1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: It was obviously an object lesson that many coaches used 2 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: to preach to their players about making good decisions because 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: all of those choices, all of those decisions can have 4 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 1: impacts that reverberate far beyond what you think of. 5 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 2: In the moment that taps got the NBA executive, a 6 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 2: former coach and a friend of Limbia's, he. 7 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:35,160 Speaker 3: Was gifted and had optimized his gifts as a basketball 8 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 3: player to realize the dream of being an NBA player, 9 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 3: and in a moment or moment of a bad choice 10 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 3: or decision around cocaine drug use, it costs him his life. 11 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 3: And that is a message that resonates not just because 12 00:00:54,840 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 3: it was drugs, but because life is fragile and sometimes 13 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 3: the choices we make can be fatal. And it's a 14 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 3: reminder for all of us that the choices we make, 15 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 3: the associations we have with others, we just have to 16 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 3: be mindful that if we're not careful, it can it 17 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 3: can sometimes end not just badly, but favor. 18 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 2: Made the Mark kel are former NBA player in college 19 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 2: basketball television. 20 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 4: Analysts when Bias was one of the best in college 21 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 4: basketball and he's projecting to be one of the best 22 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 4: ever play the game in the NBA, and he never 23 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 4: may had that chance because of the choices he made, 24 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 4: and for that reason alone, we need to keep history alive. 25 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 2: Bonnie Bernstein, a former University of Maryland gymnast and a 26 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 2: network sports casting. 27 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 5: So poor decision, and you know, you don't know what 28 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 5: led up to that decision, but it really does emphasize 29 00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 5: the fact that you got to think about what you're doing. 30 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 2: Dan Bonner, a college basketball television analyst. 31 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 6: What we need to do is help people to think 32 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 6: clearly about their decisions. And we also know that human 33 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 6: beings are not completely rational and that there are what 34 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 6: we call decision traps. We want to think about how 35 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 6: we can make better decisions. Well, what we would like 36 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,959 Speaker 6: to do is to have these skills and have them 37 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 6: be practiced to the level that they do come naturally. 38 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 2: Chris Spetzler, the executive director of the Decision Education Foundation. Now, 39 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 2: in this episode of len Bias The Mixed Legacy Epilogue, 40 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 2: Episode one, we will explain the tools you need to 41 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 2: help you make the right decision, focusing on two students 42 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 2: who faced critical decisions. Since the death of len Bias 43 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty six, many branches of blame have sprouted 44 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 2: from the fertile tree of speculation. It was a lefty 45 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 2: Griselle's fault for not watching his players more closely. Some 46 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 2: have said the University of Maryland should have better policies 47 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 2: in place to better gauge drug use on campus. Others 48 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 2: have said those close to Bias field they should have 49 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 2: more aggressively questioned him about things he had done in 50 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 2: his final months. All these points are certainly debatable, but 51 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 2: one set of facts is indisputable. 52 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 7: Left he didn't put the cocaine in Lenny's nose. He 53 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 7: didn't buy the cocaine for Lenny or any of that stuff. Lenny, 54 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 7: you know, was over the age of consent. He was 55 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 7: an adult, and he did that on his own accord. 56 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 2: That's JJ Bush. He started as a Maryland athletic trainer 57 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy two, and he continued in that role 58 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 2: at Maryland until twenty eleven. Athletic trainers are an insightful 59 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: bunch when it comes to athletes. They see and hear 60 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 2: things that most others do not. The wisdom of Bush 61 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 2: in the previous comment speaks volumes about who is to 62 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 2: blame for the death of Len Bias The death of 63 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 2: Bias comes down to this. He made a bad decision 64 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 2: to abuse drugs to the point where it killed him. 65 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 2: No one told him to do it. Lend's death underscores 66 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 2: the importance of making clear minded, values based decisions, especially 67 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 2: when it comes to considering actions that can have life 68 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 2: shaping consequences. With that in mind, we are continuing this 69 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 2: podcast series about the legacy of len Bias with what 70 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 2: we are calling a functional epilogue, episodes in the discussion 71 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 2: format that will help us learn about the importance of 72 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 2: making the right decisions. We will use the tragic story 73 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 2: of len Bias as a teaching tool to better understand 74 00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 2: the importance of making effective decisions. Will explain what it 75 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 2: takes to make not just a good or bad decision, 76 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,600 Speaker 2: but an effective decision to help us in that process. 77 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 2: We are working with the Decision Education Foundation. The DEF 78 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 2: teaches decision skills and helps people understand the importance of 79 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:23,280 Speaker 2: making the best possible decision. They are also a promotional 80 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 2: partner in this podcast series. We will discuss decision making 81 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 2: with several people. They include DEF Executive director Chris Spetzler. 