WEBVTT - Tech CEOs Face Lawmakers’ Queries on Disinformation 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Charle Masser and I'm 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanibek. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the world of business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.600 plus technology, politics, economics, all parnessing the power of Business 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.119 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.599 analysts in more than one and twenty countries. You can 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.200 download Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.120 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:27.840 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.960 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. So this week's Bloomberg Business 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:36.159 Week cover story, it's a business takeover about vaccine passports, 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:38.720 which could not only help global tourism, but also some 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:41.480 other industries as well. In fact, every industry is safe 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:44.160 to say. Here's more with Bloomberg Business Week Assistant Managing 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:48.280 editor Jim Ellis. So, we've we've heard so much about, 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:51.199 you know, the pain that businesses have had and the 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:55.640 countries have had, you know, particularly tourist dependent countries, since 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:58.959 the pandemic has pretty much stopped the ability that's sort 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:02.720 of easily moved tween places or even the congregating groups. 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:04.480 So I thought it would be a great idea to 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:07.960 sort of take a long look, deep dive at, you know, 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:11.039 a the problem and also the range of solutions that 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:15.040 are coming out now and whether this vaccine passport, this 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:17.880 sort of mythical savior that so many people have been 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:22.360 talking about, is really going to be as effective and 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:25.240 is easy to put together as a lot of people 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:27.240 seem to think. I mean, this is one of those 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:29.880 things that this is a solution that people came up 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:35.280 with quite so quickly before actually understanding what it means. 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:37.480 It's like, look at that, really, will it be the 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:40.120 golden ticket? And you guys take us to Israel, you 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:43.119 take us to uh Europe, where I feel like this 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:45.280 is where we're starting to see kind of moves in 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:48.160 that direction, at least more ahead than some other parts 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:52.120 of the world. Yeah, they've been very, very much more 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:57.600 interested in in in getting things reopened in a coordinated 0:01:57.640 --> 0:01:59.760 way than here in the US for for a lot 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:02.280 of reasons. I mean, it's in some ways it's simpler 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:06.720 because their health systems sort of centralize a lot of 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:09.880 data and so therefore, uh, here in the US, we've 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:12.959 got a health system where you know, millions of different 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:15.640 systems in every state and so it's sort of hard 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:18.480 to be able to track people. That's easier and in 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:22.720 countries that have their own health systems. But more importantly, um, 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:26.200 certain parts of the world are so impacted by the 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:29.040 drop and travel that they have an interesting getting this 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.520 back together, particularly Europe. Europe has a lot of countries, 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:36.080 particularly in southern Europe, like a Greece or Spain or 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:39.399 in Italy, that desperately need to urism to come back. 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:42.560 It's a big piece of their GDP and they want 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:46.160 some reason to say that it's safe to travel, whether 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.320 it's truly safe or whether that's just a big lead. 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:51.720 It seems more and more businesses, whether it's an airline, 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:55.520 whether it's in the hospitality business, but increasingly whether it's 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.960 in things like sporting events, um um, you know, gyms, 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:02.320 all those are looking to a vaccine passport as a 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:05.280 way to say, hey, it's safe, here's your get out 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:07.720 of jail car. You have this. Now let's get back 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:09.920 to business as usual, all right, So let's talk about 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:11.360 some of the things that are out there. There's the 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:15.280 International Air Transport Association. They've got a travel pass app. 