Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to season two eighty eight,
Speaker 1: Episode one of Deadly Say Guys. It's a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: This is a podcast where we take a deep dive
Speaker 1: into America's share consciousness. And it is Monday, May twenty second,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. Where did the days go?
Speaker 2: I know, I know, I wish I knew what day
Speaker 2: it was, but I don't. You said May twenty second,
Speaker 2: May twenty second, just to confirm that. Okay, okay, just
Speaker 2: it's hard for me to keep up with other days.
Speaker 1: Mayah, Where am I? What's the day again? What's the
Speaker 1: day again? I'm sorry I didn't have to think.
Speaker 2: Well, hold on, hold on, I have to scroll because
Speaker 2: normally when we do it on Fridays and I go
Speaker 2: to the tomorrow hyperlink, it's Saturday, and I have to
Speaker 2: actually navigate to the twenty second.
Speaker 1: Here we go.
Speaker 2: It's May twenty second. You know what that means. It's
Speaker 2: International Being You Day. National Solitaire Day. Shout out to
Speaker 2: all the people on Windows like or kids in schools
Speaker 2: on the computer library who love to play Solitaire like me.
Speaker 1: World Aloma Day. That's still a thing. Yeah, tall, turn
Speaker 1: on the computer.
Speaker 2: Yeah okay, oh, man, it's one of the great pastimes.
Speaker 2: And then picking the designs like on the back of
Speaker 2: the cards. I like those, see shelf myself. It's also
Speaker 2: National Vanilla Pudding Day, so shout out to Rondasantish, National
Speaker 2: Bio Musical Instrument Day and National Maritime Day.
Speaker 1: Was it vanilla pudding that he was finger blasting?
Speaker 2: I know it was some kind of cup plastic cup
Speaker 2: pudding that he was using his fingers digital.
Speaker 1: He called it a digital spoon.
Speaker 2: I believe just to be a fancy but it's actually
Speaker 2: a digital spoon. You mean, digit says in your fingers. Yes, yes,
Speaker 2: Victor's telling us his chocolate.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's how I pictured it. Something about me and
Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis were always locked locked in together, kind of
Speaker 1: on the same page.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: My name is Jack O'Brien aka My Jack. Hosts the
Speaker 1: t d Z. Your Jack supports the ge O p
Speaker 1: My Jack drops the Daily double four Free. Your Jack
Speaker 1: released on daily Wire for a fee. My Jack thighs
Speaker 1: bigger than a bridge. Your jacks look like a little kids.
Speaker 1: Jack plumper is larger than the chargers the whole team.
Speaker 1: Your jacks they looking up scene. Jack's thighs are like supersized.
Speaker 1: Your jacks look like two fris oh man. This courtesy
Speaker 1: of Esbah Yeah, who said I could have kept going,
Speaker 1: but we all get it. He got thick af thighs. Brother,
Speaker 1: mm hm, I appreciate it. This is another rap song
Speaker 1: that I was not familiar with, Mike Yeah by Mickey Appall. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's all, it's all, It's all just stupid. It's
Speaker 1: all stupid. Miles Well, speaking of Miles, I'm thrilled to
Speaker 1: be joined as always by my co host, mister Miles
Speaker 1: Grad Miles Grand aka he.
Speaker 2: On the Floorida Tour would put in on his hand,
Speaker 2: be in a fucking disgrace with trans writes into can okay,
Speaker 2: that's about rock saying to shout out to.
Speaker 1: Race Act on the discord.
Speaker 2: We'll hit us with that wonderful tribe called Quest Award
Speaker 2: Tour mash up where we reference Rond Loick. We got
Speaker 2: it all, we got it all talented talented listeners. You
Speaker 2: know that one really got me on a tour. Well, Miles,
Speaker 2: we are thrilled to be joined by an author and
Speaker 2: podcast host ye know from her shows Crime Writers on
Speaker 2: the Netflix show You Can't make this up And these
Speaker 2: are their Stories the Law and Order podcast, which I
Speaker 2: believe I guessed it.
Speaker 1: On many years ago. Please welcome to this show, Rebecca Levoy.
Speaker 4: Where's my rap song? Come on?
Speaker 1: Where? What's your favorite?
Speaker 2: I would say, what's your favorite karaoke song?
Speaker 4: Oh? God, Kevin and I do love shack together. It's
Speaker 4: oh something.
Speaker 2: If you see a fated sign at the side of
Speaker 2: the road that says sixteen miles.
Speaker 1: To the.
Speaker 4: S, Yeah, that kind of me.
Speaker 2: I love.
Speaker 1: That's my favorite voice to do. Yeah, I gotta say
Speaker 1: his his uh level of difficulty much lower than yours,
Speaker 1: letting them.
Speaker 5: Off easy, send it like that, and I am singing.
Speaker 1: That high note I.
Speaker 4: Choose, like which girl I want to be?
Speaker 1: Man, you're like doing costume changes, switching between the two.
Speaker 4: Rip my ponytail around.
Speaker 1: She's like one of those singers, is one of the
Speaker 1: one of the great voices. Just the pipes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, really, I'm just you pulling.
Speaker 1: You're pulling that off. My My hat's off to you.
Speaker 4: No, there's like a drunken component of Carrio. You know.
Speaker 4: He doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, people don't care.
Speaker 4: I mean they do, but they don't.
Speaker 1: Right. Where are you coming to us from?
Speaker 4: I live in New Hampshire if you can believe Hampshire. Yeah,
Speaker 4: live for or.
Speaker 1: Die, that's right.
Speaker 2: There a few times I hockey like a competitive hockey,
Speaker 2: So I go to New Hampshire in the New England
Speaker 2: area a lot. So the old man on the mountain
Speaker 2: before it all it started crumbling.
Speaker 4: Oh ri ip old man.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, you hear what happened up here in the
Speaker 5: news around the old man in the mountain on the
Speaker 5: anniversary the state legislator who compared it to nine to eleven.
Speaker 1: His face falling off was compared to nine to eleven. Yes,
Speaker 1: it wasn't.
Speaker 2: Vandalism, right, it's like just natural erosion.
Speaker 4: No, it was a natural erosion.
Speaker 1: It was mother terrorism.
Speaker 5: Although my son Henry Nepo Baby podcaster put out a
Speaker 5: version of his show today called who Did five three,
Speaker 5: which is about that state legislator.
Speaker 1: Sounds very You've a reased episode of crime writers on
Speaker 1: you were talking about his the impression he does of
Speaker 1: you that cracked.
Speaker 4: Me up, which one is that it's.
Speaker 1: Like, uh, you know Bone Valley?
Speaker 4: Have you ever heard of Bone Valley?
Speaker 1: Which is a crime podcast, which.
Speaker 5: Is all I went around saying for like three months,
Speaker 5: fucking work people listen to the damn show and now
Speaker 5: it's winning awards, so it obviously worked. Whatever you got
Speaker 5: the word val I'll own it. It's not a porno podcast,
Speaker 5: even though it sounds like one. Actually pretty good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Bone Valley really could be about the San Fernando
Speaker 2: Valley's porn.
Speaker 4: It could.
Speaker 1: All right, Okay, well, Rebecca, we're going to get to
Speaker 1: know you a little bit better in a moment. First,
Speaker 1: we're going to tell our listeners a couple of the
Speaker 1: things we're talking about. First of all, we're gonna pick
Speaker 1: your brain about just true crime, the state of true crime,
Speaker 1: what our obsession with true crime means. We will talk
Speaker 1: about the amazing human ship post Elon Musk, because he's
Speaker 1: just out here ship posting in reality. And we'll probably
Speaker 1: talk about workplace drug testing, which I didn't realize was
Speaker 1: invented by the Reagans. That wasn't a thing before and
Speaker 1: in most other countries that are like, guess, not a
Speaker 1: thing period. That's weird.
Speaker 2: I was so I was so nervous when you piss
Speaker 2: tested me, when you first wanted me to like attention
Speaker 2: to work with you on the pod.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that it was just like a I
Speaker 1: was kink of mine. Well, and I'm also just glad.
Speaker 2: That like you were chilled, you clearly didn't say anything
Speaker 2: the fact that's putting lemonade in the cup. Yeah, all right, cool,
Speaker 2: looks good. Well, I think, uh, we're good.
Speaker 1: We're good here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just take it to the lab really quick. And
Speaker 2: you you turned your back and then you burked. I
Speaker 2: think gross. All good, all that plenty more.