82 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 2: Chris is a respected authority on the topic and as 83 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 2: a national leader in the movement of decision education. Chris 84 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 2: will be our point person for explaining the principles of 85 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 2: effective decision making. There is so much more to making 86 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 2: the right decision than simply telling people that you need 87 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 2: to make the right decision. Chris will help explain the 88 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 2: tools we need to use. Joining us in this first 89 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 2: of three episodes on decision making are Zach Reid and 90 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 2: Ben Kotoko. They are students who have benefited from decision 91 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 2: education and learning to make better decisions has played an 92 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 2: important role in their lives. In future episodes, three others 93 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 2: will discuss decisions they have made and how they arrived 94 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 2: at those decisions. They include Justin Gatlin, a former Olympic 95 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 2: and World champion in the one hundred meters. He later served 96 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 2: a four year suspension for a performance enhancing drug violation. 97 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 2: Justin later returned to a sprint career, winning Olympic silver 98 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 2: and at the age of thirty five, who was again 99 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,799 Speaker 2: a world champion. In that race, he beat the famed 100 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 2: Ussein Bauld. Also one of the top high school basketball 101 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 2: coaches in the country is Glenn Farrello of Paul the 102 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:01,799 Speaker 2: Sixth High School in Fairfax. Virginia teams have repeatedly finished 103 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 2: among the top twenty in the country over the last 104 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 2: two decades. Our final guest will be Travis Garrison. Travis 105 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 2: grew up in the same county as Len Bias, Prince 106 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 2: George's county. Like Len, he played basketball at Maryland. Travis 107 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 2: was a term from two thousand and two to two 108 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 2: thousand and six. He has overcome two assault convictions and 109 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 2: now is using his platform to help people make better 110 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 2: decisions with his program called Think First, Make the Right Choice. 111 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 2: Chris Spetzler joins us now. Chris first tell us about 112 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,679 Speaker 2: the Decision Education Foundation and its role in helping people 113 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 2: make the right decision. 114 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 6: Thanks Dave, So Yeah. I'm the executive director of the 115 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 6: Decision Education Foundation, and our mission is to empower young 116 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 6: people with effective decision skills that help them to make 117 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 6: better decisions and have better outcomes in life. And I've 118 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 6: got a couple of students that I've invited along this 119 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 6: session who are going to share how some of the 120 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 6: stuff that we teach has been important in their lives. 121 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 6: But in short, we're all making decisions throughout our life, 122 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 6: and our lives are very much built based on the 123 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 6: decisions that we make. You know, unfortunately with lend Bias, 124 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 6: he made a lot of good decisions in his life, 125 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 6: but what we know is that one bad decision really 126 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 6: made everything go in the wrong direction for not only him, 127 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 6: but for a lot of people around him and for 128 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 6: society in general. So if we can help people to 129 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 6: make better decisions, a single better decision can also be 130 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 6: life changing. And we don't always talk about things. You know, 131 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 6: don't do this, don't do that. What we want to 132 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 6: do is help people to understand how to make better 133 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 6: decisions so that they can make better decisions throughout their life. 134 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 2: Became aware of a def right after I wrote the 135 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 2: book about len Bias, The Boy Ready to Mix Legacy 136 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 2: of Len Bias, that came out in twenty eleven, and 137 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 2: that forms the basis of this podcast series. I was 138 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 2: out and selling the books at a lot of Basket of 139 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 2: youth basketball tournaments and other events, and often people would 140 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 2: come up to me and say, Hey, that's a great story. 141 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 2: I'm glad you wrote the book, but what are you 142 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 2: doing about it? I mean, it's a hard story, it's 143 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 2: a tough story, but where's the good that's coming out 144 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 2: of this? Then? I realized at that point that yes, 145 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 2: this story comes down to lend did make a bad decision, 146 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 2: and how can I talk to people about making better decisions? 147 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 2: And I discovered your foundation, Chris, Can you give us 148 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 2: an overview of the technical aspect of making the right decisions? 149 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 6: Yeah, So we know that just say no doesn't work. 150 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 6: What we need to do is help people to think 151 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 6: to about their decisions. And we also know that human 152 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 6: beings are not completely rational and that there are decision traps. 