WEBVTT - Just Keep Buying 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:08.680 Welcome to Trillions. I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric Baltunis. 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:15.880 You've been on this book reading binge, Eric ever since 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:17.920 you published your book, and we have an author here today, 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:20.840 who would you bring us? Yeah? When I published my book, 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:23.440 there's always a cold books like below that says people 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:25.239 who bought this like this one, you know that thing, 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:27.639 and this one is always there. And it's somebody I 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:30.920 know from um Riddholtz and it's Nick Julie and his 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:33.839 book is called just Keep Buying, which is somehow I 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:36.400 feel linked to the book I wrote, which was I mean, 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:39.320 there's no way Jack Bogel would disagree with this premise. 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:42.120 And what I liked about it is it's very practical. 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:45.200 It's a really good book. It explains why you want 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:48.120 to invest, how to invest in. It splits between savings 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:51.600 and investing, and savings actually is important as well. It's 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:54.639 half the battle, and I just it's really laid out 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:57.320 very well. I like some of the anecdotes, and I 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:00.000 also think I've come My theory is that we're an 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:03.160 in an investor Enlightenment era and the first phase was 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:05.400 just to get the friction out of the way. Low costs, 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:08.679 index funds. The second phase of this era is behavior, 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:11.000 and there's a lot of behavior in here. You know, 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:14.160 once you understand why you're investing, how it works, what 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:18.039 to use, it's very easy to behave. If you don't 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:20.600 know any of that, your emotions take get the best 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:21.920 of you. So I think that's a big part of 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:24.280 this book as well. And um, but this year is 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:25.880 a crazy year for the market, So I think it's 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:29.520 a good it's an interesting title just keep buying for 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:32.840 this year. Maybe it's even more important title this year. 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:36.000 So yeah, I thought we'd be cool to dig into 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:39.520 this um and get kind of practical. So joining us 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:42.160 on trillions this time we've got Nick Mjuli, who's the 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:47.319 chief operating officer and data scientists that Ridholt's wealth management 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:57.080 this time on trillions. Just keep buying, Nick, Welcome to Trillians. 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:00.000 Thanks guys harving me on. Okay, So three word tie 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:04.680 I said a few times already, just keep buying. Uh, 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:07.200 what else do I need to know? Because that's what 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:09.880 I'm doing, man, I'm just I just keep buying. What what? 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:11.760 What could you possibly feel in a book other than 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:13.959 those three words? I mean, that's it's saying if I 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:15.560 can only give you three words, there's are the three 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:17.240 words I can give you, right, there's the three words 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:19.400 I would give you, but um to expand on that. 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:21.880 It's the you know, continual purchase of a diverse set 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:23.800 of income producing assets, if I could give you a sentence. 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:26.079 But then beyond that, the books not just about dollar 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:28.200 cost averaging. Obvious. Some people just like, oh, that's obviously, 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:29.680 I'm not gonna read it. Like, no, there's a lot 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:31.640 more to it. There's a lot pieces of savings about 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:34.280 personal finance, things like how do I save for a house? 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:36.320 You know, am I saving enough for retirement? How much 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:38.680 should I say for retirement? You know, why should I invest? 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:41.480 You know? What should I think about market volatility? Et cetera? 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:43.880 All those types of things. Okay, so I said your 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:48.639 job title chief operating officer and data scientists. What did Barry, 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:53.120 who's a frequent guest, What did Barry say when you 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.080 were like, Hey, I'm gonna write this book. Uh he was. 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:57.800 I kind of just told him after I was already 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:00.320 writing it actually, Like it's like I said, get a proval. 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:03.160 I was like, hey, I was like, yeah, I'm writing 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:04.679 a book. Barry's like, Okay, great. Yeah, He's like, you 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:06.200 put out enough stuff now, I think you can probably 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:08.480 come up with something like Okay, cool, thanks appreciate that Berry. 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:10.600 So yeah, and I did, basically, But no, he's he's 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:13.079 always been supportive. I mean, I love Barry. I'm obviously, 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:15.080 you know, not just because he's like one of my bosses, 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:16.680 but because you know, Barry is just a great guy 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:18.320 to be around. And you know, I believe in the 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:21.120 vision that we're building there. So yeah, um, just how 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:22.680 did you get the title? I love there's a little 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:25.320 anecdote in here, and I love that you were able 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:28.480 to find this title through something you saw. Can you 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:30.680 go through that story how the title came to you? Yeah, 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:32.799 So there's this so Casey and I said, it's like 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:34.280 a YouTuber And you guys may have heard of him 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:35.560 used to. I think I don't know if he YouTube 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:36.800 as much now as he used to be used to 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:38.400 like a daily vlog. And he was in New York 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:42.440 City and he had a he had a video called 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:45.600 three words to get to three million subs right, And 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:48.760 there's another YouTuber named Roman Atwood and gave him this advice. 