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:19.760 You've got the EU with their digital Green Pass proposal, 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:22.560 You've got the A Okay Pass. Any of this really 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:26.000 working well or at least maybe some tests of it, well, yeah, 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:28.360 the things are in test. The issue is that there's 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:33.600 right now no coherent standard about what these things should um, 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:35.840 you know, sort of what kind of data they should capture, 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:38.880 and how they should be able to sort of share 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:41.080 that data, and what do you have to do to 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:44.160 make sure that data is sort of private because it's 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:47.840 often tied to other data, other health data on you 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:51.200 and other sort of just personal information on you, which 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:53.880 is a really big issue in parts of the world, 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:57.840 particularly in Europe, where privacy is a major concern amount 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:00.760 over everything. And so you've got a lot of competing 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:03.680 systems as opposed to a standard, whether it's you know, 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:08.080 right now, Air Frances trialing something called an a O 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:11.760 K pass, um you know, IATA you know has its 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:14.760 travel Pass, the Common Pass, which is something that's backed 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.880 by the World Economic Forum. All of these are basically 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:22.720 competing systems that in various ways take your vaccination and 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:27.119 and and COVID testing history and put it uh into 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:30.960 a form that can somehow be displayed on a screen. Uh. 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:34.000 The problem is that, um, you know, how that happens 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:38.240 can really affect how private the data is. So increasingly 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:41.599 what we're seeing is people are you know, coalescing around 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:44.599 sort of an open standard that's tied in with the 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:47.080 way that we look at security on the Worldwide Web, 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:50.680 which is pretty well adopted around the world. And the 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:54.400 key here is rather than having a central database that 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:57.960 has everyone in the world's health data, which is something 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:00.640 that most people would not want, I'm just gonna say, 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:02.720 you made me really nervous. Like I think about it's 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:05.240 like similar to what we're trying to do with you know, 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:07.480 medical history. Every time I go to the doctor's office, 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:09.640 I'm frustrated that I file something out. But will I 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:13.120 be ultimately comfortable if there is a universal database that 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:17.560 knows everything medically on me, particularly since that database is 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:20.000 you know, some people would say that's cool if it's 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:23.920 just to transport, to transit borders or something like that 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:28.120 where government is involved, but increasingly, you know, this is 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:30.280 going to be used in Britain is arguing now about 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:32.680 whether this can be whether a vaccine passport can be 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:36.640 used for admissions to pubs. Um you know and um 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:40.679 in other places. I mean, high It earlier this month 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:44.560 said that it would consider using one of these apps, 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:47.280 exploring using one of these apps to determine whether you 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:49.920 should be able to attend a meeting or convention at 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:52.680 one of its hotels. So, I mean a lot of 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:55.880 people are worried about that leaking out. So what the 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:59.320 standard that seems to be emerging will be something that 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:04.520 actually allows the data from your sort of health center 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:08.039 or your health a tester to somehow go into a 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:11.960 secure app within your phone and then you can decide 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:15.000 what what piece of it you want to put out. 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:18.719 And so therefore the border guard or the hard tender 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:21.640 or whatever wouldn't have access to all of your information, 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.160 just what little piece you determine that they can have 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:27.280 from the phone at that time, and that the user, 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:31.720 the person whose data this is, would always be in control. 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:34.120 If they can make that work, and they think that 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:37.040 they can use web protocols to do that, then that 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:42.200 may be a solution. Vaccine passport, Yes for me, Yes 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:46.599 for you. Yeah. Look, it is so tricky and I 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:50.280 hesitate to be totally willing to give up my information, 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:55.279 but we are really in unprecedented times right now. And 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:56.960 it's so sticky because and we talked about this on 0:06:57.040 --> 0:06:59.240 Quick Take yesterday, there are so many issues with this, 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:02.320 so many issues when it comes to equal access to vaccines. 