Speaker 1: But first, Rebecca, we like to ask our guests, what
Speaker 1: is something from your search history that's revealing about who
Speaker 1: you are?
Speaker 5: I have my search history right now. Why does my
Speaker 5: dog eat grassed when he feels sick?
Speaker 1: Classic?
Speaker 4: I also have what does disavow mean?
Speaker 5: Which is it like one of those things where like
Speaker 5: you're writing something or doing something and you're like, sure,
Speaker 5: you one hundred percent know what a word means, but
Speaker 5: then when you use it.
Speaker 4: You're like, am I using that right? And my fucking
Speaker 4: stupid exactly exactly?
Speaker 5: Yeah, So I have Those were my two most recent
Speaker 5: search terms, and they obviously go together very well.
Speaker 1: And was this just a casual text message where you
Speaker 1: were using the word disavow?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 5: No, I actually did an event on Wednesday night with
Speaker 5: uh I work on the my day job.
Speaker 4: I work in Hampshire Public Radio.
Speaker 5: We did bear Brook and we had an event and
Speaker 5: I was hosting it and like I was talking about
Speaker 5: somebody disavowing their role like in a wrongful conviction. But
Speaker 5: I was like writing the script and I was like disavow.
Speaker 5: I don't know, so I was, you know, I wasn't
Speaker 5: gonna be free was I don't know it was. I
Speaker 5: don't want to be stupid, so looked it up. Yeah,
Speaker 5: it was right, it was right.
Speaker 4: I knew it was right.
Speaker 1: But you know, why wait?
Speaker 2: Why do I know dogs eat they eat the grass
Speaker 2: to like help them vomit.
Speaker 5: Right, yes, but I have a dog that he gets
Speaker 5: sick so often. He's a like wheat and terrier, very
Speaker 5: sensitive stomach situation. And you know, so we're at the
Speaker 5: point now Whe're like he just wants to go out
Speaker 5: and need grass. Don't take him out them. And at
Speaker 5: one point when he was he was young, we had
Speaker 5: just mowed the lawn and he ate all the grass
Speaker 5: on the moje lawn and they made a giant ball
Speaker 5: in his stomach and he had to have surgery to
Speaker 5: get it. Oh no, so I actually, but he's twelve
Speaker 5: now and it's never occurred to me to like look
Speaker 5: up why. I was just like, he's going to be dead,
Speaker 5: and I, well then have looked it up. But no,
Speaker 5: it's just because like they don't really know. Either it
Speaker 5: makes them want to throw up or it sues their stomach,
Speaker 5: but apparently it's not that bad for him unless they
Speaker 5: eat right after you mow your lawn, which don't.
Speaker 2: You that, Yeah, don't just don't leave it all out
Speaker 2: there for all you neat grass buffet, don't do that.
Speaker 1: Turns out I was right about disavow because I was like, uh,
Speaker 1: maybe I've had it wrong exactly. It's responsibility or support.
Speaker 4: For right right.
Speaker 5: It's not like non plus, which literally everybody uses the
Speaker 5: everybody yeah, to.
Speaker 1: The point that I think we can just all start
Speaker 1: using no. No.
Speaker 5: I think actually I think the dictionary people actually just
Speaker 5: allowed that. And that actually pisses me off because yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: I'm snob about stuff like that usually, except that, like
Speaker 5: that's one where it's like, come on, get your shit together,
Speaker 5: nonplust people, get your shit together.
Speaker 1: I don't like it, so I'll say I was nonplussed.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, right, you cannot you cannot take any more.
Speaker 4: You're non plussed out of your mind.
Speaker 1: So the yeah, the dictionary Oxford Dictionary has surprised and
Speaker 1: confused so much that they're unsure how to react. As
Speaker 1: the number one meaning and then number two of a
Speaker 1: person not disconcerted, unperturbed. And this is informal North Americans.
Speaker 1: They're just like, we gotta, we just gotta, like, let
Speaker 1: the North Americans fuck this up.
Speaker 4: It's the dummy definition.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what is something that you think is overrated besides sandwiches? Yes? Wow?
Speaker 4: Quitting Twitter and indignation overrated?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Yeah you know why? Yeah, because no one noticed? Is
Speaker 5: when you stop doing something, no one, no one notices. Yeah,
Speaker 5: And like every social media platform sucks in its own
Speaker 5: special way. Every I mean Elon obviously Extra sucks, which
Speaker 5: I guess we're going to be talking about, but like
Speaker 5: no one notices when you stop doing something. I've seen
Speaker 5: a specific news organization that I may or may not
Speaker 5: have a loose affiliation with, you know, quit in a.
Speaker 4: Very public way.
Speaker 5: My my news outlet did too, and I you know
Speaker 5: didn't make us quit, you know, or the reporters of
Speaker 5: that news organization quit. But I'm like, what an opportunity
Speaker 5: you had when you're actually being talked about to do
Speaker 5: something else with this besides just stop doing anything, right
Speaker 5: and now, like you're not doing anything with it, Like
Speaker 5: you could have raised money, you could have like top
Speaker 5: people with journalism is but like when you're not doing anything,
Speaker 5: nobody notices you're not doing anything. So I just think
Speaker 5: that there's like taking your toy. Remember it happened with
Speaker 5: Reddit like a bunch of years ago, Like what happened
Speaker 5: with that? Nothing like nothing, So I don't know. I
Speaker 5: just I just think that there's some like a little
Speaker 5: bit of just like virtue signaling nothing burgeress in quitting
Speaker 5: Twitter and indignation right now. I mean maybe someday it
Speaker 5: will be important, but to me it's a little bit overrated.
Speaker 4: I'm sorry if either one of you did that. And
Speaker 4: I just like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's like twelve to thirteen times a day about I'm
Speaker 1: quitting Twitter. Yeah, each post is like that's it you've
Speaker 1: done at this time, musk. But yeah, I guess the
Speaker 1: fact that I've been doing that for three months now, probably.
Speaker 2: I'll never quit because I never thought I would have
Speaker 2: this many followers and I like to look at the number.
Speaker 2: Why would I do that now? At the top of
Speaker 2: my game.
Speaker 1: I'm true, and may I say to the followers, you guys,
Speaker 1: stop quitting because it's making our numbers go down. What
Speaker 1: fuck that makes us sad? You're burning me?
Speaker 2: You burned me listeners who quit Twitter?
Speaker 1: My number went down, Like Jack.
Speaker 5: I was looking at your following number. You're like about
Speaker 5: twice as many as me. Like I could fill like
Speaker 5: a small college football stadium, you could feel like a
Speaker 5: big college football stadium. Like you couldn't like show up
Speaker 5: somewhere and like forty five thousand people would show up,
Speaker 5: right right, that's true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're all very loyal too.
Speaker 5: And they're all real people.
Speaker 1: The bonds of mine. Yeah, them robots and they're all
Speaker 1: they're all real. Yeah, they love me like family members.
Speaker 1: I have a forty five thousand person family.
Speaker 5: They're not going to hang out flags in front of
Speaker 5: their house after they graduate. You.
Speaker 2: It's weird how I can get twelve thousand of them
Speaker 2: to say the exact same thing to me at the
Speaker 2: same time. Yeah, what's there? That's how that's all on
Speaker 2: the same page.
Speaker 1: They are. Wait, and then sandwiches are overrated? You just
Speaker 1: kind of skip past that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I sandwiches to bear the lead.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all sandwiches.
Speaker 5: Sandwiches, well, not real cheese, obviously.
Speaker 1: I like, obvious, obviously not one of the three most
Speaker 1: popular sandwiches.
Speaker 5: The world's greatest hangover food is obviously not overrated. Okay, okay,
Speaker 5: but yeah, I don't get I just I've never understood
Speaker 5: like the obsession with sandwiches. I know people love sandwiches
Speaker 5: for me personally, sure, No, I'm not.
Speaker 2: It's like the mania, like sandwich mania that's overrated or I.
Speaker 5: Just I just I don't understand, like when people are like, oh,
Speaker 5: we're going to bring in lunch for this meeting, bringing
Speaker 5: in sandwiches, and everyone's like yeah, and I'm like yeah,
Speaker 5: right right, pizza, yeah, sandwiches. No, Like it's just the
Speaker 5: stuff in the middle is a good part, and like
Speaker 5: I have to get through the ship on the outside
Speaker 5: to get to.
Speaker 4: Stuff in the middle.
Speaker 2: You're almost like Trump with pizza, You're like, nah, not,
Speaker 2: the bread is just the top part.
Speaker 1: Scrape it off.
