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Speaker 3: It's very difficult to keep the line between the past.

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Speaker 4: And you believe that someone out of the past can

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Speaker 4: enter and take possession of a living being.

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Speaker 2: We may be through with the past, but the past

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Speaker 2: is not through with us. Welcome to the Next Picture Show.

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Speaker 2: A Movie the Week podcast devoted to a classic film

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Speaker 2: and how it shaped our thoughts on a recent release.

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Speaker 2: I'm Tasha Robinson here with Genevieve Koski.

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Speaker 4: Scott Tobias and Keith Pipps.

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Speaker 2: It's been a busy summer for all of us and

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Speaker 2: we have not been able to get all four of

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Speaker 2: us together for discussions very often over the last few months.

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Speaker 2: What have we missed in the meantime that we that

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Speaker 2: we haven't chatted about. What have you been watching or

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Speaker 2: reading or otherwise enjoying that deserves a little recommendation time here.

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Speaker 5: Well, I want to say I finally caught obsession, but

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Speaker 5: I think that's coming up in feedback, so I'm going

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Speaker 5: to save my thoughts on that picture for then. But

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Speaker 5: I think think the one thing that I have been

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Speaker 5: looking at professionally and obsessedly over is Cape Fear the

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Speaker 5: Apple TV adaptation of that story, which had been made

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Speaker 5: into two I think quite good movies, one in nineteen

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Speaker 5: sixty two with Robert Mitchuman. One that's Martin Scorsese, director

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Speaker 5: of nineteen ninety one, with Robert de Niro as Max Katy.

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Speaker 5: This is a ten episode series in which the Max

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Speaker 5: Katy characters played by Javier Bardem and the Bowdens, who

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Speaker 5: are the family that he is going after that They're

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Speaker 5: led by Patrick Wilson and Amy Adams, and they have

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Speaker 5: two kids of this one and one of the kids

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Speaker 5: is played by Lily Callias, who if you have seen

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Speaker 5: this film called a Good One, which is an absolute gem.

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Speaker 3: It's really kind of cool to see her in this

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Speaker 3: movie because she's leaving.

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Speaker 6: That film in this TV show, not movie.

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Speaker 5: Yes, I'm sorry, this is a TV show, not a movie.

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Speaker 5: Though it's trying. It's trying to give you that you know,

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Speaker 5: cinematic bravado, that robustness, which is kind of one of

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Speaker 5: the better things it has going for it is it's

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Speaker 5: got a real maximalist quality to it that that kind of,

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Speaker 5: you know, results in some plotting where you're kind of

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Speaker 5: questioning a lot of the decision making that is happening

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Speaker 5: in the show a lot, a lot of a lot

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Speaker 5: of As I put it in one of my reviews,

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Speaker 5: it was like, it's like there's like an episode where

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Speaker 5: it feels like the entire family is like the heroin

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Speaker 5: in a horror film that's keeps running up the stairs,

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Speaker 5: you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: It's like that kind of thing. But it's interesting to see.

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Speaker 5: To contrast it with the other two adaptations, it is

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Speaker 5: it is trying to do something a little bit different,

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Speaker 5: trying to really bring Max Katy in his past in

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Speaker 5: line with Amy Adams's character who who also who is,

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Speaker 5: you know, a wealthy lawyer but also kind of comes

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Speaker 5: from more humble stock, and their stories intertwined it interesting ways.

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Speaker 5: So it's an intriguing show, and it's certainly one that

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Speaker 5: will not bore you.

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Speaker 3: I will say that, for all of its flaws, it

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Speaker 3: is lively to say the least.

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Speaker 2: Keith, what about you.

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna do some quick hits here, Okay. On TV,

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Speaker 4: I've enjoyed the TV series Lucky, which is an Apple TV.

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Speaker 4: I reviewed it for TV Guide. It starts Annie Taylor

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Speaker 4: Joy as a the daughter of Connor, is played played

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Speaker 4: by Timothy Aliphon, Who's Oconnor is yourself? You kind of

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Speaker 4: have to get past the central conceit that Annie Taylor

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Speaker 4: Joy needs to be inconspicuous and higher identity, the most

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Speaker 4: distinctive looking person on the planet. But it's I think

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Speaker 4: it gets like thematically deeper as it goes along. It's

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Speaker 4: got a net. Binning is really good as a villain.

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Speaker 4: Quick hit number two. Finally, Think My Wife's Advice and

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Speaker 4: caught up with some books by Jess Walter. This most

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Speaker 4: recent book is called So Far Gone, which is really

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Speaker 4: good and very funny and also very very very of

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Speaker 4: the moment. It's about someone who got goes has to

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Speaker 4: come back from living off the grid for a few years.

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Speaker 4: But the one I think probably his most famous book,

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Speaker 4: and the one is kind of relevant to a movie

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Speaker 4: podcast called Beautiful Ruins, which, without giving too much away,

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Speaker 4: it's kind of about some of the human fought out

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Speaker 4: of people close to or involved with the filming of Cleopatra,

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Speaker 4: the Elizabeth Taylor, Richard Burton Cleopatra. So I would recommend

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Speaker 4: that apparently it came this close to being made into

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Speaker 4: a movie by Todd Field, like they had a shooting

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Speaker 4: date and everything, but it just didn't happen. And then

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Speaker 4: Sam Mendez almost made it, and Nicky Caro almost made

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Speaker 4: it but is still waiting to be filmed and quick.

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Speaker 4: At number three, I'm reading a Red Cheet by James Elroy,

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Speaker 4: because I always read the new James Elroy novel when

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Speaker 4: it comes out, and it is l roy Es. We'll

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Speaker 4: leave it at that, but it's sort of the one

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Speaker 4: we've been making around talking about how making the argument

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Speaker 4: actually the Blacklist wasn't such a bad thing. Communists in

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Speaker 4: Hollywood were a real problem, And here's my novel about it.

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Speaker 4: It's a typical el Roy fever dream and I'm always

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Speaker 4: on board for those. Jennevier, how about you.

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Speaker 6: I'm gonna have to keep it in the realm of TV,

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Speaker 6: because you know that is my job, and I do

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Speaker 6: prioritize TV over movies these days, for better and worse.

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Speaker 6: So I'll give some betters some things that I have

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Speaker 6: been enjoying recently, all adaptations, all very different from each other.

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Speaker 6: First up is the third season of House of the Dragon,

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Speaker 6: which is a show that I've never really loved, and

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Speaker 6: I don't know if I am quite at the stage

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Speaker 6: where I love it yet. But I'm closer than I've

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Speaker 6: ever been in season three, I think it's definitely gotten

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Speaker 6: its feet under it in terms of its viewpoint on

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Speaker 6: this massive civil war that it is about, and then

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Speaker 6: screaming over in the other direction. Another adaptation of Netflix's

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Speaker 6: new Little House on the Prairie series, which Little House

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Speaker 6: is something that I didn't really have a lot of

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Speaker 6: connection to. I didn't really read the books or watch

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Speaker 6: the show when I was younger, but I really really

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Speaker 6: love this series. It's like picture of ven diagram I

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Speaker 6: guarantee you've never thought of before, which is Killers of

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Speaker 6: the Flower Moon and Netflix is the Babysitters Club series

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Speaker 6: just awesome, and it's basically where those overlap. But what's

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Speaker 6: interesting about it is that it does engage with the

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Speaker 6: the fact that the Ingles were on oce Age Land

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Speaker 6: and there's a lot of racism in the original story,

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Speaker 6: and the series does engage with that fairly forthrightly. But

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Speaker 6: also this is still a family series, so it does

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Speaker 6: not get too hard about it. You know, you're kind

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Speaker 6: of still like through a child's eyes viewing this, But

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Speaker 6: I think it's a really deftly done balancing act there.

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Speaker 6: So I definitely recommend that, and then one more adaptation.

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Speaker 6: I'll just throw in a book that I also just read,

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Speaker 6: which is The Other Bennett's Sister, which has a new

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Speaker 6: adaptation on. It's on BritBox, but I watched it via

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Speaker 6: Prime and it follows Mary Bennett, the Forgotten Bennett's sister,

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Speaker 6: first through the events of Pride and Prejudice, but then

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Speaker 6: it continues her story years beyond that, sort of as

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Speaker 6: the spinster of the Bennett Girls. So just a really

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Speaker 6: sweet and pleasant and beautiful little series. So I recommend

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Speaker 6: all of those three very different flavors of television.

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Speaker 2: Oh, that is a lot. I will keep it even

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Speaker 2: shorter than that, because we've got a lot to talk

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Speaker 2: about this week without getting into our recency stuff. You

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Speaker 2: guys are all watching new things. I maybe the biggest

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Speaker 2: thing that I watched the last couple of weeks was

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Speaker 2: when we had our back rooms conversation. We talked about

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Speaker 2: the history of Chi Hotel edgfo's career and brought up

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Speaker 2: Kinky Boots, which has been kind of on my t

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Speaker 2: watch list forever without me really having an excuse to

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Speaker 2: watch it. In these days, I don't need an excuse

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Speaker 2: to watch anything I want to watch, so I finally

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Speaker 2: caught up with that. I don't think that movie exists

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Speaker 2: without the Crying Game coming before it and being such

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Speaker 2: a huge hit for Merrimax.

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Speaker 4: Do you know anything about that film?

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Speaker 3: I do.

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Speaker 2: We'll get into that in you know the Where Can

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Speaker 2: You Read Us and Find Us These Days? A segment

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Speaker 2: of the podcast. But it's definitely few, like, you know,

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Speaker 2: a movie that occupies sort of the same space as

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Speaker 2: a lot of you know, quirky little British or Irish

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Speaker 2: or Scottish hamlet movies. You're Man who Walked Up Hill

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Speaker 2: and Came down a Mountain type stuff, Calendar Girls and whatnot.

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Speaker 2: The full Monty maybe more than most, but it also

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Speaker 2: operates in a little bit of the same space as

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Speaker 2: in The Crying Game, and a little bit in the

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Speaker 2: same space as true life adaptations made more uplifting and

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Speaker 2: in sweet and in some ways simple. Chatel Edgefort is

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Speaker 2: terrific in this movie. It's definitely an odd one for

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Speaker 2: a feel good experience, but the protagonist is played by

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Speaker 2: a seemingly prepewbescent Joel Edgerton. I exaggerate a little. He's

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Speaker 2: not quite that young, but boy does he look young

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Speaker 2: in this movie, and it's it's just kind of a

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Speaker 2: delight to see him. He's always been great as well,

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Speaker 2: although boydes his character take a turn in this movie.

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Speaker 2: Something's happened that are maybe against the order of its

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Speaker 2: you know, feel good about queerness and inclusion kind of messaging.

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Speaker 2: But it was a fun watch and you know, just

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Speaker 2: one of those movies if you haven't seen it before,

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Speaker 2: like looking back on kind of a younger era for

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Speaker 2: both of those two actors in particular, is a real delight.

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Speaker 2: And maybe the other most notable thing is I read Yesteryear,

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Speaker 2: the debut novel by Carol Claire Burke, which has been

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Speaker 2: just making a huge splash as a discussion topic this year.

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Speaker 2: Optioned to be made into a movie by Anne Hathaway,

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Speaker 2: produced by Anne Hathaway, probably starring Anne Hathaway in that

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Speaker 2: title role. Before it was even published, just in arc format,

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Speaker 2: it was snapped up. I think it's going to make

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Speaker 2: a pretty great movie.

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Speaker 6: I actually read it too, so I back you up

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Speaker 6: on that.

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Speaker 2: So check my math here. This one feels like it

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Speaker 2: wouldn't exist if Gone Girl didn't exist. I still think

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Speaker 2: Gone Girl is a better book, but I think this

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Speaker 2: one is going to make a better movie than the

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Speaker 2: Gone Girl movie.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, that's a spicy there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's a pretty fascinating point of view novel.

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Speaker 2: I have been recommending it, if not recommending it, at

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Speaker 2: least telling all my friends about it. The logline is

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Speaker 2: basically popular influencer trad wife wakes up in the eighteen hundreds,

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Speaker 2: and there's more to it and less to it than that,

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Speaker 2: But it's it's very much a character study. It's it's

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Speaker 2: very much a deep dive into a personality and a

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Speaker 2: movement and a particular kind of mentality that I just

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Speaker 2: found fascinating. Jennifer, what was your experience.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I figured out the twist early enough that it was,

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Speaker 6: you know, kind of maybe colored my reading of the

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Speaker 6: novel a little bit, but it was still, you know,

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Speaker 6: kind of satisfying the way it clicked together. And I

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Speaker 6: am very curious how it translates to movie. And I

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Speaker 6: don't think anyone is attached to it director, screenwriter.

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Speaker 2: Yet, right, none, not that I've read, but I haven't

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Speaker 2: keeping up yet.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, so it'll be I think very dependent on you know,

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Speaker 6: who is at adapting it and how, But I think

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Speaker 6: it will definitely push moviegoers unlikable female protagonist buttons in

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Speaker 6: ways that I will surely generate conversation.

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Speaker 2: Wow, well, I meant for that to be a quick

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Speaker 2: round Robin just hey, what the first episode of Yeah

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Speaker 2: you get.

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Speaker 6: A bonus Patreon episode.

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Speaker 2: He's practically a bonus Patreon episode itself. Jennevie, do you

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Speaker 2: remember what we're supposed to be talking about here? Do

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Speaker 2: you do you want to try to recall what our

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Speaker 2: current pairing is?

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Speaker 6: Yes, yes, I think I can figure it out. Christopher

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Speaker 6: Nolan has said he felt he needed something appropriately epic

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Speaker 6: as his first follow up to his much lauded, heavily

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Speaker 6: OSCAR nominated historical movie Oppenheimer. So we look to a

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Speaker 6: literal epic in the original sense of the word, an

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Speaker 6: expansive narrative poem about the adventures of a hero. In

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Speaker 6: this case, it was Homer's the Odyssey, one of the

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Speaker 6: oldest pieces of literature we have on record. The twenty

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Speaker 6: four book cycle tells the tale of the Greek king

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Speaker 6: and hero Odysseus, who offends the god Poseidon on his

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Speaker 6: way home from the Trojan War and is cursed to

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Speaker 6: battle mitst monsters and magic during a decade long journey

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Speaker 6: back to his homeland. Nolan's screen version of the story

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Speaker 6: holds fairly close to the original version, but in the

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Speaker 6: year two thousand, Joline Ethan Cohen put their own more

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Speaker 6: metaphorical version on screen. Oh Brother, wor Art Thou, a

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Speaker 6: tongue in cheek Americana musical that explores a range of

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Speaker 6: early American music as three chain gang convicts led by

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Speaker 6: a George Clooney character named Ulysses, similarly try to find

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Speaker 6: their way back to his home across a land full

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Speaker 6: of perils.

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Speaker 2: So in this episode, we'll head to nineteen thirty seven,

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Speaker 2: Mississippi to talk about the epic journey of a dapper

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Speaker 2: dan man with a gift of gab and the hapless

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Speaker 2: chain gang partners he drags along in his wake. And

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Speaker 2: in our companion episode, we'll look at Christopher Nolan's much

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Speaker 2: anticipated three hour epic adapting Homer's epic. We'll get started

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Speaker 2: in just a minute.

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Speaker 3: To get back to his wife and kids.

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Speaker 1: Ulysses, Everett McGill, We'll do.

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Speaker 7: Anything any boys, but he's about to get off on

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Speaker 7: the wrong track.

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Speaker 3: Who elected you leader in this halfit?

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Speaker 7: Well, Pete, I figured it should be the one with

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Speaker 7: the capacity for abstract thought.

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Speaker 4: Boys, you just stick with me and we're gonna fight.

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Speaker 4: Leave me. I got a plan and I can get

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Speaker 4: my wife back and we can get out of here. Okay,

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Speaker 4: I'm with you. Fellas a.

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Speaker 3: Hand. Then, need you gonna introduce his Pete?

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Speaker 4: I've seen him first, Them sirings loved him up and

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Speaker 4: turned him into a horny toad.

