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Speaker 1: Deep in the back of your mind. You've always had

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Speaker 1: the feeling that there's something strange about reality. There is

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Speaker 1: super annoyed, definitely nanopartic, mechanical, messiahistic punch evolution. On our

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Speaker 1: award winning science podcast Stuff With All Your Mind, we

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Speaker 1: examine neurological quandaries, cosmic mysteries, evolutionary marvels, and our trans

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Speaker 1: human future. New episodes come out Tuesdays and Thursdays on iTunes,

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Speaker 1: Google Play, Spotify, and anywhere you get your podcast. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to Stuff Mob Never Told You From how stup works

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Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen

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Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline. And this is part three of our

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Speaker 1: summer series on romantic comedies. That right, And this one

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Speaker 1: is dedicated to the Sidekick Yes, and I'm dedicating it

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Speaker 1: personally and specifically to Judy Greer. Oh, she's the Queen

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Speaker 1: of the Sidekicks. She is the Sidekick Queen. And there

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Speaker 1: was this great article that we read about her um

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Speaker 1: It was published right after she wrote her book I

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Speaker 1: Don't Know Where You Know Me from? Yes, And and

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Speaker 1: that the title is derived from her actual life because

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Speaker 1: people are always coming up to her saying I know

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Speaker 1: you from something, And she's gotten so adept at being

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Speaker 1: able to judge based on the person's age and other

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Speaker 1: factors what movie you know her from, because she's been

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Speaker 1: in a million romantic comedies in addition to some things

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Speaker 1: that are just ROMs or just calms or some DRAMs

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Speaker 1: even um. But she's fascinating and her career perspective is

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Speaker 1: refreshing when especially coming from someone in Hollywood, because she's

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Speaker 1: really focused on just furthering and building her career steadily

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Speaker 1: rather than the meteoric rise of some huge blockbuster celebrity.

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Speaker 1: And that's translated into a really relatively for Hollywood anyway,

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Speaker 1: long career. Yeah, I mean, and she has starred in

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Speaker 1: some films like The Descendants. She I don't know if

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Speaker 1: it's still on the air, but she was starring on

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Speaker 1: f X is Married, which is a sitcom where she

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Speaker 1: does play more of a straight man to the husband's character. Um.

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Speaker 1: But in one of those interviews I was reading with her,

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Speaker 1: she was joking about how she has been a sidekick

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Speaker 1: to all the Jennifers and at one point it was

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Speaker 1: just her plan to see if she could work her

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Speaker 1: way through like all of the Kates and Rachel's. And

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Speaker 1: then when she's basically just gotten all of the the

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Speaker 1: names out of the way, she could retire because she's

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Speaker 1: made a really profitable career for herself as every single

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Speaker 1: rom coms sidekick. Yeah, and I don't know, I don't

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Speaker 1: know what it is. I think she's she's able to

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Speaker 1: play sensitive and vulnerable, She's able to play caddie and snarky.

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Speaker 1: She's able to play just about anything, includeing the character

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Speaker 1: on Arrested Development with the cross sided nipples Kitty. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she's able to play completely off the wall. Um. And

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Speaker 1: before we came in the studio, Caroline, I was googling

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Speaker 1: around for a few final sidekick thoughts and ran across

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Speaker 1: a Hello Giggles slide show about sidekicks who deserve their

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Speaker 1: own movies, and Judy Greer characters were in three of them.

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Speaker 1: So it was Judy Greer in the Wedding Planner, Judy

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Speaker 1: Greer in thirteen going on thirty, and Judy Greer in Dresses,

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Speaker 1: which I think really the editors should have seen that

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Speaker 1: and said, hey, writer, why don't you just write a

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Speaker 1: longer essay about how much Judy Greer just needs her

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Speaker 1: own movie. Yeah? Well, you know what. I came into

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Speaker 1: the living room the other night. I had been working,

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Speaker 1: and uh, my boyfriend was watching What Women Want. I

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Speaker 1: didn't make him watch it. I didn't turn it on.

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Speaker 1: I didn't suggest we watch romantic comedies as research for

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Speaker 1: this series. Kristen, I walked into the living room and

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Speaker 1: he was just watching Mel Gibson and Helen Hunt Duke

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Speaker 1: get out screwball style in What Women Want? And Judy

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Speaker 1: Greer is in it. And Judy Greer is in doesn't

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Speaker 1: she play an assistant of some sort? She plays Aaron,

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Speaker 1: the nervous and mousie file assistant who Mel Gibson, after

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Speaker 1: being able to read women's minds, is really concerned that

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Speaker 1: she's going to hurt herself, so he like busts into

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Speaker 1: her apartment and they end up having like a really

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Speaker 1: emotional conversation and Aaron slash Judy feels like really validated. Finally, Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's not a good movie. No, it's it's a morble movie.

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Speaker 1: And I have a feeling, because Judy Greer seems like

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Speaker 1: a really red lady. I have a feeling that if

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Speaker 1: she were just chatting with us, maybe off Mike, she

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Speaker 1: would also agree. Yeah, um. But there was an interview

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Speaker 1: with her from a few years back in Finery Twine

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Speaker 1: where they asked her her favorite rom com sidekick, and

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Speaker 1: you want to take a guess. Oh, oh, I feel

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Speaker 1: like a new No, I don't know, She said Kit

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Speaker 1: from Pretty Woman, because she liked her her favorite. I

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Speaker 1: thought you met her own character. Oh kids, pretty spunky. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she liked Kit and also Sandy and Tutsie, which she

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Speaker 1: said was a bit of a stretch. And I sadly

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Speaker 1: have tried to watch Tutsie a kid, you know, three times.

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Speaker 1: What happens? I fell asleep every single time. I was

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Speaker 1: determined to watch it because deep cut. There is a

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Speaker 1: now deceased sadly podcast called Professor blast Off, and one

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Speaker 1: of the hosts on their Kyle Dunn again, what do

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Speaker 1: you knew? This? This funny Tutsie impression and loves the

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Speaker 1: movie Tutsi. And so one cabin weekend, I rented Tutsie

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Speaker 1: from the library. Ladies. It was like two years ago, okay,

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Speaker 1: And I tried to watch TITSI and fall asleep every

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Speaker 1: single time. It was like right after Dustin Hoffman would

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Speaker 1: walk out as Tutsie boom asleep. It just has this

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Speaker 1: effect on me. That's no. My college roommate and I

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Speaker 1: tried to watch um Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy about

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Speaker 1: three times before we finally stayed awake for it. We

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Speaker 1: like drink coffee. I mean, we were prepped. That's a

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Speaker 1: cute movie. Um, and I haven't read the books, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: But speaking of Titsie, though, there's another sidekick in that

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Speaker 1: movie who's always in this top sidekick list, which is

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Speaker 1: Bill Murray's character in that movie. And in the moment

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Speaker 1: when he calls Dustin Hoffman slash the lady character a

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Speaker 1: slut for being kissed by a dude. So you can

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Speaker 1: follow up on that, Caroline, But I was probably asleep

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Speaker 1: when it happened. It's been a long time since I've

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Speaker 1: seen TUTSI, so I can't add too much to that.