Speaker 4: Thank you, Thank you for that very complimentary comparison.
Speaker 2: I get that, look, I get the sort of singular
Speaker 2: focus though it's just sort of like no, no, no,
Speaker 2: that's filler. You want the meats and the cheeses right there.
Speaker 5: That's the fucking I'm just not a huge, huge bread person.
Speaker 5: I mean, I'm not like anti carbs. I fucking love carbs,
Speaker 5: but I'm not like when people who's.
Speaker 4: Like, I love bread, right, and then people are.
Speaker 5: Always like, you'll love it if you have the bread
Speaker 5: I make, And then I'm like, no, one fucking won't,
Speaker 5: Like I don't really, It's like, it's just it's just bread.
Speaker 5: It's just like it's not a special. It's just my opinion.
Speaker 5: It's my opinion. Not everybody agrees.
Speaker 4: It's okay.
Speaker 5: I have had I have had great bread. Get me,
Speaker 5: don't get me wrong. There is bread it's better than
Speaker 5: other bread.
Speaker 4: I believe that.
Speaker 1: Have you tried the they there's this thing that I
Speaker 1: have out here in La called sliced bread where they yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not just one big hunk. It's really the greatest thing.
Speaker 4: It doesn't come out of a stone oven. It's not artisanal.
Speaker 1: Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 2: Wonder that's it? That's good stuff. Have you tried to
Speaker 2: wonder the stuff?
Speaker 1: Slice bread gets so much credit from people all the time.
Speaker 2: Have you seen like those clips when like Americans are
Speaker 2: amazed at like the bread slicers in Europe when you
Speaker 2: go to a store and like, oh, there's like I've
Speaker 2: just seen a genre of video, like Americans whose minds
Speaker 2: are blown buying like a loaf of bread at a
Speaker 2: European grocery store that like you can then take to
Speaker 2: a machine that just like slices it fresh.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was just gonna say coffee. Yeah you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: you just loaded in.
Speaker 2: I might be in Germany or something like that, and
Speaker 2: it just like cleanly just slices it up, so you
Speaker 2: have like good like your loaf is actually as fresh
Speaker 2: as possible or whatever, and.
Speaker 1: Wow, it just slices it right here. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: and I watched it.
Speaker 2: I'm like, come on, man, act like you're I'm like,
Speaker 2: it's just slices, right.
Speaker 5: The chill forgot Yeah yeah, act like you've been here.
Speaker 1: That shit does make it Like grinding your coffee beans
Speaker 1: right before you brew the coffee really does make a difference.
Speaker 1: I'm sure, Like, now now I want the I want
Speaker 1: a unsliced wonderbread loaf.
Speaker 2: Something that even thank you, I'll take it home just
Speaker 2: yeah with your friend and I have just doing the
Speaker 2: most uneven slices.
Speaker 5: You ever tried to cut wonderbread or like with a knife,
Speaker 5: you can't do it.
Speaker 1: It's just like but yeah, yeah, like a non Newtonian substances.
Speaker 1: Neither air is it's neither gas nor solid nor liquid. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: the knife does know what to do with it. What
Speaker 1: is something that you think is underrated?
Speaker 4: Oh it's easy HGTV underage. So here's the thing, Like,
Speaker 4: how many people watch Succession?
Speaker 1: Really?
Speaker 5: I watched Succession, don't get me wrong, but like a
Speaker 5: couple million people watch it when it's on, and then
Speaker 5: a couple of million people watch it later. Right, that's it.
Speaker 5: Forty four million people watch HGTV.
Speaker 4: I'm not kidding.
Speaker 5: Like, this is a show called Rock the Block. That's
Speaker 5: like they're one of their like big competition like prestige shows.
Speaker 5: Fourteen million people fucking watch that show. And there's no
Speaker 5: like think pieces about that shit.
Speaker 4: None. Everybody watches HGTV.
Speaker 5: Everybody has seen flip Flock, everybody has seen House Hunters,
Speaker 5: everybody has seen love It or list it, and you
Speaker 5: talk about it, you can talk about it with anyone,
Speaker 5: and everyone is conversant in HGTV and there's no fucking
Speaker 5: thing pieces about it. And it makes me crazy, it's
Speaker 5: the best.
Speaker 4: I think it's the best. Oh yeah.
Speaker 5: So it's basically like it's kind of an all stars
Speaker 5: type show where they bring on hosts of other shows
Speaker 5: and they have four very expensive houses, and over a
Speaker 5: period of six weeks they have them compete room by
Speaker 5: room to like do your best kitchen, do your best
Speaker 5: living room, do your best whatever, and then at the end,
Speaker 5: one of the team's wins, and then they name the
Speaker 5: block after that team. It's just it's a very like
Speaker 5: low stakes thing where it's just like really fun media.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, basically it's basically aspirational, but it's just
Speaker 5: just like you know, but I'll tell you it's it's
Speaker 5: it's one of the best edited because HGTV's editing is
Speaker 5: really frustrating, but it's one of the best edited shows
Speaker 5: that they make, which was makes a good sense.
Speaker 2: Right right right. I was just also reading like kind
Speaker 2: of I think piece about HGTV. But it's impact on
Speaker 2: American homes and the like just monotone aesthetic that exists
Speaker 2: now in like homes because everyone has everyone's watching the
Speaker 2: same fucking way of flipping house that like like that
Speaker 2: we've come to known that like weird gray Property Brothers
Speaker 2: or like that great like but specifically how that floor
Speaker 2: has taken over the United States thanks to like HGTV
Speaker 2: type shows.
Speaker 4: And I was like, yeah, that's theres awful. It really
Speaker 4: is that, like that like light gray vinyl thing and.
Speaker 1: Look, no shade.
Speaker 2: If that's the floor you got, just if you love it.
Speaker 4: Love it, if you love it, but you're not gonna
Speaker 4: love it, and.
Speaker 1: Like I would, it would.
Speaker 2: And it's true though that you say, like it's I've
Speaker 2: noticed even like when I've babysat like my young nieces
Speaker 2: or nephews, I could put House.
Speaker 1: Hunters on and they fuck with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, even like little kids are like like they're just
Speaker 2: like watching. I'm like, is this interesting to you? They're
Speaker 2: like they're like introduce They're all different rooms. Yeah, like
Speaker 2: different rooms in another country.
Speaker 5: I'm like, okay, cool, Yeah, international, super fun, international, super fun.
Speaker 5: It's like, did you want to live in the house
Speaker 5: that your boyfriend wants, which is twelve thousand dollars over budget?
Speaker 5: Do you want to live in the house that is
Speaker 5: exactly in budget but horribly disappointing, or do you want
Speaker 5: to live in the hovel by the beach that you
Speaker 5: have to piss outside.
Speaker 2: Which one do you want?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Always the spectrum so wacky, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it
Speaker 2: also helps for people who like if you're like, man,
Speaker 2: I got to get out of the US watch House
Speaker 2: Hunters and you're like, that's the rent over there, right,
Speaker 2: like the fuck, yeah, I'm going to live in Lisbon.
Speaker 1: There you go.
Speaker 2: All right, let's take a quick break and we'll be
Speaker 2: right back. And we're back.
Speaker 1: We're back, And Rebecca, you you spend a lot of
Speaker 1: time talking about writing about true crime as a genre,
Speaker 1: which is and it's in the news now NPR is
Speaker 1: debunking like the wave of fentanyl poisonings we were seeing
Speaker 1: from police.
Speaker 4: Did you scare quotes around fentanyl poisoning?
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, always really assume implied scare quotes around police
Speaker 1: and fentanyl.
Speaker 4: Poisoning around police and just about anything.
Speaker 1: Right exactly. So that's kind of what I wanted to
Speaker 1: just get your Like I've talked about this before on
Speaker 1: the show, but it does feel like the thing that
Speaker 1: is different about true crime just narratively, Like obviously the
Speaker 1: big differences that like between I grew up on crime
Speaker 1: shows and you know what like Law and Order or
Speaker 1: you know, movie crime movies where the police were at
Speaker 1: least competent, where there was a competent police officer who
Speaker 1: was like pushing back against the corruption and you know, inefficiencies,
Speaker 1: and then like true crime, the main myth that it
Speaker 1: seems to be debunking as a genre is that the
Speaker 1: police are ever competent and ever like there's so rarely
Speaker 1: like that the default seems to be. And then the
Speaker 1: police fucked this up, Like there were all these people
Speaker 1: who should have been interviewed, like all these things that
Speaker 1: your response as a rational human being would be like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: you'd't want to talk to that person or you'd want
Speaker 1: to follow that line of reasoning, and the police just
Speaker 1: get it wrong, like time after time after time, which
Speaker 1: I think adds to the stakes of true crime because
Speaker 1: it kind of opens people up to a reality where
Speaker 1: like the police aren't actually there to keep us safe,
Speaker 1: and so the world is much more dangerous in that respect,
Speaker 1: or at least it's like much less you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess more dangerous and less safe than like there's
Speaker 1: not this default that we've always been told there is
Speaker 1: with like you just call the police and they'll they'll
Speaker 1: handle it, and they'll make it right, Like, do you
Speaker 1: think of that as kind of a constant in true
Speaker 1: crime or like at least a narrative difference that you
Speaker 1: see repeatedly happening.