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:49.960 He said, if you want to get to you want 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:51.400 to really grow your audience. You know, I'm just gonna 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:53.920 give you three three words of advice. Just keep uploading. 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:55.480 And so his that was his mantra every day and 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:56.920 need upload a video every day, and need to upload 0:03:56.920 --> 0:03:58.680 a video. He kept doing it, and Casey and I 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.240 sitting now was like one of the biggest YouTube wars ever. UM. 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:03.800 And actually I used that. UM. I remember hearing that 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:05.760 right around the same time. I was doing some analysis 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:08.160 on the stock market and I realized, like, wait, just 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:10.240 keep up, just keep buying. It kind of fits. It's 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:12.280 a it's a catchier way of saying dollar cost average 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:14.640 becahen you say dollar cost averaging, people's eyes glaze over. 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:17.279 I think this is a catchier way and actually is 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:20.880 a more aggressive investment allocation approach. And really this actually 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:23.480 that intro chapter kind of came from a blog post 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:26.560 I wrote literally, you know, uh, five years to the 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:28.560 day before the book came out. It was just by 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:30.600 chance that happened. As origin the book supposed to go 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:32.600 on earlier, but due to supply chain stuff, we had 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:35.720 to push it a couple two months. In the paper 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:37.800 Short had the great paper Short once that was sorted out, 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:39.160 though I realize, like, oh my gosh, that's weird. Like 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:41.760 literally five years to the day before the book came out, 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:43.560 like that was when I wrote the blog post just 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:46.160 keep Buying, which is arguably my first post that really 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:48.480 kind of like went did well for me as a blogger, 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:49.960 right when I didn't really have an audience and kind 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:52.039 of kind of blew up a little bit relative to 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:54.720 to my audience at the time. People, Yeah, went from 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:56.560 twelve people like fifty people. I was like, wow, this 0:04:56.600 --> 0:05:01.760 is got here. You've dropped a phrase their dollar cost averaging. 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:04.719 Break that down because that's not something that we've really 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:06.560 ever talked about on the on the podcast. But so 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:08.920 the issue I have an issue with this word because 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:12.159 there's two different definitions out there, and if you're not careful, 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:14.680 you'll use both of them without realizing it. So the 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:17.280 traditional definition, which Benjamin Graham I think came up with, 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:19.320 was just buying over time. Right, So, if you have 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:21.719 a four wing K, you're making contributions every two weeks 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:24.720 every month whatever that's considered dollar cost averaging. You're investing 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:26.960 as soon as you get the money. That's what it's about. 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:29.560 There's another definition, this is a definition I do not like, 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:31.720 and I try not to use this definition, which is, 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:33.599 let's say you just got an inheritance of a hundred 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:36.240 thousand dollars and you slowly kind of average that into 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:37.800 the market, so you don't put it on. You don't 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:40.360 buy not worth of stocks. Now, now you don't lump 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:42.920 some you you Dollar cost averaging is what they would say. 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:44.880 I do not like that definition. I do not use 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:47.360 that term. I don't use dollar cost averaging for that 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:49.520 term because I think it's so confusing. You can see, 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:51.240 those are very different things. Buying as soon as you 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:53.520 have the money, even in small increments is very different 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:56.000 than taking a large amount of money and slowly averaging in. 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:58.720 And they're very different strategies. And that second strategy, the 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:02.680 averaging in UM, is subpar across the board. I've tested 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:04.880 it every way to Sunday and it just does not 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:09.880 outperform relates to lottery winnings. Also that that term is 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:12.880 just for most normal people. It's it sounds financial and 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:15.719 it's boring. Yeah, for some reason, dollar cost averaging, but 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.800 it's it is powerful UM. Let's you broke this book 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:21.240 down into two parts. The first half is on savings. 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:22.839 And I like the way at the beginning he's like, look, 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:24.520 if if you have enough money saved, just go to 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:27.880 the second part. I won't be offended. Um. Yeah, I 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:31.760 which the second part is investing, which is investing. Yeah, 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:35.640 but here's a line in here that sounds it stuck 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:38.039 out to me. It almost sounds harsh, but it's true, 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:41.440 which is saving is for the poor and investing is 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:44.480 for the rich. Um. And you go to explain that, 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:48.200 but I guess, just talk about what that means. You know, 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:50.640 if you're have if you're young, or don't make a 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:54.880 lot of money, investing might not be as uh the 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:57.839 ticket you think it is early on, And I guess 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:00.680 just explain that that dynamic there. I just think that, 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:02.719 I mean, we can just do this with a simple example. 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.440 The issue was just like investing is on that impactful 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:07.680 when you don't have that much money invested, for example, 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:10.320 And I the story I tell in the first chapter. 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:12.400 I was twenty three years old, I had a thousand 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:15.120 dollars to my name. I was analyzing my investments every 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:17.080 way possible. I was like, you know, oh, what should 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:19.880 I have five percent bonds? Ten percent bonds? I was 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:21.960 neurotic basically. But the end of the day, I only 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:23.640 had a thousand dollars invested, even if I got a 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:25.600 ten percent return on my portfolio, which is like a 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:28.280 good year. You know, what is that a hundred bucks? 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:30.120 Like I was at the same time, I was going 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:32.200 out with my friends in San Francisco and blowing that 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:35.120 hundred dollars on dinner, drinks, you know, uber home whatever. 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:38.160 Like it was very easy to blow that hundred dollars. 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:41.000 So you can see that my investment returns didn't really matter, 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:44.200 but my spending in a given day mattered a lot more, right, 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:45.920 And I'm not not saying that tell you not to 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:47.400 go out with your friends, And that's not the point 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:48.760 of that. The point of that story is to say, 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:50.320 when you don't have a lot of money to invest, 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:52.280 it doesn't really matter. We should be focusing on is 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:53.960 your career and how much you can save. And then 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:56.440 once you have some money saved up and ready to 0:07:56.480 --> 0:07:59.440 invest or you've invested already. That's where let that lever 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:01.440 matters more so. It's about it's about just like where 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:03.280 you focus your attention and where you kind of get 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:05.480 the biggest return for your use of time. And so 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:07.280 I think for when I say savings for the poor 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:09.880 investings for the rich, I mean that on a absolute 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:12.000 and a relative sense, Like I wouldn't consider myself a 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:13.760 poor person. As a twenty two year old living in 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:15.640 San Francisco, I was not poor, but I was poor 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:17.680 relative to my future self. And that's kind of how 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:19.320 I want you to think about it, Not like I 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:20.920 was an abject poverty. I'm not trying to say that 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:23.160 at all, um, but just think about that, like whether 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:25.320 you're poor on absolute level or on a relative level 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:26.840 to your future self. That's how I want you to 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:30.360 think about that problem and how you make decisions. First 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:32.600 of all, I just love that simplicity of that breakdown, right, 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:35.440 Like you can't invest until you save, you can't save 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.400 until you actually figure out how to make more money, 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:41.040 and and actually you know, be diligent in your savings, 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:44.120 and there is sort of that that transition between your 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:45.920 younger self and an older self that might be able 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:49.400 to to get there, but you still have to figure 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:51.480 out a way to start investing. Right. And so I'm 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:53.200 curious in the book, like how do you write about 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:57.120 turning that corner and going from somebody who might not 0:08:57.160 --> 0:09:00.439 be able to save to actually being able to like invest, 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:04.400 because I think that that's there's a huge financial literacy 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:07.880 component there where people are just intimidated not in the market, 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:10.760 not in the market, and speaking very broad terms, because 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:12.599 the last year has been insane and a lot of 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:15.679 people did get in and bought high and have witnessed 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:18.160 the carnage. But how do you talk to how do 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:21.559 you talk talk to people in general about that switch 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:24.480 to becoming investors. I mean, I think the main thing 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:26.680 is obviously you're right once you have some money to invest, 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:29.200 Like I think actually, if I had written this book 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:31.200 in tween, I think that question would have been a 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:33.280 lot more it had been a lot more difficult to 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:35.679 answer because they're you know, investing wasn't as forefront as 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:38.280 it is now due to Robin Hood. It just became like, yeah, 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:41.680 everybody's armchair. Everyone kind of knows. I think not everyone. 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:43.360 I mean, of course there's still people that don't. There 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:45.240 are people unbanked, all that stuff, but I think most 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:46.960 people have heard of Robin would have heard of things. 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:49.120 So the issue isn't with robin Hood. It's what you're 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:50.880 buying on robin Hood, right, It's like you can buy 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:52.600 e t s, you can buy all the stuff that 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:54.680 a lot of you know, people would say is prudent 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:57.840 investment management. So it's not the tools necessarily, it's just 0:09:57.880 --> 0:09:59.520 how you're using them. So I would say it's like, oh, 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:01.520 most you will probably hurt of robin Hood, like, oh, 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:04.080 have your robin Hood account and instead of buying things 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:06.600 like GameStop, maybe you buy something like I don't want 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:08.360 to give a ticker out, but just a index fund 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:11.200 of something. Okay, I did not say that. I can 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:14.160 say I can't recommend tickers, but I don't. I don't 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:16.080 think that's a great ticker. Let's I'll say I can't. 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:18.160 I can't recommend it or deny it. But that's all 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:20.720 I'm gonna say is like tickers out there for broad 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:22.760 based index funds that you can buy that are very 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:25.160 good and very cheap. Right, And so that's an example. 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:26.839 Eric just gave an example of one of them that 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:29.480 you can choose from. So yeah, I agree, I mean 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:31.960 robin Hood does they are motivated to get you to 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:34.400 trade more with the confetti dropping and that it's like 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:37.920 a casino mindset there. But you're right, you can get 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:40.960 that stuff there. People just tend to go to Robin 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:43.800 to do other things. But I like the idea of 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:47.959 the focusing on saving and your income ability when you're young, 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:50.439 because it's also a motivating factor. There was a sort 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:53.559 of get rich quick easy way with the Robin hood 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:56.120 game stop thing that was a big thing. And by 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:58.480 saying well, look, you should really focus on your earning 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:01.880 you can control that early on, is a good message. 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:05.360 Now when it comes to retirement savings, you have this 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:09.120 really interesting UM case stud or experiment they did which 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:12.320 I love this. Listen to this um Individuals who saw 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:16.240 the older versions of themselves right through an age progressed 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.560 rendering like you know when you digitally aid yourself on 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:21.960 that app, they allocated about two percent more of their 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:25.040 pay on average to retirement versus people who didn't see 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:28.440 such photos. I explain that, and I might use that. 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:30.280 I might put a picture of my seven year old 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.080 self up on my mirror. You know how Rocky had 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:34.800 that picture of club laying up there. I might. I 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:36.800 might put my seven year old self up there, just 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:39.320 to give myself a little extra motivation. Do you have 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:41.960 an old picture of yourself around? No? No, I do not. 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:44.320 I do not use that because I mean, there's actually 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:46.560 other research in that in that chapter where I talked 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:48.040 about they asked that asked a bunch of people. You 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:50.079 know what motivates people to say? They found like, is 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:52.200 it like a vacation? Is your children? All this stuff 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:54.840 besides emergencies, which people do want to say for once 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:56.880 that's out of the way, once your emergency funds done, 0:11:57.200 --> 0:11:59.720 the only thing that motivates people to save is themselves. Actually, 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:01.720 so really like, if you want to say for your future, 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:03.160 you have to be selfish. And so I think that 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:05.400 the idea of using that face app or would have 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:07.320 to see an old version of yourself is you realize 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:08.640 you're going to be an old person. You want to 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:10.400 take care of that old person. So that's what investing 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:12.240 is supposed to do. Right, You're supposed to be replacing 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:14.360 your income when you can no longer or don't want 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:16.600 to work anymore, and you replace that income with your 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:18.920 investment income. Right, it's the kind of the whole idea there. 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:20.800 And so be selfish. It's okay to be selfish in 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.280 that case, isn't that so true? Like you know, there 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:24.720 was I've read a book. I think it might have 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:27.560 been um think and grow rich. Forget it was. You 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:30.280 put something up where you see it every day. Like 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:31.959 when I wrote my book, had a whiteboard where I 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:35.400 just clock time that I've spent writing, and that thing 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:37.760 in my face every day. I'm telling you it really 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:40.679 just putting something up there to motivate you. I think 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:43.960 it really it's interesting. I'm not surprised that works, um, 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:46.200 but I would. I'm kind of curious to see an 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:50.120 old version of Joel. I mean he already looks seven. Yeah. 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:53.679 Remember remember my brother sees me. He's like, hey, you're 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:56.720 coldest sex in your forehead? Are looking really strong? Power alleys? 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:05.200 Uh So, So Nick, let's talk a little bit more 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:08.440 about the dusting aside. Because once you're in the market 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:12.120 and you you have that exposure, it's common sense just 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:15.120 to keep buying. So what what added value do have 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:18.599 for us? For those of us who are active participants 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:21.640 and are already doing what the title of your book suggests. 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:23.360 I mean, I think you know, if it for some 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:25.199 people that it's easy to do, yeah, just keep doing 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:27.079 what you're doing. I think the the issue is like 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:29.199 that's not easy for everyone, Like, especially in a year 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:32.320 like this where we have high inflation, there's geopolitical risk. 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:35.600 You know, even bonds are declining by a large amount, 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:37.840 so even things that were considered safe or not as 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:39.920 safe as they were. Um, so there's a lot of 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:42.720 things like that going on, where like we have acid declines, 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:46.240 high inflation, and people are worried. So in those cases, 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:48.160 like just keep buying. It's it's much harder to do it. 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:49.560 And so, like I know, people a lot of people 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:51.280 joked like, of course this book will come out at 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:52.840 the end of a bolt marker. I just keep buying 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:55.120 at the top. But actually by the time it came out, 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:57.040 you know, in April of this year, like the market 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:59.679 was down, like pretty good timing. Yeah, yeah, so it's 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:01.520 like I actually wrote it more for a bear market 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:03.560 than the bowl market. And so that's my favorite chapter 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:05.560 in the books, chapter seventeen, which is about like how 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:07.679 to think about buying during a market crash, which is 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:10.040 a much much different. I have a different framework for 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:11.640 looking at that because I think it's the only way 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:13.160 to really kind of get through these dark times. We'll 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:15.120 walk us through that because like we are we are 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:16.960 there or so it feels like, yeah, well I would 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:18.920 say this is a more minor of mark. I mean 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.200 that happened much more regularly. I think what I'm talking 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:24.080 about is a much worse crash. But either way, like 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:26.960 is the same. Yeah. Yeah, So for example, I'll give 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:29.720 you the math and what happened in COVID nineteen in March. 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:32.680 So at the time, I think at the bottom, we 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:35.120 were down thirty three percent going into that Monday, which 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:39.720 is March, and so being down roughly thirty you know, 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:41.680 this is just simple math. To get back to even 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:43.120 you have to go up fifty percent. And I'll just 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:45.640 run the numbers for you. Let's say you know Indexes 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:49.040 at hundred goes down to sixty six. To from sixty 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:50.640 six back to a hundred, you have to go up 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:53.120 roughly thirty three, which is half of six six fifty 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:55.880 percent gain, right, And so you just do that math. 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:59.160 The larger the decline, the bigger they gain to get 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:01.720 back to even. So now once you know that, right, 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:03.640 that's just simple math. Once you know that, you can 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:05.600 actually kind of back out. You can say, okay, how 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:07.040 long do I think the markets don't take to recover? 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:08.720 You come up with a fair estimate. You know, you 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:10.680 can ask other people as well, and then you can 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:13.600 back out the markets expected return from this point back 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:15.960 to the high. Right, And so at the time I think, 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:18.960 I asked Twitter, and you know the media answers two 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:21.160 to three years. So if we're down fifty percent, Remember 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:22.720 this is not exact math. You have to do compounding, 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:24.680 and I'm just gonna make this linear. So let's say 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:27.240 you know, you know, divided by two, that would be 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:29.320 about tent a year. Divided by three, you're looking at 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:32.320 seventeen eighteen percent a year, like annualized returns to get 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:34.440 back to the Like, those are great returns, Like who 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:36.320 wouldn't want to buy it? Then? Like, when you look 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:38.160 at it from that perspective, you're like, wait, this is 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:39.840 a huge deal, right, Like if I buy right now, 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:41.840 I'm gonna be You're gonna give me seventeen percent returns 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:43.560 to get back to even, like just to get back 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:45.600 to even, Like that's amazing. And so of course there's 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:47.720 always the case where it takes longer. But my point is, 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:50.440 let's say you're getting those seventent anialize returns to get 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:52.120 back to even. That's a huge return. And that's why 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:54.320 when you reframe it, you're like, wow, Like why wouldn't 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:56.600 I be buying right now? It's clearly a bargain. And 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:58.680 what actually happened within six months here at all time 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:00.240 highs and it was like a hundred and six percent 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:03.720 annualized return or something so absolutely absurd what happened? No one, 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:06.240 I think expected that, not even even as optimistic as 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:07.560 I was. I thought I was gonna take like maybe 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:09.840 two years to recover. But that's kind of how I 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:11.280 look at it. So right now, if we're down what 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:14.000 our fourteen percent, and that's not a big enough amount 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:15.480 for me to like, you know, think about all we 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:16.800 can do the math. Okay, what is it to get 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:19.000 back to even maybe fifteen percent? Let's say it takes 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:20.840 two years, you're still looking at like what seven percent 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:22.960 returns roughly, So like that's like an average year, right 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:24.520 if you were by right now, you're basically gonna expect 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:26.280 average returns if it takes two years to get back 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:28.920 to a high. So that's not bad, right considering all else. 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:32.000 So as you're talking and you talked about people, Oh, 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:33.840 of course this book comes out after a little market, 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:37.440 like there's this this the Bears on Twitter there, I 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:39.680 can see this title kind of just pissing them off 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.120 a little like, oh, you're just easy. The FED was there, 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:45.480