got started. After you know, starting a O L,

496
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: I started making some investments and then I wrapped it

497
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 1: up from there. So that's that's one way. They just

498
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,199
Speaker 1: have some access to you know, to the capital. A

499
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 1: second way is in a more common way, is they

500
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 1: tap into institutional investors, so big pension funds, university endowments.

501
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: They're trying to maximize the return they get for those

502
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 1: endowments so they can do more programs for their particular

503
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,880
Speaker 1: university or for the particular hospital. And so they are

504
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 1: sort of professional investors that have a whole series investments.

505
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 1: Obviously they have fairly diversified portfolio. But one part of it,

506
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 1: and recently it's become a more important part of it,

507
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: is investing in these private companies, uh, you know, the

508
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: by terms of venture capital in in in particular. And

509
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: there are also groups that are what are called fund

510
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: of funds that also might make raise capital from some

511
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 1: large investors and then kind of divate out to a

512
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 1: group of of of smaller funds, so there's different ways

513
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: you can raise that money. We did something a little

514
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 1: bit different, uh, for this most recent Rise the Rest Fund. Historically,

515
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 1: revolutions started initially where it was just money I was investing,

516
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: so essentially my capital. Than about ten years ago, we

517
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 1: opened it up to institutional investors and we have a

518
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 1: Revolution Growth Fund and Revolution Inventors Fund investing companies like

519
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: DraftKings and Sweet Green and Clear and and dozens of others.

520
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: And that's with the support of institutional investors who are

521
00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 1: essentially investing alongside of us. For this more recent rights

522
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: Rest furred, we just reached out to individuals and so

523
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 1: we have very prominent successful entrepreneurs and investors executives who

524
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: have joined us as investors in our Rise of Rest

525
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: seed fund, which is investing in these cities all around

526
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: the country. People like Jeff Bezos and Howard Schultz, and

527
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: you know hedge fund people like Gray Dally, and private

528
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 1: equity people like uh Henry Kravis, David Rubinstein, you know,

529
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 1: venture investors like Jim Bryer and John Dorther, entrepreneurs like

530
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 1: Sarah Blakeley and Tory Birch, and you know, you know

531
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: Eric Schmidt Mike Milk and a great group of individuals

532
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: who basically believe in this idea of the rise the

533
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: rest believe that their entrepreneurs all across the country believe

534
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: there's a disconnect between no ability for most people in

535
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: most parts of the country to access venture capital. So

536
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: are co investors with us in that particular fund? Do

537
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,719
Speaker 1: you personally know all those people or do someone on

538
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: your team reach out? Are you more of a cerebral guy,

539
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: you very social such that you have relationships with these

540
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: investors and could just bring them up just because of

541
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: what I've done over a number of decades, I've have

542
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: built a pretty good network, so you know, I wouldn't

543
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: say all there are a few people that invested. It

544
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: was part of Rise Arrest too. I didn't know personally before,

545
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: but the vast majority I didn't know personally, and many

546
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: actually were aware of what we're doing, and we're kind

547
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: of intrigued with what we're doing and express an interest

548
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: and and and being investors alongside of it. So we

549
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: structured something so uh, there's an ability for those people

550
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: doing it's and it's super helpful if we're going around

551
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: the country that you know some of these prominent successful

552
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: entrepreneurs and investors you know, are are essentially backing them.

553
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: When we make an investment in a company with our

554
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: Rise Arrest Fund, it's it's it's really the these these

555
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: dozens of other people are essentially investors in your company

556
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: as well, and I think that's helpful. I guess people

557
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: are some a little bit more more momentum when they're

558
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: hiring people that they're they're more likely to join the company,

559
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: and a little more momentum when they're they're trying to

560
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: attract customers or partners, a little more momentum when they're

561
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: trying to attract follow on investors. So having that that

562
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: network I think has been been been quite helpful. But

563
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: just me doing this personally, I don't think we've had

564
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: nearly the same level of interest or attraction than having

565
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: several other dozen people you're kind of joining us on

566
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: this effort. Let's talk about venture capital in general, and

567
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: revolution general is opposed to just the rise of the

568
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: rest fun they're different stages of when people invest in

569
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: recent horrowits another venture capital firm. It's famous for coming

570
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: in late, So there's early tell us about the different

571
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: stages you might invest in a company. Well, that the

572
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: very earliest stage. You know, some think of it as

573
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: sort of seed investment or angel investment, where you're raising

574
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,719
Speaker 1: a relatively small amount of money just to kind of

575
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: get going, just to kind of get that idea on

576
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: the playing field, build a initial product or service, and

577
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: you know, hire a few people just to kind of

578
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: get going. So that's called the seed stage. Uh, I

579
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: think if it varies depending on what the company is,

580
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: but yet seed state, you know, the investments generally are

581
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: in the know, few hundred thousand dollar range. Sometimes it

582
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: can be more, sometimes it can be less, but generally

583
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: that's sort of the range that people are talking about.

584
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: And then there's sort of the venture stage, which is

585
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: the company is more developed and and the team is

586
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 1: more assembled and uh there's a little bit more clarity

587
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: regarding product market fit things like that. So there's still

588
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: risk associated with it still is still a fledgling company,

589
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: but at that point the company and the entrepreneur back

590
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: in the company really feel like they need to raise

591
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: more capital. Usually it's a few million dollars and that's

592
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: a whole other group of venture firms to specialize at

593
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: that stage. And then, as you said, there's a later

594
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: stage where people think of as the growth stage, where

595
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: the company really has you know, kind of got some traction.

596
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: It's kind of a real business. It still needs more

597
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: capital to expand it's still not yet profitable, but but

598
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: it's clear that there really is an idea there, and

599
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: that's the growth stage. And generally people are raising tens

600
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: of million dollars in the in the growth stage, and

601
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: more recently sometimes a lot more people. You know, some

602
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: of the companies more recently have delayed going public and

603
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: be able to raise you very large kind of private

604
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: you know, late stage rounds before they go public. So

605
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: the way to think about it is it, you know,

606
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: kind of whether you're at the very early stage where

607
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,719
Speaker 1: you need some of that initial seed capital to just

608
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: get going, or at the venture stage where you have

609
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: a little bit more attraction but but do need some

610
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: some capital and and also some expertise to help you

611
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: build a company, or the somewhat later stage where you

612
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: really do see a big opportunity and you really want

613
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: to kind of put a foot on the accelerator and

614
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: need the additional capital to hire more people or to

615
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: spend more on marketing or whatever whatever. The you know,

616
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: the focus might be and a revolution participated all those

617
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: different levels, whether it be with different funds. Yeah, we do.

618
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: We do, and then other firms do. There's some that

619
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 1: just focused on one stage. But we we really want

620
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: to be able to back entrepreneurs to kind of every

621
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: stage of the of the journeys and but way so

622
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: we have dedicated teams focused on that early seed stage,

623
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: another dedicated team focused on the venture stage, and a

624
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: third team focused on the on the growth stage. Okay,

625
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: so you go into one of these cities and you

626
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: start with X number of companies who would like to

627
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: gain the hundred thousand dollars uh, and then you win

628
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: to it down and then you ultimately award one company.

629
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: What are you seeing there? Are you seeing a lot

630
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: of you're an expert, are you seeing a lot of

631
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: viable ideas? Were you're seeing only a couple? What is

632
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,959
Speaker 1: out there in the marketplace? Now, we're seeing a lot

633
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: of ideas that of course a lot of them are

634
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: are not great ideas. You get a mix. But by

635
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: the time we our team kind of talks to people

636
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: and filters it from the initial called hundreds in each

637
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: city to the best ten. You know, the ten are

638
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: are always pretty, pretty interesting, pretty compelling in some way

639
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: or fashion. But one of the things that that we've

640
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: learned as while the idea is important, obviously, it's it's

641
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: sort of the core of what you're building is you

642
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 1: need to understand what exactly you know is the is

643
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: the goal? What is the vision? What kind of what

644
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: what mountain are you trying to climb? What what you know?

645
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 1: What what battle are you trying to fight? So it

646
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,879
Speaker 1: starts with that the vision, or it starts with the idea. Uh.

647
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 1: You quickly realize that it's sort of and there's a

648
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: Thomas Edison quote from a century ago. Vision without executionist hallucination.

649
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: You quickly recognize it's how do you take that idea

650
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: and really scale it? Which gets back to some of

651
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 1: the things we talked about before that what what is

652
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: the team dynamic and how does that really allow you

653
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 1: to scale that. So when we're talking to entrepreneurs, whether

654
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 1: it be in these pitch competitions and are just kind

655
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: of one on one, we understand the idea, we also

656
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 1: understand want understand the team that's going to turn that

657
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 1: into a real a real business. Uh. And then you

658
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: also need to have some evidence, particularly as you're looking

659
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 1: at these some of the later stage investments that there,

660
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: it really has competitive advantage with some people think of

661
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 1: as competitive moats or something that is unique about what

662
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: you're you're doing. And I also want to understand what

663
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: some of the partnerships are that are allowing you to

664
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: scale the business. So there are a number of different

665
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 1: different factors, but it's really it starts with trying to

666
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 1: understand what that big idea is and what's the what's

667
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: the dynamic of the team that's going to execute against

668
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 1: that idea and turn into a real business. Now they're

669
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:44,240
Speaker 1: these accelerators, and one is tech Stars and tex Stars

670
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: Music started up a few years ago and they choose

671
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: like ten companies and they come in and they want advisors,

672
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 1: and I went in to advise, and just about all

673
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: these people were delusional. They did not have an understanding

674
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 1: of the landscape. They had a slight understanding of what

675
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 1: was going on, but it wasn't a practical understanding. And

676
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 1: there were one or two that I thought were could

677
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: possibly be viable, and then ultimately none has really broken

678
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: through on any big level. There's a number of questions here. One,

679
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,919
Speaker 1: you know, to what degree to people know the landscape

680
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,320
Speaker 1: and our sophisticated maybe, and then there's timing. There's a

681
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: lot of investment capital in vtric capital UH. In the

682
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: music business years ago, most people lost all their money.

683
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 1: As I sit here right now, I don't see a

684
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: ton of opportunity. So what is the landscape do? Is

685
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: it about choosing the right vertical? Is it about having

686
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,800
Speaker 1: expertise in some area that you're matching with the vertical

687
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 1: or understanding that vertical? Look, I know that there are

688
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: no strict rules, but give us some insight. Well, I

689
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: think it's involving. I think it's an interesting, interesting, wait

690
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: your friend question, because in Silicon Valley there's sort of

691
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: this uh truism that the biggest disruptors often go into

692
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: a new industry knowing nothing about it, and as a result,

693
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,919
Speaker 1: they see things that people in the industry don't see,

694
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 1: have insights in terms of different products or services, just

695
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,720
Speaker 1: different way of doing things, and as a result having

696
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 1: that fresh perspective, having that almost naive perspective and asking

697
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: sort of basic kind of questions and looking for kind

698
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: of emerging opportunities, they're able to build some some very

699
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: significant companies. And there are many examples of that. That PayPal,

700
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,879
Speaker 1: which twenty years ago was one of the first really

701
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 1: successful you know, you know, digital payment companies. Elon Musk

702
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 1: and others were part of that. None of the team

703
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: really understood the financial service industry or the credit card industry,

704
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: and they were able to do some things because of

705
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 1: that naivete that allowed them to to to be successful.

706
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: More recently, you know, ten fifteen years ago, a similar

707
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: dynamic happening with Airbnb. The you know, the founders there

708
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: didn't really understand the hotel industry, the hospitality industry, so

709
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 1: they came up with what most people thought was sort

710
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 1: of a crazy idea, but it turned out to be

711
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: a great idea. So there's definitely that thread, that that

712
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 1: stream where those fresh perspectives are are important. Those fresh

713
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: insights are important and can lead to great entrepreneurial success stories.

714
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 1: But there's also another dynamic, and this I think is

715
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 1: becoming increasingly important. It goes back to some of the

716
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 1: things we're talking about earlier that in industries, whether you're

717
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: talking about the music industry or the healthcare industry, or

718
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: the agriculture industry or the sports industry, there are many

719
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 1: industries where in order to be successful, you have to

720
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 1: go beyond having that insight and actually be able to

721
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: build partnerships to be be get real scale. Otherwise you

722
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,320
Speaker 1: don't really have much success. Going back to the example

723
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: I mentioned in in health care, if you built really

724
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 1: cool software, but you couldn't get hospitals to partner with you,

725
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: what's the point. And so increasingly you need to have

726
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: the balance the blend of some of that fresh perspective,

727
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 1: but also have some real expertise in in the industry.

728
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 1: That's probably why in terms of tech stars, because you

729
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: have expertise in the industry, they said, let's bring some

730
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: people together that can help these entrepreneurs and complement some

731
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: of the perspectives they might bring by bringing some of

732
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: the real world insights that come from that that that industry.

733
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 1: I think that balancing act is going to become much

734
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 1: more important in the next ten or twenty years. And

735
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: and occasionally they'll still be companies that launch where the

736
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,879
Speaker 1: people within the company know nothing about the industry they're

737
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 1: trying to disrupt, but more often at least some members

738
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: on the team will bring that perspective, bring that the

739
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: credibility that comes with that. That will result in some

740
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: of those companies being much more successful because they have

741
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 1: on their teams, or on their boards, or in their

742
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: investor groups, or somewhere in their in their network, some

743
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: of the people that really are able to to take

744
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 1: that idea and scale it, in part by building partnerships

745
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 1: with people in the industry that will ask some of

746
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: the basic questions that anybody industry would would not ask.

747
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: To what degree do you encounter headstrong entrepreneurs? Here's an

748
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 1: analogy between the music business. You find someone who says,

749
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: I want to be successful, and if you try to

750
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,399
Speaker 1: give them any advice, say no, no, no, I gotta

751
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 1: do it my own way, and you end up rolling

752
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: your eyes. Do you encounter that in your ventures companies? Sure,

753
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 1: And it's a balancing act. We want entrepreneurs who are

754
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: you know, confident and passionate, and you know, have strong

755
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 1: convictions and and a strong perspective on how the world's

756
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:56,879
Speaker 1: gonna change, how the market's going to change, why that's

757
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:01,720
Speaker 1: going to create opportunities and and evangelists for their idea

758
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 1: and can recruit other people to their team and so forth.

759
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 1: So you definitely want that that that competence, But I

760
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: do think it's helpful to balance that at least a

761
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 1: little bit of humility, a little bit of listening, a

762
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:15,320
Speaker 1: little bit of maybe I don't have all the answers,

763
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: and and but sure we've we've backed a whole mix

764
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 1: of entrepreneurs over the over the years and find the

765
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 1: ones that are at least the best fit for us,

766
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 1: and you know, usually the most successful. The ones that

767
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: are you know, have pretty strong views, but also recognize

768
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: that there's value to to listening and engaging with with

769
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,399
Speaker 1: others and that helps them refine their ideas. Ultimately they

770
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: can be be more successful because of that, that that

771
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: team dynamic. Now, if I win and I get a

772
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars, do you wave and take the bus off?

773
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: And that's the last they ever hear of you? Or

774
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 1: how involved are you in the company you invest? Now? Well,

775
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: first of all, I should say we started these bus

776
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: tours we talked about earlier eight years ago. We've done

777
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: eight bus tours and visited over forty cities and done

778
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 1: over forties pitch competitions. Uh, but I said earlier, we

779
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 1: also invested about two hundred companies and hundred cities, So

780
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 1: most of our investments are in companies we did not

781
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 1: meet via bus tours, and most of our investments in

782
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 1: cities that we haven't visited on our bus tours. So

783
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: initially it was about the bus tours and the pitch competitions,

784
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 1: but as we saw more and more opportunity, we kept

785
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 1: extending this. This network of over three hundred regional venture

786
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: firms we co invest with that has been a source

787
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: of more opportunities. But answer your question, I do get

788
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 1: involved with the companies. I get more involved with the

789
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: companies at the later stage, and I do at the

790
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 1: earlier stage. But we have a whole team here that's

791
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 1: focused specifically on working with the companies at the earlier stage.

792
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 1: We host regular summits who we call Rise of the

793
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: Rest summits, bringing the entrepreneurs together that we're back bringing

794
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: the investors we've how invested with, back bringing the community

795
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 1: startup community leaders in different cities altogether to to learn

796
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: from each other. So I'm certainly actively involved in this.

797
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 1: I'm working as hard as I was when I was

798
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,839
Speaker 1: running a well twenty plus years ago, and it's it's

799
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 1: because it's a lot of fun. So you know, obviously

800
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 1: the cities should go to the uh you're there with

801
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: the bus there's other people who have you know, combed

802
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 1: through the companies, but the people ever just knock on

803
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: your door. And for those who have knocked on your door,

804
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 1: have any of them been good and you've invested in them? Yeah.

805
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 1: A bunch of I wanted to particularly read about in

806
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 1: the book is entreprene Jonathan Webb just showed up at

807
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 1: our office here in Washington, c kept kept pestering the

808
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 1: people to you know, get a meeting. You know, we

809
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: finally got a meeting. Uh. And initially, you know, we

810
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,320
Speaker 1: thought what you had in mine was a little a

811
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 1: little crazy, But the more we've listened to them, the

812
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 1: more we became convinced it was actually a pretty interesting idea.

813
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: And that's gone to you know, create a company in

814
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: eastern Kentucky called app Harvest. UH. That went from an

815
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: idea on a napkin, and we provided some of the

816
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 1: initial you know, an initial hundred thousand dollars of capital

817
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 1: to get that idea going and now raised a couple

818
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 1: hundred million dollars and and have scaled. That's it's about.

819
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 1: It's in the egg tech sector, agriculture technology sector. They've

820
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 1: now built the largest indoor greenhouse in America and They

821
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:25,839
Speaker 1: built it in eastern Kentucky outside of Lexington. Uh. They

822
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: picked that site in part because seventy of the US

823
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: population is with the twenty four hour drive, so that

824
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 1: fruits and vegetables can get the market quickly. They designed

825
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 1: it so it uses ninety less water, so it's much

826
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: more sustainable, good for the climate. And did it specifically

827
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 1: there because that area is known as Apple h a

828
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,800
Speaker 1: coal country which for decades has been in decline and

829
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,320
Speaker 1: it really seen some real challenges as the coal industry

830
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: largely disappeared. Uh. And so Jonathan had this idea for

831
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 1: creating a company that can could scale, but also creating

832
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 1: jobs in a community that has felt, you know, kind

833
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: of left left left behind. And so that was one

834
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: example of somebody just kind of knocked on our door,

835
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 1: heard about what we were doing, and wanted to be

836
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 1: part of it. And as I travel around, I spent

837
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 1: a good bit of time obviously not doing the pandemic,

838
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: but in the last year year and a half, been

839
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: a good bit of time traveling around the country meeting

840
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 1: people and you know, always like you know, people come

841
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: up to me with ideas and uh, you know, sometimes

842
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: they're they're really interesting and we have follow on meetings.

