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Speaker 1: Twenty seventeen marks the anniversary of the Summer of Sam.

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Speaker 1: To mark the occasion, Pocketbooks is proud to release a

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Speaker 1: special anniversary edition E book of Son of Sam by

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Speaker 1: Lawrence D. Klaussner. This is an incredible story of how

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Speaker 1: a single man, David Berkowitz, dubbed Son of Sam, the

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Speaker 1: demon haunted forty four caliber killer, killed six, wounded several others,

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Speaker 1: and terrorized millions of New Yorkers over eight known attacks

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Speaker 1: from July nineteen seventy six through August nineteen seventy seven.

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Speaker 1: It's also the story of the greatest man hunt in

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Speaker 1: the history of the New York Police Department, the intimate

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Speaker 1: narrative of the men assigned to tracking down a lone killer.

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Speaker 1: The police task Force investigated more than three thousand suspects,

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Speaker 1: some of them cops, before finally making an arrest. In

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Speaker 1: the meantime, politicians watched a city writhe and panic. Newspapers

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Speaker 1: played upon the fears of their readers, and the criminal

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Speaker 1: justice system showed itself incapable of coping with the man

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Speaker 1: who committed such horrendous crimes. Download Summer of Sam by

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Speaker 1: Lawrence D. Clausner today. Royalties earned from The cell of

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Speaker 1: this book will be shared between the victims where their

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Speaker 1: families and the AFR Climb stories with Nancy Grace on

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Speaker 1: Serious x M Triumph Channel one thirty two, two thousand five.

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Speaker 1: On the small Island of a Rubot, Natalie Holloway was

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Speaker 1: with friends at a local bar where she was last

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Speaker 1: seen getting a ride with Uron Vandersloughte. Natalie's disappearance remains

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Speaker 1: a mystery. Her dad says that he in a private

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Speaker 1: eye found human remains in a rubot. We took those

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Speaker 1: remains and had those remains test it and then just

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Speaker 1: returned last week. That's her human remains. Will there be

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Speaker 1: able to be some kind of test ave that will

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Speaker 1: be answer once in Paul whether this is Natalie. We're

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Speaker 1: in the process of doing a d n A task.

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Speaker 1: Dave Holloway says that a friend of a man who

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Speaker 1: was once suspected in her disappearance tipped them off. I

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Speaker 1: know that there's a possibility this could be someone else,

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Speaker 1: and I'm just trying to wait and see An American

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Speaker 1: beauty scrubbed in Sunshine. The All American Girl, an honor student,

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Speaker 1: cheerleader in the dance corps at school, a loving daughter,

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Speaker 1: her world in front of her. This Alabama beauty queen

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Speaker 1: goes missing on her senior trip. She's never seen again.

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Speaker 1: I have spoken to her mom and dad and stepdad

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Speaker 1: so many times as they recount their desperate flight to

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Speaker 1: Aruba and then they land. They have no idea where

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Speaker 1: to start or where what to do, but they try,

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Speaker 1: they try and try without success. The prime suspect then

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Speaker 1: goes on to murder yet another girl, Stephanie Tassiana Flores,

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Speaker 1: but still no sign of Natalie Holloway. I Meancy, Grace,

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Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: In the last hour, her father, Natalie Holloway's father, reveals

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Speaker 1: that he and an investigator have made a stunning, disturbing,

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Speaker 1: shocking discovery behind a home human remains. Dave Holloway and

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Speaker 1: investigator T. J. Ward have announced that, following a renewed

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Speaker 1: nearly two year investigation, the remains that they have discovered

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Speaker 1: will be DNA tested to determine if they are those

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Speaker 1: of Natalie Holloway. With Me investigative reporter and award winning

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter. I might add Art Harris is with me

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Speaker 1: along with death scene investigator and forensics professor at Jacksonville

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Speaker 1: State University, Joseph Scott Morgan, Guys, thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with me. You know, Art Harris, it seems to me

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Speaker 1: like it was yesterday that you and I were on

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Speaker 1: You were in a Ruba, and I was in a

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Speaker 1: studio at CNN talking nearly every night about finding Natalie Holloway.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I remember, believe it or not, it was

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Speaker 1: my first work of fiction, as I recall that came out,

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Speaker 1: or maybe it was my very first book Objection, and

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Speaker 1: I was so afraid to leave seen in studios. We

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Speaker 1: nearly canceled the book release that night. Third I think

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Speaker 1: it was thirty minutes before it was it was time

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Speaker 1: to to start. The book released, this big deal in

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Speaker 1: my world. Anyway, I was, I think, on the phone

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Speaker 1: with you in a Ruba saying, I think we need

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Speaker 1: to call this thing off. She could be found in

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Speaker 1: any minute. I don't want to be, you know, trying

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Speaker 1: to talk about a book when Natalie is going to

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Speaker 1: be found. It was a breakthrough every five minutes, it seemed, allegedly,

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Speaker 1: and then they evaporated. There were so many dead in

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Speaker 1: leaves and Nancy, so many people lying about what happened

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Speaker 1: that night and still no conclusion. And that's my fear.

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Speaker 1: Right now, let's start best akwards for once. I never

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Speaker 1: would do this normally, but let's start with the breaking news.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about the fact that and this is not

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Speaker 1: just some you know, reporter announcing that they think they

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Speaker 1: found something. This is her father. What what do we

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Speaker 1: know art? What is his belief? People have come out

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Speaker 1: of the woodwork to approach them over the years, including

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Speaker 1: remember Jordan Vanderslute you're in apparently came forward with with

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Speaker 1: news that he would tell where the remains were to

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Speaker 1: the mother, and of course that turned out to be

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Speaker 1: a ruse two and demand apparently he paid. Now, why

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Speaker 1: are you starting with that? When I said the breaking news?