Speaker 4: Well, it's certainly a narrative difference to white people. It's
Speaker 4: not a narrative difference to people of color who've never
Speaker 4: trusted the cops very rightly because they know that they've
Speaker 4: been getting it wrong forever and ever and ever.
Speaker 5: But yeah, So the couple things going on. One is
Speaker 5: obviously police corruption. Police misconduct has obviously been sort of
Speaker 5: unveiled more in the last few years, and journalism is
Speaker 5: starting to finally catch up by not just taking the
Speaker 5: police at their word when they get a statement from
Speaker 5: the cops.
Speaker 4: They don't just print it or they don't just say
Speaker 4: police say X. They do.
Speaker 5: Still, don't get me wrong, it happens a lot on
Speaker 5: TV news, It happens a lot in like quick turn stories,
Speaker 5: but it doesn't happened times.
Speaker 4: It doesn't happen all the time. It's happening.
Speaker 5: It's happening there there is now journalism that questions it.
Speaker 5: I'm not saying it doesn't happen. But the other thing
Speaker 5: that is now sort of being unveiled is aside from
Speaker 5: misconduct and all that stuff, is that police are trained
Speaker 5: to win and close cases and not get to the truth.
Speaker 5: And it's that training and it's that system that leads
Speaker 5: to mistakes and misconduct. And you know, I have a
Speaker 5: very clear point of view on this that like some
Speaker 5: people don't agree with. It's like people think, like, you
Speaker 5: know what, he's not a bad guy. He woke up
Speaker 5: and he wouldn't wake up this morning thinking I'm gonna
Speaker 5: get the wrong guy and put the wrong guy in prison.
Speaker 5: This is just the way he was trained in the
Speaker 5: way the system works. The bottom line is if you
Speaker 5: are systemically put in the wrong guy in prison, even
Speaker 5: if you're like a good uncle, you are actually a
Speaker 5: bad guy.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's just like the way that it works.
Speaker 5: But you know, you are trained in the retechnique, You're
Speaker 5: gonna use the retechnique and you're gonna put the wrong
Speaker 5: people in prison. That's the way that it is. And
Speaker 5: it does bring me a lot of satisfaction as somebody
Speaker 5: who I don't really write anymore, but I used to
Speaker 5: write true crime books that were literally the narrative of
Speaker 5: like the police did the investigation and got it right
Speaker 5: and put the person away. But that was like two
Speaker 5: thousand and seven, two thousand and eight. Gives me a
Speaker 5: tremendous amount of satisfaction to disavow the kind of true
Speaker 5: crime shit that I used to write, because it's not real.
Speaker 5: It's just not I mean, there are earnest good investigations,
Speaker 5: but there are also a shit ton of very very
Speaker 5: bad investigations that are completely predicated on closure and getting
Speaker 5: the win.
Speaker 4: And that's what all of that is about.
Speaker 1: And does the world of policing seem to be every
Speaker 1: instance where the police are criticized, the police response seems
Speaker 1: to be belligerents? Like, are there examples where police forces
Speaker 1: are actually being like, okay, the read technique And if
Speaker 1: you could explain what the red technique is that it
Speaker 1: would be helpful, I think to Yeah.
Speaker 4: The retechnique is an interrogation technique that has been scientifically
Speaker 4: shown to elicit false confessions again and again and again.
Speaker 4: And interestingly, the retechnique was invented by this guy named
Speaker 4: John Reid the time that he used it, where it
Speaker 4: was actually that the first time he used it that
Speaker 4: it became the model for the technique he would then develop.
Speaker 4: That case ended up being a false confession case.
Speaker 1: It works so good, you can't.
Speaker 5: Make this shit up. You can't make this shit up.
Speaker 5: So that technique is actually now like a training course.
Speaker 5: It's called like the read course, and police departments use
Speaker 5: it all over the country and they say that they've
Speaker 5: developed it, they've tweaked it over time. Police officers are
Speaker 5: supposed to use it in the way that they say
Speaker 5: and that they've they've you know, softened the techniques over time.
Speaker 5: But basically what it is is they put the it
Speaker 5: specifically and really is effective on vulnerable people, on young people,
Speaker 5: on people with you know, mental illness, on people with
Speaker 5: intellectual delay. Think about Brandon Dacy for making a murderer
Speaker 5: for instance. Basically, what they do is they put people
Speaker 5: in a position where they believe they are helping the police.
Speaker 5: They lie to them, they give them bad information, they
Speaker 5: say you're on video doing X y Z, and they
Speaker 5: basically put you in a position where you believe if
Speaker 5: you say something, you're going to be in a better situation.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 5: And they also do a thing where they don't they
Speaker 5: don't record the first twelve hours of your interrogation. They
Speaker 5: only record the final hour where they've finally sort of
Speaker 5: broken you.
Speaker 4: And then they have this thing on tape and they go, look,
Speaker 4: he confessed on tape. What are you talking about?
Speaker 1: He did it?
Speaker 4: Who would ever confess on tape? But they didn't do it.
Speaker 4: That's the Rea technique.
Speaker 2: Even though for twelve hours I said, you're never going
Speaker 2: to be able to see wrestling again or go home
Speaker 2: unless you say this.
Speaker 5: Exactly or for twelve hours they say, come on, we
Speaker 5: all you know, it's like, if you just tell us this,
Speaker 5: you're helping us and you're going to maybe we'll even
Speaker 5: be able to get you a deal because that we'll.
Speaker 4: Figure something out.
Speaker 5: You know, you'll be able to have dinner, You'll be
Speaker 5: able to go home and sleep in your own bed tonight.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: It's like that's that's what That's what it's all about.
Speaker 1: And are are are you seeing any like it? I
Speaker 1: think people are maybe getting more exposure to shit like this,
Speaker 1: and like I guess on one of our sister podcasts,
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastard's about this guy, David Grossman, the director
Speaker 1: of the Killology Research Group that is like goes around
Speaker 1: and gives these speeches to police about how they should
Speaker 1: like feel comfortable killing people who make them scared. Essentially,
Speaker 1: Like there's all these just shockingly morally bankrupt training practices
Speaker 1: and just general practices in how police go about doing
Speaker 1: their jobs.
Speaker 5: Like it, Yeah, do you guys see Killing County on Netflix?
Speaker 5: This documentary Killing County. Colin Kaepernick's film company made it.
Speaker 5: It's about the county where he's from. And there's a
Speaker 5: shocking piece of footage and they're not shocking, that's surprising,
Speaker 5: but shocking. I think it's the sheriff is talking to
Speaker 5: the department and he's been basically in a training saying
Speaker 5: that it is better for the department to kill someone
Speaker 5: than wound them because if you kill them, they can't
Speaker 5: sue you, essentially what he says.
Speaker 4: Or if it's on.
Speaker 1: Hulu, right it's about Bakersfield.
Speaker 5: Yes, I think, oh, you're right, Yeah, Okay, shocking. It's
Speaker 5: like it's like and that's like if that is you
Speaker 5: know that he's not the only cop in the world who,
Speaker 5: right is walking around this way right.
Speaker 2: Right to think about the payouts too, And I'm like, yoh,
Speaker 2: pay that claim if you wound someone or.
Speaker 5: Or just arrest them or whatever. It's like, you know,
Speaker 5: it's just cheaper and quicker and cleaner.
Speaker 4: So yeah, but I.