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Speaker 1: I will say one of my favorite sidekick couples um

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Speaker 1: is Just and Marie from When Harry Met Sally. In fact,

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Speaker 1: I at some points when I'm when I'm watching that

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Speaker 1: movie and really just more invested in Bruno Kirby and

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Speaker 1: Carrie Fisher, who start out as a sidekicks, but then

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Speaker 1: they get together and I really love their relationship. Because

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Speaker 1: of course Harry and Salary able to kind of play

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Speaker 1: off of them. But I find them such a more

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Speaker 1: believable couple than Billy Crystal and Meg Ryan. Yes, and

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Speaker 1: but that is the curse slash blessing of the sidekicks

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Speaker 1: plural uh. They are often allowed to be way more

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Speaker 1: human and flawed and believable and snarky and have a

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Speaker 1: diverse array of I don't know, ethnic backgrounds, weights, heights, personalities,

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Speaker 1: whatever than the leading couples tend to do. But then

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Speaker 1: the fact that a lot of times they aren't as

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Speaker 1: normatively attract especially if they're women, or maybe they're more overweight,

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Speaker 1: like a Jack Black in High Fidelity, Or then you

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Speaker 1: get into the territory of oh are we doing the

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Speaker 1: token black sidekick, token black friend who has bits of

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Speaker 1: knowledge knowledge to drop every now and then. Um, it's

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Speaker 1: a lot of times those differentiating factors that the film

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Speaker 1: subtly communicates are the reasons why they're not the leading

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Speaker 1: manner lady right like Janine Garofoli's character in Reality bites

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Speaker 1: like she's too sexual, she's too out there, she doesn't

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Speaker 1: have enough ambition, she works at the gap, so she

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Speaker 1: that character relegated to the sidekick role. I love that sentence.

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Speaker 1: She has too much ambition, she works at the gap.

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Speaker 1: Not enough ambition, Not enough ambition. I think such just

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Speaker 1: too much ambition, because if you were telling my fourteen

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Speaker 1: year old self would be like, heck, yeah, no, I

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Speaker 1: cannot fold sweater to save my life, so I could

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Speaker 1: not get a job at the Gap. Um. Who else?

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Speaker 1: What are some what are who are some of your

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Speaker 1: other favorites? Well, speaking of Janine Garofolo, I wanted to

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Speaker 1: know your thoughts about sidekick turned romantic lead in The

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Speaker 1: Truth About Cats and Dogs, because we walk into the

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Speaker 1: movie with obviously you know Janine Garofolo being more of

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Speaker 1: the sidekick, because she is more of a sidekick when

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Speaker 1: you size her up next to literally in figuratively, next

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Speaker 1: to and with Thurman, who's this model. She's a little

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Speaker 1: bit dumber in the film, and of course she has

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Speaker 1: to use her to get to the handsome guy with

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Speaker 1: the dog. Um, so what do you think about how

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Speaker 1: that sort of do you think it flips the whole

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Speaker 1: sidekick thing on its head a little bit? Yeah? I

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Speaker 1: mean there's also there's also so much of that typical

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Speaker 1: romantic comedy deception, so much of that Shakespearean deception um

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Speaker 1: where she does have to pretend that she is Zuma

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Speaker 1: Thurman and vice versa. Uh, but yeah, I think it's

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Speaker 1: as I think it's an interesting twist on putting the

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Speaker 1: sidekick as the main main role. In high school, one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite sidekicks was Lily Sobieski and Never Been Kissed.

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Speaker 1: She was Drew Barrymore's nerdy friend, and there's this line that,

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Speaker 1: for some reason my best friend and I thought was

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Speaker 1: so funny when she and Drew Barrymore go for a

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Speaker 1: fro yo or something like that for the first time,

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Speaker 1: and she gets really excited when Drew Barrymore asks or

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Speaker 1: what she wants to because she just has this laundry

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Speaker 1: list of things that starts off, I want to be

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Speaker 1: a painter, I want to be a potter, I want

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Speaker 1: to see the world like Drew Barrymore just falls in

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Speaker 1: love with her in that moment, and it's actually like

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Speaker 1: this really sweet moment of bonding because for Lily Sobieski's character,

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Speaker 1: she feels seen and accepted for the first time, which

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Speaker 1: may may or may not have been able to kind

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Speaker 1: of personally relate to when I was watching that myself.

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Speaker 1: In high school. Um, that's a movie whose rom com

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Speaker 1: deception I do not approve of at all. I think

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Speaker 1: it's super gross and creepy because, Okay said basically, if

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Speaker 1: you've never seen Never Been Kissed Drew Barrymore, you know

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Speaker 1: she had her own her character had her own nerdy

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Speaker 1: high school experience, and she grows up. She's a journalist

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Speaker 1: and she goes undercover in high school as a student

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Speaker 1: to get a story. I can't remember what the story was,

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Speaker 1: something about baseball. Her brother went back for baseball. I

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Speaker 1: don't know who's to say, but anyway, so she's playing

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Speaker 1: a student, but the whole movie is setting her up

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Speaker 1: to be the romantic interest and vice versa of Michael Vartan.

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Speaker 1: And then at the end, you know, Never Been Kissed,

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Speaker 1: they finally kissed, and it's like, you, Michael Vartan, you've

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Speaker 1: been a teacher this whole time and assuming that she's

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Speaker 1: a student, and now you're like, but he knew Caroline,

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Speaker 1: you know, when he thought she was a student, that

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Speaker 1: it couldn't work. Yeah, of course factors for sure. Don't

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Speaker 1: try to defend that. But it's like clueless, because I

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Speaker 1: think the clueless contains two of the very best lady

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Speaker 1: sidekicks one could ask for, with Dionne who it's hard

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Speaker 1: to say that she's even a sidekick because she's really

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Speaker 1: her own woman. But tie Griven with the homies come

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Speaker 1: on and r I p Brittany Murphy while we're at it, like,

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Speaker 1: she's so good because you have a magical makeover. She's

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Speaker 1: a sidekick, she's so loyal, But then she comes into

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Speaker 1: her own She does come into her own, yes, and

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Speaker 1: then she becomes a snide kick, yeah, telling Share that

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Speaker 1: you're nothing but a virgin who can't drive. Burn what

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Speaker 1: a burn? Well, and speaking of sidekick burns, I love

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Speaker 1: the meta moment in Roman and Michelle's high school reunion when,

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Speaker 1: which I did see from start to finish finally for

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Speaker 1: the first time in preparation for this series, Caroline, my

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Speaker 1: movie watching, I really caught up to, like, at least

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Speaker 1: I think now pop culture wise. Oh well, and you know,

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Speaker 1: the people, the people who follow us on Facebook are

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Speaker 1: demanding that we do a mystery science theater three thousand

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Speaker 1: style rom com watching. Yes, Yes, And I was like,

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Speaker 1: at first, I was skeptical that anyone would like stay

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Speaker 1: with us through that experience because it's a lot. I

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Speaker 1: mean the whole movie. It's like an hour and a half.

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Speaker 1: But but you know, if they'll do it, I'll do it.

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Speaker 1: We could try. We can always try. Have some cocktails.

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Speaker 1: But I love that moment where Romeo Michelle You'll pull

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Speaker 1: off on the side of the road and get in

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Speaker 1: a fight, all because of the sidekick burn where I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it's Lisa Kudro who says it first,

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Speaker 1: or Mia Sorvino who says I'm the Mary and you're

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Speaker 1: the road at you know, because they've been equals for

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Speaker 1: so long and they're like, no, I'm not. I can't

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Speaker 1: even do the accent. I wish I could have such

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Speaker 1: a perfect accent. But that's that's the moment. That's what

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Speaker 1: splits them up, one of them calling the other a sidekick.

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Speaker 1: You know, want your friend to call you a sidekick.

