WEBVTT - #320 Jason Flom with Lamonte McIntyre 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.600 We originally released our interview with Lamon McIntyre on September 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:12.680 twenty fifth, twenty seventeen. Since then, a monumental shift has 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:16.560 occurred in the dynamic that resulted with Lamont behind bars 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:19.640 and the guy who deliberately framed him for a crime 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:24.400 he didn't commit living free as a detective for Kansas City, Kansas. 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:27.840 It's alleged that Roger Golupski was notorious in the black 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:31.800 community for using his authority to coerce women into sexual 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:35.239 acts in exchange for leniency, turning a blind eye, or 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:39.080 just for the courtesy of having him not frame them 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:42.920 or a family member. I'm cautiously optimistic about what appears 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:46.080 to be the beginning of some semblance of justice for 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:50.479 Gallupski and the good people of Kansas City. Gallupski has 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:54.440 now been formally charged in several cases. In September twenty 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:57.720 twenty two for two counts of sexual assault the same 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:01.240 mom as we just mentioned, and then in November twenty 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:05.240 twenty two, an indictment was revealed in which Glupski was 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:08.560 alleged to have conspired with a drug kingpin to run 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:14.200 a sex trafficking operation that routinely victimized miners. Kallupski allegedly 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:18.280 shielded the operation from investigation in exchange for cash and 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:21.520 sexual acts from his choice of girls. One of the 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:25.160 victims alleged that Glupski choked and raped her when she 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:29.160 was just sixteen years old. Klupski maintains his innocence, but 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:32.280 if these allegations are true, I hope he burns in 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:35.240 the very real hell in which he puts so many 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:45.720 innocent and at risk people. On April fifteenth, nineteen ninety four, 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:48.840 Donnielle Quinn and Donald Ewing were fatally shot while sitting 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:51.200 at a powder blue Cadillac when a man dressed in 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:55.280 black pumped four shotgun rounds into the car, and one 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:58.520 alleged witness claimed to have recognized the shooter as an acquaintance, 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:03.720 quote unquote Laman Something. Another witness identified seventeen year old 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:08.040 Lamont McIntyre from a photo lineup. Both witnesses made positive 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:11.720 identifications in court, and despite a total lack of corroborating 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:14.720 physical evidence, this case appeared to be as open and 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:18.600 shut as they come, resulting in two consecutive life prison 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:23.520 terms for Lamont McIntyre. On this episode, we Speak with 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:27.840 Lamont's appellet attorney Cheryl Pilot, former FBI agent and police 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:31.480 corruption expert Al Jeneric, as well as Lamont himself from 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:35.079 behind bars to find out how this seemingly righteous prosecution 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:40.640 had actually been corrupted from the very start. This is 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:56.520 wrongful conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason flamm 0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:01.160 Today's episode will make your blood boil and it will 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:04.880 blow your mind. So settle in because this is going 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:06.120 to be a crazy ride. 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:10.160 Guilty one word ceiling Lamont McIntyre's fate. 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:13.600 Lamont McIntyre, aged seventeen in nineteen ninety four, has so 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:16.920 far been imprisoned for twenty two years. Twenty two years ago, 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:19.960 two young men, twenty one year old Donielle Quinn and 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:22.720 his thirty four year old cousin Donald Ewing, were gunned 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:25.120 down in a horrible double homicide. 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:28.960 Six hours after the murder's police arrested McIntyre, but never 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:30.800 searched his house for evidence. 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:34.320 Moreover, it was a trial which prosecutors offered no physical 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:38.080 evidence tying McIntyre to the crime, no motive, no connection 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:41.839 between him and the victims, no weapon, no fingerprints, Nor 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:45.440 did Kansas City Kansas Belief even request search warrants to 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:46.840 find any of that material. 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:50.320 A retired officer who reviewed the case calls the investigation 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:51.680 grossly deficient. 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.200 Most notable is that the family of the victims for 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:59.640 twenty two years have steadfastly insisted that he is innocent. 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:03.040 Other witnesses also relatives of the victim, insisted as soon 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:05.800 as they saw McIntyre sitting at the defense table they 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:08.480 knew he was not the shooter. They told the prosecutor, 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.560 but were ignored. One family member has signed an affi David, 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:14.440 claiming that under pressure from police and the prosecutor, she 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:15.960 lied at McIntyre's trial. 