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Speaker 1: You know what myself? Do I have to Q and

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Speaker 1: A with myself. Don't lead me up to the breaking

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Speaker 1: news is have we found the body? That That's what's

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Speaker 1: happening right now. Tips a tipster tells the father and

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Speaker 1: t J. Someone t J found that he knows that

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Speaker 1: there are remains he believes in in in a house

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Speaker 1: or near a house in Aruba. That's all they have announced.

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Speaker 1: And they go there and they dig and they find

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Speaker 1: what they say now are confirmed human remains. Don't know

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Speaker 1: if it's Natalie. There hopes her up. They've been up

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Speaker 1: before and dashed. They have now taken the bones and whatever.

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Speaker 1: They have to be analyzed by a quote prestigious DNA lab.

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Speaker 1: We won't know for several weeks as uh the father uh,

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Speaker 1: And so everyone is on pins and needles. Again. Hopes

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Speaker 1: are high that maybe they can get closure if this

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Speaker 1: is confirmed to be Natalie's remains are Do you remember

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Speaker 1: the video of Natalie Hallway? I showed it a million

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Speaker 1: times of her in her I want to say, baton.

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Speaker 1: I think she was her out on football field with

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Speaker 1: a group of other girls and there a cheerleading or

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Speaker 1: dance outfits. And I played it so many times it

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Speaker 1: actually it hurt me to even look at it. And

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Speaker 1: then there was another clip I played a lot of

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Speaker 1: her in the backseat of a car. I think her

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Speaker 1: mom was driving, and I'm pretty sure she was wishing

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Speaker 1: her mom a happy birthday and just talking and art.

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Speaker 1: You know, both of you guys have children. I got

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Speaker 1: to where I couldn't stand to even look at it

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Speaker 1: to think what she went through and that desperate search

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Speaker 1: her parents landing and essentially uh An island belonging to

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Speaker 1: the novel and Antilles and having no idea what to

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Speaker 1: do to find their girl. So now, just like you said,

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Speaker 1: there's been so many tips that fell through. I I've

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Speaker 1: been with you are remember when there was the tar pit,

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Speaker 1: and there was the beach, and then there was there

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Speaker 1: were all the searches in the ocean, and then they

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Speaker 1: thought a human skull had been found at the bottom

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Speaker 1: of the ocean near Aruba. That's just a few of

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Speaker 1: the many, many false tips. But the fact that the

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Speaker 1: father himself is saying that this could be Natalie, to me,

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Speaker 1: that carries a lot of weight. This is not just

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Speaker 1: some coup that's snorkeling, you know, on a vacation day

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Speaker 1: on the tip of a ruby, and thanks he finds

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Speaker 1: Natalie Holloway. This is the father. This is someone who

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Speaker 1: has not given up on his daughter. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: whole family has has been obsessed with finding a killer,

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Speaker 1: which has is pretty much presumed to be who we know.

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Speaker 1: But no charge has ever brought for this, this this murder. UH,

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Speaker 1: and they will not give up. He has been uh

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Speaker 1: dedicated to finding out what happened to his daughter. Twelve

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Speaker 1: years Imagine that Nancy, and here you have him still

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Speaker 1: on the hunt with a respected private investigator and they

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Speaker 1: have received mixed greetings. In a Rube, as you know,

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Speaker 1: is a place rife with corruption and double dealings. A father,

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Speaker 1: if you were in vander Slute as a judge, there

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Speaker 1: have been so many nections and you know, reasons to

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Speaker 1: cover this up from their point of view that you know,

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Speaker 1: he's up against an almost impossible task, So they're not

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Speaker 1: revealing the source who led them to this tip. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people are afraid what would happen to them

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Speaker 1: should they be identified as the tipster who keeps a

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Speaker 1: Aruba in the public eye with a black eye. This

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Speaker 1: is a place that I have no you said, presumed

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Speaker 1: to be the killer you're in Vanderslute. His father, Paula's

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Speaker 1: Vanderslute was a judge in a Ruba, and when we

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Speaker 1: tried to ask him questions, all you saw were elbows

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Speaker 1: and tail hole because he just took off running. The

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Speaker 1: video is a Paulice Vandersloute judge Paul's Vanderslute running away

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Speaker 1: from the camera rather than answering any questions about Natalie Holloway.

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Speaker 1: Long story short, can't be too hard on Paulice Vanderslute,

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Speaker 1: although I think he was part of a cover up

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Speaker 1: in this whole thing to protect his son because he's dead.

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Speaker 1: His son gave him a heart attack on a tennis court. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so he's dead. Will never learn anything from him. I

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Speaker 1: want to go through all the many, many tips that

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Speaker 1: have been proven false. This one is different because it's

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Speaker 1: Natalie Holloway's own father coming forward claiming that, according to

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Speaker 1: a friend very close to Yourn, vander Slut, the judge's

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Speaker 1: son there on the island of Aruba, who was last

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Speaker 1: seen with Natalie Holloway, according to that friend, Yourn vander

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Speaker 1: Slut gave her g h B Georgia Homeboy Gamma Hi

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Speaker 1: droxy beauty rate, the date rate drug that she threw up,

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Speaker 1: choked and died. Do I believe that's what happened? No,

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Speaker 1: not at all. Why because in one statement you're in

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Speaker 1: vander Sloop described I think it was the flowered underwear

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Speaker 1: Natalie Holloway had on when he left her at the

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Speaker 1: beach when she told him she wanted sex and he didn't. Right,

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Speaker 1: tell a high school boy you want to have sex

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Speaker 1: and he says no, and the girl says yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's not happening, so that whole stories false. But this

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Speaker 1: is a friend of yourn vander Sluts that has led

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Speaker 1: the dad to the body or to the remains. Joseph

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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan is with me, death scene investigator and forensics

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Speaker 1: professor at Jacksonville State University. If if this is these

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Speaker 1: are human remains, how can you tell that and what

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Speaker 1: do we do now? Joe Scott, It's a great question, Nancy. Uh.