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Speaker 1: It's so hurtful, especially for two two ladies who are

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Speaker 1: just really you know, one and the same. I know

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Speaker 1: they haven't posted together together. Um So let's talk about though,

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Speaker 1: the purpose of the sidekick, because obviously there's such a

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Speaker 1: staple of the rom com formula that there must be

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Speaker 1: a reason they're there. Yeah, well, I mean you could again,

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Speaker 1: you could almost look back to Shakespeare or the whole

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Speaker 1: or even the Greek chorus part of Greek tragedies, you know,

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Speaker 1: having the characters there who provide the commentary, who provide

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Speaker 1: the context to help the audience understand how to feel.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's essentially what a rom com sidekick is. Well,

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Speaker 1: there was that hilarious piece from mc sweeney's that you

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Speaker 1: sent me, a written from the perspective of a sidekick,

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Speaker 1: and one part of it says, even though of us

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Speaker 1: we've known each other since childbirth, I love taking those

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Speaker 1: long walks with you in the park where I ask

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Speaker 1: you to tell me in detail about you know, all

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Speaker 1: of these moments of your life that I was there

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Speaker 1: right alongside you and of course know all about. But

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Speaker 1: I just like it when you repeat them to me.

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Speaker 1: Oh and yeah, don't let me talk about myself. I

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Speaker 1: only only ever want to hear about you. And the

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Speaker 1: end was just the sidekick going home to cry herself

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Speaker 1: to sleep. But yeah, I mean, that whole supportive, unselfish

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Speaker 1: friend thing is definitely one aspect of the sidekicks purpose.

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Speaker 1: But they might also serve as a teacher or mentor.

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Speaker 1: They might serve as the sounding board. So when mel

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Speaker 1: Gibson is doing something terrible like listening to Lady Brains,

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Speaker 1: he's got his buddy there who hears all of the

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Speaker 1: stuff that mel Gibson is doing. And you know we

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Speaker 1: mentioned earlier that, hey, the sidekick is so appealing because

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Speaker 1: here she gets to be a mess. And Judith Roof,

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Speaker 1: who's another one of those romcom scholars that we've cited

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Speaker 1: so often in the series, already u in her book

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Speaker 1: All about Thelma and Eve Sidekicks and third Wheels, which

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Speaker 1: the preview for that on Google is is tragically brief. Um.

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Speaker 1: But Judith Roof argues that because sidekicks are allowed to

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Speaker 1: be neurotic messes, they actually represent the normative because they're

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Speaker 1: enforcing through their more comic or perverse, so to speak, positions,

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Speaker 1: just how normative the the straight man or the protagonist is,

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Speaker 1: Like I'm cooking and crazy, and maybe I'm too tall

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Speaker 1: or too fat or too thin or whatever, but like,

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Speaker 1: look at this handsome Carrie Grant figure who's going to

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Speaker 1: be the real hero and be cemented in heteronormative unions

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Speaker 1: with the leading lady. So okay, So they have like

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Speaker 1: an outsize ridiculous character. Then you're probably gonna have a

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Speaker 1: pretty vanilla leading lady. She's going to be in a

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Speaker 1: card again, and she's like, oh, Sandra, you're always hosting

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Speaker 1: those random parties for holidays like Arbor Day, and that,

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Speaker 1: of course at Arbor Day is where she ends up

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Speaker 1: meeting Dermott mcdilmot. Now that's not his name, Please keep

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Speaker 1: that Dilmot, McDermott. What's his name? Dermott? Well, Rooney, remember

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Speaker 1: in the nineties when it was all dill's and mc donald's.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Um, yeah, I'm Caroline. I'm just trying

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Speaker 1: to share with you, Caroline. I'm just trying to subtly

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Speaker 1: workshop my new rom com screenplay Arbor Day, and apparently

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Speaker 1: it's not flying now. I think you literally just wrote

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Speaker 1: some of the dialogue right there. One example of this

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Speaker 1: whole like Cookie sidekick with the straight man and woman

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Speaker 1: leading adian man thing is the movie Two Can Play

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Speaker 1: That Game, in which Shanta played by Vivica Fox and

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Speaker 1: Keith played by Morris Chestnut are the straight woman and

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Speaker 1: man to their best friends who are in real life comedians.

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Speaker 1: You've got Wendy Rickel, Robinson, Tamala Jones, Monique and Anthony Anderson,

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Speaker 1: all of whom are allowed to be loud, quirky, cookie, weird,

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Speaker 1: funny and inappropriate because the leading man and leading lady

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Speaker 1: are supposed to be shown. And this is this is

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Speaker 1: super trope city with rom coms across the board. The

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Speaker 1: you know, the two leading characters are supposed to have

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Speaker 1: an unimpeded path to find each other. They're not supposed

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Speaker 1: to be having the same kind of kookiness. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: they can't be having as good of a time, you know,

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Speaker 1: because you gotta have a little dram with your rom

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Speaker 1: So the sidekicks give you some calm. That's right, right, um,

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Speaker 1: one show that you've recently gotten me into that is

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Speaker 1: a great example of rom coms. And yes, we are

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Speaker 1: talking about sitcoms for a moment, but how strong rom

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Speaker 1: coms also have strong sidekicks because like I think, the

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Speaker 1: best sidekicks, like you know something more about them. They're

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Speaker 1: not just you know, they're only in order to propel

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Speaker 1: the protagonists along. And you're the worst. Has Lindsay and Edgar,

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Speaker 1: who are the two sidekicks, but they both get fully

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Speaker 1: developed stories. Oh god, that show, I I feel so

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Speaker 1: warm and squishy about that show, like, I love it

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Speaker 1: so much, and those characters Lindsay and Edgar, I mean

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Speaker 1: new Phone who did like that show is so good.

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Speaker 1: And you've got the two leading characters who are terrible people,

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Speaker 1: and you've got Lindsay who's like, she's terrible but so

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Speaker 1: sweet in her heart somewhere, and then Edgar who's just

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Speaker 1: like nothing but sweet and has a dash of PTSD

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Speaker 1: from being a veteran. But oh god, I think it's

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Speaker 1: such a great example. And yes, it is a show,

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Speaker 1: a TV show, and it's not a movie. It's not

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Speaker 1: a romantic comedy movie, but it is it fits in

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Speaker 1: with everything we're talking about so well. So how do

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Speaker 1: you think in that example then, that Lindsay and Edgar

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Speaker 1: being so well rounded like improves the whole thing, aside

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Speaker 1: from them just being like enjoyable characters and really funny actors.

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Speaker 1: But what do you think it is about, like the

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Speaker 1: strong sidekick that strengthens a rom com altogether. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean I think they I mean they do serve

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Speaker 1: a purpose of plugging in puzzle pieces when the lead

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Speaker 1: characters are falling to bits. It does provide a little

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Speaker 1: bit of comic relief. To the drama. For instance, of

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Speaker 1: Gretchen's depression that she battled this last season. Um, but

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it's it's nothing is writing

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Speaker 1: on Lindsay and Edgar getting together. Uh, so there's no

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Speaker 1: pressure there, So they're allowed to have these winding, loopy

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Speaker 1: storyline that go in all sorts of different angles and directions,

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Speaker 1: whereas you know that the leading characters are supposed to

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Speaker 1: be constantly heading towards each other. I don't know it

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Speaker 1: it it spices things up, and because their characters are

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Speaker 1: so great and fleshed out, you get to go on

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Speaker 1: those crazy rides with them. Well. And that's an example

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Speaker 1: I would say of the trend that we're likelier to

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Speaker 1: see in more modern rom coms where the protagonist and

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Speaker 1: possibly the sidekick, but definitely the protagonist is more of

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Speaker 1: a train wreck than she used to be. Don't necessarily