Speaker 1: Mean we we've seen some political successes with like I mean,
Speaker 1: locally in LA there were some local elections where people
Speaker 1: voted against increasing the police budget. You know that Jacksonville
Speaker 1: just had kind of a not a like anti police
Speaker 1: or police reformists, can it? But somebody who is they
Speaker 1: were trying to paint as like a Black Lives Matter,
Speaker 1: anti police supporter, and people voted for her. Anyways, I'm
Speaker 1: just like wondering, is all the true crime that people
Speaker 1: are watching? Do you think changing anything? Or are the
Speaker 1: police just going to like kind of hunker down and
Speaker 1: you know, respond with belligerents like we've seen them do
Speaker 1: time after a time.
Speaker 5: I think it's going to take a generation, to be
Speaker 5: completely honest with you, I think it's going to be
Speaker 5: like like the kids of consumers, because it's like there's
Speaker 5: a wave of like you know, and I don't want
Speaker 5: to be gross about it, but like there's a there
Speaker 5: are millions of like middle class Midwestern women who now
Speaker 5: know what Brady violations are, who never who never thought
Speaker 5: about it before because they listened to like cereal and
Speaker 5: undisclosed and like it dark and shit right, So so
Speaker 5: like their kids might be like hearing a little bit
Speaker 5: of their outrage, and like some of their kids are
Speaker 5: going to grow up and become lawyers or whatever. So
Speaker 5: I think it's going to be gen generational. I'll tell
Speaker 5: you the elected officials thing is tough. These election cycles
Speaker 5: are short. The thing that has made a huge difference
Speaker 5: in cities and communities and states is conviction integrity units.
Speaker 5: Like Philadelphia has a conviction in tygrena with this guy
Speaker 5: Larry Krasner. What happens when there's a conviction integrity unit
Speaker 5: and shit starts getting overturned, people start getting out of prison,
Speaker 5: then there's a lot of political pressure to start looking
Speaker 5: at the system that put people there because it's embarrassing
Speaker 5: and the cities have to start writing big checks. So
Speaker 5: getting conviction integrity units set up, not only does it
Speaker 5: actually get people out of prison, which is the result
Speaker 5: you want, but also it creates like a bubble of
Speaker 5: pressure that you can't ignore because it's just there. So
Speaker 5: I think that's one of the most effective changes that
Speaker 5: I've seen happen politically, more so than electing somebody. Also,
Speaker 5: like in La you had that sheriff who pretended he
Speaker 5: was a reformist and then ended up being like a bad.
Speaker 4: Guy right in.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so you know, just election cycles are quick. People
Speaker 5: say what they're going to say and then they can't
Speaker 5: actually do anything when they're elected. But yeah, I think conviction,
Speaker 5: integrity and is I think that's where it's at, right.
Speaker 1: I also wonder if we're going to see it, like
Speaker 1: I see it bleed over into like how crime and
Speaker 1: punishment are portrayed in TV and film in general, like
Speaker 1: just this kind of new, newer realization. Like I think
Speaker 1: when when I was a kid, the like standard thing
Speaker 1: that writers had to contend with is like a constant
Speaker 1: question of like why wouldn't they just call the cops
Speaker 1: like that, you know, like that that would solve everything.
Speaker 1: And now obviously like that isn't is no longer the case,
Speaker 1: I'd imagine, But I just I wonder if we'll see
Speaker 1: less and less movies that are where it's just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's a it's a cop, and so we can
Speaker 1: assume they're kind of cool and trying to solve crimes.
Speaker 5: Yeah No, I don't think so. I mean, if you're
Speaker 5: watching the New Law and Order, there's like a lot
Speaker 5: of they're handling it very poorly, by the way, the
Speaker 5: new Law and Order, they're very much like the very beginning.
Speaker 5: When I first came back, it was like, man, we
Speaker 5: just you know, things are changing, man. And then in
Speaker 5: episode two it was like, we got to stand up
Speaker 5: for our brothers.
Speaker 1: They're under attack.
Speaker 5: Yeah, like wild, Yeah, they went from fucking red haired
Speaker 5: freak with the protest. I mean they constantly talk about
Speaker 5: it on the show, but then they just behave exactly
Speaker 5: as abominably as it was on the show.
Speaker 4: It's pretty wild.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like a lot of places are like
Speaker 2: they All they did was just kind of go into hibernation,
Speaker 2: like in the fall of twenty twenty, when a lot
Speaker 2: of people like, you know what, like live PD might
Speaker 2: be a mistake of a show, folks or sorry. And
Speaker 2: then it's like right back before we started. It's like,
Speaker 2: just wait a fucking a couple of seconds, right, We'll
Speaker 2: come back, Brooklyn nine nine will be back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right, Well, let's talk about Elon real quick.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, did a CNBC interview at the end
Speaker 1: of last week, and you know what we've seen from
Speaker 1: his Twitter persona appears to have transferred over to his
Speaker 1: actual human body persona because yeah, yeah, he's just full,
Speaker 1: full blown.
Speaker 2: He's just a human four chan shit post basically, and
Speaker 2: he really let his freak flag fly in that interview.
Speaker 2: And by freak flag, I mean swastika's because man, a
Speaker 2: lot of the interview made ways like around this is
Speaker 2: like incessant need to defend the like verified Nazi shooter
Speaker 2: from Alan, Texas. You know, the guy with like the
Speaker 2: all the Nazi tattoos and the talk of loving Nazis
Speaker 2: and how he'd rather be a Nazi than act black.
Speaker 2: When he posted that meme, like he let everybody know
Speaker 2: very clearly, you know where he stood on things, what
Speaker 2: his perspective was. Anyway, Elon, he goes off about how
Speaker 2: despite all of the evidence and even the shooter's own words,
Speaker 2: it's not right to call this like a white supremacist act.
Speaker 1: So let me let me just play this.
Speaker 2: He's he's gonna start off by talking about why he's
Speaker 2: like dubious and you can just watch his like brain
Speaker 2: start melting.
Speaker 3: And the evidence for that was some obscure Russian website
Speaker 3: that no one's ever heard of that had no followers,
Speaker 3: and the company that found this is Belling Cat, And
Speaker 3: do you know what bella Cat does. Ops.
Speaker 6: I couldn't really even follow exactly what it was you
Speaker 6: were trying to express there, So that's part why I
Speaker 6: was curious.
Speaker 3: But I'm saying that I thought that the ascribing a
Speaker 3: two whites premacy was bullshit. Okay, and and uh and
Speaker 3: and and and that the information for that came from
Speaker 3: an obscure Russian website and was somehow magically found by Bellancat,
Speaker 3: which is a company that does.
Speaker 2: Okay, so enough about that.
Speaker 4: Who is the reporter going right? Was he just a
Speaker 4: reflexively bad thing to say?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I even though he did kind of follow up,
Speaker 2: he's like, look, I only say that because I don't
Speaker 2: know what you're saying.
Speaker 1: He did, like, I don't know what you're trying to
Speaker 1: see right now, but yeah, change your reflex.
Speaker 4: Do the barbar like huh, right to change the reflex, dude,
Speaker 4: change it.
Speaker 2: It's better to just be like a Honestly, it'll force
Speaker 2: the person to really have to explain ah or say nothing, right,
Speaker 2: not that. But yeah, again, so he's saying belling Cat,
Speaker 2: which does you know real investigative journalism, they're saying they
Speaker 2: do psyops.
Speaker 1: And it's bullshit.
Speaker 2: It's bullshit that they're trying to say that this is
Speaker 2: a white supremacist.
Speaker 5: What is his horse in this race? Aside from being
Speaker 5: a white supremacist himself, What is it? What is his
Speaker 5: horse in this particular?
Speaker 2: I think probably did not give too much momentum to
Speaker 2: the not even narrative to the reality of increasing like
Speaker 2: extremist violence and the like that these people exist and
Speaker 2: they are they're acting out their ideologies in real physical
Speaker 2: space violently, because I think I don't know if he's
Speaker 2: trying to thread this needle he's like saying, like, I
Speaker 2: don't know if he's like it was a white supremacist
Speaker 2: reason why he shot those people. It might just be
Speaker 2: that he was like a white supremacist and shop It's
Speaker 2: like really not clear. But he's definitely trying to like
Speaker 2: cape for like white supremacy in this very bizarre way
Speaker 2: that's not even really clear to even the interviewer, who was.
Speaker 4: Like, okay, right, you know your interviewer is like right.
Speaker 2: Right, right, right, right right, because you know Hitler was
Speaker 2: correct about what he said, right right, right right and everything.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, that's gonna be the clip you're going
Speaker 5: to share on social media.