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:06.400 But I don't know, I don't know. I'm I'm I say, 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:08.359 I say yes, but I'm also on the fence. I 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:10.640 don't know. I feel like there's so much already information 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:12.160 we put out there. Is it just so bad to 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:14.240 just say, Okay, yeah, I've got the vaccine. Is it 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:17.400 as simple as that? And it's just, you know, some 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:19.760 universal system that really makes it possible for us to 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:21.600 start moving around. I mean, you know, my wife went 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:23.960 got her first dose this week and she got a 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:26.560 sticker that said that she got vaccinated. She just feeling 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:28.880 probably kind of good. Not like she goes outside and 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:31.240 wears it around, right, It's not like we're going anywhere 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:34.240 right now. Well, that, of course was Bloomberg Business Week 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:36.680 Assistant Managing editor Jim l Is just really breaking down 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:39.000 he oversaw the coverage. Be sure to check out the 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:41.800 Vaccine Passport issue of the magazine. It's on newsstands now 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:44.560 at Bloomberg dot com, Slash business Week, and of course, 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:47.360 on the Bloomberg terminal. All of those stories really a 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:56.040 thoughtful deep dive into the possibility of vaccine passports. This 0:07:56.400 --> 0:08:00.160 is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg. It 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:04.920 takes Tim Stenovik on Bloomberg Radio. Alright, so we are 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:08.200 glued to our live blog that is all about three 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:11.320 well known tech CEOs testifying up on Capitol Hill. We're 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:14.880 talking about CEO Mark Zuckerberg, Google CEO Sundchi, and Twitter 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:17.880 CEO Jack Dorsey testifying right now before the House Energy 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:22.280 and Commerce Committee. The committee Tim is called Disinformation Nation 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:26.080 social media's role and promoting extremism and misinformation. Take that, 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:30.200 your three tex CEOs. You know, I'm starting to see 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:33.640 a pattern here. All right, let's get into it. What's 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:36.120 the pattern that these guys get grilled all the time 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:39.520 by members of the house, warm and fuzzy and cozy 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:41.760 when they're up there. Let's get into it with Sarah Roberts, 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:44.120 Assistant Professor of Information Studies at u c l A 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:47.600 Graduate School of Education, Information studies author behind the screen 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:51.040 content moderation in the Shadows of social Media. She's with 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:54.240 us from l A on the phone, John Erlickman, anchor 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:57.360 byan and Bloomberg's the Open correspondent for CTV National News 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:00.400 on the phone from Toronto. A great twosome to talking 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:03.640 to Sarah. Let me kick it off with you, um 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:08.479 this hearing. What's the problem? Who needs to be really accountable? 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:12.439 How do you see it? You understand this world? Yes? 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:15.120 Thanks for having me to discuss um. I think one 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:18.760 of the big takeaways that I had very early on 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:22.360 in this hearing today, which is as we as we 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:24.679 acknowledge one in a series, we see, we've seen that 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:27.800 we've seen these guys being created before Congress now with 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:30.760 the fair amount of regularity. One of the things that 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:33.599 I was noting today was that there really are conversations 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:36.640 happening by our Congress members that a number of different 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:42.400 registers with regard to UH their their complaints, and they're 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:46.320 they're questioning to the CEOs. We have some members of 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:50.120 Congress who are representing their constituents and talking about individual 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:54.319 perceptions of you know, biased towards them based on perhaps 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:58.720 political or religious orientation or creed or practice. We have 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:02.560 other members of Congress talking about much larger issues such 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:05.600 as the Rohinga genocide and me and mar that seems 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:09.679 to have been orchestrated and and carried out through people 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:12.760 communicating on Facebook. That's fairly well known at this point. 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:17.160 And then we have even members of Congress bringing it UH. 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:22.520 Multilateral trade agreements into the conversation. Trade agreements notorious for 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.080 their secrecy, and it comes comes to be the case 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:28.439 that Section two thirty UH like language is being built 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:31.560 into them. So in a way, although I'm not known 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:34.840 for my great UH sympathy towards the pech firms, I 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:37.800 do have to say that it's it's quite a it's 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:40.520 quite a feat for them to respond to all of 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:43.960 these different registers that the problems are being asked to 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:47.160 respond to are just coming at them from all different directions, 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:50.400 and there's not a lot of cohesion from our Congress members. 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:53.240 It's you know, just as a constituent, I find that 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:56.720 a little disappointing because it really does derail in some 0:10:56.800 --> 0:11:02.040 ways the kinds of complexity is that could be gotten into. 