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Speaker 1: need a wild card sidekick to you know, at least

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Speaker 1: spice up plane Jane because she a mess already. I mean,

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Speaker 1: think about Kristen Wig and Bridesmaids. Of course, there's train

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Speaker 1: Wreck the film. Yeah, and her, I mean, could you

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Speaker 1: argue that her sidekick is her sister? Like this and

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Speaker 1: she's way more of a straight character. Yeah, yeah, Um,

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Speaker 1: I was actually looking to see if I could find

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Speaker 1: a list of sibling and child sidekicks because um. A

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Speaker 1: couple of those that also came to mind were, um,

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Speaker 1: Joseph Gordon Levitt's sister in Five Hundred Days of Summer,

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Speaker 1: played by Chloe Marenz. And then also for a kid,

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Speaker 1: you have, um, Abigail Breslin as Ryan Reynolds's daughter, and

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Speaker 1: Definitely Maybe, who's kind of sidekicky in a way of

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Speaker 1: propelling the narrative and is the you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: the sounding board for the main character and sort of

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Speaker 1: challenges them to think about things. Um. And of course

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Speaker 1: in the case of Definitely Maybe and Five Days of Summer,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting to see where you have like these two

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Speaker 1: male protagonists being led by these younger characters, you know,

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Speaker 1: like the wisdom of children, right right, right right, Um,

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Speaker 1: and I mean you've also got leading the charge. I

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Speaker 1: feel like, uh in this whole slacker sidekick turned leading

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Speaker 1: man or woman is Judd Apatow for men anyway, A

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Speaker 1: lot of his as we talked in a previous talked

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Speaker 1: about in a previous episode, a lot of his female

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Speaker 1: characters are still more of the serious straight character. But

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Speaker 1: his dudes, they're all I mean, like, look at Seth

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Speaker 1: Rogan in Knocked Up, Like his totally goofy, slacker, stoner

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Speaker 1: character would have been, would have made a great sidekick

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Speaker 1: to some guy who's out searching for Katherine Heigel to

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Speaker 1: be his soul mate. Well, and he was doing exactly

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Speaker 1: that in a forty year old Virgin, But he wasn't

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Speaker 1: a nice sidekick to Dave Garrel. Steve Gurrel, excuse me,

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Speaker 1: I don't know Dave Carrell meanwhile, um, but he played

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Speaker 1: almost the same character but was just far more rude

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Speaker 1: and yeah, a lot more facial hair, more facial hair, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: But speaking of dudes, Lee being the charge in romantic comedies.

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Speaker 1: You know, going through all of our rom com scholarship

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Speaker 1: that we've been flipping through for weeks now, don't you

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Speaker 1: love Rom's com Scholarship? I really do. I really honestly

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Speaker 1: find myself just reading I mean just reading it instead

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Speaker 1: of paging through looking for just the details to put

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Speaker 1: in the notes. I just Caroline just just takes a

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Speaker 1: book and puts it up to to her years speak

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Speaker 1: to her that way. I hear the ocean. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: hear the ocean when I listened to books up, I

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Speaker 1: actually like to sleep with them open. Just on that.

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Speaker 1: That's smart. Yeah, multitasker, smell the smell of the pages. Yeah. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: what's interesting when you look at not just the top

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Speaker 1: ten lists of great sidekicks and things like that, but

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Speaker 1: when you get into these academic takes on rom comms

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Speaker 1: when they're discussing sidekicks. Yes, they talk about women, but

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Speaker 1: so much of it focuses on men, masculinity and toying

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Speaker 1: with sexuality, especially when it comes to those sex comedies

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Speaker 1: of the fifties and sixties. And this is coming from

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Speaker 1: a couple of great sources. We looked at Jenna Wineman's

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Speaker 1: chapter in Reading the Bromance Home of Social Relationships and

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Speaker 1: Film and Television, and John Albertie's Masculinity in the Contemporary

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Speaker 1: Romantic Comedy Gender as Genre. But basically, Wineman writes that

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Speaker 1: these queer, straight male pairings between a fetching male lead

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Speaker 1: and a neurotic sidekick are super prevalent as a narrative

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Speaker 1: fixture in those fifties and sixties Hollywood sex comedies, And

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Speaker 1: there's even an industry term for these dude sidekicks the

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Speaker 1: Second Banana, which I really enjoy. But so you know,

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Speaker 1: we talked in our earlier episodes about how a lot

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Speaker 1: of the tension in these movies, particularly those fifties and

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Speaker 1: sixties sex comedies that were happening during the Hayese Code

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Speaker 1: during since Ship, a lot of the tension came from

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Speaker 1: that conflict between the dapper playboy who wants to avoid

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Speaker 1: marriage and the British career woman who is not going

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Speaker 1: to put out without a ring. And so the role

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Speaker 1: that these sidekicks filth, especially for the male character, is

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Speaker 1: to give us more insight into their true character, their

421
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: true wishes, and to let them blow off steam. And

422
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: so the actors whose names are frequently dropped when these

423
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 1: rom com scholars are discussing this trend are Gig Young

424
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 1: and Tony Randall. Wyman writes about how these guys basically

425
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 1: played sexually ambiguous sidekick characters during this period, as the

426
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: Second Banana to the Carry Grant or the Rock Hudson,

427
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: and well sin sexually ambiguous is kind of ironic to

428
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 1: because Tony Randall was indeed gay, um as was Rock Hudson.

429
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: But I think because a lot of those sex comedies

430
00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: involved so much deception, as do so many rom coms.

431
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: These second bananas were really important for the audience to

432
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 1: really know what the playboy was up to, because otherwise

433
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 1: he would be completely unlikable. He would just be a

434
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: super duper creep. I mean in a lot of ways

435
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: watching them now as a thirty two year old feminist,

436
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: they're super duper creeps. Um, but they are always emasculated too.

437
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 1: Like on the one hand, they they're kind of the

438
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: whole package. Like gig Young from the movies I've seen

439
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: of his that I can remember, is a little bit

440
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 1: more interesting because unlike Tony Randall, gig Young is a

441
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: little more conventionally attractive, but he is still like more

442
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 1: vanilla than the playboys, so you can tell he's not

443
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: quite as dangerous. And there's something about him that Doris

444
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: Day just doesn't feel like it is quite good enough

445
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: for her. But obviously she can't go for the playboy

446
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: because he too dangerous. Um. So a lot of times

447
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 1: with those playboy kinds of movies, the character, like a

448
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 1: rock Hudson, has to soften his sexuality in order to

449
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 1: court a Doris Day. He'll put on a pair of glasses,

450
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: he'll lower his voice and pretend that he really doesn't

451
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: actually want to have sex with her as soon as possible,

452
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 1: and so I be I believe it's Alberti, one of

453
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: our romcom scholars, who suggests that these kinds of second bananas,

454
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 1: the gig Youngs and the Tony Randall's still prop up

455
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: rock Hudson at All's virility, even while they're kind of

456
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: having to downplay it because it's like, oh, well, we

457
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: know that that he's still you know, he's still sexy

458
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: even though he's he's pretending not to be quite as much.

459
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: But the interesting thing with gig Young is in the

460
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: movie Desk Set, which is one of my favorites, starring

461
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: Katherine Hepburn and spend Sir Tracy, he is. Gig Young

462
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: plays Katherine Hepburn's fiancee, and he is way more attractive

463
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: than Spencer Tracy. I've never really gotten Spencer Tracy thing.

464
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: I mean, he's like kind of charming, but like seriously, uh.