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:19.200 For the first time, a jur is speaking publicly about 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:22.240 the case, Greg Lauber says that he now believes that 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:24.520 yan Dot County jury was wrong. 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:27.760 They didn't care about anything. They just had their man. 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:31.039 And it was enough for the twelve person jury. In deliberations, 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:34.080 Lauber says he and another juror were holdouts, but it 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:36.279 was late in the day and there was mounting pressure 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:38.080 from others who wanted a verdict. 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:41.200 Maybe I had an opportunity to, you know, do something 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:43.800 good on that jury, but I sure didn't do it. 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:45.920 I took a coward's way out. 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:49.440 It is the speedy investigation and prosecution of that crime 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:52.400 in this place that a team of exonerators now insist 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:56.600 was also the focus of a terrible injustice. Lamont McIntyre, 0:04:56.680 --> 0:04:59.320 aged seventeen in nineteen ninety four, has so far been 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:02.360 imprisoned for tw twenty two years, convicted, and given two 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:06.719 consecutive life sentences for a crime they say you never committed. 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.120 Well, I'm just gonna say I'm really happy that today 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:14.960 joining us to discuss the insane case of Lamont McIntyre. 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:20.000 We have with us Lamont's attorney, Cheryl Pilot, as well 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:25.479 as retired FBI special agent Al Jenerich. Cheryl and Al, 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:26.600 thank you for being here. 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:27.440 Thank you so much. 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:29.000 We're glad to be here, happy to be. 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:31.680 Here, and we will be hearing later on in the 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:35.719 episode from Lamont, who will be calling in from president Kansas, 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:40.120 where he has been incarcerated for approximately twenty four years 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:43.560 now since he was a teenager for a crime that 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:47.479 he did not commit. Now, let's go back to the beginning. 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:50.440 On April fifteenth, nineteen ninety four, there are two men 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:54.080 sitting in a Cadillac in Kansas City, Kansas, when they 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:56.560 were approached by a man with a shotgun. These facts 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.120 are not in dispute right correct, And what we know 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:02.360 is that four shots were fired into the car, killing 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:07.680 the passenger Donielle Quinn instantly and the driver, Donald Ewing, 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:12.040 who died later in the hospital. And amazingly, within six hours, 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:14.000 they managed to find a guy who had nothing to 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:17.320 do with the crime, Lamont McIntyre, who was seventeen at 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:21.080 the time, and he was arrested and charged with two 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:25.320 counts of first degree murder in spite of a total 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:28.760 lack of any physical evidence connecting him to the crime. 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:32.920 How did this happen? Cheryl and Al jump in whenever 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:33.400 you want. 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:40.920 Lamont was arrested and prosecuted after police obtained three interviews 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:45.680 from eyewitnesses, one of them never testified. But the taped 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:49.960 interviews of these eyewitnesses in a very serious crime obviously 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:52.520 where someone can go to prison for the rest of 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:57.080 their life, amounted to a total of twenty taped minutes, 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:02.039 and one of the eyewitnesses was only interviewed for four minutes. 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:04.080 Is that an investigation? 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:05.080 What is that? 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:07.919 So? Al, You've done a lot of research and you 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:10.720 were in the FBI for quite a while, is that right. 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:13.680 I was in the FBI for twenty five years. I 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:18.280 was a special agent. I specialized in investigating police corruption. 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:24.200 I worked in Chicago very successfully, and then in Kansas City, Kansas. 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:28.120 Agent Generich was not involved with this murder case at 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:33.200 all when it happened. I knew mister Generich through other cases, 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:37.120 and after he retired a number of years. After he retired, 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:42.160 actually and I was working on trying to achieve Lamont's exoneration, 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:45.960 I approached him to talk to him about the Kansas City, 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:49.680 Kansas Police Department and things that I had uncovered in 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:54.520 my investigation. And it was at that point that Alan 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:57.640 I started talking about some of the things he had 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:03.880 learned while working for the FBI, and they matched up 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:06.640 with some of the things I had uncovered in my investigation. 