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Speaker 2: You two are just dumbering a bag of hammers. The

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Speaker 2: Coen Brothers, Oh Brother where Art Thou turns on a

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Speaker 2: key sequence where escaped chain gang prisoners ulysses Ever McGill

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Speaker 2: played by George Clooney and his two companions Pete and

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Speaker 2: Delmar played by John Terturo and Tim Blake Nelson, respectively

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Speaker 2: stop at a rural radio station where they hear a

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Speaker 2: man is quote paying people good money to sing into

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Speaker 2: a can. What that actually means is that the station manager,

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Speaker 2: mister Lunde played by Stephen Root, is making formal recordings

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Speaker 2: of what he calls old timey music, basically turning the

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Speaker 2: oral folk tradition into a profitable commodity aimed at salving

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Speaker 2: people's pain and feeding their nostalgia. The South is in

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Speaker 2: the grips of a deep depression it's nineteen thirty seven,

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Speaker 2: and the people are finding comfort in gospel, blues and

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Speaker 2: bluegrass music that either promises salvation and bliss to come

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Speaker 2: in the eternal hereafter, or acknowledges that life is hard

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Speaker 2: and sad, but does it with style, warmth, a catchy beat,

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Speaker 2: or sweet harmonies. Ulysses and his two pals, along with

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Speaker 2: a black guitarist named Tommy Johnson who they meet along

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Speaker 2: the way, perform an old folk classic called Man of

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Speaker 2: Constant Sorrow for mister Lund and get paid ten bucks each,

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Speaker 2: although Ulysses does manage to him out of a little

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Speaker 2: extra while they continue on their journey, though, their recording

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Speaker 2: becomes an immense hit, turning them into what you might

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Speaker 2: call literal folk heroes. The popularity of Man of Constant

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Speaker 2: Sorrow within the movie parallels the popularity at met in

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Speaker 2: real life. When the Cohens were first developing O Brother,

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Speaker 2: they reached out to producer T Bone Burnett about developing

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Speaker 2: the film's soundtrack, telling him that they wanted to make

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Speaker 2: a movie about the history of American roots music. They

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Speaker 2: had just worked with Burnett on the soundtrack to nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety eight to the Big Lebowski, where he had served

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Speaker 2: as a musical archivist, researching and suggesting songs they could

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Speaker 2: use for that film's soundtrack. For Oh Brother, they wanted

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Speaker 2: him to take on a bigger role as composer and producer,

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Speaker 2: drawing in his archival familiarity with early Americana. The Cohens

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Speaker 2: were still writing a script when they reached out to Burnett.

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Speaker 2: They wanted his soundtrack for the film selected and planned

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Speaker 2: before they finished writing, so they could make sure the

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Speaker 2: songs integrated with and helped shape the story. The American

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Speaker 2: roots music revival era was just getting started at that time,

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Speaker 2: and Burnett, who'd done his own work in the field,

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Speaker 2: had connections with plenty of people who had been recording

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Speaker 2: and performing Americana in comparative obscurity, notably including Gillian Welsh,

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Speaker 2: Alison Krausse, and Emi Lou Harris, as well as Dan Taminsky,

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Speaker 2: who provides Ulysses's singing voice on Man of Constant Sorrow.

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Speaker 2: The soundtrack they created was a blockbuster, hitting number one

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Speaker 2: on the Billboard two hundred chart, selling more than eight

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Speaker 2: million copies, being certified platinum eight times over, and winning

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Speaker 2: Album of the Year at the Grammys. It hugely boosted

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Speaker 2: the careers of many of the musicians involved, and inspired

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Speaker 2: a hugely successful tour and concert DVD, as well as

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Speaker 2: kicking off a new wave of Americana revival, and Man

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Speaker 2: of Constant Sorrow, a song first published in nineteen thirteen,

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Speaker 2: was the anchor for that phenomenon. It was an inescapable

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Speaker 2: hit in late two thousand. Strangely enough, for those of

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Speaker 2: us looking back on it today, the soundtrack's outsized success

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Speaker 2: actually overshadowed the film's mild success. Critics largely liked O

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Speaker 2: Brother but considered it a minor weird oddity. In the

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Speaker 2: Coen Collection, reviews called it a quirky stacado movie that

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Speaker 2: wasn't quite a musical and that was maybe a bit

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Speaker 2: too ambitiously aeridite, both an adapting homer for the nineteen

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Speaker 2: thirties American South and in taking its poetic title from

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Speaker 2: the pretentious fictional movie about the depression that John L.

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Speaker 2: Sullivan wants to make in the nineteen forty one classic

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Speaker 2: Sullivan's Travels before he ends up on a chain gang himself.

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Speaker 2: The film was a modest theatrical hit, making seventy five

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Speaker 2: million dollars on a twenty six million dollar budget. But

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Speaker 2: it wasn't an industry changing blockbuster the way the soundtrack was.

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Speaker 2: That muted initial reception for the movie as a whole

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Speaker 2: is a bit hard to believe when watching the film today.

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Speaker 2: The script is lively funny and eminently quotable. Clooney delivers

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Speaker 2: a tremendous performance as the self impressed Ulysses, who was

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Speaker 2: arrested for practicing law without a license, but promises his

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Speaker 2: Chain Gang companions he has more than a million dollars

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Speaker 2: in stolen armored car money waiting for the three of

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Speaker 2: them if they make it back to his home. Tretura

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Speaker 2: and Nelson are hilarious is his dim, grimy companions who

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Speaker 2: have big play for the payout he's offering and what

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Speaker 2: it will mean to finally escape poverty. And the whole

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Speaker 2: film is a parade of familiar Coen character types, particularly grifters,

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Speaker 2: con men, and double dealing women. For every person who

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Speaker 2: sincerely wants to bring the Chainyang boys to justice, it

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Speaker 2: seems like there are ten who hope to profit on

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Speaker 2: them in some way. The Coens have said that the

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Speaker 2: film didn't start out as a riff on the odyssey

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Speaker 2: They're pitch to Burnett, calling it a movie about music

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Speaker 2: history backs that up. In interviews, they've said it started

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Speaker 2: life as a quote three dim wits on the run

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Speaker 2: unquote movie that only became an Odyssey riff halfway through

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Speaker 2: the process when they realized it was about a man

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Speaker 2: on a law journey to get home. They've also said

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Speaker 2: that they never read The Odyssey and that they relied

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Speaker 2: on a comic book adaptation to get the gist, which

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Speaker 2: likely explains the broad approach to the film's Odyssey elements

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Speaker 2: like Holly Hunner as Ulysses deservedly resentful wife Penny, who,

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Speaker 2: unlike Odysseus's long suffering wife Penelope, has moved on and

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Speaker 2: accepted one of her suitors as their new husband to be,

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Speaker 2: or John Goodman as a one eyed Bible salesman, and

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Speaker 2: Ku Klux Klan Hancho, a riff on the Odyssey's cyclops.

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Speaker 2: These elements were added to the script later in the

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Speaker 2: writing process, once the Cohen's added the Odyssey idea. But

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Speaker 2: the songs came early, fitting I suppose for early American music,

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Speaker 2: and the soundtrack's biggest hit came earlier than you might think.

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Speaker 2: T Bone Burnett says he originally proposed man of constant

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Speaker 2: sorrow as a theme song for the dude in The

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Speaker 2: Big Lebowski, but it wound up not quite fitting the

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Speaker 2: tone the Cohens were reaching for in that movie. Instead,

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Speaker 2: he kept the song in his back pocket and it

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Speaker 2: wound up defining a different movie. Ulysses Everett Miguil really

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Speaker 2: is a man of constant sorrow, though like his namesake,

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Speaker 2: he brings some of that sorrow on himself through his

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Speaker 2: own choices. That's a theme that neither the poverty struck

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Speaker 2: struggling people in the movie nor the revival struck musical

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Speaker 2: fans of the year two thousand necessarily wanted with their

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Speaker 2: roots music. But in the Cohen's hands, Ulysses, culpability is

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Speaker 2: part of the spice that makes this movie such a

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Speaker 2: compelling comedy unlikely, mega hit soundtrack and all. The Next

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Speaker 2: Picture Show is presented by Regal Unlimited, the all you

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Speaker 2: of smoke from Canadian wildfires is hovering over the Midwest,

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Speaker 2: including Next Picture Show home bases Chicago and Detroit, and

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Speaker 3: You work for the Railroad.

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Speaker 4: Grandpa I wig for no man got a name dead,

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Speaker 4: I have no name. Well right, there may be the

431
00:22:55,005 --> 00:22:57,445
Speaker 4: reason you've had difficulty finding game ful employment.

432
00:22:57,445 --> 00:22:59,645
Speaker 3: You see in the mart of competitive commerce.

433
00:22:59,725 --> 00:23:04,085
Speaker 8: You seek a grade fortune, you who will nine change.

434
00:23:04,885 --> 00:23:08,645
Speaker 8: You will find a fortune who it would not be

435
00:23:08,765 --> 00:23:15,165
Speaker 8: the fortune you seek. But first, first you must travel

436
00:23:16,285 --> 00:23:22,805
Speaker 8: a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.

437
00:23:25,125 --> 00:23:31,325
Speaker 3: You shall see that wonderful to tell you shall see

438
00:23:32,405 --> 00:23:35,605
Speaker 3: a cow on the roof of the.

439
00:23:37,125 --> 00:23:41,605
Speaker 4: Cotton house, and oh so many started me.

440
00:23:44,045 --> 00:23:46,325
Speaker 8: I cannot tell you how long this road shall be,

441
00:23:47,045 --> 00:23:51,085
Speaker 8: but feel not the obstacles in your pay for fee?

442
00:23:51,165 --> 00:23:53,725
Speaker 4: Thats foutsafe your reward?

443
00:23:55,405 --> 00:23:56,525
Speaker 3: Do the road mean?

444
00:23:56,645 --> 00:23:56,845
Speaker 7: Why?

445
00:23:58,485 --> 00:23:59,445
Speaker 3: Y you hot?

446
00:23:59,645 --> 00:23:59,765
Speaker 7: Ru?

447
00:24:01,285 --> 00:24:08,125
Speaker 3: Still? Shall you father dom me? Even unto your sad face? So?

448
00:24:08,405 --> 00:24:12,165
Speaker 2: How much did the Odyssey parallels matter to you? And

449
00:24:12,205 --> 00:24:15,165
Speaker 2: in looking at this movie there are I think the

450
00:24:15,205 --> 00:24:18,605
Speaker 2: first time I watched it, I was I kept sort

451
00:24:18,645 --> 00:24:21,045
Speaker 2: of thinking, Okay, I know what that's referring to. I

452
00:24:21,125 --> 00:24:23,045
Speaker 2: know what that's referring to. I know where this is going,

453
00:24:23,085 --> 00:24:24,845
Speaker 2: I know what this means. And then I kind of

454
00:24:24,885 --> 00:24:28,845
Speaker 2: tripped over elements I couldn't immediately identify, but I guess

455
00:24:28,885 --> 00:24:32,445
Speaker 2: both on a sort of a surface viewing and in

456
00:24:32,565 --> 00:24:35,485
Speaker 2: exploring kind of the deeper themes of this movie. Does

457
00:24:35,565 --> 00:24:37,405
Speaker 2: it matter that this is a riff on the Odyssey?

458
00:24:37,405 --> 00:24:38,765
Speaker 2: As far as you're concerned.

459
00:24:38,845 --> 00:24:41,565
Speaker 4: It feels like they kind of take what they want

460
00:24:42,165 --> 00:24:45,285
Speaker 4: or feel the story needs from the Odyssey, and then

461
00:24:45,325 --> 00:24:48,045
Speaker 4: it's faithful to a degree it serves our needs. Like

462
00:24:48,285 --> 00:24:52,925
Speaker 4: Junngleman plays big d Antigue, who's obviously the Cyclops, but

463
00:24:53,325 --> 00:24:56,405
Speaker 4: other than being a big guy with one eye, doesn't

464
00:24:56,445 --> 00:24:59,845
Speaker 4: really map onto the Cyclops from the Odyssey. All that

465
00:24:59,845 --> 00:25:02,605
Speaker 4: that well, But of course, you know, things like the

466
00:25:02,645 --> 00:25:07,405
Speaker 4: sirens and the baptismal scene I think really do kind

467
00:25:07,445 --> 00:25:09,485
Speaker 4: of kind of square up. So I think if you're

468
00:25:09,685 --> 00:25:11,965
Speaker 4: looking to make a really neat one one to one

469
00:25:12,005 --> 00:25:14,965
Speaker 4: match on everything, you're you're going to go crazy, or

470
00:25:15,005 --> 00:25:16,605
Speaker 4: at least you know, I think you're maybe looking at

471
00:25:16,645 --> 00:25:19,085
Speaker 4: the movie wrong. But the parallels I think they matter

472
00:25:19,325 --> 00:25:21,165
Speaker 4: though inso far as they're there.

473
00:25:21,005 --> 00:25:23,765
Speaker 6: Well, they do matter very much for me in the

474
00:25:23,925 --> 00:25:27,885
Speaker 6: sense that oh, Brother Art Thou was like really kind

475
00:25:27,885 --> 00:25:32,005
Speaker 6: of a formative Odyssey experience for me. I've told the

476
00:25:32,005 --> 00:25:35,365
Speaker 6: story on the podcast before, so apologies if it's familiar,

477
00:25:35,725 --> 00:25:37,605
Speaker 6: but it came out in the year two thousand when

478
00:25:37,645 --> 00:25:40,485
Speaker 6: I was a senior in high school, and I don't

479
00:25:40,485 --> 00:25:43,605
Speaker 6: remember it came out before or after. When my humanities

480
00:25:43,645 --> 00:25:47,765
Speaker 6: class did a basically a semester long project on the Iliad,

481
00:25:47,765 --> 00:25:51,485
Speaker 6: the Odyssey, the Aeneid, and we part of that project

482
00:25:51,685 --> 00:25:54,565
Speaker 6: was adapting the Odyssey. We all had the three different

483
00:25:54,605 --> 00:25:57,405
Speaker 6: classes and everyone came up with their own adaptation that

484
00:25:57,445 --> 00:25:59,005
Speaker 6: they put on as a play, and there was a

485
00:25:59,005 --> 00:26:02,205
Speaker 6: winner in my class one. So the fact that like, oh,

486
00:26:02,285 --> 00:26:05,285
Speaker 6: brother was like so huge in the culture at the

487
00:26:05,365 --> 00:26:08,965
Speaker 6: same time that I was experiencing the Odyssey, reading the

488
00:26:09,005 --> 00:26:12,325
Speaker 6: Odyssey and also adapting it on my own as part

489
00:26:12,365 --> 00:26:16,285
Speaker 6: of a class project, I imprinted on this movie in

490
00:26:16,325 --> 00:26:18,525
Speaker 6: a really profound way, Like I can't think of the

491
00:26:18,565 --> 00:26:21,405
Speaker 6: Odyssey without thinking of a brother art thou, Which is

492
00:26:21,405 --> 00:26:24,365
Speaker 6: why I've been stumping for this pairing, even though you've

493
00:26:24,405 --> 00:26:28,365
Speaker 6: done a lot of Cohen Brothers movies recently, just like

494
00:26:28,565 --> 00:26:32,925
Speaker 6: it is the Odyssey movie to me up until Nolan's,

495
00:26:33,405 --> 00:26:39,645
Speaker 6: which what I will admit, is more perhaps definitive, but

496
00:26:40,205 --> 00:26:43,365
Speaker 6: watching it again for this pairing, you know there are

497
00:26:43,605 --> 00:26:46,765
Speaker 6: obviously like specific parallels like the Cyclops and the Sirens

498
00:26:46,805 --> 00:26:50,245
Speaker 6: and Penelope, you know, and Penny and Ulysses. And there's

499
00:26:50,285 --> 00:26:53,125
Speaker 6: lots of characters and plot based parallels, but they aren't

500
00:26:53,165 --> 00:26:56,365
Speaker 6: they don't go that deep. But We're the biggest parallel

501
00:26:56,405 --> 00:26:58,725
Speaker 6: for me is kind of on a metal level, which

502
00:26:58,765 --> 00:27:02,085
Speaker 6: is the whole stuff about song and oral tradition and

503
00:27:02,085 --> 00:27:05,685
Speaker 6: the fact that this is a musical and the line

504
00:27:05,765 --> 00:27:09,445
Speaker 6: of Pappy Daniels saying, you know, we're mass communicating now,

505
00:27:09,485 --> 00:27:12,205
Speaker 6: it just it feels so of a piece with the

506
00:27:12,325 --> 00:27:16,605
Speaker 6: oral tradition and how stories are passed forward outside of

507
00:27:16,605 --> 00:27:17,325
Speaker 6: the written word.

508
00:27:17,885 --> 00:27:18,525
Speaker 3: I struggle.