465
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: And the moment though where things finally flip, where Katherine

466
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: Hepburn is done with gig Young and it's like, I'm

467
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: not going to marry you is not because he is

468
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: not as interesting as the very charming and what he

469
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: Spencer Tracy. But because he give Young's character ends up

470
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: slutge shaming Katherine Hepburn. Yeah, and Spencer Tracy is like

471
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: and so it was with that like his his masculinity

472
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: became like too threatened, which was kind of a flip

473
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: of more of the emasculated Tony Randall character, who's like,

474
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 1: I'm so nervous about everything, I gotta see my analyst. Yeah,

475
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: And so it does provide that comparison for ADDI ins

476
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: is to look at you and say, Okay, well you're

477
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: too neurotic, weird, strange, nervous in the case of Tony Randall,

478
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: and so look at how handsome and capable that playboy,

479
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: especially when he's masquerading as a more sensitive guy is well.

480
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: And because of the time too, with these sex comedies,

481
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: you're still dancing around sex. It's all all has to

482
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: be hinted at. And you're also dancing around sexual orientation too. Yes,

483
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: that's something that Albertie writes about as far as the

484
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: emasculated sidekick uh displaying a collapse of masculinity that he

485
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: says enables queer possibilities. And then Alberti goes on to

486
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: write about how the sidekick can actually serve in addition

487
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: to all of the other purposes of helping further the

488
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: storyline get at the leading man's true motivations. He also

489
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: might introduce a little bit of tension or conflict with

490
00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: the leading lady in competing with her for the needs attention.

491
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, as soon as like uh, Rock Hudson sees

492
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: a gig Young on Doris Day's arm, He's like, oh, well,

493
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: now I want to put some effort into it. Let

494
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: me put on my glasses and soften my voice a

495
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: little bit. Yeah. One example is gig Young's character Roger

496
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: in the film That Touch of Make He is often

497
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: mistaken by the heroine's friends as the playboy hero who's

498
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: actually played by Carrie Grant this guy Philip. But tempering

499
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: that potential mistake is the fact that gig Young's analyst

500
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,239
Speaker 1: believes that his character is gay. Ha ha. Can you

501
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: imagine slap stick? Another example is in the movie Artists

502
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: and Models from nineteen fifty three. You've got Dean Martin's

503
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: character who wants to move out of the apartment in

504
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: the bedroom that he shares with Eugene full Stack played

505
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: by Jerry Lewis is the sounding like a total burden

506
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: ernie situation. Uh, and so well they really hand it

507
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: up because Eugene is standing in the doorway wearing an apron.

508
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: He's crying because Rick is leaving. Rick's packing his suitcase

509
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: saying that divorce is the only way out, but Rick

510
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: ends up not going through with it. He takes all

511
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: of his clothes out of the suitcase and Eugene is

512
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: shown smiling gratefully through his tears. And it, I mean

513
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: it's exactly a play on like a more domestic man

514
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: and woman marriage situation. Yeah, the whole series of Dean

515
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: Martin and Jerry Lewis films would be way more homo

516
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: erotic if Jerry Lewis weren't such a second banana where

517
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: it's like there's no, no, no, there's no way that

518
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: Dean Martin is into that. Um. But you do see

519
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: this turned on its head a little bit with Annie Hall,

520
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: where Woody Allen's character Alvi is of course the neurotic

521
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 1: mess as the leading man, while you have his sidekick

522
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: Rob played by Tony Roberts, of being the suave, handsome,

523
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: level headed masculine man who kind of reflects Alvi's idealized dude. Yeah,

524
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: and I love that they were such a pair. Roberts

525
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: went on to hold similar roles in Play It Again,

526
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,959
Speaker 1: Sam Hannah and Her Sisters and Star Dust Memories. He

527
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: was basically the the alpha handsome man dude in all

528
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: of uh Woody Allen's neurotic love comedies. I hope that

529
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: that's what his Hollywood business cards some of the time,

530
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: alpha handsome man dude service for higher He did have

531
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: a good beard all that. You know. His hair was curly,

532
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: so it's just like a ring of curls around his

533
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: entire head. It's gonna who's the gentle painting bob Ra

534
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: has got a very bob Ra look. Gentle painting. Well,

535
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: we're going to get into more gentlemen, uh, namely in

536
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: the slacker dude comedy genre. When we come right back

537
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: from a quick break, Caroline, why go to the store

538
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,880
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543
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553
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554
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555
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556
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562
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 1: it comes to the relationships between the leading guy and

563
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 1: his second banana, one of the most recent developments would

564
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 1: be the bromance between the two because thankfully there is

565
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: not as much you know, homophobia at work behind the

566
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 1: scenes as there would have been in those sex comedies

567
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 1: of the fifties and sixties. Um, and there's more room

568
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:15,399
Speaker 1: now for these men to have actual relationships with each other. Yeah,

569
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: and I do think that there's something you know, we

570
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: talked about this way back when Kristin in our romance episode,

571
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: But there seems to be more of an acceptance of

572
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: dudes loving each other, hanging out, snuggling, having a little

573
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 1: snuggle parties. And that comes through in movies like I

574
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: Love You Man, where two men telling each other they

575
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: loved each other would have been unthinkable in a Rock

576
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: Hudson movie. And I'm also gonna say it again, Magic Mike,

577
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 1: I think is a rom com, but it's totally a

578
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 1: brom com. Those guys just love each other. They'll oil

579
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 1: each other up and it is not awkward. They wrestle,

580
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,040
Speaker 1: they hug, they love. Um. There's also You Me and

581
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: Dupri that fits into that as well. With um Luke

582
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: Wilson Nope, Owen Wilson always getting mixed up and like

583
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 1: which one has the crooked nose? Oh yes, Owen right,

584
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: Owen Wilson where he is not so much in love

585
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 1: with Kate Hudson. He doesn't show up for her but

586
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 1: for uh the fella. And no matter how much more

587
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: comfortable we and these male characters are getting with expressing

588
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 1: bro love and having these homosocial relationships, uh, they still

589
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:38,240
Speaker 1: have in common with the sex comedies. The immaturity. Uh. Granted,

590
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 1: with Rock Hudson or Carrie Grant, it was not so

591
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,799
Speaker 1: much immatureity as we think about it. It was more

592
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,359
Speaker 1: like marriage is death, and I don't want to give

593
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: up my bachelor lifestyle, whereas now it's like immaturity is

594
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 1: more likely to reflect Uh, you know, I smoke pot

595
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 1: and maybe I don't have a full time job or

596
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm just a cookie I who's never

597
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: been in a serious relationship. Yeah, And the whole thing

598
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:06,919
Speaker 1: of you don't want to become boring and you don't

599
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:08,879
Speaker 1: want to become one of those people with kids, which

600
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 1: I think isn't that even a movie? People with kids?

601
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 1: I have no idea you're listening so many movies that

602
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: now I haven't seen. Wow. I really think that this

603
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 1: series has helped my pop cultural knowledge just escalate. I know,

604
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: we can have so many conversations at parties now if

605
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 1: people would just invite us. So, who wants to talk

606
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: about sex comedies of the nineteen fifties? Muriel? You know, okay?

607
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 1: Is it Muriel Muriel's wedding? And then Rachel Griffith's is

608
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: the sidekick in that movie? I don't know, See, I've

609
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: got so much random stuff rat Ratlin around up there now. Um.

