1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: Welcome. You are now listening to the Professional profession. Hey, 2 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,879 Speaker 1: Professional home Girls is the kid of a name from 3 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,599 Speaker 1: the PSD podcast, the only place where you would hear 4 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: interviews from black women an honestly on stories that will 5 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 1: enlighten and expand on taboo topics. Now, if you hear 6 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: someone that sounds familiar, mind the business that pays you child. 7 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: If you like the PhD podcast, please rate, review and 8 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: subscribe on Apple Podcasts. Please five star reviews only hold 9 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: me down, don't hold me up. 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So let's again this 20 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: week's episode. I'm super excited about this week's episode, as 21 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: I am sure a lot of women can relate to 22 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: this topic. My guests will be sharing her story on 23 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: her decision on not wanting to have kids. So to 24 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: my guests, how are you doing well? How are you? 25 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: You know? All is cute. I can't complain, so thank 26 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: you for asking. So what would you say? Are some 27 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: misconceptions of women who don't want kids? Um, that's that's 28 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: a really interesting question. I think in society, for women, 29 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: our womanhood oftentimes is tied to whether or not we 30 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: want children, you know. I think that after we get 31 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: to a certain age and we, you know, are open 32 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: about the fact that we don't want children, you weren't 33 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,519 Speaker 1: seen as a complete woman, you know. Um. I think 34 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: that that's definitely a very common misconception. I think another 35 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 1: misconception is that, oh, you must be putting your career first, 36 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: you know, like, and then people ask what's gonna happen 37 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: when your career ends, because it's not gonna last forever. Like, 38 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people don't realize that. I 39 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: think in society, the default is that you want children, 40 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: and then it's something you opt out of. Like people 41 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: whenever I say I don't want children, they always ask me, 42 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: are you sure you aren't going to change your mind, 43 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: Like this is something I've thought about for a very 44 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: very long time, Like I'm I'm I'm quite sure I'm 45 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: not going to change my mind. Um, I think. Yeah. 46 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: Other misconceptions are just that you know, you're eventually going 47 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: to change your mind, and you know, maybe some women 48 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: who don't want to have children will change their mind, 49 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: and that's okay. You know, it's okay to change your mind. Um. Likewise, 50 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: there are some people who want children who might change 51 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: their minds said they want you know, they don't want children. 52 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: So I think those are a few of the common 53 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: misconceptions about women who don't want children. But what are 54 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: your thoughts on society views on women not wanting kids? Okay, 55 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: I think it's something that needs to change. I think 56 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: there needs to be room for women to not have 57 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: children and feel comfortable expressing that and not constantly be doubted, 58 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: you know, like why is this not a decision that 59 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: I can be trusted to make with my own body, 60 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: you know, Like I've lived in this body, you know, 61 00:03:55,920 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: for twenty nine years, Like I know how to trust myself, 62 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: and I just was that society as the whole could 63 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: trust me to when I say I don't want children. 64 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: You know, I wish that society didn't make me feel 65 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: like I am lesson a woman or that you know, 66 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: when I turned sixty, I'm gonna regret having an empty house, 67 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: you know, if I have, you know, a full social life, 68 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: which I do anticipate changing in the next couple of years, 69 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: is my friends do start thinking about have children, like 70 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 1: having children. Um, Like, I I know that my relationship 71 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: with my friends will change, but I think that as 72 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: long as I'm able to keep some sort of social 73 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: life where maybe find a partner who's on the same 74 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: page as me, Like, there's no reason that you know, 75 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 1: when I come sixty, you know, turned sixty, I should 76 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: be seen as discardable, you know, just because I don't 77 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: have children. So right, So why do you think women 78 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: are not taking seriously when it comes to this, Because, 79 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: like you say, a lot of people think that it's 80 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: just a phase. Are You're gonna change your mind, And 81 00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: it's like, no, I know what I want and I 82 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: know what I'm not gonna do. Mh. I mean, I 83 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 1: think it's because people in society just don't take women 84 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: in general, like seriously, just in general, you know, like, 85 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:15,239 Speaker 1: I literally have written an entire article about this, and 86 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 1: you know, the overwhelming response was really great, and you know, 87 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: women messaged me to say that they felt seen and um, 88 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: but there were men who were just like, you'll change 89 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: your mind. They're like, you know, women like mothers are 90 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: the people who hold like society together and just things 91 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 1: like that. And it's just like, like, why can't you 92 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: just take me in our word. If I say something like, 93 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: you know, I don't like anchovy, people take that seriously. 94 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 1: But if I say I don't want children, people are like, oh, 95 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 1: you should. We think like having children is a major decision. 96 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: It's a lifetime decision. It's not something that ends once 97 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: the child turns eighteen. You know, Like like I'm thirty 98 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: and I'm still very much like dependent on my parents 99 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: into a lot of ways. I'm not going to m 100 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: today nine, but I'm still you know, I'm way past 101 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: eighteen and I'm still dependent on my parents in a 102 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: lot of ways. And you know, when you have a child, 103 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: you have to be prepared to accept that child as 104 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 1: they are, no matter what. If your child, you know, 105 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: comes out with a number of disabilities, you have to 106 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: be prepared for your life to potentially change in a 107 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,280 Speaker 1: way that you have not previously anticipated, you know, And 108 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: it's not just as simple as popping out a child, like, 109 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 1: there are just so many things that come into play. 110 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: You have to you know, arrange to find school for 111 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: that child. Like and as someone who um has various 112 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: mental health issues that i'm I'm I've been diagnosed with, 113 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: I know that that would add another layer to anxiety 114 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 1: with having a child, just constantly worrying about so much. 115 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: I'm sure regular parents do, but I feel like if me, 116 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: it would just be up to level eleven, you know. 117 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: Um So I just I just feel like, yeah, like 118 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: there there's one example bowl where um, I was ending 119 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:06,799 Speaker 1: bed with a friend and her friend and her friends. 120 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: So this person was separated and this guy was separated 121 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: from me by about like two degrees. I did not 122 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: know him at all, but somehow it was mentioned. Because 123 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: I don't go around introducing myself to people like hi, 124 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: I don't want children, like it came up in conversation 125 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: and then suddenly this man made it like his life's 126 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: mission to convince me to have children, And I was like, 127 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: this was this was years ago, so I was maybe 128 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: like what like maybe twenty six or something six and 129 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: he just this the stranger, like just made it his 130 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: life's mission. I don't know if it was his life's 131 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: mission a mission, or if he just I don't know, 132 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: got off on being Devil's advocate. But he was just 133 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: like asking me all these questions like what if your 134 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: partner wants children, that are they still your soul mate? 135 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: And I was like, I guess not. And funnily enough, 136 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: that's something that ended up had a couple of years 137 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: later that that really tested me. But um, but first off, 138 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: how did he know one of your friends told him? No. 139 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: I think it just came up in conversation. I think 140 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: I may be mentioned it, um somehow, I don't. I 141 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: think we may have been talking about kids or something. 