509
00:27:18,565 --> 00:27:21,365
Speaker 5: I mean, I do, I do really like this movie,

510
00:27:21,525 --> 00:27:24,205
Speaker 5: but with regard to it's thinking about it as an

511
00:27:24,205 --> 00:27:28,845
Speaker 5: adaptation of the Odyssey, it doesn't feel like it has

512
00:27:28,885 --> 00:27:32,045
Speaker 5: a tremendous amount of weight so much as it does

513
00:27:32,645 --> 00:27:34,885
Speaker 5: you know, kind of appeal. I mean, this is such

514
00:27:34,885 --> 00:27:38,244
Speaker 5: as kind of this wild you know, boola base of

515
00:27:38,805 --> 00:27:41,925
Speaker 5: influences and sort of touches and you've got you. You

516
00:27:41,965 --> 00:27:45,845
Speaker 5: have some historical references here too, and obviously the music

517
00:27:45,965 --> 00:27:49,045
Speaker 5: is its own thing, and and uh it references films

518
00:27:49,085 --> 00:27:51,085
Speaker 5: like you know, I was a Fugitive on a chain.

519
00:27:51,125 --> 00:27:53,805
Speaker 5: Gang is also part of the mix. Here and as

520
00:27:53,805 --> 00:27:57,725
Speaker 5: well as earlier sort of forms of slapstick or vaudeville comedy,

521
00:27:57,765 --> 00:27:59,484
Speaker 5: all that kind of plays into it. So as far

522
00:27:59,525 --> 00:28:02,125
Speaker 5: as like it almost feels like when you see the

523
00:28:02,165 --> 00:28:05,325
Speaker 5: credit that it's based on, whereas the Odyssey, it just

524
00:28:05,365 --> 00:28:07,925
Speaker 5: it feels a little bit like a joke, like one

525
00:28:07,925 --> 00:28:11,045
Speaker 5: of those Coen Brothers jokes where where they where they're

526
00:28:11,125 --> 00:28:13,165
Speaker 5: extremely clever and looking at you a.

527
00:28:13,165 --> 00:28:14,405
Speaker 3: Little bit far ago.

528
00:28:14,525 --> 00:28:15,845
Speaker 6: This is a true story.

529
00:28:15,845 --> 00:28:18,125
Speaker 3: Kind of like that. I mean, you know, but I

530
00:28:18,165 --> 00:28:18,405
Speaker 3: like it.

531
00:28:18,445 --> 00:28:20,445
Speaker 5: I mean, I think it's I mean, I think at

532
00:28:20,525 --> 00:28:25,045
Speaker 5: least lee to encounters that are you know, full of

533
00:28:25,245 --> 00:28:28,445
Speaker 5: surprise and fun and are strange and actually kind of

534
00:28:28,485 --> 00:28:30,645
Speaker 5: digestible in a way that's surprising.

535
00:28:30,845 --> 00:28:31,045
Speaker 3: You know.

536
00:28:31,605 --> 00:28:34,725
Speaker 5: We showed this movie to our fifteen year old to

537
00:28:34,765 --> 00:28:37,765
Speaker 5: watch this with us and just accepted everything that happened.

538
00:28:37,805 --> 00:28:39,765
Speaker 5: I was thinking, like, is she gonna get stuck on

539
00:28:39,845 --> 00:28:43,405
Speaker 5: just the sirens or you know, what is you going

540
00:28:43,445 --> 00:28:45,845
Speaker 5: to think about that? When when it happens and it

541
00:28:45,965 --> 00:28:47,605
Speaker 5: just it just gets it works, So the whole thing

542
00:28:47,685 --> 00:28:48,405
Speaker 5: somehow works.

543
00:28:48,685 --> 00:28:52,445
Speaker 3: The audacity of this film is kind of amazing to me.

544
00:28:53,205 --> 00:28:56,805
Speaker 2: It's a weird thing that sometimes happens for me with adaptations,

545
00:28:56,845 --> 00:28:59,285
Speaker 2: where if you don't know the source material at all,

546
00:28:59,765 --> 00:29:02,085
Speaker 2: the movie probably goes down a lot smoother, you know,

547
00:29:02,165 --> 00:29:04,525
Speaker 2: because it can just be its own thing instead of

548
00:29:04,605 --> 00:29:07,645
Speaker 2: being something that you know, I cannot turn off the

549
00:29:07,645 --> 00:29:12,205
Speaker 2: part of my brain that compares the source material. And

550
00:29:12,245 --> 00:29:16,405
Speaker 2: in this case, you know, I accepted kind of the

551
00:29:16,485 --> 00:29:20,845
Speaker 2: merging of the Sirens and Circe conceptually and in terms

552
00:29:20,885 --> 00:29:23,205
Speaker 2: of of like what they do, how they behave you know,

553
00:29:23,245 --> 00:29:28,285
Speaker 2: I accepted any level of sure, let's meet the Oracle

554
00:29:28,445 --> 00:29:30,525
Speaker 2: at the beginning of the movie instead of at the

555
00:29:30,525 --> 00:29:33,685
Speaker 2: midpoint of the story, and you know, we don't have

556
00:29:33,765 --> 00:29:36,245
Speaker 2: to go on a perilous journey just to find him.

557
00:29:36,285 --> 00:29:40,485
Speaker 2: Like any adaptation, like choices made like that can just

558
00:29:40,565 --> 00:29:42,725
Speaker 2: kind of like, you know, roll off the brain. But

559
00:29:42,765 --> 00:29:45,725
Speaker 2: I find myself getting a little stuck here looking for

560
00:29:45,885 --> 00:29:50,645
Speaker 2: parallels in things like Babyface Nelson turning up, Like is

561
00:29:50,685 --> 00:29:53,885
Speaker 2: that is that just a historical reference in the way

562
00:29:54,125 --> 00:29:56,765
Speaker 2: Tommy Johnson turning up might be, or in the way

563
00:29:56,805 --> 00:30:01,645
Speaker 2: some of the political chicanery feels familiar. I suspect that

564
00:30:02,205 --> 00:30:04,765
Speaker 2: Keith already answered this question by saying, you know, if

565
00:30:04,805 --> 00:30:07,205
Speaker 2: you're getting tripped up by these things. You're watching the

566
00:30:07,245 --> 00:30:09,485
Speaker 2: movie wrong. I might just be watching the movie wrong.

567
00:30:09,725 --> 00:30:12,205
Speaker 6: I mean, I don't think it's a matter of wrong

568
00:30:12,285 --> 00:30:13,925
Speaker 6: or right. I think I kind of think of it

569
00:30:13,965 --> 00:30:18,205
Speaker 6: as just like a little added layer of fun on

570
00:30:18,685 --> 00:30:21,405
Speaker 6: top of like what is already a really fun movie.

571
00:30:21,445 --> 00:30:24,885
Speaker 6: Like I keep catching things that are like maybe a

572
00:30:24,925 --> 00:30:27,805
Speaker 6: reference to the Odyssey, or maybe they're just something that

573
00:30:27,845 --> 00:30:30,205
Speaker 6: I can kind of loosely connect to the Odyssey because

574
00:30:30,245 --> 00:30:32,565
Speaker 6: I'm watching it in this frame of mind. Like the

575
00:30:32,565 --> 00:30:37,045
Speaker 6: baby face Nelson stuff. I didn't realize until this viewing

576
00:30:37,245 --> 00:30:40,925
Speaker 6: the stuff with the cows, the live stock, you know, George,

577
00:30:40,965 --> 00:30:43,685
Speaker 6: not the live stock, you know, but he's which is

578
00:30:43,885 --> 00:30:47,005
Speaker 6: very funny, you know, on own. But then you also

579
00:30:47,125 --> 00:30:52,685
Speaker 6: have the cattle, you know of yes, yes, so you know,

580
00:30:53,205 --> 00:30:56,725
Speaker 6: like whether that was intentional on the Cohen's part, I

581
00:30:56,765 --> 00:30:59,045
Speaker 6: can't say, and I don't really care to find out

582
00:30:59,045 --> 00:31:01,005
Speaker 6: if they if they've spoken about it. But I just

583
00:31:01,085 --> 00:31:04,085
Speaker 6: as a viewer it as someone who like knows this

584
00:31:04,205 --> 00:31:07,245
Speaker 6: movie quite well, you know, I have fun when I

585
00:31:07,285 --> 00:31:11,365
Speaker 6: spot those little micro connections you know of, oh yeah,

586
00:31:11,405 --> 00:31:14,325
Speaker 6: that there's cows in both Maybe that was intentional, you.

587
00:31:14,285 --> 00:31:18,165
Speaker 5: Know, you're blowing my mind that of course it works that,

588
00:31:18,605 --> 00:31:22,565
Speaker 5: you know, I mean, Babyface doesn't. He's faded after gunning

589
00:31:22,645 --> 00:31:25,925
Speaker 5: down those that livestock. It says it that's it doesn't work.

590
00:31:25,925 --> 00:31:29,525
Speaker 2: Out's hilarious. Even having just seen Nolan's Odyssey, I did

591
00:31:29,565 --> 00:31:31,365
Speaker 2: not make that connection. That's great, thank you.

592
00:31:32,165 --> 00:31:34,885
Speaker 5: The thing about this movie too, just just generally is

593
00:31:34,925 --> 00:31:36,525
Speaker 5: like I was looking forward to this episode just to

594
00:31:36,525 --> 00:31:38,565
Speaker 5: hear what everyone else how to say about it, because

595
00:31:38,565 --> 00:31:41,645
Speaker 5: I have so much difficulty kind of breaking it down.

596
00:31:41,845 --> 00:31:45,005
Speaker 5: But it just works in a way that's so magical,

597
00:31:45,245 --> 00:31:49,005
Speaker 5: almost mysterious to be. I mean, obviously there's certain service pleasures,

598
00:31:49,405 --> 00:31:52,685
Speaker 5: the comedy that's low comedy and very funny and all,

599
00:31:53,165 --> 00:31:56,885
Speaker 5: and there's great chemistry there of course, but there's something

600
00:31:56,965 --> 00:32:00,245
Speaker 5: too about the music and the way it's incorporated and

601
00:32:01,005 --> 00:32:02,685
Speaker 5: the look of the film and the whole thing just

602
00:32:02,805 --> 00:32:06,565
Speaker 5: kind of combines. It feels soulful in its way, you know,

603
00:32:06,725 --> 00:32:10,285
Speaker 5: it feels I find myself moved by it every time

604
00:32:10,285 --> 00:32:12,765
Speaker 5: I watch it, and it's but it's it's so hard

605
00:32:12,805 --> 00:32:16,285
Speaker 5: for me to unpack this film as I would normally

606
00:32:16,285 --> 00:32:19,245
Speaker 5: a cone by this film because it's so stuffed full

607
00:32:19,285 --> 00:32:23,525
Speaker 5: of references. It's so it's so layered, but like specifically

608
00:32:24,085 --> 00:32:27,245
Speaker 5: the honesty stuff, I'm you know what it all means.

609
00:32:27,285 --> 00:32:29,805
Speaker 5: I don't know a lot of the time, I just

610
00:32:29,805 --> 00:32:30,485
Speaker 5: know that it works.

611
00:32:30,685 --> 00:32:34,685
Speaker 4: I think it's this incredible act of confidence to assume

612
00:32:34,965 --> 00:32:37,685
Speaker 4: this will all work out, to assume that, like you know,

613
00:32:37,805 --> 00:32:42,005
Speaker 4: a musical set and you know nineteen thirties American South

614
00:32:42,045 --> 00:32:45,605
Speaker 4: packed with historical references. It also kind of overlays the

615
00:32:45,645 --> 00:32:48,565
Speaker 4: Odyssey on top of everything, and it's sort of a

616
00:32:48,565 --> 00:32:51,965
Speaker 4: three Stooges film on top of everything else, and also

617
00:32:52,125 --> 00:32:54,125
Speaker 4: has like that emotional weight too that you're talking about,

618
00:32:54,125 --> 00:32:57,845
Speaker 4: because I think it is a really moving film, especially

619
00:32:57,885 --> 00:33:02,285
Speaker 4: as it goes along. Yeah, it's I guess Hutzp's the word.

620
00:33:02,365 --> 00:33:04,285
Speaker 4: I mean, just just to this, like you know, we

621
00:33:04,325 --> 00:33:06,805
Speaker 4: can pull this off. Just to say nothing of the

622
00:33:06,845 --> 00:33:08,885
Speaker 4: look of the film, which was itself was its own

623
00:33:08,965 --> 00:33:09,725
Speaker 4: kind of experiment.

624
00:33:10,245 --> 00:33:13,045
Speaker 5: As you were saying, Keith, like, I was gonna mention

625
00:33:13,125 --> 00:33:15,885
Speaker 5: that because this is something that gets talked about and

626
00:33:16,165 --> 00:33:18,885
Speaker 5: the Roger Deakons book is just how they were kind

627
00:33:18,885 --> 00:33:20,645
Speaker 5: of flying blind with this film.

628
00:33:20,485 --> 00:33:21,445
Speaker 3: In terms of look of it.

629
00:33:21,565 --> 00:33:24,765
Speaker 4: Right, you're talking, You're talking about reflections.

630
00:33:23,525 --> 00:33:25,685
Speaker 3: Yeah.

631
00:33:25,725 --> 00:33:27,645
Speaker 4: I mean the short version is is is the first

632
00:33:27,685 --> 00:33:31,245
Speaker 4: future film to use a digital intermediary, so shot on

633
00:33:31,325 --> 00:33:34,645
Speaker 4: film and then transfer to digital where you can replate

634
00:33:34,685 --> 00:33:38,365
Speaker 4: the color and such. And it was done in such

635
00:33:38,365 --> 00:33:42,885
Speaker 4: a way that they did all these tests before they

636
00:33:42,925 --> 00:33:46,445
Speaker 4: started filming and the technology wasn't there, but they kind

637
00:33:46,485 --> 00:33:48,325
Speaker 4: of took a gamble that by the time they actually

638
00:33:48,365 --> 00:33:50,725
Speaker 4: had shot the film and we're doing the digital work

639
00:33:50,765 --> 00:33:52,965
Speaker 4: on it, the technology would advance to the point where

640
00:33:52,965 --> 00:33:54,685
Speaker 4: they could pull off what they wanted to do, which

641
00:33:54,685 --> 00:33:56,965
Speaker 4: of course they did, which is just basically to manipulate

642
00:33:57,525 --> 00:34:00,565
Speaker 4: the look of color in every single frame of this

643
00:34:00,645 --> 00:34:03,605
Speaker 4: film to match what they wanted to look like, you know,

644
00:34:03,645 --> 00:34:06,605
Speaker 4: in their head. And it's a remarkable looking I think

645
00:34:06,645 --> 00:34:09,085
Speaker 4: I was struck by that at the time, that it

646
00:34:09,165 --> 00:34:11,044
Speaker 4: just kind of looked like nothing else. I had the time,

647
00:34:11,165 --> 00:34:15,245
Speaker 4: no idea how much it was digital work, and which

648
00:34:15,285 --> 00:34:17,645
Speaker 4: is basically all of it. But it's it's just it's

649
00:34:17,645 --> 00:34:20,685
Speaker 4: a painstaking process. It's basically how now every film is

650
00:34:20,685 --> 00:34:23,165
Speaker 4: made in so much you know, advanced to the point

651
00:34:23,205 --> 00:34:25,685
Speaker 4: where it's it's not such a painsticking process anymore. But

652
00:34:25,725 --> 00:34:27,964
Speaker 4: it was revelatory at the time, and it really does

653
00:34:27,965 --> 00:34:29,485
Speaker 4: look like nothing else out there.

654
00:34:29,645 --> 00:34:32,925
Speaker 2: That includes a scene like the scene with the flood

655
00:34:33,045 --> 00:34:36,685
Speaker 2: and the dapper dan cans floating around. Did you run

656
00:34:36,685 --> 00:34:40,885
Speaker 2: across anything about that looks like it might be entirely digital,

657
00:34:41,005 --> 00:34:43,645
Speaker 2: possibly a montage of elements, like I think the dog

658
00:34:43,765 --> 00:34:46,325
Speaker 2: is real rather than a digital creation, but I don't

659
00:34:46,325 --> 00:34:48,924
Speaker 2: think he's underwater. I don't think a lot of those

660
00:34:48,925 --> 00:34:51,965
Speaker 2: things are our physical objects. Did you talk at all

661
00:34:52,005 --> 00:34:57,005
Speaker 2: about that scene and like the Cohen's embracing like digital

662
00:34:57,165 --> 00:35:00,725
Speaker 2: potentially entirely digital elements in a movie?

663
00:35:01,045 --> 00:35:03,444
Speaker 4: Not really, and I assume that is a digital feat

664
00:35:03,445 --> 00:35:06,845
Speaker 4: Why I can safely say they're not just they not

665
00:35:06,925 --> 00:35:10,925
Speaker 4: drag a dog through the water for this for this film.