610
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: But yeah, basically, if we if we go to romcom

611
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 1: scholar Jenna Wineman, she says that what the sex comedies

612
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,320
Speaker 1: and the bromances have in common is the quote narrative

613
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 1: privileging of the immature maile, his homosocial bonds and his

614
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 1: strange trajectory into proper adulthood. But there's not as much

615
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: focus on fixing the immature dude. Nobody's like telling him

616
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,800
Speaker 1: necessarily to stop smoking pot or like get married or whatever.

617
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: But you still have the focus on the relationship, obviously

618
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: because it's a rom com. But you also don't lose

619
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 1: the second banana. The immature guy gets to keep his

620
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: second banana and his bond and have the lady. Yeah,

621
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: because I think there's also just more generally a focus

622
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: on the importance of our friendships. It's like who who

623
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 1: wants to know? Just like the couple who only knows

624
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 1: each other, you know what I mean. It's kind of

625
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 1: like an old school when Will Ferrell's character is married

626
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: and he's like, oh, yeah, I've got a big Saturday planned,

627
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,359
Speaker 1: going to a bed bath and beyond it's gonna be

628
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 1: gonna be pretty wild. It's like, it's like that is

629
00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 1: the nightmare these days. Although for the record older that

630
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 1: I've gotten yes, and early weekend morning trip to a

631
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: home depots rather nice. Yeah. No, boyfriend and I are

632
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 1: the same, minus the early like we can't get out

633
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: about the same our lives, and then we have to

634
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 1: sit around drinking coffee and then it's like two o'clock

635
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: and it's like, you want to go to home depot,

636
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: and then we're enraged because there's traffic and a million

637
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,800
Speaker 1: people at home depot. Also, I shouldn't stay home depot.

638
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 1: I should say your local gardening supply store exactly. And

639
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 1: speaking of small Kristen, I like this transition. I've got

640
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: a subset, which means a smaller portion of a of

641
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,879
Speaker 1: a set. I'm following. Yeah here, I am uh rom

642
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: com scholar Billy Murnett, who has a rom com blog

643
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: which I highly recommend you look at. Um what's it called?

644
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 1: Uh well, oh, it's called Living the Romantic Comedy. I

645
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,280
Speaker 1: love it, So there you go. You can do the google.

646
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: But he talks about the snide kick. We mentioned the

647
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 1: nine kick earlier, but he talks about people like Nick

648
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 1: Frost's carer ed in Shaun of the Dead, Bill Murray's

649
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: character and TITSI, Jason Lee as Banky and chasing Amy,

650
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: and Brittany Murphy who we talked about turns into a

651
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: snide kick once she finds herself. And these are people

652
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:18,800
Speaker 1: who they go beyond just supporting the leading woman or

653
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 1: leading man, going beyond being a sounding board into highlighting

654
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 1: the lead character's decisions or mistakes or whatever by being

655
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 1: a complete snarky jerk. And you know, Murder at one

656
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 1: point in this blog post argues that you know, sarcasm

657
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: is their primary function, and maybe they don't have as

658
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: big a role as other sidekicks. They're not as much

659
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 1: of a driving plot device. I would say that I disagree,

660
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:49,280
Speaker 1: especially for Nick Frost's character in Shaun of the Dead,

661
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 1: who is a massive, massive plot driver, especially at the end. Anyway,

662
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: I don't want to spoil Shaun of the Dead face

663
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 1: romcomb dude, totally. I mean it's a total bromance. But

664
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: the whole time Sean is trying to save his lady

665
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,320
Speaker 1: love and get with her, and like the whole movie

666
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 1: as like zombies are attacking them, He's doing everything he

667
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,720
Speaker 1: can to like save her and charm her and show

668
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 1: that he's the hero. I had never thought of it

669
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: that way. Oh, totally a rom com. I love me

670
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 1: some Simon Peg And also I just love the scene

671
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:24,800
Speaker 1: in that movie where they're in the pub and Queen

672
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:26,919
Speaker 1: is playing into the beat of the Queen song they're

673
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: beating up the zombie. Any who. Uh yeah, I think

674
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 1: Shaun of the Dead is an excellent example of the

675
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 1: bromance with the slacker second banana and also being a

676
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 1: traditional rom com and a snidekick and ed Ed is

677
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 1: a snide kick, yes, But then of course, beyond the

678
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:50,320
Speaker 1: subset of snyde kick, you've also got what is unfortunately

679
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: a subset of a best friend who is a person

680
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: of color. Yeah, the old token black friend. Yeah, token

681
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 1: black friend, token John Show. Because people aren't put that

682
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 1: many Asian characters in films either. As the leading person.

683
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 1: Ashley Rees Overett Girl, I wrote a lot about this

684
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 1: and pointed out that you've got like, oh, I don't know,

685
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: like a Cadeem Hardison who plays Felix and Maid of Honor,

686
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 1: or to make a Fraser in Head over Heels who

687
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: plays Holly. But they basically serve I mean, we're not

688
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: telling you anything you don't know, but they're a way

689
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 1: to introduce diversity without having to invest too much into

690
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: a character. Yeah. So it's like Dave Chappelle in You've

691
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: Got Mail is Tom Hanks's sidekick, and from what I

692
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 1: can remember, he was the only person of color with

693
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 1: a speaking role in the whole film. But more recently,

694
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: you've got Lebron James and train Wreck, who is really funny.

695
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: I gotta say he's one of the funniest athlete comedians

696
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 1: that I've seen lately. Um. And maybe because the film

697
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: is so intention knowl in a lot of the tropes

698
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: that it's playing on and busting up, perhaps that was

699
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: a deliberate choice. Um, But Lebron definitely felt like it

700
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 1: in some ways because it's not like Amy Schumer has

701
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 1: a diverse cast of friends, right, yeah, exactly, No, I loved, Yeah,

702
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 1: I love Lebron's character in that movie. But you know

703
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 1: that relying on the sidekick, the second banana to be

704
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 1: a person of color, it's just a way of like

705
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 1: checking off a box and not having to to think

706
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: about it much more, because there is that tipping point

707
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 1: that so many people in Hollywood talk about of uh,

708
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 1: you know, like one black friend is fine, but like

709
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 1: you can't have a second black friend, and you certainly

710
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 1: can't have a black protagonist and like a second black

711
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,360
Speaker 1: person in a leading role because if you look at Hitch,

712
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: there's so much written about Hitch for instance, And we're

713
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 1: going to talk about this, all of this these racial

714
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,760
Speaker 1: issues in our next episode, but like, ah, the leading

715
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 1: man is black. We can't have a black leading lady

716
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 1: because it's a black movie. But if you have a

717
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: white leading lady, then it's an interracial romance, which is

718
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 1: even more taboo for Hollywood. Again, we're just spoiling the

719
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: next installment of our romcom series. But yeah, I mean

720
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: so if you look at it according to gender, though,

721
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:16,280
Speaker 1: I mean like you've got black men playing the super

722
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 1: chill spirit guide basically to the nervous white man leading man. Uh.

723
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 1: But of course, black women who are in the best

724
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:28,320
Speaker 1: friend role so many times have to play that sassy

725
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: black woman or angry black woman sidekick character, which sucks

726
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,760
Speaker 1: because actually, Reese points out like this can so easily

727
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: veer off into playing off of stereotypes about the angry

728
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 1: black woman and the character ending up being treated as

729
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 1: nothing more than a caricature. Well and I think, uh,

730
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 1: for me at least, one of the most cringe worthy

731
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 1: examples of that is Jennifer Hudson in the first Sex

732
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 1: in the City movie, where there was almost a record

733
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: scratch when she you know, walks on screen because it's like, we, ah,

734
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 1: really are we going to do that? Like nothing against

735
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: Jennifer Hudson's acting capabilities, but the way that she was

736
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 1: played and the bits of wisdom that she would, you know,

737
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,800
Speaker 1: drop for Carrie Bradshaw here and there. I was like, oh,

738
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:22,280
Speaker 1: come on, oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. So if whether they're

739
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: forced to be the sassy sidekick or not, they often

740
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,359
Speaker 1: have to help the white ladies transformation, and so yeah,

741
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:33,360
Speaker 1: you do have Jennifer Hudson straightening Carrie Bradshaw's life out.