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:04.080 Of course, we know that there's a lot of grand 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:06.600 standing that goes on things that a lot of just 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:09.560 yes or no, I answer the question to prove a points. 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:12.199 So we got to take that political theater into and 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:15.200 to the equation to right, and then that happens every time, 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:18.520 as we've seen time and time again. I should note that, 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.840 as planned, the committee is recessing for fifteen minutes right now. 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:24.599 I John Erlickman, come on in here and talk a 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:27.319 little bit about the lawmakers and their lines of questioning here, 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:30.520 because a common criticism over the past few years when 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:32.920 it comes to the way that these members of Congress 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:37.360 do speak to these CEOs, has been that it's not 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:39.800 always clear that they know exactly what they're talking about. 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:44.000 Do they seem, you know, quote unquote read in on this. Yeah, 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:47.640 it's a great question, Tim, And I'll be honest, after 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.880 listening to so many of these grill sessions and I 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:54.319 and I totally um um see you're serious coming from 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:56.600 It's true that they have thrown at a whole bunch 0:11:56.640 --> 0:11:59.120 of stuff, and maybe the net result is you don't 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:01.320 get as far as you need to get with what 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:05.079 ultimately the goal may have been with today. But at 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:07.160 the same time, this has been some of the most 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:12.000 compelling testimony that I've observed, partly because at the very 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:16.680 least I have walked away so far feeling as if 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:21.719 we have moved beyond whether we actually you know understand 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:24.839 the business, you know, just watching everything, it felt to 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:27.079 me like I don't need to know if this lawmaker 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:31.600 understands everything that goes into the business of Facebook or Google. 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:36.840 There's a robust conversation around whether or not these massive 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:41.880 platforms should have the power to ignore or police their content. 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:46.160 Content that for years they said we don't create, so 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:49.640 we're not responsible for and now they are saying we 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.800 have or we want to implement better ways to police 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:56.040 the content. And to the same A's point, they have 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:59.040 come to the table with a lot of great examples 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:02.800 summary total. Maybe it's a you know, one politician whose 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:05.800 posts were taken down, or maybe it's something else, but 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:10.160 we've got we've gotten to a point where things can 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:14.360 be toxic as a result of what happens on these platforms. 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:17.040 They've done a lot of exciting things. The technology has 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:19.480 allowed us to do a lot, but I would have 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:23.560 hoped that they these executives were in many ways more prepared. 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:26.640 And so now headlines are coming out because there are 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:30.760 served specific examples used like the capital riots. Right. Uh, 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:33.720 some of the lawmakers were asking yes or no, do 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:36.680 you bear responsibility for this? And there's sort of these 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:40.360 stuttering answers, and you know, Jack Dorsey walks away as 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:43.040 the one who acknowledges Okay, yes, Twitter did play a 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:45.959 role in that. And I and I think that, um, 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:49.280 I think that the line of questioning, although scattered, is 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:53.840 actually far more improved from when this process began. Accountability, 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:58.520 yes or now Sarah, I'm pretending I'm one of the lawmakers. 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:01.680 But do they ultimately need to be Sarah accountable for 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:03.600 the content? I think this is what we're trying to 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:06.520 figure out. Are they accountable? Should they be accountable? And 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:08.320 we've only got about forty seconds and then we'll come 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:12.680 back and talk some more. Yeah, I'll tell you that 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:15.480 that that normative question is a bit of a misnomer 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:19.560 because the fact is that they are already accountable. They're 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.200 just accountable to themselves. So it's not as if we're 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:26.480 going from no kind of remediation and accountability. It's just 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.280 that the public and now we both sides the aisle 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:34.120 very much united in this hearing, with with with anger 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:36.840 towards the firms. Well, or does it need to be 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:40.600 accountability to an outside entity and not just internally? All right, 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:42.880 let's get right back to our discussion we're talking about 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.920 the three big tech CEOs, Mark Zuckerberg, Sounder Pichai, and 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:49.680 