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Speaker 1: One of my major problems with this whole thing. Uh

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Speaker 1: is a Ruba in and of itself, they're claiming that

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Speaker 1: they've come across human remains down there. Uh, it would

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Speaker 1: be an insult to the Keystone Cops to refer to

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Speaker 1: the constabulary in a Ruba as the Keystone Cops. It's

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Speaker 1: a train wreck down there. I don't understand how in

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Speaker 1: the world the scene was processed. I don't I don't

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Speaker 1: know how to verify that they've actually collected these remains.

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Speaker 1: I'd like to know what esteemed forensic anthropologists in that

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Speaker 1: huge place of a Ruba has declared that these are

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Speaker 1: in fact human remains. And here's another big question. They

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Speaker 1: claim it is being claimed that these remains are being

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Speaker 1: examined by a renowned DNA scientists. Okay, well that's all

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Speaker 1: fine and good. Let me ask you this question. How

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Speaker 1: did you get the human remains out of a Ruba

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Speaker 1: and get them to this person to have them examined.

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Speaker 1: When did all of this take place, Who processed the scene,

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Speaker 1: who touched these remains. They're talking about DNA. One of

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Speaker 1: things we have to keep in mind, Nancy Is said,

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Speaker 1: DNA is very very fragile, and you're already talking about

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Speaker 1: a very hostile environment in which a Ruba is not

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Speaker 1: like any of the other Caribbean islands. It's almost desert like.

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Speaker 1: It's it's got cactus growing there. You're not gonna see

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Speaker 1: palm trees and all this stuff. It's completely different. People

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Speaker 1: like to go there because they know the sun is

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Speaker 1: always gonna be shining. It doesn't rain very much there,

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Speaker 1: so imagine it remains rotting out of the desert in

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Speaker 1: the Southwest in America. It's very hostile. So who's touched

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Speaker 1: these remains. I've got a lot of questions about this,

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Speaker 1: how this whole thing was processed, Who's going to be

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Speaker 1: handling these these remains? And now I think the biggest

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Speaker 1: part for me is that we have a phrase in

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Speaker 1: forensic science that's talked that talks about insight to investigation

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Speaker 1: or observation. That means, if you have these remains, in

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Speaker 1: order to get the full picture of what has happened

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Speaker 1: to this young lady, you have to observe the remains

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Speaker 1: in their original position. Now, how are you gonna do that? Now?

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Speaker 1: Who processed this scene? And and also how are you

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Speaker 1: going to determine cause of death? If there are some

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Speaker 1: type of trauma to this body or what remains of

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Speaker 1: this alleged body, how are you going to vet that? Uh?

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Speaker 1: I'm very curious as to how this thing is coming down.

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Speaker 1: I don't necessarily like the connection that's going on with

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Speaker 1: the media here relative to wait, well, wait, hold on,

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Speaker 1: hold on, hold on, hold on. What do you mean?

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Speaker 1: Are are you familiar with what Joseph Scott Morgan is

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Speaker 1: saying about a media connection? Well, I know that apparently

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Speaker 1: a crew from Oxygen followed t J and the father

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Speaker 1: on their hunt for these clues. Uh, and we're there,

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Speaker 1: so you know you could go back to Haraldo and

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Speaker 1: the uh, the al Capone tomb when it was revealed, Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know what was behind their big build up and

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Speaker 1: then nothing. So, uh, you know, Joe has a good point. Well,

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Speaker 1: hold on, I find it very very difficult to believe,

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Speaker 1: very difficult to believe that Nally's father would do a stunt.

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Speaker 1: I don't think, you know, I don't think it's it's

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Speaker 1: deliberate in any way. I think he's full of hope

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Speaker 1: and and goodwill and the prayers for for a conclusion here.

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Speaker 1: But you know, if in fact, putting aside Joe's skepticism,

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Speaker 1: which I agree with, there's so many questions. Uh, but

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Speaker 1: you know as to the bona fide of how this

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Speaker 1: is being examined. But you know, if if this outfit

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Speaker 1: was helping them to proceed, and there you know, TV

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Speaker 1: camera is probably better than a bodyguard. People are not

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Speaker 1: going to mess with you if they think the world

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Speaker 1: is watching. You know, that's the best insurance for them.

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Speaker 1: So so they were there under that guy's and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, whether they're holding on to the results, we

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Speaker 1: don't know. But that's a good question. Just a moment guys,

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Speaker 1: before we before we throw the baby out with the

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Speaker 1: bathwater on this. But just because a media crew is

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Speaker 1: helping or funding it, that doesn't mean it ain't so

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Speaker 1: number one, um number two. Very often media shine a

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Speaker 1: light on something that otherwise would be unknown. For instance,

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Speaker 1: who is this guy, who is this friend of yourn

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Speaker 1: vander Sluts? How were they found? You know, I don't

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Speaker 1: know that, but I guarantee you in many times in

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Speaker 1: the past, if it weren't for media intervention, in any case,

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Speaker 1: it would go unnoticed, or media intervention on information, it

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Speaker 1: would go unnoticed and nobody would ever know about it.