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:10.000 And it was because of that that he became a 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:13.240 witness in this case that I hope to use at 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:13.800 our hearing. 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:20.320 So, prior to Lamont's arrest, can we talk about what 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:25.560 was happening with this particular cop, whose name was Roger Glubski. 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:29.080 Sometime around nineteen eighty eight or so, I was able 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:33.360 to open an investigation into police corruption in Kansas City, Kansas. 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:37.920 And as the investigation went on over time, over many years, 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:42.920 we developed maybe somewhere between twelve and fifteen police officers 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:47.160 who were titled subjects of the investigation. Some of it 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:50.720 involved civil rights like beating people up, stealing their shoes 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:53.160 when they were walking down the street because the officer 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:56.120 liked the shoes, or in the case of Kulupski, you know, 0:08:56.559 --> 0:09:01.400 sexual extortion. But most of it involved corruption involving drugs, 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:05.440 mostly cocaine. And in the course of this investigation, just 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:07.880 by talking to people, which is what I'm pretty good at, 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:11.880 over time, you know, a number of people told us 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:16.160 about Gaulupski extorting sex from black women and he liked 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:20.800 black women. We never developed enough evidence on Gallupski to 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:24.880 prosecute him. That's the extent of my knowledge about Gallupski. 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:28.480 I always believed that that police were good, and the 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:30.840 police were on our side and they're there to protect 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:34.680 us all and so I always find these stories, even 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:37.520 as long as I've been working on this issue, and 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:40.920 I've got twenty five years now of experience, but I 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:45.199 always find these stories so just depressing and shocking, and 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:46.640 it flips everything upside down. 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:50.559 Well, like you, I was very naive until I went 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:54.080 to Chicago, and then I sought police corruption on the 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:56.720 mass of scale. But then when I got back to 0:09:56.800 --> 0:10:00.720 Kansas City in eighty six and probably got involved in 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:03.640 Kansas City, Kansas in eighty eight, and I saw the 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:07.760 same activity there, it wasn't on the grand scale. You know. 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:12.679 It's that it's conducted in Chicago. It's basically police officers, 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:16.240 most of whom are white, picking on minorities, most of 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:19.520 whom are black, some of them are Hispanic. Because when 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:22.000 you're a drug dealer, you know, you can't go to 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:24.959 the police or the FBI and say, hey, these cops 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.680 are stealing my drugs, these cops are stealing my drug money. 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:31.080 You basically have to you have to suck it up. 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:34.080 So that's what they do in Chicago's what they do everywhere. 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:41.800 So Lamont his troubles really began when his mom was 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:44.120 at a car with I guess was her boyfriend at 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:48.640 the time. Shoyl Right Glubski approached the car and told 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:52.200 her to get out and threatened her with arrest or 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:54.760 the rest of her boyfriend unless she agreed to come 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:58.640 down to the police station. And then the problems really 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:03.080 began when she refused to become one of his girls, 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:06.560 so to speak. Right, I mean, obviously, she was in 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:11.880 a terrible situation where she's very vulnerable, not able to 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:14.400 defend herself from a cop who's willing to go to 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:18.000 almost any lengths to fulfill his desires. She had a 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:23.240 tremendous problem, and she decided that she wanted to maintain 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:26.840 her dignity, really right, And so what seems like happened 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:30.280 is that as a consequence, Golubski decided that he would 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:35.240 target and frame her son in something that is so 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:38.240 evil that makes me want to quit the human race. 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:43.360 There was an encounter that Lamon's mother had with the 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:47.199 detective some years earlier. I mean it was years actually 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:51.680 before the double homicide happened. And at the time of 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:56.959 the double homicide, my client was inexplicably dragged into the case. 