843
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 1: Sometimes you're less interesting and and I try to be

844
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,280
Speaker 1: polite and figuring out a way to to to pass.

845
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 1: But you know, it's one of the great things about

846
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: entrepreneurship is is people having these ideas, these sparks of imagination,

847
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 1: and then wanting to turn them into something. And so

848
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:48,879
Speaker 1: after many years, I was early years of a oh well,

849
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: and we just got started. I was still in my twenties,

850
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 1: you know, I would you go up to people at

851
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: conferences and start pitching my idea, and you know, most

852
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 1: people ignored me. A few people listened, and that sometimes

853
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: led to some partnerships ended up being very helpful to us.

854
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: And so having lived through that, I recognize I have,

855
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:09,879
Speaker 1: you know, an opportunity and degree of responsibility to help

856
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 1: this next generation of entrepreneurs. So I'm always open to

857
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 1: getting pitched by anybody. Okay, this comes down to the money.

858
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,439
Speaker 1: With money comes power. What kind of deals do these

859
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 1: entrepreneurs get when you invest money in UH and how

860
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: heavily is it negotiated. There's no such thing as a

861
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 1: standard deal, but are there general splits and things like that? Now,

862
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: they vary pretty dramatically, and it obviously depends on what

863
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 1: we're going back to before talking about the stage as

864
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,320
Speaker 1: a seed stage, the venture stage, that the growth stage.

865
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 1: It varies on the earliest stage of seede stage. A

866
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 1: strategy there with with the Rise of Rest has been

867
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:51,359
Speaker 1: the partner with other venture firms that are located in

868
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: these cities all across the country, so they really take

869
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,879
Speaker 1: the lead in setting the terms of the deal, evaluation

870
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:00,040
Speaker 1: and things like that, and then we're participating in in

871
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 1: in those rounds and then connecting the people were working

872
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 1: with together in the ways I talked about before. On

873
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 1: the later stage funds like the Revolution Ventures and Revolution Growth.

874
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,399
Speaker 1: There we we do lead the round, we do get

875
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 1: more involved, including taking board seats of the companies were back,

876
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 1: so we really can help them terms of scaling those

877
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:21,839
Speaker 1: those businesses, uh, and those tend to be more negotiated

878
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: based on kind of what the stat status the business is,

879
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: what the comparable companies, what valuations are of comparable companies,

880
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:33,319
Speaker 1: particularly the public markets. So it's it's a little more

881
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,399
Speaker 1: complicated to get to the kind of a win win,

882
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 1: you know, veal where where it makes sense for for

883
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,240
Speaker 1: us as investors and also makes sense for the companies.

884
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:47,760
Speaker 1: Our entrepreneurs born or they built a little bit of both.

885
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 1: I think early on, I think the general view was

886
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 1: they're probably born, but I've had and I was one

887
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 1: that I think in retrospect, I was kind of born

888
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: in entrepreneur and if I didn't know what it was

889
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 1: at the time, but I've also had the experience of

890
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:03,319
Speaker 1: meeting lots of people who had great success and and

891
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,439
Speaker 1: kind of came to it later in life, and so

892
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: you know, it was not something they really were you know,

893
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 1: familiar with, or not a path they were pursuing, but

894
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 1: they stumbled into some opportunity that where they were able

895
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 1: to turn into a company, including some of the most

896
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,240
Speaker 1: you know, celebrated, you know, success stories in the last

897
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 1: you know, half century, things like McDonald's right Croc basically

898
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,799
Speaker 1: was you know, took the idea of McDonald's when he

899
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 1: was selling milkshake mixers, you know, two different restaurants, and

900
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 1: as you know, a couple of McDonald brothers somewhere in

901
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,360
Speaker 1: southern California were started ordering a lot of his mixers,

902
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: and they said, huh, why are they ordering so many

903
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 1: of my mixers? And so visited them and I saw

904
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,360
Speaker 1: what was essentially the first or one of the first

905
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 1: fast food restaurant concepts, and that's why they were ordering

906
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: so many of them because they were they were designed

907
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 1: the restaurant to to basically do high volumes, and got

908
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 1: more intrigued and so eventually bought the you know that

909
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:01,840
Speaker 1: you know, the rand and and sort of the some

910
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: of the core ideas and turned that into McDonald's. And

911
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: he was in his fifties when he did that. Sam

912
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 1: Walton started a little store in Bentonville, Arkansas, you know,

913
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 1: and just with the idea of providing you know, broader

914
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 1: selection to people, better prices and so forth. And that

915
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 1: little idea in Bentville is now Walmart, which is one

916
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: of the largest companies in the world. So, you know,

917
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:29,319
Speaker 1: some I think are born with that sort of entrepreneurial

918
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:34,320
Speaker 1: creativity builder you know, new ideas, you know, start businesses streak.

919
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: But there are also many who end up seeing something

920
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 1: that they just find uh, you know, fascinating and decide

921
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 1: to pursue it as a as a as a business opportunity,

922
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 1: as a as a startup, even if they're quite a

923
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 1: bit older, and if they never really saw themselves as entrepreneurs.

924
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 1: I realized every investment has a different amount of capital involved.

925
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: But generally speaking as a VC, what kind of hit

926
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 1: to ship ratio you're looking for your success ratio? Well,

927
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 1: it again depends on the stage that earlier you're investing,

928
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,840
Speaker 1: when it's more the in the idea stage, it's going

929
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 1: to be you know, more misss than the later stage

930
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 1: where the company is a little bit more more developed. Uh.

931
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 1: You know, we try to minimize what's in the industry

932
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 1: called the loss ratio, where you basically you know, strike out. Uh.

933
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: And it's easier to do that with the later stage

934
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:30,880
Speaker 1: investments because there's more to diligence. They're generally pretty significant companies.

935
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 1: We backed the company started in the Washington c area

936
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:37,360
Speaker 1: almost fifteen years ago called Sweet Green, which was a

937
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: fast casual restaurant concept. And this really it was just

938
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 1: one place and there was a few places, and then

939
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 1: they started expanding, and so we invested in that to

940
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 1: help them expand other regions and that's gone to you know,

941
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 1: they're building now a pretty significant business and now it's

942
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:56,479
Speaker 1: a public company with a couple of billion dollar evaluation uh.

943
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 1: And they were able to use that capital to to

944
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 1: scale up. We always new when we invested in them

945
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:03,319
Speaker 1: that it would be successful. We just didn't know how

946
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 1: how success would be, how how big it might be.

947
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 1: But certainly in the earlier stage there's more risk. But

948
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 1: by co investing with other people were able to you know,

949
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 1: kind of hedge some of that risk. But for sure, uh,

950
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 1: you're always going to have as you say, and then

951
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 1: it's like in the music business or the movie business.

952
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:22,799
Speaker 1: Some are going to work and some are not gonna work,

953
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 1: and and you just try to maximize the numbers that

954
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,479
Speaker 1: are the ones that are working and minimize the ones

955
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 1: that that don't work. How many people work at Revolution

956
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:33,920
Speaker 1: and how do they get their jobs and what do

957
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 1: they do? It's a mix of things overall, because about

958
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,400
Speaker 1: seventy five people now, and some of them are focused

959
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:42,720
Speaker 1: on each of these funds I mentioned. Some are focused

960
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 1: on sort of broader corporate functions, finance, legal, communications policy,

961
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 1: you know, things like that, UM, and they know they

962
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:52,720
Speaker 1: get their jobs like anything, you know, sort of they

963
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 1: were looking for great people and always on the hunt.

964
00:51:56,280 --> 00:52:00,040
Speaker 1: And sometimes we know somebody because they work together in

965
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 1: some company or at some other venture fund, or had

966
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 1: some other role. Uh, And sometimes they just surfaced through

967
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,360
Speaker 1: a you know, kind of a more traditional kind of

968
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 1: search process. Uh, but you know we have, We've been

969
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 1: able to build and build a great team. Okay, let's

970
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 1: go a little into the personal stuff. You grew up

971
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:19,959
Speaker 1: in Hawaii. What do I know, even at this late

972
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 1: date living in Los Angeles, we're three hours behind, and

973
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 1: you frequently an afterthought and an elections, national elections, they're decided,

974
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 1: except for the last major one with a lot of

975
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 1: mail in votes out to be counted, were decided before

976
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: we even you know, the polls even closed in California.

977
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 1: So growing up in a y on some level, that's

978
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:45,360
Speaker 1: all you knew. But what was it like, Well, it

979
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 1: was all I knew, and most of that I did

980
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 1: like it's a great place to grow up and for

981
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 1: a whole host of reasons. But you're right, I did

982
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:55,720
Speaker 1: feel a little bit like I was, you know, out

983
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 1: of the swing of things, a little bit off the

984
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 1: beaten track. Even when I was up, and the television shows,

985
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 1: the sitcoms, everything would would run on in Hawaii week

986
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:09,439
Speaker 1: after they ran on the main land. Basically the tapes

987
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:12,439
Speaker 1: would get shipped over or flown over. We would watch

988
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 1: them a week later. So, you know, thankfully, back then

989
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 1: people weren't using the Internet or lots of phone calls

990
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:22,439
Speaker 1: because there's been a big spoiler, you know, effact because

991
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 1: the reality of most people in the country already knew

992
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 1: what was going to happen before we we did, UH,

993
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 1: and so that was that was a little bit it

994
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 1: was a little bit strange. And also I write about

995
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 1: some of this the book Growing Up in Hawaii. It

996
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 1: was interesting to see how the economy was evolving because

997
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 1: for most of the previous century it basically had been

998
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 1: around agriculture, growing pineapples, growing sugar. That was really the

999
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 1: core industry of Hawaii. And then you know, competition and

1000
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:54,879
Speaker 1: global competition from other countries really decimated that industry and

1001
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 1: they had to pivot. And thankfully we're able to pivot,

1002
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: uh from and move out of agriculture and into tourism.

1003
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 1: And particularly when the Boeing business jet came along and

1004
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 1: the I think it was the early nineteen seventies, you know,

1005
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 1: that really accelerated the amount of people visiting Hawaii, increased

1006
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 1: the number of hotels being built and other other things

1007
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:19,320
Speaker 1: to cater to the you know, the tourism industry. And

1008
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 1: I was able to kind of reposition itself UH and

1009
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 1: benefit from from from from tourism, so there are lots

1010
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,719
Speaker 1: of benefits in in in growing up there. And I

1011
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 1: went to a school, uh, I lived near, and it

1012
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 1: was it was fun to you know, go to that

1013
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 1: school and actually you know, and it's a small world department.

1014
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 1: One of the people I met in high school was

1015
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 1: President Obama. I was a senior when he was a freshman,

1016
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: so he didn't have classes together, but he didn't. I

1017
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 1: do remember playing basketball with him a couple of times,

1018
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 1: and I do remind people when I'm speaking to two

1019
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 1: younger folks that always be nice to everybody because you

1020
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:57,920
Speaker 1: never know who might be president United States controlling like

1021
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,720
Speaker 1: the CIA and the I R S all these other

1022
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 1: other other things. It was kind of kind of interesting. Okay.

1023
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 1: Basketball has mentioned multiple times in your book, as is

1024
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 1: your competition with your brother? How how dedicated to basketball

1025
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:17,920
Speaker 1: were you? How good were you? Into what degree did

1026
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:21,799
Speaker 1: your competition with your brother ultimately inform and enhance your

1027
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 1: career efforts? Oh, I think it's an ext that was

1028
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:28,799
Speaker 1: an average basketball player. It wasn't wasn't definitely not a superstar,

1029
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:31,400
Speaker 1: but but enjoyed it. Uh. In terms of my brother,

1030
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 1: he was a really good tennis player, So that probably

1031
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 1: led me to basketball, you know, wanting to do something

1032
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 1: a little different than what my brother was doing. And

1033
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 1: then he was definitely the one. It was a year

1034
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:43,839
Speaker 1: older and definitely was the one who was getting straight a's.

1035
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 1: I was I was not getting straight a's. And maybe

1036
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 1: that was another way I was going to differentiate him

1037
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:52,319
Speaker 1: if it wasn't necessarily, you know, something my parents were

1038
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 1: or loving um. And then he ended up going to

1039
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 1: college at Princeton and end up being a Rhodes scholar,

1040
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:03,759
Speaker 1: so really quite successful, and then went on to be

1041
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:05,840
Speaker 1: part of an investment banking firm that was one of

1042
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 1: the storied firms and Silicon Valley firm called hambrogton Quist

1043
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 1: took companies like Apple Public and gene Tech Public, and

1044
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:14,720
Speaker 1: he was a close advisor to people like like Steve

1045
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 1: jobs Uh and the fact he was focused more on

1046
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:20,960
Speaker 1: the on the financial side of things, investment banking side

1047
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 1: of things, and I was focused more on the entrepreneurial

1048
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 1: side of things. That was a nice kind of balance.

1049
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 1: And he could help me and I could I could

1050
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:30,839
Speaker 1: help him. Sadly, he passed away over two decades ago

1051
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:33,840
Speaker 1: from brain cancer. He was, you know, in his early forty's,

1052
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:36,399
Speaker 1: had a young family, and it just was a wake

1053
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:39,239
Speaker 1: up call that none of us can really control our

1054
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:42,959
Speaker 1: our destiny, controller or future. He was on the top

1055
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 1: of his game and then you know, sell me. He

1056
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:48,440
Speaker 1: finds out he is brain cancer. Fourteen months later he

1057
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 1: passes away. So that was a a just a reminder

1058
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 1: of the fragility of life and and uh, everybody in

1059
00:56:57,200 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 1: my family a reminder not to again any of her. Granted, Okay,

1060
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 1: you end up going to school at Williams in western Massachusetts.

1061
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:09,799
Speaker 1: Was that culture shock or your father going to Williams?

1062
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 1: But had you spent enough time on the mainland or

1063
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 1: do you feel like a fish out of water in Williams? Uh?

1064
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 1: I had not spent much time in the man was

1065
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:24,400
Speaker 1: mostly in in in Hawaii. Uh Uh, I didn't necessarily

1066
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 1: feel like a fish out of water. I certainly had

1067
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 1: to adjust to a rather sudden shift in terms of

1068
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 1: seasons because you know, there's of course no snow in

1069
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 1: Hawaii and or there's a little bit of snow on

1070
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 1: one top of one mountain, but essentially no snow. Uh.

1071
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 1: And there was quite a bit of snow and in Massachusetts,

1072
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 1: as you know, Uh, so there's some some adjustments like that,

1073
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 1: but I really enjoyed it. It was it was, you know,

1074
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 1: an interesting place to be. And in full disclosure, at

1075
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 1: that point in time, both high school and college, my

1076
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 1: passion was not around UH technology or things like the Internet.

1077
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,720
Speaker 1: It actually was the music business. In high school, I

1078
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:04,880
Speaker 1: did a number of things that were related to writing,

1079
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:08,240
Speaker 1: you know, contra views and taking pictures and and UH

1080
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:11,440
Speaker 1: and UH. I worked with a bunch of people then

1081
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 1: did a lot of interviews when I was a kid,

1082
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 1: you know, Aerosmith and Wolf pan Jack and other bands

1083
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 1: that were coming through town. And I was in college,

1084
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 1: part of my little side hustle was promoting some some concerts.

1085
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:26,720
Speaker 1: So I was initially focused on the music business. A

1086
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 1: couple of things happened that shifted my focus. The main

1087
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 1: one was I started in in the late seventies UH,

1088
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 1: when I was still in college, getting really fascinated with

1089
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 1: the idea of well we now think of as the Internet.

1090
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 1: I remember reading a book by a futurist, Alvin Toffler,

1091
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 1: when I was a senior UH in nineteen seventy nine,

1092
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 1: and the book was called the Third Wave, and he

1093
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:51,960
Speaker 1: was talking about, UH, this next wave was going to

1094
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 1: be around digital technologies, and you know, the first wave

1095
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 1: was agriculture and the second wave was industrial revolution. Third

1096
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 1: way was going to be a dual revolution, and I

1097
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:03,600
Speaker 1: was smitten with that idea. So that was part of

1098
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 1: what you led me onto a different path. But also

1099
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 1: I had some stumbles in the in the music business

1100
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 1: because my strategy, like Venture Capitel, was to back bands

1101
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 1: when I heard their albums and thought they could be

1102
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:17,640
Speaker 1: hits and booked them for dates like six or nine

1103
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:20,960
Speaker 1: months later, with the idea that you know, obviously sometimes

1104
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 1: to get it wrong and nobody would come to the concert,

1105
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:25,000
Speaker 1: but if I got it right, I would lock in

1106
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 1: a band at a pretty good price. And that seemed

1107
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 1: like a pretty, you know, pretty clever idea to me.

1108
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:32,880
Speaker 1: But what I didn't realize is is often you were

1109
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 1: wrong and nobody would show up. But when you were

1110
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 1: right and you were just a promoting college college concerts

1111
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:42,520
Speaker 1: in New England and had no cloud, the bands that

1112
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 1: were successful would cancel on you. And I had two

1113
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 1: examples of this, and I booked both Meat Loaf I think,

1114
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 1: for one of their first dates and Cheap Trick Uh

1115
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:55,320
Speaker 1: for one of their early dates for five dollars each.

1116
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 1: For our concert that were like six months down the road.

1117
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 1: Both of them canceled on me a cheap trick. We've

1118
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:02,840
Speaker 1: got a deal with our offer to be on Don

1119
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 1: Kirsha's rock concert or something like that. So I said, Okay,

1120
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 1: this is not working for me. If I guess wrong,

1121
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 1: nobody comes. If I guess right, they cancel on me.

1122
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 1: I got to move on and thankfully was able to

1123
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 1: pivot to the pivot to the internet. There are stories

1124
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:21,480
Speaker 1: of you being an entrepreneur in college selling different things.