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Speaker 1: So you know, I'm glad. I'm glad because it's keeping

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Speaker 1: the case alive. Come hell or high walk, that's true

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Speaker 1: I have, but come hell or high water, it's keeping

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Speaker 1: the case alive. I just hope there's not a heartbreak

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Speaker 1: at the end of this road for Natalie's family. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to it, Natalie Holloway's father said about his

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Speaker 1: search for his daughter on NBC's Todate Listen. What's your

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Speaker 1: level of confidence to you know throughout all this process.

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Speaker 1: You know, over the last twelve years, Matt, We've had

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Speaker 1: a number of disappointments, and I put up a wall

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Speaker 1: trying to find something that's not gonna disappointing. And when

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Speaker 1: we determined that these remains were human, I was shocked,

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Speaker 1: and uh, I know that there's a possibility this could

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Speaker 1: be someone else, and I'm just uh trying to wait

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Speaker 1: and see. What would it mean to you to have

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Speaker 1: that answer? It would be you know, finally the end,

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Speaker 1: we're going to say in a second that you guys

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Speaker 1: are taking part in a new show on Oxygen. And

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Speaker 1: the reason I bring this up is I think there

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Speaker 1: may be some people who are going to hear what

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Speaker 1: you're talking about now and say, wait a second. They

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Speaker 1: have a new show premiering, and now they have these

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Speaker 1: remains and we're not sure and there's just some sort

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Speaker 1: of promotion for this no show new show, and they're

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Speaker 1: going to feel that this may be a little unsettling,

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Speaker 1: maybe unsavory. How would you respond to that? Uh? We

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Speaker 1: T J and I started into this eighteen months ago

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Speaker 1: and we decided that at that point in time, whether

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Speaker 1: we have cameras or no cameras, Oxygen came on with

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Speaker 1: us and decided that and we decided that you guys

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Speaker 1: just watch us. We want to document this and in

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Speaker 1: this series you'll see in several incidentss where if the

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Speaker 1: camera was not on us and then we would never

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Speaker 1: be where we're at now. There you hear Natalie Holloway's

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Speaker 1: father still searching all these years for answers. That was

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Speaker 1: him on NBC's Today Show. The reality is, we know

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Speaker 1: you're in vander Salute is the killer the judges son

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Speaker 1: from Ruba. Just imagine sending your child on a senior trip, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I mean, for Pete's say, we're having a lock in

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Speaker 1: at the church this weekend. And I can't say that

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Speaker 1: I brain washed them, but the children are not going

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Speaker 1: so I mean, really, I think of them running up

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Speaker 1: and down the steps. What could happen? Now? You send

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Speaker 1: your kid away on what a four or five day

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Speaker 1: trip on a boat, You think nothing's gonna go wrong? There,

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Speaker 1: tons of chaperones, and you never see her alive again.

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Speaker 1: It's almost unfathomable for me to even think that, But

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Speaker 1: that is what happened to Natalie Holloway's parents. Listen to

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Speaker 1: Natalie's mom, Beth, also on the Today Show NBC. Listen,

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Speaker 1: it's been a roller coaster in the sense, hasn't at Beth?

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Speaker 1: And that you know you'd get leads and and I'm

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Speaker 1: sure your hope sword that we're going to find out.

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Speaker 1: Have you given up hope that you will find Natalie ever,

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Speaker 1: or do you or do you think I've given up

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Speaker 1: hope on finding out what happened to her? Two different things. Well,

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Speaker 1: I actually I do think it's it's very possible that

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Speaker 1: we could find more information, and of course it's it's

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Speaker 1: up to Iran, who obviously has the information, and he's

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Speaker 1: not talking right now. But I do think that it's

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Speaker 1: still possible that we could find where her remains are.

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Speaker 1: Of course I no longer believe that Natalie is alive,

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Speaker 1: so but I do feel it is possible. I remember

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Speaker 1: at the time that she went missing, and it became

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Speaker 1: evident to me that nobody was going to do a

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Speaker 1: thing about apprehending yourn Vander Salute, that he was protected

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Speaker 1: by his father and others in Aruba, and that they

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Speaker 1: didn't give a flying fig about an American girl. They

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Speaker 1: didn't and they did nothing to help, nothing to help

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Speaker 1: her parents. I said, I remember at art this is

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Speaker 1: before I knew you, Joseph Scott Morgan, that this guy

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Speaker 1: would act again, and he did. He murdered and is

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Speaker 1: convicted of murdering Stephanie Tassiana Flores. She met him at

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Speaker 1: a casino. She's a young girl too, about twenty one

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Speaker 1: years old, beautiful girl, long black hair. They strike up

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Speaker 1: a conversation. She's found dead. As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 1: evidence suggests that while he was sitting there in the

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Speaker 1: room with her dead body, he kicks back with a

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Speaker 1: doughnut and coffee a couple of feet from her dead body.

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Speaker 1: From what the evidence shows, she ran a search on

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Speaker 1: him while they were sitting there in the room together

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Speaker 1: and pulled up the Natalie Holloway case and said are

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Speaker 1: you this your? Is this you? And he goes berserk

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Speaker 1: and murders her. Murders her in a brutal death. That's

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Speaker 1: two dead girls on yourn Vanderslute, and still he has

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Speaker 1: not been brought to justice in the death of Natalie Holloway.

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Speaker 1: So question to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator and

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Speaker 1: forensics professor, how long will it take to match up

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Speaker 1: a d N A. I mean, there's field d NA

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Speaker 1: t S has been used by the US for decades

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Speaker 1: at wartime and that's immediate, immediate DNA result. What about that?

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking? Nanswered that the the father as well as

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Speaker 1: this investigator are gonna want to take their time uh

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Speaker 1: in having this uh this these samples uh analyzed. Uh.