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:00.600 One of the eyewitnesses told the police she thought the 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:04.480 shooter looked like a Lamont dating her niece. Police never 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:07.360 bothered to find out what Lamont that was. They don't 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.960 go ask the niece what Lamont that was. They simply 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:15.199 put another Lamont. And it's undisputed an entirely different. Lamont, 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:21.959 my client into the case and somehow obtain this identification. 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:25.920 What's interesting about the lineup, and I've never seen anything 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:29.960 like this before, is three of the five photos were 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:33.400 of young male members of the McIntyre family. 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:37.000 You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to say, well, 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:41.400 that doesn't make a lot of sense. It's one perpetrator. 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:43.480 It's not like somebody said there were three brothers that 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:47.360 were involved. It's one perpetrator, you know. And then the 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:52.600 justice system, we know has a tendency to chew people 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:56.240 up and spit them out when they are poor, particularly 0:12:56.320 --> 0:13:01.120 if they're minorities and underrepresented. It's really it's not a 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:02.520 fair fight, is it. 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:07.360 Well, I mean, this whole thing was an impossible battle 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:11.040 for Lamont to begin with. I mean, first of all, 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:16.560 the investigation itself, I don't think really qualified is a 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:20.280 true investigation because so little was done. No evidence of 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:24.160 motive was ever uncovered. There was no physical evidence that 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:26.720 tied Lamont to the crime. There was not even any 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:30.359 evidence that he knew the two victims. There are backgrounds 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.560 of the two victims and who might have a motive 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:37.480 to harm them that was never investigated. There was an 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:42.040 eyewitness directly across the street who was never interviewed, whose 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:44.960 mother said, you know, she knows who the suspect is. 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:50.280 I mean, the failures and lapses and irregularities in this 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.480 case just go on and on. I mean, other than 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:57.480 the twenty minutes of taped interviews from the eyewitnesses, there 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:01.040 was very little else and the only evidence at trial 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:07.040 against Lamont were two eyewitnesses. One of them has admitted 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:11.400 that she lied, that she was coursed. The other eyewitness 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:15.880 seems frankly, very perplexed by her testimony, and it's very 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:22.239 clear that it's an eyewitness a misidentification based on manipulation. 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.880 And we know also that had this trial taken place 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.200 twenty years later or so, with everything that's known now 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:33.440 about the unreliability of eyewitness identification, there's a very good 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:35.600 chance that would have been discredited because there was no 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:37.160 other evidence connecting him to the crime. 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:41.280 You take a person who's traumatized, who has just witnessed 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:45.560 a really horrific event, and they can be pretty easy 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:50.200 to pressure or manipulate. And in fact, this witness provided 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:53.000 in a tape statement my client's last name a man. 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:55.400 She did not know and had never heard of, which 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.720 raises the very interesting question of who gave her the name. 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:03.840 Was disputed at trial that she did not know my client, 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:07.320 yet the fact that there was an original tape statement 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:11.200 where she provided his name never came out. That was 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:15.560 never admitted at trial. She also stated wrongly that my 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.520 client was the Lamont who had dated her niece. At 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:21.400 trial undisputed that that was not true. It was an 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:25.480 entirely different Lamont who was in fact identified by his 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:29.320 name to the jury, an entirely different person. So, I mean, 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:33.640 the whole thing is troubling beginning to end, really a 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:40.960 perfect storm of chaos and horror and misconduct, things being 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:41.920 done improperly. 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:46.840 So you have this cop and this department that is 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:50.800 so corrupt isn't even the right word, but that's engaged 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:54.720 in so many illegal activities. And isn't it ironic and 0:15:54.800 --> 0:16:00.360 tragic that Lamont is in prison living in hell after 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:05.240 twenty four years and this cop who was from what 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:11.480 I've read, raping people, robbing people, dealing drugs, protecting drug dealers, 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:14.520 he's out. How is that? I mean, that must not 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.200 sit well with you, with your whole background either. 