Jack Dorsey up on Capitol Hill right now. They're taking 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:51.480 a little bit of a recess, but they are testifying 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:55.360 about really disinformation on their platform. Sarah Roberts is still 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:57.840 with US, Associate Professor of Information Studies at u c 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:02.120 l A Graduate School of Education Information Studies and also 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:04.880 still with US. She's from l A. John Erlichman on 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.320 the phone in Toronto. He's anchored being in Bloomberg's The 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:10.440 Open Chris Bonnet for CTV National News. Um, Sarah, I 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:12.640 just want to quickly follow up I was talking about, 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:15.840 you know, you said there is accountability, but do we 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:19.240 need to have more outside accountability of these social media 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:23.200 platforms in order for it to be better and especially 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:27.360 in terms of the spread of disinformation? Just quickly, yes, 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:29.440 absolutely absolutely we do. And you know, I made the 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:32.920 point somewhat facetiously to illustrate the fact that what we 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:35.080 have right now is the case of the Fox reguarding 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:37.560 the hen House, and that doesn't usually turn out so 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.520 well for the hen. Uh. It's it's just not a 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:43.800 it's not a good model. And moreover, many other industries 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:47.480 don't seem to enjoy this kind of uh, this kind 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:51.200 of leeway that has led to the front uh becoming 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:54.440 the bihemos that they are. One Early on in the hearing, 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:59.120 Zuckerberg pointed ingestured at his firms development of their Facebook 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:03.520 Oversight board, the mechanism they're using once again to put 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.320 a check on their decision making power. And that board 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:09.520 is designed as a as a separate entity in the 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:14.080 body that is wholly independent from Facebook. But the thing 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:17.240 is still inside of Facebook's logic, and it still doesn't 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:21.360 curry the same kind of weight and power. That's something 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:25.920 like governmental regulation might or should, and certainly does in 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:29.640 the context of other industries. Broadcasting comes to mind as 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:32.720 just right as we speak on the radio today, Hey John, 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:34.240 come on in here and talk a little bit about 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:37.200 this from the investor in business perspective, here, I'm looking 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:39.360 at a chart of Facebook intra day. It's down four 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:42.920 tents of one percent. Twitter is down about eight tents 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:45.680 of one percent, and Alphabet is tired by just two 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:47.800 tents of one percent from a business perspective, From an 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:50.800 investor perspective, what is the worst case scenario for these 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:55.440 companies when it comes to regulation and it happens. I mean, 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.720 you know, the reality, Tim is that we just this 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:01.600 this hearing today. I think we started this conversation by 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.959 saying a lot has been thrown out. The biggest question 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:08.840 becomes what contangibly come from this. So if there was 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:14.280 something truly meaningful that did come, well, that would definitely 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:16.159 changed the game. But I want to be clear that 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:21.760 Facebook itself is being proactive in wanting to, you know, 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:25.040 have a new version of the script because that way 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:28.080 they can essentially, you know, have a way to just 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:32.240 manage how things are playing out Washington, but on Wall Street, Uh, 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:36.200 you know, with their messaging to investors. Um, the numbers 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:39.639 are pretty astounding, Kim and Carol. I mean, Facebook is 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:41.679 going to generate more than a billion in revenue this 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:44.360 year for the first time. Um, it will have done 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:49.119 that in seventeen years. That's faster than Microsoft, Amazon, Walmart, GM, 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:52.040 Chevron A, T M T. And you know, it comes 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:56.080 back to the fact that they're used by everybody and 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:58.480 they have this massive advice you know, there was a 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:01.919 funny there was interesting moment when Mark Zuckerberg was asked 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:06.560 about advertising targeting those under the age of thirteen on Instagram, 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:09.400 at which point he said, well, people under thirteen aren't 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:16.880 allowed on Instagram, and um, come on, well exactly, and 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:20.280 and and he and and and so the lawmaker asked, well, okay, 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:22.920 how do you verify that? And you know, well you 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:25.840 enter your age and so I think there will come 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:32.280 on John. But but Zuckerberg, what he talked about really 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:35.119 the first time was that they're thinking of an Instagram 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:37.720 for people who are under the age so they can 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:40.639 further police it. So they've got a business plan for everything. 