142 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: I don't remember exactly what happened, but it just came 143 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: up that I I don't want children. And it's again, 144 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: it's not like a huge part of my life. It's 145 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: not something that I walked around with like a card 146 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: in my pocket that says I don't want children. It's 147 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: not like a huge part of who I am. But 148 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: it happened to come up in conversation and he just 149 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: latched onto it. Um. He just kept trying to come 150 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: up with all these scenarios, like what if your your 151 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: your partner wants a child, and they're just like, you 152 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:41,439 Speaker 1: can just carry it for nine months and I'll take 153 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: care of it. And I'm like, I'm not going to 154 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: go through a pregnancy, which is going to be, you know, 155 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: take a toll on my body, you know, just to 156 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: have a child to then give to my partner. You know, 157 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: I wouldn't want that child to grow up presenting me 158 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: for giving up giving them up, Like that's just just 159 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 1: the scenario as you're asking me, are just ridiculous scenarios. 160 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: And I'm not pushing this big head baby out my right, yes, yes, 161 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: just for someone else, and yeah, just he was asking 162 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: me all these ridiculous questions. And then I remember, you know, 163 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: the more we were talking, I realized this man was 164 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 1: in his mid thirties and living with his parents. So 165 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: I'm like, so what do you even have to offer 166 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: as a father? Your questioning me, and it's like, what 167 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,079 Speaker 1: do you I mean, there's no shame living with your parents, 168 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: but it's like, who are you to be in your 169 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 1: mid thirties you don't even have children? And then for 170 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,319 Speaker 1: you to latch you know, onto my decision as a 171 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: woman to not have a children, and you try to 172 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: convince me as to all the reasons I'm wrong for 173 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: making that choice. You know, it's it's it was. It 174 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: was just a really wild, bizarre experience, just like a 175 00:09:51,559 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: nigga like like sir, sir, Yeah, it was just I 176 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: don't know, it was. It really really bothered me, and 177 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: I like, you know, told my friend after that her 178 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: friend's friend made me deeply uncomfortable throughout the experience. There 179 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: were also just you know, there was some sexual harassment involved, 180 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: but um, I think that he just latched onto that 181 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: because he knew it was something that I stood furman, 182 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: and he just wanted to see me kind of waver 183 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: and the fact that I wasn't wavering in it was 184 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: really bothering him, you know, and that's why he kept 185 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 1: coming up with these, you know, hypotheticals that were just 186 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: more and more bizarres. Tom went on, you know, and 187 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: I don't think that people realize how conversations like this 188 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: can make people feel very uncomfortable. Mm hmmm mm hmmm. Yeah. Yeah, 189 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: Like at one point, I was like near tears. I 190 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: was just like, why am I being made to feel 191 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: bad for our decision. That's personal, that is about my body, 192 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: you know, like it's just and he was just like, 193 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: it's really selfish, you know, to choose not to have 194 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: a child if your partner wants one, And I'm like, 195 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: if my partner was a child and I don't, then 196 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 1: we break up, you know, Like it's it's just as 197 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: selfish to have a child, you know. And I don't 198 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: think that being selfish is inherently bad. But if you're 199 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: going to say that, like choosing not to have a 200 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: child is selfish, yeah, it's selfish. I don't. I don't, 201 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: I have no shaman and men, Yeah, that's selfish. I'm 202 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: putting myself first. But it's also very selfish to think 203 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: that your jeans are worth passing on and that you 204 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 1: can do a good job of raising a human in 205 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,079 Speaker 1: the world that we live in today. I think that's selfish, true, 206 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 1: you know, but again, I don't think selfish is necessarily bad. 207 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 1: But if you're going to say that I'm selfish, you 208 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: you also have to acknowledge that, like having children, it's 209 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: it's selfish too. So do you think this stigma is 210 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: the same for men? No? No, no, no, not at all. 211 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 1: I mean I think also because like men can reproduce 212 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: for longer, you know, like we see celebrity men I 213 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: was having children in their seventies, you know, and I think, 214 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: like I remember I was having a conversation with my 215 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: mom and I was like, you know, maybe I'll think 216 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: about it when I'm like thirty five or something, and 217 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: her job almost dropped, you know, because I think statistically 218 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: one woman, you know, like have pregnancies after thirty five, 219 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: the rate for potential complications for like mother and child 220 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: book skyrocket. And so she was like, like, why would 221 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: you have a child at thirty five, Like, you know, 222 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: like if we're gonna have a child, have a child soon. Um, 223 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: you know, and um, women, I think, especially because menopause 224 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:45,079 Speaker 1: is a thing, like there's definitely pressure to have children 225 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 1: sooner in our lives, whereas men, again, the quality of 226 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: sperm I'm guessing goes down. But you know there's still 227 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,079 Speaker 1: men out here having children in their sixties and their seventies. 228 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: And as we know, like child ruing typically fault on 229 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: the mother anyway, So you know they're gonna have children, 230 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: and it's okay, um, because they're likely not going to 231 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: be the one who's going to be the primary caretaker. 232 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,719 Speaker 1: So I don't think that there's that same pressure for 233 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: men to have children. I mean, they probably do get 234 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: questions like when are you going to have children? And 235 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: when are you you know, going to do all of that, 236 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 1: But I would guess if it's not the same as 237 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,079 Speaker 1: it is for women. Um. Of course I can't speak 238 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 1: to that experience because I haven't live life as a man, 239 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: but I would guess that it isn't the same as 240 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: it is for women. So I'm just curious. Have you 241 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: ever had a pregnancy scare? No, But if you were 242 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 1: to find out that you were pregnant, would you get 243 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: an abortion? Yes? And I've told that to partners every 244 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: partner I've been with. M I've been like, look, if 245 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: i'm having sex with you, just know that if I 246 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: get pregnant, I'm having an abortion. Um. And fortunately they 247 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: all have said yet that's fine with them. In reality, 248 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: if I ever were to end up pregnant, I don't 249 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: know if their reactions would have changed, you know, but 250 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: I've made that very clear with every partner I've ever 251 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: been with, Like, if I get pregnant by you, I 252 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: am having an abortion. So if you're having sex with me, 253 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: you're having sex with me with that knowledge, right, so 254 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: your does on row versus laby and over turn. Well, 255 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: I mean I live in a state where um abortion 256 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: laws are still relatively safe for now, so I feel 257 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: fortunate in that regard, right Yeah, But I definitely feel 258 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: sad and worried. I'm scared for all of the people, 259 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: um of all identities who can get pregnant, um who 260 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: may be forced to you know, carry a pregnancy at 261 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: term that they are not writing to care for. I mean, 262 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: I just I can't I can't imagine. I mean, I 263 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: can't imagine what it's like to have to carry a 264 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: pregnancy you either cannot carry to term for health reasons 265 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: or simply because you don't want to have a child. 