Speaker 2: No, absolutely not so again it's a very frustrating interview
Speaker 2: because he is truly just like lost in the sauce
Speaker 2: his face when he was like trying to even explain
Speaker 2: like the logic path of like this Russian account and
Speaker 2: belling cats, It's like he was trying to like do
Speaker 2: like a thread on at thread unrolled, like please dude,
Speaker 2: please unroll this Twitter thread in my brain so I
Speaker 2: can go find like the precise clapback reply that I
Speaker 2: need in here. And it's a shame that this didn't
Speaker 2: get like a ton of coverage. I mean, you got
Speaker 2: some coverage, but like talking about the man that owns
Speaker 2: fucking Twitter is out here showing you how vile his
Speaker 2: fucking beliefs are, like in real and like in such
Speaker 2: a even a way, like I don't know why I'm mad.
Speaker 2: I'm like, it's he's not even doing it elegantly. It's
Speaker 2: just like it's just like the raw stupidity of it.
Speaker 2: It just like makes it even more and more frustrating
Speaker 2: to see. And again it haves to be like right rightops.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the I mean, how did they not have support
Speaker 1: for the claim that like they knew he was going
Speaker 1: to try to debunk rather than just being you know, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean like, I don't even know what you're saying.
Speaker 5: Well, now, SA just unroll this a little bit because
Speaker 5: I just don't understand. So was was he even being
Speaker 5: asked about this? Because this spread on Twitter?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 4: Why is this even something he's talking about?
Speaker 2: He's been like he because he himself has been retweeting
Speaker 2: other accounts that are.
Speaker 4: Catching God God.
Speaker 5: So he's now like he's now like pot committed to
Speaker 5: this like situation where he has to defend He like
Speaker 5: why are.
Speaker 2: You Yeah, he's like, why are you using your platform
Speaker 2: to like I think, why are these even people? And
Speaker 2: then he's like, well, he's like, well, where did their
Speaker 2: evidence come from that they were white supremacists?
Speaker 1: The guy has a say off company swastika tattoos on
Speaker 1: his arm. Yeah, literally, I don't know.
Speaker 2: They he may have had his tattoo, artists may have
Speaker 2: had Glackhomas was trying to make a plus sign.
Speaker 1: I don't know. We just don't help.
Speaker 2: But like the fact that that the bolts the bolts
Speaker 2: his other tattoo or SS bolts, Yes.
Speaker 4: No, those are Celtic runes.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, exactly. No, he's a he's a Journeyman
Speaker 2: Electrician and the ib E w's a high voltage logo,
Speaker 2: Like what the fuck up again? And I think the
Speaker 2: reason why this guy was caught off on CNBC is
Speaker 2: because they were on Stonks TV, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: They weren't on MSNBC.
Speaker 2: He wasn't talking like Ben Collins or something like someone
Speaker 2: who's like knows, like it's very well versed in all this,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 5: But Ben Collins is a great example of why I
Speaker 5: think it is overrated to leave twittered indignation. Like he's
Speaker 5: a great example of why.
Speaker 4: No, he's there and if he left, like, no one
Speaker 4: would ever see a ship, right.
Speaker 2: He's always there, just dunk on people and exactly always
Speaker 2: like like help people who are not like terminally online
Speaker 2: like some of us understand like what is actually being
Speaker 2: spoken about?
Speaker 1: So anyway, again, this interview.
Speaker 2: Was basically on cn CNBC, so they're like Then he
Speaker 2: eventually gets to the money part, which is another really
Speaker 2: interesting moment in this interview. He said, the big question
Speaker 2: is like for people who love Stonks like Tesla and stuff,
Speaker 2: He's like, what the fuck's going on with like Tesla
Speaker 2: shares and like the way you're running Twitter because the
Speaker 2: businesses are interconnected, whether you like it or not. And
Speaker 2: He's like, and if you keep turning Twitter into like
Speaker 2: an ad repelling website equivalent of like Christall knocked, Like
Speaker 2: what are you going to how are you going to
Speaker 2: keep people's money moving? Like what do you say to
Speaker 2: these people who are actually worried about the ship that
Speaker 2: you post and its effect on the financials of everything?
Speaker 1: This answer is fucking even.
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna play the whole thing because it's this
Speaker 2: is a very like this man's brain.
Speaker 4: I I don't even know I'm salad servant.
Speaker 6: Yeah, god no, I don't want to at all, but
Speaker 6: I'm what I'm trying even came up though in the
Speaker 6: annual meeting. I mean, you know, do your tweets hurt
Speaker 6: the company? Are there Tesla owners just saying I don't
Speaker 6: agree with his political position because and I know it
Speaker 6: because he shares so much of it, or their advertisers
Speaker 6: on Twitter that Linda Yakarna will come and say you
Speaker 6: gotta stop, man, or you know, I can't get these
Speaker 6: ads because of some of the things you tweet.
Speaker 1: Pause paws buzz. He's just looking off into the middle distance, booting.
Speaker 1: Does you find the right.
Speaker 2: Mean, you know, I'm reminded of uh uh.
Speaker 3: Bone Valley seeing the Princess Bride, great movie where he
Speaker 3: confronts the person who killed his father. Okay, he says,
Speaker 3: offer me money.
Speaker 4: Literally, it's not what he says.
Speaker 1: I don't care. See, you just don't care. Offer me money.
Speaker 6: You want to share what you have to say.
Speaker 3: I'll say what I want to say, and if if
Speaker 3: if the consequence of that is losing money.
Speaker 1: So be it.
Speaker 5: Has he ever seen that fucking movie? That's literally not
Speaker 5: he says, my name is in Eniggo Montor. I mean
Speaker 5: like literally everybody knows that.
Speaker 2: Offer me money off. It's like, I don't understand. He's
Speaker 2: basically replying in like gift form. Gift form, Yeah, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. It's like, what do you say
Speaker 2: about that princess Brian dot gif? It took him a
Speaker 2: while to find it. He was my god, the he
Speaker 2: racked his brain for the dumbest response. I mean, truly
Speaker 2: does he have like an.
Speaker 1: Early kind of trial version of neuralink going like looked
Speaker 1: up to Twitter and like that's just how badly it works,
Speaker 1: And he.
Speaker 2: Was just going through seen seconds to respond. That was
Speaker 2: a thirteen second fucking pause he took to say, I'm
Speaker 2: reminded of a scene from Princess Bride.
Speaker 1: What offer me money? Offer me power? I mean that
Speaker 1: couldn't have been the answer that thes were looking for.
Speaker 5: How fucking Austin would have been because I'm reminded of
Speaker 5: a scene from Princess Bride where in rodents of unusual side.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's I think it's also just too these people,
Speaker 2: especially billionaires, right, they're never in environments where people press
Speaker 2: them or ask follow up questions, so when they are,
Speaker 2: it's like a disorienting experience for them. The beginning of
Speaker 2: the first clip where I talked to, where he's talking
Speaker 2: about billing running, bailing, cat running, syops, when he's like
Speaker 2: when the the journalists asking very basic questions of his
Speaker 2: like like twitter retweets, he's also like, almost, I'll just
Speaker 2: play this other section because it truly shows like he
Speaker 2: is not used to being held to account for fucking anything.
Speaker 4: I can't get enough of this.
Speaker 1: Keep going there, and Alan Texas, you say something like
Speaker 1: it might be.
Speaker 6: A bad psyop. I'm not quite sure what she meant.
Speaker 1: But.
Speaker 3: Oh, in that particular case, uh, there was a somehow
Speaker 3: that that's not not not that the that people were killed,
Speaker 3: but the it was I think incorrectly.
Speaker 1: Like super killed.
Speaker 2: He he his his body language like you know, I'm
Speaker 2: not I'm no body language expert, although I do testify
Speaker 2: at trials as an expert.
Speaker 4: Very scientifically proved and to be like legit.
Speaker 2: But it's just interesting how he he like goes he's
Speaker 2: starting like this, and then he just really does get
Speaker 2: small and he's like, oh, right, this.
Speaker 1: Thing I did a side, Well it's what I didn't.
Speaker 1: He like tilts his head to the side like a
Speaker 1: dog that like you just spoke a full sentence to
Speaker 1: and the dog doesn't like understand what you're saying. And
Speaker 1: then another pause, another pause, and then oh.
Speaker 5: That So when you were first talking about this psych
Speaker 5: was coming on the show, I didn't know what we
Speaker 5: were gonna be talking about, and I just.
Speaker 4: Quickly googled Elon musk C NBC. All of the.
Speaker 5: Top headlines I see are Elon must tells the NBC
Speaker 5: he's now up to six hours of sleep a night.