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:42.680 And I gotta tell you, guys, to answer Tim's question, 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:47.000 I mean, investors have loved this story. That is the reality. 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:50.879 You know, making money attracts people who want to make money. 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:53.600 So what does that mean then, John from the investor 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:58.040 world just quickly that I don't really think unless there 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:00.560 are are our real teeth and what Wall makes are 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:02.280 going to do. And I don't think we know that 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:04.920 right now. That Facebook is still in a power position 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:07.639 along with Google. Yeah, exactly, and they've gotten smarter in 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:09.840 terms of lobbying and spending a lot more money, just 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:13.359 like UH companies that have been around for a hundred years. Sarah. Realistically, 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:15.000 we've just got about a minute and a half left here. 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:17.640 I mean, realistically, is this just grandstanding? We'll have these 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:20.720 hearings and then we're gonna move on and nothing really changes. Well, 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:23.520 you know, you you set it up perfectly for me 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:25.640 to spike it over the net. I was reading report 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:29.440 yesterday about the biggest players in the in the government 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:33.880 relations a k a. Lobbying scene in terms of dollars 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:37.040 and boots on the ground in places like DC. Guests 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:40.080 who's leading that race right now? If you guess Facebook, 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:42.959 you'd be right. If you guess Amazon, you'd be right 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:45.160 to their number two. And of course we're not talking 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:48.680 about them today, but they're in the background here as well. So, um, 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:51.680 you know, the question remains beyond these kinds of hearings 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:54.600 that are a lot of political theater. We have to 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:57.600 see what we'll actually shake out in the form of legislation. 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:01.800 But it's important to know that lawmakers often know where 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:04.480 the bread is buttered, right, and these lobbyists are there 0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:07.879 to remind them. Uh So the money piece following the 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:10.040 money is going to be important. And I also have 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:12.639 to say, just as an industry watcher, you know, I 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:15.320 just checked in with this with the trading and stock 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:17.520 prices just before I got on the call. And as 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:20.480 we all know, these uh, these these firms have their 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:23.720 shares trading at darn year fifty two week highs in 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:27.159 some cases all time highs for for a firm like Twitter, 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:33.600 which was languishing and languering, uh, languishing and linkering and 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:37.760 these like really low places. It's way you know, right, 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:40.879 many many times. Hey, guys, Sarah, we gotta run. This 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:42.639 is great and I know we'll come back to this, 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:45.560 no doubt about it over the next few months. Sarah Roberts, 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:48.080 Associate Professor of Information Studies at u c l A 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:51.479 Graduate School of Education Information Studies. John Arlickman anchor Being 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:54.720 and Bloomberg is the open Chris Bonnet for CTV National News. Guys, 0:20:54.720 --> 0:21:04.399 thank you so much. This is Bloomberg Journal. Yeah, but 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:09.359 you let me drive. No, no drive home an please, 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:12.880 I'll do the right drivel Lets me I want to drive, 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:28.680 Just drive baby, question, get drying. This is the drive 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:32.240 to the Globe. Give me thanks well, drying us down 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:35.439 on Bloomberg Radio quite just about nine minutes left in 0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:38.280 today's trading session. Let's get to the drive to the close. 0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:41.920 Bill Smede back with US CEO ce IO at Smede 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:46.640 Capital Management, based in Seattle, but on the phone in Phoenix, Arizona. 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:48.680 The Speed Value Fund, by the way, beating just about 0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:51.520 all of its peers so far this year and really 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:55.400 over the past five years, returning on average more than annually. 0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:57.280 Hey Bill, good to have you here with Tim and me. 0:21:57.440 --> 0:22:01.480 How are you very well? Thank you? So, how do 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:06.440 you see the market environment right now? It's very interesting 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:09.240 as always, that's one of the beauties of having this 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:14.920 as an occupation. Uh, you have what is likely a 0:22:15.000 --> 0:22:20.240 bear market developing in the NASDAC. At the same time 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:24.960 you have bull markets and the things that benefit the 0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:31.200