1125
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:25,320
Speaker 1: Are those true? Yeah? Yeah, I was definitely. Uh. We

1126
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:28,400
Speaker 1: had all kinds of different side hustle, some of those

1127
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:32,880
Speaker 1: concert promotions. Some it was one business we had was

1128
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:37,200
Speaker 1: called Williams Fruit Baskets and the pitch was went to

1129
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 1: parents because we realized the parents had the money, the

1130
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 1: kid didn't really have the money. That when it was

1131
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 1: coming time for like to study for exam at the

1132
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 1: end of the semester and send these letters to parents saying,

1133
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:51,960
Speaker 1: you know, don't you want your child to eat healthy

1134
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 1: when when they're studying for exams, And why don't you

1135
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 1: order a fruit basket and we will we will hand

1136
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:00,360
Speaker 1: pick the fruit and deliver it to your your student

1137
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:03,080
Speaker 1: just when they're in this uh, this challenging period. And

1138
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:05,840
Speaker 1: that business did did pretty well. And we also had

1139
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 1: some other bus businesses things like that. So yeah, again

1140
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 1: none of them were big successes, but I enjoyed starting

1141
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:13,960
Speaker 1: them and I got learned a little bit from each

1142
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:16,520
Speaker 1: of them. Well, so if I was on campus, not

1143
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 1: that many people go to Williams would say, oh, yeah,

1144
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:22,080
Speaker 1: that's the guy who starts the businesses. That's the guy

1145
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:27,479
Speaker 1: who does that. That was me. That was me. Really

1146
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:30,640
Speaker 1: sad part is, at one point professor pulled me aside,

1147
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 1: I think it was a junior at the time and said,

1148
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 1: essentially they realized that I was spending less time in

1149
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:41,400
Speaker 1: class doing the work I should have been doing, and

1150
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 1: more time on these businesses on the sides and said

1151
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:48,080
Speaker 1: sat me down, said you know, Steve, you know, we

1152
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 1: know you're like super passionate about some of these ideas,

1153
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:53,120
Speaker 1: but you know, college is kind of a once in

1154
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:55,920
Speaker 1: a lifetime opportunity. You're only here for four years and

1155
01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:58,440
Speaker 1: you have an opportunity to learn things and meet people

1156
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 1: and really kind of ban your mind and so forth.

1157
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:04,439
Speaker 1: So it's it really encourage you to spend a little

1158
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:06,600
Speaker 1: less time of the business things, but you can always

1159
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 1: do later and more time on on the you know,

1160
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:12,479
Speaker 1: the college things. And of course I recognized he was right,

1161
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 1: but at that point I was, you know, too far

1162
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 1: into my other things. So I did okay in college,

1163
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:21,080
Speaker 1: but nobody you know, thought I was gonna, you know,

1164
01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:25,400
Speaker 1: kinda was gonna win any awards. Your father was a

1165
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:29,000
Speaker 1: lawyer that you grew up in a somewhat comfortable upbringing.

1166
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 1: Were you forming these businesses to make money or to

1167
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 1: have the experience of building a business? Yeah, I think both.

1168
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 1: I dad was a lawyer and I'm a teacher, as

1169
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 1: you said, and he was always lived a comfortable, kind

1170
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 1: of upper middle class, you know kind of life, um,

1171
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 1: and so I never had to worry about kind of

1172
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 1: some of the basic things a lot of people have

1173
01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 1: to worry about. But my parents also really believed in in,

1174
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:04,200
Speaker 1: you know, people being independent and resilient, and so I

1175
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 1: got a little bit of allowance, but not much and

1176
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 1: had to do a lot of chores for it. And

1177
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 1: if we really wanted to, you know, buy something, you

1178
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 1: need to figure out some way to make some money.

1179
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:14,520
Speaker 1: So it was not you know kind of here's here's

1180
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 1: our credit card. Uh, you know, you know, I guess

1181
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 1: at back then the credit cards were not even a thing.

1182
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 1: But but you know, you want to buy something, you know,

1183
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 1: you know we'll pay for it. That was not the

1184
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:28,600
Speaker 1: the the ethots. It was more of a we'll give

1185
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:29,840
Speaker 1: you a little bit of money if you do a

1186
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:33,120
Speaker 1: bunch of chores. Uh. And but if you really wanted,

1187
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 1: you know, you have any real flexibility to do anything much,

1188
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 1: you know, you have to go get a job and

1189
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:41,640
Speaker 1: whether that. Sometimes it was just getting jobs, basic jobs

1190
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:45,720
Speaker 1: and doing different things um over the years. And sometimes

1191
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 1: it was starting things, you know, to to also have

1192
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 1: a path to you know, make some make a little

1193
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:52,880
Speaker 1: extra money. But as you said, also there was something

1194
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 1: about the idea of starting the businesses that that also

1195
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 1: was kind of intriguing to me. So you know, for

1196
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:07,840
Speaker 1: me it was sort of a two. When I was

1197
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:10,919
Speaker 1: going to college a few years ahead of you, Uh,

1198
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 1: Williams was not co ed, And I said, no way,

1199
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 1: what was the status of men and women when you

1200
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:20,920
Speaker 1: went to Williams? It had shifted a few years before,

1201
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:22,800
Speaker 1: not too many years, but just a few years before

1202
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:26,240
Speaker 1: I was there in seventy six through eighty. Uh by

1203
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 1: then was co ed. It was still uh majority men.

1204
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:33,720
Speaker 1: But it was it was definitely co ed, okay. And

1205
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:36,440
Speaker 1: what kind of kid were you there? You have a

1206
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 1: million friends? Were you ostracized? Were you popular? Unpopular? Sorry?

1207
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:44,360
Speaker 1: In the middle. I was involved in a bunch of

1208
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 1: different things, including co chairing the entertainment committee that was

1209
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:51,040
Speaker 1: booking concerts to come to the college, worked at the

1210
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 1: radio station, and and uh and so I had some

1211
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:56,720
Speaker 1: and at some of the side businesses that I that

1212
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:59,400
Speaker 1: I mentioned. Um, so I was involved in a bunch

1213
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:02,520
Speaker 1: of different different things. But I would say it was

1214
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:04,720
Speaker 1: sort of kind of the the middle of the pack in

1215
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:08,320
Speaker 1: terms of you know, friend groups and things like that.

1216
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:12,080
Speaker 1: So you applied to get an m b A and

1217
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 1: you didn't get in anywhere? Were you just going through

1218
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:17,480
Speaker 1: the motions or did you really want to get an

1219
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:19,240
Speaker 1: m B A? And how did you feel when you

1220
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:22,040
Speaker 1: didn't get it? Yeah, that was kind of a bummer,

1221
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:25,000
Speaker 1: which is you know. Of course it's been made for

1222
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:29,120
Speaker 1: a fun story since because the two schools I applied to,

1223
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:33,560
Speaker 1: Harvard and and Stanford both rejected me and spoken on

1224
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:36,200
Speaker 1: their campuses a bunch of times. I'm always quick to

1225
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:40,120
Speaker 1: remind them of what In fact. One time it came

1226
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:42,040
Speaker 1: out with another book about six years ago called The

1227
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:45,200
Speaker 1: Third Wave. And I was uh in Boston going to

1228
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 1: some television station to film something and drove by the

1229
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:50,880
Speaker 1: Harvard Business School campus and I said stop, stop, stop,

1230
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 1: and we got out and uh, I did a little

1231
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 1: quick I think it was a Facebook live thing or something. Uh,

1232
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:01,880
Speaker 1: some live video basic wandering are on the campus, you know,

1233
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:04,560
Speaker 1: to find the admissions office to ask why they turned

1234
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:07,200
Speaker 1: me down whatever a number of thirty plus years ago,

1235
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 1: so it's kind of a yeah, fun So I answer

1236
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:11,680
Speaker 1: the question I was. I was not sure what I

1237
01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:14,080
Speaker 1: was gonna do at that point. I thought that was

1238
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:17,439
Speaker 1: a good path at least pursue. And at the time,

1239
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:20,960
Speaker 1: most of the business schools didn't really accept them many

1240
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:23,120
Speaker 1: kids right out of school. They wanted to get some

1241
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:26,760
Speaker 1: few years of work experience first. So I didn't really

1242
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:28,880
Speaker 1: have a high expectation that I get in, but figured

1243
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:31,040
Speaker 1: if I did, that at least would be an option

1244
01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:34,640
Speaker 1: I would consider. Meanwhile, I was interviewing for a bunch

1245
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 1: of other jobs and New York and other member of

1246
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 1: interview and HBO and some ad agencies and so forth,

1247
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:43,200
Speaker 1: just trying to figure out what what I was gonna

1248
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:47,040
Speaker 1: do at the time, I really knew I wanted to

1249
01:06:47,040 --> 01:06:48,920
Speaker 1: the old a company like an A O L. I

1250
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:52,360
Speaker 1: knew it even back in when I was graduating that

1251
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:54,720
Speaker 1: I believed the idea of the Internet was a big

1252
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:56,560
Speaker 1: idea and I wanted to figure out some way to

1253
01:06:57,240 --> 01:06:59,920
Speaker 1: pursue that path. But when I was graduating, since the

1254
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:03,439
Speaker 1: Internet was still mostly a research technology, it was still

1255
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:08,040
Speaker 1: limited to government agencies and educational institutions. Consumers and businesses

1256
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:10,400
Speaker 1: weren't able to use the Internet when I was graduating

1257
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:14,600
Speaker 1: from college. Uh, there really wasn't an Internet industry. I could,

1258
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:17,240
Speaker 1: you know, inter act in the Internet company I could

1259
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:20,200
Speaker 1: could join. And back then when I was graduate college,

1260
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:23,400
Speaker 1: venture capitalists, you know, weren't backing twenty one year old

1261
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:25,560
Speaker 1: kids coming out of college. They were they were They were,

1262
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:29,200
Speaker 1: you know, looking for more seasoned people with more experience.

1263
01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:31,320
Speaker 1: And so that's what led me on the path. We're

1264
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:34,560
Speaker 1: working for some big companies, Procter and gam once Cincinnati.

1265
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 1: Well before you before you get there, so you talk

1266
01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:44,320
Speaker 1: about reading the Toffler book and having an inspiration. Did

1267
01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:47,840
Speaker 1: you learn anything about that in college or was it

1268
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:52,760
Speaker 1: all self education? And did anything you learned in college

1269
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:55,640
Speaker 1: help you as you went down the line or it

1270
01:07:55,760 --> 01:08:01,280
Speaker 1: was just a contained experience. Uh, well, it's it's it's

1271
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:04,600
Speaker 1: a complicated question. Break into a couple of parts. Uh.

1272
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:10,400
Speaker 1: The interest in essence the Internet technology, uh was inspired

1273
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:12,280
Speaker 1: in part by the top of the book. But even

1274
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:14,360
Speaker 1: before I read the top of the book, I was

1275
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:17,080
Speaker 1: spending a lot of time doing my own research in

1276
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:20,559
Speaker 1: the college library, reading all kinds of newspapers magazines, because

1277
01:08:20,600 --> 01:08:23,160
Speaker 1: back then, in the late seventies, there was some of

1278
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:27,519
Speaker 1: these new technologies that were being trialed, things like mini

1279
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:31,240
Speaker 1: tel in France and Prestel in the UK, and concept

1280
01:08:31,320 --> 01:08:35,719
Speaker 1: like video text and teletext and interactive TV warrant amics

1281
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:39,360
Speaker 1: at a system called cube and being tested in since

1282
01:08:39,360 --> 01:08:41,400
Speaker 1: saniel Hio and Columbus, Ohio. So there are a bunch

1283
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:44,040
Speaker 1: of things that were bubbling even the late seventies that

1284
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:47,559
Speaker 1: I found really intriguing that in retrospect were kind of

1285
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:51,679
Speaker 1: a really early days first experiments and what then ultimately

1286
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:54,240
Speaker 1: led to, you know, the Internet. Uh. So I was

1287
01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:57,280
Speaker 1: learning a lot, but it was not necessarily classes I

1288
01:08:57,360 --> 01:09:00,840
Speaker 1: was taking that we have related to to you know,

1289
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:04,439
Speaker 1: things that I was focused on then. But I would say,

1290
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 1: and this is true, I think for any uh, you know,

1291
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:09,760
Speaker 1: kind of liberal arts education. I think the value, at

1292
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 1: least the value to me was learning a little bit

1293
01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:15,360
Speaker 1: about a lot of things, which gives you a broader

1294
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:19,839
Speaker 1: perspective on life and broader perspective on the world. Learning

1295
01:09:19,840 --> 01:09:25,280
Speaker 1: how to aggregate and synthesize information and come up with conclusions,

1296
01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:28,680
Speaker 1: points of view, learn how to communicate you know, those conclusions.

1297
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:31,040
Speaker 1: So I think there are a bunch of things that

1298
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:34,320
Speaker 1: that did end up serving me well, even if any

1299
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:39,280
Speaker 1: the specific course material, uh you know one specific things

1300
01:09:39,360 --> 01:09:41,960
Speaker 1: you could connect to what I ended up you know,

1301
01:09:42,040 --> 01:09:46,120
Speaker 1: later doing. So I'm actually bullish on the value of

1302
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:49,559
Speaker 1: a liberal arts education, uh, while at the same time

1303
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:54,439
Speaker 1: recognizing that that entrepreneurs will end up being passionate about

1304
01:09:54,439 --> 01:09:58,680
Speaker 1: a particular idea and likely will pursue that idea in

1305
01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:00,960
Speaker 1: a lot of different ways, and and many of them

1306
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:04,559
Speaker 1: are uncoupled from what they might learn and while they're

1307
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:06,840
Speaker 1: in in college. Although it might also would say it's

1308
01:10:06,920 --> 01:10:10,320
Speaker 1: changed quite a bit. I have visited, uh dozens of

1309
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:14,160
Speaker 1: dozens universities over the years, including related to our work

1310
01:10:14,200 --> 01:10:15,760
Speaker 1: with rise Rest, and even saw him in the last

1311
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:18,360
Speaker 1: month since the Rise of Rest book came out and

1312
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:21,040
Speaker 1: it's amazing to see how many universities really are leading

1313
01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:24,000
Speaker 1: into entrepreneurship. And in Phoenix a couple of weeks ago

1314
01:10:24,080 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 1: is at Arizona State University. They have a whole dorm

1315
01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:29,960
Speaker 1: focused on entrepreneurship and makers and builders and so forth.

1316
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:32,639
Speaker 1: So there's a lot more happening on campuses now than

1317
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:34,680
Speaker 1: we're when I was there. You were there in the

1318
01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:37,599
Speaker 1: in the in the in the seventies. Uh So I'd say,

1319
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:39,200
Speaker 1: you know that I did learn a lot kind of

1320
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:43,120
Speaker 1: self taught around the The ideas of that ultimately for

1321
01:10:43,160 --> 01:10:45,160
Speaker 1: me became you know, kind of a o L and

1322
01:10:45,439 --> 01:10:48,639
Speaker 1: more broadly, you know, the Internet. And do think looking

1323
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:52,000
Speaker 1: back that I've benefited, you know, considerably from that that

1324
01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:56,360
Speaker 1: kind of broad liberal arts education. So you got rejected

1325
01:10:56,400 --> 01:10:59,760
Speaker 1: by PNG, but you showed up then they gave you

1326
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:02,840
Speaker 1: a job. Yeah, I'm this line of questioning, Bob. It's

1327
01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:05,120
Speaker 1: really kind of it's gonna kind of making a little

1328
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:09,240
Speaker 1: PTSD for mere. Yes. Yes, every every school, in business

1329
01:11:09,240 --> 01:11:11,599
Speaker 1: school I applied to reject the man. Yes, the companies

1330
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:13,640
Speaker 1: I really wanted to work for, not just P and G,

1331
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:16,680
Speaker 1: but HBO and many others rejected me. So thank you

1332
01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:19,240
Speaker 1: for pointing out that out no, no, no, when I

1333
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:22,240
Speaker 1: kept fighting and I kept fighting, and and I think

1334
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:25,600
Speaker 1: the second part of that PNGNG story, as you know,

1335
01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:29,000
Speaker 1: was they did reject me. I just didn't did an

1336
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:31,320
Speaker 1: interview on campus, and you know, they just you know,

1337
01:11:31,479 --> 01:11:33,679
Speaker 1: weren't interested in a follow on interview. But I really

1338
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:36,439
Speaker 1: was interested in P ANDNG. There's something about the company

1339
01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:38,920
Speaker 1: and their training program for marketing people that I thought

1340
01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:42,000
Speaker 1: would be really good fit for me. So it basically

1341
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:45,360
Speaker 1: appealed their decision. That wrote to Lennon said I'm sorry.

1342
01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:47,080
Speaker 1: I don't remember exactly what it was, but something like,

1343
01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:49,360
Speaker 1: I'm sorry that interview that goes so well. I really,

1344
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:51,280
Speaker 1: you know, I think P ANDG would be a good fit.

1345
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:52,880
Speaker 1: Here's two or three reasons why I think it would

1346
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:55,519
Speaker 1: be a good fit. Please give me another chance. I'd

1347
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:58,000
Speaker 1: like to have, you know, a second bite at the

1348
01:11:58,040 --> 01:12:01,120
Speaker 1: Apple if you will. Um And so they said, okay, well,

1349
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:04,400
Speaker 1: if you'll get to New York City, you know, in

1350
01:12:04,439 --> 01:12:07,160
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks, um on, thus in such a

1351
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:09,840
Speaker 1: day that we will have somebody who will meet you.

1352
01:12:09,880 --> 01:12:12,120
Speaker 1: And I think they're just kind of testing me. When

1353
01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:13,599
Speaker 1: I was a little bit of a hassle. I had

1354
01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:15,560
Speaker 1: to you know, kind of take the you know, the

1355
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:17,960
Speaker 1: bus to the city and figure out some way to

1356
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:20,719
Speaker 1: kind of get there. And with the middle of winner,

1357
01:12:20,800 --> 01:12:23,320
Speaker 1: so it wasn't exactly the easiest time to be getting around.

1358
01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:26,160
Speaker 1: And the fact I just showed up, I think I

1359
01:12:26,200 --> 01:12:30,200
Speaker 1: think I passed the persistence test and the passion test,

1360
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:32,920
Speaker 1: and that was a better interview. So ultimately I did

1361
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:35,439
Speaker 1: end up, you know, getting that job and moving to

1362
01:12:35,439 --> 01:12:38,639
Speaker 1: to Cincinnati. Well, you're talking about the PTSD. I guess

1363
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:41,160
Speaker 1: the reason I'm asking these questions is not to point

1364
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:43,679
Speaker 1: out the bumps in the road, but to ask how

1365
01:12:43,680 --> 01:12:48,559
Speaker 1: did you maintain your optimism? Well, I understand that, and

1366
01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:52,360
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. The the um I don't know this

1367
01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:56,240
Speaker 1: is this is part of uh, the entrepreneural journey. You know,

1368
01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:58,880
Speaker 1: you're gonna you're gonna have a lot of setbacks. Even

1369
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:01,600
Speaker 1: the early days of A Oh well, we struggle a

1370
01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:04,120
Speaker 1: couple of times. We had to go through layoffs. Many

1371
01:13:04,240 --> 01:13:07,760
Speaker 1: people thought we wouldn't survive, you know, the company would

1372
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:10,280
Speaker 1: just kind of hit the wall. Uh, we had many,

1373
01:13:10,320 --> 01:13:12,479
Speaker 1: you know, many challenges there. Remember one point we had

1374
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:15,400
Speaker 1: a deal with Apple worked on for months and months

1375
01:13:15,400 --> 01:13:17,960
Speaker 1: and months and the licensed their brand name is create

1376
01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:20,720
Speaker 1: something called Apple and Personal Edition, and they decided to

1377
01:13:21,080 --> 01:13:24,240
Speaker 1: not long after we launched, to cancel it and and

1378
01:13:24,360 --> 01:13:26,840
Speaker 1: uh tear up our contract. And a lot of people

1379
01:13:26,840 --> 01:13:29,120
Speaker 1: then thought, you know, company would would hit the wall.