666
00:35:11,165 --> 00:35:13,005
Speaker 4: But you get a little bit of that sort of

667
00:35:13,045 --> 00:35:15,045
Speaker 4: like you know, sort of effects. Have you work in

668
00:35:15,165 --> 00:35:18,685
Speaker 4: Big Lebowski. I'm sure there's there's quite a fair amount

669
00:35:18,685 --> 00:35:23,125
Speaker 4: of digital effects and that as well, although no, it's

670
00:35:23,125 --> 00:35:25,005
Speaker 4: part of some of the big stats are like shot

671
00:35:25,005 --> 00:35:28,005
Speaker 4: in an airport and you know, at airport hanger. So

672
00:35:28,205 --> 00:35:31,525
Speaker 4: I don't know that. I can't well, long short answer,

673
00:35:31,605 --> 00:35:33,085
Speaker 4: I can't really answer that definitively.

674
00:35:33,405 --> 00:35:35,805
Speaker 2: Well, I want to steer back to kind of talking

675
00:35:35,805 --> 00:35:38,125
Speaker 2: about well, you know, bringing up the fact that this

676
00:35:38,285 --> 00:35:41,285
Speaker 2: movie was kind of an act of hubris assuming that

677
00:35:41,325 --> 00:35:44,325
Speaker 2: would all hold together. One of the reasons it holds together,

678
00:35:44,845 --> 00:35:46,605
Speaker 2: you know, besides the music and the look of the

679
00:35:46,605 --> 00:35:51,125
Speaker 2: film both being so spectacular and memorable, is George Clooney's

680
00:35:51,125 --> 00:35:54,765
Speaker 2: central performance, which you know, this is a movie full

681
00:35:54,805 --> 00:35:59,365
Speaker 2: of of huckster's and snake oil salesmen, and I think

682
00:35:59,765 --> 00:36:03,885
Speaker 2: almost entirely men except for the sirens. You know, people

683
00:36:03,925 --> 00:36:08,685
Speaker 2: who lie and lie to other people for grifting purposes

684
00:36:09,165 --> 00:36:14,045
Speaker 2: and then heavy handed overseers who punish them for these things.

685
00:36:14,845 --> 00:36:19,085
Speaker 2: Ulysses is a liar, he's con artist, He's a manipulator.

686
00:36:19,885 --> 00:36:20,085
Speaker 4: You know.

687
00:36:20,125 --> 00:36:22,484
Speaker 2: We know that he ended up on a chain gang

688
00:36:22,525 --> 00:36:26,365
Speaker 2: because he was practicing law without being a lawyer. Towards

689
00:36:26,405 --> 00:36:28,165
Speaker 2: the end of the movie, he announces he's got a

690
00:36:28,165 --> 00:36:31,325
Speaker 2: great new scheme to become a dentist without going to

691
00:36:31,365 --> 00:36:34,965
Speaker 2: school for it. He is like, on paper, almost of

692
00:36:35,285 --> 00:36:39,125
Speaker 2: the villain of the piece, you know, he's he kind

693
00:36:39,125 --> 00:36:41,685
Speaker 2: of ruins Pete and Delmar's lives and they tell him so.

694
00:36:42,085 --> 00:36:44,965
Speaker 2: He's also the reason that Sheriff Cooley can track them

695
00:36:45,245 --> 00:36:47,844
Speaker 2: because he's so vain about his hair that he won't

696
00:36:47,845 --> 00:36:51,844
Speaker 2: stop using this palmmade that the dogs can detect. He

697
00:36:52,125 --> 00:36:55,645
Speaker 2: even more so, I would say than Odysseus brings down

698
00:36:55,805 --> 00:36:59,325
Speaker 2: his fate upon them and can only be redeemed through

699
00:36:59,365 --> 00:37:02,845
Speaker 2: an act of you know, begging the gods for forgiveness

700
00:37:03,005 --> 00:37:05,965
Speaker 2: and for intercession. And yet he's still you know, he's

701
00:37:05,965 --> 00:37:07,845
Speaker 2: such a charmer. He's just kind of the hero of

702
00:37:07,885 --> 00:37:12,405
Speaker 2: a piece. How do you balance your sympathies in this movie, like,

703
00:37:12,605 --> 00:37:15,245
Speaker 2: given all of the kind of terrible things that he

704
00:37:15,365 --> 00:37:20,085
Speaker 2: does versus you know, just what a charmer, an inveterate

705
00:37:20,165 --> 00:37:22,325
Speaker 2: charmer he is. How do you end up feeling about

706
00:37:22,325 --> 00:37:22,845
Speaker 2: this character?

707
00:37:23,085 --> 00:37:25,205
Speaker 4: Well, I mean no, justause is complicated too, right, and

708
00:37:25,285 --> 00:37:27,605
Speaker 4: in some of the same ways like he's he's primarily

709
00:37:27,965 --> 00:37:31,685
Speaker 4: he's most notable for coming up with schemes in more

710
00:37:31,845 --> 00:37:35,805
Speaker 4: more than any other quality. And he's certainly and definitely

711
00:37:35,965 --> 00:37:37,605
Speaker 4: we'll definitely beginning of this when we talk about the

712
00:37:37,645 --> 00:37:39,965
Speaker 4: Nolan film. It's like, you know, other people's fate are

713
00:37:40,045 --> 00:37:41,525
Speaker 4: kind of tied up and his in the ways that

714
00:37:41,565 --> 00:37:44,645
Speaker 4: don't always work out well for those those around him.

715
00:37:45,125 --> 00:37:46,645
Speaker 4: So I think in some ways the strongest of the

716
00:37:46,685 --> 00:37:48,845
Speaker 4: strongest parallels are between those two characters.

717
00:37:49,205 --> 00:37:51,725
Speaker 6: And I think in O Brother, Where Art Thou, it's

718
00:37:51,845 --> 00:37:54,405
Speaker 6: just at the point where when you are realizing and

719
00:37:54,445 --> 00:37:57,765
Speaker 6: when Pete and Delmar are realizing, like just how terrible

720
00:37:57,925 --> 00:38:00,605
Speaker 6: Everett has been to them, is kind of when you

721
00:38:00,685 --> 00:38:03,845
Speaker 6: get the reveal of him trying to get back to

722
00:38:03,885 --> 00:38:07,925
Speaker 6: his wife and daughters, which is a fairly significant change

723
00:38:08,085 --> 00:38:11,045
Speaker 6: to the source there. But the fact that like he's

724
00:38:11,125 --> 00:38:13,605
Speaker 6: doing all this to get back to his wife, you know,

725
00:38:14,045 --> 00:38:17,125
Speaker 6: it turns it from a scheme into like a scheme

726
00:38:17,165 --> 00:38:19,925
Speaker 6: with heart or like with emotion behind it. And it

727
00:38:19,965 --> 00:38:23,565
Speaker 6: doesn't change what he's done, but it gives an emotional

728
00:38:23,645 --> 00:38:26,165
Speaker 6: core to it that you can kind of understand, and

729
00:38:26,205 --> 00:38:28,805
Speaker 6: it's romantic, and I think makes everything he's done to

730
00:38:28,805 --> 00:38:31,685
Speaker 6: that point feel a little more palatable in that context.

731
00:38:31,965 --> 00:38:35,005
Speaker 2: For me, it's almost the opposite when we find out

732
00:38:35,485 --> 00:38:39,645
Speaker 2: how he's kind of I mean, he's inadvertently abandoned his

733
00:38:40,085 --> 00:38:43,565
Speaker 2: wife with seven children, But I end up with more

734
00:38:43,605 --> 00:38:47,085
Speaker 2: sympathy for her, you know, seeking out a suitor. He's

735
00:38:47,125 --> 00:38:49,165
Speaker 2: a suitor, and he's bone. He's a suitor. You know,

736
00:38:49,965 --> 00:38:53,085
Speaker 2: she's found somebody who's a bona fide and is has

737
00:38:53,325 --> 00:38:56,325
Speaker 2: like a legitimate job and seems to care about her

738
00:38:56,365 --> 00:38:59,325
Speaker 2: and is willing to take care of this like fractious

739
00:38:59,365 --> 00:39:04,085
Speaker 2: singing brood. It may be romantic then he wants to

740
00:39:04,085 --> 00:39:05,844
Speaker 2: make his way back to her, but I'm not so

741
00:39:05,885 --> 00:39:07,885
Speaker 2: sure that she's better off with him in her life

742
00:39:07,885 --> 00:39:08,245
Speaker 2: at all.

743
00:39:08,565 --> 00:39:08,765
Speaker 3: Yeah.

744
00:39:08,765 --> 00:39:10,964
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm not saying it absolves him at any

745
00:39:11,285 --> 00:39:13,444
Speaker 6: in any way, but it just feels like a more

746
00:39:13,565 --> 00:39:18,525
Speaker 6: human motivation than this lie of money of buried treasure.

747
00:39:18,725 --> 00:39:20,925
Speaker 5: I guess the one thing I will say about ever,

748
00:39:21,205 --> 00:39:25,045
Speaker 5: is this is why you have George Clooney cast in

749
00:39:25,085 --> 00:39:27,845
Speaker 5: that role. I mean, this is something where where you

750
00:39:27,925 --> 00:39:31,725
Speaker 5: might have doubts about this character based on his behavior,

751
00:39:31,765 --> 00:39:34,885
Speaker 5: based on his actions, based on his selfishness, and and

752
00:39:34,885 --> 00:39:39,205
Speaker 5: and how it impacts his two companions. But you know,

753
00:39:39,245 --> 00:39:44,565
Speaker 5: when you have a star of George Clooney's charm and warmth,

754
00:39:44,605 --> 00:39:47,325
Speaker 5: really it forgives a lot and it allows you to

755
00:39:47,405 --> 00:39:51,005
Speaker 5: kind of pivot to his side right along with his

756
00:39:51,045 --> 00:39:53,685
Speaker 5: companions too. I mean, who who who are do have

757
00:39:53,725 --> 00:39:56,325
Speaker 5: their lives ruined but never really leave his side either

758
00:39:56,845 --> 00:39:59,445
Speaker 5: and are with him for this whole adventure as much

759
00:39:59,485 --> 00:40:01,525
Speaker 5: as as much as they can until the law of

760
00:40:01,525 --> 00:40:03,725
Speaker 5: interviews here and there. But uh, and then one of

761
00:40:03,765 --> 00:40:06,565
Speaker 5: them turns into a frog maybe, But doesn't you know

762
00:40:06,645 --> 00:40:08,765
Speaker 5: this is all this is all star power, and and

763
00:40:08,805 --> 00:40:11,805
Speaker 5: I think it's a nice showcase for George Clooney, who's

764
00:40:11,805 --> 00:40:15,205
Speaker 5: not always, not always the most convincing comic actor in

765
00:40:15,205 --> 00:40:17,365
Speaker 5: my in my view, but I think, uh, you know,

766
00:40:17,365 --> 00:40:19,965
Speaker 5: it quits himself well in this movie. And it's somebody

767
00:40:20,005 --> 00:40:23,565
Speaker 5: that the Cohens would turned again to, as you know,

768
00:40:23,685 --> 00:40:25,045
Speaker 5: a comic lead for good reason.

769
00:40:25,205 --> 00:40:27,845
Speaker 2: Well, it sounds like you're saying he's bona fide.

770
00:40:28,005 --> 00:40:28,685
Speaker 4: He's a suitor.

771
00:40:30,205 --> 00:40:32,364
Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break and then well we'll come

772
00:40:32,405 --> 00:40:35,525
Speaker 2: back and get into what I think is the movie's

773
00:40:35,565 --> 00:40:40,525
Speaker 2: biggest departure from Homer being turned into horny Toad or

774
00:40:40,645 --> 00:40:56,725
Speaker 2: not aside yaddy, He ain't our daddy, Oh I ain't

775
00:40:56,765 --> 00:40:57,485
Speaker 2: What is warby?

776
00:40:57,565 --> 00:40:57,805
Speaker 3: Jaals?

777
00:40:58,005 --> 00:40:58,325
Speaker 9: Your name?

778
00:40:58,605 --> 00:40:58,645
Speaker 5: Do?

779
00:40:59,005 --> 00:40:59,085
Speaker 7: No?

780
00:40:59,245 --> 00:40:59,605
Speaker 5: So not?

781
00:40:59,765 --> 00:41:01,884
Speaker 7: Since you got hit by that train, what.

782
00:41:01,845 --> 00:41:03,605
Speaker 3: Are you talking about? I wouldn't hit by any train.

783
00:41:03,805 --> 00:41:06,285
Speaker 7: I'm gonna say she would hit by train blue weak,

784
00:41:06,445 --> 00:41:08,925
Speaker 7: nothing left, just a greasepot.

785
00:41:08,485 --> 00:41:10,085
Speaker 9: Only yelling n damn it.

786
00:41:10,205 --> 00:41:11,565
Speaker 1: I wasn't hit by any train.

787
00:41:11,925 --> 00:41:14,085
Speaker 7: That's right, my malmost got us back to war.

788
00:41:14,525 --> 00:41:15,525
Speaker 3: That's the main name.

789
00:41:16,005 --> 00:41:17,485
Speaker 7: You got a name named daddy.

790
00:41:18,125 --> 00:41:19,325
Speaker 3: Daddy don't have a maiden name.

791
00:41:19,405 --> 00:41:22,845
Speaker 7: She that's your misfortune at right now. Mama's got a

792
00:41:22,885 --> 00:41:23,445
Speaker 7: new boat.

793
00:41:23,805 --> 00:41:27,285
Speaker 9: He's a suitor. Yeah, I heard about that.

794
00:41:27,325 --> 00:41:33,965
Speaker 7: Mama says, if he's bonafide, do you have a ring? Yes, sir,

795
00:41:34,285 --> 00:41:38,364
Speaker 7: big and god it is you. Mama checked it. It's bonafide.

796
00:41:38,565 --> 00:41:39,405
Speaker 9: He's a suitor.

797
00:41:39,565 --> 00:41:40,205
Speaker 3: What's his name?

798
00:41:40,685 --> 00:41:45,245
Speaker 7: Burning d Walter, Uncle Vernet till tomorrow he's.

799
00:41:44,925 --> 00:41:45,845
Speaker 9: Gonna be daddy.

800
00:41:46,765 --> 00:41:48,685
Speaker 3: I am the only daddy you got. I am the

801
00:41:48,805 --> 00:41:50,085
Speaker 3: damn patter families.

802
00:41:50,245 --> 00:41:51,965
Speaker 9: But you ain't bonafide.

803
00:41:52,285 --> 00:41:55,005
Speaker 2: So we talked about, you know, the departures from the

804
00:41:55,045 --> 00:41:57,245
Speaker 2: Odyssey or you know what. This film does pick up

805
00:41:57,245 --> 00:42:00,285
Speaker 2: thematically from the Odyssey, but it doesn't interest me that

806
00:42:00,685 --> 00:42:03,405
Speaker 2: the ending takes such a sharp turn.

807
00:42:03,925 --> 00:42:04,125
Speaker 4: You know.

808
00:42:04,405 --> 00:42:06,245
Speaker 2: The kind of the core of the Odyssey at the

809
00:42:06,325 --> 00:42:09,964
Speaker 2: end is PENELOPEA is loyal to her husband. She's been

810
00:42:10,005 --> 00:42:13,645
Speaker 2: putting off these suitors for more than a decade. She

811
00:42:13,805 --> 00:42:16,885
Speaker 2: is loyally waiting for him to come home, kind of

812
00:42:16,965 --> 00:42:21,285
Speaker 2: like his dogmm. But let's uh, let's go ass over

813
00:42:21,285 --> 00:42:25,364
Speaker 2: that Penny, on the other hand, has made a new

814
00:42:25,405 --> 00:42:29,125
Speaker 2: life for herself that she seems fairly happy with. She

815
00:42:29,165 --> 00:42:32,444
Speaker 2: seems like a kind of a sharpish woman who maybe

816
00:42:32,445 --> 00:42:34,245
Speaker 2: hasn't had a whole lot of happiness in her life,

817
00:42:34,245 --> 00:42:38,085
Speaker 2: definitely not trying to raise seven children on her own.