266 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: Because again, I think not wanting to be pregnant, not 267 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: wanting a child is enough of a reason to want 268 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: an abortion, you know. I think that one thing a 269 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: lot of people think is that like women are out 270 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: here having abortions because it's fun or because it's like, 271 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: I don't know, like like a trip to the candy store. No, 272 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: an abortion is not fun. It's a medical procedure that 273 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: takes a toll in your body. Some women don't have 274 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: any particular feelings about having an abortion after they have one, 275 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: that's fine. Some women feel relieved. That's fine too. But 276 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: for a lot of women, like it is a psychological 277 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: like it takes a psychological tool to have to go 278 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: through that, you know. Yeah, And I don't think that 279 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: a lot of lawmakers understand that, you know, they think 280 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 1: that women are out there using abortion as birth control, 281 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: like on a regular basis, like every week, are here 282 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: having an abortion. That's not the reality, you know. And 283 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: I fear for people, especially miners, who will potentially have 284 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: to cross state lines in order to obtain abortions and 285 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: all the legalities that that come up, you know with that, 286 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: and it's it's it's a very scary potential world to 287 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: live in. Um And I still don't think a lot 288 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: of people understand the gravity. Again, because this is something 289 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: that just happened. I don't think people realize what's going 290 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: to happen over the last couple of years. That they're 291 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: going to be children born into situations that are far 292 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: less than ideal, who are going to be born to 293 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: parents who are not equipped to take care of them, 294 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: to plods who don't want to you know, take care 295 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: of them too, children who are going to end up 296 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: in the already overloaded foster system. You know, like this, 297 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: there's just no way that this is just going to 298 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: They're going to be people who are going to try 299 00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: to perform self induced abortions that could end up you 300 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: know them, Like, there's just nowhere this is going to 301 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 1: have any sort of good outcome. And I personally look 302 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 1: at the role versus Wade being able turned as a punishment. 303 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: You know, it's punishing women for being sexually active because 304 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: we know that these politicians and their mistresses, they're going 305 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: to find a way for their mistress us to get abortions. 306 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 1: You know, like these men out here are still going 307 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: to continue or at least the straightmen are going to 308 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: continue to out here, you know, to have sex with women. 309 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: Like but it's like I just it just the overturning, 310 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,439 Speaker 1: it just it makes me furious and it makes me 311 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: feel powerless, you know. Um Again, Fortunately, I live in 312 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 1: a state where I you know, if I were to 313 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: meet an abortion, it's a it's a procedure I could 314 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: get easily. And I've had an I d UM in 315 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 1: some form for the past eight years. Um, as soon 316 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:57,719 Speaker 1: as this one, you know, needs to be replaced, I'm 317 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: putting another one in. You know, I haven't gotten my 318 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 1: tooths tired or anything like that because I don't want 319 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 1: such an invasive procedure. Well, you know they're not gonna 320 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: do it anyway because you're not. They're not. Yes, exactly, 321 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say that too, you know, saying how do 322 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: you know your husband? You know what if your husband 323 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: wants to have children or you know, things like that, 324 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: I don't want to have to deal with that. So yeah, 325 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: having my tooths tide is it's not an option anyway. 326 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: But the closest thing to that is an I U D, 327 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: which again I've had for the past eight years and 328 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: I continue I will continue to keep using until menopause 329 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 1: hits me. So you know, I always say when I die, 330 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: I got to come back as a white man, because well, 331 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:46,120 Speaker 1: I'm grateful to be living this life as a black women. Yeah, 332 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: just just the way we It's not because because I mean, 333 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: Roll versus Wade will hit black women the hardest. You know, 334 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 1: it is going to hit black women the hardest. Women, 335 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 1: especially women of color, especially those that live red states 336 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: like it's very unfortunate for you to even wrap your 337 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: mind about. Even if you think that women are just 338 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: being sexually active, you're also not taking consideration of the 339 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 1: amount of rates that happened. I was just gonna say that, like, 340 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 1: there are women who say no to hiving, like in 341 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: a rate anyway, you know. And then if you end 342 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 1: up pregnant as a result of a rape and to 343 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 1: have to carry that not only the trauma of a 344 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 1: pregnancy that you don't want, but like the trauma of 345 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: being raped and hawing to process that, you know, Like, 346 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: I just I just can't I can't imagine. I'm telling 347 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: you these white men child, I didn't know what that 348 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 1: feels like to be that audacious, to have that type 349 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 1: of balls, because it's crazy to me. But also, you know, 350 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 1: Karence Thomas also wasn't supportive that. You know, well, that's 351 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: a that nigg is a whole, that's a whole another 352 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: story because he's a clown like and but you see, 353 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: he ain't trying to touch the laws on what's the 354 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 1: law about exactly? RACI yes, I keep that too. Yes 355 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: I didn't do that music, yes, but yeah, it's just 356 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: I don't understand just I think one interesting thing that 357 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 1: it's often being left out of this though, is that, like, 358 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: you know, there are a lot of transgender people who 359 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: you know, are capable of being pregnant too and will 360 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 1: have you know, and and even harder time trying to 361 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 1: figure out how to terminate these pregnancies that they may 362 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 1: not want. And I again, I I can't even begin 363 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 1: to imagine what that is like for them, you know, 364 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,239 Speaker 1: because it'll be hard enough for sist women, but you know, 365 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 1: their lives are already in potential, you know, are are 366 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: already in in danger being trans and then having to 367 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: disclose that and and having to try to terminate a pregnancy, 368 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 1: that's a whole other layer of danger and complications. So 369 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 1: you know, my my heart also goes out to you know, 370 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 1: transgender and you know, uh non binary, non binary, you know, 371 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: done and on performing people who also may find themselves 372 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: with unintended or unwanted pregnancies. It's just a mess all around, 373 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: you know, for people who um can get pregnant and 374 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:09,120 Speaker 1: don't want to have children. And it's also very evident 375 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 1: that Clarence Thomas doesn't like black women. So yeah, yeah, yeah, 376 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: I mean not Yeah, that's been cleared for a couple 377 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: of decades now, you know. So I don't know what 378 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,439 Speaker 1: transpired between women and his life and with him, but 379 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 1: it's very evident that, like he does not like women 380 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:30,199 Speaker 1: of color mum. And yeah, yeah, they're the ones who 381 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: are going to stopper the most under this unfortunately. Yeah, 382 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: so sad, I think he's gonna get political in them, y'all. No, 383 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: but this is this is a very political issue. I mean, 384 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 1: I think, particularly when it comes to black women. Um, 385 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,199 Speaker 1: I mean the personal often is the political. You know, 386 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 1: Like our lives are political, whether we want to be 387 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 1: or not. We can't just exist as we are, like 388 00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 1: it always has to be talk. Yeah, I got that. 389 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: My guest, y'all, is very educated, so I'm super excited 390 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: to be having this conversation with her. So how many 391 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: times have someone asked you when are you going to 392 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 1: have some kids? Um? I can't count. I don't know this. 393 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: This has happened a lot. Um. Yeah, I'm happing a lot. Uh. 394 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 1: How does that make it feel? Um? Makes me feel 395 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: awkward because you know, it depends on how close I 396 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 1: am to that person. I think if if someone is 397 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 1: close enough to me already, they already know that I 398 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: don't want children, so they don't ask me that question. 