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Speaker 1: One of the big problems that they're going to run

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Speaker 1: into is uh the viability of of the of the

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Speaker 1: DNA that they have this uh, this base level DNA.

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Speaker 1: Can't you get bone marrow? Well? You can. However, however,

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Speaker 1: considering the environment and what we refer to as taffonomy,

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Speaker 1: which means the distribution of the remains in their particular

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Speaker 1: area and what they are exposed to, that's going to

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Speaker 1: create a problem as well as who comes in contact

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Speaker 1: with with these remains. That's not going to change the DNA,

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott. I mean, I'm just a trial lawyer, but

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Speaker 1: people touching the remain it's not going to change the DNA. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it will. It can compromise, it will not compromise bone

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Speaker 1: marrow found inside of about Well, let's say that the

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Speaker 1: bone marrow is no longer viable. Well, don guys, let's

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Speaker 1: go to the lines. Let's go out to Jason in Canada. Hi, Jason,

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Speaker 1: how are you man? I'm good? How are you doing?

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Speaker 1: I'm great? I am great. Hey what part of Canada? From?

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Speaker 1: What part of Canada are you coming? Yeah? From what

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Speaker 1: part of Canada are you calling? Nomasa? Okay, now, So, Jason,

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Speaker 1: what do you think about this whole thing? I got

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Speaker 1: a quick question. Why wasn't Jordan's um charged from the

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Speaker 1: connection of Halowise disapparent? Oh, Jason and Canada. Let me

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Speaker 1: tell you something why he wasn't charged? Well? Number one,

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Speaker 1: his father, Paula's vander Salute was a judge, a longtime judge, uh,

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Speaker 1: and influential, longtime influential character in Aruba. Aruba isn't as

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Speaker 1: big as what it's probably about the size of maybe Ohio,

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Speaker 1: is that right art the whole island or not even

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Speaker 1: that big. Yeah, not not even that big. But you

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Speaker 1: know he was. He was totally influential. And you might

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Speaker 1: remember I didn't you were and spend a night or

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Speaker 1: two in the local jail, but was quickly let go.

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Speaker 1: The fall father's house was processed. Uh, and the little

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Speaker 1: house out back where you're in stayed and my sources

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Speaker 1: say where he took many young women. Uh. So so

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Speaker 1: this was a place that you know where a cover

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Speaker 1: up uh you know was grown in Petrie dishes. I

395
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Speaker 1: mean every there were so many us, so many connections

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Speaker 1: and uh. This was also jumping off point Nancy Ruble

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Speaker 1: for for big drug smugglers bringing things back to the States,

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Speaker 1: and my d e A sources UM say they were

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Speaker 1: you know, they are really limited to feds are limited

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Speaker 1: in what they can do. But they were biting their tongue. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, what do you mean the FEDS are limited

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Speaker 1: and what they could do. I have friends at uh

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Speaker 1: the children's school that are convinced the FEDS are listening

404
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 1: in on their their alexa. I'm like, okay, um, but

405
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Speaker 1: making note. I need to put that in my next book.

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Speaker 1: The Feds limited and what they could do? Why are

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Speaker 1: you even saying that aren't this is? This is well, no,

408
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 1: this was you know, they have to have permission to

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Speaker 1: come on this island. Didn't work with the police. They

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Speaker 1: did provide helicopter searches for the body in the ocean

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Speaker 1: area that vander slewtin some His pal said Nancy, Uh

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Speaker 1: that Natalie was was either dumped or drowned in and

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Speaker 1: never found anything. But to get down on the ground

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Speaker 1: and supervise these these searches. Uh. You know, they don't

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Speaker 1: want anybody looking under their shoulders in a rub but

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Speaker 1: because there's too much to hide, man, that's a good point.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you this about what Jason and Canada

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Speaker 1: is asking why do you believe other than the dad

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Speaker 1: covering up for him and the mom uh sticking her

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Speaker 1: head in the sand and her butt in the air

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Speaker 1: like an ostrich, why was he never prosecuted on Natalie's disappearance?

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Speaker 1: I mean, come on, Art, don't you remember when he

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Speaker 1: was set up to talk that time, uh in the

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Speaker 1: suv and he was talking and there were hidden microphones

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Speaker 1: in there, and he described the moment that Natalie died,

426
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 1: that she started shaking and went into convulsions and died.

427
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: I mean, how would he know that if he's not

428
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 1: the killer? Well, very can vincing Nancy, But has he

429
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: ever told the truth about anything? And so you've balanced

430
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 1: that that high drama which he later retracted. This was

431
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 1: a great ruse by excellent Dutch investigative reporter to get

432
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: him alone, win his confidence. But but he's an actor.

433
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 1: He's a bad actor, and we don't know the veracity

434
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: of that. I was think, did t j Award ever

435
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: do please stop it? Stop it. You're you're you're making

436
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 1: my ears bleed just hearing what you're saying. Because Joe

437
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, come on, every time somebody gave a confession.

438
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 1: If they could they go, oh yeah, you know what

439
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: I was lying. I was acting of course that they'd

440
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 1: be walking out of the jail house right now if

441
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 1: you could get out because you said I was lying,

442
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 1: Please stop it or I'm a little shocked to you.

443
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: We wait, help me out, Joe Scott, throw me a

444
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: life preserve. Well, you know, every uh they say that

445
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: prisons are filled filled with innocent people. So there you go.

446
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I mean every time this happens. Uh and

447
00:26:55,600 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 1: uh it sounds like uh vander slut himself is is

448
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: a professional uh con artist. Uh. And I don't know,

449
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 1: say he's got a lot of sociopathic tendencies here. He

450
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: can manipulate people. And I think that in this, in

451
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: this tiny little island, he was capable of doing that.