1380
01:13:29,160 --> 01:13:32,960
Speaker 1: We had all kinds of you know, challenges, and that

1381
01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:36,320
Speaker 1: that is the entrepreneur journey. There's very few overnight successes.

1382
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:38,800
Speaker 1: Most of them are kind of a slog and eventually,

1383
01:13:39,320 --> 01:13:41,000
Speaker 1: you know, things kind of you know, if you stick

1384
01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:42,800
Speaker 1: with it, things you know kind of turned out. So

1385
01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:45,040
Speaker 1: I think that gave me that if you believe it's

1386
01:13:45,080 --> 01:13:48,400
Speaker 1: a you know, idea worth fighting for, a business worth building,

1387
01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:50,439
Speaker 1: that that you know that you keep keep fighting, you

1388
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:52,880
Speaker 1: keep persisting. And I think some of that may have

1389
01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:54,599
Speaker 1: been you know, kind of some of those early days,

1390
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:56,800
Speaker 1: maybe even some of those rejections as you noticed and

1391
01:13:57,200 --> 01:14:00,439
Speaker 1: noted and you know, continuing to fight to get what

1392
01:14:00,479 --> 01:14:03,240
Speaker 1: I thought was was at least for me, the right,

1393
01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:06,920
Speaker 1: right next step. I think you just learned the importance

1394
01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:12,120
Speaker 1: of persistence and keep fighting. Even frankly, when I started

1395
01:14:12,160 --> 01:14:15,080
Speaker 1: the the the A O. L and we you know,

1396
01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:17,800
Speaker 1: struggle to raise capital in those early days, and most

1397
01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:20,479
Speaker 1: people did not believe the Internet would ever be a

1398
01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:23,920
Speaker 1: mainstream phenomenon. It seems crazy now, but most people would

1399
01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:25,960
Speaker 1: say things to me like, what you really think people

1400
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:29,639
Speaker 1: are going to buy something called a personal computer and

1401
01:14:29,640 --> 01:14:32,439
Speaker 1: and then sit down in front of a keyboard to

1402
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:35,680
Speaker 1: type a message to somebody when they can just pick

1403
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:37,880
Speaker 1: up the phone and call somebody. That feels like a

1404
01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:40,519
Speaker 1: crazy idea. Said no, I actually do think that that's

1405
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:43,559
Speaker 1: gonna happen. Uh, and others. You know, a few years later,

1406
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:47,599
Speaker 1: when things around home shopping and electronic commerce started developing,

1407
01:14:47,680 --> 01:14:50,320
Speaker 1: people said, well, do you really think that average people,

1408
01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:54,400
Speaker 1: like normal people, would be comfortable buying a product from

1409
01:14:54,439 --> 01:14:57,320
Speaker 1: somebody they don't even know, and and you actually think

1410
01:14:57,360 --> 01:15:00,559
Speaker 1: they'll be comfortable with this internet thing to type their

1411
01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:03,800
Speaker 1: credit card in that somebody might some hacker might steal.

1412
01:15:03,800 --> 01:15:05,400
Speaker 1: I said, yeah, oh yeah, I think I think people

1413
01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:07,680
Speaker 1: will be interested in that. So there was a lot

1414
01:15:07,680 --> 01:15:10,879
Speaker 1: of skepticism, and it really was a decade of struggle

1415
01:15:10,960 --> 01:15:13,640
Speaker 1: before finally, you know, we we broke through. And when

1416
01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:16,240
Speaker 1: we first started Rise the Rest ten years ago, it

1417
01:15:16,320 --> 01:15:17,960
Speaker 1: was a little bit dejabu all over again. When I

1418
01:15:17,960 --> 01:15:20,599
Speaker 1: started talking about the idea of backing entrepreneurs all around

1419
01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:23,000
Speaker 1: the country. What would happen with these rising cities, How

1420
01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:26,160
Speaker 1: we could slow the branger into people leaving boomerang people back,

1421
01:15:26,240 --> 01:15:28,639
Speaker 1: more capital and more people, more places, you know, things

1422
01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:31,760
Speaker 1: we talked about earlier. Most people were skeptical. Most people

1423
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:34,719
Speaker 1: kind of didn't necessary roll their eyes, but they thought

1424
01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:39,880
Speaker 1: it was a mission that likely was gonna end up unsuccessful.

1425
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:42,440
Speaker 1: And you know, it's been great to see the progress

1426
01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:46,160
Speaker 1: we made in the last decade, and particularly the momentum

1427
01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:48,400
Speaker 1: in the last couple of years, which ultimately loved me

1428
01:15:48,439 --> 01:15:52,000
Speaker 1: to write the books. To me, it is around persistence,

1429
01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:53,720
Speaker 1: But I don't think it's unique to me. Most of

1430
01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:57,000
Speaker 1: the entrepreneurs I've known who ended up being successful had

1431
01:15:57,040 --> 01:16:01,040
Speaker 1: to deal with, you know, setbacks, but they just keep fighting. Okay,

1432
01:16:01,400 --> 01:16:03,439
Speaker 1: let's bring it up to today. Since you've been a

1433
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:07,960
Speaker 1: seer technologically in the past, what is your view on

1434
01:16:08,080 --> 01:16:14,160
Speaker 1: the metaverse and Facebook's pivot to the metaverse. Well, I'm

1435
01:16:14,160 --> 01:16:16,880
Speaker 1: a believer in the metaverse. We actually launched one of

1436
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:21,400
Speaker 1: the first metaverse products in the late nineteen eighties. We

1437
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:25,000
Speaker 1: did a partnership with Lucasfilm to create essentially a virtual

1438
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:29,880
Speaker 1: world with avatars. This was very rudimentary technology actually was

1439
01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:33,479
Speaker 1: a common or sixty four computer with a three bod modem,

1440
01:16:33,479 --> 01:16:36,799
Speaker 1: but essentially was in the early version of the metaverse.

1441
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:40,080
Speaker 1: Since I've always believed in that idea with gaming. I

1442
01:16:40,120 --> 01:16:43,320
Speaker 1: think some of the more recent applications in terms of

1443
01:16:43,680 --> 01:16:47,040
Speaker 1: kind of business use terms of creating much more immersive

1444
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:52,160
Speaker 1: experiences for people, including things like video conferencing really feels

1445
01:16:52,200 --> 01:16:54,840
Speaker 1: like you're you know, sitting with somebody and it's really

1446
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:57,120
Speaker 1: like a real room. All those things I think hold

1447
01:16:57,160 --> 01:17:00,760
Speaker 1: a lot of potential, but these things tend to take

1448
01:17:00,760 --> 01:17:03,840
Speaker 1: a while before they really are ready for prime time.

1449
01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:07,519
Speaker 1: And I think what Facebook now you know, meta is

1450
01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:11,880
Speaker 1: struggling with is have been making very very significant investments,

1451
01:17:11,960 --> 01:17:15,280
Speaker 1: you know, ten billion plus a year, and these metaverse

1452
01:17:15,360 --> 01:17:18,400
Speaker 1: technologies they're a little slower to to take off than

1453
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:21,439
Speaker 1: they thought, while they're seeing some challenges in their their

1454
01:17:21,439 --> 01:17:24,360
Speaker 1: core business and so they likely will you know, kind

1455
01:17:24,360 --> 01:17:26,360
Speaker 1: of you know, pull back at least a little bit

1456
01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:28,759
Speaker 1: on some of their their their efforts. So they probably

1457
01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:32,360
Speaker 1: are right in the long run, that's an important new platform,

1458
01:17:32,439 --> 01:17:34,800
Speaker 1: but they might have gotten a little ahead themselves in

1459
01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:37,360
Speaker 1: terms of the pace at which they were pursuing that

1460
01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:40,320
Speaker 1: the timing is certainly key. We certainly saw that with

1461
01:17:40,439 --> 01:17:43,880
Speaker 1: music being the canary in the coal mine for digital disruption,

1462
01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:47,240
Speaker 1: as I say, twenty odd years ago. But if we

1463
01:17:47,320 --> 01:17:54,000
Speaker 1: look forward within our lifetimes, will the public at large

1464
01:17:54,080 --> 01:18:02,080
Speaker 1: never participate in the metaverse? Or is augmented reality more

1465
01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:04,400
Speaker 1: the thing? What's your prediction there? Well, I think I

1466
01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:07,160
Speaker 1: think metaverse is one of these concepts like kind of

1467
01:18:07,200 --> 01:18:10,320
Speaker 1: like Web three, which is a basket of ideas and

1468
01:18:10,360 --> 01:18:12,479
Speaker 1: so you have to kind of parse it a little bit.

1469
01:18:12,880 --> 01:18:16,200
Speaker 1: I think I think, uh, augmented reality, virtual reality are

1470
01:18:16,360 --> 01:18:20,240
Speaker 1: are parts of the you know, the technology suite that

1471
01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:23,000
Speaker 1: make things like a metaverse possible and other things like that,

1472
01:18:23,080 --> 01:18:26,759
Speaker 1: and I do think they'll get broader adoption. Additional running

1473
01:18:26,800 --> 01:18:29,960
Speaker 1: a revolution the investment company, I'm currently the chair of

1474
01:18:29,960 --> 01:18:33,599
Speaker 1: the Smithsonian Institution. We have the twenty museums in Washington,

1475
01:18:33,640 --> 01:18:36,960
Speaker 1: d C. And research operations around the around the world,

1476
01:18:37,240 --> 01:18:39,320
Speaker 1: and a big focus there is how do you to

1477
01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:41,400
Speaker 1: not just assume people are going to come to d

1478
01:18:41,479 --> 01:18:43,920
Speaker 1: C to visit our physical museums, how do we take

1479
01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:46,040
Speaker 1: the Smithsonian to them? How do we take the Smithsonian

1480
01:18:46,080 --> 01:18:49,720
Speaker 1: to every home in every classroom, and obviously digital technologies

1481
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:52,160
Speaker 1: are key part of that, and some of things including

1482
01:18:52,280 --> 01:18:54,840
Speaker 1: a virtual reality, augmented reality, or some of the things

1483
01:18:54,840 --> 01:18:57,240
Speaker 1: that we're testing out because it is a way to

1484
01:18:57,400 --> 01:19:01,000
Speaker 1: expand our kind of educational mandate. And I do think

1485
01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:04,720
Speaker 1: these technologies will get you know, get get broader adoption.

1486
01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:08,000
Speaker 1: But you say, sometimes there are these things are just

1487
01:19:08,040 --> 01:19:10,680
Speaker 1: take a little while. In fact, it reminds me the

1488
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:13,080
Speaker 1: first time I think we met in person was twenty

1489
01:19:13,160 --> 01:19:15,920
Speaker 1: years ago and backstage at an Eagles concert not long

1490
01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:19,280
Speaker 1: after a Will merge with Time Warner uh And and

1491
01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:22,519
Speaker 1: even then when we did the merger, which was in

1492
01:19:22,640 --> 01:19:25,679
Speaker 1: two thousands of twenty two years ago, we talked about

1493
01:19:25,680 --> 01:19:27,679
Speaker 1: at the time what was going to happen with streaming

1494
01:19:27,680 --> 01:19:32,519
Speaker 1: technologies for for movies and and television. We talked about

1495
01:19:32,560 --> 01:19:36,000
Speaker 1: what was gonna happen with music being digitized, things like Napster.

1496
01:19:36,120 --> 01:19:39,120
Speaker 1: We're just bumbling bubbling at the time, but there's a

1497
01:19:39,160 --> 01:19:42,519
Speaker 1: lot of nervousness in the in the music industry about it.

1498
01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:45,320
Speaker 1: The things that we we identified twenty years ago is

1499
01:19:45,680 --> 01:19:50,719
Speaker 1: being likely to happen, uh and likely happened soon did happen,

1500
01:19:50,840 --> 01:19:54,160
Speaker 1: but they took longer to happen and salally that company

1501
01:19:54,280 --> 01:19:56,680
Speaker 1: well in time, Warner together weren't able to capitalize on

1502
01:19:56,760 --> 01:19:59,360
Speaker 1: some of those opportunities. In retrospect, you know, we really

1503
01:19:59,360 --> 01:20:03,320
Speaker 1: should have lad the charge, not not the Apple with

1504
01:20:03,439 --> 01:20:07,920
Speaker 1: the iPod or or Spotify or or or Netflix or

1505
01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:11,320
Speaker 1: other things that really were the ultimate successors. It was

1506
01:20:11,360 --> 01:20:13,840
Speaker 1: clear even twenty years ago what was going to happen.

1507
01:20:14,479 --> 01:20:17,200
Speaker 1: We just didn't get organized to be able to pursue

1508
01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:19,880
Speaker 1: those opportunities. In a way, I wish we had some

1509
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:23,120
Speaker 1: of them. Sometimes it's timing sometimes to just execution, not

1510
01:20:23,160 --> 01:20:25,439
Speaker 1: having the right people focused on the right priorities and

1511
01:20:25,520 --> 01:20:27,560
Speaker 1: working together in the right right kind of ways. And

1512
01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:30,920
Speaker 1: so that was one of the lessons from that that merger.

1513
01:20:31,080 --> 01:20:33,639
Speaker 1: You know, it could have been this dominant company ended

1514
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:37,400
Speaker 1: up kind of shooting itself in the foot. Okay, let's

1515
01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:40,760
Speaker 1: go back to a o L. So the stories your

1516
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:43,960
Speaker 1: brother talks about, an opportunity, you get a job that

1517
01:20:44,240 --> 01:20:48,640
Speaker 1: ultimately morph into a O L. What is the special

1518
01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:53,679
Speaker 1: sauce that you bring? What is your skill that allows

1519
01:20:53,720 --> 01:20:56,080
Speaker 1: you to be successful and allows the companies you're working

1520
01:20:56,080 --> 01:21:01,320
Speaker 1: with to be successful? No, it it's hard to say.

1521
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:03,639
Speaker 1: I think it's a it's probably like most people, mixed

1522
01:21:03,640 --> 01:21:07,280
Speaker 1: of things. I think I do have a certain sense

1523
01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:09,639
Speaker 1: of the future, certain sense of what's possible. I think

1524
01:21:09,640 --> 01:21:12,280
Speaker 1: I think that that that's helpful. I do bring a

1525
01:21:12,360 --> 01:21:16,479
Speaker 1: certain passion and persistence to it. We talked about, you know,

1526
01:21:16,520 --> 01:21:19,960
Speaker 1: some of that before. I think that's that's helpful. I

1527
01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:23,479
Speaker 1: think I do bring up particular, uh, particularly early day

1528
01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:26,640
Speaker 1: to day well in particular skill set around marketing, you know,

1529
01:21:26,680 --> 01:21:28,200
Speaker 1: and some of the things that we did to really

1530
01:21:28,479 --> 01:21:32,080
Speaker 1: build the able brand and even distribute these free trial

1531
01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:34,519
Speaker 1: disc to the world to get people that you know,

1532
01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:36,720
Speaker 1: try out some of those marketing things. I think we're

1533
01:21:36,720 --> 01:21:39,360
Speaker 1: also kind of in my in my wheelhouse and thinking

1534
01:21:39,439 --> 01:21:43,240
Speaker 1: pretty good at building teams and getting people to work

1535
01:21:43,280 --> 01:21:47,200
Speaker 1: together on a on a shared mission and make it

1536
01:21:47,360 --> 01:21:51,040
Speaker 1: something that is aspirational, kind of a battle worth fighting.

1537
01:21:51,360 --> 01:21:53,200
Speaker 1: I think those are some of the dynamics. But I

1538
01:21:53,240 --> 01:21:55,559
Speaker 1: also would point out that none of the things I've

1539
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:57,360
Speaker 1: been able to do I could have done on my own.

1540
01:21:57,360 --> 01:22:00,519
Speaker 1: It really is about the the team and even those

1541
01:22:00,520 --> 01:22:02,960
Speaker 1: early A O L days. I brought some of that

1542
01:22:03,040 --> 01:22:05,840
Speaker 1: marketing sense to the other co founders. Mark Sarah brought

1543
01:22:05,840 --> 01:22:08,200
Speaker 1: the technology sense. Jim Kimsey brought them more of the

1544
01:22:08,240 --> 01:22:11,760
Speaker 1: business financial sense, and you know, none of the three

1545
01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:13,800
Speaker 1: of us could have done that without the other the

1546
01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:16,960
Speaker 1: other two. So it's just always a reminder to me

1547
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:21,240
Speaker 1: about this notion of off. We talked earlier about entrepreneurship

1548
01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:23,640
Speaker 1: really being a team sport. I have certain things I

1549
01:22:23,640 --> 01:22:26,840
Speaker 1: can contribute, but there are many other things I'm not

1550
01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:29,559
Speaker 1: good at and need to make sure the overall team

1551
01:22:29,600 --> 01:22:32,639
Speaker 1: has the right mix of skills and a shared sense

1552
01:22:32,680 --> 01:22:37,760
Speaker 1: of purpose and passion. Okay, I remember getting a free

1553
01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:41,519
Speaker 1: subscription to a O L via Warner Brothers Records. They

1554
01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:44,200
Speaker 1: had I think they had like ten free subscriptions. Had

1555
01:22:44,280 --> 01:22:47,360
Speaker 1: to give me one in nine two, and then I

1556
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:50,759
Speaker 1: started to hear from college students based on an article

1557
01:22:50,840 --> 01:22:54,920
Speaker 1: I wrote in the Tower Records magazine saying, you know,

1558
01:22:55,040 --> 01:22:58,320
Speaker 1: can I connect with you via the Internet? But I

1559
01:22:58,439 --> 01:23:02,280
Speaker 1: really did not become Although I had a modem bud

1560
01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:05,080
Speaker 1: at the time and I was connecting, it wasn't really

1561
01:23:05,160 --> 01:23:07,640
Speaker 1: till the summer of ninety five that I became to

1562
01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:10,600
Speaker 1: say it was an active user. Was ultimately a gross understatement.

1563
01:23:11,160 --> 01:23:14,679
Speaker 1: When did you know on the inside that you reached

1564
01:23:14,680 --> 01:23:20,519
Speaker 1: a turning point the either gaining traction or traction was imminent. Well,

1565
01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:22,920
Speaker 1: it was about that time. We started in eighty five,

1566
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:25,360
Speaker 1: but as I said before, it was really ten years

1567
01:23:25,400 --> 01:23:30,519
Speaker 1: of of slog to stay alive, tried different things to

1568
01:23:31,240 --> 01:23:34,679
Speaker 1: ultimately get successful. Uh. You know, we did go public

1569
01:23:34,800 --> 01:23:38,240
Speaker 1: and was the first Internet company to go public, so

1570
01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:40,040
Speaker 1: that was a little bit of a rite of passage.

1571
01:23:40,479 --> 01:23:44,040
Speaker 1: But even then there was a considerable skepticism in our

1572
01:23:44,080 --> 01:23:47,080
Speaker 1: I p O. We raised ten million dollars and the

1573
01:23:47,160 --> 01:23:49,959
Speaker 1: value of AO all that day was seventy million dollars,

1574
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:53,200
Speaker 1: and nobody knew or cared about this little company. A well,

1575
01:23:53,240 --> 01:23:54,960
Speaker 1: that was you know, going public. It was kind of

1576
01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:58,760
Speaker 1: a you know, a non event um and for a

1577
01:23:58,800 --> 01:24:01,120
Speaker 1: few more years it was still the struggle. Most people,

1578
01:24:01,280 --> 01:24:04,639
Speaker 1: you know, weren't really believers in the idea of the Internet.

1579
01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:09,439
Speaker 1: But it was about where interest started accelerating and people

1580
01:24:09,479 --> 01:24:12,360
Speaker 1: started hearing about this thing called the Worldwide Web. People

1581
01:24:12,360 --> 01:24:16,080
Speaker 1: started hearing about some of the services available on this

1582
01:24:16,720 --> 01:24:20,519
Speaker 1: Internet thingy and and started wanting to get online. Thankfully

1583
01:24:20,520 --> 01:24:22,320
Speaker 1: at that point in time, because we've been at it

1584
01:24:22,360 --> 01:24:24,640
Speaker 1: for so long, you know, I always kind of the

1585
01:24:24,720 --> 01:24:27,160
Speaker 1: right place at the right time, and that really drove

1586
01:24:27,240 --> 01:24:31,320
Speaker 1: our our growth in the late nineties UH and and

1587
01:24:31,439 --> 01:24:34,519
Speaker 1: uh our peak about half of all the Internet traffic

1588
01:24:34,600 --> 01:24:36,559
Speaker 1: United States went through a well. So it was to

1589
01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:40,280
Speaker 1: me an example of believing early in the idea, sticking

1590
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:42,400
Speaker 1: with it even though it took a decade and there

1591
01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:45,880
Speaker 1: were a bunch of near death experiences there. Even my

1592
01:24:45,920 --> 01:24:50,160
Speaker 1: parents one point called and said, like, Steve, it's like

1593
01:24:50,200 --> 01:24:53,160
Speaker 1: it's not working. It's you know, maybe it's time to like,

1594
01:24:53,560 --> 01:24:55,439
Speaker 1: you know, give it up and get a real job.

1595
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:57,559
Speaker 1: And no, I think, I think, I think it will work,

1596
01:24:57,600 --> 01:24:59,920
Speaker 1: and give me think think I'm gonna stick with it,

1597
01:25:00,360 --> 01:25:03,760
Speaker 1: and eventually eventually we we we broke through. So it's

1598
01:25:03,800 --> 01:25:08,000
Speaker 1: a to me, it's sort of revolution sometimes happened in

1599
01:25:08,080 --> 01:25:10,920
Speaker 1: evolutionary ways and you have to you know, kind of

1600
01:25:10,920 --> 01:25:13,080
Speaker 1: take the long view and and kind of be able

1601
01:25:13,120 --> 01:25:15,080
Speaker 1: to you know, kind of live to fight another day.

1602
01:25:15,160 --> 01:25:17,599
Speaker 1: But to answer your question, it was sort of inn

1603
01:25:18,760 --> 01:25:20,960
Speaker 1: were things really accelerated. I also remember I think it

1604
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:25,679
Speaker 1: was probably seven we moved to you know, from charging

1605
01:25:25,760 --> 01:25:29,960
Speaker 1: per hour to unlimited use. Not surprisingly, you should skyrocketed

1606
01:25:30,600 --> 01:25:33,759
Speaker 1: and our systems went down. There was so much demand

1607
01:25:33,840 --> 01:25:37,200
Speaker 1: that basically systems crashed. I it's for twenty three hours,

1608
01:25:37,200 --> 01:25:41,679
Speaker 1: AO was was inaccessible, which obviously was a problem because

1609
01:25:42,160 --> 01:25:44,439
Speaker 1: we had tried to get people to rely on us

1610
01:25:44,439 --> 01:25:48,720
Speaker 1: and we were not not providing the service they understandably expected.

1611
01:25:48,760 --> 01:25:51,200
Speaker 1: So in that sense, it was kind of mortifying, but

1612
01:25:51,360 --> 01:25:54,600
Speaker 1: also was it was It was in one way gratifying

1613
01:25:54,680 --> 01:25:57,800
Speaker 1: because it had gone from this thing that nobody cared

1614
01:25:57,840 --> 01:26:00,559
Speaker 1: about too suddenly it was this national story. It was

1615
01:26:00,800 --> 01:26:03,559
Speaker 1: lead story on the TV network, the lead headline most

1616
01:26:03,560 --> 01:26:07,080
Speaker 1: of the newspapers A well down and even a few

1617
01:26:07,120 --> 01:26:10,120
Speaker 1: years before, nobody even cared about it all. I who

1618
01:26:10,160 --> 01:26:12,400
Speaker 1: cares whether ails up or down? That's not that's not

1619
01:26:12,439 --> 01:26:14,840
Speaker 1: a story. So that to me was at one point

1620
01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:17,839
Speaker 1: where it felt like the Internet had arrived, Ail had arrived,

1621
01:26:17,960 --> 01:26:29,760
Speaker 1: had gone from being ignored to being essential. Okay, meanwhile,

1622
01:26:29,920 --> 01:26:34,680
Speaker 1: you get married and start a family, and frequently being

1623
01:26:34,720 --> 01:26:37,439
Speaker 1: an entrepreneur a musician, which is almost like being an

1624
01:26:37,560 --> 01:26:43,479
Speaker 1: entrepreneur requires all your time. Income is low. Uh did

1625
01:26:43,520 --> 01:26:47,000
Speaker 1: you hesitate saying, well, it's like telling your parents calling

1626
01:26:47,040 --> 01:26:49,360
Speaker 1: you know the job or joys feel that maybe I'll

1627
01:26:49,439 --> 01:26:52,200
Speaker 1: land on my feet. What were your thoughts going through

1628
01:26:52,240 --> 01:26:55,640
Speaker 1: your head then? No, I think there were there are

1629
01:26:55,760 --> 01:26:58,400
Speaker 1: some tough moments. Uh. It was it was still in

1630
01:26:58,439 --> 01:27:02,240
Speaker 1: my twenties that we're when we got started at mid twenties,

1631
01:27:02,280 --> 01:27:06,960
Speaker 1: and so when we went public, uh, I was early thirties.

1632
01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:09,360
Speaker 1: So this was kind of the real difficult years. We're

1633
01:27:09,400 --> 01:27:12,040
Speaker 1: kind of late like twenties, and and I think there

1634
01:27:12,040 --> 01:27:14,040
Speaker 1: were some moments where I wondered if I should do

1635
01:27:14,120 --> 01:27:17,080
Speaker 1: something else, but I really believed in the idea, and

1636
01:27:17,120 --> 01:27:20,639
Speaker 1: thankfully he was able to kind of you know, kind

1637
01:27:20,640 --> 01:27:23,679
Speaker 1: of get get by and kind of, as I said before,

1638
01:27:23,760 --> 01:27:25,760
Speaker 1: kind of lived to live to fight another day. Again.

1639
01:27:25,800 --> 01:27:28,080
Speaker 1: That's not you know, just my story. It's pretty common

1640
01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:31,840
Speaker 1: entrepreneur stories, you said, pretty common story, and other industries,

1641
01:27:31,880 --> 01:27:35,240
Speaker 1: including music, where people are you know, struggling For a

1642
01:27:35,240 --> 01:27:37,880
Speaker 1: while Springsteen was playing a whole lot of clubs, did

1643
01:27:38,000 --> 01:27:41,040
Speaker 1: nobody cared about until finally he was able to to

1644
01:27:41,439 --> 01:27:43,960
Speaker 1: break through. And I think it's a little bit of

1645
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:47,360
Speaker 1: a test. You learned some things about yourself thing that process.

1646
01:27:47,400 --> 01:27:50,040
Speaker 1: You also have some experiences that probably do make you

1647
01:27:50,200 --> 01:27:54,920
Speaker 1: better and stronger ultimately. But you know, there was some

1648
01:27:55,000 --> 01:27:58,599
Speaker 1: difficult periods of time, but thankfully I I stuck with it.

1649
01:27:58,640 --> 01:28:01,880
Speaker 1: And eventually, even though sometimes it felt like the light

1650
01:28:02,080 --> 01:28:04,120
Speaker 1: at the end of the tunnel was the light was

1651
01:28:04,280 --> 01:28:07,639
Speaker 1: far away and flickering, you know, I kind of stay

1652
01:28:07,720 --> 01:28:10,759
Speaker 1: with it, and eventually the tunnel got a little shorter

1653
01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:15,479
Speaker 1: and the light got a little brighter. Okay, so a

1654
01:28:15,680 --> 01:28:20,200
Speaker 1: O L is marching along. In tech, you have to

1655
01:28:20,240 --> 01:28:23,519
Speaker 1: be ahead of the game or you die. Whereas like

1656
01:28:23,560 --> 01:28:27,720
Speaker 1: other industries talking about Internet, in intellectual property industries, they

1657
01:28:27,720 --> 01:28:30,759
Speaker 1: have a catalog, They have a back list which keeps

1658
01:28:30,760 --> 01:28:35,559
Speaker 1: them alive. So alll starts to roll. To what degree

1659
01:28:35,600 --> 01:28:40,160
Speaker 1: were you focused on where we're going next? I was

1660
01:28:40,240 --> 01:28:42,720
Speaker 1: mostly focused on where we go next, and then secondarily

1661
01:28:43,000 --> 01:28:46,080
Speaker 1: focused on continuing to build a team to scale. Always

1662
01:28:46,080 --> 01:28:48,519
Speaker 1: started with a couple of dozen people. By the time

1663
01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:50,719
Speaker 1: we went public, it was less than two hundred people.

1664
01:28:51,360 --> 01:28:53,840
Speaker 1: Uh six seven years later at ten thou people. So

1665
01:28:53,880 --> 01:28:57,080
Speaker 1: it really it really scaled up pretty pretty dramatically. So

1666
01:28:57,520 --> 01:29:00,960
Speaker 1: I had to, like many entrepreneurs, you know, learned to

1667
01:29:01,720 --> 01:29:04,719
Speaker 1: to not do certain things I had been doing and

1668
01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:07,519
Speaker 1: build a team that I could empower and trust to

1669
01:29:07,640 --> 01:29:11,280
Speaker 1: do them because I needed to focus on some things

1670
01:29:11,320 --> 01:29:13,800
Speaker 1: that I could perhaps uniquely do, and some of it

1671
01:29:13,880 --> 01:29:16,360
Speaker 1: was trying to understand what was next and positioning a

1672
01:29:16,400 --> 01:29:19,040
Speaker 1: company for it. So was you know, building the team.

1673
01:29:19,120 --> 01:29:22,240
Speaker 1: Some of it also was being kind of a spokesman

1674
01:29:22,439 --> 01:29:24,439
Speaker 1: evangelist for the medium. I had to do a lot

1675
01:29:24,479 --> 01:29:27,519
Speaker 1: of things in the particularly the late nineties to educate

1676
01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:30,640
Speaker 1: people around about the Internet, the press, you know, Congress,

1677
01:29:30,720 --> 01:29:35,639
Speaker 1: other other other other folks, to other people in other countries.

1678
01:29:35,680 --> 01:29:39,559
Speaker 1: Even that, because all was visible, I became kind of

1679
01:29:39,600 --> 01:29:42,960
Speaker 1: a a spokesperson, not just very well but in many

1680
01:29:42,960 --> 01:29:45,360
Speaker 1: ways for the for the industry. So I had to

1681
01:29:45,400 --> 01:29:48,240
Speaker 1: focus on those things. I had to spend less time

1682
01:29:48,280 --> 01:29:49,880
Speaker 1: on some of the things I had done, including some

1683
01:29:49,960 --> 01:29:52,519
Speaker 1: of the marketing things, or some of the product things,

1684
01:29:52,600 --> 01:29:55,200
Speaker 1: or some of the technology things that I spent more

1685
01:29:55,240 --> 01:29:58,880
Speaker 1: time on in the early early years. Okay, so from

1686
01:29:58,880 --> 01:30:01,880
Speaker 1: my perspective, once a again I had a free subscription

1687
01:30:01,920 --> 01:30:03,880
Speaker 1: when you charged by the hour, never mind a free

1688
01:30:03,920 --> 01:30:07,360
Speaker 1: subscription through the nineties I was living on the service

1689
01:30:07,479 --> 01:30:11,120
Speaker 1: was a big education. I remember vividly in the summer

1690
01:30:11,160 --> 01:30:15,799
Speaker 1: of nine six you could launch a browser on AOL.

1691
01:30:16,800 --> 01:30:19,960
Speaker 1: But for me, the real breakthrough moment was in the

1692
01:30:20,040 --> 01:30:22,320
Speaker 1: summer of two thousand. I went to visit my sister

1693
01:30:22,360 --> 01:30:26,360
Speaker 1: in Minneapolis where she had a high speed connection, which

1694
01:30:26,400 --> 01:30:30,439
Speaker 1: of course led you to Napster. Now, in this particular case,

1695
01:30:31,320 --> 01:30:33,160
Speaker 1: I maintained, I don't think we had to pay for

1696
01:30:33,160 --> 01:30:36,520
Speaker 1: a while my A O L and the high speed connection,

1697
01:30:37,000 --> 01:30:40,400
Speaker 1: I got quite a way right away. But for me,

1698
01:30:41,280 --> 01:30:44,519
Speaker 1: what killed A O L or put a dent in

1699
01:30:44,600 --> 01:30:46,479
Speaker 1: it was more just the fact there was a high

1700
01:30:46,520 --> 01:30:49,479
Speaker 1: speed connection sold by the cable company or a third party,

1701
01:30:49,760 --> 01:30:52,800
Speaker 1: and that was twenty dollars right there, and people didn't

1702
01:30:52,840 --> 01:30:56,800
Speaker 1: want to spend multiple as opposed to it being the

1703
01:30:56,880 --> 01:31:00,439
Speaker 1: Web that put a dent in AO. Well, what do

1704
01:31:00,520 --> 01:31:03,280
Speaker 1: you think from your inside view, Yeah, I think that

1705
01:31:03,280 --> 01:31:07,840
Speaker 1: that's fair. The way AOL when it first launched, it

1706
01:31:08,120 --> 01:31:11,760
Speaker 1: as other competitors at the time, was separated from the

1707
01:31:11,800 --> 01:31:15,680
Speaker 1: Internet because at the time and when we started, it's

1708
01:31:15,680 --> 01:31:17,840
Speaker 1: hard for people to believe us. But it's true it

1709
01:31:17,920 --> 01:31:20,960
Speaker 1: was actually illegal for consumers or businesses to be on

1710
01:31:21,000 --> 01:31:24,160
Speaker 1: the Internet. A few years later, Congress passed some legislation

1711
01:31:24,200 --> 01:31:26,879
Speaker 1: to commercialize the Internet, but the early years it was separate.

1712
01:31:27,120 --> 01:31:30,760
Speaker 1: When the Internet got commercialized, that actually accelerated A A

1713
01:31:30,800 --> 01:31:33,400
Speaker 1: Well's growth because people wanted to be on the internet.

1714
01:31:33,640 --> 01:31:37,720
Speaker 1: We integrated a very fast web browsers, so actually you

1715
01:31:37,760 --> 01:31:42,320
Speaker 1: could get the websites through a well faster particularly with slow,

1716
01:31:42,520 --> 01:31:45,000
Speaker 1: slow modems, and you could with most of the other

1717
01:31:45,080 --> 01:31:48,160
Speaker 1: Internet service providers. And in addition to that, we provided

1718
01:31:48,200 --> 01:31:51,519
Speaker 1: a whole suite of services that were exclusive to well

1719
01:31:51,560 --> 01:31:55,560
Speaker 1: people connection and a lot of exclusive content and and

1720
01:31:55,640 --> 01:31:58,160
Speaker 1: other services, so sort of the Internet and a whole

1721
01:31:58,200 --> 01:32:00,840
Speaker 1: lot more for about the same price as the Internet only,

1722
01:32:01,240 --> 01:32:04,120
Speaker 1: and that's really what drove our our hyper growth in

1723
01:32:04,160 --> 01:32:08,280
Speaker 1: the late nine nineties. You're right, the transition to broadband

1724
01:32:08,360 --> 01:32:12,880
Speaker 1: was was more challenging. We actually argued in Congress to

1725
01:32:13,120 --> 01:32:17,160
Speaker 1: pass legislation to open up the cable broadband networks so

1726
01:32:17,320 --> 01:32:20,600
Speaker 1: it would work like the dial up narrowband networks. The

1727
01:32:20,680 --> 01:32:24,280
Speaker 1: phone companies were required to allow other people to operate

1728
01:32:24,360 --> 01:32:27,560
Speaker 1: on their their networks. The cable companies were not required

1729
01:32:27,600 --> 01:32:30,479
Speaker 1: to do that. Uh, And that effort did not succeed,

1730
01:32:30,560 --> 01:32:33,960
Speaker 1: and so essentially the broadband networks remained closed as opposed

1731
01:32:33,960 --> 01:32:36,080
Speaker 1: to being opened, which was one of the reasons that

1732
01:32:36,160 --> 01:32:38,439
Speaker 1: led to our merger with Time Warner, because the part

1733
01:32:38,439 --> 01:32:40,800
Speaker 1: of the reason to do that was Time Warner at

1734
01:32:40,800 --> 01:32:43,160
Speaker 1: the time had Time Warner Cable, which was the largest

1735
01:32:43,160 --> 01:32:47,000
Speaker 1: cable system with the largest broadband footprints, So we knew

1736
01:32:47,040 --> 01:32:50,439
Speaker 1: the market was moving to broadband. We couldn't on our

1737
01:32:50,479 --> 01:32:53,599
Speaker 1: own get there, and so by merging with Time Warner

1738
01:32:53,600 --> 01:32:55,800
Speaker 1: would have a clearer path the broadband as well as

1739
01:32:55,840 --> 01:32:59,160
Speaker 1: obviously all the other businesses that were part of Time Warner,

1740
01:32:59,200 --> 01:33:02,360
Speaker 1: including some of the media business, Warner Music, Warner Brothers,

1741
01:33:02,439 --> 01:33:06,000
Speaker 1: you know, CNN, HBO, you know, Time Ink, you know,

1742
01:33:06,120 --> 01:33:08,120
Speaker 1: many many other things that were part of that. So

1743
01:33:08,520 --> 01:33:10,439
Speaker 1: it was sort of the obvious thing to do in

1744
01:33:10,520 --> 01:33:13,120
Speaker 1: terms of ensuring our path the broadband, as well as

1745
01:33:13,160 --> 01:33:16,599
Speaker 1: having a broad suite of really great brands that would

1746
01:33:16,600 --> 01:33:20,240
Speaker 1: be more valuable in a in a digital world. So

1747
01:33:20,320 --> 01:33:23,679
Speaker 1: that really was the motivator doing. Unfortunately, once we did merge,

1748
01:33:24,280 --> 01:33:27,639
Speaker 1: uh that some of the synergies that struck me as obvious,

1749
01:33:27,640 --> 01:33:32,280
Speaker 1: we're not really pursued integrating a Well and Time Warner Cable.