Speaker 5: That was the takeaway from this contract.
Speaker 1: What because the mains true media worships and the foreheads
Speaker 1: just want them to be Tony Stark real real Tony Stark.
Speaker 1: That's what they are there too, you know, play a
Speaker 1: role and a role that the mainstream media isn't interested
Speaker 1: in is like massive billionaire thought leader who is also
Speaker 1: a Nazi. Like they erased that part of Henry Ford's
Speaker 1: story for many years, right, you know.
Speaker 2: And also like that's not a good ad for his
Speaker 2: mental elasticity for someone who supposedly is such a brilliant
Speaker 2: I'm like, this guy took thirteen seconds to say this
Speaker 2: reminds me of the Princess Bride.
Speaker 1: I don't know, and.
Speaker 4: Then and then didn't get the right line that everybody knows.
Speaker 1: Offer me the thing I don't care.
Speaker 4: I want in Nego Montoya.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there was this character a Negro Toyota and.
Speaker 1: What he said? What anyway, So Emerald boy is back
Speaker 1: at it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, shout out to everybody who was focused on
Speaker 2: the six hours of sleep park.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, he needs more apparently, because he's there's
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of years spinning without any
Speaker 1: anything coming out. All right, let's take a quick break
Speaker 1: and we'll be right back. And we're back. And it
Speaker 1: was recently announced that the percentage of American workers testing
Speaker 1: positive for marijuana is at the highest level ever recorded. Yeah,
Speaker 1: which let them know. But like, so are all those
Speaker 1: people being fired for that? Like that's what like this
Speaker 1: The story implied that it was just like informational drug testing,
Speaker 1: but right, why the fuck are people still drug testing
Speaker 1: their employees? Yeah, it's kind of my question.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, isn't.
Speaker 5: It like insurance or it's like some sort of like
Speaker 5: situation where like some where places have like an umbrella
Speaker 5: policy or have them working heavy equipment or something.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 5: My work My workplace has like a thing in our
Speaker 5: handbook that evokes like potential. You're not supposed to be,
Speaker 5: you know, imbibing on the job. It's not a question
Speaker 5: anybody has ever asked anybody ever workplace, So I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's in other countries there are like
Speaker 1: I could understand. It's like we you can't be intoxicated
Speaker 1: while operating heavy machinery, obviously, Like that's and that is
Speaker 1: how drug testing is used in other countries that use it.
Speaker 1: But the way that the US uses it where it's
Speaker 1: just like we just want to check out your lifestyle
Speaker 1: and what you're doing when you're not on work hours
Speaker 1: is really like it's not a long term thing and
Speaker 1: it's not practiced in other countries, so like that's the
Speaker 1: that's the thing I always assumed. Yeah, there was like
Speaker 1: some international corporation re for like with insurance or something
Speaker 1: like that, but the US is the only place that
Speaker 1: really has this. It was invented by the Reagans as
Speaker 1: part of like their war on drugs. Shit, like it's
Speaker 1: a it's a recent innovation that is not helpful, is
Speaker 1: not effective, and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of the latest tools of white supremacy.
Speaker 2: Yeahs finally you know, being done away with because yeah,
Speaker 2: like it's always like, oh, you smoke weed in this
Speaker 2: part of the neighborhood and you want to work at
Speaker 2: this grocery store, right, you know, it's like what the
Speaker 2: fuck is this? And yeah, all it does is like
Speaker 2: either dissuades people from wanting to apply for a job,
Speaker 2: which I'm sure is one factor of it, or you know,
Speaker 2: you can really kind of prolong the employing someone by
Speaker 2: being like, oh, I don't know about your drug tests
Speaker 2: and shit like that.
Speaker 1: I mean that it is on the decline, drug testing
Speaker 1: and it's definitely like way less popular than it was
Speaker 1: fairly recently, but it's still happening in thousands of workplaces.
Speaker 1: And the reason and it's on the decline has nothing
Speaker 1: to do with the fact that it's invasive and unnecessary
Speaker 1: and you know, arguably unconstitutional, but because of the labor
Speaker 1: shortage caused by the pandemic. And so yeah, it plays
Speaker 1: like Amazon dropped drug testing in twenty twenty one and
Speaker 1: like acknowledged that it is inherently racist, but we're like,
Speaker 1: and we're dropping it, but not because of the racism.
Speaker 1: We're dropping it because of changing state laws. Wait, oh,
Speaker 1: you know it's racist though.
Speaker 5: Yea, yeah, yeah, yeah, And then we always did and
Speaker 5: we always because by the way, you know, the War
Speaker 5: on drugs.
Speaker 4: Was not Reagan's, it was Nixon's.
Speaker 5: And John Erlickman gave the interview, you're saying that, like
Speaker 5: we did it to disrupt black communities, Like that's.
Speaker 4: Why we did it.
Speaker 5: We knew with drugs, we knew that pot wasn't bad.
Speaker 5: We were lying, that's why we did it. And Carter
Speaker 5: tried to pull it back, and then the Reagans went
Speaker 5: like double down with it, Like that's what. So it's
Speaker 5: always like you know, pull back, push, pull back, push.
Speaker 5: What's happened now with drugs, which is interesting. It's not
Speaker 5: just the legalization of pot. It's the opioids crisis, which
Speaker 5: is now like inspired this like wave of empathy for
Speaker 5: substance use disorder, which it now has a new name
Speaker 5: and now is meant to now it's a health crisis
Speaker 5: because the perceived victims are white people, right even though
Speaker 5: like like the fastest growing demographic of deaths right now
Speaker 5: is like black people, but it's perceived to be a
Speaker 5: white problem, which is why it like inspired all of
Speaker 5: these like actual legislative things and like money and.
Speaker 4: Resources and stuff.
Speaker 5: So it is really interesting to see like how it
Speaker 5: snaps back and forth and back and forth and back
Speaker 5: and forth. I would not be surprised with all this
Speaker 5: marijuana legalization and stuff, like I think it's great, But
Speaker 5: I wouldn't be surprised if in like four, eight, twelve
Speaker 5: years there was another huge snapback. I just wouldn't because
Speaker 5: that's just how I mean, like what's happening now with abortion,
Speaker 5: Like what's happened. I mean, it's just it's just in
Speaker 5: gay rights, Like it's just it seems to be like
Speaker 5: we're on these ebbs and flows, and every time you
Speaker 5: get an EBB. It's worse than the previous EBB when
Speaker 5: it comes to being progressive or regressive.
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, yeah, there's so when Reagan announced it, he
Speaker 1: instituted it with like the one point one million federal
Speaker 1: employees that he had control over, and then he did
Speaker 1: a publicity stunt. He was like so horny for drug
Speaker 1: testing workers. He was like, fuck it, I'll do a
Speaker 1: drug TESTO. And but like the reality of the drug
Speaker 1: test was that if anybody in his administration, or if
Speaker 1: he or Nancy had tested positive, it would have been
Speaker 1: totally kept totally secret and confidential, and instead of being fired,
Speaker 1: they'd simply be offered counseling, so with discretion. Yeah. Interesting,
Speaker 1: but yeah, by nineteen ninety five, more than three quarters
Speaker 1: of employers had adopted workplace drug testing. That's crazy, right,
Speaker 1: typically only done in Europe for safety concerns, and in Canada,
Speaker 1: workplace drug testing is considered a human rights violation, which
Speaker 1: makes sense because, like, for instance, a DC police department
Speaker 1: admitted it used urine samples collected for drug tests to
Speaker 1: screen female employees for pregnancy without their knowledge or consent.
Speaker 4: So sorry, I'm not going again.
Speaker 5: Not shocked, not surprised, just like bold over from the
Speaker 5: moment a little bit. Yeah, and then what did they
Speaker 5: do if they found out? Did they just not tell
Speaker 5: them and just not hire them? That was that was
Speaker 5: the thing.
Speaker 1: I think that's.
Speaker 2: Imagine or could you imagine? Then they like they're like, also, girl,
Speaker 2: you're pregnant. Sorry, we cannot offer you employment with this
Speaker 2: police department. Congratulations, are preggers my eggers?
Speaker 1: Okay, so figure it out. Congratulations girl, you're not getting
Speaker 1: the job, but congratulations on what you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Wink wink wink. Yeah. Anyways,
Speaker 1: because of human error, because of the ability to like
Speaker 1: buy things that can help hide. Like there's all all
Speaker 1: these products Golden Flask, you're a novelty kit. It says
Speaker 1: it's a fetish novel. You're a novelty kit, but of
Speaker 1: course it's actually just for people to buy. And if
Speaker 1: you're fetish's employment, you're into working for corporation that doesn't
Speaker 1: respect your human rights. I think that's so hot. Help
Speaker 1: you toil for me? Yeah, there's the Wizonator but yeah,
Speaker 1: so there's just all these products to Yeah, it makes sense.
Speaker 1: Who does it?
Speaker 2: It's it's non I remember like even in I remember
Speaker 2: high school, right, we graduated high school, one of my
Speaker 2: best friends applied for a job at Costco and he
Speaker 2: fucking almost fainted at the job interview because they made
Speaker 2: him pissed test wow and like, but the thing was
Speaker 2: he knew he failed, Like he was like, right every
Speaker 2: day he's like, but he's like I went in confident.
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, okay, give it to me, and
Speaker 2: he's like, but they hired me anyway, And I was like, oh, interesting, it's.
Speaker 5: Probably a polygraph where it was like if they flinched
Speaker 5: about taking it, they wouldn't hire.
Speaker 2: I actually need to, oh, get my mom from the
Speaker 2: airport right now?
Speaker 1: Okay, can you run away in a bottle of golden
Speaker 1: flat falls out of your.
Speaker 4: Do you have a condition where I can't? You're a
Speaker 4: note unless I'm at home?
Speaker 2: Yeah, home field advantage. You know it happens.
Speaker 1: We've all been there.
Speaker 2: But yeah, do away with the fucking drug tests please,
Speaker 2: Like it's yes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, come on, Well, Rebecca, such a pleasure having you
Speaker 1: on the daily Geist. Where can people find you? Follow you?
Speaker 5: Oh my god, this was ridiculously fun. Well, you can
Speaker 5: listen to crime writers on and anything else I do
Speaker 5: but you can follow me on social media, including Twitter,
Speaker 5: because I have not left in a huff at reb Levoi.
Speaker 4: That's where I am everywhere.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and is there a work of media you've been enjoyed?
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I'm sure you guys have talked about Jury
Speaker 5: Duty on the show with someone else, right, so Retrey background. Well,
Speaker 5: by the way, this weekend was the return of Selling
Speaker 5: Sunset on Netflix. Haven't watched, Yeah, but it's back actually
Speaker 5: coming out as we're taping this show. Yeah, but there's
Speaker 5: something coming out of Netflix that this week that people
Speaker 5: should check out that I've seen a preview of. It's
Speaker 5: called Victim Suspect on Netflix. And we're just since we're
Speaker 5: talking about criminal justice stuff, and if you want to
Speaker 5: get real pissed off, it's about It's great. It's there's
Speaker 5: a reporter Ray de Leone who works at the Center
Speaker 5: for Investigative Reporting, and she did this long investigation about
Speaker 5: women who get arrested after they report being raped and
Speaker 5: the cops accuse them of falsely reporting being raped and
Speaker 5: then they get arrested.
Speaker 4: It's super good.
Speaker 5: It's it'll make you really angry, but it's it's really
Speaker 5: really good and I recommend it. Was as it's sun
Speaker 5: Dance and now it's coming out of Netflix. It's really good.
Speaker 5: But also watch Selling Sunset.
Speaker 2: Because I mean, what's kind of what's going on with Rishelle?
Speaker 4: You know high art, I mean Krishelle.
Speaker 1: I mean, I see what's happening here in real life?
Speaker 4: I know, I miss Maya. I miss Maya a lot.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Maya was number one.
Speaker 4: In my Power rankings, number one.
Speaker 1: But you know yeah, also a true crime podcast. If
Speaker 1: you look at the deals that they're getting away with, yep,
Speaker 1: I mean some of these places are a steal. All right.
Speaker 5: We'll have to see what happens with the Christine Less
Speaker 5: Selling Sunset.
Speaker 4: We'll see if it's so good. I think it'll be
Speaker 4: fine exactly.
Speaker 1: Miles, Where can people find you? What is the work
Speaker 1: media you've been enjoying?
Speaker 2: Oh, you can find me on Twitter, Instagram, other app
Speaker 2: based websites At Miles of Gray. You can find Jack
Speaker 2: and on our basketball podcast, Miles and Jack John Matt
Speaker 2: Bosty's where we talk about you know, the NBA the
Speaker 2: postseason right now, my Lakers were I don't know what
Speaker 2: happened in Game three, so it could really be or
Speaker 2: it could be, but hey, we'll have to find out
Speaker 2: next episode. And you can also find me talking about
Speaker 2: ninety day Fiance, my favorite reality trash fire show on
Speaker 2: my other podcast.
Speaker 1: For twenty day Fiance. So you know what time it is.
Speaker 1: Let's see, do I like a tweet? Nope, I don't.
Speaker 1: I haven't.
Speaker 2: I haven't actually gone on Twitter, although I do see
Speaker 2: see Casey just hand is just trending, so I can
Speaker 2: only Oh, there's a Politico deep dive on her, can't
Speaker 2: we Yeah?
Speaker 1: Oh wait here, let me.
Speaker 5: Let me see the sanctimonious you mean, come on, you
Speaker 5: don't have to have the name right exactly.
Speaker 2: Oh, here's what Okay, Now, apparently there's like this whole
Speaker 2: Politico deep dives is talking about how she's the one
Speaker 2: controlling everything.
Speaker 4: Okay, even the pudding.
Speaker 1: Yeah, come on, your big slot pig go putting was
Speaker 1: a sigh op to get us to identify with them.
Speaker 1: They're like everybody eats pudding with their fingers right right
Speaker 1: like and then he blew it by being like, that's
Speaker 1: not true, sugar man. Come on, I don't need that.
Speaker 1: I don't need pudding, all right? Uh tweet, I've been
Speaker 1: enjoying Adam serious at row tweeting, tweeted me, I'm having
Speaker 1: hearing issues. Doctor, can you describe the symptoms?
Speaker 3: Me?
Speaker 1: It's a TV show about a family from Springfield. I'm
Speaker 1: really good. And then Zach Dunn tweeted a picture of
Speaker 1: a I guess it's the HBO Max ad maybe and
Speaker 1: it says join your favorite plumbers on an epic quest.
Speaker 1: Renter owned the Super Mario Brothers movie at Home with Exfinity,
Speaker 1: so it's an Exfinity at And he said, Hey, Bud,
Speaker 1: I'm only gonna say this once, so listen close. You
Speaker 1: have no fucking idea who my favorite plumbers are. Assume
Speaker 1: you know anything. You don't know me, all right. You
Speaker 1: can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore Obrian. You
Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter at Daily Zeitgeist. We're at
Speaker 1: the Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram. We have a Facebook fanpage
Speaker 1: and a website, Daily zeitgeist dot com, where we post
Speaker 1: our episodes and our footnote where we link off to
Speaker 1: the information that we talked about in today's episode, as
Speaker 1: well as a song that we think you might enjoy. Miles,
Speaker 1: what's the song that you think people might enjoy?
Speaker 2: Here's a song you might enjoy. Uh, this is an
Speaker 2: artist from Belfax named Caliber and the track is called
Speaker 2: Feeling Normal and it kind of reminds me of like
Speaker 2: Tom Yorky dance music like idio Tech by Radiohead. Like
Speaker 2: if you like that, you're I think you'll probably like
Speaker 2: this because it's got, like, you know, kind of interesting
Speaker 2: industrially deep with a haunting, spooky falsetto over it. So
Speaker 2: check out Feeling Normal by Caliber. Oh and also if
Speaker 2: you really like idio Tech, I just heard a college
Speaker 2: acapella version of it by the Virginia still Whoetts from
Speaker 2: the University of Virginia, an all female identifying acappella group.
Speaker 1: That's another one.
Speaker 2: If you want to hear the spooky version idio Tech,
Speaker 2: try that one off your size.
Speaker 1: Spooky radio Head covers really like, it's just a matter
Speaker 1: of time until you hear that cover, and it'll be
Speaker 1: it'll be in the trailer for Super Mario Brothers too,
Speaker 1: right right, like.
Speaker 4: The Social Network version about you and Musk.
Speaker 2: Will have that Yeah, God, yeah, truly idiotech all right.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: The Daily's Eye Guys is a production of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visits the iHeartRadio abb Apple
Speaker 1: podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. That's
Speaker 1: gonna do it for us this morning, back this afternoon
Speaker 1: to tell you what is trending, and we'll talk to
Speaker 1: y'all then. Bye bye bye