742
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 1: You also have Carrie Washington's character and save the Last Dance, uh,

743
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 1: straightening out Julia stiles Is life and her fashion choices

744
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 1: so that Julius Styles can go to the club and

745
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 1: be a successful dancer, although maybe slightly to redeem sex

746
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 1: in the City. Carrie bradshawd does help Jennifer Hudson's character

747
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 1: work out her life, love life and get back with

748
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: her I think ex fiance. So at least at least

749
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:05,320
Speaker 1: she gets something sort of of a backstory that's true.

750
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 1: She gets like a bit of a story. Yeah, good,

751
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 1: well that's good. Um, And I love though that. Tina

752
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 1: Fey mocked this in that episode of thirty Rock where

753
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,240
Speaker 1: she's on the airplane and she's taken so many anti

754
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 1: anxiety pills that she hallucinates that she's sitting next to

755
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: Oprah and spills all of her life problems, all of

756
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:29,800
Speaker 1: her white lady life problems to Guru Oprah, only to

757
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 1: then be revealed that actually she's just high and it's

758
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:37,280
Speaker 1: a teen girl sitting next to her. Tina so perfect,

759
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 1: you know. Uh. One thing that I really love about

760
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 1: Kimmi Schmidt, which again to go to TV, off the

761
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 1: big screen to the small screen, is that Titus Andromedon

762
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 1: could be a sidekick if the writers were not as

763
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 1: smart as they are. He yes, because he gets his

764
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:02,399
Speaker 1: own fabulous, amazing, wonder whole hilarious stories. Yeah, I love

765
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 1: him so much. Otherwise he would totally fall into the

766
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 1: token gay guy, because that's come up so many times.

767
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,800
Speaker 1: Hello Rupert Everett in My best Friend's Wedding. Yes, I

768
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: did have a crush on Okay, I did, oh god, Yeah,

769
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 1: because he he was starring with with Dermott mill ding

770
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 1: Dong in that movie, right, yes, Delmont with Dilmot mcdodley. Yes,

771
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 1: I mean, and there's a whole movie about that though,

772
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 1: with Jennifer Anderson and Paul Read the Object of my affection. Yeah,

773
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 1: which is it's a toughie to watch awkward because again

774
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: it's like, well, if Paul Red were my roommate, that

775
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 1: I need to move out because he's so handsome. He's

776
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 1: aunt man. But you know not not every gay sidekick

777
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: can be aunt man. But the gay sidekick is typically

778
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: in the in the exact same way that the token

779
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 1: black friend is. The way to check off the diversity

780
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 1: box the gay best friend or gay sidekick. Uh. And

781
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 1: do we have a whole episode about this too? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,

782
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,399
Speaker 1: they gave best friend totally. Um. And they're a way

783
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 1: to like introduce or deal with LGBT issues without having

784
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: to make it the central theme of the film, like,

785
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 1: oh god, we don't want to make a gay rom com.

786
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 1: Who's gonna watch that? But it also makes the protagonist

787
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 1: interesting because look, she has diverse friends. Um. And I

788
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:37,399
Speaker 1: would think that both Stanley Tucci and the devil Wares

789
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 1: product and Elijah Wood and Celeste and Jesse Forever play

790
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 1: similar kinds of not necessarily gay best friend roles, but

791
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:50,839
Speaker 1: more of the gay guru who at some point like

792
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 1: grabs protagonists by the shoulders figuratively and it's like, listen,

793
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:59,959
Speaker 1: I'm going to like tell you what you're doing right now,

794
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 1: and you're going to listen to me because there is

795
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 1: no sexual tension between us, and you know that what

796
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 1: I'm telling you is like purely motivated. Yeah. And so

797
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 1: I mean by having a gay best friend and having

798
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:20,919
Speaker 1: like a gay spirit guide, that's that definitely feels exploitive,

799
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 1: saying with having like a token black sidekick who's some

800
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 1: kind of magical spirit guide. But that's also one of

801
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 1: the roles that the sidekick trope is supposed to fulfill,

802
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 1: no matter the background. Yeah, I mean, and I didn't.

803
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 1: I didn't feel like Tucci or Woods roles were exploited necessarily.

804
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: It's just it seems like they're that that um sexuality

805
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: or sexual orientation I should say, is played with in

806
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,759
Speaker 1: a way that like they that's the conduit, like you know,

807
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,320
Speaker 1: because they're the ones who are able to call bs

808
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 1: on things, because it's like, listen, I have I have

809
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 1: no ulterior motives in any of this, Like you're you're

810
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 1: just being ridiculous right now. Yeah, And I think I

811
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,360
Speaker 1: think where some of the discomfort comes from. It's just

812
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:15,319
Speaker 1: the history, honestly, just the history of the way that

813
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:20,320
Speaker 1: black sidekicks and gay side or you know, ambiguous like

814
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 1: Tony Randall's. Yeah, the way that these people were portrayed

815
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 1: as sidekicks in throughout history in cinema has not always

816
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 1: been very pure. And so like it's great that you know,

817
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 1: a leading man can have a gay best friend and

818
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 1: it's not even an issue. It's like literally not even

819
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 1: a plot device at all. It's just it just is uh.

820
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:48,319
Speaker 1: But some of those tropes origins are not so great well,

821
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 1: and that's why I'm glad that the final two episodes

822
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 1: of our romcom series are going to focus on people

823
00:51:55,440 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 1: of color and romcoms and also LGBT raw comms. Um

824
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 1: to see what happens when those characters become less of

825
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:09,800
Speaker 1: tropes and more like fully fleshed out characters. But before

826
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 1: we bid a faun farewell to our sidekicks, Caroline, I

827
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 1: want to get your thoughts on a theory of mind

828
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 1: that I just came up with right before we came

829
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 1: into the studio that the most successful sidekick in Hollywood

830
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 1: to make the transition from sidekick to quirky leading lady

831
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 1: is none other than zoe Edi Chanel. Oh. I thought

832
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 1: you were gonna say Melissa McCarthy, but ah, yes, but

833
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:42,799
Speaker 1: not as much for Melissa McCarthy, because Zoey d was

834
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 1: the quirky sidekick in Failure to Launch. Oh God, yes

835
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 1: I didn't. I refused to see that movie, so I

836
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 1: didn't know that. Google told me, um, but now of

837
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:59,279
Speaker 1: course Google, uh here he's single. Um. But she was

838
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:05,880
Speaker 1: even able to parlay her quirky sidekick persona into a

839
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: successful romantic lead, although of course she had to get

840
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 1: a little bit edgier um for five hundred days of

841
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 1: Summer Um. But if you look at her again going

842
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 1: to the small screen on New Girl, I mean it's

843
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 1: like a sidekick starring in her own show. Adorable, so adorable.

844
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 1: So I wonder if we are now entering the era

845
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 1: of the sidekick. Oh sure, I say we are. You

846
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: know that sounds good about that. I think it's true.

847
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 1: I think that's a think piece that the Atlantic could

848
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 1: chew on. But now, listeners, who are your favorite sidekicks?