452
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: But now this international spotlight was thrown on him. And

453
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,679
Speaker 1: as you earlier mentioned, you know you talked about his

454
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: dad running off into the dark instead of facing the

455
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 1: cameras's you can quote me, I said, elbows. You know

456
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: you were much more elean eloquent in that than I.

457
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 1: But I'm just saying that, you know, in that context, Uh,

458
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: they're used to, you know, kind of this their little Kingdom,

459
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: their little domain there, and when this international light is

460
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: thrown upon them. Uh, you know, the litmus test changes

461
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,719
Speaker 1: a little bit. Jason, did you know that it was

462
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: five years to the day after Natalie's disappearance that you're

463
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 1: in Vander Slute killed murdered business students Stephanie Tassiana Flores

464
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 1: five years to the day. That's one time I wish

465
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: that I hadn't been right. And that was of course

466
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: I wasn't the only one that said it that he

467
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 1: would strike again because he was so young at the

468
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 1: time he murdered Natalie and lied so well you could

469
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 1: tell he was a psychopath. Then. I'm certainly no doctor,

470
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: but even I could tell that. Jason. Yeah, he's a

471
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: very scary guy. You know. Natalie's dad is saying a

472
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: friend and actually an informant who lived with a friend

473
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: of yourn Vander Salute, gave the tip which has led

474
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: to the remains. And I'm quoting Natalie's father. He the

475
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: informant had information that took us to a spot where

476
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: remains were found, and we took those remains and we

477
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: have are having those remains tested. We chased a lot

478
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: of leads and this one by far is the most

479
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: credible lead I have seen in twelve years. Now, can't

480
00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: you look at bones and tell if it's a man

481
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: or a woman? Isn't that true, Joe Scott? I mean,

482
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: forensic anthropology tells us that much. Yes, they do, uh,

483
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: you know, just kind of a brief, very very brief overview.

484
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: The male bones are gonna tend to be uh more

485
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 1: robust than female bones. For instance, we'll look at the pelvis,

486
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: We'll look at uh, you know, the fine nature of

487
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: the female structure as opposed to more the robust nature

488
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: of the male structure. So yeah, yeah, yeah, those things

489
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: can be determined just by visualizing the bones. To Aret Harris,

490
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: where do we go? Now, what do you think is

491
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: happening now? Because they're not even telling this this is

492
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: whether these are female bones? Well, you know, first, let's

493
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: go back to who was he with that night? Haven't

494
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: heard mention of the Kalpo brothers who claimed that he

495
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 1: and Natalie were making out in the backseat of the

496
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: car before they dropped her off. Now, uh, well, let's

497
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: look at some of these people who could be uh

498
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: closest to your in and could be finally coming forward

499
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 1: for some reason that that they didn't way back then. Um,

500
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 1: but but you know, you gotta wonder who are these folks?

501
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: And uh uh you know where where else? You know,

502
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: what other clues might they be leading to and what

503
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: are their motives? But here? Who are these you know?

504
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 1: Is there any credibility with these people? Uh? And um

505
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: it's like other people on the island who were close

506
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: to your end, you know, when anything lying whenever he

507
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: opens his mouth. You know, I hate to be negative,

508
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: but uh uh you know these were these were the

509
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 1: the Surnamese brothers, d Pat, Calpo and Satish. You remember, Um,

510
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: I remember them well and so uh I wish I

511
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: didn't know, But wouldn't wouldn't they be interesting to talk to?

512
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 1: Uh if they have new memories? And do you remember

513
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: the memories? You know the reason that he he said

514
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: he went nuts that night and killed this other girl.

515
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 1: It was the anniversary of Natalie Holloway's disappearance, and he

516
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: was very stressed. That was one of the excuses. He

517
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: was so stressed. He kick back and had a coffee

518
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: in a Danish with his legs crossed on the coffee

519
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: table about two feet by the proving defense lawyers. That's

520
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: briefing proceeds, don't we Nancy, So, I guess don't know

521
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: what I've told my children. I'm going to use the

522
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: S word on you. I'm using the S word on

523
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: you that we are not allowed to use in our home.

524
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: Shut up. Okay, there's the s H word, which is

525
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: shut up and the S word, which is stupid, both disallowed.

526
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: Listen to Natalie's dad as he reveals the latest in

527
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: the search for Natalie Holloway, Alabama beauty. This investigation has

528
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: yielded something significant. What is it? Team? Over a period

529
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: of eighteen months, t J and I've been working together

530
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: with an informant who has uh given us some information

531
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: through a friend of your bandor sluts and we followed

532
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: that for eighteen months. And I'll let t J finish

533
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: the rest. We're did in an eighteen months undercover investigation

534
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: and with an informant who were friends with a individual

535
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: that was with had personal knowledge with You're on vanish

536
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: lout and gathered information which took us to a spot

537
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: um where remains were found, and we took those remains

538
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: and had those remains tested and they just returned last week.

539
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: That's our human remains. When this informant talked to you

540
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 1: about the place where Natalie may have been buried. Did

541
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: you find the remains immediately? Did it? Was it trial

542
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: and error? Did you have to look for days? Weeks?

543
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: You said you had eighteen months here. We've been back

544
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: there several times, back and forth, and he's taken us

545
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: to different places. But they went there and went to

546
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: a place behind a house that we were had under investigation,

547
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: and went behind the house and dug some remains up,

548
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: and those remains were turned over to us, and we

549
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: had those remains tested and they had just come back

550
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: the human remains, but said, we know that the human

551
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 1: remains will there be able to be some kind of

552
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:52,719
Speaker 1: test ave that will be answer once and for all

553
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: whether this is Natalie. We're in the process of doing

554
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: a DNA test and that test will take several weeks

555
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: to and hopefully we'll know at that point in time

556
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: that is Natalie Holloway's dad revealing a blockbuster in the

557
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: search from Alabama teen Natalie Holloway, he goes missing on

558
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: your senior trip to Aruba. The trip was very heavily chaperoned.