1750
01:33:32,360 --> 01:33:35,120
Speaker 1: So it was one bundled offering, which is what you

1751
01:33:35,240 --> 01:33:39,240
Speaker 1: mentioned before, never happened, ended up really competing with each

1752
01:33:39,280 --> 01:33:42,799
Speaker 1: other as opposed to benefiting from each other, and ultimately

1753
01:33:42,840 --> 01:33:45,840
Speaker 1: that led to you know, not capitalizing on some of

1754
01:33:45,840 --> 01:33:49,320
Speaker 1: these opportunities, which which led to the a well going

1755
01:33:49,360 --> 01:33:51,360
Speaker 1: from the leader of the pact of being kind of

1756
01:33:51,400 --> 01:33:54,240
Speaker 1: irrelevant now, which is which is sad to see and

1757
01:33:54,479 --> 01:33:56,880
Speaker 1: it's sad to say, but that that that's the reality.

1758
01:33:56,920 --> 01:33:59,280
Speaker 1: I think the takeaway from me goes back to some

1759
01:33:59,320 --> 01:34:03,120
Speaker 1: of the things we talked about before getting the you know,

1760
01:34:03,160 --> 01:34:08,400
Speaker 1: the vision right is helpful and important, but that's really

1761
01:34:08,439 --> 01:34:10,840
Speaker 1: just the starting point. If you look at the initial

1762
01:34:10,920 --> 01:34:13,080
Speaker 1: press release we wrote when we merged ale on Time

1763
01:34:13,080 --> 01:34:17,200
Speaker 1: war two years ago, it was largely accurate and predicting

1764
01:34:17,280 --> 01:34:19,320
Speaker 1: what was going to happen over the next ten or

1765
01:34:19,320 --> 01:34:23,320
Speaker 1: twenty years. But our inability to organize the company to

1766
01:34:23,439 --> 01:34:26,839
Speaker 1: capitalize on those opportunities and some of the friction between

1767
01:34:26,880 --> 01:34:31,600
Speaker 1: different divisions basically hobbled our ability to execute against that

1768
01:34:31,680 --> 01:34:34,599
Speaker 1: vision and ultimately lead to you know, the company being

1769
01:34:34,640 --> 01:34:38,599
Speaker 1: broken up. So at what point, if the merger happened

1770
01:34:38,640 --> 01:34:41,840
Speaker 1: in two thousand, at what point did you have the

1771
01:34:41,920 --> 01:34:46,000
Speaker 1: idea it was Time Warner always the target or were

1772
01:34:46,040 --> 01:34:50,400
Speaker 1: there other companies in the mix. There are other companies

1773
01:34:50,400 --> 01:34:55,519
Speaker 1: in the mix. In in nineteen you know, the when

1774
01:34:55,520 --> 01:34:59,960
Speaker 1: the internet really was you know, growing dramatically in popular

1775
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:04,200
Speaker 1: already and a Well's growth rate was accelerating dramatically. Also,

1776
01:35:04,240 --> 01:35:09,000
Speaker 1: our stock market valuation accelerated dramatically. We went from mentioned

1777
01:35:09,000 --> 01:35:13,439
Speaker 1: we went public in seventy million by late ninete it

1778
01:35:13,520 --> 01:35:16,360
Speaker 1: was on sixty billion dollars. It was actually the best

1779
01:35:16,400 --> 01:35:19,360
Speaker 1: performing stock of the decades, something like eleven thousand percent

1780
01:35:19,439 --> 01:35:21,960
Speaker 1: increase from the time we went public. And so we

1781
01:35:22,120 --> 01:35:26,480
Speaker 1: did see the value of having more diversified mix of businesses.

1782
01:35:26,520 --> 01:35:29,960
Speaker 1: So we did want to use our our stock our currency,

1783
01:35:30,000 --> 01:35:33,080
Speaker 1: if you will, to merge with other companies. We considered

1784
01:35:33,080 --> 01:35:36,840
Speaker 1: a lot of different options, including some communications companies that

1785
01:35:37,040 --> 01:35:39,360
Speaker 1: you know, discussions with A T and T about merging

1786
01:35:39,439 --> 01:35:43,240
Speaker 1: for example. We also talked to a number of of

1787
01:35:43,800 --> 01:35:47,920
Speaker 1: internet companies, email, electronic arts, you know, others around merging.

1788
01:35:48,320 --> 01:35:50,960
Speaker 1: But but we always kept their eye on the prize,

1789
01:35:50,960 --> 01:35:53,000
Speaker 1: which we did believe was time warn't for the reasons

1790
01:35:53,080 --> 01:35:55,640
Speaker 1: I said before. It was unique in being able to

1791
01:35:56,120 --> 01:35:58,519
Speaker 1: you know, provide what at the time at least I

1792
01:35:58,560 --> 01:36:01,920
Speaker 1: thought was uh path the broadband that we couldn't get

1793
01:36:01,960 --> 01:36:04,320
Speaker 1: on our own and couldn't get with any other other company,

1794
01:36:04,720 --> 01:36:07,719
Speaker 1: which is why I pursued that in particular, and indeed

1795
01:36:07,720 --> 01:36:10,920
Speaker 1: the first conversation I had with Jerry Levine, who was,

1796
01:36:11,000 --> 01:36:13,000
Speaker 1: as you know, the CEO of Time Warner at the time,

1797
01:36:13,400 --> 01:36:17,000
Speaker 1: proposing the idea of merging our companies. Within the first

1798
01:36:17,040 --> 01:36:19,639
Speaker 1: minute of explaining why I thought we should merge our companies,

1799
01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:22,200
Speaker 1: I said, and if we can do this, I will

1800
01:36:22,240 --> 01:36:25,240
Speaker 1: step aside as CEO and let you run the combined company.

1801
01:36:25,800 --> 01:36:27,559
Speaker 1: Because I knew it would be hard to get a

1802
01:36:27,640 --> 01:36:30,960
Speaker 1: deal with with Time Warner had done. Our value was

1803
01:36:31,080 --> 01:36:33,479
Speaker 1: quite a bit higher than their value, and they're all

1804
01:36:33,520 --> 01:36:36,160
Speaker 1: kinds of other issues that we're going to be complicating issues.

1805
01:36:36,240 --> 01:36:38,719
Speaker 1: But since was the only path to get it done

1806
01:36:39,320 --> 01:36:43,960
Speaker 1: was to basically propose that the Time Warner side essentially

1807
01:36:44,000 --> 01:36:46,599
Speaker 1: run the combined company. So that's why I did. And

1808
01:36:46,640 --> 01:36:48,599
Speaker 1: when we when we did close the merger, I did

1809
01:36:48,600 --> 01:36:51,160
Speaker 1: step aside as a CEO, even a well didn't no

1810
01:36:51,240 --> 01:36:54,080
Speaker 1: longer reported to me. I was chair of the board

1811
01:36:54,080 --> 01:36:57,000
Speaker 1: for a couple of years, and then uh, you know,

1812
01:36:57,080 --> 01:36:59,320
Speaker 1: on the board for another year or two, and finally

1813
01:36:59,360 --> 01:37:01,880
Speaker 1: decided it was time to move on. We just had

1814
01:37:01,880 --> 01:37:05,120
Speaker 1: a difference of opinion of what to do, and I

1815
01:37:05,120 --> 01:37:07,640
Speaker 1: think they were getting tired of me saying let's go

1816
01:37:07,720 --> 01:37:09,640
Speaker 1: left when they wanted to go right, and I was

1817
01:37:09,760 --> 01:37:12,760
Speaker 1: tired as well, so it was time to to kind

1818
01:37:12,760 --> 01:37:15,680
Speaker 1: of part ways. And and even though it's obviously a

1819
01:37:15,680 --> 01:37:18,719
Speaker 1: big disappointment, and that ultimately led me on this path

1820
01:37:18,800 --> 01:37:21,240
Speaker 1: that had been on for most of the past two decades,

1821
01:37:21,720 --> 01:37:25,200
Speaker 1: instead of starting in their company, starting revolution a company

1822
01:37:25,200 --> 01:37:29,080
Speaker 1: to invest in many entrepreneurs with a particular bias, as

1823
01:37:29,120 --> 01:37:32,360
Speaker 1: we've discussed around investing in entrepreneurs outside of the usual

1824
01:37:32,439 --> 01:37:35,920
Speaker 1: hubs like like Silicon Valley. So the legend is that

1825
01:37:36,160 --> 01:37:40,560
Speaker 1: ultimately the time Warner side of the company became resistant

1826
01:37:40,600 --> 01:37:43,280
Speaker 1: to the A O L people in the A Well

1827
01:37:43,400 --> 01:37:47,479
Speaker 1: ideas set an accurate description, Yeah, I think that's accurate.

1828
01:37:47,520 --> 01:37:49,479
Speaker 1: I think in retrospect we could have handled it better.

1829
01:37:49,640 --> 01:37:52,600
Speaker 1: We probably were a little toned depth diplomatic as we

1830
01:37:52,640 --> 01:37:54,880
Speaker 1: could have been. There. There's definitely a sense that these,

1831
01:37:55,400 --> 01:37:57,120
Speaker 1: you know, new kids on the block that haven't been

1832
01:37:57,120 --> 01:38:00,360
Speaker 1: around long are coming and telling us you know what

1833
01:38:00,439 --> 01:38:02,720
Speaker 1: to do. And I'm sure there was more of that

1834
01:38:02,760 --> 01:38:04,960
Speaker 1: than I was even aware of, which was which was

1835
01:38:05,000 --> 01:38:08,760
Speaker 1: a mistake, But there also was a reluctance on the

1836
01:38:08,800 --> 01:38:11,559
Speaker 1: part of a lot of parts of the was then

1837
01:38:11,600 --> 01:38:15,360
Speaker 1: time Warner to really fully embrace the Internet, fully embraced

1838
01:38:15,400 --> 01:38:19,439
Speaker 1: the idea of digital convergence, fully embraced the reality. That

1839
01:38:19,520 --> 01:38:22,599
Speaker 1: also meant it would challenge some of the existing business models.

1840
01:38:22,680 --> 01:38:25,960
Speaker 1: You have to involve some of the interesting business models,

1841
01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:28,920
Speaker 1: and I think there was just a reluctance to do that,

1842
01:38:29,120 --> 01:38:31,960
Speaker 1: and in a sense that might take longer for some

1843
01:38:32,040 --> 01:38:35,639
Speaker 1: of those innovations to to happen. I again sort of

1844
01:38:35,840 --> 01:38:38,720
Speaker 1: remember a meeting probably at least twenty years ago with

1845
01:38:38,760 --> 01:38:41,400
Speaker 1: some of the folks UM on the Warner Music side

1846
01:38:41,560 --> 01:38:44,280
Speaker 1: and talking about was likely I thought it conda happen

1847
01:38:44,360 --> 01:38:49,080
Speaker 1: around streaming, and what likely also going to happen around um,

1848
01:38:49,120 --> 01:38:52,160
Speaker 1: you know, kind of how music companies might be structured,

1849
01:38:52,200 --> 01:38:54,280
Speaker 1: and over time maybe it's a little bit more like

1850
01:38:54,479 --> 01:38:57,120
Speaker 1: you know, venture capital, where they're investing in a new

1851
01:38:57,240 --> 01:39:01,679
Speaker 1: artist and and share in the upside across multiple, uh,

1852
01:39:01,760 --> 01:39:04,599
Speaker 1: you know, parts of the artist's career what then became

1853
01:39:04,600 --> 01:39:07,080
Speaker 1: known as three sixty deals. That seemed like it was

1854
01:39:07,120 --> 01:39:09,120
Speaker 1: a pretty obvious thing that was going to happen, but

1855
01:39:09,160 --> 01:39:11,160
Speaker 1: there was a lot of resistance to that because the time,

1856
01:39:11,200 --> 01:39:14,160
Speaker 1: as you know, the way that business was organized, as

1857
01:39:14,560 --> 01:39:17,240
Speaker 1: you know, the music companies just put out the music,

1858
01:39:17,320 --> 01:39:19,439
Speaker 1: and you know, somebody else did the concerts, and somebody

1859
01:39:19,439 --> 01:39:21,360
Speaker 1: else had the publishing, and somebody else did this, and

1860
01:39:21,400 --> 01:39:24,400
Speaker 1: somebody else did that, and having a more integrated view

1861
01:39:24,400 --> 01:39:27,040
Speaker 1: of it was just not something most people either believed

1862
01:39:27,040 --> 01:39:30,240
Speaker 1: in or just believed you practically they could get everybody

1863
01:39:30,320 --> 01:39:33,040
Speaker 1: organized and headed in that, you know, that direction. So

1864
01:39:33,400 --> 01:39:35,080
Speaker 1: again it goes back to I said earlier, it's sort

1865
01:39:35,080 --> 01:39:39,160
Speaker 1: of a lesson around you know, the idea is important,

1866
01:39:39,240 --> 01:39:43,240
Speaker 1: but ultimately it's putting that idea into action. Uh. And

1867
01:39:43,280 --> 01:39:45,400
Speaker 1: the fact that we had some of the right ideas

1868
01:39:45,439 --> 01:39:47,600
Speaker 1: around what was going to happen with broadband, I was

1869
01:39:47,600 --> 01:39:49,479
Speaker 1: going to happen with streaming, or what was going to

1870
01:39:49,560 --> 01:39:53,760
Speaker 1: happen with many many different things is sort of irrelevant

1871
01:39:53,840 --> 01:39:57,080
Speaker 1: because we weren't able to be the company that actually

1872
01:39:57,760 --> 01:40:01,680
Speaker 1: made that happen. And so that apply that lesson to

1873
01:40:01,800 --> 01:40:05,439
Speaker 1: the work we're doing now at Revolution, including Rise of

1874
01:40:05,439 --> 01:40:07,000
Speaker 1: the Rest. And part of the reason they even wrote

1875
01:40:07,000 --> 01:40:08,760
Speaker 1: the book on the Rise of the Rest is I

1876
01:40:08,800 --> 01:40:11,959
Speaker 1: really wanted to tell the stories of these these entrepreneurs,

1877
01:40:11,960 --> 01:40:16,240
Speaker 1: these companies that were doing amazing things that really inspired me.

1878
01:40:16,320 --> 01:40:21,040
Speaker 1: And and also surprised me in many ways, and I

1879
01:40:21,080 --> 01:40:24,799
Speaker 1: wanted to make sure that people understood what was happening

1880
01:40:24,800 --> 01:40:27,360
Speaker 1: with these with these companies, and particularly understood what was

1881
01:40:27,400 --> 01:40:30,479
Speaker 1: happening in these cities that we're kind of being renewed

1882
01:40:30,520 --> 01:40:33,760
Speaker 1: and revitalized because of the work of those entrepreneurs. So

1883
01:40:33,760 --> 01:40:36,080
Speaker 1: it goes back to this issue of of trying to

1884
01:40:36,479 --> 01:40:39,599
Speaker 1: make sure, you know, we don't just say we think

1885
01:40:39,600 --> 01:40:42,000
Speaker 1: the rest surprize we hit the road, whether it be

1886
01:40:42,080 --> 01:40:44,479
Speaker 1: bus tours or launching a fund or writing a book,

1887
01:40:44,479 --> 01:40:47,640
Speaker 1: to actually do everything we can to make sure the

1888
01:40:47,680 --> 01:40:49,920
Speaker 1: rest rise, to make sure we kind of level the

1889
01:40:49,920 --> 01:40:56,200
Speaker 1: playing field for entrepreneurs in America. So in business books

1890
01:40:56,960 --> 01:41:00,240
Speaker 1: and in media, the A O L Time and our

1891
01:41:00,320 --> 01:41:05,520
Speaker 1: merger is portrayed is the worst in history of business.

1892
01:41:06,240 --> 01:41:08,679
Speaker 1: To what degreed is that effect? And usually people writing

1893
01:41:08,720 --> 01:41:12,640
Speaker 1: that have no vision, no knowledge of the inside. Is

1894
01:41:12,640 --> 01:41:15,960
Speaker 1: that something that has emotionally hurt you? Is that something

1895
01:41:16,000 --> 01:41:18,040
Speaker 1: on your back or is that something those people just

1896
01:41:18,080 --> 01:41:21,520
Speaker 1: don't understand what's going on. And I've moved on well

1897
01:41:21,600 --> 01:41:24,280
Speaker 1: about that because you don't love the fact that it's

1898
01:41:24,400 --> 01:41:26,160
Speaker 1: it's you. It is the worst merger in history. I

1899
01:41:26,240 --> 01:41:29,599
Speaker 1: understand why it is. It was the largest merger in history,

1900
01:41:29,600 --> 01:41:32,120
Speaker 1: and it was the execution of it was flawed in

1901
01:41:32,160 --> 01:41:33,960
Speaker 1: the way as I mentioned, So I think it's fair

1902
01:41:34,000 --> 01:41:37,760
Speaker 1: to characterize it as that I of course have a

1903
01:41:37,840 --> 01:41:41,120
Speaker 1: slightly different view, maybe more than slightly different view of

1904
01:41:41,160 --> 01:41:44,439
Speaker 1: exactly what happened and why it happened. UH, and also

1905
01:41:44,600 --> 01:41:47,800
Speaker 1: have the view of the CEO a O Well, which

1906
01:41:47,880 --> 01:41:49,800
Speaker 1: might be different than the view of the CEO of

1907
01:41:49,880 --> 01:41:53,320
Speaker 1: Time Warner, because for for us and our shareholders in retrospect,

1908
01:41:53,320 --> 01:41:56,000
Speaker 1: turned out to be a good thing to do. But

1909
01:41:56,360 --> 01:41:59,600
Speaker 1: but certainly understand some of the the the dynamic that

1910
01:41:59,720 --> 01:42:01,639
Speaker 1: just in terms of the economics that I just did

1911
01:42:01,720 --> 01:42:04,280
Speaker 1: quickly you know, cover it. When when we did the

1912
01:42:04,600 --> 01:42:07,960
Speaker 1: you know, the merger, as I recall, the numbers were

1913
01:42:08,000 --> 01:42:12,080
Speaker 1: something like the combined company UH would do about forty

1914
01:42:12,160 --> 01:42:16,320
Speaker 1: billion of revenue and ten billion of profits something in

1915
01:42:16,320 --> 01:42:21,960
Speaker 1: those that magnitude. UH and UH A Well contributed about

1916
01:42:21,960 --> 01:42:24,639
Speaker 1: a billion of that ten billion of profit. But able

1917
01:42:24,720 --> 01:42:27,920
Speaker 1: shareholders ended up with fifty of the combined company. So

1918
01:42:28,000 --> 01:42:30,120
Speaker 1: for the able shareholders, it was a way not just

1919
01:42:30,200 --> 01:42:32,559
Speaker 1: to have this what we thought would be this great

1920
01:42:32,600 --> 01:42:36,240
Speaker 1: path to broadband, but also with more diversified mixt of businesses,

1921
01:42:36,280 --> 01:42:39,320
Speaker 1: and we concluded the better for the able shareholders instead

1922
01:42:39,320 --> 01:42:44,360
Speaker 1: of owning a well of this much larger, much much

1923
01:42:44,400 --> 01:42:47,840
Speaker 1: more profitable, much more diversified company. I get it that

1924
01:42:47,920 --> 01:42:51,240
Speaker 1: the people on the Time Warner side, you know, in retrospect,

1925
01:42:51,280 --> 01:42:53,479
Speaker 1: did not view it the same way. I understand why

1926
01:42:53,800 --> 01:42:57,439
Speaker 1: people were frustrated and when the stock market crashed after

1927
01:42:57,479 --> 01:42:59,519
Speaker 1: the merger, not just for our company, but from many

1928
01:42:59,520 --> 01:43:02,400
Speaker 1: other company's. Obviously a lot of people got hurt by that.