399 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: But if it's someone who's like an acquaintance or or 400 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 1: a stranger, sometimes I listen to that I don't want 401 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: children um. Or sometimes like I say, you know who 402 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: knows you know? Um, But it's it's something I've been 403 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: asked a lot um. But like my parents already, you 404 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: know I don't want children, so they've they've kind of 405 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: given up on that. And they know that I'm very 406 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: I'm very indecive and indecisive on a lot of things, 407 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: but when I am decisive on something, they know like 408 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: that I've made my mind up. So my parents at 409 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: least like they used to ask me, but now they 410 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: don't ask me anymore. I think my mom she's still 411 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: prays that I'm gonna have you know, her grand babies 412 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: some day in the future, but I have siblings, so 413 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: hopefully they'll give her those grandchildren. Um. But um, yeah, 414 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: I've I've been asked a lot um, but never really 415 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: by like total strangers. Um. Usually by people that I've 416 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 1: been introduced to in some sort of social contexts. And um. 417 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: Sometimes I bring it up myself because I think it's 418 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 1: an important conversation to have UM, And I bring it 419 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: up because I want them to know that people who 420 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: choose not to have children. Again, I don't make it 421 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: my duty, but like that people who choose not to 422 00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:00,160 Speaker 1: have children can can or that woman at least he's 423 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: gonna to our children can look any type of way, 424 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: you know. Um, and so yeah, but but short last, 425 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,159 Speaker 1: so sure, I've been asked, I've been asked for the the 426 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 1: amount of time. And I also think it's important to 427 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 1: bring up these conversations so we can normalize it, so 428 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: we won't make people feel uncomfortable or it won't be 429 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: the type of shame. There's nothing wrong with you not 430 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,920 Speaker 1: want kids. It's a choice. Yeah, oh yeah, Like it's 431 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: definitely not something I'm embarrassed about at all, and like 432 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 1: I just yeah, it's it's just it's something I joke about, 433 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: you know, all the time with my friends. My friends 434 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: will be like, you know, you'll you'll be the aunt 435 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: that we you know, that fun aunt you know that'll 436 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 1: pop up and and you know, yes, yes, bring nice 437 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 1: things to our kids, and then you know, I disappear. 438 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: So but but one thing I do think a lot about, um, 439 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,239 Speaker 1: especially as I'm getting older, is how my relationships with 440 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: my friends will change, you know, because the majority of 441 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: my friends do want children. Um, I you know, like 442 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: right now, you know, we can, we can go on 443 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: you know, vacations together. We can you know, find a 444 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: lot of time together. But I'm not um under the 445 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 1: illusion that things are going to stay the same once they, 446 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 1: you know, do find their significant others and have children, Like, 447 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 1: I know that those children and that partner or whatever 448 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:25,919 Speaker 1: will become their priority. Like and I know that, you know, 449 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,120 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna want to come over for you know, 450 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,239 Speaker 1: Daden's play date. I'm not going to you know, like 451 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: I'll come over and only to show my support for 452 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 1: my friends and like their lives. But I'm not going 453 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: to be that person who wants to be constantly surrounded 454 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,360 Speaker 1: by children. So, like I I am trying to mentally 455 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 1: prepare myself. I'm trying to live in the moment with 456 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: my friends, but I am also trying too muchly prepare 457 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:53,439 Speaker 1: myself that like, as I approached my thirties, my friendships 458 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 1: with my friends will will change, you know, as they 459 00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 1: have children, because their children's will become their priority. And honestly, 460 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,239 Speaker 1: don't I really want to hear about like you know, 461 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: your kid is like, you know, I don't know how 462 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: to walk and all that, I don't. I don't care, 463 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 1: you know, And um, I don't hate children. I want 464 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: to make that clear. Like I've had jobs where I've 465 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 1: had to interact with children, so like I've had my 466 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,199 Speaker 1: fair share of like interacting with young kids, and so like, 467 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,719 Speaker 1: I know what young kids are like. And I know 468 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 1: that my friends would be excited and wants to share 469 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: milestones and you know, everyday moments. But we've been completely real. 470 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 1: I don't want to hear about it. So I feel 471 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: like saying it sounds like you're saying them kids and 472 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: the nicest life possible. You know, I just don't. I mean, 473 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: I just don't want that to be what my friendship 474 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: with my friends who become mothers is about about me, 475 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: like hearing them bent about their children, you know. Um, 476 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: because when I'm gonna be the kind of person whos 477 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: gonna be like if you have them, and then then 478 00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 1: I'll get mad and then you know, it's gonna be 479 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 1: a whole thing, you know, And to be real, I'm 480 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 1: not gonna want to like meet up with you at 481 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: the part, Like I understand that you're gonna have to 482 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,160 Speaker 1: bring your baby around, Like I get it, but like 483 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: every's gonna have to be every single time. No, we're 484 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 1: just gonna have to hang out a lot less. And 485 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: that's something I'm I'm trying to like I don't wanna, 486 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: you know, like turn it into a self phone prophecy 487 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 1: that my friendships are gonna fall apart once my friends 488 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: become mothers, because I know mothers can have successful friendships, 489 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,680 Speaker 1: but I don't want to be that one child was, 490 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,159 Speaker 1: you know, child free woman in the group, you know, 491 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,360 Speaker 1: when everyone else has their babies and they're all bonding 492 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,640 Speaker 1: over their babies, and like I'm just like I don't 493 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: know here my dog or something, you know, Like I 494 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 1: just I don't know. I think a lot about how 495 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: my friendships with um my, my friends will change as 496 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 1: they become mothers. Doesn't make you said it does. And 497 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: it also is something that like has has affected my 498 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: deating too. Um Like, last year, I was in a 499 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 1: relationship with someone I thought I was going to sants 500 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:09,439 Speaker 1: in my life with, but you know, I think, you know, 501 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 1: we were together far longer than we should have been. 502 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: You know, like from the beginning I knew I didn't 503 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: want children from the beginning. He knew he did, but 504 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: I I think, you know, we just kind of fell 505 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: ahead over heels for each other, and I think we're 506 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 1: just both hoping that the other person would secretly change 507 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,919 Speaker 1: their minds um or we were both kind of low 508 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: key convincing the other person to change our minds. And 509 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: I just kind of got to a point where I 510 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:34,880 Speaker 1: was just like, this is not going to be sustainable, 511 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 1: Like I don't want to be with you for five 512 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: years hoping that I'm going to change my mind, knowing 513 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: that I'm not, that I've wasted five years of your 514 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: life that you could have found, you know, someone whose 515 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,959 Speaker 1: values do align more with yours. You know. So I 516 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: broke up with him. It was one of the hardest 517 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: things I ever had to do in my life. I 518 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: fell into a really deep depression. I was too eicidal 519 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,239 Speaker 1: for a while, and you know, I just had all 520 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: these what ifs, like what if I could have just 521 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: you know, convinced myself a little bit harder to maybe 522 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,239 Speaker 1: want children. But at the same time, I also know 523 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: that in my heart, this is just not what I want, 524 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: and I didn't want to wake up, you know, years 525 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 1: from now with a screaming kid who you know, wants 526 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: me to make it on breakfast, and I'm like, I'm tired. 527 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 1: I don't feel like making breakfast right now, you know, 528 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: Like I just didn't want to wake up resentful of 529 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 1: this life that I have somehow fallen into, you know, 530 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: And maybe I am glamorizing the child free life. I 531 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: know it's not going to be easy being child free. 532 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: I know that I'm not going to be jet setting 533 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: every three months, Like I know that a lot of it. 534 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: If I don't find a partner who also you know, 535 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: aligns with that, I'm going to be spending a lot 536 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: of time alone. And that's something I'm going to have 537 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: to be okay with, you know, like being all right 538 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: with my own company and knowing that my company is 539 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: and my solitude is okay you know, Um, but it is. 540 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: It is. It is something I think about a lot, 541 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: like as I, you know, kind of jump back into 542 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: dating and um, wondering what that will look like. Am 543 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: I going to have to compromise? Like? Am I gonna 544 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: have to be okay dating someone who already have a child, 545 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 1: you know? Um? Or like what if I date someone 546 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: who's like, yeah, I don't want kids. I don't really care, 547 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 1: you know, because again I'm in my late twenties, so 548 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: people there are people who are still only funs about that, 549 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 1: Like what if we start dating in three months or 550 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: three years into the relationship, they're like, oh, like I 551 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: actually do want a child? You know? Um, how do I? 552 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 1: How do? How do you know? Like how do I 553 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: deal with that? And again, what if there is that 554 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: small chance but I do change my mind? You know, 555 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: then what do I do? I just you know, there 556 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 1: are just so many, so many questions that I constantly 557 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: think about. Well, you definitely made some good points because 558 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: I don't think that you're glamorizing being chaff free. I 559 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: think you're just being honest and I don't think there's 560 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: anything wrong with it. And also when you mentioned your 561 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: your last relations and ship, how do you move forward 562 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 1: with you're going back into the day world, Like are 563 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 1: you gonna be upfront or do you be up front 564 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: and be like, hey, like I don't want kids? Yeah? Like, um, 565 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: on my only getting profile, it's very clear out of 566 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 1: their children like the profile girl Yeah no on the profile, 567 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: like it says like doesn't have children, doesn't want children, 568 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: Like so if a guy who you know, I've noticed 569 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 1: that there are guys who like spipe right on me 570 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: and and their profiles has wants a children, So they 571 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: clearly didn't read that part of my profile, you know, 572 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: because it's not something I'm I'm hiding because I don't 573 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: think it's something too high and it's just a realistic 574 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: part of like some something you should know that if 575 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: if you are interesting dating me, like you should know 576 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: that I don't want children, and you should be like 577 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: okay with that. You know, Um, so are you hoping 578 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: to dating somebody who have kids? Um? Potentially, Like I'm 579 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: started talking to someone who don't have a kid. But 580 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 1: it's not like something serious. I don't know if I 581 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: it's not something I really thought about very seriously, because 582 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 1: the reality is that if I were to enter a 583 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: serious relationship with someone who as a kid, I I 584 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: can't just be you know, daddy's friend forever, you know, 585 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: like guy's special friend. Like the reality is that I'm 586 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: going to have some sort of role in that child's life, 587 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: and I don't know how that would go. You know, 588 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: I don't know how to know. I just I don't 589 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it's not something I'm opposed to, 590 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: but it's something that like I would have to have 591 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: very serious conversations with that like person about you know, 592 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: like how what is my relationship to this child going 593 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: to be? Like how active are you in this child? Like, 594 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: because I wouldn't want to be with someone who isn't 595 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 1: in their child life, you know, I wouldn't want to 596 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 1: be like an, you know an as a father. But 597 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: like it's also just like like if I'm gonna be around, like, 598 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: what is my relationship gip to that child going to be? Like? 599 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: You know, um, because I'm not trying to be a 600 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 1: stepmother either, I don't think um, so you know, like 601 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: those are those are things I still have to think through, right, Yeah. 602 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: So how does it make you feel when older celebrity 603 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 1: women speak out freely about their decision on not one kid. 604 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: It makes me feel really relieved, especially when it's like 605 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: older black women like I know Mary j. Blige talked 606 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 1: about it, um, maybe earlier this year, but she just 607 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: didn't want children, you know, and like she has had 608 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: beyond successful career and you know, I know she's been 609 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: through her trials and tribulations, but like, you know, for 610 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 1: her to say, you know, like I just didn't want 611 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: children like that, It was really validating to me. Um, 612 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: no one question. You know, Mary J. Blige, is you 613 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 1: know womanhood you know or over one for Yeah, she's 614 00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 1: had an incredibly successful career and like I mean she's 615 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 1: had a partner for for decades, you know. But I 616 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: know Sadiman has children, but they're grown. Um. But yeah, 617 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: like Oprah, you know, like I know she's someone who 618 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 1: actually I believe has still birth as a teenager. Um 619 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: yeah yeah, yeah, but you know the fact that she's living, 620 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: you know, she's lived a life, you know, being child 621 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,359 Speaker 1: free and that you know, being child free is not 622 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 1: something that's like the center of either of their lives. 623 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,359 Speaker 1: They've both have been able to like maybe it's also 624 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 1: qually rich, but like they've been able to live a 625 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: law school of travel and like friendship and love and 626 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,359 Speaker 1: all that stuff. And that's that's that's something I want 627 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,879 Speaker 1: for myself to just I don't know a life where 628 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,840 Speaker 1: I don't feel like I'm incomplete because I don't have 629 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: a child. Um. And that is still a fear that 630 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 1: I have in the back of my head. Like my mom, 631 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 1: you know, my parents are immigrants, um so Um, where 632 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: my parents are from. It's just kind of like if 633 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,920 Speaker 1: you are a woman who of a certain age who 634 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: doesn't have children, people start asking questions, Um, um, you're 635 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: kind of stigmatized, you know, and um like I just 636 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 1: I don't know. I just I don't want to be 637 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 1: seen as somebody who was unpoetchable or unlovable or I 638 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: mean I feel like it's a black woman in terms 639 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: of dating. I already kind of have a chip on 640 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: my shoulder, you know, I already kind of have a disadvantage. 641 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 1: But like when I at on top of that, like 642 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 1: the fact that I don't want children, and just it 643 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 1: really wearris me, like especially because you know, my last 644 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 1: relationship he was a black man, and you know, there 645 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,759 Speaker 1: was the possibility of having that beautiful black family, you know, 646 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: that black love, and you know, for a really long 647 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 1: time after that breakup by I, I like really just 648 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: like ruminated over like did I give that up? You know? 649 00:35:58,120 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: Did I give up that idea of like the black 650 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,720 Speaker 1: family and and and you know, having like a black husband, 651 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 1: a black bother to my children. And I was just like, 652 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,320 Speaker 1: well like wait, I don't. I didn't want these children, 653 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 1: so like, you know, I had to constantly stop myself, 654 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 1: and my therapist would constantly like, you know, talk me through, 655 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 1: like you didn't want these children anyway, So I just 656 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: would not have worked, you know. Um. And so I 657 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,239 Speaker 1: don't know, I kind of feel like I'm rambling all 658 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 1: over the place. But I also think with that last relationship, 659 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: we were just so in love and so happy. So 660 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 1: when you in that state of euphoria, oh y, you 661 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,840 Speaker 1: might just be going to all types of place places 662 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 1: you don't even know existed, because you don't know. But 663 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,879 Speaker 1: a grief moment I had told him, Yeah, there's one 664 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,359 Speaker 1: brief moment where I told him maybe I consider having 665 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: a chib for you, And he told me, you know, 666 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 1: like it's clear you don't want them, like, don't do that, 667 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:55,320 Speaker 1: don't don't don't put yourself to that for me, you know. Um. 668 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 1: And again I think it's a relationship that should have 669 00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,800 Speaker 1: ended because we were both very put from the beginning 670 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:03,080 Speaker 1: that we you know, had different stances on that it 671 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,760 Speaker 1: was a relationship that should have ended far um earlier 672 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 1: than it did. But because we were both just so 673 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 1: deeply in love, I think we were both just trying 674 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 1: to trying to delay the inevitable breakup. You know, I'm 675 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 1: not gonna live. My daddy was dating Oprah Winfrey or 676 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: Mary J. Blash, Like, can I please call you mom easily? 