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:20.760 What I'm really hoping for. What our entire team is 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:23.840 hoping for, and what we have sought for a long time, 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:30.000 is a very full investigation into the activities of this detective. 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:34.680 There needs to be an investigation by people who have 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:39.600 the power to follow all the leads, develop information, compel 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:43.840 the testimony of witnesses, and obtain other evidence. 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:46.480 Let me turn it to you for a second, because 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:51.400 we have not had somebody with your background and experience 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:56.920 on the show before, and I would venture to say 0:16:56.960 --> 0:16:59.720 that you had a very very difficult and dangerous job, 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:03.480 right I mean, investigating cops, particularly when you're investigating cops 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:06.120 who've got a lot to hide, makes you a very 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:10.720 unpopular person, I would think, so, looking back on it, 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:15.919 how did this manage to go on for so long 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:23.040 without somebody coming along and saying, you know, besides you, hey, hey, 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:24.560 we're not going to tolerate this. 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:27.920 They don't give a shit. At the time we were 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:31.760 doing these investigations, the police chief of Kansas City, Kansas, 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:35.080 a guy named Tom Daly. He had previously been indicted 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.680 by the Federal Strike Force for extorting money at a 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:42.080 whorehouses along the Kaw River in Kansas. He was doing 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:45.760 that allegedly when it was a captain, he was acquitted 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:49.160 because it was a real weak case. But after being 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:53.280 acquitted for extortion, the city wound up eventually making him 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:56.480 the chief. Is that the actions, you know, over responsible 0:17:56.880 --> 0:18:00.600 a city administration or a police department. So he had 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:02.920 the chief over here, Tom Dale, who had previously been 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:05.680 indicted by the Feds. He despised the federal government, he 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:10.080 hated the US Attorney's Office and the FBI, and he's 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:12.320 the chief. He was part of it. 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:17.280 So you have this guy Glubski who in that scenario 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:23.439 is operating basically with impunity, right because he knows his 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:29.840 chief doesn't give a shit, And with the chief having literally, 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:32.800 well for what it sounds like, gotten away with that 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:35.640 particular pattern of activity as well as I'm sure other 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:38.320 things that he was doing. The people underneath him are 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:40.919 probably thinking, hey, this is great, no one's going to 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:43.440 touch us, and they're right, and nobody did. So how 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:45.040 frustrated was that for you? 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:45.400 There? 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:49.280 You are really fighting an unwinnable war, right You're there 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:53.679 trying to protect the public from the police force with 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:56.680 a chief of police who not only doesn't give a fuck, 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:59.440 but doesn't want that he wants you. He probably wants 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:00.680 you to fuck out out of his hair, so we 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:02.679 could just you know, run the streets how he wants to. 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.600 Right when I started working over there, you had a person, 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:08.240 you know, some guy I knewed a lot of people 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:11.199 in the county jail, and they would say so and 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:14.159 so confronted me and stole my money, stole my drugs. 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:17.200 You go, what's the cops name? I don't know his name, 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:19.240 you know what's he looked like, Well, you know, he's 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:21.720 some white guy. Well you go to the police. The 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:26.399 police did not have photographs of their police officers, so 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.720 if a victim came in there alleging that so and 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:33.520 so officer robbed from me, extorted me, they didn't even 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:36.920 have photographs to show people so they could identify who 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:40.120 the police officer was. So good luck, you know, through 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:43.439 the US Attorney's office, through Julie Robinson, who was a 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:48.440 prosecutor at the time, we subpoenaed photographs of every sworn 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:52.200 officer in the Kansas City, Kansas Police Department. And there 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:54.720 was hell to pay for that. I was almost removed 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:57.000 from the investigation because of that. 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:00.359 You know, I think one of the problems is that 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:05.359 other law enforcement officers don't want to investigate law enforcement, 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:09.880 and as a general rule, I think they find it distasteful, 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:14.280 something they would rather avoid, and there is a tendency 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:18.720 to minimize misconduct. I found that really pretty shocking. 