849
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 1: And what sidekicks did we leave out? I mean, we

850
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 1: didn't even mention Ducky from sixteen Candles, Poor Ducky Ducky,

851
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 1: we didn't even. We also didn't mention Rosie O'donnald and

852
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:58,359
Speaker 1: uh Sleepless in Seattle, which is kind of sad because

853
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 1: she just gets left behind. He's in Pretty and Pink

854
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 1: and any Potts is the fellow sidekick and Pretty and

855
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:09,799
Speaker 1: Pink and I just love her in that movie. Yeah. Well,

856
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 1: now I want to hear from you listeners, what are

857
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 1: all of your sidekick theories and who are all your

858
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 1: sidekick faves and which sidekicks do you think deserve their

859
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 1: own movies. Mom Stuff at house stuffworks dot Com is

860
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 1: our email address. You can also tweet us at mom stuff,

861
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 1: podcasts or messages on Facebook, and we've got a couple

862
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 1: of messages to share with you when we come right

863
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 1: back from a quick break. Trips to the post office

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Speaker 1: Go to stamps dot com before you do anything else,

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Speaker 1: click on the microphone at the top of the homepage

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Speaker 1: and type in stuff that's stamps dot com. Enter stuff

879
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 1: and now back to the show, all right. I have

880
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 1: a letter here from Anna about our STD testing episode.

881
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 1: She says, I was inspired to share my story relating

882
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 1: to sledge shaming, proud shaming, in the stigma of having

883
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 1: an STD. When I was a freshman in college, had

884
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:43,800
Speaker 1: developed a bumpy rash on my labia. It was extremely painful,

885
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 1: and my mom told me to go to an urgent

886
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 1: care center like a doctor's office, where no appointments needed.

887
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:50,399
Speaker 1: She came with me and the nurses tested my yearn

888
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:52,879
Speaker 1: for a u t I, which came out positive. At

889
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:55,279
Speaker 1: that time in my life, I had never experienced any

890
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:57,880
Speaker 1: sexual contact, so the idea of having an STD was

891
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,400
Speaker 1: out of the question. But it seemed weird for a

892
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 1: u t I to cause a rash. I began to

893
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 1: experience a weird mix of both slut shaming and prude shaming.

894
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 1: The nurses and the doctors didn't believe what I told

895
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:11,760
Speaker 1: them about my lack of sexual contact, but also judged

896
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: me for never visiting a gynecologist. I was barely eighteen.

897
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 1: The nurse told me the doctor wanted to perform a

898
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 1: pelvic exam, and I felt very much pressured into agreeing it.

899
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:23,400
Speaker 1: Was my first exam ever. I was never told that

900
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:25,319
Speaker 1: I was going to be tested until the doctor began

901
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 1: testing me for herpes, chlamydia, and GNA rhea. After the exam,

902
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 1: the doctor spoke to me alone and told me it

903
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 1: takes two weeks for the herpes test to come back,

904
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 1: but I've seen herpes before and you have it. He

905
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 1: shrugged off all my protests, not once believing what I

906
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:41,760
Speaker 1: told him. I cried the whole night through and felt

907
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:43,840
Speaker 1: like the scum of the earth for the next two weeks.

908
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 1: When the tests all came back negative, I was left

909
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:49,919
Speaker 1: with a mystery that still hasn't been solved four years later.

910
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 1: While my story has a happy ending, I very much

911
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 1: want to encourage people with STDs and s t i

912
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 1: S to remember that you were worth being loved, respected

913
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:00,680
Speaker 1: and appreciated. I told a select few people during the

914
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:03,839
Speaker 1: ordeal and was overwhelmed at the support I received. It

915
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:06,240
Speaker 1: wasn't until after it was all over that I realized

916
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 1: how wrong the whole thing was. As women, I think

917
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 1: we're usually very hesitant to be assertive at the doctor's office,

918
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:14,960
Speaker 1: But don't be afraid. I will never again leave a

919
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 1: doctor's office more confused than I was entering. Now that

920
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 1: I'm in a long term monogamous relationship, I never thought

921
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 1: that getting tested again would be important, but after my experience,

922
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 1: I will definitely be using my lab box because not

923
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:29,600
Speaker 1: only is getting tested important for personal health, but for

924
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 1: increasing aware and it's an understanding to reduce the stigma

925
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 1: about something that is so so common. I'm sorry this

926
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 1: was so long, but I feel like it's an important

927
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:40,120
Speaker 1: story to tell because women tend to face lower quality

928
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 1: healthcare as it is, and adding the stigma of an

929
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: STD can make it even worse. Because of this, my

930
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 1: lab box sounds like a genius idea. And if you

931
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 1: go to a doctor, speak up and make sure your

932
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:53,480
Speaker 1: doctor understands your questions. Well, So, thank you very much. Anna.

933
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:56,320
Speaker 1: So I've got a letter here from Hannah about our

934
00:57:56,360 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 1: episode on the Mothers of Gynecology, and Hannah writes, I'm

935
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 1: a student at the University of South Carolina, where Sims

936
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 1: is a name I've definitely heard many times, and for

937
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 1: listeners who haven't heard that episode, the Sims she refers

938
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:13,720
Speaker 1: to is Mary and Jasons, who's referred to as the

939
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:17,920
Speaker 1: father of gynecology. The main building in the women's squad

940
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 1: on campus is named after him, which if which I

941
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 1: find I roll worthy at best and gag worthy at worst.

942
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 1: There's also a large monument to him on the State

943
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 1: House Crowns just down from campus, where many times I've

944
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 1: stopped while walking around the park there. The first time

945
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 1: I saw it and saw Father of Gynecology, I couldn't

946
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:38,040
Speaker 1: believe there was a Father of gynecology. I have no

947
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 1: idea how one goes about getting a statue erected, but

948
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 1: I am all for it. I can already see how

949
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 1: those three women could be incorporated into this monument at

950
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 1: the State House. Having something be done about it in

951
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 1: the name of the women's quad building would make me

952
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:54,760
Speaker 1: so happy as well, But I know when it comes

953
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 1: to naming buildings it's all about money, which, let's face it,

954
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 1: I'm a college junior. Also, if I've and one thing

955
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 1: in my attempts at activist work in various fields my

956
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 1: last two years at USC, it's that it's complicated, in

957
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 1: an overwhelming mess. It's easy for me to get fired

958
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 1: up and say I want to make a change, to

959
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 1: see these Sims monuments, but I realize the likelihood of

960
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:17,880
Speaker 1: these things isn't great. On my own. I am, however,

961
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 1: a sort of member of the feminist collective at USC,

962
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 1: and I'm almost positive that if y'all seriously looked into

963
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:27,920
Speaker 1: getting these women some recognition at any of the monuments

964
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:34,439
Speaker 1: in South Carolina, they would be interested. Keep being amazing, well, listeners, Uh,

965
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 1: we've got one person here, Hannah, who agrees that there

966
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 1: should be some mothers of Gynecology monuments to counter Jay

967
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 1: Marian Sims father of Gynecology monuments that are all over

968
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 1: South Carolina. So if anyone knows how to make that happen,

969
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:53,720
Speaker 1: let us know. Mom Stuff at how stuff works dot

970
00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:55,960
Speaker 1: com is our email address and for links to all

971
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:58,480
Speaker 1: of our social media as well as all of our blogs, videos,

972
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 1: and podcasts with our source says. So you can learn

973
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:05,200
Speaker 1: more about rom com sidekicks. Head on over to stuff

974
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:11,320
Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You dot com for more on this

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Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff Works

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