677 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 1: Right right? You know, I don't. I don't have that 678 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: particular desire to like be called mommy by anyone. Like 679 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,359 Speaker 1: occasionally I'll see like a kid and then you know, 680 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 1: like my ovary will have a little a little a 681 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,439 Speaker 1: little sprinkle, you know, a little chinged, but like not 682 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,200 Speaker 1: enough to want to like carry a child and give 683 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 1: birth and um, like I already struggle with depression, and 684 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 1: I know postpartum depression is real. And like, you know, 685 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,239 Speaker 1: when I talked to my mom about how I wasn't 686 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: a baby, I'm like, you must have really loved me 687 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,799 Speaker 1: because I was a difficult baby to deal with, you know. 688 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: I was crying tony for seven round the clock, like 689 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 1: you know, there was like I was just a very 690 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,279 Speaker 1: difficult baby, you know. And I'm just like, I don't 691 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,560 Speaker 1: know if I would have had that same energy to 692 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 1: like take care of a baby and stay saying. And 693 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 1: also my mom again, it's an immigrant, like you know, 694 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 1: she only had my father to lean on for support, 695 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 1: you know, when she had me in this country, you know, 696 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: when I was born here and and and so there 697 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 1: were just so many difficulties that my mother had to 698 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 1: go through, like being a new immigrant, not speaking English, 699 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,799 Speaker 1: you know, having a newborn baby, and just so many 700 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,359 Speaker 1: difficult things that she dealt with. And if I were 701 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:39,839 Speaker 1: to have a child, I think I'd have a lot 702 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 1: more support, but I still don't know if i'd have 703 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,799 Speaker 1: the struggle that she had, you know. And so I 704 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:46,719 Speaker 1: think for me, not having a child is also just 705 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:48,400 Speaker 1: being realistic. I don't know if I could deal with 706 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,880 Speaker 1: a crying infant seven and just depriving me of sleep 707 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,759 Speaker 1: and just needing to be fed around the clock and 708 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 1: just still my body healing from a pregnancy. That can 709 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: you know beat trauma? I can you know, damage your 710 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: body in all sorts of ways. And I don't know. 711 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:10,239 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, just just deciding to be topree is 712 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 1: just being real with myself and knowing what what I 713 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,920 Speaker 1: can and what I can't handle. Um And my mom, 714 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: you know, has said like, if you have a baby 715 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 1: and you don't have a baby more, you can give 716 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:20,719 Speaker 1: a baby to me. I'll take care of it. And 717 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,600 Speaker 1: I'm just like, I don't know what I'm not going 718 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 1: to do that I'm not going to have a baby 719 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,279 Speaker 1: dust for you, Like Beta, I love you, I'm not 720 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 1: going to have a baby just for you. That's not 721 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,879 Speaker 1: how it works, you know. Um. But I think also 722 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 1: my mom is coming from a different cultural context where 723 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 1: where she grew up, like people live in multi general 724 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:45,880 Speaker 1: health like multi generational household were, like the grandparents, their kids, 725 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 1: and their kids all live in the same home, you know. 726 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 1: So I think that's kind of what my mom is imagining. 727 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,839 Speaker 1: But I'm like, no, I know, like, if if I 728 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:56,279 Speaker 1: were to have a kid, I would want to have 729 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:57,759 Speaker 1: some sort of rule in their life. But I don't 730 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 1: want to kids. So this conversation is a a whole 731 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 1: bunch of hypotheticals that are leading nowhere. But um, you know, 732 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,239 Speaker 1: I'm the firstborn and I'm the only daughter. So my 733 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,800 Speaker 1: mom is just like, you know, there's a very special 734 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 1: type of relationship that a mother has with her daughter 735 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,840 Speaker 1: when her daughter is pregnant. And you know again, because 736 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,800 Speaker 1: my mom when she was pregnant with me, she was 737 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 1: pregnant with me here in the States, and her mother 738 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 1: was living, you know, in her home country, so she 739 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,400 Speaker 1: didn't have her mother next to her first support. She 740 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 1: only had my dad, and so I think, you know, 741 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 1: she just really wants to make up for that, I 742 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 1: don't know, vicariously through like some sort of pregnancy with me, 743 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,319 Speaker 1: you know that. And I do feel sad that, like 744 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: I can't give that to her, But I also don't 745 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:53,640 Speaker 1: want to sacrifice myself and my happiness just two provide 746 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,800 Speaker 1: for my mom what she was missing, you know. Mm hmm. Right. 747 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:03,920 Speaker 1: Do you know any women who have kids but they regretted? No, 748 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: I don't know one. I I don't have any friends 749 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:11,879 Speaker 1: who have children, so no, um no, um, I don't 750 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,880 Speaker 1: know anyone who have children but regret it, but I 751 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,240 Speaker 1: know that they exist. I think that there's a societal 752 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,720 Speaker 1: taboo against you know, kind of saying you regret your children, 753 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,239 Speaker 1: because I mean, I'm sure it's possible to regret your 754 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,439 Speaker 1: children but still love them, you know, um, because there's here, 755 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,359 Speaker 1: they're here, and there's nothing you can do about it. 756 00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:33,320 Speaker 1: But like, I'm sure their mothers out there who regret 757 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,479 Speaker 1: having their children. Like, we don't live in a world 758 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,799 Speaker 1: where it's easy, you know. That's that's an interesting thing, 759 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,439 Speaker 1: because we live in a world where women who don't 760 00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 1: want children are stigmatized, But we also don't make it 761 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,200 Speaker 1: a world where women who have children are like are 762 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:51,400 Speaker 1: supportive either, you know, like we just don't have an 763 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:56,360 Speaker 1: infrastructure in the state to support women who do have children, 764 00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: you know, like we make it so difficult for mothers. 765 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,600 Speaker 1: So I can very I can. I can see very easily, 766 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,800 Speaker 1: you know, a situation where women may regret having children, 767 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,480 Speaker 1: for sure. And I think a lot of women, you know, 768 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:14,480 Speaker 1: have children that they didn't necessarily anticipate having children. You know, 769 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:20,319 Speaker 1: like I have a relative, um who um you know, uh, 770 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,759 Speaker 1: all right, is again too too personal, but like you know, 771 00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,319 Speaker 1: my my cousin's ex, you know, when I first met her, 772 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,319 Speaker 1: she told me like, I don't want children for a 773 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,440 Speaker 1: while at least, and then not even two months later, 774 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:40,120 Speaker 1: she's pregnant, and um so, I I don't want to 775 00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,400 Speaker 1: speak for her, but i'm I'm I'm guessing that was 776 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,640 Speaker 1: not a pregnancy that she had planned for or anything 777 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:51,399 Speaker 1: like that, and um so, and yeah, we the US 778 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,719 Speaker 1: is just not a place that supports women who don't 779 00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:55,959 Speaker 1: want you mothers or women who wants you mothers either, 780 00:42:56,160 --> 00:43:02,000 Speaker 1: you know. So, so when did you realize that you 781 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:08,520 Speaker 1: didn't want kids? Um? I think I've always known to 782 00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:13,239 Speaker 1: some degree that I don't want children. Um, I just 783 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,160 Speaker 1: never really thought about it seriously until I got to 784 00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:21,200 Speaker 1: the age where people started thinking about having children. Um, 785 00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:25,719 Speaker 1: like it's a team. It just wasn't ever really. I 786 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:27,680 Speaker 1: was a teen, I was so depressed, I didn't even 787 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:29,640 Speaker 1: want to be alive, So like having children was just 788 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:34,240 Speaker 1: not something that was even on my radar, you know. Um, 789 00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:39,880 Speaker 1: But as I got older, I started to think a 790 00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:41,919 Speaker 1: little bit more seriously about it. As I was dating. 