818
00:42:38,685 --> 00:42:41,365
Speaker 2: One sort of gets the impression that he even fast

819
00:42:41,525 --> 00:42:44,005
Speaker 2: talked her to begin with, and she's kind of had

820
00:42:44,045 --> 00:42:47,844
Speaker 2: a hard life since. So that departure, to me is

821
00:42:48,045 --> 00:42:54,045
Speaker 2: maybe the sort of the biggest thematic swerve in this movie,

822
00:42:53,725 --> 00:42:57,405
Speaker 2: the idea that it isn't about loyalty or about love,

823
00:42:58,205 --> 00:43:02,444
Speaker 2: it's about the kind of the fantasy that he's got

824
00:43:02,445 --> 00:43:05,165
Speaker 2: in his head, or I mean, as he puts it

825
00:43:05,205 --> 00:43:09,285
Speaker 2: on the damn Pawter Familius like, it's like his status

826
00:43:09,445 --> 00:43:12,165
Speaker 2: matters to him as much as anything else. I do

827
00:43:12,205 --> 00:43:14,325
Speaker 2: think that he loves these girls. By the way, the

828
00:43:14,365 --> 00:43:18,925
Speaker 2: difference between you know, I left behind a single, brave

829
00:43:19,085 --> 00:43:24,045
Speaker 2: son who will be king shortly thereafter versus left behind

830
00:43:24,405 --> 00:43:28,685
Speaker 2: seven small children seven small girls, also seems like a

831
00:43:28,725 --> 00:43:31,805
Speaker 2: big departure, but in different ways. Anyway, I'm just curious

832
00:43:31,845 --> 00:43:34,725
Speaker 2: what you make of that that serve in terms of

833
00:43:34,725 --> 00:43:36,805
Speaker 2: what this movie is trying to do differently from the

834
00:43:36,845 --> 00:43:37,844
Speaker 2: Audissey Well.

835
00:43:37,885 --> 00:43:40,565
Speaker 6: I mean, I think it is wrapped up to a

836
00:43:40,605 --> 00:43:43,845
Speaker 6: degree in this being a comedy and sort of the

837
00:43:44,565 --> 00:43:49,165
Speaker 6: comic payoff of him reaching his goal and it being

838
00:43:49,525 --> 00:43:52,205
Speaker 6: more or less denied to him. But it does also

839
00:43:52,645 --> 00:43:56,765
Speaker 6: to a degree tie in to the Odyssey, and I'm

840
00:43:56,805 --> 00:44:01,565
Speaker 6: talking about later at the musical event where they come

841
00:44:01,605 --> 00:44:05,285
Speaker 6: in disguise as a soggy bottom boys and perform and

842
00:44:05,605 --> 00:44:08,965
Speaker 6: Penny sees him, so you get sort of that connection

843
00:44:09,205 --> 00:44:14,045
Speaker 6: to Odysseus returning in disguise and defeating the suitors, you know.

844
00:44:14,165 --> 00:44:17,685
Speaker 6: So it does still kind of track the plot beat

845
00:44:17,725 --> 00:44:21,365
Speaker 6: of the Odyssey. But the character of Penny not hinting

846
00:44:21,485 --> 00:44:24,125
Speaker 6: for him like Penelope, Like I said, I think that

847
00:44:24,245 --> 00:44:28,525
Speaker 6: is just like a Cohen's comedy thing more than you know,

848
00:44:28,645 --> 00:44:33,045
Speaker 6: trying to say anything about the source text that they

849
00:44:33,045 --> 00:44:37,205
Speaker 6: obviously are not trying to say much about to begin with.

850
00:44:37,565 --> 00:44:40,325
Speaker 6: So I think it's like the payoff is Holly Hunter

851
00:44:40,805 --> 00:44:43,605
Speaker 6: brushing him off after this, you know, and not swooning

852
00:44:44,925 --> 00:44:45,965
Speaker 6: in response to him.

853
00:44:46,285 --> 00:44:49,245
Speaker 5: Although it's kind of her personality too, though Penny's is

854
00:44:49,605 --> 00:44:54,325
Speaker 5: to is to you know, be pretty stubborn and practical,

855
00:44:55,245 --> 00:44:58,565
Speaker 5: you know, focused on things that are practical, focusing on

856
00:44:58,645 --> 00:45:01,885
Speaker 5: things that she wants, that she needs. And yeah, but

857
00:45:01,925 --> 00:45:04,445
Speaker 5: at the same time, there's a playfulness to her as

858
00:45:04,485 --> 00:45:07,205
Speaker 5: well in that relationship, even when she even when you

859
00:45:07,245 --> 00:45:09,605
Speaker 5: get to the issue with the need to find the ring.

860
00:45:10,245 --> 00:45:11,725
Speaker 5: And the other other thing, of course, is that you

861
00:45:11,725 --> 00:45:14,125
Speaker 5: don't you just don't spend time with her and the

862
00:45:14,565 --> 00:45:15,725
Speaker 5: suitors or anything like that.

863
00:45:15,725 --> 00:45:18,085
Speaker 3: That she didn't even appear until much much later.

864
00:45:18,965 --> 00:45:20,925
Speaker 5: And I think it's just the Coens kind of make

865
00:45:21,245 --> 00:45:24,005
Speaker 5: a choice in terms of they've only got so much

866
00:45:24,045 --> 00:45:26,565
Speaker 5: they can put into this movie, and I think it's

867
00:45:26,605 --> 00:45:28,844
Speaker 5: a it's a matter of pace to kind of just

868
00:45:29,285 --> 00:45:34,285
Speaker 5: hold this, you know, focused entirely on the journey of

869
00:45:34,325 --> 00:45:36,765
Speaker 5: the of the hero's journey, and then and then just

870
00:45:37,205 --> 00:45:38,645
Speaker 5: bring her in as part of the sort of the

871
00:45:39,125 --> 00:45:40,205
Speaker 5: destination at the end.

872
00:45:40,525 --> 00:45:44,205
Speaker 4: I think also, I mean their reunion and this is

873
00:45:44,605 --> 00:45:46,525
Speaker 4: the very end, but also just the whole relationship is

874
00:45:46,565 --> 00:45:49,165
Speaker 4: part of what makes this film moving to me. And

875
00:45:49,205 --> 00:45:51,844
Speaker 4: I think one thing that Hunter does so well and

876
00:45:51,885 --> 00:45:54,005
Speaker 4: in the script as well, it gives a sense that,

877
00:45:54,125 --> 00:45:56,205
Speaker 4: you know, all things being equal, she would love to

878
00:45:56,205 --> 00:45:59,404
Speaker 4: be with this man, but you know, all things are

879
00:45:59,405 --> 00:46:01,685
Speaker 4: not equal, and there are practicalities to consider it, and

880
00:46:01,725 --> 00:46:03,965
Speaker 4: maybe you know, this might be a hard choice for

881
00:46:04,005 --> 00:46:06,565
Speaker 4: her to turn them away, but it's also maybe the

882
00:46:06,645 --> 00:46:10,565
Speaker 4: right thing to do for her brood of girls basically,

883
00:46:11,405 --> 00:46:13,445
Speaker 4: So it's a nice it's a nice bit of tension there.

884
00:46:13,445 --> 00:46:13,765
Speaker 4: I think.

885
00:46:13,885 --> 00:46:19,165
Speaker 6: I just love Hunters like courches her facial expressions during

886
00:46:19,405 --> 00:46:23,485
Speaker 6: that performance the Soggy Bottom Boys, and she's just like

887
00:46:23,885 --> 00:46:25,325
Speaker 6: you can tell she loves that man.

888
00:46:25,525 --> 00:46:28,245
Speaker 5: You know that expression when when he when he kind

889
00:46:28,245 --> 00:46:32,085
Speaker 5: of like tugs at his little beard, that she's just

890
00:46:32,125 --> 00:46:32,805
Speaker 5: so delighted.

891
00:46:32,965 --> 00:46:35,205
Speaker 3: I love. That's one of my favorite like small bullets

892
00:46:35,205 --> 00:46:35,845
Speaker 3: of the movie.

893
00:46:36,605 --> 00:46:39,365
Speaker 2: And not to mention the fact that her suitor is

894
00:46:39,445 --> 00:46:43,885
Speaker 2: named Vernon t. Waldrip. He's got drip right there in

895
00:46:43,925 --> 00:46:47,325
Speaker 2: the name, Like he's he is not meant to be

896
00:46:47,685 --> 00:46:50,725
Speaker 2: a an aspirational figure. And at the same time he

897
00:46:50,845 --> 00:46:53,685
Speaker 2: is capable of kicking Ulysses butt like he's a he's

898
00:46:53,685 --> 00:46:56,565
Speaker 2: a better fighter, and uh, you know he's bona fide.

899
00:46:57,045 --> 00:47:02,285
Speaker 2: He's just he's he's a smart man. He's also principled,

900
00:47:02,645 --> 00:47:05,165
Speaker 2: as we see when Pappy tries to subbort him and

901
00:47:05,525 --> 00:47:08,125
Speaker 2: lure him over to the other side. He's not the

902
00:47:08,165 --> 00:47:12,685
Speaker 2: worst man. Uh, he gets the short end of the stick, Carroll, but.

903
00:47:12,805 --> 00:47:15,325
Speaker 3: He sticks He sticks by his candidate potential.

904
00:47:16,645 --> 00:47:18,925
Speaker 6: Yeah, gonna say, there is the matter of what side

905
00:47:18,965 --> 00:47:20,245
Speaker 6: he is on to begin.

906
00:47:20,045 --> 00:47:23,845
Speaker 4: With, are kind of bad there for his candidate.

907
00:47:24,365 --> 00:47:27,404
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good segue and something I really wanted

908
00:47:27,445 --> 00:47:30,404
Speaker 2: to talk about, which is just this movie's view of politics.

909
00:47:30,845 --> 00:47:35,444
Speaker 2: We have two front runners for governor of Mississippi. They're

910
00:47:35,445 --> 00:47:39,165
Speaker 2: both corrupt, they're both scheming. One of them is a

911
00:47:39,725 --> 00:47:44,245
Speaker 2: u klu Klux Klan leader. One of them is well Charles,

912
00:47:45,085 --> 00:47:48,005
Speaker 2: which kind of speaks for itself, doesn't have a whole

913
00:47:48,045 --> 00:47:52,045
Speaker 2: lot of ideas. He is in bed with the interests.

914
00:47:53,125 --> 00:47:56,125
Speaker 2: I love that that speech, but you know, it's it's

915
00:47:56,245 --> 00:48:01,525
Speaker 2: very clear that this you know, fat indolent man and

916
00:48:01,565 --> 00:48:04,445
Speaker 2: his fat indolent family, who do not appear to be

917
00:48:04,605 --> 00:48:07,605
Speaker 2: very bright but are very good at taking advantage of

918
00:48:07,685 --> 00:48:09,805
Speaker 2: things when they see them in front of them, are

919
00:48:09,805 --> 00:48:11,925
Speaker 2: not doing a whole lot for the people of Mississippi.

920
00:48:12,405 --> 00:48:17,565
Speaker 2: And when a man comes along with a diminutive sidekick

921
00:48:19,605 --> 00:48:24,685
Speaker 2: that enables a kind of a flashy campaign slogan, you

922
00:48:24,725 --> 00:48:27,045
Speaker 2: know he he doesn't really have a ground to stand

923
00:48:27,085 --> 00:48:31,165
Speaker 2: on anymore. Everything about the politics in this movie is

924
00:48:31,245 --> 00:48:37,005
Speaker 2: about manipulation, about you know, dismissing people's actual needs and

925
00:48:37,045 --> 00:48:40,005
Speaker 2: opinions in favor of us, like snake oil salesman kind

926
00:48:40,005 --> 00:48:44,125
Speaker 2: of line. The campaigns are all built around gimmicks and bandwagoning.

927
00:48:44,405 --> 00:48:48,365
Speaker 2: And then we have the use of the mass media,

928
00:48:48,645 --> 00:48:52,725
Speaker 2: which is to say, driving around on the back of

929
00:48:52,725 --> 00:48:56,005
Speaker 2: a truck playing music, standing up on the bandstand with

930
00:48:56,365 --> 00:48:59,685
Speaker 2: a little man with a broom, and going out over

931
00:48:59,765 --> 00:49:03,844
Speaker 2: the radio. There's nothing positive about politics here at all,

932
00:49:04,045 --> 00:49:07,205
Speaker 2: or about politicians. Is there is.

933
00:49:07,205 --> 00:49:10,325
Speaker 5: A well run campaign? Now He's think think about that

934
00:49:10,725 --> 00:49:11,444
Speaker 5: line all the time.

935
00:49:11,485 --> 00:49:13,005
Speaker 3: It's a well run campaign.

936
00:49:13,365 --> 00:49:16,405
Speaker 5: I mean, I think there's a certain amount of affection

937
00:49:16,525 --> 00:49:19,205
Speaker 5: that you, at least I developed for Charles Jerning and

938
00:49:19,285 --> 00:49:22,765
Speaker 5: his his kind of shameless opportunism, you know.

939
00:49:23,525 --> 00:49:25,325
Speaker 3: I mean it's he's.

940
00:49:25,005 --> 00:49:28,085
Speaker 5: He is corrupt, He definitely, he's he's uh, you know,

941
00:49:28,125 --> 00:49:30,525
Speaker 5: an entrenched, very typical politician.

942
00:49:30,565 --> 00:49:32,325
Speaker 3: He is not trying to run as an outsider. He's

943
00:49:32,405 --> 00:49:35,605
Speaker 3: very much an insider. Uh. He rejects the idea of

944
00:49:35,725 --> 00:49:37,845
Speaker 3: the can't get him any that reform. He's not going

945
00:49:37,925 --> 00:49:40,485
Speaker 3: to be to get that reform because he's not that

946
00:49:40,565 --> 00:49:42,765
Speaker 3: kind of candidate. All that stuff is the incumbent.

947
00:49:43,325 --> 00:49:45,525
Speaker 5: He's the company. Can't really do there, he can't be

948
00:49:45,565 --> 00:49:48,805
Speaker 5: a reform KTA as the incomvent. All that stuff is

949
00:49:48,845 --> 00:49:53,085
Speaker 5: really is tremendous fun, but it is a film that is,

950
00:49:53,605 --> 00:49:56,165
Speaker 5: you know, pretty cynical about politics, and I think if

951
00:49:56,205 --> 00:49:59,365
Speaker 5: you're if you're really thinking about if you're getting more serious,

952
00:49:59,405 --> 00:50:02,205
Speaker 5: I guess even than the film gets about the time

953
00:50:02,245 --> 00:50:05,885
Speaker 5: period and people being in need, it being the Great Depression,

954
00:50:06,245 --> 00:50:09,725
Speaker 5: I think you could probably look at this race and

955
00:50:10,045 --> 00:50:14,005
Speaker 5: feel like neither of these gentlemen aren't going to be

956
00:50:14,125 --> 00:50:16,925
Speaker 5: able to do anything to solve anyone's problems. That they can,

957
00:50:17,285 --> 00:50:20,924
Speaker 5: you know, try to campaign on reform, which people would

958
00:50:21,005 --> 00:50:23,725
Speaker 5: would want, but what is that going to ultimately mean

959
00:50:24,245 --> 00:50:25,245
Speaker 5: in practical terms?

960
00:50:25,485 --> 00:50:27,565
Speaker 3: The film is pretty cynical about that.

961
00:50:27,485 --> 00:50:30,125
Speaker 4: And it's certainly a lesser to evil situation because I'm

962
00:50:30,165 --> 00:50:31,805
Speaker 4: going to vote for the person who's not in the

963
00:50:31,845 --> 00:50:38,565
Speaker 4: clan in the situation, you know, maybe Craven versus actively evil.

964
00:50:39,605 --> 00:50:43,884
Speaker 4: Given the choice, I'll go with Craven every time. But yeah,

965
00:50:43,925 --> 00:50:46,725
Speaker 4: it is not a flattering portrait.

966
00:50:47,125 --> 00:50:52,205
Speaker 2: And in the end, despite his well run campaign also

967
00:50:52,285 --> 00:50:54,685
Speaker 2: just not very savvy. You know, he gets up and

968
00:50:54,725 --> 00:50:58,565
Speaker 2: outs himself as a belligerent racist because he just assumes

969
00:50:58,565 --> 00:51:01,085
Speaker 2: that everybody's going to be on a side. Like, of course,

970
00:51:01,125 --> 00:51:05,485
Speaker 2: the fact that there's misagenation happening up on stage a

971
00:51:05,525 --> 00:51:08,085
Speaker 2: word he does not seem to know what it actually means.

972
00:51:08,205 --> 00:51:11,805
Speaker 2: The band is integrated because one of their members is black.

973
00:51:12,445 --> 00:51:15,525
Speaker 2: He just assumes is going to turn a group of

974
00:51:15,725 --> 00:51:20,085
Speaker 2: cheering fans into their enemies, even though they can see

975
00:51:20,085 --> 00:51:23,645
Speaker 2: that perfectly well for themselves. He just he has enough

976
00:51:23,645 --> 00:51:28,165
Speaker 2: of a deep seated racism that he assumes that that

977
00:51:28,325 --> 00:51:32,365
Speaker 2: is the natural order of business, which is very strange

978
00:51:32,365 --> 00:51:36,045
Speaker 2: for a guy who has to do his business well masked.

979
00:51:36,325 --> 00:51:38,925
Speaker 5: I would say that Keith saying that he would not

980
00:51:39,045 --> 00:51:41,365
Speaker 5: vote for the person who's associated with the Klan is

981
00:51:41,645 --> 00:51:45,045
Speaker 5: also a very twenty twenty sixth sentiment true.

982
00:51:46,405 --> 00:51:53,685
Speaker 6: Well, and also the universality of everyone responding to Stokes

983
00:51:53,725 --> 00:51:59,165
Speaker 6: outing himself with universal horror feels maybe a little optimistic

984
00:51:59,405 --> 00:52:00,925
Speaker 6: for the time and place.

985
00:52:01,165 --> 00:52:04,485
Speaker 2: But for when it's worth I definitely don't see them

986
00:52:04,565 --> 00:52:07,405
Speaker 2: responding in that way, because how dare you be racist

987
00:52:07,405 --> 00:52:13,165
Speaker 2: against this nice fellow who's playing music so much as

988
00:52:13,445 --> 00:52:16,525
Speaker 2: why are you stopping? Yeah, you know, us from having fun?

989
00:52:17,085 --> 00:52:17,325
Speaker 4: Right.

990
00:52:17,605 --> 00:52:20,085
Speaker 5: If anything, if you want to be optimistic, it's about

991
00:52:20,405 --> 00:52:24,245
Speaker 5: the transferm orimative power of song where you know, to

992
00:52:24,765 --> 00:52:27,925
Speaker 5: be people. Really, he misreads the moment in such a

993
00:52:27,965 --> 00:52:30,485
Speaker 5: significant way because this is this, this song is a

994
00:52:30,525 --> 00:52:34,125
Speaker 5: sensation and having the actual Soggy Bottom Boys make a

995
00:52:34,125 --> 00:52:37,365
Speaker 5: surprise appearance at this event and play it after, you know,

996
00:52:37,405 --> 00:52:40,765
Speaker 5: being sort of shrouded in mystery, is a thrilling moment

997
00:52:40,805 --> 00:52:42,885
Speaker 5: for them. And I think a moment that, you know,

998
00:52:43,005 --> 00:52:46,845
Speaker 5: from a filmmaking perspective, is just so galvanizing and wonderful.

999
00:52:47,125 --> 00:52:50,405
Speaker 5: You know that any disruption to that, you know, is

1000
00:52:50,805 --> 00:52:51,845
Speaker 5: feels criminal.

1001
00:52:52,165 --> 00:52:55,005
Speaker 2: We should talk about the music in general, especially you

1002
00:52:55,045 --> 00:52:57,085
Speaker 2: know that that was you know where my where my

1003
00:52:57,165 --> 00:53:00,645
Speaker 2: keynote focused on, kind of where the fandom initially for

1004
00:53:00,725 --> 00:53:04,325
Speaker 2: this film focused. I'm curious what stands out for you.

1005
00:53:04,405 --> 00:53:08,245
Speaker 2: Obviously Man of Constance Sorrow was was the big banger hit.

1006
00:53:08,885 --> 00:53:11,965
Speaker 2: But there's there's kind of like wall to wall, as

1007
00:53:12,005 --> 00:53:15,445
Speaker 2: they say, old dimie music in here, and it covers

1008
00:53:15,685 --> 00:53:20,364
Speaker 2: a pretty wide range of grounds in terms of a

1009
00:53:20,405 --> 00:53:23,645
Speaker 2: specific musical roots that it's coming from what sticks with.

1010
00:53:23,645 --> 00:53:26,484
Speaker 6: You before like getting into a couple of like specific songs,

1011
00:53:26,485 --> 00:53:30,165
Speaker 6: I do just have to say, like in the pantheon

1012
00:53:30,485 --> 00:53:33,605
Speaker 6: of songs written for films that are supposed to be

1013
00:53:33,645 --> 00:53:36,685
Speaker 6: a hit in the film and are actually a banger,

1014
00:53:36,805 --> 00:53:39,165
Speaker 6: like it's like this and that thing you do, and

1015
00:53:39,205 --> 00:53:41,285
Speaker 6: that's like they're on the same level.

1016
00:53:41,885 --> 00:53:44,605
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really good point. I've had a long

1017
00:53:44,685 --> 00:53:50,245
Speaker 2: standing grudge just in in terms of any movie that

1018
00:53:50,405 --> 00:53:55,005
Speaker 2: claims a particular piece of art is vitally important and

1019
00:53:55,325 --> 00:53:58,085
Speaker 2: moving for everybody. As soon as they show you what

1020
00:53:58,125 --> 00:54:02,005
Speaker 2: that art is, you know, whether it's Mark's film and

1021
00:54:02,125 --> 00:54:08,405
Speaker 2: Rent or Roger's song in Rent, or you know, Miss

1022
00:54:08,645 --> 00:54:13,245
Speaker 2: the the Opus itself or gosh, just just about any

1023
00:54:13,685 --> 00:54:16,005
Speaker 2: example you can think of, you end up in a

1024
00:54:16,045 --> 00:54:18,645
Speaker 2: place of all that for this and but you're right,

1025
00:54:19,405 --> 00:54:22,205
Speaker 2: you can easily see why and of constanceerro is an

1026
00:54:22,205 --> 00:54:24,805
Speaker 2: in universe hit as well as a real world hit.

1027
00:54:25,405 --> 00:54:27,884
Speaker 4: Not on the level of metaclouset Sory, but I do

1028
00:54:28,005 --> 00:54:30,605
Speaker 4: the recent John Carney from power Ballad has a song

1029
00:54:30,685 --> 00:54:32,805
Speaker 4: that you will believe is a top forty could be

1030
00:54:32,845 --> 00:54:35,085
Speaker 4: a top forty hit on it as well. One thing

1031
00:54:35,085 --> 00:54:37,045
Speaker 4: I love about the soundtrack is it's just how what

1032
00:54:37,165 --> 00:54:41,485
Speaker 4: a rich array of music you get, from gospel to

1033
00:54:41,645 --> 00:54:45,325
Speaker 4: blues to bluegrass and traditional folk and and just appellation

1034
00:54:45,445 --> 00:54:47,605
Speaker 4: music and it all fits together so well, which I

1035
00:54:47,645 --> 00:54:49,925
Speaker 4: think is part of what's going on with the film

1036
00:54:49,965 --> 00:54:52,965
Speaker 4: as well, because there's so many different types of characters

1037
00:54:52,965 --> 00:54:55,885
Speaker 4: to so many like little subcultures you visit over the

1038
00:54:55,925 --> 00:54:59,165
Speaker 4: course of this film, and I think the way the

1039
00:54:59,245 --> 00:55:03,925
Speaker 4: races meet in music is certainly another sub you know,

1040
00:55:03,965 --> 00:55:06,685
Speaker 4: strand of this film that gets explored, and that's all

1041
00:55:07,165 --> 00:55:10,205
Speaker 4: over the soundtrack as well. Yeah, it's it's it is.

1042
00:55:10,405 --> 00:55:13,445
Speaker 4: So it's crazy to me in a way that it

1043
00:55:13,525 --> 00:55:15,805
Speaker 4: was such a it was a huge hit, I mean

1044
00:55:15,845 --> 00:55:18,445
Speaker 4: a huge popular hit, the film and also the soundtrack,

1045
00:55:18,925 --> 00:55:23,725
Speaker 4: and the president for that is what like this, I

1046
00:55:23,725 --> 00:55:26,245
Speaker 4: mean maybe a little bit like so like American Graffiti

1047
00:55:26,565 --> 00:55:30,205
Speaker 4: resurfacing all these like, you know, hits from at that point,

1048
00:55:30,285 --> 00:55:33,085
Speaker 4: not even fifteen years ago, but just sort of like

1049
00:55:33,245 --> 00:55:36,165
Speaker 4: here's a whole bunch of great roots the American songs,

1050
00:55:36,605 --> 00:55:39,325
Speaker 4: and you're going to love them, and then the America

1051
00:55:39,365 --> 00:55:42,325
Speaker 4: public did. It's really quite extraordinary.

1052
00:55:42,565 --> 00:55:44,725
Speaker 2: One of the thing that fascinates me about the music

1053
00:55:44,725 --> 00:55:48,125
Speaker 2: in this film is just the way it's kind of

1054
00:55:48,165 --> 00:55:50,924
Speaker 2: all split up in time, you know, because of where

1055
00:55:50,925 --> 00:55:54,365
Speaker 2: some of these songs originated versus like Man of Constant

1056
00:55:54,405 --> 00:55:57,685
Speaker 2: Sorrow itself I believe was first first put down in

1057
00:55:57,765 --> 00:56:02,885
Speaker 2: published form in nineteen eighteen, if I remember correctly. But

1058
00:56:03,045 --> 00:56:06,404
Speaker 2: the version that they're drawing is so that that would

1059
00:56:06,445 --> 00:56:09,404
Speaker 2: potentially be the version that they're drawing on in the movie,

1060
00:56:09,405 --> 00:56:12,405
Speaker 2: which takes place in thirty seven, or it was first

1061
00:56:12,485 --> 00:56:16,685
Speaker 2: recorded in twenty seven, which might have been where they're

1062
00:56:16,725 --> 00:56:21,005
Speaker 2: drawing from. But Burnett was drawing on a popular verse

1063
00:56:21,445 --> 00:56:25,404
Speaker 2: from the fifties, so you know, decades after this movie

1064
00:56:25,445 --> 00:56:29,885
Speaker 2: takes place. So there's a lot of that where you know,

1065
00:56:30,005 --> 00:56:34,565
Speaker 2: in some ways, when Burnett was doing the arrangements for

1066
00:56:34,965 --> 00:56:38,325
Speaker 2: these songs, he was drawing, you know, in some cases

1067
00:56:38,565 --> 00:56:40,885
Speaker 2: on things going back to the nineteen tens and in

1068
00:56:40,885 --> 00:56:43,445
Speaker 2: some cases things that were a lot more recent, but

1069
00:56:43,605 --> 00:56:46,565
Speaker 2: were themselves drawing back on these origins. And it kind

1070
00:56:46,565 --> 00:56:49,005
Speaker 2: of goes back to what Geneviet was saying about the

1071
00:56:49,325 --> 00:56:52,404
Speaker 2: folk tradition and the oral tradition. A lot of these

1072
00:56:52,445 --> 00:56:57,325
Speaker 2: songs are things that had cycled and been performed and

1073
00:56:57,365 --> 00:57:02,285
Speaker 2: recorded and arranged in different ways in different eras, but

1074
00:57:02,365 --> 00:57:06,245
Speaker 2: he's reaching back for a lot of those different eras.

1075
00:57:06,805 --> 00:57:09,045
Speaker 2: You know, if you track sort of the history of

1076
00:57:09,045 --> 00:57:11,405
Speaker 2: some of these songs, it's kind of all over the

1077
00:57:11,485 --> 00:57:15,765
Speaker 2: musical map, even if the earliest origin points for a

1078
00:57:15,765 --> 00:57:18,605
Speaker 2: lot of these songs was in around the same place.

1079
00:57:19,005 --> 00:57:21,685
Speaker 6: I also, I really just quickly want to call out

1080
00:57:21,685 --> 00:57:25,765
Speaker 6: a couple of a cappella numbers, including Poe Lazarus, which

1081
00:57:25,805 --> 00:57:31,685
Speaker 6: begins the film what the Chain Gang is seeing, specifically

1082
00:57:31,685 --> 00:57:35,085
Speaker 6: the use of pickaxes as percussion in it. One of

1083
00:57:35,085 --> 00:57:38,325
Speaker 6: the things I found interesting on this watch is the

1084
00:57:38,365 --> 00:57:44,165
Speaker 6: way that even non musical sequences have a really specific

1085
00:57:44,245 --> 00:57:47,685
Speaker 6: rhythm to it. I'm thinking of the line profit on

1086
00:57:47,845 --> 00:57:51,605
Speaker 6: the railcar when he's you know, giving his speech, and

1087
00:57:51,645 --> 00:57:56,045
Speaker 6: you have this steady metronome of the I don't even

1088
00:57:56,085 --> 00:57:58,445
Speaker 6: know what you call the little pump handle thing that

1089
00:57:58,765 --> 00:58:03,805
Speaker 6: he's using, you know, And again the pickaxes, like I mentioned,

1090
00:58:03,845 --> 00:58:08,045
Speaker 6: So there's just like a very deep down musicality to

1091
00:58:08,165 --> 00:58:12,405
Speaker 6: the way this movie moves and sounds even when there

1092
00:58:12,445 --> 00:58:17,245
Speaker 6: is not actual music happening, which I find really satisfying.

1093
00:58:17,885 --> 00:58:20,445
Speaker 5: Yeah, the cones are the one of the filmmakers where

1094
00:58:20,445 --> 00:58:23,365
Speaker 5: you notice, like who the sound editor is, It's like

1095
00:58:23,445 --> 00:58:25,885
Speaker 5: Skip Lifsa is the guy. You know, Skip Lifsay is

1096
00:58:25,925 --> 00:58:28,565
Speaker 5: a name that people know because it's also a great name.

1097
00:58:28,765 --> 00:58:32,525
Speaker 5: I mean, that's yeah. Now, I remember that from back

1098
00:58:32,525 --> 00:58:35,005
Speaker 5: in college. There was a friend of mine undergrad who

1099
00:58:35,045 --> 00:58:38,485
Speaker 5: actually went on to become a sound editor in Hollywood

1100
00:58:38,565 --> 00:58:40,805
Speaker 5: who was just worship a Skip Livesay.

1101
00:58:40,885 --> 00:58:42,165
Speaker 3: So there you go.

1102
00:58:42,685 --> 00:58:45,445
Speaker 2: Yeah, I suppose when we're talking about kind of standout

1103
00:58:45,445 --> 00:58:48,285
Speaker 2: scenes and songs, I mean, for me, it's nobody but

1104
00:58:48,405 --> 00:58:52,365
Speaker 2: The Baby, which I listened to just obsessively on repeat

1105
00:58:52,645 --> 00:58:56,205
Speaker 2: in two thousand when it came out, because the harmonies

1106
00:58:56,245 --> 00:58:59,565
Speaker 2: and the way the three lines kind of wind in

1107
00:58:59,605 --> 00:59:01,325
Speaker 2: and out of each other, and it turned me into

1108
00:59:01,325 --> 00:59:03,925
Speaker 2: a big you know, Dallas and Kraus and Union Station

1109
00:59:04,085 --> 00:59:08,365
Speaker 2: and Gillian Welsh fan. I listened to a lot of

1110
00:59:08,405 --> 00:59:10,885
Speaker 2: this music in the year two thousand. But one of

1111
00:59:10,925 --> 00:59:13,885
Speaker 2: the songs, going back to the a cappella idea that

1112
00:59:13,965 --> 00:59:17,725
Speaker 2: just really stands out for me is O Death, which

1113
00:59:18,125 --> 00:59:22,245
Speaker 2: is kind of an interesting point. When t Bone Burnette

1114
00:59:22,405 --> 00:59:26,285
Speaker 2: was looking at arrangements of Man of Constance Sorrow, the

1115
00:59:26,405 --> 00:59:29,245
Speaker 2: version that he drew on most was recorded by the

1116
00:59:29,285 --> 00:59:34,045
Speaker 2: Stanley Brothers in the fifties, and they Ralph Stanley of

1117
00:59:34,125 --> 00:59:38,525
Speaker 2: the Stanley Brothers actually appears in the soundtrack on O Death,

1118
00:59:39,085 --> 00:59:42,245
Speaker 2: and he was the one that persuaded the Cohens to

1119
00:59:42,405 --> 00:59:44,885
Speaker 2: let him do an a cappella version of it for

1120
00:59:45,365 --> 00:59:49,005
Speaker 2: the Big Clan March number. Another fun thing about that

1121
00:59:49,165 --> 00:59:53,325
Speaker 2: sequence in particular is they got a marching group, like

1122
00:59:53,405 --> 00:59:58,845
Speaker 2: a coordinated, a like rhythm marching group, I guess to

1123
00:59:58,965 --> 01:00:03,845
Speaker 2: portray the clan for those you know, the distance scenes

1124
01:00:03,885 --> 01:00:06,245
Speaker 2: where you're seeing them, you know, marching and arranging themselves

1125
01:00:06,645 --> 01:00:07,085
Speaker 2: a lot.

1126
01:00:06,925 --> 01:00:08,645
Speaker 6: Of another percussive element.

1127
01:00:08,925 --> 01:00:12,005
Speaker 2: Which god, you know. One of the things that I

1128
01:00:12,045 --> 01:00:15,165
Speaker 2: read the Cohens just kind of talking about the history

1129
01:00:15,165 --> 01:00:17,405
Speaker 2: of this movie was that before they had on the

1130
01:00:17,445 --> 01:00:20,125
Speaker 2: Odyssey connection, they were thinking about Moore's Wizard of Oz.

1131
01:00:21,965 --> 01:00:24,245
Speaker 2: That sequence just feels so Wizard of Oz to me.

1132
01:00:24,285 --> 01:00:29,325
Speaker 2: They really are practically going, but instead we have Ralph

1133
01:00:29,325 --> 01:00:33,805
Speaker 2: Stanley singing O Death. But the synchronizing marching group that

1134
01:00:33,845 --> 01:00:36,485
Speaker 2: they that they use like an existing group, A significant

1135
01:00:36,525 --> 01:00:41,125
Speaker 2: percentage of those people were black, and they talk about

1136
01:00:41,485 --> 01:00:43,525
Speaker 2: just seeing, you know, a bunch of black men like

1137
01:00:43,845 --> 01:00:50,125
Speaker 2: lined up for like the porta potties in between sequences,

1138
01:00:50,445 --> 01:00:52,765
Speaker 2: you know, wearing full clan robes and with their clan

1139
01:00:53,925 --> 01:00:56,045
Speaker 2: hoods tucked under their arm and just saying, Okay, this

1140
01:00:56,125 --> 01:01:00,045
Speaker 2: is really weird. We acknowledge that this is really weird.

1141
01:01:01,285 --> 01:01:02,525
Speaker 6: Movie magic well.

1142
01:01:02,525 --> 01:01:04,725
Speaker 2: As always, there's a ton more to talk about in

1143
01:01:04,765 --> 01:01:09,085
Speaker 2: this film, but we're already running along thanks like the

1144
01:01:09,485 --> 01:01:13,045
Speaker 2: sequence where we caught up with what everybody's watching. Let

1145
01:01:13,285 --> 01:01:15,685
Speaker 2: just as a quick round robin and then we'll get

1146
01:01:15,685 --> 01:01:17,205
Speaker 2: to a lot of the rest of the things we

1147
01:01:17,245 --> 01:01:19,005
Speaker 2: need to talk about in our next episode when we

1148
01:01:19,005 --> 01:01:22,565
Speaker 2: talk about connections. But before we fully transition out of

1149
01:01:23,165 --> 01:01:26,165
Speaker 2: a brother, just give me a favorite thing, a favorite

1150
01:01:26,205 --> 01:01:31,485
Speaker 2: shot or character moment, scene, just anything that really sticks

1151
01:01:31,565 --> 01:01:32,405
Speaker 2: with you in this film.

1152
01:01:32,565 --> 01:01:35,045
Speaker 6: I wouldn't commit to this is like my favorite scene,

1153
01:01:35,445 --> 01:01:38,965
Speaker 6: like forever and ever, but in this moment, not even

1154
01:01:38,965 --> 01:01:41,605
Speaker 6: a scene, but the line that comes to mind first

1155
01:01:41,925 --> 01:01:45,085
Speaker 6: is I'm going to ru n n o f T,

1156
01:01:46,845 --> 01:01:49,365
Speaker 6: And specifically like the way it comes back during the

1157
01:01:49,525 --> 01:01:53,645
Speaker 6: escape sequence when it's spelled out earlier in front of

1158
01:01:53,685 --> 01:01:56,765
Speaker 6: the kid, and then the kid saves the guys and

1159
01:01:56,805 --> 01:01:58,645
Speaker 6: says he's going to r you n an o ft

1160
01:01:58,805 --> 01:02:02,605
Speaker 6: It's just a great little comedic callback and one of many, many,

1161
01:02:02,645 --> 01:02:05,405
Speaker 6: many great lines in this film that stick with me.

1162
01:02:05,645 --> 01:02:08,645
Speaker 4: You know what tickled me this time was when Ulysses

1163
01:02:08,685 --> 01:02:11,645
Speaker 4: gets in the fight with a Walldrip in The wool

1164
01:02:11,685 --> 01:02:15,085
Speaker 4: Worst and they're thrown out and he says, he's unclear

1165
01:02:15,125 --> 01:02:19,885
Speaker 4: if it's just this wool Worst at this point.

1166
01:02:21,285 --> 01:02:23,445
Speaker 3: Uh, for me, it has to be.

1167
01:02:23,925 --> 01:02:24,045
Speaker 4: Uh.

1168
01:02:24,525 --> 01:02:30,685
Speaker 5: The little dance that Charle Sterning does, it's just it's

1169
01:02:30,725 --> 01:02:33,445
Speaker 5: a wonderful It's a wonderful dance. And there's something about

1170
01:02:33,805 --> 01:02:36,325
Speaker 5: how the action, how just the look I guess that

1171
01:02:36,365 --> 01:02:39,925
Speaker 5: he's given to by by Everett at that moment when

1172
01:02:40,205 --> 01:02:42,765
Speaker 5: whenever at all pauses that he's just taking he's he's

1173
01:02:42,805 --> 01:02:44,765
Speaker 5: having his moment to come on stage, and he just

1174
01:02:44,805 --> 01:02:46,565
Speaker 5: gives us a magnificent dance.

1175
01:02:46,605 --> 01:02:48,205
Speaker 3: I just love Charles Darning in this movie.

1176
01:02:48,245 --> 01:02:51,045
Speaker 2: We really talked nearly enough about Tim Blake Nelson and

1177
01:02:51,165 --> 01:02:54,485
Speaker 2: John Triturea in this movie, but shout out to the

1178
01:02:54,525 --> 01:02:58,725
Speaker 2: little knee dance that John Turtruro does on stage during

1179
01:02:58,765 --> 01:03:04,765
Speaker 2: the Sagobottom Boys performance, as well as as Darnings and Uh,

1180
01:03:04,965 --> 01:03:06,805
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's a little hard to beat Clooney

1181
01:03:07,125 --> 01:03:09,645
Speaker 2: repeatedly talking about how he's a nappered in man. But

1182
01:03:09,725 --> 01:03:13,005
Speaker 2: for me on this watch, what really stood out, what

1183
01:03:13,005 --> 01:03:16,365
Speaker 2: what just really stuck with me, is the shot where

1184
01:03:16,725 --> 01:03:20,605
Speaker 2: Delmer and Ulysses are in the back of the truck

1185
01:03:21,765 --> 01:03:24,845
Speaker 2: riding along through Mississippi and they passed the chain Gang

1186
01:03:24,885 --> 01:03:27,725
Speaker 2: again and standing in the middle of them is Pete

1187
01:03:28,325 --> 01:03:33,405
Speaker 2: just staring daggers at them, and Ulysses thinks that maybe

1188
01:03:33,445 --> 01:03:36,485
Speaker 2: he's seeing a ghost, or maybe Pete had a brother,

1189
01:03:37,085 --> 01:03:39,845
Speaker 2: maybe the heat's gotten to him. He doesn't know what

1190
01:03:39,965 --> 01:03:43,205
Speaker 2: he's seeing, but Pete knows exactly what he's seeing. And

1191
01:03:43,365 --> 01:03:46,885
Speaker 2: the just the beauty of that shot from the point

1192
01:03:46,925 --> 01:03:50,525
Speaker 2: of view of the truck pulling away, where kind of

1193
01:03:50,565 --> 01:03:52,885
Speaker 2: everything is in motion. The background is in motion because

1194
01:03:52,885 --> 01:03:55,765
Speaker 2: the truck is in motion, everybody in the chain gang

1195
01:03:56,325 --> 01:03:58,365
Speaker 2: is working hard on the rocks, so they're all in motion,

1196
01:03:58,925 --> 01:04:02,485
Speaker 2: and John Triture just standing perfectly still in the center

1197
01:04:02,525 --> 01:04:06,045
Speaker 2: of all of that and receding into the background as

1198
01:04:06,045 --> 01:04:08,885
Speaker 2: we wonder how Pete is eventually going to catch up.

1199
01:04:09,365 --> 01:04:12,765
Speaker 2: Love that shot. Love this movie. I loved to having

1200
01:04:12,765 --> 01:04:15,925
Speaker 2: a chance to revisit it. We did talk about whether

1201
01:04:15,925 --> 01:04:17,845
Speaker 2: we should go back to the Cohen's brother as well.

1202
01:04:18,925 --> 01:04:21,845
Speaker 2: Wait so soon, and then in the end we were

1203
01:04:21,925 --> 01:04:24,805
Speaker 2: just like, no, we just want to revisit this movie.

1204
01:04:24,405 --> 01:04:26,205
Speaker 3: The Tolerable Cruelties. Next, let's go.

1205
01:04:28,245 --> 01:04:30,805
Speaker 2: I'm up for it. Let's figure out what we compare

1206
01:04:30,885 --> 01:04:33,765
Speaker 2: with every Cohen Brothers movie, and when we run out,

1207
01:04:33,805 --> 01:04:35,445
Speaker 2: we'll just go back to the top. Hopefully you'll make

1208
01:04:35,485 --> 01:04:37,725
Speaker 2: some new ones in the meantime. Until then, we're going

1209
01:04:37,765 --> 01:04:39,645
Speaker 2: to take a break and then get into some feedback.

1210
01:04:50,085 --> 01:04:52,685
Speaker 2: Now it's time for feedback, but first let's dive into

1211
01:04:52,725 --> 01:04:56,005
Speaker 2: what's happening elsewhere in the extended film Spotting cinematic universe.

1212
01:04:56,285 --> 01:04:59,485
Speaker 2: There's a lot going on as we record this episode.

1213
01:04:59,525 --> 01:05:02,925
Speaker 2: Film Spottings Adam Kempinar and Josh Larson have just released

1214
01:05:02,925 --> 01:05:05,405
Speaker 2: an episode covering the top five films of twenty twenty

1215
01:05:05,405 --> 01:05:07,925
Speaker 2: six so far, which is an argument starter if I've

1216
01:05:07,965 --> 01:05:11,405
Speaker 2: ever heard one. On Film Spotting SVU, Matt Singer and

1217
01:05:11,485 --> 01:05:14,445
Speaker 2: Jordan Hoffman discussed the state of streaming movies, taking a

1218
01:05:14,485 --> 01:05:17,485
Speaker 2: deep dive into the streaming service to be, recommending titles

1219
01:05:17,485 --> 01:05:21,725
Speaker 2: to watch and evaluating the services movie collection reliability interface,

1220
01:05:22,245 --> 01:05:25,365
Speaker 2: and this one's particularly exciting to me. The latest edition

1221
01:05:25,365 --> 01:05:27,485
Speaker 2: of the Film Spotting Network is a new podcast called

1222
01:05:27,525 --> 01:05:30,485
Speaker 2: The Movie Racket, where Industry met Michael Phillips my old

1223
01:05:30,605 --> 01:05:33,565
Speaker 2: top ten movies of the year. Buddy tests the supposed

1224
01:05:33,645 --> 01:05:36,565
Speaker 2: laws of cinema and discusses where they still hold water.

1225
01:05:36,965 --> 01:05:39,365
Speaker 2: In the first episode, he talks with actor Michael Shannon

1226
01:05:39,405 --> 01:05:42,845
Speaker 2: about whether the old quote commonly attributed to Francois Truffau

1227
01:05:42,925 --> 01:05:45,325
Speaker 2: is accurate and whether it's true that every film about

1228
01:05:45,365 --> 01:05:48,405
Speaker 2: war winds up being pro war. And in the second

1229
01:05:48,445 --> 01:05:52,245
Speaker 2: released episode, critic Amy Nicholson joins Michael Phillips not Shannon

1230
01:05:52,565 --> 01:05:56,525
Speaker 2: to discuss Preston Sturge's possibly apocryphal eleven rules for box

1231
01:05:56,525 --> 01:05:59,245
Speaker 2: office appeal. You can find all of that, plus the

1232
01:05:59,325 --> 01:06:02,645
Speaker 2: latest Next Picture Show episodes at filmspotting dot Net. Now

1233
01:06:02,645 --> 01:06:04,845
Speaker 2: it's time for feedback, where we normally address some of

1234
01:06:04,845 --> 01:06:07,285
Speaker 2: the responses we've gotten to recent episodes, but this week

1235
01:06:07,325 --> 01:06:09,365
Speaker 2: we've got a question from the anything Else in the

1236
01:06:09,365 --> 01:06:11,525
Speaker 2: World of Film side of the mail bag. Here's a

1237
01:06:11,525 --> 01:06:14,205
Speaker 2: general question about a recent movie we haven't discussed on

1238
01:06:14,245 --> 01:06:19,445
Speaker 2: the podcast. Normally we reserve these four Patreon bonuses, but

1239
01:06:19,725 --> 01:06:21,685
Speaker 2: this time we're just going to jump in, Scott, could

1240
01:06:21,725 --> 01:06:22,405
Speaker 2: you read this please?

1241
01:06:22,885 --> 01:06:23,165
Speaker 3: Sure?

1242
01:06:23,485 --> 01:06:25,445
Speaker 5: JB writes, I know Keith wasn't a big fan, but

1243
01:06:25,485 --> 01:06:28,565
Speaker 5: I'm curious what Tasha and Scott thought about Obsession. I

1244
01:06:28,605 --> 01:06:30,805
Speaker 5: found a cryptic but I assume positive note from Tasha

1245
01:06:30,845 --> 01:06:34,005
Speaker 5: on Blue Sky, but can't find anything from Scott. I

1246
01:06:34,045 --> 01:06:36,525
Speaker 5: don't have anything particularly intelligent to say, but for me,

1247
01:06:37,045 --> 01:06:39,325
Speaker 5: this was the first Internet hyped horror movie to live

1248
01:06:39,405 --> 01:06:42,125
Speaker 5: up to expectations for quite a while. I guess Red

1249
01:06:42,165 --> 01:06:44,205
Speaker 5: Rooms did too, on a smaller scale, and I haven't

1250
01:06:44,205 --> 01:06:46,885
Speaker 5: seen Back Rooms yet. I was lukewarm at best on

1251
01:06:46,965 --> 01:06:49,965
Speaker 5: long legs, Talk to me, bring her back, smile, black phone, etc.

1252
01:06:50,685 --> 01:06:52,805
Speaker 5: One of the things I appreciated most was how natural

1253
01:06:52,845 --> 01:06:55,445
Speaker 5: and real the friend group seemed. I'm in my fifties

1254
01:06:55,485 --> 01:06:57,405
Speaker 5: but spend a lot of time with young folks at work.

1255
01:06:57,805 --> 01:06:59,805
Speaker 5: They felt like real people to me, rather than the

1256
01:06:59,805 --> 01:07:03,045
Speaker 5: movie version I usually see. And I'd be curious what

1257
01:07:03,125 --> 01:07:06,005
Speaker 5: Keith makes of its bonkers box office too. What a

1258
01:07:06,085 --> 01:07:08,925
Speaker 5: time for indie horror? What a time indeed?

1259
01:07:09,045 --> 01:07:09,805
Speaker 3: Yeah, Scott, I'm.

1260
01:07:09,645 --> 01:07:11,485
Speaker 2: Giving to understand. You just saw Obsession?

1261
01:07:11,605 --> 01:07:12,565
Speaker 3: What did I did?