153 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:13,199 Speaker 6: We want to think about how we can make better decisions, 154 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 6: and one tool that we have in that sense is 155 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 6: something we call the decision chain. And it's a chain 156 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 6: because it's only as strong as its weakest link. And 157 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 6: the links of the decision chain are values. What it 158 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 6: is that you want in your decision, alternatives, what it 159 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 6: is that you can do, Information, what it is that 160 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 6: you can know, And because the future is uncertain, we 161 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 6: also have to be able to think about probabilities. And 162 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 6: that's where sound reasoning comes in, where we can identify 163 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 6: the alternative that gets us the most of what we 164 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 6: want our values, given what we can know the information. 165 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:58,559 Speaker 6: So those are four links in the chain, and one 166 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 6: other important link is commitment to follow through, because if 167 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:05,719 Speaker 6: you just make up your mind but you never do 168 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,079 Speaker 6: anything about it, that's not a quality decision. So I 169 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 6: think we all have personal experiences where we know we 170 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 6: didn't follow through. And the final one is the frame, 171 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 6: What is the decision that you're making. And I would 172 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 6: think that lend Bias when he made that choice to 173 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 6: use cocaine, was not aware that the frame included the 174 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:35,959 Speaker 6: possibility of death, and so he fell into a decision 175 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,079 Speaker 6: trap because his frame was too narrow. And if we 176 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 6: can help people to understand how to improve their framing 177 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 6: of a decision or strengthen their chain links the ones 178 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 6: that I just went through, just having that as a 179 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 6: checklist is something that can take us out of a 180 00:11:55,760 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 6: situation where we are being mindless, make us much more 181 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 6: mindful and able to go through a rational process, slowing 182 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 6: us down, keeping us from making big mistakes. What we 183 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:12,319 Speaker 6: would like to do is to have these skills and 184 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 6: have them be practiced to the level that they do 185 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 6: come naturally. 186 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 2: Chris, can you mention? Can you talk about who Zach 187 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 2: and Ben are and how they benefited from their experiences 188 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 2: with a decision education foundation? 189 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 6: Yeah, so Decision Education Foundation works with schools, and historically 190 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 6: we've also had classes that we've taught through Stanford pre 191 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 6: Collegiate Studies, So we had high school students that came 192 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 6: to Stanford and Ben took the Stanford course and Zach 193 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 6: was involved with a charter school up in Oregon where 194 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 6: DEF was a part of the curriculum. Zach overcame some 195 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 6: significant challenges and he'll tell you a little bit about those, 196 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 6: and then has really been great about creating opportunities for himself. 197 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 6: And he's an entrepreneur down in Los Angeles, and he'll 198 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 6: tell you a little bit about that. But of course 199 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 6: entrepreneurs have to know how to take appropriate risks and 200 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 6: risks and uncertainty. That's the kind of stuff that DEEF 201 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:25,559 Speaker 6: helps people to understand. And especially with the teenage brain 202 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:29,199 Speaker 6: being what it is, we know that the prefrontal cortex 203 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 6: of young people is still growing in and the hot 204 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 6: center of decision emotional decision making is the amygdala, and 205 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 6: we got to be able to help them to navigate 206 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 6: a difficult time until their rational decision making becomes stronger. 207 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 2: Let's start with Ben. Then you talked about entrepreneurship. Ben, 208 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 2: can you tell us what decision you were facing. 209 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 8: The most recent and probably the kind of core decision 210 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 8: I made was deciding to leave post secondary university before 211 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 8: I finished graduating to actually pursue the startup venture that 212 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 8: I'm working on now. I had already dabbled in entrepreneurship 213 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:20,239 Speaker 8: and kind of had been exposed to know what entrepreneurship 214 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 8: was and how it was a tool to be able 215 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 8: to solve problems, and going into the University of Oregon 216 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 8: my freshman year, made the decision, you know, coming into school, 217 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 8: if I have the opportunity to go after building a company, 218 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 8: That's what I'm going to do. Whether that happens while 219 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 8: I'm in school or after the fact, that was my 220 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 8: whole focus. So going into my junior year of college, 221 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 8: I had been working on a project with my brother 222 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 8: and essentially the platform we were working on was helping brands, 223 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 8: small boutiques, retailers get visibility when it comes to building 224 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 8: their brands. And with that that kind of gave me 225 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 8: a a foundation to be like, Okay, this is something 226 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 8: that I feel passionate about and I want to move 227 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 8: forward with and kind of, you know, put more effort 228 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 8: into it. Because when you're juggling school and trying to 229 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 8: build a startup, it's you know, you have to choose 230 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 8: one or the either, because you can either end up, 231 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 8: you know, chasing two rabbits and catching either. So that 232 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 8: was the decision that I had to make, was you know, 233 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 8: am I going to take the time to finish out 234 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 8: the senior year of my college experience or am I 235 