791 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,239 Speaker 1: I was never really dating seriously, but I think I 792 00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:46,560 Speaker 1: started to think about it really seriously, Like in my 793 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:50,640 Speaker 1: last relationship where it got to the point where I 794 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:54,520 Speaker 1: broke up with someone I loved dearly because I didn't 795 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 1: want children, Like, I had to really sit and think 796 00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:01,040 Speaker 1: about it, like if I stay with this man, like 797 00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,960 Speaker 1: having children will be a part of my reality, you know. 798 00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,520 Speaker 1: So I had to really sit and think, like is 799 00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,440 Speaker 1: this something I'm willing to compromise on? And ultimately it wasn't. 800 00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,399 Speaker 1: So I think, yeah, within the last couple of years, 801 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,000 Speaker 1: like it was something I began to really seriously think about. 802 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:21,279 Speaker 1: And um, again, I wrote an article on a and 803 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,080 Speaker 1: of my voice and my context is gonna identify me. 804 00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:27,440 Speaker 1: I'm not ashamed of of this, but like, like I 805 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,960 Speaker 1: wrote an article about, you know, about like people who 806 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,200 Speaker 1: don't want to have children, but women who don't want 807 00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,160 Speaker 1: to have children, because I was like, I can't be 808 00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,400 Speaker 1: the only person who feels this way, you know. Um, 809 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,319 Speaker 1: And for a lot of the women I spoke to, 810 00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,160 Speaker 1: they were just like, you know, like, I don't want 811 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:50,040 Speaker 1: to have children because my life is for me, and um, 812 00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,279 Speaker 1: I want to make sure that I can have the 813 00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:56,480 Speaker 1: most fulfilling life possible. And I know that if I 814 00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,920 Speaker 1: were to have a child, life becomes about that child, 815 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,680 Speaker 1: and I want my life to be about me. You know, 816 00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,440 Speaker 1: that seems to be the common thread. And um, you 817 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:11,920 Speaker 1: know that black woman in particular are often expected to 818 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,560 Speaker 1: be in positions where we are of service to others, 819 00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,560 Speaker 1: and that by saying no, like I just want to 820 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:22,000 Speaker 1: live life for myself, that shocks a lot of people, 821 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,920 Speaker 1: you know. Oh yeah, especially when it's coming from a 822 00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,680 Speaker 1: black woman. Yeah. And I think a lot of people 823 00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:30,120 Speaker 1: think like, oh, you know, something must have happened to 824 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:32,880 Speaker 1: you when you were younger, or oh, like you know, 825 00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:36,440 Speaker 1: like you're seeking, Like I don't know, you're you're You're 826 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,439 Speaker 1: like there's there's some sort of trauma or like you're 827 00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:40,680 Speaker 1: you're running from something and it can be a stumple 828 00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:42,200 Speaker 1: is No, I just don't want to. It's like just 829 00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,080 Speaker 1: like just like you want them, I just don't. I 830 00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:45,880 Speaker 1: just don't. It's just a life decision, and I just 831 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:50,319 Speaker 1: I just don't want them, you know, UM, because kids 832 00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,080 Speaker 1: are anfle Like I said, I've I've worked, you know, 833 00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,640 Speaker 1: at summer camps in the past, and I was just like, 834 00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:58,840 Speaker 1: thank goodness, I can give these children back at the 835 00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,360 Speaker 1: end of the day, because I just I can't imagine, 836 00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,160 Speaker 1: like I can see why people sign their children off 837 00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,120 Speaker 1: the summer camps, you know. And I remember I worked 838 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,960 Speaker 1: at one organization. UM. I was interning at an organization 839 00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:18,239 Speaker 1: that like provides like homestays for um like New York 840 00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:24,200 Speaker 1: City children in homes across the across the like East Coast, 841 00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:26,640 Speaker 1: and I remember there was something I don't know. I 842 00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:28,560 Speaker 1: guess there was a mix up with dates in terms 843 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:30,680 Speaker 1: of one one child was supposed to particular at homestay 844 00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:35,000 Speaker 1: and this one mother called me and yelled at me 845 00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:36,920 Speaker 1: until I was in tears, and she was like Mas, 846 00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,400 Speaker 1: she was like, you ruined my Miami vacation. Like, you 847 00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:42,520 Speaker 1: know that I was gonna have without these children, you know, 848 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:44,560 Speaker 1: and now I gotta cancel it because I gotta take 849 00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,040 Speaker 1: you these kids. I'm like, I couldn't yell at her 850 00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:48,640 Speaker 1: back because I wanted to keep my job and I'm like, 851 00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:53,480 Speaker 1: these are your children, like like girl like. But it 852 00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,239 Speaker 1: made me realize how stressful being a parent can be. That, 853 00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,160 Speaker 1: you know, she was mad that her Miami vacation was 854 00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,680 Speaker 1: ruined because of the mix up of these dates, you know, 855 00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:06,480 Speaker 1: And it made me realize, like, wow, these children are handful, 856 00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,799 Speaker 1: you know, and she was really looking forward to her 857 00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:14,400 Speaker 1: time away from them, you know. Um. And again, I 858 00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:18,600 Speaker 1: think that speaks to how parents do need more support, 859 00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,200 Speaker 1: you know, in raising children, Like it takes a village, 860 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,680 Speaker 1: as they say, you know, a lot of mothers probably 861 00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:26,440 Speaker 1: feel like they have to do it all their own, 862 00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:30,840 Speaker 1: or even if they do, you know, have husbands or 863 00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:35,440 Speaker 1: or you know, partners or whatever. Again, childbrewing largely fallows 864 00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,879 Speaker 1: on women, you know, and and sometimes they just need 865 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:43,160 Speaker 1: a break. And U, although I didn't really U internalized 866 00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:45,920 Speaker 1: it at the time because the woman was yelling at me. Um, 867 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,040 Speaker 1: it made me realize, like these children, you know, she 868 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:53,239 Speaker 1: she's tired of them, you know. So yeah, I do 869 00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:58,120 Speaker 1: think that society does need to have better infrastructure and 870 00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:04,240 Speaker 1: support for women or for people who decide to have children, 871 00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:09,080 Speaker 1: you know. Um, but yeah, they're also needs to just 872 00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,560 Speaker 1: I don't know the acceptance of like people who don't 873 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:14,879 Speaker 1: have children. One of my biggest fears of someone who 874 00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,600 Speaker 1: doesn't want children is that I'll just kind of disappear, 875 00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:23,160 Speaker 1: you know, societally, I'll just disappear, and that already feel 876 00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:28,759 Speaker 1: my societal work is kind of running out, you know, 877 00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:32,480 Speaker 1: and um, yeah, I do have a sphere that I'll 878 00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:38,120 Speaker 1: just kind of disappear in terms of importance and that 879 00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:44,040 Speaker 1: people will forget about me, and um, yeah, it's it's 880 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:51,839 Speaker 1: something I worry about. Why, Yeah, like that, Um, just 881 00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,759 Speaker 1: because I feel bad if you know, I'm not a 882 00:48:54,800 --> 00:49:01,680 Speaker 1: mother like and and I already already struggle depression, Like 883 00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:03,680 Speaker 1: what will there what will be there to keep me going? 884 00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:16,960 Speaker 1: You know? Um? Yeah, um, yeah, I I worry about 885 00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:21,920 Speaker 1: you know, when I when I actually hit four year 886 00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:27,680 Speaker 1: fifty or whatever, and if I am you know, child 887 00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:33,920 Speaker 1: free and single, and what what will I be invisible 888 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:39,880 Speaker 1: for society? You know? Um? What will be there to 889 00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:46,799 Speaker 1: keep me going? Yeah? Well, I know that, Like I mean, 890 00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:50,040 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna that was too much of our conversation 891 00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:54,360 Speaker 1: that we had in private. But I like it's important 892 00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:58,440 Speaker 1: for women that we look up to, like Oprah Win Free, Uh, 893 00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,840 Speaker 1: Mary J. Blige, trace Ellis Ross here their stories to 894 00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,400 Speaker 1: remind us that, you know, we can have the life 895 00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:07,040 Speaker 1: that we always dreamed of and it doesn't have to 896 00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:10,680 Speaker 1: connect to what society, what society thinks a woman should be, 897 00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:14,160 Speaker 1: which is a mother. Like you are amazing at what 898 00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:17,840 Speaker 1: you do. I think you're very smart. Um y'all. She 899 00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:22,719 Speaker 1: had me waiting for almost an hour, but something Ara 900 00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:25,719 Speaker 1: told me to stay because I have something just told 901 00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,000 Speaker 1: me this to stay because I knew that it was 902 00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:30,000 Speaker 1: meant for us to meet, for us to meet, and 903 00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:32,960 Speaker 1: for us to have our relationship. So I think that 904 00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:36,600 Speaker 1: you are important, but I understand it. It's not easy. 905 00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,640 Speaker 1: It's easier said than done, and it's working on yourself 906 00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:41,560 Speaker 1: as a work in progress because it's something that I 907 00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:43,960 Speaker 1: do daily, and you know, you just have to see 908 00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:45,839 Speaker 1: it for yourself and to believe it. If you don't 909 00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,399 Speaker 1: want to have kids, your kids is not gonna having kids. 910 00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,240 Speaker 1: It's not gonna make you more than what you already are, right. 