1262
01:07:12,645 --> 01:07:14,565
Speaker 5: I saw it because you know I've been wanting to

1263
01:07:14,565 --> 01:07:16,445
Speaker 5: see it with my fifteen year old who's a big

1264
01:07:16,445 --> 01:07:18,325
Speaker 5: horror fan. We just could never get out to the

1265
01:07:18,325 --> 01:07:19,805
Speaker 5: theater and never get out to the theater and finally

1266
01:07:21,045 --> 01:07:23,965
Speaker 5: find its way onto home video and he watched it

1267
01:07:24,005 --> 01:07:28,005
Speaker 5: at the first opportunity. And I hate to defy my

1268
01:07:28,005 --> 01:07:31,685
Speaker 5: my my newsletter mate, but I really really liked it

1269
01:07:31,765 --> 01:07:34,485
Speaker 5: quite a bit. It has some issues for me in

1270
01:07:34,525 --> 01:07:36,645
Speaker 5: the final third, but I think it's got two or

1271
01:07:36,685 --> 01:07:39,445
Speaker 5: three kind of al Theimer scenes in it. It's got

1272
01:07:39,565 --> 01:07:42,605
Speaker 5: I think that the lead performance, the performance by the

1273
01:07:43,365 --> 01:07:46,845
Speaker 5: I can't remember the actress's name, but the lead actresses

1274
01:07:47,125 --> 01:07:52,445
Speaker 5: is really astounding. And I just found it very, you know, metaphysically, a.

1275
01:07:52,525 --> 01:07:54,005
Speaker 3: Very interesting movie.

1276
01:07:54,045 --> 01:07:57,405
Speaker 5: This idea of a wish, you know, having this wish

1277
01:07:57,445 --> 01:08:00,725
Speaker 5: that somebody love you more than anything in the world

1278
01:08:00,885 --> 01:08:04,605
Speaker 5: and that not being something that is real or true

1279
01:08:04,645 --> 01:08:08,325
Speaker 5: and kind of the impact that it has on both

1280
01:08:08,365 --> 01:08:12,685
Speaker 5: parties involved is just so fascinating to me, you know,

1281
01:08:12,845 --> 01:08:15,845
Speaker 5: in addition to being creepy and funny and yeah, I

1282
01:08:15,885 --> 01:08:18,724
Speaker 5: really I was a fan of this movie for sure.

1283
01:08:18,765 --> 01:08:20,805
Speaker 4: Indy Never, by the way.

1284
01:08:20,604 --> 01:08:24,165
Speaker 5: Yeah, Indian Ever at a wonderful performance, because it's because

1285
01:08:24,165 --> 01:08:28,004
Speaker 5: it's kind of it's creepy and funny, but also very human,

1286
01:08:28,525 --> 01:08:30,005
Speaker 5: you know. I think that was the thing that kind

1287
01:08:30,005 --> 01:08:34,405
Speaker 5: of really persuaded me about the movie is just, you know,

1288
01:08:34,445 --> 01:08:38,845
Speaker 5: the sense of just how being locked into this feeling.

1289
01:08:38,485 --> 01:08:41,924
Speaker 3: That she doesn't authentically have is becomes its own.

1290
01:08:42,445 --> 01:08:44,885
Speaker 5: Hell basically that they have to try to work them

1291
01:08:45,165 --> 01:08:47,925
Speaker 5: well so themselves out out of and they work themselves

1292
01:08:47,965 --> 01:08:49,764
Speaker 5: out of it a very grisly fashion.

1293
01:08:49,805 --> 01:08:51,885
Speaker 3: But I thought I thought it was quite a good

1294
01:08:52,085 --> 01:08:54,604
Speaker 3: piece of work. I did like it. Tasa, wo'd you

1295
01:08:54,605 --> 01:08:55,285
Speaker 3: what'd you think of it?

1296
01:08:56,165 --> 01:09:01,125
Speaker 2: The Blue Sky Post that Jamie's referring to here came

1297
01:09:01,205 --> 01:09:04,165
Speaker 2: from just sort of a moment of like, after being

1298
01:09:04,445 --> 01:09:07,845
Speaker 2: after being finished with the film, just reeling some friends

1299
01:09:07,845 --> 01:09:10,125
Speaker 2: of mine soot for the first time a couple days ago,

1300
01:09:10,805 --> 01:09:14,325
Speaker 2: and we're talking about how terrifying it was, and I

1301
01:09:14,405 --> 01:09:16,125
Speaker 2: kind of looked back and I was like, you know,

1302
01:09:16,205 --> 01:09:18,565
Speaker 2: I came out of that movie feeling like I'd been assaulted,

1303
01:09:18,965 --> 01:09:23,525
Speaker 2: feeling like I've been like physically grab and shaken, which

1304
01:09:24,045 --> 01:09:28,165
Speaker 2: I can't say is a good thing per se. But

1305
01:09:28,205 --> 01:09:32,205
Speaker 2: I was really taken by how effective the film was,

1306
01:09:32,965 --> 01:09:36,205
Speaker 2: how visceral and jolting. It was you know, there were

1307
01:09:36,205 --> 01:09:40,205
Speaker 2: some moments of pretty extreme gore, but it wasn't the

1308
01:09:40,245 --> 01:09:44,085
Speaker 2: gore that shook me. It was the depth of the

1309
01:09:44,125 --> 01:09:47,645
Speaker 2: emotions involved. There are a lot of jump scares, but

1310
01:09:47,685 --> 01:09:49,205
Speaker 2: it wasn't the jump scares that shook me. It was

1311
01:09:49,205 --> 01:09:51,925
Speaker 2: the death of the emotion involved. I feel like the

1312
01:09:52,045 --> 01:09:58,045
Speaker 2: almost comic aspect of kind of the classic quirky store

1313
01:09:58,085 --> 01:10:01,165
Speaker 2: where you get a monkey's paw that takes over your

1314
01:10:01,165 --> 01:10:04,525
Speaker 2: life and makes your ruit. With this kind of idea

1315
01:10:04,965 --> 01:10:08,045
Speaker 2: of somebody holding on to the thing that is destroying

1316
01:10:08,165 --> 01:10:11,885
Speaker 2: him no matter what happens, it just gives it all

1317
01:10:11,885 --> 01:10:15,765
Speaker 2: a really fascinating element. I just thought it was tremendously effective.

1318
01:10:16,285 --> 01:10:20,844
Speaker 2: I'm still sorting out the degree to which I enjoyed

1319
01:10:21,005 --> 01:10:25,525
Speaker 2: being that unnerved and unsettled, because I like a movie

1320
01:10:25,525 --> 01:10:28,245
Speaker 2: that makes me feel something, but this one went so

1321
01:10:28,445 --> 01:10:33,805
Speaker 2: far in the direction of like making me feel terrified

1322
01:10:34,125 --> 01:10:37,845
Speaker 2: and sad, like far.

1323
01:10:39,605 --> 01:10:42,485
Speaker 5: It has moments that are funny though, which helps. I mean,

1324
01:10:42,725 --> 01:10:44,564
Speaker 5: you know, I think I think about like the two scenes.

1325
01:10:44,565 --> 01:10:49,085
Speaker 5: I really love the scene in the restaurant, the no no,

1326
01:10:49,085 --> 01:10:51,405
Speaker 5: no no no scene, and then and then this and

1327
01:10:51,405 --> 01:10:53,085
Speaker 5: then the scene and this is something that JB I

1328
01:10:53,085 --> 01:10:55,245
Speaker 5: think is referring to when he talks about the friend

1329
01:10:55,445 --> 01:10:58,644
Speaker 5: dynamics in the in the movie where where they're all

1330
01:10:58,685 --> 01:11:01,805
Speaker 5: together at I guess a bar and uh and they

1331
01:11:01,885 --> 01:11:04,805
Speaker 5: and you know, one of them has to kiss the

1332
01:11:04,845 --> 01:11:08,325
Speaker 5: person to their left, and the way that scene plays

1333
01:11:08,325 --> 01:11:12,165
Speaker 5: out is so you know, creepy and terrifying and also hilarious.

1334
01:11:12,205 --> 01:11:14,325
Speaker 3: And I just I thought it was dynamite.

1335
01:11:14,445 --> 01:11:16,725
Speaker 6: I wish we were a video podcast so y'all could

1336
01:11:16,725 --> 01:11:19,525
Speaker 6: see the face touch and made in response to Scott

1337
01:11:19,565 --> 01:11:23,405
Speaker 6: saying this movie was and that just froze in that face,

1338
01:11:23,525 --> 01:11:25,365
Speaker 6: the entirety of his response.

1339
01:11:26,845 --> 01:11:30,125
Speaker 2: I mean, but the thing is, he's not wrong. The

1340
01:11:30,965 --> 01:11:35,965
Speaker 2: sequence where the protagonist goes back to the quirky store,

1341
01:11:36,005 --> 01:11:41,125
Speaker 2: which just making the mysterious store that probably isn't going

1342
01:11:41,205 --> 01:11:43,884
Speaker 2: to be there the second time. You go back into

1343
01:11:44,565 --> 01:11:47,765
Speaker 2: a new age kind of place like full of of

1344
01:11:48,205 --> 01:11:52,045
Speaker 2: you know, crystals and books about like psychic healing is

1345
01:11:52,125 --> 01:11:56,085
Speaker 2: just so choice and so hilarious, and some of the

1346
01:11:56,285 --> 01:11:59,485
Speaker 2: elements as he tries to explore what it would take

1347
01:11:59,565 --> 01:12:02,205
Speaker 2: to get the curse broken, like there's a scene in

1348
01:12:02,245 --> 01:12:05,965
Speaker 2: a car where he has a phone conversation that's tremendously

1349
01:12:06,085 --> 01:12:09,965
Speaker 2: sad and frightening and hurtful, and then every time he

1350
01:12:10,005 --> 01:12:12,485
Speaker 2: goes back to the store, it just all gets funny again.

1351
01:12:12,565 --> 01:12:14,965
Speaker 5: Well, but the fact is the fact that this one,

1352
01:12:14,965 --> 01:12:18,445
Speaker 5: which Will has like a customer service line, is really

1353
01:12:18,445 --> 01:12:21,365
Speaker 5: funny in itself too, right, Yeah, it's that you can

1354
01:12:21,365 --> 01:12:21,645
Speaker 5: call it.

1355
01:12:21,645 --> 01:12:24,685
Speaker 2: It's a very dark sense of humor. But I think

1356
01:12:24,685 --> 01:12:27,285
Speaker 2: it's very funny. But anyway, I think we've both said

1357
01:12:27,285 --> 01:12:30,765
Speaker 2: our piece. I Keith, the question directed directly view was

1358
01:12:30,845 --> 01:12:32,925
Speaker 2: what do you make of the box office for this movie?

1359
01:12:33,205 --> 01:12:35,365
Speaker 4: Yeah, it won't be a wet blanket it. This was

1360
01:12:35,445 --> 01:12:37,804
Speaker 4: just in connect with me for whatever reason, it connects

1361
01:12:37,845 --> 01:12:41,604
Speaker 4: with every other single person and to the point where like, yeah,

1362
01:12:41,605 --> 01:12:43,644
Speaker 4: I'll have to revisit it at some point. I think

1363
01:12:43,645 --> 01:12:45,845
Speaker 4: I actually think my daughter is watching it as we

1364
01:12:45,885 --> 01:12:50,285
Speaker 4: record this podcast. So, but that said, there's things I

1365
01:12:50,325 --> 01:12:52,564
Speaker 4: liked about it, and Indian I've read it. It's really good.

1366
01:12:52,685 --> 01:12:54,805
Speaker 4: But I'm also just I'm very pleased that it is,

1367
01:12:55,365 --> 01:12:57,885
Speaker 4: you know, regardless of my mixed feelings on it, I'm

1368
01:12:57,965 --> 01:12:59,884
Speaker 4: very pleased that it's doing so well. I mean, i'd

1369
01:12:59,885 --> 01:13:03,285
Speaker 4: love to see the small the scrappy, the unusual, the

1370
01:13:03,325 --> 01:13:07,684
Speaker 4: non franchise, the original ideas, et cetera, et cetera. Get

1371
01:13:07,725 --> 01:13:09,685
Speaker 4: you know, get some eyes on them. And I love

1372
01:13:09,765 --> 01:13:12,644
Speaker 4: back rooms too, so that one I'm I'm really into.

1373
01:13:12,685 --> 01:13:16,005
Speaker 4: So those two together, you know, burning out the charts

1374
01:13:16,165 --> 01:13:18,165
Speaker 4: good for them, and I think it bodes well, although

1375
01:13:18,205 --> 01:13:20,525
Speaker 4: I do kind of worry that that that it's sort

1376
01:13:20,525 --> 01:13:23,045
Speaker 4: of like, well, what YouTuber can we mind? You know,

1377
01:13:23,165 --> 01:13:25,685
Speaker 4: what YouTuber coup promote next? Instead of like finding the

1378
01:13:25,685 --> 01:13:27,685
Speaker 4: best idea, just sort of like it must be the

1379
01:13:27,685 --> 01:13:30,724
Speaker 4: medium that's producing this saying, not not the not any

1380
01:13:30,725 --> 01:13:34,525
Speaker 4: sort of like artistic movement. But whatever, we'll see, it'll it'll.

1381
01:13:34,805 --> 01:13:37,085
Speaker 4: I think we'll get some interesting I think some interesting

1382
01:13:37,085 --> 01:13:38,644
Speaker 4: stuff will come to the surface.

1383
01:13:38,805 --> 01:13:41,045
Speaker 3: He cannot wait for the skibbity toilet movie.

1384
01:13:42,445 --> 01:13:44,445
Speaker 4: I'm more Italian brain rock guy, you know.

1385
01:13:45,125 --> 01:13:49,245
Speaker 2: But we keep in mind that, uh talk to me

1386
01:13:49,285 --> 01:13:51,725
Speaker 2: and bring her back. We're also both from YouTubers. I mean,

1387
01:13:51,725 --> 01:13:57,285
Speaker 2: we're years into the mining successful YouTubers for horror movies

1388
01:13:57,285 --> 01:14:02,365
Speaker 2: in specific era, and you know, until it goes terribly wrong,

1389
01:14:02,485 --> 01:14:05,925
Speaker 2: I'm I'm fine with it. Also, I feel like, you know,

1390
01:14:06,125 --> 01:14:09,045
Speaker 2: film snobs like us don't necessarily get happily of our

1391
01:14:09,085 --> 01:14:12,645
Speaker 2: afters all that often, so the happily ever after of

1392
01:14:12,965 --> 01:14:16,365
Speaker 2: back rooms and obsession making a ton of money, while

1393
01:14:16,365 --> 01:14:19,844
Speaker 2: the live action will Wana remake is kind of circling

1394
01:14:19,845 --> 01:14:23,525
Speaker 2: the drain is just like, you know, the happiest, happiest

1395
01:14:23,565 --> 01:14:26,885
Speaker 2: ever after we could possibly have for this particular summer.

1396
01:14:27,765 --> 01:14:29,644
Speaker 4: Why does Tasha hate Mohana so much?

1397
01:14:31,405 --> 01:14:35,365
Speaker 2: I don't hate Moana. I just hate people doing the

1398
01:14:35,405 --> 01:14:36,765
Speaker 2: same things over and over.

1399
01:14:37,165 --> 01:14:39,925
Speaker 4: Wants to help her people out, and she goes on

1400
01:14:39,965 --> 01:14:42,045
Speaker 4: an adventure. What's not the like there.

1401
01:14:42,685 --> 01:14:49,925
Speaker 2: The stupid chicken. That's it for this episode or the

1402
01:14:49,925 --> 01:14:52,485
Speaker 2: Next Picture Show. In our next episode, we'll talk about

1403
01:14:52,565 --> 01:14:55,325
Speaker 2: Christopher Nolans The Odyssey, which takes a much more literal

1404
01:14:55,365 --> 01:14:58,325
Speaker 2: approach to Homer's epic. Look for that episode next Tuesday

1405
01:14:58,325 --> 01:15:00,805
Speaker 2: on your podcatcher of choice. For ad free versions of

1406
01:15:00,805 --> 01:15:03,564
Speaker 2: the podcast and extra content, find us on Patreon at

1407
01:15:03,565 --> 01:15:06,245
Speaker 2: Patreon dot com slash Next Picture Show. You can find

1408
01:15:06,285 --> 01:15:08,125
Speaker 2: us at Next Picture Show dot net and on Blue

1409
01:15:08,165 --> 01:15:10,205
Speaker 2: Sky at Next Picture Show if you want to keep

1410
01:15:10,245 --> 01:15:13,445
Speaker 2: track of when new episodes drop in the meantime, if

1411
01:15:13,485 --> 01:15:15,285
Speaker 2: you have a treasure out there that you're looking for.

1412
01:15:15,925 --> 01:15:18,245
Speaker 2: Do not seek the treasure.

1413
01:15:18,805 --> 01:15:30,604
Speaker 9: It's an ambush.

1414
01:15:30,525 --> 01:15:31,445
Speaker 2: Well it was a good movie.

1415
01:15:31,805 --> 01:15:33,325
Speaker 4: Yeah, seen here before once