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:20.320 Not in light of everything else we're talking about, but 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:23.680 I could see how you would, and it really gets 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:29.200 easier and easier to see how these wrongful convictions are 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:32.760 so common. I mean, here, we have an interesting situation, right, 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:35.959 We're talking to Al who's in there with his badge, 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:40.040 working for the Federal Bureau of Investigation and basically being 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:44.720 told go fuck himself. So what chance does a seventeen 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:47.640 year old black kid from the poorer side of town, 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:53.399 What chance does he have against this blue wall, this 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:56.960 blue monster that was out to get him. He had 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:03.240 no chance. So now fast forward to twenty four years later, 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:08.800 Lamont sets in a prison studying reading. By all accounts, 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:13.639 a model prisoner, somebody who maintains a positive outlook in 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:16.879 spite of this what can only be described as the 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:21.080 worst fate that can befall an individual, to be incarcerated 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:23.480 with something he didn't do for the rest of your life. 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:25.960 But now we have hope, right, I mean, he has 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:28.119 hope thanks to you and the years of work that 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:30.480 you've done in this case, in al and other brave 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:33.760 people who have devoted their time and in some cases 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:36.840 probably even risk their own personal safety to try to 0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:39.760 get justice in this case. What does it look like now? 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:42.359 What happens next? Tell us what's going on. 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:48.200 We have a evidentiary hearing coming up in October, and 0:21:48.440 --> 0:21:53.680 we intend to present somewhere between forty and fifty witnesses 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:59.800 who provide very powerful testimony on various aspects of the case. 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:03.000 There was almost nothing really to support the conviction to 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:06.960 begin with, nothing other than the testimony of the two eyewitnesses, 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:11.960 and I believe that has been thoroughly shredded at this 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:18.879 point through recantations and admissions and the result of other investigation. 0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:23.640 And we are also focusing on the very troubling misconduct 0:22:23.680 --> 0:22:27.680 in the case. It is intimately connected to how the 0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:32.720 investigation was conducted, and we're going to bring all that 0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:37.239 out and show how we believe this went wrong, and 0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:39.880 we very much hope to be successful. 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:44.200 What's the data of the hearing October twelfth? October twelfth, 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:46.640 and is this in a federal court? 0:22:46.720 --> 0:22:49.399 We are in Windott County District Court, which is a 0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:54.200 state court. My client is litigating what's called a successive 0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:58.760 petition under SIXTYSH fifteen oh seven, and you have essentially 0:22:58.760 --> 0:23:01.640 a procedural barrier get over before you can get back 0:23:01.640 --> 0:23:05.040 into court. But we do have this evidentiary hearing schedule 0:23:05.119 --> 0:23:07.760 that we are very very excited about. One of the 0:23:07.760 --> 0:23:11.120 most compelling things about the case we haven't mentioned this yet, 0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:14.960 is that the families of both victims have always known 0:23:15.160 --> 0:23:20.200 my client is innocent and are very much squarely supporting 0:23:20.480 --> 0:23:23.479 the quest to free him. They know that they did 0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:26.960 not get justice. Their families did not get justice. 0:23:26.680 --> 0:23:30.000 And that's Cheryl. In your experience, it's not a common thing, right. 0:23:30.040 --> 0:23:33.240 I mean, most of the cases I've seen, even in 0:23:33.280 --> 0:23:36.640 the face of what could be overwhelming evidence to the contrary, 0:23:36.920 --> 0:23:39.560 the victims' family sometimes stick with you what they've been 0:23:39.560 --> 0:23:42.280 told all along because they just can't They can't even 0:23:42.320 --> 0:23:44.239 process the idea that they may have been lied to 0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:45.920 and that the wrong person may have been serving time 0:23:45.960 --> 0:23:48.480 for the murder of their loved one. So in this case, 0:23:48.520 --> 0:23:50.960 this is a very unusual scenario, isn't it. 0:23:50.960 --> 0:23:55.639 It is, And one of the eyewitnesses is related to 0:23:55.880 --> 0:24:00.800 both of the victims, and she her family in the 0:24:02.080 --> 0:24:04.440 family of the second victim, to whom she's a bit 0:24:04.480 --> 0:24:07.520 more distantly related, have always told me that they have 0:24:07.680 --> 0:24:12.040 known from the beginning that the authorities got the wrong man. 0:24:12.119 --> 0:24:15.800 They have always known this. They've made periodic efforts to 0:24:15.880 --> 0:24:19.080 correct this, to address this, to try and get some justice, 0:24:19.400 --> 0:24:20.879 all without success. 0:24:20.920 --> 0:24:25.760 And if there wasn't already enough to chew on, this 0:24:25.840 --> 0:24:30.120 is the part that really just sets me off his court, 0:24:30.160 --> 0:24:34.080 a pointed attorney. Gary Long was on supervised probation at 0:24:34.080 --> 0:24:37.439 the time of the trial for failing to diligently handle 0:24:37.480 --> 0:24:41.080 three prior cases. He was suspended from the bar a 0:24:41.119 --> 0:24:44.159 couple years later for failure to adequately hnder a separate 0:24:44.160 --> 0:24:46.600 criminal case. And he was this bar in nineteen ninety eight. 0:24:46.880 --> 0:24:49.639 How is it even possible that, in a life or 0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:53.879