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 8: gonna step away from school and put one hundred percent 236 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 8: of my focus into this startup. And the reason that 237 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,359 Speaker 8: decision was big is because in the world of you know, startups, 238 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 8: and specifically our our platform being a tech platform, it's 239 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 8: all about speed's market. So within that decision, you know, 240 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 8: the frame obviously was like, okay, am I going to 241 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 8: step away or am I going to continue school? But 242 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 8: I really had to assess my own values in terms 243 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 8: of who I am and where I wanted to be, 244 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 8: and also think about the alternatives whether or not, you know, 245 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 8: education could be something I could pursue further down the line, 246 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 8: or if this opportunity would be something I could pursue 247 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 8: further down the line. So with all those things, in 248 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 8: having that framework of thinking about how I should think 249 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 8: about making this decision, they gave me clarity as to 250 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 8: know bet on myself and kind of pursue my own 251 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 8: sense of purpose in striving to build the startup that 252 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 8: I'm working on today. 253 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 2: Chris, as you remember the process with Ben, what areas 254 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 2: did you focus on within the decision chain or did 255 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 2: you use all of them? Was one more important than 256 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 2: the other in his decision process? 257 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 6: Well. One of the things that is impressive about Ben's 258 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 6: story is that while he was at u Ofo, he 259 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 6: got this startup going with his brother, and they had 260 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 6: it in an accelerator and they were already having success 261 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 6: before he made the decision to switch. So in addition 262 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 6: to being a student and also working to get through school, 263 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:17,639 Speaker 6: he on the side started up this business concept and 264 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 6: only made the decision to jump once it started to 265 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 6: prove out. So he had limited the uncertainty and he 266 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 6: didn't just jump right at the beginning. He got started 267 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 6: and made sure that there was progress. 268 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 8: And that's really part of why making that decision became critical, 269 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 8: because I was doing so many different things and seeing 270 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 8: the potential in what we were trying to build, and 271 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 8: also juggling responsibilities and commitments, especially with school. So with 272 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 8: those two things, the framework kind of allowed me to 273 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:07,120 Speaker 8: balance who I was my values and also really gave 274 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 8: me a way of understanding how to parse through the 275 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 8: options that I did have in terms of aligning what 276 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 8: I was committed to, and then of course the chain 277 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,159 Speaker 8: of commitment and follow through. It's a tough decision to 278 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 8: say I'm going to leave school. You know, it doesn't 279 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 8: make your parents it's extremely happy. You know, some professors 280 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 8: are against it, others are you know, supportive of it. 281 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:36,640 Speaker 8: But you kind of have to take in all those 282 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 8: perspectives and then decide for yourself what you're going to 283 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 8: follow through on. 284 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 2: You mentioned your frame, and you mentioned your values. How 285 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 2: did you define your frame within this decision and what 286 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 2: values were you focusing on in this decision? 287 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 8: So I'd say the frame was really I've gotten this 288 00:18:56,119 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 8: far in college, but I'm seeing success how happening within 289 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:05,400 Speaker 8: the startup we're building. And you're a human and you're 290 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 8: limited in terms of how many hours in the day 291 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 8: and energy you have to commit to anything, and if 292 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 8: you split that too far, then neither of the things 293 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 8: that you're splitting your time out against really ends up 294 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,199 Speaker 8: you know, making progress. So that was the frame, you know, 295 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 8: how do I optimize my time in the way that's 296 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 8: going to be the most meaningful meet or meaningful for 297 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:34,880 Speaker 8: me moving forward. And really my values have always been 298 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 8: centered around one helping people and then two a natural 299 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 8: kind of inclination towards entrepreneurship. So my intention going into 300 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 8: college the first weekend that I ended up on campus 301 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 8: in my dorm, I sat in my room that whole 302 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 8: weekend and decided, you know, why was I in school? 303 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 8: And the reason I set out for myself was to 304 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 8: develop a skill set around, you know, communication that would 305 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:11,679 Speaker 8: be able to help me in any field that I 306 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 8: chose to do, whether it was building my own company 307 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 8: or going into an industry post college. And then also 308 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 8: making connections, but within those two things, gearing them towards 309 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 8: you know, the direction of eventually starting my own company, 310 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 8: because that's something that I always wanted to do given 311 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 8: my history, my background, and who I am. So those 312 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 8: two things, i'd say kind of encapsulate the frame and 313 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 8: the values. 314 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:52,439 Speaker 2: Chris, can you explain what your role and decision Education 315 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 2: Foundation's role was with these two young men? Where do 316 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 2: you step in? 317 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 6: Well, so, in both cases, the training that Zach and 318 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 6: Ben had was several years prior to these particular situations 319 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 6: and I think we gave them a platform and a 320 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 6: foundation to be clear about their decisions, and it became 321 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 6: something that became more of an unconscious habit. And so 322 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:32,439 Speaker 6: both Ben and Zach are individuals that stood out in 323 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 6: those classes and kept in touch. 324 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 2: Zach, tell us about that program you involved with where 325 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 2: you were introduced to decision making. 326 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 9: I was a junior in high school when I met 327 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 9: Chris and the program, and I believe it was it 328 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 9: was either a world studies class or a governormics class. 329 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:54,120 Speaker 9: And I came to recognize I had been diagnosed as 330 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 9: being asked, as having asked for her syndrome when I 331 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 9: was a young kid. So I'd spent a long time 332 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 9: in therapy as a kid, figuring things out, figuring out 333 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 9: how to handle and make better decisions, just under different auspices, 334 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 9: as it were, with with thinking about cognitive distortions and 335 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 9: what and what do I value? What kind of friends 336 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 9: do I want to have at such a young age. 337 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 9: Everything it was under this It was in the same 338 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 9: vein as how to make a good decision, how to 339 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 9: how to do the right things that will benefit you 340 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 9: and make you happy without engaging in these these fallacious 341 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 9: thoughts that will lead you astray. 342 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 2: Tell us now about that decision. What what decision did you. 343 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 9: Face Originally when when Chris and I first met, my 344 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 9: plan was to go to medical school. A lot of 345 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,920 Speaker 9: things happened. Then my father passed away at a very 346 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 9: young age, and I met Ben and Chris at the 347 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 9: at the Stanford at the Stanford campus when the with 348 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 9: the pre collegiate institutes, and while while I was there 349 00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 9: that that provided a nice break after losing my father, 350 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 9: But when I came back to try and be there 351 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 9: for my mother and sister and everything, it quickly dawned 352 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 9: on me that medical school is a large investment of time. 353 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 9: There has to be another way to help people. Was 354 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 9: lucky enough to shadow with a group of surgeons when 355 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,400 Speaker 9: I was seventeen, but it was just it was such 356 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 9: a time investment, and after losing my dad at such 357 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,360 Speaker 9: a young age, I really wanted to try and minimize 358 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:33,919 Speaker 9: the amount of time that I was in school so 359 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 9: I could be there be around to see the life 360 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 9: events of my mother and sister and the rest of 361 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 9: my family. So that led me down to being to 362 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 9: explore the different alternatives in health care for what I 363 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 9: could be and I Eventually, Eventually, after a few years, 364 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 9: I settled on physician's assistant. The schooling is less, is 365 00:23:55,080 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 9: slightly less arduous, responsibilities are remarkably similar. I can still 366 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 9: help people and I don't break myself doing. 367 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 2: It, Zach, as you were going through the process, and 368 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 2: we've talked about the decision chain before, was there any 369 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 2: link in that chain that you thought as you were 370 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 2: going through the process with each of those links that 371 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 2: was most helpful. The information, the sound reasoning, the alternatives, 372 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 2: the frame and the commitment and etc. 373 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 9: I think the creative alternatives and everything, because there's such 374 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 9: a wide breadth in the field of medicine with what 375 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 9: one can do. And one of my human anatomy classes 376 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 9: in college, the professor himself at the end of the 377 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 9: term start talking about like, it's not the end of 378 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 9: the world if you don't get the A plus you 379 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 9: want in this class. It really isn't. There are plenty 380 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 9: of other things that you can do, and he planted 381 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:53,120 Speaker 9: those out. He created alternatives were the most important thing 382 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 9: for narrowing all of this down. 383 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 2: Ben and Zach, what were the more challenging aspects of 384 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 2: the decision making process? Was it actually a process that 385 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 2: you felt very natural with let's go with Ben first. 386 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 8: Yeah, so I was gonna say I think the process 387 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:17,640 Speaker 8: felt natural, But the kind of challenge probably was mostly 388 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 8: around the sound reasoning in the sense that, you know, 389 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 8: making the decision to leave school to focus on on 390 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 8: the startup. You know, I had to gauge a lot 391 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 8: of different people's perspectives. You No, it wasn't just a 392 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 8: decision where I was the only stakeholder in there. So 393 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 8: there's my parents, there's you know, my professors, there's friends, 394 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 8: there's you know, you know, so many people who've invested 395 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 8: in me to get to that point. You know, whatever 396 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 8: perspectives that I did get, I weighed them into the 397 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 8: alternatives and kind of you know, ways that I could 398 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 8: approach the decision. But ultimately, in that process, I realized 399 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 8: that that, you know, for yourself, you can't not every 400 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 8: decision you make is going to make everyone happy. So 401 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 8: you need to kind of balance your decision with you know, 402 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 8: optimizing it to have the best effect on the people 403 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 8: around you or the other stakeholders in that decision, but 404 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 8: then also you have to optimize that for your own 405 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,719 Speaker 8: values and what you care about most, and kind of 406 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 8: getting to a place of you know, clarity and concrete, 407 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,199 Speaker 8: definitive confidence and this is what I'm going to do 408 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 8: and I'm going to follow through on that. 409 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 2: So Chris Ben mentioned something about reasoning and there's the 410 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 2: head heart concept about making decisions. Can you talk a 411 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 2: little bit about that and how that plays a lot 412 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 2: into the chain? What are the links in the chain 413 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 2: that that the head heart most applies to. 414 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 6: Well, So we want a good decision to both make sense, 415 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 6: that's the sound reasoning, and feel right, and that's typically 416 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 6: the heart and the emotions. And sometimes our emotions and 417 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 6: our passions can run away with us and we need 418 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,679 Speaker 6: to balance the head. And sometimes we are in a 419 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 6: situation where we're convinced that we know what is right 420 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 6: and we're going to do it no matter what. And 421 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 6: in fact, somebody that's sitting next to us can say, yeah, 422 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 6: I understand that you believe that you are logically reasoning, 423 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 6: but you may be missing out on the emotional impact 424 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 6: of others who are around you. Let me clue you 425 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,719 Speaker 6: in on some of the heart aspects that you're missing. 426 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 6: So balancing head and heart. Some people are naturally leading 427 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 6: in their decisions with the head, and others are naturally 428 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 6: leading in the heart. And what we want to do 429 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 6: is we want to meet the decision where it needs 430 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 6: to be met. And if we're someone who's a heart 431 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 6: centered person and we're facing a financial decision, it's probably 432 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 6: time to reach out and get some professional help. And 433 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 6: if you're a logic person and you're dealing with a 434 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 6: relationship issue, maybe you need to reach out and get 435 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 6: help there as well. 436 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,640 Speaker 2: Can you qualify the difference between the two? Is one 437 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:21,360 Speaker 2: more important than the other the head of the heart 438 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 2: and it's got to be right in the middle. 439 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 6: Well, each decision has its own natural balance, and we 440 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 6: want to meet it where it is. So there's any 441 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 6: specific decision has its own correct balance, and that's where 442 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 6: we need to kind of work on it until we 443 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,719 Speaker 6: have the clarity that Ben talked about. You know, if 444 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 6: if we have a balance of head and heart, if 445 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 6: we've got strength in all of the elements of the 446 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 6: links in the chain, then we can be confident in 447 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 6: moving forward recognizing that there is uncertainty and we could 448 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 6: have a bad outcome. But if we made a good 449 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 6: decision and have a good out a bad outcome, that 450 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 6: just means that we need to continue making that good 451 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 6: decision and until the probability stack up in our favor. 452 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 2: So that balance of head heart really is relative to 453 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 2: the individual I would imagine right the other. 454 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 6: Not necessarily or so much the individual, but on the 455 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 6: individual decision. So some decisions are much more logic head 456 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 6: decisions and others are much more heart value focused decisions 457 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 6: and relationships. And so there's no one size fits all. 458 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 6: It has to do with what's the decision that you're facing, 459 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 6: and we need to test and make sure that it 460 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 6: makes sense on the logic and the reason and it 461 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 6: also feels right in the emotion and the values. 462 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 2: You talk about. I think the hip the hip tool 463 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 2: to determine how important something is. Chris, can you explain 464 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 2: what hip means in relation to decision fitness? 465 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 6: Yeah, So the hip check is a way of thinking 466 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 6: about the size of a decision. So it is H 467 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 6: is how will things change? I is impact, so if 468 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 6: it's a small impact or a bigger impact, and then 469 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 6: the final one is P is permanent. So if something 470 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 6: is permanent, then it's not reversible and that makes it 471 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 6: a bigger decision. If it's a decision that we can 472 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 6: reverse and pay some sort of a cost to get 473 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 6: out of then that's a smaller decision. But you know, 474 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 6: if we think about len Bias, he made a decision 475 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 6: and had a permanent and terribly negative outcome. And I'm 476 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 6: not sure that he thought about how big of a 477 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 6: decision it could have been at the time. 478 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,959 Speaker 2: And within the context of lembias, also what had impact 479 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 2: on many others and how well things changed. It changed 480 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 2: a lot, So he certainly he wasn't thinking about that. 481 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 2: Zach tell us, now, what we're more significant a challenge 482 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 2: than the others within the shape, I. 483 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 9: Would say sound reasoning and potentially commitment to follow through 484 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 9: and figuring out the reasoning behind why I wanted to 485 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 9: choose positions took a lot of time to narrow down, 486 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 9: and then the commitment to follow through. Applications to pa 487 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 9: MD nursing schools, they're all very strenuous and rigorous. The 488 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 9: m Cataloan I believe it's like a seven and a 489 00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 9: half hour test. The gre is six. There's just there's 490 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 9: a lot. There's a lot to do when it comes 491 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 9: to applications. But that's just like pretty much everything, especially 492 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 9: when you're transitioning from high school to college. If you're 493 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 9: transitioning to a four year school out of the gate. 494 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 9: I know UVO and me wanted me to write an essay, 495 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 9: and that was shortly after I lost my dad. So 496 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 9: I managed, I managed to get through it, but ultimately 497 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 9: I ended up attending an alternative college. 498 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 2: It's not what feels good but feels right, Chris. But again, 499 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 2: you're not gonna know it's gonna be a good or 500 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 2: bad decision until until you work through it. But it's 501 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 2: got to feel right, and that's a big difference, correct, Chris. 502 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 6: Oh, sure. So people often will convince themselves that that 503 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 6: they feel good about a decision, but their logic is faulty, 504 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 6: and we want to make sure that we can slow 505 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 6: them down enough that they can go through the steps, 506 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,720 Speaker 6: maybe the links of the chain, and think through whether 507 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:07,480 Speaker 6: or not. For example, they have creative alternatives that you know, 508 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 6: they don't have to do something. It's not an either 509 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 6: or situation. There are often many other alternatives involved, Zach. 510 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 2: Did you find when you were you consider the commitment 511 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 2: part of this decision that you had to sort of 512 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 2: adjust your levels of commitment or your goals as far 513 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 2: as the commitment because you because of everything that was 514 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 2: happening in your life, maybe the time frame you're working in, 515 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 2: the frame now, the scope and how well it's going 516 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 2: to take. Yeah, I absolutely did. 517 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,959 Speaker 9: Originally I was going to exit university right out by 518 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 9: of the gate and then head right towards the A school. 519 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 9: I'm obviously not at p A school right now, but 520 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 9: I decided. I decided while graduating last year, during during lockdowns, 521 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 9: that I wanted to break and I wanted to work 522 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 9: for a little while and get a breather. It had 523 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 9: been a very taxing sprint is I guess the best 524 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 9: way to put it for the last the last four years, 525 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 9: and so I sent it. So I don't have any 526 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 9: plans right now. I'm just working at a group of 527 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:24,239 Speaker 9: hospitals here in the area and getting experience that way, 528 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 9: and sooner and later I will likely go back to 529 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 9: school and start taking some more classes and then probably apply. 530 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,919 Speaker 9: But I'm definitely not jumping to go anytime soon. 531 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 2: As I understand the decision making process and the front 532 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 2: and the decision chain. Part of the frame is you 533 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 2: want to see where you are five ten years from now. 534 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:50,400 Speaker 6: Well, it all depends on what you're trying to achieve. 535 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 6: I would think that you definitely want to be considering 536 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,920 Speaker 6: five ten years out, what maybe not what you'll be doing, 537 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 6: but what kind of skills that you want to have, 538 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:07,360 Speaker 6: because you know, life happens and there's uncertainly and sometimes 539 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 6: you need to be able to change your course. But 540 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 6: if you've got the right skills in place and the 541 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 6: right accreditations, you can you can move with it. Up 542 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:21,240 Speaker 6: next on Lembai some mixed legacy. 543 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,360 Speaker 2: And one person very familiar with those types of decisions 544 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,280 Speaker 2: is Glenn Farrello, head coach of the boys basketball team 545 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 2: at Paul the Sixth High School in Fairfax, Virginia. 546 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:33,360 Speaker 10: And I think the most important part of that decision 547 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 10: making is you want to try to find a way 548 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 10: to not just talk out at them. 549 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 4: You want to talk to you. 550 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 10: I give them some information that they can actually think 551 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 10: about instead of being another adult telling them what to 552 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 10: do or you know, the pitfalls of life. 553 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 6: I would think that this is the sort of training 554 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 6: that you want to work with the players off the court, 555 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 6: so that then when they're in that situation, they have 556 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,240 Speaker 6: something that they can refer back to that they can 557 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:02,240 Speaker 6: use in that moment. 558 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 10: May able to get them to think clearly of what 559 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,400 Speaker 10: their purpose is and their enthusiasm for what they're doing. 560 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 10: Then they're much more accepting of some of the decision 561 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:15,279 Speaker 10: making decision decisions that they have to make on the board. 562 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 2: For our next segment, we will talk with a former 563 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,840 Speaker 2: University of Maryland basketball player who has overcome some profound 564 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 2: personal challenges and now promotes the importance of making the 565 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 2: right decisions. Garrison was two years old when Unbiased died. 566 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 2: Like Len, he became a top high school player and 567 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 2: chose to play US college ball at the University of Maryland. 568 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 5: It was one particular time when I did get in trouble. 569 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:42,759 Speaker 5: I coach told us that we weren't allowed at the 570 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 5: bars to hang out. I used to, you know, drink 571 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 5: a lot in my room and then I'll go hang out. 572 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,279 Speaker 5: In this particular time, you know, I was going through 573 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,360 Speaker 5: stuff mentally, you know, coming off of injury. 574 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 2: So I just wanted to go hang out, and I 575 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:56,720 Speaker 2: kind of went down. 576 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 6: To the bars. And decision fitness is when you are centered. 577 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 6: Your decision state is as good as it can be 578 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,719 Speaker 6: in terms of processing information, in terms of making reasoned judgments, 579 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,280 Speaker 6: in terms of being clear on what your values are. 580 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,840 Speaker 6: And there are plenty of situations where we know that 581 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 6: that has been impaired. 582 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,879 Speaker 5: Definitely wasn't so minded. I would have handled the things 583 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 5: of that differently, So that definitely did a factor. But 584 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 5: I can't used as excuse me. 585 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 2: This is Daven Grady, President of god Grady Media and 586 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 2: executive producer of this podcast series. It is with profound 587 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 2: sadness that I inform you about a tragedy involving a 588 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 2: god Grading Media intern. Nzol Alvaranga passed away in early 589 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 2: June following an accident. He collided with a van while 590 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 2: riding his bicycle near his home in the Pesda, Maryland. 591 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,920 Speaker 2: Enzo was a rising sophomore at the University of Maryland 592 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,960 Speaker 2: majoring in journalism. His work for US focused on the 593 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 2: thirty four plus one campaign since the late spring of 594 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one. As a volunteer, he helped edit video 595 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 2: and audio clips for our Lend Bias Legacy podcast production. 596 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 2: He also edited the audio and video clips for our 597 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 2: timeline promotion supporting the podcast. His work was exemplary. We 598 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 2: had hoped to help Enso earn a credit internship this summer, 599 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,799 Speaker 2: but we were unable to do so. Typically he said 600 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 2: he wanted to help anyway. We talked Today before he 601 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:48,799 Speaker 2: died about his role helping promote the podcast series. Interestingly, 602 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,200 Speaker 2: due to COVID, I never personally met Enzo, but we 603 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,200 Speaker 2: had lots of zoom and phone calls. He was a 604 00:38:55,239 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 2: wonderful young man, gentle, respectful, deferential, responsible and diligent in 605 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:06,319 Speaker 2: his work. I met his mother and father at his 606 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:10,839 Speaker 2: funeral service. When I told Enzo's father about his work 607 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 2: on the La Bias project, a smile came to his face. 608 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 2: He was very proud of what he did, he said, 609 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:31,720 Speaker 2: as was everyone at Go Grady Media. 610 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 5: This podcast series is based on the book Born Ready, 611 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,120 Speaker 5: The Mixed Legacy of Lembi's, published by Go Grady Media. 612 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 8: The series is produced by Go Graded Media in partnership 613 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:44,320 Speaker 8: with Octagon Entertainment. 614 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 6: This segment was produced by Dave Ungrady and Don Marcus. 615 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,400 Speaker 8: It was written by Dave ung Grady and edited by 616 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 8: Don Marcus. The narrator was Dave Ungrady, with additional narration 617 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:58,280 Speaker 8: by Jamal Williams. Technical production was provided by Octagon Entertainment. 618 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 6: Production assistants was produced by Kevin mcnelty, Tino Quagliata, Lauren Ross, Georgia. 619 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:09,320 Speaker 8: Brown, Casey Fair, Jamal williams Kelsey Mannix and Enzo al Varna. 620 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,560 Speaker 6: Matt Deherst is providing the social media assistance special thanks 621 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:17,040 Speaker 6: to the University of Maryland and American University for providing inserts. 622 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,840 Speaker 8: The Decision Education Foundation is a content and promotional partner 623 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,720 Speaker 8: of this podcast series. For more information, go to gogradymedia 624 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 8: dot com. This has been a production of go grading 625 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 8: Media and the Eighth Side Network