1929
01:43:02,479 --> 01:43:05,240
Speaker 1: I also understand that. But but do bring the lens

1930
01:43:05,320 --> 01:43:08,360
Speaker 1: of of you know what I was charged with doing

1931
01:43:08,400 --> 01:43:13,440
Speaker 1: a CEO? H Well, okay, Time Warner was ultimately destroyed

1932
01:43:13,479 --> 01:43:17,519
Speaker 1: as a company, broken up, pieces sold off. Presently, David

1933
01:43:17,680 --> 01:43:22,920
Speaker 1: Zaslav runs has all the content with Discovery with an

1934
01:43:22,920 --> 01:43:26,320
Speaker 1: amazing amount of debt, and keeps cutting costs and programs.

1935
01:43:27,080 --> 01:43:31,720
Speaker 1: Rupert Murdoch sold the Fox other than the channel and

1936
01:43:31,800 --> 01:43:35,600
Speaker 1: the uh TV stations, I believe, sold all the library

1937
01:43:35,640 --> 01:43:40,639
Speaker 1: and the production of Fox to Disney. What should these

1938
01:43:40,680 --> 01:43:44,080
Speaker 1: people be doing and what do you view the future

1939
01:43:44,160 --> 01:43:48,760
Speaker 1: of this big time entertainment going forward? I don't know.

1940
01:43:48,800 --> 01:43:51,760
Speaker 1: I think others have a more informed view I've been

1941
01:43:51,840 --> 01:43:54,479
Speaker 1: largely out of it for for two decades and focused

1942
01:43:54,479 --> 01:43:58,920
Speaker 1: on this, this next generation of entrepreneurs. I think some

1943
01:43:59,000 --> 01:44:02,120
Speaker 1: of the things that Disney is done recently are consistent

1944
01:44:02,160 --> 01:44:04,599
Speaker 1: with the kind of things I thought all time Warner

1945
01:44:04,600 --> 01:44:06,960
Speaker 1: could do in terms of really driving some of the

1946
01:44:07,080 --> 01:44:09,559
Speaker 1: streaming doesn't think we have done with Disney Plus in

1947
01:44:09,600 --> 01:44:14,160
Speaker 1: particular is really quite impressive and uh and and because

1948
01:44:14,200 --> 01:44:17,160
Speaker 1: they really got the whole company behind that initiative. And

1949
01:44:17,160 --> 01:44:20,120
Speaker 1: and so I think when companies really get organized and

1950
01:44:20,280 --> 01:44:24,400
Speaker 1: have strategic priorities and need strategic imperatives, and Disney basically said,

1951
01:44:24,439 --> 01:44:27,439
Speaker 1: we now recognize the future is is streaming. We need

1952
01:44:27,479 --> 01:44:30,000
Speaker 1: to control our destiny. We need to have more direct

1953
01:44:30,000 --> 01:44:32,439
Speaker 1: control of our customer and not just rely on Netflix

1954
01:44:32,520 --> 01:44:35,680
Speaker 1: or others is sort of intermediaries. They put kind of

1955
01:44:35,720 --> 01:44:38,639
Speaker 1: everything behind that, and that ultimately led to the success.

1956
01:44:38,680 --> 01:44:41,280
Speaker 1: I think that's hard for big companies to do, but

1957
01:44:41,400 --> 01:44:43,000
Speaker 1: that's what they need to do. One of the reasons

1958
01:44:43,040 --> 01:44:47,200
Speaker 1: I'm so excited about backing entrepreneurs across a variety of

1959
01:44:47,200 --> 01:44:50,080
Speaker 1: sectors is having lived that. I kind of know how

1960
01:44:50,120 --> 01:44:53,840
Speaker 1: the big companies, the big companies in the industries that

1961
01:44:53,920 --> 01:44:56,400
Speaker 1: are up for up for grabs. Now outside of the

1962
01:44:57,040 --> 01:45:00,559
Speaker 1: entertainment business, music business, that publishing businesses, that the digital

1963
01:45:00,600 --> 01:45:03,760
Speaker 1: businesses that were associated with Ale and Time Warner, but

1964
01:45:03,880 --> 01:45:05,680
Speaker 1: some of the things we've talked about before, like a

1965
01:45:05,680 --> 01:45:10,080
Speaker 1: healthcare industry or or other other industries, I understand kind

1966
01:45:10,120 --> 01:45:12,200
Speaker 1: of the plays that the big companies are going to run.

1967
01:45:12,280 --> 01:45:16,200
Speaker 1: And those plays are even clear when the economy is tougher,

1968
01:45:16,280 --> 01:45:21,519
Speaker 1: the markets are tougher, inflation is rising, what's gonna likely happen.

1969
01:45:21,560 --> 01:45:24,320
Speaker 1: Many of those companies will pull back on their long

1970
01:45:24,479 --> 01:45:27,880
Speaker 1: term innovation initiatives because they cost a lot of money

1971
01:45:27,880 --> 01:45:30,880
Speaker 1: and they have an uncertain future, which actually creas even

1972
01:45:31,000 --> 01:45:33,519
Speaker 1: more of an opening for the entrepreneurs. They're trying to

1973
01:45:33,600 --> 01:45:37,600
Speaker 1: challenge those incumbents and and bring on new ideas. And so,

1974
01:45:37,720 --> 01:45:41,120
Speaker 1: having lived through that watching little companies that were just

1975
01:45:41,360 --> 01:45:44,559
Speaker 1: around the fringes, when when we did the deal with

1976
01:45:44,680 --> 01:45:47,200
Speaker 1: the Able and Time Warner, I stepped aside companies like

1977
01:45:47,720 --> 01:45:50,040
Speaker 1: Google and Amazon. We actually had a deal with Google

1978
01:45:50,080 --> 01:45:52,320
Speaker 1: early on where we were able at five percent of

1979
01:45:52,320 --> 01:45:54,599
Speaker 1: the equity and Google because they wanted to help us

1980
01:45:54,800 --> 01:45:58,080
Speaker 1: use their search engine for our audience. You know, those

1981
01:45:58,120 --> 01:46:00,720
Speaker 1: companies have risen over the last in a year as well,

1982
01:46:01,000 --> 01:46:03,720
Speaker 1: uh well has has been in decline, and now are

1983
01:46:03,760 --> 01:46:07,200
Speaker 1: these new powerhouses. That's going to happen in industries all

1984
01:46:07,240 --> 01:46:10,639
Speaker 1: across the economy, and it's going to happen in cities

1985
01:46:10,680 --> 01:46:13,559
Speaker 1: all across you know, the country. And so that's really

1986
01:46:13,560 --> 01:46:15,920
Speaker 1: why the sort of some of the work I'm doing

1987
01:46:15,960 --> 01:46:19,280
Speaker 1: now around rise the rest and backing these entrepreneurs and

1988
01:46:19,320 --> 01:46:22,840
Speaker 1: supporting these cities and partly informed by that that experience

1989
01:46:22,880 --> 01:46:25,800
Speaker 1: and a belief that most of the innovation will come

1990
01:46:25,880 --> 01:46:29,320
Speaker 1: from uh, these these entrepreneurs with with with new ideas,

1991
01:46:29,360 --> 01:46:32,479
Speaker 1: new business models, new perspectives that can move more quickly

1992
01:46:32,960 --> 01:46:37,160
Speaker 1: and and uh try things in a more kind of

1993
01:46:37,439 --> 01:46:41,599
Speaker 1: agile kind of way than big companies that big companies generally,

1994
01:46:42,080 --> 01:46:46,320
Speaker 1: you know, play defense when young entrepreneur companies are are

1995
01:46:46,320 --> 01:46:49,720
Speaker 1: playing offense. You know, the big companies generally are are

1996
01:46:49,880 --> 01:46:53,200
Speaker 1: are just more short term oriented. You know, younger companies

1997
01:46:53,400 --> 01:46:55,400
Speaker 1: are kind of take the long term view. So I

1998
01:46:55,400 --> 01:46:59,880
Speaker 1: think it's very exciting time for innovation entrepreneurship in the country,

1999
01:47:00,040 --> 01:47:02,879
Speaker 1: and it's going to impact every aspect of our lives.

2000
01:47:03,080 --> 01:47:04,880
Speaker 1: You know, how we learn, how we eat, how do

2001
01:47:04,960 --> 01:47:07,040
Speaker 1: we stay healthy, how do we move around, how do

2002
01:47:07,120 --> 01:47:10,439
Speaker 1: we invest, etcetera. Uh, And you know, a lot of

2003
01:47:10,439 --> 01:47:12,920
Speaker 1: that innovation is going to come from this next generation

2004
01:47:13,520 --> 01:47:15,559
Speaker 1: of entrepreneurs and a lot of that innovation is going

2005
01:47:15,640 --> 01:47:18,719
Speaker 1: to happen and these dozens of rides the rest cities

2006
01:47:18,840 --> 01:47:21,080
Speaker 1: I write about in the book, and you know, Silicon

2007
01:47:21,160 --> 01:47:23,840
Speaker 1: Valley will still be strong, will still be the most

2008
01:47:23,880 --> 01:47:27,160
Speaker 1: innovative startup hub in the country, indeed probably in the world.

2009
01:47:27,920 --> 01:47:30,080
Speaker 1: But we hit peaks Anilicon Valley a few years ago,

2010
01:47:30,320 --> 01:47:33,240
Speaker 1: and the rise of the rest is accelerating. The pandemic

2011
01:47:33,280 --> 01:47:36,080
Speaker 1: has been a tipping point, and so I think people

2012
01:47:36,080 --> 01:47:39,720
Speaker 1: are should pay more attention to the people and places

2013
01:47:39,760 --> 01:47:44,160
Speaker 1: that have generally been left left out of the innovation discussion.

2014
01:47:44,560 --> 01:47:46,519
Speaker 1: I think that's where the action as, that's where the

2015
01:47:46,520 --> 01:47:50,600
Speaker 1: puck is going. Okay, so you spoke in both the

2016
01:47:50,600 --> 01:47:54,280
Speaker 1: book and earlier about three waves. Could briefly, could you

2017
01:47:54,320 --> 01:47:57,479
Speaker 1: delineate the first and second wave and expand upon the

2018
01:47:57,560 --> 01:48:01,400
Speaker 1: third wave where we are now? Well, the first wave

2019
01:48:01,439 --> 01:48:02,880
Speaker 1: of the Internet was goes back to some of the the

2020
01:48:02,920 --> 01:48:05,200
Speaker 1: things we talked about before with companies like A Well,

2021
01:48:05,240 --> 01:48:07,439
Speaker 1: but obviously there were many others. It was taking it

2022
01:48:07,520 --> 01:48:10,719
Speaker 1: what was just an idea and turning into a reality,

2023
01:48:10,800 --> 01:48:13,960
Speaker 1: building the automaps, building the servers, building the content, and

2024
01:48:13,960 --> 01:48:16,920
Speaker 1: other reasons that people should get online. Uh, And so

2025
01:48:17,000 --> 01:48:19,960
Speaker 1: that really was the eighties and nineties, and and you

2026
01:48:20,000 --> 01:48:23,080
Speaker 1: know that was really you know when the Internet when

2027
01:48:23,280 --> 01:48:26,760
Speaker 1: exactly what you said before sort of arrived. And you know,

2028
01:48:26,760 --> 01:48:29,720
Speaker 1: it took ten, fifteen, twenty years for you before it

2029
01:48:29,760 --> 01:48:33,400
Speaker 1: really kind of arrived, but eventually it did. That then

2030
01:48:33,479 --> 01:48:35,880
Speaker 1: set the stage for the second wave of the Internet.

2031
01:48:35,960 --> 01:48:38,360
Speaker 1: And because at that point the Internet was built and

2032
01:48:38,400 --> 01:48:41,280
Speaker 1: everybody was connected, you didn't have to focus so much

2033
01:48:41,320 --> 01:48:44,559
Speaker 1: on the building phase or the infrastructure phase. You could

2034
01:48:44,560 --> 01:48:47,280
Speaker 1: focus essentially focus on building on top of the Internet.

2035
01:48:47,720 --> 01:48:50,519
Speaker 1: And it's particularly building software and apps on top of

2036
01:48:50,560 --> 01:48:53,160
Speaker 1: the Internet. And a lot of the big innovations in

2037
01:48:53,200 --> 01:48:56,320
Speaker 1: the last couple of decades have basically been that you know, apps,

2038
01:48:56,479 --> 01:48:59,400
Speaker 1: whether it be you know, Facebook or Twitter or Google

2039
01:48:59,439 --> 01:49:02,040
Speaker 1: or other things. It's basically software writing on top of

2040
01:49:02,040 --> 01:49:04,960
Speaker 1: the Internet. And that's been super important obviously created some

2041
01:49:05,120 --> 01:49:08,880
Speaker 1: super valuable companies. The third wave of the Internet, which

2042
01:49:08,920 --> 01:49:11,280
Speaker 1: is the phase we're now in, is and we talked

2043
01:49:11,280 --> 01:49:12,720
Speaker 1: about some of this before is sort of when the

2044
01:49:12,720 --> 01:49:15,479
Speaker 1: Internet meets the real world, and that's when it really is,

2045
01:49:15,880 --> 01:49:18,800
Speaker 1: you know, disrupting some of the big industries like healthcare

2046
01:49:18,840 --> 01:49:21,479
Speaker 1: and the important aspects of our lives. And that's going

2047
01:49:21,560 --> 01:49:25,200
Speaker 1: to require, I believe, a different entrepreneurial playbook. It's not

2048
01:49:25,280 --> 01:49:28,000
Speaker 1: just about the software, not just about the apps, not

2049
01:49:28,120 --> 01:49:30,400
Speaker 1: just about trying to get the idea spread you know,

2050
01:49:30,520 --> 01:49:32,760
Speaker 1: you know, kind of you know, viral e and then

2051
01:49:32,760 --> 01:49:35,479
Speaker 1: figuring out ways to monetize it. It's going to require

2052
01:49:35,600 --> 01:49:40,400
Speaker 1: more systems level change to really change sectors like like healthcare,

2053
01:49:40,400 --> 01:49:45,040
Speaker 1: So partnerships will become more important, policy will become more important.

2054
01:49:45,080 --> 01:49:48,120
Speaker 1: These tend to be regulated sectors and entrepreneurs don't like

2055
01:49:48,160 --> 01:49:50,320
Speaker 1: dealing with regular but the reality they have to if

2056
01:49:50,320 --> 01:49:53,400
Speaker 1: they're going to innovate in this in this third wave. Uh.

2057
01:49:53,439 --> 01:49:55,280
Speaker 1: And it's also going to play to the rise of

2058
01:49:55,360 --> 01:49:58,519
Speaker 1: rest in place. It's gonna advantage the cities that have

2059
01:49:58,680 --> 01:50:01,599
Speaker 1: some of the domain expertise, send credibility, and in some

2060
01:50:01,680 --> 01:50:03,599
Speaker 1: of these sectors that are up for grabs. So I

2061
01:50:03,600 --> 01:50:06,720
Speaker 1: think even though the first wave was certainly exciting and

2062
01:50:07,000 --> 01:50:10,040
Speaker 1: taking the Internet from being an idea to being a reality,

2063
01:50:10,520 --> 01:50:12,960
Speaker 1: and the second wave also was very exciting because all

2064
01:50:13,000 --> 01:50:15,000
Speaker 1: the things that we've had been built on top of

2065
01:50:15,000 --> 01:50:17,760
Speaker 1: the Internet that we're particularly doing the pandemic, we're able

2066
01:50:17,800 --> 01:50:20,720
Speaker 1: to take advantage of in ways that seemed inconceivable just

2067
01:50:21,120 --> 01:50:24,000
Speaker 1: twenty years ago. I think the third wave, when it

2068
01:50:24,080 --> 01:50:26,719
Speaker 1: really is, you know, the Internet meeting the real world,

2069
01:50:26,800 --> 01:50:29,920
Speaker 1: is where the most interesting and most successful and most

2070
01:50:29,960 --> 01:50:33,000
Speaker 1: valuable companies will will be created, and it will have

2071
01:50:33,439 --> 01:50:38,560
Speaker 1: a very uh substantial impact in terms of of America's

2072
01:50:38,640 --> 01:50:42,080
Speaker 1: leadership in innovation entrepreneurship. And I hope, which is why

2073
01:50:42,160 --> 01:50:44,160
Speaker 1: we're working so hard on the Rise of Rest. I

2074
01:50:44,160 --> 01:50:47,640
Speaker 1: hope it will be a more inclusive approach to innovation

2075
01:50:47,880 --> 01:50:52,240
Speaker 1: entrepreneurship that does include more people, does include more places

2076
01:50:52,280 --> 01:50:54,960
Speaker 1: they are. More people can therefore be optimistic about the

2077
01:50:55,000 --> 01:50:58,000
Speaker 1: future as opposed to anxious about the future. We can

2078
01:50:58,080 --> 01:51:01,160
Speaker 1: maximize the shots on Goald max My is the ideas

2079
01:51:01,160 --> 01:51:04,519
Speaker 1: we try by backing more more entrepreneurs and in more

2080
01:51:04,560 --> 01:51:07,519
Speaker 1: cities around the country, and hopefully people reading the Rise

2081
01:51:07,560 --> 01:51:11,120
Speaker 1: of Rest book will see why I'm so enthusiastic about

2082
01:51:11,120 --> 01:51:13,720
Speaker 1: this and so optimistic about it. It's it's something that

2083
01:51:13,760 --> 01:51:17,719
Speaker 1: I've had the privilege of having a front row seat

2084
01:51:17,760 --> 01:51:21,120
Speaker 1: literally a bus in some cases over the last decade

2085
01:51:21,240 --> 01:51:24,559
Speaker 1: as he developed. And I'm excited about the rise of rest.