559
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: All the students were out that night at a casino.

560
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: Natalie had one drink. She was not drunk nothing. She

561
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: had one drink. She was there with her girlfriends and

562
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: the next thing you know, after that one drink, she

563
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: was in the backseat of a car with Yourn Vander Slute,

564
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: the Auruban judge's son, with the Calpo brothers driving the car.

565
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 1: She was never seen alive again. Right now, we are

566
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: taking your calls in the renewed search for Natalie Holloway,

567
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 1: her own father. This is just not some freelance She's

568
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: string reporter out there saying they've got a big break.

569
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: This is her father, Natalie's father, saying that based on

570
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: a tip close to your Vander Salute, human remains have

571
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: been found and are being processed. Now out to the lines.

572
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: Brandy in Oklahoma. Hello, Brandy, thank you for calling in.

573
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,959
Speaker 1: What's your comment or question? Well, I'm I'm excited that

574
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: the family may have closure. Now, Um, this is just

575
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: a satur case. I've been following it since the beginning

576
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: and with the family and and I hope this is

577
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: this is what they've been waiting for. Brandy, I couldnot

578
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: agree with you more. Now you say closure, I agree

579
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 1: and disagree in the sense that I mean you can't

580
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: even really start grieving until you have put your loved

581
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 1: one at rest. I mean, Brandy, you're you're right. There

582
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 1: are all those reports that Natalie Holloway was kidnapped, that

583
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: she was sold into human trafficking. At the time, I

584
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: pooh pooed it. But now that I oh the statistics

585
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: on human trafficking in another part of the world especially,

586
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: I may have been wrong to pooh pooh it the

587
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: way that I did, But in light of the fact

588
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: that she was last seen with a convicted murderer, I

589
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: don't think human trafficking was what happened. I think he

590
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 1: killed her. That he raped her and killed her. That's

591
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: what I think happened. So, Brandy, what do you make um?

592
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: Natalie's father on the Today Show announcing that they have

593
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: found human remains. I just can't believe it. Uh. Like

594
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: I said, I pray that you know that it's her.

595
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, like you said, you know, the

596
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,720
Speaker 1: family does need closure to move on, and I'm praying

597
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: for them. It's funny, you know, Brandy Nuklahoma that to

598
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 1: use the word I use the words I was shocked.

599
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 1: Let me tell you something. The father, now his dad,

600
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: Dave Holloway. Those were his exact words, and I'm quoting

601
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 1: when we determine the remains were human. I was shocked.

602
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,399
Speaker 1: That's what he told Matt Lower and my old Court

603
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: TV friend Savannah Guthrie on the Today Show quote, I

604
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 1: know there's a possibility this could be someone else, and

605
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to wait and see. Brandy, I couldn't

606
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 1: help but notice a baby in the background when you

607
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 1: were speaking. Is that your baby? Oh? You lucky girl,

608
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: I asked the twins all the time. Can't you just

609
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: get back at Mommy's tell me and we start over

610
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 1: and do it all again. Oh my stars, I know

611
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: you're probably exhausted right now taking care of a baby,

612
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: but I'm telling you, these are the best years of

613
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: my life. And can you imagine pouring all your love

614
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: into that baby, all your hopes for them, all your

615
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: dreams for them, and then some a hole like you're

616
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 1: in Vander Salute enters the picture and everything goes dark.

617
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 1: Can you even imagine that? Horrible? I don't, I don't

618
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:07,240
Speaker 1: even want to imagine that. I mean, I just so sad,

619
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: you know, Brandy and Oklahoma. In all my spare time,

620
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 1: I actually stay up nights and try to finish it.

621
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 1: I do um photo albums of the twins and I

622
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 1: go through and I you know right what this was

623
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 1: and what that was, so they'll have it when they

624
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: grow up and they can look back on it when

625
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 1: they're much older. And when I think of looking at

626
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,959
Speaker 1: that shelf and what Natalie's parents go through, it ends

627
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: at age eighteen. That was it. Eighteen summers, eighteen Christmas

628
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: is that's it and it's over. And I know that

629
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 1: they probably tortured themselves, like why did I let her

630
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: go on the trip? That was wrong? What was I thinking?

631
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: Brandy Um, thank you for calling in. We're all on

632
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 1: pins and needles, and many prayers have gone up regarding

633
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 1: Natalie Holloway. I want to go back to art Harris,

634
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: what what's going to happen? Now? Where do you think

635
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,760
Speaker 1: this thing is going? I don't think this is a stunt.

636
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 1: I really don't because I feel that I know Natalie's

637
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,479
Speaker 1: parents after reporting on this and speaking to them over

638
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 1: over all this time trying to help find Natalie. I

639
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: don't think they would do a stunt. I really don't.

640
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: And you know the mom Nat Natalie's mom, Beth, A

641
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: lot of people called it a stunt, but I didn't

642
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: think it was a stunt when uh, I can't remember

643
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 1: who it was, but a camera crew made it possible

644
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 1: for her to get access to your vander Salute and

645
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 1: jail after he murdered Stephanie Tassiana Flores, and she confronted

646
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: him on camera about I think it was a hidden camera,

647
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 1: but about what happened to Natalie, hoping that at least

648
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: for some kind of closure, like Brandy just mentioned that

649
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 1: he would tell her at least where was Natalie. It

650
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:49,800
Speaker 1: didn't work, and I don't think that was a stunt.