911 00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,719 Speaker 1: That's what I try to remind myself. Like, you know, 912 00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,400 Speaker 1: I've I write about women who, like, you know, have 913 00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:01,200 Speaker 1: children because they thinking make your lives more complete, and 914 00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:03,480 Speaker 1: then they just realized it just makes their lives more complicated, 915 00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:08,880 Speaker 1: you know, So I definitely want I don't I'm not 916 00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,239 Speaker 1: under the illusion that like having children will complete my 917 00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:14,720 Speaker 1: life in any way, shape or form, or solve any 918 00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:16,960 Speaker 1: of the issues that I, you know, deal with on 919 00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,600 Speaker 1: a daily basis. Like, I don't think that that's the case. 920 00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:23,080 Speaker 1: But I think it just comes down to my fundamental 921 00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:27,320 Speaker 1: questions that I have about my work and how society 922 00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:29,960 Speaker 1: is vieuse me, you know, as like a dark skinned 923 00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:36,320 Speaker 1: black woman. Um oh yeah, listen, brown skinned for the wind, honey. Okay, 924 00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:39,880 Speaker 1: you have to know and believe that you are that girl. 925 00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:43,759 Speaker 1: So I do continuously. I pray for you. I'll be 926 00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:47,000 Speaker 1: sending you little words and encouragement. You are like a 927 00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:50,920 Speaker 1: little listen to me, And I know it's not of course, 928 00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:56,200 Speaker 1: it's not easy being a brownie, okay, but it's lit, honey. 929 00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,719 Speaker 1: So it's just something we just have to keep working on, 930 00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,319 Speaker 1: keep working all together. And you're doing the work. You're 931 00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:06,120 Speaker 1: going to therapy. So and I do believe you will 932 00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:08,080 Speaker 1: have the life that you always dream of and you 933 00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:11,480 Speaker 1: will have the man for you that don't want kids 934 00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:16,719 Speaker 1: and want to create the life with you. Right, We'll see, 935 00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:21,480 Speaker 1: we'll see. I'm not wanting life to force anything, um. 936 00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:24,640 Speaker 1: So like, if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. Um. 937 00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:27,480 Speaker 1: And I also I'm trying to prepare myself for life 938 00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:30,000 Speaker 1: in which that doesn't happen. So that way, I'm not 939 00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:35,760 Speaker 1: disappointed if it doesn't, you know, um, But I I'm 940 00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,520 Speaker 1: trying to do what I can to live a life 941 00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:45,000 Speaker 1: full of fulfillment, you know, um like, with within my power. 942 00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:51,560 Speaker 1: So and as long as you're trying as all that matters. Yeah. So, Last, 943 00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:53,719 Speaker 1: and not least, what is your advice to women who 944 00:52:53,719 --> 00:53:00,600 Speaker 1: are afraid to stay out loud? Fuck them kids? Oh, 945 00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:06,240 Speaker 1: I honestly would say, I don't know if they're online 946 00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:10,480 Speaker 1: communities that exist. And I also feel like online communities 947 00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:14,000 Speaker 1: for child free women can sometimes become toxic because it 948 00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:16,560 Speaker 1: becomes access pool of like I hate children, I hate children, 949 00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:18,200 Speaker 1: I hate children. I hate anybody whose children you know, 950 00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:22,120 Speaker 1: and the fact as children exists, like you can't avoid 951 00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:25,560 Speaker 1: children you were once a child, you know, Like the 952 00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:28,719 Speaker 1: reality is I don't hate kids, you know, Like do 953 00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:30,680 Speaker 1: I want to be with them for you know, hours 954 00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,160 Speaker 1: on hours? No, But like I know how to have 955 00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:35,319 Speaker 1: conversations with kids. I know how to make them laugh, 956 00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:37,160 Speaker 1: like you know, they know how to make me laugh, 957 00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:40,359 Speaker 1: Like I think kids are cute and sleep. But like 958 00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:45,280 Speaker 1: I don't necessarily know if I would suggest like seeking 959 00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:49,640 Speaker 1: out online communities, because again, it can become kind of 960 00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:53,279 Speaker 1: just like this, Yeah, it can be toxic, but so 961 00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:56,960 Speaker 1: I would just maybe I don't know soft launch is 962 00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,279 Speaker 1: the right word, but like, if you know that you 963 00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:02,960 Speaker 1: don't want to dren, I would suggest maybe talking to 964 00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:07,680 Speaker 1: close friends, um, who you feel won't judge you for 965 00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:11,480 Speaker 1: your choice. You know, Um, I'm very open about the 966 00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:13,719 Speaker 1: choices in my life, so like I don't have a 967 00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:16,920 Speaker 1: problem like telling people about things like that. But for 968 00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:21,320 Speaker 1: people who I think might be afraid, I would maybe 969 00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:26,439 Speaker 1: suggest maybe phrasing get and hypotheticals first. You know, if 970 00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:30,360 Speaker 1: like you're talking with a friend and you know, you 971 00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:32,200 Speaker 1: ask your friend like, where do you see yourself in 972 00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:36,160 Speaker 1: ten years? And they tell you and you're like, you know, 973 00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,799 Speaker 1: well me, you know, sometimes I wonder if like I 974 00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:42,799 Speaker 1: see kids you know, in my in my future, you know, 975 00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:46,040 Speaker 1: and um, that's because like sometimes I don't know if 976 00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:49,279 Speaker 1: I want them, you know. And I know that some 977 00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:53,440 Speaker 1: people feel like maybe they can't tell that to their friends, 978 00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:55,480 Speaker 1: but I feel like if you have a friend that 979 00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,600 Speaker 1: you're close enough to, then hopefully you should be able 980 00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:01,720 Speaker 1: to at least sprinkle that in there, you know. Um. 981 00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:04,680 Speaker 1: And if you do want children and you change your mind, 982 00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:06,520 Speaker 1: that's okay. If you don't want children you do change 983 00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:08,799 Speaker 1: your mind, that's okay too. But I think that they're 984 00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:12,560 Speaker 1: both serious decisions that do like take a lot of 985 00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:15,279 Speaker 1: thought and consideration, you know. I don't think that either 986 00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:19,560 Speaker 1: decisions want to be taken lightly. Um. But yeah, I 987 00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:21,920 Speaker 1: think if you're someone who's trying to figure out how 988 00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:27,080 Speaker 1: to have that conversation, I guess maybe first maybe actually 989 00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:30,040 Speaker 1: instead of bringing it up with a friend, maybe bring 990 00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:33,239 Speaker 1: it up with someone with whom there's less at stake, 991 00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:42,399 Speaker 1: you know, maybe an acquaintance or something, um that way. Yeah, 992 00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:46,040 Speaker 1: or therapy, Yeah, yeah, definitely, oh yeah, yes, therapy. If 993 00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:48,920 Speaker 1: you have access to therapy, bring that up with your therapist, 994 00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:52,239 Speaker 1: and your therapist can definitely help you come up with 995 00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:55,439 Speaker 1: ways to bring that up to people in your life 996 00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:57,759 Speaker 1: that you want to talk to. I had already come 997 00:55:57,800 --> 00:55:59,839 Speaker 1: to this decision and told people before I went into 998 00:55:59,920 --> 00:56:01,960 Speaker 1: the rapy, so like that wasn't something I had to 999 00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:05,200 Speaker 1: talk to my therapist about. But yeah, I think, yeah, 1000 00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:09,560 Speaker 1: going to a therapist, UM, you can definitely help you 1001 00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:13,719 Speaker 1: come up with the tools in the vocabulary UM to 1002 00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:17,960 Speaker 1: have that discussion. And you know, with your herapist you 1003 00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:20,160 Speaker 1: can come up with hypatheticals well, like what if that 1004 00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:22,400 Speaker 1: person says X, how do you respond? Or what if 1005 00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:24,279 Speaker 1: they say why? How do you respond to that? You know, 1006 00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:27,080 Speaker 1: it's not what you are prepared no matter what that 1007 00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:32,680 Speaker 1: person's responses. Well, I'm just so thankful that you want 1008 00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:35,879 Speaker 1: to share your story on the show. I'm pretty sure 1009 00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:42,920 Speaker 1: it's gonna touch a lot of people. It definitely, of course, 1010 00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:45,680 Speaker 1: And y'all, she don't even listen to podcast. I broke 1011 00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:51,960 Speaker 1: up podcast chair. This is a really great conversation and 1012 00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:55,839 Speaker 1: I appreciate you like giving me the space to talk 1013 00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:58,239 Speaker 1: about this because I don't think that there's a lot 1014 00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:01,279 Speaker 1: of space for black women and to talk about like 1015 00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:05,359 Speaker 1: not wanting children. So thank you, of course, And if 1016 00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:07,960 Speaker 1: you'll have any questions, comments of concerns, or you want 1017 00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:10,319 Speaker 1: to say hey girl, Hey, make sure to email me 1018 00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:14,040 Speaker 1: and hello at the PhD podcast dot com. And until 1019 00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:20,600 Speaker 1: next time, everyone Later. Okay, I'm not gonna said bye bye. 1020 00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:21,200 Speaker 1: Oh why