2086
01:51:24,680 --> 01:51:27,360
Speaker 1: I was in that those early days of the Internet

2087
01:51:27,360 --> 01:51:30,519
Speaker 1: when it I believe in the idea even when others didn't.

2088
01:51:31,400 --> 01:51:34,120
Speaker 1: To me, the rise of rest is sort of deja

2089
01:51:34,200 --> 01:51:37,760
Speaker 1: vu all over again. And sectors other than healthcare that

2090
01:51:37,840 --> 01:51:41,360
Speaker 1: are right for integration with the Internet or to be disrupted.

2091
01:51:42,400 --> 01:51:44,320
Speaker 1: I mention them basically, if you look at the most

2092
01:51:44,360 --> 01:51:47,120
Speaker 1: important aspects of your lives, they've changed a little bit,

2093
01:51:47,400 --> 01:51:50,880
Speaker 1: uh in in the last ten thirty years. They'll change

2094
01:51:50,880 --> 01:51:54,000
Speaker 1: a lot more in the next ten years. And that's

2095
01:51:54,040 --> 01:52:00,000
Speaker 1: this acceleration of digital technology, acceleration of the internet. Uh.

2096
01:52:00,000 --> 01:52:02,400
Speaker 1: And you know healthcare, for examples one six of the economy,

2097
01:52:03,080 --> 01:52:04,840
Speaker 1: it doesn't work all that well, you know, and there

2098
01:52:04,880 --> 01:52:07,800
Speaker 1: are ways to provide better care and better outcomes, greater

2099
01:52:07,840 --> 01:52:11,320
Speaker 1: convenience and lower costs that new uh. You know, people

2100
01:52:11,360 --> 01:52:13,680
Speaker 1: with new ideas. Many of those will come from young

2101
01:52:13,720 --> 01:52:17,519
Speaker 1: companies led by entrepreneurs, are gonna kind of you lead

2102
01:52:17,560 --> 01:52:20,840
Speaker 1: the charge on where you're reimagining our food systems, which

2103
01:52:20,880 --> 01:52:25,080
Speaker 1: generally are too industrial and not particularly healthy and companies

2104
01:52:25,120 --> 01:52:27,320
Speaker 1: that that were back there, like like a Sweet Green

2105
01:52:27,439 --> 01:52:30,760
Speaker 1: or and many others are really leading the charge. There's

2106
01:52:30,760 --> 01:52:34,360
Speaker 1: a lot of things happening around reimagining education, both the

2107
01:52:34,479 --> 01:52:36,800
Speaker 1: K twelve education as well as you know kind of

2108
01:52:36,800 --> 01:52:41,200
Speaker 1: colleges and universities, you know, lifelong learning. Digital technology will

2109
01:52:41,560 --> 01:52:43,880
Speaker 1: play a key role, you know kind of there. So

2110
01:52:43,920 --> 01:52:47,280
Speaker 1: it really is, you know, just all across the you know,

2111
01:52:47,320 --> 01:52:50,680
Speaker 1: the landscape in terms of really big industries that are

2112
01:52:50,720 --> 01:52:53,479
Speaker 1: likely to change a lot, and really important parts of

2113
01:52:53,479 --> 01:52:55,840
Speaker 1: our lives that are likely to change a lot. Yeah.

2114
01:52:55,840 --> 01:52:57,840
Speaker 1: That what I would encourage people to do, which again

2115
01:52:57,880 --> 01:52:59,880
Speaker 1: is probably reason I wrote the book, is don't you

2116
01:53:00,280 --> 01:53:03,440
Speaker 1: be a spectator watching this. If you have a particular

2117
01:53:03,479 --> 01:53:07,000
Speaker 1: passion or you have a particular insight, jump in, do

2118
01:53:07,120 --> 01:53:09,920
Speaker 1: something about it. And the great thing about what's happening

2119
01:53:09,960 --> 01:53:11,920
Speaker 1: now with the Rise to rest and goes back to

2120
01:53:11,960 --> 01:53:14,800
Speaker 1: what we said before, four hundred new venture firms in

2121
01:53:14,840 --> 01:53:17,519
Speaker 1: these rightsrous cities that didn't exist ten years ago. There

2122
01:53:17,520 --> 01:53:21,200
Speaker 1: are now existing backing companies in in you know, dozens

2123
01:53:21,200 --> 01:53:23,760
Speaker 1: and dozens and dozens and dozens of American cities that

2124
01:53:23,880 --> 01:53:27,240
Speaker 1: historically didn't have venture capital. You can now do that anywhere.

2125
01:53:27,360 --> 01:53:30,680
Speaker 1: You shouldn't feel like you're in Ohio or Wisconsin or

2126
01:53:30,680 --> 01:53:34,479
Speaker 1: Iowa or Tennessee or something. And so therefore you don't

2127
01:53:34,520 --> 01:53:37,920
Speaker 1: have the ability to participate in the start up sector,

2128
01:53:38,000 --> 01:53:40,840
Speaker 1: participate in the innovation economy. You're left out because you're

2129
01:53:40,840 --> 01:53:43,920
Speaker 1: not in Silicon Valley or some other players. No, you

2130
01:53:44,240 --> 01:53:46,800
Speaker 1: can be in the game. Uh, and you can do

2131
01:53:46,840 --> 01:53:49,880
Speaker 1: it now. Uh. You just have to get started, and

2132
01:53:49,920 --> 01:53:52,160
Speaker 1: you just have to say instead of just looking at

2133
01:53:52,160 --> 01:53:54,280
Speaker 1: the problem and wondering if somebody else is going to

2134
01:53:54,360 --> 01:53:56,640
Speaker 1: solve it, I'm gonna solve it. I'm going to do

2135
01:53:56,720 --> 01:53:59,200
Speaker 1: that by starting a company. I'm gonna do it now,

2136
01:53:59,280 --> 01:54:02,160
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna do it from wherever I am. Okay,

2137
01:54:02,479 --> 01:54:05,720
Speaker 1: just a couple more things then we'll go. Big point

2138
01:54:05,760 --> 01:54:09,400
Speaker 1: in the book is about immigration. The HB one visas.

2139
01:54:09,479 --> 01:54:12,880
Speaker 1: Certainly has been stories in the news about a lot

2140
01:54:12,920 --> 01:54:14,880
Speaker 1: of people foreign countries who would have stayed in the

2141
01:54:14,960 --> 01:54:18,640
Speaker 1: United States ended up going back greatly to India and

2142
01:54:18,680 --> 01:54:21,519
Speaker 1: starting the businesses there. Are we going to see a

2143
01:54:21,640 --> 01:54:25,679
Speaker 1: change in this what's going on? Yeah? We we we

2144
01:54:25,680 --> 01:54:27,559
Speaker 1: we must see it changes. I've been working on as

2145
01:54:27,600 --> 01:54:31,200
Speaker 1: sadly unsuccessfully for the last decade. Actually testified the Senate

2146
01:54:31,200 --> 01:54:34,960
Speaker 1: about nine years ago around immigration reform. And the reason

2147
01:54:35,120 --> 01:54:38,040
Speaker 1: is because the data is pretty clear that immigrants have

2148
01:54:38,080 --> 01:54:41,480
Speaker 1: played a central role in driving the American economy. About

2149
01:54:41,960 --> 01:54:46,000
Speaker 1: of the successful companies have been immigrants or children of immigrants,

2150
01:54:46,000 --> 01:54:48,680
Speaker 1: and part of what's made America so so, you know,

2151
01:54:48,760 --> 01:54:51,400
Speaker 1: so compelling as this pioneering spirit, this is being a

2152
01:54:51,440 --> 01:54:53,520
Speaker 1: magnet from talent all around the world wants to be

2153
01:54:53,600 --> 01:54:55,920
Speaker 1: part of the American story, wants to build the next

2154
01:54:55,960 --> 01:54:58,000
Speaker 1: chapter of the American story. But we have made it

2155
01:54:58,040 --> 01:55:00,720
Speaker 1: more difficult for people to come. We have made it

2156
01:55:00,800 --> 01:55:03,600
Speaker 1: more difficult for people who are here, perhaps at a university,

2157
01:55:03,640 --> 01:55:06,560
Speaker 1: to stay. And as a result, we were losing some

2158
01:55:06,640 --> 01:55:09,879
Speaker 1: of that that that talent ward to other other countries.

2159
01:55:09,920 --> 01:55:11,760
Speaker 1: And we need to we need to reverse it. It

2160
01:55:11,800 --> 01:55:16,240
Speaker 1: almost happened this past Sumber. Some legislation past Congress, any

2161
01:55:16,240 --> 01:55:18,760
Speaker 1: one bill called the Chips and Science Act, had some

2162
01:55:18,800 --> 01:55:22,160
Speaker 1: good things in and around you're reshoring some conductors and

2163
01:55:23,000 --> 01:55:25,680
Speaker 1: funding the development of war these regional hubs, you know,

2164
01:55:25,880 --> 01:55:28,080
Speaker 1: ties in with our rise of rest of work. But

2165
01:55:28,200 --> 01:55:30,880
Speaker 1: also there was a startup VISA provision that was at

2166
01:55:30,920 --> 01:55:33,480
Speaker 1: one point part of that when the final bill got done,

2167
01:55:33,480 --> 01:55:36,400
Speaker 1: it got kicked out, which is unfortunate. If if we

2168
01:55:36,480 --> 01:55:39,440
Speaker 1: fast forward, you know, a number of years in America

2169
01:55:39,560 --> 01:55:42,640
Speaker 1: ceases to be the leader of the pack, ceases to

2170
01:55:42,680 --> 01:55:44,760
Speaker 1: be the leading and common in the world, ceases to

2171
01:55:44,800 --> 01:55:47,800
Speaker 1: be the most innovative entreprene nation in the world. Uh,

2172
01:55:47,800 --> 01:55:50,320
Speaker 1: it's like very likely will be we got this wrong.

2173
01:55:50,400 --> 01:55:54,280
Speaker 1: We lost that that edge we had globally as this

2174
01:55:54,440 --> 01:55:57,560
Speaker 1: as this as magnet. So I'll continue to do whatever

2175
01:55:57,600 --> 01:56:01,040
Speaker 1: I can to try to, you know, support uh kind

2176
01:56:01,080 --> 01:56:04,640
Speaker 1: of reform around immigrations, so we can when this when

2177
01:56:04,640 --> 01:56:07,360
Speaker 1: this battle for particularly around some of the talent that

2178
01:56:07,720 --> 01:56:10,200
Speaker 1: you know likely could be the entrepreneurs of the future,

2179
01:56:10,240 --> 01:56:13,200
Speaker 1: building some of the companies of future and creating lots

2180
01:56:13,200 --> 01:56:17,560
Speaker 1: of jobs for for for Americans in the process. And

2181
01:56:17,680 --> 01:56:21,320
Speaker 1: we've covered a lot of the viewpoint of the entrepreneur

2182
01:56:21,440 --> 01:56:23,840
Speaker 1: that location is not that important now you can do

2183
01:56:23,880 --> 01:56:29,720
Speaker 1: it anywhere. But in conclusion, any other advice for entrepreneurs, Well,

2184
01:56:29,720 --> 01:56:34,440
Speaker 1: first of all, I recognize, uh that entrepreneurs are choosing

2185
01:56:34,640 --> 01:56:37,360
Speaker 1: a path that most people think as a risky path,

2186
01:56:38,000 --> 01:56:42,920
Speaker 1: and so it requires a certain boldness, a certain fearlessness

2187
01:56:42,920 --> 01:56:45,640
Speaker 1: to take that path. I think we should understand that

2188
01:56:45,840 --> 01:56:50,160
Speaker 1: and and respect that. We also should recognize that sometimes

2189
01:56:50,280 --> 01:56:53,400
Speaker 1: people who try things stumble the first time. You know,

2190
01:56:53,520 --> 01:56:56,840
Speaker 1: it is the first yet that doesn't work, uh, you know,

2191
01:56:57,280 --> 01:56:59,720
Speaker 1: but you kind of keep having to take shots. And

2192
01:57:00,200 --> 01:57:02,400
Speaker 1: Ruth was the home run king. He had more home

2193
01:57:02,480 --> 01:57:04,920
Speaker 1: runs anybody else. Guess what. He also was a strikeout king.

2194
01:57:05,040 --> 01:57:07,360
Speaker 1: He had more strikeouts than ab Els. If you're swinging

2195
01:57:07,400 --> 01:57:09,879
Speaker 1: for the fences, you're not gonna always get it. Sometimes

2196
01:57:09,880 --> 01:57:12,360
Speaker 1: you'll you'll end up with a strikeout. We also need

2197
01:57:12,400 --> 01:57:15,520
Speaker 1: to understand that. So if an entrepreneur try something and

2198
01:57:15,560 --> 01:57:18,600
Speaker 1: it doesn't work, that doesn't mean they're a failure. That

2199
01:57:18,720 --> 01:57:22,280
Speaker 1: just means that particular idea is a failure. So just

2200
01:57:22,320 --> 01:57:25,680
Speaker 1: getting more people to realize that the importance of it. Uh.

2201
01:57:25,720 --> 01:57:27,520
Speaker 1: And even though if you go back to what we

2202
01:57:27,600 --> 01:57:31,080
Speaker 1: were talking about just a bit ago, that America itself

2203
01:57:31,680 --> 01:57:35,520
Speaker 1: was a startup two fifty years ago, America was an idea.

2204
01:57:36,120 --> 01:57:40,360
Speaker 1: Most people around the world didn't think America would succeed,

2205
01:57:40,520 --> 01:57:44,760
Speaker 1: just as most people don't think startups will succeed. There's

2206
01:57:44,760 --> 01:57:47,240
Speaker 1: a lot of skepticism in the first couple of decades

2207
01:57:47,320 --> 01:57:52,200
Speaker 1: of that American story. Somehow we powered through, somehow we survived,

2208
01:57:52,200 --> 01:57:54,800
Speaker 1: and then we thrived and we went from this fledgling,

2209
01:57:55,000 --> 01:57:58,160
Speaker 1: you know, almost hit the wall startup nation to the

2210
01:57:58,240 --> 01:58:00,280
Speaker 1: leader of the free world. And so how do we

2211
01:58:00,400 --> 01:58:05,040
Speaker 1: keep leading? We can't do that unless we're leading around innovation.

2212
01:58:05,160 --> 01:58:08,160
Speaker 1: We're leaning in the future, we're trying new things, we're

2213
01:58:08,200 --> 01:58:11,000
Speaker 1: taking risk, and we need to celebrate that as a

2214
01:58:11,040 --> 01:58:15,560
Speaker 1: core part of the American story and celebrate the entrepreneurs

2215
01:58:15,640 --> 01:58:18,320
Speaker 1: out there. Perhaps I'm listening to this right now that

2216
01:58:18,400 --> 01:58:20,520
Speaker 1: are you know, taking that shot? Are the ones we're

2217
01:58:20,600 --> 01:58:23,480
Speaker 1: thinking about taking the shot? And maybe now is the

2218
01:58:23,480 --> 01:58:25,880
Speaker 1: time they'll step in into the game. So that again,

2219
01:58:25,960 --> 01:58:28,960
Speaker 1: that's my you know, my real passion here is making

2220
01:58:28,960 --> 01:58:32,000
Speaker 1: sure I can do what I can to make sure

2221
01:58:32,040 --> 01:58:35,000
Speaker 1: America continues to lead. America continues to be a magnet

2222
01:58:35,040 --> 01:58:38,560
Speaker 1: for talent, America continues to be this innovative, pioneering nation.

2223
01:58:39,040 --> 01:58:41,080
Speaker 1: But we do it in a more inclusive way that

2224
01:58:41,160 --> 01:58:43,960
Speaker 1: we do bring along more people, we do bring along

2225
01:58:44,240 --> 01:58:47,320
Speaker 1: more places, and we can inspire the next generation to

2226
01:58:47,440 --> 01:58:50,640
Speaker 1: start here, build here, scale here, create jobs here, drive

2227
01:58:50,720 --> 01:58:54,040
Speaker 1: economic growth here. So for those entrepreneurs out there, or

2228
01:58:54,080 --> 01:58:58,160
Speaker 1: those potential entrepreneurs out there. Thank you for taking the

2229
01:58:58,280 --> 01:59:01,880
Speaker 1: risk you're taking. Thank you for taking a shot. Keep

2230
01:59:01,960 --> 01:59:05,600
Speaker 1: fighting and hopefully ultimately you'll you'll be successful in that

2231
01:59:05,640 --> 01:59:08,520
Speaker 1: one and then strengthen your community, the community you care

2232
01:59:08,560 --> 01:59:11,800
Speaker 1: about by creating more jobs and opportunity in those communities,

2233
01:59:11,840 --> 01:59:16,960
Speaker 1: and collectively that can also strengthen our nation. Yeah, that's

2234
01:59:17,040 --> 01:59:19,240
Speaker 1: what I've been telling people for years now. There is

2235
01:59:19,280 --> 01:59:23,360
Speaker 1: no flyover country all in America. Obviously their pockets that

2236
01:59:23,360 --> 01:59:27,000
Speaker 1: don't have broadband, but essentially all of America has broadband.

2237
01:59:27,480 --> 01:59:32,680
Speaker 1: Everybody has hundreds of channels. Everybody is hip, everybody is informed.

2238
01:59:32,720 --> 01:59:35,400
Speaker 1: It's not like you're talking earlier. It takes a week

2239
01:59:35,440 --> 01:59:39,040
Speaker 1: to get the TV show in Hawaii. But I must

2240
01:59:39,080 --> 01:59:42,240
Speaker 1: admit your book really fleshes it out. It really talks

2241
01:59:42,280 --> 01:59:46,160
Speaker 1: about the different locations and what is happening, and it's

2242
01:59:46,280 --> 01:59:51,000
Speaker 1: eye opening, especially in an era where living costs may

2243
01:59:51,000 --> 01:59:57,600
Speaker 1: be much cheaper in between Boston, New York and Silicon Valley, California.

2244
01:59:57,640 --> 02:00:00,080
Speaker 1: In any event, Steve, I want to thank you so

2245
02:00:00,160 --> 02:00:02,640
Speaker 1: much for taking the time talking about your history and

2246
02:00:02,720 --> 02:00:07,040
Speaker 1: explaining your investment strategy across the country. So thanks again,

2247
02:00:07,360 --> 02:00:10,600
Speaker 1: Thanks Bob. Great to reconnect. Love your writings, love your podcast,

2248
02:00:10,760 --> 02:00:14,400
Speaker 1: keep it up. Thanks so much. Until next time, this

2249
02:00:14,480 --> 02:00:15,560
Speaker 1: is Bob less sex.