651
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: I think that they, the camera crew, enabled it to happen,

652
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: got access, got tickets, got her there. You know, it

653
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 1: was with her during the process. I don't think this

654
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: is a stunt. I really don't. Aren't. No, that was

655
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,760
Speaker 1: a brilliant try and answer anything, anything to pry things loose,

656
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 1: and I you know, I would love to see her

657
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 1: where the father go and try to find the guys

658
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: he was with that night, to see if they might

659
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 1: have had a change of heart. For all we know,

660
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 1: they could be the secret sources. But there was a

661
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 1: discrepancy you might remember, and where supposedly Natalie was dropped off,

662
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 1: Remember the Cowpo brothers initially told police that was at

663
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 1: the Holiday Inn where they were staying. Well, a guard

664
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: at the how at the guard at the Holiday Inn

665
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: later who was in jail for a while talked to

666
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: the brothers and said that, oh, no, they dropped her

667
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: off ten blocks north near the Marriott and one report

668
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: uh said that that's perhaps where she was buried. So

669
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 1: I don't know what uh dumping ground this is supposed

670
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,439
Speaker 1: to be, but there are so many conflicting stories. Why

671
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,800
Speaker 1: not go back to the only witnesses or the only

672
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 1: friends that claim Vanderslute was a running buddy, uh and

673
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 1: and talk to them again. I think that would be something,

674
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: so just got Morgan. Uh. We They still aren't revealing

675
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,879
Speaker 1: if it's even a female bone. Do you remember that

676
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 1: earlier on this case bones were found and it turned

677
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,359
Speaker 1: out to be an animal bone? Do you remember that? Yes?

678
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 1: Yes I do, Nancy, I certainly do. So. How do

679
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: I know what this is? Well? That that's the rub,

680
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: as they say. The idea is that hopefully, hopefully they

681
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:33,879
Speaker 1: have gotten these remains into the hands of someone who

682
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,399
Speaker 1: knows what they're doing. That's going to be uh, well

683
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: respected forensic anthropologists, those individuals that observe the bones uh

684
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: and and make that that that determination, and then on

685
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 1: top of that, get these bones into the hands of

686
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 1: a reputable DNA scientists that can extract the DNA appropriately.

687
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: If I could just go back a second talking about

688
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: uh kind of kind of blending in with what Art

689
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 1: was talking about. From an investigative standpoint, this is if

690
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 1: this does in fact turn out to be Natalie's remains

691
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 1: Nancy and they are at this location, this is a

692
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: huge piece of information or or or evidence that can

693
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: be used as leverage from an investigative standpoint, because now

694
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: you have a specific geographic location where you can tie

695
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 1: specific people to that location, such as the owner of

696
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: the property, the people that frequent that location. So it's

697
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 1: like a gigantic sweater. It's kind of what I teach

698
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 1: my my students at Jacksonville State. If you pull on

699
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: that string, which your mom always tells you not to,

700
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: the whole thing begins to come unraveled. And you know

701
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: this as a prosecutor. All it takes is to find

702
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: that one string, and the fact that they're found at

703
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:48,720
Speaker 1: a specific location ties it back to a bigger picture.

704
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: That hopefully will be revealed if in fact they have

705
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 1: handled these remains appropriately. Right now, we apparently are still

706
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: on standby to determine the truth about this, this discovery,

707
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: the Natalie Holloway case. But art when you think about

708
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: it again, this is her own father saying this, not

709
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:10,879
Speaker 1: some reporter trying to make a buck. It is there

710
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 1: on the island of Aruba, and the father says Dave

711
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:19,320
Speaker 1: Holloway says, it is human remains. It is human remains.

712
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 1: Well that, Joe, I'd be fascinating to know how you

713
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: can tell the difference from human remains are human bones

714
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 1: and animal bones. But they somebody has determined that, uh

715
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: per the father, and this has been an eighteen month investigation,

716
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 1: he has said, so, so it's not just a drive by.

717
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: Let's get some dirt and see what's down there. Uh.

718
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: They have apparently analyzed this to be what they have found.

719
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 1: I agree. Are you know that number kept coming up?

720
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 1: Eighteen months? Eighteen months, that's a long time, man. And

721
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: if they've had these remains, I don't know how long

722
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 1: they've had these remains, and who has taken a look

723
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 1: at them, who has handled them? That that's that's the

724
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 1: big question my mind. It's not it's not that I'm

725
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 1: skeptical as much as I am. I'm a pregnant this year.

726
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 1: I just well, here's the other thing. I hate, the

727
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: disappointment for the family if it turns out not to

728
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: be Natalie, because there have been so many false leads.

729
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: In fact, just recently Aruba prosecutor said that another tip

730
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: about her location turned out to be false. They had

731
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 1: just received a tip from a man who claimed to

732
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: be a witness to her disappearance, and um that man

733
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 1: had been identified as Urien Young. He insisted Holloway was

734
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 1: buried under a staircase at the Marriott Hotel in Aruba.

735
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: That turned out to be false. Um, of course, the

736
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 1: whole team flew there and the hotel spyglass tower and

737
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:49,280
Speaker 1: staircase was built. Neither the tower nor the staircase was

738
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 1: was there when Holloway went missing. And after all the

739
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: drama surrounding that, the times didn't work out where the

740
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 1: witness said she was buried that didn't even exist at

741
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: the time she went missing. It's just been one thing

742
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 1: after the next for Natalie Holloway's family, and I just pray,

743
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:14,320
Speaker 1: pray that their nightmare is over Nancy Grace crime stories,

744
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend,